Late Round DL
Posted: April 25th, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 440 Comments »Thank god the Eagles moved back to the 4-3. I forgot just how much fun it is to fall in love with athletic, 1-gap D-linemen.
I watched a player on Sunday night that I’d never heard of…Trevon Coley from Florida Atlantic.
Forget Megan Fox, I’m now in love with Trevon Coley.
Okay, that might be stretching things a bit, but this video got me so excited I sat here talking to myself for a good half hour. This kid’s agility is insane. Look at his Pro Day numbers:
PRO DAY RESULTS
40-yard dash: 4.93 seconds
Vertical: 29 1/2 inches
Broad jump: 8 feet, 9 inches
Short shuttle: 4.43 seconds
3-cone: 7.02 seconds
Bench: 22 reps of 225 pounds
That 3-cone time is shockingly good for a 304-pound DT. Only 11 CBs at the Combine were better than that.
Coley will go in rounds 5-7. He isn’t the most stout run defender. He won’t fit all systems. But man I think he would be fun to watch play in an attacking system…just like the Eagles run.
*****
Ever heard of Justin Zimmer?
I didn’t think so. He is a DL from Ferris State, a small school in Michigan. Zimmer led the team in tackles. He also had 26 TFLs (13 sacks). Check out his Pro Day:
Ferris State defensive tackle Justin Zimmer — 6-2 5/8, 302 — ran the 40 in 4.88 and 4.85 seconds. He had a 32-inch vertical and 9-foot-9 broad jump. He did the short shuttle in 4.4 seconds and the three-cone drill in 7.01 seconds. Zimmer put the bar up an astonishing 44 times on the bench press (the top number at this year’s combine was 34, posted by Arizona State’s Christian Westerman). Zimmer had a great workout at the pro day, and could be a free-agent possibility for a team following the draft.
Are you kidding me? 44 reps and fast and agile?
I’m not going to link to his game tape. He’s so dominant that it is really hard to get much out of the tape. He played mostly DE in college. Zimmer has a DT build that Jim Schwartz would be interested in. And the fact he can also play DE makes him even more interesting.
He’s likely to go in the 6th or 7th.
*****
As far as edge rushers, Tyrone Holmes from Montana is my favorite guy. He’ll go in the 5 to 7 area.
James Cowser is interesting. Matt Judon is a small school guy that will probably go in the mid-rounds, but could slide a bit.
There are some really interesting DL for the Eagles to get, even without the 3rd/4th round picks they gave up. And there will be some good UDFAs as well.
I can’t wait to see who the team adds.
_
What a rollercoaster:
https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/724617954986459136
And it has begun.
Get it done Howie.
It should not have been hard to see this coming. I’ve been a defender of Howie’s but he completely screwed the pooch on this one.
I don’t blame Howie for not expecting this. Sam is supposed to be a professional. He need only look as far as Drew Brees for an appropriate guide. This gives some insight into the way his brain works, and sort of gives an inclination as to why he hasn’t been as good as he was billed to be.
This sucks on so many levels.
1. We need him this year.
2. This immediately removes leverage in trade talks that we are all sure Howie was already working on.
3. There is a good chance that this makes him less appealing to other teams.
Expecting it is different than planning an out for the organization if it arises and being able to execute that plan effectively.
Roseman definitely should have expected it as he knows Bradford is a prideful guy, was promised certain things to re-sign here and has never been in a situation where a legit replacement is on the roster and, regardless of what Bradford does, will be replacing him soon.
Planning the out if this situation arises and then executing it are much harder, but again if Roseman knew the plan was to draft the future QB this year, that should have been part of the negotiations with Bradford and there should have been an out in the contract. If Bradford does not accept the out being included, then wave him bye bye and sign Daniel as planned.
The issue here is the Eagles wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted to have every chance to win this year while also starting the transition to the future. I’m not surprised Bradford does not want to be a placeholder – his career is short and he wants a chance to be with an organization for the long term; an organization who truly wants him and will build around him.
I don’t understand the logic. Not just you, everyone who is sharing your viewpoint (the majority of the board). I guess I’ll just leave it alone, my words seem to be wasted.
Not at all, Tumtum. Just a difference of opinion.
The logic is pretty simple IMO – if I tell you A will happen to get you to stay, but then do B instead which negates A, you’re likely going to be pissed. You were expecting A to happen and A cannot happen at all now because of B.
I guess that is the big difference in the line of thinking. I feel like Sam pretty much had two options. Take the tag or take the deal he got. Also don’t get how the draft pick takes him out of the running for the Franchise QB spot. If he plays lights-out for 2 years, he is probably going to continue to be the guy.
There is no way they are going to invest what they have and will in Wentz and then not play him. That would be total idiocy and a waste of resources. He may sit for one year, but no more than that IMO. Bradford will not have the chance to play lights out for 2 years and even if he plays lights out for 1, they will still go with Wentz.
To me all of these combined resources. CD money, Sam money, picks/rookie contract, have all been allocated at securing the QB position long term. If that were to in some crazy wind up being Chase Daniel, who cares? Will anyone think the money and picks were idiotic to give up if we win a championship?
Sure the hope is that the rookie is the guy, and that is the most probably scenario. I always look at how Seattle found their QB. They wasted some coin, and I think they even wasted resources in a trade. As long as they found the guy it didn’t matter who it was.
Giving up on a (if established) elite QB would be lunacy in my mind. SD did it, but there were lots of factors at play (as would be in this scenario). They had 2 years of evaluation on Rivers, and Brees had what at the time was thought could be a career ending injury. Remember the Miami doctors wouldn’t give Brees their stamp of approval.
I’ll reiterate in the style of our guy GE99 here: All these moves have been in an attempt to find a franchise guy. So what if it isn’t the guy you thought it would be? If Kirk Cousins wins 3 more Superbowls for the Redskins, no one will ever care that he was simply the insurance policy to the slender RG3.
QB by any means necessary.
Not sure I agree with you. I was holding out hope that Sam would be decent, but it’s not really realistic. Even if he was, this is nothing new. This is a Brees/Rivers situation.
I understand why Sam is angry. But I also understand why Howie did what he did. To say he “screwed the pooch” is kind of ridiculous.
Nail on the head with Bree/Rivers. What did Brees do? Look at himself and realize that he put himself in that situation and became hyper focused at being the best he could be. What is Sam doing? Pouting and refusing to play with the other kids.
I don’t think Brees/Rivers is a very good analog, actually. Brees had already been under contract in San Diego for several seasons. Bradford was a free agent just this past offseason and presumably would have gone elsewhere if he knew management definitely didn’t consider him a long term solution. It’s very likely the only reason he resigned is because Howie told him he’d have a chance to be the franchise QB if he proved himself on the field and now Howie has sort of said “just kidding, we never considered you anything more than a stopgap” with this trade. Bradford’s pique may not exhibit consummate professionalism, but it is pretty understandable and a lot of players would probably have his reaction to this situation. Failing to anticipate that really is a failure on Roseman’s part.
I guess the part I disagree with you is on the fact that given the contract, Bradford should have known he wasn’t the unquestioned franchose QB. It’s clear the FO is hesitant about Bradford simply from the contract structure. A good agent and frankly, an educated fan can make that judgement fairly easily. If Bradford didn’t want to risk having to face competition, he should have decided not to resign here. The Eagles owe him nothing in terms of assurances because he hasn’t earned them at any point in his career. Bradford went after the money, and now is complaining about it. I don’t think he has any leverage or justification for his whining right now.
We’re not privy to what went on in the contract talks between Bradford and the Eagles. As I said below, I find it implausible that he would’ve resigned without at least a promise that he’d have a chance to prove himself worthy of being “the guy”, and I can understand how he’d feel screwed over if he got such a promise only for Howie to then go after Wentz. I don’t think Bradford’s a franchise QB but he’s not Doug Pederson either – he’s a competent starting QB. He can do better than keeping the seat warm for a rookie and I expect if he’d been told there was a good chance that’s what he’d be doing he would’ve gone elsewhere as a free agent. He would have had offers.
The point is if Roseman told Bradford he would be given a legit shot to earn the long term QB job here and that was a deciding factor in Sam re-signing here, then one can understand how now Sam feels like that was a sham.
As with xeynon, agree to disagree. First of all, nothing in the NFL is guaranteed in terms of job security for any player. It’s been that way ever since I started watching football, and will continue to be that way moving forward. Claiming Roseman told Bradford he would have “a legitimate shot to earn the long term QB job here” is equivalent to me of hearing, “but you pinky swore.” Bradford needs to grow up, man up, and play his best. Second of all, he STILL has an opportunity to earn the long term job. He has been point blank, declared the starter this season. Going into camp and presumably into the season, he will start. If he plays at a franchise level, the Eagles aren’t going to just deal him, no matter how many draft picks they put into Wentz. In fact, the Eagles have the benefit of having an entire second year to judge Bradford. If he plays at a level that you can label Bradford as even a potential franchise QB, they will let Wentz sit a second year while Bradford continues as the starter. After two years, they will have a very good ability to make the decision on whether Bradford is their franchise QB. They will also have a strong idea of whether or not Wentz can compete with Bradford. If Bradford is clearly the better QB (which is what you would want your franchise QB to be), then they aren’t just letting Bradford walk, regardless of the resources used on Wentz.
What’s clear is this. Bradford is whining because he doesn’t believe in his own abilities enough to be able to make that clear distinction. And frankly, no one trusts Bradford to be able to accomplish that because when you look at his history, he simply hasn’t been a franchise QB. Period. Bradford is just whining because he wants to be treated like a franchise QB before he has actually earned that distinction. If you are not a franchise QB, you will be constantly challenged by FAs and rookies and the team FO doing everything they can to find that franchise QB.
I simply do not see any way that Howie is going back on any promise he provided Bradford or that any promise Bradford has earned. This is just Bradford going back on his own promise of committing to a contract he signed to play for the Eagles. A contract that clearly indicates that he has yet to prove himself as a franchise QB.
Seriously? You do not understand how, if Roseman told Bradford he would be given a fair chance to earn the long term starting job here and then traded up to #2 to supposedly grab their future franchise QB (Wentz), Bradford will feel misled or betrayed?
Bradford’s goal for this season was to find the best opportunity for him to earn a long term starting job so he could finally get settled into one system with one coaching staff and be able to make progress as a QB. His choice was the Eagles since they had a good team already that he was familiar with, a new coaching staff he could grow with and a QB braintrust in Pederson, Reich and DeFilippo that would is attractive.
One could logically assume part of the negotiations with Roseman & Co. to get Bradford to re-sign the contract the Eagles wanted – limited years at lower than usual QB money – would be the legit opportunity to earn the long term starting gig here which is what Bradford wanted and thus he was willing to compromise on the other aspects to get that chance.
Now that the Eagles have traded up to #2 and are poised to draft a QB, that opportunity goes up in smoke since everyone knows, regardless of what Bradford does or how well he plays this season, he has no chance to get the job now.
Now Bradford is a glorified placeholder who will likely be on his way to yet another team next season regardless of what he does. I’m not sure how someone could not understand the frustration inherent in such a change of situation.
What is a fair chance to earn the long term starting job? Having zero competition such that they HAVE to give him the job out of desperation? NO! Bradford has not earned any long term security. His contract CLEARLY states that. Let’s not paint the false picture that Bradford is here on some cheap contract. He was not likely to get significantly more in the open market. Bradford was not forced into any situation that should have surprised him. The team came out BEFORE signing Bradford saying they wanted to draft a QB. Doug Pederson never hid the fact that he wanted an opportunity to coach up his own guy. And Bradford had every chance to walk at FA if he wanted to and thought he could make more. His agent and him clearly made the calculation at the time that this was the best situation for him for the best money, and probably gambled it would be hard for the Eagles to get a franchise QB. The fact the Eagles managed to get a top 2 draft pick QB means they lost that gamble. But that doesn’t mean he just gets to take back his bet. If the Eagles felt he was a franchise QB, they would have given him a deal accordingly. They didn’t and he signed it. He can be mad or frustrated if he wants, but demanding a trade is not only a sign of weak mental makeup, it’s also something he has ZERO control over.
Where/when did Bradford ever say he wants zero competition? Where/when did he ever say he wants the Eagles to simply give him the starting job? I’ve not seen those quotes or anything close to them.
I agree Bradford made a choice of his own free will to sign back with the Eagles and likely saw this situation as the best opportunity for him to earn a long term starting gig. I can also understand why he was willing to compromise on the number of years and $$ aspects of the deal since he believed he would get a fair shot here to earn the long term job and may not have had many other opportunities to choose from.
All I’m arguing is that I understand why Bradford might feel upset about the change in the situation here and that having those feelings does not make him “entitled” or “a baby” or “greedy” or any of the other accusations made against him in these comments. It is a legit reaction IMO; is it the right one? Would I be more glad if he bit his lip and tried to make the best of it? Sure, but I’m not Bradford and I’m not so sure everyone here would be able to do that themselves in a similar situation.
If Sam felt the need to be coddled with long term assurances, he was free to test free agency and try to find a team that would felate his ego.
I think you’re being a bit overly generous to Sam painting him as an innocent naive.
I’m not necessarily siding with Bradford. It’s possible Howie was totally straight with him and he’s just being a big baby. Doesn’t seem the most plausible scenario to me, but it’s possible.
My point is, it’s part of Howie’s job to anticipate how Bradford might react to things and not let them become a drag on the franchise. Bradford’s been here more than a year. If he’s petulant or a bit of a primadonna, that’s something Howie should be aware of at this point and factor into his decision-making. As it stands now, we’re likely to end up taking a huge cap hit in exchange for what will amount to a low round pick, because Bradford’s value is now shot and we have no trade leverage. This situation could’ve been avoided by just letting Bradford walk, or by telling him explicitly during contract negotiations that while he would be given a chance to prove himself the team also intended to pursue other QB options, including possibly trading up in the draft. Failure to do either of these things has put the team in a bind and Roseman has to get some of the blame for that.
So go QBless, hoping that you can trade up, knowing that you will be extorted because you have no QB.
OR???
I don’t understand this kiss his ass and tell him he’s so pretty and we love you, Howie named him starter. Sam is now throwing a hissyfit.
So go QBless, hoping that you can trade up, knowing that you will be extorted because you have no QB.
I understand the logic of Roseman’s thinking. Viewing things from a purely rational, cost-benefit perspective that strips out the human element, it makes perfect sense. The problem is that we’re dealing with people here and people don’t always respond to things rationally. If there was a possibility Bradford was going to respond to this move by blowing up (and clearly there was), it was Howie’s job to anticipate that and take it into account in his planning. You don’t have to coddle Bradford, but you do have to make sure he’s well aware the team might make a move like this before he signs that new contract so that locker room acrimony doesn’t become an issue.
I don’t think you can blame Rosenman for Sam deciding he wants to renege on his contract.
Bradford hasn’t reneged on his contract yet. He’s just made it clear that he isn’t happy and is withdrawing his full investment from the team. It’s my view that if a dispute gets to the point where an employee is doing something like that, management has in one way or another failed, because having a guy who’s an active negative in your organization is harmful. Either you do what you need to to keep him happy, or you cut him loose when it’s very easy for both sides to walk away at low cost. You don’t incur the costs of re-contracting him and then piss him off. That’s just not smart. Whether Bradford’s being a baby or not isn’t really the issue. The issue is that Roseman should have anticipated that there was a distinct possibility Bradford would be unhappy and avoided getting himself into this situation. Not only does it cost the team assets (money and cap flexibility), but it sends a bad message to the other players on the team about whether management can be trusted to negotiate in good faith. It’s just a bad look. David Murphy had a very good column on this on the Pattison Ave blog today:
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pattisonave/Tone-deaf-Eagles-courting-self-made-disaster-with-Bradford-Wentz.html
You mean naif. I only correct you because you were cool enough to try the word.
I would not say Bradford needs or wants to be coddled. If Roseman told him he would be given a legit chance to earn the long term job and that was key to getting Bradford to re-sign here, then I can totally understand why Bradford is mad. It is not coddling that Bradford wants; its honesty and being dealt with straight instead of manipulated.
“IF”
I don’t think this trade removes the possibility of him being the Franchise QB. If he proves that he is the next Brees, then he is most likely going to stay here. If not maybe he can go to another team with a giant contract and win a Superbowl, just like Brees.
He wasn’t a free agent this off season. Unfortunately for him, the NFL has the Eagles the right to franchise tag him if they so choose. If you look at the contract he received, it is pretty clear Howie gave him two options. The tag with nothing promised beyond this year, or a second year to really prove his salt.
I think the root of the problem has to be that Sam already didn’t like the teams commitment to him. Sorry. You signed the deal.
Couldn’t disagree more. The fact that this trade is bringing out the worst in Bradford tells you everything you need to know. Bradford JUST signed a pretty lucrative deal, albeit for only 2 years. He had to know he is only a short term option until he can prove himself otherwise. Bradford should be sucking it up and going out of his way to prove the Eagles made a mistake by playing at a franchise QB level. The fact that he got paid and now wants to whine about having to face rookie competition just provides furthe evidence that he isn’t the guy you want as the franchise QB.
I agree Bradford’s not the guy I want as a franchise QB. But dealing with this situation required a delicate personal touch – emotional intelligence, as Lurie would put it – and Roseman has failed to exhibit that. There’s no way Bradford resigned on even a short term deal without discussing his potential role in the organization going forward. If Howie told him “you’re definitely going to get a chance to be the guy, but we can’t give you a long term deal until you prove yourself”, then reneged on that by trading up for Wentz, that is a pretty big deal. I can understand how Bradford would feel screwed over (he almost certainly would have looked harder at other options when he was a free agent), and it was a pretty major screwup on Howie’s part failing to anticipate that he might react badly to it. Now we’re going to be stuck trading him for pennies on the dollar AND taking a big cap hit. I reiterate: I think Howie screwed the pooch here.
I guess I don’t think trading up for Wentz is reneging on that deal. Bradford should be the starter if we keep him this year. If he plays lights out, he has made the Eagles job very difficult in a good way. In that case, if he plays like a franchise Qb, even with the resources used for Wentz, you don’t just give away a franchose Qb. What Bradford is asking for is taking “a chance to be the franchise QB” and translate it to “be the unchallenged starter.” That’s Bradford reneging on the deal discussed, not Howie.
It’s possible there was a miscommunication or misunderstanding. But it’s a GM’s job to make sure that doesn’t happen vis-a-vis the players on his team. If he doesn’t, you get a lot of disgruntled players on the roster, and that directly hurts the team.
We will have to agree to disagree, because I disagree with the original premise. Howie, even with drafting Wentz, in my opinion if giving Bradford an oportunity to be the franchise QB. He has this year to show that he can 1, stay healthy, and 2, play at a high level. If he does, then the trade up was very costly, however, you can’t simply let Bradford walk, and you use him as your franchise QB. With that said, you can’t just sit back and not do anything at QB if you feel the QB you have is a major uncertainty, something I don’t think Howie would have mislead Bradford on given the deal that was signed. Wentz (or Goff, just in case) is real competition thay they brought in. Bradford was just banking on the fact that the Eagles would fail to bring in real competition and that is entirely on him. Not howie. Howie is doing his job. Bradford now needs to do his, but instead he is whining.
The point is Wentz will start over Bradford regardless of what Bradford does on the field i.e. there is no way Bradford can earn the long term starting job now due to the investment the Eagles made to get Wentz. Even if Wentz stinks, he is going to be given the gig and allowed to keep it.
I look at this in completely the opposite way. The whole goal of the moves the Eagles have made around the QB position is, get this team a franchise QB. Do whatever it takes to get the best opportunity to get a franchise QB. So, I disagree with the way you are looking at it in terms of even if Wentz sucks. If BOTH Bradford and Wentz suck, of course you stick with Wentz. But if Bradford plays at a franchise QB level, the team would be out of their mind to let him walk, regardless of the potential they see in Wentz. The problem is, we aren’t talking about “Bradford had a 7 game stretch of decent play” = franchise QB. We are talking about elite level QB play. That is extremely unlikely for Bradford to accomplish because 1) it’s extremely unlikely for any QB to accomplish, and more importantly 2) Bradford has shown increasingly limited signs that he has the capability to accomplish that. Regardless, as the starter this season, he is being given that opportunity to overcome the odds. That doesn’t mean the Eagles should just sit back and do nothing to increase their chances at finding their franchise QB any way they can. They see that opportunity with Wentz and if/when Bradford is unable to prove to be a franchise QB, they have positioned themselves to try and show that Wentz can be that next franchise QB.
A team does not likely give up two 1st rd picks, a 2nd rd pick, a 3rd rd pick and 4th rd pick for the rights to draft their franchise QB and then sit him for more than a year IMO.
I agree with you the Eagles are trying to maximize their ability to find a franchise QB – giving themselves optionality as Hinkie would say – but they are not equal situations. The QB who was drafted at an extremely high price and also paid accordingly will always have more clout/leverage.
The investment alone makes that QB first in line for the franchise gig regardless of his performance or anyone elses. That is just the reality proven over and over throughout the years in the NFL.
Bradford would have to lead the Eagles to a SB win this year and play out of his mind in order to hold that relentless tide back. And even that might not last very long.
Of course Wentz has more leverage. But leverage comes into play only if they play at similarly high levels. If Bradford sucks, who cares, you cut him regardless. If he plays like he did this past season (read: not at franchise-QB level, but ok starter level), he is still not your franchise QB and you move on (hopefully, while being able to trade him for draft picks). If he plays at franchise QB level, that’s when you as an organization do what is necessary to keep your franchise QB.
Look, I’m not saying the deck is stacked against Bradford. But what I AM saying is that they NECESSARILY should be. He is given a CHANCE. Not a blank slate. Bradford SHOULD have to play out of his mind (as a franchise QB would be doing) do feel comfortable about his job. Playing well enough to squeak by is not good enough. I don’t understand why it’s ok for us to accept mediocrity at the most important position on the field. The Eagles are saying, we will let you start. Either play like a franchise QB, or we will find someone else that can. Nothing about that message should contradict a message Howie is providing Bradford in signing the deal he signed.
Bradford could play like Brady and they would still go with Wentz due to the investment they made, the lower salary commitment and the cost control they’ll have for many years.
There is no scenario (outside of death or major injury) once Wentz is drafted that will not result in him being the Eagles starter as soon as he is deemed ready.
I’m not advocating that Bradford be given the job or that the Eagles were wrong in getting the #2 pick or that Bradford is right to bail on the contract he signed etc.
All I’m arguing is that IF Roseman told Bradford, as leverage to get him to re-sign here for the Eagles friendly deal, that he would be give a fair shot to earn the long term job, I can fully understand Bradford’s frustration and anger now.
Thats it.
Fair enough. I guess I disagree with your first point, but view it in terms of, yes, he has to play like Brady in order to justify staying. As for your second point, it’s one thing to be frustrated. The question is, what do you do with that frustration. To me, the “football move” would be to go out and show that the Eagles put themselves in a tough situation by sacrificing all those picks when the franchise QB was already on the roster (a situation the Eagles would gladly take). Instead, Bradford is taking the selfish approach of the situation is an uphill battle for him, and that is unsatisfactory to him therefore he wants a trade. I think a good agent (which his agent is), would understand that no matter what the Eagles say under the table, the only thing that matters is the contract itself. The contract doesn’t guarantee Bradford’s job security and it doesn’t guarantee he will have an exclusive shot at the long term QB. Therefore, even if Roseman said anything along those lines, without the contract to support it, it’s meaningless. To me, that’s just negotiation 101. Bradford’s agent is intelligent and 100% knows that without the financial incentive in place for Bradford to be the long term QB, he is not going to get any preferential treatment. And frankly, I bet they felt no other team was going to offer that either, so the reality is, he didn’t take a under the table deal to resign here, he just took the deal that he thought was the best he was going to get.
I agree the key is how one handles their frustration/anger and what they do. I agree it is not the right course to demand a trade if these rumors turn out to be true.
All I’m trying to do is put myself in Bradford’s shoes and understand the human reaction. I’m not sure I’d be able to pull myself together so easily after something like this happened and I saw all the hard work I’ve put in go up in smoke again. Remember, this is not the first time things have blown up in his face unexpectedly.
Some may make light of it or argue that somehow due to the money he has made he has no right to be upset, but I’d say Bradford has shown some pretty impressive toughness and tenacity dealing with the injuries and setbacks during his career so far. I think he was really excited to stay here and finally get a chance to build something. Now, that is toast.
That is statement is totally bankrupt. They would sign Bradford long term to a top 5 number,before the season ended and tell Wentz stories of Aaron Rodgers.
If the Eagles extended Bradford long term to a top 5 salary contract after drafting and paying Wentz as the #2 pick, they would be idiotic morons and the laughingstock of the entire league. That would be a massive waste of cap resources. As soon as Wentz is drafted, he is the guy. The level of investment to get the pick alone mandates value be realized and the best way to realize value is to make that player the starter. Otherwise, the player’s value is greatly diminished and you continue to eat away on his rookie contract which is when a draft pick like that provides the most cap value compared to other franchise QB who are being paid thru the nose.
You said if he played like Brady. No one would be laughing. That would make him a top 5 quarterback. You play Wentz extended minutes in Pre-season he looks good, you trade him for essentially what you gave up for that #2 pick. The end game is the same, they have a franchise QB.
Very well put. All this talk of “optionality” ignores the fact that these guys are not assets in the same way mining rights or mortgages or stock options are assets. They’re human beings with human emotions – pride, ego, insecurity, etc. – and failing to account for those things and treating them like entries on a spreadsheet is going to result in problems. We’re saw that with Hinkie, we’re seeing it with the Rockets, and now we’re seeing it with Roseman.
Trust the Process!!
Money talks.
Look at the deal they gave Bradford.
It’s effectively a 1 year 12.5 million dollar deal. That’s really low for a QB. In year two it became eat 5.5 in dead money or pay him 23.5 million.
Sam isn’t dumb. Sam’s agent isn’t dumb.
That deal says you’ve got one season, in a new system, with a new coach, and you better be top 10-12 or you’re gone.
He’s still being given a chance to prove himself. They didn’t trade his ass to the Saskatchewan Roughriders. Howie came out and named him the starting QB.
If he plays great, the Eagles will find him a nice new place to play. And he’ll get paid a shit ton of money.
If he plays like he historically has, he’ll get a decent amount of money to go be a stopgap somewhere else.
If he plays like crap, well then he can go home to Oklahoma, with his $70million dollar career earnings under the age of 30, and live a pretty sweet life.
To paint Sam as some damsel in distress that was dicked over in this process is ridiculous.
The issue is it does NOT matter how Bradford plays now. He has ZERO chance to stay here and be the starter which is what he wanted. Wentz will be the starter as soon as he is deemed ready. If Bradford was told in order to get him to re-sign here that he would be given a legit and fair chance to win the long term job, that rug has now been totally pulled out from underneath him. Bradford may not have re-signed here if that fair chance did not exist. Bradford likely would not want to be a placeholder.
Just because the guy has made a lot of $$ does not give the team carte blanche to manipulate him or for fans to dismiss his legit concerns.
Bradford was a pending free agent. He signed a deal that said we are not at all beholden to you long term. He turned down a long term offer last August.
You’re argument hinges on well maybe they promised him the world and then handed him a deal that says otherwise but he’s not at all at fault.
More like Bradford is screwing the pooch here. Trading up for a QB isn’t going to stop him from being able start for the rest of his contract, in Philadelphia. Its obvious that he is going to be given every chance, at least under that contract. If he plays well it doesn’t even matter if we extend him.
Bradford is missing the big picture. So much has happened already this off season, there is sure to be very little interest in his services. Ryan Fitzpatrick has got to be viewed at least on equal footing around the league and can be had for just a contract.
His role as the starter is secure for at least this season. Very unlikely anyone else will promise him even that. This reminds me very much of the Kim situation with the Orioles. Why try hard to improve when you can force a team to give it to you?
I agree with almost all of what you said, except the we’re going to be forced to trade Bradford for pennies on the dollar part. Maybe Howie should have done some more emotional groundwork leading up to the trade to soften the blow for Sam, but this demand is just Sam’s initial (emotional) response to the (probable) Wentz acquisition. The same emotional intelligence is called for from this point forward, trying to bring Sam back into the fold, and demonstrating to him the necessary role he can still play for the team, and that really (especially with the way his contract is structured), the best thing for his career long-term.
Guys gonna look like a real chump when the Eagles draft Ricky Williams.
How would it have been better to just let him walk for nothing? First, Cleveland would have even more leverage over us because we would’ve been desperate for a QB. Second, whatever we get for Bradford is better than nothing. In fact, I’m glad to see this because I want to trade Bradford to get some picks back.
This should be in response to the guy below.
Eagles will need to eat a $11M cap hit to trade Bradford this year – not great cap management.
Bradford can sod off and grow some balls. If i am the Eagles i tell his agent go find a 2nd rounder if he is so valuable otherwise he is playing in 2016 for the Eagles and needs to go grow up.
Bradford has never had to face competition in the NFL and he needs to grow a pair and actually compete for a job and his career. He has to realise that this is 1) a bad look for other NFL teams and 2) if he does not deliver this year he may never get another chance to start again since he will be signing with teams as competition or to mentor a rookie if he does not produce this year.
Pathetic to be honest.
whereas Chip would just say fine, we will cut you, I’m glad Howie is in charge.
If he can’t beat out Wentz then shame on him.
He could just ponder retirement again. Dude hasn’t really improved since he got to the NFL.
The comments below this post — among Xenyon, Iskar36, Belicheck, laeagle, Tumtum — all excellent.
A real pleasure.
Good job Chip and your social skills. Fire Chip!
I say we make him regret it – trade him to San Fran.
That Coley video made me think of Dan Klecko for some reason.
My thoughts were more Sappish (not quite at the same level, mind you.)
I wish we could some how get a 2nd rd pick out of trading him, highly doubt it tho
I assume you mean Bradford, but since Tommy was talking about DL, I can’t be sure.
My bad, yes Bradford. Espn is saying he’s refusing to show up and wants to be traded
[…] Tommy Lawlor Thank god the Eagles moved back to the 4-3. I forgot just how much fun it is to fall in love with […]
Shoutout to my school FAU!
I hate these slow offseason days.
This brings me so much pleasure…. while i respect the heck out of Brady i hate the Patriots and it was blindingly obvious they were deflating the balls.
so starting when? first 4 games this year?
Yes
hahahaha. I can almost hear the collective whining here in NE from my office.
Me too. Deep in the New England woods. Right over the noise of my running chainsaw. lol
Wow. That was unexpected (by me, anyway).
Hopefully the Supreme Court DOESNT waste its time with This crap, and this is the final ruling and everyone can move on… shut up and take your 4 game suspension and go win 11 games like you always do.. Silver linning: Bellichick gets 4 games of valuable evaluation opportunity to see what their young backüp looks im game action at this point in his development, then again, they probably will end up wasting that 2nd round pick, and it will be a similar case like Denver losing Osweiler, because even if Garapollo is legit, Brady probably won’t retire soon enough to get Jimmy to sign an extension with them
Told you Bradford wouldn’t be on this team next season. Told you!!!
Wow Tommy. I’m thinking that you have been missing the 4-3 so badly that your judgement is rusty. All I see from Coley is a slow-off-the-snap big guy who runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. He has impressive closing speed but the rest is just blah.
So, while I hate the fact that Bradford is whining publically, can anyone explain the ultimate implications of trading him? I understand it will create significant dead money, but if you can get value for him from Denver or NYJ, wouldn’t it effectively being similar to trading cap money for a draft pick. Considering how well Howie manages the rest of the cap, doesn’t seem like the worst thing in the world.
did Denver lose many guys (I don’t think so, so their window is open)? Why wouldn’t they call the Eagles about Bradford?
I think the Eagles do not move him for less than a 2nd. Let him play out the year and if he is decent and injury free you get at least a 2nd and upside for more. Helps protect Wentz and allows the team to compete for a crummy NFC East in 2016, and at only a ‘$7mil’ cost past the already sunk signing bonus i think he is probably worth that.
and you think no one would give a 2nd? Denver?
No.
Conditional maybe.
I think you could get a 2017 4th that conditions up to a 2nd. That would be best case.
I think realistically you’re looking at swapping a 6 for a 4 or a 5 for a 3.
Which is why the Eagles are willing to let him play the season out and hope they can recoup more.
really even with the cheap contract? I know I keep asking the same question, I’m just surprised the value is so low.
Still a large injury risk combined with the mediocre track record and no longer being on a cheap side of QB salary structure. The Eagles contract is short term – good for you if he plays badly, but bad for you if he plays well since you’ll have to extend him soon for probably close to or at the going QB rate.
If he gets traded we eat his $11mil in signing bonus. The team that receive him gets the rest of the contract. It would effectively save us $1.5mil in 2016, and $7mil total savings over the 2 years. (this assumes we trade him in 2017 or if we cut him then he resigns at more than $4mil. Otherwise we would have to pay up to $4mil in offsets)
For the team trading you are giving him $7mil in 2016 in salary which is fully guaranteed, with $4mil in 2017 in offset guaranteed salary in 2017 and $17mil total.
Is a tradable contract but not sure if anyone is going to actually do it.
why would you not if you are Denver? I mean Sam is >>> Sanchez. It’s a really cheap QB contract.
“If he gets traded we eat his $11mil in signing bonus.”
Sort of. We pay it either way. So, one way to look at it is that money is already gone. It doesn’t cost us 11M to trade him, it just means that we don’t get a year of starting QB out of that money.
On the other hand, if we get rid of a malcontent plus a draft pick that plays essentially for free, maybe that is better value on our 11M at this point?
I think the Eagles would rather pay Bradford $11M to play for them than for their competition.
Justin Zimmer put freakish numbers. It’s worth taking a shot on him in the 5th if Schwartz loves him.
Re: Bradford’s Trade Request
If/when media folks start reporting what Bradford and Condon claim they were told by Pederson, Roseman, and Lurie . . .
That may be when this issue is at the near banks of the Rubicon.
I’m beginning to think that Bradford’s mental make-up is a contributing factor to his lack of success in the NFL.
He’s been everyone’s athletic darling since, what, 3rd grade?
Great point.
Meh… to me, he tries on the field, he stood up to some big hits. Just is over-conservative and probably doesn’t read D’s well/fast enough.
I don’t understand this notion that the Eagles are just going to take a bag of balls for Sam.
He’s not doing himself any favors.
He has no leverage. He can sit at home. And get fined.
And fined.
And fined.
And fined.
And then the Eagles can sue his ass.
And fined.
And fined.
Yeah. How does he come out looking good from any of this if it’s true? I don’t know of any team that’s going to just start building around Sam as if he’s their savior. If he can’t handle a rookie qb being drafted then he certainly can’t handle any sort of playoff pressure.
Part of me thinks the birds have made back channel calls, and a team is trying to turn this toxic to drive down his price by leaking false information.
good call, the only thing he really has on his side is not wanting to learn another new offense only to be moved again. I guess thats kinda fair but you signed the contract kind of knowing that already. Dont let the door hit ya, take a 5th and call it a day Howie
Oh god no.
For a 5th?
I’ll play chicken with him reporting to camp over a 5th.
only be rid of that toxic attitude is why, otherwise I agree
If he’s not in camp, he’s not toxic.
If he shows up, he’s there to play for a future.
Let’s see Bradford tender back the first $5.5MM he’s already received.
At least then he can say, it’s not about the money . . .
It’s only about not wanting to compete.
I just need 10 other all-pros on offense. Then I’ll be the franchise QB.
Somehow . . . this all fits with Kelly’s Character-and-Growth-Mind-Set garbage.
Somebody has found the “sear” setting on the grill.
Fully agree with you. But the question is what represents value for Bradford. A second round pick is a simple answer to that since that’s what we spent. But a 3rd round pick still has value as well. Is he likely to return more than that next season when we likely move to Wentz? Maybe, but you may also get less, so I could see a 3rd round pick being a legitimate return for trading Bradford if we go that direction.
A 3rd and a conditional 2017 and I’m returning calls.
Conditional being a late pick?
A pick regardless but sliding scale depending on how he plays.
So something like a 3rd this year and something like the following for 2017:
5th-This is the baseline we get at least this
4th- He plays 10+ games
3rd- He makes the Pro Bowl
2nd- He throws for 5k yards and wins the superbowl
Exactly. If this is what he really wants, he just makes no more money this year and then loses his bonus in court. His career will be over and he will have tarnished his legacy far worse than his performance already has.
I mean, I fully get this from Bradford’s camp as an opening salvo in the wake of the trade-up. How many systems has he now been in, in how many years? If I’m him, I’d really be looking for some stability at this point in my career, with a coach/OC duo who’s firmly in place on a team that sees me as their QB of the future. So if he thought that two-year deal would allow him to establish himself as such here, proving that he deserved a higher dollar long-term commitment, I understand his frustration with now having to learn yet another new system simply to babysit the position for a year until the new guy is ready (at which point, Howie will get to determine where to ship him off to to learn yet another new system). So, yeah, from his perspective the situation as is kinda sucks. But you’re right, demanding a trade and threatening a holdout is his only real leverage, and it’s not very much at that.
Best take so far
This really has me boiling. Mr. Sleeves, who has never won 8 games in a season, has a career record of 25-37-1, has 2 ACL tears under his belt, was mediocre in 2015, and has already been paid 11m to play for us this year, has the gall to refuse to come to practice and ask for a trade.
What have you done Sam? Where are your pro-bowls? Where are your division championships? Where do you get off demanding loyalty from a franchise that you have done absolutely nothing for? Especially after you cashed that check for $11mil!!
Are you afraid of competing with a rookie? Are you afraid of a career backup? If you think you are THE franchise QB, then show it on the field. Don’t ask us to just project you there and bet our future on it.
Sam, you are a bum. You will always be a bum. If it were up to me, I’d let you sit on the couch and watch football on tv this year, and next year. I hope you get crabs.
I did like Sam but STFU and get to practice and do your damn job
https://twitter.com/LesBowen/status/724632447313391616
Oh hey, look tampering…
Nah. Didn’t talk to Bradford directly.
___________
I kid.
Totally agree.
It’s ok. The Eagles get comp picks when tampering is involved.
Denver?
NYJ?
Buffalo?
Anyone else?
Cleveland!! ha. We want ALL our picks back!!!
San Francisco has a FO member who likes to stir up trouble…
bueller….bueller
If Eckel starts having “sources” we’ll know for sure…
Cleveland – they’ve got a truckload of money to spend!
More tape breakdowns of Wentz. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t have these weaknesses but it might explain what Eagles thinking is in terms of being able to develop him.
From Article introduction:
Evaluators find examples of a number of flaws with the quarterback, and when assembled, you have a kitchen sink brief of sorts: A collection of arguments that make the case that Wentz is not the top-flight quarterback that he is made out to be.
Allow me to retort, with a Defendant’s Reply Brief.
http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/2016-nfl-draft/2016/03/01/defendants-brief-reply-draft-evaluators-v-carson-wentz/
whoa that last sentence is like talking dirty to ACV.
This was great!
I’ve fully talked myself into Carson Wentz, to the point that I’ll be disappointed if we end up with Goff.
You’re a bad person.
I’m an upside guy. Love the high risk / high reward play.
Have you heard of Joe Webb?
Don’t you blaspheme in here!
Goff has higher upside.
I like Goff. I promise.
But if we’re talking upside, I’ll take the taller / stronger / faster guy.
Shawn Oakman is available.
Should just draft Cardale Jones then
Yeah, that’s being reductive.
How about:
“But if we’re talking upside, I’ll take the taller / stronger / faster guy who has also demonstrated the ability to make NFL reads and throws with generally good accuracy in high leverage situations while also demonstrating intelligence and leadership capabilities.”
IS THAT A LITTLE MORE CLEAR YOU WORD-PARSING CONTRARIAN ANTI-WENTZ-ITES?????
But most of the time he makes one read. I know you talked yourself into Wentz but he’s your typical boom or bust QB.
sorry I saw a 4 in here
“where arguably 4 of the best QBs ever is playing right now”
look it’s no big deal, Brees is great. I think he’s 2nd tier, but still great.
People have the Goff ceiling all mixed up. They either go hyperbolic and lazy with Rodgers, or they groupthink with Matt Ryan.
Both are wrong.
Tell me I couldn’t very lightly redact names and details and it wouldn’t read like a Goff report.
http://forums.chargers.com/archive/index.php/t-26178.html
Nothing wrong with Matt Ryan. He turned around a franchise and is a top 8 QB in a league where arguably 4 of the best QBs ever is playing right now.
who is # 4? I assume you are including a retired Manning, Brady and Rodgers.
Brees?
Brees is one of the best QB’s ever? I don’t know about that….
Now you’re just being silly. Brees will be consensus top 10 QB of all time when his career is over.
well you just moved the goalposts from 4 to 10. Elway, Marino, Montana, Favre, Unitas, the other 3 you mentioned, Steve Young, Staubach. Brees is very good but is a product of gross numbers which are a product of his time.
I never even said top 4? You just assumed that.
Payton, Brady, Rodgers. Brees threw for a lot of yards and has a ring but I dont think he’s at that upper echelon of players. He’s 3rd best in his generation.
That’s the most likely outcome to me. But his true ceiling is Brees.
Not arguing that he can’t be the next Brees but Matt Ryan is also a very high floor.
I mean, what do you think Wentz’s likely outcome / ceiling is?
Likely: Somewhere in the Josh Freeman who gives a shit to McNabb range.
Ceiling: Probably Bortles, healthy Culpepper range
that’s a terrible ceiling.
McNabb to Culpepper is MVP level….
Go back and look at Culpeppers numbers.
Bortles and Culpeper are higher than McNabb?
While I do hope we take a DL late in the draft, I really hope that we also get a stud DT with our 3rd round pick… I don’t know if there is a position with worse backups than DT, and unlike most backups for other positions, backüp DTs need to rotate and contribute each week, where as Backups at most other positipns ARENT playing next year unless a starter gets hurt..,After 3 years of building a DL for 2gapping 3-4, we are empty in terms of backüp Talent that can play in schwartz scheme and explode into the backfield and be disruptive. If that’s not bad enough, we literally may not have a single backüp 3tec on our roster. Cox is a great player, but no one is great enough to not have a single backüp at his position… Hear a lot of talk about OL needs, but shit I trust our Backups at OL way more than what we have on the bench at DT, and OL backups only play if a starter gets hurt, where as we need backüp DTs ready to contribute in Games right from week 1
..
What other position could we draft thatsnot only as important as DT, is such a need because of a serious lack of depth/Talent, and also provides bang for our buck since a DT will be rotating in games immediately.
..
When you still have issues in the trenches, you shouldn’t even thing about worry about other positions. We NEED a backup OT and we really need a backup DT 3technique that brings some interior pass rush to the rotation…. I trust That two or 3 capable guards will emerge out of Brandon Brooks, Wiz, Gardner, Bunche, Barbie and turnstile T…. I have no trust whatsoever that taylor Hart, And Beau Allen can be quality contributors in Schwartz gap shootimg scheme.. We are ok in terms of fun stuffers but we really need a quality backüp DT who can come in and add to our interior pass rush, while having a plan B if Cox ever has to miss game action. If we are going to have Schwartz as our DC we need to be Stacked, 8 Deep with Beasts up front, 4DEs contributing in each game:Curry. BG, Barwin, hopefully MS2, and 4 DTs: Cox, Logan, 3rd round pick, Beau??, Hart? Raciti? Realistically we may have to Invest in an impact backup DT in this draft, and also draft another one next year. We need to build a force of a DL to really make a schwartz defense elite, plus we need Our backüp DTs on cheap rookie deals for the next 4 years once we pay Cox and Logan.
..
DT, OT, LB, our most pressing immediate needs… Probably need a backup Safety too, gotta add a,franchise RB at some point and redo our entire stable of RBs in the next two years..
Kind of a satirical article but probably true
http://billypenn.com/2016/04/25/reading-between-the-lines-carson-wentzs-gritty-love-letter-to-eagles-fans/
about Wentz article that was in his own words
http://www.theplayerstribune.com/carson-wentz-north-dakota-state-nfl-draft/
He makes a big deal of the North Dakota cold for a guy who played in a dome.
Question . . .
Does Bradford — or his agent Condon — have any allies in the local or national media?
Not just echo chambers. Allies.
Get your message out there loud and on brand enough, the echo chamber can be your ally.
Plenty of mouthpieces with shitty credibility.
see your point.
Albright supports and denies this point.
well done
or not
Coach —
Passing observation.
The chronology of events, while more compressed, parallel Bradford’s departure from the Rams last year.
In mid-February, it was reported that Bradford’s agent was free to look for deal with another team.
A couple days later, Fisher killed that report.
A couple weeks after that, Bradford’s traded.
Not a perfect parallel. But with Condon-Bradford, the fire follows the smoke.
_____________
Question:
Who has the strongest motive to put this information out there?
Trading partner?
Trading partner.
Drive down his price, both in $ and in draft resources.
Sam plays along because someone is willing to tell him he’s pretty.
“. . . he’s pretty.”
_________
a close 2nd to your “cardboard cutout.”
This Bradford nonsense is nonsense.
This team has zero incentive to lose, so why would they get rid of their starting QB that they are only paying 7mm? All the other money they spent on him is already gone, there’s no recouping that.
Zero leverage on either side. Eagles can’t move him, Bradford can’t force a move. Eagles probably would love him to never show up again and get their bonus money back.
this won’t end well for Bradford
has anything ever?
Contracts and money
Just your average down on his luck guy who has made $100 million before he turned 30.
poor rich bradford
the Eagles could probably buy a 4th round pick for 11mil if they wanted. Don’t see why they would give SAM 11mil and dump him for Cheap when what appeals about Wentz is his longterm upside. He still looks “clunky” from the pocket, and doesn’t seem even close to being as game ready as Goff..
,,
No way Chase can play well enough to really allow us to take the time and develope Wentz. unless he is some crazy QB prodigy who develops at a crazy rate, it’s much more appealing to take a shot on this raw kid with a huge upside if we have a starting QB that has a chance of playing well enough to all us to be as patiemt with Wentz as he needs…Also never a good idea to trade a player out of perceived desperation.
..
Coming off two ACL surgeries, he hadn’t played in years, and allegedy the Browns were offering a #1, and we traded a #2 and FOles for him.. A year later he gets thru a season proving his knee issues are behind him, is signed to a team friendly two year deal, we already gave him 11 mil, and we are allegedly supposed to dump him for some 4th or 5th conditional pick? I sure hope not… Trading up for a Raw QB is less appealing if we don’t have SAM, and even when we are really ready to trade SAM, we still should hold on until we get acceptable value instead of trading him out of perceived position of weakness
..
He has no leverage, and to tell you the truth, im kind of interested to see what a pissed off fired up SAM Bradford looks like. Up till now, he has been GIVEN EVERYTHING because of his pedigree, he hasn’t been asked to earn much. He never has had a team add a legit threat behind him that he has to compete with.. He is allegedly a tough competitor and I really like to see what happens in a position where he has no chance but to perform and play for his spot… His days of getting by on potential seem to be over, and im interested in seeing how that effects him. He is the starting QB of the Eagles this year, he won’t get to hold on to that job past this year off of potential, but if he is smart he will realize that he is a QB and that if he performs, a team won’t be so quick to get rid of him just because a raw unknow has been sitting on the bench all year.
..
I don’t think his Eagle career is over yet, but it will be over unless he finally performs and has a really good season validating his potential, and im not so sure having him in this position is such a bad thing, and Id be really bummed if we dump him for some crap value when he has no leverage and we really do need him.
After the last year and a half under chip, I really don’t have it in me to endure a season of Chase Daniels… Think our roster moves should have been very different if we were going to spend a year with Chase and a really raw rookie QB
Told you
I think for you to tell people something, they’d have to actually be listening to you.
you’re like a tree that falls in the woods with no one around.
Man everyone was doing such a good job of ignoring him all morning.
Eagles can only blame themselves for the way they handled this, hasn’t been a great 6 months in terms of PR aside from the 2 weeks that howie was god. Why pay sam so much money if you’re going to give him a chance to be a starter. QB can’t be a leader when the team has clearly signaled that he’s gone after next year.
Further any team that would spend $20m in cap space for a guy they only want for a year is poorly managed. Just eat the year and pay for a player. That $18m mill could have gone to Fletch and another FA to help the team, but they literally flushed that $$ down the toilet.
you didn’t know about the trade to 2 back when he was signed. Kempski has a good article on this if you want to read it.
i hate kempski and i know he hates sam, but i’ll read it.
About the trades up, I think it was on their minds. You could have stuck at 8 and gotten a baller still since you knew the qbs were going 1 / 2 after rams moved up. You could have stuck at 15 and gotten a later round pick, maybe a 3rd?
I’m tired of him too but it’s a good article I think:
http://www.phillyvoice.com/yes-eagles-are-already-paying-sam-bradford-and-chase-daniel-lot-so-what/
Yeah I don’t like him either but its a decent thoughtful piece.
My understanding is that Roseman had an idea that he would end up with the 8th pick since the combine which is when they stated discussing the trade with Miami which was stationed two doors away from the Eagles at the combine. So Roseman probably had an idea he could get to #8 since the combine. Wasn’t the combine before we paid SAM?
..
if you can get to #8, odds are you can get one of the teams in the top 3 to trade out if you are willing to pay the price..
I don’t think “odds are” and if you didn’t have Bradford you might have been taken advantage of in the trade. Signing Bradford only cost money. Maybe he plays super well. I’m just not buying that they shouldn’t have signed him b/c they knew they could get one of the top 2 QB’s.
That’s also a good point
If they trade Bradford for a pick, how does that qualify as flushing the money down the toilet?
$11m gone. And what’s the quality of a pick you’ll get for a “mediocre” player that doesn’t want to be there?
Why don’t we wait and find out? Or you could just keep being dramatic about $11 million gone when you have no idea about the result.
It’s not really dramatic, i just think it was a short sighted allocation of resources.
Look at jets and houston, both of those teams had players who played way better than sam last year – but are willing to move on over much less $.
I liked keeping sam, b/c i like sam, but if you aren’t going to commit to a guy why blow so much $$. I assume Howie is going to let Sam play for a trade and recoup some of the compensation used to get Wentz, but feel like it makes your lockerroom a little dysfunctional.
So if Howie really thinks that Wentz is a franchise QB, he should not have made the trade because he already gave Bradford a short term contract before knowing this was a possibility?
Your complaints make absolutely no rational sense.
Scouts have been looking at these guys since last year, hard for me to believe that it was just a month ago that the “franchise” moniker was decided on a whim.
I think Howie has a mandate to find a QB, so they have 3 and hope that one will work out. Howie also has a mandate to “be competitive” – which is why these moves look at a little schizo at the moment.
Are you purposefully being dense? A month ago, Cleveland might not have been willing to trade the pick, which curiously happened not long after they no longer had their choice of QB.
Look, its obvious you want to whine and complain and will keep doing it even without reason so have at it.
Browns were never taking a QB #2. They probably didmg hire this new front office so they can do the same exact thing the Browns been doing for 20 years that got them To this point
Browns were always trading the pick. But beyond that Eagles were bidding against the Rams for No. 1 and everyone knew the Tenn pick was for sale. I’m sure they called the browns as well as a backup.
And others also given that everyone is reporting that trade calls for other top-5 teams stopped when the Eagles got 2 – which means people were calling up for the QBs.
But let’s cut to the chase, what return would the Eagles need to get for Bradford for you to stop crying that $11 million went down the toilet?
We could probably buy a pick from a team for 11mil in Cap space.. Paying SAM 11mil and trading him for less than the Rams got for him coming off two ACLs is silly
Could not disagree more. Why would a team not rally behind a guy who is trying to prove himself? It looks like he has already shown that he has the ability to get the guys behind him.
This all goes back to something I have been saying for 2 seasons. QB by any means necessary. If Bradford plays at MVP level the next two seasons, you obviously figure out a way to move the young guy. Bradford, Daniels, #2 pick: They are all possible franchise QBs. One of them just has to show it. How likely any one of them is to become the next Elway is yet to be determined.
Howie is a businessman, not just a football guy. He is diversifying his portfolio. Anyone who faults him for it just hasn’t thought it through.
I’d keep Wentz even if Bradford is balling… If Bradford is playing lights out, and Wentz starting to look ready, we get rid of Chase and make Wentz the #2
..
Even if Bradford goes on a healthy streak Playing at a high level, why would we be so short sited as to trade Wentz? Are we ever going to be comfortable enough to assume that Bradford will stay healthy for the next 4 years? All we have to do is get rid of Bradford before we need to re sigń Wentz(4, 5 years from now)… The only reason the Broncos screwed up and lost Osweiler is because they had VON Miller who needed to be franchised at the same time when Osweiler could sign with another team.. All Roseman needs to do is make sure he doesn’t have an elite player that isn’t signed and can walk during the same Offseason as Wentz can walk, and problem solved, we Franchise Osweiler worst case scenario. Cut Bradford and proceed with Wentz from years, 3, 4, 5 thru year 13..
..
Even if Bradford plays well enough to be our QB the next 4 years, I see no reason to trade Wentz. Having that kid developing on the bench for a few years is not a bad thing,,. But as soon as Wemtz is ready to be Bradford’s #2, pederson will have to cut his boy Chase… If Bradford has us contending for a Super Bowl 3 years, having Wentz on the bench in case Bradford gets hurt late in the year would be great
I would pleased-as-punch crossing that bridge when we got there. I remember when I thought Vick and Foles were both good. What a good problem to have.
Sammy B showed to the facility today, unclear if he practiced.
We can deal with a pissed off Bradford, if the conflicting reports are even true, Or we can trade him and deal with more than 1 pissed off player. To ask Celek, Sproles,Peters to waste one of their last season’s with Chase Daniels is going to be a tough sell.. To ask MalcolmJenkins and BARWIN to waste their last window to win during their prime is going to be a tough sell….this is also a very important year for our developing young WRs and young TEs that we have invested in significantly, Id like to provide developing WR/TE with the best QB play possible next year. Chase Daniels probably doesn’t accomplish that for us.
The he doesn’t need $12m a year. Brian Hoyer can be terrible for a lot less $. But i understand why the got Daniels, i think generally when you have a regime change it’s going to lead to some inefficiencies, just not sure this was handled super well.
If we are getting Goff who doesn’t have as much of a high ceiling as Wentz but is more game ready, than Chase was the right signing. If we are taking a Raw upside Talent in Wentz a year, maybe two away from being ready, than Bradford was the Right signing… Where I think they didn’t handle it well is paying both SAM and Chase Who is only an eagle because he is Pedersons boy
..
If Goff was our QB,might as well go with Chase and let Goff take over week 9.. Where as I like Wentz upside much more if we have Bradford playing well, taking us to the playoffs which allows Wemtz to sit for as long as he needs… We need Wentz to be our Guy for the next 15 years, im fine with investing a year, two, even three if that turns out to be WHATS best for him..
..
But to do this after signing Chase and Bradford, ISNT handling things “super well” THATS for sure,
.
Now we have an expensive #2 who we will Probably have to take reps away from so that we can get Bradford ready each week, while also letting the Raw Rookie get a few reps during the week. Not ideal, for sure
From the perspective of a player nearing his career’s end — like Peters, Celek, and Sproles — sure, they want to win.
On the other hand, if the Eagles had cut them loose and declared a major re-build, I don’t think any of them would be making half of what they’re gonna be paid this year.
As for Jenkins and Barwin “wast[ing] their last window to win,” my response is, did they think Bradford’s the missing link?
In your recent screed against the Eagles’ trade to #2, you wrote that you thought — by virtue of Bradford’s 2-year deal — the Eagles committed to *evaluating* whether he was the answer.
Even you, as one of Bradford’s more forceful supporters, acknowledged he wasn’t the answer *yet*.
These are highly compensated professional athletes. Emphasis on the word professional.
If they’re unhappy, they can walk away and return some of the bonus money.
Otherwise, the can buckle their chinstraps and do their jobs — which does not include personnel evaluations.
and having just Chase gets Wentz more reps. You can still sit him barring injury. He did have time in a pro offense, Ive heard he is less raw than Bortles coming out. Bortles also did just fine getting thrown into the fire and is coming out the other side. I still prefer they sit him for close to a season, maybe some junk time near end of season. However, its not the worst thing if he gets some time earlier than expected.
Well that doesn’t really make sense does it?
Who knows what’s going on — who knows who is behind Schefty’s report.
Should there have been a denial from the Eagles or Bradford’s camp by now?
they were mum on other reports – i’m sure truth is Condon probably did give eagles a WTF call, not sure what’s to gain in a hold out situation. Sanchez already took best available job.
Their all probably trying to figure this whole thing out as we speak. For all we know he just showed up to hash it out.
There are no practices right now. I don’t think they are allowed to talk anything related to football with him right now.
First Day: April 4.
OTA Offseason Workouts: May 17-19, May 24-26, May 31, June 1-3.
Voluntary Minicamp: April 19-21.
Mandatory Minicamp: June 7-9.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/4/1/11348580/philadelphia-eagles-2016-offseason-workout-schedule-starts-on-april-4
Bradford + Jordan Matthews to SF
Kaepernick to Denver
3rd + 3rd to Philly from Denver + SF
What? That would be terrible.
How?
Because there is no need to trade Matthews as well and especially for that return.
I’d trade Bradford for a 3rd.
I’d trade Matthews for a 3rd.
So that’s where I’m at.
I understand that and I believe that would be a terrible return. There is no reason to trade Matthews for a 3rd as we’re shallow at the position already.
We are on the same team in that regard.
Since you are willing to trade JM for a 3rd, just curious how likely you think it is that a 3rd round pick out produces Matthews at any point?
I think a player with 3rd round value in this draft will contribute more to a winning football team for the foreseeable future, yes.
I’d trade him, for example, for Joe Haeg or Sterling Shepherd or Jason Hargrave or Connor McGovern.
Others think more highly of Matthews than I do. It’s fine. Maybe he’ll come around this year. But putting him on the outside when he struggles to separate and can’t really make contested catches is a bad idea in my opinion.
I disagree with you, but since you actually did think it through that the 3rd rounder will be more productive, I won’t fault you.
I think your crazy, but I don’t fault you.
How is that thinking it through though by just saying a 3rd rounder will be more productive? I think we should trade Cox because I believe this Coley guy that Tommy had never heard of will be more productive.
Some people get caught up with draft picks and thinking of them as currency. I just wanted to make sure he thought of it beyond the draft.
Thank god someone finally said it. I didnt want to be the first one that wants Cox traded for a 6th.
My logic? Brady was drafted in the 6th.
“Come around”? As many others have said, he had almost 1,000 yards last year!
C’mon.
If he struggles on the outside then im sure he would just move back to slot and continue to have 1000 yard seasons.
Its not always about position, but production. 1000 yards for a slot receiver is fantastic.
Completely unlikely – this would be a horrible trade!
The Mathews thing makes absolutely no sense.
I would riot. All alone.
Why are you guys so attached to Jordan Matthews?
Damn.
No one’s that attached to him but your proposal is dumb. What is the point of trading him for a 3rd? So we can take another receiver with that 3rd? That guy is most likely to be worse than Matthews.
So we can take a better player. Doesn’t have to be a WR. It can be (see below – I’d trade him straight up for Sterling Shephard).
And it could also be Josh Huff or the thousands of worse players taken in the 3rd round. No one is devoted to Matthews but wanting to trade him for a 3rd and acting like that player in the 3rd round is guaranteed to be better is ridiculous.
WTF has Jordan Matthews proven?
That he can be semi productive out of the slot running crossing patterns?
GREAT.
Way to change the topic from your previous guarantee that a better player will be found in the 3rd. I’ve already explained my feeling on Matthews. But go ahead and tell me the guaranteed best picks in this draft so I can save myself some time watching this weekend
I think he can be solid but it sort of feels like his ceiling is limited. Not sure Id trade him just yet but I dont hate your idea. Just more rebuilding and kinda feel like they are so thin at WR already, hes not the guy you want to move at this stage.
Like it or not the guy had 1000 yds last year (997). You aren’t getting that from a 3rd round rookie
997 is not 1000
it really is, though.
I agree. According to my higher level calculations 997 is only 99.7% of 1000
Nope and 1,000 yard season for a WR/TE in the NFL don’t mean nearly as much as they used to in the pass-happy NFL.
26 WRs/TEs put up 1,000+ yard seasons last year.
3 years ago – 21 players did it
5 years ago – 17 players did it
10 years ago – 20 players did it
How many of them were third round rookies?
Good question and I would have to look. I would bet only 20-25% of them were 3rd round or later round pics.
Lol, maybe not as much but it still does mean something significant.
You are 100% downgrading his impact. Look at what our other receivers did last year.
Your little 3 year demonstration really didnt do anything to prove your point. So 3 years ago ONE more receiver did it then 10 years ago. Then last year 6 more players did it then 10 years ago. Is that really a significant increase for you to make some type of rational from it. Then 10 years ago 3 more players did it then 5 years ago.
It can very well be argued that your display actually counteracts your case if you consider the tremendous rookie class that was drafted in 2014 in which im sure many of them are in that 26.
Lol, that he is a productive WR, and clearly the best on the team.
Would you say the same about Colston when he was young, because both are pretty similar?
So our WR position will be absolutely desolate? Granted i do like Randel, but losing Mathews plus having Randel is a step below last year.
I would feel really bad for any QB, especially a rookie to throw to those WRs. That is something that could help kill a young QBs confidence.
Why would we trade a productive 1000 yard receiver on a cheap, rookie deal for a 3rd rounder? A 1st rounder isn’t even guaranteed to be a productive starter (see: Agholor); I understand wanting to get younger and trading expensive veterans for picks in order to rebuild, but this makes zero sense. Why create another hole for ourselves and have a 30-40% hit rate in the 3rd round for a guy that is already established as our best receiver?
if we’re lucky we’d get someone almost as good and cheap
Chances are you wont be that lucky. Your statement really puzzles me. Trade him for a 3rd to get a player that is hopefully ALMOST as good. Lol wtf.
Your are aware the Mathews is still pretty cheap since he is still on his rookie contract, correct?
might’ve missed the sarcasm there, buddy.
85-1000 in a down year >>>>>>>>3rd round pick.
If the team wanted to move on, I wouldn’t agree, but at least get the proper value.
I don’t get this, Matthews is the only mediocre WR on this roster. All the others (besides new acquisitions) are garbage-tier?
For a wide receiver who can’t catch very well, Matthews has put up impressive numbers. His ceiling could be pretty huge if he learns to catch.
Man, people seriously overrate draft picks.
How many games would a grumpy Bradford win?
from gimpy to grumpy
As many as a happy Bradford? Maybe more.
The only good thing about Bradford last year is that he took some brave hits. An unhappy Bradford would probably pull a Jeff George and whuss out on those.
I am hoping that he is the type of player that may be unhappy but once the game juices are flowing that is all forgotten about. Unfortunately, with the way he is handling this situation i am really starting to question his mental toughness.
“You don’t need no 100million dollar Wide Recievers. Even tho I’m a WR, even I know the formula to win. You need a QB(Sam), you need a defense, and then you need to protect the QB, and I think we have all that”-Pope Jordan Mathews… Wonder how his agent feels about that statement lol
no big deal.
we still have a qb. etc…
and pope should get his $100 million
I’ll be at the bank with a broom when he cashes his check. Somebody has to sweep all those dollars off the floor.
‘Pope Jordan’ is one of the worst Eagles’ player nicknames of recent history.
GE quote from March 2016:
‘You can’t tell me that Eagles will start their season with Bradford, Daniel and 1st round rookie QB on their roster…’
Mmmmh, we shall see if he was right.
And we thought that fellow was a madman. Turns out he is a genius.
Aren’t all mad people blessed with a grain of genius?!
My wife said that’s just what we mad people tell ourselves.
http://www.bevmo.com/media/catalog/product//1/2/12007.jpg
Chip didnt seem to be. Wish the saying worked out with that scenario.
So I haven’t really been active much recently. Been taking some time off. We actually had to put our dog down late Friday evening so I am kind of getting some of the recent news in spurts. First of all, Bradford is demanding a trade? What a baby… I even liked Bradford, but where does this sense of entitlement come from? I also heard there were whispers of Sproles being traded during the draft? Why in the world would we leak that type of information? Doesn’t seem to be true.
However if that information is true… I think my fiance’s head will explode. I know many probably won’t care but it is almost surreal at this point. First of all, Sproles is her favorite player on our team. Her favorite musician…? Prince (she teaches dance and has been a dancer her whole life). That coupled with the fact that we had to put down our dog Friday evening. This will probably be by far the worst two weeks of her life. We do not have any children, and that dog was like our child. I think it was actually worse for me, as I work from home– my apologies for the sappy story. I know I will probably have some “man up” comments but I don’t really care. There is not much to talk about right now except silly rumors.
I think if we could get some decent value for Bradford and/or Barwin, I would probably pull the trigger. It doesn’t look like our draft will really produce any instant starters or role players this year. I just don’t see us getting anything worthwhile for Sproles. He is way more valuable to our team than a measly 5th or 6th.
I don’t get why Bradford doesn’t have “value.” He is a full year off his ACL injury and whatever team would be trading for him would have a solid starter at 7M this year… We paid 13M, a 2nd rounder, and Foles for him last year… I know Chip didn’t know anything about value, but clearly he browns were ready to give up a 1st for him last year. I would definitely pull the trigger on a late first/second this year, or a first next year from some team. The Jets, Broncos, and Browns still don’t have a QB and is Paxton Lynch, Hackenburg, or Dak really better than Bradford? Fitz is 33 so no one will commit to him.
I’m sorry mate.
Likely it’s not “we” (meaning the Eagles), it’s the agents leaking the info.
Very sorry for your loss Nick.
Much appreciated:)
I second that, its the worst part. Still waiting to get another dog and its been a few years now
Sorry to hear about your dog. As a fellow dog lover, I will definitely mourn hard when my dog passes.
I also hope the Sproles rumor is false – good player and would make our already thin RB situation worse
Really doubt its true. We are already light on RB, and Mathews is talented but made of glass. Sproles just adds to much play making ability for this team on a team that lacks a play making offensive player. He is also reportedly a very high level locker room guy. During regime changes you really need guys with that type of character.
Plus, i dont see the Eagles getting anything that is worth it for Sproles. A 5th or 6th probably. My head would blow up if he were traded for that.
Pederson also seems to like pass catching RBs in which Sproles is arguably still one of the most if not most dangerous in the league.
Sorry for your loss. And I share the hope that the team sticks with Sproles.
Sorry for your loss. Anybody who tells you to man up simply hasn’t felt the unconditional love of a dog.
Do people really say things like that? Wow.
Yeah, its unfortunate.Not really so much here, but there are monsters on other sites. Read PFTs comments and your mind will be blown. Makes you want to reach through your computer and just physically strangle the person/people making some of the insane heartless comments.
sorry for your loss. I’ve said to my wife, no one will ever love me like our dog. It’s insane. I feel for you, hang in there.
maybe spend more time here arguing/complaining about things you have no control over (the Eagles) will make you feel better.
That’s the plan. Yeah nothing is like the love I gave to that dog and got in return. It has been damn near unbearable. Hopefully she can pull some strings upstairs for all of us. We all have been suffering long enough!
maybe at some point you both can get another one.
After having one dog die in my arms from being hit by a car and taking the second to be put down, I wasn’t sure I had it in me to get another. But the good times make it more than worth the pain…eventually. Hang in there.
It is never easy. Had to do it last year. Two weeks ago we lost our cat to the “wilderness”, aka a coyote. The worst part was telling our daughter who had said cat her whole life.
Losing a pet is an awful experience. Hopefully she gave you many years of love and enjoyment. So long as she lived a full life there’s not much more you can ask for.
Sorry for your loss,.. But I can’t even imagine what will happen when I lose my dogs. im gonna be so crushed I can’t even think about it
Sorry for the loss of the dog. That is always a bad scene.
I’m truly sorry for your loss. I have two dogs myself, and they are like our children.
Coley looks to me like he lacks the strength necessary to play interior line in the NFL.
when’s Foles going to demand his trade?
Bradford for Foles and a 3rd. Make it happen Howie!
…and later in the day it will be reported that the initial reports were wrong, we actually gave them the 3rd rounder.
too soon. It will always be too soon.
Chip’s not here anymore so no fear.
Maybe signing sam was part of the plan. Trading him after this year for a second or third may make the price of moving bad less – bad. Would we ever consider moving chase daniel?
no ones trading for chase daniel
I brought the issue that I was a bit perplexed on why the Eagles resigned Bradford & Daniel investing so much in the QB position and then made the trade for No 2 pick to get Wentz late last week. Struck me as what Kelly did with the RB position last offseason.
I would have preferred they rebuilt this year instead and were willing to take a step back or two winning 4-6 games instead of trying to creep into the playoffs at 9-7.
Now it has blown up in their face and they have lost even more leverage if they try to move Bradford before the draft. Ugh.
Winning begets winning. Losing begets losing.
Every player on the team would disagree with you. Teams want to build a winning culture, not a losing culture. This isn’t a 5 person team like basketball that can be turned around with a few players.
I have always thought that was a largely bad (and untruthful) sports cliche especially in the NFL where you have so much annual roster turnover & non-guaranteed contracts.
I would have to disagree.
Look at the Cincinnati Bengals of the 1990s. They had a culture of losing and were often called the Bungels for a reason. They had no winning seasons for 12 straight years. Marvin Lewis was hired and turned the culture around. Granted, they have yet to succeed in the playoffs, but 10 to 12 wins per year are now the norm and they have had only 3 losing seasons in the past 13 years.
On the flip side, look at the Browns. They have average 4.5 wins per year since expansion gave them a franchise again in 1999. They have had 2 winning seasons and 26 starting QBs since McNabb was drafted. Their last winning season was 2007.
You must change the culture of a losing organization to that of a winning one to break the losing cycle.
holding open tryouts is a good start.
Okay, how about if we forget the philosophical and culture stuff? If you are an agent, are you telling your young free agent to take a similar offer from the Cowboys – a team that is always trying to win and getting national exposure – or the Texans – who might get one prime time national game a year while trying to build? Teams with losing cultures have to pay more for free agents and get lower priority URFAs.
Absent a QB who can, at a minimum, manage the offense, what you are describing strikes me as a huge insult to JP and Kelce and Fletcher Cox and MJ. These are all players who leave it all on the field, and if the franchise chooses to start a back-up QB or, worse, a rookie, the players drafted as pieces of the “rebuild” would likely find themselves in a cynical, possibly contentious locker room. Parity is a hallmark and the bane of the NFL, except for a few teams who have game-changers under center. Whether the rookie QB pans out or not, it is hard to argue with the logic that informed the move up. As for the cost, HR can offset that in his sleep. In two years we’ll either be in an enviable position with a franchise QB, or we’ll be back to our good-but-not-great
status quo, battling for a division title, and tripping up in the playoffs.
Given the level of play from Kelce last year; he can feel free to eat some insults until that improves.
last two years really
No argument here.
I think you have delivered a few hot and spicy ones, but I don’t think it has been for a lack of effort. I will not offer an excuse for our center, but I do wonder if he was not injured and playing through it, or perhaps just overwhelmed by the lack of consistency that flanked him. I don’t argue with your basis for criticizing, though.
Nothing has blown up, Bob… At least not yet. Sammy has had a few too many concussions, apparently, but otherwise really nothing has changed.
I dont see how we can compare with what Chip did with the RBs to our QB situation.
One is an undervalued position, the other the most important of all sports. Our newest QB addition is going to be a rookie. Our newest addition last year was a RB that was worn out from the year prior and demanded a horrible contract.
And no matter what they say, there was evidence against them. Locker room attendant Jim McNally, who called himself “the Deflator,” illegally took the balls into a bathroom before the 2015 AFC Championship Game, then denied taking them into the bathroom, then admitted he did but said he used the urinal. There is no urinal.
hadn’t seen this (didn’t follow too closely), but that looks….odd? incriminating?
It definitely seems odd that the men’s room in a stadium doesn’t have a urinal, but I am going to trust the investigators. They probably checked.
sometimes i use the men’s room on the way into the office. i leave my bag outside.
going into the bathroom and deflating like 15 footballs in 90 seconds has to be kind of stressful.
you always take your balls into the mens room
Andrew Brandt brings up a good point, now maybe with the win the NFL will cut a deal with Brady and lessen the suspension. I hope not.
Brady has a lot to lose reputation wise if he serves any time in a suspension for cheating. As of now he’s still had deniability, I don’t think he’s going to let go of it and admit to anything.
well I don’t think he’s going to get an injunction pending hearing before the Supreme Court, and likely also won’t get picked to be heard before the SC, so the money line right now is he serves at least one game. I think the NFL can’t cut a deal with Brady where he serves no time.
Why would they do that? To genuflect at the feet of the superstar?
Brady has no reputation left amongst anybody who was paying attention
Wonder if he had to be away from the facility for a month, do the Patriots have a new ring to hand out this season?
yes their AFC East ring.
Brady is 100% welcome to admit his role in covering up the whole deal and I’m sure they could discuss a reduction.
BUT HE MUST HUMBLE HIMSELF FIRST
SHAME!! SHAME!!! SHAME!!
Exactly.
Sister Goodell can be a little . . . overzealous.
That is true, but Brady really needs to be brought low.
Best scene in GoT history
*rings bell*
genuflect and kiss the shield.
F that. If I were the commissioner, I would work out a deal with Brady and have him go out there and fall on his sword, and then leave him with the 4 game suspension. And then I might state how I wished I had made it 8 games instead.
All the league really wants is the legal system to recognize Goodell’s power under the CBA do to whatever he wants in terms of player discipline. That’ll keep the players from bringing cases to court for longer than a summary dismissal until the next CBA.
Yeah, I agree. And that is why Brady’s actions were so cynical and selfish.
So to turn that around, CBS is out some money if they’re missing their 3 games of Brady to start the year. One of those games is co-hosted by NFL network. Their other one is a Sunday night game on NBC.
I hate to be a cynic, but there would be some financial pressure put on the league by the networks for Goodell to reduce the suspension if Brady humbles himself.
After he blatantly defied the league’s request for his phone, and went public, claiming his right to privacy, and the obvious fabrications about the trainers acting on their own…I doubt that there is one owner who would be alright with that (other than Kraft). I still a cannot get over a judge in a court of law stating that the league overstepped its authority when it deduced Brady’s complicity and subsequent lying. It was never about the ball inflation – if he just played dumb and said he was sorry, he’d have been spared, imo. But the denial, refusal to co-operate, and than getting the NFLPA to drag this into court…I don’t expect Goodell to be in any mood to revisit this.
Bingo. It was a cut and dried case of contract law, and the judge was WAY out of bounds deciding the case based on what he thought was “fair.” And then almost the entirety of the media got behind the free Brady movement and it was all downhill from there. Kind of like how everything goes in modern day culture, politics, and public policy: the media and various loudmouths decide what is “fair,” and the dopey public falls in line. #SAD
This whole fiasco had me trying to imagine something analogous. I couldn’t. Where else would you see somebody sullying the image of a financial behemoth, violating the latter’s trust, and then when caught, looking for constitutional protection? If I understood the NFLPA’s line of defense, it was that there was no cited language that explicitly stated that a player must cooperate with an investigation that can implicate him. Drug testing, for example, is defined and explained in the contract, and players have no wiggle room. So because the contract does not address specifically the punishment for intentionally deflating footballs below a designated threshold, it cannot therefore expect a player to cooperate with an arbitrary request. Possession is 9/10’s of the law, and the NFL owns the game it purveys. How does Robert Kraft not get this?
He’s another one… Riling up the public, and demanding an apology from the NFL – the height of audacity and indignity. He assumes we’re all stupid (and apparently many of us are). How he has any credibility left with the other owners, I’ll never be able to tell you.
I never understood the players’ position in all of this… A guy gets caught cheating red-handed, and his fellow players all rally around in his defense? I mean, I get that they hate Goodell in his role as judge, jury, and executioner, and that as a lot they’re not very bright, but how misguided can you be??!
Doubt it. Goodell is probably out to make a point with this one.
Goodell should go full heel at the draft and do the following.
After walking out with Vince McMahon and Triple H announce;
“With the 30th pick in the NFL draft, the New England Patriots select………..NOBODY BECAUSE I TOOK THE PICK FROM YOU CHEATERS…………….AND TOM BRADY CAN SUCK IT”
I would instantly love him for that. It is, after all, an entertainment company. They always want to act like football is a Serious Thing that Deserves Respect.
oh you mean THE SHIELD (TM)
meh
This report has made enough noise to make Howie give an exclusive interview today addressing the situation, nothing new, just repeated his previous stance on Sam
Who got the exclusive, and now is in Howie’s pocket?
The interview was already scheduled with CSN for a draft preview. It just happened to be scheduled to be done an hour after the Sam news broke. No exclusive interview was granted but CSN obviously felt the breaking news was worth asking Howie about Sam’s trade request.
Is it me or is Howie in media a lot more than when chip was here?
Howie loves to be in the limelight, he loved having a weekly radio show, has always been happy to talk to the press and give access.
Chip felt the media was an intrusive and disruptive force so tried to shut them out as much as possible and that limited the contact that the entire team gave to the media.
I prefer Howie’s method.
True. With that being said thought i do have to admit i really enjoyed the dick head sarcastic remarks Chip would give to the media early in his tenure with us.
That makes more sense. I was having trouble picturing Howie giving one reporter the exclusive denial of the report. That seemed spiteful.
Did he confirm that Bradford and his camp did indeed put in a trade request? If not did he do anything to denounce the report?
With Bradford gone I am all for Eagles doubling down on QBs in this year’s draft, drafting at least two QBs. Thanks.
Wentz and Goff? We offer LA #2 and Cox. Then when they accept, we send them some poo and rubber sex toys. Bingo, we have the top two picks.
Trade the rest of our picks the next 3 years and have both #1 AND #2! Brilliant!
That is the crackhead version of when the Jets took both Joe Namath (first round) and John Huarte (2nd round) with their top two picks.
(Refresh, I edited with an explanation as soon as I posted. Sorry.)
On Coley, that is, without question, the biggest #11 I have ever seen.
Related to the topic, and I apologize for the absurdly incomplete info, did anyone see a report about a player getting turned down for a 5th year of eligibility and declaring for the draft just this weekend? I think he was listed as a TE/OT. Should we have any interest? Is he the next JP?
Rico Gathers the Baylor hoops player who wants to try the NFL? He was a very good college basketball player. Hasn’t played organized football since he was 14. Only played hoops in HS and college.
Drew Ott, DL from Iowa
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/04/13/ncaa-denies-drew-otts-waiver-request-making-him-a-late-entry-to-the-draft/
Yeah, I left that way too broad. I found him:
LSU TE Dillon Gordon declared for the NFL Draft on Friday.
Gordon did so after the NCAA denied his medical hardship request, which would have granted him a fifth year of eligibility. The 6-foot-5, 308-pounder is a TE/OT tweener who almost assuredly won’t get drafted but will be in a camp this summer via a UDFA contract. Apr. 25 – 7:15 pm et. (Rotoworld)
To get past
– Goodell is the man, eat it Brady.
– Bradford ain’t going nowhere……….unless we get a good offer
I’m really excited to be back in a real D. Having our D line 1 gap and get after evil doers is going to be great.
Given Schwartz’a track record, this D should be fun. I’m extra excited to see what Bennie Logan can do in this system. He was more of a 4-3 guy when they drafted him anyway, but he did a nice job growing into the nose role. I can’t wait to see what he does this year.
If he doesn’t show until mandatory otas, does this cause a problem in the locker room? Especially since he was chillin with Ertz/Matthews this offseason?
Not in my opinion. The shorts and T-shirt stuff isn’t a favorite of most vets.
Now if he shows up out of shape for some live snaps, we might have an issue.
My biggest worry is that with Bradford I thought we could get 8-9 wins. With Chase I think it’s 5. If our pick is in the top 10 next year, I will be using curse words as commas for a whole year.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. I thought you were asking about Bennie missing camps.
I don’t think Bradford sitting out the mini camps is a big deal. These dudes all know the game is a business and management totally doesn’t give a crap about the team. As long as Bradford shows up ready to work when he has to, they’ll be fine.
LOL. Yeah. Logan will be there ready to put in work. I’m sure the whole defense will be excited to get back to work with a better coordinator in a 4-3.
And this time we’ll have a guy who understands how to mesh the occasional wide 9 stuff with the back 7.
Not only that but we have the players to handle it behind the line.
I do think the first few games the LBs might not look to hot, specifically Kendricks and Hicks. They have been used to the DL protecting them and keeping the OL from having minimal contact with them. At times this will be a complete 180 from that. They have the talent, I just hope they have the tenacity, technique and strength to deal with it. Kendricks specifically worries me. He has many a time over ran a play which could be disastrous in this D. Furthermore, at times he will really have to maintain discipline and stay in his gap.
“… management totally doesn’t give a crap about the team?”
What do you mean?
Not
For
Long
Management / Ownership in the NFL has zero sentiment to them. The exact second you can’t perform at the level they want, they come at your neck for a pay cut or cut you outright. The contracts are completely in the favor of the team. The smart guys don’t get all worked up about it(as opposed to guys with the “slavery” comments during the lockeout), but they don’t begrudge a guy for trying to work every possible angle to maximize his compensation.
Getting worked up over guys trying leverage plays vs the team is a fan issue. I’m irked at this Bradford report and hope Howie does every thing he can to resolve in the best way for the team, but I don’t think any of Sam’s teammates are that worked up.
Ok, that makes sense, mostly. I wouldn’t put it quite so darkly in terms of mgmt vs players, but I do agree that players see it for what it is.
I think some of the teams do a lot for their ex-players, but then you have guys like Jerry Richardson who have a complete and total contempt towards labor.
Is he an owner? What team?
Panthers owner. He was the singularly most offensive person involved in the lockout. If you look up some of his quotes you’d be thankful you don’t work for him and I hope you don’t work for somebody like him.
Cant think of his name, but the owner of the Bengals is up there too. Is it Mike Brown? I think its something Brown.
Why? That pick is already gone. If we dont have a great record we move up in every single round.
It’s principalities.
https://youtu.be/zPCFmkQnuTc?t=26s
Remind me to keep your screen name handy if we’re ever looking for a serial killer. You’re very rationally detached. Washington fans told us we’re allowed to obsess about picks we traded away that wind up being very good picks.
Curse words for commas. Great phrase. I know people who talk that way.
Lol, not saying he has ever been out of shape while in the NFL, but he just always looks out of shape. If you showed me a picture of him and asked me to guess what sport he plays i would immediately say Golf.
His body reminds me of Napolean Dynamites body.
Doubt the team will really harbor any true and lingering resentment, and will probably be happy when he returns.
I was all set to trade down in the 3rd round (and pick one offer that was fair on the point value chart), but Westerman was too good to pass up. Glasgow is going to be the RT. Feeney gives me the size I want long term at SAM. Holmes is here to be a DE. Smallwood goes into the RB rotation right away (Bye Bye Barner), and Jefferson should inherit the Hart or Allen spot on the 53 man roster.
Round 1 Pick 2: Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State (A+)
Round 3 Pick 16: Christian Westerman, OG, Arizona State (A+)
Round 5 Pick 14: Graham Glasgow, OG, Michigan (A)
Round 5 Pick 25: Travis Feeney, OLB/ILB, Washington (B+)
Round 6 Pick 13: Tyrone Holmes, OLB, Montana (C+)
Round 7 Pick 12: Wendell Smallwood, RB, West Virginia (C+)
Round 7 Pick 30: Quinton Jefferson, DT, Maryland (B-)
Glasgow can’t play T. He’s a C/G.
NFL Network’s Jeff Darlington reports Sam Bradford would “potentially” be required to surrender “up to 25 percent of his signing bonus” if he held out more than five days of training camp.
Eagles VP of Football Operations Howie Roseman was confident on Monday that Bradford would show up for the mandatory portions of the offseason program despite reportedly putting in a trade request, and this report could help
explain why. Despite Bradford being “hot” about the Eagles trade up to
No. 2, Philadelphia seems set on keeping him around. The Eagles gave
Bradford an $11 million signing bonus in March.
Is this type of clawback standard? If not howie looks even smarter than before (when i said he was dumb).
I think the forfeiting of bonus money started to get written into more contracts after Vick went to jail over the dog fighting.
Do you think Howie highlighted pages of Bradford’s contract and the CBA and sent them to Condon?
passed them around when Sammy came to his office today.
Howie needs to put on a brave face on it if he is going to get any quality value trading Bradford. So regardless of his intention (to trade or to keep Bradford) he would say the same things meaning his comments are kind of meaningless. I think the Eagles are happy to keep him unless a quality offer comes in (high 2nd or more worth of value).
My gut reaction is a team (Jets or Broncos) has approached Bradford agent and said that if Bradford agitates for a move then they would trade him for a 4th round pick. Bradford’s agent thinks this is a better situation to get a long term starting spot and feels that the eagles will accept to clear QB log jam and save $7mil in cap at least.
However Cordon has misread the situation somewhat and Howie has come back strong by blocking any ability to formally seek a trade, meaning teams have to come to him directly and the agent can do less to set the market and price.
Think so much will depend on draft day. If QB’s fly off early – Browns take Lynch at 8, someone takes Cook in the teens, and Hackenberg gets picked up by a Chiefs/Cardinals and suddenly Bradford has a lot more value. If cook/Lynch slide into reach of Jets/Broncos suddenly Bradford has little to no value.
Does anyone know if Bradord officially 100% put in a trade request, or i this simply reporters twisting things around taking advantage of the situation.
Who was the first to report it, and was it confirmed by other reports? While it is 100% believable and possible I just dont truly trust it until it is confirmed by a source such as Schefter if it hasnt already.
At least Sammy now has all the time in the world to hit the gym hard and work on those sleeves.
How many QB’s do people think go in the 1st round?
I think Lynch does not make it out of the top 16 (D Jeremiah has him going 12 to Saints which i think would be a lovely fit for him and would help them prepare for the post Brees future).
After that things get complicated but i think both Cook and Hackenberg do not make it to day 2 by the time that is all done.
If the Eagles are willing to entertain trading Bradford then how many go and where in the draft will have a big impact on his value.
Will make for an interesting evening and something to focus on once we get our pick at no.2
Whatever you smoked to think that Hackenberg could go in the first round must be the most potent stuff ever.
that was mean
John Gruden agrees with him, for better or worse.
There has been rumors that some of the later 1st round teams really like him. Think that given time he can be a reclamation project that can work out. Now maybe it is crap but different draftniks and reporters have been suggesting it.
The only teams that would possibly consider him would be the Chiefs and the Cardinals. Even then I can’t see them reaching that desperately for a project QB since those are playoff teams that need immediate talent to try to get over the hump.
I wouldnt be surprised if Lynch goes in the top 20, and i wouldnt be shocked if he were to go later 1st or early 2nd.
Hackenberg will not go in first.
Tom Condon on Sirius radio
https://twitter.com/JamieThomasTV/status/724752890330550272
https://twitter.com/JamieThomasTV/status/724753406066352132
https://twitter.com/JamieThomasTV/status/724753778793189377
Sammy B wants to be the guy? Play like one. Pretty damn simple.
Sam’s rookie contract was a burden on the Rams when he got injured. He was unwilling to renegotiate after the 2nd ACL tear. That is why the Rams wanted to trade him.
Sam and Condon I’m sure would have signed a long-term contract with the Eagles that again guaranteed his contract in years 4, 5, and 6. His injury history prohibited that for the Eagles.
All the 2-year deal meant to Condon that he would be able to exploit the Eagles again in 2 years. The Eagles obviously didn’t want to deal with that again.
If Sam wanted to be the long-term answer here, all he had to do was sign a long-term incentive-laden contract in case of poor performance or major injury.
I am sure they would have signed a 6 year guaranteed deal. But no one would have offered that deal to Tom Brady or Rogers, let alone Bradford.
The 2 year duration was Bradfords decision, not the Eagles. Eagles would have added on as many years at $20mil he wanted. But Bradford wanted to bet on himself and keep his options open so asked for a 2 year deal (there is no reason why the Eagles would not have added on more years – would have made cap space and given more long term stability if Bradford played well).
All of Condon’s QB clients sign 5 or 6 deals that are fully guaranteed, just not in the same way other contracts are.
Condon doesn’t let his QB clients sign pay as you go contracts. His QB contracts have such large dead money hits in years 4, 5, and sometimes year 6, that his clients contracts basically are guaranteed for 5 or 6 years.
This is evident by the Drew Brees contract that in year 5 has $30M cap hit and $20M in dead money if cut. Although Brees signed a 5 year deal with $40M guaranteed, he was actually guaranteed the full $100M because of salary cap ramifications.
Brees contract is a mess due to their cap situation. His first 6 year contract with the saints only had 8mil in SB.
In 2012 they were already hard against the cap and they squeezed his deal in with a huge signing bonus so that they did not need to gut the roster to get him resigned to try for another Super Bowl run. Then it got worse again with further restructures.
They signed his contract because that’s the way Condon structured it. Brees had dead money over $20M every year of his contract. This was done by design of Condon so Brees could not be cut.
Not discounting what you said, but the situation with Brees is different. That team was in cap trouble (still is) and that required him to restructure his contract to push the cap hits (and dead money with it) into subsequent years.
Chicken and egg argument. Some would say they were in cap trouble partially due to Brees’ last contract. They are talking about giving him an extension again because his $30M cap hit is killing the team again.
Regardless, Condon contracts push the limits of a team’s cap space. Sam’s is no different, even though it’s only 2 years.
I think Howie is trying to get away from Sam’s contract demands just as much as wanting a rookie to groom.
Well any hope the rumor wasnt true ia kut the window
How did Sam and his agent not see this coming when pretty much everyone agreed the Birds would much more likely then not shoot for a QB in the draft?
Even before FA started everyone was saying how he was going to be a stop gap QB.
It amazes me that Sam and his agent seem shocked and angered by this. Could they really be that blinded from reality?
maybe Howie sent Matthews and Ertz to blind him?
The new contract pretty much spoke for itself. If Bradford thought that it was another prove it deal then he’s lucky that he already suckered the Rams.
Maybe Condon thought there would be no way we could jump all the way to #2 to grab a qb?
There has been talk all off season that Wentz or Goff could possibly fall to 8, or even get to 5 or 6 in which then we could have made a move.
Right. But there was always an equal chance that both be gone before #8. This trade eliminated any possibility of that. Hence the current situation.
Big difference between a 3rd round QB and trading a draft for a QB.
There was a time when it was very possible for Wentz of Goff to fall closer to 8, or maybe even 8. It should not seem farfetched to Bradford by any means. Almost everyone had them going QB if Wentz or Goff came close to 8 or hit 8.
Besides that there were other very obvious points that most of us interpreted correctly. Such as how his contract was set up.
There was no consensus we’d go QB until the trade came off. A lot of people thought we’d take a flyer. This is different.
Not that I agree with Sam’s strategy here. You’re getting paid a lot of money. If you want to be the man, kick some ass and make it impossible to play the rook.
Maybe not a full consensus but by far enough was out there that him and his agent should not be surprised at all
Really? I’m shocked myself, I thought the escalating talk of moving up for one of these jokers was crazy.
Funny to me that Chase Daniel is making CD money and Eagles wants literally nothing to do with him starting. He’s making more than some starters did last year.
Just listened to the Tom Condon interview on the way home from work. Those tweets don’t do it justice at all. Basically Sam Bradford wants to go somewhere where they’ll give him the job and he can be ‘the man’.
It was beyond infuriating. I can’t believe how weak Bradford is if he can’t take competition in stride, all the while being paid money that 99.99% of people won’t see in a lifetime.
Yeah, I always thought Bradford took more heat than he deserved, but this is pretty disappointing.
It’s pathetic.
Maybe Sam should talk to JJ Watt who famously said, “Success isn’t owned. It’s leased, and rent is due every day.”
Sort of agree
I think by him simply asking for the trade insinuated all of that. It really is pathetic. He says he wants to prove that he is a franchise QB yet is unwilling to go up against a rookie QB to prove that he is indeed a franchise QB.
It makes me think that he isnt too confident in his ability.
I was really hoping that this would be a Rivers/Brees situation, I wasnt expecting Bradford to turn into Brees, but at least play at a high enough level that the Birds have to have an inner debate over whether or not they should get rid of him at the end of this year.
Looking at teams that need a QB, we have the following:
Jets, Bill and Broncos – don’t have any cap room for his $7M salary this year. The only way he could go to these teams would be to take a pay cut.
That only leaves the Browns and the 49ers who could afford his salary.
Jets and Broncos could restructure stuff to make it fit. $7mil is not a burden to fit under the cap, and getting long term deals done with their franchise players would make it pretty easily resolved as well.
Do not see the Bills as a player but then who knows with that front office.
I wonder if Bradford would be cool going to San Francisco……..Man he’s a CHUMP. He’s walking out on teammates and coaches who had nothing to do with this trade, so he can’t really call himself a leader. Something tough comes your way, you fold and wanna run? If everyone quit when their eventual replacement was drafted, we’d barely field a team. I’d rather him be so pissed off, he tried to prove them wrong by playing lights out football. His attitude makes him his own worst enemy. Please find a home for him soon.