Top 10 Talk

Posted: April 17th, 2016 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 305 Comments »

After talking to some people and doing more thinking, I’m afraid Jared Goff is going to be the Rams  pick at #1. I was hoping there would be some way he would get to the Eagles, but I don’t think that is going to happen.

Here is a guess at the Top 10.

1 – STL – QB Jared Goff
2 – CLE – DB Jalen Ramsey
3 – SD – DL DeForest Buckner
4 – DAL – RB Ezekiel Elliott
5 – JAX – LB Myles Jack
6 – BAL – OT Laremy Tunsil
7 – SF – DE Joey Bosa
8- PHI – QB Carson Wentz

I struggled with the Niners pick. They could easily take Wentz. Their QB position is not exactly set.

Colin Kaepernick
Blaine Gabbert
Thad Lewis
Dylan Thompson

I’m just not sure I can see Chip Kelly wanting to spend a Top 10 pick on a small school QB. I know Trent Baalke is the GM and controls the draft, but I’m not sure he would force an early QB on a coach who wasn’t totally in on the pick. There is also the question of trying to get immediate impact. Do Baalke and Kelly have the job security to draft a player who wouldn’t be likely to help them this season?

It might seem crazy to imagine Wentz falling all the way to 8, but this is a strange draft class at the top. Usually you don’t have so many teams that are set at QB.

If the Eagles feel strongly about Wentz and want to make sure they get him, they should either talk to CLE, SD or JAX about moving up. This is where Howie Roseman will need to have a good feel for what the other teams will do.

If Wentz is gone, I think the Eagles will go CB Vernon Hargreaves. I do not think Paxton Lynch will be in play with pick number 8.

*****

The Eagles have shown interest in Listenbee.

6-0, 197
4.39 at the Combine
30-597-5 (2015 stats)

That’s a terrific size-speed combination. He was a big play machine at TCU, averaging almost 20 yards per catch for his career.

The Eagles could use someone with that kind of speed.

Beyond speed, Listenbee is a good downfield receiver. He tracks the ball well and is comfortable catching it on the run. I think he could go as early as the 3rd round.

*****

I posted some draft notes over at ScoutsNotebook.

_


305 Comments on “Top 10 Talk”

  1. 1 Top 10 Talk - said at 9:40 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    […] Tommy Lawlor After talking to some people and doing more thinking, I’m afraid Jared Goff is going to be […]

  2. 2 Charlie Kelly said at 9:45 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    idk

    the brows skipping QB

    cowboys taking a RB

    SF taking bosa

    not really all in line with what the national consensus seems to be

  3. 3 TommyLawlor said at 10:11 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    Guesses on my part.

    We’ll see.

  4. 4 Rockedupeaglesfan said at 8:24 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Isn’t Bosa pure 4-3? He’s not a 2 gap lineman and he’s too stiff to stand and drop

  5. 5 Jack Waggoner said at 10:28 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    Reasonable as any mock. And these guesses change in the media a lot every year.

    I think Jack could drop due to knee injury. The rumor is that some teams don’t want him for that reason.

  6. 6 wee2424 said at 11:47 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    Possible, but from all reports his knee is supposedly rehabbing extremely well.

  7. 7 Media Mike said at 5:39 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Don’t discount that “rumor” coming from teams in the back end of the top 10 who really want him to drop to them.

  8. 8 Forthebirds said at 10:37 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    If he is injured he moves up on Chip’s board, assuming be has a say.

  9. 9 wee2424 said at 11:45 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    I can 100% see the Cowboys taking Elliot. Jones probably wants nothing else then to tie his OL to a good RB and help alleviate pressure off of Romo.

    Browns are the dark horse. I can easily see them going QB. Their recent failures at drafting QBs may make them gun shy. Possibly choose to build their team up and then add a QB at a future point, or cross their fingers and hope RG3 does a 180.

    I just dont see Bosa fitting Kellys preferred D.

  10. 10 Ankerstjernen said at 3:49 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    It is an exciting thought though. I almost find it more likely that browns, cowboys or SF will trade down, if Wentz is there for them and they decide they dont want him. With each other or with the eagles. Or a surprise team like the Bears or Jets could make a splash on draft day in a huge trade. Him just falling to #8 almost seems too good to be true given his reported potential/high ceiling.

  11. 11 Mr. Magee said at 4:04 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Exactly

  12. 12 Media Mike said at 5:38 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I agree Bosa to San Fran is a tad off. I’m reading he’s really only a 4-3 player, but they could easily take Stanley there if you don’t like Bosa.

    Browns skipping a QB is 100% on the table. Nobody outside of that owner has any real control over the pick and that owner LOVES RG3. He fired his front office from the 2012 draft because they failed to get the QB he coveted. He reached for Manziel because he wanted an RG3 type. It is possible he hired Hue Jackson on the precondition that he makes a strong go at reviving RG3.

    Dallas taking Elliot is also a strong possibility. I don’t see Elliot as a top 10 talent, but a ton of media people have been banging the table for him. If you want to know what Dallas thinks of him, try to follow what Gil Brandt says about him. I know Bill Pollian called him the best player in the draft as well. Dallas wants premium running back production, but not premium running back salary. Elliot, in their minds, could give them that.

  13. 13 Forthebirds said at 10:50 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    If Cleveland doesn’t take a QB, I can see the Eagles trading up to grab Wentz or Goeff. There is little pressure on Peterson to make the playoffs this year, so he can afford to let either sit. I think the Cowturds would either one if he fell to them. They need to groom Romo”s replacement and they can find good RBs later in the draft.

  14. 14 Charlie Kelly said at 4:22 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    yeah i just read about browns skipping QB

  15. 15 Media Mike said at 4:25 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I’m still of a mind that Haslem is so in love with RG3 that he’s going to give him at least a year.

  16. 16 Charlie Kelly said at 4:45 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    typical browns, they think they can now wait for another chance at top rated QBs lol id be pissed if i was a browns fan

  17. 17 Donald Kalinowski said at 10:28 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I can’t imagine Tunsil falling to #4 and not having some team trade up for him.

  18. 18 Aaron said at 10:17 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    i want elliott

  19. 19 P_P_K said at 8:34 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Let me buy you a beer. But we might be the only guys in the bar.

  20. 20 Tumtum said at 10:27 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    So I have seen this question posed a few times. Never seen the answer. Where do Goff and Wentz stack up compared to future top 10 QBs. Obviously not RG3 and Luck level of hype. Has it reached Stafford level? Between that and Flacco / Ryan?

  21. 21 RC5000 said at 10:30 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    Here’s a viewpoint on that: Cho time posted in last thread.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/qbase-2016

  22. 22 daveH said at 10:30 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    I asked my football expert bud and he said no one stacks up to rg3 nor luck … but they both dont stack up to themselves any more eithrr

  23. 23 Mr. Magee said at 4:05 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    What does that mean?

  24. 24 daveH said at 6:20 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    meant, that HE Said “NO”.. no these QB’s aren’t as good as Luck & rg3.
    that’s what he said.
    but then I thought to myself for a moment, and then said to myself, “self, even Andrew Luck isn’t as good as he was ..people starting to debate that .. I mean anyone would take him,,, but rg3 hasn’t panned out so very few would take him now vs when he was in the draft .. and the was the basis of tumtum’s question ..but the more I answer the question, the more I get myself confused ..so why am I trying to explain ..
    but I think Tumtum’s question is a very good question!

  25. 25 Tumtum said at 1:52 PM on April 19th, 2016:

    Ouch harsh on luck for one injury plagued season.

  26. 26 Jack Waggoner said at 10:42 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    It’s hard to compare. With Wentz you have all the physical characteristics, height, arm strength, decent running ability. He is dedicated, smart, and quick to learn, and has, by many accounts, a deep knowledge of pro-style offenses. But still higher risk due to small school and inexperience against strong opponents.

    Some teams will look at that talent and that drive and that great attitude and feel confident with the risk.

  27. 27 wee2424 said at 11:39 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    Luck is another level beyond every QB mentioned. RG3 follows and not far at all are Mariota and Winston. The current crop is a level under Winston and Mariota. It simply isnt a great year as for as QB talent in concerned.

  28. 28 ChoTime said at 10:11 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    It seems that QBs can be hyped almost infinitely, but does anyone have a clue how they will turn out? We don’t know if they will ever be competent, let alone be a top ten QB.

  29. 29 Jernst said at 10:22 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Exactly! God I remember a time where there was legitimate discussions about whether Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf would end up being the better pro, and more than a few knowledgable people were arguing that Leaf should have been the 1st pick that year. That lasted all about 4 games.

  30. 30 ChoTime said at 10:26 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I never seriously looked into it, but I do remember radio from around that time. The vibe I got was that it was a toss-up. I actually preferred Leaf because of his Rothlisburger-like mobility.

  31. 31 Jernst said at 10:43 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Yea it was a real toss up going into the draft and only in the last week or so leading up to the draft did Manning seem to start pulling away as the guy most likely to go number 1 overall, and still a lot of pundits thought the Colts had made a huge mistake and that Leaf was going to be the better pro player.

  32. 32 Tumtum said at 1:30 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Just for the funsies

  33. 33 daveH said at 10:28 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    I hope we pick someone good

  34. 34 RC5000 said at 10:28 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    Trying to get Jacksonville to take a 3rd to move up for Tunsil is very tempting.

  35. 35 wee2424 said at 11:36 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    Absolutely tempting, but if i were the Jags i would decline. Having an extra 3rd isnt enough compensation for losing out on whom i believe is the best T to come out in years.

    Its just not worth it for the Jags, unless of course they are in love with another OT in this draft. Cant see who it would be. Stanley is more then 1 step lower then Tunsil. In all honesty i really think Stanley is going to be a bust in the NFL.

  36. 36 Media Mike said at 5:41 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I’ll disagree with you on Stanley. I think he’s going to be a good player. I’ll agree he’s a step down from Tunsil, but the bust tackles in this draft are Conklin and Decker.

  37. 37 wee2424 said at 10:26 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    While I do not think Conklin or Decker will amount to much there are some red flags on Stanley that are troublesome such as severe lack of upper body strength and a reported lack of work ethic.

    I think Conklin will transition from T to G and will eventually become a very solid G in this league.

  38. 38 Fufina said at 6:38 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I am not a Stanley guy (in the top 10 anyway), but i doubt he is a bust. Good technical guys who have the appropriate size rarely bust in the NFL. They often do not end up being elite players but i doubt he busts. I think he can be a league average LT for 10 years, which has value in and of itself, but i just do not see the ability to dominate or be elite at the position in him, and because of that i would want to wait more until the mid rounds… and then have a need at the LT position.

  39. 39 wee2424 said at 10:23 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    If they do not have a good work ethic it is very possible for a player you just described to bust.

  40. 40 Jernst said at 10:20 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Why so down on Stanley?

  41. 41 wee2424 said at 10:11 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    There are many reports out their suggesting that he doesnt have a love for the game, that his work ethic is lacking, and at times will slack in a game.

    Furthermore i believe he benched a measly 18 reps at the combine. That is absolutely horrible for an OT and shows a real lack of upper body strength. The lack of strength to that degree is alarming. It not only blatantly shows his obvious lack of strength, but more deeply a lack of effort to be the best he can be at a very basic level.

    As i said in a previous comment, its not all due to a lack of talent that creates a bust but a lack of work ethic and appreciation of the game. That has been proven in countless busts.

  42. 42 Jernst said at 10:44 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Very good points! I wasn’t aware of any of that. Just had watched a bit of tape and liked what I saw. Definitely paints a much more concerning picture. This game is all about guys who absolutely live and breathe it. Rarely if ever is someone talented enough to overcome the absolute dedication required to succeed at this level. Even besides the high bust rate of players that don’t have the prerequisite dedication and work ethic, even if those guys do succeed the success is often short term (Shawn Andrews, Albert Haynesworth, Jevon Kearse, ect). Or you end up taking an OT at 8th overall expecting him to be a fixture on your Oline for a decade and he retires at 26 after cashing in his big signing bonus.

  43. 43 Media Mike said at 5:41 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    You really can’t get from 8 to 5 with just an extra 3rd thrown in. You could do it with 8 to 6 possibly.

  44. 44 Gian GEAGLE said at 11:01 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I don’t see it..
    ..
    Jacksonvile and the Ravens IMO won’t be passing on a LT so that we can go get him.
    .
    The Jags ARENT even picking up the 5th year option on Joekels contract, rumors that they will end up trading Joekel…I see no way that the Jags pass on the chance to draft Tunsil.
    ..
    After losing Kelechi Osmele, I don’t see Ozzie Newsome passing on drafting the top two OL prospects in the draft… Unless someone like Ramsey falls to #6, I see the Ravens taking Tunsil or Stanley
    ..
    If we want a LT, I think we will have to jump the jags and Ravens, and since the Cowboys Probably won’t trade with us, I think we have to get to #3 if we want to draft a Tackle

  45. 45 jaws80 said at 10:43 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    i also have the sense that Elliott has become a bit of a sleeper. he is too often listed at number 8. I think other teams are being quiet on him, hoping he is there at 3,4,5 or 6. After QB at 1, and Ramsey at 2, Elliott could be 3 and surprise everyone.

  46. 46 sonofdman said at 12:08 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I doubt that San Diego would spend a 1st round pick on a running back two years in a row. I guess someone could trade up to 3 take Elliot, but that seems like a lot to give up.

  47. 47 jaws80 said at 1:16 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    with Cowboys seemingly the only other team linked to Elliott, someone might try to jump ahead of them and trade up to 3 – everyone thinks Tunsil is the target, and Elliott gets picked. Unlikely, but getting a feeling that teams (or rumors we hear) are a little too quiet about Elliott.

  48. 48 Insomniac said at 12:35 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    This is more unlikely than the Eagles taking a TE at pick 8.

  49. 49 Media Mike said at 5:42 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I think Elliot is in play for Cleveland at 2, Dallas at 4, and Baltimore at 6.

  50. 50 Jernst said at 10:18 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I have not spent much time studying Elliott and didn’t watch him play much in college. All I’ve seen is his highlights on youtube, so my opinion comes with that rather large grain of salt. That being said, while I like what I saw and thought he looked like an excellent back, I don’t recall ever seeing anything that made me think, Oh my god! Go get this guy at all costs, or that he was worth the number 2 overall pick. I could be way off base here, but I just don’t see the type of generational elite skills you’d want at a back taken that high.

  51. 51 NinjaP said at 10:45 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    Tommy if we believe that Howie didn’t become draft decision maker until the 2012 draft then he also has never drafted a small school player. I know limited non chip sample size but still do we think Howie pulls the trigger on a division 2 Qb top 10?

  52. 52 anon said at 10:49 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    coach wants him

  53. 53 NinjaP said at 10:50 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    Yeah but its howies career on the line here. Doug can probably always be a QB coach again at least.

  54. 54 laeagle said at 10:51 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    I’m actually curious how the dynamic works out in this case. We saw Howie giving Schwartz what he wanted in free agency. But Schwartz has a track record, and with some of the guys they picked up.

    I’m curious as to how this works when it’s a franchise QB at stake, and with so many possible draft resources allocated, whether they trade or not. Does he give Pederson whatever he wants, or do bigger “franchise” issues come into play? Do you give an unproven head coach like Pederson whatever he wants?

  55. 55 NinjaP said at 10:56 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    Well pederson was one of the advocates for Nick Foles right? I wonder if that is considered a success or a failure in hindsight. It was kind of a middle ground pick.

  56. 56 Jack Waggoner said at 11:17 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    For where Foles was drafted, he did very well.

  57. 57 laeagle said at 12:10 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Good question, though the metrics are different on a Round 3 QB. I wonder how it goes when Pederson is saying, “get me this small school guy in Round 1, whatever it takes”. Again, I can see trusting Schwartz, but does he take Pederson’s word for it?

    What I’d actually hope for is that the coaches and Howie are talking a lot, and that they would make a move on a first round QB based on consensus, if they all really liked the guy. It seems like they’re all going on the scouting trips together, so I think there’s reason to be optimistic that they at least will be on the same page with a decision.

    Whether that decision is correct is, of course, TBD, until after they make it, and then we see the results.

  58. 58 Media Mike said at 5:43 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Good counter, but that could also be misinformation.

  59. 59 eagleyankfan said at 8:06 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    coach isn’t charge….he’ll have input….but it doesn’t matter who he wants if HR has different ideas…

  60. 60 wee2424 said at 11:32 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    Pederson wanting him definitely ups the chance of that happening plus the need at QB. I dont think Howie is the type of GM that will just ignore a prospect due to being in a smaller school. If his scouts vouch for Wentz then i beleive Howie will pull the trigger.

    With that being said you have brought up another wrinkle that hasnt really been mentioned at all from what i have read/recall.

  61. 61 Media Mike said at 5:43 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Good point on Howie / Andy and small school guys early. I wonder how much that will impact the decision making.

  62. 62 Jernst said at 9:55 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I remember hearing Howie talk about his draft philosophy back in the 2012-2013 timeframe and if I remember correctly, he outright stated that one of their goals was to draft players with excellent production from major programs to decrease the projection and that he had studied success rates and it supported that strategy enough for him to make it a focal point.

    All goes out the window when talking about QBs, since that’s just a whole other animal. But, overall I’d expect the trend of taking productive guys from major programs to continue. Hopefully, we won’t return to the Andy Reid era strategy of blowing every single 3rd round pick on a small school project that almost always failed to produce.

  63. 63 Jernst said at 10:14 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Seems like after he hit on Westbrook in the 3rd round, either Reid or Banner fell in love with the idea of taking some major projects, small school guys or guys with questionable measurables in the 3rd round. Not all of them fit that bill, but most certainly do. His third rounders from 2003 through 2011 were atrocious!

    Billy McMullen
    Matt Ware
    Ryan Moats
    Chris Gocong
    Stewart Bradley
    Tony Hunt
    Bryan Smith
    Daniel Teo-Nesheim
    Curtis Marsh

  64. 64 Stephen E. said at 10:46 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Bradley had excellent value for a 3rd round pick until his injury at Flight Night.

  65. 65 Jernst said at 10:56 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Completely agree! He was certainly a hit as a third round pick. His career fizzled out because of his injury not because he was a bad pick or the scouting department didn’t find a gem. Plus he played at Nebraska, a major college program. Like I said, not all of the 3rd rounders fit the bill, Bradley was definitely an exception.

    But, overall, that’s 9 drafts and 9 players selected in the third round and we ended up with one starter at MLB who was a good pick and one 2 year starter at SLB who set the edge in the run game fairly well for those 2 years and not much else. 7 others were complete and total busts, and the tendency to draft ridiculous reaches and projects from small schools with often times poor measurables to boot seemed to accelerate in later years when we wasted three straight 3rd rounders on Bryan Smith, Daniel Teo-Nesheim and Curtis Marsh.

    The results have been much better since then.
    Nick Foles
    Bennie Logan
    Josh Huff
    Jordan Hicks

    Two starters that appear to be pretty good starters at that, one decent back-up QB who ended up starting for 3 years for us, and a WR with some upside and skills that may or may not pan out, but who has already given us more production than the vast majority of Reids third rounders listed above.

  66. 66 wee2424 said at 11:26 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    Would be shocked if Tunsil fell like that. If he were stat falling towards us i 100% believe that we should make a move to try and grab him. In my opinion he is the best T to come out of the draft in a few years. Would really give us a great OL again, and just as important young.

  67. 67 Cafone said at 11:57 PM on April 17th, 2016:

    Yeah if Tunsil falls like that, screw Wentz and go get him.

  68. 68 Rambo said at 7:21 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    More male erotica I see.

  69. 69 Jernst said at 9:51 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    If Tunsil makes it past 4, we should be making a significant push to move up and take him!

  70. 70 Cafone said at 12:04 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Carson Wentz is old.

  71. 71 Insomniac said at 12:05 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Yup but he’s not Weeden old.

  72. 72 Cafone said at 12:25 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    true.

    He’s more like Jerome McDougle old.

  73. 73 Stephen E. said at 10:47 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I hope he doesn’t get shot.

  74. 74 Insomniac said at 12:04 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I don’t really see the speed in Listenbee. He can get some separation but only enough to make the catch. Even in the highlights, most guys were able to run him down and stay in his hip pocket. Seems like another guy that tests better in his underwear than on the field.

  75. 75 Cafone said at 12:21 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    woah I come here for sports not male erotica.

  76. 76 Cafone said at 12:22 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    just kidding, they are the same thing.

  77. 77 Jernst said at 9:28 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Yea…I still don’t understand why they test these guys in spandex instead of pads and a helmet. There’s been plenty of players that were more powerful in their lower legs than quick, and, therefore, lost some time on the initial get off the line (which is one of the biggest determinants in running a fast 40 time at the combine), but who are able to continue to accelerate even at 30-40 yards down the field and can continue to pull away. It doesn’t show up on the raw 40 time, but it does on the field.

    I remember seeing somewhere where they broke down [I forget who’s] 40 yard dash and showed that unlike most players he was still accelerating during those last 10 yards and then showing how that second gear really showed up on the field and why he was a pretty decent deep threat even with a 4.5 forty.

    A lot of these quick twitch track stars lack the power needed to do overcome the pads and do that. They reach top speed in the first 15 yards and that’s where they get most of their awesome 40 time from.

  78. 78 ChoTime said at 10:09 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    So, you’re saying someone like DeSean is power-based?

  79. 79 A_T_G said at 1:13 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Any thoughts on these guys?
    https://twitter.com/snfonnbc/status/592816006201888768

  80. 80 Media Mike said at 5:46 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I liked Dawson and Jarrett in last year’s draft. I think Dawson is going to do a lot of good stuff in Cincy.

  81. 81 D3FB said at 9:11 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Dawson and Jarrett had good rookie years, Anderson did well until he tore his knee up. Hill kicked around a few teams, Peters got cut in camp and never really caught on anywhere.

    Anderson reminds me alot of Dean Lowry in this years draft.
    Jarrett reminds me of Andrew Billings.
    Antonio Morrison probably most similar to Dawson.

  82. 82 A_T_G said at 1:14 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    ESP still banging the gong for Zeke.
    https://twitter.com/eliotshorrparks/status/721873683715899393

  83. 83 anon said at 1:24 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    so, not zeke

  84. 84 Insomniac said at 1:24 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    He does have a point.

    Stanley might not start on the OL
    Hargreaves isn’t going to be an instant lockdown CB
    Jack might get limited snaps depending on how his knee is recovering
    Any DL won’t really win you games despite how good they are
    Treadwell? He could be a very good RZ target but is he even on the board at pick 8?

    So yea Zeke really does have the highest odds of helping us win games right now.

  85. 85 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:53 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Might not start as a rookie shouldn’t factor into the equation.
    ..
    Smart teams forsee future needs and draft a kid a year or two before they will need him to start

  86. 86 Jernst said at 10:57 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Exactly! Plus with Peters continuing to decline and having chronic back problems, I’d say it’s more likely than not that Stanley would definitely get on the field at some point as a rookie as well.

  87. 87 Gian GEAGLE said at 11:13 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Yeah, I dont Love Stanley to be honest. But if he ends up being as good as they say he will be, it would be good pick for us, even if he ends up sitting on the bench for a year or two….. And with JP in and out of the lineup all year last season, having a round 1’talent on the bench as insurance would be comforting..
    ..
    Problem is that if Stanley is as good as people say he is, I don’t expect Tunsil and Stanley to get past the Jags and Ravens, nor do I think the Jags would take a draft pick and let us move up for Tunsil/Stanley… The Jags ARENT even picking up the 5th year rookie option for Joekel,, protecting Bortles should be #1 on their list of needs…
    ..
    Unless the Cowboys are willing to trade with us, I think the Eagles would have to move up to #3 to get a Tackle…the only way a Tackle falls to #8 IMO is if people are over rating stanley and he ends up falling to the 10-15 range…if Stanley is one of the top tier prospects, I think both Stanley and Tunsil will be gone before the Niners pick
    ..
    If the Browns trade Joe Thomas like I think, they will be in the market for a tackle
    ..
    Don’t think the Chargers are taking a tackle
    .
    Cowboys aren’t taking a Tackle
    ..
    jags should have Tackle #1 on their list of needs.
    ..
    Ravens should have a Tackle as a major need
    ..
    If chip plans on trading away Anthony Davis, they could use a tackle too

  88. 88 Cafone said at 1:36 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Maybe, if you are betting on a Ryan Mathews injury. Mathews had 5 yards a carry last year. If he stays healthy and Sproles does his thing, does Elliot make that much of a difference next season?

    I think VH3 would make the most impact at a position that often requires three players on the field and is currently manned by a bunch of question marks.

  89. 89 Insomniac said at 1:37 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Mathews has been healthy for one full season. Don’t bank on it.

  90. 90 Media Mike said at 5:53 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I’m betting on a Mathews injury.

  91. 91 Jernst said at 9:22 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    VH3 also has the lowest ceiling in my opinion of the guys in the top ten. Sure there’s outliers (so please don’t have everyone respond with the 2 or 3 all-pros in the past decade that bucked the trends, I know they exist, but they are outliers) that excell at CB with 40 times over 4.5, but chances are that VH3 at his best is an Asante Samuel type of gambler that gives up just as many blown coverage X-plays as he does interceptions.

  92. 92 Insomniac said at 9:52 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    You just described Marcus Peters but people gush all over Peters…

  93. 93 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:21 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    VH3 is the least likely to be an eagle IMO

  94. 94 Jernst said at 10:42 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    God I hope so. I’d actually rather have Zeke than VH3. CBs that put up gaudy INT numbers while giving up big plays scare the hell out of me. You end having to pay them huge amounts of money because of their INT numbers, but their impact on games ends up being an overall negative. I hate CBs that play like Asante Samuel and a guy that takes as many risks with his elite short area quickness as VH3 who also lacks the straight line speed to recover have weekly 40 yard bomb TD written all over them.

  95. 95 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:51 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Absolutely… I don’t have VH in the same tier of prospects than Zeke..
    ..
    Good quickness, quick twitch change of direction.
    Good toughness and competitiveness
    Wish he was taller
    Wish he was faster
    Wish his arms were longer
    Wish he jumped higher
    Wish he didn’t give up so many big plays
    Wish he played better in his biggest games.

    Doesnt sound like the 8th best prospect in This draft. Not even close…

  96. 96 Media Mike said at 5:52 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Not a bad point, but I could make an argument that Ronnie Stanley at 8 and Dixon in round 3 would give us more impact than Zeke at 8 and another year of Peters on the decline and no credible NFL player at one guard spot.

  97. 97 Fufina said at 6:35 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Where does Stanley play in 2016? The team is not moving on from Peters this year, he is paid too much, is too important a team figure to be tossed away by a coach feeling his way into being a Head Coach.

    Peters may well be in decline, but i am not sure it is terminal yet. Scheme change is going to be hugely advantageous for Peters since he might actually get some TE help if he is struggling in the pass protection unlike with Chip’s leave the struggling OL on an island all game approach. It is hard to tell how much of his injury issues are short term and which will continue on long term.

    Stanley would be a significant downgrade in the run game in 2016, and is going to have learning pains in pass protection early… You can start as a LT in your rookie year but you are almost never an above average starter.

  98. 98 P_P_K said at 8:32 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Peters health and quality of play this year could be the pivotal factor in the teams success, or lack thereof.

  99. 99 Jernst said at 9:16 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I wouldn’t count on Peters getting much TE help in Pederson’s scheme. Like Reid, his scheme is based on the desire to get 5 receivers out in the passing game on every pass play. Further, as a LT, the TE is typically (though not always), lined up to the right.

    Stanley would have a shot at LG, although he does not project to be a good or even great guard, so that would certainly be out of position for him. But, he’d conceivably have a shot. If that failed, he’d be the top OT back-up next year, and would more than likely see some playing time given Peters’ back issues and continued decline. He’d also have the potential to supplant Peters should Peters show up and not look the part of a starting LT anymore. At that point, Peters may have two options: move to LG (which despite his boasting of being the best LT on the team and not ready to make that move, he has said in the past that he sees his career ending at LG not LT…so it’s not inconceivable that his view of himself catches up with reality and he accepts the move given that he’d still be making a large sum of money and it would be what’s best for the team) or he could get cut and see what a 34 year old LT who’s in clear decline and has chronic back issues can get on the open market post June 1st.

  100. 100 Fufina said at 9:34 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    You can give help to either RT or LT. Historically it has been to the RT, since teams tended to use more run blocking focused players with TE to chip in pass protection, and feeling more comfortable with a QB dealing with pass rushers beating a RT.

    However Lane is good enough in pass protection to be able to take a rusher on 1v1 (has had to his entire career so far with Chip), meaning you can give some help to Peters against speed rushers if needed. (Help can just be a chip or quickly engaging and then passing off to Peters and then leaking out to be a check down option.

    Andy has not used 5 receivers much in KC at all – he has loved using 2 TE’s, and 1 tends to stay in line and help quite a lot in pass protection/run game.

  101. 101 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:19 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Rookie spending the yeàr learning on the bench is a good thing, not a negative… It gets tricky tho if JP proves to have more than one season left in the tank

  102. 102 Jernst said at 9:09 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I agree completely! After watching some tape on Stanley and Conklin and looking over that awesome comparison between the two that D3FB posted from another site, I loved what I saw out of Stanley and saw a huge drop off to Conklin. I’m no expert in Oline play or the guys that would be available at OT in the 3rd round, but I’m sure the drop off from someone like Conklin to them is even more drastic. This team NEEDS an OT. Peters MIGHT have ONE more year left in his body and even that is not guaranteed. Lane SHOULD be able to move to LT, but even that isn’t guaranteed and even in the best case scenario where he transitions without any issues, that still opens up a glaring hole at RT in just one season, possibly even sooner if JP misses time again this year or continues to decline physically. The draft is about the future. This team NEEDS an OT for the future and possibly as soon as immediately.

    The other option is probably taking a guard (a position that’s easier to find in the 3rd and 4th rounds rather than finding a starting OT in those rounds) and crossing our fingers that we make it through this year before OT becomes a GLARING need next offseason. The problem I have with this is that LG is the easiest of the 5 Oline positions to play and a relatively easy hole to plug. Right or Left Tackle is not. If an elite tackle is available I’m going that route over a RB every time.

    Finally, I just don’t see all the hype with Zeke. He’s a great RB for sure, but hardly a generational talent.

  103. 103 Fufina said at 9:27 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Well Peters may play 2-3 more years, and i think a decent chunk of our OL issues are overblown, and were a significantly created by scheme and play calling.

    We have a LT of the future with more raw LT ability than Stanley signed long term with a big contract in Lane. We are looking for a RT for 2017, and a low upside (but high floor) LT only prospect seems a huge waste of resources.

    We can try to find a mid round RT prospect with high upside to develop, and if they do not project to be able to start we can spend free agency $$ on a RT (always available) or draft one in the top 2 rounds.

  104. 104 Jernst said at 9:36 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    You won’t get any argument from me that a lot of our Oline issues from last year where due to Chip’s horrible and predictable blocking scheme mixed with the constant hurry up. But, I think EXPECTING Peters to play 2-3 more years is very optimistic! Sure, he might, but I just don’t see that as realistic.

    And, Lane has all the tools to be a great LT, but he still hasn’t even developed into a GREAT RT. I have a decent amount of faith that he’ll be able to make the transition to LT and might even someday become elite. But, that’s far from guaranteed.
    Having bookend tackles for the next 7 years is a huge plus to any offense. So, I don’t think you can say it’s a waste of resources.

    Further, we’re talking about taking a RB instead of OT in the top ten of the draft. When talking about resource allocation, given RBs short half life, the ability to use RB by committee unlike other positions where you can’t, the lack of pure impact on winning that a single RB has on a game over replacement level competition compared to other positions, the fact that we have a decent RB already on the roster, and how much easier it is to find RBs compared to OTs, plus the plethora of great RBs coming out next year, it just seems like resource allocation isn’t the best argument to make in taking a RB over an OT.

  105. 105 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:18 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I think he has at least two years left…. We could get 5 great offensive lineman,but it won’t mean anything until they build chemistry and play as a cohesive unit. So I don’t think a new regime would waste a year on Peters if they thought they would have to replace him after the season.. Im hoping that they see Wisnewski as someone who can earn an extension and make Philly his home. I would hate to see Wiz win a starting spot, and then walk after the season. If they only see him as a bandaid, I would prefer they draft someone that pushes Wiz to the bench… We need to get 5 quality Lineman in place who will gel into a cohesive unit the next 2-3 years… I don’t think they would waste a year starting two band aids that they would get rid of after the year.. It’s possible that JP gets hurt and it won’t work out, but I really do think the coaches expect another 2, maybe 3 years out of him, or at least they hope.
    ..
    I will be furious if we waste this yeàr on two lineman that we cut after the season, and have to start the OL gelling process all over again… Hopefully eliminating the tempo, and forcing JP to practice during the season will show that The end of JP era talk is premature

  106. 106 D3FB said at 9:52 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Peters is more likely to play fewer than 12 games than 2-3 more years.

    Please name the mid round high upside RT.

    Top end RTs are not at all always available in FA.

  107. 107 Insomniac said at 10:02 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I would love to know too.

  108. 108 D3FB said at 10:05 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Especially given that he sees Stanley as “low ceiling”

    There are other options in the midround to potentially become a starting RT, but they are inferior players to Stanley, and none have the same ceiling.

  109. 109 Insomniac said at 10:14 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Agreed. I guess the rumors about Stanley’s work ethic might have scared some people off.

  110. 110 Fufina said at 10:18 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I see Stanley as being a solid long term starting LT, i think he is technically good for a college tackle, and has quick feet and balance which should translate well to the NFL.

    But i do not see a player who plays with an edge, nor one who has great power or to be a threat on the 2nd level to transform good plays to great plays.

    If we did not have Lane Johnson who i think in 1) NFL proven 2) got better LT raw talent i would not be against the pick but i just do not see the match up of need and value.

  111. 111 D3FB said at 10:25 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    He’s an island tackle, that’s a rare commodity. He’s technically sound. He moves well to the second level. Lane has higher upside, but there is certainly questions left to be answered, Lane has had some struggles in pass pro and has yet to make the leap from good to great. Just because he’s not a mean snarling stomp your teeth in doesn’t mean he’s not really really good, and would provide true bookend tackles which would open alot up from a protection and playcalling standpoint.

  112. 112 Jernst said at 10:38 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Couldn’t agree more! Bookend tackles >>> Top ten RB in terms of actually affecting the outcomes of games.

  113. 113 Insomniac said at 10:29 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    You seem fixated on the idea that Stanley won’t get stronger in the NFL. I would be more worried if the OT that I wanted had poor footwork and was an average athlete..like Jack Conklin for example.

  114. 114 Jernst said at 10:37 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    He’s certainly more Tra Thomas than Jason Peters, but that’s not necessarily an awful thing, particularly in a LT. Few if any LTs become available that can be elite island pass blockers at LT while also being mean maulers in the run game who can also run down the field and spring huge screen plays for you.

  115. 115 D3FB said at 10:41 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    This. <3

    http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m865cqhAAu1r1mjq0.gif

  116. 116 Jernst said at 10:44 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Get over here big guy…come in for the real thing

  117. 117 D3FB said at 10:50 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Yayyyy I get a hug!

    http://pre04.deviantart.net/d33a/th/pre/i/2011/338/1/c/snorlax_suddenly_hugged_you__by_xxsamluvsgreendayxx-d4i57e6.png

  118. 118 Fufina said at 10:26 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I will hold my hands up and say i am hardly an expert on draft OL. Think the position is hard to evaluate without all 22, and detailed knowledge of scheme and assignments. I don’t even try to give opinions on interior OL since i honestly cannot fairly grade a player.

    From reading about the draft and then watching tape I like Willie Beavers and Jerald Hawkins as mid round guys, who have the upside to be quality starters with good coaching and some time to develop.

    I guess i used ‘upside’ in 2 very different contexts in the same post which makes confusion easy. Stanley as a long term starting LT is a higher upside than nearly anyone except Tunsil in this draft. RT is less valued. But if i am taking a tackle in the top 10 when i already have a LT of the future then i want him to be a better prospect than Lane and i just do not see it. Upside in the 3rd is to be quality long term solution at RT…

  119. 119 D3FB said at 10:33 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Funny enough I know you’re a big analytics head, both of those guys are well within the do not touch zone with analytics.

    I personally don’t mind Hawkins, Beavers is far too heavy footed to play T. I think Murphy, Haeg, and Tuerk are all midround guys who can be starting RTs but not island types.

    Stanley isn’t the most perfect use of resources but he would provide a unique upside with offensive scheming.

  120. 120 Fufina said at 10:41 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Ohh interesting, ill be honest i have not read seen a lot of quality stuff on OL analytics especially for the draft. The few bits i have read are poorly correlating and pretty basic. if you have time do you have some links? or a break down of the basic concepts… Because i am an analytics fan as if done well can overcome some bias and give context to the bigger picture that everyone struggles to see at times.

  121. 121 D3FB said at 10:49 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I just started recently following this kid after Kyle Crabs recommended him. Haven’t really dug in but it seems to be pretty solid.

    @NFLDrafter is his twitter handle

    Here’s the OT article

    http://profootballspot.com/nfl-draft/article/records/2016-ot-prospects-to-avoid-positional-slaytic-thresholds-r81/

  122. 122 FairOaks said at 9:26 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I think Wisniewski is at least a credible NFL player, even if nothing special. Stanley would definitely shore up the line long-term and I have no problem with that pick, but that may not be about immediate impact. If Elliott would turn into a real weapon he may have more impact, especially this year. I’m kinda still torn on taking a RB there (might prefer Stanley since that type of player is hard to find), but could certainly deal with an impact-type runner who’s a threat out of the backfield as well.

  123. 123 Gian GEAGLE said at 9:58 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Draft is for the future. Free agency is for next year..
    ..
    Im a Zeke fan, but Zeke being able to help next year SHOULDNT factor into the draft equation. But I don’t expect elliot to understand that

  124. 124 Insomniac said at 10:45 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Teams that are all ahead of us in the 3rd that need a RB.

    Bears
    Dolphins
    Raiders
    Giants
    Titans

    So it’s unlikely Dixon will be available when we pick again.

  125. 125 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:48 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    People have this silly idea that franchise RB’s grow on trees and that 7 franchise RBs will come out of rounds 3-7 in this draft…

    Out of 10-15 RB drafted outside of round 1 this year, doubt more than 1 or 2 will go on to be franchise backs, if that

  126. 126 Tumtum said at 5:29 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Do you need a Franchise RB anymore?

  127. 127 Tumtum said at 5:27 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Pretty bold statement. The best RB in the draft can impact your record more than any other guy in the draft for, THAT season? Give this guy a pass to the mother ship.

  128. 128 Cafone said at 1:28 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Eagles Rewind did a scouting report on Wentz: https://eaglesrewind.com/2016/04/17/carson-wentz-scouting-report/

    He has serious concerns about Wentz’s mechanics, but doesn’t hate him.

  129. 129 P_P_K said at 8:31 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    An excellent and very fair report. For me, I’m not buying the hype about Wentz. I don’t see him prepared for the rush and coverage he will face in the NFL. I really hope the Eagles stay away from him.

  130. 130 D3FB said at 8:40 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    And here’s Patrick’s report on Goff.

    https://eaglesrewind.com/2016/04/15/jared-goff-scouting-report/

  131. 131 Fufina said at 2:55 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    It is rare that i disagree with Tommy but i do here. Cleveland has to take a QB. They have not had a franchise QB since returning to Cleveland, they are in a division where they have no prospect of contending without a long term solution at the position.

    I have a friend who for his sins is a Cleveland fan, and he and most of the rest of the fan base is obsessed with finding a QB solution, they will riot if they do not get a QB and this is an ownership that is happy to pander to fans in the quest to put bums on seats.

    It will take imho a Rams level deal to get them to move off the pick – since they can sell that to the fans, otherwise i think they will be forced to take a QB.

  132. 132 Cafone said at 4:13 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    They got RGIII

  133. 133 Media Mike said at 5:54 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Haslem has been obsessing over RG3 for 4 years. It is 100% possible to that they’ll still take a QB, but it is also strongly possible that Haslem wants to build around RG3.

  134. 134 P_P_K said at 8:25 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I agree, he got his guy and will want to build around him.

  135. 135 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:45 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    doubt it will be Haslems call.. I don’t think he gets Sashi to come over from MLB Without giving him full control

  136. 136 D3FB said at 10:47 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Depodesta came from MLB. Sashi Brown was teams legal counsel.

  137. 137 ACViking said at 12:08 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Persnickety facts available to anyone with curiosity.

    Shame on you, Coach.

  138. 138 eagleyankfan said at 8:02 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    100% with your opinion. If for some strange reason Cleveland does not go QB, the odds of SF going QB jumps 10 fold(however many that is). CK is always in pursuit of a QB. I get that he’s not “in charge” of the draft – but he’ll have some input. How can they be confident with the QB’s on the roster. I just don’t see Wentz going to 8.
    ……
    I do agree that CB is in play…

  139. 139 Gian GEAGLE said at 9:56 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Chip drafted one QB in 3 years, Barkley with a 4th round pick.. Where does Chip is always in search of a QB come from? Wouldn’t surprise me if that ego maniac thinks he can fix GABBERT… I hope they do take a QB tho

  140. 140 Gian GEAGLE said at 9:54 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    You really think Cleveland’s new outside the box thinking front office is going to do the same exact thing the Browns have been doing for decades? It wouldnt shock me if they went a different route, WOULDNT shock me if they took a QB either.. If they even keep the #2 pick…

  141. 141 Fufina said at 10:08 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    They have consistently not invested in a top draft QB’s. Since Crouch in 1999, they have not spent a top 20 pick on a QB, instead trying to find 2nd and 3rd tier guys in the late 1st and later to solve their QB situation.

    Spending a top 10 pick on a QB would be a big change of direction for the franchise that has taken 8 top 10 players since Crouch and not addressed the QB position with any of those picks.

  142. 142 Ankerstjernen said at 3:12 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Listenbee looks like a very good prospect for this team filled with possession receivers and no real deep threats. He tracks the ball and adjusts while its in the air, has real deep speed and yet a lot of these catches are in traffic, with players around him, making it harder. We don’t really seem to have anyone on the roster right now with that kind of ability.

  143. 143 Media Mike said at 5:54 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Indeed.

  144. 144 Bob Brewer said at 4:58 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    From your keyboard to God’s ears.

  145. 145 Media Mike said at 5:56 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    ‘After talking to some people and doing more thinking, I’m afraid Jared Goff is going to be the Rams pick at #1.”

    I agree completely. I think they want a day 1 starter and Wentz is a guy who needs to sit.

  146. 146 Media Mike said at 5:58 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    If I were to take a run at a top 10

    Rams – Goff
    Browns – Tunsil
    Chargers – Stanley
    Cowboys – Elliot
    Jags – Ramsey
    Ravens – Jack
    Niners – Buckner
    Eagles – Wentz
    Tampa – Hargreaves
    Giants – Conklin – and I scream REACH at the top of my lungs.

    I’m willing to assume Bosa slides some due to production concerns at this level. You might even see Shaq Lawson picked ahead of Bosa.

  147. 147 Fufina said at 6:25 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    The Bosa slide i find hard… I would agree he lacks the physical tools to be a generational pass rusher – And so i would pick him behind the 3 players who in my opinion have the raw talent to be that kind of player in Tunsil, Ramsey (as a safety not CB) and Jack.

    After those guys (and QB’s), i struggle to see him falling much more. He plays the 2nd most premium position in the NFL, has a wide range of pass rush moves, plays hard every down and loves football. I think he has about the highest floor in the draft… i cannot see him busting unless he has off the field issues. Think sometimes (and i am guilty of this) is we overly obsess with athletic ability and forget that is only part of the package. Bosa’s strength, hand placement, technique, footwork are all excellent and that will translate to being a very good pass rusher.

    You put him next to a Cox and i think he will give you 10+ sacks a year and be good against the run. Thats worth a lot in the NFL, and i just cannot see him falling past 6.

  148. 148 greenflyer said at 7:43 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Can’t see Wentz dropping. Cleveland has to take Wentz unless they go Cook early 2nd.
    Dallas may wait to draft RB till early 2nd and get a Defensive player.
    Don’t see SF paying for Cleveland pick so it’s there for the Birds. But how much does Cleveland want? I believe Eagles pay the price and pick Wentz.

  149. 149 Jernst said at 8:55 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    If Tunsil drops to 6 I really hope we are all over the phones trying to trade up 2 spots. I’d gladly give up a 3rd or a 3rd and 4th to make that leap.

  150. 150 Gian GEAGLE said at 11:25 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Is he really ever going to get past the Jags, who probably have LT at the top of their Needs since Joekel is not the answer.
    ..
    Think we would have to get to #3 or #4 to get Tunsil

  151. 151 mark2741 said at 9:18 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I’m relieved to hear Goff going to the Rams. He comes from a spread system that, based watching the highlights and his whiteboard talk/terminology on th Grudog QB camp show (yeah, I know, I overdo it with my research and sources!), he seems like a bad pick waiting to happen. I’d take the upside of Wentz.

  152. 152 D3FB said at 9:32 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Derek Carr played in an Air Raid derivative (same as Goff)

    Mariotta played in a spread

    Andy Dalton played in Justin Fuentes (Paxton Lynchs HC) Power Spread

    Aaron Rodgers was knocked for playing in Tedfords simplistic version of the WCO

    Drew Brees played in an early and relatively simple version of the spread

    RG3 played in the Briles power spread w/ Air Raid flavors (and he didn’t fail in the NFL because he was like OMG must throw 5 yard out lol)

    Over 60% of NFL snaps are out of the shotgun. Over 60% of snaps come from 3 WR sets.

    “Pro Style” in 2016 is a spread offense.

  153. 153 Insomniac said at 10:17 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Carr also has 9″ hands..well 9″ 1/8 to be exact but that shouldn’t make that much of a difference.

  154. 154 D3FB said at 10:18 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    And Goff’s came in at 9 1/4″ at his pro day.

  155. 155 FairOaks said at 11:37 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Dunno, from the reviews I’ve been reading most seem to indicate the Goff is definitely the best QB in the class, well ahead of Wentz. It will be interesting to see if Wentz still goes early. It just takes one team to get enamored. I’m probably OK with the Eagles taking Wentz at #8 but would rather not trade up for him.

  156. 156 Gary Barnes said at 9:29 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    There is no way to know real from hype or misdirection until after the draft, but the bottom line holds true:

    The Eagles have a golden opportunity to get a stud player in the 1st round and they better get it right. Trade up, trade down, hold firm, whatever they choose to do, it better work out. This team needs elite difference makers badly.

    If they go primarily by positional need (which I do not recommend), I think it is clear CB is the most important.

    We have Rowe and Carroll as our starters and unproven and/or mediocre depth behind them. That should scare the absolute daylights out of every coach especially Pederson & Schwartz and every scout and administrator like Roseman in the building. They need to upgrade CB big time.

  157. 157 Gian GEAGLE said at 11:48 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I don’t think it is at all clear that CB is the biggest need… I could see a DL get on the field for us week 1 in September where as a corner could sit on the bench his entire rookie year if Nolan, ROWE and Leodis all stay healthy (not that it should effect who we pick, just saying).. CB is No bigger of a need than LB. We have 3 credible starters for next year at CB and LB. If anything the LB come with more durability concerns..
    ..
    I don’t think CB is any more of a need than LB and DL. Truth is that we need to add starting caliber young talent on our bench at all 3 of those positions, and I don’t think we can afford to ignore any of them. We need to add Depth at all 3 spots, and hopefully that depth grows into future starters
    ..
    We still have a significant need at LG. 5 great offensive lineman does us no good until they gel and grow into a cohesive unit. Wiznewski is only signed for one year. If we don’t end up Extending him, then I hope someone beats him for the starting job turning Wiz into an insurance policy… Seems like we still could need to find a starting LG that will go on and be our LG for the next 3,4, or 5 years so that our only can get the continuity needed to gel into an elite unit.
    ..
    While its not the popular opinion, I think Jason Peters could remain our LT for another two years. Id love to get an elite Yoûng Tackle and allow him to sit and learn behind JP, even for two years…. With JP being in and out of the lineup all last year, it would be easier to give JP a chance to remain our LT for a couple more years if we know we have a young stud being groomed behind him.
    .
    Young Franchise RB is high on our needs too.
    ..
    CB is a need, but not any more of a need than a few other positions.
    ..
    Basically we have a solid starting Lineup in place for next year, but we have depth needs across the board at almost every position, so fortunately we are in a great position to look for the best talent, and not allow needs and positions to complicate matters.. Start building our depth across the board, drafting the kids we think have the best chance of growing into more than just depth/Back ups..
    ..

  158. 158 Gary Barnes said at 12:29 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Disagree. Carroll is a borderline starter and mediocre at best. Rowe is largely still an unknown. He has started at CB, but I do not see him as a good or even average starter yet. He showed some flashes, but also got eaten alive.

    The depth is mediocre (Leodis) or unproven so if we have any injuries we are truly sunk at a critical position in a passing league.

    IMO, DE, CB and MLB are the priorities for a 4-3 defense. Pass rush and pass defense are the keys. Outside LB, S and DT are less vital. I would like to improve the depth at LB, DL and S, but we have limited resources and many holes unfortunately including OL and RB too.

    To me, CB is the weakest spot as we have at least good starters at LB, S and DE. That is more than we can say about CB.

  159. 159 Mitchell said at 12:45 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Who else did Rowe get “eaten alive” against besides Megatron?

  160. 160 Gary Barnes said at 1:48 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    That was the game I was thinking of. And in 2016, we are facing ODB twice, Julio Jones, Dez twice, Antonio Brown and AJ Green amongst others. I’m not confident either Carroll or Rowe is a good matchup against those elite WR.

  161. 161 Gian GEAGLE said at 2:55 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I think has a very diffrent opinion of Rowe than Megatron does.

  162. 162 Gian GEAGLE said at 2:54 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I don’t believe in assuming I have seen the best it will ever get from a player during his first year in a new role. I need to see two years of Nolan Carrol on the outside before im comfortable saying what he is and what he isnt. Fortunately his versatility is a safety that allows us to find out. If Camp shows that we have a better option at outside CB, Nolan still provides a solid Nickel or Dime corner and quality ST player
    ..
    It’s fair to say that Rowe HASNT proven that he can be our #1 CB. but you would be lying if you claimed that he proved that he can’t be our #1 CB
    .,
    all this unknown is why I expect the Eagles to wait Til rounds 3-5 next to draft a CB. This year we will get a better idea of exactly what we have at CB, and if and how they can fit in our new defensive scheme. next offseason we should be in a better position to know exactly what we need at CB,and we can then invest in the position accordingly

    Wanna make a friendly bet? I’ll bet you that the Eagles draft a defensive lineman earlier than they draft a CB…

  163. 163 Jernst said at 9:50 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    After watching Listenbee’s highlights I’m thoroughly impressed. And, I disagree that his speed doesn’t show up on tape or that the CBs covering him are routinely able to stay in his hip pocket. The majority of times that he was making contested catches or making deep receptions with a guy in his hip pocket were plays where he seemed to be slowing down ever so slightly and adjusting beautifully to slightly underthrown balls. For people who never played the position it’s very hard to recognize the subtle adjustments that WRs have to make within their route to adjust to the path of the football. For most casual observers when they see a ball that hits the receiver in stride right in his hands, they immediately give credit to the QB. The problem is that, even for the most elite of NFL passers, it’s rare that they truly throw an absolute perfect dime of a pass that hits the receiver right in stride without them having to adjust at all. It often looks like that because the WRs adjustments are so subtle that it appears the ball was dropped in their perfectly.

    But, there is a completely underrated skill in WRs being able to position their body between them and their coverage while adjusting their speed and direction in such a way that they get to the catch point at the exact right time while also keeping the CB in a position where he can’t make a play on the ball.

    Listenbee does this routinely! And, he makes it look so easy that it goes completely unnoticed. The CB is in his hip pocket a lot of those plays because he put the CB there using his elite speed, and then has the ability to use his limbs and body position to keep the CB there while slowing down or speeding up as necessary to make plays on imperfect passes.

    A lot of WRs can’t track balls like this. They run as fast as they can and then suddenly the balls behind them and they have to fight through the coverage to try and catch the ball. Or they can’t track the ball, run full speed and adjust left to right in a way that maintains their body position between them and the CB. Listenbee on the other hand is truly elite in this part of his game. I’d be thrilled with picking him.

  164. 164 Insomniac said at 10:01 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Most of those CBs ran stride for stride with Listenbee on go routes. So you’re making no sense at all.

  165. 165 Dave said at 10:11 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Good stuff here.

    “Jeremiah told me that these days, scouts don’t usually see the actual draft board before it’s done, and part of the desire to reach out to the media with anonymous voices is a desire to be heard and respected … by anyone. More often, scouts are treated as simply information-gatherers and dropped at the door from the larger process. It’s a simple transaction where the scout gets respect, and the media member gets information. Only the names are excluded.”

    https://twitter.com/SI_DougFarrar/status/722043449558433792

  166. 166 D3FB said at 10:17 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    “Jeremiah told me about a situation that happened with one of his teams,
    presenting the opposite scenario. A mock draft came out late in the
    process that had the team aligned to a player in a way that was actually
    completely accurate, and the team drafted that player in the end. But
    there had been no connection between team and player in the media to
    that point. The entire scouting department was called into a meeting,
    and everyone was given the same stern lecture from upper management:
    Nobody here had better be spilling to the media about who they like.”

    That my friends would be Danny Watkins and Peter King.

  167. 167 Dave said at 10:27 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Curious for your opinion on the Eagles attempt to trade up to #1 last week. Was that put out there to the media by which of the following:

    1.) Eagles front office
    2.) Titans front office
    3.) Anonymous scout/employee for the Eagles or Titans unbeknownst to the front office.
    4.) Agent for player
    5.) Made up by media

  168. 168 D3FB said at 10:39 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I think they called. I don’t think they ever offered a kings ransom package. I’ve been advocating pick 8, 77 and next years first to go get Goff. The offer would have likely been in that range (probably with pick 79 or 100 or 2017 3rd as well)

    1. Maybe
    2. Most likely
    3. How would they know?
    4. See previous
    5. Doubtful

    It was probably gotten from the Titans and confirmed by the Eagles. Whether that was a smokescreen or cover “we tried to go get a QB but look how much they costs!” who knows.

  169. 169 xmbk said at 10:12 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Ravens would love that draft.

  170. 170 b3nz0z said at 10:13 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    i hope they sit tight because it looks like someone good is gonna be there at 8

  171. 171 anon said at 10:51 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Eagles VP of football operations Howie Roseman called Ohio State RB Ezekiel Elliott a “complete back.”

    Elliott said last week the Eagles have shown the most interest in him throughout the pre-draft process, and it is clear Roseman thinks highly of the Ohio State product. Unless Philadelphia jumps up to No. 2 to snag North Dakota State QB Carson Wentz, Elliott is likely to be their pick at No. 8. The Eagles could put Ryan Mathews on the trade block if they nab Elliott in the draft.

  172. 172 Gian GEAGLE said at 11:22 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    I wish reporters would stop pretending that they found out Rosemans true intentions

  173. 173 anon said at 10:51 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Eagles coach Doug Pederson said he does not expect DT Fletcher Cox to attend this week’s minicamp.

    He also sat out voluntary workouts two weeks ago. The absences likely are contract-related.

  174. 174 Insomniac said at 11:17 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    thank god Chip isn’t here or else Cox would have been cut.

  175. 175 b3nz0z said at 12:10 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    well he’d try to trade him but leaks that we’ll cut him if nobody wants.

  176. 176 GermanEagle said at 3:05 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Rumours have it that Fletcher is a member of the gang called ‘The Cox’!!

  177. 177 Donald Kalinowski said at 11:03 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    1. Rams- Goff
    2. 49ers *trade*- Wentz
    3. Chargers- Ramsay
    4. Ravens *trade*- Tunsil
    5. Jacksonville- Buckner
    6. Cowboys- Elliot
    7. Browns- Bosa
    8. Eagles- Jack

  178. 178 Dave said at 12:00 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Take it for what its worth.

    https://twitter.com/LesBowen/status/722087057179316224

  179. 179 Mitchell said at 12:08 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Thats how meniscus are. Its not a matter of IF he’s gonna need another surgery its when. I’d still take him at 8, especiall with who will be available in this draft.

  180. 180 Gian GEAGLE said at 1:00 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I really want Jack, but Cartilage issues are scary…
    ..
    I am skeptical of negative noise when talking about a player who is head and shoulders above all the other prospects at his position…
    .
    If the Eagles view his knee as a mess and have no intention of taking him, I wouldn’t want them sharing that info with the world. Why would I want to discourage a team in front of us from taking him, if we deem him medically undraftable? On the contrary, we should be spreading positive rumors about his knee because we want teams ahead of us to draft playërs we have no interest in…who are all these franchises that are being so generous as to share what a mess his knee is? Being a Good Samaritan, trying to help a rival team not make the mistake of drafting him? Color me skeptical..
    ..
    When it comes to Jack, it should be a pretty simp,e decision for the Eagles. He would easily have one of the highest ceilings available if he fell to #8, so it would probably come down to how our medical staff views him
    .
    But you can never go against your medical staff no matter how much you like a player…he is one of my top 3 favorite kids in this draft, but if our medical staff DOESNT green light him, we have to take him off our draft board….but I need more than just generous Good Samaritan rivals telling everyone what a mess his knee is to believe it. hopefully our medical staff has an accurate understanding of his knee ons way or the other

  181. 181 FairOaks said at 2:35 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Yep, these rumors are often leaked by teams hoping he’ll make it down further, to them

  182. 182 Gian GEAGLE said at 2:45 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    You would think that’s more likely than Teams being so willimg to help other franchises avoid a draft mistake.

  183. 183 BlindChow said at 4:45 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    This makes little sense.

    Why would one team rely on a leaked report from another team’s medical staff and disregard their own?

  184. 184 FairOaks said at 4:54 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Yeah, not sure many would. Maybe there is a GM who doesn’t trust the medical staff, though… every team skipping helps. Might make it harder from a PR perspective and some teams may factor that in, or maybe there are some teams who didn’t do detailed medical looks thinking they would not get a player, but then he falls further — might help to get by some of those teams.

    I may however have been thinking more about leaks of drug test failures — a reporter mentioned that was often a source of those leaks, teams trying to get a player to drop further in the draft.

  185. 185 Media Mike said at 4:54 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Exactly. Even if you only trick one feeble minded franchise; the misinformation would be worth it.

  186. 186 b3nz0z said at 12:09 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    that’s not at all what you want in a top ten pick man

  187. 187 Insomniac said at 11:16 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Good read even though it features Eli.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/21/sports/football/giants-manning-develops-arm-strength-by-working-from-the-feet-up.html

    tl;dr version

    QBs that are labeled with weaker arms can make up for it by working on their lower body and mechanics. They will still not have the velocity or distance as the bigger arm guys but they will still be able to make all the throws.

    Examples

    Matt Ryan
    Drew Brees
    Tom Brady
    Kurt Warner
    Peyton/Eli Manning

  188. 188 sonofdman said at 8:12 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    HGH helps as well.

  189. 189 Mr. Magee said at 9:11 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Surprised to see Brady on that list

  190. 190 Insomniac said at 10:05 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Brady didn’t have a great arm coming out of college. Scouts even labeled Peyton’s arm for average.

  191. 191 Gian GEAGLE said at 11:18 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Rams- Goff
    Browns- Wentz
    chargers- Ramsey
    dallas- Bosa
    Jags- Tunsil
    Ravens- Stanley
    Niners- Buckner
    Eagles- Jack Attack
    Bucs- VH3
    Dolphins(trade with Giants, leap froggin the Bears for) Zeke

  192. 192 truehaynes said at 11:52 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    My wet dream. Boys take bosa(least potential of the top players available) tunsil drops and stops the jags from taking Jack, we get our prized lb. I’ve said all along the two players I covet in this draft are Jack and ramsey

  193. 193 Gary Barnes said at 1:58 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    If I have Tunsil rated as the #1 OT and he falls to 5, I go get him. Figure out what happens with Peters from a high leverage position.

  194. 194 Gian GEAGLE said at 2:15 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Why would the Jags let us “go get him”?
    .
    Don’t you think he will be #1 or #2 on their big board? Doubt they would be so eager to give up the chance to take one of their top 2 players who actually fell to #5
    ..
    Protecting Bortles should be their #1 priority, and they don’t even think enough of Joekel to pickup his 5th year rookie option, which speaks volumes considering we already gave Lane a new deal. Some analyst have speculated that they are even going to try and dump Joekel in a trade.
    ..
    My expectation is that both the Ravens and Jags will be thrilled if the Tackles fall to them..
    ..
    I think the Tackles will be the most coveted players in theTop 10:
    1) Rams wont draft them
    2) Browns could draft a tackle, I expect them to trade Joe Thomas and Haden
    3) Chargers won’t draft a Tackle
    4) Dallas won’t draft a tackle
    5) jags would probably love a Tackle
    6) Ravens probably Love a tackle
    7) Chip/Niners could draft a tackle depending on if Chip will put up with Davis coming out of retirement..
    ..
    I think its more likely that the Eagles will have to trade to 3 or 4 to get Tunsil
    ..
    Think the Jags would rather have Tunsil, than trade to #8 and get a 3rd round pick. I don’t think a team finding their #1 or 2 top rated player available at #5 would be interested in passing that up for an extra pick

  195. 195 eagleyankfan said at 2:10 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    very hopeful aren’t you 🙂

  196. 196 Gian GEAGLE said at 2:19 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Which part of that do you find so hard to believe?

  197. 197 eagleyankfan said at 2:36 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Jack falling. I’m with you — would be excited. But agree that the news about his knees are scary.

  198. 198 GermanEagle said at 3:01 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Joe Banner doesn’t believe Browns will go Wentz.

  199. 199 Greg Richards said at 4:33 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    You don’t think 8 is a little high for Jack Conklin?

  200. 200 Media Mike said at 4:55 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    That “Jack” is only going to be attacking Robert Gallery territory at tackle.

  201. 201 Greg Richards said at 5:55 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Robert Gallery was obviously overdrafted but he developed into a pretty good guard.

  202. 202 Media Mike said at 6:18 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    ………….funny you should say that……….

  203. 203 Sean Stott said at 11:54 AM on April 18th, 2016:

    Why call them voluntary workouts if you’re going to point out players who aren’t attending?

  204. 204 Rellihcs said at 12:37 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Its the league who calls them that. It’s the media who points out the missing guys. So don’t blame the league /teams for the medias stupidity…

  205. 205 Gary Barnes said at 2:01 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    So they are not voluntary according to the teams?

  206. 206 Rellihcs said at 2:56 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    No, they are voluntary according to everyone. The media just likes to point out and unnecessarily amplify a senses.

  207. 207 Tumtum said at 5:22 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Nothing the media does is necessary other than actually showing the games. Pointing out who is missing from OTAs is actual reporting. It gives you a good idea of what is going on with your team. You should appreciate it.

    This type of reporting is actually informative and allows you to formulate thoughts such as these: “Oh Cox is missing? He must think the time is now for more money. I agree”. Or: “Oh, Desean didn’t show up to the voluntary work outs. I’m sure that he has a legit… oh never-mind he went to the Mayweather fight. I really don’t like that guy”.

  208. 208 Rellihcs said at 5:38 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I’ve yet to see a case where they things, even into training camp, ever have a significant cumulative effect. It’s almost always top talent players anyhow so the practice time makes almost zero difference as long as they show for regular season.

  209. 209 Tumtum said at 1:48 PM on April 19th, 2016:

    My point wasn’t that it would have a direct impact on their play, though it almost certainly will. If your goal is to be perfect, which is unattainable, you work as hard as you can toward that goal. Can someone skip work and have an amazing year? Of course. There are many instances of that not happening.

    I used two examples. Cox as one and Desean as one.

    Last year Desean Jackson skipped just about all of the voluntary stuff. Maybe he even skipped a mandatory camp just for the hell of it? I don’t remember exactly. Suffice to say he missed tons of time. Training camp starts and he gets hurt in the first or second day.

    The list of players who didn’t show up with bad results tied to that lack of presence is extremely long. Just using the Eagles: Cory Simon ended up having the tag rescinded, tanking his own career. Evan Mathis just last year was cut and ended up making quite a bit less than he would have (though winning a Superbowl, the net effect for me was BAD). T.O did push ups on ESPN, suspended for conduct detrimental, tanked our 05′ season in a million ways, then went to our hated rival.

    I’m not saying all hold outs are bad. I just took issue with the notion that all hold-out, or missing of practice time, is inconsequential. It wasn’t my point in my original reply.

  210. 210 Rellihcs said at 1:57 PM on April 19th, 2016:

    Fair enough. I think Cox case is entirely different, and at this point, extremely insignificant.

  211. 211 Tumtum said at 2:47 PM on April 19th, 2016:

    We agree on that.

  212. 212 Media Mike said at 6:17 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I agree. I want all info!

  213. 213 FairOaks said at 4:59 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    They are voluntary per the CBA. That doesn’t mean that coaches like missing players, but they can’t be obvious about any punishment based on it. But if you lose a spot on the depth chart… not sure the player can do much unless they are obviously better than the other guy.

    I think it also may have some relevance when you have a new coach — most players would want as much time as possible with a new staff.

    The second reason to report it is that there is often a contract-related reason behind the no-shows, meaning it’s part of a larger story which they are following.

  214. 214 Tumtum said at 5:17 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    You know that the teams love the media pointing out who is missing. As well they should.

  215. 215 Rellihcs said at 5:34 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    No, I disagree 100%

  216. 216 Tumtum said at 1:51 PM on April 19th, 2016:

    My reasoning is that the coaches want their players there more than they already have them. The media points it out to the fans and the player feels the pressure.

    Would love the reasoning behind your conviction.

  217. 217 Rellihcs said at 2:03 PM on April 19th, 2016:

    I don’t think players feel pressure from fans. They are taught to ignore fan comments for good reason, they are millionaires who do what they want. Period.

    I think the teams always hate the media meddling in their business. Sure there are times when a team leaks things intentionally, or otherwise “uses” the media, but in the case of reporting camp/practice absences, it’s no leak or case of the team telling them something.

  218. 218 BlindChow said at 4:42 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    “Voluntary” doesn’t mean “secret.” It just means they can’t (ostensibly) be punished for not attending.

  219. 219 Fufina said at 12:15 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    So i have been reading the comments from the Doug/Howie press thing this morning. Not sure what to make of it really. They could be being honest and transparent because they are happy where they are and the options available and hope to build some relations with media by doing that.

    Or it could be complete smoke screen for other NFL teams to try and throw teams off the scent. It is interesting that they had this availability because it is not league mandated nor common with other teams.

    Key points points various people have stressed on twitter from it:

    Howie was glowing about Zeke
    Doug said they graded Goff/Wentz pretty much the same but seemed to be more positive about Wentz.
    Howie was asked about Stanley was was pretty neutral – Doug said Tunsil was better prospect.
    Talked about how highly they rate Peters
    Howie talked about 2017 RB draft class being a factor in evaluation
    Denied any intention to trade Cox
    Stated their resistance to trade down.
    Dodged trade up questions.

    How you interpret that stuff i up to you guys, i honestly do not know if i should believe some, non or all of it.

  220. 220 BobSmith77 said at 12:19 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Nuggets of truth marked by general deception. It is what any GM and coach do.

  221. 221 Rellihcs said at 12:38 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    None.

  222. 222 Gian GEAGLE said at 2:24 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Let’s hope that the part of DP being “pleasantly surprised” by Hackenbergs workout is BS..

  223. 223 sonofdman said at 8:09 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Agreed.

  224. 224 eagleyankfan said at 2:39 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    not sure it’s a matter of “belief” … it’s stuff they have to say. Like “Stated their resistance to trade down.” — they have to say if they want maximum value.

  225. 225 ChoTime said at 3:57 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    The best thing about such an unheralded new coach is that I expect nothing from him. Andy and Chip, I expected to compete for a Superbowl. This guy, getting to the playoffs would be a cause for celebration.

  226. 226 Mr. Magee said at 9:07 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Especially if he’s responsible for time management (which he is!)…

  227. 227 Gian GEAGLE said at 2:03 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Need to find out exactly what we have in Rowe and Nolan(last year was his first year starting outside) because we have to know what we have, to know what we need, if we find out that we struck gold in Rowe and he becomes a #1 CB that can match up with the top dogs at WR each week, having to find a #2 CB is much easier, and Id be much more willing to gamble on Hargreaves being able to be a successful #2 CB in the NFL, but I don’t get why so many people are convinced that This kid is going to a top tier #1 CB at the pro level… And I really not comfortable sticking VH on an island all game in Jim Schwartz scheme against DEZ Bryant, ODB, Julio and all the quality #1 WR in the NFC
    ..
    Fortunately, I think we are in a good position this year with our elite safety tandem patrolling the Back end. If Schwartz can also deliver on that ferocious pass rush generated by the front 4, we should be ok for a year with Leodis, Nolan and Rowe as our starting CBs while really finding out what exactly we have in Rowe.
    ..
    My Expectation is that the Eagles will draft a CB somewhere between rounds 3-5 next week. Going into the season with nolan, Leodis and Rowe. If we hit the lottery, Rowe becomes a #1 and the kid we draft in round 4 proves to be a Gem who can eventually be our #2 CB… But since both of those things happening are a long shot, we most likely will get to next offseason, and at least have a much better idea about whether we need a #1 CB, or if we just need a #2 CB, and then Invest to fill that need accordingly..
    ..
    And who knows, maybe a gem emerges from what should be a highly competitive CB competition in camp between a bunch of youmg corners who will have to compete for a roster spot,maybe two:
    1) the Rookie CB we draft in between rounds 3-5
    2) JaCorey Shepard
    3) Denzel Rice
    4) Randall Evans
    5) Brooks
    6) UNDRAFTED FA cornerback or two that will be signed for camp
    ..
    We have Rowe, Leodis, and Nolan as our two starters and a nickel. So those 6 young corners will be competing for the #4 Dime role, and then 1 more roster spot(two more if we keep 6 corners) and you would THNK there is a good chance we keep the Brooks kid we just signed and the CB we draft in rounds 3-5… Which probably means that we keep a 6th corner that will come down to a battle between JaCorey, Randall Evans, Denzel Rice and the UNDRAFTED CBs we sigń

  228. 228 Cafone said at 6:59 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Nolan Carroll is a journeyman. If the Eagles cut him tomorrow, the chances he’d find another starting job are 50/50 at best

  229. 229 Mr. Magee said at 9:05 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Elite safety tandem??

  230. 230 peteike said at 3:08 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    No way its not Wentz going first to Rams. He just fits better with a grind it out Gurley offense and Goff coming form the spread. Not buying they are even debating. We shall see I guess but I dont believe those reports they are looking at both one bit.

  231. 231 Mr. Magee said at 9:03 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Me neither. But why are they doing this? They can’t possibly be trying to induce a trade for the #1 pick they just acquired, right?

  232. 232 FairOaks said at 9:37 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    As D3FB said, it’s likely the league prefers the discussion and suspense. They don’t gain anything from committing publicly either — never know if something bizarre happens.

  233. 233 mksp said at 3:16 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    *NOT PROPOSING WE TRADE FLETCHER COX*

    BUT, just for argument’s sake, what is Fletcher Cox’s value?

    A young, rising team with cap space would love to pay him.

    Is a trade to JAX for #5, #38, #146, a 2017 2nd + 2017 4th fair?

  234. 234 Gian GEAGLE said at 3:17 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Lol

  235. 235 mksp said at 3:18 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Reading comprehension never has been your strong point.

  236. 236 Fufina said at 3:38 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Errrr no.

    you can probably get Wilkerson from the Jets for #38 straight up, and there is no way we could even get a top 10 pick for Cox at this point in his contract cycle.

    Problem is the fact Cox will soon be making 16-18mil a year, and paying assets plus that contract is too much of a commitment for any player that is not a QB.

    Look at how much the Saints got for Jimmy Graham… #31 and a 4th. Think that is the kind of package you could get for Cox (maybe a little better because he has 1 cheap year left).

  237. 237 Media Mike said at 4:17 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I’m not sure what trade in the past I can use for a comp for Cox. Seymour maybe?

  238. 238 Buge Halls said at 4:25 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Ridiculously over paying. I’d love to see the Eagles get that, but no GM in the NFL would cough up that much for him! that price is like moving up from 20th to 1st overall, not picking up a guy trying to negotiate a ginormous contract!

  239. 239 Tumtum said at 5:10 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    About right. Though if the trade were to happen it would pend on a deal being negotiated before it was complete. Fletcher cox is my favorite player in some time, but I think you take that trade as fast as you can get it, if it is offered.

  240. 240 Buge Halls said at 8:57 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Of course, absolutely no way you turn down that bonanza, but the chance of it happening is about zero.

  241. 241 Insomniac said at 6:16 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Jags wouldn’t trade for Cox in the first place. They already threw big money at Malik Jackson in FA so why overpay for another DT?

  242. 242 A_T_G said at 6:39 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Okay, we seem to have established that there is no way we are getting that for Cox. Now, pretend we did. I know, I know. Just pretend.

    What are the odds we get a player as good as Cox with one of those picks? 10%? Not 25%.

  243. 243 ICDogg said at 6:45 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Correct.

  244. 244 Buge Halls said at 3:39 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I really don’t want to see another pick in the top thee round for the third year in a row go to wide receiver. Let’s see what they can do this year and concentrate on the OL and filling in hole other places.

  245. 245 Mr. Magee said at 4:03 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    No way it plays out like the way Tommy is projecting… Wentz is going #1, and somebody (hopefully not the Eagles) will trade up for Goff.

  246. 246 peteike said at 4:36 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    agree except hopefully the Eagles make the move and get Goff

  247. 247 Media Mike said at 4:18 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    If we can get Wentz at 8………………

    Round 1 Pick 8: Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State (A+)
    Round 3 Pick 14: Kenneth Dixon, RB, Louisiana Tech (A+)
    Round 3 Pick 24 (CINN): Joe Haeg, OT, North Dakota State (B-)
    Round 4 Pick 2: Connor McGovern, OG, Missouri (B+)
    Round 4 Pick 12 (L.A.): D.J. White, CB, Georgia Tech (B)
    Round 5 Pick 14: Matt Judon, DE/OLB, Grand Valley State (A)
    Round 5 Pick 25: Travis Feeney, OLB/ILB, Washington (B+)
    Round 6 Pick 2 (L.A.): Justin Simmons, FS, Boston College (B-)
    Round 6 Pick 13: Willie Henry, DT, Michigan (A-)
    Round 7 Pick 12: Daniel Braverman, WR, Western Michigan (A)
    Round 7 Pick 30: Steven Daniels, ILB, Boston College (D-)

  248. 248 A_T_G said at 5:27 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    So, I shared this with my wife….
    https://twitter.com/atg_iggles/status/722120964344033281

    She looked at it and said, “I don’t get it, what does that mean ‘There is no f in weigh’?” Then her eyes got big and she looked into the next room to see if our son was paying attention.

  249. 249 unhinged said at 5:49 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Reminds me of sofa king.

  250. 250 Crus57 said at 7:23 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    or the pub quiz teams ‘Norfolk and chance’ and ‘Suffolk and close’, though those may need an english accent.

  251. 251 botto said at 7:54 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    i love sofa king
    its not just a great deal, it’s sofa king great!

  252. 252 Bacon & Iggles said at 5:49 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I’m still thinking someone will be enamored enough w/ Goff/Wentz, to make Cleveland an offer they can’t refuse for the #2 pick. Anybody think Howie might still want to move up?

  253. 253 ICDogg said at 6:37 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Sure he wants to.

  254. 254 SuPaFrO said at 6:38 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    1.LA-wentz
    2.Goff
    3.SD-Buckner
    4. Dal-Elliot
    5.Jack-Tunsil
    6. Bal-Bosa
    7.Sf-Jack
    8.Phi-Ramsey

    does anyone think any way this could happen??

  255. 255 anon said at 6:40 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    i sort of don’t see us taking ramsey – have a bunch of people at CB already. RB seems like the place they cleared room – i think if the QB is gone they’d like to trade back a little and still get elliot or trade mathews draft day and take elliot.

  256. 256 Fufina said at 6:45 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    We have plenty of long term need at Corner, and there is no issue adding an defensive playmaker.

    However while i would run up the card for Ramsey he is probably only going to be a good corner in the NFL. I think Safety is the position where he can be a transcendent multiple probowl type player, since you just do not see players with his physicality, athletic ability and brains combined in one almost ever at the NFL level.

    At corner his brains and physicality are not utilized as well so while he is going to be a very good corner, who tackles and ‘does his job’ and he probably lacks the hands/playmaking ability to truly be great.

    Still pick him at 8 tho.. and in 3-4 years he can move to Safety after Jenkins moves on.

  257. 257 Media Mike said at 6:56 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    You can absolutely terrorize people with him at safety……….and play him there this year in nickel if you put Jenkins at slot again.

  258. 258 ICDogg said at 6:44 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Nope

  259. 259 Mr. Magee said at 8:55 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I do think there’s an excellent chance your first 2 picks are correct

  260. 260 ICDogg said at 6:43 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I think LA wants Goff because he’s closer to a finished product. They want to start him immediately. Eagles are more interested in Wentz, I think.

  261. 261 Rambo said at 7:08 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    The Newark Star-Ledger’s Eliot Shorr-Parks reports Eagles coach Doug Pederson made it “very clear” Monday that he thinks North Dakota State QB Carson Wentz is “the real deal.”

    The Eagles seem to be the most buzzed about team connected with Wentz now that the Rams are apparently leaning heavily toward Cal QB Jared Goff at No. 1 overall. With the Browns seemingly preferring Goff to Wentz at No. 2, they make for a prime trade partner with the Eagles. According to Shorr-Parks, the Eagles have spent more time with Wentz than any other draft-eligible player, meeting with him twice at the Senior Bowl, at the Combine, in North Dakota, and in Philadelphia. There’s been a ton of quarterback smoke coming out of Philly.

  262. 262 Rambo said at 7:08 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I know…..ESP.

  263. 263 Media Mike said at 7:12 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    That’s stupid. Evander Holyfield is the only “Real Deal” I know.

    http://www.boxingtshirts.com/products/1/square/92508.png

  264. 264 Media Mike said at 7:19 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I don’t see how the fluffing of Wentz helps them in an attempt to get Wentz. I smell a rat. Same with Howie fluffing Elliot.

  265. 265 Mr. Magee said at 8:52 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Or it could be that Pederson just doesn’t have the savvy to keep his mouth shut

  266. 266 Media Mike said at 8:54 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I think Pederson and Howie had a nice convo about what he can say and what he can’t say.

  267. 267 Mr. Magee said at 8:56 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Hopefully that conversation included the use of a 2 x 4

  268. 268 peteike said at 7:20 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    “Source says Jaylon Smith’s recheck showed drop-foot problem, caused by nerve damage, hasn’t improved since the combine.” Les tweet. Ouch, this kid looks like a stud if he can get healthy

  269. 269 Media Mike said at 7:22 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    And Shefter just said that 2016 is done for the kid. What a shame. I can’t see how he’s not done. This sucks to lose both Lattimore and now Smith from the NFL before they’ve played a snap.

  270. 270 A_T_G said at 7:31 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    This has to be the saddest scenario for these kids. They put in the work, they beat all the odds, it isn’t a distant pipe dream but a real, legitimate future for him…and it gets ripped away months before it results in life-altering money through no fault or poor choices of the player.

  271. 271 Media Mike said at 7:34 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    That’s why I don’t rip a kid for coming out early. I’d rather earn $200k as some jobber on the practice squad and use that cash to go back to school than blow my knee for some college coach who likely doesn’t care about me beyond my ability to play for him.

  272. 272 daveH said at 7:46 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Thats why the NCAA are a bunch of predators. Too many examples and practically no one comes out of college without a knee issue. . snd the college concussion story isnt even written yet

  273. 273 Greg Richards said at 8:36 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    The NCAA does allow teams to purchase insurance policies for players. I hope it gradually becomes standard where teams have to purchase an insurance policy for every single player. I don’t think that will happen because of any type of union. If one big-time program starts doing it, they’ll have a recruiting advantage and it will gradually spread to other teams.

  274. 274 anon said at 8:47 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    If i’m a 5* recruit i’m pushing for that for any team i go to.

  275. 275 Rockedupeaglesfan said at 7:31 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I hope he had an insurance policy like Ifo

  276. 276 Insomniac said at 7:22 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    That’s really sad to hear.

  277. 277 Insomniac said at 7:25 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I’m very down on taking Jack now. While he can be a generational talent, he’s still a WILL LB with knee issues. He has the tools to do it all but he’s not a great pass rusher right now. IMO, that’s not worth pick 8.

  278. 278 Media Mike said at 7:27 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Here is where I’m torn………………
    I don’t like our current WIL backer in terms of salary vs. production
    Jack would be a nice upgrade
    WTF is really going on with his knee?
    How important is a weapon at LB vs. a steady guy at LB in Schwartz’s system?

  279. 279 Insomniac said at 7:35 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    That’s pretty hard to answer since Jack is really unique. There’s no doubt he would have an impact and would allow Schwartz to do really exotic packages.

  280. 280 Media Mike said at 7:35 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Does Schwartz do “exotic” with his back 7?

  281. 281 Insomniac said at 7:45 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I don’t really remember so maybe it can start with a healthy Jack?

  282. 282 botto said at 8:13 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    that’s where it always starts

  283. 283 A_T_G said at 7:38 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    The counter argument is that from all reports, this is the only thing that could lead to disappointment. Is the risk higher than Bosa’s non-elite athleticism or Wentz’s level of competition or Buckner’s scheme fit? Only the doctors have a good guess.

  284. 284 Insomniac said at 7:46 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I would say yes. At least those guys would play and have a higher chance of developing than Jack.

    The real question is if Jack’s knee implodes during training camp, how fast would the Novacare Complex be set on fire?

  285. 285 botto said at 8:11 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I read a report that the doctors think Bosa’s non-elite athleticism is worse then Wentz’s level of Competition, not as bad as Buckner’s scheme fit however. they suggest a second opinion though. I would just operate on Wentz, stick Bucker on a gurney and leave Bosa in the waiting room.

  286. 286 wee2424 said at 10:31 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I think Bosa will be very comparable to Trent Cole in the NFL. While that equates to a very good player I dont think that is #8 overall material.

  287. 287 wee2424 said at 10:35 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    If by saying this you are implying Bosa would be your choice then it bears mentioning that Bosa isnt really that great of a pass rusher either. Good? Yes. Great? No.

    I think Trent Cole is his NFL comparison.Very good player but not #8 overall as i stated below. Curry in my opinion would be better as far as getting to the QB if Bosa were drafted by us.

    Jack is the better player, but of course the knee rightfully complicates the matter. If team doctors feel comfortable with the knee and outside opinons feel comfortable as well then i think you 100% pull the trigger on Jack over Bosa.

  288. 288 Insomniac said at 12:25 AM on April 19th, 2016:

    I would just take Stanley and I don’t even know where you got Bosa from.

  289. 289 wee2424 said at 12:28 AM on April 19th, 2016:

    I assumed (it appears incorrectly) that when you spoke of a pass rusher you were speaking about Bosa, and taking Bosa over Jack.

    Upon reading your comment again i can see how i read it wrong. Sorry.

  290. 290 peteike said at 7:29 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    …says the #Rams are expecting Carson Wentz to arrive tonight for additional meetings, then Jared Goff comes in later in the week.” Ian Rappaport tweet

    Wentz seems like he would be a solid interview compared to Goff. Still think they go Wentz with a slower pace offense featuring Gurley. Of course, go with the better QB in all cases but where is all this leaning towards Goff coming from? Is it Shefter?

  291. 291 Media Mike said at 7:32 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    The logic that you’d want a day one starter if you’re the Rams is why I think they’ll take Goff. You’d have to wait a year on Wentz.

  292. 292 peteike said at 7:34 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    ahh ya I guess but dont you have to think long term with that cost factored in. Guess not in LA

  293. 293 Media Mike said at 7:35 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    That is a major part of it. I also happen to like Goff more than Wentz anyway.

  294. 294 Mr. Magee said at 8:46 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Why is that? I think DF3 is also of the same opinion..

  295. 295 Media Mike said at 8:53 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    It is less of a leap of faith for me to see how Goff translates to the NFL than it is with Wentz. A few of the draft writers I read also like the way Goff goes through progressions and still makes attempts to pass the ball while also facing a rush.

  296. 296 Mr. Magee said at 8:57 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    So you think consensus #1 QB is Goff then? Or would that be overstating it?

  297. 297 daveH said at 10:12 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Id take goff over wentz

  298. 298 jaws80 said at 11:42 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Wentz has around 600 career pass attempts and Goff has over 1500. So combine that with the lesser competition stuff and the question mark on Wentz’s back gets even bigger. I’d rather have Wentz though, something about the skinny legs of Goff that reminds me too much of someone, cant put my finger on it.

  299. 299 GermanEagle said at 8:50 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I rather take a late round flyer (Jaylon Smith) than risking a top 10 pick on basically the same risk (Jack).

  300. 300 RC5000 said at 9:09 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    I don’t know if it’s the same if Bowen’s source is right. The rumor is “Source says Jaylon Smith’s recheck showed drop-foot problem, caused by nerve damage, hasn’t improved since the combine,” Bowen tweets.

    It’s one thing to tear ligaments, it’s different when you’re dealing with nerve damage. Foot drop means that he isn’t able to lift his foot upwards and that foot would drag along the ground. The fact that it hasn’t improved at all since the combine could be a big problem. Nerves aren’t to be messed with.

    http://offtherecordsports.com/2016/04/18/jaylon-smith-has-drop-foot-problem/

  301. 301 ICDogg said at 1:21 AM on April 19th, 2016:

    Took me a few months. Peroneal nerve was pinched and twisted. Foot just stopped working as far as lifting it from the ankle. Side to side still worked.

    Went to a specialist, he basically said to wait it out, sometimes it heals on its own. Sure enough one day it just worked again. Was surprised that it completely and spontaneously worked again, as if nothing had ever happened to it.

    And has been fine ever since.

  302. 302 BreakinAnklez said at 1:08 PM on April 19th, 2016:

    Hope that’s the case with Smith. Such a talented player…real shame if career over really before it started.

    I also agree with the above that Smith and Jack are completely different cases.

  303. 303 ICDogg said at 4:46 PM on April 19th, 2016:

    Yes, not at all the same.

  304. 304 Eric Berinson said at 10:01 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    DRAFT STRATEGY: Every year, the HOF class has about 5 guys. On average, odds are that is replenished with about 5 HOF coming out. If you think you’re smart enough to know who the HOF is with a relatively high degree of probability (50%+ projection) go get him! If not, signs are there is too much question around the talent at #8. But let it play out and trust not only your board, but your ability to forecast a premium talent. Wait till 8 and see who’s there… (Elliot? Stanley? Wentz?)… If one of the player(s) there projects as a possible HOF candidate (33%+ chance) take him. If not, if a remaining player at #8 is a good combo of Best Player available AND significantly better than the NEXT man on the board at his position AND addresses a need (OT, RB, Defense), take him. If neither of those scenarios sits in your wheel house at #8, time to assess the best value that’ll be remaining at OT (Right Side by the mid first round), via trade back, and scoop up the book end on the right side for the next 10 years (Lane’ll be fine at LT) AND get that missing 2nd round pick back.

  305. 305 Rambo said at 11:51 PM on April 18th, 2016:

    Goff and Wentz have the same agent.