Know Your Enemy – SEA

Posted: November 19th, 2016 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 85 Comments »

The Eagles go to Seattle on Sunday afternoon for what might be the toughest game of the year. The Seahawks are 6-2-1, which is the second best record in the NFC. Seattle remains one of the toughest places to play and the Seahawks are 4-0 at home this year.

At the same time, Seattle isn’t the juggernaut that they’ve been in previous years. They only have one blowout win, a 37-18 victory over Chip Kelly’s 49ers, who are the worst team in the conference. Seven games have been decided by seven points or less. Seattle was a play away from losing 3 of their home games. And they benefited from officiating in close wins over Atlanta and Buffalo.

I do have to point out that Seattle is trending upward. Russell Wilson is healthier than he’s been all year. The young OL is coming together. Kam Chancellor missed 4 games, but he’s back. Seattle has come a long way since the first 2 weeks of the year when they looked like a mess against Miami and the Rams.

When you think Seahawks, you think defense. Even that unit has been inconsistent. From last week during the game:

Before you go thinking their D has lost it, they are still 2nd in points allowed and 9th in yards allowed. Stud DL Michael Bennett is out and Chancellor missed some time. Those are impact players. You can’t lose them and not feel it. Even with Bennet missing time, Seattle is tied for 3rd in sacks. Speed rushers like Cliff Avril and Frank Clark are highly disruptive off the edge.

The LBs are still outstanding, with Bobby Wagner and K.J. Wright. The secondary remains loaded with Chancellor, some guy named Earl Thomas and arguably the best corner in the league in Richard Sherman.

Right now it is Russell Wilson and the offense you should be scared of. They have put up 31 points in 2 straight games and they did that against Rex Ryan and Bill Belichick, a pair of the best defensive gurus in the league. Wilson is out of his mind right now.

That is kinda decent.

It used to be that stopping Seattle meant good run defense and building a gameplan to force Wilson to throw. Now you’re scared of him as a passer and would prefer they try to run the ball.

Doug Baldwin feels like the NFC version of Antonio Brown, the stud WR who doesn’t look like a stud WR.

(Feel free to insert the joke about Nelson Agholor’s career stats here.)

As good as Wilson and his weapons are (TE Jimmy Graham is great at times), none of that matters if the O-line can’t block well enough to give them time. The line is getting better each week, but still is vulnerable. LT George Fant was a basketball player last year at Western Kentucky. Now he’s protecting the blind side of arguably the most valuable player in the entire league. You can bet the Eagles will test Fant early and often.

RT Garry Gilliam will have his hands full with Brandon Graham all day long. Rookie Germain Ifedi has to try and block Fletcher Cox. Second year OG Mark Glowinski will try to slow down Bennie Logan. The Eagles should have an advantage up front. They need to make it pay off.

No one is sure what to make of Seattle’s run game. Leading rusher Christine Michael was cut on Monday. Clearly the team didn’t think highly of him. That was partly done because Thomas Rawls is on the way back from injury. Seattle is also very excited about a rookie RB.

Great, Wilson now has another weapon. Ugh.

Prosise played RB and WR at Notre Dame. Seattle uses him creatively and he is a matchup nightmare. Jim Schwartz will have to come up with some interesting ways to get Prosise covered when he lines up out wide.

Seattle started slow last year (4-5) before getting red hot and getting back to the playoffs. This team has a better record than that group did, but it does feel like they are coming together and could be getting ready to go on a hot streak.


85 Comments on “Know Your Enemy – SEA”

  1. 1 Know Your Enemy – SEA - said at 12:26 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    […] Tommy Lawlor The Eagles go to Seattle on Sunday afternoon for what might be the toughest game of the year. The […]

  2. 2 Prince Blue said at 12:32 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    If I’m SCHWARTZ I’m bring the heat to this young OL. I’m making them uncomfortable and not letting Wilson run around and make plays. Bring pressure to either make him scramble or get rid of the ball quick.

  3. 3 Greg said at 12:44 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    Use Kendricks to blitz/spy Wilson.

  4. 4 Prince Blue said at 12:46 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    I agree this is a Kendricks type of game. He can use his athleticism and speed as needed

  5. 5 Greg said at 12:53 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    I sure hope Schwartz reads the comment sections of Tommy’s articles at 1:00AM.

  6. 6 SteveH said at 11:26 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    I can help him put together gameplans if he wants. Clearly as an Eagles fan I know more about what to do than people who have been obsessively doing this their entire lives.

  7. 7 Greg said at 2:50 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    I thought we would see more 3 tight end sets with healthy tight ends. That’s what I would do to get DGB and or ags off the field. Why not use sproles and Matthews both in the backfield? Of course if Ertz is out now they cant to this.

  8. 8 SteveH said at 12:47 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    Kendricks took down Wilson 1 on 1 last year in open space. He has the athleticism to chase him down. The problem is can Kendricks cover decently enough to be on the field that much? I think using Kendricks as a blitzer should be a gameplan wrinkle. Let him come on delayed blitzes and bring Wilson down.

  9. 9 Prince Blue said at 12:56 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    I agree Steve. He could be a 3rd and Long blitzer. I just do not want Wilson with all day back there. But their OL is very suspect. Gotta get the crowd out the game early. Nothing like sacks and early 3 and outs to do that.

  10. 10 Media Mike said at 6:54 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    The problem with leaving Kendricks on the field on an obvious passing down to just blitz him is that you leave a rather obvious hot route open if the team isn’t in max protect. I’d like blitzing Kendricks vs a brain dead team like Carolina, but what’s to keep a maestro like Wilson from simply seeing the open space from the blitz and hitting the man in the spot Kencricks vacated?

  11. 11 Greg said at 10:19 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    You can say that about every blitzing player. Is your point to not blitz at all?

  12. 12 ChoTime said at 6:40 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Yep, crafty Wilson will play Kendricks like a violin.

  13. 13 Media Mike said at 6:39 AM on November 19th, 2016:


  14. 14 Rellihcs said at 6:46 AM on November 19th, 2016:


  15. 15 Media Mike said at 6:52 AM on November 19th, 2016:


  16. 16 unhinged said at 11:00 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    Perhaps no QB in the league sees the field and reacts faster that RW. If Schwartz follows that strategy, he (Wilson) will throw for 400 yards (in the first half). I expect to see very little blitzing from our defense. A four-man rush should still get pressure on Wilson, but if we sacrifice an area of the field, Baldwin or Graham or Kearse or Lockett will find it and Wilson will find that guy. Wilson is very elusive. A blitz might work on third and long…maybe, but it’s still high-risk.

  17. 17 GermanEagle said at 12:48 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    Sea vs Oak in the Super Bowl..

  18. 18 Media Mike said at 6:39 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    You misspelled New England.

  19. 19 SteveH said at 11:23 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    IDK man, Oakland is starting to look more and more legit, and now that Trevor Siemian is back and making the offense work they have to get through Denver as well.

  20. 20 Ark87 said at 12:38 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Unless we beat Seattle, at which point they turn to garbage like everyone else we beat. Poor Browns, Bears, Steelers, Vikings, and Falcons. I say if Seattle wins at least there will be someone to stand in Dallas’ way

  21. 21 izzylangfan said at 12:53 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    I think the Eagles have a pretty good chance in this game, unless Seattle figures out that they don’t need their outside corners and puts in a couple of extra linebackers.

    Couldn’t resist.

  22. 22 Media Mike said at 6:57 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    This is going to need to be a game where you have to take a shot or 5 with Treggs. Seattle’s high quality LB corps is going to wreak havoc on the short passing game.

  23. 23 Greg said at 7:10 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    I would like to see the Eagles try to stretch the field early on a second and short. If/when there is little separation, Wentz should/will overthrow it by a lot. Still can help keep the D more honest that way.

  24. 24 Gian GEAGLE said at 11:21 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    Oh Abslutely! We will get fucking slaughtered trying to dink n dunk all game. they will be sitting on all the short routes and it plays into the hands of their physical secondary and LB speed… Doug better not even dare try all those bubble screens this week because settke would love for us to try that against them
    The key to this game is heavy dose of the run game, NEVER abandoning the run, and we have no choice but to try and take some shots down field Even if it’s just to try and back up the DBs not allowing them to sit on underneath routes all game…. Our best chance of this is probably to use extra lineman and TEs to chip away at the defense, and any time we have some success running the ball, use play action to take some shots down field whether it’s Treggs, Ertz or Burton down the seem, jordan against Lane…. Have we seen us take a shot down field to DGB this year? I know we threw bad fade passes to him in the REDZONE, but I’d like to see us throw a play action Bomb to him this week, even if he doesn’t complete the catch at least it gives seattle DBs something to think about. We will get killed If we ask Wentz to pass 40 times. We will get killed if we try to throw bubble screens and short passes all game. So it’s going to be interesting to see how Pederson calls this game. He put together a masterful game plan against Atlanta, and from a schematic standpoint there are a lot of similarities between the Falcons and seattle defenses…
    If we are going to throw short, it has to be to Sprolesy matched up against a LB which was a big part of our passing game last week. last week Doug Pederson employed his passing game like we knew he would have to going into the season, leaning on SPROLES, Ertz and Mathews to compensate for our WR struggles on the outside. That was the blueprint for passing success going into the year, we got away from it at times, but it was nice to see us get back to it last week

  25. 25 Media Mike said at 6:40 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    Where we’re going to come up a tad short in this game is that Kelce isn’t going to geek Rubin and Reed blocked all game. One too many of our plays will be stuffed up the middle due to Kelce’s inability to handle blocking anybody over 275lbs.

  26. 26 Rellihcs said at 6:45 AM on November 19th, 2016:


  27. 27 Media Mike said at 6:52 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    You like Kelce vs. Rubin and/or Reed?

  28. 28 Dave said at 7:41 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    Don’t forget the obligatory penalty Kelce will have to stall a drive. It’s pretty much a guarantee once per game.

  29. 29 BlindChow said at 12:10 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    On a RUN.

  30. 30 Rellihcs said at 8:16 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    Not the point. Pregame assumed negativity grinds my gears. Period.

    Targeted hate at one of our players grinds my gears. Period.

    I root for the Kelce’s, Brandon Graham’s (over the course of career not just now that he’s beasting on the regular), BARNERS (I put the caps to grind YOUR gears), and yes, even Agholor’s on the team. I want them to overcome the negativity – so for me, when fans pile on the negativity, I see it as contributing to making it harder for the team to succeed.

    I want the team to succeed. Therefore I wan’t those who make it harder for the team to succeed to stop doing so.

    Philly fans have a history of decreasing the chances for their athletes to succeed and I think that is pathetically stupid.

  31. 31 unhinged said at 9:56 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    So are you saying (writing) that the mere expression of anticipated failure on the part of one or more of the players that you are actually rooting for undermines those players’ abilities to play well? To quote Mr. Spock: Fascinating!

  32. 32 Rellihcs said at 10:06 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    Not every single instance, but the collective negadelphia, yes. Jimmy Rollins, Donovan, Ryan Howard, many others would agree with me.

  33. 33 ChoTime said at 2:56 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Bitching in the comment section of Igglesblitz does not affect the outcome of the games.

    Booing during the game, yes, that is dumb shit IMO.

  34. 34 Rellihcs said at 9:31 AM on November 20th, 2016:

    One encourages the culture of the other, and in turn influences tbe media who interact with the players directly. It has a cumulative effect and makes it harder to succeed here than in other places.

  35. 35 myartz04 said at 10:17 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    I agree with this.

  36. 36 BlindChow said at 12:38 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    That’s right! It’s MEDIA MIKE’S fault that Kelce is playing like crap! You tell him!

  37. 37 Rellihcs said at 1:24 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Didn’t say so. At all.

  38. 38 Media Mike said at 4:54 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    “Philly fans have a history of decreasing the chances for their athletes to succeed and I think that is pathetically stupid.”

    I was unaware fans were lining up for the other team and causing the decrease in the chances to succeed.

  39. 39 A_T_G said at 1:03 AM on November 20th, 2016:

    This theory seems dependent on an assumption that our comments reach the players. I disagree with that assumption.

  40. 40 Rellihcs said at 9:26 AM on November 20th, 2016:

    Nope, like i said above, not every instance, but collective negadelphianism (?) yes.

    Its not like the kind of comment Media Mike made above only happens on Internet comment boards like this one.

  41. 41 BlindChow said at 12:09 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Apparently you’re not a real fan if you’re realistic instead of irrationally optimistic.

  42. 42 Rellihcs said at 1:23 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    You can be a realist without trashing players before the game and forecasting that they will play poorly.

  43. 43 BobSmith77 said at 5:59 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    They make you wear one of those horrendous yellow and light blue throwbacks from a few years ago with a big letter R on the front for realist.

  44. 44 Gian GEAGLE said at 11:03 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    Our OL playing with two backups was pretty damn good Last week and a key reason for our success against Atlanta. Not ONLY did our OL help put up points against the Atlanta defense, but our OL also played a big role helping limit the opportunities of the Atlanta offense
    With that said, struggling to communicate on the road in noisey seattle really scares me. A rookie QB and a rookie RT having to flawlessly execute the silent count all game is worrisome. It also doesn’t help that our veteran LT and Center are among the league leaders in false start penalties at their positions. It’s so important that our Defense keeps this game close because things can really unravel if we have to ask Wentz to try to comeback from down 10-14 points in this noisey arena against a top notch Secondary.
    If seattle forces us to have to abandon the run, we are fucked. fortunately our DL should have a BIGTIME advantage sunday. OUR OL is probably going to do Better against the seattle front 7, than the Seattle OL will do against the Eagles front 7. fortunately seattle ISNT the most high power offense so we should be able to keep this a close game allowing us to not abandon the run game… handle our business in the trenches, and we have a chance to beat anyone.
    Do we know yet if Micheal Bennett is playing? If he lines up in front of Vaitai on 3rd and 12 while the crowd jacks up the noise, it’s “Good night Irene”
    we better be ready to play one of our most physical games of the season Or seattle will bully us while talking endless amounts of shit the entire time. We need to go into that stadium ready to get gritty, nasty and unleash some Discaplined physicality and punch the bully in his throat early and often..
    Hopefully they are a little worn down by their cross country gut check game against the patriots last week and the human nature łet down dynamic of viewing a rookie QB as no where close to the threat that Brady was last week
    Think we have to come out with a similar strategy as the Falcons game, using TEs and Extra OL to grind out a physical rushing attack. We need like 30 carries from our group of RBs to win this game,, can’t ask wentz to throw 40 times

  45. 45 Media Mike said at 6:56 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    I wonder if Atlanta’s scumbag coach and human filth Neal still want to act like there was nothing wrong on this play?

  46. 46 Gary Barnes said at 8:39 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    I doubt it because they got away with it at the time. Its similar to political candidates lying through their teeth at rallies. They are fact checked later and reported to be lying, but no one pays attention. Fines are a joke no one notices.

    Now if the NFL were really serious about player safety, they would suspend the player for 1 game and would also discipline the ref for missing the call. That would actually have some impact, but, like our political system, unless we demand change nothing will happen.

  47. 47 ChoTime said at 2:55 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Fine em a million dollars, and the hits will stop.

  48. 48 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:35 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    Ridiculous that refs are missing so many big penalties against us… How the fuck do they not throw that flag when jordan takes that vicious hit in the middle of the field in Atlanta territory? That should have been a HUGE 15 yard penalty, 1st down inside the atlanta 20… Despicable. NFL should fine Keanu for the hit, and fine each of the refs for incompetance and making a mockery of player safety agenda
    Don’t even get me started on all the no calls allowing our defensive lineman to be blatantly held all season. The lions game was disgusting. Gifting that Lions offense two Beggining of the game scoring drives allowing our DEs to be held when they were setting the edge defendeing against a run to the outside… Holding the defender setting the edge is one of the primary battles that determine if a run play to the outside is successful or not. You can not gift them those no calls against the defender setting the end. Those plays gave that Lions team life and confidence to start that game when they were on the ropes desperate for a win… These no calls are aggregious enough, but to not protect our key offensive players letting a Falcons safety destroy Mathews helmet is a joke.. That horrible no call might have cost us 7 points in the second half of what was a huge game… We cant get a call, yet they invent bullshit no calls taking away huge plays from us like the Phantom Chop block by SPROLES that the refs invented a few weeks ago that took away like a 30 yard gain in a close game

  49. 49 Nick C said at 10:39 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    I live in atlanta, and the Falcons fans were actually blaming the refs for last Sunday’s game. The bias is real down here.

  50. 50 Aaron said at 7:48 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    watching little rascals this morning

  51. 51 Greg said at 2:23 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Ugh the election is over… Spanky won.

  52. 52 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:20 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    It’s baffling to me how chip kelly Can still be allowed to coach in the NFL..

    It’s no secret that the niners are one of the least talented rosters this year. Well when you play against opponents who have way more talent than you, what you should be doing is try to shorten the game like the Eagles offense did last week against the potent Falcons offense keeping them on the sideline. it’s INSANITY to try to run 70 plays when you are at a significant talent disadvantage. The more plays you run the more chance of your talent disadvantage costing you in a big way..
    How can you be so married to tempo that you are willingly extending games even tho you are at a talent disadvantage every single week? How can an owner or GM be ok with that? After 3 years showing his offense to the NFL, I wonder how many plays each week his offense is benefitting from using tempo to catch a defense off guard causing a big breakdown that the niners offense can capitalize on? And does chip even understand the concept of “point of diminishing returns”?
    Funny to see NFL Films microphones catching chip kissing Bruce Arians ring telling him “coach you know I have so much respect for you” after the Cardinals beat the Niners, even tho Bruce Arians has been talking shit about “college boy” chip and his Gimick offense for years

  53. 53 Greg said at 10:50 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    Chip has proven himself to be an uncompromising fool who can’t make adjustments that are obvious to anyone but him. Can his offense work? Yeah if he has all the right players set up for it. But there is a big difference between the NFL and college. College you can go pick as many players as you want and there is some room for lack of skill in the college level. The way the NFL is set up, you cant have top skill across the team, if you load up on the offense, then the D will suffer. With the stress his offense puts on the D it will never work in the NFL. I don’t know him many years SF will give him, but this will be his last job in the NFL. The key to winning in the NFL is evaluating players, managing the cap, and coaching. The key to coaching is adjusting for the holes on the team. Every team has them, and you have to get the best out of the players you do have. Chip Kelly doesn’t know how to do this.

  54. 54 P_P_K said at 10:55 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    Chip is a textbook case of a guy who doesn’t appreciate the chasm between coaching college and the NFL. He might also be a classic egomaniac.

  55. 55 Gian GEAGLE said at 11:32 AM on November 19th, 2016:

    Pederson really put together a brilliant gameplan against the falcons. He was running some nice plays especially in the run game. We played to Kelce’s strengths allowing him to pull outside and smash defenders in space and we had a lot of success pulling Kelce outside, which set up this gorgeous play call where Pederson has Kelce pull to the outside with the line all showing a run to the outside, which totally sold a play action fake, the entire defense followed Kelce to the outside, which opened up a easy play action pitch n Catch for Jordan slanting inside behind the LBers who followed Kelce outside
    There was a segment on Sportscenter this week where Teddy Bruschi was raving and getting all jacked up about pedersons creativity in the run game along with Peters, Kelce and the OLs execution and he broke down a bunch of examples on the Big screen. Props to Wisnewski and Brooks who were pretty nasty last week. Seems like Brooks has gotten comfortable and has been picking up steam playing better each week while helping young Vaitai along

  56. 56 Greg said at 2:01 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    I don’t think Peterson’s gotten enough credit. Sure he’s made a few rookie coach mistakes, but there are veteran coaches that make some odd/boneheaded decisions. I expected growing pains but this team is way ahead of where I expected them to be. If you consider that they gave the game away on the road to probably the best team in the NFL right now (barf), they could easily be in first place of the best division if a few calls/catches were made in the close losses. Throw in the fact that that changed from a 3-4 D to a 4-3 D and somehow it is one of the best units in the league. They are scoring 20 points or more each game with receivers who arent good at receiving. Doug is doing so much more right than wrong. I think the Eagles can be right there next year and are a playoff caliber team this year whether they make it or not. There will be at least one team that makes the playoffs much worse than the Eagles.

  57. 57 BobSmith77 said at 5:57 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    To paraphrase Winston Wolf a bit more nicely, ‘Let’s not go getting ahead of ourselves.’

    I’d still rather have Reich be calling the plays and let Pederson just be the head coach instead.

  58. 58 Greg said at 7:16 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    I understand what you are saying, and the wheels can fly off any team pretty quickly in this league… A lot of people were about done with Doug after the cowboys game. I was frustrated too but I’m just trying to keep this all in perspective, that this team is still farther along than I ever expected at this point. Doug has a ways to go to be coach of the year. But is fine as a HC so far in my book.

  59. 59 BlindChow said at 12:12 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Seven games have been decided by seven points or less.

  60. 60 BobSmith77 said at 5:54 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Who will the Eagles have to sacrifice to the Lord of the Light to possibly ensure victory this week?

  61. 61 Dragon_Eagle said at 7:40 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Carrie Underwood.

  62. 62 Ark87 said at 12:31 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Don’t think you need much more analysis than they are a better team, one of the strongest home teams in the league, and we are one of the weaker away teams in the league. They should win this comfortably. Here’s hoping for an upset. Hard to imaging winning without special teams having the game of the year.

  63. 63 unhinged said at 12:57 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    They are a great team, and this alone is a motivator, not only for me as a viewer, but must be for the rookie HC and rookie QB as well. If Eagles put together a credible showing, i.e., ready to play, ready to hit, and ready to win, this will be awesome to view. If they beat themselves, as they have become too proficient at, I won’t be shocked, but very disappointed. This game is a big test for coaches and players. All I want is to see them at their best.

  64. 64 SteveH said at 2:36 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Interesting story about Jalen Mills stepping up and volunteering to take Julio Jones in the 2nd half. He actually didn’t look too bad against him, as much as a corner can manage to not look too bad against Jones.

  65. 65 Dave said at 8:16 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Linky? I’ve been busy the past few days and haven’t kept up with the beat writers.

  66. 66 ACViking said at 4:55 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Re: Agholor v. Dwindling Historical Data Points

    Seems every Sunday, Agholor’s play prompts calls for immediately cutting him — or at least requiring him to sit in the corner for 3 hours.

    In response, during the week, a commenter or two (mostly one) insists that Agholor’s just in Y-2 . . . and lots of WRs became good in Y-3.

    FALSE. (Unless you define “good” as equal to Agholor’s current production.)

    Look at the Top-30 WRs this season.

    Only 2 receivers — Emmanuel Sanders and Golden Tate — had weak receiving numbers their 1st and 2nd years.

    In the case of Sanders, he was a 3rd Rd pick of the Steelers — not a 1st — and playing behind Mike Wallace, Hines Ward, and Antonio Brown.

    Golden Tate was Seattle’s 2nd Rd pick in 2010 (60th overall) — not a 1st — and, like Agholor, struggled his first couple years. Then Tate found his niche.

    In the current NFL, the data shows that productive receivers start putting up solid numbers, at a minimum, by Y-2. Not Y-3.

    Looking at the NFL’s Top 50 WRs of All Time, the answer’s very much the same.

    Of that group, only former Falcon 1st Rd pick Roddy White had Agholor-like numbers his first two seasons.

    And that was before the current pass-happy-style of NFL football took hold.

    (An argument could be made that Chris Carter also fits the “he wasn’t good until Y-3.” But in Carter’s Y-2, in a much less pass-friendly NFL, he had 39 receptions for 19.5 YPC and 6 TDs. Already a play-maker in tougher times — with drug issues, as well.)

    Is there hope that Agholor turns things around like Tate did?

    Sure. There’s always hope.

    But this refrain of, “oh, lots of good WRs hit their stride in Y-3” is just not supported by the data.

    Sure, a couple — out of hundreds — have done that.

    But with each game, history seems to be less and less of an ally for Agholor at this point.

  67. 67 myartz04 said at 4:59 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    And he doesnt pass the eye test at all. He just looks defeated all the time.

  68. 68 Greg said at 5:15 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Nice research. I definitely can see how WR can be a position that should be productive by year 2. You run your route and catch the ball. Sure there is downfield blocking that is part of it, but really what you are evaluated on is can you get open, and can you catch? YAC is a bonus. Some receivers like huff hung around due to YAC, but a first round pick should not have to point to that for their value. Ags isn’t getting open, and is dropping the ball in big situations. Bad combo that leads to bust label. I don’t have much sympathy for professional receivers who can’t catch. Looking at you too DGB.

  69. 69 Insomniac said at 5:46 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    The thing with DGB is that we knew he’s super raw. The Titans knew too but they still took him high. He played 2 years in college and didn’t play a snap in his final year. That doesn’t excuse him from being trash but guys like Matthews/Agholor are supposedly “NFL ready”.

  70. 70 Dave said at 8:14 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    I’m holding off judgement until next year for DGB. A lot can happen with a full off season, especially if he is willing to learn and work out with JMatt. DGB definitely miss the skillset to be special, Ags has the skillset to be mediocre.

  71. 71 Insomniac said at 8:58 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    I think it’s fair to judge him for what he is now. The reality is that he’s really behind in development as a WR due to circumstances. An off season might help him but he’ll probably need more than that.

  72. 72 Insomniac said at 5:34 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    There’s still hope for DGB! Who am I kidding.

  73. 73 unhinged said at 5:49 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Great argument, Counselor. Do you have any stats about receivers whose play varies measurably under different QB’s? The best thing I can say in defense of Agholor is he’s not been on a unit with a legitimate #1, nor on a unit with an impressive aerial game. Couple that with first-round $, and I imagine pressure is pretty high. Maybe it’s all too much for Nellie to take.

  74. 74 ChoTime said at 6:42 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Yes, all of them. This article is very wonky and not amazingly definitive, but it does go to show how much things can change from year to year, depending on, well, things.

  75. 75 unhinged said at 4:18 PM on November 20th, 2016:

    Holy crap, that was making my head hurt. Thank you, brother.

  76. 76 Anders said at 5:57 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    With most offensive positions outside of maybe ol it seems you can pretty quickly spot the busts

  77. 77 Dave said at 8:07 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    I think you’re correct as skill positions on O gets the chance to “flash”. McNabb, Wentz, Westbrook, DeSean, Maclin, Shady, even JMatt, flashed glimpses of greatness as rookies and definitely as 2nd year players.

    I would argue Huff flashed with his running ability after the catch and kickoff returns. Ags made a couple good grabs but never showed any real flashes with the ball in his hands or Jason Avant-type catches. It’s why I’m so down on Ags future.

  78. 78 BobSmith77 said at 6:04 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    His ceiling at this point is ‘mediocre starting 2nd WR.’

    I was hoping he that he would be healthy this year, be with a new coach, and at least some flashes this year early on and even have a game or two where be put up 70-80 yards and a score.

    Done known of that despite opportunities and playing time every week. I’m just hoping he ends end contributing a bit more down the stretch and being a 3/4 next year.

  79. 79 A_T_G said at 9:05 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Don’t sweat it, he is Golden.

  80. 80 Howie Littlefinger said at 12:53 AM on November 20th, 2016:

    I hope he finds his niche: but I don’t think the NFL will ever award points for drops

    What does Ag do well or is even ok at? His problems seem to be effort/mental. He is officially a bust who should be benched, maybe that will light a spark if he ever gets another shot

  81. 81 Dragon_Eagle said at 7:46 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Why oh why Andy??!! Why didn’t you trade up to get Russell Wilson when you had the chance? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

  82. 82 Cafone said at 10:36 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    I’d rather have Wentz.

  83. 83 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 11:43 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    You arent over that yet?

  84. 84 Dragon_Eagle said at 7:14 AM on November 20th, 2016:

    Nope. Nor trading Charles Barkley to the Suns.

  85. 85 Dragon_Eagle said at 8:06 PM on November 19th, 2016:

    Found this at the bottom of a BGN article. Good stuff.