Seattle Slew
Posted: November 20th, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 413 Comments »The Eagles led the game 7-6. It felt like the teams were playing evenly. Seattle then took a 13-7 lead. The Eagles responded with a great play that would have given them a 14-13 lead, but there was a penalty flag. Nelson Agholor didn’t line up on the LOS. This didn’t affect the play at all, but the rules call for him to be on the LOS in that situation and he stupidly was a yard off. That simple moment changed the game.
The Eagles punted the ball away and Seattle responded with a FG drive, putting them up 16-7. The game never got that close again.
One little mistake had a huge impact.
That’s what happens when you are the team trying to build something and you’re going against the best team in the NFC. Even tougher, the game was on the road against the team with the best home field advantage in the league. The Seahawks are better than the Eagles. In order to beat them, you have to limit mistakes and you sure can’t wipe out 57-yard TDs.
No one would make the argument that scoring that TD to go up 14-13 meant the Eagles were definitely going to win. That was just the 2nd quarter. Seattle still could have won a blowout. But that was a huge moment. That penalty just killed the Eagles confidence and it seemed to get Seattle going.
Beyond the loss, there are injury concerns.
RT Halapoulivaati Vaitai got hit in the back of the leg and left the game. The medical staff was checking for a torn ACL. Could be something as simple as a hyperextension, but it could be bad news as well. Ryan Mathews left the game with a knee injury of his own and he was limping around after the game. Darren Sproles suffered a rib injury. There were other Eagles getting banged up. This was a costly loss. We won’t know how costly until Monday or Tuesday.
The Eagles now sit at 5-5. Some are going to talk as if the season is over. I don’t see it that way. There are 6 games left and 4 of them are at home. The Eagles can still make the playoffs if they finish strong. Say they go 3-1 at home and 1-1 on the road. That would put them at 9-7. Certainly that’s no lock for the playoffs, but it might be good enough. There are a lot of bunched up teams this year.
It is also possible that the emotion of this loss and the injuries could lead to a bad finish.
I was encouraged by how the Eagles finished. They got down 26-7 and I was thinking “Just run the damn ball and let’s get this over with.” Doug Pederson put the game in Carson Wentz’s hands and the Eagles showed some positive signs. Wentz drove them down for a TD and 2-point conversion to cut the lead to 26-15. The Eagles got the ball back with 3 minutes left. The Eagles marched all the way to the SEA 25-yard line, but a penalty wiped out that play and pushed them back to midfield, where the drive ended.
Wentz had a very up and down game, going 23-45-218 with 2 TDs and 2 INTs. There were times when he looked a bit overwhelmed. He also wasn’t getting much help. WRs had 15 yards well into the 2nd half. In case you weren’t sure, that’s not good. Agholor’s penalty wiped out a long TD pass. Making matters worse, Agholor dropped a pass that would have gone for a minimum of 30 yards.
Think about this. Back in 2014 Seattle came to Philly and beat the Eagles 24-14. That was Mark Sanchez, Jeremy Maclin, LeSean McCoy, Jordan Matthews and Zach Ertz. They put up 139 yards. For the game.
Today you had a rookie QB, banged up OL, injured RBs, were on the road and that group put up 308 yards. The players kept battling. They never gave up. The 4th quarter of the 2 games could not have been more different. Sanchez and his team put up 8 yards of offense. 8 whole yards. Seattle had 79 and worked the clock. Wentz led the Eagles to 143 yards and 8 points in the 4th quarter. He got his team back into the game. Sure, they still lost, but they had Seattle nervous late in the game.
The 2014 loss unraveled that team and they lost the next 2 games. I think this is different. One of the benefits of youth is a short memory. I think Wentz will bounce back from this, as will the whole team. This group has been resilient the whole year so I expect them to keep battling.
Keep your fingers crossed on the injury front. A little luck there would help a lot.
_
Maybe I took it in the wrong way, but did Mathews yell at Went for throwing the ball with some hear heat on that dropped pass that hit him squarely in the hands?
That was my initial reaction to how Matthews was emoting, but I think he was just (hopefully) scolding himself for a drop.
While looking directly at Wentz. Every drop he has he doesn’t really say anything and quickly looks up in the air. This was different.
I got that too
That’s what I saw…I wanted to reach through my TV and slap Matthews across the face.
I’d echo Tommy on looking to bank some wins over the final 6 games. There isn’t a single team on the schedule even half as good as Seattle.
I don’t know… I’ll take the wins, but I’m getting concerned about some of our habits. Also, want to see some changes in personnel, and a game plan around Wentz that builds confidence and let’s him know that carrying the team on his back is not expected or encouraged in the slightest!
everyone in our division
Depends on Matthews and Sproles.
We got smoked, but it happens. Lots of room to grow and improve.
On to the next game
Win vs. Green Bay.
That’ll be when Green Bay finally gets their act together.
hate that teams see us as a “get back game”
Just assume Vaitai is done for the year. Next man up?
https://twitter.com/ProFootballDoc/status/800497957992706048
Not gospel, but Chao is really good.
Hope he’s right. Who takes his place?
Barbre to RT, Wiz at LG
The Lane Johnson gift keeps on giving
Actually, Chao is kind of a fraud and an alcoholic, so I’d take most of what he says with a grain of salt.
Anyone who says they can diagnose a specific knee injury by watching a videotape is 100% full of shit.
[…] Tommy Lawlor The Eagles led the game 7-6. It felt like the teams were playing evenly. Seattle then took a 13-7 […]
This silver lining stuff isn’t working for me… Today’s drubbing was every bit as bad as the last time we played Seattle. And the injuries will likely make the total outcome worse.
The more I watch this team play the longer I think its going to take to recover from Chip Kelly.
personally i don’t think it’s chip kelly and it’s unclear to me if howie is the guy that will draft our way out of this. skins have had same coach an qb for 3 years, giants and eli for many years, dallas has been together for a while as well even though that team is young.
point is this will take time.
Well, we went from having a pretty dynamic group of receivers to literally the worst group of receivers in the game and cast away one of the most dynamic group of running backs to turn it into an old sproles and some journeymen. All under Kelly.
To say nothing of ignoring the OL
Djax been impressing you in WAS? Heard Maclin’s name much in KC? That’s $20m in cap space.
Lots of 1st rd WRs take a while. Kevin White? Perriman? What i don’t understand is why they can’t find a spot for him in the bench
He’d still be better than anyone on the Eagles.
As much as I agree Kelly disabled the team, it was Howie that got rid of Murray who is currently #2 in rushing yards, with 1000 over 10 games.
this team sucks hippo balls
Nelson Agholor deserves to be a Cleveland Brown.
He deserves to be in charge of fries at his local burger king.
He’d drop them.
I didn’t say he’d keep the job….
“dropping fries” means putting them in the fryer…
I didn’t expect them to win this game so I’m not too concerned by the fact that they were beaten convincingly. The Seahawks are really good and Seattle is a very tough place to play.
That said, the injuries suck. This team was already thin on the OL and losing more guys is going to hurt. And Agholor sucks. For all these years I thought for sure that Freddie Mitchell would never be surpassed as the worst first round WR of my lifetime.. change that. At least Mitchell had 4th-and-26 and was occasionally entertaining in a buffoonish way. Agholor is not only a terrible player on the field but seems like a surly ***hole off of it.
God, the Packers are awful. How are you awful with Aaron Rodgers and that many top 100 draft picks on defense and OL on your team?
Oh, I’m sure they’ll look great next week…
On Agholor’s bad drop for what would have been 30 yards, he had some pretty damn good separation. I have to hand it to Dug for sticking with Agholor and trying to get him over his mental issues. True that Agholor is hurting this team but right now, there isn’t much better option. question asked to Dug: What do you do when a player goes through a stretch like this?
“Any time a player goes through a rough spell, yes, it can play on the psyche of the player. From my standpoint as a coach, I need to keep putting him out there, keep trusting, keep encouraging, keep working, and keep fighting because he’s part of our team, and we’ve got to keep plugging away. He’s got to fight through it, he’s got to learn to not listen to the outside world, and just focus on the internal and focus on getting better.”
I’m sure coddling him will work eventually, right…? By season seven, surely!
Don’t get me wrong, he needs to go. If he doesn’t have the psychological fortitude to withstand this, I don’t think he is worth having. I’m sure other have had the same problem but according to ACV’s excellent information, the WR who are shit in year 1 & 2, are shit forever.
I’m not even sure if it’s mental at this point. He’s proving that he’s just not suited to be a NFL WR.
he gets open
i think he need some easier balls to catch, screens, comeback routes, in breaking routes where ball is thrown into his body.
Wow… If that’s what it takes, he surely is not NFL material
in basketball they say sometimes you just need to see the ball go in the hoop…
He’s taken the equivalent of like 10,000 shots at the basket, lol 🙂
Carson Wentz moves like a Manning. I wish he was little bit more faster in escaping pressure.
Seems like he has gotten a bit slower as the season has progressed and he has taken more hits.
I agree. I never expected him to be a runner, but I was hoping for more scrambling speed out of the pocket.
The lack of mobility is concerning… Obviously he’s not Russell Wilson back there, but I don’t think it’s a speed thing; he seems to either not see the opportunities, or it’s been drilled into him to stay in the pocket (my guess is it’s the latter). They need to get him moving, though… Success on offense depends on it, especially given the lack of weapons at his disposal.
be interesting if they made him more like RW in terms of free-lancing / scrambingl
Barwin is miscast as a DE. He has been such a disappointment this year. Cant keep contain for the life of him…Would like to see more of MSII… He is setting the edge real well. Jalen Watkins showed his softness again. It s minor miracle that we have 8 draft picks next year. We’ll need half of them to hit. Smallwood continues to earn his time…
Disappointing loss, but Wilson’s escapability was the true difference in the game. His ESP of oncoming rushers is incredible. Ashame some of the blitzes early.in the game, were negated by false starts….
How is Watkins soft? He couldn’t shed a 300+ pound OL and couldn’t bring down a 255+ pound TE so that makes him soft. You people are ridiculous.
You people.. eh.Situational awareness should lend him the foresight to atleast hang on for dear life. He was grabby and it cost him/team. Graham wasn’t on the move.
What are you even talking about? He tried and couldn’t do it so he’s soft? You want fucking soft? Go look at our overpaid and overrated TE in Ertz.
Thanks. The ball came down to stationary players. You could say he made a play for the ball and/or strip but He’s a safety and expected to keep the play in front of him. Ertz is a disappointment for sure… No shake, explosion, or power.
I do think Ertz is playing fairly banged up but when did people expect him to ‘shake/explode/power’ when that isn’t what he did his first 3 years in the league?
To insomniacs point is he earning his contract?
No he isn’t but not many people brought that up on here when he got resigned. I did and didn’t think he was ever going to be a Top 10 TE but he got paid like one.
I still didn’t mind that contract as the one that Curry got. Getting paid starting decent DE and he is a situational role player who hasn’t played that well & isn’t a great fit for this scheme.
I thought you were crazy on Curry but you were correct. I can barely remember his name being called the whole year.
It wasn’t so much hating on Curry or what he couldn’t do. It was they paid him starter money (and decent starter money at that) for what he had done 2 years ago in ’14.
Just didn’t make much sense except that he was a Roseman draft pick and my sense is that Roseman did what he did in part because of that fact.
The investment in Curry will pay off eventually.
i think he could be a top 10 TE – he could go for a 100 a game, but doing more WR things than TE things
Lets hope Curry is in another Graham/Washburn situation. I have no clue why Barwin is playing DE when he’s so very ineffective at it so far.
he can explode into the dirt like a champ
Oh yea he had to keep
1. keep one of the best TEs within his reach and sight
2. did you know that was on a scramble play?
3. trying to hold onto a spinning guy that has 60+ pounds on you
4. he’s not you so he’s soft
yea you’re pretty ridiculous.
Whatever. I am unrealistic. He couldn’t possibly have tried to trip him up…
Trip him up with what? His legs? Go watch the replay. He got spun around and had to reset his footing. Lets keep calling him soft when McLeod wanted no part of Graham when he was the last line of defense.
He barely tried. It was more of an ole
had is his best game rac wis today, it’s a shame he won’t get credit
Today, for a moment, the Ertz moved!
I don’t know if he’s miscast or he’s just a 30+ year old player. It’s a shame he does not seem to have profited from the switch to the 4-3. He may be gone after this season to make salary cap room. I would be sorry to see him go.
When he eventually retires I would bring him back and put him in charge of player relations as it pertains to finding players cool places to live in the city where they use public transportation and don’t have to worry about DUIs and guns and weed in cars and such.
Connor seems to be an authentically cool guy.
I don’t really like baseball but I am a Cubs fan. My wife and her family are bit into it and honestly, it was amazing watching their reaction to the World Series. I can’t wait to have that with the Eagles…
Don’t hold your breath.
I haven’t exhaled since 1960.
The sky isn’t falling, we all had to expect a loss to Seattle and a tough game. I’ll admit the way we lost was very frustrating, Agholor leading the way on that end of course, but also our DL didn’t come through again. Russell Wilson can be sacked, we just didn’t get it done today.
We beat one of the better teams in the NFC (the Falcons) we should have beat Dallas and we didn’t, and now we got our butts handed to us by the best team in the NFC in their home stadium. No shame in the loss. On to Green Bay.
Agree with a few others on here that there is no ‘silver lining’ with the injuries they sustained today.
Mathews has a possible MCL tear and would be obviously be done for the year. Even a severe sprain likely finishes his season. Sproles has at a minimum severely bruised ribs. Then Vaitai.
This was an offense that already had been struggling pretty badly and with those three injuries out would be very hard pressed to score 20+ pts. One thing to expect the defense/special teams to be this team’s strength and another to have not have a good chance to win when the team gives up 18+ pts.
They can still win 2 or 3 games if those 3 are out but the chances of them going 5-1 including sweeping the NFC East rematches as pretty darn remote.
The silver lining is that we’ll correctly prioritize running back in the draft next year. Maybe not with the #1 but with the #2, given the talent. Instead of wishing and hoping that Mathews is the answer long term.
This was almost certainly going to be Mathews last year one way or another.
The question now is whether Smallwood or Barner shows more and has the inside track as the primary backup going into camp next year.
Smallwood is your inside guy, a one-cut-and-go cannonball slicing through the middle of defenses. Barner is your fastball change-of-pace with the ability to get to the edge and turn the corner.
I wouldn’t. I know it’s a running back rich draft but they have other needs.
I’d be comfortable going with Smallwood as the primary back with Barner rotating in.
I’d also be comfortable with keeping Mathews around if they can negotiate his number down. I doubt people would line up to outbid us and he’s a great runner until he gets injured. If you’re comfortable with his backup as a #1 (Smallwood) and he’s not costing too much, why not get 100-150 carries out of him before he goes down. He’ll help win games and keep the other guys fresh.
It depends. I certainly wouldn’t go RB in round 1 but certainly in round 2 or 3 if they like someone.
I know it is sacrilege given the WR hate but I would rather see an OL (especially if there is a T they really like) or CB in the 1st round. There was a few plays today where the Seahawks’ WRs were so wide open that you couldn’t see an Eagles’ DB in the screen when they caught the ball.
Merrill Reese joked about it on the one Baldwin catch in the 2nd half and said that there wasn’t an Eagles’ DB in the same county on the play.
I don’t think he’s a great runner before he gets hurt. MAYBE “good”… Maybe
DGB did look like an actual NFL receiver that last drive. Not sure what changed, but the TD route was actually pretty good.
I wonder how hard it would be to start a ‘Eagles sign 42-year old TO’ fake news to trend this this week on Twitter . . .
If only they could transplant Mills’ confidence into Agholor’s head.
This is the best post you have ever made, and in contention for one of my favorites by anyone ever. Only because I truly, truly wish we had the technology to make it happen.
Mills is way more confident than he has any reason to be. Agholor has all the talent in the world but can’t get his dick on straight. Combine the two and we’d have an unstoppable receiver.
But we’d still have to figure out what to do with the leftovers, the one who combines the worst of the two.
We do have the technology. It’s all about finding the correct pharmaceutical combination.
I’d start with Xanax and lots of cocaine.
What if it goes wrong and there’s a 6’1″ guy with two heads constantly yapping at each other? A wide receiver and a cornerback locked together for life in endless conflict. We have to proceed with caution.
The Cowboys did this with great success in the 1990s.
Keep Lane far away from any of that.
You know, I’m really not sure that would do it. He played well in college, no doubt, but he just does not seem to have the tools to make it in the NFL. Let’s start with his hands: is it actually necessary that he use his body to catch the ball??
The thing that bothers me is we might be the only team in the NFC East to miss the playoffs. Are we really a last place team? Are both the Giants and Redskins really better than us? It would be horrible to see all 3 of them make it and us be the team watching from the couch.
People say we have a rookie HC and QB… well Dallas has a rookie QB and NYG has a rookie HC.
I’d be curious to see the numbers, but it certainly didn’t help us that all of the other teams in the East won today. Not even for divisional rankings, but simply for conference rankings for the wildcard. At least we have some control over our destiny in that we get to play through them each one more time. All home games, too, if I’m not mistaken.
Giants are 7-3. Gotta think that puts them close to out of reach
yes – hopefully homefield advantage will matter for last 3 divisional games, but Dallas and Skins have both been trending up for a while
Frankly, my only wish is that Giants and skins have great seasons and somehow don’t make it.
Skins playing well hasn’t surprised me. I thought they would go 10-6 this year and repeat as NFC East champs. Like their GM more than any other in the NFC East including Roseman. Snyder is finally largely saying out of the way of football-related decisions which is a really bad thing too if your an Eagles’ fan.
Just didn’t see Prescott coming in for Romo and doing what he is doing as well as Elliott playing at a possible MVP level. I had the Boys at 8-8 and as well as the Giants with the Eagles 6-10.
They all have veteran QB’s (Dallas was built for Romo). They all chose to build teams that could win 10 games and possibly go far in the playoffs if their QB gets hot. Different circumstances. We decided to build for the future. Playing young, unproven guys is tough. Remember the beating Eli took as a rookie? He has two rings.
I disagree; I think we’re built to win now. We signed a veteran QB (Bradford) and resigned players with mileage for the D. Our best offensive players–Sproles, Mathews–are vets, and Celek is still on the team. They changed course midstream when the opportunity to draft Wentz came up, but it wasn’t the plan all along.
Prior to the trade with Cleveland to get #2, I would agree with you. That trade changed everything. We were no longer in a position to improve the team significantly for 2016. We were stuck with what we had. Sproles is interesting, because he could have asked for his release. Mathews is gone after the season. Celek is probably happy to retire an Eagle.
This story headline did make me laugh:
‘Browns eliminated from playoff contention with latest loss’
Agholor and Pederson after the game today at the airport:
http://i.imgur.com/SmbuNzt.gif
Was this Pederson telling Agholor that he wasn’t coming home with the team?
Classic – ‘It’s not your fault’ scene from Good Will Hunting
Agholor is not getting cut. (source: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/nelson-agholor-16744/)
If it helps, think of him as a bad roommate. The lease has been signed so you better just get used to living with them.
Maybe he’ll get his shit together or maybe he won’t, but we might as well hope that he does because he’s not going anywhere.
not sure why he’s such a big part of the offense still.
I guess because he was better than Rueben Randle and Chris Givens.
you really think so? or b/c they’re significantly more invested
They’ve seemingly tried everything to get him going… All in vain
Well he will make it to 53 man cut down day in 2017. If he is not one of the best 5/6 WR’s at that point they may just cut him to be done with it and take the pain but he will have at least until then to try and make an impact.
For a guy who was supposed to be banged up and not quite as fast as he was previously, you could have fooled me about how fast Wilson was while rolling out of the pocket or scrambling.
yeah he’s back into form right in time for fantasy playoffs – good think i dropped him weeks ago.
if we don’t cook green bay i’m done with this team for this season.
They beat Green Bay and Cincinnati, win all three division games at home, lose to Baltimore, end up 10-6 and go to the playoffs.
Time to put the booze down..
I’m not saying it’s easy, but it’s not far-fetched either. I think all I did there was pick the favorite in each game. Green Bay and Cincinnati both have losing records. The Redskins and Giants are definitely beatable at home. And Dallas is the last game of the season and they will probably be resting starters for the playoffs.
No, it’s definitely not out of the question, and I would love to see it happen (a history of winning and a little playoff experience never hurts), but I think the probability is quite low… I think (hope) the defense can rebound, but assuming no special teams heroics and continued ineptitude on offense (the base case coming into the season, ironically), I think a .500 record is a good goal to short for. I’m thinking even that could be difficult, but we’ll see…
Kempski deliciously roasted Agholor in his handing out 10 awards… Good stuff.
not sure how much more he can beat that dead horse. Ags isn’t the reason we lost that game. didn’t toss two picks, didn’t let prosise run for a 74yd td to start the game.
Agholor wasn’t the ONLY reason, but he was a big reason why. If he doesn’t line up incorrectly on that long TD, it changes the flow of the game. If we’re in a closer game does Wentz start forcing things? Who knows. I don’t know if we win the game anyways, but Agholor’s facepalm moments are definitely costing the team now.
yeah we that as a td that got called back, but the flag was thrown straight away so could make an argument that seattle took that play off – in the same way aaron rodgers always gets a % if his TDs on those broken plays.
Sure you could argue that, but I don’t think the Seahawks would have tried to tackle him down the field if they took the play off.
No single player loses a game for a team, but his mistakes took away all momentum and put us in a hole against a better team on the road. His mistakes did have an impact on how the rest of that game played out
His 10 Awards are on my regular reading list.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/314ac9288d27166449670357f5329991b880e7e7c9cff66b3c509301aae3ef7e.jpg
when you sit down at a poker table and can’t find who the mark is, it’s probably you. If you line up on the non-TE side and don’t see anybody else at the LOS — it’s probably you….
It’s on Agholar for not checking with the ref. But he looks like he’s at the exact same level as Jason Peters. If the ref thinks Peters is on the line, he shouldn’t have thrown the flag
He’s about a 1/2 yard behind Peters – and Peters is right at the limit where he’s too far back (his head needs to be at the Center’s waist line). Ticky-tack, but that’s why he is supposed to look at the ref before he sets up. The ref will wave him forward if he checks with him.
Thats even worse news.. instead of barking about it Pederson shlould have thrown challenge flag.. ahh prolly isnt reviewable but way over it ny now.. way to twist a brother up
Is it too late to have a try out for pedestrians to take AG’s spot? Pretty sure I’d catch a pass that hit me in the hands for a cool mill. I honestly can’t think of a player that has induced so much rage. We should prob dust T.O off he would be a huge upgrade over what we have now.
I dunno man, last time TO was regularly playing he was leading the league in drops.. and I can’t imagine time has made his hands any softer, given he’ll have a much harder time getting open.
All sports news is terrible today.
I haven’t seen much discussion about this (maybe I missed it), but should Doug have called a timeout from the sidelines on the play where Agohlar was lined up wrong? He was yelling at Agohlar on thee sideline and standing right next to the ref, so should he have called a timeout before the ball was snapped?
Some people have brought it up, and I don’t know if the beat writers asked him in the post game conference. I’m assuming with it being close to the half, he wanted to save the time out and just take the 5 yards. He had no way of knowing Ertz would break it for a TD.
Yeah. You don’t waste a TO there. Tough situation, but that screen play is really only designed for 5-7 yards. If Ertz is tackled short of the sticks, nobody cares.
I thought Doug finally got it when Trey Burton was split out wide on the first play and caught a pass for an immediate first down. Not so much as he was only targeted 2 more times (1 was a catch but called back due to a penalty).
Doug is treating Ags like a baseball manager treats a player in a hitting slump, just keep giving him at bats until he regains his stroke. The problem is, Ags is still working off his stats at USC and has yet to show anything against NFL-caliber defensive backs.
Burton has been nothing short of solid as a receiver when given the chance to play over the past 2 years. He came out of college at 224 pounds, 12 pounds more than JMatt. It’s not like he’s some 250 lb lumbering TE who cannot run routes against DBs. I’d love for some of the beat writers to repeatedly ask Doug why Burton has very little involvement in the offense when he has proven to have exceptional hands and route-running ability.
“and has yet to show anything against NFL-caliber defensive backs”…or NFL caliber five yards of air.
Or NFL-caliber officiating
Your second paragraph is spot on.
I dont thimk nelson agholor sucks. I think he is talented and needs to execute. What i have been unimpressed with is dpug pedersons personnel choices and playcalling. Consistency not only applies to play but also playcalling. However the eagles have not evaluated talent well. There are to many holes on this team to expect more than bengal level success over the next couple of years. And remember, they have aj green
AJ Green was carted off the field yesterday. They’re reporting a tear in his hamstring.
“I don’t thimk nelson agholor sucks” …. “the eagles have not evaluated talent well”….
…….
on a more serious note…A QB with a second concussion. NFL is a tough league…please keep Wentz healthy in his 1st year.
No, he sucks.
He sucks.
How can you fault the play calling when the receiver doesn’t line up correctly (he’s been doing since he was a kid, so he should need to be “coached up” on it) or simply drops the ball on a wide open crossing route that hit him right in the hands!
Yeah, he sucks!
A 1st for DeAndre Hopkins? Would you do it?
Also in relation to a previous conversation here:
If Wentz had someone like TO the Eagles would be sitting at 7-3 at least.
Not sure we need to give up assets. Alshon Jeffrey, Michael Floyd, Desean Jackson, Ted Ginn, Terrence Williams, Brandon Lafell, Percy Harvin. All UFA’s. Howie can get two of these guys easily under the cap.
Percy Harvin?
If he’s healthy, might be worth a shot. Offers value as KR/PR
Please no. He’s a head case.
I’d take DeSean in a heartbeat though.
Fair point. Just throwing out some names. AJ is obviously the big fish, but the list does contain some interesting names. Terrence Williams & Brandon Lafell would be a nice backup plan if we can’t get Jeffrey.
significant change they’ll come here and look bad like everyone else
Looking at the market and those available i am genuinely thinking DeSean and a couple of draft picks is about as well as we can do in FA. Gin/Williams/Lafell/Harvin and 3rd wr’s or worse frankly, Jeffrery will be hella expensive and risky with his drug bust and we already have a player kind of like him in Jordan Matthews.
I am not on the you must draft WR with 1st pick bandwagon, but i do think we need to address that position at least 1 time in rounds 1-3 and probably hit it again 1-2 times later in the draft as well to help restock the group which is looking really thin after Huff cut and Agholor being in career tailspin.
I’m hoping to see Howie give the Jets a 5th round pick for Brandon Marshall since they are probably going to take a step back Next year with a young QB And Marshall probably doesn’t love the idea of wasting the end of his career with playing with Hackenburg… The Jets also have some nice WRs in place so they can probably afford to give up Marshall
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Having Brandon Marshall for the next two years buys us two years to draft and Develope young WRs and it will be valuable to have our young WRs lerning from an Elite Veteran
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#bringBrandonMarshallToPhilly
#HeIsWearingTheWrongShadeOfGreen
hard to take the rest of is seriously
No.
Hopkins is 10x better than those guys. He won’t be available though.
Alshon is the only person on that list to seriously consider an elite player.
There is plenty of room to improve the corp short of elite.
True. However, some of those guys would help the receiving corps as a whole. We don’t know what AJ is thinking. He might already have decided where he wants to sign.
FA are risky and expensive, many do not pan out as the Eagles (hopefully) have learned recently. This is why it is critical that we are very good at evaluating, drafting and developing talent. It is still the best way to build a sustainable & competitive roster under the cap.
D-Jac has already lost some speed, so I doubt he’ll be worth the price he’s going to want. That being said, I do have two of his jerseys, so I’d be happy if he came back (at a modest price).
Hopkins is worth the first over all.
Absolutely. We suck at picking in the first round. Spend the money on someone who we know isn’t a bust.
The Rams should just trade us Todd Gurley instead of wasting his career
In general we hung in there against Seattle in their house, as an East Coast team. With a rookie QB… vs that defense. Over-all, as a team in the position of being last place in the division, with a rookie QB… this should be a moral victory. Of course we are WINNERS (that never win) and don’t see it that way, but hey…thats what I love about being an Eagles fan.
I have to say that most penalties I usually am angry at coaches just as much as players. On that long TD called back though… that is 100% on Nelson. He has known the rules there for 15 years. In excusable. There is a reason that is a rare penalties, and you NEVER see good receivers do it.
game was over at halftime
If the Eagles keep that TD, it’s 14-13 at that point. Who knows how it would have unfolded. Additionally, if Algholar would have caught that crossing route in the 2nd half, it would have moved the Eagles 30 yards or more (he was wide open in stride) down the field. It would have put them in FG range right then.
had a lot of possessions in the second half. only a garbage time td came out of it.
It felt that way, but it was not actually a score that was insurmountable.
Yep – he’s supposed to look into the line when he lines up, then look at the ref and point at him (“am I okay here”?) – the ref will usually wave the receiver forward if they do that. By not looking, he cost 7 points!
I thought the refs would help them out with that, but didn’t mention it because I wasn’t sure.
Yep, that’s why they always look and point to the ref to confirm. If you look at the video, you can see the ref waving him forward (along with Greg Lewis I believe it was) but he didn’t even look.
Yep. Take that ass to the bench.
Agholor still can be a talented receiver. I don’t think he is unredeemable. But his confidence is shot. Sit him and let him earn his way back to playing time. You do him and the team no good by continuing to let him destroy his confidence by going out there unprepared.
hands of stone
What makes you think he can still be a good receiver? Most of the passes he drops hit him right in the hands. I think the entire football world was shocked when he caught that pass for the conversion yesterday!
He’s produced in college. He may have been over drafted by Chip, but it’s not like the dude was going to go undrafted if we didn’t take him. I imagine every team in the league would have liked him in at least the 3rd. My point being that he’s capable of doing everything that he’s asked to do on this team, but his head is now getting in the way.
I’ve seen people stuck in ruts before. This is how it goes. One mistake leads to another, and then another and another. Completely breaks your confidence See the quicksand speech in The Replacements. Confidence is why a guy like Mills can play so far above his measurables, and a guy like Agholor is not. If he can get his head on straight, he’ll be exactly what we thought he could be. But that’s going to take the time to build him back up. You really wish you could get a movie montage on that one.
It’s kind of amazing how many of you still have some faith in Agholor. I see a guy that has no heart. His mistakes don’t seem to bother him. He even said that drops are not the reason they are losing games. The guy has no fight.
I think most people have already given up on him. I do question how you can judge someone as a person in such a short time.
Discussion on late-blooming WRs:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=7773012
Actions. Dez and ODB act like children some times, but you can see their competitive fire. Agholor looks like he is just there to collect a pay check. Obviously I don’t “know”, but it’s the impressionI get. His play doesn’t dispute this in any way
I don’t totally disagree, but you are comparing two HOF-type guys with a slumping young scrub. There are good players with laid-back personalities, too.
What are you referring to when you say he “looks like he is just there to collect a paycheck?”
To me, the hitting himself in the helmet, the blowup at reporters, the body language points to a guy that is extremely frustrated and pressing.
This doesn’t sound like a guy with no heart:
https://twitter.com/LesBowen/status/800747779706552325
Terrell Pryor called out the Browns’ front office today for not putting resources into the O-line. Makes me wonder if he will want to stay there long term.
Also, I think this might be the worst game Wentz has had so far. He was off the mark a handful of times, stared down his receiver (which led to an int) and threw into double coverage, which I thought was pretty surprising. I’m not bashing him, just saying what I noticed. He still played well given the circumstances.
think TP is our best hope
He is a RFA so will be impossible to get next year – and he has said he owes the team a lot for investing and believing in him. Browns will need to break the cycle of letting young players play 4 years and then leave for better teams – have a huge amount of cap to make a huge offer with to Pryor this year that is front loaded, keeping a long term piece and sending a message to a locker room that they will keep their best players.
“Pryor’s contract is up after this year and he’ll be an unrestricted free agent if the Browns don’t re-sign him first.”
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/10/terrelle_pryor_and_browns_have.html
I was unaware he was a RFA, that changes everything.
“you’re going against the best team in the NFC.”
Are we still pretending the Seahawks are better than Dallas?
Yeah they are. We should have beaten Dallas and would have except for RB fumble letting them back in the game, and won couple of other games in similar ways. They are playing weakest schedule due to being worst NFC East team last year. That defence is improved on the back end but is still poor up front and an the inevitable Sean Lee injury away from falling apart up front.
While Seahawks struggled earlier due to Wilson Injury and starting one of the greenest OL’s in NFL history.. but both of those things are improving and they will play better in December.
One advantage to being the worst team in the NFC East this year is that next year we get that sweet, sweet loser’s schedule!
Seattle is red hot right now, the Defense we all know about, but the offense has kicked it up in a huge way these past 3 weeks, against good defenses. If they keep it up they are the most complete team in the league. I think Seattle is better than Dallas at Seattle, but advantage to Dallas in the playoffs with home field advantage (most likely).
Same thing we saw last year… Wilson and Seattle offense struggled the first half of last season, and then wilson elevated his game and was one of the very best QBs during the second half of last season… Looks like THATS happening again this year
YES.
(puts fingers in ears, hums loudly)
Golf clap
Yes, I hope to god the Cowboys get to play the Seahawks. I would LOVE to see that.
I’d take battle tested seattle over inexperienced Cowboy team if they face each other in the playoffs… Regular season, I’d probably give the edge to the Cowboys especially if the game isn’t in Seattle
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But Dallas certainly needs to be respected. You know you have a serious team on your hands when your rookie QB gets to play in clean pockets throwing to wide open WRs all year..Daks idea of a tough throw is throwing it up to Dez Bryant whp out jumps the corner….
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Im pretty sure Dak is a good QB, but I have no idea how good he is because of them having so much talent that it’s making it about as easy to play QB for them as we will ever consistently see.. Im not trying to take anything away from Dak, but how often can Wentz throw a simple Slant and count on the WR turning it into a TD? How hard is it to throw a jump ball to DEZ who has a smaller defender behind him that he can easily sheild with his body making it any easy pitch n catch TD…. He got to throw a TD to a completely wide open Jason Witten in frigging overtime… Dak looks like an intelligent accurate passer Who is going to have a great career, but facing so little adversity makes it hard to really evaluate how good he is. Most starting pro QBs will look really accurate if they get to stand in the pocket with so little threat of getting hit, and if that’s not enough help, he is playing behind an ALL World run game. Playing QB in the NFL won’t always be this easy for Dak, but we can’t deny that it seems like Dallas found its franchise QB
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Kirk Cousins has pretty much earned a monster contract from the skins
The Packers have given up 1,239 passing yards in the last four games.
Opposing teams have scored 153 points over that span including at least 40 in the last two games. Carson Wentz has struggled recently, but he has a great get-right spot at home against Green Bay on Monday night. Unfortunately, the Eagles are likely to attempt the same ball-control offense which netted them a win against the Falcons in Week 10, putting a damper on Wentz’s streaming appeal.
We are NASTY at Home, and Schwartz will probably have our team pissed off and ready to take this seattle loss out on the Packers on prime time for everyone to see
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It’s bad enough that the Packers have one of the worst run games in the NFL, but they are also dealing with a beat up Offensve Line, our Front 7 should have a huge game playing at home on Monday night against a GB team that is unraveling and imploding more with each week that passes.
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fortunately the Packers defense isn’t scaring anyone, we should be able to run the ball well against them, while their run game will be non existent…
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I’d be very surprised if we lost this game. This is an Eagles win all the way
I’d imagine this has more to do with Agholor than Grymes, but it is the right move. Despite everything, Grymes has less potential.
https://twitter.com/EaglesInsider/status/800746987415027712
The People Have Spoken.
Looked to me like the medical staff was checking for an MCL not ACL. And, it looked intact at least on the TV from what I could see.
The Paul Turner Era has begun. Turner was signed to the active roster and Aaron Grymes was released (I’m assuming they’ll re-sign him to the practice squad).
We are stuck with Agholor, but he needs to be benched, and not be played again until he earns snaps. Like if he had a very impressive off-season. We know he has some talent to be drafted where he was, but we need to let him hit rock bottom for him to have any chance at turning his career around. He is just garbage right now.
In related news:
https://twitter.com/EliotShorrParks/status/800481934086287360
https://twitter.com/975TheFanatic/status/800472246468784128
https://twitter.com/Jeff_McLane/status/800469570561581057
Pretty hard to earn snaps sitting on the bench. I think they have to keep playing him, that is the only way he can get better IMO
agree
I also agree, but I would Bench him for the Packers game and give him his spot back against the Bengals
I don’t know, I think he has a ton of fundamentals to work on. tune up the route running to go with his athleticism. Plenty to be gained in practice in my opinion. I think we’ve probably already destroyed him, but I think he won’t get better as long as he’s playing with something to lose (his job). He needs to go ahead and lose that job. Hit rock bottom, get out of the spot light, come back with and play with something to gain after some hard work in the off season. Just my 2 cents.
He should be benched for the Packers game, and then be given his spot back for the Bengals game,.. I agree with a one game punishment to hold Him accountable and take a break from the quicksand he is drowning in.. But I don’t agree with demoting him for the rest of the season… If we aren’t going anywhere this year, yoûng players like Nelson should play as much as possible
Possibly, but he needs to be getting something out of the in game experience. We’ve seen tons of QB’s get ruined by negative exposure. I think we need to get him out of the spotlight. Let him get a ton of practice, have a productive off season, come back with some feeling that he improved, some confidence, and hungry to win his job back. I think that’s the only way he will turn things around.
Where is the line where the roster space is worth more than the cap hit. I mean I literally watch 5 games a week, not including flipping back and forth between some and I literally get jealous when teams 4th or 5th receivers make spectacular catches when our 1 or 2 can’t make simple ones.
I think we’re talking about 2 million or so extra, and our budget is pretty tight, and our roster is chock full of disposable players we don’t absolutely need if we reaaaally need to clear a spot for the FA we really want, or all the rookies we want to keep.
So that’s the trifecta, cap hit+not a bunch of cap space+ only really having maybe 30 players who are a part of this team’s future so we have plenty of disposable filler roster spots=Agholor will be here.
Plus there is upside (that he probably won’t get to), but I really think he needs to get out of the starting line up/spotlight for a good long while. It’s not good for the team for him to be playing, and I don’t think it’s in his self-interest to be out there either, just my opinion on the second part though.
CSN Philly’s Reuben Frank said Eagles coach Doug Pederson “sounds like” he will give Nelson Agholor “some time off” this week.
What that means is up for discussion, but the Eagles did add WR Paul Turner off the practice squad on Monday. It is likely Agholor will at best see his role in the offense reduced. No Eagles receiver outside of Jordan Matthews is worth rostering in redraft leagues.
They should have him practicing special teams. Find a way to contribute, be humbled, and maybe getting a little dirty will get him out of his head.
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe a few punt/KO returns. Our ST units are really good. A few good returns may boost his confidence.
Not punt. He will drop it…
Maybe, or maybe coverage. Totally take handling the ball out of the equation and just run fast and hit someone.
good call.
And give him a chance to ruin even more plays with untimely and stupid penalties? No thank you!
I must say I am feeling bad for Agholor.
Not that I don’t think he’s been a total bust so far, but I am feeling sorry for him.
You are right. We should all just drop it.
After all, he would.
Excellent…
Clearly Nelson has been thrust into a major role so early in his career that he isn’t prepared for….
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This is exactly why I feel so strongly against Drafting kids and penciling them in as day 1 starters immediately, but Chip the GM made such a mess that we really didmt have a choice but to thrust Nelson into the #1 WR role from day 1
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Way too soon to rule him out Longterm, but a year and a half into his NFL career, he CLEARLY IS NOT READY to be a #1 WR
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Hopefully we eventually see a similar transformation as Josh Huff.. Last year (Huffs second NFL season), this FANBASE hated huff and viewed him as,an even bigger bust than Agholar (at the time)… Yet eventually we saw a really signifcant transformation from Huff being public enemy #1 in Philly (during his second season) while eventually figuring it out and becoming a nice contributor to the Eagles this year (his 3rd season)… Pretty big difference between yeàr 2 Huff, and yeàr 3 Huff… Hopefully we get lucky and see a similar transformation in Agholar eventually… We only have 4 WRs. So even if we keep Nelson next year which is probably likely to happen, we still need to add a WR.. Cutting Huff or Treggs would mean needing to add two Wrs next offseason and we probably have too many needs to address for us to add more than 1 WR upgrade this offseason
Maybe Agholor will “transform[ ]” like Josh Huff?
That’s ridiculous.
In 7 games this year, Huff had 13 catches for 77 yards . . . a 5.5 YPC average.
That would be an even worse regression for Agholor than’s he’s suffered from Y-1 to Y-2.
Of course . . . in a fact-free world, your post is fantastic.
I wouldn’t rule out Treggs coming back next year. At least I would like to see him after a full off season in this offense. Such a shame he couldn’t haul in Carson’s great long ball yesterday…
Yeah I’d like to see us bring Treggs back to training camp at least. Hopefully we can create a big WR competition at Camp and let the 5 best WRs win roster spots
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Im hoping we trade a 5th round pick for Brandon Marshall that way Wemtz gets a #1 WR that makes tôugh catches for him while he developes
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marshall also pushes jordan, Nelson. And DGB into complimentary roles that they can hopefully handle Better. And those young Wrs get to learn from a veteran mentor who is one of the best in the business, and marshall is a big body WR so he should be able to teach tricks of the trade that translate to bigger Wrs like Jordan and DGB.
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I figure Marshall has two solid years left in him, so it would buy us two years of time to see what jordan, DGB and Nelson fully develope into before we are forced to make some big 70 mil WR invest in free agency. No reason for Marshall to waste the last two years of his career with the Jets, hopefully Roseman can bring him to philly for a 5th round pick
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Brandon Marshall
Jordan Mathews in year 4
nelson Agholar year 3
DGB year 3
Bryce Treggs competing with another WR we draft and a few Undrafted kids we take fliers on
Add some more RB talent, and I think that would be enough WR talent for Wentz to work with in his Sophmore season
Welp…
https://twitter.com/LesBowen/status/800753977361055744
That’s how Agholor can help the team. He can be spare parts for the guys who are contributing….just hope no one needs hands.
Those hands could be a punishing weapon if installed onto a defensive lineman.
Not sure how big a drop off it is, Barber is probably a more sound RT than Vaitai from a technical perspective if not as physically talented at this point in his career and we have decent cover at LG.
Yeah, but it really cuts into my building for the future narrative.
So the twitter doctor was right?
Broken clock tho….
Might not be that big of a deal since Wisnewski is doing well at LG allowing us to play Barbie doll at RT… Think we can handle this loss.
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The problem is I don’t know if we have enough depth to overcome another OL injury so we will need JP, Kelce, Wis, Brooks and Barbie to stay healthy at least until Lane gets back,
Yeah. Still, seeing the young guys develop is what this year is about. Watching journeymen trying to hold down the fort has less appeal.
Agholar demoralized me so much that I literally stopped watching the game at half time. Few players in Eagle history have managed to take all the joy away from watching the Eagles on Sunday, Agholar accomplished that yesterday. I know the final score but I couldn’t tell you what happened in the second half of that game.
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I was so disgusted by Agholar and the Eagles at halftime because we could have easily been winning at halftime, and I knew that there was NO CHANCE of winning that game After all the opportunities we pissed away. You don’t win in THAT stadium with a rookie QB if you fail to capitalize on opportunities when they come our way the way we did yesterday
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I don’t know what the answer is for this Agholar debacle. I guess we should try benching him for an entire game, holding him accountable the way we did after ryan Mathews Commited his costly fumble. Coddling nelson hoping it would eventually click for him clearly hasn’t worked, so I guess we should try holding him accountable and keeping him on the bench for the Packers game. Maybe he responds to taking a step back in hopes that he can later take 3 steps forward. Clearly sticking by Nelson,and allowing him to play thru mistakes ismt working.
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Im as furious as any Eagle fan with Nelson, but my anger is about his play THIS YEAR. These struggle haveng pushed me to the point where Im also ready to write off his future… Simply because it’s not Nelsons fault we drafted a WR who we had to force into the starting lineup day 1 because of chips roater mistakes… Some really great NFL players weren’t ready to fill the huge role we were forced to thrust Agholar into. 1 and a half seasons into his NFL career, Im not ready to give up all hope of him figuring it out Longterm, but this kid ISNT making it easy to maintain some perspective about his Longterm future… I don’t know if Nelson will ever become a quality NFL WR, all I know is that he clearly wasnt ready to be thrust into a #1 WR role this early in his career.. Think it’s time we try holding him accountable and sit him during the Packers game, and then insert him back into the bengals game and hope it made some positive effect
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jalen Mills gave up that infuriating 79 yard run, Jaylen Watkins have up that infuriating TD catch to Jimmy Graham… And I have no idea what happened in the second half
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Go figure that the one time Ertz finally makes a huge play with run after catch, Nelson Agholar fucked it all up and stole that play from Ertz…
If we miss the playoffs, odds are we will be the team chosen to do Hard knocks this summer because of so many great story lines to follow:
1) Golden Boy Wentz
2) Hall of Fame Peters, and Celek in what might be their last season
3) out spoken high charecher leaders on the field and in the community: malcolm Jenkins, Sprolesly, Barwin
4) an always pissed off and Fiery Jim schwartz probably makes for good TV.
5) our magician/long snapper
6) fun charecters like Curry, BG, Kelce
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Not only would HardKnocks be getting a big market team with an insane Fanbase following, but there are all sort of interesting story lines for HardKnocks to follow
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I’ll be pretty surprised if they choose another team to do HardKnocks this summer,
#SmallSilverLinning
this worried me more when I thought we had some secret sauce with Chip. Now I would probably enjoy the hell out of it and not really be worried about state secrets being revealed.
Isn’t it funny how CK convinced us he had secret sauce worth protecting?
Yes sir… Turned out Chips “special sauce” was just repackaged Doug Collins “Charlatan Juice”
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Pederson and our staff is about as traditional as it gets, so it shouldn’t be that big of a deal for us to have to do HardKnocks.. Wentz is a grounded yoûng man who won’t lose his mind over the extra attention and with our intense media coverage our players are used to being under a microscope anyway… HardKnocks for me was really stale and boring this year, so it would be great to get to see the Eagles on HardKnocks next summer.
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And from the NFL and HBO poïnt of view (Ratings), I would assume that the Eagles will be near the very top of their list of most appealing options
hello Tommy, Do you think Greg Lewis will still be the WR coach next year? Thanks!
Why wouldnt he be? We hired him to coach WRs, not be a magical miracle worker who walks on water
The WRs are not improving one bit. They actually look as if they are regressing week to week.
I know coaches don’t catch the ball, but perhaps his teaching methods aren’t getting through. That’s the reasoning behind my question.
Some times stability is better for developing young players. More change ISNT always the answer. But I don’t really think we have any idea what caliber of a coach G-lew is… He didn’t draft any of these WRs… What we do know is that when he was coaching the Saints and conducting their Pre draft WR Prospect workouts, the Saints did a pretty decent job of Drafting and then developing WR’s (of course he didn’t have the power to decide who they ended up Drafting)
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I just Think it’s way too soon to be talking about replacing position coaches that were added this past offseason. Im sure he is a huge upgrade to our last WR coach Who was the worst coach on chips staff. Whether G-lew is good enough to keep this job LongTerm, I have no idea, but neither does any other eagle fan
I personally like Greg Lewis. Always said the right things when playing, and never complained.
Hopefully, they can figure this out… I am anxious for a spark in WR!!
Chip Kelly and his Jackson trade and non-signing on Maclin are really hurting us.
I feel you man…
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Personally, Im hoping to see HOWIE give the Jets a 5th round pick to have Brandon Marshall finish the last two years of his career as an Eagle since they have some other nice talemt at WR and no point wasting the end of Marshalls career playing with Hackenberg next year
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It’s not a great year for free agent Wrs, and it’s not a great year for Drafting WRs… So trading for Marshall gives us a weapon who will make tôugh catches for Wentz, while givng us two years to draft and or Develope top WRs who can eventually replace Marshall as our #1… And with all our young Wts, probably valuable to get them a high level veteran like Marshall to lead them by example and help develope our puppies
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Philly is close enough to where Mashall can stil Go Film Inside the NFL every Tuesday in New York (playërs off day)
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Adding Brandon Marshall would be HUGE for Jordan Mathews who would probably benefit greatly from playing with a true #1 Who commands attention of a defense
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We are lucky that Nelson and DGB are still so damn young in their careers that they could still develope into quality players… If Nelson looks like this bad midway thru his 3rd NFLseason, then it time to realistically consider giving up on him
I don’t think u can teach someone to catch, aside from 5-6 year olds.
I doubt greg lewis has pop warner coaching experience, we need someone who’s qualified
I think it is a little early for the discussion, but I don’t think the question is outside of the realm of possibility.
One guy fired for poor life choices.
Another proving everyone wrong who said he couldn’t possibly do any worse.
A third performing adequate at best.
Talent-laden underachiever underachieving.
Long-shot flyers haven’t landed.
Hard to point at reasons why this question should not be asked.
Our CB’s sucked during the chip era, yet we kept Corey Undlin and for the most part he seems to have done a pretty solid job with nolan Carroll and Mills development along with the young longshots CJ Smith and Grymes
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Too soon to be firing any coach we hired this past offseason, especially at that position when we are talking about a bunch of second and third year playërs who are 10 games into their transition to A west coast offense scheme that is probably exponentially more complicated than what they were asked to do under chip
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A lot of this mess is the Eagles fault for allowing Chip to make such a mess when we gave him GM power that we drafted WRs and immediately penciled them in as day 1 starters which Agholar CLEARLY was NOT READY FOR..
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I guess in my eyes, BIG Picture, a Kid not being ready to be our #1 WR in the first season and a half of his pro career, doesmt mean he won’t ever figure it out and eventually realize his full potential.. not all great NFL players were ready to immediately fill major roles in the first year and a half of their career… This is exactly why I believe it’s NEVER a good idea to draft a kid planning to start him day 1. I always think it’s better to draft a kid into a bench role, and give him a year or two before we ask him to replace the current starter.
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It’s not like Nelson has reached his ceiling as a player and we are finding out that his ceiling isnt good enough to play at this level. Think we all agree that he still has a lot of untapped potential. So while he frustrates the living Fuck out of me, all I can definitively say about Nelson right now is that he Clearly was not ready to be a #1 WR in his first year and a half in the pro’s, and while that makes me want to bang my head against the wall, it doesn’t automatically mean that he will never become a quality starting NFL WR
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This just reinforced a lesson we should have already learned… not to pencil in rookies to start day 1. Free Agency is for the NOW, draft should be for the FUTURE., If a rookie wins the job in camp GREAT, but we SHOULDNT be drafting kids and assuming they can fill big starting roles from day 1
Did you forget what this thread was discussing?
We were talking about whether Lewis’ job status should be questioned next year, which you dismissed as absurd. Then you said it is too soon to talk about firing him now, which wasn’t suggested. Then you said this:
“It’s not like Nelson has reached his ceiling as a player and we are finding out that his ceiling isnt (sic) good enough to play at this level. Think we all agree that he still has a lot of untapped potential. ”
That doesn’t support an argument that Greg Lewis should be untouchable. Quite the opposite, actually.
I think the question is a fair for the team itself to ask, but I don’t think fans have nearly enough information to even be remotely close to answering this question.
1. Huff – Greg Lewis is a WR coach, not a life coach. No way you can connect Huff’s decisions to any coach on the Eagles.
2. Agholor – He was a “bust” last season and so far simply hasn’t disproved that. Sure, Greg Lewis hasn’t been a good enough coach to change Agholor’s career trajectory, but the majority, if not all, of that blame has to go to Agholor.
3. Jordan Matthews – His issues throughout his short career so far have been drops and questionable ability to create separation. That remains true. So, two coaches, and Matthews much praised work ethic, have not changed that. Maybe a good/great WR coach could get more out of Matthews, or maybe, Matthews simply is what he is.
4. DGB – As you pointed out, he is an underachiever. Does that mean every coach would fail to get through to him, obviously not, but EXPECTING a coach to get through to him is a bit unfair.
5. Longshots are longshots.
I think most importantly, as fans, we have very little idea what he is actually doing at practice and how he is coaching these WRs. Would we like to have better results from the WRs, certainly. But coaches need quality talent to work with.
I am certainly not arguing that Greg Lewis is a good coach, but using the production of a below average group of WRs to assess a position coach is incredibly difficult.
Agree totally. I am in no way suggesting he has failed, but none of those things you observed make a compelling case for retaining him.
Bigger question, its it possible he can still suit up. He has to be better than Agholor.
First time, long time. I’ll take my answer off the air.
As shitty as we all feel today, we have a great bounce back opportunity facing an unraveling Packers team and an imploding Bengals team. Think both teams will be firing their head coaches after the season.
..
Going into this game, It wasn’t the end of the world if we lost in seattle. It’s a game we were supposed to lose, but we CAN NOT afford to look a gift horse in the mouth and piss away this great opportunity to rebound against two teams who are in real bad shape right now in Green Bay and the Bengals. it won’t matter If NY and Wash keep winning, but as a young team in yeàr 1 of this new era, we still need to make the most of every opportunity to grow and gain experience/Confidence so it would be highly unacceotable to not secure wins in these next two games..
.
Things look Gloomy today, but we aren’t out of it yet, we have winnable games left against Packers, Bengals and Ravens, an easy win against Dallas who will probably rest all their starters against us. A highly winnable game at home against the Giants… The hardest game left on our schedule is washington at the Linc… As bad as things seem today, it’s still a very real possibility that we end up finishing with in between 9-11 wins. Even if we miss the playoffs because this is the first year of a new era, it’s still important to finish strong because we are paying a foundation for what we hope will be a new Golden era of Eagles football
..
Essentially we need to build a juggernaut of a Super Bowl contender before wentz rookie contract expires and we have to allocate a huge percentage of our Cap towards extending him.
..
Everyone points to obvious needs like CB and WR, but MOST IMPORTANT is building a team that can beat our rivals, and we NEED to STACK our front 7 if we are to compete against the Cowboys and Washington teams that have reall strong Offensive lines in place..
“. . . as a young team in yeàr 1 of this new era, we still need to make the most of every opportunity . . .”
_________________
The Eagles are not a “young team.”
They were the 5th-oldest team in the NFL this year on opening day.
http://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2016-edition/
Maybe adding Paul Turner moved them up from 27th youngest to 3rd youngest . . . eh?
I know Kempski is big on the whole, “the Eagles are actually an old team” narrative, but those numbers can be misleading. The presence of 36-year-old Job Dorenbos has as much statistical weight in that analysis as 23-year-old Carson Wentz. You can make a solid argument that between the defensive front and the quarterback, the Eagles have a relatively young core.
It is a veteran-laden team generally especially on defense.
Defensive starters over the age of 28:
McKelvin (bargain-bin CB)
Carroll (bargain-bin CB)
Barwin (probably in his last year with the team)
They have a number of starters in the age 26-28 (early prime) range:
Jenkins, McLeod, Graham, Curry, Bradham, Kendricks, Logan
You’d expect another 3-4 years of ceiling-level play out of these guys. Meanwhile, Cox and Hicks are each 25 and under. They need corners, but otherwise, the defense isn’t about to fall off the age cliff.
Didn’t say fall off a cliff but this still isn’t a young defense with a number of starters who are 25 and younger. It is Cox and Hicks with no rookie starters.
3-4 years is pushing it but they should be solid for another 2.
Curry isn’t a starter and certainly hasn’t played that well. Kendricks has been a PT too. Logan is a FA who I kind of doubt is back unless the Eagles buck the NFL and invest heavily in two highly-paid DT.
Who gives a shit about the average age of the roster as a whole? Doesn’t matter how many veterans you have, it’s not going to help change the fact that we are counting on inexperienced kids in very important positions such as QB, RT, RB (assume smallwood roles increase with our banged up RBs), CB… And it’s not just rookies..
.
Our middle linebacker is in the middle Of his second season, leading the defense while dealing with a scheme change
.
Our DT position is pretty young
Our entire WR position is second and third year puppies who are in their first year in a west coast pffense which is completely different from what chip Kellys offense asked of them
..
Average roster age is about as worthless of a stat as we can find.
.
Ideally you strive for age balance at every position, a mix of youth and experience so you can have veterans starting, and young talent learning behind them who will be able to step into a starting role when it’s time to move on from the veterans. That’s the ideal situation. You want to avoid as much as possible situations like what chip kelly did to our WR position, getting rid of starting veterans which put us in position to draft WRs and pencil them in to start day 1…. Aka the Nelson Agholar Disaster..
.
kempski is welcome to view this as an old team, im very pleased with the young nucleus we have in place as The foundation for the Wentz era Eagles… What’s important is age of position groups as a whole, and for the most part, we don’t have too many positions that I would say “we have to get younger at this offseason”
.
We could use another young Guard and Tackle (I assume Seumalo is the center of the future)
.
We could use another young LB if they get rid of Kendricks
.
At some point we could add some more youth at DE depending on how MS2 and McCalister develope
..
There are positons that we need to upgrade, but not really any positions where we have to get younger at for example the WR postion..everyone agrees we need to upgrade this unit, but it’s all young players already so it doesn’t matter if we upgrade it via rookie or veteran addition… And a lot of the need to balance youth and veterans at each position probably has a lot to do with rookie vs Veteran contracts helping to make sure you dont have too much cap space allocated at a position
.
When you DONT have a bunch of positions that make you think “We really need to get younger at that position”, then we are fine from an age stand poïnt regardless of what the average team roster age is,,
..
What’s important is for example the defensive tackle position. We are going to give Logan a costly extension, so because we will have a lot of cap money invested in the DT position with Logan and Cox’s big extensions, it’s important that our backüp DTs be on cheaper rookie contracts, And ideally we get two elite young DTs at the beginning of their rookie contract so we have them on rookie deals for the next 4 or 5 years, and by the time logan and Cox big extensions expire, hopefully by then the two young DTs will be ready to take over as impact starters, and we move on from Cox and Logan so we can extend the young DTs past their rookie deals… That is the ideal situation you strive for at every position group from a roster building standpoint
Kempski spews complete bullshit without any analytical evaluation or thoughtful insight.
I dont think I have even seen anything Kempski has said since the season started and I like it that way
Happy if Turner takes into some of Nelson’s snaps, but I like Grymes. I know he did well against 3rd stringers, but I would have rather seen Taylor Hart released.
FREE TURNER! Make me believe PT!!!!
I thought I’d ask for a Wentz jersey for XMas, but now….I mean Turner’s got to be right there as a choice too.
season savior
You know the saying, no one’s more popular in Philadelphia than backup WR.
It’s time to Turner the page on this Agholor thing.
The only question left is whether or not there’s enough time remaining in the season for Turner to win the offensive rookie of the year award.
MVP is not out the question.
MVP? Pffffft….sainthood. Saint Paul “The Burner” Turner: patron saint of not being terrible at your one job.
Who would you rather have Dak and Elliot or Paul Turner?
Definitely Turner, right?
Jason Avant should be replacing Greg Lewis as WR coach next year. At least he caught EVERYTHING that was thrown his way.
Greg Lewis was also know for his hands. I’m not sure I ever remember him dropping a ball. His problem was that he was small and slow, while Avant was just slow.
Not sure I understand the Greg Lewis criticism. Have the WRs impressed… obviously not. But the issues at WR were clear prior to the season. The only thing Greg Lewis has failed to do so far is make the WRs surpass expectations. I’m not sure that’s worthy of criticism. The issue is talent. We knew our WRs struggled with drops.
That’s not to say Greg Lewis is necessarily a good coach either. I just think without being at practices and knowing what he is actually doing, judging him based on suspect talent isn’t particularly worthwhile.
Our WR’s are worse collectively, I think, than they are individually. Jordan Matthews could be a stud # 2 on an offense with a clear #1, and, Agholor would almost definitely be better if he was an occasional weapon on a team that had a couple studs. When the QB is raw and eager, and the running game only works via scheme and formation, and then only against certain opponents, the pressure on the aerial game requires excellence that our group does not possess. So I say shore up the running game so that it can stand up against strong DL’s (like Dallas), and look for a consensus #1 receiver. We are not terrible, but it isn’t easy watching a team beat itself.
There was more sarcasm than truth to my post mate.
Swami prediction – Paul Turner will not only not drop a pass this week but that he will quickly develop & become Wentz’s favorite go-to receiver down the stretch.
Love to see him become a poor man’s Troy Brown who for decent stretches of multiple seasons was Brady’s go-to WR especially on 3rd down.
He isn’t on the team until he drops a pass.
Right of passage.
Why are manic fans upset the Eagles lost to the Seahawks or that Wentz played poorly?
Listening to Westbrook on 97.5 driving around and it seems like he has turned into more of a shrill-ranting type since he got left go by CSN. It is a shame he feels to he needs to be more outlandish including going on emotional rants to get his point across.
Wentz hasn’t been playing all that well. The hallmark of an elite franchise QB is to elevate guys around you and Wentz hasn’t done that. That’s my guess anyway.
The Packers would like to have a word with you.
Are they trading us a WR? They can fuck off if not then.
Probably. . Would you trade Wentz for ARod straight up?
no.
No, ARod is a baseball player.
The resl A Rodgers
Rodgers
the receivers are un-elevatable. they are lead handed
it’s true. we need 3 new WRs in the next 2 years.
Other than really not loving Wentz’s extreme deep ball.. what else did he do wrong?
I was just answering the question asked from the crazy people’s perceptive.
Scary thought: Wentz HAS elevated the receivers and this is the best we can expect from them.
I refuse to believe you. Lalalalalalala they can’t be any worse lalalallalala
Wentz has exceeded all my expectations
He’s a rookie. I dont its fair its fair for people to expect him to put this team on his back already. And he cant go out and hand his WRs the ball.
And yes, he has made some mistakes. Not just today but in a few games. Its not like he has much help out there.
Yeah I recently stopped listening to westbrook. He has become unbearable which really surprised me at first.. And it has nothing to do with me not liking how critical he can be of the Eagles,. Seth Joyner is very hard on the Eagles, but he is fair and informative and one of the best ex Eagles to listen to…. Angelo Cataldi and talk radio blow HARDS must have rubbed off on westbrook too much
Would people prefer Wentz or a Dak / elliot combo?
Not playing this game
Who is the greatest heavyweight of all time ?
Best Playboy Centerfold?
Barbi Benton…
Schwing.
Kind of a proto-Megan Fox, eh?
http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Type4PTS/media/Barbi_zpsb89585be.jpg.html
Magical. Truly dazzling.
Best heavy weight centerfold?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/034c4e32de56115400d0bb6137efe7c8328ae9b06771e5670bb00345d245db79.png
Andre!
“In this corner, wearing pink and frilly trunks, likes rainy days and hot cocoa…”
Anna Nicole Smith
Halle
Would you trade a 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd to move up for Elliot? Dallas only got Elliot because they were 4-12 last year.
I’d take Wentz over Dak
I’d take Wentz over Elliot
A:
I prefer the Cowboys’ O-line.
Once you have that, the rest falls into place . . .
Not to say I wouldn’t want Elliott. But he benefits enormously — as does Prescott — from that O-line.
So Wentz/Barner are 9-1 w Dallas . Hmmm possible
This question came up while we were watching the game yesterday, and I’ll bet we’re not the only ones asking it. My best answer is this: If I could have only one of these three guys, I want it to be Carson because I think he’s the best bet to build a team around. I feel he has the highest upside over the long haul. On the other hand, if Jerry Jones calls Howie tomorrow and offers Dak/Elliot, for Wentz, I hope he’d take take the offer.
Im with ACViking on this one. I have watched every Cowboy game and maybe i am a hater but Dak is not that good. Heres an analogy i came up with. Lets say you are trying to figure out who is a better driver. One guy is racing around a Corvette and the other guy is driving a Chevette. The driver in the Corvette wins and the national media says he’s the better driver. Thats how I see Dak. He has alllll day to throw…almost everytime he drops back to pass. In the rare cases where he has pressure he has made some wildly inaccurate throws. In my opinion…its all on their O Line.
Put Elliott and Prescott behind the Eagles’ O-line . . .
What impact, if any, would that have you asking this question?
Query whether the Eagles o-line has consistently been dumpster fire bad?
Or would a Zeke (and a Dez) and a game manager still get the job done?
Query also whether the draft resources used to get a Wentz are worth it – do we over weight his first 3 games?
Goes without saying we don’t have a Dez, but i think otherwise we probably have a better compliment of skill players.
This is all very short sighted i think in the long run it’s not close -i’d take Wentz. But no one is thinking about building blocks right now.
Carson Wentz.
Dak/Eliott. No brainer
Wentz/Elliot?
Wentz, their line, and “street FA at RB!
Barner?
Later.
Dallas probably has the same record with Alfred Morris and a different #5 overall pick (Ramsey?). Elliott may be great, but long term that was not a great pick.
Wentz.
Dak / Elliot are a line powered creation.
Sounds like the PT Cruiser might be ready to roll this week.
Nooooo.
Agholor is going to have a 100 yard game against the Packers. It came to me in a dream.
you’re dreaming, go back to sleep, wake up and cheer for Turner
I mean, they are a garbage team with an even more garbage defense so it wouldn’t be some proclamation that NA has arrived.
He has never even had 65 yards….. so it WOULD be SOME kind of proclamation.
I could see that happening. You dreaming it, I mean.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4cc79634a68e404a636cbbc066bfb72b66c0903300af876f00fb633799624569.jpg
So looks like bears are going with Matty B for the rest of the season. Does cutler get another job next year? Backup? Out of the league?
There is always Cleveland…
That quarterback/franchise pairing is too perfect.
Home for Misfit Quarterbacks. Cutler will be a perfect fit there for a 1.5 years until Hugh is fired as the coach at the end of the 3rd season with a 9-39 record.
Any word on what Cox’s injury is? He is one guy who after a great first month has really been very mediocre. That would be fine if he was a basic DT but he hasn’t earned his new contract this year.
Only blitzed Wilson 3 times yesterday and when this front 4 doesn’t generate consistent pressure, this secondary gets carved up. It has been happening a fair amount lately and over the last month only 4 other teams have given up more passing yards.
Here are the DVOA rankings of the last four teams we’ve played:
Seattle #2
NY #16
Dallas #3
Atlanta #4
Wilson isn’t on this schedule again.
Not sure if anyone is watching right now, but Bill O’Brien should be fired on the spot for punting there.
The FB play from the Raiders. Please steal that one Doug.
God dammit, now I am mad again about a game from nine years ago. 🙂
The last six opponents
Our 3 division foes = trash (except Washington, who really outplayed us, but I don’t “like that”)
Green Bay, Baltimore, and Cincy = even trashier because they have done us no favors by losing to our trash division opponents.
I know our roster has some holes, but none of these remaining games scare me to the point where I’m not going to pick us to win. I doubt we do 6-0, but I can’t see any of these games as a likely loss by themselves.
Skins are really hot now. Cousins is on fire and they have Kelly, a rookie RB who reminds me of a skinnier and in shape Eddie Lacey
Seattle showed us we are an 8-8 team, we are just not on the same level as the Seahawks. Skins looked real good on Monday night and the Cowboys dont know how to lose. If by stroke of good luck we get a Wild Card, I dont see us going very far. Lane Johnson effect is really killing us , we would be 7-3 now with Lane. We need major help at WR. Hoping Turner’s glue hands will rub off on the others.
“we would be 7-3 now with Lane”
“we would be 7-3 now with TO”
Now it’s correct.
Lol. no doubt that we would be better off with a stud WR like TO but unfortunately we dont have one. We do have a suspended stud OT thats an idiot. Lets hope that we have at least 8 wins when he returns so we can finish 10-6
We would be 7-3 if we our RB’s did not fumble away games late in the 4th quarter against Detroit and Dallas.
There is no shame to loosing to the Seahawks in Seattle… lots of teams do that. What sucks is that so much of it was self inflicted, like Agholor not lining up correctly or Mills failing to make a tackle at all and letting the RB break off a 70+ yard TD run.
This is a decent team, with a young QB who is learning the ropes with what has turned out to be a pretty brutal schedule. If the Eagles won just one of the games they threw away in the 4th quarter then we would be feeling pretty play off confident especially with 4 home games left to play.
that Detroit loss still eats me to this day. The Cowboys loss i can swallow because they have an excellent offense, arguably the best in the league.
Both losses aggravate me. They were in position for both wins with just basic conservative play — in Dallas, just kick the FG and that game is basically salted away. But we punted instead. Dallas is a much better team than Detroit, but we had earned the win in both games, and blew both of them with mistakes good teams do not make.
Stop watching ESPN.
you disagree Elliot, Dez, Prescott and their excellent o-line are not the reason for their 9 straight wins?
I disagree that they are the best offense in the NFL.
Thumbs up.
Yea, other than our offensive line, running backs, wide receivers, and cornerbacks, we have a solid team.
this team aint making no wild card playoffs, wow, some of yall are delusional(spelling)
10-6 might not be enough this year to get a wild card
I don’t think this game taught us anything we didn’t already know.
Other than the fact that Nelson finds ways to destroy games even when he is only occupying space on the grid.
Im glad college basketball is back
Go ‘Nova.
It’s just dawened upon me that Seattle felt the need to call a trick play to score on our Defense which normally shows respect for the opponent.
Since I was rather drunk that night and can’t remember did we try any tricky stuff???
throwing to agholor
You have found the most difficult play to complete successfully at the NFL level.
Well played, sir.
At least 16 people think that throwing the ball to a professional, 1st round pick wide receiver, ie someone paid to catch balls, should be considered a low percentage, trick play.
What more needs to be said?
Our wide receivers better be on that juggs machine until their hands bleed
good idea then they can be out for hand injuries and we can bring up new guys/nobodies.
I’d imagine they’ve used them since spring. You can only bring a horse to water….
“Wentz had one streak in this game of four incompletions and a sack, and another when he went 5-of-15 for 20 yards with a sack, an interception, and two fumbles. He played his best in the fourth quarter, when the game was realistically out of reach: 12-of-21 for 132 yards and a touchdown.”
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/quick-reads/2016/week-11-quick-reads
Rookie playing from behind in seattle. What are we really expecting?
A miracle. We got Paul Turner. I’d call that a push.
The question; what is the analysis of this information?
What I shared was information and a bit of commentary; what people want to make of it is their own affair, no?
Jimmy Kempski-esque
I wanted to know what you made of that info.
2 bad streaks, decent performance in quasi-garbage time.
wentz is a garbage time qb stat padder boot licker?
Worse ending to the season – we lose out or the cowboys win the SB?
I’d take cowboys winning (as being worse).
Cowboys winning and it’s no close
Cowboys for sure
win out/ lose out, neither would matter if the cowboys win the SB.
they won’t
Cowboys go to the Super Bowl vs New England. You have to lower yourself to actually cheer for the Patriots. They are winning until late in the 4th when Dak hits Dez for a late TD and all you see is Jerry’s face on the big screen.
I think I just threw up in my mouth…
Goodell having to hand Brady the superbowl trophy would be fitting justice
Cowboys winning another super bowl before we win our first is by far the most depressing thought in sports
Same.
If we lose out we only have our own misery to worry about. If the Cowboys win the SB we’ve got our misery plus their happiness which is ten times worse!
Everyone listen to Jernst. Brilliant.
Cowboys ain’t winning the SB with a rookie QB and an average defense.
Scared they have building blocks for multiple. Horrifying
Cowboys winning and it isn’t close.
I was thinking earlier that we’re pretty comparable to the Texans at this point. I eventually dropped it because I didn’t come up with too much evidence. Then I found this:
http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/dont-worry-im-a-professional-1789243421
I think the Texans are a kind of comparable team. The main difference being that Oswiler has tools to be successful, Wentz doesn’t really. I drool over seeing this offense with Hopkins, Fuller, and Miller.
I was going to say we’re not like TX at all – we have a good coach and a good qb – no weapons.
Mediocre team where the Defense is the strength.
Wait…what did we get for trading Agholor?
(For those of you who didn’t click the link, we didn’t actually trade Agholor)
I’m glad this is happening.
https://twitter.com/albertbreer/status/801169965114073088
Didn’t the remainder of his guaranteed salary become non-guaranteed after his suspension? Sucks for him
did but can’t see him going anywhere given what the line looks like w/out him
Good. So much doublespeak in the NFL. Don’t take cutting-edge supplements, but you won’t be competitive if you don’t when everyone else is taking everything they can get their hands on. Don’t do recreational drugs, but relieve all of your pain with super addictive opiates.
Bingo!
The union is just as scummy.
Ahh, like making sure new rookies get underpaid so they get a larger share of the salary cap?
PTI lead story is about Texans getting hosed .. the NFL is FUUUUUUKKKKKEEED UP !!!!!
Roger Goodell s u c k s
I took the day off from the eagles today. Only read igglesblitz like 7times, dropped my phone like 3 times, wasnt wide open once all day.