Learning to Win
Posted: December 12th, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 426 Comments »As I lay in bed this morning, I was thinking about yesterday’s game and the team overall. It would have been so great to see Carson Wentz get the team into the end zone for the win. He’s had chances and hasn’t been able to take advantage of them. When is this team going to learn how to win?
That phrase stuck with me for a minute. Learn to win. How do you do that?
I started thinking about previous Eagles teams. Did they learn to win? When did that happen? How? What changed?
Then something hit me. A team really doesn’t learn to win. They learn to compete and to be in position to win. When you can do that and you have enough talented players, you start to win games. Think about how different that final drive might have been with Lane Johnson at RT and Darren Sproles at RB. I’m not adding free agents and draft picks. I’m simply giving the Eagles the projected players from September. Heck, that drive might have been different with simply having Allen Barbre at RT.
There are no guarantees that Wentz throws the winning TD, but he would have been in much better position to do that.
This team has only had 2 games where they weren’t close in the 4th quarter, Seattle and Cincy. In every other game, the Eagles had a chance to tie the game or take the lead. There is a talented core in place. Now let’s think about adding a key player or two. A really talented CB could have made a difference yesterday. A really talented WR could have made a difference in just about any game.
I do think learning is part of winning. You need veteran players to learn the new schemes. That helps them to think less and play more instinctively. Young players need experience, learning how to play at the NFL level. College football is worlds different than the insanity of the pro game. Think about Carson Wentz for example. The last 2 years he played for an elite program and won consecutive national titles as the starting QB. Life in the NFL has been very different.
Wentz is getting one heck of an education this year. He’s thrown a ton of passes. He’s been in just about every situation you can imagine. He’s played behind 9 different O-linemen, 8 of which have started games. He’s been hit high and low, without getting the calls. At one point, he had the most dropped passes in the league (not sure if that’s still true). He had a 60-yard TD called back due to an alignment penalty. He’s handed the ball off to a rookie, thrown passes to a rookie and been protected by a rookie. Talk about getting a player out of his comfort zone.
In the future, Wentz might be good enough to overcome tough circumstances. He’ll read defenses better, make quicker decisions and throw the ball more accurately. Things like that help you to overcome playing behind the #4 RT and having mediocre skill players to get the ball to. For now, those circumstances have proven to be too much for him.
It would be nice for the Eagles to win a game or two down the stretch to help build some confidence for next year. That stuff doesn’t always carry over, but with enough young faces in the lineup, I think it would mean something to this group of players.
*****
As great as it would have been to go 9-7 and make a run at the playoffs, this is a flawed team. The best thing for them in the long run is to get the last place schedule for next year and to get a higher spot in the upcoming draft. I know the Browns have the Eagles 1st rounder, but the higher draft slot applies to the other rounds as well. This team needs more than just a 1st round player. There are plenty of areas to upgrade or bolster with young talent.
Some of you have made suggestions about free agents to pursue or players to target in the draft. I haven’t given the offseason much focus yet. I’ll be starting to do that soon, since we know there won’t be any playoff football this year.
I do think it is important to focus on the fact the Eagles are trying to build something. They won’t fill every need this year, nor should they try to. I would be careful with free agency. You want to build around Carson Wentz, thinking about the next 5 years and not just 2017.
*****
I’ve always found Mike Lombardi to be an idiot.
I swear the Eagles just watch the Chiefs tape and run their offense. It's such a copy cat scheme.Nothing original. They're like a cover band
— michael lombardi (@mlombardifoxtv) December 11, 2016
It's almost as if the Eagles hired the Chiefs' offensive coordinator or something. https://t.co/K3Mog86cFX
— Jimmy Kempski (@JimmyKempski) December 12, 2016
_
hopefully we don’t end up with the draft picks of someone that’s 9-7.
watching the way seattle gives each other pep talks when that defense isn’t playing well, tries to pick players up — makes me think we need that kind of leadership to take it to the next step. Rookie year’s are a wash but i’d be nice to have come from behind to win that game yesterday. i’m sure cleveland felt that way too when they were blowing close game after close game early in the season.
Dawk certainly couldn’t do that all on his own when he was here. That’s why I really enjoyed the signings of Mitchell and Runyon in 2000.
When they get better players, the team will learn how to fly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5BJXwNeKsQ
More than one way to learn that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCB_INs2E24
Now we’re cookin’ with gas!! #FloydRules
I have to listen to Lombardi on my drives home. You’re spot on Tommy.
The Chiefs have been featured petty much on danish television and obviously I’ve watched every Eagles game, and the funny thing is: I dont really see that much of a similarity between our offense and the Chiefs.
Might be due to the personel and playmakers they have, but its not like i’m seeing the same formations, same route combinations etc. I mean, its not like its apples and oranges, they’re both NFL offenses and clearly both West Coast offenses, but every time I watch the Chiefs, I actually catch myself thinking how Andys offense looks really good, despite Alex Smith being Alex Smith and that OL not being great.
Lombardi probably knows more and hopefully studied some game tape, but I really dont see the comparison being that spot on. The real issue is actually that I wish Douggy P would to some of what Andy is dialing up, albeit, we dont really have Tyreek Hill on the roster, who seems to be the basis of some of the concepts I like from Andy.
Got him mixed up with the WIP 97.5 guy Mike Lombardi. Both guys are terrible.
“We just had the remarkable sight of the Eagles holding sideline tryouts for a third-string long snapper, with Dorenbos out with a wrist injury and Brent Celek questionable to return with a stinger. Fullback Trey Burton, who has been an unexpected feature of Philadelphia’s passing game today, wins the job, then on his first attempt gets too much air under a snap to Donnie Jones. Jones, however, expertly catches the ball and gets it down for Sturgis to kick his third field goal of the day.”
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/audibles/2016/audibles-line-week-14
“Now Josh Huff, in his first game for the Buccaneers, completely screws up fielding a bouncing kickoff at the goal line and the ball squirms out of bounds at the 1. That inexcusable error costs his team a safety on the next play when the Saints defense rocks the Buccaneers offensive line backward at the snap and Paul Kruger tackles Doug Martin in his own end zone.”
yeah saw that, bad break for him ball hit him and took a bad bounce
In other words, Josh Huff is still Josh Huff. Next week he’ll return a kick to the house and everyone will be stoked, until a pass clangs off his hands for an interception, until he takes an end around for a TD, until he runs into his own man on punt coverage, until he returns another kick for a TD, until he…………………….
Celek’s been the emergency ls for as long as i can remember – does he get any reps doing that – doesn’t seem like it.
Probably gets some reps. Tough to do after hitting 300lb guys all day. Just one of those freak things. Like a K or P getting injured. You just don’t prepare for those things.
Has anyone ever answered why Kelce couldn’t do it?
Kelce did. Long snapping requires more mobility of the shoulders. Tough for linemen.
Totally different skillset.
He probably gets 10 reps a year, mostly in TC.
Injury news:
Dorenbos done for year, wrist surgery last night.
Smallwood grade 2 MCL sprain. Week to week, but I’m figuring he’s done.
Tobin grade 2 MCL sprain. Week to week.
Big V could be back this week.
Sproles in concussion protocol.
Watkins ruptured tendon in finger.
Barbre hamstring. Should be good for Sunday. Won’t practice Wednesday.
Celek stinger. Should be good for Sunday. Also won’t practice Wednesday.
oh there are more games?
geez
Not the worst thing in the world.
Key is to make sure Wentz stays healthy. Getting Big V back this week is huge. Getting Lane back next week is even bigger.
Man, Doronbos was one game away from standing alone at the most consecutive games by an Eagle list.
I’m surprised Andy Reid’s team is a run first, short passing, time of possession eating offense. It felt like starting from 06′ Andy just changed his philosophy to airing out deep on every possession. With KC he flipped back to his original script.
Well, Donnie has a rocket and is inaccurate and Smith has a pea shooter and has repetitive accuracy.
With Jon Dorenbos, Wendell Smallwood, Matt Tobin, and Jaylen Watkins all potentially going on IR, at least it gives Howie/Joe Douglas some ability to raid other teams practice squad players.
Another aspect of learning to win is killer instinct, which can be taught. Donnie Mac never had the killer instinct, hopefully it can be nurtured within Wentz.
Also I love that we now know that on the last play, Wentz was being protected by our 4th string RT who also had an MCL sprain.
WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK INJURY GODS.
Don’t think that can be taught. That’s one thing that guys either have or don’t.
Nah, you can train it into people. The same way young boxers sometimes need to be trained to go for the killing blow. I don’t know whether they actually will try to train for that or not, but it can be done.
Killer instinct is a bullshit term
Eli Manning looked like a fucking idiot last night and I had to remind my self that this guy is a 2x Super Bowl MVP.
To be fair, he almost always looks like an idiot. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/adbe639518dce06862467fe29b1096e0f8b17d8c517c387807c1ed2135adda0a.png
I always think of Spicoli from ‘Fast Times at Ridgemont High’ when I see this photo of Eli.
Peyton does try to pass him himself off as a bit more of an intellectual-type but both of them along with Archie strikes me as average at best in that category.
In almost every sport circumstance, the ‘killer instinct’ is a fallacious concept.
Granted it much more difficult to measure in team sports like football or hockey but in basketball (game-winning shot) or in baseball (hitting with runners in scoring position late in close game) it has turned out to be pure bunk.
I except much of this is the same in football although a small segment of certain players are slightly more affected than others due to stress & circumstances.
Thank you. JHC, the team with the better players and better coaching wins.
This damn swagger, confidence, killer instinct crap is killing me!
eh – did you watch NBA finals last year?
It’s a narrative, man. Shit, the MVP had bum wheels.
Yesterday is not something to get hung up on. We should have won, but we missed a lot of opportunities. Still should have won. Had a critical call reversed to not go our way. Still would have won if not for our long snapper going down. And might have still have won if we weren’t on our 4th RT (he is much better on the left I believe). It’s just, some games you just aren’t going to win, yesterday was one of them. The season is over, but the game was entertaining, that’s about as much of a win as we’re going to get from here on out.
4th-string RT who had a torn MCL and couldn’t come off the field because Zach Ertz would have had to play RT
yep, Murphy’s law did a number on us. Not too heart-broken.
Just glad the guys fought through it as hard as they did. Came up short. But I can’t get too mad.
He tore his MCL?
NM- just read it.
Not only that, but they actually gave full effort on Sunday… We should be grateful! Let’s hope they don’t sneak in any “fools gold” wins before the season ends.
Anyone else at OTC now trying to guess our offseason moves?
Just a reminder, as this a family site, there is no need to use profanities.
steveh
you called?
Family of &^$%ing *$%#&@zzz!!!!!
Tommy, I disagree with the premise. You don’t have to call it learning to win, but, well, let me give you a little Philly history. The Phillies, in latter part of the 1970s were an outstanding collection of talent. Year after year, they would punch far below their weight. They would either disappoint in the playoffs or fail to get there at all.
.
They went out and got Pete Rose. Now yes, he was PETE EFFING ROSE, but he had been in the league for 14 years. He was good, but not the player he once was. And he wasn’t a statistical upgrade either offensively or defensively from players they had had at First Base over the previous several years.
.
What Pete brought to the team was confidence. Confidence in himself. Confidence in his teammates. Case in point…he would routinely field ground balls and, rather than make the play himself, he would reward the pitcher who was running to cover first by soft tossing and letting him make the play. This built confidence within that pitcher in his defensive abilities…that he was helping himself and the team to win.
.
Teams need to believe in themselves. Whether its someone like Trotter or Dawkins…or TO…instilling confidence in those around them. You need people on the team who can instill this confidence that someone…SOMEONE…will make the play. That is learning to win.
.
This team needs to get over the hump and “learn to win.” You need someone on both Offense and Defense. Hicks may be growing into it. 11 may grow into it, too. A strong-willed FA WR might help immensely.
.
In the OBTW category, as you said, you need talent, too. The Eagles are simply not good enough talent-wise at this point. But, they’re not far off.
You bring up a good point- lets look at our WR corpse (sp?) specifically. When Desean was a rookie, he brought a swagger to the unit. Fast forward to his departure- we lost the “it” factor which trickled into other position groups. Bring him back? Even as a 30 year old speedster who may start to decline, I would argue “YES”. Why?
He has confidence. He knows how to perform in this league. He’s gone through the ups and downs of being in the league for 8 years, and would easily be the veteran of the group by an astonishing 5 years.
Same thing Runyan did for us when Reid brought him in. Same with TO. List goes on and on- we need grit, confidence, and the insane belief in oneself to prove the doubters wrong.
Corps is a group.
Corpse is a dead body.
I think you spelled it correctly.
A corpse would get better separation.
Agreed- but I know how certain members of this community like to pick out blog comments. I put the (sp?) there for them. I meant what I said
DeSean was and still is too “me-first” to ever qualify as that kind of a veteran. He’s not going to take it upon himself to “lead” if it in any way affects his own personal production. And while he’s an electric player, he’s never been a gritty, playoff time, “you-can-count-on-me” type of player. You’re looking more for someone like Anquan Boldin, though he’s probably too old at this point.
I call BS on that- not anymore. When he left for Washington, he had those qualities. What I see now is an NFL vet who knows what and where his role is in this game.
Of course he isn’t Boldin. Not many are- celebrate and enjoy what he is, rather than what he isn’t.
I’m going to call un-BS on that. There have been issues with him in Washington as well. I fully understand his role. He’s a one trick pony for the most part. It’s a very good and useful trick and he’s really good at it, but it’s one trick. And in Washington, as in Philly, he has a tendency to disappear in games that truly mean something at the end of the year.
Would I like to have his skillset on the team? Sure. But not for top dollar. And I sure as hell wouldn’t be hiring him and expecting him to serve as the solid, wise veteran presence in the locker room, inspiring our younger receivers to perform better. He’s not that guy. As you say, enjoy what he is, rather than what he isn’t.
Think of it this way- he could teach our young WR corpse to not post pictures on Instagram, stay away from potential gang allegations, and how to tip your stripper properly so she doesn’t go to the press.
It’s a win win- and we wouldn’t sign him for top dollar. He’s not worth it, but we are desperate
A veteran who didn’t bother to show up at training camp for 2 straight years in Washington and actually tweeted pics of himself vacationing instead of team building.
Do you think he has learned from his mistakes?
Lets look at the 80 yard TD against the birds on Sunday- previous years, he would be celebrating at the 20 as he waltzed into the end zone. This time he didn’t.
Why?
I would guess that he’s matured. He’s grown up some. He’s never going to be Jason Avant, but that doesn’t mean he can’t contribute to a corpse that needs new life breathed into it.
Is Jackson perfect? Nope. But if his heart is still in Philly, and he can bring back some of that attitude, confidence, and swagger back to a team that sorely needs it, I’m all for it.
But he did start celebrating early… Or at least he slowed down significantly
I’ll argue that he’s fighting against his nature- that he wanted to celebrate, showboat, but that he refrained because hes grown up some and there is a great potential he will again be an Eagle.
He had every right to boast. Shades of Cary Williams came to mind. When he beat Williams for the TD, he expressed himself the whole way into the end zone. This time was different.
Again, I ask why?
Maybe he’s a 30 year old speed receiver looking for his last good NFL pay day, and he knows that the GM that extended his original time in Philly is again in charge of contract negotiations.
Maybe he really wants to come back and give back to the city that loved and hated him- we all love underdogs, second chances, and feel good stories. Jackson left on a horrible note. Loss in the playoffs to the Saints, dishonorably discharged by Charles Kelly green, freed to sign with the hated divisional foes in the form of the Washington Foreskins.
No, this has a Rocky type ending feel to it. Jackson is coming back, and he’s going to breathe life back into this rotting corpse of a corps.
Watch, wait and see.
Maybe
Or, maybe he just saw McCloud coming haha
I’d run faster if that little bastard was on his way to hit me. He packs a punch, and he’s fearless!
One thing that chip tried to do is bring in people from teams with winning cultures – to change the mentality here. Worked to 2 10-6 seasons. You’d think the rook would bring some of that from college but it’s probably not the same.
Sometimes you need vets that come from winning organizations to become real leaders in the lockerroom, just don’t think we have that right now.
The talent may not be, but the coaching is
Hey Tommy, I know you have other stuff going on so it might not be possible, but it’d be great if you had a chance to put together a ‘draft prospects to watch’ list for the upcoming bowl games. Outside of the big names I’m not all that familiar with the guys coming out of college this year and it’d be nice to have an idea of who I should be looking at while I’m watching the bowl games.
http://saturdayblitz.com/2016/12/09/2017-nfl-draft-prospects-bowl-season/
Thanks!
I also just saw this 7 round Eagles mock and I think I’d be pretty happy if that’s how it turned out. No idea how realistic it is with regards to guys that will be available in each round, though.
http://nflmocks.com/2016/11/27/eagles-mock-draft-2017/
Westbrook is probably a late first or second round guy but has big character flags, so it’s plausible. The rest seem pretty realistic.
At the rate we’re going, we’ll be picking at #39 in the 2nd and not #46.
Kempski has been doing 5 a week: http://www.phillyvoice.com/grocery-shopping-five-college-players-watch-who-could-interest-eagles-2017-nfl-draft-12-10-16/
There are links to all previous lists in that article.
Kempski has been doing some of that.
Top down, ownership needs to make winning a priority, not family atmosphere. You can have both, but if you have to choose, winning is the clear choice. Feels like too many guys are comfortable with “good enough” on the team. Ertz, and everyone else, should be playing like that every week.
The issue with this team isn’t ‘learning how to win’ but talent right now pure and simple.
Even if they were almost completely healthy, this is a so-so offensive line and the skill position talent here is definitely bottom 10 in the league and likely bottom 5.
Pederson has gotten his share of flak and as Schwartz but this offseason is really all on Roseman. He did more right than wrong season but still had some moves you can easily second-guess too or clear misses.
Roseman is not only going to have to find a starter in the 1st round who contributes immediately next year (very mixed track record at best) along with finding better depth guys.
In FA, it is a little more difficult but again he can’t afford any real misses. He has to basically kill it in the draft and hit 80/20 or 70/30 in FA for this team to go 10-6/11-5 next year in what is now a tougher NFC East.
I’m more dubious on Roseman being able to accomplish this given his mediocre track record in FA and especially the draft. That is the bigger question looming over this franchise. Roseman wanted the responsibility and ultimately prevailed.
“Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown” from Henry IV, Part 2 applies quite well to Roseman this offseason. This fan base is already upset about how this team has performed the last several years and is going to get pretty belligerent if this team is sub .500 yet again next year.
This roster isn’t going to get better than 8-8 in a year. A good young RB/WR can take some pressure off of Wentz but he isn’t going to make Wentz more accurate. Wentz has a ton of work to do in the off-season, if he doesn’t get better then this team isn’t going to be elevated enough to be able to win in the playoffs.
A solid top veteran RB this year would have made a big difference. Smallwood is a role player, Mathews has had one really good game all year, and Sproles isn’t a guy who should be carrying the ball 5-6 times a game in the first place at this point in his career.
The bigger question is would Pederson use him and lean on the run game.
I haven’t looked at the overall run/pass ratio vs other team and how it compares to Reid but I bet it is pretty similiar.
It still wouldn’t have made us a good team. Wentz just isn’t good enough to win games on his own right now.
Disagree there and this team has lost a lot of really close games that if they had that RB to lean on they pull out one or two more of them including the Detroit game & first Boys’ game.
Doesn’t make them a stellar team but say 6-7/7-6 right now. Only had two games this year – 1st Skins game and Bengals game – where they got the snot pounded of them and were clear losses. Maybe add the Packers’ game too but tougher call.
I doubt it, maybe it would have won us the Lions game. Last time I checked Wentz failed to seal the deal on any of those close games when given the chance to. A RB that can carry the offense is way too rare. Guys that can make up for shoddy OLs aren’t grown on trees. The only ones to really do it is Marshawn Lynch and Barry Sanders.
Turnover on final drive was brutal. But have you seen Goff play?
We keep talking about Wrs, etc. we need an o-line. Doug can scheme soemone open if they have enough time to throw
A:
Haven’t seen Goff in action.
What are you seeing?
An O-line problem? Or a Goff problem?
Good question. I haven’t watched Goff as extensively. But have to assume based on their inability to run they have an o-line problem.
That said I don’t think anyone would look at Goff and say he’s better than Wentz.
Goff is playing in his 3rd pr 4th game under a trash coach. I’ll hold off judging Goff this soon.
Nope, not interested in the Rams. Nothing really compels me to watch a team so devoid of talent.
Yea we need OL help but at this point we don’t really have many options right now. OL draft doesn’t look good this year. So I highly doubt we’re going to invest highly in OL this year’s draft. We have to hope that the guys we have can take the next step or luck out by finding the next Evan Mathis.
But what we can do is get other pieces like WR/RB/CB in place now and try again next time.
Think part of the problem w/ the o-line is just their inability to stay healthy – not sure how you fix that.
You replace them.
But with who? Seattle is trying to construct an OLine out of basketball players. Minnesota has 4 OL positions filled with #4s from the PS. Green Bay is just starting to protect Rodgers recently. Carolina can’t keep defenders off Cam. Etc.
RB is only as good as the line. See Todd Gurley
I just look at what Redskin’s gm has done with that team in 2-3 seasons. They were a hot mess for years. Now with an OK coach and a good gm they’re in the playoff hunt for the second year in a row and generally look like a much more respectable, drama free team
eff the skins
FFS. Fisher canned after signing a two year extension.
What took them so long?
He should really thank his agent for getting that deal done. How can the Rams ownership sign an extension and two weeks later fire the HC. Like, wouldn’t you think that to fire him, you’ve been thinking about it and discussing it with your inner circle for more than a week and a half?
Because the Rams EVP is the son Fishers agent.
Wait, really? He gives dad a nice commission, but this has to get him fired, right?
Wait, what?
Huh. Wonder if the extension was an old boys’ golden parachute or something.
This is the most baffling coach move an NFL team has made in the past few years.
The Devil must have revoked his deal with Fisher.
Oooh, will be a good time to get players from the rams
I mean anytime you can raid that gold standard of a football program the better, right?
yeah i was just making a point about getting guys who know how to win…
Nice i remember being interested in us taking a shot at him in the 2013 draft. Good size, fast and physical
Nice!
It’s a Terrence Brooks type move. Somebody you had a higher grade on coming out than anybody else available, with some game experience. At worst you don’t have to teach them special teams, at best maybe you get things to click.
season saved!
So is it ironic that we took the chief’s old OC but are complaining about WR production?
Been saying this for a while. I wont place the drops in the coach but the whole nobdoy open stuff. We run a ton of the same routes all game.
What about the WR production in Philadelphia with Reid. Wasn’t hat bad. Though Chip did improve the production from those guys quite a bit.
No wide receiver production in KC for like 3 years
Bring KC’s OC here and we wonder why WRs aren’t putting up crazy numbers.
Has the offense changed? Just wondering out loud.
Or that a rookie coach decided to go with a rookie QB with a rookie WRs coach. What could go wrong?
While we need playmakers and hopefully snag a game-changing stud at LB or CB or WR, I hope that Joe Douglas can give HR a list of options for interior line help on both sides of the ball. Our wide nine look puts our middle line under a lot of pressure, and we have given up too many big runs there. Conversely, our OL gets too little, too inconsistent push up the middle. No, we’re not terrible, but we lack depth and that subtracts from the overall at LOS.
The runs up the middle (and most of are big runs come from losing leverage) are a byproduct of the system and the ability to get gashed, we have three good run stopping DTs, Vaeao doesn’t understand gap leverage worth a damn but cox, logan, and allen are all very good.
I wonder if the experience of playing 2-gap gives those 3 an edge in winning gap leverage. I like Vaeao, but he’s still a bit raw. If, as you say, it’s a system thing, maybe it is putting too much on our LB’s. I am looking forward to the changes JS makes in the next season. He cannot be satisfied with the product.
I will punch anyone who suggests we hire Jeff Fischer right in their goddamn face.
He’s poop
The position of “Head Survivor” has already been filled.
So you wont be punching anyone ever again.
Just what I was thinking.
What if we hired him to yell at refs?
I actually DO think we should hire Jeff Fisher.
Somebody has to wash the players cars after it rains.
Somebody needs to hold down the critical backup tackling dummy position.
I never wish someone an injury, but I wouldn’t mind if Everett breaks his leg when getting out of his bed tomorrow morning. #Scum
Maybe he can Chris Baker can crash into each other at practice and both can be inured?
I think it was Xeynon who disagreed that DeSean is one of the all time greatest deep threats in the NFL. Well he’s got 22 career TDs of 60+ yards and trails only the all time great Jerry Rice by one.
Also Jimmy K. is already on the bandwagon of signing him. Maybe he’s right the second time with DeSean. I wouldn’t mind this time, at all?!!
For me it all depends on the price.
I’m also in favor in going after a guy like Kenny Stills
Yes agreed. Maybe a $7m/year would be enough?
Please no
No. I can’t imagine Jackson will give the Eagles a real favorable deal simply to come back here.
You’re over by $1 mil /year.
I like him at 2 years / $12 million.
See above. lol
You’re sorting backwards. I had to see below. “Newest first!”
Just so you know, his catch% is 54%.
Based on targets or catchable passes?
Targets.
How many drops does he have so far?
You do know that Cousins has missed him wide open several times, don’t you?
Looks like he has 2 on 78 targets.
What a bum. How many does JMat have?
1 for every 5?
Lol. Exactly. Plus he can’t drag his feet inbounds what every high school player learns.
1 catch for every 5 drops? Ouch, be nice.
I think 5 on a 100.
Okay, just found a filter tool on the sportscharts site. They define a drop as any pass that hits the target in the hands and isn’t caught. YMMV.
For WRs with at least 50 targets, a pool of 288 players, J Mat is 12th in drop rate (11 WRs in the NFL are worse. So yes, he is bad. 271 out of 288 players have better drop rates). Ags is at 80th. DJax 119th.
The worst is Seth Roberts, with 6 drops on 68 targets.
https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2016/customize/
Also has over a 17 yards per catch average.
So he’s an upgrade?
Think people forget he’s not just a deep threat. 2014 Djax was catching balls all over the field
My only concern would be the length of the contract. He’s on the other side of 30, and once his speed starts going his effectiveness is going to go way down.
You think djax put up 1440 yards just catching deep balls?
2 years / $12 mil
That won’t cut it. 2 years 14 mil maybe?!
He’s coming off of 3 years / $24 million and is older, played less games, and been less productive.
I can’t go wild on his contract or I have to move on.
Remember the Eagles will be desperate for WR help and also the salary cap will increase.
http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/philadelphia-eagles/
Here are our parameters.
Look at what other teams have been given FA wide receivers this year.
He is still one of the best deep threats in the game & he’ll get paid this offseason. Doesn’t even consider the Eagles if they offer that 2 yr/$12M deal you suggested below.
Given the needs of this team, I would rather see this spent at CB or even OL instead.
It is pretty safe to say Desean is a WR that will be of note forever. He has gear in Canton and has made some all time great plays. He is a talent upgrade to any team.
I don’t want anything to do with him on this team.
Why?! Because he’s a wanna be rapper or gang member?
You really think those are the only 2 choices for not wanting him on the team?
Yes. What else did I miss? Bad team player? Not sticking up for a team fight against the Skins after Baker went ballistic on Foles? I cannot think of anything else to be honest.
yelling at the WR coach? being generally immature..
Great highlight player, very limited skill set. Every player has a price, and shiny toys like Jackson tend to be overpriced. At the right price, he obviously helps a team. But the last thing the Eagles need is veterans who don’t provide leadership, and in fact set a bad example for all the little things that make a franchise great. This team needs to develop some backbone.
Neither. Simply his lack of dedication, and locker room presence.
Ok
I will say that stuff didn’t really creep up until he went to Washington. Probably the separation from Reid, then this org. I have to imagine that would keep up if he came back.
What about the year he dogged it for the entire season for contract reasons? Great teammate.
So it’s Jimmy’s fault because he reported the Djax stuff?
It always was. 😉
Remember when Jimmy was the one causing the Eagles to suck last year?
So is Chip Kelly doing Hard Knocks next year or is it us?
Chip Kelly might be the only thing that saves us from having to do it…
They are so awful I doubt it. Maybe with rookie qb.
Hilarious. Now the Eagles’ fans en masse seemingly want to bring back Jackson after only too happy be see him being run out of town.
Even at the time on here, there seemed to be a ton of support to get rid of Jackson.
Would hurt less if he wasn’t in the division
Reid passed on signing him with mixed reports they even made him a firm offer.
He is a decent player who does some things well but I just can’t see the rationale to giving him a big dollar contract right now.
Injured pretty often, too
I think fans are taking full advantage of the freedom to imagine getting the player they want at the price they want. Only dumbasses like Howie are forced to give out money that agents negotiate.
I don’t think he will get a big money contract. I could see 3 years at $25, with 12 guaranteed in the first 2 years
I was fine with cutting him because I trusted Chip.
I was wrong.
Pass on Jackson. He’s an upgrade but I don’t see how he really helps a developing Wentz, and his attitude is bad when things don’t go his way. Plus he disappears in the red-zone.
Um he’s GREAT at tracking balls in the air – that pas form Cousins was off target and under thrown – Foles did that a ton in 2013 but those balls were caught
I don’t remember saying he couldn’t track a ball in the air. That should be a requirement for ANY receiver we sign. He’s nearing the end of his career and once he loses another step or two (which he will) what else does he have? Doesn’t go across the middle for tough catches. Doesn’t create a mismatch in the red-zone. Doesn’t have a good attitude when the game isn’t going HIS way. Isn’t a “Team-Player”. Merely MY opinion. I know he’s better than what we currently have, but that’s not saying much. I wouldn’t be mad if he came back, but he’s far from the answer at WR. We’ll see!
I missed the playmaking ability greatly. In Chip’s context of wanting receivers to be blockers etc., I could grudgingly see it. I suspect that Jackson’s indifferent off-season commitment was a lot of it, as well, and I don’t miss that.
Jackson makes a number of spectacular plays and is a really interesting player. But you can’t count on him to be a consistent go-to player, or a red-zone weapon. He does alter how the defense can play you, opening up the field for others (at least until the red zone) — that is a lot of his value. He has certainly helped Cousins; I’m sure he could help Wentz. Having a go-to guy like Garcon helps too though.
I would be just fine bringing him back, but it can’t be #1 receiver money. We are somewhat hamstrung against the cap as it is — we will have a little flexibility, but can’t cut many high-salary players (beyond Barwin and maybe Kelce/Sproles/Mathews) but we are probably best served by searching for mid-range free agents like Bradham. So it comes down to what he’ll accept. Maybe tell him we’re interested, but can’t afford what he’s looking for, and maybe if he doesn’t get the money he wants on the first go-around, he’ll consider us. And if the opportunity to get a real #1 receiver crops up (doubtful), we’d have to use the money there and would not have anything left for anyone else on offense.
I never wanted him to leave, but thought he would be too expensive. We also had Maclin at the time who I thought was the overall better WR. Sadly Kelly let both go and replaced them with Agholor and Matthews.
Had Kelly been able to just hit 1 good WR out of all the million great once coming out last 3 years, nobody here would be talking about Jackson
Interesting comments from Adam Kaplan:
– Said talked to a few personnel guys who think the Eagles are 8-10 starters/role players (nickel CB) from being a playoff team capable of making an extended run
– Wentz enjoys a good rep and that a few guys who watched the All-22 were impressed how Wentz played yesterday despite the beating he endured including several really hard shots
– A few scouts think Peters can be productive for another 2 years and given what happened with Johnson that it is a near lock they’ll bring back Peters
– Brooks’ situation creates a lot of issues for them potentially not only right now but this offseason
Does that mean Peters trade?
Brooks situation is the ulcer? or the Contract?
What happened w/ Johnson? Does that mean they could go Johnson and Vaitai at the tackle position next year? If we were trading peters for something nice i could be into that – call rebuilding a rebuilding.
Didn’t say about trading Peters and with what happened if Johnson. Nothing on Vaitai either just expects the Eagles to bring back Peters at LT which isn’t that shocking.
Brooks and the confusion regarding the ulcer situation. Said not out of whelm of possibilities the Eagles could void the contract if not disclosed by his agent but really odd that the Eagles have seemed to indicate that they didn’t know about it despite him missing a game for it last season. Odd situation all around.
Sounds about right. The talent is not good.
Keeping Peters is getting a jump on the o-line.
(get it? JUMP. get it? ’cause he false starts a lot)
I had meant to ask the group for a few weeks…Peters isn’t the only one false starting. How likely is it that the problem is Kelce being slow on the snap?
It’s possible. Peters has always cut it incredibly finely in terms of being on the edge of not false-starting, though (which, honestly, is an impressive skill). So it would only take a small twitch from Kelce to have Peters start early.
Lynch suggested that in the broadcast. Actually, he said maybe Kelce has an irregular cadence.
I think the OL coach is overrated and that’s part of it.
That would be supremely odd because the quarterback does the cadence, not the center.
There does seem to be something odd about the Eagles’ setup regarding the snap, because I’ve seen a lot of situations where the play clock is counting down and Wentz is clapping his hands frantically and appears to be begging for Kelce to snap it before the clock runs out while everyone has been set for a while.
It certainly is possible that this is just some form of trickery, but it didn’t appear to be so. And I have never really seen this sort of thing with the Eagles or any other team so often. Without being in the locker room, can’t say who’s at fault, but there have been some really hinky moments in this respect.
I believe it’s just a product of them having snaps that aren’t on one called in the huddle, and then audibling, so the clock is then run down, and they don’t auto check to first sound.
The frantic clapping, give me the damn ball! is pretty common especially when mixing silent counts
If I’m understanding you correctly (and I’m not sure I am), that sounds like a coaching issue. In other words, they don’t seem to default to a quick snap after Wentz has audibled at the line?
You don’t necessarily want to. Plenty of his checks come with over 10 seconds left. Plus if you always go on one after an audible the DL is going to tee off.
Yes one of the complaint about Kelly’s offense was that the snap count never changed
Shh… facts
I mean if Kelce is doing the cadence, Doug actually does deserve to be fired
No wonder his snap is slow. Derrrr….. hut, hut, shit, snap
Ha! You know that didn’t even occur to me.
Maybe he said “rhythm” or something, but I’m pretty sure he said cadence.
Kelce’s fault? Very likely!
Sadly I think Kelce is going to be back next year too and the likely starting C too given all of the other needs this roster.
Can’t remember the last time the Eagles had such an underwhelming veteran performer who kept his starting gig through for what will be a 3rd consecutive year next year.
8-10 starters/role players translates to 2-3 years if things go well?
I think Howie can do it in 5.
WEEKS!!
In simulated Madden maybe and with a lot of resets.
Pretty much. They year was a ‘One Step Forward, Two Steps Back’ in terms of what they gave up to get Wentz.
Now hopefully I go that crappy Paula Abdul song suck in your head too. Internet evil.
Well thats crap to be honest. We need 2x CB’s, maybe a SLB on defence and that is a pretty good unit starters wise (could always use more depth especially on the DL). Offensively we need a WR1 and WR3, RB and maybe LG to polish our roster in 2016 to being pretty complete.
It is entirely possible that Mills could be a solution longer term at CB, our Barbre is a decent starting LG this year, and our LB’s have been plenty good enough honestly. The performance by our depth OL has actually been decent considering the massive turn over and chopping and changing that has had to happen every game.
Sign a WR free agent, draft some CB’s and RB and this is a pretty good team.
Maybe the Eagles should hire Jeff Fisher as HC.
Maybe you will get punched in the face by someone.
Rowe a healthy scratch tonight
“Rowe was limited all week with a hamstring injury and tested it pregame, but ultimately couldn’t give it a go.”
http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2016/12/12/starting-cb-eric-rowe-new-wr-griff-whalen-among-patriots-inactives-vs-ravens/
Hoodie getting out of that 3rd round pick.
The Ravens will kill the Eagles next week.
Their offense isnt food enough to kill anyone.
Their defense though..
Got exposed pretty badly vs Pats last night. Ravens’ team probably is the closest proxy to this team still although offensively the Eagles are worse right now & Flacco is a better QB than Wentz at this point yet.
Nah we’ll beat them
Smith Sr is going to put up 200 yards on us. We can’t match their speed, size, or production in the secondary. Though we did play better against Washington, comparatively
Oh hey, remember a month or so ago when I was saying Jordan Matthews has no body control and usually doesn’t even attempt to drag his feet on sideline catches? For those that disagreed with me then or didn’t understand what I was talking about, this past game had a perfect example.
Yes he either has no
Game awareness or simply no skills..
He’s just a limited player, that’s all.
toot toot
I do remember that. Since I just said the same thing yesterday, I hope I didn’t disagree. I do like to play Devil’s adequate quite a bit….I feel like I might have commented on that. Hope I agreed!!
Devil’s advocate is probably adequate.
He makes every catch look difficult
Part of why I wanted part of him in the draft. All the physical skills, zero of the control.
Watch a guy like Desean Jackson. A very underrated part of his skils is 3 things Matthews lack. Body Control, ability to track the ball in the air and hands (we are not even going to talk about speed and route running).
one nugget by Cataldi:
• Dorial Green-Beckham has never been compared to Albert Einstein, but the Eagle receiver’s latest stunt is a new mark for stupidity. Given a chance to use his footwear to promote a charity last week, Green-Beckham instead wore a pair of cleats from Kanye West’s Yeezy Collection and claimed they represented a fake cause. The NFL fined the receiver $6,076, which, we can only hope, will be used for brain research.
A rebel without a cause.
This was more clever than it got credit for..
DGB . . .
The Sal Mineo of NFL WRs?
Meanwhile Wentz has prayer BS on his cleats and nobody bats an eye.
Half the team got behind those AO1 sneakers – there’s a video on his twitter w/ everyone talking about it
you wanna fight
What’s BS about it, other than your completely baseless opinion?
It doesn’t support any charity whatsoever? Would Santa Claus cleats be allowed? Tooth Fairy?
stopped reading at “Cataldi”
you should start at Dorial green
Is it homerism or does wentz already looks better then flacco?
LaGerrette blount is getting paid like the league minimum.
You will never see an Eagles WR catching this ball.
Hope our guy can throw a slant like Brady soon.
It’s crazy to look around the league at all the young, unheralded WR talent (Cameron Meredith in Chicago, Tyrell Williams in San Diego, Tyreek Hill in KC) and wonder how the hell Paul Turner was the best we had around this offseason…
Hey, the PT Cruiser is gonna be a stud you’ll see.
我只是来看一看，好久没来了~
“Last place schedule”
This is a major pet peeve of mine, but I absolutely hate this phrase. The implication of “last place schedule” is that as the last team in the division, you get a significantly easier schedule compared to the rest of your division. This is just not really all that true.
The way the schedule is actually designed, being last place in a division has such a minimal effect on a teams schedule, especially when you are talking about how difficult their schedule will be the following year. Every year, every team obviously play 16 games. Those 16 games are:
-6 games (1 home/1 away) against the three other teams in the division.
-4 games against all the teams in a single division of the same conference (based on a four year rotating schedule)
-4 games against all the teams in a single division of the other conference (based on a four year rotating schedule)
-2 games against teams in the same conference that were the same rank within their division that are not in your own division (obviously) and not in the division you are playing that year.
Those last two games are THE ONLY games that are effected at all by a teams previous record. In other words, next year, we already know 14 of the 16 opponents (including whether those games are home and away.. which I didn’t add above):
Home:
-3 games against NFC East opponents
-2 NFC north opponents (Packers and Vikings)
-2 AFC north opponents (Steelers and Browns),
-1 NFC South same place finisher (1 of Panthers/Saints/Bucs/Falcons)
Away:
-3 games against NFC East opponents
-2 NFC north opponents (Bears and Lions)
-2 AFC north opponents (Ravens and Bengals)
-1 NFC West same place finisher (1 of 49ers/Rams/Cardinals/Seahawks)
The Seahawks are probably the only team on that list that you can expect to be consistently good from year to year, thus, even a “first place schedule” is not drastically all that different a “last place schedule.”
So to me, there is no benefit in losing just to get a “last place schedule”… /rant
Take 2016 for example – I would have preferred to have played the 49ers and Tampa (like the cowboys) compared to Atlanta and Seattle (our schedule). Sometimes it can be a wash and does not really matter – look at the Bucs who had to play the cowboys/bears as their bottom schedule, but it can work out significantly in your favour – and in a league where the difference between 9 and 10 wins is the difference between making the playoffs often it can make the difference.
But use your same example. You think the 49ers and Tampa are excited to have had the “benefits” of a last place schedule themselves? They end up adding Dallas to their schedules because of it.
My point is, first of all, you are talking about 2 games. And second of all, there is zero guarantee that the last place team from one year will be a last place team the next. In fact, it is very often not the case. So in the context of if it benefits the team to lose and get a last place schedule, hell no. We don’t know if the panthers will end up being good again next year. For all we know, the 49ers or Rams could end up taking significant steps forward. Or alternatively, the Falcons or Seahawks could have a bunch of injuries heading into next season that make them terrible teams.
I just completely disagree with the logic that losing out has some significant advantage scheduling-wise, especially one that we can predict, because the difference between first and last place schedules is incredibly minimal, and given the parity of the league can hurt you just as much as it can benefit you.
Likely has us playing Panthers next year. No thanks.
Um… didn’t you just post THIS season’s formula? You have us against the exact same divisions again.
Oops. Thanks, you’re right. Was looking at the wrong year and wasn’t paying attention. Edited above.
My first two takeaways:
1. Please don’t fire Chip Kelly. Please don’t fire Chip Kelly. Please don’t fire Chip Kelly. Please don’t fire Chip Kelly.
2. What if the Bears are losing so they get to play us next year?
I just watched the NFL channel’s condensed version of the game. My assessment: the Eagles are a mistake prone, stupid football team that is in dire need of a talent infusion. So, nothing new.
One thing though, I did not see any dropped balls.
Our lord and savior, Paul Turner, dropped one at least.
That’s when I knew for certain our season was over.
I figured it ended with the turd performance especially late vs Packers in prime time. Bengals game just made it a formality.
That steaming pile basically signaled the end for me.
Heck, even having 4th string RT Tobin in there with TWO legs could have made a difference.
Wentz has thrown 313 passes in the last 7 games which is a more passes than any rookie in NFL history has thrown over any 7 game stretch during their rookie seasons and he is carrying that historically large passing load for an offense that isn’t very good. It blows my mind that this kid is able to handle this without creating an epic TRAINWRECK. So many rookies would have been total disaster under these circumstances which is why no rookie QB has ever been asked to throw as much as Wentz. The fact that he can handle this at all blows my mind and might be the most encouraging part of his rookie accomplishments. As horrible as the Rams have looked, can you imagine what Goff throwing 60 passes last week would have looked like? The Rams opponent may come close to scoring 100 points if you ask Goff to chuck it 60 times.
..
Going Into season I still would have rather went with Bradford while Redshirting Wentz for the year especially because we didn’t know Quickily he would transition to the pro game. But now that the season is coming to an end I feel so fortunate that we were able to give this kid this much experience during his rookie year, He exceeded my expectations for sure and I think it’s going to pay off in a big way that he was able to play so much this year, he has a lot to work on, but no one can claim that we ruined him by playing too fast, if anything, because he was able to handle it this experience will probably expedite his development.
..
Can’t wait to see what this kid looks like Next year sorrounded by what will hopefully be a better team. like Wents, Pederson didn’t have to be a great coach this year, but he does need to make the most of this experience and learn from those mistakes if he wants to give himself a chance of becoming the Longterm coach of the Wentz era. Im willing to give Doug a pass for this yeàr, but at the end of next year we better be able to point to obvious growth in doug from year 1 to how he coaches in year 2. He has the right yoûng QB and THATS the biggest part of the puzzle and the hardest player to find.
.
The 2016 Eagles weren’t good enough, but im still encouraged by how Wentz is developing under this coaching staff
Goff…the coach killer.
Or fisher the rookie QB killer… NFL’s very own Chicken or the Egg conundrum
..
From a pure comedic standpoint, would have been fun to see Fisher make Goff throw 60 times before he got fired, im kind of annoyed by the timing of the firing because they saved Fisher from becoming the losingest coach in NFL history which would have happened if they waited 1 more week to fire him
I don’t think Fischer was calling plays on offense
Does it matter? Fischer was the ring leader of the entire dysfunctional circus Goff was drafted into
Not sure it was a good experience. Would have preferred to redshirt too draft comp obviousl too high for that to be possible.
Wentz’ numbers in these games haven’t been good, at all – so hard for me to call the experience positive. Would have like to run the ball more – get barner / smallwood more reps.
This is something that the critics of Pederson and his playcalling should focus more on including thrusting so much on Wentz.
It is not like they have played behind in a bunch of games with huge deficits the entire game except the Bengals game either.
we wanted andy, we got andy
If this continues to be a revolving door at head coach, I wouldn’t put it past Lurie to consider bringing Andy back for a second stint once he is done coaching in KC
I also want to give this coaching staff more time to prove if they belong here Longterm to buy a little time because I think some good coaches and coordinators are at risk to hit the unemployment line in the near future
Someone like Bruce Arians, MIKE Tomlin, Ron Rivera or john Harbaugh could become available in a year or two if their teams keep under performing. Im not sure any Intruiging coaches become available after this season. Rex Ryan? God Forbid… Chuck Pagano? No thanks
.
Todd Bowles, Marvin Lewis, Gus Bradley, if any struggle to get another HC job, they could be interesting defensive coordinator replacements if Schwartz doesn’t get the job done next year
..
if we keep Doug at least 1 more year, I think some really attractive coaches and coordinators could become available if Doug DOESNT show enough growth in yeàr two, and Carson Wentz makes this an attractive job
..
Eagles quarterback Carson Wentz answers 7-year-old fan’s questions on Twitter
http://6abc.com/sports/eagles-qb-wentz-responds-to-7-year-old-fans-letter/1653187/
They left off Question 6 – ‘Will the Eagles will ever win a Super Bowl?’
I saw that on Twitter. With the goodwill that a player can generate in about 30 seconds of typing it is baffling that this is noteworthy, that every player doesn’t make a point to do something like this weekly.
That said, it is noteworthy, and pretty awesome.
Best thing about that post is the kid’s letter. The final page absolutely killed me. That kid is destined for great things.
At least the Eagles DONT have to play in London next year, and we are probably the favorite to be chosen to do HardKnocks.
Hopefully we can keep Pederson, Reich and Schwartz in place for at least 1 more season since a revolving door at Head coach is the last step to becoming the dysfunctional Browns. If possible Stability is what’s best for Wentz in the immediate future and asking playërs to change and learn new schemes every year ISNT the blueprint for success, want to give this staff two seasons before making a decision..
.
We backed up a Brinks truck for NNamdi and Byron Maxwell yet we still haven’t found a corner. It’s driving me crazy to see the Giants pay Janoris Jenkins who is giving them their moneys worth. I don’t know what we are going to do about CB, it scares me needing corners because I find it to be one of the hardest positions to draft and we haven’t had much success evaluating that position in recent times
Must be nice to be Kendricks getting to pick up his big fat game check after only playing 8 snaps on Defense sunday. did anyone else bust out laughing the moment they saw Kendricks on the sideline auditioning for long snapper? Pretending to be busy, trying to find a way to try and justify the money he is stealing? The skins play 3 WR a lot so it’s not a surprise to see us play so much nickel sunday, but overall I wonder if Schwartz thinking that Kemdricks sucks plays a role in how much base package vs Nickel schwartz is calling? I guess what im saying is I would like to add another impact linebacker but I would need to know if we would run enough base defense to make it worth having Howie trade Kendricks and invest in a better WIL LB, or any of the 3 LB positions since Nigel and Hicks are versatile… Will we use enough 3 Linebacker sets to make it worth upgrading the position?
.
think I now officially hate washington more than Dallas and NY.
Fat prick Chris baker cheap shotting FOles
Then Desean goes there
Cheap shot our long snapper ending his season
But the hit on Sproles made me want to do bodily harm to a redskin.
Tired of losing to a bunch of scumbags who consistently take cheap shots on Eagles. I hope we sigń WR Harry Douglas in free agency just so he can chop block Kerrigans knees twice a year. Tired of that scumbag franchise and it’s vile disgusting owner
..
Lol Shout out to RG3 and the Browns for getting picked off throwing a flea flicker in Tripple coverage from their own ENDZONE. Lol great job guys
Problem is we need a good slot corner. Or starting slot being out is the biggest difference between beginning of the season and now on defense.
seems like every year guy projected to be the starting slot corner goes out for the year. Maybe they need to remove a curse or something.
Interior OL have same curse, so does Lane apparently.
With your desire to cheer for Wentz and you desire to inflict harm on redskins, you may want to look into a job on the North Dakota State Police.
Too soon?
ATG . . .
This comment may very well be your best one.
And you’ve had many, many great ones.
But this particular comment fuses football and Americana so perfectly.
I would like one of our road games switched to a neutral field in London. Preferably vs. franchise whose fans don’t deserve 8 home games like NYG, Dallas, or Washington.
Wish we had Harbaugh as coach
Wouldn’t that be something harbaugh and Schwartz
As long as there’s no requirement for the HC and DC to ever shake hands…
1999 vs 2000 Eagles
What really count my eye when looking at the starters between those 2 teams was just how much changeover there was between 1999 and 2000
On offense, they 5 in place: QB McNabb; RB Staley; WR Small & Johnson; LT Thomas
The 2000 team had a revamped OL by adding RT Runyan via FA, drafting putting three holdovers into starting gigs (Miller at C; Mayberry at RG & Welbourn at LG)
On defense, they 5 in place: DT Thomas; MLB Trotter; CB Vincent and Taylor; FS Dawkins
Key comes in 2000 were trading for Douglas at DE; adding Simon at DT as their 1st round pick, and adding Emmons at strong side LB via FA.
That 99-00 offseason was really good. They made great moves in FA with Emmons and Runyan; traded for Douglas; and made a great 1st round pick in Simon who contributed right away.
This Eagles’ team can possibly make that kind of leap but Roseman is going to just have to kill it this offseason including nailing the 1st round pick.
What I also took away was how effective their revamping of the OL/DL were that offseason. The entire interior OL was replaced and improved and they added two starters who paid huge dividends on the DL.
This team got out to a great start in large part to how well the OL and DL played. OL injuries and Johnson suspension have gotten them attention but this DL has its share of questions beyond Cox & Graham next year too.
BS77 —
One correction.
Rhodes traded for Hugh Douglas in March 1998.
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/03/14/sports/football-jets-douglas-deemed-an-ill-fit-is-traded-to-the-eagles-for-picks.html
Rhodes assembled quite a bit of defensive — which Jim Johnson fully exploited.
Good point and a big miss on my part.
Thanks for this. I thought I was going crazy because I was sure we traded for Douglas before Reid got here. But I was to lazy to look it up myself.
A lot of what made 2001-2004 great was drafted by or added by Rhodes.
Great list, but how the F are you going to skip including HOF level talent Brian Mitchell? Mitchell infused a lot of attitude and winning know-how onto this team.
Another oversight.
why not Belicheck?
Not realistic harbaugh could prob be had for the right price. Yes I know you are being sarcastic
Does anyone thing Pats OC/DC would be good HCs?
I think Matt Patricia will be the Belichick disciple who’ll turn out to be a huge succes. Sadly, I also think it will be as the Head Coach of the Patriots when Belichick retires.
I don’t agree with you here. Belichick is essentially the D coordinator. What does Patricia actually do?
Actually, from what I’m reading and hearing about the Pats defense, Matt Patricia is actually the one running the defense now. Its obviously still Belichicks defense, but Patricia calls plays and have made changes, IIRC he was a big part of the whole hybridization between their usual 34 into whatever the hell they run now.
maybe but I’d stay away based on prior assistants’ performance as HC.
Good question, but no.
Anyone wishing we had Adam Gase, just trying to compare their success vs ours this year?
no
If you follow the chain of events, it’s highly unlikely we end up with Carson Wentz, and are still stuck with the contracts of Byron and Kiko had we gotten Gase.
No.
I’m no fan of Pederson, but we gotta let this run its course. I’d be for jettisoning him next year when it’s not as much of a hit against the franchise. If we don’t get a couple players from the draft this year, Roseman would be on notice in Year 3.
I hate that it’s so hard to judge Roseman. I gotta think he’s the problem (how many of our posts talk about talent)?
Also unclear to me if OC is any good? Good thing about paying for All-22 is seeing if Carson is missing open receivers, if receivers are getting open, if plays are being executed well, etc.
Truthfully, I think the issue is Lurie (root cause). Pederson and Roseman are just a symptom of a larger issue.
Its almost like Gase has better offensive weapons to work with and a non rookie QB.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pattisonave/If-accountability-matters-with-the-Eagles-Roseman-must-go-.html
Marcus Hayes – No. Next.
Hayes is totally off base here. This isn’t the time be firing the GM, HC, OC, or DC.
And the funny thing is it looks like Howie had a great draft (1 year in subject to change ofc). Wentz looks like a franchise QB with elite potential, Seumalo looks like a quality swing guard/centre at worst and a possible long term starter. Big V grew a lot during his playing time and has the physical tools to be a NFL RT, should be an interesting player to develop. Mills looks like a decent CB to develop and has shown a lot for a rookie and Smallwood looks like a nice rotation back for the long term.
I take issue with your word “here”. Hayes is ALWAYS off base. He’s the worst journalist ever. Period.
He’s definitely not the best columnist in town.
Getting rid of Howie would be absurd.
I guess there will always be Roseman haters in our midst, and if Eagles should win a trophy while he’s here, the narrative will be “…in spite of…” I was looking for his departure a few years ago, when the FO seemed lie a carousel of journeymen scouts, and we lived through years of pathetic defensive picks in the draft. But I believe in Lurie, and if HR’s his man, I suspect Howie is smart enough to sign a top-notch evaluator and give him a long leash. That dreck from Hayes is almost laughable.
I’m no Roseman fan and didn’t want him rehired last year. I wanted a new GM from outside the organization but this is ridiculous.
Can’t just shift midstream yet again.
The thing about Lurie and HR is the latter is the former’s proxy, imo. Jeff Lurie is not a hands-on owner a la Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder. Those guys have Jason Garrett and Bruce Allen. Jerry and Steve Jones are honcho owner roost-rulers, and they have a HC who is comfortable with that arrangement. Franchise decisions are not in Garrett’s purview. Snyder has a link to his beloved Washington ancestry with Allen, who has experience in FO machinations, and Allen can temper Snyder’s emotional fan perspective. The hiring of Scot McCloughan as GM looks like Allen’s good influence on his boss, as the intuitive aspects of evaluation are probably beyond Snyder’s patience and temperament.
Jeff Lurie seems to have no natural involvement in football, and he wants HR’s smarts and loyalty to provide some insulation from direct involvement like the Jones’s have in Dallas, but he appears to have more trust in HR than Snyder has in Allen. That is my detached theory.
Rather than critique HR as up to building the team or not, I think the question needs to revert to the owner. Why are mediocre drafts the calling card of his ownership? If HR is not the guy with the insights to acquire the right players, why hasn’t he hired somebody who is? But HR has had some time and room to grow. Acquiring Wentz seems to be the culmination of experience ranging from the perceived indispensability of No.5, to the plodding mediocrity of Nick Foles, and the high cost of moving up in the draft. The Chip Kelly era underscored the frustration of building an above-average team around an average QB. Jeff Lurie seemed to be sold on the notion that risks have to be taken to try to improve. Hiring Kelly was one such risk, and trading up to get a franchise QB was another. So I see the maneuvering to land Wentz, and the hiring of DP as owner decisions that HR was told to get done. Perhaps the hiring of Joe Douglas was a realization that that high draft rounds have to yield more high-tier starters. I suspect Lurie cringes when reading a piece such as Hayes wrote re: HR. It’s Lurie’s team, and HR’s his guy. I think Hayes’ piece misses the tight relationship that Lurie is not about to terminate.
Yeah there should be some accountability – hack click bate beat writers should be fired for writing this tripe.
I mean how is the OL Howies fault? he spent big fixing the interior and improved depth with a good cheap depth vet, and drafted 2 OL both who look like promising and interesting long term options. 4th string RT’s with a torn tendon tend to not block so good… but hardly the fault of the GM if you are in that position.
I could go on and on but really people need to put the year in perspective – outside of Seattle/Greenbay/Bengals stretch where the defence fell apart and we were blown out this has been a team that has held tough with a really tough schedule while blooding a rookie QB. Look at the losses outside of those 3 bad games. We should have beaten Lions and Cowboys if not for RB fumbles. Wentz threw 2 picks (which turned into 14 points) to start the game against the Giants and we ended up close. And a pair of losses against a pretty good Redskins team, where we had chances to make plays and win games.
Closeness in those games can be as much attributed to the defense as it can to the offense.
Yeah, Mathews and Smallwood may have fumbled, but they’re not the ones who let the Lions/Cowboys offenses march right down the field in the 4th quarter to win/tie.
I have no problem loosing close games against teams that are playoff bound with a team that went 4-12 and is starting a rookie QB. The ‘funk’ 3 games were awful but hardly a reason to blow up the entire organisation. This was not a complete team when we started the season – everyone was predicting 5-6 wins, the team had plenty of ‘band aid’ solutions at key positions and unsuprisingly bargain basement corners get exploited sometimes by elite QB’s.
I mean the guy did have to motivate his own players last year..and then canned the hack coach that was ruining his team. What more do you want from Lurie? Public executions of players and coaches?
That might make it tough to attract free agents…
Although, I am intrigued by the idea of a fan vote following each loss to select a player for execution next to the Rocky statue.
Nah just stonings.
I want an owner who understands the game and puts a premium on winning, not public relations. I want an owner who knows how to build influence with the league.
So you want Jerry Jones? Ok.
Well, if you choose to live in a binary world, not much I can do to help you.
Yes sure he could have said it. However after starting 3-0 his words would have been quickly forgotten.
Man, don’t put up links to that clickbait loser, you’re just doing him a favor.
You can keep Harbaugh. He left a mess in San Fran and got himself fired right before those chickens came home to roost.
That’s not quite how it happened. They had a bunch of players retire after he was canned. I’d read that more as players not wanting to play for Tomsula than anything Harbaugh did. The QB situation, sure, blame Harbaugh.
This roster is bad all around. Need to nail this draft.
gotta start with the line, needs all over the place I know, but you gotta protect wentz first and foremost
I just don’t get the OL narrative – we have had problems this year for sure, but that is due to excessive injuries combined with suspension to Johnson. Barbre when starting at LG has been good this year, Brooks had a slowish start with scheme transition but has been good in the run game and has not been giving up sacks. Peters looks like he is going to back – and outside of giving away a false start a game almost he still destroys people in the run game and does not give up sacks. Johnson before the suspension was the best RT in football. Kelce struggles with power NT’s and does not get a lot of push in the run game, but he does not give up many sacks or pressures in pass pro and is elite pulling and in space. Maybe you look to get cheaper and younger at Center but he is a mid level NFL center.
Go watch the first 4 games and i dare anyone to come away with the conclusion that we have a significant short term needs at OL. What we did have problems with this year is having no OL consistency – loosing our best offensive player (Johnson) and replacing him with a raw project 5th round player – then loosing him and others through out the year at guard causing a constant shuffle inside in the last 4 games. Seumalo has looked promising in his limited starts so far (go see Kempski’s hack breakdown) and as a depth RT Vaitai has shown significant progress and potential for the long term.
Depth isnt even the issue, think the talent at Guard has been good coming in with Wiz and Seumalo – just lack of RT talent and general lack of continuity.
Do the Eagles need to draft a project C and another Tackle project? probably, but neither of those things need to be forced or to happen early in the draft.
All we need is a LG. We don’t draft and develop promising young OL just to replace them with different promising young OL the next year. This is especially true when you consider how many needs this team has.
USA Today’s Tom Pelissero reports teams were informed on Tuesday that
the salary cap is expected to rise to between $166-170 million in 2017.
Welcome back, DeSean.
I’m surprised a bit given all of the flak the Eagles have taken the past month that their safeties haven’t taken more.
Yeah McLeod got some flak about that end zone play vs Bengals but he has been below average/lousy in coverage. He isn’t awful in coverage opposing QBs should look to throw on him every chance they get when he is 1-on-1 with a WR. Just can’t cover them and keep up with them horizontally or vertically. Almost hope is a route where the WR runs a curl or something underneath that gives decent him a chance stay close and tackle the WR to limit his YAC.
As for Jenkins, the Pro Bowl talk has really fallen off for him. Yeah he has had to play in more 1-on-1 matchups too vs WR in the slot or otherwise but he has real struggles too in coverage vs WR especially in man.
Eagles invested a ton of money into the safety position last offseason and I do question the return they have gotten for it in terms of production. Jenkins still has had a decent year overall but the more I have seen of McLeod the less he does anything for me. Not Watkins bad but he is getting paid to be a Top 10 S at his position and he hasn’t lived up that billing either. Been pretty mediocre overall.
You’re just completely ignoring that Jenkins has been playing slot corner half the year, while McLeod has had to make up for all the mistakes of a 7th round rookie corner, a half injured McKelvin, whatever Carroll’s issues are, and a outmatched Watkins playing the other side and a scheme which puts a lot of pressure on the safeties in the first place. Like when posters were complaining about Cox’s stats, the ability of the players around them will severely impact their ability to play their position.
So you expect a SS to match up 1v1 with a WR?
McLeod was not brought here to match up 1v1 with a WR, Jenkins is one of the rare guys who can (former CB)
When was the last time two teams starting the season at 3-0 and 5-0 have eventually missed the playoffs in the same season!?
its funny who those teams are and the connection
way to many people on the “we’re competing this year” wagon. This year was(is) all about Wentz. Wentz is in place and now they are finding out about players they kept. Next year starts the building blocks. We have a pretty good idea on who Wentz is, now they need to build around him…This team doesn’t need to learn to win. Once they build(and hopefully the do it right), then THAT team can learn to win…..
Was on an island, alone, with the “not a Pederson” fan. Now I have company. LOL. Crowd is starting to form.
“Was on an island, alone, with the “not a Pederson” fan. Now I have company. LOL. Crowd is starting to form”…a true Negadelphian basking in their glory.
‘the automatic Dave response to everyones comments’….Why is that negative? I didn’t say Pederson is going to fail. I’m not screaming I don’t want him here. None of that was said. I don’t have to like a guy for him to be successful. I was the one drawing comparison to the Dallas coach and saying Pederson needs time.
….
Sad life to live thinking everything is a negative. Sun comes up everyday….
Didn’t like the hire either and honestly haven’t seen much to change my mind. Not looking for him to get fired, but wouldn’t mind seeing him delegate play calling. Not a lot of guys come to mind who have been successful HC’s and called their own plays.
p.s. – I do think you may have been “basking” a bit with those last couple of lines though
negative
[neg-uh-tiv]
lacking in constructiveness, helpfulness, optimism, cooperativeness, or the like:
a man of negative viewpoint.
Watching Dallas stumble upon a starting qb, along with their stud RB and go 11-2 doesn’t help matters when they finished 4-12 last year. I know Dallas will unravel like always but still.
against who though? Seattle is struggling. Maybe the Packers? I could really see a Dallas – Pats SB (god no), and my first thought is put all my money on Belicheck against a rookie QB. ALL my money.
Yet I’d likely root for the Cowboys lest I hear about yet another Pats SB win, and how “no one thought they could do it this year” and “there isn’t even anyone good on the team, it’s just that they play as a team and no one else in the NFL does that” and all that related BS.
Play the long game. Dallas has a real shitty cap situation (though the deal that Smith signed at LT pisses me off, he could have gotten at least 35% more) and they are a few injuries away from being bottom dwellers again.
They’ve been fortunate; Sean Lee has stayed healthy. When Dez was out, they were able to grind on defenses with Elliot. Now that there is some tape out there, they will be exposed.
Yes, I’m down with the long game (for them, I don’t want to think about our long game. I mean, not at all).
What’s the situation with that OL as far as salary? How long are they locked up? You see with Seattle that teams are going to lure your talent away when you’re successful.
Really depends what they do with Martin and Collins going forward; and they are going to need a RT. Their LT is the best in the game, and they are paying him Top 20 money, on a 10 year deal. Romo will hurt their cap next year. I’ll dig into it after work tonight.
Overthecap.com is amazing. If you have time, check it out.
And yes, I agree. Our long game is questionable at best, but we have a stud qb locked up for 5 years (Dak is only 4 bc of his draft status). But we need to hit on our first round picks, like they do. Difference makers all around
Don’t agree, and won’t be in your crowd. I was wary of the Pederson hire, but have been encouraged by what I’ve seen. Have there been low points? Sure. Has he made stupid coaching decisions? Some red flag challenges come to mind.
But I’ve also seen some pretty smart game planning. Some pretty creative play design and play calling. At times that’s fallen apart but it’s been there more often then not. And while recently we’ve been wondering why the team didn’t “show up to play” in games like Cincinnati, he certainly got them to show up for games like Pittsburgh, Minnesota, and Atlanta.
I’m not saying he’s a genius, or even our coach in 4 years, but I’m certainly not going to tell anyone “man, you were right, he’s terrible”, because he’s not. He’s a rookie head coach, and at times, it’s shown. But at other times, he’s done way better than I expected, and I’m interested to see what he does the rest of this year and into next.
http://www.phillyvoice.com/isaac-seumalo-game-review-gifs-and-stuff/
Seumalo looking good against the ‘Skins. Might have found a good starting guard. This draft last years draft was really all about Wentz, but it looks like a few other players might pan out well. Smallwood might not be a bellcow type guy but as your 2nd or 3rd back he looks good. Big V started rough but held his own as time went on, and Seumalo looking pretty nice as well. Jalen Mills is what he is but you could do worse if he was your 4th or 5th DB, not bad for a 7th rounder.
Sadly this season really is all about the future, and it’s nice in a draft where we didn’t have a lot of picks to see a few later rounders looking like they could pan out.
Good points!! I hope everything with Brooks works out. I hear this draft is going to be filled with good corners…..let’s get our next Lito and Sheldon please!!!
I miss Lito and Sheldon so much. That Dawk/Lito/Sheldon/Lewis secondary we had going for a while was so beast.
It’s a shame Jevon Kearse kind of busted with us, we really needed that pass rush and he didn’t deliver.
I think Seumalo and Wentz will be the biggest hits and if you get two great starters per draft, you are well set
Mills will be a nickle/dime CB once we actually have 2 starters. Big V projects best as a backup swing tackle right now.
mills has played as well as any corner we’ve had in the last 5 years
I laughed then I cried.
No he hasnt. Brandon Boykin in 2013 is still some of the best CB since Samuel in 2008
Yep, agree.
Seumalo working out would be excellent for us as our OL has been so neglected.
If moving forward we could have 3 positions locked down, Seumalo at LG, Brooks at RG, and Johnson at LT, that would be a huge win I think.
Seumalo is C in 2018
I like that as well. I’d love to know your take on his play, Jimmy’s analysis sounded really encouraging.
I’m pretty much where Jimmy is. Although I thought he played well enough in preseason they should have gone to him at G instead of Wiz earlier in the year. Tie goes to the youth. He should start the rest of the year. He’s playing pretty much where I expected pre-draft, he doesnt’ have a monster ceiling, but had a very high floor.
Keep in mind he was injured early in the year. Also, could Big V move in to play guard, or is he purely a tackle?
In a pinch sure, but he’s never played G in his life. He’s not a guy who would be helped from moving inside. His strengths are good length and solid athleticism. Those get negated inside.
That’s comforting to hear. We really needed to hit on some draft picks besides just Wentz and it seems we have.
Curious, why not 2017? Do you see him as a backup for another year, or starting at guard for the 2017 season?
G in 2017.
ignoring our C and G situation, in a vacuum is Seumalo a G or a C?
He can play either, don’t think there’s a huge differnce for him. More likely to be a top 10 C than G
I confuse when Big V and Seumalo were picked, can someone tell me so I don’t have to look it up.
Seumalo 3rd (79)
Vaitai 5th (164)
thank you for rewarding my laziness
Seumalo was a 3rd round pick and Big V was 5th
is it time to trade Jordan Matthews?
If Chip offers something stupid in the offseason, then sure.
I would say that their 2nd round pick would suffice. That’s implying that Chip is still in the league of course.
I’m open to trading anyone if it means building a winner (except Wentz, of course).
Sign Michael Floyd please
5 underachieving WRs on one team? Why not? Just need to cut Barner or Marshall to stash a soon to be suspended WR!
I’ve seen him make a play once, which is 1 more than any of the guys on our roster
Guy at least catches the ball
haha nah that guy has bad hands too man.
Catches as well as Jordan Matthews. Dude put up #2 WR numbers with Fitzgerald on the other side of him smh. Now he’s the #4 WR, Floyd is the Reuben Randle of the NFC West.
Im already over. I found why he was released. We already have enough stupid on our team.
He would at least be the one with the most wasted potential.
Well he’s pretty much a bust in the Cardinals eyes, one man’s trash is another man’s treasure eh?
Would it be wrong to sign Floyd after cutting Huff?
Umm isnt he getting benched? Has bad hands too..
Bad hands never stopped us from signing a guy.
Yeah this is his second DUI this time he was found asleep behind the wheel. He could have killed someone, so eff that guy.
I like him but what kills me about Matthews is it wasn’t that he tried to get his foot down and physically because of space/speed etc. could not, it’s that he didn’t even have the presence to try. He just runs the pattern. It’s brutal to watch.
Matthews hasnt ever made that play. Not the first time time hes done that
someone brought up the Pats coordinators as HC candidates. the other problem (aside from history of Pats coordinators as HC) is that you can’t hire them until after the SB, and few teams will wait that long.
I see what you did there.
Brooks receiving treatment for anxiety related to an obsessive condition. The guy was so good about reaching out to fans when he joined the team, hopefully fans show him the same humanity.
Damn man seen some fans saying he shouldnt have signed the deal to come over n waste of signing etc. Now you know why some people dont come out with these issues coz of idiots like that.
I’m LIVID this guy missed two games for a treatable medical condition; but I don’t blame him. He wants to play. He wants to play well. He showed these same symptoms in Houston last year. I can’t believe this wasn’t nailed down prior to now.
Wow, I wonder what exacerbated the situation to the point that he couldn’t play. I have to imagine that he could just pop a benzo and go or is that a banned substance?
Sounds like he didn’t know that it was anxiety. I can emphaisize. Ive been there.
Huh, should be interesting to see how it plays out.
We will never hear about it again…other than the media being super nosy.
How horrible for him that he was showing all of these symptoms to two franchises, but they can’t get a diagnosis and treatment nailed down for the dude until now.
I suppose you have never been near people with these sort of things?
It can take years before a right diagnosis is reached because at first they only react to the physical condition not thinking there is anything emotional
Complete and utter nonsense that Brooks was failed by both the Texans and Eagles “medical” staffs.
You know this might sound crazy but Embiid and Okafor look awfully good on the court together… Maybe instead of trading Okafor the twin towers idea could work after all.
I think it is match up dependent, but Embiid is good enough defensively to offset some of Okafors weakness in that area and good luck long term finding C/PF pairing that can consistently match up with them offensively, especially longer term as they both continue to add range and offensive skills.
It’s scary to think of how raw Embiid is and that he’s probably going to get better.
If he stays healthy he is going to be a top 3 player at some point. His talent is transcendent.
And we have Simmons coming behind him who also might be close to that if he develops a jump shot.
Giannis transitioning into a superstar already even tho he can’t shoot outside of like 5 feet makes me even more bullish on Simmons. Their games are very similar. Giannis prob will be a better defender. Simmons the better passer.
Fultz looks like a stud if they could somehow luckbox him a core of Embiid/Simmons/Fultz would be pretty much unstoppable by like 2019 which times up perfectly with Lebron getting old.
lol, Embiid is shooting 44% from 3. That’s obscene. Has there ever been another big who can shoot the 3 like that? I can’t think of anyone off the top of my head.
Dirk Nowitzki?
True, he is a tall accurate shooter, but he’s not nearly the banger inside that Embiid is, he’s sort of a finesse 4 rather than a true 5.
No, obviously not, but Dirk can shoot with the best of them. Not talking among bigs, like overall in the NBA. Terrific pure shooter. Another one would be Kevin Garnett, although another PF primarily.
I can’t recall a huge Center with that kind of shot, but im not a huge NBA guy. Maybe simply because shooting big men gets played as PFs.
Wow, just read Brooks’ comments about his condition. Really solid stuff. It’s interesting that his obsession is to be perfect on gameday. Doesn’t sound like it’s something that’s going to slow down his career, if anything this will make him better.
This guy is the total opposite of Shawn Andrews. I really feel badly for him that he was totally failed by doctors on multiple teams.
Well his symptoms are really odd, waking up and vomiting for a full 24 hours? That’s just… I’ve never heard of that before.
Exactly. And when “ulcer” didn’t check out………seems kind of negligent.
True, seems like something that needed further examination. Seems like the Eagles medical staff is a little more competent than the Texans.
Well, not really. They evidently had this diagnosed after he missed the Green Bay game, yet he still missed the Washington game two weeks later.
Well, they did diagnose it right? That’s a step up from what the Texans were able to do.
That’s certainly true, but I’m not totally sure why they didn’t get his meds right more quickly.
Some meds for anxiety/depression take a couple weeks to get in the system and start working. If he’s taking anti-depressants, stuff like selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs) are ones that take awhile to work in the system.
That said, I don’t know what they are giving him and if it’s a cocktail of anti-depressants and something else.
Frustratingly slow.
Also add to the fact that counseling also needs to take effect for the full effect.
I only vomit for about 10 minutes .. a full day must be relentless pain
挺好的，祝你快乐
Did we sign Michael Floyd yet?
Get it done Howie!!!