Lining Up Hints

Posted: December 14th, 2016 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 167 Comments »

Deep Purple is one of the greatest bands of all time. They have one of the greatest live albums of all time, Made in Japan. There is a funny moment when singer Ian Gillan is trying to get the sound adjusted on stage and he jokingly says “Can we have everything louder than everything else?”. Obviously that’s impossible. You have to pick and choose what you focus on.

The Eagles have to pick and choose how to fix this team in the offseason. They can’t add a star CB, star WR, star RB, star OL and star DL. They only have one 1st round pick and they have a budget to deal with in free agency (not to mention limited options). It will be fascinating to see how the Eagles proceed. How do they build up the team around Carson Wentz?

The first thing to keep in mind is that there is no perfect formula. Seattle spends most of their money on defense. They ask Russell Wilson to carry the offense and make the guys around him better. Tom Brady was surrounded by role players from 2001-2006. Good ones, but still role players. He’s had elite guys like Randy Moss and Rob Gronkowski since then. Dallas has spent a lot of resources on their O-line in recent years and built their offense around that. Oakland and Detroit have focused more on the OL in recent years and it seems to be working for them. Denver won the Super Bowl last year based on an elite defense.

No magic formula. No right answer.

So what will the Eagles do?

I always remind you to read Dave Spadaro, in case he’s offering hints. He just posted a column that just might be a hint: Offensive Line A Priority Looking Ahead. Maybe this is just Dave throwing out his opinion. Or maybe this is the team, trying to get the fanbase ready for the fact they won’t be focusing the offseason on adding WRs.

As we all know, the offensive line is where it all happens in this game. Look at the mess in Los Angeles for the Rams, who can’t get star running back Todd Gurley unlocked because of a terrible offensive line (among other things). Oakland’s offense has been dynamic, but last week in Kansas City the Chiefs dominated the line of scrimmage and shut down quarterback Derek Carr and the Raiders. Dallas won 11 consecutive games until the Giants pressured quarterback Dak Prescott on Sunday night and the Cowboys scored all of seven points in a loss. The stories are consistent in the NFL: A good offensive line usually means a good offense. A great offensive line means great things.

The goal, then, is to have a great offensive line here. The Eagles can’t take chances with that, as the Colts have done by subjecting franchise quarterback Andrew Luck to so many hits that his body failed him in 2015 and for parts of this season.

Yes, for sure, the Eagles need weapons. They need pieces. First and foremost, though, they need to be sure they have the right ingredients for a great offensive line – with continuity among the starters, reliable depth behind them and some young players in development in the third tier – to keep Wentz clean, to continue his progress and to give this offense a fighting chance in the very strong NFC East.

Hint or opinion? I’m not sure.

I do think it is very possible he’s right either way and the Eagles will focus up front. Doug Pederson is an Andy Reid protege and we know Big Red loved adding offensive linemen. Howie Roseman also developed under Reid and I’m sure he’s got many of the same beliefs.

So let’s talk about the OL. The Eagles have some pieces to work with, but also some questions to answer. What do you do with Jason Peters? Lane Johnson? Jason Kelce? Have you seen enough from Isaac Seumalo and Big V to see them as potential answers, whether in 2017 or the future?

Peters is probably the key to this situation. He has had a solid season, but is a declining player. Peters remains a good LT, but he’s not the elite player he was in past years. He will be 35 next year and has a cap figure of $11.2M. My guess is that the Eagles keep him another season. Tra Thomas was the LT prior to him and you could see in 2008 that Thomas was done. Age and injuries took their toll on his body. Peters isn’t at that level yet.

Keeping Peters gives you stability at the most important spot on the line. It also lets you add players in the draft and take a look at them before forcing them into the lineup.

Lane Johnson is a tricky subject. He was off to a terrific start this year. He is a good RT with great potential. I think he can move to LT and be a stud on that side. But he does have the suspension issue. You can look at that a couple of ways. On one hand, he is a positive test away from a 2-year ban and shouldn’t be trusted. On the other hand, he didn’t test positive for the same substance so this isn’t a case of complete stupidity or neglect. Also, he tested positive for something to try to improve himself. This isn’t Bernard Williams we’re talking about.

There is risk with Johnson, but there is risk with every NFL player. The Eagles lost young stars Byron Evans, Andy Harmon and Chris T. Jones to injuries. The Eagles lost Danny Watkins because he preferred fighting fires to playing football. Players come and go for all kinds of reasons. When you have a good OL, you keep him. The Eagles need to protect themselves financially, but they should plan on Johnson being part of the future.

Heading into 2017, the projected OL should be:

LT Jason Peters
LG Isaac Seumalo
OC Jason Kelce
RG Brandon Brooks
RT Lane Johnson ……. Halapoulivaati Vaitai

Josh Andrews is a backup now and the coaches seem to like him, but they never seem in a rush to get him on the field. You want to upgrade on him. Dillon Gordon and Darrell Greene should be brought back to compete for jobs. Gordon showed a lot of potential this summer. We didn’t get to see G/C Aaron Neary this summer, but the Eagles like him and is worth keeping as competition. But you can see the Eagles need depth. Peters is a short term player. You could slide Johnson to his side and put Big V at RT, but you still need young, talented players to add to the mix.

Jason Kelce is worth keeping, but I would challenge him. Bring in a player who can seriously battle for that job. Kelce is smart and athletic, but erratic. He has a couple of bad plays that get everyone’s attention and they think he’s awful. That’s just not the case. That said, the Eagles need to make Kelce fight for his job. He hasn’t played so well that you pencil him in and only look at other spots.

We talk a lot about wanting to upgrade the line or make changes. Let’s look at the 3 best units of the last 15 years.


LT Tra Thomas
LG John Welbourn
OC Hank Fraley
RG Jermane Mayberry
RT Jon Runyan


LT Tra Thomas
LG Todd Herremans
OC Jamaal Jackson
RG Shawn Andrews
RT Jon Runyan


LT Jason Peters
LG Evan Mathis
OC Jason Kelce
RG Todd Herremans
RT Lane Johnson

The biggest thing you should think about as you look at those units is that they were built over time. OLs are not thrown together in a single season. It takes multiple years to draft, sign and develop players. You are going to have failures. You are going to have some players that develop slowly.

The Eagles want to put Carson Wentz behind a really good OL. That is going to take time. They do need to bring in bodies this offseason to start developing, but be patient with the process. Mayberry was a 1st round pick in 1996 and he was brought in to block Dallas DT Leon Lett. But the Eagles decided to try him at OT and that didn’t go so well. He eventually found a home at RG and proved to be a good player. Welbourn started off at RT, but got hurt. The team signed Runyan to be the RT so Welbourn got moved to LG.

The Eagles acquired the OL above in a variety of ways. Some were high picks, some UDFAs. Some were pricey free agents and others were cut by teams. You find good players all over. I don’t anticipate the team spending money on a huge free agent OL this offseason, but they would be wise to add some journeymen types. You never know which of them could be the next Evan Mathis.

Carson Wentz looks like a really good QB. The Eagles need to build a good line to protect him. Build. Not buy/rent/patch together. It will take at least a couple of years for them to bring in talent and see who pans out. There will be failures. That’s okay as long as there are also successes and the Eagles can put together a talented group that can stay together for a few years.


We found out today about Brandon Brooks dealing with anxiety which leads to his gameday illnesses. This is certainly something the team will keep in mind as they build the line, but Brooks seems like a high character guy and I think he and the team will be able to work through this.

I give him a ton of credit for being open and honest about the situation. He’s got nothing to be ashamed of, but it would have been easy to try to play this off. Instead, he shared his situation with everyone and that tells you he’s the kind of guy that has a good chance to get past his issues. He wants to succeed. That’s half the battle.


167 Comments on “Lining Up Hints”

  1. 1 Greg Tulino said at 11:40 PM on December 14th, 2016:

    I want to compete for the division and the playoffs next year. Cut as many declining players as possible to free up as much money as possible and land a starting CB & WR in FA. Then draft BPA in first few rounds of the draft. I think that is realistic and will give us a chance to win next year. Meanwhile you can still execute Tommy’s plan to build our O-line while going with this O-line to start next year:

    LT Jason Peters ( Hopefully on a restructured deal to free up some cap space)
    LG Isaac Seumalo
    OC Jason Kelce
    RG Brandon Brooks
    RT Lane Johnson

    I am not willing to except a rebuild. Nor will this fan base. We can compete next year with a solid offseason ( free agency, trades, draft).

  2. 2 Greg Tulino said at 11:42 PM on December 14th, 2016:

    I recognize JP is declining, but we can get by with him next year especially if he would agree to a restructured deal that would free up money to improve the roster. After all he wants to go to the playoffs and I bet he is willing to help us out to improve the team’s chances to get to the PO’s in 2017.

  3. 3 Cafone said at 1:12 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    The eagles will most likely be 5-10 million under the cap throughout the 2017 season, just like they always are. Why should Peters give back money that won’t be used anyway?

  4. 4 kajomo said at 11:58 PM on December 14th, 2016:

    Agreed we should cut declining players.

    I don’t get how keeping an aging, expensive JP helps this team in the long run. I’d keep Kelce over Peters just because of money. I’d rather have a shot at a stud WR or CB that can be a corner stone for the next 4-6 years.

  5. 5 Cafone said at 12:07 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    Peters could help in the long run by not getting Carson Wentz killed.

    You don’t get rid of a good OT when you don’t have his replacement ready to go. He’s expensive because he’s worth it.

  6. 6 kajomo said at 12:14 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    Vaitai + Alshon Jeffery > Peters and these same WRs.

    I also think we could trade JP and add a draft pick.

  7. 7 wee2424 said at 12:17 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    Who is going to take his cap hit?

  8. 8 Media Mike said at 5:24 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    I’m sure a few teams would if they had a bad injury and/or need to upgrade.

  9. 9 wee2424 said at 10:18 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    He will be another year older, and it is safe to assume that his play will decline further. I just don’t see a team willing to take on the cap hit he will carry.

  10. 10 Fufina said at 2:31 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    Disagree – I am relatively high on Vaitai longer term but he is a raw prospect. To help him out we were needing to leave in an extra blocker almost every down and it killed any creativity in our offensive game and really damaged our ability to run the ball.

    Jeffery is going to cost >> Peters to sign and has his own injury and suspension issues. Think we keep Peters 1 final year while we evaluate both Vaitai and Johnson (and maybe another developmental mid round tackle) and then in 2018 if we need to replace Peters we can focus on the draft or free agency.

  11. 11 Cafone said at 12:10 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    I am willing to accept a rebuild. And I’m a season ticket holder. I pay for these games.

  12. 12 Greg Tulino said at 12:16 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    I pay for the same games as a season ticket holder. You are entitled to wanting a rebuild. It’s my opinion the majority would prefer to try to compete as soon as next season with a good offseason to fill some needs in free agency and a solid draft. We all recognize we can’t fix everything in one off-season, but I feel this team has enough talent with a young QB that could lead us to the playoffs as early as next year.

  13. 13 Cafone said at 12:19 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    The most important thing is protecting that young QB so we have a chance to win for the next 10-15 years.

  14. 14 Greg Tulino said at 12:22 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    I agree. If the opportunity presents itself to draft a potential stud Lineman then lets do it. No reason we can’t win in the meantime while we work to get as strong as possible in the trenches.

  15. 15 Cafone said at 12:15 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    I agree that offensive line should the the first priority, over WR, over CB, over everything. We need to find Wentz his bookend OTs, his Thomas/Runyan, and we need to do it before Jason Peters retires. The problem is, unless Howie works more crazy trade magic, we are not going to be in a position for a top tackle in the draft. And unless there some sort of guaranteed perennial pro bowler available, I do not like spending first round picks on guards. It’s most likely going to have to be in free agency, either this offseason or next.

  16. 16 unhinged said at 1:36 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    Both Washington and Dallas went first round on top guards, and it looks to be paying off for both. Scherff and Martin were both touted, but that is no guarantee, as Jacksonville has learned (Luke Joeckel has been a bust). Regarding top tackles, the best one ever to wear Eagle green was a UDFA. I think it takes patience and planning, and great high school scouting. Many OL are oversized in their youth, and the sooner you start tracking them the more you know when they become eligible. Of course Lane Johnson was a QB and I think JP was a tight-end, so there is no cookie cutter. I would just like to see constant attention to quality, strength and depth at the OL.

  17. 17 Flyineagle45 said at 6:53 AM on December 17th, 2016:

    I think Luke might be worth trying to acquire for mid-late rounder. He may need new scenery, new coaching or he may just be a bust. He def has talent but someone just needs needs to mold the turd into a diamond.

  18. 18 三五营销 said at 12:58 AM on December 15th, 2016:


  19. 19 Sean Stott said at 1:18 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    I disagree that the O-line is the first priority. Been unlucky with injuries and suspensions this year, and the O-line is still middling at worst.

    I think we need a quality CB, and a stud WR. The problem with J.Matt, NA, and DGB is that they all look like they could be quality guys, but all of them have severe limitations. We need someone to take over the #1 spot and make all the others compete for their jobs. In addition, a RB is needed.

  20. 20 Anders said at 6:00 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    I think if Agholor has a guy on the other side who can be the main guy, he might press less and improve.
    With Matthews and Ertz, they need a guy who can move safeties away from the middle so they only have to fight against LBs and slot CBs

  21. 21 Cafone said at 1:10 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Why would you favor Agholor over DGB at this point? Beckham has clearly been a better WR since they’ve been drafted.

  22. 22 Cafone said at 1:09 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    While I disagree with those that always want to retire Jason Peters before he is done, the day is coming when he will no longer be at LT. We can move Johnson over there, but that leaves us without a RT. Vaitai is not ready to be a solid starter. He most likely will never be. The Eagles need two good tackles.

  23. 23 BobSmith77 said at 1:56 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    Kelce has been subpar now and downright lousy even by his own admission last year a few times.

    Really hope he isn’t back here and starting for a third consecutive year. Likely will be though given the other numerous needs and roster holes.

  24. 24 Fufina said at 2:25 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    Not sure i agree with that assessment at all. Kelce does give up penalties – and that is a problem, and can be inconsistent with his shotgun snaps (but most C’s are at some times). He is not a power rusher and can get pushed around in the run game by big power NT’s.

    However he does not give up sacks, is excellent organising and calling protections, is elite at getting to the second level and and springing big plays when pulling or getting on a LB. He is not a probowl center unless he gets carried in but he is an NFL quality starter and as long as coaches game plan to his strengths he is not the problem on the OL.

    Center tends to be a position you do not notice unless things are going wrong. That 1 penalty, stuffed run play and poor snap in the game stick in your mind and think the center sucks – when the other 60+ snaps have been solid/good and we have completely ignored them.

    Now i am not saying don’t draft a C – we should be regularly with mid/late picks and wait to see if we can develop a younger cheaper option with upside to be better than Kelce… but it is not a priority or need.

  25. 25 Media Mike said at 5:20 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    “However he does not give up sacks,”

    Not directly. But he has caused a ton by being pushed into Wentz’s lap when Wentz gets sacked by a DE who really wouldn’t be anywhere near Wentz if there was a pocket into which he should step up.

  26. 26 BobSmith77 said at 1:06 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    He isn’t elite anymore at getting to the second level either especially this year.

    Yeah some of that has been due to injuries but one of the reasons the screens generally been a real bust with this offense is Kelce’s mobility.

  27. 27 laeagle said at 5:17 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    He’s had some pretty elite plays at the second level this year if you watch the all-22 highlights.

  28. 28 bdbd20 said at 10:48 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    I really wonder if Spuds is alluding to Kelce in his piece. Lane, Brooks, Semalo, Big V will all be here. Stoutland loves Peters. He’s expensive, but certainly could extend.

    Kelce was the project of Howard Mudd. I do wonder if Doug prefers a big guy there. Maybe the envision Semalo taking over.

  29. 29 Media Mike said at 5:18 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    “Instead, he shared his situation with everyone and that tells you he’s the kind of guy that has a good chance to get past his issues. He wants to succeed. That’s half the battle.”

    Brooks shows a lot of guts by both being open about the situation and committed to getting on the field. Shame he was failed by doctors from two franchises.

  30. 30 bill said at 8:20 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    He certainly deserves kudos for being open about mental illness – our society stigmatizes it in an unfortunate way while trying to ignore it (because no one wants to pay for addressing it). But I wouldn’t be so quick to blame the doctors (and people who know me would laugh to hear me say that). The doctors have to rule out all sorts of somatic maladies that could have been causing his symptoms before they can focus on the mental side. I can describe several cases that I’m aware of where they did the opposite (assumed a mental issue from the get go) that ended up in preventable tragedy. And if his symptoms were inconsistent over time, it is very difficult to exclude some dangerous illnesses.

  31. 31 Media Mike said at 5:29 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    Free agent OL list is looking poor.

  32. 32 Anders said at 5:56 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    Both FA and top of draft looks poor.

    2 of WR, CB, RB looks to be the best bet in the first 2 rounds

  33. 33 bill said at 8:58 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    Are there likely to be good WR prospects available when they draft? Would there be a RB who’d be a good value at that point? I’m generally not a fan of 1st rd CBs, who are almost as risky as 1st round QBs re: bust rate, but it seems like if they stay at their pick, a CB would be the best option (although it is obviously really early in the prospect evaluation process).

    edit* – also won’t be surprised to see them draft an edge rusher in the first, if a good one is available.

  34. 34 Anders said at 5:08 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Depending on who you like abs who declares there is around 8-10 guys that could go in the first or second

  35. 35 D3FB said at 8:40 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    No All-Pros but there’s some options to get starting quality guys.

    There should also be some intriguing buy-low options to be had.

  36. 36 bill said at 8:56 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    I’m probably the engineer on the OL train, but I think they’re going to focus on bringing in some journeyman types who are good values, and maybe draft another C/G type to develop. I’m not as high on Vaitai as many, but I do like Seumalo so far and have seen nothing that tells me he can’t be penciled in at G next year. Brooks, barring something terrible should have the other. That leaves room for a young tackle and a young C to push the veterans at those positions and to be depth/developed for the future. (I am with Tommy that some people have unrealistic expectations about NFL Cs, much like they do about NFL CBs). As much I’d like to, I just don’t see how they end up drafting a high tackle or center prospect this year. So it looks like depth Gs are the likely target in FA, unless they do something fairly shocking like moving on from Peters (certainly not impossible, but it seems like they would have to have an NFL ready tackle already in the fold before they make that decision).

  37. 37 Mitchell said at 10:21 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    Are you coming out of retirement?

  38. 38 Insomniac said at 4:44 PM on December 15th, 2016:


    Only names that interest me.

  39. 39 daveH said at 8:17 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    I am unfortunately more interested in learning what is this Brilliant move by 2 math Grads that are disrupting the Auto Insurance Industry

  40. 40 Ark87 said at 9:17 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    Working in the mental health field, I have a ton of respect for Brooks being honest in a sport mostly spectated by a ton of armchair tough-guys.

  41. 41 BobSmith77 said at 2:58 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    We pay cheap lip service to it across the board including access to mental health and stereotypes still around it. Prisons have become the de facto mental health service provider for a large number of people as a result.

    Unfortunately, you are seeing a gradual trend upwards in suicide rates in the country since 2000 too but it isn’t even discussed or when do so glibly.

  42. 42 Ark87 said at 4:42 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Just got back from a big North Carolina Mental Health conference in Pinehurst NC. It’s not a pretty outlook, if we can’t even invest in something society universally cherishes, children and their education, what hopes do we have of getting proper funds to treat a mental health diagnosis. In a red state, when the only time mental health is remembered is when someone with a serious mental illness does something terrible. And then the conversation is how our industry failed, and how we should discriminate against folks with a mental health diagnosis to prevent future tragedies. Anyway the big emphasis this go round is doing more with less money. Pay for performance, outcomes, data for dollars…basically all the crap no child left behind was. And just like kids began getting education tailored to tests, our industry will begin chasing outcomes that look good on a spread sheet and leaves difficult cases out in the cold.

    sorry, I could rant all day, but nobody needs the full version on a football thread.

  43. 43 unhinged said at 12:11 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    The $$$ that can buy votes, control media and swing elections is transforming a republic into a fascist state before a sleeping, distracted population. Hell, this very site is my distraction.

  44. 44 Dave said at 9:29 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    I bookmarked this article by Ross Tucker on offensive lineman evaluation and grading a few years ago…

    I found this fascinating: “The reality is, most left guards should grade out higher than right guards. Most teams are “right-handed,” meaning they often put the strength of the offensive formation to the right side rather than the left. As a result, most slide protections—a zone scheme in which three linemen block two defenders—go to the left, which is customarily the quarterback’s blindside. This means the right guard on most teams has a tougher job because he’s tasked with more one-on-one pass blocking assignments than the left guard.”

    Is this the reason Evan Mathis was always graded so highly? D3FB, any input here?

  45. 45 D3FB said at 5:34 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    RG’s deal with more 3 techs in pass pro, that is correct. Therefore the therefore the LG usually gets to double with the C.

    Alot of teams the RG is the mauler and the LG is the guy who does most of the pulling.

    Not always the case and a bit reductive, but the point overall holds.

    Evan Mathis was graded highly because he was really good. PFF probably was overboard about it

  46. 46 eagleyankfan said at 9:58 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    “Deep Purple is one of the greatest bands of all time.” PREACH! With that sentence you jumped all the way to #1 :). Then you referenced Dave S. Hope it was fun at the top while it lasted….

  47. 47 P_P_K said at 11:43 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    The opening riff to “Smoke on the Water” has been played in more garages than anything else.

  48. 48 Mitchell said at 10:20 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    It sounds like Brooks has performance anxiety which Im sure a lot of players in the NFL have to deal with. Im glad he sout out treatment and I would think he would have been prescribed an SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) which does take several weeks for levels to build up in the synapse and take effect. Good news is, if he started taking them November 28th, he should be feeling the benefit. With 2 kids, a wife, medical school, 2 dogs, several dozen fish and a house to take care of, I recently had to go get a script for anxiety. Worked wonders after a few weeks and I think with continued medication and therapy, Brooks will be just fine and maybe even play better once the anxiety is under control.

  49. 49 ChoTime said at 11:01 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    Some musicians say to eat bananas before the concert. Weird, I know.

  50. 50 Mitchell said at 11:07 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    That or tequila would work pretty well.

  51. 51 Bert's Bells said at 4:08 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Potassium “settles nerves”. It’s good for drawing intricate stuff too.

  52. 52 CrackSammich said at 11:34 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    Placebo effect. A Banana doesn’t really have enough potassium in it to do much. I know this, because I recently had to get an IV transmission of Potassium and it hurt like a mofo.

  53. 53 CrackSammich said at 11:34 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    Beta blockers. That’s what most musicians use for anxiety.

  54. 54 daveH said at 11:06 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    I read this and feel that that we are in a dangerous no mans land of mediocrity thats been going on since 1960.. a few wins and a few playoff losses snd a super bowl loss and people love the coach for all time … this spin yuck.. deep purple, what from the 70s, damn, im dark. Feels like its over and we dont even know it.
    we sold our soul for rock n roll.. JCS Movie Soundtrack… ive bot each like 5 times.

  55. 55 ChoTime said at 11:10 AM on December 15th, 2016:

    I don’t think they should go OL. Here’s why:

    With Lane back and expected internal improvement, this is at least a decent unit. But WR and CB are true league-dregs liabilities. Like in weightlifting, you get gains more easily by working on the lower-level areas. It will take more resources and luck to take OL from decent to good than take WR from cover-your-eyes awful to decent.

    One above-average WR could result in an extra win. The guys who are in there right now can’t catch!

  56. 56 unhinged said at 12:09 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    If you believe that a “decent” unit can win at POA when the clock is ticking and the first-down is 4 yards away, your argument has some sense to it. What happens when the decent unit is down with injury? That has to be part of the calculation, and our OL, with a HOF left tackle is barely average. If Seumalo and Big V turn out to be starters, great, but there is precious little depth, and the OL needs to be spoiled with talent and potential. One above-average WR will get opponent’s attention and be neutralized a lot. It WILL help the short-yardage 3rd down run game, so it is important, but the LOS is where you put your money first.

  57. 57 laeagle said at 5:11 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Take one or two starters out of Dallas’s o-line. Their performance would suffer dramatically. This is true for every team.

    As others indicated above, part of building a championship o-line is being lucky that the line you’ve built stays healthy throughout the course of the year.

    Depth is important, of course, and I believe that decent (not great, but decent) depth helped prevent the dropoff from being truly terrible this year (we saw it last year and the year before). Having Wiz, Seumalo, and Big V helped a lot once bodies started to fall. We can add more depth, and better depth, of course, but it’s incorrect to say that there is “precious little depth”. The depth we’ve had has kept Wentz alive. If we had depth like last year, he’d be a dead man now. You can’t say that our depth has sucked when we’re 3 levels down into the depth chart at positions. That’s back to the old, silly argument of “why aren’t all of our backups Pro Bowlers?” Our line got hit HARD by the injury bug and it’s not terrible team planning that led us there.

    O line is important to the team not because our depth was so horrible this year, or our starters are so utterly atrocious. Yes, starters and depth could use upgrades. Same is true for most teams in the league (including the Pats and Seahawks, 2 championship contenders).O line is important because we’re getting old up front, and because specifically Jason Peters will need to be replaced, and that has repercussions along the rest of the line.

    O line is simply not a position in as dire need of an upgrade as our CBs or WRs. We have decent OL starters when healthy. When healthy, our CB and WR starters have a long way to go in order to get remotely close to decent.

  58. 58 unhinged said at 5:35 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I appreciate your comment, but I think our RUN game is deficient. We got into the habit under AR of using short passes to get short yardage, because our emphasis was predominantly on pass protection, and we have not had a particularly strong, go-to running game in over a decade. I am not indicting our OL, per se, but to me you protect and support your QB best when the DL is getting driven off the LOS on run plays. Maybe my beef is w/our scheme or priorities, but I think Wentz is getting decent pass protection most of the time, and if that is what you and Cho mean by “decent” I agree. I just want to see more dynamic, power blocking, particularly from the interior line. I like Brooks and Seumalo, though I wonder about how strong they could be with a center stronger than Kelce.
    Agholor was a touted late first-round pick. Matthews was pretty high pick. HR is going to become the latest version of Matt Mullen if he keeps picking WR’s early until he gets one that sticks. CB is a different story. It is not the crap shoot that WR is, and I agree we sorely need a shut-down corner. But I still say that a better pass-rush will mitigate the softness of our secondary, and unless we get a generational player to land in our lap, building from LOS still makes more sense to me. On the offense, Mathews and every other WR currently on our roster would likely have considerably better numbers if our running game had more teeth. Any QB throwing 50 passes a game is working with a deficient running game, and/or a pathetic defense. I don’t believe our defense is pathetic.

  59. 59 John Galt said at 6:57 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Our run game is deficient? Maybe, although every one of our 4 backs is averaging at least 4.1YPC. That with a decimated offensive line.
    The bigger issue with the run game is the lack of carries – which has two causes: 1. Dug likes to call a lot of passes and 2. More importantly – we keep getting behind early in games. Fix those two things and I believe our run game is passable.

  60. 60 unhinged said at 7:27 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Not to be smart alecky, but if our run game was dynamic we’d keep the other guys on the sidelines longer and get behind less regularly. We are not terrible at running as a change-up, but when it becomes a contest of wills, our OL is usually overmatched. Part of it is coaching, part is strategy, but we have not exhibited a resolve to run when the defense is waiting on it.

  61. 61 laeagle said at 7:41 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Our run game was working quite well before the line started to fall apart and before Mathews was injured. It was actually a strength of the team.

  62. 62 ChoTime said at 12:15 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    Yes, but injuries can occur anywhere. Going from a bad CB to a guy off the street, or a bad WR to a total zero, is also a disaster.

  63. 63 Cafone said at 1:47 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Good point.

  64. 64 daveH said at 6:38 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Well said.

  65. 65 Ark87 said at 2:50 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I think we are still a few drafts behind on the O-line in the long-term picture. I agree we can put together a decent 5 starters, and if they gel and stay healthy they can actually be one of the better units in the NFL (it’s gotten to the point that if you just have the guys you started the season with, you have one of the best O-lines in the league by attrition, so there is a ton of luck involved). But the depth and long-term answers are both trouble, so I would still want 2 guys from the mid rounds.

    I agree with you though. We know Howie works draft boards in tiers, and if there is a OL, CB, and WR left in the “blue chip” tier, I agree we should probably pass on OL there. But I wouldn’t be sad with a blue chip OL if he’s the last guy of his tier, we could definitely use him.

  66. 66 P_P_K said at 3:45 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I agree, though I’d go with CB. One above average CB could result in an extra win, or two. The guys who are in there now can’t cover the guys who can catch.

  67. 67 Insomniac said at 4:49 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Everyone keeps talking about how we should go OL but then doesn’t have a plan or solution.

  68. 68 D3FB said at 5:40 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Ok here’s the plan.

    FA: Bring in Brian Winters or Jonathan Cooper on prove it deals.

    Draft: Issac Assiata in the 4th, Andreas Knappe in the 6th.

    Depth Chart
    T: Peters, Lane, Vaitai, Barbre, Knappe
    C/G: Kelce, Seumalo, Brooks, Asiata, FA, Gordon, Neary

  69. 69 Nailed It! said at 5:51 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Two Isaac’s one one team… I don’t think that is allowed.

  70. 70 Nailed It! said at 5:52 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Especially on one line together.

  71. 71 D3FB said at 5:54 PM on December 15th, 2016:


  72. 72 Mitchell said at 6:42 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I won’t be silenced until it happens on both sides of the line!

  73. 73 ChoTime said at 12:11 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    Just saw Moana yesterday:

  74. 74 unhinged said at 6:40 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Who is Neary?

  75. 75 D3FB said at 6:53 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    PS C/G. Got him from Denver after cutdowns.

  76. 76 Insomniac said at 9:36 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Is Robinson that good or is he being pushed up due to the weak OT draft?

    I like Cooper’s potential but I think it’s time to give up on him becoming something. No clue on how Winters did in the big league but I’ll take your word for it.

  77. 77 D3FB said at 9:30 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    My Dante Fowler scouting report included “Somebody should start calling Bamas freshman LT ‘Uber’ because he continually took Fowler for a ride”.

    He’s inconsistent but just turned 21 and started for 3 years in the SEC. There’s some background red flags too. If he was perfect there would be no way he falls to us. I think he’s better than La’el Collins and could be a very special LG or RT by year two and could move to LT later on if need be.

    Cooper/Winter: They are buy low guys for a reason. They’ve both got alot of experience and have better upside than a guy like Wiz.

  78. 78 BobSmith77 said at 1:04 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Let’s draft a WR in the 1st round again especially one from the PAC-10! (immediately ducks)

  79. 79 Mitchell said at 2:19 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    John Ross bb!!!

  80. 80 BobSmith77 said at 1:11 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Even Spadaro packed in the season last week and was pretty dejected too after the game and how things have gone.

    Made me kind of depressed too because he is always upbeat. Even he readily acknowledged that it was about focusing on next season at this point and this team had a lot of issues to address.

    Does make me wonder if this is a team that only does need some moderate retooling to make the playoffs (as Spadaro asserted because they have lost a bunch of close games) or this is a team that is a bottom 5-6 talent team that really is going to require 2 solid offseasons to rebuild into a 10/11-win team.

    Kind of think the later although a great offseason could get them back to 10 wins next year & into the playoffs.

  81. 81 Eagles_Fan_in_San_Fran said at 3:11 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Combine odd season + many question marks going into next year equals:
    Who the #$% knows?

  82. 82 anon said at 4:18 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Team needs to rebuild – what are we tweaking? A team that hasn’t won a playoff game since 2008?

  83. 83 laeagle said at 4:54 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    That’s an incredibly poor metric. We’ve been building some core talent over the years, as do most teams who eventually become good. The last time we won a playoff game is utterly irrelevant to what our talent pool is like this year.

    “Rebuild” means tear everything down and start again. “Retool” means tinker around with parts. We’re actually not doing either. We’re in the process of actually doing the building that happens over a long period. Not since 2008, because again, that year has nothing to do with now; it’s an arbitrary date that isn’t linked at all to our actual development cycle.

    By your logic, the Cubs should have been tearing everything down nearly every year for the past 100 years because they weren’t making the playoffs.

    Again, this isn’t a team that’s lost a lot of talent and needs to start over. This isn’t a team that’s one or two pieces away from championship contention. This is a team about mid-way through a 5-6 year build that exists because over the years, we, like most teams, have acquired talented players. The “build” is there because the team has recently identified who the core players are upon whom we’ll build the rest of the team.

    Not having enough talent at exactly this moment does not mean that nothing is being done about it or that we should all just throw our hands up in the air and tell the team that they suck at everything and anything, just because we’re mad.

  84. 84 A_T_G said at 5:47 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I agree with all of this, but using the Cubs as the rationale for embracing a patient process makes me want to cry.

  85. 85 Corry said at 4:45 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I wonder how different our season would have gone and how different our outlook would be if our offensive line had remained intact all season long. Wentz’s play and our season went downhill quickly once Johnson was suspended.

  86. 86 daveH said at 6:37 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Pats are deep into injuries and playing Eagles scrubs .. how they doin? We have the talent. Often have, its just never the coaching … surr fat andy was remotely close once ..CLAP.

  87. 87 anon said at 6:52 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    To be fair their division just rolls over every year

  88. 88 GENETiC-FREAK said at 3:25 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Sproles still out concussion protocol. If not ready to go do you guys think Ags back at PR?

  89. 89 Corry said at 4:38 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I’m guessing it’ll be Kenjon Barner.

  90. 90 Sean Stott said at 7:48 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Hope so. Would like to get him some kind of spark. He was an outstanding PR at USC

  91. 91 Dragon_Eagle said at 4:31 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    All season, I’ve been all in on going OL heavy next year. Wentz certainly looks like our franchise. Priority is to protect him first (and part of that is a bunch of maulers in the run game), weaponize him second. CB, DL are desired but need to get in line behind OL.

  92. 92 Insomniac said at 4:48 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    How? OL isn’t going to be good this draft. FAs are only solid this year and will come at a premium price if they even hit FA. Trade? No one is going to give up a good young OL for what we’re going to offer. The likeliest scenario is that we’re just going to bring in more mid-round guys like Seumalo and develop them.

  93. 93 Dave said at 5:41 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Why do you say OL isn’t going to be good in this draft? It may not have a surefire top 5 pick, or may not be the deepest compared to other positions. But there still will be talent available in each round, just like any other draft.

  94. 94 unhinged said at 5:44 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    If our FO puts its attention toward finding a future starter on our OL, I would think it possible. Mid-round does not automatically mean project. There may be no cupboard to raid, but there will be some good bets out there, I would expect. They won’t be there in first 2 rounds, but JP was a UDFA, and the once-great Jason Kelce was round 6(?).

  95. 95 Insomniac said at 9:46 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Not really, there are always weak classes at certain positions and I’m not dismissing the fact that there are no gems in weak classes. It’s just much harder to find one.

    For example, the 2011 draft OG class. That was awful.

  96. 96 Flyineagle45 said at 5:13 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I can’t believe we didn’t get Floyd. First round talent just ripe for the taking at one of our weakest positions and we just twiddle our thumbs.

  97. 97 Nailed It! said at 5:32 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Yes for a guy that will only be under contract for the rest of the year and then we can lose him to free agency, (but hey those three meaningless games were going to be so sweet with him). A guy who has multiple DUI’s, questions about his work ethic and has dropped allot of passes this year. oh boy! The profile sounds exactly what an already struggling wide receiver room needs! Yippeee. He could have killed someone just a few days ago.

  98. 98 Dave said at 5:38 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I wouldn’t call Floyd a first round talent. Yes, he was a first round pick, but so was Ags. JMatt has had a better career through his first 3 years than Floyd, without the arrests.

  99. 99 laeagle said at 7:38 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Floyd was ABSOLUTELY first round talent the year he came out. Mid-first round, which is where he went. He was the #2 WR that year, after Blackmon, I think.

    This has nothing to do with how his NFL career panned out. But at the draft, he was 100% considered first round talent. He had the production, the pedigree, and the physical attributes. Saying anything else is revisionist history based on his NFL career.

  100. 100 Dave said at 7:53 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    By your definition, Ags was a first round talent too. Was Marcus Smith a first round talent?

  101. 101 RobNE said at 5:41 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    The Patriot Way.

  102. 102 D3FB said at 5:44 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    A guy who came into the season with a comparable statline to Rueben Randle.

    The panacea to our woes!

  103. 103 Aaron said at 5:48 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    aint he a habitual dui’er, maybe the wrong guy im thinking of though

  104. 104 Sean Stott said at 7:47 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I bet your mind would be changed if you had a relative die in a DUI.

  105. 105 A_T_G said at 6:21 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I wouldn’t say I am happy my kids threw up on the bus, but I don’t have to run to basketball, I miss an elementary band concert to stay home with him, and I didn’t have to clean it up.

  106. 106 daveH said at 6:41 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    JCS Movie Soundtrack Tommy … all time as an album .

  107. 107 unhinged said at 6:50 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Which is it JCS or Tommy?

  108. 108 daveH said at 9:09 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Tommy as in Lawlor.
    Not so mch a Who fan.

  109. 109 unhinged said at 12:07 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    I’m not either, though I thought Tommy was cutting edge for its time. The Who standards got old fast for me, but I did enjoy Join Together and Eminence Front for their long, teasing intros.

  110. 110 daveH said at 9:11 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Saw JCS in Wildwood .. mustve been 73 or 74..

  111. 111 The original AG said at 8:43 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I think the best thing to give to Wentz is a real head coach.

  112. 112 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 8:52 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Kind of early to kick out Doug. I’ve never liked him and I hate the slow Chip offense he runs even more; but I’m not sure if throwing Wentz into a new system in his second year is best.

  113. 113 The original AG said at 8:58 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I don’t think we can get rid of him after one year either. The price would be too steep on so many levels. They have to keep him one more year to save face. But if they fire him after one year, this may not be a destination coaches want to come to.

    They’ve backed themselves into this corner and now we have to wait it out. They’ll get him better players, and he’ll look smarter because good players can cover over bad coaching. But when it matters against another team with the same talent and a better coach, we will lose to some dumb decision he makes.

  114. 114 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 9:01 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Well he has(had) no experience. Hopefully the team does a lot of self scouting this off season and he gives up play calling.

  115. 115 The original AG said at 9:04 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    If he went out and got Norv Turner to be the OC, we’d be on the way to healing the strained relationship. I think this is the first thing he needs to do (that is give up play calling duties, because I know Norv isn’t coming here).

  116. 116 Greg said at 9:01 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I don’t think Peterson’s been that bad. Sure there have been some rookie coach mistakes But I don’t think he is out there looking completely clueless. I think if Lane Johnson was playing and Ags lived up to half of what a first round pick should be, this team could easily be in the playoff picture. Id also like to give him credit for getting the team to play hard against the skins after they mailed it in the previous two games. I’d at least like to see what Howie can to this offseason, and see if he can improve with some better players and with Wentz in his second year. If the Eagles are in the same position next year, I’ll be right with you.

  117. 117 Insomniac said at 9:19 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    And who are you going to replace him with? Chip Kelly?

  118. 118 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 9:23 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    He already is a slower version of Chip Kelly.

  119. 119 Greg said at 9:25 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Which is an upgrade from Chip.

  120. 120 Insomniac said at 9:28 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Besides the awful screen game, he has already been better than Chip Kelly at moving the ball and keeping his own defense off the field.

  121. 121 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 9:28 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    He’s mastered the 6 minute FG drive

  122. 122 Insomniac said at 9:32 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Baby steps man. I’ll take that over 3 and outs in 2 minutes or being bailed out by unsustainable scoring from the ST..

  123. 123 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 9:37 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    True. Its not as bad as Chip(3 and outs are longer) but its still very frustrating to watch. Offense looks down right tragic at times and we might lead the league in 3rd and longs

  124. 124 Greg said at 9:51 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    A lot of that has been execution and undisciplined football. How many good plays have been negated by drops and penalties? Team discipline does fall on the coach though. That needs to be an emphasis going forward.

  125. 125 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 9:53 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Coach cant make guys catch but the penalties have to stop. The 2nd and 10 draw isnt fooling anyone

  126. 126 Fufina said at 10:08 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    There are some plays that do make me scratch my head, but some of the issue is that you need to at least attempt some of these types of plays to keep the defence honest. Wentz is really bad at throwing wide receiver screens (all screens generally to a lesser extent) – he is too slow getting the ball out and does not place it where they can immediately make YAK (the 2nd is often linked to the 1st). But we need to keep calling those plays because 1) they keep open up other plays, 2) are a core play of the West Coast system and 3) Wentz needs to improve in this area if he is going to succeed longer term.

  127. 127 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 10:19 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I think he a bad fit for a lot of the West Coast concepts. He will get better in time but i dont think this offense plays to his abilities

  128. 128 Fufina said at 10:21 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    To be fair to both the coaches, front office and Wentz the plan was for him to sit and develop some of this stuff. West Coast schemes like this are not rookie friendly generally. Think Wentz has shown me plenty so far that he will get there in the end – when we traded Badford we knew we would have some bumps this year.

  129. 129 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 10:26 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Yeah. I was really fine with sitting Wentz after we drafted him but I also didnt mind starting him after Bradford was traded.

    You can easily see he the talent and and where he might need a little work.

  130. 130 Greg said at 9:31 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Keeping the D off the field is huge. Time of possession is not something to dwell on but it can’t be ignored at the NFL level. Chip igores it and will never win anything until he is booted back to college.

  131. 131 Insomniac said at 9:36 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    It was refreshing to actually see a good defense for the first 3 games.

  132. 132 Greg said at 9:48 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Agreed. In my mind Swartz and the D is a little more of a questionmark than Pederson and the O. I know they need better corners just like they need wr, but I don’t understand why he wasn’t able to use Kendricks more as a blitzer. Also the front 4 pass rush has been shut down recently. They need to be more creative getting to the qb. However I’m fine seeing this all play out for at least another year.

  133. 133 Insomniac said at 9:54 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    A disappointing seasons for most of our DL though. Bennie Logan isn’t much of a pass rusher. Graham played well early but couldn’t continue playing at that level. Barwin is a good 3-4 OLB and not a very good 4-3 DE. Vinny Curry who?

    The DL should play better with better CBs. As for Kendricks, I just think that Schwartz has no clue what to do with him. Kendricks seems to be regressing at a very high rate, which is a shame really.

  134. 134 The original AG said at 9:38 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I never said that. But if he isnt the guy, why waste more time than you need to with him? If our only goal is “better than Chip” than we aren’t doing it right. Chip is gone, but being marginally better isn’t the standard I want.

  135. 135 Insomniac said at 9:39 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    You can’t fire a guy without his replacement ready. I agree with killing an era quickly if it isn’t going to work out but who’s going to be the new coach?

  136. 136 The original AG said at 9:55 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    I don’t know, but setting their sites on someone right away got us both Kelly and Pederson. Go through a real interview process without having your mind made up. Frankly, outside of Kelly they keep going after WCO guys. I don’t see how that offense is lighting up the league sans Rogers. But he makes any offense look good.

  137. 137 Tumtum said at 10:31 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Pretty sure that like half the NFL teams are using some variation of the WCO.

    How are you sure Doug isn’t the guy btw?

  138. 138 The original AG said at 5:18 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    I understand most use a variation of the WCO, but it isn’t the main thing they do. Just like all defenses use a variation of the 46 in theirs (to steal a quote from Jim Schwartz).

    I’ll use the last game as an example since people are happy to take participation awards when it comes to Doug and how his team plays. I’ll just give examples from the last game.

    1 – 2nd half a stupid challenge cost him a timeout that they could have used on the last drive. He only made the challenge because the crowd gave him grief for not going for one in the 1st half. Instead, he tries to make up for it and loses the timeout. This isn’t the first time this has happened where he made a decision based on crowd reaction.

    2 – Brandon Brooks goes out for the game on Sunday morning. So you have a new starting RG, and a backup of a backup at RT. What does he do? He keeps running roll-outs to that side with a rookie QB and Kerrigan on that side. That tells me that’s the only thing they practiced and instead of changing the play and/or modifying the game plan – they went ahead with it anyway, more than twice.

    3 – With a patchwork line, and even with the game not out of reach, he still passes way too much. He still abandons the run way too early, putting more pressure on a rookie QB and tattered OL.

    4 – Last drive of the game, with a new backup at RT, he gave no help on the whole drive. So yeah, Tobin played well against Kerrigan 1-on-1 for a few plays, but the one that mattered he was beat badly – with no help. Asked about it Doug says, “Well he did well the whole drive up to that point.” Not really thinking about the fact that Kerrigan is a very good player and he’s flirting with danger. This happened in the previous game with Vaitai.

    5 – Last drive of the game, where he had no TOs (directly related to his bad challenge), the play before Wentz was sacked, there were no receiving options to either a) the endzone or b) the sideline. So if Wentz completes the pass, the clock goes from (roughly) 26 seconds to 12 seconds with no TOs when you need a TD. That makes no sense schematically.

    6 – The fact that the team played with energy is a question in his first season as head coach. So they played harder than they did against the Bengals. So what. They were still very sloppy, undisciplined, and frankly still outcoached.

    To me this is trending the wrong way. I don’t care about wins and losses since 1) this is his first year and 2) he has a rookie QB. I do care about how they look and play,

  139. 139 Tumtum said at 3:11 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    I can tell you actually put thought into this, and it all has logic for sure. The problem is that (even if I don’t completely believe it) I can go through and counter point every point you made quite well.

    Truth is only a couple hold real weight. I don’t blame you for questioning if he is the right guy. I think it would be completely foolish to jump off now unless you were certain he wasn’t. Sorry, one more bad year is worth trying to avoid 5 more bad years, I’m not sorry.

  140. 140 D3FB said at 9:37 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    Name names please

  141. 141 The original AG said at 9:45 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    I don’t know. I don’t buy into the premise that because no one else is there you still stick with a bad coach. A bad coach is a bad coach so do your homework and figure it out (not you specifically but Roseman and Lurie).

    Doug is not ready and by time he starts to figure it out, we’ve lost 4-5 years. And even then there’s no guarantee that he will. Right now we fire him at the end of next season and in that time they should have a better idea of what’s out there.

    Right now I look at him as a placeholder.

  142. 142 D3FB said at 2:14 AM on December 17th, 2016:

    You’re out of your mind. This isn’t Jim Tomsula.

    He’s more than competent.

    “He’s had some bad challenges and had half a dozen bad play calls out of 900, so fuck him he’s worthless and shitty fuck him fire him” is childish.

    And demanding a unicorn head coach is too.

  143. 143 The original AG said at 10:51 AM on December 17th, 2016:

    We just disagree. I do not think he’s more than competent. And it’s a hella lot more than a half dozen bad play calls out of 900.

    More than competent coaches don’t challenge a 2-yard spot on 2nd and 8. Especially when it does nothing to improve the situation of the team.

    This isn’t about a few bad play calls, but a lack of feel for the entire game. I’m taking the long view here. Those bad play calls (which keep happening) are the difference between teams that win it all and teams that perennially lose in the playoffs (see Andy Reid).

  144. 144 A_T_G said at 10:54 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    That would be the wrong move for so many reasons.
    1. Doug shows promise, albeit not polish yet.
    2. He was tasked with rebuilding the culture and the talent. Bailing after a year undermines both…
    3. …which means no one worth having would come here,
    to name a few.

    Do you think the Cowboys regret keeping the overwhelmed Garrett around when he floundered his first two years?

  145. 145 The original AG said at 5:05 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    1. I haven’t seen any promise, just dumb mistakes from being overwhelmed.
    2. I never said to bail after a year, because the search for the next coach would be harder.
    3. See number two.

    I can’t worry about what the Cowboys do or don’t do. Garrett is in the best position to be successful this year with a ton of talent. If they don’t win, what’s the excuse then? They better win because they have homefield advantage in the playoffs.

  146. 146 A_T_G said at 7:18 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    This article is about what the team will do in the offseason. If “give to Wentz is a real head coach” doesn’t mean giving up, withdrawing support, removing power from, firing, bailing – whatever term you want to use – on Doug, then I don’t understand your comment.

    If you think we are going to let Doug continue while simultaneously conducting some long, under the radar selection process from the top names – who all have agents – to be a surprise at some later point, then I disagree about the feasibility.

    If you think we should openly be interviewing candidates while Doug continues for another year, well, then I don’t even know what to say.

  147. 147 A_T_G said at 7:21 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    Wait, trade Wentz? Is that it? I am really trying to understand how we get Wentz a “real” head coach without getting rid of Doug.

  148. 148 The original AG said at 9:19 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    Unfortunately we can’t get rid of Doug. My comment was more highlighting what I perceive to be the worst impediment to his progress. I would love to get rid of Doug at the end of the year, but the hit to the franchise would be too great to fix unless they got a stellar head coach. I don’t see that happening because I don’t think lurie knows what to look for.

    The only way pederson can be salvaged next year is if he gives up play calling duties, but he has no one to turn the reigns over to.

    My comment was born more out of frustration because at the very least Wentz has to wait another year. Worse, Roseman hits on a couple more picks and Doug stays around because he has a better record – then we become Andy Reid’s team 2.0 where we are good enough to make the playoffs but not win it all.

    Maybe we get lucky like McCarthy or Switzer.

  149. 149 A_T_G said at 4:48 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    Wow, you are in a much darker place than I am about this season. I guess time will tell.

  150. 150 The original AG said at 5:28 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    It’s why I’m not commenting much. I don’t want to become LongDing and piss everyone on the board off. I haven’t been this down on a coach since we hired Eddie Jordan.

  151. 151 laeagle said at 11:37 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    This gets tired after a while.

  152. 152 The original AG said at 5:06 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    Watching Doug coach gets tiring. Trying to understand what has he done that makes you think he can be a good coach without waiting 5-6 years for him to get there? Nothing he has done this season suggests he’s anywhere close to being a good coach.

  153. 153 Aaron said at 9:17 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    what a horrible call

  154. 154 Insomniac said at 9:48 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Nick Chubb is staying in college. Might be a mistake if he doesn’t regain his form.

  155. 155 Fufina said at 10:09 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Is tough for RB’s they have short careers so you want to get 1st pick money if you have the talent for it (Chubb might) but at the same time why take an extra beating on your body for free when you have a limited career.

  156. 156 A_T_G said at 10:18 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    The life-changing impact of the first 20 million is so much greater than the second 20 that no one should risk missing out due to an injury.

  157. 157 Insomniac said at 10:45 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    His medical must be very bad if he’s staying. At least he could get an education just in case that he doesn’t even make it.

  158. 158 D3FB said at 9:24 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    UDFA signing bonus would more than cover a year at a public university.

    So would one week on a roster.

  159. 159 Gary Barnes said at 10:07 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    The “magic formula” is forging a clearly defined team identity based on the current roster’s strengths and what the Eagles organization wants to be known for.

    The Eagles currently have no identity. Seattle, New England and Denver do and when they developed that identity they started to win consistently. It is not coincidence or an accident. It focuses the team on what types of players need to be drafted, signed, developed and retained. It clarifies what schemes should be used to maximize performance. It provides information on the traits your coaches need to have.

    Our city and fans love and respect great defense and physical, aggressive play that dictates to the opponent relentlessly. I would love to see the Eagles build their identity around defense.

  160. 160 Fufina said at 10:19 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Not sure what the Patriots identity is – outside of “Do All Evil”. They change every year, sometimes its elite secondary, then elite front 7 the next year. They change scheme like chameleons game to game almost. I guess their identity is having the greatest coach and QB of all time but thats hardly copyable. And 100’s of scrappy white slot receivers… they always have those.

    Denver in 2013 had the best offence in the NFL and 2 years had the most dominant defence.

    Eagles hoped to make a team based around their defence and a special front 4 and excellent spine of ILB and Safeties. Teams worked out you could exploit the outside CB’s with short passing, cool off the pass rush and then when the CB’s start cheating down hit the Eagles for big plays. Offensively we don’t have an identity… but then we dont have many good offensive skill players currently (Wentz is a rookie QB so not actually good yet).

  161. 161 Insomniac said at 10:43 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Tom Brady and Belichick is pretty much their identity.

  162. 162 laeagle said at 11:35 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Exactly. All this talk of identity gets overblown. “Play good football” is enough of an identity for me.

  163. 163 A_T_G said at 10:35 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    When the teams developed an identity they started to win, but before that the GMs gathered talent capable of winning. That is why the identity is desirable.

    The Team in Washington developed an identity – where overpriced FAs coasted, as did Cleveland – where QBs were transformed into punchlines, as did Jacksonville – the sloppiest premium picks going.

    The identity you are talking about is a result of coaches and GMs realizing a winning vision, not the cause.

  164. 164 Tumtum said at 10:25 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Graham isn’t going to catch a ball tonight…and I am in a must win =

  165. 165 Ryan Rambo said at 10:53 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Aaron Donald

  166. 166 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 10:54 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    Is who i thought Cox was going to play like this year

  167. 167 Iggles Blitz » Blog Archive » More on the OL and the Offseason said at 11:47 PM on December 15th, 2016:

    […] the previous post about the Eagles possibly focusing on the OL in the offseason, there were some interesting […]