Talking Wentz

Posted: December 19th, 2016 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 233 Comments »

Carson Wentz has started all 14 games of his rookie season. The results have been mixed, for him and the team. Because the Eagles started 3-0 and Wentz posted such good numbers in that stretch, some people now want to say that he’s been exposed and the Eagles shouldn’t have traded for him. Others say Wentz has regressed and isn’t as good now.

I disagree with both of those ideas.

No one is trying to pretend Wentz is perfect or great or anything like that. The numbers for him and the team are not impressive right now. Wentz has some issues that he must work through. He has a handful of plays every game that remind you he’s a rookie QB. There is a lot of work to be done between now and next August for him to take a big step forward.

You need context to understand Wentz now, then and into the future. The Eagles started 3-0 because the whole team played at a high level. The defense allowed a total of 27 points in those games. The defense allowed 27 points on Sunday. There wasn’t pressure on Wentz to win games early on. The Eagles would have him throw a lot for a series or two, but mostly ran a balanced offense.

The O-line had the same 5 starters in all of those games and the line played well. Things have drastically changed up front. There have been 2 starters at LG and RG. There have been 4 different starters at RT, with a pair of them being rookies. Matt Tobin played significant snaps in one game at LT and in another game at RT. Continuity is crucial up front and the Eagles have had virtually none of it since Lane Johnson began serving his suspension.

Think about the first 3 games. Skill players made some big plays for Wentz. Jordan Matthews had the impressive TD catch in the opener. Nelson Agholor had the long TD vs Joe Haden that got us all excited. Darren Sproles had a 73-yard catch and run in the Steelers game. Dropped passes weren’t a huge problem back then. Now think about the last 6 or so weeks. How many times have skill players done anything special? Matthews couldn’t get a toe down last week and that cost Wentz a TD. Zach Ertz failed to cross the face of the defender, creating an INT. There have been drops all over the place. Agholor had to be benched for his issues. There have been injuries to Matthews and DGB, as well as all of the RBs. A point guard can make the best passes in the world, but he only gets an assist if the other players make their shots. Whether you are a PG or a QB, you need help from those around you. Wentz is getting minimal support right now.

Wentz had more of a complementary role early on. He still ran the show, but all of the players and units around him played a big part in his success. Right now Wentz is being asked to carry the offense. And he’s not getting much help from the defense. Not many rookies can handle that role.

Jameis Winston went 6-10 as a rookie. He threw 535 passes. Wentz is already at 540 with 2 games to go. Winston finished with a rating of 84.2.

Marcus Mariota went 3-9 as a rookie. He threw 370 passes and finished with a rating of 91.5. The Titans were 28th in scoring and 30th in yards.

Blake Bortles went 3-10 as a rookie. He threw 475 passes and finished with a rating of 69.5.

Derek Carr went 3-13. He threw 599 passes and finished with a rating of 76.6.

Johnny Manziel had all kinds of issues, on and off the field. He’s out of the league now.

EJ Manuel went 4-6 as a starter and lost his job in the offseason. He’s now just a role player.

Teddy Bridgewater went 6-6 as a starter. He threw 402 passes and finished with a rating of 85.2.

Carson Wentz is posting numbers that fall into line with that group. He’s playing like most rookies do, up and down.

There is no question that Wentz is making more mistakes now than he did early on. That’s because the circumstances have changed so much. Wentz threw 60 passes against Cincy a few weeks back. The Eagles were down 29-0 and had banged up RBs. Of course you are going to throw the ball a lot and ask the rookie QB to carry the offense. What else can you do?

Defenses also have a lot of tape on him and the Eagles offense and that helps them to defend Wentz. The Eagles have tape on the defenses, but since Wentz is a rookie that doesn’t have the same value. He’s still got a lot to learn about his own offense, let alone what opponents do. Wentz is smart enough to see some things on tape, but he’s not at a point where he can process that information during a play and use it the way a veteran QB would. QB is the toughest position in all of sports.

The passing offense was ugly on Sunday. Wentz was 22-42-170. That’s bad. But let’s remember that he was going against the #4 defense in the league, was on the road and had to deal with wind. Eagles WRs really struggled on Sunday. In Week 14 of his rookie year, Donovan McNabb was 7-17-49 in a loss to Dallas, who had a Top 10 defense that year.

The key to me in all of this is that Wentz has stayed mentally and emotionally strong. That’s huge for a QB.

Think about being a rookie QB. You were likely a college star and are used to winning. Suddenly you are losing games and making all kinds of mistakes. That can be overwhelming. This part of the game has gotten the best of plenty of QBs over the years. Wentz says all the right things publicly. He must be saying the right things behind closed doors as well. You don’t hear or see any issues between him and his teammates. Wentz accepts blame when things go wrong and he gives credit to others when they go right.

Watch him on the field and you don’t see a scared player. He could possibly set the NFL record for passes thrown by a rookie. Wentz doesn’t panic when he drops back. He isn’t looking to dump the ball off to the first open guy. He’s not running half a second after his back foot plants in the ground. Wentz is trying to do the right thing, sitting in the pocket and going through his progressions.

Wentz has been able to fight through slow starts in some games. He put his team in position to win the last 2 weeks despite ups and downs before that. Think about young and veteran QBs over the years who got pulled during an off day. Wentz doesn’t let his mistakes overwhelm him. He moves on to the next play. You can argue that’s a double-edge sword, as he sometimes repeats mistakes more than you’d like.

Think about the mistakes he does make. He holds the ball too long at times, reluctant to give up on a play. He sits in the pocket, even with pressure in his face, and will have some passes go awry because he can’t step into the throw. There are times when he’s too aggressive with his throws. These are all bad things and they need to be addressed.

But they are good problems to have. Would you rather him be Nick Foles, who retreated more than the worst army in history? Would you rather Wentz wait until players were wide open to throw the ball to them? Would you rather he throw the ball away at the first sign of trouble? Wentz wants to make plays. It is easier to rein that in than to take someone who is nervous/reluctant and get them to be more aggressive.

Wentz has all the physical tools you could want in a QB. He needs to work on his mechanics. He needs time in the offseason to study game tape at length so he can learn from his mistakes (reads/decisions). He needs more time in the Eagles playbook. He missed a lot of Training Camp and the preseason last summer.

Wentz also needs help. He needs a stable OL. He needs a WR who can make a play for him. He could use a skill player that can deliver more than one 40-yard gain a season.

It would be great if we could see Wentz getting better in obvious ways. That’s not the case. The circumstances have ruined any chance of that. I don’t think we should lose sight of what a strange season this has been for him. He went from #3 to starter in the most unexpected way. Wentz threw 612 passes in his college career. He’s thrown 540 so far this year and will likely end up with more than 612 on the season. He’s taking in all kinds of experiences right now and they will benefit him greatly in the future. We all thought Wentz could be effective this year in the right situation. That plan went to hell in a handbasket and Wentz is now trying to carry the team on his back.

If anything, I’m more impressed by Wentz now more than ever. You can fix his mechanics and work on his issues. We’ve seen a player that has taken everything that has been thrown at him and has handled it like a champ. No media meltdowns. No playing the blame game. No off-field issues. He goes out every Sunday and throws 40 or so passes, loses in the last minute and then goes right back to work. And don’t overlook that. It is easy to study tape at 5am when you’re winning. It takes a real professional to do that when the tape is going to be ugly.

Next year we need to see tangible results. That’s when we’ll find out if Wentz can take all the lessons from this year and use them to make him a good QB.


233 Comments on “Talking Wentz”

  1. 1 Dave said at 9:05 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    Stop me if you heard this before, Ags played 98% of the snaps and had 4 targets with 1 catch for 9 yards.

  2. 2 Mac said at 9:31 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    Not so subtle attempt to throw the game?

  3. 3 A Roy said at 12:30 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    He might as well throw something. He certainly cannot catch.

  4. 4 SteveH said at 10:27 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    and 1 failed 4th down end around.

  5. 5 daveH said at 10:56 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    And “1 or 2 drops” i had read .. why leave his best quality out

  6. 6 BobSmith77 said at 10:59 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    My favorite was the poorly thrown bubble WR screen to Agholor where he got the yips and dropped a poorly thrown ball behind him.

    Pederson ran two more bubble WR screens yesterday including that one to Agholor. Wentz struggles on those throws and Agholor/DGB/Matthews isn’t going to accelerate quickly or make the first guy miss. Almost makes me wonder if Pederson has masochistic tendencies.

    If they have run a WR screen that has gained even 10 yards this year, I don’t remember it.

  7. 7 Corry said at 11:19 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    I thought the first one he threw to Matthews was good. It lead Matthews up the field and let him catch it in stride. However, like you said, Matthews isn’t exactly the best choice for that kind of thing, so even with a good throw, I think it still only got 3 or 4 yards.

  8. 8 truehaynes said at 12:17 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Huff and dgb each had one that went for a first. Not sure if it was ten yards but certainly close

  9. 9 Dave said at 3:26 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    They ran several actually…when Huff was still here.

  10. 10 Sb2bowl said at 1:29 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Not sure why Treggs didn’t get more snaps; I haven’t watched the All-22 but at this rate, can the coaches be happy with him?

    If Ags is getting this many more reps, are they assessing for next season? Why not get Treggs more snaps?


  11. 11 anon said at 1:51 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    treggs not that good, dgb injured. ags probably looks great in practice.

  12. 12 Sb2bowl said at 4:35 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Agreed that he’s not “that good” but is he so bad that he gets literally 2 snaps? Why not see what’s there in a game day situation?

  13. 13 unhinged said at 9:22 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    That’s a great context in which to view the rookie, but 2 wins out of the past 11 games leaves the door more than halfway open on Doug Pederson’s fitness for the HC position. One thing you’ve got to hand Jeff Lurie, hiring an unheralded, largely unseasoned OC to be your new HC, concurrent with the shotgun intro of a very raw QB into the NFL…it’s ballsy. I think the record is not solely an index on the lack of talent. This has been discussed here before, but the repeated mental mistakes, the fundamental errors, dropped balls, missed tackles, missed blocks, mindless penalties – they are of a piece. It is the picture of a team not in sync, not all members focused. It’s a picture that Doug Pederson must see, because Jeff Lurie definitely can see it. Maybe it is as simple as competent players trying to do too much to compensate for their incompetent teammates. If so, DP is responsible. In retrospect, perhaps hiring an old hand, and having DP as his assistant for a season or two may have been the way to go. This has got to be a question for Jeff Lurie.

  14. 14 bubqr said at 9:40 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    I’m not saying Wentz is bad/has regressed, but I don’t see how people can be that confident that he’s a franchise QB yet. He has not had a Russell Wilson/A.Luck (or RGIII for that matters) rookie season, one where you could fairly confidently say that he’s going to be really good. How can we be so sure that he’s not going to be a Andy Dalton, Ryan Tannehill, Blake Bortles or dare I say…Sam Bradford type of QB ?

    You can point out all the leadership qualities we want, but for the record I think a Andy Dalton type of outcome is one of the worst outcome possible: not good enough to win a SB but not bad enough to bottom out and get a top of the draft QB prospect. And so far I dont feel confident saying Wentz is going to be better. If anything, stats-wise it looks like a reasonable outcome for him based on the current season.

  15. 15 anon said at 9:51 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    he’s the opposite of sam braford

  16. 16 bubqr said at 10:36 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    He’s mobile, tough, a vocal leader, yes, and I genuinely like the dude, but at the end of the day it’s all about the value he provides on the field, regardless of style. I didn’t bring it up in my post but a good comparison would also be Kevin Kolb – as he shown that he’s going to be better?

  17. 17 anon said at 10:46 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    id’ say opposite in that sam is very accurate but has poor pocket presence and is not aggressive. carson not accurate but has the other skills in spades.

  18. 18 wee2424 said at 11:53 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Yes, Kolb looked really scared out there at times.

    I think he has already had more impressive games then Kolb did in the entirety of his career.

  19. 19 ChoTime said at 11:44 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    Andy Dalton’s rookie stats are significantly better than Wentz’s.

  20. 20 bubqr said at 12:11 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    He had a solid to very good OL + Green, and a solid defense IIRC.

  21. 21 Sb2bowl said at 1:32 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Wilson sucked his rookie season; was garbage. Luck wasn’t much better, but was asked to do far more. At this point, Wentz looks more like Luck as a rookie than anyone else. I can live with that…………

    Tommy points out that Wentz is being asked to carry a team. He wasn’t during the first few weeks of the season. This assessment is correct. Look at the final TD; no one was open, so he used his athletic abilities and score himself.

    That to me was the icing on the cake- he got his TD to bring us back. We didn’t get the 2 point conversion, but that first monkey is off of his back.

    I’m cautiously optimistic about Wentz. In Philly, generally we don’t get the option to have nice things. Right now, across multiple sports franchises, things are looking up.

  22. 22 anon said at 1:51 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Does he look like luck? That team went 1-15 the year before and had no run game. Luck threw 630 times, 54% completion%, 4300 yds, 23td to 18 pics

    Carson is at 540 passes 3,300 yds 63% completion, 13 Tds to 13 picks (that’s after starting with a near record number of passes before an interception)

  23. 23 Fufina said at 3:02 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Luck was more impressive – but that 1-15 team was weird. Lost a couple of close games early and the entire team just checked out, not just the players but by midseason they were starting undrafted rookies and leaving good players on the bench as they ‘evaluated’ talent. It was a 6ers level tank job pretty much from the byweek. Add in Luck was the best QB prospect i have seen coming in, and had in my opinion the best rookie year i have ever seen (not record or stats wise just eye test), making using Luck as the yard stick is a little harsh.

    Carson is going to end up with ~615 attempts, 3,800 yards and ~14-16 ints. The lower TD number has as much to do with how effective our run game has been in the redzone and how bad our redzone passing game has been than a real comment on the relative productivity. Those are special and rare rookie numbers, especially in the context of OL issues and

  24. 24 wee2424 said at 11:58 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Luck had Reggie Wayne amongst other weapons. Think of the TD’s and big plays that should have been made if it weren’t for a drop or dumb penalty.

    You just take half of those back and Wentz’s numbers would be A LOT different.

  25. 25 Ankerstjernen said at 5:46 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    He has a much better arm than Dalton. Better mobility too. Better tools.

  26. 26 wee2424 said at 12:14 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    Lol, I almost typed “but he isn’t ginger.” Fortunately the blood started to flow to my head again before I typed the sentence.

  27. 27 nopain23 said at 10:07 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    It seems like every year all I seem to read is “maybe next year”. Just sounds like we’re trying to convince ourselves that our beloved franchise is dysfunction all. We don’t do anything particularly well. Nothing to hang our hat on. Paid a bunch of players none of whom is really producing.
    It would be comforting to see Carson at least take better care of the football these next few games .
    And can someone tell me how in the hell does Dallas defense look this good with no pash rushing stud?..we have guys like Cox ,Bennie and curry but their Dline looks much better than our own

  28. 28 ChoTime said at 11:43 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    Like 31 other teams, it’s always next year. Pro sports is about Hope. Nowhere is this epitomized more than in the draft.

  29. 29 Fufina said at 1:03 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    There Dline is not better than ours…. at all. Their secondary has played really well this year, and combined with a ball control offence that not just chews up clock but puts huge scoring pressure on opposition teams things start to get difficult. Eagles (even though we threw away the game) and the Giants show how you beat the cowboys, take away the run game (not easy i know) and make them throw, taking away their ability to control the clock and reduce the score pressure and suddenly the defence starts to look iffy.

    But unfortunately the cowboys have only played 3 good defences all year Vikings/Ravens/Giants, and 2 defences that are sporadically good (Eagles/Bucs)

  30. 30 wee2424 said at 12:19 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    I think they are just feeding off of their O, that has a bit to do with it. Players like Byron Jones getting better, Lee being healthy. Irving starting to be like what we though Curry would be.

    They are a team playing as a team and all coming together at the right moment.

  31. 31 Bert's Bells said at 10:23 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    Wentz’ ability to start the whole season and take nearly every snap already put him above every Eagles QB in the past 10 years.

  32. 32 Corry said at 10:31 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    “The best ability is availability.”

    (That quote is one of the best things to come out of the Chip Kelly Era [other than some of the players])

  33. 33 wee2424 said at 12:26 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    “Big people beat up little people.”

    Something along the lines of “We are Philly, we fight”. That was one in funny when I think back on it.

  34. 34 BobSmith77 said at 11:01 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    Been sacked 31 times and the only game I thought he took a real beating recently was the ‘Skins game. Got sacked 4 times and took a number of shots was well.

  35. 35 CrackSammich said at 9:12 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Now why would you go and say something like this.

  36. 36 anon said at 10:32 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    let’s see how it goes with lane johnson back. if cowboys win sb, does that make taking zeke early worth it? if zeke is mvp and does nothing else in his career does that justify the pick?

  37. 37 Blackfoot said at 12:36 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    good question, If it was us, it would.

  38. 38 Sb2bowl said at 1:35 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Perfect situation for Zeke to land in; the fact that Romo and their backup QB got hurt in the preseason leading to Dak is where Providence really plays a part. They both landed in a perfect spot.

    Dallas’ defense is playing above average; Marinelli is a hell of a Coordinator, they did well in retaining him. We will see if they hold up in the playoffs.

  39. 39 BobSmith77 said at 10:54 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    Sitting in the pocket/trying to make a play doesn’t bother me. That is part of being a rookie.

    I’m hoping some of his INTs too are the result of his raw decision-making because he simply has made too many poor decisions to throw into tight double coverage as the season wore on.

    I said yesterday and to me the biggest concern is accuracy and touch especially on short passes in the flat. He really struggles with throwing an accurate swing pass to a RB or a WR screen and the balls sails on him way too much on throws intermediate routes.

  40. 40 ChoTime said at 11:42 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    INTs are about information processing. Can he glance at the field and diagnose what’s going to happen in 1 second and make the correct decision? IQ doesn’t help you there. It’s split-second, instinctual stuff. Steve Nash or Magic Johnson throwing a pass before the guy even comes open, alley-oop, boom! The greats all have it.

    The accuracy and mechanical problems are also a big concern, but I think a separate one.

  41. 41 Crus57 said at 11:55 AM on December 19th, 2016:

    By that definition, INTs are also a product of experience, since that is what you need to be able to judge a defense at a glance. Experience of the game, and of the opponent, and the speed of the players at this level.

  42. 42 ChoTime said at 1:15 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Yes, that should theoretically help. Also, his big-time IQ should help him learn a lot of formations and looks that will eventually pay off dividends. But I think (and just my own crackpot observation) that there is some sort of unchangeable ability, or at least one that rarely gets changed, that corresponds to the quick-on-his feet instinctive thing.

  43. 43 Dave said at 12:51 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    INTs are also about risk. McNabb was risk-averse when it came to throwing into tight windows or covered receivers, and his low interception % is a reflection of that.

    Favre and Eli were/are the exact opposite. They had no problem expecting their receiver to make a play on the ball. They also had a higher interception %.

    It’s not that Eli and Favre couldn’t process the information, they just were willing to take more risks.

  44. 44 ChoTime said at 1:14 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Agreed. I think McNabb was a little lacking in the quick-diagnosis and also had some accuracy issues.

  45. 45 BobSmith77 said at 4:06 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    By the mid-point in McNabb’s career but not early on.

  46. 46 bill said at 3:08 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Agree, but just quibble about the binary nature of your description of the issue. It seems that some people are better able to process specific types of information (for example, gretzky was said to see hockey as patterns, not individual skaters), but there is also some ability to improve on the biological side with practice. But given this is the NFL, if you’re not starting as top .1% in this skill to start with, you probably can’t develop it enough through practice to make a practical difference. The greats have both the advanced starting point and the work ethic to keep wringing out incremental improvements.

  47. 47 ChoTime said at 6:41 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I would agree. From my perspective as a professional musician, lots of directed practice has allowed me to hear, understand, and do things far beyond what I’d ever thought I could. Certain mysterious things happen once you reach certain levels of your craft. Progress is not necessarily linear or even limited. And a lot of that is “chunking,” being able to see and deal with patterns instead of the chaos of individuals. In projecting, we do want to see those early signs, the indicators that there’s a reasonable chance the top levels are attainable.

    As for Wentz, who knows? Certainly he’s flashed, but I don’t know enough about QB play to say whether he’s flashed in the right ways.

  48. 48 Fufina said at 12:15 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I am not really worried about his Int’s that much. A lot of them fall into 2 types both of which should improve with time.

    1) mechanical – Wentz when he misses throws tend to miss them high – which often leads to picks for a safety, but a lot of that is mechanical and should improve with time.

    2) confusion with his receiver. Take the Ertz pick – looked awful live but the reality was Ertz and Wentz were just not on the same page, did different things and it resulted in a pick. Give it 2 years and these plays will no where near as common.

    The fact that he doesnt seem to misread the defence too often as a rookie and is only throwing a few picks because the DC/ or DB’s tricked him is a really positive thing long term.

  49. 49 anon said at 12:46 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    His picks look mostly mechanical to me — if we looked at tape form yeterday’s game how many times his he throwing off his back foot? Maybe that comes b/c he’s used to having to take contact before the throw.

    Do you notice that we aren’t throwing downfield at all anymore – why do you think that is? I think accuracy issues have something to do with it. He’s young and smart so hopefully just an issue for the offseason, but he’s got a lot of work to do to ingrain that throwing motion.

  50. 50 Michael Folk said at 12:06 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I think hes done a good job considering the circumstances. I think it was the first giants game that affirmed that for me anyway. He justs needs to work on his accuracy in the offseason – the mental side is pretty good for a rookie – hes outplayed quite a few qbs this year imo already (Bortles, Osweiller, etc), Like you said, he needs more stability (reliable receivers or weapons, the Oline has done a decent job considering the circumstances). I think our #1 priority should be CB in the offseason with 1 WR pickup. Carrol is the only decent starting outside cb and that’s not very good. If we can get two CBs who can push Mills to #4 I think that would be most valuable.

    Look at the good D’s in the leaque – Carolina fell off because their secondary, Giants and Dallas have surprised because their secondary, Rams – still pretty good but def not as good because their back 7 isn’t as good this year, Packers were getting torched, ARZ has had a good d the past couple years – good secondary. Denver obviously. Houston, Baltimore (is more team defense but cbs are pretty decent, obviously our WRs couldn’t beat them very much).

    Play madden – its so hard to stop people like ODB and A. Brown if the cb’s suck and really changes how you can call the defense. Against a team like the Giants or with multiple good wr’s its really just a crapshoot trying to call plays to stop them (of course, play calling like that can have its benefits as well and then having a really good offense to go along with that is another strategy you can take for team building….)

  51. 51 A Roy said at 12:26 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    You lost any credibility you had gained with the words “play Madden.”

  52. 52 daveH said at 2:08 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Was Ags on the Madden cover last year, is that what happened? ?

  53. 53 meteorologist said at 4:09 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    The game was designed to teach players the game. I learned a lot about coverages and route combinations and reading the blocks of the offensive line from that game. Is what hes saying that far fetched?

  54. 54 Michael Folk said at 9:16 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Lol I suppose that was unnecessary, just trying to make a point about Schwartz and the D.

  55. 55 wee2424 said at 12:50 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    Mills would go to nickel where he belongs.

    Btw.. your going to get roasted for the Madden comment.

  56. 56 Gary Barnes said at 12:24 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Fully agree, Tommy. The Eagles’ problems derive mostly from poor roster construction & talent evaluation/development coupled with a fuzzy vision of how a sustainable winning Eagles team is defined. What are our core competencies as a team? What do the Eagles want them to be? What do they need to be to win consistently in the current NFL? What is their plan to get there?

    Wentz’s future depends on how well Roseman, Douglas, Pederson, position coaches et al. identify and fix those short comings and how effectively they can sustain them.

    I see clear plans for the 76ers, Flyers and Phillies. They are all in various stages of rebuilding and, like all franchises will have ups and downs along the way, but the fans understand what is going on and why and they are seeing results start to show. Hextall, Klentak and Hinkie (Colangelo is less clear) all had/have well defined ideas of what it takes to succeed and a long term vision for getting their teams to that level.

    I do not see any clear plan with the Eagles. This off-season they took steps to both rebuild and win now. It was confusing and counter productive IMO. Define a clear plan, share what you can with the fans so they can get on-board with the process and let’s go.

  57. 57 anon said at 12:42 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    1st year of new coach – i think they want to be a big play offense, like andy’s teams, just need to get our tyreek hill, which they will in the offseason.

  58. 58 ChoTime said at 1:11 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    WTF? You mean big-play offense with Carson Wentz who mostly dinks and dunks, mixing in interceptions liberally with a few brilliant plays once in a while?

  59. 59 anon said at 1:13 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I’m just telling you the vision man. Think Carson dinks and dunks b/c of accuracy issues with downfield passing. But this team def wants a deep threat.

  60. 60 Tumtum said at 1:50 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Pretty sure he is trolling…at least I really would hope so. You are trolling right Cho?

  61. 61 Insomniac said at 2:48 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    He’s probably not. People need to accept the fact that Wentz himself is limiting the offense with his inconsistency to throw accurately 30+ yards down the field.

  62. 62 Tumtum said at 5:03 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    So that would mean that both of you consider Wentz to be at his best in week 15 of his rookie year with no skill position players?

  63. 63 Tumtum said at 1:48 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Little harsh don’t you think? In an alternate universe let us pretend that Chip never allowed all of the play makers to leave town. Heck, lets say that Lane Johnson never took a needle to the butt. Where is this team then?

    Sure some draft choices haven’t worked out, but the cold hard reality in the NFL is that MOST draft choices don’t work out. Howie deserves a lot of credit for leveraging his resources to giving himself the most possible chances at making contact.

    I think this organization has a clear vision of what they want, and I think they are well on their way. I am excited for what the future holds.

  64. 64 Gary Barnes said at 3:03 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    No, I do not think it is too harsh. It is time for honesty, reality and accountability. The Eagles need to improve a lot in many areas and need to be completely honest with themselves on what it is going to take to achieve those improvements.

    There are NFL organizations that win every year and there are NFL organizations that win more years than not. They consistently go to the playoffs. They win rings. They have obviously done things and are continuing to do things the Eagles have/are not.

    None of the Eagles management has any track record for excellence or achievement that excludes them from being questioned or given the benefit of the doubt for years on end. They need to deliver.

  65. 65 Tumtum said at 5:00 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    How many front office/coaching combos are Superbowl contenders from year one? How many struggle as they find themselves for 1 even 2 seasons?

    You forget. This IS new management and coaching. I don’t think the most optimistic of us expected Superbowl contention this year. If you were reasonable those toned down expectations would be reigned in even more when we went with a rookie QB.

    You are suggesting that the front office and coaching staff do things that every professional sports program already does. So what you want is perfectly reasonable, but already done. We can be the Browns and turn the damn thing over every year or we can respect the process and at least give them a fair shot. I would personally prefer not to be the Browns.

  66. 66 Gary Barnes said at 7:22 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    As I’ve said on here many times, this is NOT year one for Roseman. He was heavily involved post-2008 in the Reid regime, especially in the Dream Team fiasco. He was heavily involved in hiring Chip and had final say in 2013 and 2014. He was heavily involved in hiring Pederson and again has final say for all football operations. He does not have any track record that puts him beyond reproach – in fact, it could be argued he is lucky to have gotten another chance and question Lurie’s judgement.

    As I’ve said before, give him 2-3 years more, but after that if we are not a winning team that can go deep into the playoffs, he needs to be fired and we need to find someone better. Simple as that. I think that is totally fair for a team that has not won a playoff game since 2008 and not been to the playoffs since 2013. It is time to deliver.

    We know the teams that are the elite in the NFL, they have a very defined identity and are consistently good at building their teams and keeping them on top. They make the playoffs, win playoff games and rings. We should all want the Eagles to become one of those teams and should not accept anything less IMO.

    No one is saying turn it over every year and be the Browns, stop it. The point is to not accept mediocrity or the constant litany of excuses that somehow do NOT stop the elite organizations. I like Lurie overall since he hires people, lets them do their jobs and does what he can to give them the tools to win. However, his recent decisions have not inspired confidence and trust. We’ll see what happens, but if I were him I would be watching very carefully.

  67. 67 Tumtum said at 8:14 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I took your post as an indicator you would be happy if Lurie wiped the slate clean. Honestly, it sounded to me like you wanted to move on from the core of the team too.

    I completely agree that you don’t give him more than 2-3 years total. In fact if we don’t see marked improvement in all 3 phases, I would be fine to move on after next year.

    I see lots of good in this season to take away. There is a lot to build on. It’s not like this team isn’t playing close games with good teams pretty darn consistently. Sure we got blown out a few times but even Seattle was blown out a couple weeks ago. It doesn’t mean there is no hope.

    I expect we will see an improved team next year, and am excited. If we don’t…move on from Doug ASAP. We need to see Wentz develope. I will be shocked if he isn’t far better next year though.

  68. 68 Tumtum said at 12:26 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Couldn’t agree more.

    Tommy didn’t even mention the back breaking penalties this year that easily wiped out a few TDs and a few hundred yards.

  69. 69 anon said at 12:41 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    The team itself is not good. Ravens are a vet team w/ a vet staff so they win games like these, we aren’t so we don’t.

    What a turnaround for the cowboys though. They had a ton of holes on defense last year – no one thought they were one player away, turns out they were.

    Question there’s going to be lots of monday morning QB’ing on that team if they lose in the first round b/c Dak didn’t put up any stats

  70. 70 ChoTime said at 1:10 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Well, two.

  71. 71 anon said at 1:13 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I’m not giving Dak any credit aside from being able to stay healthy.

  72. 72 ChoTime said at 1:18 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Pretty damn rare for someone to have that kind of success, regardless of circumstances (although, Foles).

  73. 73 anon said at 1:23 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Nah, plenty of guys are good for one season, foles, josh mccown in chicago, vick 2010, bortles 2015

  74. 74 Tumtum said at 1:44 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I also don’t think Dak isn’t special. Certainly have to give him some credit though.

  75. 75 daveH said at 2:04 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I unfortunately think he will be very good w them for a nice stretch. .

  76. 76 ChoTime said at 5:45 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    192 QB-seasons since 2010, those are 4 examples (and Bortles wasn’t good in 2015, ranked 27th in DVOA, and McCown only had half a season).

  77. 77 bill said at 3:00 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I argued all offseason that the Cowboys desperately needed a cheap, average QB to back-up Romo, because otherwise, that offense was dominant. The only thing holding them back was the absolute trash they had at backup QB. That only became more true when they drafted Ezekiel.

    So far, Dak’s a game manager. A good one, which is nice for a rookie, but I’ve seen little of “throwing into NFL windows” or “under constant pressure.” He throws to wide open receivers while standing in completely clean pockets, usually in manageable down and distances.

    That said, this is exactly how you want to develop a rookie QB in the NFL. With this system, he’s got the potential to become a very good NFL QB some day. Russel Wilson and Big Ben both benefitted from managed development that allowed them keep things simple and still succeed while they learned the ropes.

  78. 78 Fufina said at 3:05 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Think Dak has been a bit better than that – he has made some pretty throws and has stood tall in pressure situations. What i doubt is he is going to become a genuine top 5 QB, he just lacks the raw talent to be able to do that…. although i probably would have said the same things about Brady in 2003… and he is now the GOAT.

  79. 79 meteorologist said at 4:06 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Dak has basically been what Wentz was in the first 3 games. And Tommy already explained why we haven’t seen that continue for Wentz

  80. 80 BobSmith77 said at 4:15 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    That’s ridiculous. If anything on here, Wentz gets too much credit/free passes despite some real stinkers including yesterday while Prescott’s results get dismissed because of the OL & team around him.

    What is even more nuts is how many people in Dallas wanted to bench him for really one bad game vs Giants. Reminded me of all of folks in ’01 who wanted to bench Brady when Bledsoe got healthy in December because Brady struggled in a few games vs Browns/Bills.

    Not saying Prescott is Brady or anything like that but Prescott is the better option for them to win not only now but in the playoffs too.

  81. 81 Tumtum said at 1:42 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    This isn’t a popular thought, but I honestly think this is a pretty damn good core. Tommy posted a few weeks back about “Learning to Win”, and pretty much dismissed that as a fallacy. I really couldn’t disagree more. Yesterday’s game feels like proof positive for me. We are the far more talented team, but we are clearly inferior.

    Anyway, I fully expect Dallas to get bounced the first time they don’t get a free pass. Big time frauds in my estimation.

  82. 82 daveH said at 2:03 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Liked seeing a player make it.. even if its hated cowboys. David Irving.. one more guy that everyone missed

  83. 83 SteveH said at 12:26 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Oh, hey, Lane’s back. Just in time for our playoff push…

  84. 84 Mac said at 2:20 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Helps guarantee a win vs the superbowl chumps at the end of the season.

  85. 85 meteorologist said at 3:55 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Gonna be so sweet. (Would be sweeter if it mattered tho)

  86. 86 A_T_G said at 12:51 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    The pass yesterday that I am sure announcers would have raved over if Aaron Rodgers threw it, but went unmentioned because it didn’t fit their dumb rookie narrative was the deep interception to Matthews that was called back.

    Announcers said he was looking to go to Ertz but the defender pulled Ertz down. It was pretty savvy to see that flag thrown and immediately launch the ball to the receiver furthest downfield. No downside, no chance for an offsetting holding call to occur because he is hanging in the pocket too long, no reason to throw the ball near the downed Ertz just to prove his point.

    Now it would have been even more savvy if he had thrown the ball to a receiver that is capable of outworking a CB for the ball, but I don’t know if he has enough of an arm to reach NY.

  87. 87 ChoTime said at 1:10 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Good observation and bonus for perpetuating Eagles victimhood.

  88. 88 Blackfoot said at 2:53 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I agree but that ball was massively underthrown no?
    I got worried that wentz’s arm isn’t that strong

  89. 89 Fufina said at 3:08 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Wentz’s arm strength is not the issue – throwing the deep ball tends to not be a raw power throw since you tend to use so much arch to the pass.

    Wentz seems to under throw deep balls pretty consistently – he needs to get that fixed and recallabrated in his head over the off season, and also the game was really windy… is tough to throw accurately in a stadium with a gusting wind.

  90. 90 Blackfoot said at 4:50 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    true I forgot about the big winds, good point.
    WEntz is the MAN!

  91. 91 CrackSammich said at 8:56 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Not so much overthrown as late, which considering the reaction time to the penalty is expected. It was a free play.

  92. 92 Tumtum said at 1:57 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Have any of you film reviewers taken a close look at Mills this season? What does he look like to those who know what their looking at? Is he gone next year? Is he a future pro-bowler?

    From random Joe-Tumtum, I am intrigued by him. He has shown that he has the physical ability to keep up with some of the most physically talented WR in the league. He has also shown that he can get burned by an old man (who still does burn the likes of Josh Norman from time to time). Sometimes I feel like he is our best outside corner. Other times he looks like the worst.

    I feel bad for him at times like the touchdown yesterday. Sometimes I am enraged he refuses to look for the ball. I can’t EVER remember a rookie outside WR getting so much play. Much less a 7th rounder. I am intrigued.

  93. 93 Dave said at 2:04 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    He could not catch up to a 37 year old Steve Smith on the long TD. That about sums up his season and potential going forward.

  94. 94 anon said at 2:05 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I sort of thought he had safetie help, which was too slow to come.

  95. 95 Dave said at 2:07 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    According to the beats on Twitter after the game, Mills had Smith 1 on 1. Watkins had multiple players running deep routes and was late with help, but he was not responsible for the deep 3rd of the field Mills was playing.

  96. 96 BobSmith77 said at 4:02 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Smith didn’t even put a move on him. Just ran a straight go pattern deep in a straight line and just ran right by him.

    Mills has been getting routinely torched even with constant help from the S over the top the last few weeks.

    Can’t see how they bring him back to play an outside CB spot and he doesn’t have the agility to play a slot CB either.

  97. 97 Sb2bowl said at 4:47 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    In Mills’ defense, he was supposed to be in trail technique on the play, with safety help over the top. Watkins got there too late, and was flat on his angle towards the end zone.

    It wasn’t a great play by Mills, but that was the call by Schwartz on the coverage.

  98. 98 Tumtum said at 5:07 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Is he though? 4.48, kept pace with JJ and AB pretty damn well.

  99. 99 Dave said at 5:54 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    4.61 at the combine on the same track using the the same timing system as all the other players.

    Hand Start- hand finish- timing is the fastest and least accurate, which was used at his pro day.

    He looks slow because he is slow.

  100. 100 Tumtum said at 8:19 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    That makes more sense on his draft spot.

    Most of his chunk plays were not on Mills from my memory, and I could be wrong, but that’s what I remember seeing. Julio had big numbers too but I don’t think most of it was on Mills either.

  101. 101 Dave said at 8:58 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Honestly, I can’t remember either. It seems our CBs take turns giving up big plays. One thing is for certain, at least once a games, one of them gives up a big play, with the exception of the first 3 weeks of the season.

  102. 102 Tumtum said at 11:13 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    In a hypothetical would you want him starting ahould the season restart today? Only options are what we have.

  103. 103 Dave said at 8:32 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    Absolutely. At 22, he still has an upside. Carroll and McKelvin will never be any better than they are right now.

    From this point forward, I’d like to see CJSmith in there opposite of Mills for the final few games. Carroll is a free agent at the end of the season and McKelvin is due $3.45M with a $250K cap hit if cut. Ron Brooks has 8 starts (5 at nickel this season) in 5 years, is injury prone, and due $2.1M next year with a $500K dead cap hit. I would not bring Carroll, McKelvin or Brooks back next season.

  104. 104 D3FB said at 9:00 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    That TD was Watkins not Mills.

  105. 105 Dave said at 10:21 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    Not according to the Rodney McCleod post-game interview.

    ““I was locking dudes down out there until that one play. Was it a call that I wanted to be in? No,” Jalen Mills said. “But regardless, plays have to be made out there in games like this.”

    “We actually don’t run that coverage much, so I think that’s where guys are a little thrown off and played bad technique,” Rodney McLeod added. “We wanted to funnel everything inside knowing they didn’t have any timeouts. Schwartz didn’t want them to get a field goal, knowing they didn’t have any timeouts. It was a tough call. Obviously, if we hold them to three [points] right there, it helps us in the end.”

    According to McLeod, the Eagles were playing a cover-2 defense with the corners maintaining outside leverage. However, Smith sped past Mills and Jaylen Watkins didn’t get over the top in time.”

    Mills letting Steve Smith run right past him is not maintaining outside leverage. Heck, rewatching the play, Mills basically stepped out of Smith’s way with no effort to slow him down or redirect his pattern.

  106. 106 D3FB said at 11:32 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    That actually is how you play Cover 2. You’re not expected to carry the route. Disruption would have been prefereable.

  107. 107 Dave said at 12:18 PM on December 20th, 2016:

    One thing is for certain after just watching the Schwartz presser when he was asked about this exact play, he absolutely loves Mills’ “competitiveness” and blamed Watkins for biting on Flacco’s pump fake. He called that a “rookie mistake” on Watkins then several times praised Mills’ competitiveness. I think sidestepping Smith is the exact opposite of competitiveness and was the actual rookie mistake.

  108. 108 Insomniac said at 3:02 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Depth guy at best. His ceiling is way too low to give a ton of playing time to.

  109. 109 Fufina said at 3:16 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Dunno i have liked some of the stuff he has done the last few weeks, and he covered pretty well the rest of the game excluding the busted play.

    Rookie CB’s suck generally – is a really tough position to play as a rookie and getting burned a lot is going to happen. The more important thing is to watch the good plays and try and see if they are reproducible i.e where they caused by good fundamentals or by winning gambles. I think Mills has a chance, plenty of CB’s in this league succeed with his level of physical tools, and there is no shortage of self belief lol! Now if he had more speed or agility would make things easier since you have more ability to make up for mistakes but considering that we have nothing at CB at the moment i think its worth investing playing time in his development.

    Ideally we find a true no.1 CB this draft who you can trust to go 1v1 vs a receiver most of the game, then you bracket the best receiver with a safety and CB (which is Belicheats favourite approach) – in that role i think Mills could succeed and be starter possibly.

  110. 110 Insomniac said at 6:03 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Not plenty but there are some. Sherman, Norman, and Butler are the only guys that ran in the 4.6s that I know of off the top of my head. If we were talking about 4.5s then yea there are plenty of those guys. Except Mills doesn’t play above his timed speed and it shows on the field too. Could he get better and faster with NFL development? Of course he can but I’m not putting much faith in it.

  111. 111 anon said at 3:18 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Compare him to Eric Rowe and the draft assets used on each

  112. 112 Insomniac said at 3:26 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I would put Rowe above him but not by much. Rowe is faster than Mills but doesn’t have the confidence that Mills has. Given their respective spots when drafted, I would just take Mills.

    To be fair, I didn’t think Rowe would be a good CB. I think both guys would benefit from playing free safety.

  113. 113 Dave said at 3:35 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Serious, do you have inside information on Rowe’s confidence? i never heard that before.

  114. 114 Insomniac said at 3:42 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    It’s like you forgot the off season.

  115. 115 Dave said at 5:44 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Again, I read nothing about his confidence in the off season. Care to share a link.

  116. 116 Insomniac said at 6:16 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    You can read in between the lines and get it. You don’t go from getting torched by Megatron to getting torched by our bum WRs and other bum WRs in preseason. Despite his stiff hips, he didn’t lack physical tools so it was all mental. Now he’s playing decently for the Patriots so if it wasn’t confidence then I don’t know what it is then.

  117. 117 Dave said at 6:40 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I read that completely different. Everything I read, including this, are about his personality, not his confidence.

    Adam Caplan posted on Twitter several months ago that Rowe is reserved and does not have an outgoing personality. Caplan stated Schwartz did not like his laid-back demeanor and wanted someone with a more outgoing personality.

    Mills definitely has swagger, but unfortunately lacks game.

    Schwartz and Chip have one thing in common, they are looking for “their type of players” with little regard for talented players to don’t meet their personality criteria.

  118. 118 Insomniac said at 7:02 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Personality does not make you trail behind 4th string WRs in preseason. Nor does it make you the 4th/5th stringer after you stink up the joint. He was a total mess.

  119. 119 Dave said at 7:31 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    For as much as Doug has shown compassion and willingness to have Ags suceed, Schwartz seemed equally disinterested in Rowe from practice #1.

    Rowe may have been a mess in the preseason, but Carroll, McKelvin, Brooks, and Mills have downright horrible in the actual games that count. Rowe has outperformed each of them in his limited time in New England.

  120. 120 anon said at 7:34 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    That’s just not true. This was the best defense in the league for the the first half of the season. Even now when they aren’t playing well there are definitely worse defenses.

  121. 121 Dave said at 7:44 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I’m not referring to defense, I’m referring to cornerbacks. Our starting cornerbacks are amongst the worst in the league.

  122. 122 anon said at 7:33 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Be different if he was starting for the Pats right now.

  123. 123 D3FB said at 8:59 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    Probably a 3rd/4th CB.

    Next year he’s probably the nickel, long term he’s probably going to get kicked back to S and fill the Jaylen Watkins role.

  124. 124 Tumtum said at 11:20 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    Can he play nickle?

  125. 125 D3FB said at 11:30 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    He did against the skins

  126. 126 daveH said at 2:06 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Wish we had steve smith or anquon bolden on this team .. help Wentz and Ags slso

  127. 127 anon said at 2:06 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    100% need a vet

  128. 128 unhinged said at 2:21 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I agree. Our batting average on drafted WR’s is pretty abysmal since Jaws was our QB. Loved Maclin, but he’s no HOF candidate. Is Alshon Jeffrey a credible target?

  129. 129 scratcherk said at 2:37 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    i wonder if regime change could mean allen robinson could be available for trade? I think we’ll get outbid for Jeffery. Desean makes sense too.

    Not too excited about Doug Baldwin as an option

  130. 130 anon said at 2:39 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    think baldwin benefits from being in a mind meld w/ RW – knows how to get open when scrambling

  131. 131 Mitchell said at 2:51 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Hes a good receiver and I cant see him leaving. On the other hand we have Howard so…..

  132. 132 Blackfoot said at 2:52 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    doug Baldwin is tough man

  133. 133 meteorologist said at 3:56 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Pretty sure Doug Baldwin is not/will not be a free agent.

  134. 134 Sb2bowl said at 4:45 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    It’s going to be Desean. Watch and see

  135. 135 daveH said at 6:10 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I love him… but the other 2 offer far more veteran leadership

  136. 136 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 6:12 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    But they arent options

  137. 137 daveH said at 8:06 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    They were. I was using my freedom of hindsight & time travel what ifs …

  138. 138 anon said at 6:13 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    To be fair Desean has never punched a teammate in the face — steve smith is not a choir boy he’s just a good receiver. Frankly i think Chip wanted to get rid of desean not b/c of production obviously but because of the example that he’d represent for the young guys coming in.

  139. 139 daveH said at 8:05 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Ha, yes quite stoopid of me to think if smith as a role model. Nice call

  140. 140 Sb2bowl said at 10:35 AM on December 21st, 2016:

    Sure, but they are what- 6 or 7 years older than he is now? They may be 1 year rentals; we looked for that with Randles and Givens this off season, it didn’t work out.

  141. 141 scratcherk said at 2:25 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I know BPA but… Dalvin cook in the first if he’s there? Tho this draft is supposedly RB and CB heavy… good thing for us.

  142. 142 Insomniac said at 2:59 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    So what’s wrong with McLeod? Pretty simple, he got paid and now he’s not playing since we’re losing. I know he let Jimmy Graham just walk into the end zone a few weeks ago. Same thing happened with the Bengals too in the Hill run. He pretty much let Kenneth Dixon go free yesterday.

    If I were Doug, I would grill the living shit out of him. If he wants that big contract we gave him then he has to friggin earn it.

  143. 143 anon said at 3:02 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    This is why you have the strength and conditioning coach, make the rest of the unit feel pain when one person takes plays off / doesn’t perform.

  144. 144 Fufina said at 3:23 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Both plays he was off balance – Dixon duked inside, McLeod bit and started moving in that direction – soon as Dixon shifted outside McLeod was toast.

    McLeod is a free safety – those guys 90% of the time make plays at a full run, and generally most of the time he has been excellent in those situations. What does seem to be an issue is that he commits quickly (which is important in saving fractions of a second on other plays that makes the difference between making a play and not) which can leave him off balance.

    Think McLeod has been a great signing – he has made some plays and generally otherwise been very sound. Things have not worked as well since Jenkins was forced to play slot and he has been covering/helping Watkins more – but i have no concerns about him really.

  145. 145 BobSmith77 said at 3:58 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Played great? No way. Supposed to be at least adequate in coverage and he has been a liability too much. Not Watkins bad but still.

    I’d give him a C+/B- this year so far taking into account his contract. He hasn’t been a bust but he certainly hasn’t been a great signing either.

  146. 146 meteorologist said at 4:12 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Dixon ducked inside… After McCleod let him run free for 10 yards instead of being aggressive, which he already admitted…

  147. 147 daveH said at 6:35 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Nice asessment .. he should have had better game awareness .. think Mills also and i think they need better coaching

  148. 148 CrackSammich said at 8:36 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Edit: wrong player. was thinking of McKelvin

  149. 149 Bob Villain said at 3:17 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    eagles are a dog shit franchise who deserve a trash qb like wentz, he will never be as good as prescott in his rookie year, dak will continue to improve while eagles will continue to be what theyve always been…losers

  150. 150 Dave said at 3:29 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I’m so thankful Disqus added the Block User feature.

  151. 151 BobSmith77 said at 3:55 PM on December 19th, 2016:

  152. 152 Blackfoot said at 4:48 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    oh my god are you serious? shoot! man this stinks. bob villain is like nostradumass

  153. 153 Mitchell said at 4:59 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    The comment I saw from you was one too many. CY@ bb

  154. 154 laeagle said at 5:16 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    More like “Bob Shit”

  155. 155 anon said at 3:23 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Jaguars GM Dave Caldwell admits the team is “interested” in ex-Giants coach Tom Coughlin as it begins its coaching search.

  156. 156 meteorologist said at 4:03 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I may be reading into things but after one fade pass in the right front of the end zone, you could see on the sideline DGB and Wentz chatting. DBG looked like he was insisting on something (desired ball placement?) Wentz assertively responded, explaining something using his arms. Then both walked away. (The situation did not look resolved). A coach or assistant or something came up to Carson and said something and Wentz just shook his head in a sad/frustrated way.

    DGB is probably just too stupid. Does this mean we can’t ever use him effectively? ¯_(ツ)_/¯

  157. 157 anon said at 4:13 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    What makes you think DGB was wrong in that situation?

  158. 158 Insomniac said at 4:23 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Good question. Wentz’s ball placement isn’t good.

  159. 159 BobSmith77 said at 8:33 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    No it has not been as the season has dragged on

  160. 160 myartz04 said at 5:02 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Because the ball hit him in the hands.

  161. 161 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 5:04 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    It also hit the DB in the hands. Not trying to clear DGB because he doesn’t deserve it but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that Carson put the ball in the wrong place.

    I still think DGB should have caught it.

  162. 162 myartz04 said at 5:06 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Without question, Dez Bryant catches that ball and then everyone would say what a beautiful back shoulder pass it was.

  163. 163 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 5:09 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    That pass wasn’t on the back shoulder though. it was a jump ball

    Does DGB need to catch that? Yes. Should he have bullied the DB? Yes.

  164. 164 anon said at 5:11 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    You don’t get Dez bryant for dennis kelly. Not sure why dez bryant is relevant in this conversation.

  165. 165 myartz04 said at 5:19 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    The point is that the throw was ‘good enough’, everyone just thinks he should be perfect in every throw. The throw was fine, dgb is garbage and should have made a play.

  166. 166 anon said at 5:24 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Dez Bryant is not an average wide receiver, is my point. DGB is an average guy, he’s good at some stuff but he’s not dez bryant so i can’t understand why you’d expect hi to come here and play like that.

    You should be annoyed at Pederson, & co for only giving him one play that they’ve run 80 times this season already.

  167. 167 myartz04 said at 5:35 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Terrence Williams (who is very average)made a play a few games ago twice as hard as DGB’s…It has nothing to do with average or not…It’s a ball a pro receiver has to catch more often than not which sums up the sad state of affairs that are our current receivers.

  168. 168 Insomniac said at 5:48 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    DGB is pretty much a rookie in terms of his development curve. He played 2 years in college and sat out his last year. Not really much of an excuse considering how his hands were supposed to be a major strength of his.

  169. 169 anon said at 5:50 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    DB was all over the poorly thrown ball.

  170. 170 Insomniac said at 5:55 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Didn’t watch so I wouldn’t know.

  171. 171 A_T_G said at 6:38 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I completed that throw in Madden yesterday, is that relevant?

    It was Bobby Herbert throwing to Louis Lipps, so no superstar either.

    Actually, it wasn’t yesterday, it was in college. But it feels like yesterday.

    And it was Madden ’92.

    And it wasn’t a throw, it was a fullback dive, the only play that offense could manage. But boy, that defense.

    What were we talking about again?

  172. 172 ChoTime said at 6:43 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Isn’t the TE always open? been a while…

  173. 173 BobSmith77 said at 8:31 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Herbert to Louis Lipps? Didn’t even realize Lipps played for the Saints in a whopping 2 games in ’92.

    Those early 90s Saints’ teams were super fun in Madden because LB/S were the best defensive players & Saints LBs were studs. Swilling ran all over the damn field and could run right just about any T.

  174. 174 Tumtum said at 5:11 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Maybe both have good points. If Carson hits you in the hands, he has every right to expect you to catch it. DBG can also not be happy that he consistently has to contort to catch a ball.

    ODB and Julio Jones frequently look like pretzels the way they catch passes. Wonder if they would have the same complaints as DGB?

  175. 175 anon said at 5:12 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    If DGB was ODB/Julio he’d still be on the titans, need to level set those expectations

  176. 176 laeagle said at 5:15 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Jerry Rice would have totally caught that ball.

  177. 177 Insomniac said at 5:48 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    but would his cousin catch it?

  178. 178 myartz04 said at 5:52 PM on December 19th, 2016:


  179. 179 Corry said at 8:29 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Yes, but out of bounds.

  180. 180 daveH said at 6:29 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    You said hands , as in both of them. . Eli threw one wide to ODB and no excuses. Just needed 1 hand to grab it. Two legs to juggle his balance. . And 1 other hand to make sure it crossed the end zone.
    Jealous of ‘routine’ 1 handed catches !#!!

  181. 181 myartz04 said at 8:53 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I’m just jealous of routine catches.

  182. 182 Tumtum said at 5:08 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Didn’t see it, but from the explanation it seems to be a little deep into the rabbit hole.

  183. 183 daveH said at 8:09 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Your last line inspires me to pitch MTv for a new show where young pro football players give kids advice on important issues in their lives

  184. 184 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 5:07 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I really hate playing Ags so much. I get that they want him to flip the switch but its coming at the detriment of the team. Turner cant dress and Treggs gets 2 snaps.

    Ags and treggs ran the same pitch play. Treggs saw that the play was about to blown up and cut it upfield to get the first down. Ags didnt and stepped out of bounds.

  185. 185 Insomniac said at 6:59 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I’m not getting a very good feeling about this years WR draft. It’s not great but it’s not bad either.

    I like Mike Williams but there are so many factors going against him right now. His name is Mike Williams and there hasn’t been a very good Mike Williams in the NFL yet. Oh and his injury history. Yikes.

    I realllllly want to hop onto the Corey Davis wagon but I’ll wait until the Senior Bowl. Davis is some hybrid between Marvin Jones and Jordan Matthews. Intriguing skill set but I’m not sure if he could be a #1 WR without another WR to take the pressure off of him.

    Dede Westbrook is a dumbass but he has the skills that would make any GM take a chance on him. Playmaker. He’s not as fast as John Ross but he’ll torch many guys if he has a clean release. Oh and his hands, he has good hands that allows him to high point balls and make difficult catches. He’s too thin for my liking but an extra 10 pounds would make him around 185lbs. People might say that’s too light but Antonio Brown is around that weight. Remember Johnny Knox? That’s who I would compare him to.

    John Ross. A lot of people are comparing him to Desean. I don’t think he’s as fast as Desean despite what the combine might say. Desean was 1a/1b to Chris Johnson in terms of game speed. Ross is a tier below those guys, think Phillip Dorsett/Will Fuller speed. Ross doesn’t attack the ball like Westbrook does but he catches and tracks the ball reliably. I don’t think he’s as shifty as guys like Dorsett/Desean. Then again I haven’t seen him move laterally much. I struggle to really find a comparison for him beside Will Fuller.

  186. 186 Dave said at 7:21 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I know next to nothing about the potential WRs in this year’s draft, but if there is one thing I have learned over the past 2 seasons is that I want a player with good hands and ball skills. From Megatron to Julio Jones at the top, to guys like Antonio Brown and Jarvis Landry taken late, they all have exceptional hands and ball skills.

    Ags, JMatt, and DGB defintely don’t have those skills.

  187. 187 Insomniac said at 7:39 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Jarvis Landry was a 2nd rounder.

  188. 188 anon said at 8:03 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    I was pounding the table for him, but chip didn’t listen. At this point i’d be fine taking anyone from LSU basically.

  189. 189 anon said at 8:18 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    And why’d i like Landry? Lowest drop rate of the real receivers coming out that year. Plus playing with ODB for 3 years you knew he wasn’t a scrub.

    But chip wanted a dude with an Econ Major.

  190. 190 Insomniac said at 10:54 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Chip didn’t think he was good enough.

  191. 191 Mitchell said at 1:13 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    I really love the creepy moan at 9 secs LOL.

  192. 192 Insomniac said at 7:01 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    I did the same.

  193. 193 Dave said at 8:51 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    How about a guy like Jalen Mills?

  194. 194 Dave said at 8:14 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Yup, 21 picks after JMatt.

  195. 195 Mitchell said at 8:48 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    For whatever its worth: When I watched OBJ in college I thought to myself,” wow this guy is seriously special, there is no way he last till the 2nd round.” After watching Ross I have similar feelings, I’m not saying he will be as good as OBJ but he has a certain quality when you watch him play.

  196. 196 Anders said at 2:34 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    Corey Davis has much better body control and hands than Matthews, therefor making him a much better WR.

    The top of this class is not as good as 2014 or 2015, but the depth is really really good. Right now I take Cook or one of the CBs in the first over any of the WRs tho.

  197. 197 Insomniac said at 6:59 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    Marvin Jones and Jordan Matthews hybrid. I guess you missed that.

  198. 198 Anders said at 8:26 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    Not sure I see what part of Davis game resembles Matthews, because the 2 things stopping Matthews from been a great WR are 2 of the things Davis can do

  199. 199 D3FB said at 8:53 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    Lack of go up and get it. I think JMatt would have looked similar if he had played in a MAC Air Raid

  200. 200 Anders said at 9:00 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    I just think Davis overall body control and hands are better than Matthews, which is my biggest problem with Matthews as an NFL player.

    I like Davis better than I liked Matthews coming out, but right now I wouldnt use our 1st round pick on him

  201. 201 D3FB said at 9:09 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    I agree that he’s a better version of JMatt, and that he probably shouldn’t go first round.

    My biggest problem with him is Crabtree, Dez, and Blackmon played in similar offenses against better competition. All three you watched and went holy shit, god himself couldn’t stop them right now. You never really get that feeling watching Davis.

  202. 202 Insomniac said at 1:32 PM on December 21st, 2016:

    He drops some easy catches. I don’t think his catch radius is all that good for his size. His hands and body control are way better than Matthews hence why I included Marvin Jones.

  203. 203 Insomniac said at 7:38 PM on December 19th, 2016:


  204. 204 anon said at 8:03 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Speaks more to our o-line. 5% of people wanted Demarco back, 40% of people wanted shady back.

  205. 205 BobSmith77 said at 8:04 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    McCoy has even been banged up this year too. The Eagles are 0-6 in games decided by 7 points or less and I absolutely believe that having either McCoy/Murray would have made a difference in at least 2 of those games.

  206. 206 anon said at 8:13 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Bills have an o-line. You haven’t heard anything about McCoy missing philly since he’s been up there. Even though their team still sucks

  207. 207 BobSmith77 said at 8:18 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    When the Eagles have wanted to run the ball this year and committed to it, they generally have had success even with the patch work line.

    They have gotten good/very good running block from their guards this year with Barbre, Brooks, and Wisniewski.

    Tackles haven’t been bad either all things considered what has happened at RT this year.

    This despite this pedestrian offense where teams including both safeties often play close to the line because of speed & deep threats outside or the willingness to even try much the last several weeks.

  208. 208 anon said at 8:19 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    ryan mathews is no scrub, sproles either. But they’re both combined probably under 1000yds

  209. 209 BobSmith77 said at 8:22 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Mathews will be a backup RB somewhere next year and Sproles is a gimmick change of pace RB.

    OL seems to get maligned but they haven’t played that badly this year. Run blocking has been better than the pass blocking though.

    If this OL had played as badly as it did last year, this team might have 3 wins right now.

  210. 210 Dave said at 8:55 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    981 combined rushing yards. The team has 1,581 rushing yards on the season.

  211. 211 BobSmith77 said at 8:08 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Grier was derided as a fool on here for the March trade he made to get Alonso & Maxwell along with the 13th pick for the 8th pick in the draft.

    Turns out Alonso has been an uber stud again this year playing all 3 downs including as their LB in Dime. Likely is headed to the Pro Bowl. Maxwell hasn’t played quite that well but has been very solid since Sept.

    Funny how that trade has turned out so far. It turns out the Eagles paid a really high price to move up 5 slots in the draft & then move that pick in the Wentz deal.

    Still would be fine with trading Maxwell because I’m dubious he would fit in Schwartz’s scheme including as a press corner but man Alonso would have really nice at MLB this year with Hicks and Bradham flanking him.

  212. 212 CrackSammich said at 8:31 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    McCoy hurts.

    Regardless of what Demarco’s stats were, he had to go. That dude didn’t want to be here and needed a change of scenery. Those would not have been his stats here.

  213. 213 anon said at 8:50 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Could have been if he wasn’t forced to run sideline to sideline every play. But i think also the city had soured on him.

  214. 214 CrackSammich said at 10:18 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Plenty of players have off years when they’re played out of scheme. Most of those players aren’t so notably hated by the fans *and* make it clear that they’d rather not be there.

  215. 215 anon said at 9:10 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Kurt Coleman the redskins killer.

  216. 216 CrackSammich said at 9:10 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    As the one and only member of the Kurt Coleman fan club outside of his family, WOOOOO!!!!

  217. 217 scratcherk said at 9:30 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    say what you will about cam, but there’s 100% chance thats a penalty if it was Rodgers/Brady/Brees

  218. 218 GENETiC-FREAK said at 9:32 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Man that was like those The Longest Yard movie penalties lol

  219. 219 Aaron said at 9:45 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    it was a good no call, he was starting his slide, but I thought he would get the call, he’s such a whiny whimp

  220. 220 scratcherk said at 9:33 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    would be nice to have a safety play deep vs us sometime…

  221. 221 daveH said at 10:18 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    1 more unimpressive skill by the agholar family

  222. 222 anon said at 11:25 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    i’m sure they’d like to too the way wentz throws deep balls

  223. 223 BobSmith77 said at 9:38 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    You know what stat jumps out to me –

    YAC – Eagles have 1526 yards; Opponents 1461

    Eagles have given up nearly 150 more passing yards overall though (3532 vs 3385)

    Likely due to the Eagles giving up their share of big passing plays yet again this year (20+ yds).

    If the Eagles aren’t among the bottom 5 in the category (number and % of passing attempts over 20+ yards allowed), I’d be surprised.

  224. 224 Dave said at 10:10 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Our defense is tied for 2nd worst with the Browns with 32 passing plays over 25 yards. For comparison, our offense is 3rd worst with only 17.

  225. 225 Aaron said at 9:44 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    i couldnt stand kurt coleman as an eagles, he pretty good now

  226. 226 CrackSammich said at 10:08 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    Same player. Just in a more forgiving scheme.

  227. 227 Aaron said at 9:50 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    the announcer said Shaq thompson plays both ways………………

  228. 228 scratcherk said at 10:40 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    At least we can watch the Redskins implode

  229. 229 daveH said at 11:42 PM on December 19th, 2016:

    The challenge flag arrangement is idiocy defined. They cant get their heads around techmology yet to make correct calls correct and in real time ?? Literally W T F .. so you get to challenge their fucque ups. . Sofa king stupit

  230. 230 CrackSammich said at 2:35 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    Unfortunately, I don’t think you can ever completely automate penalties and the more you try, the more it will end up like the catch rules.

    Even something like ball placement– You can probably verify the exact location of the ball, but it would be damn near impossible to pinpoint exactly when they player was down and where he was holding the ball when that happened.

  231. 231 三五营销 said at 12:19 AM on December 20th, 2016:


  232. 232 bdbd20 said at 7:10 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    Look at New England, Green Bay, Baltimore, NYG, and Pittsburgh.

    That’s where we want to be. Find your stud QB, play him for 10+ years. Find pieces around him.

    Just think about who Eli and Ben were throwing to in their Super Bowl wins.

    Once you have that guy, you’re always in it. He doesn’t have to be a superstar. We’re light years ahead of last year.

  233. 233 A_T_G said at 7:28 AM on December 20th, 2016:

    I was struck this morning by how similar the season arcs have been for our team and the QB that did not fit our plan for the season.