Fixing the Eagles
Posted: January 22nd, 2017 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 199 Comments »All in all, the Eagles had a good offseason in 2016. They added a franchise QB in Carson Wentz. They found some young pieces for the OL. They added a talented rookie RB. They signed a good FS in Rodney McLeod. The Eagles added some young players like DGB, Kamu Grugier-Hill, Destiny Vaeao, Byron Marshall, Joe Walker, Bryce Treggs, Paul Turner and Aaron Grymes who might turn out to be good role players.
The team still has plenty of holes. No one thinks the Eagles are a finished product. It takes several good offseasons to build a team up. 2016 was a start for the new combination of Howie Roseman, Doug Pederson and Joe Douglas.
There is no magic formula, but you can see a few things. One of the most interesting ideas for me is that key players can be found all over the place. Free agent OG Kelechi Osemele turned out to be a huge signing for the Raiders. Tyreek Hill was a 5th round pick and he had a huge impact for the Chiefs. Atlanta had a couple of young players take a big step forward, WR Taylor Gabriel and LB/DE Vic Beasley. Gabriel they signed after the Browns cut him and Beasely was a high draft pick who disappointed them as a rookie.
Not every key move is an elite FA signing or 1st round pick. Help can be found all over the place.
The Eagles must find help in free agency/trades, street signings (guys being added now), the draft and from player development of guys already on the roster.
*****
Howie Roseman and Joe Banner did a brilliant job in 2011 of signing a lot of big name players. They did a great job with contracts and negotiations. The problem is that football is a team sport and the pieces didn’t fit well together. The other huge problem for that team that always seems to get overlooked is the lockout. There were no mini-camps and offseason stuff. That took away the ability for the players to come together and build some chemistry. They were thrown together at Lehigh and expected to gel. Didn’t work.
Howie still likes to be aggressive with pro personnel moves, but he seems to do a better job now of going after guys the coaches truly want and that will fit in.
- Connor Barwin
- Malcolm Jenkins
- Chris Maragos
- Darren Sproles
- Brandon Brooks
- Rodney McLeod
- The Schwartz Gang (McKelvin, Brooks, Bradham)
- Chase Daniel
Not every move pans out (Isaac Sopoaga, Mark Sanchez, last year’s vet WR trio, etc.), but these usually aren’t big money signings or players with high expectations.
The Eagles aren’t projected to have a lot of money to spend, but there will be some cuts and possible restructurings that will change that somewhat.
I wouldn't worry about cap space with this particular team. They'll wind up having more than you think in March. https://t.co/y8p5phaNjn
— Adam Caplan (@caplannfl) January 22, 2017
Adam knows contracts and money really well so trust him on this.
The goal isn’t for the Eagles to go crazy. They won’t have that kind of money, and they shouldn’t do it if they could. The Eagles want to become a team that focuses on the draft. Still, it would be silly to ignore free agency. Be judicious, but go find more talent. There are going to be some good players available. The Eagles will likely focus on younger players. They want to build around Carson Wentz so that this team can win for years to come.
*****
What should the Eagles do in the draft? Go get Mike Williams or Corey Davis. Or the top CB. Or an elite DL. There is no set answer, just lots of interesting guesses.
As mentioned above, the draft is about more than just the 1st round pick. Daniel Jeremiah thinks the Eagles might be a team that could move down, hoping to add more picks in the middle rounds.
The Eagles made a bold move to move up in the draft last year for their franchise quarterback. They paid a steep price in draft picks, including this year’s first-round choice, but it appears they made the right decision. They were able to get a 2017 first-round pick from the Vikings in return for Sam Bradford and now they need to draft some difference makers to surround Wentz. They need to find 2-3 starting skill players in this draft. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Howie Roseman move down the board and collect more picks to help in this quest.
There is a lot of logic in this thinking. The Eagles could add young talent at CB, WR, OL, DL and RB. They could spend a couple of picks on CB. The same is true for the other spots, except RB. One guy might do the trick there. And if they address that in free agency, then RB could be off the list.
The Eagles could consider moving back in the 1st or 2nd round to add more picks. Obviously the team doesn’t have a definitive draft plan right now, but you can bet this is something they will consider in April as they try to figure out the best way to add talent to the roster.
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trading down obviously depends on who is left on the board when you pick. In general, if you’re a three win team, trade down to fill your many holes, if you’re a twelve win team, might trade up as you may believe your just a player or two away. At 7-9, they have needs but quality is one of them and they have their QB. I think you identify the few players you hope are there when they pick and if so, grab him. If not, trade down. Not having a 2nd or a 4th last year and still getting a lot of rookie contributors speaks to the quality of the process. Douglas and co. should only help that but I could see adding 6-8 draft picks and 2-3 UDFA’s to this team without a lot of trouble.
I believe that Douglas was hired after the draft, so Roseman should get almost full credit/blame for the 2016 draft.
Exactly
And based on performance we can pretty much say with certainty now that his 2016 draft was a grand slam. Wentz alone warrants that rating, but then look at the remaining selections and it was a great draft.
Howie Roseman has always been a master at execution. He might get stuff done better than anyone. Sign Asomugha when nobody thought we could, done. No way the prettiest coach at the ball (Chip Kelly) would come to Philly, done. Any number of trades, amazing. Everything he does tends to be well done, and the things he does make a ton of sense at the time. Generally if your can criticize anything about him, its that the decisions he makes often don’t work out. I like him, but I’d like to see him make some moves I don’t get that actually pan out to indicate he knows more than me. As is, everything he does makes perfect sense to me, and in a weird way that’s concerning because I’m a layman
Chip made many moves where the only positive thing you could say was: Chip knows more than we do, maybe there is something to it we don’t see. Turns out: there wasn’t.
I actually prefer the common sense stuff Howie does. There are moves who don’t pan out, for sure, but at least there is logic behind it.
Good point Dom, “In Chip we trust” was a mantra here. While some of those head-scratchers worked out better than I thought, generally they added up to a steady decline.
Yeah, I was on the “In Chip we trust” bandwaggon. And sometimes trying to be smarter than anyone else works. Look at Belichick or Carroll. But you have to have a great football mind making those “unconventional” moves. You really have to be the smartest guy in the room for this to work. Chip wasn’t. Howie isn’t. But at least Howie knows that. And if you look at the Falcons, you can have success with a traditional way of roster building. Howie is capable of that imo.
Well, he seems to have “executed” an outstanding draft in 2016, given the class’ performance during their rookie years.
Too early to tell. What I mean is, regardless of whether Wentz is amazing or not, actually climbing the draft to go get him was exceptional. And Howie has been great at that for years.
Who are you pulling for in this one?
I can’t seem to pick a team. On the one hand, the Falcons are new, different and I like Julio Jones. At the same time, I kinda feel like I owe the Packers for taking down the Giants and shutting up the Cowgirls and their fans. In either case, I’m pulling for this game’s winner over the AFC winner.
Falcons
Why?
I hate GB, PIT and NE
Matt Ryan is from the area, and they are an east coast team.
I’d like Ryan being from the area more if he went to his local HS.
Rich Gannon went to St. Joes Prep.
They are both probably better off now for having gone to better schools.
Well good for their treacherous selves, doesn’t mean I have to like either one.
I dont think the Falcons are that new. They were here a few years ago and lost to the Niners. Then they fell into a slump.
Relatively speaking. They are not a perennial contender and really never have been. They do have good years now and then, but only have what? 1 Superbowl appearance. Compare that to the Packers who haven’t missed the playoffs in 6(?) or so years.
When you look at it that way then you you absolutely right. They don’t have the have the consistency of the other 3 teams.
I just meant that Atlanta has been knocking on the door
I detest NE, PIT and GB, but ATL has also never won a SB and it kills me to see another team crossed off that list before the Eagles….
Yeah, there’s that perspective. I have a co-worker/Cowboys fan who specifically pulls for any team that hasn’t won yet to get one before the Eagles.
most importantly its NOT THE COWBOYS
I’ll be rooting for New England. I’d rather not see Atlanta win a Super Bowl before the Eagles do.
But what if the Eagles are destined to be last?
Then there are going to be some additional beatings of other fan bases until morale improves.
Those lying jerks in NE are disgusting and do not deserve to be called great.
Amen to that.
I’m really not worried about the draft as much as I was. I think we are more than one off season from contending for the NFC.
IMO, The key elements to successful team construction and roster/cap management are:
-talent evaluation
-talent acquisition
-talent development
-talent retention
Eagles do best with acquisition and retention. They do not usually struggle to acquire and keep i.e. extend who they want. They manage the cap very well and are aggressive going after who they think is best. Problems arise since they go after the wrong guys and/or keep the wrong guys at times while letting other talent they could have used go.
This is due to having no clear team identity and plans for what type of team they want to be, what schemes will utilize their talent best and what wins consistently at the NFL level. Think of the most successful teams over the last 10+ years – Pats, Steelers, Packers etc. all have clear team identities and follow specific plans for building their roster in a very disciplined manner. They have some similarities, but are customized for their organization and are integrated into everything they do.
Due to having little strategic vision and aligning it with every facet of the football operations, the Eagles struggle the most with evaluation and development. Douglas hopefully will work with Roseman to develop those strategic plans and help improve the scouting/analytics components.
Talent development is the biggest unknown re. Pederson and the coaching staff. Roseman and Douglas can bring in great talent, but if the coaches cannot develop it effectively the benefits will be largely diminished. Management and the coaching staff have to be on the same page and work together well. We need to hire and retain the best coaches possible. The GM, scouts and everyone else need to be the best available. Standards need to be very high, Lurie being more engaged will help here.
You cannot build a winning team in a vacuum or by winging it. There has to be a strong strategic vision, disciplined plans and talented people to implement them throughout the football operations and team. It is a difficult process and takes time.
Really interesting way of breaking it down. For me the most important part of the process is talent development, the difference in outcomes for players with the right teaching and development is vast. Sherman does not become an elite CB if he was drafted by the Eagles in 2011.
Stability and a clear vision is useful for development since it provides continuity and means you do not waste talent. Rowe is a solid CB and could of been a long term piece – but due to scheme change and lack of continuity the Eagles failed to develop him effectively.
Unfortunately you need success to build stability and identity, so it is a chicken and egg issue. It is the reason why i think it is so important to find a true franchise QB, because that is the easiest way to short term success and long term stability. Lets just hope we have the right coaches and front office to make use of the talent we have.
Agree 100% with your stability, continuity and development points.
I differ slightly on the chicken-egg issue and that success is needed to establish identity. I think a patient organization can give GM and/or HC several years to prove themselves without winning immediately.
McCarthy had 8-8 and 6-10 seasons in his first 3 seasons in GB. Belichek had 9-7 and 5-11 seasons in his first 3 seasons in NE. I’m sure there are other similar examples.
Now, do they need to show improvement after that 3rd season? Yes, for sure, but, if the organization is confident they made the right hire, they should be ok with giving enough time for them to show their worth and get the roster improved to help them do that.
The Giants have also done this pretty well and Dallas is trying with Garrett who has had many .500 or worse seasons during his stint.
Team chemistry requires winning, but an identity is developed by ownership and management – what do we want to be known for, what do we want to excel in, how does it reflect our city/fan base etc. Steelers have done this best IMO – tough, physical 3-4 D known to dominate the LOS and dictate to offenses. Even as the offensive identity has migrated from a run-first ball control approach to a pass-first high scoring one. the D has maintained the “Steelers Way”. It fits perfectly with their fan base. That led to and helped cause the winning.
You could build a pretty good team with players the Eagles let go or gave away too soon, or failed to develop — Demarco and Kiko have had pretty good years this year, the defensive player that now starts on the Steelers offensive line, DeShawn, Maclin, Shady, even Chung an King Dunlap. I am sure others could name more players. It seems other teams know how to use these players. Part of it is scheme fit, but the Eagles haven’t had a consistent scheme since Andy left.
That Jones guy for the red team isn’t half-bad.
Jesus Christ, I don’t even think A-Rod can bring them back from this one.
I was thinking the same thing.
That defense can’t stop ATL.
I would onside kick after every score. Need to get the ball back 2-3 times and i cannot see the Falcon’s turning it over that many times.
At this point is basically the best kept secret in the NFL, that Aaron Rodgers hides the fact that McCarthy is a horrible HC and probably in the same position Reid was with us, that the roster is horrible and that its partly Ted Thompsons fault despite him being known as a top tier GM.
It really is criminal what they give Rodgers to work with offensively each year.
He has a great pass blocking OL, and a bundle of good WR’s that they have consistently invested good picks in. They struggle to sustain the run game, due to poor run blocking in their OL and an inability to find consistent RB play but Rogers has tools to be productive with.
Defensively there are far more questions.
True. He has never lacked for pass catching options.
It seems like their run game has been poor for forever. And the defense was very good the year they won a title. But its nowhere near that level now.
Lacey had 2300 yards in ’13 and ’14.
Imagine if he had a real running back.
Nelson, Cobb, Cook are all very good weapons and the OL has been very solid until today. Routinely, Rodgers had plenty of time to stand in the pocket and shred defenses.
Nelson is clearly not healthy with the ribs and the Falcons pass rush benefited by their offense jumping out to a huge lead. The GB defense got hammered and is really the weak unit on the squad.
PFF grading them out as a top 5 line.
The Falcons have this game in a deathlock, but if they go conservative on offense they are just inviting Rodgers to perform more heroics.
One more TD and that’s the dagger in the heart.
One More? I thought it was over with the last TD before the half
Falcons fans probably shit their pants after hearing Ryan got hurt.
I wonder if Falcons fans hate Toilolo as much as we hate our WRs?
So, if it’s an ATL-PIT Super Bowl are the Eagles the REAL Super Bowl champs?
No.
#AlternativeFacts
Why don’t alternative facts have to be true?
If I say they’re true, they’re true to me!
Alternative facts are not part of the objective reality, as per Merriam-Webster on my Twitter feed today.
Atlanta was not losing today
Reminds me of Eagles 1980 … No way we’re they gonna lose in the NFC Title game.
But Birds took a step back in SB.
Falcons may have played their best game today.
Hard to see them playing better than this. Wld live to, tho.
You also have to question if Atlanta has the intellectual / emotional makeup on the team / coaching staff to hang with New England on the brightest of stages.
The Patriots must not win. If Brady/Belichick win another Superbowl, that means Wentz/Pederson need to win 6 to be the greatest QB/coach of all time. That extra win takes it from a tall order to downright unlikely.
All jest aside…it must be friggin awesome to be a Patriots fan. As an Eagles fan, 1 superbowl win is like this unicorn that I’m pretty sure we will never capture. If you’re a Pat’s fan, are superbowl victories mundane now?
Now to root for the Patri*ts and the Steelers to lose, but the Patri*ts to lose more.
12th different NFC champion in the last 16 years….had not thought about it, but it really is the AFC that has been dominated by PIT, NE and Indy/DEN over that same time span. Peyton, Brady or Ben have been the AFC QB in the SB for most of this last decade plus. Crazy
With Flacco making one appearance in that time.
Inky reporting Groh is expected to be hired as the Eagles WR coach soon…
Just gearing up for the addition of Alshon.
This Brady guy seems a decent QB. Wonder if he ever amounts to anything.
I was just thinking that he is only 1 year younger than Donny. I can’t believe how Donny’s career fell off a cliff at 33/34 while Brady, Peyton, Eli, Farve, Brees, and Rivers are/were still going strong in their mid- to late-30s.
Donny didnt take care of himself like those guys do. He looked like he spent the offseason eating chili dogs and super big gulps
I’m curious is this type of lifestyle had anything to do with it.
http://ll-media.tmz.com/2014/04/17/0417-donovan-mcnabb-mug-shot-2.jpg
It’s not that hard to get a DUI, especially here in Arizona.
I would disagree. First, it takes quite a bit of alcohol to put a 230+ lb man above the legal limit…we’re not talking about a few beers with the fellows. Then it takes sheer stupidity to get in your car and drive when there are taxis, Uber, Lyft, etc. We are talking about a guy who made more than $100M in his career.
Just because. I agree with you 100% on the sheer stupidity of not hiring a driver.
http://patient.info/wellbeing/health/the-science-behind-alcohol-and-driving
Good stuff. There’s a reason why they say impairment begins with the first drink— it does.
Thanks for the link.
Since Uber came around, myself and several friends use it to remove any doubt that we may have had a few too many. A $20 Uber ride is a small price to pay compared to the alternate consequences.
Actually- a male weighing around 230lbs must consume 2-3 beers (avg 6% content) to be in the .08 BAC range. Depending on body type, mass, metabolism, age, and other factors- it wouldn’t take a whole lot to hit the legal limit.
I agree with the stupidity part, but I’m guessing tolerance plays a large part in the equation. Especially in his case. Entitled athlete who never quite lived up to expectations- hopefully he has found a solution to his issues.
Based on 6% alcohol, weighing 230lbs, even if he consumed 3 beers in an hour, he would still be under 0.06. If you are drinking more than 3 beers per hour in your 30s, you are being more than a social drinker.
http://www.orrlaw.com/aop/dui/prevention/bac-calculators/
Again- all depends on how the body breaks down alcohol; metabolism plays the key role in it. How the body mass is made up also plays a role.
Not saying Donny doesn’t have an alcohol problem, I hope he’s gotten help.
If I am reading the charts right and his BAC correct (.17), he needed to drink around 11 beers. Or maybe a six-pack and a few shots. That’s definitely more than I drink. But then, when someone’s that drunk, their judgment declines because of the alcohol’s effect on the brain, so doesn’t that explain why they do stupid things?
I wonder if worm burners age like fine wine?
More like malt liquor
He also endured far more injuries than all of those combined.
any chance the front office doesn’t overthink the draft and just take bpa in the first 2 rounds….?
Think there is always the temptation to push needs up the board. If the best player is a ILB (could well happen) but they feel they need to focus outside on WR/CB i think they could force a pick at either spot.
Howie and Doug still have limited fan support – and if they do not address needs high in the draft i think they will have significant fan backlash, and if that (non CB/Wr) player is not immediately impactful it could cost Howie or both their jobs. While pressures like this shouldn’t impact decision making – they consistently do.
Need and BPA is pretty close to the same for the Eagles consider the talent where we have needs
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000777165/article/what-we-learned-from-shrine-game-moreau-could-be-1strounder
“Moreau, a cornerback from UCLA, was among the standouts at Shrine Game practices in St. Petersburg this week. His competition to be a first-round selection is going to be stiff at his position; one NFC personnel executive believes as many as 15 cornerbacks could be worthy of being selected among the top 40 choices.”
But does he have “swagger”? If not, Schwartz won’t want him.
I’m still trying to get my head around Rowe possibly starting at CB for the Patriots in the Superbowl if they hold off Pittsburgh. It’s hard for me to think we still need 2 starters for next year. But at least we get a 4th round pick in 2018.
It’s not hard really. Belichick makes anyone look good and he’s the 0.1% when it comes to defensive masterminds.
It’s easy to be a mastermind with Tom Brady leading the offense. But point taken on the fact that he makes all different types of players look good on defense.
Belichick has to be the greatest football coach of all time now.
Rowe & chung, Dion Lewis and Amendola .. great coach.
We should have a great CB available in the 2nd round and probably a good one in the 3rd round.
I’d support moving back to get an extra pick especially if they can get a CB in a supposedly deep CB draft later in the 1st round.
It depends I guess on how close the Eagles feel they are and how many holes they have. My sense is that Roseman knows he has only two thumbs and several holes to fill on this roster for this is a legit SB contender.
We need depth; most of our starters are okay (obviously we have some holes) but we need talent across the board. I’m always about more lottery spots.
Why is Matt Patricia never discussed for head coaching positions
Because every coach looks like a genius when Brady is the QB. Whole team steps up their game. Put Sanchez at QB and the whole team will underperform because they know they have no chance.
Because much like Ron Rivera really running the D in Carolina, I don’t think much goes on with that D without Belichick’s say so.
Problem with the Belichick coaching tree is that everyone tries to imitate his leadership style and team first ‘do your job’ style of team character. However that is a significant change from most locker rooms, and you need instant success to get continued buy in and to embed that culture. Belichick managed to take on a team that had charismatic leaders who fully bought in to what he was preaching, and managed to immediately bring success (plus find Tom Brady).
Those circumstances are hard to replicate, even if you are as great a scheme designer as Bill, and it is no surprise that most of his coordinators have failed to be able to implement his vision when they have tried with other teams.
Figured this game was over once Bell was over and sure it enough it was.
Belicheck and Brady have been surgical though on exploiting the Steelers’ secondary and going after the 2 rookies whenever they are 1-on-1 especially vs Hogan.
Brady is the best QB ever. Certainly not the most skilled or athletic but the best given his overall body of work and the possibility he does this for another 2-3 years.
These may have been among the worst playoffs ever. Only decent game was last week – Dallas losing alone made it a good game, but it was a nail biter. The rest, meh. Nearly all the playoff games have been boring blowouts. The only other close game was Pitt-KC.
Don’t think this has been a ‘great’ NFL year. no dominant or even great teams. All the teams (outside of the Pats) are flawed to an extent so it is no surprise that when in big moments teams have failed to consistently perform.
Having said that, i am shocked how bad the Steelers and Packers have been defensively today – both actually had decent defences recently, and have just been sliced up today.
you have to take into account that the green bay defense had injuries.
Also the Steelers had half their team taking turns with stomach flu all week. Repeated vomiting wears you out!
If the Eagles offseasons add 2 quality players only, their in trouble.
Even if those adds are a 100-1300-10 WR and a 12 sack DE?
He’s a GM and not a magician. He does this and this team wins 10-11 games next year even if the CBs and RBs are only adequate.
You didn’t qualify how much quality those two players could provide!
I wanted to say that the last offensive juggernaut that made it to the Super Bowl got badly beaten but then the Patriots turned on the jets.
The Dark Lord obviously was pleased by Belicheck’s sacrifice and granted his desires for Hogan to have an all-time great playoff performance today.
I wonder how many baby cows, lambs, sheeps, goats, llamas, chickens and whatever die by Belichick’s hands.
Must be on an industrial factory farm scale.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBGB8f1CUAA6yLd.jpg
Fit well with the blue hoodie that Belicheck is wearing pulled up today too.
This is where I’m at with it…
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9583f28145ba98bcaaf7d558a4153271b60f4cb4f541b7903e072f0f57403530.jpg
Belicheck smiled and kissed his girlfriend after the game looking really happy. Almost human.
The CGI technology is getting better.
Sith mind trick.
Will Gronk be able to play ?
No, he’s on IR for the rest of the season.
Thank you. Too bad for him.
I was so sad when they announced that shortly after the injury. I find Gronk endlessly entertaining.
I wonder how the Patriots are cheating these days. I guess we’ll find out in a few years.
Actually think there were many NFL teams stealing tape and I think Belichek took the fall for a bunch of teams, for Goodell and for the NFL.
that same weekend he was busted the Eagles signal-callers had towels up around them so it was definitely more than just the Pats
The problem with Belicheat et al isn’t just one time stealing signals. It’s a systemic searching for ways ro cheat. And they will not stop because the League will not take wins away from them.
Lets not kid our self, the Eagles and everybody else cheat the same way.
If you ain’t cheatin, you ain’t trying hard enough, as I heard John Stockton say.
Brady has a 130.2 QB rating vs Tomlin’s Steelers and is 5-1. Ownage.
Think 4-0 against Falcons also they said
Amazing what happened prior to the start of today’s game when you tried to say that to Steelers fans.
Still have no feelings one way or another about the Falcons and haven’t since Vick was there.
They have a pretty cool logo, and also they are a bird team like us.
They are also an NFC team and in the Eastern Time Zone and . . .
True. They are a lot like us. They have a QB that throws the ball, RBs that run the ball and WRs that ca… um, never mind.
Yeah, Falcons: I got nothing. Wouldn’t surprise me if they shredded the Patriots, too, I guess. Don’t think I’d care either way.
Am I missing one, or was the GB/DAL game the singular watchable playoff game?
Bpa in the first. Trade back in the second. Nab a quality player in the first, then when the talent starts to even out, trade back for more picks.
Interesting. I’m curious what guys could be added by trading down in round 2.
So I traded down twice in the 2nd to do this.
Round 1 Pick 15: Marshon Lattimore, CB, Ohio State (B+)
Round 2 Pick 30 (PITT): Isaiah Ford, WR, Virginia Tech (B)
Round 3 Pick 2 (S.F.): Duke Riley, OLB, LSU (B-)
Round 3 Pick 10: Alvin Kamara, RB, Tennessee (B+)
Round 3 Pick 30 (PITT): Isaac Asiata, OG, Utah (B-)
Round 4 Pick 12: Zay Jones, WR, East Carolina (A+)
Round 5 Pick 1: Marquez White, CB, Florida State (A+)
Round 5 Pick 11: Jeremy Sprinkle, TE, Arkansas (B)
Round 6 Pick 10: Larry Ogunjobi, DT, Charlotte (A+)
Round 7 Pick 12: Storm Norton, OT, Toledo (C+)
I am not against trading up in the 2nd either, often there are 1-2 1st round grade guys that fall into the early 2nd, and if one of them fits a need then it can make a lot of sense to spend a 4th or 5th round pick to jump up 7-10 spots and grab him.
Howie has sort of a history of doing this lately. As I recall we traded up for Matthews in the second and last year they did it again to get Rowe.
I wonder how much influence Chip had in those cases- Howie seems to be all about based value, and assigning set values to specific draft spots. I really don’t know if we will ever see him trade a future 1st for anyone other than a QB, since that position ranking is so much higher than others.
I generally appreciate Tommy’s positive outlook/spin on the Eagles’ fortunes.
However from this vantage point, last year’s draft additions – Seumalo, Vaitai, Smallwood – all have the scent of “serviceable” rather than “exceptional.”
Hope I’m proven wrong. But to me serviceable = mediocrity.
And the OL may need more attention than is perceived by many. Jason Peters had his moments last season, but he appears closer to being “done” than the Birds are willing to admit. Kelce looked terrific in Kelly’s offense. In this one, not so much. To me, there is really only one stud OL and that’s Lane Johnson. And that’s about 3 less than Cowboys currently field.
So yeah, Wentz needs playmakers around him but he also needs a solid, reliable OL on front of him – no, actually he needs an EXCEPTIONAL OL on front of him.
btw – how many Pro Bowl WR’s do the Patriots field? None. However I’d trade the Eagles’ crew for theirs in a heartbeat. Great QB, strong OL and excellent coaching make all the difference …
It is really Brady.
Substitute Brady for Wentz on this current Eagles team and he would be hard pressed to have much more success than Wentz. He’s great but he is not that great.
C’mon. Brady’s touch and accuracy especially on shorter passes is way beyond what Wentz can do right now.
But can Brady make Agholor or Matthews catch passes that land right in their hands?
From a 3rd and two 5th round picks I would consider serviceable as rookies a job well done. The key is how much they grow from here. I don’t believe anyone is labeling them exceptional at this point.
Also, you left off a significant draft addition.
I think you are being too negative. Jason Peters was one of the seasons highest graded O Linemen and the best on the eagles (outside of Johnson in limited snaps). His play is falling off, but even so he still performed well above average this year, compared to the rest of the league. Brandon Brooks graded out at one of the best guards in the league, giving up a total of one sack all season. Seumalo, outside of his first ever NFL game, has looked like a solid starter, even though he played three different positions on the line as a rookie. He should get better whereever they play him and looks like a stable for the future. Lets assume that he is meant to be our center for the future. As for Vaitai, he may not be a player you want to have as a starter, but could be a high quality swing tackle and excellent depth. You can argue the same about barbre, if you want, but he actually played very well as a starter too.
The O Line doesnt look like the wasteland we were afraid of. The only troublesome challenge is the need to go and get a high quality starter at tackle somewhere this year to replace Peters. That can be hard to do, but its still just one good player. You can pick up good guards with later round draft picks or by throwing some money at the position once jason and Kelce is off the books.
By the way, Wentz, who was also a draft pick last year, looks a lot better than ‘serviceable.’ So I am an optimist. The whole things is about getting a WR1 (for the love of everything that is holy!)
I appreciate your optimism. However I’m not seeing what you’re seeing. Hope I’m proven wrong …
* and please check my follow-up post re. Dallas OL.
You don’t have 22 exceptional starters.
Seumalo is a solid to above average starting OL. Vaitai is a swing tackle with a shot to develop into a starting RT.
You have Brooks, Seumalo, and Lane on the OL. That’s a good starting point. You don’t have 5 pro-bowlers. All 4 teams that played Sunday have good OL. Alex Mack, David Bakhtiari, Pouncey and DeCastro are the only real “exceptional” guys out of those 20.
You don’t have to be Dallas or Oakland, but you can’t be Seattle. The Eagles are fine. They need a LG and RT long term but those guys don’t have to be all pros.
What are your thought on Lamp? Some seems to think he is a 1st round pick
I like him. He’s behind Feeney at G for me. Good and physical. I can see first round.
As far as the rest of the top OL guys:
I’m still a big Cam Robinson fan. He’s the top OL in the draft for me. He’s got alot of La’el Collins to his profile (maturity, consitency issues) probably best to start him at G, also you’re going to have to have an environment to bring him along on and off the field (I would say Eagles do) Cam is the only OL i would take at our pick. He had a down year but is super young a 3 year starting LT for Bama and his highs are really high.
Feeney is polished and high IQ guy. He’s probably going to go between our picks, but could be a target in a trade up or trade down.
Pocic I have no clue on anymore. Did a recheck of his 2016 film (I had a 1st on him last year and liked him more than the Bama kid) and his Mizzou tape was flat out dogshit. He had hip surgery in the offseason and ankle injury, so I’m not sure exactly what was going on.
I’m not a huge Ramscyzk fan. There are just so many Danny Watkins red flags. On the field he’s good in the run game and has good enough feet to play LT (though not premium feet). I get the appeal, I just want no part in it.
Bolles has as much “holy shyeeeeet” tape as Cam. But he’s older (25 in May) and still pretty raw. Good story off the field as a guy who has pulled himself out of some pretty dark depths.
My personal man crush is Isaac Asiata (who is more of a 4th round type). That’s a dude who has better movement skills than he should by looking at him and perfectly exemplfies the concept that “at some point it’s really just a fistfight”. He puts people on the ground.
Dallas: Tyron Smith 1-9 Travis Frederick 1-31 Zack Martin 1-16. Without these 1st ROUND talents, Elliott and Prescott would not have had remotely the success they had.
Right now the Eagles have a lot of “serviceable” at best OL’s. Johnson is the exception. Peters is pretty much done.
If the Eagles continue to look for “serviceable” linemen in the middle-latter rounds, Wentz’s development will suffer.
Simply, as Dallas obviously noted and acted on – it ALL starts with the OL on offense.
Sure those guys were drafted in the first round, the line is an area where guys can be very successful from other rounds.
I agree completely to invest in the O-line. I think forcing anything, even OL picks (Mr. Watkins anyone?) is bad business.
I also think making an assumption on what Seumaulo will be is unwise. He wasn’t taken all that far from where (maybe) the best guy on the All-pro team was taken – Keleche Osemele.
Again the Falcons have 1 “exceptional” guy
The Packers have 1 “exceptional” guy
Derek Carr developed fine with 3 very good OL but not exceptional OL his first two seasons.
The Patriots have zero “exceptional” OL
I’m not saying forget the offensive line but Wentz development can and will suffer just as much from not having anyone to throw the ball to.
This time last year it was “build a super defense like the Broncos”. Three years ago it was “defense and a running game like the Seahawks”
More than one way to skin a cat.
It’s hard to be one-dimensional and still win.
https://twitter.com/SportTaIkJoe/status/823303183405645825
Part of it was the number of injuries to the Packers secondary, the other part of it is that Dom Capers is nowhere near Bill Belichick’s mastery of defense.
It seems like Capers has taken a serious step back these last few years; but like you said, injuries have to be taken into account.
I don’t care if you are starting Tommy at ILB in your 3-4, moving Clay Matthews to that spot instead of OLB where he can attack is stupid.
Might even be more stupid than dropping your best pass rusher into zone coverage on 3rd and 20.
Brady is great because of the victories. His ability isn’t great. Maybe that makes him even greater.
Then there is the whole defense thing.
Tommy,
In 2015 I thought the Eagles made a big mistake choosing Nelson Agholor over Bud Dupree, clearly choosing position over talent. In this year, I think that there is a good chance that Jamal Adams or Malik Hooker will be available when the Birds choose. Do you think that we should pull the trigger on one of those guys or is it going to be another desperate choosing?
If they have a group of guys ranked similarly, then its more based on team need. If one guy is of a much higher rank than other positions, even though he isn’t a position of need- then you take the highest rank player.
It all comes down to how an individual team ranks a player, regardless of position. That’s why some players have almost zero shot with individual teams, regardless of their talent- they just don’t fit. It doesn’t mean that guys don’t fall through the cracks.
In your statement, it all comes down to how we rank those players. Would it be nice to have a safety that can adequately fill in for when our slot CB goes down for the year, forcing us to use our best safety in his spot instead? Surely. But it all comes down to group rankings, regardless of team “need”.
If there is a guy with a massively higher rank than the next guy, you go get him and figure it out as you go.
Sure, if you can somehow manage to trade Jenkins or McLeod for a 2nd.
The Eagle’s need football talented player’s at OL,WR’s,RB and CB’s, player’s who show up on game tape not combine stars…
“Not every key move is an elite FA signing or 1st round pick. Help can be found all over the place.” — 100% agree — however, you need SOME elite talent, especially on the offensive side of things. A team with avg to below avg players — finish at or below avg. Wentz is a good start. But can’t hang our hats on a (possible) great QB without a supporting staff….
I’d rather root for the Browns than someone like Tyreek Hill. Thin line between second chances and not facing consequences. I’d rather error on the side of sending the message that beating up pregnant women is unacceptable, even if you aren’t caught on tape.
Larry Fitzgerald was recently named Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year finalist.
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/95846100/arizona-cardinals-larry-fitzgerald-domestic-violence-accusation-tmz
Interesting never heard about that. The larger issue the article raises about awareness now and then is not a new thing, but does do a good job of analyzing it.
Does make me uneasy that I get a sense of conviction from you when the guy was accused by someone with a motive. Not to mention she admits to swinging a punch at him.
I posted the article to show how awareness has changed since Ray Rice.
I think Larry was given a break by the NFL beat writers due to his father’s relationships within the industry, even though Angela Nazario received an order of protection against Larry.
Zeke’s situation comes to mind to how the NFL, and the media, takes accusations of domestic abuse much more serious today.
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/12/14/ezekiel-elliott-domestic-violence-nfl-investigation-process
When compared to Ray Zeke has really flown under the radar. I see what you mean though. The days of the media protecting the players seems to be over for sure.
Big difference between accused and convicted, though. Fitzgerald might have done something bad. Hill did do something bad, and I’m ok with that coming back to haunt him. I agree that there are similarities, and if someone wants to hate on Fitzgerald, certainly their choice. But Hill’s actions were more egregious, and he has less of a body of evidence to fall back on to claim the public’s goodwill.
I’m just tired of athletes and others in privileged positions getting away with crap, and the message that sends.
I don’t buy the conviction angle. Although he was originally convicted, Greg Hardy had all charges dropped after paying off the victim. Millionaire athletes have ample money to pay off victims to avoid charges in the first place.
Again, clearly a different situation, though. Maybe something fishy happened behind the scenes with Fitzgerald, but it’s pretty much all conjecture. Hardy almost certainly smells worse than Fish Taco Tuesday. But you are correct, money can buy freedom.
OFF TOPIC: I know a lot of you enjoy beer, so you should know that Sierra Nevada has issued a voluntary recall of their Pale Ale along with some others. Check your bottles, if it has an M printed on it or anywhere on the box, it’s part of the recall. Here’s more details:
http://news10.com/2017/01/23/sierra-nevada-brewery-issues-36-state-recall-of-select-beers/
It’s about the Giants compared to the Falcons, but it reads like it could have been written by Howie a year ago:
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-giants/post/_/id/50727/what-falcons-making-super-bowl-should-teach-giants
“They added a talented rookie RB”
Meh
Still confused by why Eagles fans worry about the cap while Howie is here?Howie has 99 problems but the Cap ain’t one (neither are contracts or trades)
All we need to worry about is player evaluations, and I think howie realizes that he can no longer afford to be an ego maniac. Im encouraged by adding Joe Douglas but I don’t give a shit If HOWIE listens to him or not, all that matters to me is did we nail the player evaluation or not? How they got there is none of my business. as the Boss Howies responsibility is to know what advice to listen to and what advice to ignore, As the boss he can’t pass the buck, there is no where left to hide. He can listen to Douglas, Pederson and even Wentz, all that matters is Did we nail the player evaluation or Not? That is the only question that matters at this point in Rosemans career, we already know he is great at contracts and trades.
Because they don’t have a ton of room and they have some really bad contracts he signed last offseason including Curry and Daniel.
I’d agree this is his strength in general but the situation over the next year or so is far from ideal.
How opposed to Joe Mixon would people be…? I’m sad to say, I’m ok with it if the interview goes well.
no thanks
Hard pass – i want 0 people in my locker room with a history of domestic violence. The reality is that vast majority who commit violent acts against partners will do it again. Its a bomb waiting to detonate and i would rather spend my ‘moral’ capital rehabbing a guy who smoked weed than someone who would beat up his girlfriend.
playing devil’s advocate here but — wasnt his girlfriend, was a stranger.
I know but was speaking more generally. Bringing in these guys can be a distraction with media interest and criticism and i would rather be spending my ‘moral capital’ on people with weed issues than something more violent.
I see what you’re saying but if he’s there in the 4th or 5th, would be very hard to pass.
but signing a guy like Tebow wasn’t?
The eagles drafted like 3 guys lat draft with those issues
he never should have put a finger on a woman — buuuuut, supposedly she spit on him, called him the n word and smacked him… again no excuse, but at least it wasnt completely unmitigated.
a guy big enough to play div 1 football and go into the NFL is the size equivalent of a “regular” adult male hitting a 10-year old. His excuse was that when she hit him “it felt like a dude hit me”. And he didn’t just open-hand slap her, but hit her with a full right cross. Because her friend supposedly used a racial slur, he responded with a gay slur, and then she got mad and hit him.
again – no thanks.
totally see what youre saying and I agree with that viewpoint. however, at the same time, I dont know what half these guys do in their spare time and dont get caught. not looking to the eagles for role-models. just want to win games, if i’m honest. obviously there’s limits to that but this is right on the borderline for me if he’s remorseful, made a mistake and works to rectify it. i’ve done a lot of stupid things as a 19 year old too… albeit never hit a woman.
He also has a name like a game generated player in NFL2K. Pass.
It’s fine. We live in a Trump world now.
He only grabs them though
Pass
Was Joe Douglas already in place for last years draft/Free Agency? We pretty much nailed the player evaluations last offseason.
Think most would agree that our rookie class seems pretty promising
Wentz
Seumalo
Vaitai
Smallwood
Mills
Joe Walker
Not bad at all considering our limited draft picks. Even better is the fact that our coaching staff seems to have done a ggod job developing them.
..
Free agency was pretty solid as well
Brooks and Mcleod were our main acquisitions and both look very promising so far.
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Nigel, Ron Brooks and Leodis were probably more on Swartz than the front office but Nigel looked very good for most of the season, and I liked having Brooks physicality as our nickel back before he got hurt. Good ST player too
Leodis was the most dissapointing, but that was probably schwartz call and injury contributed to Leodis struggles
.
We had so much work to do, unrealistic to fix everything last offseason so we had to take fliers at a few positions like WR, but by definitions Fliers aren’t likely To pan out. If the Front Office can have another offseason like the last one, we will probably be close to having most of a future contender in place. Two more good offseasons should definitely get us to contender status. we aren’t far, but WE HAVE to put together a few good offseasons in a row, can’t have a good draft followed by a horrible draft. The trick is putting together a couple of quality Offseasons in a row. We are about 1 third of the way there. Two more good offseasons to go
No he came in after the draft. I do think we had a very good draft and i wonder if it was more ‘vanilla’. It is hard to draw conclusion with limited sample sizes, but in 2012 and 2013 (the best recent Eagles drafts before this year) you had front office in control and just working off their big board. 2010-2011 and 2014-2015 you had coaching staffs with increased power and far greater ability to influence and set the draft board.
If that was the case i hope they keep the coaches out of the war room this year again, let the scouts scout, and coaches coach, and as long as there is clear lines of communication and shared vision then there shouldn’t be too many issues.
You both touch on valid points- letting people do their jobs, have clearly defined roles and let your employees work therein. Our off season was very good last year, and at this point our draft was on point as well.
As of now, Countess was our only miss; Walker was to be the backup MLB and McCalister was drafted with a red shirt “IR” year in mind.
Finding the right employees for the correct situation, at the right time is always a challenge, no matter if you are in big or small business; the NFL is no different.
Coaches coach- their input for measurable’s, scheme, types are invaluable. Scouts find these traits, deliver a profile and allow the GM to do his job in defining value and selecting players therein. It all circles back to the coaches.
In 2013 and 2016 we had very high picks, in 2014 and 2015 we were picking at or near the 20s.
Also its WAY to early to say anything about this draft class. Wentz was the only one that played any decent time. The RBs seem injury prone. But i hope everyone is successful
Don’t draft a WR in the 1 st rd.
Think Falcons have a decent chance? The AFC this year was not strong, though I give the Pats credit for beating a good (but not great) Steelers team. I think the Falcons have as decent a shot as any other team.
I dont see any reason to say they have no chance at winning. I think they had a beter chance of beating the Steelers though