Slider?
Posted: April 3rd, 2017 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 227 Comments »Jonathan Allen is one of the best prospects in the upcoming draft. He has production, ability, size, character…everything you want. Unfortunately, he also has arthritic shoulders. We don’t know exactly how serious this is, but it obviously isn’t ideal in a kid just heading out of college.
Without the shoulder issue, Allen would be a lock to go Top 5. He still might go that high. But it is possible that Allen could slide. If he is on the board at 14, do the Eagles take him?
The key to this would be the fact that they would have to be comfortable with his shoulders. If they have any real doubts, pass on him and go to the next prospect. If the Eagles have a solid medical grade on him, then you move to the discussion about whether Allen is the right guy to take. It would be incredibly tempting to want to line this guy up beside Fletcher Cox every week.
Slo-mo look at Alabama's Jonathan Allen in run game- sheds TE down block / kills pulling OG and makes tackle-
Awesome pic.twitter.com/kPNPzLvE07— Mike Mayock (@MikeMayock) February 9, 2017
Alabama DE Jonathan Allen: Tremendously talented! Look at the hand fighting and athleticism here! #NFLDraft #NFLDraftScouting @AlabamaFTBL pic.twitter.com/CLfzZhTIa6
— Bradley Ylitalo (@NFL_drafthub) February 8, 2017
Here's another Jonathan Allen play. This is silly. pic.twitter.com/uRNmpOr7ns
— Daniel Jeremiah (@MoveTheSticks) January 3, 2017
And the play of the year.
Myles Garrett sounds good, but also wouldn't mind watching Jonathan Allen do this in a Browns uniform. https://t.co/iYDF4YsXOP
— Alex (@_AlexWolford_) January 29, 2017
I mean…wow. Just wow.
By the numbers. Allen is 6-3, 286. He had 12 sacks in 2015 and 10.5 sacks in 2016. That is excellent production from a college DT. He isn’t a great athlete at all. His workout numbers are pedestrian.
I think Jim Schwartz would love Allen because of his ability as an interior rusher. Getting to the QB is the key to Schwartz’s defense and the best way to get to a QB is up the middle. As good as Bennie Logan was, he wasn’t a gifted pass rusher. I think that is the key reason the Eagles were willing to let him go. They wanted him back, but he wasn’t a guy to break the bank on.
One of the other benefits to having a guy like Allen in Schwartz’s scheme is that it would make stunts and loops even more dangerous. Vinny Curry and Brandon Graham have both played DT in the Nickel. Fletcher Cox can line up anywhere. Those guys could fly up the field or you could have then running twists and stunts and giving blockers fits.
Some of you will respond that the Eagles need DBs more than DL. That’s true. But what if no CB is rated as high as Allen? Don’t force picks due to need. This is only the 1st round. The Eagles could add Allen and get CBs in other rounds.
I doubt Allen slides down to pick 14, but if he does, I would have no problems with the Eagles taking him. Any time I have a chance to add a pass rusher, I’m all for it. The Eagles had 33 sacks last year. Adding a disruptive force like Allen would boost that total. It would also take pressure off Jalen Mills, Patrick Robinson and whatever rookies are on the way.
_
Allen is no. 1 on my big board. This would be a dream come true (with the caveat that we could be taking an injury risk).
I’m no doctor, nor do I play one on TV… but the arthritic shoulder issue scares the crap out of me. For this “top 5” level talent to fall all the way to 14, 9 other teams will have to have had a medical evaluation that told them to pass.
Plus, as D3FB pointed out in the last thread Allen creates an issue with the deployment of DT resources on this team. As I recall, the Detroit Lions (under some hack named Jim Schwartz) had Suh and Fairley at DT. I was nearly 100% certain at that time that those players together would help to put that defensive unit over the top. Oops…
2011: Suh 4.0 Fairley 1.0 Record 10-6 (Wild Card loss to Saints)
2012: Suh 8.0 Fairley 5.5 Record 4-12
2013: Suh 5.5 Fairley 6.0 Record 7-9 (Schwartz fired Dec 30th)
Conclusive evidence that Allen shouldn’t be the pick at 14? Probably not, but I thought it was worth consideration.
Thank you. “Doesn’t pair well with Cox” is all I needed to read in the last thread to allow me to pass on Allen.
I had a swimsuit like that once.
Not sure what this is showing?
Sack total for each player and team record. It’s open to anyone’s interpretation as to whether it’s meaningful or not. Just wanted to point out that two elite DTs have been paired, by our very own DC in recent history. So, we can look at the results.
If memory serves correct, I believe those Lion’s defensive units were plagued with poor DB play… so the comparison could be even more frighteningly similar.
Fairley didn’t live up to his draft hype, and has only really gotten into his groove with the Saints- though he’s never been the monster people imagined he could be in the league.
I would say there are a lot of other moving parts to a team. Those totals are solid for DT, though certainly not spectacular. But remember, he doesn’t blitz.
That’s part of my concern… I don’t happen to believe that adding a new improved DT is what our Dline needs. My opinion is that the only way we’ll see a serious improvement will be upgrading at DE (and I think that may even be a help to Curry, as he can get back to the utility role of rushing from DE/DT situationally). I believe one DE position is ok with Graham, the rotational guys are ok/good with Curry/Long, and DT is great with Cox, and doesn’t matter much for the other spot. Adding one higher tier edge rusher will put the unit up a notch. Adding a high tier DT will just keep things about the same as we saw last year.
It’s a legitimate opinion. My preference would be for a top DE as well. My thought on Allen is that he can be a star player, and those make a difference at any position. But someone like Jamal Adams would probably have less upfront impact, due to depth at the position. Long term, he could have as much impact on a team as anyone in this draft.
I think he is suggesting that even stud DTs in Schwartz’s system don’t guarantee success. Ignores the Lions’ offensive woes but he is just throwing it out there as some food for thought.
Fairley was a massive disappointment though for his first few seasons. He had effort and conditioning issues and it plagued his play. Obviously that could happen with Allen too, but it’s not guaranteed or anything. But the same could be said about any prospect brought in.
You’re Fairley certain it was a lack of effort?
I kid, but yes, that’s worth mentioning.
How many times do you think Howie/Joe has asked Schwartz this question in the last few months:
“OK, Jim, if these guys fell, which one will have the single BIGGEST impact on our defense right away?”, and then listed names like Allen, Foster, Thomas, Reddick, etc.
I don’t rule out Howie jumping us up a few spots even. Man, 14 is such a great spot. We’re so used to being in the 20’s and just missing out on elite picks. This month is going to feel like a year waiting….
I was wondering about jumping up a few spots as well, especially if Allen starts to slide. The shoulders definitely scare me but the prospect of adding him to our DL is tempting. Think of how many sacks our DEs gained off penetration from Cox and Logan over the past couple of years. In that way, getting another inside penetrator may free things up for the guys on the outside. Tempting…..
Looks like we just got a guy to fill that Logan spot. And in fact, somebody who’s had pretty consistent numbers the past couple years (13 sacks).
Now, give me Foster, Peppers, or Reddick as the non-cb 1st rd wildcard for this Eagles defense.
Gotta get in front of the Saints and Browns (11&12). Browns are the wild card as they can add talent at any position, and the Saints because our team needs are very similar. Bills at 10 have potential, but that would take probably our 3rd this year.
Strong play for Alshon, mildly amusing play for Torrey Smith… both on shortish prove it type deals.
My magic 8 ball results are a bit confusing, but does this hint that the Eagles are looking at the 2018 WR class with more interest than the 2017 class?
That’s one way you could look at it, but I think they’re not going to turn down player upgrades at any position excetp QB in this draft.
I’m sure they want more weapons (anywhere), and really almost desperately want to pair Wentz with young weapons to grown with him… But they’ve also got to be looking at the long game for team development. Do you have any hot WR prospects for the next class?
WR this year – RB (Saquon Barkley) in 2018.
Any mid rounder WRs you like in particular?
Oh yeah – many of them. One in particular I like is Ryan Switzer, UNC. He is a Cole Beasley clone – a waterbug, that drives defenses nuts. Also, Taywan Taylor, K.D. Cannon, Chris Godwin, Josh Reynolds, Chad Hansen.
Beside the shoulder issue, what scares me the most is the combination of him benefiting from the talent on the Alabama defense + his measurables, that are not pedestrian but incredibly bad for a potential top5 pick: https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jonathan-allen
You better be VERY confident in his game tape translating, because that’s some awful numbers all across the board.
It’s likely that some team will have that confidence level before 14.
That is vs Defensive Ends… Jonathan Allen is a Defensive Tackle..
I’m curious to see where Allen goes; I hope it is to a team that takes him instead of Corey Davis!
I passed on the human hamstring injury (Lattimore) and OJ Howard to take Humphrey.
Round 1 Pick 14: Marlon Humphrey, CB, Alabama (A)
Round 2 Pick 11: Cordrea Tankersley, CB, Clemson (B-)
Round 3 Pick 10: Zay Jones, WR, East Carolina (A+)
Round 4 Pick 12: Isaac Asiata, OG, Utah (A)
Round 4 Pick 32 (COMP): Davon Godchaux, DT, LSU (A)
Round 5 Pick 11: Amara Darboh, WR, Michigan (A+)
Round 6 Pick 10: Matthew Dayes, RB, NC State (A)
Round 7 Pick 12: Calvin Munson, OLB, San Diego State (B)
I enjoy these simulations- amazing how 1 early pick changes the entire complexity of the draft later.
The nfl should have a “fan vote” option when teams are on the clock. Of course it wouldn’t matter, but it’d be interesting to see what the masses believe.
They can’t do it… the millions and millions of votes for a punter by fans who hate the Cowboys and Patriots would be too embarrassing for the league.
Sure, but it’d be fun to see the results and it would give the fans another opportunity to “feel connected” to their organization.
Oh, I agree it’d be great. I just couldn’t turn my smartassery off on that one.
Imagine an idiot owner taking a kicker in the first round!
They are a lot of fun.
Was John Ross on the board when you took Humphrey?
Yes. I don’t consider Ross worth it at 14.
I’d have booed…… 🙂
I think he’s Joey Galloway. Once every 20 years. Injury is my only concern with him.
Excellent!
Hate it. Huge reach for Humphrey no way he is an “A”, OG isn’t a need and not even for BPA. And to pass on Lattimore and Howard is just crazy.
if the place that gave the ratings gave true scores – nobody would do it
I’ve received a ton of Cs and Ds from that simulator as well if it thinks I’ve reached or taken too many guys at that position.
I understand the difference of opinion on Humphrey completely. I’m not sure how reach-y he is at 14. You very well may be right.
Howard is a tough guy to pass up for sure, but Lattimore can F off. I’m not trying to worry about him laying down on the job with bad hamstrings. If one more young player from our teams misses more significant time with injuries; I might wind up in jail after I snap. I’m really sick of it.
Is it just me that most of the so believed top 5 prospects in this draft all have some injury (or other) concerns?!
The more I read about this draft the less thrilled I am.
Last year the sense was a team needed a top 8 pick to get the(potential) elite type players and that there was a sharp drop off in talent(again, that’s all talk by ‘pro’ evaluators). I haven’t read much talk about that kind of drop off this year. This prospect could fall, that prospect could fall. I’m surprised there isn’t more talk of teams in the top 10 looking to drop back(maybe there is, I don’t read all that much about it)
there’s a mathematical proof that applies here where x is Eagles pick
Players we really want before drop off in talent = x-1
I think this is the simplified version derived from the original:
talent + (# of players picked by Browns before ours) = x + (# of Browns picks before ours) – 1
As we know, you can eliminate the Browns from both sides, and playoff discussions, each spring.
I actually like what the Browns are doing. It’s very Hinkie like.
It is true. There are at least 12 guys who are guaranteed top-5 picks, and half of them are injured.
Does arthritis go away? And this kid is how old? I’m all for taking changes — but serious surgeries and arthritis scare me. Huge trust in Dr’s if he drops and Eagles take him.
arthritis is chronic, but its way more common among football (and other sports) players than just limited to the few you hear about.
For many players its more about pain tolerance. Of course a young guy like Allen will have about zero mobility in his shoulder at the age of 50 if he manage to play many more years
Chronic and degenerative. However…
Would you rather get an impact player for a short career or a healthy JAG? Impact players win games, not JAGs. JAGs you can get anytime.
In the NBA, the Spurs made this decision with DeJuan Blair. They picked up one of the top college players in the 2nd round because the guy had no ACLs. All the other teams were scared off.
Meanwhile, the guy came into the league and played great for them for several seasons, materially helping an already good team. They unloaded him after a while, so it wasn’t some kind of earth-shattering, Tom Brady-esque revelation, but still an illustration of how good teams operate.
If those are the only options at 14, we aren’t doing something right.
devils advocate … Eagles aren’t ready for that guy yet. Kind of like they aren’t ready for Peters and Sproles. That aside 🙂 .. are you saying the Eagles should take Jones?
Huh? I just pontificate, I’m not a Decider!
Vinny Curry again. Not athletic enough to get to the QB from DE on 1st down and not big enough to play the run at DT. He’ll play 45% of the snaps.
Anything’s possible, but comparing him to Curry coming out is a pretty big stretch. If he drops out of the top 5, it’s due to the shoulders, not his size.
I just meant more a tweeter like Vinny. Not sure where he starts for us.
Vinny being able to move inside and out is pro for him, not a con. His performance last year was another issue. Not sure if it was more on him or the coaches, but hopefully Long will bring out the best in him.
the con is he can’t get on the field on first down. He is great when inside 1 on 1 against a guard. He can only do that on passing downs. Hence so little PT with 3 different coaching staffs so far.
Allen would definitely be in on first down. His ability vs the run compared to Curry is night and day. Curry has to rely on his speed to get upfield, lacks awareness. Allen can manhandle blockers, has great vision.
I like Allen, just not at 14 for me. I’m not sure he’s going to manhandle the Jason Peters of the world and no killer first step to get around them.
Great Tape
Great Character
Poor Workout and Measurables
Health Concerns
I need 3 of 4 at 14, not 2 of 4. But I’ve been wrong before.
Well, if your standard is being able to manhandle Peters, then I’m not sure we’ll ever draft DL in round one. 😉
I think you have to separate DT from DE when looking at measurables. He’s average, not poor. Though you certainly would like to see above average with a high pick. The last point is the big one. I’d be inclined to take a chance with arthritis, no one is drafting guys who will retire with the team any more. I don’t think he lasts anywhere close to 14.
Chris Long is my new favorite player.
https://twitter.com/JOEL9ONE/status/849104180874805249
Tommy, are you still on board with Allen if he plays the same technique as Cox?
I don’t think Cox has to stay in the 3 to be effective. Allen may very well be capable of moving around situationally as well. I think the real problem is that if he drops to 14, then there are several teams whose doctors red-lighted him.
First round picks are guys you need to be on your team for 8-10 years, not just the first contract. If the medical says he can go to 30 y/o fine; otherwise, pass
The ones that pan out are the ones that cost too much to stay around …
Romo is retiring. Good for him.
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2017/4/4/15175756/tony-romo-to-retire-from-nfl-go-into-broadcasting-per-report
does that alleviate the cap hit at all?
nevermind:
Dallas is expected to designate Romo a post-June 1 release, softening the blow against the Cowboys’ cap this season. Instead of counting $24.7 million in 2017, Romo would count $10.7 million this year and $8.9 million in 2018. The Cowboys would gain $14 million in cap space, but it would not become available until June 2. But after Tuesday, Romo will no longer be with the Cowboys.
Can’t wait for another ex Cowgirl broadcaster.
It really is a shame that McNabb blew his chance.
Who knew being passive-aggressive wasn’t a good quality to have for a broadcaster. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Is that a DUI reference?
Silver lining: At least he knocked the worst color analyst in history Phil Simms out of #1 on CBS.
I mean no one can be worse right?
I thought he retired years ago.
Retiring and being unable to stay on the field are totally different animals.
As much as I hate the Cowboys, watching him being helped off of the field time and again isn’t what football is about- kind of like watching the remnants of Farve when he was with the Vikings. Nice in theory, but someone is going to get severely hurt.
You guys are so gullible. He’s going to pull a Favre and come back to a contendah.
To pull a Farve, he’d have to come back and play for another NFC East team.
Lots of QB turmoil in Washington.
Tony Romo coming back to Washington and going full heel. I like it.
Sliders? I thought we wanted Fastballs. For my money, we have had turrible, turrible luck with players that have medical problems. Pass.
Just no more screwballs.
So, it’s kind of like a curse, that if we choose players that have injury problems, they’re going to do worse here than expected? 🙂
Well, we probably have better curses than that. It’s been my experience that we Philly fans can curse with the best of them.
So, I created the definitive draft simulation. I am confident everyone will agree about this one:
Your Picks:
Round 2 Pick 9 (CINN): Fabian Moreau, CB/FS, UCLA (B)
Round 2 Pick 11: Desmond King, CB/FS, Iowa (B+)
Round 2 Pick 15 (BALT): Chidobe Awuzie, CB, Colorado (B)
Round 2 Pick 18 (T.B.): Ahkello Witherspoon, CB, Colorado (C+)
Round 2 Pick 28 (DAL): Sidney Jones, CB, Washington (C-)
Round 3 Pick 6 (NYJ): Joe Mixon, RB, Oklahoma (A-)
Round 3 Pick 10: Dede Westbrook, WR, Oklahoma (B+)
Round 3 Pick 28 (DAL): Cooper Kupp, WR, Eastern Washington (A)
Round 3 Pick 43 (NYJ): Chad Hansen, WR, California (B+)
Round 4 Pick 9 (CINN): Carlos Henderson, WR, Louisiana Tech (A-)
Round 4 Pick 12: ArDarius Stewart, WR, Alabama (A-)
Round 4 Pick 31 (CINN): Corn Elder, CB, Miami (Fla.) (C)
Round 4 Pick 32 (COMP): Erik Magnuson, OT, Michigan (B+)
Round 5 Pick 11: Brian Hill, RB, Wyoming (B)
Round 6 Pick 10: Jeremiah Ledbetter, DT, Arkansas (A-)
Round 7 Pick 12: Alek Torgersen, QB, Pennsylvania (C)
and we have no future picks for the next 3 years? Or you traded Wentz?
Nope, I didn’t touch future picks. The trade up scenarios the computer offers may be off a little.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/085b9270d263ac3fc1196d720f24fda0b79e588a97d0af22b7995f1e434c704b.png
aka the “We need more lockers!” draft, or the “hope you like overtime, Howie” draft.
You didn’t draft any pure Safeties so I cannot agree with this draft.
We need more cap room…
This feels like the Patriots dream way of drafting…
Taking Allen at 14 is more of a dream than reality IMO, as the mocks I have seen has him going in the top 5.
If he’s there at 14 it means that other teams have confirmed he is damaged goods and in that case, we should not consider him.
I know this is all speculation, but a realistic pick at 14 would probably end up being a reach if we fail to move up or down.
I would like to see us move up and get a top corner that fills a position of need, but Lattimore’s injury history scares me and is Humphrey worth moving up for.
I have faith that Howie will pull off something we will all like.
Myles Jack
Daquan Bowser
I think Lattimore is the only “top” CB we will miss out on. After him it really comes down to who teams like more out of Humphrey, White, Conley etc etc.
Agree, if he drops it’s due to medical. I’d be concerned that our docs missed something.
For me round one is shaping up into: trade up for Solomon Thomas or stay put and get Humphrey or OJ Howard.
This is probably showing my inexperience in “scouting” but why all the love for Derek Barnett in Tennessee? I know he has a mess of sacks, but so did Marcus Smith. How many are earned sacks (beating his man) and how many are given (unblocked and coverage)?
I need to start a tally sheet…
I haven’t watched all of his games yet, but from what I have seen is he is weak at the point of attack. He relies on his speed/first step to run by the OT’s. When they get him engaged he tends to just stop. His bend is ok, but he doesn’t use it to push the edge. I’m not seeing a great future DE, I’m seeing more of an OLB with no displayed coverage ability.
He’s strong at the point of attack, very good hands. Watch his Bama tape, when they are pretty much gameplanning around him and he’s going up against a 1st round pick at tackle. He’s not perfect, but he still gets a strip sack and a pick.
The Bama and South Carolina games are the ones I’ve watched. I just didn’t see much from his game to scream early 1st rounder. I saw talent that needs work and a decent late 1st (25+) or 2nd round pick. I feel the same way about him as I did Brandon Graham back in the day. Solid but I don’t think he’s perennial Pro Bowl material.
To answer your question, people fall in love with production. Barnett isn’t perfect but he has things that coaches would label as intangibles. Nose for the ball, feel for the game, and etc.
I’m with you on not loving Barnett. His game has never been about being a great athlete. He’s a good technician and plays with good balance. His first step isn’t that explosive and he’s not that strong. Compile that with his short arms and his value coming from just his college production, it makes for an overrated prospect.
Thanks. I’ve always loved the draft and am actually putting in time this year to watch more tape (not the highlight reels) and get a feel for players.
Just wanted to get some other perspectives to see if I was missing something.
If the Eagles draft him, I hope I’m wrong on him being overrated.
A buddy of mine said he read a long article explaining that Barnett’s production is often based on guessing snap counts rather than winning 1 on 1 match-ups; that’s not ideal.
If Fanspeak gives me Lattimore at 14, who am I to say no?
14: R1P14 — CB MARSHON LATTIMORE, OHIO STATE
43: R2P11 — CB TRE’DAVIOUS WHITE, LSU
74: R3P10 — EDGE JORDAN WILLIS, KANSAS STATE
118: R4P11 — WR CARLOS HENDERSON, LOUISIANA TECH
139: R4P32 — RB JAMAAL WILLIAMS, BYU
155: R5P11 — DL CHARLES WALKER, OKLAHOMA
194: R6P10 — LB JALEN REEVES-MAYBIN, TENNESSEE
230: R7P12 — OT JAVARIUS LEAMON, SOUTH CAROLINA STATE
Talk to the hamstrings.
They said replace me with your hamstrings.
If you’re going for wild surgery options… why stop there? Myomer cable hamstrings all the way.
Ice up, Son!
Hamstrings can be pretty convincing when they argue that it’s time to sit down.
interesting.
curious on cap ….
$1.4m cap hit this year, final year of deal.
Costs almost nothing on the cap – Ravens eat his remaining signing bonus and his annual salary is just $1,017,669 this year, meaning it adds about ~$500k to the salary cap.
So, who pays the prorated bonus of $377k (rounded up)? Would the Ravens, since he was their pick- or is that transferred to the Eagles since he is under contract with us now?
pretty sure ravens do.
Ravens
DAMNNNNNNNNNNNNN
SWEET
Eagles traded for Ravens DT Timmy Jernigan, per source.
No shit. 25 spots in the 3rd sounds like decent compensation, but Douglas was with them when the Ravens drafted him.
I go do work for 15 minutes and this happens. That’ll teach me
Is an interesting trade – compensation for the trade is worth a goodish 5th round pick which for a 2nd round pick who put up decent production so far in the league seems ok value even if you only have him 1 more year.
Ravens know what they are doing but the Eagles front office obviously know the player and like him so it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Regardless it really helps bridge our DT issue this year, and with the addition of Long we wont need to force picks on the DL.
Considering he was drafted at #48 overall a few years ago- and we don’t actually have to give up a draft asset (just selection number) this is a great move by both teams.
Jernigan didn’t fit their long term plans, and we need a guy that can play the 1 technique with some fight. Seems like a good marriage, and as you pointed out- we know him as a player thanks to Douglas.
With the DT market being what it was last year, there looks to be a flood of talented options on the market next year which should create a favorable atmosphere to resign him if they choose.
When I checked the trade chart, that works out to a late 3rd/early 4th as compensation.
Correct. 116 point difference (220-104) = pick 96.
somewhere – Media Mike stands up and slams down on his desk knowing he has to now re-do all those mock drafts…
He’s not the only one 🙁
That’s fine; because the simulator will adjust.
I’m more annoyed that we didn’t get him cheaper.
Jernigan > Bennie.
What’s the oral surgery du jour?
Gym. 🙂
Glad to hear it.
Maybe my temporary crown made this trade happen.
Wait what happens if I get my permanent zirconia crown next week…
I brought up Jernigan as trade target awhile back, maybe Tommy or someone who does watch Ravens football can elaborate some more on his game now.
I wonder if Tommy can get Joe Douglas to come on the board and discuss him as a prospect? Maybe he can make his user name Doe Jouglas so we don’t know it is him?
What does Howie need to make this possible?
I wonder if he likes chocolate pudding, Ray Ban sunglasses, and Megan Fox?
So uhh does anyone know any budget Megan Fox lookalikes?
So if my memory serves me well Jernigan might be the only one of many guys basically on a 1 year deal the Eagles actually CAN extend during this season.
They can extend all of them if they wish. Only players you cannot extend are tags and veteran mins.
I’m afraid that’s not true. I’m 99.9% that you can’t extend AJ during the season.
For what it’s worth, Jernigan was projected to be a low first round pick in 2014. I loved his power and motor back then. He has short arms that made me question if he could be a 3-4 NT back then but seems like it hasn’t bothered him much as a 3-4 DE.
Jernigan an Eagle damn not bad news to wale up to. Eagles have really addressed all positions of need this offseason in some capacity. This up coming draft is going to be a defining one. Gonna be good!
Not only is he a good prospect, we didn’t give up too much to get him. He should hold up at the attack point very well, and he should offer more in the way of pass rushing compared to Bennie.
I didn’t think we could get him without giving up a pick. This makes me happy.
So let’s trade for Kyle Fuller and Draft here we come!
Agreed. And get picks for Kielce/Kendricks this year. Am I being too greedy?
No. Who ya kidding mate?!
OTC recently did a Free Agency review of us and grade of “A-“. They applauded pretty much all of the moves except for signing Foles (which I agree with). His numbers really balloon next year. But it is good to hear they liked the rest of the moves. Also liked the Jernigan trade, which obviously is not included.
https://overthecap.com/free-agency-review-philadelphia-eagles/
With the addition of Jernigan, it’ll probably be safe to say that we’re not going to take a DT in the first 3 rounds. Jonathan Allen is a great prospect so if he slides to us then maybe a team that wants him can trade up for him.
The only downside is that Jernigan needs to be locked up long term (sorry D3 looks like we might have to pay our NT). I think he’ll get something a bit north of what we offered Bennie (9mil a year).
Not sure about the ‘north of $9m’ that may take it to extend him, but I’m definitely on board to not draft a DT in the first 3 rounds in this year’s draft.
You think he’ll get more or less?
Well, I stand corrected.
After reading more raving reviews about him your prediction might be spot on after all. Good job mate.
I still think Hankins will set the market for DTs. Jernigan will probably get something near that range if not more.
Yes but not sure if it helps Hankins the longer he’s on the market.
Yup but I’m not complaining. He could make Jernigan cheaper for us.
Agree on draft and shame on having to pay north of $9 mil; barf.
I feel sorry for Tommy. Timmy was definitely a bad Timing for his article today.
Remember it was if they’re OK medically w/ his shoulders; maybe here’s the answer.
Prior years seem to have brought these depth players who don’t force Eagles to draft for need earlier in free agency. This year there are 3 late in the process. Is this totally a function of cap space or is this more analytical in accessing what could be available in the draft?
Making up for bad drafting. They simply don’t have a lot of cost contained high quality players right now.
The first “not breaking our neck trying to draft a DT in the first 3 rounds draft”
Your score is: 12276 (GRADE: B+)
Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 14: Corey Davis, WR, Western Michigan (A-)
Round 2 Pick 11: TreDavious White, CB, LSU (A)
Round 3 Pick 10: Cameron Sutton, CB, Tennessee (A-)
Round 4 Pick 12: Samaje Perine, RB, Oklahoma (A-)
Round 4 Pick 32 (COMP): Elijah Lee, OLB, Kansas State (B)
Round 5 Pick 11: Sean Harlow, OG, Oregon State (A-)
Round 6 Pick 10: Stevie Tu’ikolovatu, DT, Southern California (A-)
Round 7 Pick 12: KD Cannon, WR, Baylor (A)
I’m not looking forward to seeing who comes off of the board between 74 and 99 now.
Just add Jernigan to that list and it’ll lessen the blow.
I’ll just leave this here…
https://youtu.be/3U9N2l3Sy6s
He doesnt sound happy lol
That’s because they’re turning into the effin Orioles!
He’s also grossly misinformed. Jernigan hasn’t made a pro bowl nor are we getting their 4th.
While moving down 25 spots in the 3rd round doesn’t sound much, the Eagles actually gave up a late 3rd rounder for Timmy. At least according to multiple draft value charts…
Pick 96 equivalent. So if he’s here beyond a year; it’s a good trade. If he’s not; they gave up too much.
Good football player for our scheme and I honestly saw him as a 4-3 guy coming out of FSU anyway.
Yes agreed. A third rounder for a 1 year rental would be steep. However I believe that they will extend him
So moving from mid-third to late third is the same value as another late third pick? That sounds like the trade value chart is a little out of whack there.
Given the option, would you not trade every pick we have for two picks at the end of the same round?
Early 3rd to beginning of 4th is worth end of 3rd. Not every round is that quirky. 99 is essentially the 3rd pick of the 4th round if there aren’t any comp picks in that year.
Yes that’s why I always think the draft value chart is only here for comparing purposes, rather than for a driving business decision factor anymore.
Imo those charts overvalue draft picks.
This calculator is based on historic career value on picks
http://www.footballperspective.com/draft-pick-value-calculator/
Wait, what did we give up for Jernigan? I’m totally lost and blown away by this news.
We dropped from 74 to 99 in round “3.”
We gave Baltimore our pick in the 3rd and got their comp pick back. We gave up 116 points in the deal or appx. pick 96.
We get Timmy and just a swap of 3rd round picks this year.
To be 100% honest
– I’m glad we added a good player
– I’ll be irked if he’s only here for a year
– I’ll be irked if he cost too much to retain
– I think he’ll be really good here
– Because every deal is measured vs. AJ Feeley for a 2nd; I was upset we gave up pick 96 value (given Jimmy’s contract status) rather than Kelce, Kendricks, or one of our extra 2018 4ths.
Weren’t they prepared to pay Bennie 7-8M a year? If the guy plays well i think the team will attempt to resign him.
If you can get him in here for 5 / $35 mil; that’s all good if you have cap hits of $3, $5, $7, $9 and $11 from 2018-22
There were reports the Eagles had offered him a multi-year deal midseason that Logan turned down. Just didn’t see any firm dollar terms associated with it but only loosely speculated.
They had a huge ‘need’ there and still have a bunch of holes to plug on this roster. Can only do so much in one draft.
This is where the Eagles really lean on Joe Douglas and what if he thinks this is a good player for the scheme & to fill their need.
Almost need to make another one of these types of moves at CB too because the prospect of Mills starting outside next year is terrifying to me.
I 100% understand that and like the player we got; I’m just cheap and want surety.
This to me is part of where I don’t necessarily understand what the Eagles are trying to do next season.
They did give up a fair amount of value here to fill an immediate need next season but I would be surprised if this is a long-term solution at DT.
If Lurie and Roseman are pressing for patience this offseason (including the real possibility they might not make the playoffs again next year), why make this trade?
Fair question.
He may be here long term but my initial thought was the Eagles are going hunting for 2019 comp picks. Even assuming they retain Alshon
– Timmy Jernigan
– JMATT
– Trey Burton
– Nigel Bradham
– Beau Allen
– Chance Warmack
– Marcus Smith
– Najee Goode
I cant wait for 10 extra late 3rd rounder who then all turn out to become a poor man’s version of Curtis Marsh…
If they get one or two dirty cheap starters and a couple key contributors for very little money from 2019-2022….
You know, when we’ll be in the prime of our window.
Sure. Understand your reasoning. Not sure if we will get away with cheap starting DTs in real life though.
I think they treat it alot like G. Hope the guy you brought in gives you a tough choice to make, meanwhile hope you stumble onto something from a day 3 guy, and worse case accept you’re going to have to address it in the draft next year.
I’m glad you put a space before the last 3 names. 😉
Doesn’t really seem to be in Roseman’s nature.
Happened incidentally but worked out well.
That makes sense; as long as we don’t see Howie purchase all of those possible 2019 comp picks into oblivion with too many 2018 signings.
I doubt any of them will get really good contracts. So we’ll get some pretty bad picks. And we’d have to sign a good amount of free agents to replace our losses. I don’t think anyone’s strategy is to get comp picks.
You don’t think any of them are going to get good contracts?
Really?
-Jernigan and JMatt are probably both 8mil a year minimum
-Burton, Bradham and Allen all probably get 5ish a year
-If Warmack is good he’s worth 8mil a year
-Smith and Goode probably sign non min contracts which is all you need for a seventh round comp
If they draft well this year they can prefill some of those holes. Others can be filled in the draft next year. We will sign some guys back but you could easily pick up a handful of comp picks.
Too much risk to be a way to help assemble a team, in my opinion. All those guys would have to have pretty good years.
GB, Pats, Ravens etc. have done it for years.
Teams like the Pats even sign veteran to contracts so that even if they cut em (decline team option) to get more comp picks
You really think Howie has the discipline to sit on his hands? I suppose it’s possible.
Normally I’m against the “don’t trade him you’ll get a comp pick” because we only have two or three guys walking. We have enough guys walking that even if we go pick up a big name and one or two others you’re still looking at a bevy of comp picks.
So you’re saying Howie can get his fix and Douglas can still get his comps? Win-Win.
DESMOND TRUFANT COME ON DOWN!
I just find it amusing how on one hand everybody wants to go “Look Joe Douglas’s impact!” and then dismiss comp pick theory which is what Baltimore loves to do
I won’t argue but it’s not like Baltimore is the gold standard either
Good point.
Going to need cheap labor when they start working on the contract extension for Wentz
So sign a bunch of good/decent players on 1-year deals, let them go, thereby hollowing out the team, and then get a bunch of compensatory picks? For a team that’s average at best at drafting?
Warmack isn’t good. He’s pure boom or bust. Jernigan is the only good player brought in for one year (Alshon too but he’s in the keeper bin)
Hollowing out the team?
Watch this:
4th: Elijah Lee LB Kansas State
5th: Xavier Woods S LA Tech
6th: Michael Roberts TE Toledo
7th: Trent Taylor WR LA Tech
That’s without touching the top 4 picks.
And you add a DT in FA and hope that one of him or Destiny can be the backup 1 tech next year and know you have to draft one in 2018.
Er, are you saying the Eagles are going to draft 4 starters in rounds 4-7 this year?
And that signing Alshon for a 1-year deal will give the Eagles a significant advantage in resigning him?
No but I’m saying you could draft a LB who can play the Will this year and take over for Bradham in nickel sets next year, a 3rd safety to groom and take over for Jenkins when he’s gone, a TE who has some catching ability and the frame to be an inline blocker (ie a suitable TE2 with Ertz) and a jitterbug slot WR.
And yes I would say it does.
New mock incoming reflecting today’s trade.
And here is who we didn’t get from 74 through 98
Round 3 Pick 14 (78) (BALT) Giants: Chris Wormley, DT, Michigan
Round 3 Pick 15 (79) (MINN) Raiders: Montravius Adams, DT, Auburn
Round 3 Pick 16 (80) Colts: Joe Mixon, RB, Oklahoma
Round 3 Pick 17 (81) Redskins: Marcus Maye, FS, Florida
Round 3 Pick 18 (82) Broncos: Elijah Qualls, DT, Washington
Round 3 Pick 19 (83) Titans: Pat Elflein, C/OG, Ohio State
Round 3 Pick 20 (84) (T.B.) Chiefs: Marlon Mack, RB, South Florida
Round 3 Pick 21 (85) (DET) Patriots: Adam Bisnowaty, OT/OG, Pittsburgh
Round 3 Pick 22 (86) (MINN) Raiders: Cameron Sutton, CB, Tennessee
Round 3 Pick 23 (87) Giants: Kendell Beckwith, ILB, LSU
Round 3 Pick 24 (88) Raiders: Gerald Everett, TE, South Alabama
Round 3 Pick 25 (89) (HOU) Seahawks: Zay Jones, WR, East Carolina
Round 3 Pick 26 (90) Seahawks: Rayshawn Jenkins, FS, Miami (Fla.)
Round 3 Pick 27 (91) (K.C.) Buccaneers: Tyler Orlosky, C, West Virginia
Round 3 Pick 28 (92) Cowboys: Chris Godwin, WR, Penn State
Round 3 Pick 29 (93) Packers: Samaje Perine, RB, Oklahoma
Round 3 Pick 30 (94) Steelers: Alex Anzalone, OLB, Florida
Round 3 Pick 31 (95) (ATL) Dolphins: Ryan Anderson, OLB/DE, Alabama
Round 3 Pick 32 (96) (N.E.) Lions: Jalen Myrick, CB, Minnesota
Round 3 Pick 33 (97) (COMP) Dolphins: Anthony Walker Jr., ILB, Northwestern
Round 3 Pick 34 (98) (CAR) Titans: Josh Jones, SS, NC State
I was working on a trade scenario where I ended up with all of those picks.
I once did a spite draft where I took every trade down offered until there were no more offers to be made. It took forever, gave me crap players, but was totally worth it to see that many names.
You sir have an addiction.
IM ok with it. With got a starting DT and still have a 3rd round pick. We go back 20 spots but we dont have to use a pick on DT.
Following that logic, we essentially gained a pick, since we don’t need to use one for need.
Using Cowboy logic… he’s only 24 so that essentially another 2nd round pick.
I like those top 3, pretty reasonable. A RB in 3 or 4 at this point is no longer a luxury.
I couldn’t get a RB I liked to fall to a spot I wanted. Major failure.
No worries. Barner will get cut and return to us!
Sprinkle!!
Dream scenario was Jonathan Hankins, but I’ll take it.
Given economic realities in the NFL, I greatly prefer this result.
Jimmy Tergins is younger. I’ll take him.
And not tainted with the stench of the New York Giants
Steve Smith, anyone?!
Preparing for some big plays…
https://youtu.be/RPbyZuXNMUk