Up Chuck?
Posted: April 17th, 2017 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 343 Comments »The Eagles are very interested in pass rushers in the upcoming draft. We’ve talked about a lot of different targets, but one guy has eluded discussion to this point…Charles Harris from Missouri.
Harris declared early for the draft after a 9-sack season for Mizzou. That total doesn’t begin to tell you how disruptive he was. Harris might be the most explosive pass rusher in the draft. He’s certainly one of the most disruptive. He’s 6-3, 253 and is a terrific speed rusher. 4-3 teams will want him as a DE. 3-4 teams will like him as an OLB.
Harris had a poor showing at the Combine. The guy you see on tape looks like an explosive athlete. He posted poor numbers and that got everyone a bit worried. Some of you will wonder why that’s a big deal. Game tape is significantly more important. You don’t need players to shine at the Combine, but you do want them to be at least solid, especially if their game is built on athleticism.
Luckily Harris had a much better showing at his Pro Day. His vertical jump went from 32 inches to 37.5. That shows explosion, which is what the game tape showed. That workout made me more comfortable with him. It was thought Harris would go in the late 1st or even early 2nd round. The Pro Day workout has people thinking that he might climb back up to the middle of the 1st round.
The Eagles have worked out Missouri defensive end Charles Harris. A projected first-round pick, Harris had nine… https://t.co/iqC7UKkkKL
— Tim McManus (@Tim_McManus) April 12, 2017
The Eagles might consider Harris a target at 14. Watch him at RDE below and you can see him down in that stance in the Eagles D.
!!! LOVE Charles Harris's elite quickness! Right to the cooker! @Charles_AO1 @MizzouFootball @Ian_Johnson16 #NFLDraft #DraftTwitter pic.twitter.com/P3q0IgUS01
— Bradley Ylitalo (@NFL_drafthub) March 15, 2017
Many predicting Steelers will draft DE Charles Harris at 30. #Steelers pic.twitter.com/BhQAnTcTlw
— Blitzburgh (@Steel_Curtain4) March 7, 2017
And you can bet Jim Schwartz would have interest in that kind of an explosive edge rusher.
Is he worth pick 14?
Harris reminds me somewhat of Dwight Freeney, who was taken 11th overall. Freeney was on a different level, though. He had 17.5 sacks as a Senior. He was 266 pounds. He ran 4.48 at the Combine and had a 40-inch VJ. He wowed you on the field and with his workout.
That doesn’t mean Harris isn’t a Top 15 pick, but he’s not sure to go that high. Some teams like 250-pound edge rushers. Other teams prefer bigger guys. The Eagles could see Harris as similar to Brandon Graham, who was taken 13th overall back in 2010. Graham was 268 pounds. He tested well for speed, quickness, agility and strength. He did have a poor VJ (31 inches). Graham was a great college player and then dominated at the Senior Bowl.
Harris feels like he is a notch below Graham and Freeney, but the Eagles could still consider him worth pick 14. One thing that helps him is that Mizzou has put out a string of good DL in recent years. Aldon Smith, Sheldon Richardson, Kony Ealy and Shane Ray all starred for the Tigers.
Oh yeah…and his game tape is really impressive.
https://twitter.com/DaBigEasy24/status/843968146696486916
Why didn't you guys tell me about Charles Harris earlier? pic.twitter.com/g8K1tdUu9T
— Marcus Mosher (@Marcus_Mosher) February 4, 2017
I don’t know if the Eagles will take Harris at 14, but I don’t think he’ll be sliding to the end of the 1st.
_
First
I really hope the Eagles get a DE in rounds 1-3 this year. Big range of options available for the team and they can probably afford to have a light pure pass rusher next year coming in for key passing downs, considering Graham, Curry and Long all are solid run defenders. What the Eagles lack is a guy who can just beat a mismatched Tackle with pure speed.
Maybe Harris will be that guy… i would probably prefer a 4-5 spot trade back for another 3rd round pick… I want one of the elite DL to fall to 14 for us to take him there.
Re: I want one of the elite DL to fall to 14 for us to take him there.
Like who? Allen ?
Garrett and Thomas almost for sure aren’t going to fall and Barnett isn’t quite elite because he isn’t quick enough imo.
There’s a speed DE on our roster, i’m looking forward to seeing the progress of Alex McCalister in his second season. However I would not mind one of these stud DEs in the first round. Barnett intrigues me the most at 14
Barnett isn’t an elite player. He’s a good solid all around DE.
wasn’t there a Missouri D lineman a few years ago who claimed he was first round material, was drafted late and then washed out in training camp?
How would that have any bearing on this at all?
I don’t get how that matters, but Harris is a drastically better than Michael Sam.
Harris is so much more explosive than Michael Sam at his best when he was at Missouri. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Sam wasn’t a pass rusher, wasn’t he a DT?
DE, some DCs might view him as a SAM.
No he was a DE. Richardson played DT.
Is it bad that I like this guy more than Barnett? Stud situational pass rusher early in career until he can develop run defense behind Graham Curry and Long – as opposed to Barnett who may not be able to get to the Quarterback as well at the next level…
Nope, I feel the same as you do with Barnett.
He really has to get stronger, which is certainly feasible. But he was taken advantage of in the run game in college, and would likely be abused in the pros. Reminds me somewhat of Randy Gregory. I don’t like the pick at 14, would much rather take a chance on a few other guys.
I’ve only been saying the same thing for a weeks. Maybe now that Tommy wrote an article people will actually believe it. Barnett is solid. You don’t target solid with the 14th pick.
Bold prediction: Alex McCalister will have more sacks than Vinny Curry this year
Not so bold prediction: That will not happen.
“His vertical jump went from 32 inches to 37.5.” — something isn’t right. I heard of having a bad day. Or maybe at a 2 large pizza’s the day before — but adding 5.5 inches in a vertical jump? Did he forget to pump up his sneakers or something?
Yeah I thought that was a big difference too. Maybe he tweaked something before the VL at the combine or cramped up…these guys are maxing everything out at the combine. It’s hard to know when injuries are real though or convenient excuses and I don’t know if he did or not.
Some of these guys just get fatigue and don’t perform their best at the combine. They play an entire season, jump straight into combine training, and then spend long days getting evaluated at the combine.
He is explosive and very fluid. As Tommysaid you can see it on the tape. Bad combines happen. That’s why they do pro days as well.
I just want to know if he improved from the Blutarsky percentile he got on the 60 yard shuttle. 0.0.
I bank hear you breaking the hearts of all the Barnett lives out there. They have latch into him because they so desperately wanted a DE to be worth 14. How dare you give them another (and better) option. They’ll have no choice to stick to their guns now after gushing about him for th last month.
10 more days. Just breathe.
I would be happy with either Harris of Barnett – in no particular order. If Joe Douglass and Jim Schwartz want either and get him, and it works out – great.
I really will reserve further judgment as I trust in those two to find quality DE.
I also like Willis but don’t know that he’ll last between our 2 top picks.
Stud pass rushers are hard to find. If they think either can turn into one, I’m all for it.
Andy Reid once said “I want two offensive tackles, a quarterback, two pass rushers, two corners, and I’ll figure the rest out”.
Precisely.
Andy Reid was a very, very lucky guy once upon a time.
Before he coached a single Eagles game . . .
(1) he inherited the 2nd overall pick – used for QB D-Mac
(2) he inherited 2 starting CBs – Troy Vincent, Bobby Taylor
(3) he inherited 2 starting DEs – Hugh Douglas, Brandon Whiting
(4) he inherited 1 starting OT – Tra Thomas.
I’d say Reid walked into a pretty good personnel situation.
And immediately signed Runyon.
Whiting was a DL and if my memory is correct, he wasn’t a starter but more of a rotational-type guy with minimal pass rush ability. Even so, your point is still valid.
For as good as those positions were to Andy, Doug has made out pretty well himself.
Absent the starting CBs, you could contend that Peters, Johnson, Graham, and Cox are an upgrade from Andy’s tenure. We don’t know about Wentz, but he sure seems like the real deal.
The irony isn’t lost on me that both Andy and Doug’s luckiest break was due to Cleveland’s inability to draft a QB, considering Cleveland passed on both Donny in 1999 and Wentz in 2016.
I can already envision this Jeopardy question 20 years…
Contestant: “I’ll take major NFL front office blunders for $500 Alex.”
Alex: “Which former National Football League team not only passed up on a franchise QB Donovan McNabb for Tim Couch, but also passed up on Hall of Fame QB Carson Wentz for Mitchell Trubisky?”
Contestant: “Who are the Great Britain Browns!”
Alex: “Correct!”
I imagine they’d be the UK Browns, or pick a large city (London, Birmingham, Liverpool).
I agree with everything you said. That said, the Eagles under Reid…
(1) Made the right pick in getting McNabb at #2 overall when they could have picked Ricky Williams or one of the other bust first round QBs.
(2) Did a good job of replacing Vincent and Taylor with Lito and Sheldon through the draft.
(3) Went hard after Runyon in free agency to have a great set of bookend tackles for a number of years.
OK, this is the second time I’ve seen it. RUNYAN. A.
Sorry, my bad.
Speaking of spelling errors, you spell your name wrong. Steven is my name too, but I spell it correctly with a “v” instead of “ph”. 🙂
5) HOF Safety
Basically the highest paid positions.
Barnett was brought in for a visit today. He could have been brought in to confirm his athleticism. Apparently he strained his hammy before the pro day but still did drills anyway. He ran identical times at his pro day (4.89s) and was sick before the combine (4.88s).
Isn’t that about the same as Harris? Other drills matter more, tape matters way more.
No? Harris improved his numbers. Barnett didn’t. If his excuses are valid then his stock doesn’t fall. If it isn’t then it’s just his agent blowing smoke out of his butt to try to salvage draft stock.
Everything matters. Combine/testing, tape, personality, injury history and etc. Player evaluation is not a 3 step process.
So yes, it was about the same 40 time, but Harris improved at his pro day. I don’t want to quibble over testing numbers, because even though everything matters, not everything matters the same. Harris had better have significantly better agility numbers, because it’s his game. He doesn’t, though. I think it’s silly to suggest these two are equal, but I realize that’s an opinion, and others are welcome to differ. Harris has bigger boom or bust potential, which may sell someone on draft day. But I’d be very surprised to see him go before Barnett.
That will vary for teams and coaches. Teams obviously fall in love with prospects enough to disregard some red flags. However that doesn’t mean that they’re not taking a higher risk. Who could forget this classic from John Harbaugh?
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2235619/harbaughhatesteo.gif
True, Barnett’s game isn’t based on speed rushes. You still need the minimal athleticism to make an argument to stay where you were ranked on the board and vice versa. Again that varies from team to team, however the concept still remains the same.
http://settingedge.com/movement
This article is a good read about how athletic testing can weed out potential busts
Nice article, Harvard also did some studies to conclude that 40 times, 3 cone, and weight were the most important for any prospect regardless of position. It’s also no coincidence that some of the best players are also the most athletically gifted.
Visits are meetings not workouts
well you know what smart guy? you’re right.
Take Foster off your wish list. Thanks.
Did he just slug a girl in the face?
Much worse, he has a bum shoulder
From slugging too many girls in the face?
Nope. But his rotator cuff hasn’t fully healed yet and he might need another surgery.
I’d pass…
Just saw that too. This is starting to feel like a draft where we look back in a few years and think, if only the first 3 or 4 guts we liked had stayed healthy we wouldn’t have ended up with _____.
https://twitter.com/revengeofbirds/status/854081692776181767
We can always hope for bong rip videos released minutes before the draft, right?
Didn’t really want him but now I don’t want him at all.
Was Foster the one with the questionable injury history of Stingers? Or was that Jonathon Allen?
.l
Any chance we see someone like Hasaan leapfrog Foster as the 1st RB off the board?
The only positions the Eagles have shown to value in round 1 are QB, LT, DE, DT, CB, some Guards, and WR. You can’t find any safeties, RB, Linebacker, Centers, or TEs drafted in round 1 by the Eagles in this millennium. By now this common knowledge to all Eagle fans, but what im curious about is seeing the difference in our approach now that we are adding some of Joe Douglas influence to the Equation, and there are some real differences between the Eagles Philosophy (andy/Banner Tree) and the Ravens(Ozzie’s tree).
For example, unlike the Eagles, the Ravens have spent first round picks on Runningback like Jamal Charles. Unlike the Eagles the Ravens have drafted linebackers in the first round (Ray Lewis, CJ Mosley), Ravens have drafted Safeties in the first round. Im not even old enough to remember the last time Eagles spent first round picks on any of those positions. It’s going to be interesting to see if we notice Joe Douglas influence in the draft, or if this draft looks like business as usual?
Looks like we already saw The influence of Joe Douglas with the Eagles looking like they factored in compensatory picks to their offseason approach and that’s a roster building tool that Roseman/Banner never used much in the past. It’s going to be interesting to see if Joe Douglas influence also means The Eagles value certain positions more then we are used to seeing in an Eagles draft.
.
Howie of 5 years ago probably wasn’t confident in his own NFL skin to listen to Joe Douglas. If HOWIE is going to just stick to what he knows, then it’s pretty safe to say that the Eagles are spending their first round pick on a Defensive lineman, a Cornerback or a wide receiver like they always have. But if we see the Eagles spend their first round pick on guys like McCaffrey/Fournette, Rueben Foster, Jamal Adams, Malik Hooker, Hasaan Reddick, then I think that would clearly indicate that Roseman is ready to do things different and allow Joe Douglas to put his imprint on our front office and how it builds a roster.
Jamal Lewis*
Lol good catch
I don’t know if the Eagles like Harris at 14 either but isn’t there reason to believe that the reason he is bad at playing the run is his limited athleticism and particularly as it pertains to his strength and poor showing in the bench press. Also his tendency to overrun ball carriers suggests limited agility and speed. It doesn’t matter if he can rush the passer because teams will just run at him if he can’t defend it. And just how far will a great spin move take him if he doesn’t have the strength to pull off other pass rush moves.
Harris may develop into a solid NFL player but no way he’s BPA at 14. If the iggles trade back he may be an option. But at 14…. no way it’s not labeled a reach pick.
Anyone else getting a sneaky premonition that a stud prospect that we all want is going to drop and get sniped by the saints just like they did cooks before?
I’d tend to agree. Harris would make more sense at 24 than at 14.
I’m curious to know all of your thoughts on John Ross at 14? I would love to see the Eagles grab the young burner and watch him grow alongside Wentz despite his college injury history. He reminds me a lot of Brandin Cooks; in that he’s not a one-trick pony and has many strengths as a receiver.
I’d like him better if we were picking 24. He doesn’t excite me at 14.
https://i.imgflip.com/1nf1w7.jpg
He excites me
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000800363/article/hot-150-gil-brandts-topranked-prospects-for-2017-nfl-draft
(He’s 10)
I respect Gil’s work, but the fragility issue scares me with him in round 1.
Question: what are people hearing in terms of when Sidney Jones is expected to come off the board?
Since we already got a kid I adore in Tim Jernigan, I’d be willing to spend our 3rd round pick on an injured 1st round cornerback Talent.
Are there enough talented corner prospects to push Jones down to the end of round 3? Or is that wishful thinking since Dallas spent an early 2nd on a LB with a much worse injury than Jones achilles tear? I Wluldnt want an injured kid with a top 50 pick. At least trade back a few spots and add a pick if you are going to draft an injured corner in round 2
I can’t fool with him until our conditional 4th.
hear anything about when he is expected to come off the board?
Nothing solid.
Curious to see when someone ends up taking a chance on him compared to The Cowboys spending their early second round pick on a Linebacker who shredded his knee to the extent of nerve damage which Would scare me a lot more than an ACL Tear. Hopefully he falls significantly lower making the dallas pick look even worse
The worst part is, he wouldnt even be the second best draft pick from that draft for the Cowboys..
Taking Harris at 14…………..HATE IT
Round 1 Pick 14: Charles Harris, DE/OLB, Missouri (B-)
Round 2 Pick 11: Tre’Davious White, CB, LSU (A-)
Round 3 Pick 35 (COMP): Taywan Taylor, WR, Western Kentucky (A-)
Round 4 Pick 12: George Kittle, TE, Iowa (A)
Round 4 Pick 32 (COMP): Jordan Morgan, OG, Kutztown (B+)
Round 5 Pick 11: Corn Elder, CB, Miami (Fla.) (A-)
Round 6 Pick 10: Matthew Dayes, RB, NC State (A)
Round 7 Pick 12: Samson Ebukam, OLB, Eastern Washington (B-)
It sucks to be so clueless about a draft class that I can’t play the draft game if I wanted to
Figured you would be there- gave serious consideration to making the trip down. Hope its great- can we identify you by your custom GianGEAGLE jersey?
Lol god no…. I’ll probably rock my lucky Black Celek
I tried to replicate the draft the same way (as best as possible) after getting a fair trade down offer from 14. And, YES, I’m aware Conley isn’t going to be there at 43. I’m way more comfortable with Harris at 24 because I also got Willis. They can both role play this year and step up more next year when Vinny Curry’s overly comfortable rear end makes the ultimate contract sacrifice.
Round 1 Pick 24 (OAK): Charles Harris, DE/OLB, Missouri (B)
Round 2 Pick 11: Gareon Conley, CB, Ohio State (A)
Round 2 Pick 24 (OAK): Jordan Willis, DE, Kansas State (B)
Round 3 Pick 35 (COMP): Taywan Taylor, WR, Western Kentucky (A-)
Round 4 Pick 12: George Kittle, TE, Iowa (A)
Round 4 Pick 32 (COMP): Julie’n Davenport, OT, Bucknell (B+)
Round 5 Pick 11: Corn Elder, CB, Miami (Fla.) (A-)
Round 6 Pick 10: Matthew Dayes, RB, NC State (A)
Round 7 Pick 12: Samson Ebukam, OLB, Eastern Washington (B-)
Gil Brandt top 150
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000800363/article/hot-150-gil-brandts-topranked-prospects-for-2017-nfl-draft
Notice where John ross(10) is vs other WRs. Comp for Corey Davis (31) = Terrance Williams lol
Gil really has a lot of inside info and his top 100 don’t much longer than 100 picks to get drafted most years.
I know Brandt is an OG that has a lot of connections but there’s some questionable rankings that’s mind boggling.
Nolan Nawrocki’s draft guide (the most respected draft guide, period) had Ross as the best receiver in the class. He also had comps for Corey Davis as Jordan Matthews and Terrence Williams. This is not an isolated opinion
Never said I disagree with what comparisons Davis is getting, if you read any of my posts about any of the WRs this year then you would know that I’m not high on any of them.
Also draft gurus are wrong all of the time, I wouldn’t put definitive faith in any of them.
Yeah think i misinterpreted what u said a little bit
There’s a handful of headscrathers but it’s a pretty defensible board.
Adoree over Lamp? I know the value of the position made a difference but that still doesn’t make sense.
If he turns into a Pro Bowl returner right away, that can have a big impact on games. And probably some gadget plays on offense. The main question is can he play slot corner in the NFL — and perhaps some teams have enough good safeties to help out there to clean up some mistakes. Also, some of this ranking is on potential, which Jackson has a lot of — some of the gambling on defense may be correctable. If he turns into Asante Samuel as a CB down the road and DeSean Jackson as a returner very quickly…. he could be much better relative to players at his position than Lamp could be at his. Though Lamp is probably the much safer pick for a long, contributing career.
Don’t know why I remembered this, but … Brandt had Jackson at 26, and was picked at 18. He had Lamp at 41, and … not picked yet after the first round. (Of course he had Taco Charlton and Marlon Humphrey at 42 and 43 respectively, both of whom went in the first.)
Cam Robinson’s ranking on that list is noteworthy.
Eh. Nolan Nawrocki has him at 6
I was thinking along the lines of “he’s right in the 14 zone. There’s reason to believe the Eagles would move Peters if the price is right.” Might the brass be interested in moving Johnson to the left side, drafting Robinson, getting some cap relief and getting a nice late 2nd/early 3rd round pick for Peters?
Not saying I like the idea, but it could be one of those out the blue type moves that Howie has established a reputation for.
I’d love it if we could pull that off
I can’t remember a draft where there were so many red flags with top prospects. It’s a veritable MASH unit. Myles betting walk around in bubble wrap for the next few days.
Yeah, a lot of warts with these guys this years.
世事无常，但这个博客定能永保辉煌！
Kawann Short resigned for 5yr/80mil/45mil guaranteed. I don’t know if we’ll be able to keep Jernigan if he has a great year.
If he has a great year I think we have to. We have a lot of players we can move on from next year. We need to keep our best talent in place.
True but investing almost 150+ million into our DL isn’t going to sit very well with some people.
I like the idea of retaining our stars. Star players win games. They have a big impact. We can go cheap other places. If Jernigan is an imoct player find a way. If he’s JAG, get a cheaper JAG.
Right now I think he costs somewhere between 8-12, unless he gets 10+ sakcs, im not sure it will increase consider he is averaging about 5 sacks per year
He was two gapping most of his career. In this system there certainly is optimism his sacks will increase.
I think he two gapped much less than people think. Still different mentality, but he played a lot on passing downs where he was just attacking gaps.
Last year more, but less before that. And his totals went up last year. There’s reason for optimism that will continue in this system, but of course there are no guarantees.
What he values himself at is also going to be a factor. Of course we would love to get him at that range but assuming that he does get 6-8 sacks that might push him up past 10 million per year.
Apologies, because I know this has been answered many times, but roughly when can we expect the regular season schedule to be rolled out?
This Thursday?
Nolan Nawrocki’s draft guide (the most respected draft guide, period) had Ross as the best receiver in the class. He also had comps for Corey Davis as Jordan Matthews and Terrence Williams. This is not an isolated opinion
Joe Williams – Utah RB – a “Ray Diddy Sleeper” – well I really like his tape. Bottom line, I’ll probably be ok with RBs in the 6th round too. He’s got warts too like a lot of them, but I’m fine with an RB by committee if it means getting better help elsewhere in the mid rounds.
There are probably 10-15 RBs I’d be satisfied with in this draft if not more.
First round, I’m down to wanting DE or CB. No Foster. NO WR, no OJ.
Any of those rb’s in 6th round any better than what’s on the roster(expected roster)?
Most likely hell no. But its about developing another cog in the committee over the course of the season if we go that route.
I don’t mind that at all. With all the ‘rb’ noise, I can only guess the Eagles aren’t happy with those 2 young rb’s. Wish I knew the real reason. Are they THAT bad? I guess that’s why I don’t think Eagles go RB in first couple of rounds. I have no idea who they are thinking with all the red flags(if they are real flags) but seems like Harris makes the most sense?
Well, if Smallwood learned how to pick up a blitz, they’d be happier.
Or had good vision
you have better eyes than I do, so I’ll take your word for it. Any chance he’s coachable? Any chance the coach isn’t a good coach? I don’t know the numbers – was he any better with LJ at tackle? Any chance there’s some growth from last year? I know you don’t know the answers — they are just questions that run through my head…..
RB coach is the easiest position to have. Colleges typically staff it with their most junior offensive coach.
Vision isn’t something that gets better it’s an innate skillset. You can make marginal improvements if the guy is really really smart and understands exactly how things will flow and function (which doesn’t help when things go to shit).
He’s a low end RB2 or more likely a solid RB3 for me. I think he’s best as a one cut slasher on zones.
For me he’s more likely to not make it through his rookie contract than ever be a feature back.
Jonny and I are on the same page on Smallwood
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/2/6/14487398/wendell-smallwood-philadelphia-eagles-rookie-review
as always – thanks.
It seems that you haven’t considered it might be smokescreen? Of course they could go and pick one in round 1 or 2 and then it’s not smokescreens, but it’s totally possible to be that way…
Would you rather another QB go before us and push a player down, or to have one or more of the QB’s still there at 14 and allow us to trade down with a team wanting to get their guy?
Depends on who falls of course.
ideally, two (watson, trubisky) goes early and someone trades up for mahomes. Apparently a couple of the guys late in the draft really like him (texans, chiefs)
no. 1, There is about 10 great talents in this draft outside of the QBs and maybe 2-3 guys will be players the Eagles do not prioritize (safety or RB)
I think the Eagles would include both S and, probably, McCaffrey as possible selections at 14. Agree there are roughly 10, depending on how you feel about injuries and ‘conditions.’ Rather not move down.
yea, but Fournette could go top 10 and not be on the list.
Yeah. Don’t think he’s 1) available at 14 or 2) on our list.
For me there are 4 guys (Myles, Thomas, Lattimore, Allen) at premium positions that I would consider great talents. I’d consider arguments that Hooker being a true center fielder counts as well.
That’s it.
I also would add Fournette, Ross and Adams to the list of great prospects.
McCaffrey, Davis and Howard is also up there for me.
RB, box safeties, and TE aren’t premium positions.
The WR are all a tier below for me.
I know, but if I should just list the 10 greatests players in this draft they would be on my list.
Positional value might push them all down the board.
If Ross didnt have a mile long injury history, I would be going top 10 for sure. Now he can go anywhere from top 10 to 2nd round
This is why I think the whole “Player X is a reach at 14 but not 24” reasoning is out of whack. I think that very few teams will be motivated to pay even normal rates to move up this year. You want to move back to 24 from 14? I’ll give you a 6th. How’s that sound?
Agree 100%… if anything this is a draft where the move up to “get your guy” could be bargain shopping.
They said Landon Collins was just a box safety as well. I think Adams may well turn out to be more than just that.
I think you maximize him running alleys in an under defense. Adams is really good. I do like him. But unless you’ve got Earl Thomas range that completely changes the way the defense plays S just aren’t a premium position.
Fair enough.
The problem is that QB needy teams aren’t really behind us until you get to the Giants as a possibility at 23. So we’re not well positioned for that move since there is no reason the Texans, for example, would feel the need to jump the Colts for a QB. That’s why I’d love a double trade back with the first one being into the early 20s.
The truism nature of statements like “He would be better value at (14 + x) than he is at 14.” and the feeling that you don’t want any player bad enough to fall to the position where we have a draft pick made me wonder if there are still 14 players we would not consider a reach (and what it says about us if there is not).
So, here is what I propose. I will list the top guys according to CBS in separate replies to this comment, and a “Not” reply to each guy. Upvote either in favor of the guy at 14 or not.
See if you have 14 guys, and see if the collective has 14 guys.
First 5 as a block, because duh…
Myles Barrett
Solomon Thomas
Jamal Adams
Jonathan Allen
Marshon Lattimore
Not these guys.
Would: Barrett, Thomas, Adams
Would not: Allen, Lattimore
If Lattimore live streams himself taking bong hits through a gas mask on the screens at the draft (the only way he doesn’t get drafted) and then after pick 13 the mask comes off and it is actually Corn Elder wearing a Lattimore mask under the gas mask you would pass on him because of tight hamstrings? I think you are overthinking this.
Are you saying we can get Corn in the 7th now? That would be sweet
Smoked Sweet Corn. Done.
Aged as well…
If anything, I’m under thinking it. Hamstring issues = no thanks. And I just can’t convince myself of anything beyond that no matter how hard I try.
OJ Howard
Not OJ Howard
Malik Hooker
Not Malik Hooker
Derek Barnett
Not Derek Barnett
Leonard Fournette
Not Leonard Fournette
Reuben Foster
Not Reuben Foster
Count me for no.
Disregard.
PSA: you’re supposed to upvote “Not Reuben Foster”
Is that an option right now?]
Wasn’t on my screen – computer glitch. My bad.
Probably an I-D ten T error.
Dalvin Cook
Not Dalvin Cook
Mitch Trubisky
Not Mitch
I take offense.
Of all people, you should appreciate the difference between Mitchell and Mitch….
One of my pet peeves in life are people with one syllable names that traditionally have two. For example: Barb should be Barbara. Rob should be Robert. Jenny should be Jennifer, etc.
Ha, you’re saying this to a guy who goes by “Mike”, and my Dad’s birth name was literally “Bob”. He hated being incorrectly called “Robert”.
Go figure. I wonder what Nick Foles has to say about this topic. F that – ask our bud Halapoulivaati
I have a friend who’s name is Drew. His parents named him Drew because they didn’t want him to end up with “Andy” as a nickname.
There ya go. His parents should have done a better job of putting him in the right position (to make plays).
Shortened names are fine. I actually really like them. I just like to fall back on the multiple syllables.
(two out of your three examples don’t actually have two syllables)
Now THIS is just trawling for upvotes 😉
Hasson Reddick
Not Hasson
Jabrill Peppers
Not Jabrill Peppers
Split more than usual on this one. If they pick him, it’s because they’ve committed to run a different system on the backend of the defense, in which case he will be a good pick, IMO. Contra Fournette, I think it’s possible they do that. Possible, but highly unlikely. So I guess I’ll vote “yes,” since I won’t be complaining if they make this pick.
Corey Davis
Not Corey
Christian McCaffrey
Not Christian McCaffrey
Deshaun Watson
Not Deshaun Watson
Ryan Ramczyk
Not Ryan Ramczyk
John Ross
Not John Ross
David Njoku
Not David Njoku
Mike Williams
Not Mike
Kevin King
Not Kevin
Malik McDowell
Not Malik McDowell
Taco Charlton
No Taco for me.
I wouldn’t want to draft him either, but for some reason I’d like to hear Merrill Reese say Taco Charlie a few times a game.
(I’m just hungry)
Imagine having to hear about Curry Cox Taco for a few hours each week. You won’t be.
Ok. No lunch for me today.
Indian inspired Rocky Mountain Tacos… Pretty sure those were banned from the menu at Leavenworth a few years back as “inhumane.”
Gareon Conley
Not Gareon Conley
Some other guy
Tra White, Humphrey.
Charles Harris, Tack McKinnley
All 4 of these guys would be fair value at 14?
Yeah I think they are about as likely as Njoku, Ramczyk, Peppers or Watson would be.
Oh, I didn’t list the guys I thought likely, just the guys from a generic top 25 list. I gotta think there would be some reach claims if Tack is the pick, at least.
Marlon Humphrey, Chidobe Awuzie
My vote is just for Harris.
Marlon Humphrey: I know many disagree for a variety of good reasons, but he’s still my pick for best potential pro CB in this class.
Just to be completely clear – this is based on the Eagles drafting the guy, not “pure” value. For example, Fournette – almost everyone agrees the guy is good for certain systems, but doesn’t really fit the Eagles. So I would vote “not Fournette” in this game, right?
Good question. My hypothesis is that there are not 14 players that we will say were fair value at 14 and not label a reach. I guess this is more Eagles-centric value here, so I think your example would be correct.
interesting analysis point. The “sweet spot” draft pick may have
A) less total votes overall due to on the fence people
B) pretty even distribution
Too much approval for a pick will likely be wishful thinking, The other way we feel like would be reaching
Does your hypothesis say to ignore BPA?
Not at all. Best Player Available seems to be based around the idea of finding value and not reaching, right?
That said, BPA seems a little more nuanced than the cut and dried definition, otherwise every team would be working from the same list. Best is subjective in many ways.
It just seems from conversation that the common opinion is that there are some top-10 guys we can’t get and a bunch of guys that would be good in the 20s.
why dont you just quit posting on this forum, its girls like you that give transgenders a bad name
For some much-needed perspective:
http://www.mynfldraft.com/NFL-Draft-Picks/14th-overall/140309/
That bump from 15 up to 14 is legit. #cointoss
What a cheap way to garner up votes.
Does it help if I share that I plan to compile and organize the results for the group?
Upvote for compilation and sharing results. 😉
Yes.
That’s not what ATG’s about – and really, who would care about garnering upvotes? It’s not like they’re cash transferable or anything.
Shit. There goes my retirement plan. I guess I’d better look into that whole 401K thing now.
Look at Mitchell, typing before reading.
Do you have to be so ornery?
I tried ORneRy, but spellcheck corrected.
If we draft Foster or Humprhey, we can send him to take care of spellcheck. Then spellcheck won’t be messing with you no more…
Hey, Im just trying to get the most upvotes I can!
I hear there is $ in data compilation however… Or if you get real good at writing Eagles blogs, you could pretend that you go to the scouting combine every year. I hear some people send money for that type of thing.
I thought that was how many up-votes I needed to reach to retire?
Shhhiiiiiiittttttttttttttttttt…………..
You mean I can’t turn them in for prizes? I’m gonna stop being funny and be more Ornery.
What? How do get your Funyons?
Dude is even upvoting his own posts. SMH
DONT DO THIS GUYS!!! ITS ATG’S PLOY TO GET UPVOTES!!!
@ATG
did you have too many drinks or are you just coming from the dentist?!
Actually, I head to the dentist in a few hours…
It’s always good to arrive wasted at the dentist, mate.
The Patrick Mahomes Kid said that when he was in high school he turned down a $1.6 million dollar contract from a baseball team that was trying to get him to give up his dream of college football. it looks like things are working out for the kid and it won’t be a decision he lives to regret. Certainly can’t question that kids love for football
I have a really good feeling the Eagles are gonna hit it big in this draft.
I hope you are factoring in my new metric – Really Early Acquisition ‘Cuz Hyped In News Especially Sports Stuff- in your feeling. REACHINESS is a real concern.
Acronym of the year.
after Chip……. only way is up.
The Eagles have their wish list of 5 players?
Harris Barnett Conley Mccaffrey Ross
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/4/17/15324874/nfl-draft-rumors-eagles-first-round-john-ross-christian-mccaffrey-derek-barnett-charles-harris-pick
How does Gowton fit so many people with such large shoes into that tiny car of his?
Bucs are expected to sign on for Hard Knocks this year.
, kill me now. It’s going to be filled with over the top, Cheesy, Jameis WInston forced preacher sermon style QB leadership
Greedy Patriots signed Bills RB MIKE Gillislee to an offer sheet. buffalo needs to step up and keep Him from going to Pats
With Dion Lewis, Rex Burkhead, and James White already… wtf?
Lewis is only under contract for 2017- next year he’s an unrestricted free agent.
Same with Burkhead.
Same with White.
White and Lewis had injuries last year… you need depth.
He will spell the official end for LaGarrette.
..
Isn’t that damn division sick of seeing the pats steal their weapons, turn them into Probowlers and use them back against them on their way to Championships? Apparently like the Chris Hogan contract the Pats structured this in a way that it will be hard for the Bills to match
..
brady needs to hurry up an retire already
Celek took a 1mil pay cut
BG says “Vinny Curry looks lean and is ready to take that leap that we have all been waiting for and that he’s been waiting for”….. That would be great, could prove to be lip service, but at least this is coming from a guy who was in a similar position as Vinny but who eventually broke thru to that next level, hopefully he really does see that in Vinny’s immediate future
One year, they should all get together and agree to trash each just to have fun with the media.
BG – “Vinny is looking weaker and slower – I didn’t know that was possible.”
QB2 – “They had to alter the doorway into the locker room so that Carson can fit his head through.”
Beau – “You know how sometimes fat guys have the nickname Slim? Yep, Fletcher Cox.”
Kielce – “Man – Doug Pederson? And here I thought Chip was an ass.”
Random Scout – “Joe Douglas has a saying – Howie gunna screw us today?”
Meanwhile they could sign and cut anyone they want because the reporters would be punching each other to get the next dirt.
Im always pro chaos. Be funny to see how much the beat reporters and sports radio overreacts to it
Or start answering questions that weren’t even asked.
My favorite color is blue.
Last night I tried Indian inspired Rocky Mountain Tacos. Dang, that was a mistake.
The most important article of clothing on a first date is a nice belt. Women pay attention to detail, don’t have some worn out old belt or something cheap.
Fresh air. I always breath the freshest air I can find.
Then they could use the media reaction to manufacture an “us against the world” thing:
“No one believed in us, everyone said we weren’t a team,” etc.
Vinny Curry is the one who needs to take a pay cut
Matt Miller says a GM told him that Sidney Jones is expected to fall to mid round 3. be great to see him on the board in round 3
What do Jernigan and Jones have to do with each other? And wouldn’t it depend on medical reports? You seem to be assuming he’s highly likely to make a full recovery.
Taywan Taylor came in for a visit today. He’s a day 2 WR that could play outside or the slot. He’s pretty good and can be better for whatever scheme Doug wants than Matthews would be.
Who does he compare to currently in the NFL?
Stefon Diggs
Athletically similar to Greg Jennings. My comp is Randall Cobb
The results before I head off to the dentist. Feel free to vote below if you didn’t get a chance.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/92bf9176a6f74d57fcd9d0abc9303fda6667669a9bc4a970e763e32e6dcda38d.png
fantastic work . . .
and fun, too.
I like that there are exactly 13 players that the (simple) majority of us want and we have the 14th pick.
That the the most Philly fan thing in the universe.
Well a couple QBs will go top 14 so we are good 🙂
I thought that was just about perfect.
I really like your sweet spot concept. The intersection of the guyscwe want but can’t get and the guyscwe can get but don’t all want is probably the right place to be looking.
If a player was good to have value at pick 14, then 13 other teams wouldn’t have passed on him.
The good news is that this philosophy works for whoever the Eagles draft, allowing me to be disappointed no matter what the outcome.
If we were drafting 13th, there would be 12 players with a majority of votes. So unless we are drafting 1st overall, or at least 2nd behind the Browns, we aren’t likely to be happy. (And even then may complain that it’s a down year for the top over talent.)
I don’t know about you guys, but I want that Jonathan Adams guy. I hear he’s the rare hybrid of a D-lineman and a safety
Very versatile player.
(Oops.)
One polite advise from me:
Have a root canal without Anastasia from Anastasia and Eagles will trade for CB Kevin Johnson from the Titans today.
Sorry, no root canal, no cavities.
I did have a moment though: as I stared at the ceiling, awkwardly avoiding looking at the hygentist as she looked into my mouth, I imagined her reaction if I instead glared at her eyes the entire time. I almost burst out laughing, which would also have been awkward.
LOL! I had to go in for a pee test at work some years back & my best buddy dared me to stare at the guy who observes & not break eye contact the whole time. Unbelievably difficult thing to do but indescribably hilarious results. I’m a solid foot taller & wider than the guy too which made it all the weirder. LMFAO
“% approve” should be % disapprove
Also I’d be down for Cam Robinson
Thanks
Good call. I forgot I flipped the formula and didn’t correct the heading.
PRobably one of the funniest and smartest draft board my eyes have ever seen. Well done, sir.
Hall of Fame post.
Based on Gil Brandt’s top 150… My personal draft nightmare scenario goes something like this: Eagles stay put at 14 and draft McCaffrey, and by the time they pick again at 43 all of the top 8 corners are gone.
A round 2 Lamp or Taco might calm me down a bit if that happened.
I don’t think CM will be available at 14. If he is, that’s a dream scenario.
I’m hoping for Charles Harris DE (I ditched Derek Barnett for Harris in this scheme)
or John Ross, Reuben Foster, Corey Davis, Gareon Conley
Foster and Ross might both be there.
“We need more running backs for our running back by committee approach” still doesn’t sound like a good use of the most scarce resource that you can use to build a team.
Maybe, but you also immediately pick up a slot WR. His utilization will be very high on a WCO
Are you planning to get something for Jordan Matthews with this move?
Possibly a very late round pick. Jordan Matthews is the opposite of CM. CM is someone you’d want in a clutch situation. He craves the competition and looks comfortable carrying a team. Jordan Matthews couldn’t catch a roll of toiler paper if it was an important third down.
The toilet paper would be more crucial on down #2.
Because he’ll shit the bed on down 3?
Your love of McCaffrey comes into clearer focus through the lens of your need to move on without Matthews.
I’ve been frustrated way too much by Matthews at this point to care if he stays. He’s just a guy.
Gimme someone who can catch a football and doesn’t disappear in clutch moments.
McCaffrey is my guilty pleasure as well. Likely, the fact that I am almost certain we don’t take him makes that easier to rationalize.
We refer to that as the cursed octagon nightmare in the industry.
And I also find that a round of two tacos by the lamp make a good snack after a nightmare…as long as you don’t have to cook or do any mixon.
Let’s get down to brass tacks here… are we talking chicken, pork, beef, or chorizo tacos?
Chicken is for people who want to pretend they are eating tacos to be healthy. The rest are all in play for supper round 2, as is fish.
No brass tacks though, that sounds like another nightmare waiting to happen.
Idk what chicken tacos you eat, but mine are heavily seasoned with chipotle, cumin, garlic, salt, and lime. Served on a corn tortilla with with black beans, (more) corn, sauteed onion, tomato, hot sauce, and at least 3 tablespoons of sour cream. lol
It takes a pretty special fish taco to get me interested…
What’s so great about the top 8 CBs compared to say top 10? The thing is there are CBs better for press man to man and CBs better for off coverage and zone so teams could have different boards. Trying to make you feel better …
My guys at Novacare inform me that Foster has been knocked down to a third round grade. Also hearing that the Eagles do not like Williams at 14 and won’t consider him there.
Mike Williams?
Yea. They see him as another DGB. Just a big fast guy with bad hands.
Lol, guess they’ve given up on DGB then.
You haven’t?
Depends on what’s being expected. I still believe he can carve out a particular niche as a redzone threat but not really anything more
He would make a good red zone threat if he could learn how to out jump 5’10” CBs for the ball.
Hearing anything else from Novacare?
Williams makes spectacular catches and he’s not known as a fast WR. He’s a lot like Alshon. He’ll drop some easy ones but so does Alshon.
So did T.O.
So the NFL leaks info to a guy who makes “First” posts? Don’t know what these hacks waste time nurturing sources, inside info is easy.
Most media guys read the tea leaves and make things up. If they hit, they retweet their prediction. If they miss, no one remembers.
On the flip side, don’t you think it’s possible that there exists an eagles fan on a message board (who may or may not make ‘First’ posts) who also knows people who work for the team?
Eagles employ lots of people.
I hope for your friends’ sake they don’t employ anyone who scans fan media for signs of leaks and then investigates the source or your friends might be ex employees (and ex friends).
The street cred might not be worth the risk.
Street cred passes for actual currency at family dollar.
No, but upvotes do…
Honestly I don’t care what happens to Chris
McPhearson? Ha. Or is that your pet name for the standford running back that you speak of in your sleep?
How about the concept that real people who actually are connected wouldn’t leak stuff because they are professionals? It would take idiots for people who work at Novacare and are in the know to not guard that info.
I just think the kind of guy who makes “First” posts may not realize his friends don’t know as much as they claim to know.
So Roseman is leaking the true info to lots of Eagles employees?
Oh, yeah. The big board is actually in the employee lunch room. Mark from accounting is a riot. He made a fake draft card with Bill’s sister’s name on it and listed her as a tight end, but gave her a 5th round grade. Bill lost his mind and smacked his green koolaid right off the table
Janitors. Wastebaskets.
This is easy to track down. Just look for an Eagles employee who has reason to hate Mike Mayock. Then connect the dots…
In all fairness Mike Mayock is genuinely terrible at what he does.
This is starting to get an “Ace Ventura”/Ray Finkle vibe…
golf clap
“If you’re not first you’re last” – the wise Ricky Bobby.
si, Ricardo Roberto es muy sabio.
Also Vince Lombardi.
I love the idea that teams have tighter security than the DNC with their draft info (save Dallas) but they’ll glad drop info to some schmo rando.
Cool insight .. i not hoping for Williams at all ..but still do want Corey D .. what s the feeling on agholar ? (Real question ..but probably too obvious the answer )
Please tell my those guys never tell you to harm someone. People who hear voices do worry me a bit
General NFL question:
Given the stank of massive bust coming off of Trubisky and the massive flaws in Watson / Mahomes / Kizer as NFL passers and readers of D; any of the really bad teams want to go full Process and tank for a real NFL QB like Rosen or Darnold next year?
Yes, the lolskins when they trade Cousins to the 49ers and don’t draft his replacement.
All they’re going to get for Cousins is pick 34. San Fran can just tamper their way to an easy signing of Cousins in 2018 if Was-team wants to be stubborn and insist they want pick 2.
I think that’s a steal for the skins.
Just curious because I don’t follow college football closely, what are the massive flaws of Watson? He looked really good the times I saw him play and seems to have the intangibles to play big when he is under the most pressure.
Probably because it doesn’t take much to tank when you start with a crappy team with no QB. There are built-in easy situations. It’s not like basketball where you are going to play a bunch of games and some naturally against great and some against crappy teams. It’s much easier to tank in football if you really are gonna suck for luck for example.
I don’t believe professional athletes “tank”in order for their teams to draft their replacements.
https://youtu.be/cQCaWuY7jCk?t=38
His parents are very very smart.
Howard fascinates me as a possible Eagle. I really dig the talent, but don’t know if he’d be there at 14 of if they’d think TE was worth that slot.
I didn’t think it was worth drafting a TE this high too a few months ago since they usually don’t put up the production at the next level. Then I watched the tape, did some research, and he did what he had to do to cement himself as one of the best players in the draft.
Fast forward a little to FA, we signed Alshon and Smith. Lets say that only Alshon pans out. So now I’m thinking of the bigger picture. No one is afraid of Ertz, Matthews, and Agholor. DGB and Aghs still could be a threat if they ever put it together (not likely). Matthews might get traded but I’m sure we would draft his replacement. So who’s going to be able to compliment Alshon and take the load off of him?
I don’t think Davis or Williams will command too much respect at the next level. Ross could just due to his speed but he’s made out of glass. None of those guys seem like a match up nightmare like Howard to me. Howard is too fast for most safeties, too big for CBs, and too strong to arm tackle, He could block at the next level but he’s going to have some growing pains. At least he won’t be as useless as Ertz was as a blocker when he started out in the league.
God, now you are making me really want to trade up for him.
I actually am optimistic that Jefferey and Smith can pan out. And for that matter, I do think that Davis can be a serious force – but his ceiling would be a very good to great WR, not a match-up nightmare.
I don’t see having him as an extra TE is unbalanced or unnatural. I mean, Celek is going to retire and if you look at it, how many top end TEs stay healthy all the time. I think having him and Ertz could be amazing.
Him and Davis are my only offensive players who I basically droll over in this draft – aside from Mixon on the field. We’ll have to see what happens, but I would not think twice about drafting Howard.
I don’t know about Smith, he seems like he has a little gas left but then again he played on that awful niners team. Exactly, what we have already at TE should not discourage us from taking Howard. With the exception of Ertz, none of them are guaranteed to be here beyond 2018.
How Howard would be used explained by guys much smarter than I am.
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/videos/videos/Film-Room-Why-Is-OJ-Howard-So-Enticing/04645562-1d96-45a8-be60-e3ebe08ebb00
We have no clue when we’re going to pick in the top 15 again so I hope Howie, Doug, and Joe make the most out of it.
Well put.
That weight flipping kicks the hell out of the Juggs machine.
So the draft had to be at the art museum but they block off the iconic Rocky steps with the stage. Get your shit together please NFL.
The carpet-bomb-the-midsection draft
(warning: only “slightly” realistic)
Round 1 Pick 18 (TENN): Jamal Adams, SS, LSU (A+)
Round 2 Pick 21 (DET): Tre’Davious White, CB, LSU (A)
Round 3 Pick 3 (CHI): Jordan Willis, DE, Kansas State (A)
Round 3 Pick 7 (LAC): Quincy Wilson, CB, Florida (A)
Round 3 Pick 16 (IND): Alex Anzalone, OLB, Florida (B+)
Round 3 Pick 18 (DEN): Gerald Everett, TE, South Alabama (A+)
Round 3 Pick 21 (DET): Zay Jones, WR, East Carolina (A)
Round 3 Pick 35 (COMP): Marcus Maye, FS, Florida (A)
Round 4 Pick 4 (CHI): DeMarcus Walker, DE, Florida State (A)
Round 4 Pick 12: Samaje Perine, RB, Oklahoma (A-)
Round 4 Pick 32 (COMP): Nathan Peterman, QB, Pittsburgh (A+)
Round 5 Pick 11: Jermaine Eluemunor, OG, Texas A&M (B)
Round 6 Pick 10: Stevie Tu’ikolovatu, DT, Southern California (A-)
Is “not at all” a synonym for slightly?