The Rookie CBs
Posted: May 4th, 2017 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 141 Comments »Sidney Jones is the hotter topic, but Rasul Douglas is a good player in his own right. And he is more likely to help out this season.
If you want to get a better feel for his game, watch this video. You aren’t going to see an elite athlete or dynamic cover guy. You will see a big CB who has a good skill set and who can play in the NFL. Douglas shows his ability to break on the ball. You can see his physicality. He has a couple of good tackles in the game, something you need in Jim Schwartz’s scheme. Douglas gives up some catches, but he makes the receivers work for them.
He’s not going to be a shutdown corner in the NFL, but he can cover well, make plays on the ball and tackle when there is a runner/receiver in his area. And he’s got the potential to get better. More reps and NFL coaching will help his game develop.
*****
Here is an SI story on Sidney Jones’ draft day(s) experience.
He’s got a chip on his shoulder and will want to prove all the doubters and teams that passed him over to be wrong. Can’t wait to see what this young man can do, whether that is in 6 months or a year from now. The Eagles have needed a big time talent at CB. Jones is that guy.
The article references a great play vs USC from 2015. Here’s that game. You do love a CB who anticipates a screen play, jumps it and picks off the pass in heavy traffic. We know he can run and cover. The fact he’s smart and works his butt off in the film room is a huge bonus. That’s NFL type stuff.
_
I’m over my temporary distaste for Howie that came from the articles about wanting McCaffery and Cook. I’ve come full circle to decide that it’s genius (until further notice) to show interest in top running backs going into the combine and with visits, then “leak” that the team is planning to draft one of these guys to reports and janitors and Novacare, and follow it all up by feigning defeat in the national media that the Vikings got the drop on the Eagles when they traded up for Cook.
Howie’s playing rope a dope with the other GMs, and already setting them up to assume he will target a 1st round running back in 2018. Genius… and I can’t believe I didn’t see it sooner.
If McCaffrey was there at 14, they would have taken him over Barnett all day long.
Doubtful. He’d have been in consideration but I don’t think they’d take him over Barnett
I’m really intrigued by McCaffery, but glad we don’t have him.
……..
So Stott’s source was actually an intentional Howie leak and both he and Stott were merely pawns in Howie’s elaborate multi-tiered chess game?
Having shared this, I fear for you safety. You know what happened to that Morton guy that used to point out all of Howie’s shortcomings?
Right, neither does anyone else.
Oh man, is he claiming a “source?” Ha! Reminds me of OregonDucker claiming he had one during the Chip years, and people believing him just because he had “Oregon” in his user name…
Way to stick to your convictions Mac!
I appreciate that for a number of reasons.
I don’t mean to pick on you, Tommy, but please stop with the “chip on the shoulder” jibberish. I am so tired of that term and what it implies. Talent and guts is what wins out. Every player in the NFL had better play angry. It’s not a friendly tussle.
Guts… isnt that almost what a chip on the shoulder is or implies?
Good question, Will. My sense is that “chip on the shoulder” is because of some slight. In the NFL, it seems like it’s because someone was passed over and drafted in a later round. I get that “out to prove them wrong” might be a motivator, but I think it’s way overused and overrated.
A lot of these guys are hyper competitive to a fault with large egos. Many of them don’t let perceived slights go so easily.
Have you tried googling “chip on his shoulder” and NFL draft? No joke, it looks like half of this year’s prospects might be playing with one…
To me a perfect example of “chip on the shoulder” is Steve Smith (Ravens). To say everyone should play like that guy is one thing, but we know they don’t. I see a theme with this draft that I really haven’t noticed before. These guys play angry and seem to feel like they BELONG in the league, not just “happy to be here” type guys. Just my opinion. I don’t think Tommy is trying to sell us by using that term.
Tom Brady is the ultimate example, I think.
Sounds like you’ve got a chip on your shoulder about players having a chip on their shoulder… well, I’m here to let you know that I’ve got a chip on my shoulder about folks who have a chip on their shoulder about players who have a chip on their shoulder.
That really grinds my gears.
Here’s a Pawtucket Patriot Ale that the erst while coach of which thee speaketh is chip himself or a paterno or his pal with the white hair
Methinks that maybe you should change your user name to Chip, Mac. My vivid imagination is now kicking in as I picture our erstwhile coach sitting in miniature on all the players’ shoulders. Of course, his schtick didn’t work. There must be some subliminal message there.
I’ve still got a chip on my shoulder about what chip did with our roster .. chip tossed our roster over his shoulder likes it was Paterno putting DNOYC
I agree, it’s so played out and just lazy writing. Everyone knows it’s swagger that makes all the difference.
Grit can be very important too, especially for running backs like Christian McCaffery or Mike Alstott.
I don’t want any of your nasty grits in my chips.
Are your chips on your shoulder ?
Easy access shoulder pouch for chips. It’s the bestest.
almost as important as a ‘blue collar mentality, ‘scrappiness’ and being a true lunchpail guy”
Don’t forget high motor
play the game the right way is a MUST in my book.
Grit is very important for unathletic white guy role models with great futures as broadcasters or product endorsers.
This reminds me of the eternal debate: which is more important, piss or vinegar?
Vinegar. Because if you have it, you can make piss.
So many don’t though. It’s a pretty unique description of a guy. You immediately get a sense of the player when that is said of them. For instance Beau Allen plays as hard as anyone I have ever seen, but I wouldn’t use that as a descriptor for him.
We see articles about guys with “chips on their shoulders” every year. That was how they described Mills’ response after he fell to the 7th. Imagine how bad he would have been without that chip!
Heck, we got TWO “chip-shoulder” guys on the Eagles this year! The QB they signed the other day as has had a bunch of articles about HIS chip after not getting drafted…
I didnt like Douglas pick at first. I had hoped our first CB(ready to play) would be someone like Quincy Wilson.
Jones looks like a CB who is going to take the ball away from QBs. I love that.
You do realize that Quincy Wilson ran in the mid 4.5s and isn’t as long as Rasul Douglas.
Is that how rate draft picks? Combine numbers.? Wilson is much better prospect than Douglas.
No that’s not how I rate prospects, everyone states that Douglas is to slow but runs .04 slower than Wilson. I’m not sure where you get Wilson is a much better prospect. He wasn’t even covering the opposing teams top receivers and had better safety play behind him.
If you like Douglas better that’s fine. I think both Wilson and tabor were/are Superior prospects.
The NFL agree, but we picked Jones over Wilson and Tabor, not Douglas over them. (Douglas was picked around 50 picks later than Wilson)
That’s why my original comment was about preferring Quincy Wilson or Tabor as our first CB( that would be ready to play) over Douglas initially during the draft.
Drafting Jones in the second obviously changed how things would play out. In no pre draft scenario did I think Rasul Douglas would be our first starting CB. That’s all I really meant. Looking at the draft in its entirety, after the fact, its makes more sense how it all played out.
On the first clip at 3:03, watch how the WR tries a double but he doesn’t bite. I wonder if OK coaching staff tried to use the double move against Douglas because he is a gambler.
On the 2nd clip at :24, looks like our boy Sidney bit the cheese…
You shut your dirty mouth! NO ONE talks about Sid like that.
*whore mouth. Fixed it for you
Dat int on da screen by S. Jones doe…. How absolutely incredible would it be to have a guy like that on the Eagles at cb?
Hell of a game by Jones. Not so much for Rasul.
Well there goes another big back from the birds. (jk)
But I was kind of sort of rooting for Bonnett to be the FB – pending Carson’s approval of course…
may the 4th, losers
May the 4th be with you
..
A football comment can kill the most interesting baseball conversation in stant lee
Douglas seem to be coached into giving up way too much cushion in these plays. Its like he begins backpedalling already before the snap, and it gives him problems on intermediate routes. Obviously that can be corrected, but it leaves you wondering how concerned his old coaches were with his ability to turn and run in phase. Hm. Something to look out for in camp I suppose. Schwartz will be asking him to play up on the line.
Most of the time he had no high help. Basically Seattle D without Thomas. Guy is raw, coach probably told him to keep it in front, punish the receivers. Played to his strengths, but how he takes to coaching is definitely going to determine his ceiling.
That is interesting because I already like him better than Byron Maxwell..
See my post above.
That’s basically how our corners played last year, so he’ll fit right in.
It’s interesting. The Douglas era means college production matters more. This has led to people questioning whether guys like Barnett, Jones, and Pumphrey can continue to produce at the higher level. The ability to study tape, work hard, and play hard all matter just as much at the pro level. Sure, a hard working athlete beats a plugger. But a hard working solid athlete beats the hell out of DGB. There are no guarantees in the draft, but it’s ridiculous to discount brains or motor as being any less important to success.
You can motivate a talented player but you can’t give a poor athlete a new body.
100% of 90% is better than 75% of 100%. I did the math. 😉
For the most part these guys are close in talent level. The ability to maximize what you have is underrated. Not saying athleticism doesn’t count, but i do disagree with people discounting brains and motor.
0% of anything is 0%.
According to who? Your logic makes more sense at the amateur levels and not the cream of the crop like in the NFL. Most of these hard working and below-average to average athletes are dime a dozen on the streets. The ones who make it are the ones who have to reinvent their game. They are the outlier not the norm.
Yeah, generalizations like we both are making don’t really achieve much. I wouldn’t call Barnett a dime a dozen athlete. Guys like Sherman are great at least as much due to intellect as athleticism. DGB is an outstanding athlete, but I’ll take a smart, hard worker with less athleticism, like Reggie Wayne or Steve Smith, over him any day.
I’ve seen this argument way too many times. It’s always the definition of talent that makes it difficult. I believe talent is the whole package and not just parts of the package. DGB could still be a good player, is it likely that he will be one without the motivation? Probably not since ceilings mean nothing if you don’t try to reach it. However if I have to bet on Barnett becoming an athlete like Jadeveon Clowney/Khalil Mack or DGB becoming a good player then I’m going to bet on DGB.
Wayne and Smith were much more athletic than you think they are.
What if you are keeping the field level, though? If you are betting on Barrett or DGB becoming a good player, who you got?
C. Both because I don’t care since it benefits the team.
Ifanyi Momah
No doubt, but neither compared to DGB. Barnett may not become Clowney, but he can easily be a better DE than say Harris (not to pick on Harris). My point was somewhat similar to yours, but with a different emphasis. Barnett’s motor and study of the game will help him succeed in the pros, but I’ve seen commentary that almost dismissed them as negative attributes. That’s silly.
A 4.59 player with instincts is better than a 4.4 player with none (Humphreys).
True, but Humphrey does have drive. He’s 20, and clearly enjoys the game. That counts for something. So many athletes getting into the game in the skill positions today, coming over from basketball. Lot of them are not football players.
1. If you are looking at a 20-year old given the opportunity to be a god among his peers by playing a game and thinking he would be good if only he had motivation, you are choosing a tough row to hoe.
2. You sure as hell can. Look at Dawk, at the army ranger that is now in Pitt, at McCalister hopefully, at tons of guys that got professional trainers, diet, and equipment and had a new body in a year. Graham did it for every coach we brought in.
1. The brain is a weird thing. Some guys just think they’re the best even though they’re clearly not. Teez Tabor for example.
2. Those guys were never bad athletes. Jonathan Banks and Jarvis Jones come to mind in terms of terrible athleticism for their position.
I get the impression that most of the fans are happy about the jones pick where as our media hates it which I find silly because most of us would be willing to trade our second round pick for a top 15 pick in the following draft which is what we did drafting this kid. Not many people thought jones would still be available at #20. I would trade our second for an extra first in next years draft every single year If I could. I can’t think of many 20yr olds who have had their careers ruined by an achilles tear (recent history). I don’t think he would have still been available at #99 so how I could be upset with spending our 2nd on him. I hear some media say we could have spent our second on Quincy or Tabor as if there is no difference between a top 15 prosoect and a second rounder corner. Really don’t get our local old media rational when it comes to what to me seems like a no brainer worth while investment LongTerm, and long term thinking should trump short term thinking for where we are right now in the building process.
Quincy ran in the mid 4.5s and everyone is clamoring for him, but Douglas ran 4.59 is longer with great ball skills and he’s to slow
Completely agree with this. If we were contenders this year, then a “win now” pick would have made more sense. At best we are just hoping to get that new QB guy playoff experience – that’s my wish for the season. Jones is a long-term, build a talented team pick. My favorite pick of the draft. Build through the draft.
I like the Jones pick, and I saw Howie make that comparison of it’s like we traded our 2nd for a top-15 pick next year. Howie is twisting things a bit there. Presumably that top-15 pick would not be used on a player with the health question marks of Jones.
So, I like the pick, I like the strategy, I don’t particularly like the sales pitch.
Hey Geagle, remind us about when…”it’s pretty cool when your draft board lines up with the Eagles and they pick they player you slotted for them. Marcus Smith is a beast, he’s a great pick for them and will be a Pro Bowl LB in a couple of years”.
Even after his miserable rookie season you were convinced he was still going to be a Pro Bowl LB for them.
You wannabe GMs are hilarious….maybe you can be the first person to hold NBA and NFL GM positions simultaneously.
I would have drafted OJ Howard and Tanoh Kpassagnon in the 1st and 2nd. I’m cool with the Douglas and Hollins pick in the 3rd and 4th round. I’m warming up to Pumphrey. I don’t put much stock into 5-7th rounders. I’ll be happy if they can be quality reserves.
Howard is interesting at 14 for sure. Tanoh is reach-y in round two, especially because we’re a 4-3 team and he’s probably a 3-4 DE only.
Wait. What was that? Did Jones do that stupid Ezekiel Elliot feed me motion after getting the pick?
He don’t own that.
Nobody should; it’s stupid.
Well that, and we literally all eat. It’s the most generic thing about our uh… species. Hardly unique.
And even if you’re going to say he made a mistake in college, hell, Smallwood had that Philly tweet…
Just went from favorite pick (see below) to most hated pick. He needs to drop that now. Stick to pantomiming weapons like archery and axes if you need to celebrate. No Cowboy shit round here.
One of the dumbest celebrations out there.
Which begs the questions, whom is to feed the cornerback and how?
Eli Manning?
donnel pumphrey uses that too lol
It may have been a genuine cry for help. Dude played in the 170s.
https://twitter.com/TorreySmithWR/status/860288744414425089
Torrey Smith is the man. The whole Ball family can F off.
The sons and the mom seem ok. Can’t hold the whole family responsible for one D bag.
1. That Douglas tape was the most average game tape I think I have ever seen. I am left without a single positive or negative impression.
2. I wish someone would have pointed out how scrawny Jones is. Why didn’t someone mention that earlier? The guy could get run over by a D3 FB.
Would it make you feel better if I said Jones played closer to Pumphrey’s weight?
“1. That Douglas tape was the most average game tape I think I have ever seen. I am left without a single positive or negative impression.”
So…you’re saying he’s an improvement over what we’ve had the past couple years?
Well played.
And that’s a college player making NFL players look inferior!
By miles, yes.
D3FB, You gonna’ let him talk like that?
Ha, but didn’t D3FB make that same point about Jones?
D3FB was an OL.
Sorry, I was driving up to Reading to murder ATG.
I’m 6’1 310. I would seriously hope I could truck Sidney Jones.
So you could be the Eagles FB now with Allen injured?
God no.
No amount of money could convince me to ever run another conditioning test.
agreed. I hope it was game planning to have him play off the ball so much. This is where the #1 pick may be so important. The better the rush, the better Douglas will be.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/05/03/nfl-draft-2017-sidney-jones-philadelphia-eagles
Here you find several shots of just how skinny he is. My guess is he will bulk up as he gets his “man strength” in
I think this a very good draft.
we got exactly what we needed and i think every player will make the team.
My main concern is that Douglas and Gibson are going to siphon off some of Barrett’s ROTY votes.
Barnett? Nah, ROTY is McAlister.
Is he eligible after red-shirting?
No clue, I’m just trained to think that way… Dario, Simmons, Embid conversations…
lol thats a great concern to have
I lean towards it being a solid draft. Agree that there is a good chance that all will make the team. In those terms it is a sucess. However I don’t think they maximize the talent they could have added to this team. I question Barnett, an injured Jones, and Pumphrey as BPA.
In a vacuum it’s a good draft (which is what really matters), but in context I feel the could have done a better job. Solid B/B- with lots of contributors, but maybe no stars (unless Jones gets back to 100%).
what RB do u think was better?
i though the sec samje perine came off the board the best option were gone, and i didnt watch anything on pumphrey before the draft, i didnt think we draft a smaller RB (and i LOVE smaller RBs, its my thing!! lol) after watching all game tape available to me through the internet, man i see damn good RB.
To me Dalvin Cook was the ideal fit for this offense. I’m guessing they needed to give up their 3rd and didn’t want to miss out on RD.
I really liked Aaron Jones who went later than Pumphrey. I liked Gallman too.
Barnett is okay. He is someone that will get 6-8 sacks/year during his prime. Sidney Jones is the guy I’m excited about, I think he has a shot at being an probowler
We can predict his career average stats?
Seriously.
Guys who get paid millions of dollars to make these predictions professionally get them wrong half the time, but some dude here knows exactly how a player is going to turn out? Ugh. The Internet, amirite?
Half?
http://www.dailynorseman.com/2017/4/12/15274148/most-nfl-draft-picks-are-busts
idk, i think hes gonna be a stud now that oive watched a lot more of him.
the game where he broke reggies record was inspiring. barnett battled all game, making plays in the backfield, all he needed was one sack.. took in to the final Q to get it, but he was close so many times all game, and to get it he lined up on the other side and BOOM!! got him!! the celebration actually gave me chills! It was a huge moment, really liked how tied together forever he is with reggie white.
i think hell be better than the 1st pick garret, garret has the athletic ability but not the technique. Barnett has the technique hes more ready for NFL than garrett IMO
On Rasul – Listening to BGN podcast and they are saying that:
a: Douglas was most definitely asked to play off coverage, read, and then react at WV – their 3-3-5
and
b: “you don’t have to touch a guy or make contact to play press” – meaning you can cause the guy to go inside/outside and then use that to your advantage in misdirecting his route.
There are plenty on this board who can correct me if any of that’s wrong – but it’s their words, not mine.
To me that confirms some things and helps put his tape into context.
True. For example if you are playing a “man press” the defender wants to leverage his WR to the boundary to help him defend against the pass. On the other hand if they defense is in a cover 2, the CB will leverage the WR to the inside where he knows he has help. You don’t necessarily have to touch the guy, just try to use your body position to influence the route one way or the other.
Yeah, it’s good to get confirmation on that. It makes a lot of sense, but it gives context to how I feel like many media, even broadcasters tend to use language that makes it sound like press means “maul the WR at the LOS”, and that’s it.
Correct. You can press without jamming.
Do you think the media accurately conveys this to “lay” fans?
I don’t think 95% of fans give a shit.
Good point.
Just a random thought on the RB situation:
I like Pumphrey’s elusiveness, vision, and deceptive strength. Watching his game film I was surprised to see him break so many tackles. He’s also not afraid to run between the tackles and initiate contact. He could create a major mismatch if we line him up in the slot too as a receiver.
However, I think I’m more pessimistic than optimistic with him. Obviously there are many examples of smaller RBs being highly productive in the NFL. Warrick Dunn, BWest, Charlie Garner and Sproles immediately spring to mind. But even BWest, Garner, and Sproles were much thicker than Pumphrey. Dunn had world class sprinter’s speed (ran a 10.3 for FSU).
His low weight does scare me as very few RB’s less than 185 have had much success in the NFL over the past 20 years or so. For every Warrick Dunn, there are several Noel Devine’s, Jacquizz Roger’s, and Garrett Wolfe’s. Older heads may recall Troy Davis (back to back 2,000 yard runner) from Iowa State who flamed out in the NFL. All these guys were small, but extremely productive college RB’s who many thought would flourish in the NFL. Not so.
I’m certainly not expecting Pumphrey to be the second coming of BWest, let alone Charlie Garner. However, if the argument I often hear around here and other places is that “a RB taken in the 1st RD better be a legit Pro-bowl/franchise back”, then shouldn’t we have high expectations for a mid-round pick too? My fear is that he’s just going to be a marginal RB who’s not going to give us much more than a guy like Smallwood will. I sincerely hope I’m proven wrong though.
Here is to hoping Smallwood can get It going
I remember when we drafted Shady and everyone wanted the guy Indy took. Some guy on EMB (or maybe even here.. don’t think I had found this place yet.. maybe..) referenced a really cool article. Basically came to the conclusion that the only college RB stat that could be used to predict NFL success with any reliability was touchdowns.
The article was really convincing. Shady’s touchdowns were very impressive from college. I was immediately hyped for him. Well I just checked Donnel in that area after reading your comment.
I’m excited.
Remember when all the hype was about NOshawn and not LEsean?
I think we are going to see the run game open up this year thanks to having better WRs. While it would be nice to have a number 1 back that can go all 3 downs, I think the smurf rotation will be effective. They have a good line to run behind. Not sure how Pumphrey will be in pass protection. That will be key.
Is Jaylon Smith or Sidney Jones injury worse?
Smith has nerve damage correct?
…most people seemed 50/50 on that pick last year also.
Smith’s is/was worse. Nerves can be fickle whores.
Smith sounded waaaaaay worse to me. Possibly will have to wear a brace that will help move his leg where nerve damage has left him unable.
Jason Peters tore his Achilles twice one off season and made it back to an all-pro year. I’m not very concerned about his long term health. Smith on the other hand..
Jaylon Smith has nerve damage. People weren’t even sure he would be able to walk normally again.
Nerve damage is much worse. Really unpredictable. And after this long without essentially activating the muscles in his foot, he will suffer from a firm of atrophy that he will never fully recover from in terms of muscle strength and mobility. With a soft tissue injury line an aimed the challenge is the same – that the leg is fixated in a boot for weeks, which caused atrophy, and that just tends to leave a mark in a person’s peak performance potential. But the achilled is metely weeks, and the muscles are actually ‘online’. Smith had been like this for more than a year. He is never going to be the same dude, regardless of what happens.
Jones actually touched on what you just stated about the calf muscle– when they took the cast off, he was surprised to see his calf muscled was undefined and a shell of its former self. I can only imagine what it would look like in a case involving nerve damage.
From the article–
The cast had recently come off Jones’s leg, and he was stunned by what he’d found underneath. “It’s crazy how fast [the calf muscle] just disappears,” he said as steam rose off his soup, curling around his dreadlocks. “I was stunned.”
Yeah, muscles disappear with astounding speed, especially muscles in the body that are weight-bearing, meaning muscles that are normally sustained merely through standing, sitting and walking around. But it is more than just muscle, it is something about neuro-memory and neuro-motoric apathy that sets in at a certain point. Basically the muscle ‘forgets’ how to contract and fire fully, and it takes pretty extensive physical therapy to get it to work in its full range of motion again, depending on how bad it has become. I have had the pleasure of a few surgeries where you are not allowed to even stand on the leg for up to 6 weeks. The first time, when I went back in for a check up and they asked me to stand on both legs for the first time and put weight on the repaired leg, I did as they told me to, and.. …fell over like a sack of potatoes. Basically my leg didnt carry me and I was completely unprepared for it. My entire leg essentially looked like one of Jimmy stick figures, no muscle.
Smith has something similar to JR Reed and to a lesser extent, Leonard Weaver.
Nerve damage is something that cannot be repaired medicinally, it has to fire on its own. Tendons can be sewn back together, usually with no noticeable differences.
Hell, Demeco Ryans had it done to both legs, but was at the end of his career physically when the second one tore- he still played for us again.
We would be wise to red shirt Jones this year- give him some time to acclimate to the nfl game, gain strength and build his leg(s).
Selecting him was a move for the future, no need to rush him.
Don’t forget Lattimore
What about Lattimore?
I can’t wait to see Steven Daniels play! !
Damn i have my hopes up that he gets coached up and he knocks people down! !
Imagine him On kickoffs playing ST!
So where the team stands I think there are 2 question marks as far as starters go on the team. RB and CB. Sure LB and S and thin, but I’m just thinking about starters. I think with much improved WRs, and deep threats this year, we will see the run game do better. There is talk about adding a bigger back at some point, which they might do, but even the 3 smurf rotation should be effective. That leaves the only major question at CB which was bad last year anyway. Plus you have a new, “cheap” CB on the roster who could be a stud next year. I think right now on paper this team is significantly improved from last year. It’ll be fun to see how Wentz grows in his second year with real WRs.
such a great read on a rainy day. Just having some fun — “He has a couple of good tackles in the game, something you need in Jim Schwartz’s scheme.” — is there a scheme in the NFL that doesn’t require good tackles?