Clutch
Posted: September 25th, 2017 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 478 Comments »Last year the Eagles failed to protect some 4th quarter leads. There were other games when they couldn’t finish off a comeback. The end of the game did not bring out the best in the team.
We saw some of that last week, but Sunday was a very different story. The Eagles were clutch.
They had to be, after turning a 14-0 lead into a 21-14 deficit. The first half of the 4th quarter was bad. Eli Manning was red hot and Odell Beckham remembered he was an elite player. Zach Ertz fumbled the ball away and the Eagles offense hit a wall.
Thankfully the final seven minutes of the game were a different story. The Eagles outscored the Giants 13-3 and made enough clutch plays to win the game. The two biggest plays were the 19-yard pass from Carson Wentz to Alshon Jeffery to put the team in field goal position and then the amazing 61-yard kick by rookie Jake Elliott.
If that pass from Wentz takes one more second or goes one less yard, we’re likely headed to overtime. The kick was a rocket that barely stayed inside the upright, but did and gave the Eagles a wild win. There wasn’t much room for error on those plays. The Eagles executed them flawlessly.
We do have to thank our good friends in blue for helping out a bit. Punter Brad Wing, a former Eagle, had a 28-yard punt that made all of that possible. If he gets off anything other than a shank, the game probably goes to overtime. A couple of penalties on LT Ereck Flowers helped stall the drive that led to the shank. There was a penalty on RG John Jerry that wiped out a 3rd down conversion and forced the Giants to settle for a FG to only put them up 24-21.
Every good comeback involves some help from the other guys. The key is taking advantage of those mistakes, and that’s just what the Eagles did. I would love to tell you that Wentz is now considered a clutch QB and will be good in late game situations from here on out, but we’ll have to wait and see on that. Doing it once is nice, but the best late game QBs did it on a consistent basis.
One of the best things about this game is that the Eagles were missing so many key players. Just think about the fact that the game-winning kick came from a guy who was just added about 10 days ago. The most amazing kick I’ve ever seen an Eagles PK nail came from Johnny ComeLately.
The Eagles defense was hurting in a major way. The best DL, LB and CB were all out of the game. 2 of the 3 cover Safeties were out. Jim Schwartz had to cobble together the best group of players he could and hope they could do just enough to slow down the Giants. The defense was good in the first half, but had to hold on for dear life in the 4th quarter.
This was a huge game. A loss would have made the Giants and Eagles both 1-2. It would have given the Eagles a 2-game losing streak. Instead, the Eagles are 2-1 and tied for the NFC East lead. The Giants are 0-3 and in extreme desperation mode.
Asked what's missing from the Giants, Jason Pierre-Paul said he didn't know: "Go ask Jerry Reese or somebody. I’m not a general manager."
— Greg Joyce (@GJoyce9) September 24, 2017
Ouch. This is not going to be a fun week for Giants coaches or players.
A loss would have led to a lot of questions and issues in Philly, but the win makes a lot of that go away. This is Philly and there will always be intense scrutiny, but less so after a win over the Giants.
The Eagles need to play better in the coming weeks, but on Sunday they played well enough to win and that’s good enough for now.
_
NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport reports Darren Sproles suffered a broken arm Week 3 against the Giants.
Sproles will undergo an MRI on Monday to confirm the diagnosis, but it looks like he is going to miss several weeks. RapSheet believes he is a candidate for injured reserve. With Sproles out, LeGarrette Blount, Wendell Smallwood, and Corey Clement shared snaps against the Giants. Smallwood would figure to see the biggest boost in playing time with Sproles sidelined, but this likely will prove to be an unpredictable timeshare.
No way is he a candidate for IR. Broken wrist is like a 3, maybe 4 week deal, if that.
Agreed. He could be back in Mid October. http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/profootballdoc/sd-sp-pfd-darren-sproles-arm-surgery-0924-story.html
When can you come back from IR, week 9? Sproles is super tough, but pretty difficult to be an effective back with a broken wrist. Plus, he won’t be able to do much upper body training for weeks…
Minimum 8 weeks. So it would be game 10 or 11 (the bye week may count for one of those weeks). If it’s really just a 3-week injury, IR probably not a good option.
Moot point, also has a torn ACL.
It’s ultimately a question of who do you want to bring back from IR the most since you can only bring back 2? I’d have said Sturgis was one of them 24 hours ago, but not anymore. I’m fairly sure Darby was never IR’d, and you still have Sidney Jones in there.
Jones is on the PUP list, not IR, and doesn’t count for the limit of 2. Darby is just inactive, correct.
On the other hand, you have to be out a minimum of 8 games when IRed, so you can only bring back players injured in the first half of the season. The question for IR is more if you can get by with Clement, or do you need to bring up Marshall / another RB while Sproles is out. The somewhat ironic part is that this may have been a situation for Pumphrey to get a look, but now he’s on IR himself. If it’s just a three-week injury, you may want to just get by for now.
He is 31, though. Healing broken bones takes longer as you age.
Sproles broke his arm AND tore his ACL. His year is done (and probably his career).
I know Doug gets a lot of criticism for the fourth down attempts and I admit I was unsure about going for it on the 4th and 8 play before halftime, but compare Doug to McAdoo. The Giants had 4th and 6 at the Eagles 41 on their first possession and 4th and 5 at the Eagles 38 on their second possession and punted both times. The game could have been totally different if the Giants went for it on fourth down and scored on either of those possessions. The Eagles converted on 4th down on both of their TD drives. I would much rather have a coach like Pederson who is aggressive and tries to keep his offense on the field and score points than a coach like McAdoo who is conservative and punts deep in opponent’s territory because of conventional wisdom.
McAdoo also went for it on 4th down twice deep in Eagles territory (failed both times), so there’s that…
True, good point. But he was unwilling to go for it early in the game when they were too far out for a field goal. I think those decisions (thankfully) hurt his team and helped the Eagles.
The 4th-down chart is pretty clear in that it designates a sweet spot for going for it on fourth down which is around the opponents 40-45-yard line. At this point the percentages for making a succesful kick go down and a punt doesn’t net you many yards in field position. Fromt he math, any field position tranlates to expected (average) points scored on any drive all things being equal, so even if the chance of converting the fourth down are not overwhelming, you will, on average, compile more points for than against over the course of a season by going for it there. This is what Pederson has acknowledged, and I for one love it – coaches in the NFL is generally way too conservative in this area because they trust conventional wisdom (and the desire to avoid criticism) more than the numbers. However, the place to go for it is in that area. As you get closer to the goal line, field goal percentages go up to become an almost-guaranteed 3 points, and depending on the down-and-distance the conversion attempt gets harder on a compressed field. And so the balance shifts so that you, on average, will gain more points than against by kicking the field goal.
My point is; Pederson going for it on 4th down was textbook, McAdoo going for it was stupid desperation that probably cost them the game.
Thanks. You made my point much more eloquently than I could have!
I agree, mostly, with what you’re saying here. I just couldn’t fathom going for it on 4th down with 8 yards to go. The overall odds of getting a first down on 4th and 8 are so remote that I think the “averages” based on points from that point on the field shouldn’t have overridden the distance needed.
In reality though, if you are passing the ball, how much of a difference is a few yards? It most-likely takes away a running play option, but an 8 yard pass is not something that has to be game-planned specifically to achieve.
Ups the difficulty of the pass because the D knows minus draw it will be pass.
I posted a graphic yesterday. Purely from a odds and points standpoint, Doug made the right call. You can argue the specifics of the situation, but from a probability vs reward perspective, Doug was right. Apparently.
If the defense hadn’t bailed Doug out with a 4th and inches stop, we would have lost the game. i can’t see how going for it on 4th and 8 was right.
You get that that is a hindsight argument based on the result of the play, right? If they had converted the fourth down and scored a TD, they may never have needed to rely on a 61 yard kick to win the game.
Sure but even a complete catch at the 36 isn’t a terrible outcome. The vast matrix of possible outcomes favors going for it.
I don’t think they are as remote as you think, especially given Wentz’s performance so far this year.
The reason that the math works out is that you gain very little from punting the ball. Wether you punt of turn it over on downs, you are still giving the other team the ball with an opportunity to score before the half. People seem to forget this. Reading the comments in here, its like folks have convinced themselves that the alternative to going for it was to just run into the tunnel and call it a half. No. The alternative is to give the other team around 30 yards worse field position. So the calculation becomes; How much does 30 additional yards of field position change their likelihood to score against us on the ensuing drive? And how much does going for it change the likelihood of us scoring against them before the half? If going for it in stead of punting changes your odds of scoring more than it changes the other teams odds of scoring, you should go for it since the odds are in your favor. If you dont, you have let the other team off the hook.
I still can’t stomach going for it with 8 yards to go. That’s simply a bridge too far. I did like the QB sneak calls; it seems Doug learned how to call those finally.
If the Eagles had been making their share of 12-yard passes, I could see it. Or with a different game situation — not near the end of the half, where time is a factor and generally not part of those models.
It’s just that the game plan involved trying to make the Giants earn as many first downs as possible, so you don’t want to give them short fields. And it was a distance the Eagles were not having much luck with, at least passing. Just seemed like a place where the rest of that trumps the math. Another day though, in that area of the field, I can see going for it on 4th and 8.
No need to compare DP to any other coach. He’s here and our problem. 4 and 8 in that spot is a terrible, terrible call. Bone head call. I don’t care what McAdoo, the new hair doo, guy is doing…worry about our how house.
The point of the comparison is to say I am glad we have a coach that errs toward being too aggressive rather than too conservative. I think more often than not it will help the team win more than it will hurt the team. Even if in individual instances (such as the 4th and 8) the aggressiveness may hurt the team, I still think it is better to have an aggressive coach that accepts modern ideas and analysis than a conservative coach (such as McAdoo) that avoids getting blamed but hurts his team’s chances of winning.
plus it showed confidence in both the O and D;
first to get the 1st,
2nd that the D is good enough to do their job
Trust in your players goes a long way
The 4th and 8 was dumb and the play call was even dumber.
The others were 4th and 1 or inches which is a totally different decision.
Playing by the numbers is never dumb. Hindsight bias is going to be lighting up WIP this week.
It was not hindsight for me. I said it before he made the decision. It was dumb. Fuckin’ hate WIP, would never listen to that crap
I understand what you think you’re saying, but what you’re really saying is that you know better than the math.
Nobody is going to dispute that the execution was terrible.
The thing is that the “math” isn’t something to follow blindly. It’s generalized and abstracted by nature–I’m not sure exactly how the stats are calculated, but it’s taken from a large number of situations.
This means that the math isn’t attuned to any particular situation. Like FairOaks says, the decision should also hinge on how well your particular team has been doing in those situations, the type of defense you’re playing that day, how that D has been reacting, etc.
I’m not arguing against using quantitative reasoning. Quite the opposite actually. I’m just arguing that there’s more evidence that’s necessary to make a good decision, and putting all that evidence together and applying it to a particular situation requires good judgment. That’s what makes the game so interesting.
Very good points. Doug did say that he took into account how well the Eagles defense was playing when making that decision.
They’re calculated based on the expected points earned from the field position and down. Those events, historically, have had their own contexts in which players were hurt or hot/cold. And historically, the numbers worked out in such a way that it was the right call based on this situation to go for it.
For all the rage at Andy not “putting the players in a better chance to succeed”, you’d think putting players in mathematical advantage would be welcome around here. You have to get past the outcome.
Again, I think the quant analysis is a good starting point. It gives you a sense of what has generally happened, given particular variables. No quant analysis can account for all the variables, and there’s actually a ton of quant data missing that I’d like to know. E.g. how much variation is there in each particular situation cell referenced on the chart, and what factors explain it?
All I’m saying is that making a good decision involves considering the quant analysis–maybe even giving it a decent amount of deference–but it’s not the only thing. The quant analysis simply can’t account for everything that’s potentially important in specific, concrete situations.
I didn’t have a problem with the play call. Wentz needs to not take a sack. 1st read, maybe second read, then either force it downfield or throw it away (INT is preferable to incompletion in that case).
Going on 4th and 8 isn’t even necessarily dumb. But it’s on the edge of go-for-it in most of those models, and the Eagles were not hitting those types of passes much so their odds are worse, and the defensive game plan involved making the Giants earn lots of first downs so short fields hurt more than normal — especially given the time left on the clock. So I hated the decision in that particular instance.
Granted, the Giants may have ended up with a field goal if we had punted instead. The result may have actually turned out better, but that was very lucky.
Agreed that Wentz cannot take that sack.
Blount and Agholor were both wide open on the 4th and 8 play. It’s failure was completely on Wentz.
He (apparently) decided pre-snap which receiver he wanted to throw to, then when that receiver was covered, instead of tossing up the ball to give them a chance, he held onto it and tried to scramble. The one thing you don’t want to do on 4th down is take a sack. He’s got a real problem not seeing open receivers. I hope this is something he works to improve.
You know, I have thought about it a bit and I now think the 4th and 8 was a defensible call. The numbers back it up. Basically you are trading a good chance to put up points for a somewhat lesser chance to give the other team field position. Really, Wentz getting sacked is skewing our perceptions. The good argument for punting is that Wentz is currently too mistake-prone to put that kind of responsibility in his hands.
I agree about Wentz. He focuses on a single receiver way too often. It makes him hold onto the ball much longer than is necessary (missing wide open guys) and results in too many sacks.
Eric Rowe was inactive fyi. We need some team to give Belichick a good offer for Butler and of course Rowe to get better.
Malcolm Butler also warmed up with the starters, so he appears to be back in the mix.
Malcolm Butler may very well return to the starting lineup today, as Eric Rowe is inactive due to his groin injury. Butler had a great week after sliding to third on the cornerback depth chart, so let’s see if he is rewarded for it.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots/the_blitz/2017/09/live_nate_solder_not_present_for_warmups_malcolm_butler_appears_to
“The Eagles defense was hurting in a major way. The best DL, LB and CB were all out of the game. 2 of the 3 cover Safeties were out.”
Anybody doing any strength and conditioning down there? How the F is it possible to have this many people hurt already when we were totally healthy coming into the season? It’s really irksome.
I don’t understand the need to blame everything that goes wrong on the team. It’s a contact sport, for chrissakes.
A number of the injuries were non-contact (the hamstrings in particular). It’s striking because it conflicts with their relative health the past two or three years.
Statistically absurd to put that on the team.
Did they stop drinking smoothies and go to bed by their scheduled time?
Ever watch football before?
Injuries are happening all over the nfl. Part of my points about more playing time in the preseason. Injuries are going to happen no matter what. IMHO, the players are not conditioned enough going into the season. I have nothing to back that up – just an opinion.
I don’t understand why more people aren’t killing Bradham, instead of Mills, for the long TD to Shepard. If Bradham doesn’t step the wrong direction, he’s in the passing land and that slant never gets completed.
That was on Maragos as much as anyone.
Patrick Peterson as well.
More likely Robinson
I’ve been known to write that we drafted Sidney Rice too.
Huh?
ding ding. Worst angle possible, took another Eagle out of the play that might have been able to make the tackle.
That’s just not really something I expect a LB to be really that good at —covering a quicker slot WR even in zone. Maybe thats wrong from a coaching perspective but that’s how I see it as a fan.
It would’ve been a bonus if Bradham made a play on the ball to me but I guess it’s fair what you’re saying.
Well considering Robinson was in coverage and Maragos blew the angle it would be really weird to blame Mills at all for that one
you and your facts. harumph
That secondary was in a pretty dire situation there. I was mystified by the 1 on 1 Mills on OBJ coverage calls (not Mills fault either way), I’ll give them a pass because that secondary was stretched very thin.
I really do need to say that was a great win to get. I’m really trying hard to not get hung up on the elements of that game that were negatives (aggregate # of injuries, letting that POS Beckham score twice, 3 more f-ing sacks of Wentz, no sacks of f-face Eli, that 4th&8 call, seeing another swing/screen pass or two too many, poor LB play leading to all of those long completions on slants, etc.) as burying the Giants was amazing to see. I would have much rather buried them 28-0, but it still says Eagles 2-0 in division and Giants 0-2. F them and double F their fan base. I cannot stand the Giants as they’re my most hated opponent. I hope they continue to lose to the point where all of Eli, that pervert looking fool coach McAdoo, and their simpleton GM Reese are all forced out in disgrace at the end of the year. And a pre F you to anybody who takes up for Eli when his HOF eligibility begins. You can take those lucky / fluke titles and shove them straight up your rear end.
Again, really pumped we just beat the Giants again.
I think you’re not trying hard enough lol…
Seriously though, you forgot ball security too …ahem #86 .
In my opinion the defense lost so much personnel that it’s hard to criticize them. The corners just don’t have the talent without a Darby (and hopefully Jones) and safeties yet they battled at times and played with emotion at times.
Yet the offense almost gave the game away and they needed to step up.
Getting tough wins hopefully will pay dividends but the offense needs to gel at least until we get our defensive reinforcements back .
Great gut check win. We need to grow from it and take advantage with the relatively easier part of our schedule coming up. Going 3-1 with 3 of 4 games on the road would be sweet. Am I asking too much to beat 0-3 Chargers away? They will be desperate…
What’s insane is the only way Elliott makes the field goal is if the balls trajectory stays straight. Because he was lined up at the right hash mark the ball had to hug the right upright which gave him even less room for margin of error. If the ball is kicked to go through the center, it takes a longer route, and falls short. He literally kicked it as perfect as one could. Amazing try
Good observation.
This explains the science behind the kick and how small of a window he actually had to kick the ball to make through the uprights.
http://www.philly.com/philly/health/science/the-physics-of-a-61-yard-field-goal-20170925.html?dk
Next Sunday’s game concerns me. It does not bode well for the team that they’re crossing the continent and playing a team desperate for a win in their new home.
On the other hand, as one of a decreasing number of longtime Eagles’ fans who actually was at Franklin Field to witness their last championship, the regular season that led up to it was a snowball effect of skill and luck. I’ll add guts to the list. They rarely blew away their opponents, but learned how to win the close ones.
By no means am I saying that they are a shooin for even the playoffs, but developing the mentality of being able to pull of wins against the odds is a huge part of building a winning mentality. All you have to do is look no further than the dead-in-the-water Packers as they mounted the inevitable 2nd half comeback against the Bungles.
I’m not ready to think about the next game yet. 🙂
OK, I’ll dial it back. It’s only Monday and we need to pause and celebrate the “Jack of the Jake.”
you’re fine. Continue with the insight!
Whew. The weather outside is frightful, m, but the celebration inside is delightful. Working on it.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKkRD8IWsAET8In?format=jpg
before clicking on some random link – care to give a blurb on what the link is for?
I think it is a coupon for free sunglasses with your in-home lasik appointment..
I never spam. It’s a link to today’s NY Post front page.
That is even better than the one from yesterday.
I love how they are putting the blame on Odell when he was the reason they got back in the game to begin with.
I didn’t research so hoping for some clarity – who started at left guard? I was expecting to see Warmack but noticed Wisniewki at guard. Did Warmack get hurt/benched/never started?
…..
Enjoying the win today. Pederson bashing coming in 3..2..1…(ok, tomorrow)
warmack started
Guy is yet to live up to his potential coming out of college.
They seemed to alternate series. Dunno if they are doing open tryouts out there or if cramping was an issue or what. But Wiz did some nice things
Warmack started and played the first 3 series. Then Wiz played 2 or 3 then they rotated each series after that.
The bad news is that we’re back to last years game plan of beating our defense, a death of thousand 6 yard passes.
The good news is that Eli and MacAdoo are probably the best at pulling that off, and we lived through it. Darby, McCleod, Cox, and Hicks need to get healthy ASAP.
Any updates on Cox and Hicks?
Pederson said they were “OK” and day-to-day.
Any good QB is going to be able to do that to us.
For sure they can. It’s just that MacAdoo got his job by forcing Eli to make quick short throws. It sucks for us is that the basis of their offense is the exact way to beat our defense.
Hm, yeah, that’s kind of how you construct your team if you want to win divisional games, right?
when you say any good QB could do that to us…uhhh I am not so sure you can make that blanket statement about every good QB in the NFL can play the way that Eli did yesterday…
If we get Darby and maybe Jones back, and/or Douglas continues to improve, we will be able to play man press and take away the dink-and-dunk attack. Injuries are really the problem here.
It was an interesting game – so glad we won, but boy we tried hard to blow it several times.
Offense needs to be much more consistent and Schwartz’s defense re-defined “playing not to lose” in the 2nd half.
It was so frustrating to watch them play such soft coverage and not rush Eli.
Kudos to the new LS, Jones with the hold and Elliott with the kick. Thank goodness especially with WSH dismantling Oakland on SNF which shocked me. Perhaps the Raiders read their press clippings too much or are not a good road team or Lynch needs to stop dancing on the sideline…
Odell Beckham is quickly becoming the NFL equivalent of Sidney Crosby. He is visibly and without dispute the best player on the field, but his crybaby bullshit makes it impossible for me to enjoy the best player in the sport.
I cannot stand Crosby, but he is 10x more classy and humble than OBJ. OBJ reminds me of Moss
He reminds me of TO… completely self absorbed. Almost doesn’t matter what is going on as long as he gets his.
I see TO and Moss as very similar….the incident I was thinking of was Moss wiping his ass on the goal post after scoring a TD. Classless and clueless like OBJ
Agreed… I was thinking of the fake mooning too. I just think TO was completely off his rocker like OBJ. Moss just seemed classless at times. He doesn’t necessarily seem crazy to me.
Get your popcorn ready for this offseason and his contract demands. No way he plays next year on his 5th year option. He’s already stated that he wants to be the highest paid player in the NFL.
Ha… this is going to be fun to watch.
I think he is much worse than Moss. Moss was cocky, but OBJ’s whiny crybaby when things go wrong is unbearable.
I’ll bet many of his teammates feel the same way.
F UCK THESE NI GGERS
ok, everyone. What are your thoughts on OBJ’s *second* TD celebration. Not the dog pissing whatever the hell he was trying to do. forget about that for a sec. i’m talking about the one where he held his fist up in the air.
my first thought was that this was directly mocking Jenkins’ anthem ‘protest’. (yeah, i put protest in quotes, he’s not really protesting).
Texted some of my eagles buddies watching the game, they felt the same thing.
i want to get more peoples opinions on this before I start thinking about it too much. the thought of a black man mocking another black man for standing up for racial inequality is the kind of thing that is going to make my head spin…
i’m kind of hoping other people here can convince me i’m seeing something thats not there.
I think he was actually standing with him, not mocking him. But, that was just my reaction.
thanks, i’m hoping more people here can chime in with the same opinion. i’m trying to avoid outrage over nothing haha
Personally I don’t give OBJ credit for being that thoughtful. After his goofy little doggie act was fined, I think he just backed off to something that seemed to be socially acceptable in a strong way during the course of the day. Talented kid, but a silly kid. Wouldn’t want to see him added to my favorite team.
are you saying you don’t give him enough credit for being thoughtful enough to mock Jenkins? or to show support for Jenkins?
either way, thanks for sharing your opinion. I appreciate it.
Thought provoking question, Roger!
Just my opinion. OBJ seems like he thinks at the Doggie and Hydrant level. Something outrageous that brings attention to him. I mean, that’s one of the all time worst TD celebrations. Why does he think the team, the league, the public will say “Great celebration, Odell!” What’s he going to do next? Have the Doggie take a Dump? Once every few years a guy comes along and sinks to a new low level like that.
Anyway, he got penalized. And I bet he was shocked. So the next celebration is back in line with the social justice theme of the day. I think he was just retreating to a safe place after unknowingly stepping into controversy and a penalty. Don’t think he mocked Jenkins at all.
So I don’t think he’s very thoughtful. Just very impulsive and attention-seeking, like those sideline antics last season. Big baby, in so many words. Great player. But not a great teammate. Just my opinion.
The word you`re looking for is immature
I think my 37th fart from this moment is much more significant. Yours as well. Sam goes for 370th….
I think trying to divine meaning from the random impulses of an immature youngster won’t be very fruitful, any more than the random tweets of an insane clown p——dent.
https://twitter.com/APfeifer24/status/912103416645734401
Honestly there are zero CBs who can cover Odell 1v1 without safety help and the part of the game I saw, Mills was alone a lot
He had Jenkins playing over the top all game, with exception to the redzone. Jenkins said as much afterward that they doubled Beckham all day.
That’s why we miss Ron Darby. That’s the main coverage assignment we needed from him. He handled OBJ while at Buffalo 1:1 and shut him down back in 2015. Got the athleticism and the speed for it. Maybe you saw the video.
Yea Darby might be one of the few CBs in the NFL with the agility and speed to limit Odell.
With our pass rush and Robinson and Douglas playing well, its all that we need. Mills is a perfect dime CB or pseudo safety
The Vikings have a pair that can handle him. Maybe ATL too
Those guys were high draft picks for a reason. Mills was a 7th rounder for a reason.
Does any of that matter after kickoff? They all play on the same field under the same rules? 2 of the better CBs in the game are later round picks.
And Mills was only a 7th round because he got into trouble. Guy had 3-4 round grade on him before his incident.
It doesn’t matter, but my point is that people who look at Mills – a marginal talent who was a late round pick – and are upset that he’s not playing like a Pro Bowler who was picked in the first round are being dumb. Yes, there are a few late round CBs who turn into stars, but it’s very rare. Mills has already far exceeded the career achievements of the average 7th rounder, most of whom don’t even make it out of their first training camp.
The funniest part about all this Darby talk is that we really never saw him fit in yet. He let up some catches before he was hurt in week 1.
I saw him shut OBJ down on video with Buffalo vs NYG in 2015. Never seen anybody do that but Darby.
Not bad, and great to hear. Still need to see him fit here.
And when count on Maragos you are probably gonna get let down. That angle on the Shepard TD.
This is a perfect example of a strawman. Literally no one has argued that Jalen Mills can cover Odell Beckham.
But almost everyone has argued that he played good.
“Not as bad as might be expected given the very unfavorable matchup” ≠ “good”. Learn the difference.
I think Mills sucks, if you want to defend his play, that’s fine. But seriously dude, there’s no reason to insult or resort to name calling.
That means that he allowed 7.9 yards per catch on those 15 catches. The game plan was to keep the catches in front of the cbs and then tackle and limit YAC. Mills executed that game plan other than the two in the end zone, which he contested and Beckham made two great catches.
Once again, no one is arguing that Mills is capable of locking down Beckham in man coverage.
He gave up 10 catches for over 100 yards in week one. What’s the excuse for that?
He played across from Darby.
Doesn’t that make his 21 targets even worse since he played opposite to a 3rd round rookie playing only his 2nd NFL game? Beckham was targeted 9 times, that means Mills was targeted at least 12 times when covering another receiver.
I can’t believe I’m going down this rabbit hole when the answer is always going to be some variation of: I get that Mills is not going to make the pro bowl. He played alright. Context context context.
They were throwing to Marshall against Douglas early in the game and getting nowhere. I assume the gameplan was not to rely too heavily on the recently injured OBJ. And then they switched that up and started feeding it to OBJ. Yeah, the stats are ugly. It’s arguably the best receiver in the league against a young corner who should never be the #1. He did his job.
Context is that he had Jenkins playing over the top all day, with the exception of the end zone, where he got beat deep twice. He did not play alright.
Whats your suggestion then?
No suggestions, just posting this information and wondering why so much love for Mills.
Carroll seemed to have quite a few people defending his poor play for several years too while Fletcher was hammered over and over again and was no worse than Carroll.
It must be that Mills and Carroll are generally easy to root for as they both seem like good guys and team players, unlike the lackadaisical numbskulls that were here in the past like McKelvin, DRC, Maxwell, and Nnamdi.
You are mistaking “we know Mills isn’t great, but he’s the best option we have at the moment and at least he plays hard and competes” sentiment with “love for Mills”.
Literally nobody on this board has argued that Mills is even an average NFL starter.
Knock it off with the ridiculous strawmen.
What’s up with the name calling and insults? Not cool. As so, this will be my last reply to you.
Yeah what else could you ever ask him to do on that second TD catch. Unless you’re Revis or Sherman or Neon Deion you’re going to lose a lot of battles against guys like ODB.
Beckham was targeted 13 times. 9 catches. Beckham has averaged around 14 yards per catch in his career; yesterday it was touch under 9.
Mills is going to be our worst matchup most weeks. We do need Darby back against top WRs. His best attribute is that he seems to take good angles and makes the tackle. Other CBs may not want to tackle at all, or take bad angles — we have seen lots of that in the past.
I mean if Douglas keeps it up Mills could be the slot guy. Though ole what’s his name 21 looks pretty good, right?
I just can’t bring myself to hate Mills. He is in better position than all of the CBs I have seen here since Asante and Sheldon.
That Rasual Douglass guy looks pretty good.
There is no excuse. He is what he is: a CB who plays hard, tackles well, challenges catches, but lacks the speed to stay with good wide receivers. My point is that I don’t see why everyone is expecting him to be a shut down corner and getting mad when he isn’t. We already knew that.
Making your number 2 corner your number 1 instantly raises the level of competition he faces on a weekly basis. He might be capable of being a number 2. But we still have Jones in the pipeline to pair with Darby when they are healthy. For now we are just trying to tread water…
Here we go again with the whole “shutdown corner” thing. I never said that and have yet to read that anywhere since he was drafted. I’d prefer an above-average corner, but I’d settle for average. He is below average at best.
You posted a tweet that said “He can cover Odell Beckham, though…” In order to cover Beckham one would need a “shutdown corner”. An above-average corner or average corner in the NFL cannot cover Odell Beckham. When you are upset that our second year 7th round draft pick can’t cover arguably the best wide receiver in the league, it seems to me that you expect him to be a shutdown corner.
My interpretation of the “He can cover Odell Beckham, though” is that Schwartz had him following Beckham to the left and right side of the formation. That is the matchup Schwartz wanted, otherwise, he would have left him on the left side all game.
Schwartz thought Mills was the best he could do against Beckham. I’m not sure I disagree with him (Douglas matched up better with Marshall) but in any case your beef should be with the coach, not the player.
Mills on Beckham and Douglas on Marhsall is the superior combination
Mills did tackle pretty well yesterday. I only remember 1 missed tackle he had.
Douglas gambled on a pick 6 and the Giants turned it into a 20+ yard gain instead.
It’s funny that people forget OBJ is the best WR in the game. Nobody shuts that guy down. He is producing at a better rate than any WR in the history of the league. But forget all that…Mills is jiust trash
If you have OBJ on your team, you’re probably going to target him that many times no matter who is covering him.
Yeah I mean it sounds like they are giving every big catch to Mills, and I can tell you from watching the game that most of the big gains are on Maragos.
I think it goes on the entire secondary. The CBs (Mills, Robinson) werent challenging the catches at all. Although Douglas did a good job on Marshall.
And Maragos and Robinson failed to secure the tackle on the big play to Shep.
I think the philosophy was bend but don’t break. Honestly, that failed because we let up a few plays, but worked really well for most of the game.
I think NYG just took too long to figure it out. That 4th Qtr was really bad.
It wont take Rivers that long to figure out he can slant us to death all game.
The Giants literally did the same thing all game.
Ugh, this was so frustrating, and it happens every Giants game. It was clear they went with the quick-passing game to neutralize the rush, but the Eagles defense never adjusted to take it away.
I can only hope it had more to do with injuries limiting the game plan and not Schwartz being incapable of adjusting.
I feel like the injuries played a huge role. Don’t forget though, it was a shut out well into the 3rd quarter. There was a defensive collapse no doubt, but they held it back long enough to win.
Certainly at a bit of a cross roads here with the defense. Do they adjust, or was a weakness exposed at the end of the game. I tend to lean toward the latter. ODB is a pretty good player.
Dude, you really need to let this Jalen Mills thing go. He’s not a shutdown corner. Nobody’s arguing that. He’s at best a #2, more likely a #3 or #4, and the fact that the Eagles traded for Darby and drafted Jones and Douglas with high draft picks indicates they realize that. Unfortunately two of those players are injured now and the third is still a raw rookie which means Mills has to move up the chain. Giving up 5.6 YPA is not a terrible outcome given the situation.
He’s clearly a football genius for being the only guy to recognize that Mills isn’t a quality starter.
Let it go? He is our starting #1 CB.
He’s been thrust into that role solely because injuries to other players have left the team with no alternative for the time being. If we come to the offseason and they let Darby go or trade Jones or whatever and say it’s because they’re fine with Mills as the top CB, then you’ll have a point. Right now you don’t.
Reminds me of when Jim Mora, Jr told DeAngelo Hall, “You owned him!” after TO had caught over 100 yards on him.
Some say Mills was targeted. Some say he wasn’t, and it’s just that OBJ is the “Go To Guy” and Eli will force the ball to him most often compared to everybody else.
I wonder what the numbers are before and after Cox/Hicks left the game…
Game clip of Mills yesterday:
http://www.americanthinker.com/images/bucket/2017-05/198540_5_.png
If the Giants had gone to Beckham frequently in the 1st half, he drops 150+ yards on the Eagles yesterday and they win this game. Poor game planning that McAdoo has taken some real heat on already.
I found a picture of him modeling the Eagles throwback uniform.
http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/Cards/Football/3290/3290-854767Fr.jpg
It was a run of the Mills performance.
Less than 6 yards per target isn’t bad. Beckham made 2 great catches. Mills is who he is, the bigger problem is that Schwartz is forced to call off coverage with him and Douglas and Maragos in there.
We have enjoyed an event that will go down in Eagles lore history, along with the Miracles in the Meadowlands, Body Bag Game, 4th & 26, etc. We’ll all remember “The 61 yard FG.”
I got to shake his hand a take a picture with Elliot post game at a bar. Incredibly memorable.
I thanked him profusely.
That’s very, very cool.
Yeah, serious double smallest probability luck in the case my friends and I
F**k
Sproles with a torn ACL and a broken arm..god i hope his career doesnt end like this
He’s 34 and this was gonna be his last season anyway. Sadly I suspect he’s done.
This game really doesn’t like happy endings.
Dude. That fucking sucks. He can’t even crutch around for a month or two.
Yeah looks like it’s over for him. Real shame. Had a great career though.
Total sucker punch for a great guy with a great career.
Awful to see the swan song end like this…again…coming back from an ACL at his age…don’t see it…now who is gonna return punts for us full time…
Ags did it in college. Worried about his hands… Then again Torrey Smith’s hands may be worse…
damn that’s some horrific luck. Hate to see a guy with a career like his go out like that.
The fact that something that catastrophic happened on a play that didn’t stand out as being especially violent, it’s a wonder these guys aren’t shattered to bits.
BOTH? That just seems so unfair.
I wish there was a way for us to show sproles our appreciation. One of my all time favorite eagles. I feel sick to my stomach knowing he’s never going to suit up for us again. Biggest heart I’ve ever seen on the field
Write him a letter.
Not a bad idea. Maybe we could put together a collection of thank you posts on here and send them to him
do a twitter video and tweet it at him…kinda like what was done for dorenbos…maybe…or is that too creepy??
Problem is I’m too lazy to do all that
Sure, I’d in for that. He sure has saved this team’s a$$ many times.
would be cool to do the billboard thing again
Uggggh. I was definitely worried about the knee since his leg was planted while he was hit on the knee, but after the game it sounded like the wrist was the issue, which I’m sure was more painful. But both on the same play… wow what a fluky thing.
SPROLES IS OUT WITH A TORN ACL AND BROKEN LEG.
So what do we make of Washington shellacking Oakland? Bad day for the Raiders, good day for Washteam, maybe Raiders are worse than we thought, or Washteam better?
I lean towards an aberration right now.
The Raiders are set up to blow teams out not get into brawls. Josh Norman also erased whoever lined up on his side of the field
Parity. Raiders were overrated.
Yup, the Jets and Titans were not exactly Juggernauts that got the Raiders to 2-0.
Titans are pretty good. Refs probably cost them the Raiders game.
Still really like the Raiders even if they laid an egg. It happens to West Coast teams that travel especially on Sunday/Monday nights historically.
Malcolm Jenkins on MSNBC right now. Can’t hear what he’s saying.
The word divisive. That’s pretty much it I believe.
So Byron Marshall I would assume gets the call up to the 53 man roster right?
Would make a lot of sense. Ideally Pumphrey would have been the guy to replace Sproles in this contingency but… that hasn’t gotten off to a hot start.
Not necessarily. No team NEEDS 4 rbs… and strong arguments can be made that OL or DB would be wiser depending on availability of options, etc…
Eagles carried 4 yesterday – why wouldn’t they do it again?
Is Byron worthy of a spot, is the question I would think they have. One of those 4 was Sproles. None of these guys fill that role.
Marshall’s a returner (JFC Torrey smith is not a good one) and a scat back. If they want a like for like style wise it makes sense.
They should probably use the spot for another position but it makes sense if they just promote marshall
I think Marshall runs different that Blount & Smallwood ..smoother/quicker than blount and more physical that smallwood .. Id love to see him get 7 carries a game ontop of the others
They should not be running it 40 times a game.
yeah I was trying to come up with the right mix:
.. 50 passes too many .. 73 offense plays run vs Gints, 63 vs Skins … so quick average 68, HA round UP to 69 .. word. respekt
but say 50 passes is too many, 40 too few ..45 pass/ 25 runs to keep it round .. if we get ahead then run hopefully over 30 runs ..
..Blount they say needs 12-15 carries , Smallywood 10 .. Marshall 3-5
.that make sense
Clement has probably justified some touches. Which is why I’m not sure it’s really worth keeping another RB unless they really really want a scat back type.
We were onto something good ! Here’s the details from game. .I’m sure you saw, but just in case you didn’t is pretty cool. .thought of us.
Smallwood — 10 carries, 34 yards, 3.4 average, 1 TD, long of 11 (4 recs for 45 yards)
Blount — 16 carries, 136 yards, 8.5 average, 0 TD, long of 68 (1 rec for 20 yards)
Clement — 10 carries, 30 yards, 3.0 average, 0 TD, long of 10
Seems Clement sees heavy duty on Special Teams. That would be why he’s been on the active roster.
I’ll disagree with that as Clement played last week while Blount didn’t get a carry. Pederson went to him yesterday as well. Clement is here for more than special teams…
Didn’t get a carry, but was on the field way more snaps than Clement.
Not saying they wouldn’t, or shouldn’t.
But the decision should be – what would be the best move to make the team better given all current context.
And the answer by no means necessarily has to be Marshall, or a RB at all.
Sproles was the punt returner…not just a straight RB…so if Marshall can return punts then I guess he gets called up…
It sucks to hear that Sproles only broke his wrist, thinking he’ll be OK in a few weeks, and then today… oh he also has a torn ACL. Really blows.
Can anyone explain ODB’s peeing dog routine? Is their a larger context for that or did he just want to be a peeing dog?
Well he looked like a lizard, not a dog. Very poor impression.
He’s transitioning.
He was inspired to become a ‘Mog’ after seeing Spaceballs this offseason.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/790/953/2c3.gif
Watching the lack of engagement by his teammates, he might be his only best friend.
I don’t know many bitches that lift their leg to pee.
Boom! Nailed it.
Someone said it was supposed to be mocking dawkins
That would make sense, but seeing as Dawkins has been gone for so long, I have a hard time buying it. I’m not sure he knew what he was doing even while he was doing it. Just like when he threw up the black power. I said it yesterday, but following the dog peeing routine with the black power symbol isn’t a good look for anything associated with that, no matter how you view it.
He was “marking his territory”…lame and poorly executed, but, that’s what he was going for I believe…
could have been he was thinking he was pissing on the Eagles
It struck me as a response to the celebration by Jenkins after he made *edit (a play) behind the line of scrimmage. I forget if it was a run stuff or a screen stuff, but IIRC, Jenkins did the strut/crawl afterwards and the ref had to jump out of his way.
He was pissing on our turf. Also known as “making it his turf”
makes sense.
Somebody tweeted that he maybe was doing it because of Trump’s son of a bitch comment. ODB said that that person is very perceptive. ODB is full of shit.
he was doing what happens in New York City literally 250 Thousand times a day .. or more
Dog Owners in New York let their dogs piss anywhere and everywhere.
I am not kidding.
never ever ever sit down on anything lower than your knees or waist because it is covered in years of dog urine .. and dog feces.
im not kdding.
its disgusting .. and dog owners let their dogs piss on everything! their own homes, every door, every building, every tree, every sidewalk, every free wifi stand … if its vertical in any way its been soaked by 1000 dog owners.
and dog owners say “oh it gets washed away in the rain’… yeah right, whats that great phrase I learned here .. Confirmation Bias !
Mychal Kendricks was given a huge increase in work load – number of snaps.
This is the most snaps he’s gotten by far under Schwartz (48) (69.6%). His next highest was (31) (46.3%) at Seattle last year.
That was more by necessity than design due to Hicks’ injury. But he performed pretty well when called upon.
He’s taken a step in the right direction, for sure. Another foot to the left, and he takes that deflection all the way back for a touchdown.
For the most part, ability wasn’t Kendricks problem, but staying healthy was.
Health, yes. Natural ability, no. Ability to diagnose a play properly, while playing under control and not getting confused? Big no.
He looks more comfortable out there this year- I’m happy for him.
The preseason analyst, his name I forget, said he’s an excellent blitzer, that’s when he’s at his best, and he has hardly been used that way with this team.
Previously, he was really good at running with TE’s in coverage. He can blitz, and he used to cover decently. Looks like he’s getting his confidence back
From what I remember he had some periods where he knew what to do, while other times where he seemed lost. It seemed as if whenever he played well he ended up getting hurt.
Either way, I agree with you and hope he got it together.
That was a rocket, it was nice he at least made a play on it that resulted in a positive result.
Yea, Hicks injured again….scary every time he gets banged up
Regardless of how he’s gotten the snaps he’s earned them. He’s made 2 or 3 impact plays in each game so far this season.
I had written him off for dead at this point and I was one of his biggest supporters. I have to wonder if internally the Eagles are scratching their heads as well, as to why he is suddenly so consistently performing well.
this is awesome. i actually kind of wish i could watch a full game in spanish.
thanks to BGN for showing me this.
https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/9/25/16362146/jake-elliott-field-goal-eagles-giants-game-winning-philadelphia-new-york-kick-merrill-reese-spanish
So I pay for just the internet and no TV, so no cable box. I can take the Co-ax out of the modem and put it in my TV and get the basic channels, but the games come in with both english and spanish audio at once. Used to mute it and listen to Merrill Reese on the team’s website, but that’s gone.
Just a reminder about strange bedfellows:
“If Trump slays the NFL, it will be the greatest shining moment of his presidency. His Jacksonian moment would Trump literally anything that a US president has done for White people in my lifetime.”
https://altright.com/2017/09/24/trump-delivers-righteous-smackdown-of-negro-felon-league/
Is this why he tanked the USFL too?
Hey he made a dollar off that league and then they tripled the lawsuit later, amazing percentage!
I guess I always knew these places existed on the internet, but I had no idea.
Jesus. I have no words.
What the fuck is wrong with people.
I learned a term after the election that helped explain the thinking of otherwise intelligent and educated people who believe or do evil things.
Amathia: Disknowledge instilled into the soul by bad upbringing and bad education, consisting in false values and notions and beliefs.
An interesting discussion of the word.
https://howtobeastoic.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/one-crucial-word/
That’s where I got the simplified definition.
“Here, rape our daughters, mug our sons, bleed us dry financially and castrate us emotionally, but please pretend that we’re the same and that you don’t see race either!”
I think it would be helpful to regard people and movements like this as less of a legitimate political movement, and more as an indicator of a large swath of the population being mentally ill. Paranoia, incoherence, hostility, entitlement… These people read off like a checklist sometimes.
Except when you’re talking about large swaths of population, you can’t just hand wave them away as inconsequential and ineffective. These people have actual power.
I think at times their level of power is overstated. Not everyone who voted for Trump shares the kind of views you see espoused on these websites. In fact I’d say that most of them voted for Trump for reasons other than the kind of garbage you can find on Breitbart or Drudge report or what have you.
In my reporting I’ve discovered there’s a pretty broad arc between the typical fiscal conservative voter and the delusional dog frothing uber-aryan’s you see at a place like Charlottesville.
I guess what I’m saying is, they aren’t necessarily to be taken lightly, but also I do think they represent a smaller portion of the population than is sometimes portrayed in the media.
“…there’s a pretty broad arc…”
I live in VT where, If I remember Trump received the lowest percentage of the vote of any State. The town I live in is quite small, there’s only a degree or two of separation from just about everyone. I know a lot of people who voted for Trump who were conflicted but pulled the lever because of certain strongly held social and political opinions. Catholics, for example, hardly a deplorable group, voted for the Republican because of the abortion issue.
I think we need to be very careful not to paint those we disagree with in strokes too broad.
There’s an interesting Catholic Trolley Problem there, with abortion on one set of tracks, and whatever bad things come down the road in this administration on the other.
I hear that; these are the same people who do extensive social service work in these French-Catholic regions.
And the same people who closed their eyes as their priests molested generations of young boys.
They aren’t mentally ill, just a rather unsavory part of the bell curve. Even though they don’t reflect a majority view, but they do command an outsized power for their population, because the policies they advocate are simply exaggerated forms of the ones their more moderate allies advocate. They’re the squeaky wheels that get greased.
I would contend that the bell curve has shifted due to the prevalence of poor mental health. I think a lot of these people are mentally ill.
It seems to be an increasingly reinforcing cycle.
And Trump seems willing and eager to play along with their tune. Really terrible President who has done a lot of damage already.
To an extent it is a kind of dysfunction. A large subgroup of the American population is undergoing a significant identity crisis. Their economic, social, political and moral position is being eroded by gains by previous “out groups”. Many of their treasured beliefs and values are being found to either no longer being valid, or false from the start.
This is psychological agony, and people will go to any and all lengths to find some kind of solution, finding a resolution that is consistent with their experienced reality and their values/beliefs is almost impossible, so people (as individuals and as large groups) tend to undertake psychological regression as a mental protection mechanism. The human minds ability to create and justify any actions, behaviors or beliefs that help resolve these kinds of identity crisis cannot be understated.
The level of dysfunction at the moment is not that great in most of the group (rural whites is about the best demographic term i can come up with) currently. Voting Trump (he is very good at giving short term identity salve), and having some light cognitive dissonance is working for most people. At the more extreme end you get the kind of alt-right, white nationalist movement that only makes a small part of that group. But as a nation we need a way to help resolve these issues positively – because historically groups when placed under enough stress are willing to go to horrifying lengths to resolve their identity crisis.
This is a deep vision into the nature of the problem. Unfortunately, a person must have enough integrity to acknowledge they have a problem before it can be addressed/
Well said. It’s mostly a status issue. Equality can be a step down, if you’re used to being on top.
Status matters and it definitely makes it the situation worse for those groups, but it important not to just boil it down to that. There are broader global trends that are helping cause this identity crisis as well. The internet is challenging peoples beliefs that they are the lead character in their story… its hard to feel unique and important in a 7 billion person world. Social media – and how people curate their online personas creates unreasonable social expectations and pressures. Scientific theory is challenging core beliefs and values. People used to live in small ‘worlds’ where it where it was easy to divide those who were in and out.
This isn’t a US exclusive issue, this is a global trend, across demographics. You see it in the rise of far right parties in Europe, nationalist movements like the Catalans, Buddhists! ethnic cleansing Muslims in Myanmar, radical islamic movements.
The ‘white rural’ group may be under the most identity stress in the US currently – so they are regressing the most, but its also making people more strongly identify with things like BLM, or LGBT movements, or being “Bernie Bro’s” as well.
“America is not their nation, it was built by the White man for the White man and they rightly feel little attachment to it, despite all that the nation has given to them.”
I have so many words for this but I’m not going to stink up the place with it. It just makes me sad to realize that segregation only ended about 54 years ago but the hatred/ignorance still runs so deep.
Just a reminder… some people really do make intelligent comments regarding the protests during the National Anthem…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEcYDa7r4-I
Intelligence, alas, seems to be in increasingly short supply.
The flag/anthem means a lot to people. And there is absolutely nothing wrong in that. The problem is expecting and enforcing those beliefs on others, and trying to do so goes against the fundamental values expressed by the flag.
Is really taking a knee that disrespectful? Is challenging your nation and flag to do better, and work for a more perfect union that disrespectful? Its not like NFL players are burning flags, trying to interrupt the anthem. If people do not feel like the flag represents them or their values, why should they be forced to give it unquestioning obedience and respect.
As Brandon stated, the flag and anthem represent us Americans the freedom, hope and unity of the nation. You can challenge the issues in America without disrespecting the flag and anthem.
The flag stands for the United States Government, as the pledge carefully points out. The ideals of the fallen are not a burden for the flag to carry, but for we the people to carry.
Everyone who died for liberty and justice for all didn’t pass that on to a flag. They passed that sacred duty on to us. If we aren’t doing our part, the weight of that shame should keep us firmly planted on our butts.
It stands for the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands.
Yep, the feds. It blows my mind. We Idolize the symbol of our government, and loathe our fellow Americans. Like the country would be some Shangri La if not for our fellow Americans ruining it. I think we got our values mixed up somewhere. By all means make our government something to be proud of. But first and foremost we should value our people above all.
The flag is the symbol of our country. That is primary as the Pledge of Allegiance is written. Now republic stands for our constitution. Do you have any issues with the Constitution of the United States as a whole including the Amendments?
Sure, it’s flawed and perhaps outdated (probably should be 4 branches of the government with the executive branch broken down, pardon power is dumb, electoral college was made with the ignorant masses in mind, etc) taped together with amendments. It was a historic achievement. But I firmly believe the constitution was made to serve the people and not vice versa. Same with the government and all it’s symbols. There are times we elevate these things too high and lose sight of that.
I would love to see how our founding fathers would react to the nonsense in our country today. I’m sure their vision has not played out to their liking..
They’d be much more concerned with the war of 1812, the Spanish American war when we went full on imperial ambitions to spread our greatness to foreign lands whether they wanted it or not. Most of all they would be appalled by our actions in the cold war, and how we weaponize a bastardization of their ideology. They were isolationist revolutionaries. Also they’d all be rolling in their graves when a black man was elected President.
To be frank, they would not be qualified to view our world, comprehend it, or judge us. I don’t think the dead get a vote, nor can they run for office. Isn’t that something Trump made a big fuss over?
Agreed. Just hearing their opinion, once caught up to speed would be interesting. The world didn’t end 9/23, so there is still hope it could happen.
They would be fascinating conversations. Not just with us, but among each other too. They were a group with a lot of differences that had to make many compromises.
Speaking of end of the world, let’s not jinx it with North Korea out there.
I respect that you’ve kept your tone civil throughout this discussion.
“WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALLLLLLLLL”
“freedom, hope and unity of the nation”
And if you and all the people around you feel like they have less of those things, your response is “finish your beer”
A wise man once told me “Dissent is the fundamental building block of freedom. You can measure freedom in a society by observing how much it respects dissent towards its most cherished societal aspirations.” If you believe in freedom, you should always stand with people who are peacefully dissenting from dominant majority narratives.
This is a comment from Boathousedave on the video I linked. He makes some good points…
“People need to understand the difference and distinguish between “government” and “country”
Your country represents the ideals that we all want, live and die for.
Our country supports the very freedom from tyranny, Justice and liberty
those who kneeled and those who don’t are fighting for. The Flag is our
symbol of these ideals and the Anthem our love of defending the flag
that represents these ideals. Country is shared beliefs and culture, it
makes us part of one of the greatest societies ever created, one that
believes in ending oppression whether you believe it has succeeded in
that or not. That brings us to “government” this is the entity that is
supposed to be making laws supporting the ideals of our “country” all
Americans equal under the law etc. This is who you should direct your
protest to for when they do not uphold the values of our country the
flag represents. Our anthem is directed to this our country and to the
people who fought to give you this choice. Protest your government and
lawmakers not your country.”
Actually, protest whatever you want, this isn’t North Korea. I don’t disagree with people who get angry at the protests, but I’m not going to tell anyone they can’t protest.
Who has stated they can’t protest?
Our country is fillied with bigots. That has nothing to do with government. This started as a protest against police brutality/injustice and has morphed into a larger message on racial equality. Trump has empowered all the the racists, anti-gay, etc idiots in this country. If the president can openly be a racist why can’t they? This is a protest about making the country better. Yesterday specifically was a big FU to Trump himself.
How is Trump a racist? Heard it enough times on TV? Are you accusing me of being a racist since I feel some of these protests disrespect our country?
Trump is pretty obviously a racist because he was unable to condemn a terrorist attack against American citizens by a white supremacist without clouding it with a bunch of “both sides are bad” nonsense.
He did condemn it and both sides were bad.
No, they weren’t. One group was a bunch of Nazis, and the other group was a bunch of anti-Nazis.
People like you drape yourself in the flag but you can fuck right off when you use our Nation’s flag to apologize for Nazi terrorists who murder Americans. You like to invoke the memory of our fallen troops but those fallen troops would spit on you and your Nazi friends if they came back and saw the shameful way you are using their names to support the ideologies they fought against.
You are really becoming unhinged and acting quite irrational.
Fuck off Nazi apologist.
Flyin, here’s the deal. The Southern states, dominated by white voters, vote as a conservative bloc. This has been the case ever since the Civil War (before, of course, too). That bloc was once part of the Democratic party and was responsible for the suppression of blacks and the working class.
In the 60s, because of Civil Rights, the Southern bloc defected and went to the Republican party. They have the same role in the GOP.
The Southern racist bloc (not saying all Southerners are racist, just that those who are form a very large and influential group) has not changed. These are the people who started the KKK and Jim Crow and different water fountains and were nearly willing to fight the Feds over having black people in the same schools.
So the Facebook memes about how the Republicans are the ones who freed the slaves, etc., are really quite ignorant. The parties are not the same anymore. The progressive legislation comes from progressives, which are the Democrats. The regressive, racist, anti-poor legislation will come from the conservative party, in great part due to the Southern bloc, and that is the Republicans.
Strange bedfellows, sometimes.
Why are you explaining something to him that he has already admitted he knows?
If you believe him, he wasn’t being a moron with absolutely no grasp of US History. He’s a clever boy who was trying to pull the wool over all our eyes.
Glad I gave you the platform to show off you judgemental ignorance on me.
Yeah, take that weak shit to the philly.com comments with the other racists.
I don’t know if you are racist or not. I do feel you are not open minded enough to really understand the reason behind the protests. What these protests are trying to bring awareness to is far more important than any misunderstood disrespect about kneeling during the anthem.
I understand the protests. I could sit here and bring up police brutality against whites too. And other factors across races. The point of my resistance of the mass hysteria is to think, analyze and come up with a better way to protest and act to actually bring change rather than divide the country more over the symbol that is supposed to show unity as a nation.
Yep you’re a racist.
Explain your accusation? Am I at fault to create discussion to better bring up conversation to find ways to be more effective at finding a solution to the issues that the protests are representing?
HOLY ACTUAL FUCKING SHIT.
DEAR FUCKING JESUS.
Also for all your “the troops” bullshit you don’t seem to mind his attack on a gold star family. Or McCain.
-birtherism
-hiring a white nationalist to run his campaign and a cabal of them to his cabinet
-defunding investigative units who look into white ethno terrorism
-Judge Curiel
– The Central Park 5
– Two lawsuits over discriminatory housing
– Having to be dragged kicking and screaming into the most tepid imaginable rebuke of David Duke and the Charolettesville Nazis
-Claiming all Latinos and The Blacks are living in hell
-Telling April Ryan that she should set up the meeting for him with the black congressional caucus
-Defending men who beat a homeless latino man in his name
-Repeatedly shared anti-semetic memes
-Continues to perpetuate lie about celebrating muslims post 9/11
-“I think Islam hates us”
– Muslim ban
Look up the difference between patriotism and nationalism. George Orwell wrote a great essay on it.
Republican flag wavers are nationalists, not patriots, and there’s a pretty huge difference.
Ok. You know the Democrats started the KKK, right?
Yes, and democrats were the ones backing slavery. But, if you read past the clickbait headline of whatever internet article bestowed that chestnut in your melon, the Democrats of that day were actually the conservatives, and the republicans were the progressives.
Try again.
You said it, democrats are tied to slavery. I really don’t have a party affiliation. Because I use logic to make my decisions. For you to say Republican flag wavers are not Patriots is just as absurd.
Check out our special boy who has no party affiliation.
You are the perfect example of what is wrong with this country: idiots who think they are smart.
When did it happen to you? After all those years of struggle in school with average to poor grades, after your graduation from a 3rd tier college with a communications or business degree, what was it that made you say to yourself, “Maybe I’m actually smarter than all those people who have been surpassing me in every measurable way my entire life”?
¿Que?
Do you actually believe that you stupid asshole? The Democrats that started the KKK are what we call Republicans today. They switched sides.
I am always unsure if people like you who make this obviously ingenuous argument are dumb enough that they actually believe it, or do they think the people they are presenting the argument to are stupid enough to buy it?
Which are you? A moronic dumbass? Or a liar who makes obviously false arguments to advance his points?
I learned my means from CNN.
I’ll take that to mean you do know the truth and you are a disingenuous liar.
Here’s a tip: We’re not all as dumb as the people in your republican echo chamber so when you say obviously false shit, you aren’t convincing anyone. The only people who agree with you are republican morons dumb enough to believe it or other liars like yourself who repeat the same lies and think they are being clever.
There are plenty of things to bash Democrats for, but this talking point demonstrates a lack of knowledge about relatively recent history more than anything else. Under Nixon, the Republican party (which under Eisenhower was coastal and cosmopolitan in tenor) initiated a strategy to pursue culturally conservative southern democrats, known as Dixiecrats. They successfully wooed these elements of the Democrats, and this led to the eventual return of the Republican party as a majority in the federal legislature. All of this is easily available if you google “Nixon Southern Strategy”.
So – tl;dr is that the parts of the old Democratic Party that started and supported the KKK are the parts that left the Democrats to join the Republican Party approximately 50 years ago.
Oh jesus fuck you’re one of those guys?
It’s funny, watching Ken Burns Vietnam documentary, this exact issue comes up even in the early stages of the War. The supporters of the war shrouded themselves in patriotism. It’s our sacred duty to stop communism. Get on the team. Where’s your Patriotism.
The protesters also believed they were being patriotic. If America is doing something wrong, what could be more Patriotic than fighting to save the country’s soul, and the lives of thousands of countrymen.
I just don’t want a President who insults a war hero and never said a bad word about a hostile, foreign government and their president to define what patriotism is. Not to mention skipping out on the Vietnam War because of a phony foot injury.
You mean the same government that he signed sanctions against? Makes sense. Actually it doesn’t and you are just repeating what you are told.
Are you really that dumb? Do you know he was forced to sign those sanctions because Congress made it veto proof? Trump was pissed about being backed into a corner, they know he’s a Putin cocksucker so they made sure he had no way out of those sanctions. WTF is wrong with you?
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/8/4/16090812/trump-russia-sanctions-congress-putin
Educate yourself.
Educate yourself with vox? You can’t be serious. What would you think if trump told Putin he would have greater flexibility after the election after already removing missile defense systems from Russia’s border? Would you be ok with that?
It’s a fact, Congress made sure he couldn’t veto the sanctions and Trump was angry. Russia called Trump weak and for the 1st time in his life that fucker didn’t respond. Putin owns him, Trump has never said a bad word about him. I don’t give a fuck if it’s Vox or whatever, read the asshole’s own tweets, he was pissed he had to sign those sanctions. You said him signing the sanctions was proof he’s tough on Russia, that’s bullshit. Putin obviously has something that scares Trump, he’s a coward when it comes to russia. Not McCain though, he’ll talk shit on an American war hero, even though McCain didn’t avoid the Vietnam War with a sore foot. Trump is a sorry excuse for a patriot, unless it means being loyal to russia.
Flyin (or anyone, but you seem to be the spokesman for the position I seek to better understand)
I see the strong, emotional, visceral reaction from many people regarding the flag and respect. I see the anger at the lack of respect for our veterans when they feel Americans aren’t showing the flag sufficient respect.
Putting aside differences on the validity of that position, this is what I cannot understand: how do those that so strongly seek to honor our vets and so value the power of a flag not raise nearly this level of outrage for people flying the flag of a failed insurrection or, worse yet, the symbol of an enemy that our elderly WWII vets risked their lives to vanquish?
How can one (and I am not accusing you, rather a large cross section of America that holds both opinions) look at Charlottesville Nazis with swastikas and torches chanting anti-semetic rants that so many died to contain and claim free speech, then look to players quietly taking a knee, often with hand on heart, and shout disrespect?
(Note: I don’t want to put you on the spot, and I realize this only tangently relates to football. Feel free to ignore this if it is out of line. I just feel this is probably my best chance at getting an honest, non-inflammatory response.)
That’s a great question, and it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me, either.
Some would say that it’s a manifestation of latent racism. Some would say that it reflects a tribalistic us-vs.-them attitude that may or may not be related to race.
I don’t know. I also don’t understand why the Confederate flag wasn’t banned in 1865.
When I was younger I was in the punk scene. I was what was termed straight edge. Anti drugs, Anti racism. Bands like youth of today, gorilla biscuits, uniform choice. Anyway at shows you could have a mix of bands that were different like murphy’s law or bad brains. Bands I liked too. However, regardless of the show, many times skinheads would show up. The racist types with white power tattood on their arms, etc.
They were some of the biggest assholes on the planet. Bum rushing the stage with arms locked arm in arm as a wall to slam those caught in the way into the stage. Fights they instigated. Spraying mace in the crowd. Creating chaos.
As a person that detested their behavior, unless I was defending myself, I had to have restraint so I did not end up in jail.
Just because because someone has beliefs you don’t agree with and acts the fool, DOES NOT give you the right to initiate violence on them in the court of law.
I’ve seen, been involved, and defended myself in these situations. However, legally you can not be the aggressor just because they have different views than you. You have to have restraint. If not, then you will likely be guilty of a crime.
Freshman year in the dorms, a friend in the neighboring room was straight edge. He used to laugh good-naturedly at our drunk asses when we came home from parties.
I appreciate the example, but I am not proporting violence. I am questioning why there was not, and still is not, the same level of cease and desist demands, of invitations to leave the country, of accusations of unpatriotic hatred from those who so strongly believe that a flag is the representation of identity for those flying the flag of groups that made war on Americans.
I don’t know how my grandfather would feel about kneeling, but I know he took up arms against Nazis. Where is the demand for respecting his service?
My grandfather bombed the heck out of Germany. Took out a lot of civilians too. He never spoke to me about the war. I know it weighed on his heart for the casualties and friends lost. Our flag represents the fight and sacrifice he and all those that fought to preserve it. That’s why it means so much to me. I still have family in active duty defending our freedoms.
with liberty and justice for all
One of the things I’ve found remarkable about many of those who serve in the military is their commitment and support of those who protest.
I appreciate that. The flag in this picture is from my father in law’s funeral. It is hanging 5 feet from where I sit. My grandfather died from the smoking habit that began with the Lucky Strikes in his rations.
I think I am being unfair to ask you to speak for a contingent of our country. I just struggle to see a reason why so many are more accepting of self-identified Nazis threatening fellow Americans beyond the ugly, accusatory ones. I don’t want that to be the only thing I can see.
Thank you for sharing your perspective with me.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ef845fd796b7fec4758f19880ef1eb002f21f0e64ed667119b488472da227b49.jpg
That’s real. Thanks for the post.
My grandfather’s was draped over his coffin and folded and placed on the wall similar to that frame at their house after his passing.
My current boss is a vet, and when we take down flags at a job site, it must not touch the ground and be folded in the proper way, as it should. Showing respect to all that have served to keep our flag flying.
As far as putting up with nazis and the other extremists that don’t represent our ideals… you have to respect the rights that are given. When I was young, Above the Law was a great movie. Not really, but loved the way you could take out bad guys at will. Just can’t do it in reality.
It’s the price we pay and enjoy at the same time.
That is the crux of my confusion. How so many feel “you have to respect the rights that are given” to Nazis, but not athletes.
Simply put, I am not paying to watch the “Nazis” on tv. Or paying their salaries. I also don’t have respect for them. The players get all the respect too. However, they are a representatives of their organization in the spotlight of the monetary streams that support them. When they disconnect with their audience who are American and disrespect the million plus service men that made their job possible, it becomes a problem.
I preach RESPECT to my kids. Unfortunately it seems to be a trait that is not important in society by the way things are trending…
I too teach my kids respect. I think it will be critically important if things are going to improve, and I am not ready to abandon hope.
I can see and understand your perspective that the flag symbolizes the sacrafice of many, and that you wish to see everyone show it the same deference that you do.
Can you see my perspective when you (and thousands other) take a position that athletes kneeling “become a problem” but Nazis, “you have to respect the rights they are given” it gives the distinct impression that the rights of Nazis to protest minorities, Jews, and many others existing in this world is easier for you to accept than the rights of athletes to protest the injustice they see in our country?
I’ve experienced white power skinheads first hand. They can be the biggest assholes on the face of the earth. My brother was beaten because he was was hanging out with blacks. I have no respect for them. Let’s make that clear.
Legally, they have the right to apply for permits to protest. As they did in Charlottesville, VA. Just because I do NOT AGREE with their ideology, does not give me the right to inflict harm on them. That’s my point. The protesters that threw bricks, punches, mace or whatever are not abiding by the laws and are guilty of crimes. Accountability.
The Nazis are a disgrace for their disrespect on certain people. The protesters of the National Anthem and American Flag are disrespecting the country as a whole. All the men and women who sacrificed for that that flag to be flying. Over a million American lives lost. All the widowers and children who had to deal with that family loss. The ones that survived. like my grandfather, who had to deal with all the loss of their friends and service members. Let alone the casualties inflicted
Now tell me… is a small pathetic group spewing hate, or the men and women that actually sacrificed and gave their lives to preserve the freedom for this country of greater importance??
There are 325 million people in the US of A. How many have you seen with either of these two flags you reference. I’m not trying to be a smart aleck (or worse), but trying to add some perspective.
More than athletes kneeling. I can tell you where three fly within a few miles of my home.
Props for asking a question. Props for asking it with respect.
He won’t discuss the merits of what they are protesting.
it’s typical bullshit wrap it in the flag and deflect.
Did you ask, read further or just decided to be negative?
Ignorance, cowardice, and the anonymity of the internet can be a horrible brew.
I’m not sure what you mean by strange bedfellows here. That term is usually used to describe people of differing views who find common cause. But the article you linked presents views that are common amongst Trump’s base. Bedfellows? yes. Strange? no.
My point is, do you really want to be on this guy’s side? As extreme as his views are, do they ring even a little bit true? If so, it’s time to look in the mirror.
https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/9/25/16363342/eagles-injury-updates-latest-fletcher-cox-jordan-hicks-philadelphia-defense-chargers-game-week-4-nfl
Injury updates, Cox likely a no go next week. Pretty significant loss, but as long as players like Hicks and Mcleod can come back, I think we should be ok.
Jernigan can replace cox. Question is who replaces Jernigan and how well do they perform
The bigger issue is will Vaeao be healthy. Otherwise you’re going into a game with only 3 DTs. Which is because some of the DEs can eat some snaps there but if the Chargers get a lead and start pounding with Gordon it could be a problem.
I’d also like to see some film and analysis on how Beau Allen has been doing. I believe he had two weeks before the first game? It’s kind tough for a player to perform at his best with so little preparation.
He’s been his general self. Solid against the run not a whole lot of anything in pass rush
So a poor man’s Bennie Logan?
But, no, that’s good. I’m happy if Beau is up to his old speed.
Pretty much, same as he’s always been.
Thankfully, Gordon’s not healthy
Holy shit Joe Flacco sucks.
That situation is starting to reflect on the head coach, sad to say.
Harbough, Peyton, and McCarthy would fired by now if they hadn’t won that one superbowl.
Thank F=== for that we didn’t trade Kendricks for a 6th rounder…
And we know Howie tried, thankfully he did not pull the trigger
Wow, Jared Goff’s QB rating is very nearly twice what it was last year. What an amazing turnaround. I actually liked him quite a bit more than Wentz coming out of college, so at least it helps my ego that he appears to be an NFL player.
Jared’s doing a nice enough job in year 2 with Coach Scott McVay (who made his mark getting a lot out of Kirk Cousins too). But I don’t think Goff is anywhere near the field general QB that Carson Wentz is.
Maybe he could be, if he loved Jesus more.
Goff needed maturity for sure, he was a wreck his rookie year.
I think he needed anything but Jeff Fisher
My conclusion as well. An offense doesn’t just turn itself around like THAT in one year. Fisher has a long history of helming teams with poor-to-mediocre offensive performance. I believe Fisher & Co. held that offense back.
3 games in, still a long way to go before the verdict is in on Goff. Wentz has 19 games so the good judgment is more solid IMO
Goff has much better touch and accuracy than Wentz. Wentz can’t make this throw- https://youtu.be/FegNVbIGwIc?t=125
A lot of people are going to get angry with me saying this. But Wentz is less accurate than McNabb.
You’re not wrong. I also liked Goff a lot more than Wentz just due to his accuracy alone.
For me it was all about size. I figured it’s so hard to predict the future with these two, let’s take the big one.
You made the right call. I was hoping to take the one from the bigger school.
The one inch difference?
I guess it says a lot about me that reading these two comments in succession makes me think that you guys are not discussing football…
make it 3 comments, I added one 😉
Or 4.
Can I edit my comment to insert a variable?
Yeah, that’s important, but I was talking more about thickness.
Girth, if you will?
The weight is explained by one playing all 3 years so having less weight room time and being 22 months younger.
It’s hard to make a comparison to McNabb like that because Wentz is so much more willing to throw the ball downfield. Who knows what McNabb’s accuracy would have been like if he wasn’t eating the ball so often, afraid to throw it downfield and risk an INT?
But so far Wentz’s accuracy on short touch passes is remarkably reminiscent of McNabb’s. Hopefully that’s something he will be able to correct and it won’t affect his entire career like it did for McNabb.
McNabb had an excellent long ball and the 2nd half of his career was built on it. What he avoided doing was throwing to receivers who weren’t completely open.
I’ll cut him some slack though because he didn’t have receivers that could win a fight for the ball.
If you’re talking about the first throw in that video, Wentz actually HAS made that throw. Several times
My impression is that Wentz’s problem isn’t specifically accuracy, it’s consistency. He can make incredibly accurate throws, but his mechanics can slip and he becomes inaccurate. There is reason to hope that his consistency can improve if he, unlike McNabb, is committed to work on improving his game at the pro level.
Agreed. Look at the first three games of last season as an example. Nearly every one of his throws was inch perfect. Obviously he hasn’t reached those heights in terms of accuracy again, but there’s plenty to show the capability is there.
He can make tight throws but he doesn’t have the touch yet. Some guys never learn (Kaepernick) and some guys just naturally have it (Brees). Whether he learns it or not is something we’ll need to wait for and see.
Accuracy does seem to be an issue of his. He seems to do well over the middle at all depths and outside to about 15-20 yards. It is his true deep ball accuracy that is an issue. He has been putting dimes on Ertz and Alshon on slants and deep middle stuff.
I was also very high on Goff coming out, so I’m with you.
My biggest issues with Wentz pre-draft might be the things he excelled at most in the NFL, though, so I’m happy the Eagles drafted the guy they did.
Poor accuracy and gun slinging?
I would guess NFL readiness? Whereas he stepped in as a rookie and played decently.
He had the NFL mentality for sure but that’s only part of what makes a great QB. I just don’t know why people want to ignore the fact that he still has the same flaws.
I don’t think anyone is ignoring that he still has flaws. But even with those flaws, he’s a pretty good QB. He’s young and has a terrific work ethic, so I don’t see why he won’t be able to clean up many of them.
Because they’re wearing green colored glasses. The guy put up bottom-tier stats last year. However, his production is solid middle-of-the-road so far this season. This seems to constitute improvement.
Seriously? Carson absolutely looks on track to be a top 5 QB. Can some fans just never be happy?
My biggest question with Wentz was his pocket presence, which is really just a natural skill. It was something that I thought Goff demonstrated to a much greater degree in college, but Wentz has shown that he has “it” in ways that only a handful of NFL QBs do.
Yea? Lets not pretend that Wentz still can’t connect on bombs most of the time. He has gotten much better at reads and locking onto his targets. I don’t know how much you saw of him at NDSU but his accuracy was atrocious at times. His major concerns are still what he excels at so far and I’m not wrong.
Let’s not pretend he can’t?
Too many negatives, so to speak.
https://media.giphy.com/media/KUBtckMKh3AKk/giphy.gif
The comparison of the coaching teams surrounding Goff and Wentz in their first year was striking. Wentz had like 4 ex-QBs and Goff had a bunch of defensive coordinators and linebacker coaches. (I don’t remember the exact make up of the team surrounding Goff but it did not seem to have any QBs or even offensive coaches)
HURRY UP AND BUY AN EAGLES JERSEY WITH A NI GGER’S NAME ON THE BACK OF IT.
How’s puberty?
FYI that’s a troll, don’t know or want to know what he said. Have em blocked. You should too!
Don’t acknowledge please, so far everyone has done a good job of it. Just saying, if you’re new here.
Sometimes i hate the internet. Came home and spent the last 4 hours arguing about 4th and 8 call on BGN, and trying to reflect and process my thoughts on protest and identity on here (which was far more cathartic and satisfying). So much time wasted >_<
It’s a good exercise to have the conversations. You rarely will change your mind or anyone else’s, but it has a way of helping you develop your position and understand another.
Particularly if ones goal is truly to understand the opposing view and to clarify your own. Around here, most conversations seem to genuinely have that aim.
In both football and in life, as demonstrated in the political discussion below. Pretty extraordinary group of thinkers around here.
I disagree. The conversations are bullshit because one side is being completely disingenuous. They don’t want to talk about the real issues so it’s never “the right time or place for that conversation”. They want to make it about “support the troops” because that’s something they can hide behind.
Here’s the deal. You can’t win an internet argument, especially with politics. Football, we all saw the same Football game from the same source, eventually D3FB can show up and set everyone straight.
Politics, we live in different realities. Our perceptions are painted by completely divergent sources. You can’t undo someone’s perception of reality in a single conversation. But that contact is important in an ever diverging society. Below I mentioned that we have all been caught up with some abstract concept of America, and super pissed at our fellow Americans for ruining it, and to hell with those guys. But America is Americans. It’s not a plot of land on a map. Until we learn to re-engage with our society in total (not pretend the parts we don’t like don’t exist), we will not be able to move it forward.
Conversations are where that begins.
I live in a small town and we have serious political disagreements here. We generally recognize, however, that we’re going to have to figure out a way to live together because we’re going to see each other the next day, our kids go to the same school, we use the same dentist, and whatnot. I don’t know if this sense of commitment can be generalized out with such an enormous populace like our country. I’d like to think so, but I’m not sure.
I’m not sure either. You know how in football they say winning is a deodorant? I don’t see a lot of wins on the horizon for the common man at this stage of our civilization. But I’m going to try to do my part in facing that challenge.
I know one thing, I’m not going to pretend I know how a black man feels living in America, this flag wasn’t made with them in mind though. Things should be way better than they are now and somehow we end up with a troll for a president just like Jenkins said.
Fact: picked up my best friend, black girl, I’m white, in ridley. Cops pulled me over, yanked me out of the car, screamed at me for picking her up, other cop asked her what she was doing in the area. Well long story short, the cop put his hand on his gun at one point because I raised my hand off the the trunk in disbelief at what he was doing. Everytime I tried to talk he told me to shut the fuck up. When they realized we knew each other, we’re roommates, they let us go. When I asked why they pulled me over he lied and said I went up a one way street. Yeah but I didn’t, it was at least 100 feet away, plus he knew I didn’t because he never warned me or wrote me a aticket. In fact if I don’t ask him he wouldn’t have made it up.
I’m not black but I sure had a feeling what it can be like.
So your evidence is that police are racist is that you as a white person was the victim of police brutality. Fucking hilarious.
Are you fucking kidding me? Your reading comprehension rates right up there with the president. I mean seriously , you’re fucking stupid. If your comment is what you got after reading what I wrote, and it’s the first time I’ve heard that moronic point of view, that’s fucking hilarious.
Also, I didn’t say police are racist, that’s like saying all people named Ryan are morons.
Anyone can read your comments. All you do is talk about racist while people. You hate white people. Why lie asshole?
Go fuck yourself pussy, I know plenty of cops, my cousin being one, I know racism when I see it. You’re judging this statement by reading my history? You’re a dumbfuck, go suck on Putin’s cock you little piece of shit coward.
You haven’t named any racism or systematic racism. And of course I am judging you based on your comments. And yes please keep embarrassing yourself with the Putin comments. Bahhh sheep bahhh!!!
Any moron who says bahhh sheep must be at most 12 years old. You haven’t linked me to any bad thing he has said about Putin. Everyone but him, wonder why? He’s a pussy when it comes to putin even when the Russians called him WEAK because he let Congress own Trump with the sanctions. Why do you love Putin is the real question? White supremacists and nazis, Trump called some of them good people protesting their heritage. Couldn’t respect NFL players protesting. It’s only ok to praise the swatiska. You’re really dumb. So like I ask every alt-right moron, link me to Trump insulting putin? They couldn’t and neither can you. What a Russian loving bitch you are, why do you hate America?
Why do I live Putin? Where were you assholes when Obummer removed missile defense systems for Russia’s border? Where were you assholes when Obummer was stating he would have more flexibility after the election? You assholes want to start a war with a nuclear power because a democrat lost the election. It’s shameless that you assholes still repeat Hillary talking points. And fuck the nfl players. They can’t respect the country that has given them everything. And trump never called white supremacists or Nazis good people. He immediately condemned all racists. Why lie?
My comments against nazis and white supremacist who run people over with their cars anger you?
Who said it did?
Doing your part is no small thing. Keep it up.
Well, will the conversations inspire these “patriots” to stop perverting our democracy with cheating and gerrymandering? Most of us live here in this state that has a majority democratic population, yet we are represented in congress by 13 republicans and 5 democrats.
Republicans don’t believe in democracy. They believe in winning elections, regardless of the will of the people.
How will these conversations help? Do you expect republicans to suddenly feel remorse and say “Hey, let’s have fair elections”?
and in their reality, liberals are bad people who try to pervert our traditions and trample the constitution.
We can ignore each other. We can win back the government, give the double middle fingers when we do, build our perfect society without them. Leave them behind, we don’t need ’em. Then the backlash occurs again in 4 to 8 years that will revel in burning down everything we built.
Maybe civil war is the answer? Secession? No, none of those are long term solutions either. Maybe we could try to send political dissidents to re-education camps? No?
No I’m afraid not. The challenge of our time will be bridging that gap again, repopulating the common ground upon which the majority of us once stood. We need to learn to trust the character of the people we disagree with again and see the common values we have below the contentious surface. Only then will either side be willing to walk forward with the other.
This is inspirational.
Yeah, that’s not going to happen. Nothing you or I or anybody else can say will be able compete with 8 hours a day of Fox News. What you say sounds nice, but the propaganda machine is too powerful.
Well stated/
You really sound like someone that is willing to put differences aside and solve serious issues. Perhaps you should run for President.
There is no negotiating with people that advocate for genocide. There’s no common ground to be found there.
What you say sounds sensible on the surface, but it completely ignores reality. “Solve serious issues”? C’mon. How about the health care issue? Republicans have been campaigning and raising money on the idea that they would replace Obamacare with something better for years. Now they have full control of every wing of the US government, but there’s no better Obamacare replacement, is there? And why not? Because they’ve been lying for years. And intelligent people have been pointing out that their promises were empty for years.
You think we should put aside differences with people that are not negotiating in good faith? How does one do that? Are we supposed to pretend that they aren’t lying? Are we supposed to choose some of their lies and pretend they are the truth just so we can say we compromised?
You are clearly fired up and I was just doing a bit of trolling my dude.
I will say I am glad (hopeful) that you aren’t in a position that has to get things done in the government. If I had a position on the subject that was worth a damn I certainly wouldn’t propose it to you. Like I said before, some people just aren’t worth having a discussion with about CERTAIN topics. You are “that” guy on this topic.
We can talk Eagles all day though. How about that Fletcher Cox?
“I was just trolling” – the classic alibi when someone says something stupid on the internet.
I am not trolling. I am speaking truth. So fuck off I guess? Maybe come back when you have something of value to add to a conversation other than meaningless nonsense like “put differences aside and solve serious issues”
Lol I didn’t actually say anything. I was just poking at ya man, trying to have a little fun. I’m just not gonna engage you on that topic. Let’s have some fun here. You do contribute valuable Eagles conversation here, and I don’t plan to hold the fact you are one of the many crazy politico types.
I will give you a real piece of advice. As soon as you think you have it all figured out, you should look in the mirror and realize you have it all wrong. No matter what the topic is.
I don’t like people whose political philosophy involves seeing my friends and family members swinging from trees, and I don’t like people who enable those with this philosophy. You think I have that wrong?
It’s easy to fall in the trap of thinking that you are somehow above political discourse and that makes you intelligent rather than a coward but when you find yourself thinking that you should look in the mirror and realize you have it all wrong.
You have no idea how I have it. If I told you, you wouldn’t listen.
I love the act of debating. Always have. Of course there are people that just should never be debated with, but that is neither he nor there. Lots of people I know think it is a bad thing to disagree. I don’t get it.
I usually form my opinions by taking up the counter argument of a given topic with the proponent of something.
I’d love to have intelligent debates. For example, should we go with a health care system that is completely paid for by the government like Canada or Great Britain? Or should we go with a hybrid system like the Netherlands?
But that’s not the debate we are having are we? We are having a debate about whether we should stick with the half-assed hybrid Obamacare system, or just chuck it completely and let people die.
I’m not very strong at debate but I enjoy spending time with guys like you who are. I often end up learning something.
Sometimes I love the internet (no, not for THAT reason). I spent a good deal of time watching videos of fan reactions to the Elliott’s kick.
Which side of 4th and 8 are you on? 😉
So this is clutch-4… (look at the URL)
What were the first three clutches?
How would you rank these QBs if you had to start a franchise- Winston, Mariota, Goff, Wentz, Prescott,
1. Mariota
2. Wentz
3. Winston
4. Goff
.
.
.
.
.
5. Dak
It is my firm belief if that if all current NFL players were put into a draft, Carson Wentz would go #1 overall. I’m not saying he’s the best QB in the league, but the guys in that conversation are all over 30.
When you finally remember that Andrew Luck exists, it really highlights what a shame it is what he’s dealt with in Indy.
He probably falls asleep many nights thinking the same thing.
Had this conversation with my friend during the game. He (a Giants fan) said Wentz/Winston were a toss up behind Mariota, who was behind Luck/Carr. I agreed but obviously said Wentz over Winston. I’d be very interested in a good breakdown of what all these guys have put on tape thus far into their careers
Wentz, cuz wtf I’m an Eagles fan… then exactly how you did.
Mariota, Winston, Wentz, Goff, Prescott. Goff might move up with flip over Winston/Wentz. He has been night and day different this season but a whopping 3 games against some crappy foes.
Winston has to stop with the picks though – great leader.
My 3 favorite parts of yesterday’s game:
3. Ertz dropping the TD and the Eagles running the same exact play on the next snap to get the TD.
2. Elliot’s 61 yard game winning TD
1. Elliot hitting the 61 yard game winning TD right in front of Odell Beckham’s fucking face.
Would also like to mention Brad Wing enthusiastically running up field to point out where a Donnie Jones punt went out of bounds shortly before badly shanking a punt in essence costing his team the game. That Karma is a mean mother
I missed that, and am really happy to hear that. What the hell is up with this new wave of out spoken punters. So funny, when they said Brad Wing was punting there at the end, I hadn’t even remembered until then that he went to them. As soon as I heard his name I was like “Oh shit, he is gonna shank this for sure”.
How the fuck do the cowboys have 50 yards of offense but tied the game. Cards are a sad ass team.
Jerry Jones and his pact with Satan.
Their WR’s aren’t healthy aside from Fitz, and CJ2K is their starting RB. Dallas looks turrible tho on the bright side.
Started watching some breakdowns on RBs that aren’t the top 3 RBs (Barkley, Guice, Freeman). So far I really like Sony Michel, I don’t know where he’ll go but the consensus is he’s a mid round pick right now (which we do have).
Strengths
Decisive runner
Good balance
Can run inside and outside
Has power and elusiveness
Doesn’t dance a lot in the backfield
Good vision
Viable passing threat
Good frame for his size
Neutral
Was the backup to Nick Chubb and now shares the field with him
Not as much wear and tear (320 total carries or something as of now)
Weaknesses
Not the best blocker
More quick than fast like Shady
Had some injuries (knee in high school, forearm early college, ankle currently)
More of a jack of all trades and master of none type
He reminds me of Ray Rice without the off the field issues. That would be pretty damn good value if we can get him in the third/fourth round considering Rice was a very productive for awhile.
https://youtu.be/wIVgp3jR-Oo?t=14
https://youtu.be/4n3vXNv1Gbw?t=79
Ty for the update!
Peep the Fordham kid.
4 minutes into the Lafayette breakdown, holy shit I can’t tell if I’m watching a game of Tecmo Bowl or if he’s just a man among boys. Uncanny knack of getting extra yards when you think he’s going to be stopped. Patient, explosive, good frame and can break arm tackles? I know you have to be very good to get noticed from such a small school but not this good. He’s going be very interesting follow during the draft for sure.
And he’s from Harrisburg. If he has a good senior bowl and combine he could go top 100.
You think Barkley possibly goes No 1 overall next year (first overall RB since Carter in 1995)?
Conventional wisdom says there’s no way the basement teams won’t take a QB. Barkley is a generational talent but I don’t think he’ll be the first pick. Slim chance that he could be the 2nd or 3rd. Definitely in the top 5 if the Browns are in there.
Could Gruden slurp the cowboys any more? I hate watching MNF because of him
Gurden’s adulation caused my 14 year-old son to ask, humorously, if he and Sean Lee were “together?”
He slurps everybody. It’s his thing. He does it for us to when we play. I’m okay with him. Knows the game 10x better than former player color guys (LOOKING AT YOU TROY).
I just think Gruden loves football and loves to talk about everything related to it.
Not much love for the Eagles despite the victory this past week from the betters:
Eagles v Chargers opened at Eagles -1 and has shifted already to Chargers -1 or -1.5.
I can see that especially with the updated injury report today with Cox/Watkins out, Sproles done for the year, and McLeod & HIcks still not certain to start.
I was going to make a post about this game. They are 0-3 but they are a pretty good team. Not that we have played him that much, but have we ever beat Rivers?
2005 I think. Eagles held LT to something like 17 yards and Matt Ware returned a blocked field goal for a TD for the win.
That might have been Brees as QB come to think of it.
Thought we played them once where Rivers was hurt.
Wow, I remember that game. Was Rivers hurt?? I do remember being so hyped about holding LT down.
Just looked it up. Brees was the starter still. Rivers didn’t take over until 2006.
You were right we never beat Rivers. Lost to San Diego in 2009 and 2013.
Also, the Eagles held LT to 7 yards on 17 carries.
Skins fans doesn’t travel that well but I bet you will see Eagles’ fans are out in force at the LA Coliseum next week.
Nice time of the year in Southern CA, Eagles haven’t played a game in Southern Cal since 2009 (vs Chargers on 11/15/2015), and the game likely won’t have more than 60k.
I bet it is at least 50/50 Eagles’ fans if not even 60/40 Eagles’ fans and a default home-game like atmosphere for the Eagles.
If I didn’t have a wedding this weekend in Boston, I would have gone out for the game.
Dak has nice touch on his deep ball.
yeah that was dam good football unfortunately,,,reminding me of DMac
Holy Fitzgerald what a catch!
HoF
One of my all-time favorite players.
Arizona with the give up. We really need to get these long throws down.