Monday Morning Notebook
Posted: September 11th, 2017 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 289 Comments »Let’s start by talking about CB Ronald Darby and his injury situation.
Not anticipating tendon damage.
Yes, ligament tear but unlikely surgery.
With quick reduction by good @Eagles med staff, will play 2017. https://t.co/yh2OeRPqxQ— David J. Chao, MD (@ProFootballDoc) September 10, 2017
Sources: #Eagles CB Ronald Darby has suffered a dislocated right ankle. X-Rays were negative. MRI to check for ligament & tendon damage.
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) September 10, 2017
An MRI on Monday will determine whether Eagles CB Ronald Darby's dislocated ankle will require season-ending surgery, per @mortreport.
— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) September 10, 2017
Keep your fingers crossed. Darby isn’t a make or break player for the Eagles season, but he is the team’s best CB and you don’t want to be without that guy for all 16 games. The team could get by without him for 6 or 8 weeks much easier than the whole year.
Patrick Robinson will now have to step up and play well on the outside. He did that on Sunday, but doing it for an extended period will be a challenge for him.
It sounds like Darby will go on IR either way. Hopefully it will be IR, designated to return. If so, the Eagles might consider bringing back Ron Brooks to fill his spot. Brooks can play the slot or outside and is a solid STs player. The Eagles could go with C.J. Smith if they want a younger option. They could go for a CB from some other team. I don’t know the best options on the street right now.
Like I said, keep your fingers crossed.
*****
In some ways, the key possession of the game might have been the final drive of the first half. The Eagles 13-0 lead was gone and they suddenly trailed 14-13. Momentum was on Washington’s side.
That’s when Carson Wentz fired up the no-huddle offense and marched the team right down the field and into FG range. Then Caleb Sturgis came out and drilled a 50-yard FG to put the Eagles back in front, 16-14.
That drive had added value because the Eagles got the ball to open the second half and marched down the field and kicked a FG there. That put them up 19-14 and gave them a bit of fudge room. It helps when you are winning by four or more points. You don’t feel like every single play is about to put the other team back in the lead (or to tie up the game).
*****
The Eagles players dumped the Gatorade bucket on Doug Pederson. Zach Ertz said after the game it was the players way of showing their support for Pederson in a week where a lot of speculation by a couple of sources about a possible power struggle. The players like Pederson quite a bit and wanted to let him know that and also to let others know that as well.
That doesn’t mean the anonymous reports will stop, but it does show Pederson has the support of his players.
*****
I re-watched the defensive snaps last night and two things stood out.
First, Malcolm Jenkins had a great game. His stat line won’t blow you away (4 tackles, 1 PD), but put on the tape and watch #27. He was all over the field. You see him in the box, playing the run and blitzing. You see him in man coverage, locked up with Jordan Reed. You see him playing deep and then attacking receivers in front of him.
Jenkins was very physical. Kirk Cousins ran the ball on an option play and got loose to the outside. Jenkins got over there and slammed him down hard. It was clean, but that’s what you want. Make the QB pay on those plays where he runs the ball. Jenkins broke up a pass when he was deep and then hit the receiver as he tried to catch the ball. He also was a handful on blitzes. Jenkins didn’t get to the QB, but he either ran over the blocking back or drove the guy back into Cousins on multiple plays.
It still blows me away that the Saints let this guy go. Jenkins was in his prime. Smart. Talented. High character. Durable. What an insane move.
*****
The other thing that stood out was the pressure on Cousins. Too often people think of pressure as multiple DL hitting the QB as he throws. Don’t get me wrong, that’s the fantasy of every defensive coach in football, but coaches are smart enough to know pressure isn’t always that blatantly obvious.
Cousins rarely had a clean pocket. He might have his OGs being driven back toward him. He might have Brandon Graham coming off a block and starting to the inside. He might have Tim Jernigan getting past his blocker. There were times when he saw blitzers flying at the line of scrimmage.
All of this affected Cousins. He got hit plenty, but even on plays where there wasn’t actual contact, the pressure affected him. There was a 2nd and long situation where he threw out to a checkdown receiver by the sideline for a minimal gain. I wondered about that live. The tape showed a rusher starting to come free so Cousins went ahead and got rid of the ball.
The INT by Jalen Mills came when Jenkins and Jordan Hicks blitzed up the middle. Cousins threw the ball while falling away and it sailed over his receiver and right to Mills for a game-changing play. Hicks pulled up rather than risking a roughing the passer penalty (so, so smart), but he affected the pass and created the turnover.
Beautiful.
_
I considered this our third preseason game. The Eagles played it conservative in the preseason and didn’t play our starters much. I think they were hoping to knock the rust off in the first game and still eek out a win, which they did. Hoping they gel more as the season progresses.
Didn’t play our starters much….huh…explain…because Wentz played every snap…are you talking defense…
Sorry, I meant we didnt play our starters much in the preseason so my guess is they were thinking we would minimize risk of injury in the preseason and try to knock off the remaining rust in the first regular season game
“Our” ? You don’t play or work for the Eagles, you fantasy child
I think there is definitely a chance. The offense can definitely get better. We had a rough day on first and second downs it seemed like. Seemed like there were a lot of 3rd and longs, which we actually did pretty well in 3rd and long and also overcoming penalty yardage, but you can’t reliably sustain drive doing that over and over. All we got to do is clean up the penalties, get more productive on 1st and 2nd down, and I think the offense will be pretty good.
THIS WAS A DIVISION GAME.
You don’t mess around in a division game.
‘our”? You don’t play, you fantasy little boy.
Great win, D played well along with ST. O still needs work. Get rid of the quick sideline outs, PLEASE!
I can’t upvote this enough. The sideline out pass must go.
Everyone made fun of Chip for emphasizing blocking from his WRs (and yes, he went too far), but now we’re seeing the other end of the spectrum. These plays are beyond worthless, because the Eagles’ WRs can’t block a turtle. It’s too bad, because they are useful plays to help spread the field, and the Eagles finally (again?) have some WRs that should be dangerous with the ball, but the blocking on them is just brutal.
Like a turtle, I did see a few Eagles’ WR including Jeffrey get put on his back on one of those plays and struggle to get back up.
Nothing about those plays are good for us.
A) we don’t have that ultra dynamic kick/punt returner type that you want to manufacture touches for
B) The WR’s aren’t willing blockers, even though Smith played for Chip for 2 years.
C) about those blockers, you can’t go out and block anyone until the pass is caught. This is a huge problem as Wentz isn’t good at these throws. Even taking accuracy out of the picture he doesn’t take the snap and quickly flick it the way you need to so his release takes too long, and he floats them without any velocity so it takes too long to get there. Defenses are keen to “hey there are multiple WR’s over here and none of them are running routes”, if you run this play you have to have the ball out to the perimeter nearly instantly to give your guys a chance.
Wentz is the #1 reason I want to eliminate that play. It’s a “quick play” that takes too long to develop.
Please make Doug aware of these points asap. Actually, it would be prerable if you could let Howie know that Doug should not be calling plays!
The outs are fine, it’s the idiotic screens that even my girlfriend -who’s seen about 30 seconds of football in her life -was like “why do they keep doing that?”
Seems like it should be in the playbook but they need to get a LOT better at it. And until then, keep it in the back of the playbook… past the index and glossary…
For as much as we all dislike Pederson’s gadget screens/laterals, let’s not forget how he is evolving. His use of Ertz was absolutely outstanding.
https://twitter.com/PFF/status/906990130778529793
Moving Matthews opened things up for him.
Iggles offense would be pretty interesting with two Ertz’s. On my wish list for next offseason.
I rather a young version of Celek so we can have a TE help with blocking
You’d hope the 2nd Ertz can block, yes. I just mean another mobile TE with size.
Wasn’t Celek initially bad at blocking in his first few years? At this point I’ll take a pass catcher who is a willing blocker, who can possibly grow into a technically sound blocker…Everyone wants the match-up nightmare pass catching TE who also blocks like an offensive tackle. But there’s really only one guy that is great at both at the moment.
Would you settle for two Kelces?
Is this a trick? Travis or Jason?
Or…do you mean adding Travis and keeping Jason. Hmm…
That’s what makes it a dilemma. You get Travis, but have to keep Jason.
Wow, that diabolical.
I agree he’s evolving and growing as a coach, but this might not be the best example. Ertz has been a nightmare for Washington for some time. It’s unclear if Ertz will be a central pillar of our offense now, or if he was just heavily featured against a team that has no one to cover him.
I really hope this is the year that Ertz becomes an absolute star and it’s not a Redskins thing. There are positive signs. Anytime a play busts, like he trips, he immediately just goes right to Ertz. He’s the new safety blanket in the absence of Matthews.
I was shocked by the amount Schwartz blitzed. It probably wasn’t as much as I thought, but it looked pretty frequent for a Schwartz defense.
Yeah, the broadcasters were going on about how Schwartz loved to blitz. I mean, come on, you have all week to prepare for your broadcast how about reading just one blog on the teams that are playing.
Yeah, they were talking about Schwartz like he was Jim Johnson .
Schwartz may not love to blitz but damn do I love it when he does.
from PFF…
OG ISAAC SEUMALO, 34.1 OVERALL GRADE
Patience is always needed when developing starters, particularly on the offensive line, but Seumalo’s performances remain highly frustrating. Although adequate in pass protection (one hit & two hurries allowed on 46 dropbacks), he looks ill-suited to executing the Eagles’ running scheme. On one series of plays with Philadelphia trying to run down the clock, Seumalo missed the same assignment three times in a row, allowing Washington’s linebackers to consistently penetrate. With impressive depth up front, it remains to be seen how long the Eagles persist with their current front five.
CB JALEN MILLS, 60.3 OVERALL GRADE
After a rookie season where Mills was one of the lowest graded corners, he was targeted 15 times against Washington and gave up 10 catches for 108 yards, while he gave up a lot of yards he was able to limit the big plays to just one and keep everything in front of him.
is that a good or bad grade for mills?
Bad.
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8763021/PFF_grading_scores.png
unfortunate, he seemed like he played fine.
The disclaimer being that there is absolutely no way to grade every player in the nfl overnight and have those grades be worth a damn
I’m not standing by any of their grades, but it is absolutely possible to grade every player overnight. Heck, Fran Duffy has breakdown on the Eagles Twitter feed already.
Below is a link from 2015 that shows an analyst in London who takes 6-hours to complete a preliminary grade on Thursday night game. His grades were completed before the sunrise in New York.
In 2015, PFF had 80 employees and I can imagine it has grown since then. It is my understanding they have much more in financial and analyst/personnel resources today than 2 years ago.
https://www.si.com/2015/01/25/pro-football-focus-nfl-neil-hornsby-cris-collinsworth-analytics
Yeah I don’t buy it. You can broadly break down big plays and quickly. Or jot down every time a player stood out good or bad on a quick watch. But you cannot observe every player, every play, knowing their assignment, technique, etc, over night. I know this because I tried. You cannot know what Tommy does for you until you do.
“After a rookie season where Mills was one of the lowest graded corners, he was targeted 15 times against Washington and gave up 10 catches for 108 yards, while he gave up a lot of yards he was able to limit the big plays to just one and keep everything in front of him.”
That is literally stating your bias based on last season and reading his stats. We literally have software in the mental health field where you can check symptom boxes and it writes a narrative based on what you check and it looks better than this.
Cheap
Fast
Quality
You can have 2, and I can tell you which one you’re not getting with PFF.
That article was from 2 years ago. As of this summer, Pro Football Focus now lists 27 teams as clients.
Although some NFL teams may prefer fast and cheap, I’d imagine most are looking for quality first.
Just because they’re clients doesn’t mean that they buy their grades. More likely it’s that they use PFF to tabulate stats that they don’t want to go through the trouble of getting themselves. Does a team want to know exactly how many steps Dez Bryant took today? Pay PFF. Especially in something like advanced hockey stats, somebody has to literally watch the game footage and count zone entries, and if someone is already doing that, it’s probably cheaper to buy that info than it is to waste your coaches time doing it.
ESPN and many other services already offer stats that can be downloaded into excel spreadsheets. Why pay for analysis when the stats are easy to get from other sources?
…because that’s not all of the stats.
Does ESPN tell you how many times WAS was in a 3×1 set? How many times Vinny Curry fell down? How many times Crowder used a double move out of the slot? How many times Cousins audibled?
These services exist in the same way that the Daily Show hires people to watch bullshit news and mine it for material. You pay a guy to find the stats that you don’t feel like counting. In this case, the ones that aren’t going to end up on a score sheet, but may or may not make a difference to the person buying it.
You seem to know a lot about these services. Are you a scout?
Nope. Just done a lot of shitty things for money and researched a bunch more.
“Just done a lot of shitty things for money and researched a bunch more.”
That sounds like a good tagline for a new show on Netflix or Showtime.
2 Broke Girls
How to Make it in America
Girlboss
…all were pretty terrible.
I’m thinking more along the lines of Jessica Jones-style.
So better for Mills.
A ‘D” isn’t an ‘F’
That’s what I kept telling my dad when I was in college.
Bad?! Bad?! Mills is off the charts!
Actually, literally, there is not place where a score of 60.3 fits into those categories.
I’m looking forward to seeing some All-22 on the OL. They’re not always what I focus on in the live game. On Wentz’s scramble TD, I tried to figure out who had given up the pressure, and it was Seumalo that got driven back into Wentz’s face. No idea how he did the rest of the game.
Notably missed Barbre yesterday inside. He was underrated a bit last year here and the Broncos are supposedly pretty high on what they think he can do for them as a starter.
I hope Barbre has got insurance, because that’s always the kind of thing that gets said right before an injury…
Also@Tommy….2 weeks of CFB and no update to the Scouts Notebook..
This was such an enjoyable victory. Opening game, on the road, Wentz is an NFL qb, broke the Washington jinx,the D front 4 is awesome, Ertz showed up, Pederson got a Gatorade bath. Great start to the season.
First Fran breakdown:
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/videos/videos/All-22-Review-Breaking-Down-The-Biggest-Plays/e2832733-da3f-4742-823a-1bb0fdc11d80
This is weirdly one of my favorite parts of the football season. Great to get into these breakdowns and see what is actually going on on the football field.
God Fletcher Cox is a monster. Love that swipe. Also how many DL can scoop a fumble and is fast enough like, oh yeah, he’s gone (he didn’t have to go too far, but most big guys I’m waiting for someone to come from behind and chop them down at the legs). What an athlete.
even in slow motion, i have to watch multiple times to see everythign that happened. Crazy how some people can break down tape so quickly
I know he was banged up, but the fact that Reed didn’t absolutely kill the Eagles is stat-line enough to show that Jenkins had a good game.
Jenkins was amped up when he was covering him (just the way he reacted when Reed dropped it when he was in tight coverage), you can tell that was his mission.
Who was on Crowder? All I heard this off-season was hype on him manning the slot position. I know he’s pretty dang fast too, so whatever we did to take him out of the game was awesome.
He was injured and a gameday decision to play. Think he will be a bigger challenge in a few weeks.
The pressure was notable at times even from Long (who whiffed on an easy snack when he came in unblocked in the 1st half) and Curry who had a few hits & hurries yesterday.
Jernigan also helped them to generate more pressure from the middle too and gave them a notable boost over Logan.
Skins weren’t able to get the running game going at all and don’t have a dynamic dual threat back though. Curious to see how Logan’s absence is going to play out over the season especially against teams that can better establish the run or try to run the ball more when leading.
The WASTEAM has a legitimately good O-Line too.
The depth and motor of the Eagles D-Line just wore them down. Maybe that doesn’t happen later in the season. Let’s hope the Eagles keep it up.
Yeah they do and they were healthy too. Didn’t see much from Barnett yesterday. Seemed like he only played in a handful of snaps and didn’t register a hurry/hit/sack.
The games dynamics helped to play into the Skins passing so much though especially in the 1st half after they got down 13-0 early.
Skins’ media ripped Gruden after the game for going away from the run so early and largely abandoning it in the 2nd half despite it being a close game.
Barnett had good pressure on one play and was tackled by an offensive lineman with no holding call.
Save for busting out a couple big plays vs us, fat Rob didn’t have success on the majority of his plays against us last year. I really wouldn’t think Tim is a downgrade to Bennie, in any regard. The Ravens have never had issues vs the run with him there.
Speaking of officiating, I was watching the game without sound and I’m still confused on how we ended up with a 1st and 19 after a penalty. What penalty is worth 9 yards? It was not in a Half the Distance situation, and if they were tacking it on at the end of a run, wouldn’t it have been 2nd and 19?
Was it a hold that happened after 1yd had been gained? I was confused by it myself and I had the sound on.
But I still don’t see how that answers the question. If they tack it on to the end of the run, it would be 2nd and 19. If it’s a repeat 1st down situation, it would be 1st and 20.
Here we go, found it in the play-by-play on NFL site:
(9:58) (Shotgun) 11-C.Wentz pass
short left to 43-D.Sproles to WAS 47 for 1 yard (54-M.Foster). PENALTY
on PHI-71-J.Peters, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at
WAS 47.
That was the Peters block in the back
Maybe it’s just an irregularity in the rules, but I feel like either they shouldn’t have given us the 1 yard or a repeat of 1st down.
It’s a dopey rule, but legitimately enforced.
If the block happened downfield and the play went for a touchdown, the TD would be called back and it’d be ten yards from the foul -replay down.
Holds on running plays are spot fouls — 10 yards from the spot of the foul, instead of the original line of scrimmage. If a hold is behind the line of scrimmage, that can be more than 10 yards back for the next play.
I thought holds on pass plays were from the original line of scrimmage, but maybe after the reception is made it can be a spot foul. This was an illegal block though, which may be treated as a spot foul if downfield. Sometimes you see those when there is a long gain but an illegal block is made downfield, you get 10 yards from the spot of the foul but it’s still a decent gain.
That’s what happened.
I think the penalty is enforced from the spot of the foul, which in this case was not the original line of scrimmage but 1 yard past the line of scrimmage, and the down is repeated. So that makes it 1st and 19.
Also, Dak looked terrible. Giants might as well just play max protect every play with only OBJ running routes.
Dak rarely shows any anticipation with he throws. He needs to see it first, and if nothing is there after 4-5 seconds he takes off on his feet. This means he is going to be very safe with the ball and have a high completion % because he is just not taking any kind of risk, which translates into high QB ratings and yet pedestrian counting stats.
He is perfect if you have a legendary OL and running back to carry the load, his safety and keeping drives on track by stealing 3-5 yards on well covered plays really matches up well with his skill set. However, if that OL starts to break down, or they cannot run the ball consistently then Dak is going to suddenly need to throw people open – something he has never shown he can do with any consistency.
He also is terrible at throwing on the run, something we have the luxury of seeing done well with Wentz
So…he is Donovan McNabb?
Nah. I loved 5, but he was never particularly accurate, unless he was on a hot streak.
But that wasn’t what Fufina was saying. Throws to guys after they are open, limiting turnovers and being safe with the ball, lacking anticipation. That was McNabb’s modus operandi.
Yeah, so McNabb and he shared faults, but Dak is more accurate.
Prescott has a LONG way to go before he’s Donovan McNabb. McNabb was a top 5 QB in his prime and went to half a dozen Pro Bowls.
Not to mention being a big part of why our team went to 4 straight NFCCG and a SB
Probably not a bad idea. Glad they didn’t address their line this year.
No major ligament damage for Darby. Out 4-6 weeks:
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/907249629472985095
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
https://evolpcgaming.com/uploads/monthly_2017_06/59382a93d274a_giphy(1).gif.bc5b0ad410cf6612bd80cb668c3b9b95.gif
Random memes suck. If you don’t have anything worth saying, maybe just don’t post at all.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d2d6c126a894271de833978e185e30feb4bd1ce268a76ae9ec8e47b1813b15cf.jpg
hell no. That’s like saying players should not celebrate but rather go offer thoughtful analysis. I’ll take the celebration.
http://media.phillyvoice.com/media/images/Cox-Jernigan_2.width-704.gif
urine idiot
Generally, yeah. Specifically, nah.
Win just got so much better.
That was literally the best case scenario. Better to be lucky than good!
Holy shit that is some amazing news. Every now and then you get a lucky break, even as an Eagle fan/player.
Did anyone else notice the trainer try to push his foot into the correct position? yuck!
I did that with a friend’s pinky finger after he got it stuck in the whistle of a Nerf Turbo Whistler football and it was pointing to the side 90 degrees. A pinky felt as gross as it looks. I can’t imagine a foot.
Expect a call from Brian Baldinger
I think of Ric every time I see Baldinger talking and waving that thing around.
Maybe I could have healed him.
Or in this case, confirmation of no break.
So definitely out for Chiefs, Giants, Chargers and Cardinals.
Then it is the Panthers and WASTEAM again to take us to six weeks.
Then the 49ers and Broncos before the bye.
It’s early in the season but, I feel confident we should win every one of those games except maybe the Chiefs. Home opener in Arrowhead is going to be brutal, but every other game there looks eminently winnable. Cards and Panthers looked a little more intimidating before week 1, both teams were pretty underwhelming.
Then Niners should be a cakewalk, and Broncos is TBD, but potentially a really tough game. I think best case scenario we could be 7-2 at the bye.
Chargers game is a really tough one on the West Coast.
I would be happy with 2-3 though @ Chiefs, Giants, @ Rams, Cardinals, @ Panthers especially if they beat the Giants and one of the Cardinals/Panthers.
Losing to the Rams or Chiefs mean less (AFC) and both are tough road games.
Did anyone get the impression that Lane Johnson was overmatched physically at times during the game?
Guess we don’t need to know the results of his drug tests. He’s clean.
I’m not an expert about OL play but I am confident that the rust of live game and going against Kerrigan explain this and he will rebound.
Yeah. Kerrigan is a great player.
I think he was physically fine. I saw some issues with his vision. He struggled with identifying a stunt at one point. Another time he was down field as part of an escort, just looking the completely wrong direction as a guy went right in front of him to make a tackle. Some technique issues here and there. He’s physically gifted, but the same old problems haunt him. He needs to be a better Tackle.
INTERIOR OL was much more of a concern. And giving Peters an extension when he can’t complete most games.
Extension spread his salary cap hit over a longer period. It was in the team’s interest as much as it was in Peters’.
Pretty sure the extension was mostly cap relief.
It might be a bit premature to draw conclusions like “most games” at this point.
No. Kerrigan is a good player- Lane put him down a few times, Kerrigan did the same thing. They ran some stunts and schemes that gave us trouble, but it’s game 1 of a long season.
Yes
Kerrigan is a beast. He has a high motor, good set of pass rush moves, and athletic enough to outmatch most OTs.
Jenkins, “high character guy”, he kneels during the anthem, great player, but he isnt a high character guy in my book,
Well at the end of the day eagles players are the ones who decide who is and who isn’t a high character guy.
coming from a french guy
Yup a citizen that like his country respects his transatlantic friend and respects highly the common goal to fight for liberty and freedom of speech. Voltaire’s compatriot salutes you.
Not sure what the guy said who you are replying. Just so you know, he is most assuredly a troll. Don’t get too caught up talking with him. (I don’t know what he said because he is blocked).
There are lots of NFL players who beat women up, get arrested for drugs or illegal firearms, are deadbeat dads, or have all kinds of shady criminal associates, but they stand for the anthem so they’re all good.
Malcolm Jenkins is a model citizen and highly respected on and off the field but engages in a harmless political protest you don’t like so he’s not high character.
Okay then.
He is a long-time troll. Block and ignore him moving ahead forward.
Nah he didn’t kneel, he raised his fist.
“Jenkins got over there and slammed him down hard”. Cap’n Kirk had something to say about that too. I imagined it was something along the lines of gee golly nice tackle Malcolm!
I wonder if Malcolm asked him if he liked that?
It’s funny watching the washington team… With Cousins at the helm, I think they look like a really good college team. It’s been so frustrating watching the Eagles lose to that team, and I am overjoyed that the D-line had a big day yesterday and shut that crap down. I just don’t see a team with Cousins as their leading rusher as a team that should be able to win any NFL game.
My two big take aways from yesterday:
I love Wentz. He ain’t perfect, but boy does he have it. He needs to get the mechanics sorted. I ain’t to worried about it. Brady was damn near 35 before he had an amazing deep ball.
The deep ball vs the secondary scares the shit out of me, but the d-line LOVES it.
According to McManus, Wentz was blitzed on a career high 47 percent of his dropbacks, per ESPN Stats & Info. Unfazed, he went 11-of-18 for 119 yards and a TD.
On, the Flip side, PPF stated Dak was 3 for 7 with no TDs against pressure last night in the Giants game. I understand it’s not apples to apples since pressure is in the same as blitz.
Wentz was good vs Blitz last year too. Not surprised to see that.
Stats
2016
Wentz under pressure 19th in the league
Wentz without pressure 28th in the league
So, he was relatively good, yes.
Meanwhile, Rodgers was ranked 1st under pressure, 10th without pressure.
Dak ranked 5th and third.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/quarterbacks-and-pressure-2016
So he was better under pressure than without. Really not attempting to compare him to anyone else. As I recall he was also much better vs the blitz with Lane.
Relatively. He was better without pressure (everyone is), but he was more effective relative to the other QBs in the league under pressure.
Context: Wentz played with garbage receivers and a mediocre (at best) running game.
Dak had among the best of both of anybody in the league. Rodgers has elite receivers if not an elite RB.
The reality is the production was sub-par. The interpretation of that is the “art” of analysis, and where the fun and hopes and dreams comes into it.
The point is that football is a team sport and that statistical production is an imperfect measure of actual quality of play. Wentz had receivers who couldn’t consistently get open and even when they did, dropped the ball more frequently than any other group in the league. Prescott had receivers capable of bailing him out even when he made bad throws. One cannot look at statistics like completion percentage, YPA, or QB rating and pretend they exist separate from these realities.
I need do no more than remind you that Nick Foles had one of the best QB seasons in NFL history and has been proven over a larger data set which includes less favorable team circumstances to not even be a starting caliber NFL QB. The eye test matters. Wentz passes it. Prescott does too, but in an Alex Smith way, not a superstar level franchise QB way.
I agree that the situation was in no way comparable. Where I will disagree is the projections about being a superstar QB. People are getting overexcited about Wentz’s spectacular plays and discounting Dak too much. The best QBs are not necessarily the most athletic. It’s not the highlight reel that is the true test of the QB, but the reaction/diagnosis speed, decision making, and accuracy. Brady and Manning were not the GOATs because tacklers bounced off them and they threw TDs out of the endzone.
Of course, the plus plays are great and very helpful and will prove the difference in many games. But look, that’s sandlot stuff. I think we all could see that when we watched Vick or Newton, etc., that the flashy stuff isn’t sustainable, not the basis of a great QB.
Wentz’s success is going to depend on his brain, skill development, and accuracy. The highlight stuff is just the icing on the cake. If he can put both of that together, he’ll really be something.
Alex Smith is a very solid, borderline Pro Bowl QB. I don’t think that comparison is discounting Prescott. Brady and Manning excelled because of unrivaled accuracy and knowledge of and ability to read defenses, in addition to arm strength. Dak isn’t necessarily deficient in any of those areas, but he’s not close to on their level, and it remains to be seen if he will be. Anything’s possible of course, but he will be defying the odds if he develops into one of the handful of smartest and most skilled QBs to ever play the game.
What is exciting about Wentz is that there are no physical limitations holding him back. The areas of the game where he is still raw are things that can be worked on. He can conceivably reach Alex Smith-level consistency and understanding of the game, but Smith will never be able to duplicate his ability to carry a team by making great individual plays or salvaging something out of nothing. I think Wentz has a higher ceiling than Prescott, but that’s not a knock on Prescott, because Wentz’s ceiling is very high.
Well, my point is really that QBing is about quick diagnosis and accurate throws, not athleticism. Wentz is athletic and big, but those are secondary qualities for a QB. Dak is lucky in that he has great tools to work with, not only for current performance, but in that it will help him develop in a progressive way. He’s not being thrown into the fire and expected to make lemonade out of lemons every snap. Wentz’ performance has been about commensurate with the level of tools he was given (last year), which was poor. The highlight reel plays are there, mixed in with inaccuracy and indecision. I feel his progress can be judged on how his becoming more consistent (that is, consistently good, not bad), and on correcting the mechanical flaw. Playing sandlot football is typically not a good way to improve these skills. The thrilling escapes are thrilling, but taking a big step to the left and firing a strike, while requiring less athleticism, is the essence of the game IMO. So I will be yelling and cheering when he pulls off a Roethlisburgeresque plus play, but I don’t think that sustained success lies in that direction.
It’s about a lot of things, quick diagnosis and accuracy very high on the list among them. But having those tools AND elite physical talent is better than merely having those tools alone. A guy who has the ability to improvise and make good things happen when the play breaks down is always going to have a marginal advantage on a guy who doesn’t all other things being equal.
I wouldn’t qualify Wentz’s performance last year as “poor” though – he certainly wasn’t great, and was mediocre at best if being judged by the standards of a veteran QB with a league average supporting cast. But his performance was right in line with what is typical for a rookie on a bad team, even one who later goes on to become an elite QB (he had a higher first year passer rating than both Mannings, Andrew Luck, and Donovan McNabb, among others). The guys who perform at an above league average level as rookies (Brady, Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, etc.) are almost invariably the ones who are drafted by already good teams.
Wentz looks every bit an inexperienced 24 year old greenhorn who only started 23 college games and is in his second NFL season.
However, he’s clearly a transcendently talented 24 year old greenhorn. He made half a dozen plays yesterday that only a handful of guys in the league are capable of making. If he marries his pure physical talent with polish and a deeper understanding of the game, he’s going to be a perennial All Pro.
Meant to make a post about it but here is fine. Was out and about before football listening to Ravens pre-game yesterday. They were talking shit about Flacco (as usual).
Former skins GM Vinny Cerato mentioned how Wentz has to be kicked out of the building at 11pm. Means nothing but good to note.
http://www.phillyvoice.com/brandon-grahams-dominance-against-redskins-gif-form/
Grizzle the wrecking ball. I couldn’t be happier he’s finally getting to do his thing. Imagine his career if he hadn’t been injured/jerked around different positions and schemes for years. Dude coulda been an all time Eagle. Better late than never.
My two big take aways from yesterday:
I love Wentz. He ain’t perfect, but boy does he have it. He needs to get the mechanics sorted. I ain’t to worried about it. Brady was damn near 35 before he had an amazing deep ball.
The deep ball vs the secondary scares the shit out of me, but the d-line LOVES it.
They’ll hook up on that deep ball I’m sure, he and Smith not quite on the same page yet, one was too deep and one was too shallow.
My favorite part about Wentz is he’s a gamer, if he makes a mistake it doesn’t carry over into the next drive. Gotta love a short memory at QB.
“if he makes a mistake it doesn’t carry over into the next drive. Gotta love a short memory at QB.” Huge for any successful qb. I hated that about Sanchez.
Yeah, it’s frustrating to watch a QB sort of spiral into a terrible game. With Wentz I have faith that even if he threw 4 interceptions he’d come out the next drive ready to roll like always. It’s an important trait for any player really.
Yeah but on the flip side he skill makes ill-advised throws and holds on to the ball way too long (taking too many sacks which are drive killers and hits).
Having trouble remembering any ill-advised throws yesterday actually. As far as holding the ball you kind of have to take the good with the bad. Forcing the secondary to defend more than a few seconds is when big plays happen.
Even though it was slightly tipped, the pick 6 INT was an ill-advised throw regardless. There were 3-4 other times when he threw into traffic and was lucky it was not picked off. Reminded me of Foles in 2013.
Yeah the Pick 6 INT was just a bad decision from the get to and it was a poor throw to boot.
Throwing in traffic is one thing but I hate when he tries to rifle in into tight double coverage or goes deep throwing into double coverage.
Dude… the ball got tipped at the line, that’s why it flew right into Kerrigan’s gut. Why are people not remembering this?
It was only slightly tipped and was a very risky throw even if thrown clean. Kerrigan was right on top of the route with a wide open lane to the end zone. Sproles would never have been able to stop him.
It is ok to question Wentz and his decisions. This is not the first time he has made ill-advised throws and turned the ball over. He’ll get better at it as he learns.
That deep throw to Jeffrey into double coverage was a really glaring one in the 2nd half.
Safety made a nice play to knock it out of Jeffrey’s hands but it easy could have been an INT too.
Vaugely remember the play. Didn’t remark being the wrong read at the time. Gonna have to take your word on that one.
I’m a 5 fan, but the guy didn’t dramatically improve over his career. I think that taints a lot of Eagles fans’ view of QBs. Likewise, Vick, even though he was in his second act never became the QB we hoped.
Rodgers, even after sitting for a couple seasons, improved over the years. Rothlisberger had a great rookie campaign and fixed the holes in his game over time.
QBs can improve. If Wentz does, the Eagles are in good shape.
I disagree. McNabb developed into a true pocket passer running the offense over the years after coming into the NFL as mostly a run first QB. He retained the ability to escape the rush and improvise, but looked to pass rather than run over time.
Injuries/wear and tear took their tool as well as McNabb adding a lot of pounds.
I bet he was at least 30-35 pounds heavier in his last year or two here vs his rookie season.
I agree.
McNabb’s problem was that he peaked at 28 and was never able to maintain that level of play, let alone get better.
Mc Nabs biggest problem was The fat guy forcing him to throw 50+ times a game
..to the worst reciurvers in nfl history
Pre TO, yes, post TO, not so much.
Making it even more wtf .. the body of the TO fly (Pre/1/Post) is 1 yr .. thanks andy .. TO was nuts but he was also out best wr ever and a tiny bit of gm’ing excellence wudve could’ve Keith him happy .. but no, Andy was the bigger ego …
AHHHH !! don’t get me started. .memories life the corners of my mind
He had the same flaws in 2006 as he had in 2000.
Being a “pocket passer” isn’t necessarily a development of his skills. His flaws as a QB weren’t that he wasn’t “pocket passer” enough -they were his mechanics and his reads.
He was still a really, really good QB.
After watching last nights game I’m licking my chops to play the Giants. They could hardly slow down the Cowboy’s tepid pass rush, I can’t wait to see what Graham and Cox do to that crap OL.
That was my takeaway from last night. Their RB’s and TE’s are awful blockers as well as their Tackles so they cannot even effectively bring in extra blockers. Graham, Curry, Long and Barnett should sharpen their knives, as they are going to be doing some eating.
Long should probably look into a net rather than a knife. Better chance of him tangling someone up with it as he goes flying past them unblocked. 😛
Omg I had forgotten about that play since we won. That was an awful play. Would have forced a 4th down and a punt.
On the drive before the half, I’m just happy Carson didn’t lose his mind and throw an INT this time. He tries to be a hero when the game is on the line and throws picks. Then again, he *almost* threw a pick with that under throw to Torrey.
I only managed to watch the 2nd quarter or so (had to take daughter to a birthday party WTF!), but there was a stretch where it seemed an opposing defender had a hand on about every pass. Then, half an hour later, they were up multiple scores. Wish I could watch the 2nd half.
I’ve got it on dvr .. cmon over. . u near 14th & Park ?
Hey DaveH, thanks for the offer! I’m in Arizona 🙂
Strange that McLane isn’t waiting to confirm with Schwartz that this is really the plan…
https://twitter.com/Jeff_McLane/status/907273627812470784
If it’s true, I think Rasul will be a pleasant surprise for us. Gonna miss Darby.
Luckily, not for as long as we feared.
1 big hit and he’s gonna realise he can play at this level
Next man up, that’s how it has to be.
Was McDougle suited up yesterday?
Nah, inactive. Him and Douglas. I’m nervous about Douglas, I think he can play but it sounds like he’s still learning, based on TC reports. Could be rough if he’s not ready, but we’ll see, maybe he’ll surprise us.
Gonna have to play sometime; he doesn’t have a choice now. Mills went through it, he’s got veterans behind him in the secondary, has a week to get coached up some.
He’s going to struggle- but that’s part of the growing process. Gotta let him go through it.
Tyreek Hill might toast him next week tho.
He toasted a number of good players with NE. Kind of expected.
Yeah, I was just poking fun at McLane’s article claiming Schwartz was trying to usurp power.
Anonymous Player is Doug Pederson.
Will this change be made before or after Schwartz launches his palace coup to depose Pederson?
NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport reports Eagles K Caleb Sturgis will “miss several weeks with a quad strain in his plant leg.”
It is unlikely the Eagles will burn a roster spot on a kicker if he is going to miss multiple games, so it is possible he is sent to injured reserve with the intent to bring him back later in the season. Philly will work out kickers this week.
Aren’t teams limited to a single player who returns from IR?
yes. I would rather use this on Darby.
I think I’d rather risk someone stealing our injured kicker even if we don’t use it on Darby. I would just cut him for a few weeks.
From what I understand (so, maybe?), he gets an injury settlement for a certain number of weeks pay. After that runs out he is free to sign with another team. I would expect that we could convince him to return to us. Players aren’t dying to get out of Philly.
I’m not sure that Sturgis is waiver exempt yet. Definite possibility he gets poached if we go that route.
Ah, right. Is he that young?
Darby can get IRd. Sturgis can on the 53 and be a game day scratch. Douglas would have been a healthy scratch anyway.
New kicker takes Darby’s spot.
two players
The rule must have changed in the last year or two then..
thats what this article said: https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/9/11/16288780/caleb-sturgis-injured-eagles-kicker-philadelphia-try-outs-work-out-free-agent-list-nfl-redskins
Didnt verify that tho
So is it safe to label our kicker as injury-prone!? What a joke..
Dude needs some smoothies.
Big loss.
Wonder if this will make Pederson more aggressive on 4th down again especially until Sturgis is back after the bye.
Cant put Darby and Sturgis on return IR..
We can. They changed the rule to allow to “designated to return” players per team.
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/5/23/15654976/nfl-officials-approve-rule-allow-2-players-to-return-injured-reserve-per-season
THIS SHIT ASS SITE IS LATE BECAUSE YOU PEOPLE ARE FUCKING MORONS.
Irma is your mom, a big blow
Pass
All-22 Review: Breaking Down The Biggest Plays
https://youtu.be/-u0R4kC6u1Q
cool breakdown on the play where Cox got the FF. i thought he just lined up at DE, but it turns out that Graham dropped back into coverage. The overload blitz to the other side gave Cox a 1 on 1 against the RT.
Eagles vs Redskins post game show 9/10/17
https://youtu.be/hC0IvjCxcbg
“It still blows me away that the Saints let this guy go. Jenkins was in his prime. Smart. Talented. High character. Durable. What an insane move.”
Saints Jenkin was considered near a bust. The change of scenery/coaching was great for him and us.
NOLA also thought they were trading up by signing that S from the Bills.
He was a turnover machine for a while. He just couldn’t stay healthy.
Yup that too. The Saints had a small window with Brees and thought Byrd could help give that defense a true playmaker.
and Jenkins hasn’t been great at getting INTs in his time here… a LOT of almost-INTs IIRC.
Saints probably thought they were trading ‘almost-INTs’ into ‘INTs’. a high-powered offense with a ball hawking defense getting lots of turnovers is a good thing to have.
The Saints clearly didn’t know what they had, like at all. I remember us fans weren’t really thrilled with Jenkins instead of Byrd and I think T.J. Ward was the other big safety on the market. Turns out the Eagles made the right move.
That’s easy to say with hindsight. Jenkins was drafted as a CB but then switched to safety after his rookie year (I think). He wasn’t amazing as a safety as well but he was a still a good locker room presence with upside. Saints Jenkins is pretty much like Mychal Kendricks, talented but couldn’t put it together to reach that next level.
It’s easy to understand why the Saints were ready to move on, luckily for us Jenkins is just a late bloomer.
I remember his presser when he arrived. Asked about his strengths and weaknesses, talked about being smart and great in coverage. For weaknesses he talked about tackling. It was striking how self-aware he was. He wasn’t going to engage in false modesty or pretend to be the best in the league. Very honest, and he improved his tackling tremendously. Tons of respect for that.
NO isn’t exactly known for getting the best out of their defensive talent.
Great eagles scouting. .who’s credit is this?
Its been long enough, I can say it now. It was me.
Ok nice. But what have you done for us lately
You’ll see
Can’t wait .. you’ve set the bar high .. I’m with you, we all are
God bless.
Are we bringing back Cody Parkey?
CP kicks for Miami. Added after preseason.
‘Phins cut last year’s PK Andrew Franks.
Thanks AC. The last thing I heard about Parkey was the Browns cutting him.
Wait, didnt Sturgis kick for the Fins before we signed him? Did we just swap kickers?
Rewatching the game, I have trouble containing my excitement about Carson Wentz.
His physical skills are still raw in places, and he clearly doesn’t yet have a veteran’s understanding of NFL defenses, but the pure physical ability to be not just a top 10 QB but an All Pro is clearly there. Many other people have already said this, but some of the plays he made yesterday really are ones that only a handful of guys in the entire league can make. Cousins is a good point of comparison – while he’s smart, accurate, and competent, and will carve up a defense if given time, he’s never going to make a play like that TD throw to Agholor, or that backpedaling sideline completion to Ertz with two guys in his face. Just doesn’t have the physical ability.
It’s such a good feeling to have a franchise QB after the 8 years of purgatory we endured following McNabb’s departure.
with more time to reflect, i still really believe only a handful of QBs would have won that game, even with the great defense. The story of the game is how Wentz bailed out the o-line, and the o-line coach. If Wentz was Cousin’s like, or just above avg in mobility, and calmness in the pocket (other QBs, not many, have his mobility, but not also his strength so would have gone down with some of those hits he shook off, but also would have gotten deer in the headlights look and panic), Wentz would have been sacked so much, we would be all talking about how the o-line sucks, etc… o-line should take Wentz out this week for steak dinner.
also just love the thought when the o-line gets their act together, and if Wentz ever gets Brady or Dak like protection, it will be awesome.
Defense gave up 10 points. D-line created 3 turnovers. Washington team at 27% third down conversions. My one bone to pick with the defense was the lack of tackling on the Chris Thompson TD… that was ugly.
8 penalties… Doug has to find a way to bring that number down.
(side note) KC with 15 penalties?!
Yeah there were a couple of forgettable plays on D but overall, we really took it to them.
Will we see another shutout this year?
My guess is, not until the return of Darby.
the penalties is my biggest gripe from the game.
but it was awesome to see us get a 1st down after some of them…last year, a 5 yard penalty was a drive killer.
side note: can anyone explain the lack of intentional grounding on that one cousins pass?
I too would like to hear more about why Cousins was allowed to “Eli Manning” his way out of an intentional grounding call.
before seeing the replays, my first thought was that the refs claimed he just overthrew the RB that was still in the pocket. lame excuse, but at least it was an excuse.
after the replay, it looked like the RB tried to escape out of the pocket up the middle of the line, while the pass was thrown more towards the right side of the line. the pass definitely wasn’t intended for the RB… so i got nothing.
Apparently the running back that was helping block was close enough to where Cousins threw the ball away. In reality, the running back was nowhere near where the ball was thrown.
But really glad that Person was giving the ref an earful about it! I hate when the coach never barks the refs
As much as I hate the rule, the eligible receiver do not need to be looking towards the QB and can be blocking as long as the QB throws near him
My issue is not that the RB wasn’t looking, it was that he was in the center of the line and the QB threw a high ball to the right side, nowhere near where the RB was.
My biggest gripe is letting guys get open deep… well letting Pryor get open deep.
I got to watch a replay of some of the early part I missed yesterday.
1. Kendricks absolutely crushed Kelley. Just took him from full steam to on his back.
2. The Kerrigan pick 6 was preceded by the guy that tipped the ball also smacking Wentz in the face, full palm to the facemask. If that play had come back, we were poised to rout them. Big momentum shift.
3. On the FG drive before the half, it started with a deep ball to Agholor that the Breeland made a great play on to almost pick it off. Credit Agholor for breaking it up, because another score by WAS before the half could have changed the game.
They got quite a few calls to go their way.
As always, the officiating was second rate and home cooking was delicious.
Re no. 2 I am absolutely flabbergasted that everyone seems to be talking / complaining about the forward pass late in the game while nobody has been discussing this obvious penalty which was never called in favour of Wentz and the Eagles that has made this game unnecessarily close.
Half the people don’t seem to even realize the pass was tipped at the line, citing a poor throw by Wentz ?? IDK man.
Me too. I guess because we won anyway, but that should have been a big deal.
Did anyone say anything about that penalty? I noticed that on the replay and thought it was a bit odd.
I didn’t see anything.
Dude, where the heck is GE? Season is going now and still MIA.
Here here.
You have it recorded ? Mom serve dad any St Pauli Girl drafts ?
Yes I watched it re-live yesterday. But there wasn’t any St Pauli beer.
He made the foolish choice of enrolling his daughter in youth soccer. Rookie dad mistake.
Yes yes not that GE, GE Eagle
There’s only one GE.
Oh the RaInMaKeR gE EaGLe yeah havent seen him around in awhile
I kinda miss his rants in a weird way
…his daughters… plural.
Yeah, it feels that way…but go to every game you can. My older son decided to give up soccer in favor of other activities this year and I already miss it a little.
Sammy Sleeves with the dink and dunk in full effect. It’s like death by 1000 paper cuts.
And usually it’s his own team that dies.
Looking forward, one tidbit, it looks like David Johnson might be out still with his wrist injury when we face the Cards. Carson Palmer looked pretty mediocre and Larry Fitz is finally slowing down it seems like, so I think the Cards might be an easier game than at first anticipated. We’ll see.
Stefon Diggs is the most underrated WR in the NFL. Dude is a stud.
Maryland.. all we do is crabs and football.
And Lax ! Men AND Womens NCAA Champsthis year !!
Yeah of course it’s the state sport, but isn’t the line in the movie!
Remember watching him when I was a freshman
Jimmy & Co love to make fun of Sammy Sleeves throwing short of the sticks but he’s been 17-20 for almost 200 yards with 2 TDs in the first half.
Never understood the hatred towards him.
Agreed, although the Saints D is absolutely putrid
Yup. Saints defense is abysmal. Classic Sleeves, putting up stats against garbage teams or in garbage time.
He made those reads, audibles and throws legitimately – Bradford played very well. It is ok to give him some credit even if you hate him for whatever reason
I don’t hate him. I just don’t think he’s a better than average NFL starter.
I hope he does well. Besides, he got us Barnett.
Was literally coming just to post that
First decent OL I think he’s ever played behind.
Captain Checkdown. On 3rd & 8 he’ll dump off to the back for 4 to keep from getting hit.
7+ pass plays of over 20 yds tonight….time to put the hyperbole script down for at least one night
So he’s having a night. Good for him. Remind me of their record at season’s end.
Just trying to be objective, like GermanEagle said I’ve never understood the hate, but if he stinks in a game I’ll admit that too
Stefon has stardom potential. Can you Diggs it?!
Losing Darby really hurts when trying to cover Hill next week. We have nobody to keep up with his speed. OBJ the week after. Let’s go DL
So Hill is okay? He went off to have his head checked last week.
Also, the Chiefs lost Berry, so that balances out Darby, I guess?
Hopefully our young guys surprise us. That would be nice.
Tony Romo is a much better color guy than Rex.
Did not see Romo, but… I’d have to imagine most color guys are better than Rex. Nothing incredibly awful, but bland and uninformative. They had some third sideline person narrate some side piece on the Chargers coach — that was shockingly bad. Beth Mowin at play-by-play is fine. I think she’ll get another game this year, with a different color guy (Jay Feely).
Beth wasn’t too bad, it was just different at first having a female voice. I also saw the third guy. I could barely understand him.
Allen Robinson out for year with torn ACL and Kevin White with 3rd serious injury, broke his shoulder.
Allen Hurns has fallen out of favor for Jags and Dede Weatbrook was put on IR so now Bortles is effed.
Damian friggin Square sighting.
We out hear struggling with Darby out, and Denvers Roby having a hell of a day once again, while being the 3rd best CB on his team. Doesn’t seem fair to me.
We could have drafted Roby if Chip could have put up with non-choir boys.
Or Jason Verrett if he didn’t wanted corners to be 6’0 or taller, or whatever that height thing was.