Exposed?

Posted: December 4th, 2017 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 182 Comments »

The Eagles opened the 2000 season by beating Dallas 41-14 in the legendary Pickle Juice game. The Eagles ran for 306 yards and held Dallas to just 167 total yards. They knocked Troy Aikman out of the game and just physically dominated the Cowboys. The upstart Eagles sent a message to the rest of the NFL that the losing ways of 1997-99 were over. This was a new team.

The Giants didn’t get that message.

In Week 2, the Giants beat the Eagles 33-18. The Eagles needed a late TD to even get that close. The Eagles were completely overmatched and gained just 237 yards. The teams met again at midseason, this time at the Meadowlands. The Giants won 24-7 and held the Eagles to 192 yards. The teams met in the postseason and the Giants won 20-10 and held the Eagles to just 186 yards.

Those losses weren’t due to bad calls. They weren’t due to bad gameplans. That wasn’t sloppy football. The Eagles simply weren’t good enough to be a top level team. The Eagles weren’t even really competitive in those games.

The Eagles went 11-5 that year. They were good. They had five blowout wins (margin of 14 or more points), but they needed help from the opponents in those. There were four non-offensive TDs in those games. There were 11 takeaways in those games. There was a successful onside kick in one of the wins. There was a successful fake field goal in one of them. That team finished 17th in yards gained and 10th in yards allowed. They were good, but nothing special.

The current Eagles just lost a tough game at Seattle. That has some people wondering if the team got exposed. They beat up on some mediocre teams and then lost to their best competition in a while. That shows this team isn’t that good, right?

Wrong.

You don’t have a 9-game winning streak if you’re not for real.

You don’t win three straight games by 28 points if you’re not for real.

The Eagles are still the top scoring team in the league. They are 3rd in yards gained. The defense is 4th in yards allowed and 6th in points allowed. They are still the best run defense in the league. If you prefer analytics, this team is still going to be ranked highly in all the DVOA categories.

That isn’t luck. That isn’t a fluke. If the Eagles were 10-1 with a bunch of close wins and then lost at Seattle, you could possibly make the point the team was exposed. The Eagles have been too dominant this year. They are a legitimately good team.

Think about the loss. The Eagles out-gained Seattle,  425 to 310 yards. Donnie Jones only punted three times. There was only one 3 & out the whole game. The Eagles sacked Russell Wilson twice and had him under pressure throughout the game. It was only due to his sorcery that he wasn’t sacked another five or six times.

Seattle had one TD drive aided by a questionable PI call that gave them 19 yards. Seattle had another TD drive aided by an illegal forward pass. They should have been punting there because that happened on a 3rd down.

Carson Wentz fumbled the ball at the goal line. The Eagles should have had at least a FG on that drive. Wentz overthrew Nelson Agholor on a play that might have been a TD. The Eagles should have had at least a FG on that drive. Wentz threw off-target to Agholor for a play that did gain 32 yards, but a better throw there might have led to a TD. The Eagles should have had at least a FG on that drive.

Seattle was the team that got the breaks. The Eagles were the team that made the mistakes.

The Eagles aren’t good enough to play sloppy football and beat good teams, especially on the road. That’s the lesson from this game. The Eagles were put in a tough situation and they didn’t handle it well.

If the team learns from that, this can be a valuable loss. Sunday night is what playoff football feels like. Frenzied. Tough. Physical. Unforgiving. Postseason football is on another level. You cannot make a bunch of mistakes and expect to win. You have to play smart and execute well. You have to protect the ball.

We’ll find out how much the Eagles learned when they take on the Rams on Sunday. That’s another playoff team.

_


  • myartz04

    This article is good analysis. To me it was just a weird game. They were just off. Perfect play call on 4th down and Barner stumbles coming out of the backfield. The refs were terrible. I think when they lost the challenge on the spot earlier in the game, that was clearly a first down, affected whether or not to challenge the illegal forward pass. I think they had won the challenge earlier in the game, Doug throws the red flag there without worry. It was just one of those games. Alshon’s hold essentially killed a TD drive. Dumbest rule in sports caused a turnover at the goal line which was looking to be a TD drive. They played sloppy and still should have won the game minus a couple bad breaks and bad calls. Frustrating loss but on to the Rams. Also, what an incredible pass Wentz made down the sideline. Didn’t have his best stuff but still makes you say “wow” every game.

    • Frencheaglesfan

      I disagree with the touchback being a dumb rule. Incredible effort by Richardson and that needs a reward not just a loss of down. If that was fletcher doing this goal line stand I would have been pissed about not being eagles ball.

    • Masked Man

      Yeah it was a weird game. I say burn the film and move on.

      • BC1968

        Study the film and learn you mean. lol

        • Masked Man

          I’m not saying ignore the issues.

          But sometimes it’s best for a team not to dwell on long drawn out film study of a frustrating loss. Old coaching technique.

          Give the team a pass. Work on the issues outside of film study.

          Burn the film and move on.

  • #1EaglesFan

    Tommy, What did you think of the conservative game plan that they came out with. It appeared to be a huge departure from how they have played this whole year. Were they overawed by the occasion?

    • P_P_K

      My name isn’t Tommy but I’ll pipe in, anyway. The 1st half game plan was awful. All those passes to Smith, and only one target to Ertz and none to Jeffery. With Sherman and Cam out, it was an opportunity to slice and dice the Seahawks The gameplan wasn’t working and I wish Doug didn’t wait until halftime to make the necessary adjustments.

      • Forthebirds

        Agreed. Doug played it way to conservatively. Why stop being aggressive when it’s worked all season. I get running the ball a lot to keep the ball out of Wilson’s hands, but the Eagles threw 4-5 passes half way through the 2nd quarter. Doug should have thrown the flag on the forward lateral, not on the placement of the ball when Carson has made those short yard plays virtually every time. I am not blaming him for the loss, but he didn’t help any.

    • bdbd20

      I do wonder if Doug was concerned about the pass protection. Seems like Clark and Benenett were getting really good jumps.

      Doug might have wanted to adjust at halftime to make sure Carson doesn’t get planted. I really didn’t have an issue with the 1st half gameplan. Can’t attack deep if defenders are hitting the QB.

  • P_P_K

    For the first time this season, the Eagles didn’t have the best qb in the game. Wilson was great and Carson was flat. Like Tommy pointed out, the Eagles left between 9-21 points on the field due to bad passing and that horrible fumble. I hope we see Seattle again in the playoffs. Wentz gets his mojo going and the Eagles can beat them.

  • Brian

    Sloppy and disappointing, but if they come back and beat the Rams, I’ll feel much better. The 2004 squad got annihilated by the Steelers. Hopefully this is just “that game” for this year’s team. Unfortunately the 2004 squad also had no serious challengers for the #1 seed IIRC.

    • EagleOne1983

      Every team has 4 games they play down/lower than who they are. So far those games have been the Chiefs, Seahawks, and Bears. Bears just couldn’t do anything to take advantage of a sloppy Eagles performance.
      If they dominate/play well the rest of the games, I’d say the 1st Giants game was the other down game.

  • Donald Kalinowski

    Maybe the defense was exposed a little bit. The short passing game really killed the defense last year. And Russell Wilson is probably the obly QB they faced this year that was smart and athletic enough to deliver that TD pass to Baldwin on the all out blitz.

    Carson was a bit disappointing but they were still able to move the ball down the field. Blount needs to see less carries. Alshon getting $13 million/year and not being able to dominate Byron Maxwell isn’t encouraging.

    This game also brings to light that the team needs more explosive players on offense.

    • Masked Man

      No other QB in the league runs around like that and eludes the Eagles pass rush ALL GAME. They have a couple of unique home field advantages.

      Russ Wilson is a rare talent. Never seen anything like it.

      I prefer a more conventional QB. But it’s amazing what he does.

      • xeynon

        He’s perfectly effective as a conventional QB as well. The crazy scrambling is only necessary because they have a dogshit offensive line.

        • Gary Barnes

          And because our DE lost edge contain repeatedly all night. We needed to execute the 2004 Vick NFCCG plan, but instead they allowed Wilson to run wild and improvise

          • xeynon

            Wilson is miles better as a passer than 2004 Vick was. That gameplan would not have worked.

          • BC1968

            Exactly. The Redskins did it to Cunningham in the playoffs in 89 I believe it was. Take away the qb’s scrambling ability and dare him to beat you downfield. Wilson can do exactly that. Vick and Cunningham, not so much. The Vick that came back under Reid and dedicated himself to studying game film was much better though.

          • BC1968

            The problem with containing him is that it gives the receivers so much time to get open or get a hold call. Our secondary was fine last night, the pass rush was getting there, Wilson screwed the whole game plan up by doing what he does best.

          • teltschikfakeout88

            How do maintain contain when the QB who is faster than the DE
            is running backwards and using his athleticism to take a cab ride around the contain and then making a long pass or looking to get defensive hold on the or PInon the WR…

        • ChoTime

          I don’t know. He’s short. Like Brees, or Vick (not that the skill level is comparable of course), that causes you to change your playstyle a bit.

      • EagleOne1983

        And why were the Eagles slipping and sliding all game long? That seemed really off/odd to me.

  • xeynon

    That game was not a blowout. The teams moved the ball about equally well and the outcome came down to about half a dozen pivotal plays – big plays the Seahawks made, big play opportunities the Eagles missed, and mistakes the Eagles made. Most of these were a matter of inches.

    Tough loss, but I didn’t come out of that game thinking the Eagles were overmatched. They need to execute better, but they can compete with teams like the Seahawks.

    • Frencheaglesfan

      Not a blowout but the Seahawks O was moving forward way more easily than the Eagles O. And to me that says more about our Pass D being less dominant than we though.

      • xeynon

        I don’t think that’s really the case.

        The Eagles moved the ball close to at will in that game. They had 432 yards and it wasn’t all in garbage time. They only had one three-and-out in the entire game and they had multiple drives that penetrated deep into Seattle territory but didn’t generate points because of turnovers/failed 4th down attempts.

        • Frencheaglesfan

          Maybe I’m wrong but the 432 yards felt a lot like awesome plays by Wentz and Co than proper execution of the O scheme. To me it really felt like the Hawks were moving the ball with a lot more confidence than us.

          • xeynon

            Wentz made one awesome throw on a broken play (the long bomb to Agholor on 3rd and 12).

            Other than that, it was pretty methodical. Lots of accurate, crisply executed mid-range throws.

          • Frencheaglesfan

            Putting it that way I guess I was a bit too harsh indeed. I just didn’t like that they didn’t involve Ertz and Jeffery so much.

    • Gary Barnes

      To me this felt worse than the Chiefs loss. In that game, I left it feeling we could compete with them, but did not execute on the critical plays while they did.

      Last night felt differently to me. They changed their approach, their playing style vs Seattle for some reason and paid the price. Timid and conservative played right into Seattle’s hands. It gave them confidence and allowed them to hang around until they could take control of the game.

      Teams like Seattle need to be buried early and have dirt shoveled over their grave all game long. You cannot give them any glimmer of hope.

  • BC1968

    I expected 1-1 on this trip, not that what I expected means anything. They win next week then there’s no reason this team doesn’t win out. Heck if they lose next week there’s no reason they shouldn’t go to 13-3. Bright spot: Seattle winning hurts Dallas’ playoff chances, I don’t like the trade-off but im happy something good came out of this.
    LOL @ any Dallas fan that was rooting against the Eagles.

    • xeynon

      If they lose next week the first round bye becomes very dicey, so we should rightfully be miffed it happens. Seattle already has four losses so it’s unlikely they’ll pass us for seeding if the rest of the games play out according to chalk, but the Rams absolutely could.

      • BC1968

        You’re absolutely right, but I fully expect them to win next week. If not, then they aren’t the contender we thought they were.

        Back in 2014 after they crushed Dallas on Thanksgiving they came home at 9-3 and everyone was feeling great about them. Ten days later they lost to Seattle at home and everyone was like it’s ok, beat Dallas next week (a game they ultimately lost) and they’ll be ok. I was so pissed after the Seattle game because teams that are serious contenders win that game at home. After that game I didn’t consider them serious contenders. If they don’t beat the Rams then that’s their own fault and they will rightfully drop to three.

        Having said that we’ve seen teams take late season losses and look out of it only to surprise people and roll to the Super Bowl. Think 9-7 Arizona Cardinals and 9-7 New York Giants. This team has the talent to go beat any team anywhere. They won’t have to go to New England or Seattle in the playoffs. If they end up in Seattle that means they totally collapsed and lost games they shouldn’t have.

        • BlindChow

          This reminds me a lot of that Seattle game in 2014. It was the turning point that season. The team never looked the same after that.

          All the optimism that winning brought has disappeared in me, and now I’m afraid we’re on the verge of another such collapse. Ugh.

          • xeynon

            Buck up.

            Carson Wentz isn’t Mark Sanchez, this team isn’t the 2014 team, and that game last night wasn’t as lopsided a contest as that 2014 contest.

            The Eagles this year have been way more dominant than that team ever was, and they also have a much easier schedule down the stretch.

          • A Roy

            Let us not forget that Wentz, Peterson and Vaitai are all 2nd year guys who are still learning. From this, Wentz should learn to control his excitement, Peterson should learn to stay aggressive against strong opponents and Vaitai, well, his ceiling is not as high as the other two. And Schwartz should gain some insight re: defending mobile QBs.
            .
            This team is still on the way up…may have been reading too many good things about themselves (note sloppiness last week vs CHI and comment about tic-tac-toe on the sideline)…and should become better from this adversity.
            .
            Wait another week before jumping from the Walt Whitman.

          • BlindChow

            Yeah, another big game next week. I guess we’ll see if they choke on every level like they did in this one…

          • BC1968

            I think this seems different, this team has a brighter future, better players and last but not least, Carson Wentz.

  • Mac

    I can’t remember the last time I felt the amount of hate that I felt on Sunday night watching Russel Wilson signal “holding” on one of our DBs while I had just seen blatant holding by his oline just 3 seconds ago (with no flag for that).

    Also, when can we expect the worst rule in football to go away? Fumbling anywhere else on the field results in the ball being placed at the spot where it goes out of bounds, but if you’ve taken the time to get the ball down to the goal line it’s automatically awarded to the other team… easily one of the most nonsensical rules in the game right now.

    • Stephen E.

      So you want the ball to be spotted in the end zone, on the -something line?

      • Mac

        Spot it at the 1 or the “inches” line… Don’t really care, but giving the ball to the other team should (in my opinion) only happen if they recover in the endzone.

  • Gary Barnes

    Yes, we played a sloppy game, but the loss was more than that.

    We also played timid, seemingly not to lose rather than to win. It was clear to me from Pederson on down, the team did not fully believe they could win.

    Not going for it on 4th down, not throwing down field aggressively, not targeting Ertz or Jeffrey early etc. showed Seattle we had changed our approach and that we felt we needed to do that to win. They must have been smiling from ear to ear.

    We also played undisciplined, especially on defense. Our pass rush was negated by Wilson’s scrambling, but also because our DE lost contain repeatedly and let him out of the pocket. Wilson was therefore able to extend plays which exposed our coverage flaws and penalties.

    All these issues can be fixed, but the second scares me more than the others because it goes directly to the psyche of the team – a team that is inexperienced and young and not only in the player ranks. This is Pederson’s first job as HC for example. Is he going to be up to the task of playoff football? Can he effectively prepare his team for such tests?

    LA is 9-3 and can pass us in the conference standings if we lose to them. How the team does now after being smacked in the mouth will show us a lot.

  • Donald Kalinowski

    Anyone else having a problem with mobile? The comments just appear as a huge block of text.

    • or____

      Refresh. Wait. It usually just takes a moment.

  • Masked Man

    Five plays made all the difference. Tommy wrote:

    1. “Seattle had one TD drive aided by a questionable PI call that gave
    them 19 yards.”

    2. “Seattle had another TD drive aided by an illegal forward pass. They should have been punting there because that happened on a 3rd down.”

    3. “Carson Wentz fumbled the ball at the goal line. The Eagles should
    have had at least a FG on that drive.”

    4. “Wentz overthrew Nelson Agholor on a play that might have been a TD. The Eagles should have had at least a FG on that drive.

    5. “Wentz threw off-target to Agholor for a play that did gain 32 yards, but a better throw there might have led to a TD. The Eagles should have had at least a FG on that drive.”

    • xeynon

      Don’t forget the 4th down throw to Barner. Collinsworth was absolutely right, if that throw was on target it’s not only a first down but possibly a TD. They had the right play called to beat that defense, Wentz just didn’t make an accurate throw and Barner stumbled trying to get to the spot as a result.

    • Gary Barnes

      Woulda, coulda, shoulda….they did not execute and therefore did not earn the win. We can blame it on those five plays, but need to ask why they happened and what can be done to fix the issues that led to them. As many of us have said, nothing is promised or guaranteed – it has to be earned every game all over again.

      • Masked Man

        I’m only saying that the game was closer than it looked, in agreement with Tommy.

        That team is tougher at home than on the road. And you add the referee factor there, it was just a weird circumstance last night.

        Lots of stuff Carson and Doug will try to do better. Not sure the defense can do much more if nobody can catch the QB.

      • xeynon

        Absolutely true, but the point isn’t that the Eagles need to be sharper to win these types of games – everybody acknowledges that.

        It’s that this wasn’t a case of being dominated and having no chance to win against a superior opponent (i.e., “being exposed”). It was a game that easily could’ve gone the other way if you change the outcome of even two or three plays.

      • Frencheaglesfan

        I so agree with this. What about the plays that Seattle did not make? and what about the horrendous awareness by Maxwell on that amazing throw by the Wentz that could have been quickly viewed as an awful one. It was blatant for me that the game was more one sided that we tend to make it which doesn’t mean that the Eagles are less good than the Hawks just mean that they lost, convincingly.

        • Masked Man

          There’s about 130-150 snaps in a pro football game. There’s five plays that seem to make all the difference.

          • BC1968

            This. Especially when two good teams are playing. The better team will make the 5 plays that win the game. Not saying Seattle is a better team this year, they were the better team last night. Next week will tell us everything we need to know about this team.

          • Frencheaglesfan

            My stand is not so much about contradicting you cause I def share your frustrations about those 5 plays that could have changed the game but more about placing our expectations for the future. Those plays would have changed a past event and we can’t do that but our focus should be about fixing other issues that costed us the game. Discipline (a factor that hurts us since week 1), Taking care of the football, Helping Big V, …

          • Masked Man

            Just saying that the game was not as bad as it looked. Russell Wilson doesn’t even do all that for 16 games every year.

            We had a sort of a perfect storm with no room for error on our part. Lost the game. So we move on and clean up what we can.

          • Frencheaglesfan

            Again I don’t follow the Hawks cause except of Russell I hate everything about the Cowboys of Washington State, but this guy needs way more credit than you guys give him. He is playing out of his mind this year, he is the seahawks O himself, we knew that and still he dominated us (and I think our D is nothing to laugh about).

          • Masked Man

            Wilson is 8-4, second in the NFC West division, and trying to catch up with us. He’s not the perfect answer to everything going on with his team.

            Last night he put it all together and he’s hot at the right time.

          • Frencheaglesfan

            Sure, he’s not perfect, but compared to Wentz, Dak, Brady getting most of the credits on team performance, Wilson’s team was so doubted when they lost the legion of boom that I feel like the way he has answered is crazy impressive and may finally give him the credit he deserves, what happens in Seattle since 5 years is not caused by their D.

          • Masked Man

            Well they whipped our butts last night. I’m not so interested in becoming Russ Wilson’s fan boy today. Go Eagles!

    • BC1968

      The unnecessary hold at the goal line on Blount’s run. This stuff was supposed to be cleaned up. They didn’t learn from last week’s mistakes against the Bears? Should ‘ve, would’ve could’ve is reality against good teams, we can’t say if this happened or if that happened, the fact is they lost. I never buy the ref excuse, we had a play where Darby hooked the guy’s helmet that should’ve been called that would’ve extended a drive by Seattle. We only look at the calls that go against us.

      • Masked Man

        Just saying that it was stressful and frustrating, but not necessarily as bad as it looked. Five plays and we could be reading about a hard fought win last night.

        • BC1968

          Agreed, we can’t go crazy about losing at Seattle in prime time that snaps a 9 game winning streak, it may be one of those wake up call losses they needed. They absolutely have to beat the Rams next week though. If I had my choice, last night was the game I’d want them to lose out of the two.

          • xeynon

            Yep. A loss to Seattle hurts less than a loss to the Rams in terms of potential playoff seeding. The Seahawks can’t pass us for playoff seeding without a collapse on our part over the last four games, as even with last night’s result they’re two games behind us. The Rams still can.

          • Masked Man

            Vikings have @Panthers, Bengals, @Packers, Bears to close out the season.

            Eagles have @Rams, @Giants, Raiders, Cowboys.

            We’ll see how the games play out over 4 weeks…

          • BC1968

            We could jump right back to number one this weekend. Looking at both schedules, looks like the Eagles have to win out, Dallas will probably mean something, just not for the Cowboys.

  • Forthebirds

    This is the first game where Vatai had a negative impact. His play is my biggest concern going forward. Eagles played sloppy, Doug called too conservative a game, especially in the first half. The Eagles were bound to have a flat game. Nine game win streaks are pretty rare, but you can’t have them against playoff caliber teams. The Seahawks are now third on my hate list after Dallas and the Patriots.

    • xeynon

      Vaitai had a few bad plays but I think his struggles are being exaggerated a bit. Carson had plenty of time to throw on most of his dropbacks. Wilson was under far more duress throughout the game.

      I think where he had the bigger impact was in the conservatism of the game plan – I suspect part of the reason Doug’s game plan was so heavy on runs and quick passes in the first half is that he was concerned about the Seattle pass rush.

      • P_P_K

        I think the concerns about Big V may be in part to expecting him to perform on a Jason Peter’s level.

    • Masked Man

      Carson had more blind side pressure than I’ve noticed all year. It looked like the games from last year when he was running all over the place.

      Last night he constantly ran out to his right side. Fred Clark blew past V after a second or two on many plays.

  • Frencheaglesfan

    Other winner in that game: Lane. This guy just takes away the best rushers in the league every week and makes it look easy.

    • Masked Man

      LJ held his own and blocked Mike Bennett all night.

    • P_P_K

      His performance against Bennett was stellar.

  • BC1968

    I, for one, am happy. Im an Eagles fan who had to endure 9 weeks of being content. Wtf? Life seems a little more normal today.

    • Frencheaglesfan

      Lol, and as a true Eagles fan you also irrationally feel like next week will be way different, right?

      • Masked Man

        Well the Eagles can pressure Jared Goff and stop the run.

        Goff doesn’t do anything near what Wilson did last night. Carson’s talent and experience level should be much better.

        McVay’s a good coach, but he’s not on Pete Carroll level. And the crowd factor in LA is nowhere near as intense.

        Just like the Chargers game, there should be tons of Eagles fans.

        A few key reasons while next week should be different…

        • Frencheaglesfan

          Something I really like about our matchup next week is that Goff can’t run.

          • BC1968

            Yeah they should crush him, I’m looking forward to the Eagles D and Schwartz make him look like a rookie.

          • Masked Man

            Wilson is one of those scary QB’s you hate to face. Brady, Rodgers, Brees are on the list. Super Bowl winners.

            Goff is another young guy out here and Carson is equally experienced and more talented.

          • Donald Kalinowski

            Goff can run and he’s mobile. But no where close to the level of Wilson

        • Mac

          Another west coast home game.

    • ChoTime

      It’s funny, as Chinese water-torture that game seemed last night, in a way it let me relax because the last nine weeks just didn’t really seem like real football to me.

      I wonder if when Trump gets impeached, his supporters will have a similar mix of emotions.

  • MattE

    We aight

  • BC1968

    How much did Doug learn about the importance of running the ball after the Chiefs’ game? I liked that he learned from his mistake and fixed it. He sounded like an idiot after that game saying that they didn’t run because they couldn’t get the run game going. In reality hey didn’t run because they didn’t run.
    It’s encouraging how he fixed that mess. I fully expect him to fix this and open it up this week, realizing he can’t play tight against a good team.

    • xeynon

      Even within this game they adjusted. They came out after halftime much more aggressive throwing the ball and had success.

      Whatever weaknesses Doug shares with Andy, stubbornness isn’t one of them.

      • BlindChow

        But, like Andy, Doug inexplicably stops doing what’s working every few games.

        Why did they go conservative in the first place? He shouldn’t have needed to adjust in the 2nd half…

        • Insomniac

          Exactly, don’t know what happened this week but he has to stop that shit.

        • Howie Littlefinger

          Its a young team better to learn this lesson in December than in January…

      • BC1968

        Agreed. As much as people are putting this on Doug, im not trying to contradict myself and I do hate using this term, but he did put the players in position to win, score, etc. Think about the throws to Agholar, one was way overthrown which looked like he had a clear path for a td , the other was so severely underthrowm that Nelson had to go to the ground to catch it. If you look behind him on a wide angle that was possibly a td too. Plus after halftime they drive right down the field before Wentz fumbled. So yes, Doug put them in position to succeed but still, he did some questionable things I hope he learned from. Looked like the Dallas first half, except you can’t do that against better teams.

  • MattE

    Found this picture of Howie, not sure why but it made me feel better after the loss

    Some quick hitters I came up with for the picture….

    1) “Only you can prevent salary cap fires”
    2) “Only you can prevent Chip Kelly”
    3) “Don’t do drugs”
    4) “Cause Howie said so”
    5) “The Roseman Law Offices only collects if you win”‘
    6) “If you can’t beat em, trade em”

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/59d70fdfea607d9fa50f82d2b8d5e860c65391f453d35ea0e5af336a6c9b35a3.jpg

  • Eagles4life

    Some catch phrases to use for venting it out:
    WE HAVE BEEN FIGURED OUT!!
    WE ARE EXPOSED!!
    ALL THE PREVIOUS WINS WERE AGAINST TEAMS WITH LOSING RECORDS!!
    EAGLES ARE CHIEFS 2.0!!
    EAGLES WILL NEVER WIN A SB!!

    In all seriousness, we need to come out pissed as hell next week and not repeat the same mistakes! Question is how do we rebound from it?

    • Ark87

      We don’t have to use them, we get to hear all the other fans say that shit to us. Along with the Mike Lombardis and Skip Bayless’ of the world. That’s why I’m pissed.

  • MattE
  • Koy: The Legend of Neckbeard

    Will we see Beatty at LT on Sunday?

    • Insomniac

      No

    • Sb2bowl

      Nope. No reason to bench Big V. Everyone has bad games, Seattle ran a lot of stunts that our line didn’t pick up well.

      • BlindChow

        Seumalo only had one bad game, too…

        • Insomniac

          Seumalo probably kicked Stoutland’s dog or something.

        • Sb2bowl

          I’d argue he had two bad games. Washington and the Chiefs.

        • xeynon

          Seumalo was way worse against the Chiefs than Big V was last night.

          • BlindChow

            He played bad enough to be called HPV again.

      • bdbd20

        As bad as he played, he didn’t cause the Alshon hold, or the Wentz fumble, or the underthrows, or the needless zero blitz. He’ll be fine as long as LJ can work without help.

  • Mitchell

    3 cheers for Agholor though holy cow. What a freakin game!!! Dude could.have had 3 tds last night. Complete turn aroind for him. So impressed.

    • daveH

      Wish he was there to recover CW fumble !!

  • Insomniac

    Hope Doug mixes things up on offense this week. Another slow start on offense will really start making me worry.

    • Rob Jarratt

      It is perfectly clear to me, and should be to the coaching staff, that the Eagles need to jumpstart the offense with the hurry-up mode. I’m sure there are stats that would reveal much better productivity when the pace of play gets ratcheted up.

      I recall the 2nd Skins game where the offense was sleepwalking until it went into hurry-up. Then the points came in droves. Look no further than Brady’s Pats to see how befuddling it can be to a defense just getting set for the next down.

      • Insomniac

        Clement and Hollins usually does it for us. They don’t really get enough snaps, that might have to change soon.

        • Rob Jarratt

          I agree about both. Smith is good for 4-yard out patterns and Blount gets stopped at the line too many times until the defensive line gets tired in the 4th quarter. Clement’s bursts around the end, and Hollins’ downfield catches move the ball.

  • SteveH

    I’m calmer now, last night I was beside myself as we shot ourselves in the foot over and over.

    The real problem with losing last night is it puts us behind Minnesota for first in the NFC, and they’re a real threat to run the table to close out the season.

    This was a big game and we failed the test, but I’ll only start worrying if we keep failing the big game test.

    I am not however forgiving Doug and whoever else on the staff was responsible for not challenging that illegal forward pass. They had already shown multiple angles on the TV feed demonstrating it was a forward pass before the Seahawks snapped the ball. If someone upstairs was communicating to Doug that he shouldn’t challenge it, then that person needs to be removed from their job, because that was grossly incompetent.

    • RobNE

      Doug mentioned he had lost the last one, so you challenge and lose and you are out of challenges. But the lesson there to be learned is don’t challenge the spot call.

      • Mac

        You are challenging less than a yard with the biggest QB in the league at the helm and a penchant to go for it on 4th down anyway… (plus the fact that challenging the spot challenges are very unlikely to be successful)

  • Eagles_Fan_in_San_Fran

    In basketball terms, this was simply a bad matchup, in particular our defensive strengths (run D and rushing the passer) were negated by Wilson’s sorcery (which is a good term to define it).
    That was the way it was back in 2000. I remember all three of those frustrating losses to the G-men, especially the playoff loss. It was like watching paint dry. You just knew there was no way they were going to beat them. It’s also what makes every time we’ve beat them since a little sweeter.

    • DJH

      I’m curious what strategies other teams use against Seattle. I honestly don’t know. 20/20 hindsight, it seems like being ultra aggressive on offense is the way to go, with the goal being 21+ points. Being conservative might keep the ball away from Wilson, but bc he’s so dynamic, he’s a threat to score points with even limited touches.

      Probably best to be aggressive on offense, put up as many points as possible, and hope the defense can limit Wilson’s damage?

    • bdbd20

      We needed to score 24-30 in this game. That’s the way to beat RW. You can’t play a close game with him. Just too dangerous.

  • bsuperfi

    The game looks like a perfect storm of ways to lose a game you could’ve won.
    Losing the turnover battle. Penalties. Refs. Bad coaching calls on a couple key plays. Bad execution on another couple key plays. The other team’s QB playing out of his mind.

    Even with all this and no offensive rhythm, we moved the ball well enough, and certainly better than Seattle. Our defense could’ve held up better on the back end, but it played well enough–the pass rush looked great to me, but Tommy’s right that Wilson was just sorcerous in escaping pressure.

    The key now is to just move on and learn. There was never a chance that this team wouldn’t face road bumps. Just don’t let it spiral.

  • Eagles_Fan_in_San_Fran

    Tommy,

    Can you explain/justify this crazy touchback rule on a fumble in the end zone?
    I’ve never understood it and absolutely hate it, no matter who it happens to.
    I always look at it this way:
    If I fumble it out at the 1 foot line, I get it back at the 1 foot line, but if I fumble it just 1 foot further, the other team gets the ball at the 20?
    Makes absoluetly no sense at all.
    To me, you fumble it through the end zone, you get it back at the point where the fumble occurred.
    What am I missing here?

    • BlindChow

      I mean, if you carry the ball to the 1 foot line, nothing happens.

      If you carry it 1 foot further, you get 7 points.

      It’s the freaking End Zone. It’s not like it’s some random spot in the middle of the field.

      • Ryan Rambo

        LOL

  • DJH

    I personally don’t have a strong opinion either way about Doug’s calls on the 4th downs and the challenges. In big games, those decisions are magnified, so time will obviously tell whether he is able to make the optimal decisions in those moments. I think we need more data.

    I think we can say Doug/Carson were too conservative with the passing game in the first half. All those quick outs to Smith and the RBs were wins for Seattle.

    Also, Wentz was good, but will simply need to be great for the Eagles to go deep into the playoffs. (He doesn’t need to be Rodgers/Wilson out of this world great though.) That means hitting Ags in stride on those two passes, hitting Barber on the 4th and 3, and holding onto the ball on his scramble. If he executes on those plays, the outcome may have been different.

    I’m not sure how I feel about our defense’s performance. I think giving up 24 pts to, essentially, the QB, even a championship caliber one, is about 3 pts too many, maybe 7—if our defense is to be a championship level defense. (Just pulling those numbers out of my ass.) So 24 pts on the road to Seattle isn’t awful.

    But it’s how (3 RZ scores) and when (after Wentz’ fumble and Eagles score) that was so damaging.

    All things considered, this team could have won this game. But when it comes to Pederson, Wentz, and the defense, I am purely in “I’ll believe it when I see it” mode as far as putting it all together to win big games. They clearly can, but have yet to do it.

    • Masked Man

      Barner.

  • MattE

    12/4/17 UPDATE:

    Geno Smith’s run of consecutive starts for the New York Giants comes to an end at 1 game as he is unceremoniously demoted to 2nd string for Eli Manning.

    • Julescat

      damn.

      my fantasy team got a boost from Even Engram having a great day yesterday.

      Back to Eli and maybe 2 targets a game.

    • Masked Man

      Geno had a good run though…. Lol.

    • sonofdman

      This is an outrage. How dare they treat Geno Smith like that.

  • Ryan Rambo

    Gotta knock the SNOT outta Goff, early and often.

  • GermanEagle

    First of all

    My apologies.

    Second time this season i didn’t watch the Eagles live

    Good news: i passed the assesment Center and will be promoted.

    Better news: i will watch the game vs Rams live again

    Mea culpa.

    • P_P_K

      If the first time you did’t watch live was against the Chiefs, then please make damn sure it doesn’t happen again.
      Congrats on the promotion.

      • GermanEagle

        word. Thanks for the congrats.

  • jshort

    Almost never get to see the late game, work. Have it recorded, can’t make my mind up weather to watch it or not.

    • jshort

      Why bother.

      • jshort

        Your right!

        • P_P_K

          That other guy is very convincing.

    • Dragon_Eagle

      If it turns out to be a magical season, you need to experience the season in its entirety or you cheated. The highs are only sweeter for the lows. Watch it and like it!

  • P_P_K

    Kickoffs have been mostly predictable, right? What could be done to make them more interesting. One idea, if the kick goes through the uprights it counts for a point, maybe two.

  • Ark87

    I predicted that the Seahawks would be the best version of themselves that we could imagine, maybe better, the moment we were favored by 6 in their house. The Eagles were not prepared to play that team.

    They came in thinking they were playing the dysfunctional 2017 squad they saw on film. The whole plan was to not be too risky, stay patient, don’t make the mistake that they need you to make to win. What with the crowd noise and pass rush, play it safe.

    That is not playoff football. You will fail if you think you can just take care of business against good teams. You need to gut it out and give everything you got. If we are fortunate enough to win out, there is still a chance this loss makes the path to the Superbowl go through Minnesota instead of Philadelphia. It was a costly loss, the team better have learned the valuable lesson.

    • ChoTime

      It makes sense for the superior team to play somewhat conservative, since you can rely that being the better team for four quarters will probably result in a win. It doesn’t always work, and sometimes you find out you’re not quite as superior as you thought you were.

      IMO Doug’s conservatism and Wentz’s off night just tipped the scales a bit too much.

  • RobNE

    I said this last night, but Gronk’s flying elbow to the back of the head was just shocking. He didn’t get tossed from the game. He got a one game suspension today. That’s nuts. He stuttered step to line up the positioning just right, leapt with all his what 270 pounds and landed with his fore arm/elbow driving a player who is lying out of bounds, driving his head bam, bam against the ground. Far safer to sucker punch a guy straight in the face (assuming he’s not standing right in front of a wall). I’d like to see him file a police report. I’d like to hear Gronk say that was somehow in the parameters of the game.

    So suspended for one game, then the following game is against the Bills again. I wonder, will that be a chippy game? Will the CB go for his knees? It’s safer for everyone to just suspend him two games.

    • or____

      I get you and agree with the sentiment, but the suspension is on par with what other random stupid excessive violence acts get. I think you’re letting your “i live in NE and the pats are atrociously obnoxious” spirit get to you.

      • RobNE

        well it’s a tough burden I bear

        • or____

          Yeah i lived there for a while and get it. Massholes gonna be frontrunning and all.. I got fun out of exclusively wearing a midnight green asante jersey when going through Logan.

        • Masked Man

          Yeah the Crabtree-Talib suspensions were one game for a long drawn out brawl. Should have been longer like maybe three games.

          After you give those two guys one game, you can’t say Gronk was more severe worthy of multiple games. So it’s one or none, like just a fine.

          • RobNE

            A brawl is two participants. I totally reasonably believe Gronk’s actions were worse.

          • sonofdman

            I agree. Gronk’s cheap shot was way worse.

    • ChoTime

      Wonder why he got away with that *cough white player*.

  • or____

    Personally, I find it hilarious that we went from:

    “this team has a chance to make the playoffs and build a solid young corp, but probably not much more than that.”

    to

    “Oh wow, this team is superbowl bound!”

    to

    “It’s a tragedy that we might not be the 1 seed in the playoffs! What a bummer!”

    • Masked Man

      The psychology of rising expectations…

      • or____

        Yeah, I guess but it’s so fickle in a sense.

        • Masked Man

          It’s emotional. Won’t always make sense unless you help it along.

          Roller coaster fans-

          “Oh they’re great! They suck! They’re great! They suck!”

    • Someguy77

      Not getting a 1st round bye would be a huge disappointment given they were 10-1. They would have to lose at least 3 of their last 5 games including the Rams game.

      No reason that shouldn’t happen yet.

      • or____

        We haven’t made the playoffs for how many years and we are so swiftly greedy and almost entitled? Granted, part of me agrees with you, but another part is like seriously?

  • kajomo

    This loss wasn’t us being dominated by a more physical team or a more talented team. This was poor execution, a few poor decisions, and some bad luck. I can live with that. We are still a 14 or 13 win team.

  • Ark87

    Speaking of exposed. Watching these 2 QB’s and the throws they make: QB mechanic wonks. It’s all friggen BS. Every other throw is absolutely improvised mechanics by necessity of 4 to 8 people trying to kill you every play throwing off either foot running either direction, while being tackled.

    “Oh his elbow is high, so he is throwing high”- stfu you pretentious jackasses. We all know these guys can throw to a guy 35 yards down field on target being tackled. Sometimes they just miss.

    This rant is brought to you by 1 of 2 highlight moments of the night, that sick throw Wentz made being tackled, that can’t be possible on this earth.

    • Masked Man

      Aaron Rodgers-like and Russ Wilson-like.

    • ChoTime

      It’s not BS! Why do you think Tom Brady goes back to basic mechanics every offseason? Not every play in the NFL is sandlot style.

      • Ark87

        Still call it overrated at best and possibly total BS, can’t prove that just actively putting in the effort an hours working on your accuracy isn’t what actually causes improvement. Perfect mechanics are for clean pockets only. Which just aren’t NFL conditions.

  • Someguy77

    Didn’t understand how last night was that impressive of a display by the Seahawks’ defense as Collingsworth kept asserting.

    I saw it as more of a few unfortunate plays where the Eagles failed to execute and finish especially the Wentz fumble on the goal line.

    In the first half, the Eagles ran the ball effectively on the Seahawks albeit with too many plays for minimal/no gain. In the second half, Wentz was able to methodically able to move the Eagles up the field by hitting on a number of intermediate passing routes.

    • FairOaks

      Eagles offense did not look all that great in the first half, so it may have been a first impression thing. It looked like all the underneath stuff was all we could do, and that wasn’t enough. Unsure if it was just a way too timid game plan, or if Wentz was a bit too wired and Pederson dialed things down (that overthrow of Agholor was a bit startling), or what.

      But once we started throwing intermediate throws most of the time in the second half, we moved the ball just fine. The fumble at the goal line was the critical mistake. Alshon’s holding penalty at the goal line was probably a four-point penalty. And one of the long completions to Agholor was also not nearly in stride — if that had been better he could have scored that play (think that was the Wentz fumble drive).

  • Sean E

    There’s a timeline where we won the game last night but lost a crucial player to injury…

  • dandynator

    there is just something about having to face bobby wagner and kj wright on everyplay. forgot how fast and physical these 2 were. Also torrey is not giving us enough, 5 yards catches on first down are not cutting it because we already have AJ who is not the best guy at getting seperation althouhgt good wr. which kind of limits the offense explosiveness and what we can do offensively. so we cant afford some fuckery at our 3 wr

    • Guy Media

      Imagine having Bobby Wagner instead of Kendricks?

      2 46 Philadelphia Eagles Mychal Kendricks
      2 47 Seattle Seahawks Bobby Wagner †

    • Ark87

      I’ve been unhappy with Smith since we signed him, but I thought his speed was finally going to pay dividends with Byron Maxwell across from him on at least a handful of plays. I know the organization tried to kill all memories of the Chip Kelly era, but it sure would have been nice if they remembered how bad that dude was covering deep routes against anyone with a whiff of speed.

  • Guy Media

    I’m still not done being livid at the “effort” from last night’s game, but I’d echo Tommy 100% in taking a step back and being optimistic that they’ll run off the next 4 games and finish 14-2.

    • Ark87

      I’m similarly pissed. If the team showed up, from coaches down, that was going to be a glorious game and I have no doubt it would have concluded with victory.

      That said, I can only be pissed because I know the team could have won, so there’s the silver lining I’m moving forward with, onward!

      • Guy Media

        Yup, so they just need to buckle down and finish strong.

      • A_T_G

        You know what would have been worse? Playing our best game and finding out that we lack the talent to keep up with contenders.

        • Ark87

          In the context of this team this year, absolutely, When you think your team is not just a contender, but the best team, having that illusion dispelled would be crushing.

          In a typical Eagles season, the team going out and giving 100% and coming up short to a better team is commendable.

          Playing like garbage in a big game is universally terrible.

    • Rob Jarratt

      I’m in the camp of this possibly being a “good loss” at the right time. Maintaining a winning streak throughout the season and into the playoffs is just not sustainable. I repeat, not sustainable. The loss, which should not have been unexpected, may have come at just the right time. If this team is to progress deep into the playoffs, they need a wake-up call along the way. I say that if this team is legitimate, we’ll see a bounce-back next Sunday. If it isn’t, we won’t.

      • Guy Media

        I’d have preferred that loss have been vs. Oakland, but I get your point.

        • Rob Jarratt

          Now that would have been a real letdown game, but I get your point, as well, GM.

        • sonofdman

          On Christmas? What are you, the Grinch?

  • A_T_G

    That Shazier injury is scary. Partly because it looks so serious and partly because the play looked so mundane. LBs have all made hits like that hundreds of times.

    • daveH

      the frwakin Shazier Rule … this time his head down hurt himself. .. the sport is far too rough and unforgiving to reckless to ever wish injury on anyone. .but damn dude they called that illegal hit because of you and you even wrecked yourself with it. Kind of sickening to watch.
      ..
      This is a mean body bag game of injury

  • daveH

    Thers gonna be a record fine total after this game
    ..
    Announcers ripping the refs and ripping the players. Thers gonna be fines to the players, to the refs and to the announcers .. we better win a ring before this sport goes full flag.

  • SteveH

    Bengals had 173 yards worth of penalties tonight. That’s more yardage than the Bears had against us the entire game.

  • levdog

    I could put up with Carson’s fumble, I could handle a bad call from an official or a missed pass but that Jeffery hold at the 2 yard line sticks in my crawl, so lazy on his part, Eagles have a first and goal – not the first time he has done this, I love him as a receiver but I better not see him hold for the rest of the season.

    • SteveH

      I actually hated all of the mistakes, personally, but yes the Jeffrey penalty was costly. Instead of first and goal from somewhere in the 2-4 yard range depending on the spot we were first and 9 from like the 14. Ended up settling for a field goal. Just one more gaffe in a game full of them.

      • FairOaks

        3rd and 9, pretty sure. So we just had one play to fix the mistake, which we didn’t.

        • A_T_G

          No, Steve is right. We got the first along with getting backed up. I was baffled how it was first and 9 instead of 10 or goal to go. There was a run to nowhere, something, and then the swing to Ajayi that Maxwell shut down.