More QB Talk
Posted: February 18th, 2018 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 155 Comments »There are times when Nick Foles seems too good to be true. That’s one of the reasons the Eagles didn’t want to let him go after the 2014 season. Unfortunately, to make the deal for Sam Bradford they had to give up a QB. Foles regressed during the 2014 season and that’s the only reason the team dealt him. They loved him as a person. He really is the ultimate team guy.
Not everyone is sold that he’s that good.
Of course I’m talking about Mike Florio, the most cynical human being in the history of mankind. Maybe even longer than that. Florio saw Foles hit the talk show circuit this past week and didn’t buy the Mr. Nice Guy answers.
Yes, if the Eagles are handing out Super Bowl cookies, Nick Foles should want the biggest one. As he makes the rounds with TV hosts would wouldn’t have been able to distinguish him from Jon Heder two months ago, Foles danced around the question of whether he wants a chance to get paid a lot more than $7 million in 2018, or to be a starter elsewhere. Considering the full scope of his answers, however, it’s clear that the issue eventually will come up.
“Are you gonna re-sign you say with the Eagles?” Ellen Degeneres asked Foles. “What’s happening?”
Foles didn’t shut the question down by simply saying, “Actually, I’m already signed for next year. So it’s not an issue.” Instead, he gave an answer hinting that a request for something is coming.
“That’s a question that everyone wants to know,” Foles said. “My honest answer, not being politically correct, is all I want to do is just be with my wife, be with my daughter. All that stuff will take care of itself. I’ve been waiting. It’s a long season. We go through a lot. The family sacrificed a lot. Just literally the simple things of just like being there and being present, being at the home all day, being able to go on walks. We have a dog Henry. If I didn’t mention him he’d be sad because he’s gonna watch. Those little things that’s what I look forward to. We’ll see what happens with my career.”
That’s not a commitment to go along with whatever the Eagles want to do. It’s an effort to shift the focus on his career away from the present, with an acknowledgment that the details of his career for 2018 and beyond will be resolved in the not-too-distant future.
Later in the week, Foles was pressed more aggressively on the question of whether he can go back to being a backup quarterback.
“You have to be a starter,” Kimmel said. “You must, you have to be. You’re the Super Bowl MVP.”
Again, he didn’t say something like, “Well, I have a contract with Philadelphia for 2018, and Carson Wentz is the starter.” Instead, he said this: “Yeah, I mean, that’s a question that everyone wants to know. The thing I look forward to — the season’s a long season. The family, my wife. We have an eight-month-old daughter Lily. They sacrifice throughout the year because it’s a seven-day-a-week job, we’re in the facility, come back late. Right now, it’s just focusing on being a husband and father to the best of my ability. This is a time I really look forward to. And then with that part of football, we love Philly. That stuff’s out of my control. We have agents that handle all of that, but we love Philly. We love the situation and we’ll worry about it when that time comes. . . . Yeah, we love Philly. We came back to Philly and they had us. Just to be a part of the community to be a part of bringing the first Super Bowl there. That’s something that’s really special.”
Of course, if it were that simple, there would be nothing for agents to do. Foles would simply be staying put at $7 million for the final year of his deal and then next year would be the time when “stuff will take care of itself” and when “we’ll see what happens with my career.” The fact that he’s not making it clear that there’s no decision to make and nothing to talk about for 2018 strongly suggests that there is something to to talk about — and that it could be Foles’ desire either for a financial reward (much greater than $250,000) to stay with the Eagles or a chance to strike while the iron is glowing.
By pushing it all to his agents, Foles hopes to avoid losing any of the lifetime of goodwill he has earned among Eagles fans. But the agents work for Foles, and all he has to do is to tell them, “I don’t want more money, and I don’t want to be a starter with another team.” Unless and until he does, there’s a chance that the agents will try to squeeze the Eagles for something more than $7 million to continue to serve as the understudy to Wentz.
Ugh.
It really feels like Florio is reaching here.
Foles went to the Rams in 2015 and was absolutely miserable. After they cut him, he seriously contemplated retirement. He was ready to go work in his dad’s restaurant business and also doing youth ministry work. Not exactly Gordon Gekko.
I get where Florio’s cynicism comes from. A lot of coaches and athletes are out to earn every last penny. I’m not naive enough to think every Eagles player will give the team a hometown discount so they can stick around and help the team win another 10 Super Bowls. Brandon Graham wants to get paid. I’m sure Nigel Bradham will be looking for a good deal. Trey Burton is going to get a good contract from some team.
But there are some guys who aren’t out for every penny. After all, you can’t buy happiness. Just look at Eagles history. Plenty of guys left to go chase dollars and came back to play for less because they enjoyed being in Philly and playing for the Eagles. The reverse was true with DeMarco Murray, who came to Philly strictly for the money and ended up making everyone miserable.
Foles was thrilled to come back to the Eagles in 2017. He played for a team he liked. He played for a coach he liked. Yes, he was a backup, but he got to enjoy football again. And he made $4M, so it isn’t like he’s on some minimum deal. Foles is scheduled to make $7M in 2018, which is good money for being a backup.
I’m sure Foles would have interest in being a starting QB and making mega-bucks, but I think that is only true if the situation is right. Which word better describes Foles…missionary or mercenary?
I think this is one case where Florio is absolutely barking up the wrong tree. If Foles leaves the Eagles, it will be on good terms. I’m just not convinced Foles wants out.
*****
Peter King threw out the idea that it would take some team offering two 1st round picks to get the Eagles to trade Foles. Obviously that is insane and won’t be happening.
I’m sure Howie Roseman made it clear the Eagles won’t be giving Foles away so King went with a high guess. It is possible some team could offer a 1st round pick for Foles, but that doesn’t seem likely. I’m starting to wonder if there will be much of a market for his services.
A.J. McCarron will now be a free agent, joining Kirk Cousins, Case Keenum, Tedy Bridgewater and Sam Bradford on the market. There are a lot of interesting QB prospects in the upcoming draft.
The Eagles will be patient. They’ll be at the Combine soon and other teams will approach them to see if Foles is available and what the real cost might be.
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I’m fine with keeping Foles.
Foles was the starting QB to our Eagles Superbowl winning team and it will never be forgotten. But come back to regular season hes going to be backup again. The following season a FA. That following season are Eagles willing to resign some big coin to remain backup? Thats if he wants to remain.
Looks like everyone thinking with their emotions and forgetting the business part. Foles trade value will never be this high. If someone offers some high round picks you have to take it. If not keep him simple. Just remember Wentz is this starting QB. Hes the now and the future. We also need to develop Sudfield or another backup QB for if Foles leaves this year or the following when hes a FA.
What do you imagine the reaction would be of the emotionally-charged Eagle fans if Wentz is laid up, still recovering from a major injury, the FO let’s Foles go for a first and a fourth, and seven games into the season Nate Sudfeld has struggled to bring the Eagles a game shy of 500?
Wentz gets injured hes gets injured. Foles steps in if still here and we might get the Raiders games Foles. The injury to Wentz sucks coz now its like a given hes gonna get injured and everyone doing the what ifs so we need Foles as backup.
Do you try to maximize short-term including trying to repeat next year vs trying to focus on building a long-term core around Wentz with the picks from trading Foles?
Not an easy decision.
I”m not doing a what if…well I am, but I see a legitimate dilemma for Eagles if a sweetheart offer is made. Sudfeld is pretty raw. He could develop from the training camp and pre-season, but I just wonder if the business-savvy Eagle fans will expect HR to get a more experienced back-up if CW is not ready to go at the start of the regular season.
If there is one thing you can’t say about NIck Foles, it is that he is cynical.
i cant wait to talk draft options
i got my eyes on some offensive playmakers, and theres some good options out there
Who do you like?
anthony miller and DJ Chark
miller reminds me of antonio brown and Chark a bigger desean jackson
jaylen samuels would be interesting in dougs offense as well
also a talented WR with off the field issues is antonio callaway, from florida, howie has close ties to that program so he could get some inside insight about him
Thought Florio was a hack years ago. Never liked his style – always giving backhanded, unwarranted comments at the end of articles that never had any substance – just wild guesses. Can’t remember the last time I read anything of his(well, besides the above)…
Why would another team be willing to give up its 1st round pick this year though for Foles without basically working out an extension at the time of the trade?
Basically giving up a 1st round pick for 1 year of Foles.
I’d bet Roseman would be more interested too in a multi-pick deal too – say a a decent 2nd round pick this year and a conditional pick the following year (say a 4th rounder which might become a 3rd round pick).
Gives him more flexibility in this draft and it is a higher 2nd round pick the ability to move down from the 32nd pick, get an extra mid-round pick this year or next year, and still have a fairly high draft pick.
I thought the thinking was he has a great contract which would free teams to use their cap space on other positions. Why would they need to work out an extension ?
My understanding was the years were voidable If he is on the Eagles’ roster come February 2019, the final three years of the deal will automatically be voided and he’ll become a free agent.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nick-foles-contract-would-make-him-a-free-agent-if-hes-on-the-eagles-in-february-2019/
Correct. It’s a four year deal for any team except the Eagles. Regardless, any team would renegotiate that contract before doing a deal.
Even with a 100% raise, Foles is making about half of what Cousins will get. He’s still a bargain. Which is why you give up the pick to get him.
You sure it is just the Eagles roster specifically, and not the current teams’ roster? Hard to imagine an agent letting something like that slip in there, which would just be begging for a trade.
I imagine it was designed to spread out the signing bonus to stay under the cap, but it worked out in Howie’s favor big time.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nick-foles-contract-would-make-him-a-free-agent-if-hes-on-the-eagles-in-february-2019/
Still would be surprised if that clause was specifically just the Eagles. Not sure you can make contracts like that, which are dramatically different just based on the team. Those were mostly to prevent the poison pill contracts, but seems like it would apply here. I still think Nick is under contract for next year but not after that, regardless of team. I would expect the contract would need to be renegotiated for a team to be willing to trade anything significant anyways.
I remember hearing Howie did it for this reason so he had the option to trade him on a team friendly deal.
Then Howie has the hottest hand in the league right now. The more deals he makes, the better. Let it ride.
I don’t know if it was true though lol.
Ah the contract is immediately voided if he’s traded so I am wrong !
https://twitter.com/Jonesy_LJR/status/964647701668417536
https://twitter.com/GeoffMosherNFL/status/964647920799764481
I think Mosher is saying what I’m saying… that the team doing the trade will voluntarily redo the deal. I think. If the last three years of the deal automatically void is he’s still on the Eagles, and they automatically void if he’s traded, I believe that’s legally considered an Impossible Contract and not legally binding.
It very well could be defined by the percentage of snaps played, and the reporters are making the assumption that it’s an unattainable number with the Eagles (assuming Wentz is healthy). But none of the articles I’ve seen are saying that.
Why would they want to renegotiate a great team friendly contract? Why would they want to pay him a lot more?
Because they’re going to have to. Nick’s agent isn’t going to let the Super Bowl MVP start on a backup’s salary.
That depends on how much the other team wants Foles and what stance Howie decides can get him the most return. If he feels it would be the same outcome, he may allow them to negotiate but that doesn’t seem like Howie’s MO.
Love his dog comment. Makes me like him even more.
thought that was cringeworthy, but you still have to love him for it.
The best for both worlds would be Foles wanting to make big money + goes to the right team and we get some draft picks in return. Obviously I’m sure the FO is talking to him about what he wants to do and they’ll respect his wishes.
Is Trey Burton sink shouldst to C McCaffrey ?? I’d rather have burton
what sayeth you?
No they are very different players. In fact they play different positions.
Yep har, dif posistions got it ..but was thinking as in super versatile athletetic types
They both have versatility, but are used in different ways. RBs are becoming the ultimate match up problem in today’s NFL.
They line up in in the backfield and you have to respect the run and keep LBs on the field. McCaffery/Kamara can then shift to the slot and play more like a WR. That’s a big mismatch on that same LB. if you replace that LB with a DB they put the RB in the backfield and run against a light box.
Burton has value, but you can see the RB trend coming. It’s here for several teams and the rest are going to be catching up quick.
Wow awesome insights. Thanks alot kajomo !!
..specifically how the RB can move the D
People forget that Burton actually came in as an emergency RB in 2016. He’s an H-back. He might have the skill to transition to RB. I mean, who knew he could throw a ball like that?
Anyone that knew about him at Florida knew he could throw. He signed there as a QB.
He is not a viable threat to be a steady RB. Burton is versatile, but has limitations due to what is asked of the TE position. He can never be an in-line blocker.
Guys like kamara and McCaffery can do everything and more that is asked of a RB. They are the best match up on the field. I’m not saying Burton can’t be a key piece of an offense, but he doesn’t present the same matchup problems as the good receiving RBs.
One of the teams Eagles fans fantasized was a trade partner was Buffalo because of their bounty of picks. This could throw a wrench into that (if you believe the sources.). It makes some sense though.
The Buffalo Bills have been “calling around” to try and find a way to move into the top ten of the 2018 NFL Draft, according to NFL reporter Benjamin Allbright. He also reports that they are trying to move up so they can draft a quarterback.
This came not too long after Hogs Haven, SB Nation’s blog for the Washington NFL team, reported a rumor that the Bills were trying to trade up to No. 2 overall with the New York Giants, to select quarterback Josh Rosen.
https://www.ninersnation.com/2018/2/17/17023696/2018-nfl-draft-trade-rumors-bills-giants-josh-rosen-49ers
Foles is wired differently from the average NFL player and has very different life experiences and goals.
Nick’s dad is a self-made millionaire. Having money is not a new experience for him.
Nick recently stated he wants to go to the seminary and become a pastor when he is done playing. Unless his goals are to become a mega-church millionaire like Daniel Jeremiah’s dad, Nick definitely isn’t planning his second career to make money.
Based on his post Superbowl interviews, Nick is much more concerned with being a good person and a role model for others.
I can absolutely see him coming back because he has so much in common with Wentz and Sudfeld. I could also see him going to Minnesota to play with Flip.
I fine with either outcome.
I do think Nick is cognizant of his high profile in the Philly market and how he could have a lot of influence on people’s lives outside of the game if he decided to make Philly his permanent home.
I would prefer not to trade him to Minnesota. They’re a conference rival. Now if they had a much better trade offer than others , maybe.
I gave Minny as an example with Flip making it a place Nick would be happy. With that being said, I completely agree and would really prefer him in the AFC…He would be a huge upgrade over Bortles in Jax.
Not a friendly system for Nick. Marrone is into running, running, passing to set up the run, and running. If Coughlin is intent on getting ahold of Foles, I would expect him to bring in a new HC.
The flip side of this would be that he could do more good if he had more money to throw around.
Some more draft talk
I’m intrigued by the idea of drafting a CB high but more specifically by Mike Hughes. Now before you roll your eyes at me, there is a possibility that our CBs will probably not be where we want them to be in the next year or two. Darby is still somewhat of an enigma. Jones is an enigma. We know what we have in Mills. Douglas had his flashes and moments where he got smoked. We may or may not convert one of these guys into a safety in the future.
So where does Hughes fit in? He’s a ball hawk first and foremost. Does Asante Samuel ring a bell? Hughes almost has an identical skill set and size. Perhaps a bit faster than Asante and yes he’s rather bad at tackling (but more willing). He’s also a pretty good returner so two birds with one stone right? He has some major red flags since he beat the shit out of some dude when he was at UNC and got dismissed from the team. There might be other flags as well but the talent is there.
Interesting. I wouldn’t be against a great Cb prospect but no one in 2nd round ish sticks out though there’s a bunch of second round corners.
I was looking at him too and the other corners but we could also look at Isaiah Oliver if they’re good with bad / missed tackling. I’m not sure either of these guys mesh with Schwartz’s preference.
Hughes has only started for a year at corner. That’s one position inexperience makes me nervous.
Yea the inexperience is a red flag to me too but it could be a double edged sword. We do somewhat have more room for error than most teams right now so I’m not against developing high potential guys behind our starters.
With Undlin, I have some faith that Hughes could be developed into a quality starter as long as Hughes is willing to learn. The question is how long will Undlin stay here if we have another season of great success?
Yeah we can wait. If they like him I have no problem taking a CB even if Darby and Jones start this year. Hughes is supposed to be talented.
I think Bryan and Vander Esch are inexperienced too and I’ve been pimping Bryan. Bryan started a couple games as a sophomore and Vander Esch has just one year of starting experience… I’m still haunted by Curtis Marsh the RB convert who played 2 years total at CB..
I think Oliver is incredibly overrated. He would have been a 3rd/4th rounder in last year’s class.
Hughes has huge upside, but is a project. His rawness would be why he is still around in round 2, not talent. If they don’t see Darby in their long term plans than I’d be all for it. The can bring him along slowly while using him as a PR/KR.
Lance Zierlein seems to think Oliver has huge upside and it sounds like he is a project. It sounds like Oliver has a high ceiling as a bump-and-run, lockdown corner according to Zierlein.
Elite size and speed with arms that go on and on for days. Looks the way teams want corners to look. Competitive decathlete. Plus deep speed and explosive leaper. Disrupts route release with long jabs into receiver’s frame from press. Easy to open and sprint against vertical threats. Has tools and trigger to stalk and challenge routes underneath from off-man. Greater margin for error early in the rep due to makeup speed and arm length.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/isaiah-oliver?id=2560060
Oliver has long speed and recovery speed which is what we need and have lacked at CB for years. .
The other issue with Hughes is he caused serious injury to someone reportedly . I don’t know if Oliver has a red flag like that.
He’s entering the draft coming out of UCF, Asante’s alma mater, so if there’s a script, Pats will grab him, win another SB and Eagles will overpay him in free agency in 2022. It’s in the tealeaves.
We reversed the script on the Patriots. They’re our bitches now…
You know…in the world of sports, football is the center of Philadelphia. The Phillies, Sixers and Flyers have their fanatical fans, but pro football is passion #1 in this town. In Boston, the Celtics and the Red Sox and the Bruins are ALL more loved and inspiring to the locals than their football team. The attendance for the the football games used to be so so sparse that the decision was made to stop calling them the Boston Patriots so as to get all of Rhode Island and Maine and Massachusetts and New Hampshire and Vermont fans in the bleachers. How fucking lame is that? Passion > entitlement.
If we traded back and he was there in round 2, I’d take him in a heartbeat.
The problem with CB high is you’re pretty much already at a point where you’re out of reps to give to guys. Yes there is uncertainty, but you’re in a position where you’re extremely well hedged.
A CB who has ability as return man will likely be brought in at some point, I just don’t see value in adding one so high. That’s the beauty of where that position room is righgt now, you can bring in somebody who has great measurables and a defined role (RS) and bring him along slowly. I just can’t see them investing a high pick for that spot. It would kind of be like spending pick 32 on a TE. With Ertz already in place there just won’t be enough ROI for a guy that’s only going to play 500 snaps a year.
Going to have to disagree. There might be a logjam for next year but it opens up in 2019. Darby might get too expensive to resign so that’s one opening. Assuming that Jones/Hughes wins that job then the loser can play slot. Douglas remains the backup unless he can play well enough to dethrone Mills. I’d argue that Mills would be a prime candidate to replace McLeod/Jenkins but that’s not something I can say with confidence.
If your window is more than a few years into the future, logjams always clear and there’s always uncertainty at almost every position. There are other areas where we have significantly less depth and significantly more uncertainty even sooner.
What the hell are you even talking about? The only immediate position that would have to be addressed is LB if Bradham leaves. Your “significantly less depth” positions are still going to sit behind our starters. So what’s your point?
No thanks. They won the SB with the CBs they have, and they have a high pick from last year coming in. You can’t go 6 deep at every position, and at some point you have to role the dice on the unproven guys you’ve already drafted and let them sink or swim.
CB is the last position group I want them to target with a high pick.
Their limitations at CB might be why Schwartz gave up 505 yards in the Superbowl to a senior citizen.
Darby was a high pick they invested significant draft capital to trade for. Sidney Jones was a high pick. Rasul Douglas was a moderately high pick. These are all young players who have all proven themselves to be serviceable at times and are still ostensibly developing within the system, along with Mills. At a certain point, you just have to bet on the young talent you’ve already made significant capital outlays to acquire at a certain position continuing to improve rather than continuing to throw resources at it.
Taking a CB in the first round means NOT using our best asset in this draft to address a position of significantly greater weakness, such as OT, LB, TE, or WR. That is way too big an opportunity cost to pay.
As for the Super Bowl, if you didn’t know Brady was 40 you wouldn’t guess it from his play given that he’s still playing at an elite level. As I said, it wasn’t a good performance, but it’s not like the Eagles’ DBs were the first or only secondary to get lit up by the Patriots this season.
Oh sure they won but I can assure you that the CBs only showed up for the last play of the game. Turnover is non-existent in the league so we should always draft needs according to you. Got it.
Yea but that’s you and not the group that selected a DE in the first round when we were already “deep” at DE.
I assume Howie has a deal in mind. If he gets it, c ya later Nick. If not, cool, we keep the leagues best backup.
McCarron, Bridgewater, and Bradford are fine if you’re looking for a body. A draft pick is fine if you’re looking to rebuild. But if you’re a team that thinks it can compete now, and you’re drawing inspiration from what the 7-9 Eagles went on to accomplish in a single season, Cousins, Keenum, and Foles (not necessarily in that order) are in a class by themselves. They are the big three.
And if you want to sell tickets, you go for the Superbowl mvp.
Bingo.
PFT’s Mike Florio is definitely “The Football Grinch!”
There’s no story that Florio can’t find a negative take on…
He and Skip can have a TV show together that I never watch.
Foles is smarter than they are giving him credit for too.
By saying nothing much, he keeps all his doors open and the fans still love him as much as ever.
If a great deal comes along, great! If he stays here a few years and then retires, he’s still rich and famous, so great!
My ideal is sending Nick to the Cardinals for pick #15. They have a solid defense, playmakers on offense, and Mike McCoy seems like the type of OC who would embrace what Nick does well. If they can sure up that OL they can be comeptive in a hurry.
There OL is pretty bad, and there is limited free agent solutions, and their WR and TE situation is sneaky bad. Cardinals are in a tough spot with their draft position, and no QB’s under contract and unlikely to win the Cousins sweep stake. If they don’t love the 2nd tier of QB’s in the draft i could see them spending pick 15 to acquire Nick, and at that kind of price i think Howie would have to say yes.
I’m still one who doesn’t buy Nick Foles Franchise QB.
But the Cardinals offensive talent looks like: David Johnson and not a whole lot else. The offensive line is whack. Veldheer is cooked. Iupati is 31 and coming off a major injury. AQ SHIPLEY is the starting C. Wasn’t a huge Humphries fan in the draft and he’s played 18 games in 3 years and doesn’t exactly scream franchise LT. Plus their IDL blows too.
I just don’t see a way you can put enough around him for him to be that successful. You’re talking about 2 probably 3 premium OL investments, plus you’re going to want something other than the corpse of Larry Fitz and a bunch of tiny fast guys to throw to. And they’ve only got $22 mil in cap space.
I’ll admit that I didn’t know AZ’s oline was in that bad of shape. That’s straight trash. No wonder Arians retired… lol
They’ve had a hard time getting their offensive line together.
No, no, you guys have it all wrong! A Q Shipley is a generational talent the Eagles staff missed!
I figure this draft is loaded with quality interior OL. They can address some of the OL with their 2nd day picks.
Defensively they have some key pieces in place. They just need to plug some holes. Peterson and Chandler Jones are building block players. Markus golden looked promising before he got hurt. They have quality safeties and Deon Jones is a solid LB. it’s not an entire rebuild.
We all know what a coaching change can do for players already on the roster. If John Brown or an DT takes to the change it would be huge for them.
They obviously aren’t perfect, but with the right approach can improve quickly. They fall outside where most of the QBs will go in the draft without tons of ammo to move up. They don’t have the cap space to win out on the big FA names. I could see Fole being appealing to them more for those seasons.
I think I might spend every Sunday for the next 5-6 months watching Super Bowl LII.
I already know these Mic’d Up videos by heart, like an old favorite song. I can’t look away whenever any of it comes on.
Foles’ value is being overstated.
But when you consider he can also play WR……..
Supposedly one of the top 12 most important players on the team.
I think people who think a deal happening for marginal value are nuts. Either he’s traded for a good value (total comp must be greater than a top 20 first round pick) or he’s not traded and spends 2018 on the Eagles roster.
Either he’s going to be sold as a franchise savior for another team, or he’ll be trotted out as the best backup QB in the league in 2018.
I will not for one second try to read the mind of Nick Foles, but it never ceases to amaze me how so many people cannot see past dollar signs. I don’t know how much money Foles has, but he not only made 4 million this past year, but he’s due to make another 7 million this coming year for possibly not even getting off the bench. Not to mention, I’m sure he added a nice chunk of change in a signing bonus when he signed his Rams contract.
The point is Foles and his family are set for life no matter if he stays in Philadelphia, is traded this year, or leaves after next season. To some people it really doesn’t matter if you have a contract worth 100 million or only have a “paltry” 20 + million in the bank, as long as they are happy.
He’s made $20 million in his career, but he also comes from money. He’s in a situation where he would be perfectly fine if he retired. He’s likely got a couple million in largely liquid assets and another 5-10 in more long term assets.
I’m sure he could be happy as a backup here for his current salary. And I’m sure he could be happy as a starter somewhere else on a lucrative deal. I’m sure he could be happy retiring and chilling with his family.
The one thing I think he won’t be happy is having a team trying to make him a starter for bullshit money. If a team only views Nick as a stop gap that’s going to be the kind of situation where the deal isn’t a ton for the Eagles, money isn’t worth it for Nick and inevitably leads to miserable situation when the successor is in place.
So the notion that Nick is more valuable than most of the other available QBs because of his contract situation is one that I don’t buy.
So let’s just cut to it. Arizona wants to trade for him, tear up his contract, and offer him 4 years @ $15M base salary (aka “Tom Brady money”). He turns it down, nixes the trade, and rides the bench for one last season in Philly?
Thats $55mil of new money over 2019-2021, which is a little under market, if you could get it to being more like $60mil in new money i think Foles/Agent would take it. Key thing would be guaranteed money however.
Foles probably will be wanting the security that effectively 2 years of guaranteed money would bring – he in that scenario is probably going to start all 2018 and be the starter in 2019 initially even if he struggles initially.
Using your adding 3 new years (team would probably ask for a 4th new year and get it), I think a $60mil for 3 year extension with ~$26mil in guarantees over the first 2 years, with a $10mil signing bonus would be an extension Foles and his agent would consider.
2018: $1mil base salary (+$10mil SB) – $3.5mil Cap hit
2019: $15mil base salary (FG) – $17.5mil cap hit
2020: $20mil base salary – $22.5mil
2021: $20mil base salary – $22.5mil
If Foles/Agent thinks he can earn the new $30mil QB contracts, then don’t extend him, be happy to use the tag if he plays well in 2018 and work from there next off season.
That’s reasonable… and still a bargain for a good QB1 relative to what we think Cousins will get.
Right, it would need to be a team which envisions him as a long-term starter. On the other hand, Arizona also has a poor OL, meaning Foles will be set up to fail, and they are trading away a prime pick they could use to draft one. So that team in particular may not be the best fit, even though the numbers may be about right.
I still think teams will try their luck in the draft and / or free agency before going for Foles, at least if giving up something that would interest the Eagles more than having him as a backup, but it only takes one team to decide they like him the best, so we’ll see.
I selfishly want Arizona because I live here and I’m a Foles fan no matter where he goes (NFCE excluded). I’d love to go watch him play. But you’re right, that’s a bottom three offensive line, with little hope for serious improvement. They have some nice pieces on defense, but their offense is more than a QB from being any good.
Well, this is America, one of the most $-obsessed cultures that has ever existed. Where people get our economic system (capitalism) and political system (democracy) mixed up all the time.
Oh, sorry, let me step down from my soapbox.
The hard truth is that a guy who’s made, say $20 million can live the rest of his life in, say upper middle-class affluence, but if he manages to bank another $50M, he’s rich. And that family that he loves so much? That’s all the more that he can give them, too. Given that if he plays his cards right, he could possibly accomplish this in 3-5 years, it’s a huge decision to make for him and his family.
Trust me, if you have 20m in the bank, you aren’t living in any middle class neighborhood.
I hear what you are saying, but in Foles case we have to take into account that his family already is worth millions because of his father’s success in the restaurant business.
Maybe I’m wrong because there are players that feel they have to have the highest salary at their position, but I get the feeling Foles isn’t in that group.
“You want Philly Philly?”
(2 second pause)
“Yeah let’s do it!”
Don’t mind me, I’m just watching highlights!!
Hey Ryan! I just finished watching “Sound FX: SB52 Mic’d Up” again on NFL Network. Man, this stuff never gets old.
Nick ran to the sideline during the time out and said to Doug: “You want Philly Philly?”
Coach stopped and looked him in the eye for two or three beats. Silence. Just looked his starting QB in the eye. Then, calm as you ever want to hear it, he said to Foles: “Yeah let’s do it!”
Nick ran it to a tee and took the first big lead of the game at the half. That stuff was amazing to witness. Big time calls. Big time plays. Our Eagles!
In a nutshell MM!! You’re right! It never gets old! The Mic’d Up versions give you a really good insight to how much of a command Foles had throughout the game. Constantly picking up teammates and leading the charge. Just awesome!
I like that Foles felt comfortable in asking Pederson to run the play and Pederson had no problem listening to him.
There’s an actor by the name of Bobby Sherman that years ago was considered a teen idol. Sherman’s popularity didn’t last, but he did extremely well financially while working.
It was always Sherman’s dream to be a deputy sheriff in a small town. The last I heard he was doing just that and donating his deputy salary to charity, while living off the money he made while acting.
The point being Sherman gets more satisfaction out of doing a job he wants.
I don’t know if Nick Foles has a similar mind set, but if he does I envy him.
There was once a talented offensive guard who was considered a promising prospect, who the Eagles drafted in the first round…
I’m sure Seven-Three is still rapping away somewhere.
ICYMI
https://twitter.com/Eagles/status/963769451442294785
I hate to keep harping on the defense, but if anyone has slow motion, take a look at the play where Graham causes a fumble. In slow motion, watch the Patriots number 15 (Hogan) and 28 (White) at the top of your screen. Apparently, Mills is covering Hogan, but if he gave him any more padding he would be sitting in a seat in the end zone. White comes out of the backfield with absolutely no one near him. As he gets to the first down marker, Robinson appears in the picture, but is no where near White. Brady is looking down the field and didn’t notice either Hogan or White were wide opened for easy completions. It appeared that Brady was about to throw to White when fortunately Graham hit his arm causing the fumble.
I’m sorry, but no one can tell me the Eagles defense doesn’t have any issues when potential receivers are that wide open on the most crucial series of the game. I realize it was 2nd and 2 and they didn’t want to give up a huge gain, but that is exactly what would have happened if Brady looked at any of these two players a fraction of a second earlier.
Thank God for Brandon Graham, but Schwartz needs to get the coverages cleaned up next year.
Fran Duffy does an awesome job here analyzing the defense of Super Bowl LII that led to the Eagles win.
Lots of replays with voice over analysis!
His conclusion about the game? The 1st quarter successes led to the winning margin in the 4th quarter.
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/Eagle-Eye-Super-Bowl-Defense-Came-Up-Clutch-In-Pivotal-Spots/8c74f0bf-5f7c-40b4-acb4-22d69e3249ee
Interesting, when I get a chance I got to look at it.
Thanks
You realize that if you look at the film, there’s almost always at least one receiver open on every NFL passing play?
Everybody knows the defense didn’t play well in the SB, but every defense plays a bad game from time to time. This is especially true when playing an elite QB like Brady. You really need to let this go.
As I said earlier, I hope you are right. As far as someone always being open, there’s a difference between being somewhat open and not covered and White wasn’t covered.
when the playoffs start – throw out all seasonal records pertaining to offense and defense. Superbowl is one of the rare times a team has 2 weeks to prepare. Eagles defense was tops in the nlf all season long. I’m not going to stress over the superbowl, which they won and demand changes. There is no way NE is sitting there going ‘OMG – The eagles beat us that one game so we MUST revamp the defense and play better’. Odds are NE is sitting there saying – ‘ok, game over, prepare for next year’……
I, for one, hope Schwartz comes up with some new ideas or gets new players to help deal with this recurring issue.
what’s the recurring issue? Is it the Eagles holding Atlanta to 10 points or the Eagles holding Vikes to 7? Eagles finishing number 4 in points per game allowed? Or is it the 12.4 points per game at home that’s bugging you?
I’m half teasing. Bend don’t break defenses are very popular in the NFL. Do the Eagles have defensive issues? I think so too. Every single NFL team does. Ever since they ‘protect the QB’ and ‘protect the wr’ new rules — there are very few defenses that can excel vs. the pass. I do think help is on the way for the defense. Starting MLB and starting CB are on their way. Just those 2 pieces – this D is better…
Schwartz has been a great addition to the Eagles. He has objectively brought the D to the next level. I do think the issue is probably in our CBs, perhaps the LBs (for example, the absence of Hicks, who I consider a pro-bowl caliber player). Even though the CBs have been very effective in their roles, upgrading that position might be the only solution to slow down the accurate, smart QBs who put so much pressure on us.
If it was only the Super Bowl I wouldn’t be that concerned. It’s how they played against good QBS and Schwartz’s lack of success against Belichick that I’m worried about.
You can be sure that OCS throughout the league will study what worked against the defense.
I don’t disagree, but I think you need some perspective.
We came into this season knowing our CBs were going to be a problem. Their play varied from terrible to very good throughout the season, but never really lead to a loss. We won the super bowl with these CBs. They played well in 2 playoff games before struggling in the SB. Based on expectations I think the CBs played better than most thought they would.
We won the SB ahead of schedule. Any realistic person thought we were probably 1-2 years away from competing for a championship. We are still building and shaping this roster. Also you cannot discount what the maturation fo Kones and Douglas might dofor this secondary.
Excellent point. Howie and the front office already stressed the expectations about contributions from 2nd year guys. Sid Jones and Rasul Douglas should be stepping up according to that schedule.
I know we have high hopes for Jones. I also have high hopes for Douglas who compares to CBs like Richard Sherman in Seattle as far as size and skills. With Darby and Mills on board, the overall CB picture should improve.
The defense spent lots of attention trying to compensate for LB play this season too. Read a stat showing that Malcolm Jenkins lined up at LB 42% of the snaps during the season. That’s a lot.
Nate Geary might be a surprise this preseason. And the Eagles may draft an LB in the first round.
If LB play is more balanced, MJ can contribute more in support of the secondary. That should help too.
Perspective served with a side of greased light pole.
I’d echo you on several points here. There are certainly things to see improved with the DB group, but they were going against Tom Brady and the Patriots were getting away with constant holding of our D line.
I’d also throw in;
– Mills plays hard, but that is best CB in the draft / future lock down corner Sidney Jones’s spot
– Hicks was out and Kendricks is too stupid / Bradham is too slow to cover as well as Hicks does
– Darby had limited reps in our system due to the injury, so you’ll see a better version of him next year
I agree our CBS were and probably are still questionable, but if their play doesn’t improve significantly, I think the type of system we are using needs to be revisited.
Hopefully, with Darby and Jones there from the start we will have the outside DBS we need.
Yeah Brady set a Super Bowl record for passing yards in a game.
Yes, he did and I find it disconcerting that the Schwartz had no answers. He did allow Graham to rush from the inside, and fortunately that worked, but there shouldn’t be wide opened receivers on virtually every play. It’s one thing to bend and not break, but this defense bent and broke repeatedly in the Super Bowl.
First schedule announcements for 2018 from Dave Spadaro…
>The Phillies are off on Thursday, September 6 as the NFL season opens at
Lincoln Financial Field. That should be an all-day celebration in the City as the team raises the Super Bowl Championship banner – or whatever the plan is – in the stadium. So, more plans to be made.
>The NFL schedule traditionally is announced in April and that is likely to be the case ahead, but the Eagles also have the game in London against Jacksonville that will be played in October (exact weekend to be determined).
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/dave-spadaro/article-1/An-Update-As-Eagles-Prepare-For-2018/b1c514dd-2bba-4c2f-a9ef-d07bfe951e42
I feel like every time there’s a QB trade prospect who has potential to be a starter, people under estimate their trade value. Foles has played well early in his career as a starter for an extended period of time and recently led a team to a Super Bowl win, and did so, not merely as a participant but as pretty much the driving force behind the teams playoff success. He was the best QB in this years playoffs and Super Bowl MVP.
I’d rather have Foles as my starting QB than Case Keenum, Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Bradford or AJ McCarron and he’s a safer bet to become a good starting QB, capable of winning a Super Bowl than any of the rookies. If that isn’t worth a 1st round pick, I don’t know what is. With Wentz’s ability to return from injury in time for next season an unanswered question, Foles’ value to a team like ours that’s ready to compete for another Super Bowl, is huge. I wouldn’t even consider trading him for less than a 1st round pick or a mid to high second and a quality player. And, I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all.
If Carson Wentz is worth two firsts, a second, a third, a 4th, Byron Maxwell and Kiko Alonzo then why isn’t Foles worth one mid 1st round pick?
Well, Carson was taking a shot at an elite QB who can carry a team on his shoulders. Nick, at least so far in his career, has never appeared to be that kind of guy. He seems to be a system QB, albeit maybe the very best kind you could imagine.
I do agree that sports teams overrate draft picks. It may be part of the American obsession with potential (notice how we love draft picks, new bands, young actors and young people in general).
I hate the “system QB label”. With few exceptions most players are system players. Aaron Donald isn’t going to thrive as a 2gap DT.
If Foles is a franchise QB in this system, any intelligent coach would run that system. Who cares what he does outside that system? Build the offense around Foles and his strengths. Add players that fit that scheme as you reshape the roster.
Okay, you can hate the label, but it still aptly answers the question. Nick has a specific, nontraditional skillset. Someone like Carson is more valuable than someone like Nick because he is not tied to any particular system. He could succeed in a variety of systems and often succeeds even when the plan breaks down. That is why he’s worth way more draft picks and why they’re going to back up a Brinks truck for him after his rookie contract.
Carson is more talented and no doubt more valueable. Carson has the chance to the best player in the league. It’s not a great comparison.
Let’s look at a guy like Matt Stafford. He has the athletic traits to play in any system. He is a franchise QB and just got paid.
Foles is limited in scheme, but has proven he can be more successful in that given scheme.
Why is Stafford more valueable than Foles? Because he can play in more schemes? Because he has a stronger arm? He hasn’t proven to be a winner. If the goal is to make playoffs and hopefully super bowl runs than what does it matter how you get there. Run the system that Foles needs to help you achieve your goals.
Either you have an elite guy that can put the team on his back or you have a guy that you need to help. Thats scheme, that’s playcalling, that’s supporting cast.
I’m not convinced Foles can be a franchise’s saviour. I do think if a smart coach and GM identify Foles’s strengths and build their team, schemes, and culture around him that he can be successful.
I liken the obsession with youth to the Aztecs who would elevated a child to godly status for year before ritually slaughtering them at the end.
Outside of the few bona-fide franchise QBs (Brady, Big Ben, Rogers, Wilson, & Brees) every QB is a system quarterback.
You got hot Wentz on your list of bona-fide franchise QBs
I left him off on purpose. He needs to prove he can stay health, like Andrew Luck.
one season does not a career make, i think wentz is the truth but too early to annoint him
There is no place for reasonable thinking when it comes to these things. Just pure, unadulterated, certainty that he will be the GOAT.
“With Wentz’s ability to return from injury in time for next season an unanswered question, Foles’ value to a team like ours that’s ready to compete for another Super Bowl, is huge.”
Exactly — he’s not a backup for a rebuilding team, much different scenario. And it isn’t only Wentz’s ability to return from injury in time to peform at top level. Even if Wentz is completely healthy, it’s the same as last year year where Foles was picked up to back up a *healthy* Carson Wentz.
Truth.
Exactly! Which is why I wouldn’t even think about trading Foles for anything less than a substantial return.
“LeGarrette Blount on Eagles return: It’s early, so we’ll see”
Posted by Josh Alper on February 19, 2018, 8:54 AM EST
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/19/legarrette-blount-on-eagles-return-its-early-so-well-see/
I don’t blame him. If somebody wants to overpay him, he cannot turn that money down. I liken it to Jason Werth, I can’t criticize a guy with limited years to earn money for going to get that money; even if it means playing with one of the biggest bunch of pussies / fucking scumbag piece of shit hopefully they die fans like the Washington Gnats.
Heh heh heh heh. Please don’t let Blount go to the Redhawks!
I want to see Blount stay. He’s cheap and he’s useful. You can almost pay him like the #4 RB and use him like the #1 RB in a pinch or in a big spot. He’s tough and smart.
I’d love him back here cheap, but I can’t tell him not to take the money.
I liked having him on the team this year but I wouldn’t be terribly upset if he leaves. More carries for Ajayi and Clement.
You’re on fire today. I hope for your own sake this is just the result of a nasty hangover (which to be fair is what I’m sporting today after rewatching the Super Bowl last night and getting hammered).
Merrill Alan Reese — If it were me, I’d take the points. That’s why you’re not the coach Merrill — that is why….
That, and the hair dye would smear all of the equipment.
“Doug Pederson will reportedly interview Duce Staley and Mike Groh for Eagles offensive coordinator job”
https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2018/2/19/17028248/doug-pederson-interview-duce-staley-mike-groh-eagles-offensive-coordinator-job-philadelphia-nfl-espn
Hmmm I’m mildly surprised. McManus reports no immediate plans to interview anyone other than Groh or Staley for Eagles OC job. Pederson comfortable with both.
Wow. I like Duce but I didn’t think he’d get a shot as it seems the thinking is he’s not quite ready. Although… this could be the ideal situation for him. He knows the roster, the coaches, the playbook, the organization. Doug is likely to continue playcalling and other responsibilities. This could be the job in which Duce learns and grows. Maybe be good for him and a new branch on the Pederson coaching tree.
Duce is a fan favorite and his RBs and the players love him too. It’s hard to pass over him so quickly no matter what they end up doing.
I don’t think Duce has the passing game experience for the big job as OC. But you can’t disrespect him. He’s been here 7 years now. Groh’s been here 1 year.
But if Doug gives Duce a new title and a raise, he may also be able to move Groh to passing game coordinator and use him the same way he would use an OC anyway.
Groh might only have been here 1 year, but his resumé is far more impressive than Duce.
I think they get new titles and Groh get most of Reich’s responsibilities, with Taylor getting Flips.
Regarding Duce getting running game coordinator title, it would be kind of empty because Stoutland already has that job (just not the title)
#TeamGroh
https://www.brotherlygame.com/2018/2/18/17021204/millwall-fans-object-to-philadelphia-union-adopting-signature-song-philadelphia-eagles-hooligans
Hey Millwall; FUCK OFF YOU BUNCH OF PUSSIES! Millwall only exists to absorb brutal beatdowns from proper hooligans who support West Ham.
I think signature songs should be shared by all and adopted for specific circumstances and events, sort of like when the Brits celebrated the United States with their rendition of “Hey! Baby,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbwEqyFgqEQ
I don’t see why it’s ridiculous to expect 2 first round picks for Foles. He’s a Super Bowl MVP QB and he carried a team through the playoffs on his arm. That is worth way more than any QB in this draft.
This guy has proven he can win a Super Bowl shoot out against the greatest QB on Earth, that should be worth a hell of a lot more than a two.
Polian also OWNED all of the losers that like Sorry Miss Jackson.
Bill Polian also said that Lamar Jackson was to short to be an NFL QB (he is 6’3″). He thought Johnny Manziel was worth a first round pick. He also stated today that Baker Mayfield (who is only 6′ tall) should be a first round pick.
There is also a story about Irsay having to veto a trade of Peyton Manning in 2004.
If Jim Irsay is the most sane person in the room, maybe your ideas are just too insane
I just read Sheil’s weekly Q&A with Joe Banner. One thing that stood out to me was this sentence:
“Well now that they’ve positioned the team with a good, young quarterback and a young nucleus of players that should continue to perform at this level, that guarantees them a fairly significant window.”
When thinking about cap space and personnel decisions for the 2018 free agent list, I wouldn’t consider Bradham part of that nucleus, but more of a replaceable role player. I’m not saying he didn’t have a great 2 years here, but I don’t see him as a person the defense is built around.
Jordan Hicks, a 2019 free agent, is somebody I see as part of the young nucleus of the team (albeit, only if he is healthy).
When cap decisions have to be made, Banner has always indicated that keeping the core of the team together is always a high priority.
As I hinted too above, as long as we have Schwartz and off ball LBs aint more expensive in FA, Bradham shouldnt be expensive to keep and I think you can get one in FA as well
In the draft, what would people rather have (if both are graded the same), the best DT or the best LB?
For me its DT because how we rotate them, how expensive they are, because we always seems to play with only 2 LBs and as long as we have Jim Schwartz, we have a LB whisperer who can manufacture production out of the LB position