Friday Night Stuff
Posted: April 21st, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 78 Comments »My PE.com column this week took a look at the Eagles and potentially trading up for DT Fletcher Cox.
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For those who like listening to me ramble on about the Eagles and the draft, I did a podcast last night with the guys from Eagles Fancast. I did guarantee an Eagles Super Bowl win…some time in the next 300-500 years. Ya gotta believe!!!
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In a previous comments section a reader named Jason made a fantastic point. Jason made mention that new DBs coach Todd Bowles just came from Miami, where he coached Vontae Davis. For those who don’t remember, there were some pre-draft concerns about Davis. He reportedly tested positive for marijuana at the Combine. There were some questions about Davis possibly falling in the draft, but the Dolphins took a chance and Davis has been outstanding for them.
Could Bowles push the Eagles to go for Janoris Jenkins in the 2nd round? There is no way he’s in play at pick 15, but if he has a strong advocate in the NovaCare pushing for him…who knows. On the field Jenkins does make sense. He can play the slot or outside. He has outstanding man cover skills. He also has some RS ability. If Jenkins can control his smoking, he could be a heck of a player. I’m still not a fan of drafting him. Andy and Howie may still say “no thanks”, but Jason’s point about the presence of Bowles is something to keep in mind.
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Some Q&A
Could Cedric Benson be backup RB target? I doubt it, but that is just a guess. I think of Benson as a workhorse RB. He needs lots of carries to be an effective player. Our backup RB will get limited touches. Not a good match. I also don’t think of Benson as much of a receiver. He would be a good insurance policy in case anything happened to Shady, but just not a good fit.
Should the Eagles target Kellen Moore in the 6th round? I very much go back and forth on Moore. I love the fact that he is so smart and so accurate. Moore showed in the Senior Bowl that he can put the ball on the money. He hit a couple of WRs with strikes that should have been TDs, but the passes were dropped. That said…he’s about 5-11, skinny, and has a mediocre arm. I’d love to have a super-smart backup QB, but I’m not sure Moore has the physical gifts needed for the NFL. If you purely want a #3 guy, then he would make some sense. I admit that I’m utterly fascinated by Moore and it won’t entirely shock me if he’s able to have a Ty Detmer kind of career. I love watching him play and will be pulling for him to make it, Eagle or not.
Can CB Alfonzo Dennard play the slot? I don’t think of him as a good slot corner. Dennard seems at his best playing off and then breaking on the ball. The slot corner needs to be able to press and then run with the receiver.
How does BPA work when management has differently valued positions? The Eagles draft board will be “stacked” in a certain way. The scouts will have graded hundreds of players, but that will be whittled down to about 125 names. Then the Eagles put the players in a certain order in each round, according to grade. Sometimes the order of players is altered due to position. You know that a QB and FB with the same grade won’t be looked at the same. Nor a DL and LB. There are times when the team is particularly weak that the board will be stacked in such a way that guys with lower grades will jump ahead of others due to need. Not substantial, but within the same round.
All of this is done prior to the draft and the Eagles will stay true to the board they put together. That keeps emotion out of it. This process also rewards the scouts and all their work. If you set aside their grades at the last minute and started shuffling things around, that would piss off the scouts and create some real tension. I have talked to scouts from another NFC team where this happened and it drove them nuts.
Which CBs could be converted to Safeties? Here are the top few that make sense to me:
Trumaine Johnson – Montana
DeQuan Menzie – Alabama
Josh Norman – Coastal Carolina
Tavon Wilson – Illinois
From the last comments section.
Jeppe Elmelund van Ee posted a mock draft and asked for comments. Here is his mock…
1. Colts – QB Luck
2. Redskins – QB RG3
3. Vikings – LT Kalil
4. Browns – RB Richardson
5. Buccaneers – CB Claiborne
6. Rams – DT Cox
7. Jaguars – CB Gilmore
8. Dolphins – QB Tannehill
9. Panthers – DT Brockers
10. Bills – WR Blackmon
11. Chiefs – OG DeCastro
12. Seahawks – ILB Kuechly
13. Cardinals – LT Martin
14. Cowboys – SS Barron
15. Eagles – DE Perry
16. Jets – OLB Ingram
17. Bengals – LDE Coples
18. Chargers – OG Glenn
19. Bears – CB Dennard
20. Titans – OC Konz
21. Bengals – CB Kirkpatrick
22. Browns – WR Floyd
23. Lions – LT Reiff
24. Steelers – NT Ta’amu
25. Broncos – DT Worthy
26. Texans – WR Wright
27. Patriots – OLB Mercilus
28. Packers – OLB McClellin
29. Ravens – ILB Hightower
30. 49’ers – OG Silatolu
31. Patriots – DE Reyes
32. Giants – OG Zeitler
Notable left-outs:
DT D. Poe
TE C. Fleener
OLB C. Upshaw
LT M. Adams
DT D. Still
WR S. Hill
DE A. Branch
OLB Z. Brown
RB D. Wilson
QB B. Weeden
CB J. Jenkins
WR A. Jeffery
DE V. Curry
Interesting stuff.
I don’t think SEA goes for Kuechly, but that is just a guess. No Poe in the 1st round? Possible.
I don’t see Nick Perry as a likely Eagles target, but again…that’s just a guess.
Thanks for bringing up my mock draft. I did spend an awful lot of time doing it.
Regarding Poe: Someone mentioned on twitter the other day, that Poe could have a “Bruce Campbell”-like slide. Not that he would fall to the 4th round, but that teams were reluctant to pick him solely based on size and athleticism.
I am a fan of Perry, even though I don’t think he is neccesarilly worth #15. However in my mock, there is not that many options at that pick. Ingram could be the pick, but he is very similar to Graham in build, and Washburn likes his DE’s to be more lean.
Perry has an explosive first step, and should fit perfectly in the wide-9.
If SEA doesn’t select Kuechly, then I anticipate him falling to us at #15. The qeustion then becomes, will we pick him. Maybe, but I honestly highly doubt it.
Coples doesn’t have the motor we are looking for, Kirkpatrick can’t play the slot and is better of playing off or zone, no WRs are worth #15 either (as you’ve pointed out previously).
The draft is near, I can’t wait! All this speculation is driving me nuts… Although it’s funny at the same time…
I think that your mock is highly possible. the cox pick at 6 is unusual as in there is no talk of cox to the rams. doesn’t mean it won’t happen. i can’t see them passing on blackmon or another wide receiver. st louis has lacked in big play ability for a while now and really need someone for sam bradford to throw the ball to before they ruin him. none the less, i like it. gives us an idea of what w may do if cox is off the board at 6. personally i think the eagles may be a strong candidate to move up to #7. i think cox will be there and that he will be the target. if your scenario plays out, i think kuechly or (dare i say it) tannehill may be the target. if things don’t work out this way, i think the eagles will move back in the draft. maybe even grab an extra second and another first for next year, but i hope not. i hate when we don’t pick in the first round. kinda ruins my draft watching day.
man….i really should have proof read that. look at all of the typos
I agree. I think Seattle is twice as likely to draft a pass rusher as they are to draft a LB with pick 12. Everyone knows Luke Kuechly is a top 10 talent in this draft and keep trying to force him into their mocks – but the reality is that most teams won’t see the value in taking a LB early when their defenses don’t rely on them the way the Wide-9 does. Seattle has too many needs to address and there will be too many top tier players available for them to address those needs. They wont reach to fill a need – but they wont ignore a real opportunity to fix one either.
If Kuechly is available, the Eagles will draft him.
Considering the Eagles almost never do what the media expects in the draft, I really hope Mayock keeps projecting them to draft Mark Barron.
Since I already posted a comment based on the discussion in the last post, I have a question for Sam or someone with similar knowledge:
If the Eagles have as much trouble moving Asante during the draft as they have been since the season ended, can they trade him during camp or in the preseason (when some team’s starting CB goes down with an ACL tear) without taking the salary cap hit?
i’m not an expert but i’d have to assume that asante’s salary would be transferred with his contract. workout bonuses we would pay would count against our cap. if it is during the season, we would eat the portion of his salary that applied for the weeks that he was on their roster.
*our roster.
Asante’s salary comes off the books the minute he is dealt. Eagles only responsible for any signing bonus money left over. If Asante is on the roster on opening day, I think that changes a bit.
Tommy, I need to hear your thoughts about SDSU LB Miles Burris.
I think he has the potential to be a special player and maybe one of the best 5 players to come out of this draft class.
Could be a REAL steal in the 3rd round or later.
there are better SAM prospects…I’d be mad if they spent anything more than a 4th on him
I could see him going in the late 3rd. High motor guy
I’ll post something.
Why did Still drop?
I think its gotta be either a) an off-field incident every team knows about, but fans don’t b) He didn’t REALLY drop. There’s enough tape on him that teams don’t need any additional info to make a decision. Every draft, there are plenty examples of both. Still was the most productive DT in college football last year, and has prototypical size and athleticism. Sure, most of his production comes in spurts, but that never seemed to hurt past elite DT draft prospects. Unless there’s something we don’t know about, I bet Still goes way higher than he has in recent mocks.
Most mocks end up looking alike by draft week, but the actual draft NEVER remotely resembles it.
He disappeared late in the season against better linemen.
He disappeared after the season to a beach over the Senior Bowl
Still was the top Senior DT all year. Still probably is (Reyes?). Once Cox, Brockers, and Worthy got in the picture, that pushed him down the line.
Still had 2 tackles in the last 3 games combined. Teams moved the ball on PSU. Still hurt his toe prior to the bowl game and says that’s why he struggled in that showing.
He then skipped the Senior Bowl. I’m sure he blames the toe injury, but then he shouldn’t have tweeted that he was sitting on the beach and chillin’ during SB week. Looks like he skipped because he wanted to.
Didn’t stand out at Combine.
The last time Devon Still did anything really impressive was 10/29/11 when PSU played Illinois. That’s a long time ago.
Does the fact that Davis’ older brother was already in the league play into his good character now?
I don’t know that Vontae Davis is a good character guy. He has just stayed out of trouble. Maybe he just matured. Not sure about Vern’s influence.
Thanks for the mention Tommy 🙂 I don’t think Jenkins would be too high on the board currently, but I’d say he’s certainly higher on the board with Bowles, than if Bowles were not here. If Eagles are stuck at #15, with the prospects they really like already gone (Cox, Kuechly, Tannehill), and the trade back offers aren’t fair then perhaps plan B comes into effect and maybe that’s looking at Bowles and asking if he can thinks Jenkins is a workable prospect. If he slides all the way to 46, I think Eagles could/should definitely take him, because he covers the on field needs very nicely. I think it’s always worth looking through coaches histories and tendencies to see how they work with different prospects. In fact, I think it should be a bigger part of draft analysis and planning eg. looking at Washburn’s record to see who he has had best success coaching up and drafting.
I remember talking to Tommy about Jenkins after the 2010-2011 season. At that time he was arguably the best DB prospect in the SEC as a soph. If the guy wasn’t a pot smoking knucklehead, he would absolutely be a Top 15 pick in the draft.
If Jenkins has cleaned up his act off the field, he would be a steal in the 2nd round. But, that is the real question. Has he cleaned up his act? No one really knows but the Eagles are doing their homework.
In the same season, Janzen Jackson of UT looked like Eric Berry-lite. Absolute play-maker but not as good of a tackler. I absolutely loved this kid until he got kicked out of school Its pretty bad if you get kicked out of UT. Again, I am sure the Eagles are doing their homework.
Mark Barron is a very good player. I would be shocked if the Eagles drafted him and he didn’t win a starting spot. Tommy doesn’t think he is worth the 15th pick, and I bow down to his infinite knowledge. That being said, if the Eagles traded back and then picked him, I wouldn’t be as upset as everyone else suggests they would be if the Eagles picked him.
Sleeper: Casey Heyward DB Vanderbilt. If Jenkins and Boykin are gone, this is my guy. If he played at a better SEC school, he would be hyped more. He usually covered the other teams best WR and can play the slot. 6 picks and had 70 tackles. 70 tackles as a DB!!!
I can’t wait for Thursday!! It is going to be really interesting for not only the Eagles but the entire first round.
i would be pretty pissed if we took jenkins with pick 15…cause we could definitely trade back to the late 1st and get another second and take jenkins…i dont see jenkins being gone until the very end of the 1st at earliest if not the beginning of the second towards the middle. i also hear that the pats are willing to deal both of there first rounders for a shot at mark barron and a third…i say if our top prospects of LK and cox are gone then we definitely trade back…janoris jenkins at 15 is definitely doing the same as last year when we took jaijar in the second round – reach. jenkins at 15 would definitely not be BPA. i say if our top prospects are off the board then the next best thing would be to hope that mark barron still is so we can trade the 15th and a third to the pats for both of there firsts so we can have 4 picks in the top 2 rounds.
Hey T
How about a list of players the iggles should stay away from at 15 if they are available.
I suggest..Tannehil,Coples,Poe and Barron.I just don’t see value in those guys at 15.Also with Bowles,Washburn and Mudd you have 3 guys who can take guys with less talent and hone their skills..making an average player a very good or great player.Caldwel on the other hand is not as accomplished as a position coach..so u have to give the man..great talent to work with to begin with.If I were him I would be in Andy and Howie’s faces everyday advocating for Luke..cause his job may actually depend on it! I know the got him Cap59…but that’s not enough.Can’t depend on Chaney at SAM.great kid but has terrible instincts and awareness and his tackling has seem to regress with time….
Hey Tommy what do you think about Brandon Brooks…he has elite athleticism..can play multiple positions on the oline..I think he’d be a steal in the 3rd if he was there
Not a Mudd guy. I also wasn’t impressed by his game tape.
Assuming he is available, I gotta take a hard look at CB Stephon Gilmore at 15…..character guy and has return skills
Doesn’t sound like he’ll last to 15.
Tommy could you see the eagles trading back in the first and get a extar pick. i really like worthy as a late first rounder who the eagles could target. Or is moving back unlikely?
Moving back is distinct possibility.
Drafting Jerel Worthy is not. Disruptor, but not a pass rusher.
Tommy – I know we have talked about pot and Jenkins before but I still think it should not be a factor in choosing a player. I believe many Eagles players smoke responsibly. And many pro athletes have shown – including some badasses like one of the fastest swimmers in the world and a skinny little fastball slinger with a page boy haircut – that they actually still perform better than any other athletes in their class/league while using the drug habitually.
I guess I mention it again because you seem to be coming over to the dark side on JJ, and I think that is a good thing. I still can’t dispute getting kicked out of Florida – that seems like you’d have to be a special kind of idiot to pull that off, but pot use alone is not a discipline problem. So unless he has some other record I don’t know about I think you have to be open to drafting him. Sure, wait until the 2nd round if you want…but if he can play slot, is strong in man coverage and can return kicks…I mean, come on…either him or Boykin, right?
As the good lord Bill Hicks would say, Alcohol is way worse than pot. Kills infinitely more people (literally infinitely – pot kills almost no one annually in the US, alcohol? check the stats) – alcohol also leads to more fights, domestic abuse and infidelity. Marijuana is somewhere on the drug scale between caffeine and alcohol, but closer to caffeine. You draft guys who drink Jolt, right? Just checking…
Random soap box to step off of…but yesterday was 4/20 and all, I figured JJ would appreciate it. Along with all my Eagles who smoke and still have to hide it. Legalization will come, and worrying about these sort of background issues will be over, and more importantly thousands and thousands of young men will be released from jail. That shit is real. I stand with them.
It makes too much sense to legalize pot and prostitution in our country that you will never see it happen. Out of 300 million people do you really think the best and brightest are running our country?
Look how much money we are wasting on enforcing and prosecuting anything to do with both issues, which should be private decisions that are no more dangerous than drinking at its worst. We can’t balance our budget and we’re wasting money on this none sense rather than making revenue by taxing it seems really f’d up to me.
Back on topic, if an athlete can perform well and smokes or drinks, hard to not want them. Makes me think about how we passed on Warren Sapp because of his marajuana smoking.
I explained to you before…I’m not anti-pot. I could care less what people do. I prefer beer, but I’m not anti-pot. I’m all for legalization.
That said…if smoking weed does affect your job/school situation/life….then it is a problem. I’ve got a relative that is a pothead. It causes him a lot of problems. I’ve got friends that smoke all the time and don’t test positive because they know how to get around things. You don’t smoke when you know a test is coming up.
I love drinking beer. Since the Super Bowl I’ve had about a case of beer. That’s it. Why? Drinking beer interferes with my ability to study tape, evaluate players, and write. I chose that stuff over beer. Come next Sunday, I’ll gladly knock back a 12- pack of cold PBR.
If Jenkins wants to make a civil disobedience type of claim about smoking pot and go that angle…fine. For now he comes across as an idiot that keeps testing positive and it has gotten him kicked out of a college and will cost him hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars. Find some weed that is worth all that and I’ll come get high with you.
One of the reasons I don’t smoke myself is that I’d hate to get a job offer and then have the possibility of failing a drug test. Jenkins knows he has regular drug tests and smokes anyway. I don’t see how that is anything other than stupid.
No arguments on that from me Tommy, I don’t smoke or drink precisely because it could affect my career. I consider it a personal choice and only get riled up about the govt. making it illegal while they could save money by not enforcing and taxing. I know alcoholics and people with DUI from work. Those are pretty nasty, but our g
Damn Phone texting …. Our government doesn’t make drinking a beer or smoking tobacco illegal. Nor should they. Legal in designated places and the privacy of your home. If you can’t do your job because of a pot, beer, gambling, sex, incompetence or whatever then that’s between you and the person paying you.
Come on, brah. You’re totally harshin my mellow. Jenkins is like, a stud, or something. Dude’s ball skills are nectar!
So true. I’m sorry. Now digging these positive vibes. Wanna go play some hacky-sack?
Sorry Tommy – not trying to piss you off…just an issue I am interested in, that I think will be legalized and make a major change in situations like this.
But, I do have some weed that is worth all that…where you wanna do this?
sitko
Not to pile on him or anything but there are issues other than simply smoking pot… like cranking out 4 kids with 3 different mothers by the age of 23. Seems like Janoris Jenkins can cover everything except his penis.
The point is when you take his “production” in conjunction with the weed (and the reasonable assumption that some unreported stuff happened to get him booted out of Florida), I think it’s fair to question whether Jenkins will be able to make responsible decisions after you fork over a high draft pick and a huge chunk of change.
To Tommy’s point, if you have Jenkins’ athletic ability and are pretty much assured a big payday in the NFL as long as you stay “clean” then it’s a big red flag when you can’t… especially when you do it enough to get kicked out of a school. I think that’s a big difference than “having fun in college” or something.
That said, I did catch an interview with Terry Bowden (North Alabama’s coach) who said Janoris did everything right after transferring and seemed to “get” the wake-up call. Take that for what it’s worth – maybe he’ll be more mature because of his previous decisions but he’s going to have to do an adequate job of selling that notion in team meetings.
Tommy
You’ve been way ahead of the analyst crowd in identifying the worth of a number of prospects, such as Cox, Kuechly, and Chandler Jones. You’ve also given us perspective on the red flags or shortcomings of Brockers, Poe, and Coples, as well as reservations on Barron’s inadequate value to the Eagles at 15.
To further clear the haze, do you see any matches of needs fit and proportionate value among the higher end prospects who are likely to be available at 15? In your columns you’ve discounted Brockers as a rushing UT, Poe for bust risk, Coples for inconsistency, and Barron for marginal improvement over our safeties.
At our positions of relative need–SAM, rotational UT, slot corner with skill to migrate to outside corner, red zone possession receiver, and back-up running back–it would seem that among the top 20 prospects who have a reasonable chance to get to 15 only Gilmore and Kirkpatrick might provide acceptsable value without trading back.
Would you take either of them at 15? (I know you just mentioned that Gilmore might not make it through the minefield pre-15.) If not,, is there any other fit for 15, or do the Eagles have to move up for Cox or Kuechly to get a first round match of need and value? If the latter, would giving up 15 and one of the seconds be too steep a price for the contribution Kuechly or Cox might make in the near term?
Complex question that I’ll address in a post this upcoming week. Need to re-look at the top prospects. Not everyone can go in the first 14 picks. There will be someone of interest at 15. That said, trading back makes a lot of sense if our key guys are gone.
Great podcast Tommy!
RE: Janoris Jenkins / Chandler Jones
Jenkins could be the steal of the draft. But . . . for the Eagles, it all comes down to whether he’ll make Reid and Roseman look ridiculous. Because men in their positions can’t be made to look ridiculous.
But I’d take a shot with him . . . given the odds of hitting on picks anyway, why not.
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T-LAW:
Many, many weeks ago you pegged — PEGGED!!! — Chandler Jones (DE – Syracuse) as a DE you really liked. The national media’s caught up with you. (I think Mayock’s called him the guy rising faster than anyone else in the draft right now.)
Questions . . . (1) is CJ an RDE or LDE in the Eagles system under Washburn; (2) where do you see Jones’s value at this point?
Chandler should be LDE based on size, but Washburn likes to mix that up. He’s used big guys on both sides. I think he would try the guy at both spots and see where Jones fit best.
I think Jones is still a guy who goes in the 30-40 range. Maybe a bit earlier, but I’m not buying the notion that he’ll get into the Top 20.
hey tommy…i wrote this on sbnation too but on there i just checked out your full bio info and saw a typo. just wanted to let you know cause I read most of your stuff. and they have igglesblog.com instead of igglesblitz.com…just thought you should know so you can have that fixed…that way more people can actually follow of your work. which I really do enjoy. thanks a lot.
aaron is totally correct..you do some great work tommy i really enjoy and appreciate it.
Wow. Never updated that, huh? I’ll fix it. Thanks.
question for tommy…i have never been so obsessed with a prospect in the draft as i have been with Luke Kuechly. but i know that the andy reidgime (see what i did? reid and regime…i know..pretty clever) has never picked a LB this high. but this kid is going to be a huge impact for whichever LB corps he joins…and with ALL of our spots being shaky last season and improved at only one of the three LB positions in the offseason so far…i think we need him most. mainly to turn our weakest unit to one of our strongest. and also seeing how deep this class is with DT’s and D-linemen…along with the ability that Washburn has to evolve a DL from good to great..i just dont see the need to target cox if he is projected to go before 15. but i really and still strongly believe that isnt the case for Luke. so my question to you is…A) what would it take to move into a position to grab him? B) at what pick do you see him most likely going? and C) what do you think the chances are that we do go this route? because i really do believe that caldwell has to be in love with LK after hearing and seeing what he’s all about and conducting his workouts. he also has to be drooling over him after seeing what our LB’s did last season…and im forced to believe that he has to be in the hot seat this season if they LB’s dont produce again even after aquiring DeMeco. so i would assume he is definitely all over andy and howie to move up and grab him so he can feel more secure about his job. what do you think tommy?
I’m with you on LK, would love to have him as a Philly Eagle, but I’ll take a Suh over an Urlacher any day. Best DT is better than best LB.
Now, will Cox’s future performance equal or exceed LK? Nobody knows, but I get a warm fuzzy that Tommy thinks he might. So I’ll be ok if we trade up and take Cox.
Cox, LK, or bust!
yeah im with you on that…i just think it would take more to secure cox then it would LK. and i really just want to stud out our LB unit so that we wont have to worry about them for the next decade and go back to neglecting that position because you know reid is going to. cox is a beast and i completely agree that a stud DT is more important than a LB but im not too sure if that applies to the iggles. we are solid enough at DT and this draft class has a bunch of talent at DT that we can find a very good one in the second round as well. but i would definitely nut my pants if we somehow were able to get away with both LK and COX….but only in a perfect world. and its true that i would take suh over urlacher…but idk if i would take suh over patrick willis which i think LK could eventually be close to. cox is a perfect fit for wash and our Dline and truthfully…i would be ecstatic for either or but i think LK is an easier grab than Cox at this point IMO and on top of that…our LB unit is a lot more weaker than our Dline…so getting LK would definitely fit the mold of grabbing BPA and need. i just dont like how a lot of fans and all the analysts are content with the ryans trade and talk like our LB problem is solved…ALL of the LB’s were sad..not just at MLB. LK at SAM would still be an upgrade at that position over any player currently on the roster…and he is young enough to be able to replace ryans after we’re done with him and our unit will still be strong. i just think LK makes the most sense still…
I’m with you, trading with Buffalo to 10 seems realistic. If cox goes 9 to Carolina we pick up LK. We can only hope brother 😉
Damn shame we couldn’t get that 5th and 6th from Denver. Could have flipped those plus 15 to Jax and moved up for Cox. I would then get on the phone with the Pats at 31 and say we give you 51 and another pick to move up to 31. Take Janoris Jenkins. Take Bobby Wagner with your other 2nd. That would be an A+ draft.
im pretty sure it was a 6th and player with first contact and then bumped it up to a 5th after the 6th + player was declined. not both a 5th and 6th for asante.
actually…i just double checked and it was reported EITHER a 6th OR 5th which got declined and then they offered a player currently on the broncos roster
Speaking on Dennard just read a report that he was arrested on assault charges .. How stupid can one man be at this time during the most important time in your life. Now he’s probably a mid to late pick at best.
Tommy, I saw this on Twitter: http://www.football.draft-hub.com/draft-hubs-dynamic-measureable-rankings
It basicly tries to break down prospect physical measurements into one score. They also made a good point about Poe, he wasnt really good at the combine outside of his 40 yard dash and bench press.
T-LAW:
Commenter Baloophi remarked on something about Janoris Jenkins that’s always left me wondering. He wrote:
“. . . I did catch an interview with Terry Bowden (North Alabama’s coach) who said Janoris did everything right after transferring and seemed to “get” the wake-up call.”
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Okay, is Tommy Bowden blowing smoke to keep D-I transfers coming to NA? Is Bowden calling its straight?
And, more generally, how does scouting work *behind the scenes* with coaches . . . how honest are these guys — from head coach down to grad ass’t — about their draft-eligible players?
Worst source of info is players. 2nd worst is coaches. They both lie, sometimes in a selfish way, other times in a protective way.
Scouts talk to lots of people to avoid getting the typical spin. I don’t trust Terry Bowden’s comments at all. He wants JanorJenx to go high so that North Alabama will get the pub.
Re: Shea McClellin / Fletcher Cox & the Pats
T-LAW:
Conventional wisdom has SMc as a rush OLB. You initially posted on him with that in mind then, after he added some bulk for the Combine — and performed well — considered the possibility that he’s showing he can be an RDE.
My sleeper choice — partly on the theory that Washburn is still searching for Kyle Vanden Bosch II — is, if the Eagles trade down in Rd 1 or SMc is there early and for the right price on a 2nd-Rd trade up — that he’s a guy the Eagles jump on.
From the games and video I’ve seen, he seems like the kind of relentless DE that Trent Cole is. Not as big in lower body. But still had room to grow.
In a couple years, when TC is 32 (and Babin 34), SMc could be the Eagles new RDE. BGraham, if healthy, is seems ticked for LDE. If BGraham doesn’t come around, SMc could be the LDE. (I love the story developing Philip Hunt, but 260 lbs he might not get past situational rusher . . . unless he keeps his speed, becomes more effective as a run defender, and the Eagles LBs and SS get better.)
McClellin looks like he’d be a great fit in Kelly Green (a sign of my age). I think the fans would love the guy.
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The Patriots have the firepower, if they want, to jump essentially anywhere in Rd 1 to get Fletcher Cox. Why, with the holes in their defense. Because the Pats haven’t been the same defense since Richard Seymour was there and in his prime.
Cox seems like exactly what Belichick needs to couple with Jarrod Mayo (today’s Bruschi) to leap into the Top 10.
Just a long-shot theory.
Because in the past decade, if the Pats have moved, it’s been down to accumulate picks for the current draft and the next draft, rather than to move up. But with way rookie salaries are now — as compared to the past decade — it may be something the Patriots do.
And because that team’s defense needs an injection of a great DLineman — like a Seymour.
Agree on both.
Could see Eagles loving McClellin. Could see Pats loving F. Cox. Both guys fit what those teams do.
My only problem with a guy smoking weed is if he allows it to get himself in trouble. I haven’t read too much into his history but if he has been getting into fights and altercations while under the influence of weed, he isn’t worth taking the risk. If he’s been caught stealing in order to fund his drug problem, he’s isn’t worth taking the risk. If he has ever driven while under the influence, he isn’t worth the risk.
But if he’s the type of guy that stays home, spends his time smoking weed and stays out of trouble, then I would take the risk. I don’t advocate marijuana use but there’s a difference between an idiot and a criminal. I don’t think smoking marijuana is a criminal activity unless you allow it to get yourself in trouble.
The issue isn’t whether he’s out there doing criminal stuff (which I agree would be even more unsettling) or sitting around and smoking weed, it’s that he was caught multiple times in a setting (Division 1 football) that has clear rules about it and consequences. I can see an idiot getting caught once, but it’s troubling when you get caught again (and possibly several other times we never heard about given that he got booted out of Florida, which I don’t imagine has the strictest requirements, especially if you can shut down Julio Jones and Alshon Jeffrey.)
I feel like the other “character” concern with Janoris is not being discussed – that’s what you get when you make the mistake of foolishly replying to a comment halfway down the page. Anyway, he’s 23 and has 4 kids with 3 mothers. Without trying to start a religious debate or discussion about large families or anything, it’s at least worthy of concern that he’s roughly averaging a kid a year since he started college. It’s not like there will be fewer opportunities to create more once he joins the NFL. It also makes you wonder if he’s aware of the “consequences” of having so many kids (or the responsibilities).
So when you take these two issues together, I think it’s fair to question whether he has the maturity or decision-making skills to handle himself in the NFL. It’s not really about smoking weed or cranking out kids, it’s the fact that he cost himself Florida and draft positions when he didn’t need to.
Very well said about maturity and decision making. Those are 2 huge ways that guys bust in the NFL. It rarely is criminal stuff that causes players to fail. It is the little things.
One more thing- I really don’t think Janoris slips in the 1st round past Cincinnati. They need a CB and he’s the best available. They went out and resigned Pacman Jones, that should give you an indication of their philosophy
So obvious that I doubt it happens, but the Bengals often do the obvious thing.
I can’t see us staying put unless Cox/LK drops to us at 15. OL isn’t likely. WR isn’t likely. RB nope. S not likely. LB minus LK, nope. DE is doubtful unless they want Coples as a DT, which he has been effective at in the past. QB no way unless Tannehill slips. CB is possible depending on how the top half falls.
I think we have a couple targets we want and will trade up a couple spots to grab them but we won’t pay a ransom.
Is it more likely we trade up or trade back? With so few holes wouldn’t it make more sense to try and move up (or in this years draft just stay put) and get a handful(4-6) of higher quality guys in early/mid rounds 1-4 we want, than trade back and draft more for “value” in the middle/late 4-7 rds?
This is completely off topic but your mention of FB made me think of it. Do you have a sense of what the eagles may do at FB? Are they comfortable with Havali? Will they even keep a FB? Any FB in the draft that would fit our offense?
Seems like the Eagles are using the FB less and less so they don’t feel the need to have a proven vet back there.
Howie spoke very highly of Havili the other day. Stanley’s shoulder is all good to go so that should help his blocking. Stanley is a terrific receiver. He needs to show up as a pass blocker and on STs to win the job.
He does need competition. I’m guessing UDFA.
I’m curious how much the lack of use of a FB has to do with the team devaluing the position vs. the team not having a guy they really like back there. While Weaver was here, he certainly saw his fair share of the football (relatively speaking of course for a FB). Schmitt never saw the football nearly as much as Weaver, and last offseason at least, they made a couple attempts to sign a FB, plus they picked up Havili. Based on that, I got the sense that they just were never fully comfortable with Schmitt at FB.
You certainly could be right that they the position has become increasingly less important in the Eagles offense, but I could definitely see them picking up a FB late in the draft if there is a guy they like. On top of that, considering FBs are not often taken before the 5th round, I wouldn’t drafting a starter (or at the very least, a quality competitor to Havili) that late in the draft (I say this without know much about any of the FB prospects).
I think the offense has somewhat shifted due to Mudd and his blocking system. Indy ran mostly 2 TEs. We’re doing more of that now than ever.
If Weaver was still healthy, you would think we would run with FB more often or would they use him more as TE then?
RANDOM COMPARATIVE PEEVES
I hate it when draftniks compare a collegiate player to a guy who also played at that school. It always feels lazy to me. Like, “Coples reminds me of Julius Peppers” – well yeah, he wore the same color blue for 4 years. It’d be nice to make it a rule that you can’t compare a guy to someone who went to the same school – or at least he shouldn’t be the first comparison.
Second peeve is racially related (fun!). I don’t know how many times I’ve seen Kuechly compared to Sean Lee, Brian Cushing, or even Brian Urlacher. Hmm… they seem like three different LB’s to me – what could they possibly have in common? I wish I knew enough about football to say “the better comparison is a young Takeo Spikes” or “a more athletic Demeco Ryans” or “a slightly bigger, slightly slower Sean Weatherspoon,” but sadly, I don’t.
Coples and Peppers both 6-6, 285. That’s why that comparison works. Very weird that they both went to UNC. Other guy like that is Mario Williams, who went to NC State, 20 miles away.
There are times when same school comparisons don’t work.
Luke is nothing like Urlacher. Does remind me of Lee. Not so much with Cushing.
I definitely agree with the racial comparisons as being incredibly annoying. I remember when Toby Gerhart was entering the draft, you would see a ton of people comparing him to Mike Alstott. That just bothered me. You have a plethora of RBs to compare the guy to and the best you come up with is one of the few other white RBs who wasn’t even a RB but a FB.
As for the school comparison, at times I definitely agree it is lazy scouting, but I think there is a little more to it than just that. Particularly at schools that have the same person who coached both players, it can certainly be the case that the coach looked for a particular type of player and tried to mold one to be similar to another. In cases like that, I think the comparison is fair. Having said that, I would still prefer a comparison to be made to someone outside of the same school just to distinguish lazy scouting and legitimate comparisons.
Hey Tommy,
Long time reader but first time commenter. Really love all of the stuff you do. I use this and BGN for all Eagles info. I am a huge NFL draft fan and cant wait for this thursday. My question is in: Do you think the Eagles love Fletcher Cox as much as you do, if yes do you think the Eagles would be willing to move for him, if no who do you think the Eagles love the most? Thanks for your time, Tommy.
I do think the Eagles love Fletcher Cox. Howie said the other day the team is looking for a DT that can rush the passer. Jim Washburn went to MSU and worked him out. Just makes too much sense for them not to love him.
It might just be me or it might be because these guys are trying to set Tommy up to dispense a ton of info, but the Fancast hosts don’t sound all that knowledgeble about the Eagles. :-/