Putting the Brakes on Bryce Jackson, errr…Bo Brown, errr…#34

Posted: December 4th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 61 Comments »

Bryce Brown is off to a phenomenal start. Brian Baldinger has compared him to Bo Jackson. His stats are beyond both Shady and Westy. Heck, I think he’s better than Lamar Gordon, Tony Hunt, and Darnell Autry rolled into one, with a dash of Lorenzo Booker on top.

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In the last 2 games, Brown has 42 carries for 347 yards and 4 TDs. That is more than 8 yards per carry. In the NFL. This really is freaky stuff. In 75 carries this year, Brown has 6 for more than 20 yards and 2 for more than 40. He is a big play machine.

While Brown is doing some amazing things, I think we do need to be careful about over-hyping him a bit. The NFL is a league of trial and error. Coaches and players adjust to new guys. They figure out what the player does and have a counter-measure for it. Right now DBs are taking poor angles on Brown and he’s able to burn them. In future games, Safeties will stay back and come up with a less aggressive angle. They’ll give up the 4-yard run. They won’t give up the 40-yard run.

If Brown continues to thrive even after teams have tape on him, that’s when we know he really is something special.

Another thing must be pointed out…the competition. Carolina is 25th in run defense. Remember the Thursday night game earlier in the year when a no-name guy like Andre Brown of the Giants just shredded them? That defense doesn’t tackle well at all.

The Cowboys were missing both ILBs. They were missing NT Jay Ratliff. They had a backup Safety in the game. Dallas is 17th in run defense, but that number was higher when they had Sean Lee and Bruce Carter healthy. Without them and Ratliff, they are very vulnerable to the run.

I’m not trying to get anyone down on Bryce and his amazing start. He’s been incredibly fun to watch and has shown the ability that made all the colleges in the nation drool over him as a high school phenom. I just think we need to be careful. He’s had 2 straight games against mediocre run defenses. There was very little game tape on him prior to this. Do not be shocked if teams adjust to him quickly and slow him down.

This doesn’t mean that Brown will turn into Lamar Gordon. You just might see his numbers fall from 24-178 to 24-108 or something like that. As I said earlier, defenses will have to start challenging less on the short runs if they are going to take away his long runs.

Sunday will be a great test. Tampa has the #1 run defense in the NFL. They allow 3.4 ypc and 82 yards per game. Does Bryce kill them? Does he run for 100 or so? Does he get shut down? We know he is a very talented RB, but judging how talented is the question we now face. And this is a good one. Brown has exceeded our initial hopes. We just need to see how good, at a sustainable level, he is.

* * * * *

Couple misc subjects

Castillo’s future. I’m told he wants to stay on defense. Might do him good to work as a LB coach under a veteran DC. Juan is an excellent coach. He might be a good coordinator down the line. He needs some training.

Improvement of OL. Needs a full post.

Vick. I’ll talk about Mike when I get some time. Someone on Twitter was mad at me for being “anti-Vick”. Nothing could be further from the truth. Back when he was a Falcon I wrote that Mike is the most talented person to ever play QB in the history of football. And I still believe that. His raw skills are freakish. He just never developed on the mental side of things because he relied on his talent. As someone once explained, you can think of an NFL player’s career as 2 elevators. One starts at the bottom – experience. The other starts at the top – raw talent. When the elevators meet in the middle is when a player has the right combination of talent and knowledge. As the talent goes down (due to age), the knowledge goes up and he’s able to make up for any physical deficiencies. The problem with a guy like Vick is that he’s so good, he cheated age for longer than most players. And that kept him from working on the little things.

Compare him to Rodney Peete. Rodney looked old when he was an Eagle in 1995. He was 29, but only had 48 starts. Still, Rodney wasn’t special physically so he had to learn every trick in the book to stay in the league and challenge for playing time. Vick at 29 was way beyond Rodney at 19. Vick didn’t have to master the little stuff. He could still do things that defenses could simply not handle.

Now, the bill is coming due. Mike should be ready, but he’s not. And he’s paying the price by taking a beating. You can say that the OL hurt him. That the playcalling hurt him. And that stuff sure didn’t help, but the point is that a veteran QB is supposed to have the skill set to deal with those areas. Rodney Peete had a crappy OL in 1995 and 1996. Ask Rodney about having Guy McIntyre at LG and trying to block Leon Lett. Made Danny Watkins look like Larry Allen.

Vick can still play in the league, but he must adjust his game, even with an OL and running game. After all, Vick had a good OL and rushing attack last year and still was an erratic QB. This isn’t a one-year issue. I hope Mike goes to the AFC so I can pull for him. Would love to see him as a Raider. That organization needs someone exciting and Vick still has some very special moments.

TheRogerPodacter

bryce brown needs to get his fumbling problem under control. until then, i don’t care how many yards he racks up.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Kanin-Faan/100000790557328 Kanin Faan
  
  at least it’s going in the right direction… (2->1->?)
  - shah8
    
    stopped fumbling handoffs, like against Arizona…onwards and upwards.
D3Keith

I’m still clinging to the hope that Vick and Nnamdi will be back and rejuvenated under the new coach, and we will add Vonta Leach in the offseason and run the Tee formation with McCoy and Brown. Maybe sprinkle in a little option, but only with Foles — that way they never see it coming!
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Steven-DiLeo/100000156792866 Steven DiLeo
  
  Nnamdi and DRC are going to shutdown the opposing receiver, the wide-9 scheme will put pressure on the QB, and our fast LBs will cover the gaping holes and cover TEs. Our defense will be unstoppable!
  - Anders
    
    It worked for 2 games.
phillyfan1978

Tommy, how would you say the blocking has been the past couple of games? Is he putting up these numbers behind a decent line or a horrible one? That should factor into things as much as the players missing from Dallas.
- eagles2zc
  
  I saw quite a few open running lanes in the last two games. Jake Scott’s work maybe? One thing Brown has been successful at more than McCoy is outpacing defenders on stretch runs. Dude’s got wheels
- Anders
  
  From what I have read, the interior of Mathis, Reynolds and Scott have been very good in run blocking.
austinfan

Vick: he flatlined, hardest thing to project is someone like him, how fast and how much can he pick up on an accelerated teaching program, while part of the blame is Vick’s, he got no coaching at VT, and limited coaching in Atlanta. He’s tried to pick up in 3 years what takes many QBs a decade (look at Eli, 3 year starter in a pro style college offense, and still took 6 years to rise above mediocre in the NFL). Unfortunately, at age 33, with his injury history, his loss of speed and his height, I don’t think he’s a viable NFL starting QB, would be a great backup for a team like the Steelers where he could play wide open for 3 starts a year when Big Ben gets dinged.

Bryce Brown is not going to average 8 yards a carry, and hopefully he’s not going to average 1.5 fumbles lost per game either. But he has size, speed and vision, and most important, he looks like a quick learner, he was clueless in pass protection at the beginning of the year (which guy do I block?) but now actually looks fairly competent – there are guys who started 3 years in college and in the pros who are no better (talkin’ to YOU Shady). Another nice thing about Brown is he has natural hands, I think you could line him up in the slot in a year once he has RB figured out and can spend some time learning how to running routes. About time we got a bon fide steal in the draft!

For all the travails this year, 2012 could turn out to be a franchise builder draft – if Foles pans out as a starter they may have laid the foundation, Cox, Curry, Kendricks, Boykin on defense, Foles, Brown, Kelly, D Johnson on offense, if Menkin develops that would be a once every couple decades off season. Approach that performance in 2013 Howie, and I’ll start talking about you as the second coming of Ron Wolf.
- TheRogerPodacter
  
  excellent point about Brown and his pass pro. he was clueless at the start of the year. i remember the one great block he had a few weeks ago when Foles threw a long TD.
- D3Keith
  
  I was thinking something similar about this draft.
  
  I’m really eager to see what whoever we hire thinks about this roster. A lot of guys who might have played poorly under the current systems could be salvageable, in his opinion. Or we might have to jettison some players due to bad fits or being meh fits for the money.
  
  We all have all offseason to speculate though. I hate not having December games that matter.
- Arby1
  
  Just curious, do you like Kendricks more than Wagner for our scheme, and would Lavonte David have fit as a WILL? I won’t complain about Curry because we haven’t seen enough of him, and with ole man Trent faltering, it might have been a prescient move.
  - austinfan
    
    Wagner’s off to a better start, seems more instinctive than Kendricks, who might be better suited to a WLB role where he attacks.
    
    David is really undersized, Matt McCoy undersized, very quick instinctive LB, but . . .
    - Arby1
      
      Lavonte David has 108 tackles and is 2nd of all rookies after Luke. Wagner is 3rd with 101. Kendricks is 10th with 57.
- Pitmanite
  
  Saying he got no coaching at VT and ATL is a major cop out. The guy himself admitted that he didn’t work hard at either place. Said he was the last was in and first one out at ATL. You can say they enabled him, but that’s what coaches do to star players. It takes talent and hard work. Mike Vick relied solely on talent before he went to jail and he’s solely to blame for that. Again, he’s said that himself. He came out of jail and realized he had to put in the work, by then his pure athleticism started to subside.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Steven-DiLeo/100000156792866 Steven DiLeo

So which team could Vick getting a starting job from?

New York Jets?
Kansas City Chiefs?
Jacksonville Jaguars?
- D3Keith
  
  The Jets are going to be the most QB-needy this offseason besides the Eagles, IMO, with the Chiefs not far behind. The Jags I think are going to try to pull a Rams and trade out of the spot where they could take a rookie QB.
  
  Both the Jags and the Browns have two young QBs each, and although none of them are great, they might try to ride with them another year.
  
  Who else needs one? The Bills … but they committed all that money to Fitzpatrick.
  
  Who the Eagles hire, how fast the coach thinks he can win and who’s available when they draft should have a major impact on which direction they go. If their options stink, maybe Vick is still their best one. We gotta see how Foles finishes too. Maybe he’ll make it moot.
  - Julescat
    
    Raiders?
    - D3Keith
      
      Thinking there is that they invested so much in Palmer that they’ll go around with him once more. But a cheap Vick … sure, why wouldn’t they?
  - A_T_G
    
    I’m not so sure I’d cross the Jags off the list for Vick. They might not need a QB, but they need to sell tickets.
- holeplug
  
  Cardinals too.
  - TommyLawlor
    
    I do not think he’s going to ARZ if Whiz stays coach. If they make a change, Vick would make a lot of sense. Would be very interesting to see him paired with Fitz.
- Skeptic_Eagle
  
  I’m not sure he’s going to be a starter anywhere.
http://www.facebook.com/jamie.parker.1044 Jamie Parker

Because of injuries my fantasy team was down to Chris Johnson and whoever might catch a couple of passes out of the backfield. Bryce Brown just put me in the playoffs. Even if he only gets 40 yards, he’s still better than what I had been dealing with. How’s McCoy doing? Haven’t seen any reports this week. We just need the Raiders, Chiefs and Jags to win 1 game each and we can have the top pick in the draft. It will make the off season more interesting. This season has been wasted already. Let’s work for the future.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Steven-DiLeo/100000156792866 Steven DiLeo

Remember when Bryce Brown fumbled twice on the same run against Atlanta? Lol, Good times.
- TommyLawlor
  
  In the RZ no less.
shah8

**snort**

And I still think you’ll get into regular twitter arguments about Vick. I see enough work by other “top ten” QBs that I’m very sure that Vick is at least middle of the road (of the real QBs) purely as a passer. There is just an astounding amount of dice-loading when it comes to Vick. He can’t just be a better passer than Flacco. He has to be twice as good, cope with twice as bad circumstances, just to get as much credit for it as Flacco. There is a reason I told you Vick is a better passer than McNabb. The OL did hurt him. Why can Phillip Rivers get that acknowledgement, but not Vick? Do you think Rivers didn’t do the “little things” that would have allowed him to work some magic? Do you really think that Peyton Manning had a good season in 2010? There’s only so much that can be done with a bad OL, and there is nothing that can be down with an OL that was missing as many assignments as it was earlier this year. Pretending that this isn’t true isn’t going to allow any of your other arguments to ring true to an observer. I mean, over the course of a season, Vick shows better decision-making and consistently better mechanics by a long stretch over the worst legit QB starters, like Kolb. This is something that is dead obvious on tape–anyone who cares to pay attention will know that Vick does the “little stuff”.

The playcalling? Eh…I’m still on the OL. No offense at all would work with that line, earlier, and a big play offense maximizes the chances of greater flexibility later in the games. This did not happen, though. Of course, when they tried to run the ball, Shady had very few holes, and almost none up the middle. I do think they will run more, because the writing is on the wall. Watch the Minn GB game or the Atlanta NO game. Nobody is letting crazy passing games happen without bigtime deep shells. You’ll have to pound the ground for the right to fly, and GB has been losing games because teams are taking a page right out of the early 2k Ravens and crushing their running games to mess up the passing game. The bust of Ryan Mathews this year had made it difficult for Norv Turner to let Rivers lean on the run. Everyone in the league sees all this, and the success of Shanahan’s running attack in mitigating a terrible receiving corps present at this stage of the Redskin’s season. It ebbs and flows. The fact that Vick is your classic Coryell type QB stuck in WCO ever since Reeves got fired is old news.
- D3Keith
  
  “There’s only so much that can be done with a bad OL.”
  
  One thing would be getting the ball out more quickly. Blame whoever, Vick or MM, I’m not taking sides. But QBs with fewer gifts and bad lines have used it to get by.
- TommyLawlor
  
  Phillip Rivers has struggled the last 2 years and the evaluation of him is definitely changing.
  
  No player gets to keep an evaluation for lifetime. It is earned each season. Rivers is descending right now. Vick too. Joe Flacco still has yet to take the next step forward and become the top tier QB we’ve been waiting for. Matt Ryan has gotten better this year.
  
  With Vick…I have no biases. I write what I see. If he makes good decisions and gets the ball out accurately, I write that. We saw that for much of the Ravens game. Other times he can’t get out of his own way.
  
  Vick remains very talented. He is tough as nails and I have ultimate respect for him because of his ability to take a beating and not rip into his OL. That’s one reason his teammates love him so much.
  
  If you think Vick is a polished QB on a consistent basis…you are mistaken. He has games where he looks great. He makes good reads, quick, accurate throws, and adjusts plays at the LOS. The first Dallas game of 2011 might be his finest showing. Another week…inconsistent Vick shows up and you get sloppy mechanics, odd reads, and erratic throws. That’s why he’s so maddening. The potential for greatness is there. He just doesn’t deliver.
  
  Go look at the 2011 games, when he did have a good OL. When good Vick shows up, the opponent better watch out. When bad Vick shows up, it is the Eagles who are in trouble.
  
  http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/2549/year/2011/michael-vick
  - Tom33
    
    As I have posted before here, Vick is who he always has been – a super-talented guy who is just too inconsistent to count on every week. You can’t question his arm or his toughness. You can question his decision-making and his ability to read defenses. As you say – when he shows up (plays well) his numbers are ridiculous. You just can’t rely on that, a lesson AR and the Eagles learned all too well.
  - shah8
    
    Wait just now…
    
    Seriously, now, your link disagrees with your assumption that there’s a “good” Vick and a “bad” Vick. A superficial inspection shows just one truly bad game by rating, where he played with an injury that he shouldn’t have been playing with, against a team that had a very hot finish, especially defensively.
    
    Moreover, Philly’s line has not been a good pass blocking unit, essentially since Shawn Andrews went bonkers. The right side of that line before 2012 was critically impacted. If we had a RG in 2010 instead of Max Jean-Giles or something like him, we almost certainly would have gone further than we did. In 2011, Vick, by certain dubious statistical measures, has had much fewer sacks than he otherwise should have had. At least those dubious measures have more transparency than figuring that Peyton Manning is waving an all knowing hand and calls the perfect plays every time. He does do that, but Manning’s offense is simple enough to be run at the line, and good playcalls don’t do much beyond keeping the thumb on the rush. The fact that Manning has good vision and a good, accurate arm counts for far more that what plays to run.
    
    Seriously, the main and material detriment of Vick the passer is, again I might say, the fact that he is poor on rolling out and throwing on the run. A bit weak on throwing with decent touch. But the dude indeed has been making a poor right side in 2010 and 2011 look better than they were. He’s been making a wide variety of really hard throws (and making them more than most QBs could do), and generally running a prolific offense (fourth in 2011, I forget which measure, specifically, yards?) that runs into a wall when power, not finesse, is demanded of them in the red zone. Give him a OL that doesn’t give up a pass rush up the middle, and he’s usually fine, and better than fine.
    
    It’s why I’m so dubious of all the people going hallelujah, Vick is gone. I can see Vick leaving because Philly wants to turn over a new leaf, but it will almost be entirely a political move. And like such moves, it’s almost certain to be bad news for the organization. Foles is not starting material. There are no top tier prospects or FAs. You’ll probably have trouble getting FA who wants to win (as opposed to cash, like John Carlson @ Minn). I think Vick’s benching is simply cautionary, for both financial and future performance reasons, and I increasingly think that the Eagles will indeed keep him. I’m not looking forward to the screams of disappointment when that happens.
    
    I have been looking over the draft. I’ve given up on Jarvis Jones. I’m not sure about Te’o. I think first preference is Joeckel and second prefernce is Lotulelei. I drool about Joeckel as a RT, and while the Ravens haven’t had a super-positive experience with Oher at RT, I think this will allow us to compress talent (assuming Peters is okay) back into the line, let Kelce be the too-light center without costing quite as much, and maul everyone on the ground until the safeties give up and let Djax play. Lotulelei is the runstopper of our dreams, and will help Cox keep the pocket niiiiiiice and shaaaallloooowwww.
    - xeynon
      
      I think you’re the one who’s dreaming. There is no way they are going to pay him franchise QB money to be a maybe-okay-starting-QB (when he’s healthy – another point that is not mentioned in this debate is that he is VERY injury prone, pretty much guaranteed to miss 4+ games every year, and a winning team can’t have that from a starting QB no matter how talented he is).
      
      The guy has turned his life around and that’s great – I wish him well. But I can’t wait until I’m seeing him take bad sacks, miss open receivers, and throw into triple coverage in another uniform, and I think I’m going to get that wish.
- http://twitter.com/danmats1 Dan Mats
  
  Marcus Vick, relax we got your point from twitter, you love your brother and don’t care about what ridiculous things you have to say to support him.
  - Cal Setar
    
    I always get the sneaking suspicion when I read shah8′s posts that he’s a college student in a Psych 101 course performing a social experiment on us for a class project. But Marcus Vick makes sense too.
Cal Setar

I think you really hit the nail on the head with Vick. Not sure I could have put it better myself. He’s the guy with a boatload of talent whose never been punched in the mouth. And when I say punched in the mouth, I don’t mean literally, because let’s face it, we’ve all watched defenses continuously kick the crap out of him the last couple of years.

I mean punched in the mouth figuratively. He never had that moment where he was on the field with someone, tried to impose his will on that player, and was flatly denied. He’s always been able to impose his will on the other guy, through sheer force of athleticism (obligatory reference: every game he ever played at Va Tech). And as anyone whose played sports knows, at some point in your playing career, in some game on some field in some year, you play against someone who makes you go “Wow, that guy is just…better than me”. And you start to question yourself. Your abilities. And then if you’re a committed athlete, after a period you go back and focus on those “little things”. These are the traits born out of necessity. Of the want and desire to succeed coupled with the knowledge that sometimes you can’t just run past, or over the other guy.

It’s the exact reason it’s so hard to survive in pro sports and why you see so many talented college players fail. They have that moment when they’re punched in the mouth, and instead of bearing down and honing the small things to make themselves a more complete, experienced player, they go the other way. They pout. Or feel sorry for themselves. Or live in a state of denial, constantly lying to themselves about extenuating circumstances or creating false conspiracies in their mind.

Like you said, the truly special players are the talented ones who are able to figure out the importance of experience and how to connect it with their obvious talent. And of course, Vick had every chance to be one of those guys. After his prison stint, it seemed that he’d finally reached that place where he understood that he needed to hone his skills and welcomed the coaching he rebuffed in Atlanta. But it didn’t stick, or his bad habits were too ingrained to get rid of, and he never had that punched in the mouth moment to show him the necessity of experience. Even now, many of us think of him as a mediocre QB. But there’s no doubt that, any given Sunday he’s still one of, if not the most athletic guy on the field.
Skeptic_Eagle

Fantastic analogy about talent vs. experience. Really good stuff, there.

I agree we need a bit of brake-pumping when it comes to Brown. You laid out all the points pretty well.

That being said, I do think he’s a bonafide above-average NFL talent. I’m hoping the Eagles recognize Shady/Brown as the near-term future of this offense, and bring in a coach that can utilize them as a tandem. I’m thinking of the way Greg Roman uses Frank Gore and Kendall Hunter; completely different types of runs, blocking assignments, and expectations, based on who’s carrying the ball. If I had one complaint about Brown, it’s that his straight-line speed trumps his lateral explosion, which is going to come into play as second-level defenders (and beyond) realize what kind of acceleration they’re dealing with–as you detailed. That’s somewhat mitigated by the fact that McCoy is the best lateral back in the league right now. Their styles really complement each other, and both of them have the vision to break big plays. With the right coach in place, it would be a tall order for a defense to stop, especially if you add a healthy Peters back into the mix.

With Foles showing competence in driving the ball to the second level–even on the heels of the 8th straight loss–this might actually be the best I’ve felt after a game since last season. Might seem strange, but I’d written off 3/4 of the secondary a while back; neither of those safeties are starters, and Asomugha is done. I’m a bit disappointed that DRC has gone from a good cover guy that can’t tackle to a bad cover guy that can’t tackle, but what can you do?
- Arby1
  
  “Fantastic analogy about talent vs. experience. Really good stuff, there.” Agreed!
BobSmith77

I think Vick wouldn’t want to be compared to Peete in any way and rightfully so. Peete largely stunk here as a QB. Wasn’t even the starter for a year and lost his job to the ‘better Detmer.’ Watters carried this offense in ’95 almost by himself. Opposing teams certainly didn’t respect the Eagles’ downfield passing game with subpar WR/TE that year (best was a hobbled Barnett who was never the same after he blew out his knee) and rag-armed Peete who struggled to put anything on the ball beyond 10 yds.

Then again maybe I have an irrational dislike/hatred of Peete because he replace Cunningham even though looking back it was the right call.
Cliff

The Vick thing is very relateable. I think at some point we’ve all trusted what we thought was natural talent or skill, just to hit a wall when the difficulty increased.

For me it was school. School was always a cakewalk for me. I took AP and Honors classes in high school, but never had to try. I thought I could waltz in to college with that same mentality. Woops. I ended up an average college student not really aspiring towards anything because I wasn’t used to having to work hard at school. Same thin
- TommyLawlor
  
  High school for me. I was a great student as a kid and even in junior high. In HS, I didn’t stay focused in every class and started getting erratic grades. Changed that when I got to college.
BobSmith77

As for Vick, he will probably get a starter’s job somewhere but I think this raw athletic skills aren’t freaky anymore. Teams just don’t fear him in the open field like they did in Atlanta or even in ’10 even he became the starter.

Vick has improved here as a QB under Reid. Just look at the stats between here and Atlanta especially his first 2-3 years as an Falcon. Notably better and more accomplished QB.

He’s just a guy though that has reached the plateau I think of what he can do as a QB. Not going to be a guy who makes adjustments at the line or quickly progresses through his 2nd & 3rd reads completely before a play breaks down.

Vick is also a guy who still makes too many poor decisions, turns over the ball too much, and takes too many hits & sacks. At this point, I don’t see any coach who change really change those negative attributes either about Vick. Reid has taken him about as far as he can go as a QB.
Pitmanite

Vick needs to go to a team where the coach believes in a running game (contrary to what Andy has shown last 2 games). Vick isn’t a pass the ball 35-45 times per game guy. In ATL he threw the ball on average 25-27 times per game. He’s a 53% career passer and his TD to INT ratio has never been very good.

The more you try to put the team on Vick’s shoulders in the passing game, the more you expose his weaknesses. We got those 11 games out of Vick to start and it was a complete outlier. It was the equivalent of catching a pretty girl, who always carried a little weight, after she got her heart broken by some scumbag. She hit the gym hard, got in great shape, and then you met her and fell hard. Then a year later, she got comfortable. You started bringing home snacks after work while you guys cuddled on the couch watching Grey’s Anatomy and The Good Wife. Then the next thing you knew, you were dating Adele without the voice and the money. She’s still a good woman, but she let herself slip and you’re to blame because you kept brining home treats for fatty to snack on. That’s Mikey Vick. In 2010 we got spoiled and thought we could rely on his arm, but Andy kept heaping those bon bons on him (40-45 pass attempt games) and our cinderella turned into a pumpkin.

Vick needs to go to a team that’s going to ask him to on a regular basis throw the ball 25-30 times a game, let him make a few plays with his legs and I think he can be successful.
ACViking

T-Law:

Did you have to choose Larry Allen (from Sonoma State) as the Watkins comparator vis-a-vis the very over-the-hill Guy McIntyre?

Why not, I don’t know, Steve Hutchinson or Larry Little?

Or even Vic Reale (Holly Spirit High Class of ’78).
John Kuo

LOL tommy, Danny Watkins looking like Larry Allen. Funny one.
ACViking

Re: 2010 / 2011 drafts

In hindsight, should the Eagles have taken Earl Thomas at 13 instead of B-Graham? If so, who’d be manning the LDE now and the next 2-3 years (or playing the “Blitzing LB” in a 3-4 with some weight loss)?

In hindsight, who should the Eagles have taken instead of D-Watkins — who might have excelled in Juan’s style of O-line blocking? (And the answer “anyone else” or “Bugs Bunny” or players of that ilk are not choices.)

The 2012 team is reaping the harvest of some very poor drafts. And it’ll be a long time before Jeff Lurie lets anyone sign big-money free agents again.
- Arby1
  
  I wanted Gabe Carimi the year we took Watkins who would’ve fit Juan’s O-line, but I think Watkins was a Mudd choice, no?
  - austinfan
    
    Carimi’s been benched in Chicago for poor pass blocking.
    
    It was a thin draft, the only OL who worked out until Wisniewski was Carpenter, and he flopped at OT before moving to guard.
    
    The best player missed was Wilkerson out of Temple.
- Baloophi
  
  I was hoping we’d take Jimmy Smith with that pick (or trade back… I also coveted Kaepernick and Titus Young, but not that high).
  
  We were in a tough spot, if I recall. Castanzo fell all the way until right before us, and we were kind of in no-man’s land before a run of “value” picks in the 2nd round.
  
  With true hindsight, I would package and move up for J.J. Watt. If we were hell-bent on a lineman, Carimi would’ve been a good choice, and per Arby1′s comment, plenty of people wanted him at the time.
- Anders
  
  Graham was the right pick at the time. We had nobody at LDE at the time and he actually played really well before his knee injury. The same thing with Allen.
  
  For Watkins, he was the top rated guard even tho he was a tackle in college. Watkins only knock on him was his age.
  - mcud
    
    That is a very “glass is half-overflowing” way to look at it. I find the Watkins pick in no way defensible. At all. Not now. Not then.
ACViking

Bryce Brown . . .

This guy has more raw talent than any RB in the NFL today besides AP in MN.

That’s *raw talent.*

In the past 50 years, the Eagles haven’t had anyone in the same zip code as this guy.

Yes, McCoy is a star . . . the moves of HOF Gale Sayers. (NOT B-Sanders. Gale Sayers.)

But, as T-Law incisively remarked last season when I made that comparison, Sayers had more straight-ahead speed than McCoy. Which is true.

But I didn’t realize how *slow* Shady is until watching Brown.

Right now, he’s early Mike Schmidt (The late Mets’ announcer Bob Murphy used to say, “it’s feast or famine” for Mike Schmidt.)

Schmidt eventually cut down on his swing just a bit and became, well, the 2-time MVP Mike Schmidt of the 1979-86 period.
- Anders
  
  Its pretty funny in regards to McCoys straight-ahead speed even compared to Westbrook. Westbrook only ran a 4.57 (McCoy 4.5), but I have seen so many long runs where I know Westbrook would have scored, but McCoy got tackled.
- http://twitter.com/MFlicker Mike Flick
  
  More talent than any RB sans AP? It is kind of like saying my girlfriend is hotter than anyone except maybe Megan Fox.
  
  Watch the rookie RB in the team we play this week. He is the real deal. There are a lot of highly talented backs, the Giants have their own fumble prone speedster. They just have other options, and care about winning right now.
  
  Obviously there is not a lot to get excited about this season, but re-read the put the brakes on article.
  - Anders
    
    In terms of size/speed combo, I say yes. He is just as big as Richardson and Martin and he is faster than all them.
- mcud
  
  3-time MVP.
Eagles_Fan_in_San_Fran

“Would love to see Vick as a Raider.”
Wow, you really do hate him, don’t you Tommy!
- TommyLawlor
  
  Ha!
GermanEagle

Tommy
as I respect your opinion and since you’ve been a long-time Eagles fan (die-hard that is), when was the last time a roster like the 2012 Eagles who most likely will not finish with more than 3 or 4 wins this year had so much talent?!
Or in other words: how would you compare the 3-13 Eagles under Rhodes to the 3-9 Eagles under big Red?!
- Ark87
  
  Probably the biggest reckoning the nation has to make about Eagles 2012 season. How can a team that was almost universally recognized as a top 10 team talent wise (and I’d say the majority had us in the top 5), have such an abysmal season.
  
  How much of it is our talent being over rated. How much is it the tumultuous circumstance? How much of it is the coaching? I get the feeling that the story will be written retrospectively next year depending on how this team performs under the new coaching staff.
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