What About Us?
Posted: April 16th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 87 Comments »The Eagles should get Michael Floyd to be the big WR. And Mark Barron to play SS. And any number of guys to be the backup RB.
To that, Riley Cooper, Jaiquawn Jarrett, Kurt Coleman, and Dion Lewis all say “What about us?”.
Many Eagles fans agree. Some like this player, some like that player. Different players have different amounts of support. I like all 4 guys and would love to see them step up and excel in 2012. I’d rather be able to rely on current Eagles than rookies and/or outsiders.
Here’s the thing…we’re dealing with a mixture of facts and projections. Riley Cooper has had great plays. He has had good games. What he hasn’t done is play well for a whole month, let alone a whole season. There are a lot of factors why (in his defense), but the bottom line is that we can’t count on him to have a breakout year. Cooper could go 58-858-11. That’s what Laurent Robinson did for Dallas last year. He never had more than 37 catches or 2 TDs prior to 2011. The circumstances were finally right and he excelled.
Cooper did get better from 2010 to 2011. He didn’t make significant progress, but he’s at least headed in the right direction. On the flip side, he’s a late round pick 2 years into his career and we still don’t know for sure how good he is. I’d love for him to go all Laurent Robinson on us, but again…we cannot count on that. And that’s why we need another big receiver, whether a TE or WR. If we’re lucky, they’d both pan out and then we’d have the problem of how to get everyone enough touches.
Lewis could be the backup RB in 2012, but he’s 5-7, 193 and a late round pick. I saw good flashes from him last year, but not enough to say “I’m 100 percent comfortable with him as a key player for us”. I think we need another RB in the mix. Let the guys fight for playing time.
I think all of you know that I like Kurt Coleman quite a bit. I have acknowledged that ideally he’s the #3 Safety, but I think way too many people are way too dismissive about his level of play. He’s shown to be an adequate starter at the least. I’m not as big of a Jaiquawn Jarrett fan, but I do want to see what he can do with a full offseason of practice and lifting.
The difference in this spot is that JaiJar was an early pick. He has the background and potential to be an outstanding starter. That’s why I’m willing to take a chance on him making it in 2012. Cooper and Lewis were taken as late round projects with some potential. JaiJar was a player the Eagles sought to come in and start right away. His career got off to a disappointing start, but that hardly means the guy is a bum and can’t play. He’s an unknown commodity, like the others.
Having Coleman behind him also gives us a bit of a safety net. That is why I’m against drafting a Safety early. I’m fine with signing a veteran on a 1-year deal, but don’t want an early rookie. If a mid-round or late round guy is taken, I’m fine with that. Competition is a good thing.
There are more than a few current Eagles who are going to be fighting off competition to keep their jobs. Some are good veterans like Jason Avant and Joselio “MmmBop” Hanson. Others are young guys like the ones listed above. This doesn’t mean anyone is against the current guys or is a “hater”. You always want the current players to step up. One way for that to happen is to challenge them. And the current players do have an advantage. Cooper has made an NFL highlight catch. The rookies haven’t. Lewis has had some impressive NFL plays. Rookies haven’t. And so on. The guys already here know they can play in the NFL. They just need to play better. Rookies are a whole new mystery.
* * * * *
Someone asked on Twitter why we’d want to count on a rookie over current guys already in place. If there is enough concern at a position, you’re going to spend a high pick on a player. Dion Lewis is small and has minimal experience. If we draft a RB in the 3rd or 4th round to be the primary backup, chances are he’ll be bigger than Lewis. You would hope the player has an NFL type body. That would give him an advantage, despite being a rookie and unproven. Having a certain amount of size, talent, and/or skill can trump experience. Look at how quickly DeSean Jackson took Reggie Brown’s job. And the Brown bashers forget that just 2 years prior, he averaged almost 18 yards per catch for a whole season and had 8 TDs. Brown was solid. He just wasn’t DeSean.
* * * * *
Today is the day offseason workouts begin. QBs can throw to receivers…with no other players involved. Most importantly, strength coach Barry Rubin can get hands on with the players. We need him all over Jeremy Maclin, Jarrett, and all the young LBs. Jarrett may be his most important pupil. Jarrett needs to get bigger and stronger. His size was good enough for him to be a punisher in the MAC, but not the NFL.
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We talked yesterday about the importance of Peter King. Check out his draft thoughts.
Sheil Kapadia has up some draft nuggets. He made mention of Sam and something he said on Twitter. Always a good read, even better when Sam gets a mention.
* * * * *
Fletcher Cox mentioned in a recent interview that Jim Washburn did go down and work him out. This isn’t huge news to me. Cox is such a perfect fit for the Wide-9 that I’ve assumed the Eagles interest in an almost factual way. Kinda like if you tell me there’s a Megan Fox look-alike who sells pudding for a living…you know I’m interested.
* * * * *
Matt Alkire wrote about finding elite players in the top of the draft.
I think Jarret, Watkins, Rolle and Kelce really step forward this year. They all have the pedigree to be very good players. They were stars at their respective schools. Rolle and Watkins both seemed to “get it” at the end of the year last year. With a year in the weight room and with their position coaches they should make huge strides. Kelce just needs to get stronger and work on his pass protection with Mudd. He seemed to get the mental part of the game for the most part. Jarret appeared to be thinking too much when he saw the field. He didn’t want to make a mistake so he overthought his assignment. At Temple, he knew where he was to be, and what everyone on his defense was doing around him. He was comfortable and could play his punishing style. If Rubin can get 5-10lbs of muscle on him, and Bowles immerse him in the play book, he will feel MUCH more comfortable this year when he gets on the field. I think he could be a nice compliment to Allen at SS. I still think the Eagles sign Yerimiah Bell after the draft. They need a security blanket and he is a perfect fit. Tackling machine and knows Bowles. Bell will also be a great mentor to JaiJar and bring out the best of him via competition.
Oh…BTW..please Flyers close this out and don’t let the Pens back in it!! This city is miserable this morning. I take SOOO much heat from Steeler nation and Pens fans for repping Philly. One of my co-workers has to wear a Hartnell Jersey on Friday if they are swept. He is livid about that. He is a hated man in this city.
I’m in State College so it’s roughly 50/50 Flyers/Pens. This series has been awesome.
I wouldn’t mind seeing the Eagles bring in Deon Grant as the veteran safety. I also wonder how much Melvin Bullit, Gibril Wilson, and Jim Leohnard have left.
What was your opinion of his game vs. Arizona? I thought he did an OK job. He did bat away a pass against Fitz, but Fitz caught it after ended up going in the air. There was one other play where he played the deep pass against Fitz really well, but Larry was able to catch it anyway as he extended out his 6’4 body to got after the ball. It was disappointing however that he wasn’t able to play against NE, NY, or SEA during the other 3 weeks.
Peter King in his MMQB stated that the Eagles won’t trade up to picks 3-8. It was implied that it was for Tannehill since his paragraph was structured on that, but it could also mean we won’t trade up for Cox/Claiborne. If Claiborne falls to 7, I’d love to trade up for him. He’d be dynamic in this defense.
Truly great article by King. Each page got better. His thoughts and afterthoughts are a riot.
I realize that the trade value chart isn’t exactly precise (especially now), but how likely is it that we give up our first (1050) and first second (440) to get Jacksonville’s first (1500)? They’re probably open to trading down, and we could target Tannehill, Clairborne, or maybe even Cox if we like him that much.
RE: trading up
King’s point about the value of KC’s 11th pick is an interesting one… I’m sure part of what is happening is the Eagles F.O. doing their “due diligence” because the way that draft pick values are changing right now… for all we know their may be less competition to get up to 7 and the collective “value” might be cheaper for the Eagles.
Let’s say for arguments sake the Eagles really want Cox.
They’ve found out that to get to 11 they need to trade their 1st and 3rd round picks
but
To get to 7 they can trade a 1st, 6th, and Asante Samuel.
Given the choice between the two… I just might make the jump to 7 (if I value the players that will be on my board in the 3rd round (which I think the Eagles will)).
RE: Peter King says Eagles Won’t move up to Picks 3-8
I read that to mean either of two things.
ONE . . . after having sent Doug Pedersen to A&M for a close up on Tannehill, the Eagles brass do not project that Tannehill is an elite QB in need of some Aaron Rodgers-bench time (call this the “MOrton Theory”). Had Tannehill measured up, we’d have never seen King write that blurb.
TWO . . . the Eagles absolutely want to trade up and have put out disinformation through King.
The only problem I have with “No. 2” is that King has in the past written along the lines the Eagles brass were thinking.
Like T-LAW — and I think MOrton and Kammich — the Eagles see the 2012 draft as having no more than 6 elite prospects: Luck, Griffin (I’m tired of his moniker), Claiborne, Richardson, and probably Blackmon and Khalil.
Tannehill — as MOrton has been saying — is NOT worth a trade into the Top 8. Not for now. Not for next year. Not for 4 years from now.
If King’s to be believed (and I like his track record with the Eagles), the Birds have reached the same conclusion.
My 2 cents:
These are the only players I would trade up for:
1. Andrew Luck
2. Robert Griffin III
3. Matt Kalil
4. Morris Claiborne
5. Justin Blackmon
6. Melvin Ingram
7. Luke Kuechly
8. Fletcher Cox
These are the non-need guys I would draft if they fell to #15:
1. Trent Richardson
2. David DeCastro
3. Trent Richardson
4. Dre Kitpatrick
If these guys were the best available I’d trade down:
1. Michael Floyd
2. Dontari Poe
3. Mark Barron
4. Riley Reiff
5. Quinton Coples
These are the 1st round draft picks I’d settle with or trade down for:
1. Whitney Mercilus
2. Courtney Upshaw
3. Nick Perry
4. Ryan Tannenhill
5. Michael Brockers
6. Coby Fleener
I see you like Trent Richardson…
But yeah… good list!
Whitney Mercilus ftw if we trade down that is
Good list and decision levels. One exception: I think Kirkpatrick fills a position of need—slot corner and solid replacement for Nnamdi and DRC in the event of injury, as well as a couple of years ahead.
I think we are remembering Jarrett a little harshly:
Game Review – Bears 30 – Eagles 24
JARRETT — Took Nate’s place and played well. Had 3 solo tackles. Missed one tackle that I could tell. Came up to get Forte and I think was caught off guard by Matt’s speed. Wasn’t able to bring him down. Took on the FB on a run play and stuffed him, helping to bottle up Forte. That’s something I’m not sure any other S on the roster does. Looked okay in coverage. Didn’t stand out, good or bad. Looks like we’ve got another talented young Safety.
Game Review – ARZ 21, PHI 17
JARRETT — Got his first NFL start and boy was he a busy man. Had 7 tackles (6 solo). Got run over by Wells on one run up the middle. This ain’t the MAC, Jaiquawn. Generally did well in coverage. Just missed an INT while covering Fitz in the 4th. Would have been a huge play. We were up 7 and would have had the ball near FG range. Jarrett undercut the WR perfectly and was right there to make the play. Just couldn’t make a clean grab. Ball bounced off him and Fitz caught it. Even on those plays when Fitz did beat him, Jarrett never looked lost. I think he showed a lot of good traits.
He obviously needs considerable work but I really don’t think our needs at Safety are all that dire.
[deleted]
lol. T-LAW stands for Tommy Lawlor. I always why you started every post with T-LAW.
RE: Eagles Drafting a QB
My money’s on Brandon Weeden — premised on the assumptions that the Eagles (i) see Vick as effectively in the last year of his contract, and (ii) don’t see Kafka as the longterm answer, and (iii) have evaluated Weeden as worth a pick in the 20s of Rd 1.
Yes, Weeden’s “older.” But so was Watkins. And no one in the Eagles F.O. has said Watkins was a mistake for that reason. So you can draw the inference that the Eagles won’t let age skew their valuation.
And, as for age, one TRENT GREEN, Univ Indiana ’93, can’t be found on Profootballreference.com until he turned age 27.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeTr00.htm
Green was even cut by the BC Lions in 1994 and knocked around a bit until catching on with the ‘Skins as a backup in 1997 at age 27.
But then from ages 28-35, Green just got better and better. And except for a couple of terrible concussions, he’d have played productively to at least age 38.
IF (big “if”) Weeden’s a player who’d have been a Top 10 pick but for his age, why not take a shot. Like I said, Trent Green blossomed at age 28 and had a nice 10-year run.
Weeden could to the same if he’s got the talent.
Good argument.
So what’s your “grade” on Weeden? At what point in the draft does he become BPA?
Do we really wanna can Vick after this season for a second year QB who will turn 30 once the 2013 season starts!?
I’m not advocating getting rid of Vick… I absolutely love athletic QBs. I was just hoping that AC would give an opinion on where Weeden becomes a good draft value. My thought is that if he’s still available in the 3rd round Andy could be intrigued. But I would be hard pressed to value him any higher than that. Although, I doubt he is still available when we draft in the 3rd round given how many QB starved teams there are.
I think our next franchise QB has to come in ’13 or ’14
One thing I look at with college QBs, performance against the top defenses they play.
Tannehill played 5 pass defenses in the top 50, 56%, 6 YPA, 8-10. Bleech, Mr. stat pad.
Weeden only played 3 and put up better, but not great numbers
RGIII put up spectacular numbers against the best defenses he played. Better than he did against the rest of his schedule.
That’s the difference between a prospect and an elite prospect.
A well formed counter
top 15 and the agles have said that watkins was a one time thing…in reference to a draft pick being in that age range getting drafted my us
I like to subscribe to the Pete Carroll USC school of thinking of competition competition competition. You want to give guys a chance to see what they can do 2,3 yrs into their career but at the same time you can’t avoid talented players there on the board.
It’s a shame that Kapadia works for Philly.com
“Let’s not draft the criminals!”
— Eagle_1960
“How do you keep your job???”
— dwilly
Yeah, he’s good. The comments there are terrible.
Glad to read in MTC that the Eagles are working out Jerel Worthy. He is perfect for to rotate in for Jenkins at Washburn’s UT. They could hope he falls to the 2nd round pick, or they may be better off trading down to get him, taking the extra guy, rather than taking Cox at 15. Brockers would also be good for UT tho.
What makes you think Brockers would be a great UT? He was a run stuffer who was taken off the field in passing downs. Just interested in why you think he’s a UT and not more if a NT
He gets off the snaps and into the gaps better than Cox, doesn’t he? He didn’t get many sacks in college but could fit as a UT under Washburn.
cox is more of a wash guy but it will be interesting to see what happens draft day
I agree it’s risky to take a guy for UT at 15 (Brockers) that didn’t get many sacks in college, but I gather he gets into gaps better, and can play NT. I also think it’s probably better to take Kirkpatrick at 15 than trade down.
Since I’m sorta defending myself down here near the right margin, I note that Kiper is agreeing with me on Tannehill, and the columnist who noted this in Minnesota listed Wilson as a sleeper… giving the exact same 2012 QB forecast as me.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/147667605.html
Hey Tommy,
I’ve been reading your blog for a while now. Great stuff and its always followed up with great discussion by your readers.
Anyway, speaking of current players that need to be challenged next year, how about Stanley Havili? Unless I’m mistaken, he is the only fullback we have on our roster, which makes me uncomfortable. Despite his obvious talent, he still has not proven anything. With that in mind, do you think we should try to target a fullback in the later rounds in the draft? Any particular ones that you love in this draft class or would fit well with our system?
A lot of the guys around here want to see what Havili is made of this offseason. I think most consider that he is athletically gifted enough to play in the NFL, especially given his ability to be used as a pass catching FB. The biggest knock on the kid is that he seems to lack that “knack” that a great FB needs of seeking contact… wanting to pick a fight or kill someone every time he’s on the field. If hanging out with the beer truck for a year doesn’t rub some of that off on ya, I’m not sure what will.
So in short, I’m no “Tommy” but my guess is that he would say bring on the competition!
I agree that his pass catching skills could add an exciting dynamic to our offense, but as you said, his contact and blocking skills are suspect. I do not know anything about the fullback class this year. Who are the top prospects? Does it make sense for the eagles to use a 5th or 6th pick on any of them? If not, I guess we will just add an undrafted rookie to compete with Havili
“The Eagles don’t want to trade up from 15 to anywhere between three and eight.”
This comment by Peter King makes a lot of sense to me, which is why I didn’t get too worked up by Friday’s rumor of moving up to 4: the cost would be too high. Heck, even moving to 9 would cost us Asante and our 3rd, if you value him as a mid to late 3rd rounder. But Carolina is logical because of the Eagles connections there. The question is whether they’d be willing to forego Fletcher Cox with the idea that either Brockers or Poe could be sitting there for them at 15. They’d still be getting one of the top 3 DT, plus a pick and an all-pro cb. I would be tempted by that offer….if it is an offer…
I wasn’t too worried about that float-up-to-4 rumor either. I’m not even so sure about these go up to 7 and 9 rumors, although anything that doesn’t cost one of the seconds (or includes Asante) immediately becomes more palatable.
The only part that strikes me as odd is that the Eagles rarely telegraph their moves, and everyone’s got them moving up this week, which means we probably should expect a move back or a stay put.
I’m not saying I want them to move up necessarily. Just looking for logical trading partners. I would think Kansas City would be another one. I could just as easily see them stay put and choose BPA or move back and get another pick.
Washburn seems to be a man of deliberate action.think of it.cox wasn’t invited to iggles’ facility.Wash went to Cox..not the other way around.That’s a huge stamp of approval in my book.just imagine Wash and Cox forming a bond..and Jim has Cox playing out of his mind as a rookie…wreaking havoc in the backfield….winning DROY…..hmmm…nice!
Two yrs ago, they passed on JJP, great physical ability, with big upside and attendant risk. Clearly, the upside of JPP was greater than that of Graham, but they decided the risk of failure was too great and went with the safer choice. Somebody, whether it was Roseman or Reid, screwed up big time. They have to be embarrassed by that blunder which will haunt them for years. Poe reminds me of JPP. If Cox is off the board and they draft Poe at 15, I think it may be an effort at redemption, even if it is subconscious, and probably another mistake
That is simply not true my friend. They didn’t passed on JPP, they targated specifically Graham, just like the Giants and the Titans according to reports. Graham was a great prospect, had almost the whole package. His only question mark was his height. He had the production, the game tape, the consistency, the super Senior Bowl showing, and so on. Many analyst tipped Graham to be the DROY after the draft. Yes, JPP had big upside, but also big risk. Was it a higher upside than Graham’s? In some aspects yes (measurables). We traded up for a pass rusher, for the seemed to be sure thing, you don’t trade up for a big risk, if it’s not a QB. The Giants was in a different situation, they stayed put so they had to choose between JPP and Morgan. They could afford the risk, we couldn’t sacrifice multiple picks for a “1-year wonder”. That was a good decision at the time. You can blame the team for selecting bad position, bad players after they didn’t pan out, but I can’t blame them for this pick. Yes JPP can hunt us for years, but that could be the same, if we stayed put.
On the plus side, give Graham some time, it really nobody’s fault that he teared his ACL. He can have a make or break year now, and I will support he until he proves that he isn’t the same player he was once, or could have been.
Clearly:
1. in a clear, distinct, or obvious manner
I clearly don’t agree with your use of the word clearly. Graham was the better prospect, and had the better rookie season in my opinion, but I’m not inclined to call players a “bust” based on injury.
Disqus generic email templateI didn’t call Graham a bust. However, even if he fully recovers from his injury, and becomes the player they expected him to be when he was drafted, I don’t expect him to be as good as JPP. He simply doesn’t measure up physically. In addition, the fact that he allowed himself to get so out of shape last year clearly raises a red flag, if nothing else. In my opinion, if they had realized that JPP would realize his full potential, or close to it, he was the player they would have drafted. —– Original Message —–
From: Disqus
To: mheil125@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 3:31 PM
Subject: [igglesblitz] Re: What About Us?
Mac wrote, in response to mheil:
Clearly:
1. in a clear, distinct, or obvious manner
I clearly don’t agree with your use of the word clearly. Graham was the better prospect, and had the better rookie season in my opinion, but I’m not inclined to call players a “bust” based on injury.
Link to comment
Just trying to make my response humorous.
FYI I still don’t agree with your premise.
Is it just me or why do I find that Cox is not really worth a trade up into the top 10!?
There’s only ONE (borderline realistic) player I would trade up for and that is Claiborne. If the Eagles can get him for our first, a 2nd and a 3rd, so be it. If it costs more, then stay put or trade back, preferably for a 1st in 2013.
However I got this funny feeling that the Eagles will shock us all in the first round when most of us will say WTF….
“However I got this funny feeling that the Eagles will shock us all in the first round when most of us will say WTF….”
They always do 🙂 Maybe this time the shocking part will be that they draft somebody the fans covet too 🙂 Nobody can see that one coming, ha? 😀
I’m praying that we don’t draft Tannenhill or Poe in the 1st round. In regards to Cox, I would only trade up for him if it costs us less than a 2nd round pick to move up. He is a good fit for our scheme.
I really hope we avoid trading up this year. It’s a really deep draft and I feel like if we stay put or trade down, we could get quality players at SAM, slot corner, slot wide receiver, and kickoff/punt returner (hopefully in the form of either the receiver or corner) If we could address those 4 positions in the first 2 or 3 rounds, I’ll be the happiest man alive. Dream draft for me is Luke in the first, and then Samu and Boykin with our two seconds. Anybody else with me?
I would be very happy with that, along with various other combos of SLB, Boykin or Hosley, Sanu or Joe Adams, etc … I mean I think you hit the key positions of need. Although we’re not desperate for starters, we could really use a boost or stand to get better at the spots you mentioned.
I’d be happy with a QB too but I just want to see us make use of those second-round picks and not waste them on a trade-up for a guy that’s comparable to what we could have had at 15.
Agreed. We’re in very good position to come out of this draft with a high number of quality prospects. This draft could push us over the line between average teams and serious superbowl contenders. I hope we don’t blow it. If we take a QB, I would prefer him to be a mid to late round pick. Someone like Wilson perhaps. If he doesn’t work out, we can focus on getting more of a sure thing (or as close as you can get to that) in the draft next year. Also, the DT class is very deep, so I don’t see the need to take one early. I think the positions I’ve listed (strong side linebacker, slot receiver, slot corner, and kickoff returner) could stand to improve more than our d-line could with our current group of players this year. The stakes are high this year. I want immediate improvement with our top draft picks. We don’t need anymore projects in the first few rounds.
Look at this, a couple of damn K-Macs agreeing.
I’m very much in line with this thinking. We have few needs, but stuff we could definitely accentuate. I think DT is focused on so much because of the quality of prospects, but I wouldn’t be mad if we ignored it altogether, especially with Landri back in the fold and Thornton being something of a wild-card. Same with QB, I would be happy with a guy, but not distraught if we don’t get one. WR, S, etc. same.
The only thing I think we must have is an SLB candidate, and that can come anytime. This is probably a great way to go into a draft, stress-free and all gravy. The Eagles’ offseason so far, and their quick move to get Bell when Peters went down, contributed to that, and we should try to appreciate it and enjoy this one.
Kuechly, Curry, Boykin
Tannehill, Sanu, Wolfe
Cox, David, Hosley
Fleener, Wagner, Reyes
Just give me a top 3 I can get excited about.
I agree with you.
I have my doubts the Eagles would trade up anyways. They have in the past, but the price was never dramatic. Even with the buyers market situation, I still think it will take some resources to move up in the top 10.
However, if Cox makes it out of the top 10, then I could see a trade up.
but, who knows? def. not me
The way I look at it is what happens if the starter goes down:
Cooper stepped in and outproduced DeSean in the three games he started, Eagles gained 370 yards a game, didn’t score a lot, but I think that had something to do with VY starting all three games. Point is Cooper may not be a great WR, but he’s good enough to step in and be a legitimate deep threat outside (he showed the ability to highpoint and catch over his shoulder, now if he’d just learn to run intermediate routes and make routine catches!).
Would anyone be comfortable with Lewis getting 200 carries and pass blocking for Vick on a regular basis? Which is why Martin is a priority target in my book, way ahead of any WR in this draft. Martin could step right into this offense as a rookie.
Coleman has shown he can start if Jarrett comes up short, he may not be great, but look around the league, he’d be in the top 40 or so of the 64 starting safeties.
So to me, backup RB is the highest priority, along with SLB and DT. Love Landri, but not for more than 400 snaps and Dixon is a big question mark. If you trade Asante, comes down to how ready they feel Marsh is, he certainly matches up physically against any CB in this draft.
WR has become like RB, a position where you can get top talent in the middle and later part of the draft – of the 20 yardage leaders at WR, 9 were picked (found) from the fourth round or further back (including a number of UDFAs) and Nelson was a 2nd rd pick. With the advent of spread offenses in college, there are far more athletic WRs with substantial game experience. So only use a 1st rd pick when there’s great (not just good) value, like if Blackmon fell to #15. And I might still go with Hemingway in the 5th, imagine the numbers he’d put up in a spread offense.
I think this is definitely a draft to trade back and stockpile picks in the 2nd to 4th rounds, great depth at LB, lots of Washburn type DTs, hate the DEs, hate the safeties (I’d be looking at CBs to convert), lots of candidates for nickel CB, OL is thin, WR is deep, TE is thin, RB is average. Good draft for the Eagle needs, bad draft where they pick (right now Luke may be their only hope).
I agree a backup RB is more important and has more value for us in the 2nd than a WR. I’ve been saying for a while that we could get a good WR in the 3rd thru 5th.
So what was your reaction to every Eagles pick in the past decade?
2011: Danny Watkins
WTF? He’s 27 years old. What the Hell is wrong with you Andy?
2010: Brandon Graham
Are you serious? We passed up on Earl Thomas? This is 2003 all over again
2009: Jeremy Maclin
ummm, ok, He doesn’t fill a position of need but he’s a decent pick
2008: Trevor Laws
You make us wait 3 hours just to draft Trevor effin Laws?
2007: Kevin Kolb
HOLY #$%^!! WHO THE HELL IS THIS GUY? MCNABB IS ONLY 30 YEARS OLD!
2006: Broderick Bunkley
Why couldn’t you be aggressive and trade up for Haloti Ngata?
2005: Mike Patterson
Meh.
2004: Shawn Andrews
We could have drafted Vince Wilfork! This was a reach.
2003: Jerome McDougle
Super Bowl!
2002: Lito Sheppard
Oh Snap. Bye Bye Troy Vincent
2001: Freddie Mitchell
Super Bowl!
Shawn Andrews was a reach? He looked like a HOF guard when he played. He straight up dominated.
You couldn’t predict his back problems, and then his eventual bouts of depression and suicide thoughts.
Ngata is a 3-4 NT. That is where he best fits, and that is why he is a 3-4 probowl NT.
I remember watching that draft and remember them talking about how he was going to go to a 3-4 D.
Nobody could have predicted Mcdougles injury problems. I don’t think he had an injury problem in college. And nobody could have predicted that he would have been shot.
Sorry, those were my reactions after they made the pick. Not what I think now
Oh, my apologies, read your comment wrong. Re-read it now and I see.
Not to spoil your joke, but:
2011: Finally, no more Nick Cole/MJG platoon at RG!
(Also liked Henery, Mathews and Rolle)
2010: Admittedly baffled, but very happy with Nate Allen with the McNabb pick at No. 37. We needed a blue-chip safety, and at the time, not getting Earl but getting the No. 3 safety of the draft AND Brandon Graham seemed nice.
2009: Nearly wet my shorts when we got a guy (McCoy) I would have been happy with at 21 with pick No. 53, AND the WR the Raiders should have drafted at 7 instead of Darrius Heyward-Bey.
2008: No idea who Trevor Laws is, but thrilled with DeSean Jackson two picks later. Was not mad about the Dallas/Anthony Spencer tradeback. Drafted lots of guys so you’d think we’d have gotten some steals, but this draft was mostly a steaming pile. Liked my boy Studebaker from D-III Wheaton.
2007: Wanted Brandon Meriweather to be groomed as Dawk’s replacement. Everything after we didn’t get Meriweather or Griffin or Ross ruined that draft for me. Kind of liked the Kolb pick. In hindsight, this draft also a steaming pile.
2006: Wanted Ngata or Justice at 14. Thrilled to get Bunk and then Justice at 39. Plus like most Eagles fans I was giddy over Jeremy Bloom’s potential (You revisionists can front all you like)
2005: Patterson kinda meh, though I liked Reggie Brown. I had been working for an NFL-specific publication that year and actually knew who Moats, Considine and Trent Cole were, and liked those picks. Picking 31st is a hell of a wait, but we’re going back to the Super Bowl so who cares! McNabb to healthy T.O. is gonna be unstoppable for years to come!
2004: The most meh draft since the Jon Harris one. I saw Colorado State play UVa. and remembered Dexter Wynn and Cecil Sapp beasting, so that fifth rounder was my favorite pick. Liked that we had a dude named Furio since that was the enforcer on the Sopranos’ name.
2003: LOOOOOVED L.J. Smith and Billy McMullen, and thought the McDougle move showed great aggression. Thank God I’m not a GM.
2002: Baffled at the time, this turned out to be the best and most forward-thinking Eagles draft of the Reid era. Lito, Sheldon, Michael Lewis and Westbrook all became starters and key contributors.
2001: Didn’t hate the Freddie Mitchell pick. Would have preferred David Terrell, Koren Robinson or maybe Rod Gardner. Reggie Wayne, Chad Johnson and Steve Smith were famously selected afterward, but I think only Santana Moss and Wayne succeeded out of the first-round WRs that year. So we had a 2/3 (4 out of 6) chance of being screwed no matter what we did.
2000: Corey Simon. Hard to go nuts over a DT.
1999: Thought the fans were dumb as rocks for clamoring for Ricky (who didn’t even go in front of Edgerrin) when we had Duce coming off a 1,065-yard season though he shared carries with Charlie Garner, and Hoying, Koy Detmer and Peete were the QBs. Truth is anyone with some sense knew we wanted and needed a QB that year and the only one I didn’t want was Akili Smith. I was THRILLED with the McNabb pick, although if we’re being honest, I would have been thrilled with Tim Couch. And who knows, maybe Reid would have made him a star.
For reference:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3700&type=team
Nice man, yeah, I’m with you on that post. I’ll also add that during the 2010 training season that I was very happy to read that JPP was struggling with the Giants training camp due to back spasms. Morgan got injured too, so it really looked like we had the best pick at that time.
Major sucks that both Graham and Allen got serious leg injuries. Just typical Eagles’ bad luck.
RE: my Brandon Weeden – QB comment
In writing that comment, I wrestled briefly with offering an opinion on when Weeden becomes worth taking (Top 20 / Top 40 / Top 60).
He has great size — 6’4″ 220lb or so.
Decent mobility.
His arm, by all accounts, is very good.
He has lots of experience and obvious maturity.
As I noted in my post above, when the 1st round hits the 20s, I think Weeden’s in play.
Do I think he’s worth a pick in the 20s? MAYBE.
Do I think he’s worth a pick at the top of Rd 2. YES . . . and worth a trade-up.
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Poster MAC said the Birds should look to 2013 or 2014 for the next QB.
Maybe so.
Here’s the concern. As long as AR’s coaching the Eagles, it’s not unreasonable to think that the Birds will be drafting in the second half of the 1st round. That means they’ll be in exactly the same position they’re in this year, and even worse. Premium QBs (and not so premium QBs, eh MOrton) are now slotted in the Top 10.
Weeden, but for his age, would be a *premium* QB, at least the way the NFL operates these days. There’s no question in my mind that he’s a better passer than Ponder or Locker — Nos. 12 and 8 in 2011. And, given his experience, I think he’d grade close to Tannehill.
But Weeden’s age will absolutely push him down in the draft — at least, that’s the conventional wisdom.
In the past, at least pre-Howie, the Eagles have drafted players they perceived as undervalued for one reason or another (e.g., Jack *Iguana*).
Weeden could be a guy like that. And as a QB, maybe he’s worth moving back into the latter part of the 1st round . . . as long as you keep 2013’s 1st-rd pick.
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All that said, I don’t know how T-LAW sees Weeden.
And I defer entirely to T-LAW’s assessment.
AC, I could not agree more. The price to get up from 15 to where Tannehill is is going to be less than to get up from the mid-20s to whereever the QBs are next year, so if you think Tannehill is the guy, it’s worth considering.
My personal opinion is trading either of the 2s is a deal-breaker, but a future 1 (again on the premise that it should be a low 1) or a 3 this year could be in play.
Weeden, I like the idea of getting a guy that can play while others fear his age, but I think Vick has more than one year left, so I think he’s a better fit for a team that needs him sooner, and someone will pounce on him before he falls far enough to where we have to consider it.
That said, if we haven’t heard a peep of Eagles/Weeden … we’ve got to consider it, and that all the Tannehill interest is smokescreen. Such is pre-draft time, when nothing has to be considered something lol
RE: Asante Samuel nixing trades
RE: Asante Samuel nixing trades
Off topic — and I’d wager T-LAW is writing a post as I write here — Matt Alkire reports via Twitter that Samuel’s vetoed two trades because he’s “asking for too many years . . . . ”
https://twitter.com/#!/MattAlkire/status/192009301580185602
If true, with Asante being owed $9.5 MM this year (and being over 30 years old), is he holding all the cards on any trade?
Is he forcing the Eagles to cut him loose? Or keep him?
Thinking back to the pre-2011 season deal the Eagles were rumored to have with the Lions (for two[?] 2nd-days picks), was the problem that because the Lions had a Cap squeeze and Asante really didn’t want to pay there, he declined to redo his deal?
If that’s the case, no matter which team agrees to take AS off the Eagles’ hands, if redoing his deal is important for cap reasons, then for Asante, to paraphrase the philosopher he thinks “now it is his time, that he will be the one to hold the strings.”
If Asante waits until after the draft, the Eagles can decide when they cut him loose, like after they look at the CBs they’ve drafted in mini-camps. At that point he’s scrambling for a job and taking peanuts on a one year deal – because if he’s not traded before the draft some of his potential teams will draft CBs in the first couple rounds and won’t want to pay him top dollar.
He’s playing hardball, but the fact they have some suitors says a deal can be done as soon as he wakes up and smells the roses. Eagles don’t have to pay him until September, so they can wait until the time is right to cut him (i.e. they can come to agreement with Shady but delay signing the new contract until TC).
Clay Harbor is my “what about us” guy. Everybody wants Fleener and I’m sure that dude is a beast and more TEs that can create mismatches the better. But I feel like we’ve barely scratched the surface of what Clay can do and I want to see his usage go up this year. Guy looks like he can run and catch, and his blocking — which was supposed to be the weak suit — seems to be what we’ve used him to do mostly so far.
Thing is… I think the Eagles could find a way to keep 3 TEs on the roster, but that’s just my opinion.
I definitely don’t think Harbor and Fleener are mutually exclusive, especially if Fleener is the type of guy who can split out wide, or even halfway live up to the Jimmy Graham comparisons, and Harbor continues to be a useful blocking TE.
I just think the Eagles haven’t really tapped Harbor’s pass-catching potential, which is what made him an intriguing draft pick to begin with. So if we do or don’t get Fleener, I still want to see them use Harbor more in Year 3.
Fleener supposedly ran at 241 lbs at his pro day, Graham ran the same speed at the combine at 260 lbs. The comparisons are not apt.
With Fleener, you have to project how fast he’ll run at 255 lbs, b/c with his frame, he’ll have to get at least that big to be a passable NFL blocker at TE. And I suspect at that weight he’s no faster than Harbor.
Yeah, I am down with Clay Harbor for sure. I have been advocating dropping the FB position and having Harbor become a “dual threat” to get him on the field more.
I am intrigued with the idea of having an aggressive “big man” down in the RZ… of course this can be handled without using a draft pick by getting Plax.
Hey Tommy, Whats up with Matt’s tweet about Asante holding up trades?
It’s probably he is simply getting up in age and while he is willing to reconstruct the money part of the deal, he also wants years added on to secure a long term job.
Also, he probably wants to be on a good team, and it’s possible that the teams inquiring about him are poor teams overall.
The reality is, Asante has a lot of say in any potential trade. I doubt many (if any) teams will want to pay Asante what he is due to earn this year and next year, so any team that trades for him will want to make sure he restructures and even more so, take a significant pay cut. So if Asante really doesn’t want to be traded or has a particular set of teams he wants to play for, he could dictate that trade or force the Eagles to cut him rather than trade him.
The reality is, Asante has a lot of say in any potential trade. I doubt many (if any) teams will want to pay Asante what he is due to earn this year and next year, so any team that trades for him will want to make sure he restructures and even more so, take a significant pay cut. So if Asante really doesn’t want to be traded or has a particular set of teams he wants to play for, he could dictate that trade or force the Eagles to cut him rather than trade him.
Hey Tommy just curious, but what was your reaction, and what did you say on this site when the Eagles drafted Kolb?
I’d be shocked if he said anything on this site, since it’s less than a year old.
Before IgglesBlitz there was IgglesBlog, and before Tommy joined IB, there was … shoot, what the heck was it called? Eagles Blitz?
(looks it up on the interwebz)
Oh, thought this site was older then that, had no idea.
I tried to find his assessment on Scouts Notebook but apparently the previous draft archived stuff is gone. From what I remember, Tommy liked Kolb a lot. I remember being baffled by the pick so I went straight to his rankings to see that he had him as the 3rd rated QB behind Russell and Quinn (a lot of people were high on Beck and Stanton as the 3rd and 4th QBs). I’m sure he’ll have the writeup on hand and post it later, but I remember him being fine with the pick and where he was selected.
Could Riley Cooper or Mardy Gilyard play slot WR?
It would obiously be best for Maclin and Jackson to stay outside, even though Maclin is able to play inside. Where is Tommy Streeter projected? 3-6? A round 7 WR Nelson Rosario but he would probably be more of a red zone threat. I just want the draft to be over with and eagles to have a slot corner, return specialist, SAM, DT, redzone threat, slot WR, backup OL all somehow acquired.
Tommy, I get the impression that this year is kind of a weak draft at the top, I get the feeling this is the kind of draft where the eagles could trade out of the 1st round for picks next year if they can swing it. Seems like the Eagle thing to do.
No disrespect to your comment, but I feel like we say this every year, and looking back at the drafts where the Eagles heavily invested in the middle rounds (2007-09), it really hasn’t paid great dividends for them.
I’m eager to see what they do with a mid-round 1 and two 2s, although I won’t be angry if they move around some to add value.
The odds have to be almost 50-50 that the Eagles will trade down – maybe they’ll trade far down and pick up a 1st next year, sort of like they did with Carolina a few years back.
I think if Cox is not on the board they very may well do that. I for one wouldn’t mind having 3 2nds.
Was on some site, forget what it was. It was a link affiliated with nfl.com. Anyway, 2 mock drafts have us taking Brockers, one had us taking Poe, and the other Cox.
I just don’t see the Eagles taking Brockers or Poe. Especially Poe with the 15th pick.
However I would love it if Cox were added to our D-line rotation.
About Cox. We all know he is a disruptive pass rusher, but how does he fair against the run? I feel as though this is not something we have really discussed about him, unless I missed it of course.
Tommy:
Assuming Kuechly and Cox are gone at 15, I have to think CB Stephon Gilmore is in play. The guy has return ability, solid character guy, played lights out against SEC competition. Plus he has not been linked to the iggles in any way….visits, workouts, interviews, etc.
Your thoughts sir? Anyone else’s thoughts for that matter. I love the pre-draft anticipation on here
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