Big Picture

Posted: November 27th, 2012 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 109 Comments »

We’ve got a lot to talk about.  Rather than try to tackle everything at once, let’s just go over some key stuff in a simplistic manner.

* Andy Reid will be fired in January.  I know there are a few people who think he should stay because of his track record.  I understand where you are coming from.  Here’s the deal.  Reid is still a good coach.  The problem is that he’s no longer the right coach for the Eagles.  His bag of tricks is empty.  The things he used to do to get teams to respond…they no longer work.  This isn’t about him “losing the locker room”.  The players still love Andy.  For whatever reason, something isn’t clicking.  It is simply time for a change.

* Jeff Lurie has a huge decision to make.  He has to decide where to go from here.  Who will be the new coach of the Philadelphia Eagles?  Does he go for a Jon Gruden type?  Does he roll the dice on a college coach?  Does he go for an up and coming NFL assistant?

* Lurie also must decide how Howie Roseman factors into all of this.  Should he help pick the coach?  Is he just going to have to live with who Lurie picks?  Should Howie keep his job?

I want to jump in on this angle and talk about something.  The Eagles biggest problem is not a lack of talent.  Roseman is far from perfect, but he’s not as bad as his harshest critics make him out to be.  The Eagles skill players (Vick, Shady, Bryce, Havili, Celek, DJax, Mac, Avant, Cooper) are up there with the best in the NFL as an overall group.  The OL was good last year.  Jason Peters might be the best LT in the league.  As of Sept. 1, we thought we had the best DL in the league.  DeMeco Ryans is a good MLB.  Mychal Kendricks looks like a good OLB.  The CB trio of Nnamdi, DRC, and Boykin played very well back in September.  Alex Henery is a very good young PK.

The problem is that the talent is under-performing.  Vick has had a bad season.  Maclin is all over the place, partially due to injury.  Celek has had a bad case of the drops.  The OL is injured.  Danny Watkins showed minimal progress and Todd became inconsistent.  The DL is a mess.  Nnamdi is a major disappointment.  DRC looked outstanding for a month, but has since become a question mark.

What is more likely…that these players with strong track records suddenly forgot how to play football all in the same season or that they’re underachieving for a reason?  When you have this many guys “slump”, I think you need to look for a common denominator.  The coaches.  Something the staff is doing isn’t working, in terms of scheme, communication, and motivation.  The same players make mistake after mistake, but don’t seem to get punished.  Where is the accountability?  There is way too much a sense of entitlement with this Eagles team.

Before you think I’m putting on rose-colored glasses (what the heck are those anyway?), I do agree that personnel changes need to be made.  You don’t go 3-8 if the team is loaded.  Some guys who are under-performing need to go.  This isn’t the time to get into names.  That is worth a separate post.  The point for me is that I think this team has a good core.  You make some changes and make some upgrades and this team can be pretty darn good…if the right coach is in charge and he’s able to figure out the QB situation.

Howie Roseman is part of the problem, but I do think he can be part of the solution.  He’s coming off his best draft.  He does a good job with contracts.  There is value to keeping him and the majority of the personnel staff together.

* What kind of a power structure should the Eagles have?  Do you hire someone to be a President and oversee the coach and GM?  Do you give more power to the coach?  To the GM? Do Lurie split it evenly and then act as the tie-breaker?

* Lurie needs to figure out what he wants the Eagles to look like.  He can take a look around the league and figure out which teams he wants to steal ideas from.  I would advise him to check out the Packers, Giants, Steelers, Falcons and Ravens.  Do not look at the Patriots.  Bill Belichick is a freak.  Tom Brady is a freak.  Copying them is fool’s gold.

I would look at the Niners, Texans, and Seahawks, but with some sense of caution.  Those teams are doing well now, but most of that success is in the last 2 years. I prefer studying something that has lasted for 5 years or more.  I would study these teams to see how they went from bad or average to turning things around.  That is absolutely worth figuring out.

* Lurie needs to have a good plan.  What are his expectations for 2013?  For 2014?  And 2015?  If he wants to win right away, a certain kind of approach is needed.  If he is thinking more about the big picture, he can be more patient.  The plan and the actions need to match up.

We have had sustained success since 2000.  Life has been good.

If Lurie chooses the wrong coach and/or the team doesn’t get a good QB, the Eagles could be in for some bumpy years.  From 1988 to 2000, the Buffalo Bills had only 2 losing seasons.  9 times they won double-digit games.  Since 2001, the team has only had one winning season and that team failed to make the playoffs.  Their sustained success went away and they have been in a wilderness of suckitude ever since.  They make bad decisions and have bad luck.  They might be getting ready to fire another coach and have the team go into rebuilding phase #37.

Lurie has done a very good job of hiring people in the last 15 years.  He needs to make the right hire now for this team to get back on track and avoid becoming another version of the Buffalo Bills.

* * * * *

NFL Gimpy posted a new MAQB column yesterday.  He’s got all kinds of interesting info in there.

* * * * *

A mentioned this a few weeks back, but with all the talk of Christmas shopping, it seems appropriate to bring it up again.  One of our fellow Eagles fans is an author.  His new book is The Bro Code For Parents.  

Matt Kuhn writes for the hit show How I Met Your Mother.  He has now put out 4 books, written in the persona of Barney Stinson, the character played by Neil Patrick Harris.  Matt is a hilarious guy, in person or in print.  If you need a good laugh, check out The Bro Code For Parents.

This book is Barney’s information on how to get pregnant, what do to during the pregnancy and then how to be a parent.  Some of my favorite parts:

* There is one section of the book done in the form of a comic book – The Adventures of Human Conception.  ”Our hero races against time through the treacherously narrow caverns of fallopia…and saves Princess Egg seconds before she falls to her doom down Tampon Alley!”

I now cannot get the phrase “tampon alley” out of my head.  Classic.

* You’ll find out key information on home pregnancy tests:  ”The good news is that the significantly more affordable home-based kits are approximately 75% accurate, or when used by people who understand that only the woman is supposed to pee on it, 96%.

* There’s great advice for helping the baby during the pregnancy:  ”Studies have shown that exposing your child to music at an early age may increase his/her intelligence. Since you want to give your child the biggest advantage possible, I recommend jamming a speaker against your stomach and cranking up Van Halen’s 1984.”  Brilliant, especially Hot For Teacher.

* I love the Baby’s First Cocktail section.  My favorite is the Irish Diaper Bomb, which consists of root beer, formula, and Jameson’s whiskey.

* Barney offers a list of songs to help the baby relax and go to sleep.  Here are some:

Eleanor Rigby – The Beatles
Suicide is Painless – theme from MASH
Mad World – Donnie Darko soundtrack
Sounds of Silence – Simon and Garfunkel

What infant wouldn’t love those light-hearted classics?

If you want to support a fellow Eagles fan and get some good laughs, buy a copy of  The Bro Code For Parents.   You can buy it for yourself or give it as a Christmas gift.  All Eagles fans need something to pick up their spirits right now.  Matt’s book has had me laughing quite a bit in the last month, which is more than I can say for our beloved Eagles.


109 Comments on “Big Picture”

  1. 1 dislikedisqus said at 11:46 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    ” I would advise him to check out the Packers, Giants, Steelers, Falcons and Ravens.”
    The one thing they all have in common is they picked their QB in round 1 and he’s still there today. Keep in mind that a few years ago, everyone in the league would have told their owner to look at the Eagles as a model. A good QB makes all the difference in this business. Look at Luck and RGIII. Need to be merciless with that position. If you have to suck until you get a high draft pick in a good QB year, do it.
    In general, I think the Eagles need someone from the outside to come in and cast a fresh eye over the roster. Goal should be to rebuild over a 2 year period a la Reid 14 years ago. Dump every high-priced veteran as soon as their contract allows. Find out who among the guys with low priced contracts is a keeper and who isn’t. Right now it seems we have a lot of players who take plays off and don’t suffer the consequences but just get put back out on the field presumably because there is no one better at their position. That is not how you create a winning attitude in the NFL. Maybe if Kurt Coleman or King Dunlap had gotten cut, it might have lit a fire under the rest of the team. They couldn’t have lost anymore than they did with them.

  2. 2 47_Ronin said at 12:16 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    RE: looking at other teams

    I had the same reaction that 5 or less years ago other teams looked at and stole ideas from the Eagles. But the common element is that the successful teams got QBs early, surrounded them with talent, and didn’t overly rely on the QB b/c strong defenses and RBs help young QBs.

    I think you’re spot on with fresh eyes coming in. Tommy listed some talented players on offense (disagree on Maclin, Jimmy K. has a good post on the Eagles WR/Red Zone issues) but the defensive side of th team looks like a mess right now: one of the worse DLs and a historically dreadful secondary (lack of a pass rush contributing). The defensive talent evaluation with Reid and Roseman, and possibly just Roseman after this season, needs an overhaul.

  3. 3 JJ_Cake said at 11:49 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I would be dissaponted if we won. Why not try and get the best draft position possible? Sure made a difference for Indy and Redskins to pickup their franchise players.

    Foles didnt look great with his throws last night. He stared his receivers down, threw in bad places where a better DB would’ve picked him off. But, maybe he can be good enough if we fix the oline and get a good defensively minded coach who will play to our strength and run the rock.

    I don’t have a problem with Vick staying as long as we fix in this order: defense and oline, and special teams. Unless we get a top 5 qb like Brady… Heck maybe our team is so bad that even a top 5 qb would not look good?

    Coaching really stinks this year. That’s a crap comment from Reid to single out Brown like that. Just say he had a good game but can improve and teach or discipline behind closed doors. Mm and Ar’s philosophy of doing things their way regardless of the personnel they had has been a travesty, will be glad when they are gone.

  4. 4 GermanEagle said at 11:49 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I do agree that the Eagles won’t necessarily be in “re-building” mode. I wouldn’t use the word “re-loading” either, as there’s just too much uncertainty re the future coaching staff up in the air.
    What makes me positive though is the good core of young players. If Lurie and Howie can get rid of the right overpaid players who have reached their prime, have a lucky hand with the draft and free agency, and hire the right head coach* who lights fire back into this Eagles team, then a turnaround like the Colts wouldn’t suprise me.
    *re the future HC: the more I think about, the more I see Lurie going after a young and up-coming NFL assistant (Mike McCoy comes to my mind) rather than rolling the dice on an unproven college coach. But that’s just my gut feeling…

  5. 5 TommyLawlor said at 11:53 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Part of the coaching question is what Lurie wants. Does he want to gamble on greatness? If so, that hire will take risk. Could be college coach.

    If he wants to play it safe, going for an NFL assistant makes sense. I’m open to either ideas right now. Key is to make the right hire no matter which style you go for. Bad execution of a good plan is going to fail.

  6. 6 bdbd20 said at 11:52 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    They could learn a lot from Pittsburgh. Draft and develop your guys. Stay away from high-priced free agents. Don’t be afraid to bench players for fumbling and effort. I always root against the Steelers but there’s no organization I respect more.

  7. 7 TommyLawlor said at 11:54 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Knock against them is how old they are now. Will this team go off a cliff in a year or two?

  8. 8 bdbd20 said at 11:58 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I have heard that, but I’ll take Ben, Woodley, Timmons, Miller, Wallace, Brown, etc. in their prime any day.

  9. 9 ohitsdom said at 2:58 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Timmons… that name still makes me shudder from earlier this season.

  10. 10 holeplug said at 12:24 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    They’ll be good as long as Big Rape and Lebeau are there.

  11. 11 JJ_Cake said at 11:53 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I have never seen a defense with so much talent have such an epic fail of a season. We need more Vinny Curry’s and less Asses (asomuga and assante)

    I hope the D can be fixed, it’s so pathetic. Why do they suck so bad?????

  12. 12 TommyLawlor said at 12:32 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I’m going to cover that in a post. Still doing a bit of research for some comparison’s sake.

  13. 13 ohitsdom said at 2:57 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I kind of miss Asante. For all his flaws, at least he knows how to get turnovers.

  14. 14 SportiVore said at 11:56 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I want Chip Kelly.

    He’s an East Coast guy and he knows how to coach. Reports are that he’s pining for the NFL. It’s not without risk and I know the track record with college coaches to the NFL isn’t the greatest, but Kelly is an innovator… a genius. I think it could be a pretty exciting hire for the Eagles.

  15. 15 ACViking said at 11:56 AM on November 27th, 2012:


    1. This year’s NFL draft — in which the Eagles are creeping perilously close to the No. 1 pick — is starting to sound like the 2010 NBA draft. That’s the year the ’76ers had the 2nd-overall pick. They ended up with Evan Turner, who’s a nice player — but I don’t think he’d be in the Top 5 of any other recent NBA draft.

    2. From 1961-1977 — the 17 years after the Eagles last NFL title — the Birds had just 2 winning season: 1961 as defending champs (finishing a half-a-game from going back to the title game) and 1966 when they rotated 3 QBs in and out of just about every game (Norm Snead, King Hill, and Jack Conconnan).

    That losing all began to change with the arrival of Dick Vermeil in 1976 and QB Ron Jaworski in 1977. Vermeil brought attitude, toughness, and organization to the franchise. And Jaws was the best QB in the 15 years since the Eagles traded future HOFer Sonny Jurgensen. (Lots of other reasons, too, but Vermeil and Jaworski stand at the top.)

    But regardless of the next coach’s identity, If the Eagles can’t find a QB — and, respectfully to all, it’s not Michael Vick — the team is destined to be the Birds of the post-Van Brocklin/pre-Vermeil era. Call it the Triassic era, because it was so long ago that only about 5 or 6 readers of this blog know what I’m talking about.

    That wilderness is just over the horizon. Lurie needs to hit on a coach. And whoever calls the draft — and please NOT the coach — that person needs to re-stock this team’s depth.

    Most of all, the Eagles will need to find a QB. (Yes, maybe Foles, but who knows.)

  16. 16 Zach Reese said at 12:02 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    The Packers, Giants, Steelers, Falcons, and Ravens… What do they have in common?

    1) They have great, top-tier talent at quarterback, and they’ve built their teams around them (possible that Ravens are a bit of an exception here).

    2) They draft very well. The majority of their rosters are made of homegrown talent, and you often see these teams discussed as having the best “draft grades”, although that can be subjective. Still, they pick players that fit their system and develop them to their potential.

    3) They have head coaches that utilize great coordinators. They’ve got leadership from the top of their hierarchy, and their HC are known primarily for their disciplined coaching ability and not their X’s and O’s (McCarthy is a bit of an exception here). McCarthy aside, I don’t believe any of these other coaches have play-calling responsibilities, and many of them have experience in multiple phases of the game.

    The last point is the most overlooked in my opinion. Head coaches have a wealth of responsibility in assembling a coaching staff that they can trust to design and call plays, while they can focus on discipline, energy, and execution. While we can all salivate over names like Chip Kelly because of his X’s and O’s mastery, we need to understand that this isn’t the most important role for head coaches.

  17. 17 austinfan said at 1:40 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Packers, Ravens and Steelers focus on their own draft picks.
    Giants have brought in their share of FAs, McKenzie, Bass, Rolle, Robbins, etc.
    Falcons are unproven, let them win some playoff games. They have a great system for winning regular season games, so did Schotty.

  18. 18 ian_no_2 said at 12:08 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I didn’t get my haiku in in time for the last thread:

    the wind cries Morton
    dignity or draft order
    for who for what coach

  19. 19 TommyLawlor said at 12:33 PM on November 27th, 2012:


  20. 20 Baloophi said at 1:10 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    That’s actually very beautiful!

  21. 21 Baloophi said at 1:13 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    And here are yesterday’s entries so we can all be in one place (and keep ’em coming!)


    Serve up a scapegoat
    McDermott, Castillo, Bowles?
    None of the above

    West Coast Smash-mouth Spread
    Whichever brings us more wins
    Don’t blow it, Lurie


    Red zone woes the same,
    offense can’t score, defense blows
    Reid finally toast.


    Can’t get any worse
    We just lost to the panthers
    I stand corrected

  22. 22 ian_no_2 said at 12:10 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    The players you mentioned as being among the best in the NFL were acquired by Reid/Heckert, except for Bryce Brown (if he was so important, why didn’t they use a higher pick), Riley Cooper and Havili, of whom the last two other teams have somehow managed to win a Lombardi trophy without. GMs should come from scouting backgrounds rather than cap management.

  23. 23 TommyLawlor said at 12:35 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Howie did scout before becoming the GM.

    Do you mean more of a football background? If so, I disagree. Ron Wolf never played. Great GM. Matt Millen was a great player and awful GM. Either you know how to evaluate talent or you don’t.

  24. 24 Skeptic_Eagle said at 3:54 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Interesting, I’ve never read anything that mentioned he had a scouting background. One profile mentioned he liked to make cardboard draft boards as a hobby, and considered himself an amateur draftnik. Do you mean he actually scouted players, out on the road, for an organization, or that the Eagles put him in charge of personnel issues after they had hired him as staff counsel/salary cap masseur?

  25. 25 ohitsdom said at 2:53 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    “If he was so important, why didn’t they use a higher pick?”

    That’s not how drafts work. They knew they could get him late because of his personal issues in college and lack of experience, so why take him earlier?

  26. 26 Average__Joseph said at 12:12 PM on November 27th, 2012:


    One thing that seems to never be mentioned is the loss/removal of Joe Banner from the Eagles’ equation. Joe Banner, warts and all, played a huge role in this organization. This team and front office no longer has a “bad guy.” This is not just from the fan’s perspective but also from the players and coaches vantage point. Banner was the “boogie man”, the Eagle’s version of “Keyser Soze.” He kept everyone on their toes. Fans may have hated him but, I believe, deep down players and coaches feared him. He would be the one to make the tough choices. He would be the one that would say about a player, “No, he’s too old and doesn’t fit our plan.” Coaches could say “keep that up and Joe will get rid of you”; he was the dad to all the mom’s. I’m not saying he was a perfect leader; he had many flaws but he filled the villain role nicely. Right now there are too many “nice” people in the organization; Lurie seems nice, Reid seems nice, Roseman seems nice. And this team is the result.

    Just An Average Joseph

  27. 27 TommyLawlor said at 12:37 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Banner was critical in the past. I’m not sure his departure did much to this team, but it is possible. The failures are all over the place, not just with guys who have contract issues.

  28. 28 Average__Joseph said at 12:52 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I’m not specifically talking about contract issues but the tone that there was someone to answer to. Lurie, for whatever reason, was and is not that guy, he had Banner. I’ve seen it and I’m sure you have seen it, when the boss, the person that wields the ultimate hammer (firing, trading, cutting), is not there the underlings do not work at the same level. This isn’t about contracts, this is about that someone who makes everyone else accountable for their job. “Nothing personal, strictly business” to quote the ultimate “boss.”

    Just An Average Joseph

  29. 29 dan510 said at 12:12 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Hey Tommy

    Long time reader here, but very infrequent commenter.

    In this post, you touched on a word that really sums up the 2011/12 Eagles to me: Entitlement. It feels like many players on this team feel that they *deserve* to win games just because they are talented. There is very little humility, discipline, focus, or responsibility. Many players seem to think they can just show up and win because they are talented. It’s this kind of attitude that has really soured this team. And I think you have to pin a lot of that on Andy.

    I live in the Bay Area, and as a contrast, I get to watch a lot of 49ers football. This Niners team is the complete opposite of the Eagles. They are hard working, disciplined, team players that don’t take their success for granted. There are no divas. Harbaugh has really changed the attitude of the 49ers team in an amazing way. I know a lot of people hate on him, but I think he is a great coach who instantly instilled a great football culture in his locker room.

    I think the Eagles could learn a lot from the Niners.

  30. 30 TommyLawlor said at 12:39 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Players used to do whatever it took to win. That might be limiting mistake. Or making plays. Or coming up big on STs. They did the little things right. I miss those days.

    I do agree that the Niners are a team that does those things.

  31. 31 Cal Setar said at 12:50 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Well said.

  32. 32 LostInChiTown said at 1:17 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Absolutely. When I read the question “Where is the accountability? There is way too much a sense of entitlement..” I immediately thought of the Miami Heat from 2 years ago. And I hate the Heat…

  33. 33 Kristopher Cebula said at 2:42 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    brian dawkins shared that sentiment on first take this morning as well. he blamed the eagles woes on lack of accountability and lack of communication

  34. 34 Ark87 said at 1:17 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Semantically speaking I don’t know that entitlement sums it up. Something similar. The majority of the players are class acts. Humble and hard working. Team first mentality. I see a bunch of guys that are down rather than angry or whatever. Either way the overall effect is they almost seem laid back about losing, no urgency. Combine that with the message they are speaking. Which is press speak, We just have to do our jobs, eliminate the mistakes, we have the talent to win, need to win etc etc.

    Coleman got the ire of Reub recently for saying he thinks the secondary unit is the best in the nfl (when it is infact historically bad). That’s just player to press talk. What’s he going to say, we’re bad cut us? I think we are projecting a lot onto a team with no identity. Why does a team have no identity? I always look to leadership…or lack there of.

  35. 35 Ben Hessel said at 12:14 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Peters is a huge ? for next year. Maybe best LT in the league when healthy, but 2 achillies tears is scary to rely on.

    Shady/Brown is gonna be a nasty combo for years if we hold onto them both. Or if he keeps this up we could be looking at getting a good pick for BB in a year or two.

    On the Chip Kelly Bandwagon, I’m not saying I know he’ll be a great NFL coach (it’s debatable for sure), people have great things to say about him, and if any roster fits his speed-based offense it’s us with djax, mac, shady and BB. And Vick (jk on Vick).

  36. 36 austinfan said at 1:38 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    If Peters is cleared to work out already, I’m not too worried.
    Watching Suggs play after an offseason achilles, Peters will have almost 20 months before next season.
    I might draft a project at LT with the idea of Peters eventually moving to RG, but I’m pretty confident that Peters will start at LT in 2013.

  37. 37 Sb2bowl said at 3:36 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I like the idea of drafting a tackle high, and having him take over RT with Peters coming back to LT. Have Herremans move to LG again, and have Mathis shift to RG. Then in a year or two, send the RT to LT, and have Peters go back to the right. Hypothecially that would work, but probably not.

  38. 38 Matthew Westergard said at 12:18 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I just don’t know with this team. My preferred coach to this point has been Chip Kelly, but up until the last few seasons college coaches have been disappointments in the NFL, however he still intrigues me. Mike McCoy I don’t like, Manning runs the offence and the offence under Tebow was never going to be long lasting. I am not big on any of the up and coming Co-ordinators except maybe Fangio, who might be a great hire.
    Billick- has always been someone I have had my eye on, as a former coach.
    Gruden- don’t know.

    My plan would be to restructure Vicks contract, Take a O-Lineman early, take D-lineman (2nd round), build up the D. Plan on using more running with Brown and McCoy, with Vick as a runner and thrower. Chip Kelly might be able to make it work.

  39. 39 Tom33 said at 12:18 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I think there’s talent, but there are definite holes too. The NFL is about matchups, and it seems like the Eagles’ holes are easy to find and exploit. I hope they can build on the talent, fill some holes and bring in a coach to make a quick turnaround (as Harbaugh did in SF with mostly the same team that lost under Singletary). The good news is that there is no juggernaut in the division that has so much more talent than the other teams.

    It will be interesting to see if Lurie goes back to a division of power or puts all his eggs in one big basket.

  40. 40 TommyLawlor said at 12:40 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Absolutely agree there are holes to be filled and spots to be upgraded. Core is good, but needs to be better.

  41. 41 NoDecaf said at 1:20 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Ah ok, scalpel, not dynamite.

  42. 42 TommyLawlor said at 1:53 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Simple, but brilliant summation.

  43. 43 A Roy said at 2:54 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I’m thinkin’ maybe a tactical nuke. There’s a lot wrong with this team. The entire…ENTIRE secondary finds new ways each week to give away touchdowns. Most of the DL got old fast. W’re still operating with only two LBs.

  44. 44 Guest said at 12:20 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I think you’re on to something when talking about looking at what other organizations do, and agree with the copying the Giants, Packers, Steelers, and Ravens (would like to see more sustainability with the Falcons, and agree with the exclusion of the Patriots). Instead of focusing on who will be the next coach, I’d rather hire an asst. GM from one of those organizations and give them the keys, and let them pick the coach.
    I also think the talent here is overrated. Unlike the teams you’ve listed, too often they’re forced to fill holes via free agency to make up their draft failings. This is particularly true on the defensive side of the ball, where their drafting record has been absolutely horrible (one impact player, Cole, in the last 10 drafts). If the Eagles simply replace Reid, and keep the current power structure otherwise in place, they’ve accomplished nothing.

  45. 45 FrenchEagles said at 12:21 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    One team I think we can compare is the Niners. Two years ago, the team was clearly under-performing. We knew their players were good, but they couldn’t play well. Some fans wanted all the players to leave. See what a change of HC from Singletary to Harbaurgh did. Players played up to their talent, on their strengths (see Alex Smith), and the team suddenly became one of the best of the NFL.

    The Niners didn’t go to a Gruden type but a college guy. Agreed he had NFL experience. It can be a direction Lurie could seriously look into.

  46. 46 Cafone said at 12:29 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I like Roseman and I think this past year’s draft still looks like it will be a great one.

    But, if I am Lurie, the Watkins pick would have a lot of weight in my decision making process. I thought it was a horrible pick at the time and it has turned out that way. You can get competent OG starters after the first round. Taking an “older” player to play OG in the first round is just such a high-risk/low-reward proposition that it had to work out perfectly for it to be a successful pick: Watkins needed to become a pro bowl caliber player. He has obviously not become that and so the Eagles wasted a first round pick.

    Again, I like Roseman, so I like to think that was not his choice and it was an Andy Reid decision. But if that is not the case, if Roseman was Watkin’s champion in the draft room, then I would bring in someone new to fill his role. Roseman is not a football guy, so he should be bringing cold analytical logic to the table as his contribution. If he was behind the Watkins pick then it is obvious he is influenced by things other than logic.

  47. 47 TommyLawlor said at 12:41 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I never have figured out who pushed for Watkins.

    I do think Andy pushed for Jai-Jar. Don’t know that for a fact…just a hunch.

  48. 48 austinfan said at 1:36 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I would have to think Mudd, can’t imagine Howie not conferring with the OL coach before drafting OL. Howie seems from a distance to be a consensus guy, he wants to work with his coaches.

    Though the order for scouts NOT to talk to coaches may have seemed weird, it makes sense, you don’t want coaches to influence your scouts’ judgment of college players, you want the coaches to go to the GM, but the scouts to stay “pure” in their evaluations.

  49. 49 Cal Setar said at 12:46 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I think the distance that Lurie has been putting between Reid and Roseman speaks volumes about where the blame for the roster lay. Or at least where he perceives it to lay.

    I’d also put a lot more emphasis on whoever thought it was a “special opportunity” to add a lot of aging veterans after the lockout. That seems to have screwed with the chemistry of the team while simultaneously contributing a butt-load to payroll.

  50. 50 ohitsdom said at 2:49 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    So vulcan.

  51. 51 TheRogerPodacter said at 12:34 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    in regards to judging Roseman, how much say does the coaching staff have in who is picked up in the draft or FA?
    do the coaches approach the GM and say “here is what we are trying to do, get me the best players to fill this scheme”?

    if that is the case, we can’t just judge the GM by how well his players are playing, it should be by how well did they fit this defensive scheme. on paper, i would say that roseman has done a great job at bringing in talent to fit this defensive scheme – babin, jenkins, cox, ryans, kendricks, etc. on paper, aso and drc were good choices as well.

    i have to wonder if it is just the scheme that is making them look worse or if these players were just never the right fit for that scheme…

  52. 52 TommyLawlor said at 12:42 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Lots of good opinions and info.

    Glad to see you guys are able to skip the bitter venting and take the long view to think about the future.

  53. 53 NoDecaf said at 1:25 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I started early based on perceived lack of accountability. Now it’s just your basic dull ache.

  54. 54 Baloophi said at 1:08 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    RE: rose-colored glasses…

    Didn’t you used to sell those on this very site?

  55. 55 TommyLawlor said at 1:56 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Just sunglasses. The rose-colored glasses market was a future idea.

  56. 56 NoDecaf said at 1:17 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Sorry if already asked but do you see the solution being more scalpel, less dynamite or vice versa?

  57. 57 NoDecaf said at 1:23 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Saw your response below.

  58. 58 BobSmith77 said at 1:20 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Disagree about the overall talent level especially on the defensive side on the ball. Secondary is going to get a complete overhaul this offseason (expect at least one new starter at CB and S next year), the DL is overrated (only really one solid young building block there in Cox with several likely veteran departures including Tapp/Babin/Patterson, and even at LB where the only definite starter right now is Kendricks (not sure if Ryan is back).

    The one are that could be dramatically improved next year is the OL when they get a few guys back and if they draft a competent starting RT.

  59. 59 CheesesteakWilly said at 1:21 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    When it comes to looking at the Packers, Steelers, Giants, Ravens and Falcons (and even past Eagles teams) one thing that I think we’ve gotten away from that those teams do is relying on veterans. Andy only willingly played rookies in the last couple of years. This team ‘went young’ recently and that has a lot to do with our chronic undisciplined play. Trent Cole is the only defensive starter that’s been on this team for more than 3 years. After him, our next longest tenured starter is Nate Allen.

    On offense it’s not as bad. Herremans, Celek, Desean and Avant (if you consider him a starter). Everyone else is 4 years or less.

    When it comes to personnel, the staff has grossly undervalued veteran leadership and discipline.

  60. 60 LostInChiTown said at 1:24 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Tommy – a while back, the guys at Birds 24/7 did a good piece on all Reid’s old assistants that went on to greater success – Rivera, Harbaugh, Frazier, Spags, Childress. In hindsight his early staff was stacked and possibly an underrated aspect of his success. What coaching candidates do you think have the NFL and college connections to develop that kind of staff?

  61. 61 TommyLawlor said at 2:01 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Reid’s early staff was phenomenal. JJ especially did a great job with the young coaches around him. Those guys didn’t have great track records at the time, though. It wasn’t an all-star staff.

    I think Reid had a good sense of young coaches back then because he was one and those guys do a ton of networking. Nobody saw Andy as anything special when he was an assistant at GB so he was able to develop solid relationships and find out good info on fellow coaches.

    Once he became a big time HC, things changed for Andy. Any time a young coach met him or was brought to his attention, it was a sales job. Andy was no longer a peer. He was the head honcho who could hire you. That changes the dynamics quite a bit and led to him making some bad hires.

  62. 62 CheesesteakWilly said at 1:27 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Watching Bryce Brown last night I couldn’t help but think what the offense would look like if Chip Kelly were running it. Shady, Bryce, Dion, Desean and Damaris in a Chip Kelly offense… drool

  63. 63 Baloophi said at 1:29 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Do people think Vick will pass his concussion imPACT test, or take off running and fumble it?

  64. 64 A Roy said at 2:33 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    If he passes it, Celek will drop it.

  65. 65 austinfan said at 1:32 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Reason I’d stick with Howie is simple, he’s shown the ability to grow on the job, that should not be underrated, I never saw any evidence that Modrak or Heckert “self-scouted” and tried to learn from their mistakes, Howie’s been very honest about his mistakes, and has never tried to deflect blame, even though Reid has been angling for more say over personnel for years, and the 2010-2011 offseasons have his fingerprints (HC pushing for a last hurrah by drafting for need and signing lots of free agents).

    Howie just had a great draft, Cox, Kendricks, Kelly and Brown are showing starter potential, Curry, Boykin, D Johnson are showing flashes of talent, picking up Ryans for a song. Foles at worst should be a solid backup QB when he grows up. Adding futures like Sims and Menkin. If you’re rebuilding a team, that was a heckuva start. McNutt on the PS, picking up Cunningham, Carrier. The only miss was Washington in the 6th rd.

    Even with the free agent spasm and re-signings for morale, Howie learned from Banner how to limit the dead money exposure, after they purge the veterans (Vick, Bell, Dunlap, Scott, Babin, Cole, Jenkins, Landri, Tapp, Aso, DRC), they’ll have somewhere around $40-50M to play with, assuming that Howie moves this year’s cap surplus into next season.

    The presumption is that they can add a magic GM is not substantiated by experience, Eagles have had four solid drafts in fifteen years, 1999 (Broadhuss), 2002 (Modrak), 2005 (Heckert), 2012 (Howie). Most drafts land one or two starters at best, Howie blew 2010 (not JPP, but later on when he skipped Bowman and Graham), and salvaged a thin 2011 (Marsh, Henery, Lewis, Kelce, Havili) after drafting for need (by whose command?). One talent he’s show is finding players in the later rounds, even in 2010 – Harbor, Cooper and Coleman, and of course Teo is playing just fine in a conventional 4-3 in Tampa Bay. Good drafts require not just adding starters, but building depth on your roster, Coleman would be fine as the #3 safety if Jarrett had turned out to be a real SS.

  66. 66 ohitsdom said at 2:44 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I’m also on the sticking with Howie train. He has certainly improved, so let’s see how he does without Reid.

  67. 67 Skeptic_Eagle said at 3:44 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Seems like you’re crediting every good move to Howie, and assigning every bad one to Reid. You’re also implying Roseman was forced to draft the bad players he drafted. Nifty answer, but I think it’s a little more complex.

    It also strikes me as odd that we’re declaring guys that have flashed in 1 game as “great”, when a lot of folks still can’t admit Watkins has been a bust after more than a season, or were cautioning against making an early judgment on Jarrett until the moment he was cut.

    Howie has made some good moves, but not enough of them. His mistakes have been very costly; not to the bottom line, but to the product on the field. You may not be able to add a “magic GM”, but you can probably add a smart, energetic guy, with a background in pro scouting. You know, what a guy like Jerry Reese, Ozzie Newsome, Kevin Colbert, Trent Baalke, or Ted Thompson might have been like, once. Maybe I’m being narrow-minded in thinking a former salary cap wonk with a law degree may not be the best choice as GM, but it’s hard to look at the top franchises and not see that trend.

    I did like Roseman’s 2012 draft, for the most part, but I’m not sure it indicates enough of an improvement when contrasted against all the missteps in free agency and the failures of 2010 & 2011.

  68. 68 austinfan said at 5:33 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    It’s hard to know how much was Howie and how much was Andy, but AR had pushed for more power over personnel a couple years ago, and that coincides with a “win now” philosophy of drafting for need and signing veteran free agents – which we didn’t see when Banner was in firm control. Andy obviously felt a high degree of urgency starting in 2009, with an aging QB, and too many years of coming up short.

    Howie has admitted drafting for need in the past and said he went BPA in 2012, now that makes me wonder what was really happening behind the scenes. I credit Howie with never suggesting that his mistakes were due to pressure from AR or his coaches, but inquiring minds want to know.

    As far as scouting background,

    “Wolf had just finished final exams at the University of Oklahoma in 1963 when Davis called him with a job offer out of the blue. The editor of “Pro Football Illustrated” (now “Pro Football Weekly”)
    happened to be in Northern California attending a wedding when Davis became the Raiders’ coach and GM, so he went to Oakland to interview Davis about the new jobs. During their conversation, Davis said he needed an assistant scout who was good at remembering names, and the editor recommended Wolf, who had worked at “Pro Football Illustrated” the year before. Wolf jumped at the chance to break into pro football but had never scouted, so he learned by spending hours watching game.”

  69. 69 Skeptic_Eagle said at 6:32 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Well, like you mentioned, we can’t truly know. I look at the past few years and see a seismic shift in philosophy, and attribute that to the promotion of Roseman as GM; you see it as Reid making a last grasp at authoring his destiny in Philly. I don’t think anything will be known, really, until someone writes a book a few years down the road.

    Ron Wolf as the outlier doesn’t disprove the trend. Right now, most of the best franchises have a GM with a scouting background. It’s kinda like a 6th round pick & Tom Brady.

  70. 70 austinfan said at 1:47 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    One point on QBs, while media focuses on Peyton, Brady, Brees, Warner and Rodgers, a lot of mediocre QBs have gotten to the SB and a few have won in the last decade or so. And Brady for example in 2001 and 2003 wasn’t “Brady,” just a solid caretaker throwing short passes to Brown and Patten. Big Ben wasn’t that good his first ring.

    CHI 2006 – Grossman
    SEA 2005 – Hasselback
    CAR 2003 – Delhomme, lost 32-29
    TB 2002 – Brad Johnson, won
    Balt 2000 – Dilfer, won
    ATL 1998 – Chandler
    NE 1996 – Bledsoe
    Pitt 1995 – O’Donnell

    Now they lost more than they won, but often not because they weren’t the better QB, but because they were QB on the less talented team.

    Point is you can’t necessarily land a HOF QB, but you can build a team that a decent veteran can take to the SB with a shot at winning. Teams that focus on the QB instead of team building often spend a decade wandering in the wilderness.

    Build an OL, find a couple RBs, a tough defense, and you can plug in a lot of QBs, with no OL and a mediocre defense, good luck winning with any QB.

  71. 71 Patrick said at 1:51 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    How likely is it that were able to pull a Rams, and get a lower pick and future first rounders, in case we do not like the players in the top of the draft?
    The class is way different, with little high impact players by my quick overlook and of course without a single QB who should be a top 10 pick. Maybe a swap this year and next years first with the Bills who had Buddy Nix say that they were looking for a franchise QB this year?

  72. 72 ohitsdom said at 2:40 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I hope very likely. This seems like the way to go to me, brilliant idea. Why settle on this draft when we can get way more value next year? Maybe Foles shows enough this season to be given a shot next season.

  73. 73 Neil said at 7:31 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I wouldn’t bet on it; at least it’s way too early to be comparing us to the Rams. The RG3 phenomenon comes very rarely. If we trade down, it’s just as likely a move to the teens where we pick up a 2nd rounder or two.

  74. 74 SleepingDuck said at 1:51 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    At this point I’m really leaning towards taking Geno if he’s there when we pick. As someone who is from Southern Cal, I want no part of Barkley. His decision making has been awful this year.Ideally, I want Foles to be the franchise qb, but it seems like he has regressed the last two weeks.

  75. 75 Skeptic_Eagle said at 3:24 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Picking Geno Smith in the top 5 makes me uneasy. He was poised to take that next step, and his decision making has looked a beat and a half slow. I really liked him as a junior, but there are things about his field vision and decision making that would make me a little apprehensive. It would feel like a need pick.

    Agree about Barkley. Not impressed at all. I wouldn’t draft him before the 4th, because I don’t think he’ll ever be much more than a backup.

  76. 76 Eric Carranza said at 1:57 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    just read on the eagles site that desean jackson just went to IR with multiple fractured ribs

  77. 77 Eric Carranza said at 2:01 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    so is this the time to pick up Terrell Owens so we can get some fan in the seats at the Linc? lol

  78. 78 Mac said at 2:22 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Can we pay him to come play QB behind this swiss cheese o-line?

  79. 79 Thorin McGee said at 2:04 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    This season is so done, I’m ready to just let Andy go now so everyone can get to moving on. I don’t see any real benefit to that for the Eagles this season, but it lets Lurie and Reid both start looking at next year. It’s over, we can all see it’s over, what do you gain by waiting now?

    I’m not sure at what point letting him play it out crosses that line to just not moving on, but last night sure felt like it.

  80. 80 Ark87 said at 2:37 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    when you examine it honestly there really aren’t any super-solid reasons to let Andy finish.

    Some say we owe it to Andy to let him finish, redeem his name a bit in a garbage season. He has done good things for Philly over the years. Take it for what it is.

    Another reason is we owe it to ticket holders to put the best product we can on the field. What is on the field is a disgrace, but I don’t think it’s right to to throw an interim in there and pack it in. Not to ticket holders. Would be like throwing games for draft position. Player’s truly check-out. We get a real mess in Philly. Don’t get me wrong, things are a mess but they could be sooo much worse. This thing could be a circus, which Lurie would probably benefit from (no such thing as bad press).

    Not good reasons but there’s no solid reason to eject him either unless things get contentious between him in Lurie. Lurie can and likely has been planning for 2013 sans Reid for some time now.

  81. 81 austinfan said at 2:13 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    One rebuilding thought, WCO was not just built for weak armed QBs, it was built for windy Candlestick park. Northeast teams seem to build around defense, running the ball and short passing games for that reason, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, NE, Giants. Ravens and Giants do go long, over play action, but Flacco has a gun and Eli, well, he has miracle receivers (has any QB gotten away with more prayers over his career?).

    Last few years MM/AR have gotten away from the running game, they have smaller WRs, use screens instead of dump offs (trickery instead of outlet passes), i.e., a finesse Coryell type offense better suited to San Diego. On defense, they’ve gotten away from a physical secondary (Dawk, Sheldon) to finesse guys who can’t tackle.

    You’re gonna coach in Philly, you have to have the right attitude, Eagles fans don’t want to just win the game, we want to win the fight as well. I mean just think about who we consider the consensus greatest Eagle player of all time (well, both of them, was there a tougher QB than the Dutchman, or a tougher player than Concrete Charlie).

    I think these things matter, the psychology of the fans feeds the players, a finesse team simply doesn’t belong in Philly, let ’em play in Dallas and their frontrunner fans. Eagles need to get a hard nosed coach who thinks the ultimate victory is a body bag game, i.e., Vermeil without the burnout, Buddy without the bull, Rhodes without the histrionics. No more Kotite, MM, OC mentality, we’ll use deception and quickness. Just smash mouth, 60 minute football, that makes you feel good even after losses.

  82. 82 Allen3000 said at 2:14 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I know you’re busy, but a couple of quick Q’s:
    1) Any remote chance we keep Vick for a signficant paycut (say, 2-3 at about $5 mill per year)?
    2) What unit are you most disappointed/disgusted with this year? (For me, it’s the secondary)
    3) Any possible explanation for why our D has gotten significantly worse under Bowles??? How much of the issue can be attributed to the following: lack of talent/ poor coaching/ lack of effort? And if it is simply a lack of effort coupled with bad coaching, are you confident these same guys can perform at a higher level next year under a new coach?

  83. 83 Sb2bowl said at 3:33 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    1) I doubt it- Vick will want to start. That probably won’t be here
    2) Us not playing as a team; players not playing for each other and as something bigger than an individual.
    3)I think that Bowles was spending more time with his secondary guys exclusively; now that he has the entire D to work on, they are having memory lapses; its strange, we are only starting one rookie on the backend……. how do they have so many break downs?

  84. 84 ACViking said at 2:21 PM on November 27th, 2012:


    An observation and three short questions.

    To me, the common denominator for the Giants, Packers, Steelers, and Ravens is a STRONG general manager.

    For the G-men, it started with George Young in 1979. He built a very traditional GM-over-the-Coach culture there. Ernie Accorsi and Jerry Reese have stuck to that.

    The Packers turned things around in the early ’90s when Ron Wolf became the GM and took over personnel decisions — where before him, Packers’ coaches made those calls. As I remember it, Holmgren left GB because he wanted to be CEO of the football operations, like Andy Reid is here. The Packers have continued that arrangement with Ted Thompson as GM (Wolf’s successor).

    The Steelers since the hiring of Chuck Noll in 1970 — save for a short time when Cowher pushed GM Donahue out the door — have kept the GM and Coach roles very separate.

    And the Ravens, like the others (as well as ATL, NO, TB), have a VERY STRONG general manager in Ozzie Newsome.

    In the late ’90s and early ’00s, super-agent Bob LaMonte wanted his head coaching clients to have absolute power over football operations. No matter what Jerry Jones says, Jimmy Johnson ran the WHOLE show in Dallas — like Walsh in SF and Lombardi in GB.

    Ultimately, that approach has proven flawed. At least everywhere but New England.


    1. What’s happened to this defense?

    Scheme/calls aside, there seems to be no chemistry out there — and hasn’t been since SMcD left. The guys collectively seem so listless.

    I get the offense’s problems (injuries, primarily). But I don’t understand HOW this defense, with these players, could have become so bad.


    2. Brandon Graham . . . should we hold out hope that he’ll reach the promise of the 13th overall pick? Or is he just a half-a-step short of being an impact player? He seems okay against the run, especially chasing. But the pass rush . . . I leave it to you.

  85. 85 Kristopher Cebula said at 2:45 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    do we trust howie roseman with that much responsibility?

  86. 86 Mac said at 3:20 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Howie Roseman conducts himself in a likeable and very professional manner. I get the impression that he works tirelessly trying to tweak the team as much as he can and find diamonds in the rough. I am on board with a system whereby he has equal footing with the coach with Lurie leaving it up to himself to be the deciding factor when there are disagreements between the two.

  87. 87 RIP Worms said at 4:51 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    “And the Ravens, like the others have a great — and powerful — general manager in Ozzie Newsome.” I see what you did there. Nice and subtle.

  88. 88 Mac said at 2:54 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Best news of the day… AR puts Peters on season ending IR. Get healthy big man!

  89. 89 Kevin_aka_RC said at 2:54 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    The Eagles just released Jason Babin. #woah

  90. 90 Eric Carranza said at 3:07 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    at least this means more snaps for vinny curry

  91. 91 NoDecaf said at 2:55 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Would have liked at least one journalist to ask about coaches/players emotional investment. I see hanged heads, but no anger. Maybe there is something to that?

  92. 92 Iskar36 said at 3:08 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Wow. I don’t fully understand the Babin release. I think he has played poorly this season, and certainly think he deserves losing playing time to Graham/Curry, but at this point in the season, I think it would have made more sense to release Babin at the end of the season. Even more so, I think the new coach, whoever that ends up being should have been the one to make that decision, not AR at this point.

  93. 93 goeagles55 said at 3:54 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I imagine Roseman had to have been given final say on this. Reid couldn’t cut a starter while waiting to be fired.

  94. 94 ACViking said at 3:11 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Re: Babin Fired

    Was JB not a good locker-room influence?

    Is this another Reid-fires-DT Bill Johnson-after-laughing-following-loss situation?

    Besides Vince Curry showing enough to earn more PT (as well as B-Graham) . . . something must have triggered AR’s lesser angel.

  95. 95 Mac said at 3:14 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I obviously don’t know the guy… but the way he addresses the media, and handles himself on twitter. I’d guess the knocks on him are being weak mentally and possibly emotionally, and I get the impression that his off the field life is more important and may have diminished his on the field life this year.

  96. 96 ACViking said at 3:12 PM on November 27th, 2012:



    What the hell’s goin’ on out there?

  97. 97 Skeptic_Eagle said at 3:18 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I think Roseman definitely needs to be stripped of some of his duties. You’re leaving out the fact that the first 4 picks of last year’s draft aren’t starting, and one of them isn’t even in the league! Since Roseman has taken the mantle, there has been a sea change in how they’ve dealt with free agency, and it has not helped the team. The idea of Lurie as a “tiebreaker” on football decisions makes me queasy; I think Lurie knows he’s out of his depth, and would not put the franchise in that position. Move Roseman into his areas of expertise, cap massage, contract negotiation, and taking black and white glamour shots. Get a GM with an actual scouting background, not a law degree. I don’t know how you handle the titles, let Lurie figure that out. Look at the Ravens, Packers, 49ers, Steelers, Giants–all their GMs were scouts. Does it follow that they’d be better at filling out their team with talent? I think so. Thompson is legendary for going out and personally scouting players, scouring the four corners of the earth for NFL talent.

    In my view, the Eagles skill players are not among the best in the league. No way. Desean Jackson & McCoy are both stars, but that’s it. Celek, Avant, Vick, Maclin, they are just guys at this point. They might make some plays, but they don’t play at a high level consistently, and haven’t for awhile. It’s hard for me to distinguish this skill position player group as being better than either the Cowboys or Redskins, at the bottom of the division, mostly because of how important the QB factors in. Maybe guys like Brown & Havili could be very good some day, but they aren’t there now.

    I do appreciate the role you play as eternal optimist, and I think it’s a very valuable one for a fanbase like the Eagles, I just can’t get on the bus here. This team might have name recognition, but they don’t have enough talent. All the fire & brimstone speeches and player-benchings in the world are not going to change that.

  98. 98 47_Ronin said at 3:44 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I’m in 100% agreement. Reid stated he has final say on football ops, but Roseman is most likely responsible generating the list of potential draftees and FAs. 2010 was a bad class, 2011 is looking bad, 2012 appears to possibly have some players that can contribute.

  99. 99 Alex Grimaldi said at 3:25 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Tommy, I’d be interested in a Mychal Kendricks/Bobby Wagner/Lavonte David breakdown. I liked all three of those guys going into the draft and I was glad we got one of them. Might be more of an offseason topic, but stuff like that’s always fun to examine.

  100. 100 Iskar36 said at 3:41 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    “The Eagles skill players (Vick, Shady, Bryce, Havili, Celek, DJax, Mac,
    Avant, Cooper) are up there with the best in the NFL as an overall

    I think this is very much debatable.

    Shady and DJax are clear talents, although I think DJax is not an elite WR (probably top 10, but not top 5).

    Maclin is more “potential” than anything. Lets put it this way, as of right now, would it make a lot of sense to extend him long term? I don’t really think so.

    Avant is a guy that most of us agree should be a #4 WR, not a #3.

    Cooper is a good STer and seems to do a decent job as a fill in (he is fine in his role as the #4/#5 guy) but is a guy who will likely regularly be in a TC battle for a roster spot.

    I think most of us like Celek (I’m ignoring his bad season this year), but he certainly isn’t a top tier TE.

    Bryce Brown had a great game last night yardage-wise, but has serious fumble concerns. Also, he is a rookie who is largely unknown.

    Havili seems to do a decent job as the FB. Nothing special, but not great either.

    Finally, Vick is a guy who has had one very good season and has been a disappointment otherwise. In addition, most of us think he deserves being cut by the end of the season.

    To me, that certainly doesn’t read like one of the best sets of skill players in the league. I don’t think we are awful in terms of skill players, but among the best? I think that overrates our talent.

  101. 101 BobSmith77 said at 3:51 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Re: Babin being released

    Good. Tired of his ‘me first’ antics and schtick and I guess the coaching staff/FO did too. Gave up in that Seahawks game last year in the 2nd half and then had the gaul to get angsty with reporters after that game when asked about his shoddy effort.

    This was actually an easy call too since it allows Curry/Graham now to get more PT. No sense wasting snaps on Babin.

    This is the most unlikeable Eagles’ team in a long, long time too. I would love to Coleman get DFA too. Running around last night in the 4th quarter on the last drive jawing and trying to start crap when the Panthers had clinched the game.

  102. 102 Neil said at 9:59 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    About the power structure, you must make the hierarchy clear. Decide who is the best to lead and give him the top job.

  103. 103 ceteris_paribus1776 said at 10:47 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Let’s look at 2 things. First the “talent”

    Vick, Shady, Bryce, Havili, Celek, DJax, Mac, Avant, Cooper.

    Vick: middle of the road QB at best. Had about 8 good games in 2010. After the tape was in Vick was out.

    Shady: Excellent player

    Bryce: One good game, but may have potential

    Havili: marginal FB

    Celek: Decent TE who works hard, but isn’t exceptionally fast, athletic, or sure handed

    DJax: Speed demon, but not complete WR. Irrelevant in the red-zone. A great supplementary WR, but can’t build a passing game around him unless you have a great Oline

    Mac: Marginal #2. Every team in the league has this guy on their roster, and most of them have one who’s more productive

    Avant: Would be a great #4, but on this loaded roster he’s the slot WR???

    Cooper: 3 years in the league and is a situational WR.

    That’s not an exceptionally talented roster. That’s an avg roster with a plethora of role players. Only Shady is a truly dynamic guy that creates real problems.

    The second thing to look at is Howie. How have his money picks lived up?


    Graham – a situational player at this point. Who thinks he’s every going to be a guy that will see double teams??? They moved up, what, 10 spots to get him?

    Allen – Part of a safety duo that routinely blows coverages, can’t make plays on the ball, can’t tackle. He’d only start for the worst secondaries in the league

    Te’o – His “breakout” year consists of 17 tackles and 2 sacks. We just cut a guy who no one was happy with that was more productive.


    Watkins – can’t get on the field over a rookie 6th rounder, who struggled at RG, so they signed a guy off the street as the 3rd RG on the roster.

    Jarrett – Do we even need an explanation???

    Marsh – Has the guy ever made a play? He’s played at 15 snaps for a team that has been terrible in the secondary for 2 years


    Cox – One truly talented player that looks worth the pick

    Kendricks – Looks like a decent player, but doesn’t make an impact. Will probably be a starter for a while, but seems to lack that true play-making ability that other contemporaries like David and Wagner are already showing. He’s a 3-down backer with 39 solo stops, 1 sack, and 5 pds in 12 games. Pretty pedestrian output for a guy so many of us are REALLY excited about.

    Foles – Hardly looks like a great talent after 2.5 games. Still early, but certainly not a pick that has people excited at this point.

    Howie, in 3 years and 9 picks in the first 3 rounds has 1 player who truly looks like a real talent, 1 other player who will probably be around for a while, and the rest are meh, or not on the roster. I will give him credit for a Kelce and Brown as late round guys with upside, but you need to hit on your big investments to build the core of your team. Those early round guys are players you are drafting to fill need, weakness, or are supposed to be extremely talented and you can’t pass one. He has routinely missed on those guys.

    in the mean-time he has brought in a number of veteran players that have not panned out. Nnamdi is a colossal failure, DRC is a decent CB, but teams still pick on him without caution, Babin is a one-trick pony who seems a step-slower, Jenkins is a good rotational guy, and Ryans is a good player. Out of all that money bringing in leadership and veteran presence, the team is as lost as ever on only has a rotational player in Jenkins, good player in Ryans, and DRC to show for it?

    I don’t see how anyone can look at the path of this team over the past 3 years and think that Howie has done a good job at anything other than making deals. Being a GM is more than getting a deal done. It’s getting the right deal done. You need a football sense to achieve that, not a business/legal sense.

  104. 104 Neil said at 11:29 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I think you need to see what many of these players do with different coaching. Like Tommy keeps saying, when everybody’s slumping, something’s fishy. Like Maclin, you and I both know his limitations are in his head rather than his body.

  105. 105 ceteris_paribus1776 said at 11:59 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwin always point out that poor performance is mostly attributable to players, not coaching. Fans love to point to coaching because it’s the easiest coping mechanism; just coach right and everything is fine. It’s a more difficult pill to swallow that the team itself just isn’t that good.

    The difference coaching would make would probably be a game or two hear and there. This is an avg team that is playing poorly, not a great team that is playing poorly. That’s the difference I think most people haven’t come to grasp. If the Oline were together this could be a .500 team hoping to get hot and not the dreadful viewing displeasure we have seen the past two months, but it still wouldn’t be a contender.

  106. 106 Neil said at 12:26 AM on November 28th, 2012:

    You might be right, but I want to see the players with another coach before I decide to agree..

  107. 107 quest4fire said at 11:11 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Am reading some of the comments and glad to see that some of the fans “get it” that you need good depth to replace injuries and you need good drafts and FA acquisitions 2010 and 2011 were killers and have set us back a couple years which we are now realizing, 2012 is looking like a great draft. Who gets the credit/blame? Reid has final say on personnel matters, so thats where it starts. A fiery coach like Jimmy Johnson could have earned a couple more wins but nothing major with limited talent. An innovative coach like Chip Kelly could probably tweak out a couple more wins with limited talent but this is the NFL and they eventually figure out how to stop “innovation.” Reid has been successful because players TRUST Reid. He has helped players that didnt work out, latch on with other teams. He has a reputation of someone that if you play hard for him, he will make sure you have a decent career in the NFL. If you are cut and if Reid puts in a good word for you, you’ll be okay. If you are in his doghouse, your career is over. Players play HARD for Reid. Now they do play stupid sometimes but they always play hard. Ried is very highly respected by all teams in the NFL. Look at the A -listers who showed up for his son’s funeral.Bill Belicheck, et al. What does that tell you??!! Be careful what you wish for. Stop listening to the media, they cant stand Andy because his Press Conferences are worthless, he always takes the blame for his players and never throws them under the bus. If Andy is willing to give up his powers and be a plain ol Head Coach, it will always be sunny in Philly!

  108. 108 Eagles_Fan_in_San_Fran said at 12:06 AM on November 28th, 2012:

    Tommy, I wholeheartedly agree with you on two key things:
    1) “I think this team has a good core.” I do, too. I think we can be like the Niners in terms of a quick turnaround if we just get the right coach in here – someone who’ll fit scheme to the players, not stubbornly try to fit the players to his scheme.
    2) “Do not look at the Patriots…copying them is fool’s gold.” Nice word play on the “gold standard” line there, by the way. Lurie needs to get off his Napoleon complex that he wants to be the next Robert Kraft by trying to copy their exact blueprint – as you said, Brady and Belacheat are freaks.

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