Posted: November 27th, 2012 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 118 Comments »

2012 is unofficially over.  So, then, is the Andy Reid era.

He said something in the postgame PC that really bugged me.  In regard to Bryce Brown, Reid commented that he felt bad about Brown’s fumbles and how they ruined his good night.  I can’t remember the exact phrase and no one has it up yet, but it was words to that effect.  This tells us all we need to know.

An NFL coach should feel anger that his young player fumbled and possibly cost him a game.  I don’t expect Andy to shred Brown in front of the media, but he’s got to send the message that fumbles won’t be tolerated.  Brown has to know that fumbles will cost him touches.  Give the ball to Dion Lewis.  Or Stanley Havili.  We’d all rather have Brown toting the rock, but not if he can’t hold onto the ball.  Turnovers cannot be tolerated.

It may seem like I’m making a mountain out of a mole hill, but little things like this give us a glimpse into why this team is so undisciplined.  Play after play, the DEs rushed up the field and let Cam Newton get to the edge.  This should have happened once.  Just once.  The coverage mistakes? I don’t know who is to blame, but I’d tell Nnamdi, DRC, and Kurt Coleman that I can put out Curtis Marsh, Brandon Hughes, and David Sims if we’re going to see guys running free like that.

Mistakes must be punished.  There must be accountability.

That isn’t happening right now.

Reid will be fired in January.  Could be sooner if the team has a couple more ugly losses.  There is no real benefit to making the move now, but Jeff Lurie is trying to read the fans right now.  He doesn’t want complete apathy to set in.  I don’t think tonight’s loss was embarrassing in any way.  A ton of young guys played and did some things pretty well.  Others…not so much.  Last week the Eagles weren’t competitive.  This week the game was back and forth up to the end.  Huge difference despite disappointing result.

From this point on, feel free to go full on with 2013 talk/questions.

Per Jimmy Bama, Eagles are slated for the #5 pick right now.  There is no player I’m in love with.  And this isn’t a great top set of players from what I’ve seen right now.  Too bad this isn’t for the 2014 draft, when studs will be available.  Then again, I might yet find a player or two to obsess on.

The 2012 Eagles…a team that will live in infamy.



118 Comments on “D-O-N-E…Done”

  1. 1 SleepingDuck said at 12:59 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I’m actually feeling sorry Reid now.. I want him fired now to put him out of his misery here..

    I don’t understand whats with all the love for Jon Gruden. When’s the last time a coach who has won the Super Bowl won again with a different team?

  2. 2 Tom33 said at 6:04 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    that would be never

  3. 3 Ark87 said at 8:21 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    it hasn’t happened, but the sample size of superbowl winning coaches is very small. Many of them didn’t go on to other teams. I wouldn’t rule it out. Parcells and Holmgren returned to the superbowl with different teams.

    What people like about Gruden is 2 things. He took over a good roster, threw on the Chucky face and pushed them to the Superbowl. Best part is our roster should match his philosophies pretty well (he’s a west-coast offensive coach).

    I’m not quite on board. Maybe if he had a newer OC on his staff for innovation. The game changes and leaves these guys behind. Coaches must both motivate and innovate to significantly up their odds of winning a superbowl.

  4. 4 Brett Smith said at 1:31 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    First. I hate Chucky.

    Second. You are right in saying he might be able to Chucky face some results out of the team if we can get a DC the offense is capable.

    Third. And this is the one that scares me. He doesn’t want personnel control. That means he would be willing to take a job as just a head coach. Meaning Roseman (wonder boy) gets to keep his power…

    I don’t like what I just said because I am not sure I can handle Chucky but it is quite possible.

    I can’t stand Sean Peyton and his lies. Hated him everywhere he has been.

  5. 5 Ark87 said at 2:09 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    that’s fair

  6. 6 BlindChow said at 9:42 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    “When’s the last time a coach who has won the Super Bowl won again with a different team?”

    Of all the reasons not to like a coach, “because he’s been won a Super Bowl before” has to be one of the stupidest. Anything that’s ever happened has at some point never been done before. I’m sure you would have been against the Rams signing Kurt Warner, because at that point, an undrafted
    QB had never won a Super Bowl.

    There may be plenty of reasons not to hire Jon Gruden as your coach, but his having won a Super Bowl is hardly one of them.

  7. 7 47_Ronin said at 1:04 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I’m willing to cut Bryce Brown some slack on the fumbles, this game was the most he has played and his first start since high school. Rookie RBs fumble, e.g., All-Day Peterson.

  8. 8 TommyLawlor said at 1:08 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    He also fumbled vs BAL and ATL. Didn’t lose the one vs Falcons. If this was the first time, I’d feel differently.

  9. 9 47_Ronin said at 1:26 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    TL, I see your point and this is something that BB H-A-S to work on. I just think BB is a special case b/c of the length of time that he has been out of football (I also think Reid really likes Brown and his turn around getting this second chance). We are all frustrated fans, this season is almost surreal, the team is completely opposite of Reid’s prior teams that would pull things together in Nov-Dec.

  10. 10 Anders said at 5:07 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    That was my first thought that Brown simply isnt used to NFL defenders stripping the ball

  11. 11 laeagle said at 10:50 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    My wife thinks it’s mean that they’re allowed to strip the ball.

  12. 12 BlindChow said at 10:02 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    The Baltimore fumble was a botched handoff, though, right?

  13. 13 BobSmith77 said at 1:05 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Reuben Frank – “First time in franchise history that the Eagles have allowed 28 or more points in 5 consecutive games.”

  14. 14 BobSmith77 said at 1:09 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Most depressing thing tonight (besides the obvious) was how Foles looked again. He had a bad game making consistently poor decisions after the opening drive locking on to receivers and forcing throws. He was really fortunate he didn’t have at least one INT tonight.

    If Vick is cleared to play next week or the following week, I think Reid starts him again. Foles has showed very little over the past 2 1/2 weeks.

  15. 15 BobSmith77 said at 1:14 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Still rather see Foles start the rest of the year though to get a decent sense on what the Eagles have with him. 7 1/2 games should be enough time for them to judge whether they think he should even be considered as a possible starting QB option next year.

  16. 16 Sb2bowl said at 8:02 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I agree– Foles looked good when things went as expected (by that I mean, designed reads/calls to players where the ball should go to).

    When the pocket broke down and he had to improvise, not so much. One thing he has to work on is not locking onto his receiver- this is common for rookies, and hopefully Foles will get better as he progresses.

  17. 17 P_P_K said at 9:35 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I also agree with BS77. The fact that we suck makes this an ideal situation to evaluate Foles. Things would be different If we were in contention and had a possible future with Vick. Since neither of these is a factor this year, put Nick on the field and find out what he brings to the table.

  18. 18 Tom33 said at 9:45 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Gotta be honest – as much as Foles has not played well in his 2 starts, I still think the most depressing thing is the Defense. At least on offense you have the fact that 80% of the O-Line is out, McCoy is out, DJax got hurt, etc. There are no excuses for how bad this defense has been since the bye week. At first you could say Ryan and Brees are elite QB’s, but it just gets worse. It looks like a passing drill when guys are open and nobody is within 20 yards of them. Curry played hard last night, and Trent seemed to come out of retirement for a game, but otherwise nobody showed up. It’s awful.

  19. 19 holeplug said at 10:16 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    It is amazing just how terrible Todd Bowles turned out to be

  20. 20 Ark87 said at 11:03 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Or is he a hero? Our only starters left on offense are Mathis, Maclin, Celek, and Havili (from a depth chart perspective) and the O is still more functional than it was during the 3-1 start. If Juan was here to maintain a decent (albeit non-spectacular) defense, we might be sitting at 8-8 at the end of the season, out of the playoffs, coaching changes imminent and lousy draft position. Or worse, he may have propped Reid up enough to save his job! The horror!

  21. 21 BlindChow said at 10:20 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Were they in soft zone coverage for most of the night? What happened to “Now that Asante is gone, it’ll be press-man coverage!” Or did they just suck man-to-man as well?

    On the bright side, they were excellent against the run (except, of course, for Cam Newton). Every other team that had no run game (Steelers, Lions) looked great against the Eagles.

  22. 22 Skeptic_Eagle said at 10:32 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Trent was better but still couldn’t close the deal. And when it came to the read-option, he was violently illiterate; just tackled the RB every single time.

  23. 23 Sb2bowl said at 12:11 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    that could just be what they taught the dline to do

  24. 24 Cal Setar said at 1:10 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    So, I had a late flight and didn’t get a chance to watch the game. But from what I’ve read so far, I’m guessing that’s not a bad thing.

    On a completely related note…Thoughts on Matt Elam, the safety out of Florida, somewhere around the early 2nd as a Kurt Coleman replacement? I know we’re still a ways away from the draft but he’s a guy that jumps out at you on tape/highlights. Not a big guy, but physical, and I’m starting to prefer him to Eric Reid.

  25. 25 Jeppe Elmelund van Ee said at 1:20 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Matt Elam is the one safety I’ve had my eye on as well. We cannot afford to miss on another safety in the draft…

    Isn’t Eric Reid more of a FS type? I still have hopes that Allen can be a decent to good safety if the circumstances are right. Coleman should be a good ST/back-up.

  26. 26 TommyLawlor said at 1:40 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Eric Reid is SS. Highly erratic in coverage.

  27. 27 SleepingDuck said at 3:12 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Do you know if Honeybadger is going to declare?

  28. 28 Anthony Hart said at 9:39 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    He got arrested again, he may not be around to declare

  29. 29 BlindChow said at 10:13 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I think simple possession of marijuana in Louisiana is a misdimeanor. He clearly won’t play for LSU again, but he could be a stellar value as a late round pick.

    On the other hand, you have to question the intelligence of someone who consents to have his apartment searched when he and his friends have that much marijuana on them. He could be the next Tanard Jackson.

  30. 30 TommyLawlor said at 9:39 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    No idea what’s up with him.

  31. 31 TommyLawlor said at 1:40 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Elam has impressed me. Need to study his tape to offer details.

  32. 32 Erik Haney said at 1:14 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    tommy what kind of help do we really need in the first round we have so many areas of need

  33. 33 47_Ronin said at 1:32 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I had the same question for TL, IMO with no QB really separating himself (and I really don’t like M. Barkley–poor decision making) I see OT as priority #1

  34. 34 TommyLawlor said at 1:39 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Best player. We need an impact guy in a few areas.

  35. 35 Sb2bowl said at 8:01 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Would you prefer impact on D or on O? It seems like we have more impact guys (potentially) on Offense as compared to our Swiss cheese defense…..

  36. 36 Jeppe Elmelund van Ee said at 1:18 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Tommy, I have two questions from the previous post, that I would love your opinion on…

    Question 1:
    What is your initial opinion to the top of the draft compared to the previous couple of years?

    I’m no expert, but I don’t see any elite/special prospects in this years draft. I see it as very similar to the draft in 2009 where, aside from Stafford, there were no
    sure fire picks in the top 10. The stars of that draft came later, and weren’t
    thought of as elite prospects at the time.

    As I see it, we picked the wrong year to suck. My hope is to go get a future franchise LT this year (Joeckel or Matthews) and then after sucking another year, we pick our franchise QB in 2014 (maybe A.J. McCarron or Johnny Football).

    Anyway, I find it hard to think that we’ll be a contender again anytime soon.

    Question 2:
    If we are in rebuilding mode the next few years, do you think it would be wise to take some mid to late round chances on injured players in the draft? I like OT Chris Faulk and with his ACL injury he could be available late. Also Tank Carradine and Michael Mauti comes to mind as a players, whose stock must fall because of injury.

    And if we are not going to be a contender anyway, I think it could be wise to
    pick up some talented yet injured players up, and stash them a year on IR.

  37. 37 TommyLawlor said at 1:39 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Top of draft doesn’t look great. Might change my opinion, but not in love with anyone now.

    I don’t think the team has to rebuild. I would not go for injured players unless the value was too good and the risk/reward worth it.

  38. 38 Baloophi said at 1:29 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Great point about discipline, Tommy.

    This version of Reid seems worlds different than the one who cut Hegamin after making him push a sled all day. It is sad, but he’s allowed a culture of tolerance to infect the locker room. Even when players say the right things, they know there aren’t repercussions for making mistakes.

    The “public Reid” who takes the blame and doesn’t sell out his players may no longer be any different than the “private Reid.”

    Oh well… sounds like San Diego’s problem now!

  39. 39 TommyLawlor said at 1:37 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Love Big Red, but all coaches are hired to be fired.

  40. 40 Brad King said at 1:29 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I really would love to see us draft Joeckel the LT from A&M. Plug him in at LT, move Peters (who may have lost some athleticism with the double rupture of the Achilles) to RT and kick Todd back into a Guard position. Then maybe take a big TE like Ertz from Stanford in the 2nd round and hopefully hire Chip Kelly. I want a ball control offense, it would take some pressure of the defense, not that they need that, they’re pretty terrible too. Either way I think it’s pretty clear we need to build around McCoy and Brown. I wouldn’t mind taking a Safety in the 2nd round again if Elam, Reed, or McDonald fall out of the 1st. Nate Allen deserves another year, but Kurt Coleman should not be an NFL starting safety

  41. 41 Skeptic_Eagle said at 12:20 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I have a feeling you’ll be substituting “Nate Allen ” for the sentence you wrote about Kurt Coleman. Now that folks are starting to come around on Coleman, I’m curious, besides draft position, and better measurables, what has Nate Allen shown anyone to make them think he’s got a brighter future than Kurt Coleman?

  42. 42 Ben Hert said at 1:39 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Allen doesn’t look overmatched, he looks lost. You can fix lost with good coaching, but you can’t fix overmatched. Plus, Allen has shown that he has the ability to play well on numerous occasions, he just is wildly inconsistent.

  43. 43 Brad King said at 2:39 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    A lot of what Ben said. Also, Nate Allen doesn’t try to pick fights with everyone after he’s been getting his rear handed to him all game. Besides, we have too many needs to spend multiple high draft picks on safety, but you could very well be right, he’s been quite disappointing

  44. 44 D3FB said at 1:35 AM on November 27th, 2012:


    Thoughts on Vaccaro?

  45. 45 TommyLawlor said at 1:41 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Very good player. Has had some tackling lapses this year that bug me, but very talented and has excellent size.

  46. 46 Kristopher Cebula said at 9:22 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    tackling lapses? he should fit right in here

  47. 47 Baloophi said at 1:38 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    It’s time to share your 2012 Eagles-inspired haikus! I’ll start…

    Serve up a scapegoat
    McDermott, Castillo, Bowles?
    None of the above

  48. 48 Baloophi said at 1:40 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    West Coast Smash-mouth Spread
    Whichever brings us more wins
    Don’t blow it, Lurie

  49. 49 DarthBanner said at 9:31 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Red zone woes the same,
    offense can’t score, defense blows
    Reid finally toast.

  50. 50 aub32 said at 11:28 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Can’t get any worse
    We just lost to the panthers
    I stand corrected

  51. 51 Arby1 said at 3:04 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Here’s a dark one:
    We knew things were bleak
    When Garrett was a goner,
    Andy was alright?

  52. 52 Jason_E said at 1:54 AM on November 27th, 2012:


    You were true to yourself and held out hope until the bitter end. I’m impressed. I wish you would have been right. Oh well. Change is exciting. Better years to come.

  53. 53 TommyLawlor said at 2:08 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Some guys had a race to be the first to say “it’s over”. I wanted to wait until it truly was. Sadly, that time is here.

  54. 54 Baloophi said at 2:24 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I believe Morton won that race… sometime in June I think.

  55. 55 ChaosOnion said at 8:53 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I think Morton won that race in 2005…

  56. 56 Kristopher Cebula said at 9:22 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    beat me to it

  57. 57 RIP Worms said at 9:55 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    and then changed his handle to shah8

  58. 58 PK_NZ said at 2:26 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    We don’t think Barkley or Smith would be franchise QB’s?

    As we all know, if you don’t have an elite QB then you’re not going to be successful, then why not just have a go at drafting one. We’ve got Peters, so we don’t need a star LT and we’ve got good enough DL, who else would we pick in the top 10?

  59. 59 Baloophi said at 3:07 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    The early consensus is that Smith and Barkley (great accounting firm name, by the way) are not franchise-level QB’s. Barkley would’ve been thought of one last year at this time but has had an up and down season and is now injured. Also, compared to the QB-rich draft last year, neither of these guys looks to be on the same level… in a sense, you’d be getting another Foles-esque QB but would have to spend a top pick. (I’ll leave it to Tommy to compare Geno Smith and Matt Barkley to last year’s QB crop but I’m guessing they’re at least below Tannehill/Wilson).

    That’s one reason we’d look at another position at the top of the draft… like OT. Yes, we do have Peters… who is coming off an injury. But we also have a curiously inconsistent RT (Herremans) who – if moved back to left guard – would allow Evan Mathis to shift to right guard, which would fix another hole (Watkins is not the answer). Ergo, drafting a blue chip tackle would help the team now, and in the future (when he could shift over and take Peters’ spot). If you’re rebuilding (which we will be in one form or another depending on the new coach), you generally start with your QB and/or OL. If you get the QB first, you risk getting him injured if you have a porous O-line (SEE Bradford, Sam)… and we certainly have a porous OL. So not only is there a lack of a clear QB stud, even if there were, he’d get killed next year because of the OL.

    In terms of DL (traditionally taken in the top 5 of the draft where we’re likely to be at this point), yes, we have Cox, but that’s a position you can never have too many weapons… plus, we don’t really know what we’ve got at DE because of Washburn’s scheme. Graham and Curry look like they could be legit, but Cole/Babin/Tapp are in decline, and Hunt is a question mark. When you pick in the top 5 you could wind up with Ndamukong Suh or DeMarcus Ware… which you could always find room for on your line.

    All of that said (and to your point about needing a franchise QB), we could trade down and try to accumulate a 2014 first rounder, which we could combine with our own 2014 first to move up (if we even need to, ha!) and grab a “better” QB prospect. Moving down would also likely add an extra 2nd rounder which we will need since there are so many holes to fill. This is why whiffing on Danny Watkins, Jaiquawn Jarrett and (likely) Curtis Marsh will cast a shadow over the next couple of drafts… despite our good fortune with later round picks the last two years.

    Alternatively, we could also devote resources to trade for a young back-up QB that the new coach cottons to… we could miss and get A.J. Feeley, or we could score Matt Schaub… I’ll leave it to Tommy and others here to furnish a list of potential targets, but there are guys out there, and when you’ve got an uninspiring QB crop like this year, you have to start looking at those sorts of options.

    Welcome to the world of the Kansas City Chiefs, everyone…

  60. 60 miked718 said at 8:49 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Do the Chiefs have blogs like this where they dissect the team’s moves and try to plan out a brighter future or do they just drink more breakfast beer and say “F it all”!

  61. 61 ian_no_2 said at 9:17 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Very good post. When you have a high pick you want to grab the best player available, especially when you have what’s considered a weak draft. A lot of LTs and DTs bust, so they have to make sure Luke Joeckel is legit if they go that way. If there’s a new coach they could even consider a LB (Te’o) and we can watch a tight end get covered.

    Barkley may be a bargain if he falls to the late 1st round.

    Russell Wilson in the late 2nd is starting to look good… Andy agreed but didn’t see him going then and would have picked him over Foles. I of course was pushing him as better than Tannehill and Foles.

    Front Office: The scouting improved and the team played the board in 2012. 2011 was a horrible draft when the team picked its players in advance, locking in on players they knew would be available because they were reaches and seemed to be drawn Watkins’ and Jarrett’s PR appeal.

  62. 62 Skeptic_Eagle said at 11:44 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Hmmm…I think it’s a bit early to judge the 2012 draft as a success in terms of strategy producing very good players, considering one of our 2nd round picks just saw his first snap as a pro last night. I think Cox is going to be a very good player. I give kudos to the Front Office for that; but that is still dependent on how he develops from here. The rest haven’t even made their case yet.

    Don’t forget how bad 2010 was. Despite some promising signs, Brandon Graham has still done relatively little as a pro. We’re discussing Allen’s latest miscue in this space, and I think a solid case could me made to replace him on the merits of his play; whether or not that happens is probably dependent on who they can replace him with. Te’o Nesheim could not crack the roster, though he has stepped in as an injury replacement for Adrian Clayborn of the Buccaneers. Lindley is not even on an NFL roster.

    FWIW, (and these words may come back to haunt me) I don’t think Barkley will ever be a franchise QB, so I would probably not draft him before the 4th. He honestly reminds me of Jimmy Clausen, except he’s asked to do even less by USC than Clausen did at ND.

  63. 63 ian_no_2 said at 12:15 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    agreed… 2010 was horrible. The 2012 class has taken its lumps out there but looks better than average, especially Bryce Brown.

  64. 64 Skeptic_Eagle said at 12:30 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    I’ll agree that Bryce Brown seems like a steal where we picked him. If we can get a coach that can generate an offense like Carolina had when they actually ran the ball with Williams/Stewart as running backs, as opposed to Cam Newton’s handmaidens, Shady & Brown might be a fun “wiggle and smash” offense to watch, and might be able to minimize the effect of not having a QB in ’13.

  65. 65 47_Ronin said at 11:18 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Curry looked good (5 tackles) in his debut, but Graham doesn’t impressions. Graham is not the second coming of Dwight Freeney (the overused comparison when he was drafted). Unfortunately, I don’t Graham will live up to his draft pick.

  66. 66 Anders said at 5:12 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I hate that Brown fumble twice, but for a big guy, he got some wheels and a backfield of Brown and McCoy makes me very dreamy if we get a coach who will utilize them

  67. 67 Sb2bowl said at 7:58 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    “if we get a coach who will utilize them”…….. my thoughts exactly. I don’t need a smash mouth, running football team- but I would like an offense that is less predictable and predicated on the same 10 pass plays/formations. It has grown stale.

    People will kill me for this, but I’d be alright with Reid coming back for his final year of the contract— as long as we get a new OC with a new system.

  68. 68 bdbd20 said at 8:01 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I think that’s part of the problem, Reid. I’m not sure he can be trusted to let the OC run a balanced offense.

  69. 69 Anders said at 8:31 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    2003, Brad Childress.

    Problem right now is that MM and AR shares the exact same offensive philosophy, where Childress is more of a running WCO coach.

    I wouldnt let AR come back. Its clear that he might now have lost the lockeroom, but this team is soft. AR has transformed from a very demanding, but protective coach to becoming mellow towards the players. He is beginning to remind me of Wade Phillips in that regard.

  70. 70 Kristopher Cebula said at 9:21 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    i feel like reid’s teams have been soft for a few years now. he’s always drafting these undersized finesse players who get pushed around.

  71. 71 Anders said at 10:13 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Is Nate Allen, Brandon Graham, Curtis March, Danny Watkins, Lesean McCoy undersized?

  72. 72 Sb2bowl said at 12:09 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    shhh… people like to believe a lie; it makes them feel better about uneducated theories!

  73. 73 aub32 said at 7:21 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I know Foles is a rookie, but at what point can we say he isn’t ready. He has potential and intangibles, but needs to sit for a while. After last night I believe more than ever that the failures this season are due to coaching. Last night Reid and MM called a great game and the players dropped the ball, literally. However, in doing so they showed how these same adjustments could’ve been made when Vick was still healthy and the season wasn’t lost. I hope next year we can get a coach that puts all his players in a position to succeed and not just the backup QB.

  74. 74 Julescat said at 7:50 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    you’re a few weeks late with the “Done” comment.

    I predicted this team would not win again going into the break.

    this team has been overrated from the start.

    bad coaching. bad schemes, bad attitudes and no talent

  75. 75 TommyLawlor said at 9:40 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    No talent? Utterly ridiculous comment.

  76. 76 Julescat said at 10:57 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    how “talented” is a player who quits on the coach and the team?

    these players have quit on Reid. It was painfully obvious weeks ago.

  77. 77 Ben Hert said at 1:36 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Talent has nothing to do with effort. Kurt Coleman is the epitome of this.

  78. 78 Skeptic_Eagle said at 11:31 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    “Talent” seems to be a topic that pops up over & over. I do think it’s unfair and inaccurate to say they have no talent, but don’t agree with Tommy & others that there is “plenty of talent”, just waiting to blossom for a coach with a more strict demeanor. I just don’t see it.

    Totally agree they were overrated from the start. Vick has been declining since the latter part of 2010. The org knew it themselves, which is why they were a darkhorse for P. Manning, and were in discussions with RGIII. They mismanaged the Castillo situation, aggrandizing 4 meaningless wins against backups, that served the purpose of putting them out of contention for a true franchise QB. They gave the safety situation a lick and a promise, and pretended Asomugha & DRC were the guys they thought they acquired.

  79. 79 quest4fire said at 7:50 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Andy needs to stay. He’s stretched too thin with other duties. His overall drafting has been mostly bad (2010 and 2011 were terrible). Ditka said it best, Coaches coach and players make the plays. Coaches cant make the plays, coaches dont miss tackles, etc. You cant blame Andy for players making mistakes but you can blame him for drafting/acquiring idiotic players. This year we’ve been bit bad with the injury bug and good teams have depth, we dont have that depth and it shows clearly. Also without depth, we cant bench the idiotic players because we dont have anyone better.

    This is what is going to happen at the end of the season– Lurie knows Andy is an outstanding coach (it is the reason why he gave him additional power). Lurie is going to take away his final say on personnel decisions and let Howie be the real GM, Andy will be just be a plain ol Head Coach. Reid can either accept it and if he doesnt then Lurie is going to fire him.

  80. 80 bdbd20 said at 7:57 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I would think we have to go OT in the first round. If the line is stabilized, the QB position becomes better. I’m not in love with Barkley or Smith. Maybe we go with Tyler Wilson or E.J. Manuel in the 2nd round.

  81. 81 TheRogerPodacter said at 9:43 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    i would love to get a versatile OL that could play either OT or OG. assuming both Peters and Herremans return, he could challenge herremans for his starting job or challenge watkins for his spot.

  82. 82 quest4fire said at 8:40 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    In the NFL you cant afford to have bad back to back drafts like we had in 2010 and 2011, it will rear its ugly head and you gotta pay the price. It showed last night when we had 5 rookies start on offense last night (Reynolds technically not a rookie but close enough). Then on top of that we have King who is not a starting caliber OT, Jake Scott who was unemployed 2 weeks ago, Bell as backup who was a FA for a reason. The best coaches in the world cant do anything with this mess.
    Sorry, you can blame Andy for bad coaching but you can blame him for bad drafting/FA acquisitions.

  83. 83 TommyLawlor said at 9:42 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Andy has done a poor job with this team.

    There is talent here. Execution is the problem. And how can you say Dennis Kelly isn’t a starter? He’s had 2 games at RT. Last night we held the Panthers to just 1 sack.

  84. 84 Skeptic_Eagle said at 12:23 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Can’t you make that same argument for any bad NFL team? Of course there is talent here, but is there enough? Consistent execution at a high level comes in to my definition of what “talent” represents.

  85. 85 quest4fire said at 10:37 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Yes we have talent,and we do have some bonafide studs, But all teams have talent and the talent level is really close with all teams, its the depth that key. Injuries happens to all teams, the good teams have the depth to overcome those. Kelly is a rookie and he looks like he’s going to be a good one and we got him in the later rounds. Very nice job. But look at our 2011 class–what has our 1st rounder Watkins been doing for us lately? He’s still learning? What has our 2nd rounder Jarrett been doing for us lately, oops he’s not on the team. How many tackles does our 3rd rounder Curtis Marsh has this year? Oops. Is our 4th rounder, undersized Casey Matthews blowing up the middle? Your first 4 picks need to be major contributors. Rounds 5 to 7 is where you gamble. Look at 2010–Graham and Allen had injuries and are starting to turn it around now. 3rd rounder Teo Nesheim and 4th rounder Lindley is not on the team anymore. Bad drafts like these can make great coaches look bad—see Reid, Andy

  86. 86 BlindChow said at 9:49 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Bell was regarded pretty highly. The knock on him was injury history.

  87. 87 ian_no_2 said at 8:47 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Not to run down a guy who gave Philly a winning record, but Andy has entered a ‘mercy firing’ situation similar to the end of Wade Phillips in Dallas. He will land elsewhere for sure. Haven’t heard a discussion of interim coaches but Bobby April would make the most sense to me, giving him a free hand to tinker with the offense and defense for the last month.

  88. 88 Kristopher Cebula said at 9:17 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    cause he’s done such a great job with the special teams?

  89. 89 BlindChow said at 10:27 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    To be fair, though, of the three coordinators his is probably the area I’d blame more on players than playcalling.

  90. 90 ian_no_2 said at 10:33 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    An interim coach is generally someone within the coaching staff. April is generally regarded a good coach with the ability to possibly be a successful head coach. Without question, he hasn’t been a hightlight at special teams. If you hired Marty M you would have a similar coach to Reid who wouldn’t change the offense. Bowles has performed poorly at DC.

  91. 91 TheRogerPodacter said at 9:41 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    hmm. would firing AR before the end of the season give him a better chance to find another coaching job? would Lurie consider that as a service to him in some way? i’m sure they would discuss it before it came to that, anyway.

  92. 92 Ark87 said at 9:21 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I don’t make too much out of the PC, Tommy. Watch the Bryce Brown post-game. The kid believes he lost the game. The natural line of thought for a young gifted athlete is “yeah but I kept the team in the game to begin with”. That’s not how this kid felt, that is coached. I doubt Brown got the “damn shame, you would have had one of the best rookie debut performances ever if not for them fumbles” talk and a pat on the butt.

    How different is PC Reid from behind closed doors Reid? Quoteth the great Trott last night on PE.com in Reid’s first team meeting he informed them they better do their job or “I will cut your balls”. Apparently that translates more favorably through jock skulls than mine.

    That being said. Yeah, Reid is done. But the post-game PC was an extremely tiny straw on a lame-camel’s back.

  93. 93 P_P_K said at 9:39 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    As long as Cowboy fans are suffering, I don’t feel so bad.

    Democracy in action: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/remove-jerry-jones-gm-and-owner-dallas-cowboys/Jnlqsjl6


    Remove Jerry Jones as GM and owner of the Dallas Cowboys…

    We, the Citizens of the Great State of Texas, and Dallas Cowboys fans worldwide, have been oppressed by an over controlling, delusional, oppressive dictator for way too long. Request the Executive Branch’s immediate assistance in removal of owner and GM, Jerry Jones. His incompetence and ego have not only been an extreme disappointment for way too long, but moreover, it has caused extreme mental and emotional duress.

  94. 94 Matthew Verhoog said at 9:50 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I have to wonder, and this is a tough thing even to write. That Reid’s experience with his sons has made him a worse football coach. Instead of seeing pieces to a football machine he sees young men who need to succeed in life. They need to learn from their mistakes, not suffer with them. He just sees to much of Brett in Bryce and cannot be as harsh as he needs to be to maintain a disciplined football team.

  95. 95 TheRogerPodacter said at 10:47 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    interesting perspective on it. i do wonder how much the offseason troubles have affected AR this season. i have a feeling that things have gotten to him more than he lets on.

  96. 96 BobSmith77 said at 9:54 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Disagree a bit with Tommy about the level of talent out there right now on the field especially with all of the injuries. They do have enough talent to play with second-tier teams like the Skins or Panthers but that is about it. At least half of the guys who started last night won’t be starters next year on Week 1 with this team. Probably closer to 70%-75%.

    More I watch of this team (especially defensively which is bordering on the ridiculous lately), the more I see huge roster change. Very possible you see 4 new starters in the secondary next year especially if they don’t resign DRC.

  97. 97 BobSmith77 said at 10:03 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    As bad as the team was during Reid’s first year, I do think he had a better base of talent to work with than the new coach will have next year. That team Reid came to had two very young franchise-caliber players already at LT (Thomas) and MLB (Trotter), the makings of very solid secondary with Dawkins, Vincent, and Taylor, and obviously a potential franchise QB in McNabb.

    Team that will the new coach will get likely won’t have a very good QB, a questionable OL with a few veteran guys coming off serious injuries, and potentially a very young and raw secondary next year. He will certainly have more talent at the skill positions on offense and on the DL but that is about it. In the pass-happy NFL today, not having a elite QB (top 10) and a potentially porous secondary is a free issue & will make it a challenge for any new coach to come in here with a dramatic turnaround (say 8-8 or better next year if the Eagles finish 3-13 or 4-12).

  98. 98 slackerjoe said at 10:05 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    This season is reminding me of 1994 – the end of the Rich Kotite era. Only instead of losing the last 7 as Kotite did, we could be looking at losing the last 12 to end the Reid era.

  99. 99 47_Ronin said at 10:58 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    What is confounding about this losing streak is that Reid is 20 times (or was) a better coach than Kotite. Excluding the hiring of Bud Carson to be DC, Kotite was an unmitigated disaster as HC.

  100. 100 slackerjoe said at 2:34 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Well Kotite did lead us to the first Eagles playoff win (’92 season) since the Dick Vermeil era, so perhaps his horrible-ness is fading with time. 🙂

  101. 101 Kevin_aka_RC said at 10:07 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    What’s most depressing of this season is the QB situation. Vick? Foles? It doesn’t matter who the coach is if we don’t fix QB.

  102. 102 Mike Flick said at 10:44 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I don’t understand how anyone could be upset with the game last night. It is called PRE-SEASON for a reason. We are not going to start those guys once the real games start.

  103. 103 Skeptic_Eagle said at 10:49 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I think it was pretty clear that Coleman blew the first coverage, and Allen blew the second. I think Bowles even mentioned it was a cover 3, but for some reason, Coleman was shaded completely away from the play. Nnamdi was carrying a receiver, and couldn’t get over. Was also really disappointed on the long pass that DRC & Coleman gave up, because Coleman had to run to catch up to the play, and he was supposed to be the deep help!

    The second blown coverage looked almost identical. Demeco carried Lafell underneath, and was expecting to pass him off to Allen deep, but Allen was shaded to the other side of the field, and in no position to help. Demeco got his string pulled in coverage a few times, but in this case, it looked like he fulfilled his responsibility.

    The real question is, why is anyone surprised? This is who these guys are. If they can’t play a cover 3, I’m not sure what scheme they’re going to succeed in. Unless Bowles is explaining the coverage in Yiddish, I can’t see blaming him for the failure.

    Great running skills displayed by Brown. I’m heartened by an actual display of NFL talent, even if he’s got to learn a thing or two about carrying the ball. With his inexperience–having started his last game in high school–it was always the case that he’d be a raw player. There is a lot to work with there. I loved the way he spun out of the Kuechly open-field tackle (unfortunately, he fumbled about 1 second later).

    Foles, on the other hand, graded out very poorly. I don’t know if it’s the situation, or atmosphere, or what, but the game seems way too quick & big for him. I will be really interested to see the all-22 breakdowns about what was available deep on any of the checkdowns. I have a feeling there were yards to be had, but he wasn’t comfortable throwing into the tight windows downfield.

  104. 104 Tom33 said at 10:57 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    As far as the safeties go – I don’t see why Bowles won’t go back to Sims. He at least was in coverage against the Saints, as opposed to Coleman/Allen who seem to be really good at finding where the opposing receivers are not.

    Foles is the mystery – he looked much better against Dallas coming off the bench than he has in 2 starts where he has all week to prepare and practice. Maybe teams are disguising things better pre-snap (because they figured they didn’t have to with Vick), but he really seems to be getting worse. Staring down receivers and being really late with the ball (as our hopefully not-future HC Jon Gruden pointed out several times last night) to throws where he just made bad choices (the Celek play in the 1st half would have killed a smaller/weaker man).

    I don’t know what the rest of the year holds. It is a sad end to the best run in Eagles history.

  105. 105 Skeptic_Eagle said at 11:19 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I hear you, but do you think it’s possible that irrational hopes are being pinned on Sims, out of desperation? He was kind of an emergency acquisition, right? He looked pretty much like what I’d expect to get from a guy we traded a conditional draft pick for–missing 3 tackles pretty badly in the NO game. Sure, Howie said getting Sims would be a “jolt” for the defense, and far be it from me to disagree with such a sharp football mind (eyes rolling), but it is a little concerning that he hasn’t been able to unseat either of these safeties, who’s problems did not begin against the Carolina Panthers.

    I’m very anxious to see how they’ll address Safety in the offseason. Historically, they don’t value the position, but Howie does things much differently than Joe Banner, in regards to acquisition. Obviously, other than signing Atogwe, who is cooked, they did nothing to address it last year, even though it was a screaming need.

  106. 106 Tom33 said at 11:25 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Don’t get me wrong – I really don’t think the defense will be fixed going to Sims (and unless Howard Mudd and Jim Washburn have been secretly perfecting a cloning device he still can only play 1 of the 2 safety positions), I just think they have to change something to send the message that things still matter to somebody.

    As far as the team not valuing the position – it’s ironic considering the best player in the history of the franchise played that position. But I guess that’s no different than Detroit not valuing RB’s or San Francisco not valuing WR’s….

  107. 107 47_Ronin said at 11:34 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Whoa! I think saying a safety was the best player in franchise history is a little too much hyperbole, considering former players Reggie White and Bednarski.

  108. 108 Tom33 said at 11:41 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I never saw Bednarik play. I have been watching the Eagles since the early-mid 70’s. Reggie and Dawk would be 1 & 1A, and you could put them in either order and I wouldn’t have a problem with it. I hope they figured out that safety matters based on the past couple of seasons. We’ll see.

  109. 109 Ark87 said at 11:58 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    True, but in retrospect, we have had some great safeties in our history. Interesting discussion to be had: what is historically our strongest position? Safety has to be up there. wonder how ACV would weigh in on this one.

  110. 110 47_Ronin said at 11:30 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    The failure to address the Safety position this off season relates to the stubborn belief that Jaiquan Jarrett would improve and justify reaching for him 3-4 rounds before he should’ve been picked.

  111. 111 austinfan said at 10:53 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Reid checked out in training camp and has been going through the motions, which isn’t surprising, but still . . .

    The biggest problem will be finding a QB, Foles simply hasn’t shown enough to project him as a NFL starter right now, there’s nothing in the draft I’d use a top 10 pick (in fact, they may have to think about trading down a couple times, adding picks in 2014 and depth in 2013).

    However, in a sense this was a perfect game, they retained draft position but young players flashed:

    Brown – has to learn to hold the ball tight to his body, but that can be coached, remember how few reps he’s had in his LIFE. But he’s a first round talent as a RB, size, speed, feet, vision, soft hands – just needs hard coaching.

    Lewis – the kid can run, good inside runner who knows how to find cracks, not a dancer like Shady, the little guy that defenses find hard to locate.

    Kelly – squared off against maybe the best LDE in the league in Charles Johnson and held his own, great block on Brown’s second TD, double teaming the DE, peeled off and took out the LB and freed Brown on the edge. Night and day at RT v RG, looked comfortable outside. At 22 he’s not finished growing into his body. I think he may be the starting RT for a long time.

    Thornton, Curry – both need a lot of work, but they’re athletic and they both hustle and fight, two young DL who have a future.

    Kendricks – I’d love to see him at WLB in a conventional 4-3 defense where he can use his speed to wreck havoc, fighting through the rookie wall, but how many LBs can run with Steve Smith in coverage?

    Marsh – nice night on STs, get him on the field

    D Johnson – he’s the slot WR this offense needs, more dangerous than DeSean underneath, consistently gets open, and showed that if you block, he can do things as a PR.

    Boykin – fumble was a killer, but showed that if you give him a lane, he can return kicks, and had a nice PD in the end zone. Work in progress, but the athleticism to push for a starting CB job in the right system.

  112. 112 Skeptic_Eagle said at 11:22 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Agree strongly with most of your comments. There were some good takeaways regarding the young players–showing they can at least be competent, if not stars.

    I like Kendricks, but I thought he got away with a hold when he was “running with Steve Smith in coverage”.

  113. 113 Ark87 said at 11:26 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Not sure about the checked out thing. There is no doubt that all of the circumstances (death, ultimatum, injuries) had a major effect on Reid for the worse (much worse). I don’t think he checked out yet though. I see a highly dedicated and proud coach. A guy that checked out and is going through the motions doesn’t fire a good friend who is running a solid unit.

    Im with you on the rest of the article, great points. 2013 draft is underwhelming. It kind of always is until the hype machine takes over, though.

    The youth on this team is showing some encouraging signs. Foles hasn’t show near enough. He’s show a lot of Rookie mistake that if he doesn’t clean up he won’t have much of a career in this league. I agree with you there. Still lets give him the rest of a season. That won’t be enough to write him off really. But we will have to make a franchise decision based on the film that we have after week 17.

    Frankly I’d semi-write off the next season as an implementation year and hope a great QB reveals himself for the 2014 draft, while also getting more material on Foles. Maybe he makes a sophomore leap? I doubt it, new system, new coach. I’ve never seen that work out well for QB’s going into their second year.

  114. 114 ACViking said at 11:26 AM on November 27th, 2012:


    Your reaction to how AR dealt with B-B’s fumbles is what I’d expect from a 1st or 2nd year HC trying to rebuild a franchise.

    Back in 2003, Brian Westbrook was a rookie — and I thought easily the most talented back on the team. But he finished the year with only 46 carries and 9 receptions.

    Anyway, early in the season, against the Bucs (as I recall it), Westy ran a wheel route up the right side — right to left on the TV — and McNabb dropped a perfect pass into his Westbrook’s lap. But BW let the ball go slip through his hands. BW finished the day with 1 carry for (-1) yards. He never saw the field the rest of the game after that pass.

    But that was then.

  115. 115 Ark87 said at 11:53 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    I’m of the same mind. Can’t take too much from Reid’s public comments on any situation anyway. Who knows what Reid tells Brown and the team behind closed doors.

    That leaves Reid’s actions in the game. Brown fumbled. Then the very next offensive play he came right back to Brown. He fumbled again. Next offensive play he went RIGHT back to the kid. To me that isn’t a huge sign of “this is why Reid gets fired”. Given the situation this was consistent with Reid behavior through the good and bad times. One, Reid throws through slumps, and goes back to fumblers when he needs them. typically rookies don’t get away with fumbling BUT:

    Bryce Brown was the hot hand of the game and one of two healthy running backs. The other back being tiny back that doesn’t shy away from contact (and apparently has been in the doghouse himself this season). Foles spooked Reid with 3 bad near-picks. He might need the Bryce. Wise not to tear him down during the game. Reid wanted to win. Bryce Brown was the only player on the field capable of getting that team out of the hole he dug. In a close game, you don’t turn to the fullback to make a point. If shady was healthy or Nick Foles was a star you can bet Bryce doesn’t see the field for the rest of the game.

    I don’t see anything inconsistent or damning with Reid’s words or actions concerning the Bryce Brown fumbles. Now the defense….somebody needs to be benched or fired for that game, shew.

  116. 116 Khidr9 said at 11:27 AM on November 27th, 2012:

    Regarding the draft, while we have a lot of holes to fill, I see us trading our top pick either for a bucketload of additional picks or a couple 1st round picks next year. I mean really, only this team could even screw up getting a top five pick.

  117. 117 NoDecaf said at 12:28 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    The only caveat to that is the drop off of talent behind the #1 ranked tackle. I just don’t think you can mess around.

  118. 118 Mac said at 2:10 PM on November 27th, 2012:

    Not sure a top 5 pick is worth 2 1st rounders anymore… especially with a weak QB class.