Quick Reid Note + Honey Badger Update

Posted: November 29th, 2012 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 72 Comments »

I’m finishing up the DGR. Don’t worry, it won’t be the normal variety.  I’m focusing on the young players and how they did.  This won’t be a lengthy recap of the game so much as notes on the young guys.

I’ve read a couple of things this morning and something bugged me – Reid bashing.  Listen, 2012 has been a nightmare season that I never saw coming.  It is depressing beyond belief and as a result…Andy Reid will be fired.  That’s the right move to make.

However, this isn’t to say Andy Reid is a bad coach.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  You don’t have the record that Andy does by accident.  It isn’t all due to Jim Johnson.  It isn’t all due to Brian Dawkins, Donovan McNabb, or the other star players.  Andy Reid is a good football coach.

I am unbelievably thankful that I was an Eagles fan during the Reid era.  This man taught me a lot about the game of football.  I’m a heck of a lot smarter in 2012 than I was in 1999 and Reid is responsible for a lot of that.  Andy and I see the world very differently, but you can bet I sure as heck respect him.

Just because this season is falling apart, let’s not turn this into a hate-fest where we all swing our baseball bats at an Andy Reid pinata.  The man took the Philadelphia Eagles from a laughingstock and built them into a top NFL franchise.  This current team sucks to be sure, but that doesn’t erase what he built for 14 years.

I know some of you have hated Reid for a while.  That’s fine.  He knows that as an NFL coach being disliked by some fans is just part of the job.  I’m not asking you to like him.  I just hope that the Andy-bashing doesn’t get out of hand.

Jeff Fisher was 8-8 and 6-10 in his final 2 years with the Titans.  He took a year off and now is doing a terrific job with the Rams.  I don’t recall Fisher getting ripped to shreds in the media and he wasn’t as successful as Andy.

Andy Reid will coach another NFL team in 2013 or 2014, depending on if he wants to take time off.  I hope he goes to the AFC because I don’t want to face him on a regular basis.  That’s about as good a compliment as you can give to an outgoing coach.  There are at least 15 teams who would be lucky to have Reid as their coach, if not more.  I hope he does go to the AFC so I can pull for him.

Try not to forget all the good about Andy as the final month of this miserable season comes to a close.  This isn’t like Rich Kotite, where we said good riddance and meant it.  Andy has a special place in Eagles history.  Big Red drove us all a little crazy at times, but he won games and gave us a team…an organization…to love and believe in.

* * * * *

Tyrann Mathieu, aka Honey Badger, is reportedly going to enter the NFL Draft.  HB was my favorite player heading into the 2012 college season, but he got kicked off the LSU team for drug issues.  This followed a 2011 suspension for failed drug tests.  Just recently HB was involved in a drug arrest (at his apartment).  These are serious issues that will greatly affect his draft value.

Honey Badger still is a major playmaker and good NFL prosect.  He could play Safety or slot corner.  I hope the Eagles do have some interest.  I  think he’d go somewhere in the 4th round area.  HB is undersized, listing at 5-9, 175.  I would love to use him as a box Safety, believe it or not.  He is a good tackler and physical player.  His ability to blitz and make plays in the backfield is very impressive.  In 2011 he led LSU in tackles.  He had 1.5 sacks, 7.5 TFLs, and 6 FFs.  Finished his career with 6 sacks.  No matter what you do, you want HB near the LOS.

Still, that size might be too small for S in the NFL so slot corner is another good spot.  The Eagles already have Brandon Boykin, but he can easily slide outside.  HB cannot play CB on the outside and that does lower his value.  He’s either a S or a slot guy.  Better football player than athlete.

Also is a dynamic kick/punt returner.

The new staff will have to decide if they want to risk a pick on him.  The Eagles had significant interest in Janoris Jenkins last year and took Jack Ikegwuonu years ago so they aren’t afraid to take chances.


72 Comments on “Quick Reid Note + Honey Badger Update”

  1. 1 Tom33 said at 12:06 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Tommy – I’m with you. I see this as a sad ending to the best decade+ in Eagles history. I get the disappointment, especially given the offseason expectations, but the vitriol toward AR is crazy. He is clearly the best coach the Eagles have ever had. Vermeil took a perennial loser to the SB but only had 4 seasons above 0.500 and burned out fast. Buddy was popular, but didn’t win a playoff game. Maybe someday a coach will bring a SB trophy back to Philly, and when they do they will become #1, but until then I don’t think it’s even close.

  2. 2 Arby1 said at 1:50 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    “Maybe someday a coach will bring a SB trophy back to Philly..”

    I believe this should read: “Maybe someday a coach will bring a SB trophy to Philly..” : )

  3. 3 Baloophi said at 12:09 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I think one of the main reasons for Andy-bashing from the Philly media is the claim that he lied to them during the Kolb/Vick exchange. I remember how angry the articles were after that, and how – to a certain extent – the team made an effort to have a more “open Andy” as a result.

    Anyway, Andy-bashing manifested this season with every single article “reminding” Lurie that he said 8-8 wasn’t good enough. You’d see it added in to articles about Demetress Bell and Demeco Ryans as a leader… things that didn’t need to steer toward whether Andy would get fired or not.

    The latest trend is pinning the Wide 9 as some sort of crazy gimmick that has never worked and has now sunk the team, and all because of Reid. Seems to me it worked last season, right?

  4. 4 austinfan said at 12:41 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Kinda. I think the wide 9 could work, but it would require a DC who really wanted to make it work, and got the right personnel. I think it requires a Trotter like NG/MLB (who could drop into coverage but primarily attacks either G-C gap, much like JJ used Trotter) and two athletic OLBs in a modified 5-2, taking away the inside gaps and forcing both guards to help with gap control instead of taking out LBs. Neither Schwartz or Juan really committed to the wide 9 that way, going with conventional MLBs (Tulloch and Ryans) and not investing in OLBs to the extent required. The key is for the front 7 to control the LOS, allowing the safeties to play pass first instead of having to play run first and come up in gap control for the run.

    Problem is if the DEs are wide, you can run through the T-G gap by sealing the DT and running the DE out of the play, this requires a physical OLB to get off blocks to control that gap. Otherwise the safety has to come up, and that makes you vulnerable to play action.

    Carroll has an interesting twist in Seattle, he basically plays 3 DT, Clemons in the wide 9 and can bring the SLB up in a five man front at times. Some 3-4 defense really run a 5-2 with both OLBs on the LOS. The wide 9 could be tweaked to work, but so far no one has figured it out.

  5. 5 RIP Worms said at 1:08 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    To your point, I believe I saw Bowles run a few 5-2 fronts in the CAR game. I think he had BG slide in with 2 DTs (Jenkins/Cox, maybe) and 2 DEs (Cole/Babin?). Anyway, I remember watching it and thinking, why didn’t they try that earlier in the year? If they believed their strength was in the D-Line, replacing a LB with a DL, esp in likely run situations, seems a no-brainer in hindsight.

  6. 6 eagles2zc said at 7:31 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I think that was a result of Juan being the playcaller earlier in the season. I hope Reid goes somewhere else and wins a SB, just to shut up some of national writers (Simmons, etc.) who have always made fun of him. But his time is definitely up in Philly. Some of his recent decisions, such as sticking with Juan, just leaves me scratching my head

  7. 7 Jeppe Elmelund van Ee said at 1:18 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Great post!

  8. 8 ceteris_paribus1776 said at 9:39 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    the problem with the Wide-9 is that it invites gap exploitation in the running game and forces you to keep you athletic OLBs too far inside. By keeping your OLBs in to protect the B-gap, what do you do with swing, wheel, slant, and inside curl routes from slot WRs, RBs, and athletic TE’s? You are already setting your OLB’s too far inside to be effective against these routes. Any play-action that forces the OLBs to hold their point to maintain gap control because you’ve opened up the gaps by playing wide is going to be tough to stop.

    Look, any defense can be great with athletic players who can fight through blocks and cover at the same time. That goes without saying, much the same way that saying the key to the wide-9 is using the front 7 to control the LOS. That’s the same statement for the 3-4 and the 4-3. No defensive system wants their players who are supposed to begin the play 15 yards off the ball to be stepping into the box 10 yards out of position. Modified versions of the wide-9 may work. But a true wide-9 as a base defense may be out of the NFL sooner rather than later.

  9. 9 Arby1 said at 1:56 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I think the press is piling on this season, in part, because that’s just what they do but also, Andy has never been a fount of information, often treating them with disdain. So there’s a lot of built-up animosity.

  10. 10 Ark87 said at 6:31 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Tommy said Lurie can handle the fans’ anger, but he is terrified of the fans losing interest. This is also true of the press. If you are a sports writer….you need people to care enough to read (or watch) your material. Sucks but they need to stir this stuff up to sell their craft. I don’t think it’s too personal. The press has always been and will always be biased towards the sensational.

  11. 11 Julescat said at 12:15 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    isn’t “taking chances” what got Reid in trouble to begin with?

  12. 12 TommyLawlor said at 12:49 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Lots of stuff played part in the demise of this team. Some of that is risky moves, others were conventional moves that just didn’t work.

  13. 13 Matthew Verhoog said at 12:23 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    In ancient greek history a guy named Solon said to the rich governor Croesus, “Call no man blessed until he is dead”. The point being that even the most blessed person now may have tragedy before the end.
    Perhaps the 2012 season will look better when we are dead.

  14. 14 TommyLawlor said at 12:47 PM on November 29th, 2012:


  15. 15 Songbird Rescue Cat said at 12:25 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I agree with just about everything Tommy says about Reid. Personally, this is the first year I thought he should be fired. My first concerns about Reid were in 2009, when the Eagles lost back to back games to the Cowboys (Wade Phillips HC). In the season closer, the Cowboys shut the Eagles out 24-0 and it looked like they’d been both out-schemed and out-coached. I expected Andy to make adjustments, and at least be competitive in the wild card game, if not win it out right. The result was similar with the Eagles losing 34-14 (7 of the Eagles points were in garbage time).

    It wasn’t until this year, and the last several weeks, that I came around to accept firing Reid would be the best thing for the team.

    In regards to HB, I’d have to look at some tape and see how he does in pass coverage. Drafting him before the 5th, in my opinion, would be something of a repudiation of Brandon Boykin, though. Boykin and HB are both RS/inside players. Depth is important, but I think the 4th round is high considering his very recent, apparently ongoing, drug issues. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Jenkins had a mostly “clean” year before coming out for the draft.

  16. 16 nopain23 said at 12:29 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    If he can tackle get him on the roster. A plethora of missed tackles the last two years has been to painful to endure the last two years. Also , true Iggles fans should not be focused on bashing AR when he’s down. Our real focus should be on who will lead the iggles for possibly the next decade.Frankly all this Chip Kelly talk makes me nervous. Tommy, when you do write about the next possible HC candidates do you mind ranking them,say 1 through 5???

  17. 17 izzylangfan said at 12:34 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Eagles fans please forgive me I have done the unthinkable. Yesterday, for the first time I looked at a 2013 mock draft, officially signaling the end of the season and going to a wait till next year perspective. With the help of hindsight we now know that the firing of Castillo was wrongheaded because not only has the defense become worse it has completely fallen apart. Yes, Castillo presided over two fourth quarter losses but the defense had played well in most games and even his final games except for those fatal fourth quarters. But Castillo looks like a scapegoat because the problem the whole season is the offense that has not had one good game. At first it was the play of Vick that was so bad there are no words. And then it was the decimation of the O line and perhaps other. Now the team has come completely unglued. I am baffled at the attainment of complete disfunction. So: How in the world do you fix this mess? Would you resign DRC? Dare we start Hughes and/or Marsh next year?

  18. 18 Ark87 said at 12:36 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    yes a 4th quarter collape is still better than a 4 quarter collapse.

  19. 19 bridgecoach said at 3:13 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Completely agree. Eagles played much better defense under Castillo than Bowles. Our defensive unit – preparation, play calling and execution – was our best unit Castillo was fired – and now it is our worst. Castillo deserves to catch on with another team – really wish him the best.

  20. 20 Ark87 said at 7:16 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    It’s hard to believe it’s the same unit. Juan had THESE guys functional in only his second year on the defensive side of the football!? Reid has earned the right to finish the season with dignity through many years of excellence, but so did Juan. Been wearing the midnight green since 1995. I was disappointed that Reid gave him the DC job, was even more disappointed in the way and circumstance that Reid took it away.

    He’ll land on his feet somewhere. He is well respected. Hey we are going to have an O-line coach opening next year right?

  21. 21 austinfan said at 12:34 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Honey Badger will be lucky to be drafted, he’s in a similar situation as Bryce Brown but with far worse intangibles. People knew Brown was talented, but his college career was so weird. Honey Badger has shown he can make plays, but his size is a big red flag even if he played (durability would be a huge issue at safety), if he’s limited to nickel CB that would drop him to the 3rd or 4th round (see Boykin), and his off field antics will probably make him undraftable (multiple suspensions waiting to happen, his lack of judgment and immaturity make PacMan Jones look like a model citizen).

    AR had a great run in Philly, no reason to kick him when he’s down, he should have resigned two years ago when his kids were screwing up so badly, and spent time with his family and got his life together. But five trips to the NFCCG ain’t something you do by accident.

  22. 22 Kevin_aka_RC said at 1:51 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Mathieu was a Heisman finalist. Bryce was all talent, no production. Not remotely the same thing.

  23. 23 TommyLawlor said at 2:41 PM on November 29th, 2012:


  24. 24 austinfan said at 2:49 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Except the track record of Heisman finalists is awfully mixed.
    Problem for HB is his measureables don’t translate to the pro game, Leonard is the only S I can think of that smalll, and he struggles to stay on the field, so did Sanders (much faster) for that matter.

    And as a nickel CB, he’s a mid-round pick before the off field problems.

    If drafting was based on college production, Tebow would have been a 1st rd pick, wait, he was? Well, just shows there’s something to the bigger fool theory.

  25. 25 Anders said at 3:02 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Bob Sanders reminds me alot about HB

  26. 26 austinfan said at 9:53 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Except Sanders was 200+ lbs at 5’8, running a legitimate 4.4 40.

  27. 27 Kevin_aka_RC said at 4:29 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    A quality slot corner is invaluable in today’s NFL. That’s worth at least a 3rd, likely a 2nd. He gives you ST help, CB help, S help in spread packages if you want to run a 4-2-5. Just good stuff all-around.

    He may be a headache, but he’s also a gamer.

  28. 28 Iskar36 said at 5:23 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    “A quality slot corner is invaluable in today’s NFL. That’s worth at least a 3rd, likely a 2nd.”

    I think that is true when the slot corner also has potential as an outside CB. From what it sounds like, HB doesn’t have that potential and is limited to being a slot CB.

  29. 29 holeplug said at 6:45 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I could see a team trying to turn him into what Green Bay did with Charles Woodson after he got too old to play corner on the outside.

  30. 30 Steven DiLeo said at 12:35 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Have you ever made fun of someone or criticized someone behind then back and then started saying good things about them because you felt bad about how nasty you were?

  31. 31 TommyLawlor said at 12:50 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    We do that to you all the time.

  32. 32 Steven DiLeo said at 5:05 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    sniff. sniff. 🙁
    Derek was never like this. RIP Igglesblog.

  33. 33 TommyLawlor said at 6:08 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    You know, you’ve always been my favorite poster. Your more awesomer than I deserve. Please forgive me.

  34. 34 mcud said at 12:36 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    It was always going to end badly, otherwise, it wouldn’t end. The guy wasn’t going to retire if we won a SuperBowl, a la Dungy or Cowher. And other than that, isn’t every coach eventually fired (or “asked” to retire)?

    I love Andy. Astonishingly frustrating as he often is.

  35. 35 TommyLawlor said at 12:51 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Valid point.

  36. 36 Steven DiLeo said at 1:13 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I wouldn’t mind a Super Bowl followed by a decade of 9-7 and 10-6 seasons.

  37. 37 Steven DiLeo said at 12:49 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Honey Badger and Relando McClain. Looks like we filled two roster positions for next year. Sounds good.

    Wasn’t Bob Sanders listed at 5’8? HB is listed at 175. How do you expect him to play in the box and not get swallowed up by blockers?

  38. 38 ACViking said at 12:52 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Re: Did Andy Reid Cut off His (metaphorical) Ear?

    There’s a reason good art becomes great art, and more expensive art, after the artist is dead. (Not always. But sometimes.)

    Because — as the poet Peter Clemenza said 40 years ago — “You won’t see him no more.”

    [HT Matthew Verhoog]

  39. 39 TommyLawlor said at 2:42 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Clemenza a poet? I know he’s a great chef. I used his sauce recipe all the time.

  40. 40 ACViking said at 4:21 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    well played.

  41. 41 bdbd20 said at 12:52 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Good points on Andy. I hope he goes someplace where he’ll really be appreciated. If he ends up in CLE or KC and gets them to the playoffs consistently, he’ll be a god.

  42. 42 ACViking said at 12:58 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Re: Taking a Chance on T-Law’s Next Adopted Son: The Honey Badger


    You mentioned that the Birds were interested in CB Janoris Jenkins before the 2012 draft to make the point — as their choice of RB Bryce “Bo Jackson” Brown confirms — “they aren’t afraid to take chances.”

    QUESTION: Is that Howie Roseman’s philosophy? Or was that Andy Reid’s updated philosophy (as, if memory serves, before AR’s kids had their trouble, Andy stayed away from kids with character issues — at least, that’s the media-generated memory I have).

  43. 43 TommyLawlor said at 2:43 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I think this is Howie. He’s more aggressive than Andy. Don’t know that for a fact. Just a hunch on my part.

  44. 44 RIP Worms said at 1:14 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I hope Andy takes a year off and then comes back in the AFC. I think he needs to get away from football for awhile for the proverbial “recharging of his batteries.” I genuinely feel for the guy.

    Also, I think it’s highly unlikely the coach next year is anywhere near as good as 1999 Andy. That includes the possibility that it’s 2013 Andy.

  45. 45 Jeppe Elmelund van Ee said at 1:16 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I would absolutely LOVE Honeybadger in the top of the fourth round! Last year I was wondering if picking at the end of round one would take us out of the picture for his services… How a year can change you – both the Eagles and for HB.

    Joeckel, Elam/Reid, Slot WR and HB as our picks in round one through four would be amazing!

  46. 46 ACViking said at 1:32 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Re: Bryce Brown’s Fumblitis . . . A Common Disease that’s Curable

    1. HOF Walter Payton – 9 fumbles in his first 13 games

    2. HOF Eric Dickerson – 49 fumbles in his first 62 games (holly cow, Batman!)

    3. Chuck Foreman – 24 fumbles in his first 49 games
    (The best all-around RB, I think, in the past 40 years — bigger and just as
    elusive and maybe even a better receiver than Marshall Faulk. Played in 3 SB with the Vikings in the ’70s.)

    4. HOF Franco Harris – 15 fumbles in his first 21 games

    5. Adrian Peterson – 20 fumbles in his first 46 games

    6. HOF OJ Simpson – 12 fumbles in first 21 games

    7. HOF Barry Sanders – 10 fumbles in his first 15 games

    8. HOF Emmitt Smith – 15 fumbles in his first 31 games

    9. LaDanian Tomlinson – 8 fumbles in his first 16 games

    10. Frank Gore – 8 fumbles in his first 17 games

  47. 47 TommyLawlor said at 2:45 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Never heard of those guys. Could you get me the numbers for stars like Darnell Autry and Lamar Gordon?

    It is funny how bad Dickerson was. I think him being a tall, upright runner had a lot to do with that. Didn’t know that about Franco. Pretty wild.

  48. 48 Mac said at 4:33 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I want to hear more about future HOF Keith Byars!

  49. 49 Ark87 said at 3:11 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    That is shocking. Still, most of them were going at a clip of 1 fumble every 2 games not 2 fumbles every 1 game. Hate to look to a Giant for hope, but Tiki…if you’re out there, a young star needs you.

    Come to think of it, the Giants are really good at taking turnover proned players and making them among the stingiest in the league. Caughlin coached it out of both Tiki and Eli right?

  50. 50 Kristopher Cebula said at 2:27 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    i personally think that andy should take a year off and spend some time with the family. he’s been burning both ends of the candle for 14 years and i think that a year off would do him some good. burn out in conjunction with the loss of his son i believe has drained him of his drive and focus. unfortunately i don’t think andy realizes this and will probably be coaching somewhere else next year

  51. 51 bdbd20 said at 2:39 PM on November 29th, 2012:


    What do you make of the fact that the two roster spots are still open?

  52. 52 TommyLawlor said at 2:47 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Eagles are looking for players. They are trying to find the right young guys to add and either haven’t made up their mind or are negotiating. PS players don’t have to sign with you. Could be some guys are scared to sign here since they know Andy will be gone and they don’t know who the coach will be or what the systems will be.

  53. 53 austinfan said at 3:15 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Plus, the guys they want to sign are also the guys most likely to be offered full contracts by their teams (NE was paying Salas a NFL contract on the PS, for example, and wanted him back on the PS when we snagged him on waivers). So players have to weigh staying with the system they know or go to a team where there is more opportunity (i.e. gonna be a lot of roster churn, which is what you want as a young player looking for a real shot at making a roster).

    if I’m that big S on Seattle, after looking at the Eagle safeties, I’d sign so fast my head would spin, try to beat out Chancellor and Thomas or Allen and Coleman?

  54. 54 GermanEagle said at 3:35 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I don’t pray a lot, but dear God please let the eagles get HB. I wouldn’t mind at all to spend a 3rd round pick on him. There’s little to no chance that he will do any worse than our safeties at the moment…!

  55. 55 Andrew Hope said at 4:20 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Reid WAS a great coach. He hasn’t been great for awhile now. Reid did an excellent job turning around a languishing franchise, and in very short order. From 1999-2004, he went 64-32 (.667). In the last 8 years, however, Reid has basically been a .500 coach, going 65-57-1 (.528), a record that will in all likelihood only get worse over the remainder of this season.
    Reid did a great job changing the culture in Philly and has a rare gift for grooming quarterbacks. But the rest of the league has long since passed him by. Rather than adapt, Andy has always insisted on winning his way. Initially, he had enough talent on the roster to compensate for his dreadful gameday decisions. And while Reid was certainly plauged by a bit of bad luck in big games (1-5 in NFC Championships/0-1 in Super Bowls), just as often he was simply outschemed and outcoached.
    Reid will get another shot as a head coach somewhere soon. In my mind, though, he is more valuable as a QB Coach/offensive coordinator (though one without playcalling duties).

  56. 56 Skeptic_Eagle said at 4:57 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    This is well stated. I hope this kind of measured critique of his performance is not lumped into “ANDY REID HATE” category, and actually evaluated in the spirit it was written in.

  57. 57 TommyLawlor said at 6:10 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    We’ll put Andy in full context in January when everything is official and all the stats are finalized. There are good and bad things to say. No one disputes that.

  58. 58 Eagles_Fan_in_San_Fran said at 12:53 AM on November 30th, 2012:

    Let me add on to that:

    The numbers show that the Eagles success under AR has been predicated on 2 main things:
    1) Donovan McNabb (especially pre-ACL Donovan)
    2) Jim Johnson

    Taking a look at those numbers:
    2000-2004: 59-21 (avg record: 12-4), 7 playoff wins, made 4 conference championship games and 1 SB appearance.
    2005: OK, forget that year ever happened – a mulligan year.
    2006-2008: Donovan goes down with the ACL, is never the same. 27-20-1 (avg record: 9-7), 2 playoff appearances and 3 playoff wins.
    2009-2012: Post JJ (RIP), 32-27 (which included a deceptive 11-5 season in 2009), 2 playoff appearances, no wins and one humiliating playoff loss to Dallas in 2009 (that likely sealed Donovan’s fate).

    So stripped of Donovan and especially JJ, AR is exposed as not as great a HC as he’s been portrayed to be – and considering his horrendous gameday skills, he can be – as I’ve argued elsewhere – considered a fraud.

  59. 59 ultramattman said at 11:04 AM on November 30th, 2012:

    If you’re going to take away Jim Johnson and Donovan McNabb, then I get to replace Jerome McDougle with Troy Polamalu and make sure Drew Rosenhaus never meets T.O.

  60. 60 Andrew Hope said at 11:19 AM on November 30th, 2012:

    I agree, you just can’t strip credit from Reid for hiring Johnson and drafting/developing McNabb.
    As for T.O., the organization could have (and should have) made an exception and just guaranteed his roster bonus. T.O. acted like a baby, but the front office cut off its nose to spite its face.

  61. 61 ultramattman said at 11:30 AM on November 30th, 2012:

    Maybe the front office could have smoothed things out by caving to TO. *Maybe*. Personally, I have a hard time believing anything would make TO content. It wouldn’t have been long before he found something else to complain about. People forget that, even in 2004, TO was a constant string of minor headaches. He was a headache for Dallas too.

  62. 62 Michael Riccardi said at 4:26 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I’ve been watching the Eagles for more than 40 years, and by far the team’s best run came from 2000 to 2004, including four NFC East titles and the SB appearance. Those were Reid’s Eagles. Johnson’s too, but it was AR who brought JJ here. So salute him for a historic run.

    Of course it is time for him and the Eagles to part. A healthy move for both parties.

    Having said that, I really hope he takes a sabbatical year. He certainly has taken a mental pounding and deserves some time to take stock, get healthy and recharged for whatever direction he wants to take. He will certainly be snapped up quickly by an NFL team or top-drawer college program when he is ready to come back.

    And who knows, he might even be funny and loose if he takes a year off to do some TV work. We know he has a sly sense of humor. Add that to his football knowledge and he might be a terrific broadcaster with real insight.

  63. 63 Mac said at 4:32 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I doubt it would happen, but maybe Reid would go HC at BYU if he wants to get out of the NFL rat race.

  64. 64 Skeptic_Eagle said at 4:52 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I have no need to pour vitriol on Andy Reid, I think it’s overkill at this point. I also have no desire to sing his praises right now, as the winningest coach in history, a guy that made the Eagles relevant again, etc. For me, the argument not to pour on with Reid-hate makes more sense when viewed through the lens of not kicking a guy when he’s down. Sure, he picked up the Eagles as a laughingstock, brought us some wins, excitement, and disappointment, and he’s leaving the Eagles in the same shape he found them; unless you have a coach going out directly after winning a title, that’s how professional coaching pretty much works.

    I feel similarly to when McNabb was traded. The anger, frustration, and disappointment of what he failed to accomplish is way too intense to accurately reflect on the good things he’s done for the franchise. Time and perspective is needed. I’m not sure I’ve got that yet, even for McNabb, so it might be a longer time coming for Reid.

  65. 65 Iskar36 said at 5:21 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I agree with this. There is no question in my mind that AR is the best coach in Eagles history, but I really could care less right now. I have no need to go over the top with bashing him or reading AR-bashing, but at the same time, I think he is very deserving of getting fired at the end of this season (and arguably should have been fired earlier), and the articles that rightfully point out his struggles and inefficiencies are deserved right now. In 5-10 years, that will change, but right now, negative emotions towards AR are understandable from the short-term view perspective.

  66. 66 TommyLawlor said at 6:13 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    There is a huge difference in being critical and bashing. Anyone who writes a fact-based piece that points out his deficiencies…that’s legit criticism.

    Too often the person makes an illogical jump to some sweeping conclusions based on a nugget or two. Or the criticism gets personal. Or just rips him for the kind of stuff that all coaches are guilty of. That’s when the critic loses credibility and is just being anti-Reid for the sake of it…kick him while he’s down syndrome. And that I’ve got no respect for.

  67. 67 Ark87 said at 6:45 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    I just hope big Red can hold this team together for the rest of the year. A lot of people would love to see this thing crash and burn for draft position. But I want to see the team show some pride and go out with dignity. Some feel-good wins aren’t meaningless to me. The nfl isn’t doing an expansion draft for us next year. Like it or not this team will remain largely intact next season. Wash this funk away now. Preserve the concept of a team. If you know your teammates will quit on you this year, you know they will quit on you next year.That doesn’t go away just because some new faces show up. I’m hoping Andy can fix this team, get something for the next guy to build off of. That’s more important than draft position in an underwhelming draft to me.

  68. 68 greenblood0118 said at 7:24 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Tommy, some of us have seen this coming since the SB loss.

  69. 69 ceteris_paribus1776 said at 8:43 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    As I’m watching the NO/ATL game, I’m seeing what a safety making a play actually looks like. Huh…

  70. 70 SleepingDuck said at 9:23 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    Monte Kiffen is resigning at USC following the Bowl Game. Any interest in him as a DC?

  71. 71 ceteris_paribus1776 said at 9:54 PM on November 29th, 2012:

    For the first time in a while I’m really excited about an Eagles off-season. I think the element of uncertainty is intriguing for the Eagles. The Eagles teams of late have been predictable. You expect a decent team that will lose a few head-scratchers, look like a SB contender at times, and end the end be somewhat competitive, but don’t expect them to be talented or well coached enough to win the big one.

    Every year someone asks me how do I feel about them and almost every year the answer is somewhere around 10-6 or below, competing for a play-off spot but not much more. I’m excited to see what a change can bring, even if it’s more failure initially. It will put into proper perspective certain elements of Reid’s teams. We can see what a different drafting philosophy may bring along with different offensive and defensive systems.

  72. 72 Eagles_Fan_in_San_Fran said at 12:25 AM on November 30th, 2012:

    Andy Reid:

    HOF HC Monday-Saturday.

    Sunday, not so much.