Well, That Sucked

Posted: November 6th, 2012 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 94 Comments »

The Eagles lost.  And played bad.  Again.

2012 has not been a fun year.  The team started 3-1, but has now lost 4 in a row.  The first 2 losses were nail-biters.  The last 2 were blowouts.  Is that because of who the Eagles played or is the team starting to fall apart?  Heck if I know.

I wasn’t sure that the Eagles would win on Monday night, but I knew….I KNEW…that the offense would finally have a breakout game.  Apparently I don’t know squat.  The offense gained 447 yards and put up a whopping 13 points.  They were 0-5 in the Red Zone with 2 turnovers and a turnover on downs.  This team is worse at scoring that me at the Playboy Mansion wearing a Hugh Hefner Sucks t-shirt.

The O-line played poorly.  Michael Vick didn’t always help matters.  The playcalling left a lot to be desired in some key situations.  Losing Todd Herremans was a big blow.  Demetress Bell took over at RT and was awful.  Dennis Kelly was borderline-awful at RG.  He must not want to keep Danny Watkins job.

The defense didn’t play well, but did limit the Saints to 21 offensive points.  I thought for sure that would have been good enough to win, but not even close.

There is a lot to be mad about right now.  The Eagles are 3-5 and playing bad football.  The key players aren’t stepping up.  The coaches aren’t finding solutions.  A lot of you are ready to fire Reid and bench Vick.  Reid isn’t going anywhere until after the season so there is no reason to get too much into that discussion right now.  Vick will start Sunday vs Dallas.  That’s the right move.  He didn’t play well vs the Saints, but the OL was so bad that it wouldn’t be right to bench him based on that game.

The season isn’t over at 3-5.  It is sure headed in that direction, but I firmly believe a team should always focus on winning until you get that 8th loss.  8-8 isn’t getting you into the playoffs this year.  Until that time comes, you continue coaching and playing with the goal of getting into the playoffs, no matter how unlikely it is.

The Dallas game is now the Who Sucks Less Bowl.  Right now that is a pick ’em game.


* * * * *

Jimmy Bama and I did a podcast.  Served as therapy for the crappy game.  We actually laughed a lot more than you’d expect.  Misery turned to stupidity and goofiness for us.


94 Comments on “Well, That Sucked”

  1. 1 Songbird Rescue Cat said at 2:07 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    My opinion is that Andy Reid has lost this team. I don’t see how anything would be gained by firing him mid-season, but it’s going to take some luck for him to get this collection of players back and playing as a team that looks like it cares about winning.

    Vick is not part of that problem. He looks like he cares, down to the last second.

    Lacking a miracle turn-around and going to the NFC Championship game, this is Andy’s last year in Philadelphia. It should be Howie Roseman’s as well. Too many mistakes in the draft for too many years.

    Time to admit it’s time to rebuild. Starting with the Head Coach.

  2. 2 Anders said at 6:40 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Outside of Watkins and Jarrett in the 2011 draft, who do you see as early round failures by Roseman?

  3. 3 47_Ronin said at 10:55 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    I would count Danny Teo-Nesheim in the list of failures. Roseman has only had 3 drafts, it’s too early to gauge 2012 and the jury is still out on 2011, but we can grade the 2010 draft and it is not looking good. The Eagles were able to acquire 13 picks in 2010 (note as well that over the last several drafts the Eagles have been in the top 1-3 in terms of the amount of picks). Out of the 13 picks, 5 are still on team 2-3 are starters (depending if B. Graham remains starter), 1 is a starter by default (Coleman b/c there is no better option at Safety) and none are impact players. A while back, when Derrick at Iggles Blog was actively blogging he did an analysis on the Eagles roster overhaul, Reid & Co. have revamped the roster and have one of the the youngest units. But the Eagles have notable flaws:
    * serious lack of depth at Safety
    * offensive line issues (D. Watkins is beginning to look like a bust)
    The current Eagles don’t appear to have an identity, they don’t have any Dawkins, Trotters, Runyans, Westbrooks, Douglas’. IMO that speaks to the Reid and Roseman in the players they’re going after.
    One of the biggest shortcomings, or perhaps the biggest, with a GM in any sport is overvaluing the talent on the team. I think Roseman and Reid are guilty of that. If Reid is let go after this season, I think Roseman should get the pink slip as well.

  4. 4 Songbird Rescue Cat said at 1:31 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    I’ll give credit for the Nate Allen pick in 2010. I think he’s played up to reasonable expectations, if not exceeded them. Certainly, he’s no Bryan Dawkins.

    Other than that, I agree with everything. We went into this season with big questions about the Safety position, and did nothing to address it. Kind of like the right side of the offensive line in 2010.

  5. 5 Anders said at 1:36 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    2010’s biggest problem is the injury to the top 2 players. Sadly Allens career seems to be filled with hammys, but Graham looks like an impact player (he is really doing alot in very few snaps).

    2011 is out of the window if Watkins does not improve, but atleast the Watkins pick for me smell like an AR pick (but we also have to remember outside of his age Watkins was a top prospect).

    2012 looks really promising, but tough to tell over the long stretch.

    I cant remember who said it, but the Eagles biggest problem right now is that they are drafting well for depth, but lack the truely impact player (Allen and Graham flashed it before their injuries), Watkins had the potential but suck right now, but Cox looks like he could be one next year.

  6. 6 Songbird Rescue Cat said at 1:26 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    While Brandon Graham isn’t a bust, he’s under-performed to date. 1st round draft picks should start their rookie years (exception for late, developmental skill positions like RB, QB and defensive secondary), not be rotational players as Graham has been since he was drafted. His injury excuses his absence in 2011, certainly, but he wasn’t exactly playing great in 2010 before he got hurt. Best as I recall, Juqua Parker was starting LDE through most/all 2010.

    Graham may work out. It’s certainly too early to tell given his injury, and there have been some stats suggesting he’d do better as a starter than Babin. For now, though, the pick is “meh” at best.

    The expectation that Casey Matthews could start at MLB as a 4th round pick (especially in the lockout year without OTAs) was a pretty big failure. The backup plan for Matthews was later round 2010 pick Jamar Chaney. We know how that worked out.

    It’s also fair to point out that in 2010 the right side of the offensive line was kind of a mess. Neither Dunlap or Justice had developed into starting material, and the questions were at least as big at RG given how MJG and Nick Cole played in 2009. Yet, the Eagles made only 1 offensive line signing – a 2009 UDFA who spent most of that season on the practice squad. He was waived before the season started.

    Big questions at RT and RG, and your plan is to do…nothing.

  7. 7 Anders said at 1:40 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    Graham was a better rookie over all than JPP and Parker was still a good LDE back in 2009 and 2010.

    What have Matthews and Chaney anything to do with drafting talent in the early rounds?

    also why are you only focusing on 2010? We won 11 games back then.

  8. 8 Ollivier Boguais said at 2:10 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Sorry Tommy but the season is over… Even if we go by miracle in PO, this team won’t win the Lombardi… They should prepare the future while playing with Foles the remaining weeks. I’m fine to have a loosing season with a rookie if it could be useful for the next years….

  9. 9 TommyLawlor said at 2:34 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Putting Foles in behind this OL right now would not be good. Maybe when Todd comes back.

  10. 10 mhrinda said at 3:07 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    You may be right Tommy but its better to see what we have in Foles now in adversity to see what kind of leader he is. Watch the good QBs they talk to their line to make the best of any given situation. As for me the Mudd era is over, I want Castillo back.

  11. 11 Anders said at 6:39 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    So you are blaming Mudd for 4 starters been injured?

  12. 12 mhrinda said at 7:09 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Im blaming a system where its nearly impossible to find good servicable replacements once other people get hurt. No Thanks Mudd.

  13. 13 Anders said at 7:10 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    You remember 2009? finding good serviceable replacements at all most any position is impossible mid season, more so for OL because continuity is so important.

  14. 14 mhrinda said at 9:30 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    This is a good article to sum up whats different between Castillos OL and Mudds OL: http://gcobb.com/2012/11/01/castillo-move-is-still-hurting-andy-reid-and-eagles/

  15. 15 Anders said at 9:58 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Can you please tell me how its Mudd’s fault that we are down 4 OLs now? You remember how well Mudd’s unit played last year? Blaming Mudd for lossing the best OL in the NFL last year, a great up and coming center and now a very good RT (who for some reason unknown have caught the inconsistincy bug there plagues this team)?

  16. 16 mhrinda said at 10:12 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    One year doesnt make the new OL anything. The problem with Mudds system is that when players do get injured they are hard to replace. In football injuries happen. But like Green Bay and the Giants over the past few seasons overcame injuries and win big games. Again ill take Castillos lines anyday.

  17. 17 Anders said at 10:26 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    The Giants OL backups wasnt any better than the Eagles. Giants last year and for most of this year just have a QB who can regonize a blitz and can hit his hot read.

    Show me a team who successfully replace a pro bowl talent with a backup mid season.

  18. 18 mhrinda said at 10:31 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Injuries are very common in the NFL. The keys are planning ahead good coaches and a system that is not too fancy and complex so adequate backups can be found. Sure would be nice to have justice and the other Mudd castoffs right now.

  19. 19 miked718 said at 7:06 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    If we ever want Foles to play meaningful snaps we cannot put him behind this line. Demarcus Ware is licking his chops right now. Herremans just saved Vicks job, at least as long as he survives. Wouldn’t it be funny if Lurie cleaned house and brought Castillo back as OL coach?

  20. 20 Anders said at 7:11 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Why not? Foles played behind a terrible OL in college.

  21. 21 miked718 said at 7:47 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Besides Demarcus Ware twice and the Giants D line, a bandaid O line might keep him relatively clean. Our schedule from here on out isn’t so tough, for a playoff contender anyway.

  22. 22 mhrinda said at 8:55 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Reid in my estimation weakened 2 areas when moved Castillo to DC: The defense of course and the offensive line. There will never be the right time to put Foles in. You just have to do it. The world is not perfect and in Eagle land things are even more imperfect. And to be honest the season is over. We need to stop wasting time and see some of the other players in gametime situations instead of having to wait until the off season to speculate who can do what. The owner needs to step in and say Andy put in the other guys and tell him privately you will be fired at the end of the season.

  23. 23 miked718 said at 9:16 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    OR Reid is fired today, Juan is brought back as interim head coach. The players, like the cowardly lion, find their heart after an injection of firebrand coaching from Castillo. Mudd and Washburn run for the hills and Castillo finds the fattest, most immovable lineman to basically stand arm in arm in front of Vick. Since he doesn’t know how to run a team, the players do what they want and Vick is let off the leash to play for stats and survival. All the stars are forced onto special teams which becomes unstoppable. We rattle off 7 wins against our cupcake remaining schedule, run the table in the playoffs on the road and become the 2012 version of the Giants. Castillo is a God in Philly and Reid retreats to a California mountain top to grow his mustache to incredible lengths.
    Oh and Howie Roseman definitely gets fired…

  24. 24 kaninfaan said at 9:55 AM on November 6th, 2012:


  25. 25 Anders said at 9:18 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    We had one of the best OLs last year.

  26. 26 mhrinda said at 9:24 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Its a OL scheme that cannot be maintained.
    The players that fit this scheme have to be very athletic and mobile …how many big OL are like this? Not many as you see this season… on top of that they have to learn Mudds schemes which seem difficult for these FOOTBALL players to pick up and use… no thank you. I will take a NORMAL OL scheme next year.

  27. 27 Anders said at 1:42 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    Look around the NFL, its filled with crappy OL play. Remember the main reason we have a crap OL is not scheme, but injuries.
    Remember Mudd coached the Colts OL for a decade and they always had a good OL.

  28. 28 mhrinda said at 5:22 AM on November 7th, 2012:

    Its a poor choice for a system because since many teams dont employ it even at the college levels there are not many OL that fit this scheme thus when OL do get hurt or need to be replaced they are very hard to find. Give me a common OL where placing a big body at least helps a little. And Mudd who had his day in the past did retire. I think he should have stayed that way. My thoughts: I dont want Vick I dont want Mudd (system) and I dont want the useless wide 9 that noone but a few teams use. Again the Eagles try to pull the tricks out of their bag to surprise the competition. Nevermind all that lets actually win some football games.

  29. 29 nicolajNN said at 2:12 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    “The season isn’t over at 3-5. It is sure headed in that direction, but I firmly believe a team should always focus on winning until you get that 8th loss. 8-8 isn’t getting you into the playoffs this year. Until that time comes, you continue coaching and playing with the goal of getting into the playoffs, no matter how unlikely it is.”

    I know some people will complain about this. For me the season is over, until the team proves otherwise anyway. I have no faith in this team qualifying for the playoffs. But you are right, for the players and coaches the season is not over. And I don’t want to lose out to get a better draft pick, I don’t ever hope for a loss

  30. 30 T_S_O_P said at 2:14 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    I wanted to wake and make sounds like Cooter from Dukes of Hazzard. Having seen the result; not so much. In fact, the first words that entered my head upon reading it were ‘sterile’. I find that I’m not angry (having not watched it live), I’m just resigned. It seems we were the fillip New Orlen’s needed not visa ersa

  31. 31 TommyLawlor said at 2:33 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Never expected you to reference Cooter.

  32. 32 T_S_O_P said at 11:40 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    I liked Cooter (did he influence Mater?). However, I am totally incorrect here in my reference. Despite his name, Cooter didn’t ‘coo coo coooo’, that was Roscoe Peeeeeeeeeeee Coltraine.

  33. 33 mhrinda said at 2:17 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Its like beating a dead horse. Start making changes now. We all know in our gut where this team is going. (keep Reid til the end but the owner should tell him its time to make changes Andy). in which yes you will be fired at the end of this season.

  34. 34 Christian Therealw said at 2:37 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Time to say goodbye to (guess so)

    1) HC Andy Reid
    2) Those successfull years and looking ahead to some misserable years without a franchise QB
    3) To the Eagles as we know them for over a decade

    Time to say goodbye to (hope so)

    1) Jason Babin. 18 Sacks were enough to cover is really bad plays on run games
    2) Nmandi Aso. 15M $ no new Coach would spend this kind of money
    3) Michael Vick. Guess he will play backup behind Tom Brady
    4) thats about 35M $ extra capspace (ad another 8M $ from Bells contract)

    Time to say goodbye to (fear so)

    1) Winning seasons and PO Chances for a couple of years
    2) Eagles as a team to be a contender every year
    3) A team without the Pittsburgh Rapist, the Bengals Druglord, The Browns Carkiller, Saints Bountyhunters…. A team without bonehead players who have off-field incidents and arrests

    4) A “team first” approach bye the people in charge

    5) Consistency at all levels

    It was great as long as it lasted, but I think the goodtimes are over. Welcome to Raider-Lions-Redskins World.

  35. 35 mhrinda said at 3:04 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Its not going to be that bad. Seriously we do not have a franchise QB now, We have a QB with name recognition. Its really not going to be that bad if we make hard decisions and refocus our talent evaluation with someone from the outside that has had success super bowl success in the past or is a superior talent evaluator at the college level that again has won the big championship games and has proven he can evaluate talent. My take: if Reid goes Howie goes or at least Howie is moved into a non decisive executive position where he will have no say so in any football matters (better to fire him). I see a new era coming where we can be excited about watching Eagles football again. I believe it. Its just time to start making the player personal changes now: this season is over.

  36. 36 BobSmith77 said at 10:01 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    It is going to be wholesale change at this point with Reid/Roseman/Vick gone. It doesn’t mean the next 5 years are hopeless but it does mean a new starting QB next year, a new coach & FO, and likely a rebuilding year with a target of .500 or so.

    Good thing is that with the current NFL structure it is possible to bounce back for a franchise standpoint in 2-3 years to be a playoff team.

  37. 37 Anders said at 10:24 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Why would you have Roseman gone?

  38. 38 BobSmith77 said at 10:26 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    He’s there largely because of his ties to Reid. Give his personnel and draft moves a mixed grade overall (C-/C) at best since he arrived. If Reid goes, Roseman should go too.

  39. 39 Anders said at 10:50 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    So outside of Watkins/Jarrett. What top picks have been bad?
    Has his moves to pay McCoy, Jackson, Herremans. Cole, NA, Babin and Jenkins been bad moves? Has his move to trade Kolb for DRC and 2nd round pick (that became Kendricks) been a bad move?

  40. 40 BobSmith77 said at 10:55 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Yeah they Eagles picked the wrong guy to sign in Nnadmi. Babin’s been mixed overall if you get away from the impressive sacks totals. Jenkins too. His drafts overall have been mixed and the Eagles aren’t getting the impact they need from them to help out or the depth that would help them. This team is incredibly thin at several positions and the draft results are a key part of that.

  41. 41 Ben Hert said at 11:44 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    This teams problems stem from the field, not paper. Is this team as talented as we thought it was at the beginning of the year? Hell no, but its no where near as devoid of talent as those who blame Roseman think. This is a SOLID football team, but the coaches have lost the team, not the GM.

  42. 42 BobSmith77 said at 11:52 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    What was their upside? 9 wins? 10 wins? Coaches are the reasons why some of the older players on defense including Babin, Cole, and Nnamdi are under performing? No one said it was a team devoid of talent

  43. 43 Anders said at 4:36 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    2), we havnt had a true franchise QB since shipping McNabb.
    3) the Eagles we knew for a decade died with Jim Johnson.

  44. 44 D3FB said at 3:01 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    It was obvious that the Eagles were going to have a down season after losing such a critical piece of the origination… Please come back Christina Lurie.

  45. 45 Gary said at 4:51 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Apathy is the worst feeling a fan can have. I haven’t listened to the podcast yet (going to right now), but I feel like the fact that you and Jimmy were even laughing tells me you’re headed there.

  46. 46 Insler said at 7:07 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Albert Einstein once said that the definition of Insanity is: “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.

    I guess the Eagles are insane!

    Joking aside what can the Eagles do to get at least a couple of more wins
    because as it seems the cant beat a Junior high team let a lone a
    league team

    Tommy thoughts?

  47. 47 Anders said at 7:14 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    We just fired our DC mid season (never done that before under AR). AR/MM actually changed the play book to a more quick passing game and the offense still couldnt move the ball well. Right now the insanity is thinking Vick can get it done here. (Also having maybe the 2nd worst OL in the NFL does not help the offense at all)

  48. 48 Julescat said at 7:46 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    I would venture to guess that the Eagles won’t win another game in the Andy Reid era

  49. 49 Ark87 said at 11:18 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    I’d take that bet, unless you think Reid is getting fired within the next 2 weeks, then that’s a distinct possibility. Law of averages say we will play a decent game when the opponent just comes in and lays an egg then voila… a win.

  50. 50 Corry Henry said at 7:50 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    What happens when the Stoppable Force meets the Movable Object? Apparently, the Stoppable Force takes a massive dump on the field in New Orleans.

  51. 51 TommyLawlor said at 9:21 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Thanks for the laugh.

  52. 52 bdbd20 said at 7:51 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    I belive AR changed on or around 9/21/10, when he announced that Vick was the new starting QB. Kolb was no longer injured and lost his job. It showed that doing all the right things (Kolb) was no longer the Eagle way. We were going in a direction of instant gratification. I always feared that this thing would come full circle and it has. Vick had a magical run in 2010, but I believe Andy sacrificed the future on that day. Just my opinion.

  53. 53 ChaosOnion said at 8:53 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Which team has the worse O-line, ARI or the Eagles? Kolb would be out of football right now (he might be anyway with detached ribs, ick) playing behind this line with all these injuries.

  54. 54 bdbd20 said at 9:26 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    That’s not the point. In the early years, players were rewarded for working hard and doing the right things. All of a sudden, a player loses his job due to injury. I thought it set a bad example for the rest of the guys.

  55. 55 BobSmith77 said at 9:42 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    That’s largely a popular myth and players in the NFL loses their starting job to injury. Vick has struggled since the end of the ’10 season but I have a really hard time believing this team would have been better off with Kolb.

  56. 56 Ark87 said at 9:47 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    In general I think it happened when we went into “retool” mode and really didn’t have good drafts to back it up, particularly on the defensive side of the ball. We really cleaned house man, and nobody to fall back on. So we had to go F/A crazy. Suddenly we find ourselves without an identity. There is nothing left of that team that went to a bunch of championships and made a trip to the superbowl.

  57. 57 Kevin_aka_RC said at 9:04 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Dallas has a legit top 10 defense (may be top 5)
    DeMarcus Ware vs. King Dunlap
    Jay Ratliff (if healthy) vs. Dallas Reynolds
    Anthony Spencer vs. Demetress Bell

    This is not the game to start Foles.

  58. 58 Obed Torres said at 9:10 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Given our RZ prowess this is not the game to start Vick either.

  59. 59 ceteris_paribus1776 said at 9:10 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Dallas is going to physically abuse this offensive line.

  60. 60 Mac said at 10:19 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    This is the game to start MM at QB let him deal with his shitty playcalling

  61. 61 Obed Torres said at 9:09 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    It is clear that the O-line is the worst unit on the team. That said, If we are moving the ball acceptably but the problem lies in the RZ and in scoring range, the blame is not solely there.

    Last night if Vick holds on to the ball on the opening drive there is a reasonable chance we can get 3 points. The throw to Celek later in the Q was a bad decision and a bad throw.

    In the first Q those swings were worth 10-17 points. The team is struggling and our starting QB cost us that to start the road game. And the reasoning to sticking with him is that our rookie QB [who will likely not be worse in the RZ and is accustomed to playing behind a horrid O-line in College] would fail? We know what we have, and it is a QB who is incapable of making the plays we need in the RZ. We are not going to ruin him any more than his college line did.

    I don’t follow your logic Tommy.

  62. 62 Ark87 said at 9:21 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Yeah at some point you have to say, OK, yes the line is bad, and game plan around that. No teams have everything, if you want to win, you have to find a way to succeed in spite of your deficiencies.

    On Foles I’m torn. Vick is taking a tremendous beating for his team and he just keeps getting back up. He seems to be one of the few people that care. He handled himself flawlessly after the game. I love the guy, but I said it before and I’ll say it again: The combination of Mike Vick with this O-line and MM’s play calling simply is not functional. It’s unfortunate that Vick becomes the fall guy because in no way is this all his fault, or even 50% his fault. I still think he can play in this league, just not this team.

    We’re stuck with MM I think….the O-line in theory can’t get much worse if we just took a bunch of guys off the street but it’s unlikely that they as a collective unit will be getting benched. It just leaves Mike. Like I said, tons of respect in a lot of way for him, and I think he is a fine qb, his skill set just doesn’t fit well in this particular (very bad) situation.

  63. 63 Ark87 said at 9:10 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Good show on H2H Tommy. It really does help. I think we’re going to need you and Kempski for the next few years…and please don’t go killing people (unless it’s Bell or Babin….then go ahead and take one for the team)…we need you to keep US from killing people!

  64. 64 ceteris_paribus1776 said at 9:22 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Re: Tommy’s podcast about getting rid of Reid and fans not realizing that when alot of teams get rid of coaches they go through significant rough patches. I think fans absolutely understand that. I think what fans also understand is that the same problems have plagued Andy Reid teams for almost a decade now and they aren’t getting better. In fact, his teams are regressing.

    Fans are sick and tired of mediocrity and want wholesale change. Reid doesn’t work anymore and while it’s certainly no guarantee that the next guy will, there is also the chance that he does. We know what we have in Reid teams: undiciplined, under-achieving teams that cannot beat the best teams in the league. Andy Reids record against .500+ teams is not good at all.

  65. 65 Christopher Miller said at 9:27 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    I get the that there is no point to firing Reid now but I sure hope Lurie has begun paying attention to potential successors, and preferably not a retread. Time for an innovator.

  66. 66 Ark87 said at 11:54 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    His biggest task is picking a GM to pick a coach for him. Howie is a great business guy, getting contracts done, managing the cap, organizing his scouts, etc, but the understanding was clear: Andy is the head personnel honcho. I don’t think Howie has the football chops to reboot this franchise. So Lurie has to find the GM who can.

  67. 67 BobSmith77 said at 9:48 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    When is the last time this team won a regular season game that really mattered? Got embarrassed in the Falcons game and beat last night by the Saints.

    Last year the Pats could have hung 50 on them until they pulled back the horses & Lynch ran over them in Seattle. In 2010, they lost both the Vikings game (dominated) and the Dallas game. In 2009, they got embarrassed in the final game of the season vs. Dallas.

    You can argue that they won some tough games down the stretch in 2009 but I would argue that the last time this team really won when they had their backs to the wall/really mattered during the regular season was the season finale in ’08 when they crushed the Cowboys and got a lot of help to sneak into the playoffs.

    Normally I think Eagles’ fans are the most knee-jerk reactionaries around but they are right this time in calling for the coach’s head and wholesale change after the season is over.

  68. 68 ian_no_2 said at 9:51 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Vick v. Foles: I don’t know if someone has said this before, but Vick is always talked about as injury-prone, and I get the feeling Reid is eyeing a one or two game injury to give Foles his chance. That way there isn’t all the second-guessing about benching Vick and then whether to bench Foles if he underperforms. Like others, Gary Cobb (whom I often like) was writing columns about how McNabb should be benched, and then immediately criticized Reid when he was benched. Andy’s problem is that Vick hasn’t been good enough to carry the team and the bad OL, making most of his mistakes with turnovers and not seeing open receivers, but he’s stayed healthy so putting in Foles would increase the coach’s pressure. In this situation, the talk would be that he would be blaming Vick for the awful OL performance.

  69. 69 H_Manders said at 9:57 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    I am listening to your podcast… Many good points.

    Just, concerning Vick, I think he is now in a lose lose situation. If he does not attempt the pass to Celek he would be blamed for not trying. Sometimes, I think that he at this point has no clue what he can do to make things go better… and sometimes just hopes for the best. And hopes that the string of bad luck is over… on occasion he just sounds/looks lost as if he is thinking: “what else can I do that might actually work?” Vick simply looks (and sounds) shot…

    I mean even today, with this O-line, it does not matter of the QB recognizes the blitz. The O-line is so incredibly bad that the QB cannot even guess which defender will probably come in free (on the overload blitzes (6 against the empty backfield)) – something needed to at least have a chance for a play other than a one-step-toss-the-ball-away. Can you blame him for hearing footsteps after he has been pounded for half the game?

    I mean, NOBODY is making bale out plays on offense – sole exception McCoy and some Vick escapes. NOBODY is making the right play calls. Even tonight, if Gruden and Jaws are to be believed, much of the success of McCoy running was the result of Vick AUDIBLING out of the plays (tells you about the atrocious playcalling), and into run plays. How many times has Vick been baled out by his WR’s? I cannot think of (m)any plays this season…

    Yes, Vick has made many mistakes, and he has made some today as well. But at this point, I do not see him as the biggest problem at all. I would rank him amongst the bottom right now, as far as problems go…

  70. 70 47_Ronin said at 11:03 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    RE: Vick RZ int
    On that play, Maclin was in the slot on the right in single coverage. On the replay I didn’t see a safety in the middle. I thought the better (higher %) option would have been to throw to Maclin on a slant. The LB was all over Celek making that a difficult pass (also, the LB probably got away with a hold, but that is still a difficult play). It didn’t appear that Vick even looked to Maclin (I’m wondering if the 6′- Vick was able to see him?!?)

  71. 71 BobSmith77 said at 10:02 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Season = over. If the Eagles had won last night, they would be the hunt but this team isn’t going 6-2 or 7-1 over their final 8 games.

  72. 72 ceteris_paribus1776 said at 10:43 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    6-2 won’t do it. They’ll need 10 wins, and with another conference loss that may not be enough. Next conference loss all but eliminates them since 7-5 would be the best they could achieve in conference.

  73. 73 Ark87 said at 11:01 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    10 wins could be good enough to tie the Giants…and that would involve beating them in the head to head for the sweep. The conference record is shot….wild card is out of the picture. The only hope is that the giant fall apart while we get it together and sweep the division. Very unlikely that BOTH of those things will happen but…pretty much the only path to the post-season.

  74. 74 BobSmith77 said at 10:06 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Vick vs Foles is like arguing over what the curtains should look like when there is a gaping hole in the roof let water coming pouring in. Vick has this shortfalls (biggest one right now might be that he simply doesn’t have the same es capability or raw open field speed to really scare teams) but this is more on the OL and the puzzling play-calling.

  75. 75 Ark87 said at 10:25 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Thought of the Day: To think, we could have let Babin go get gored running with the bulls! What were we thinking!?

  76. 76 Matthew Verhoog said at 11:33 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    I think dealing with the Spanish Bulls running game could do nothing but help.

  77. 77 P_P_K said at 10:42 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    I actually feel sorry for Andy Reid. He has been a good coach for the Eagles, maybe even a great coach. He developed a strong culture of winning football over a decade plus, with numerous post-season wins and only two losing season.

    Like a card player sticking around for too long, he has overplayed his time at the table. I wish he would have retired a year or two ago and gotten out while he was still ahead. Yea, he’ll get other offers once he is canned by Lurie, but he’ll leave Philly with his professional tail between his legs, as well as a damaged personal life.

  78. 78 Matthew Butch said at 10:49 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    Marty needs to be fired. His playcalling in the redzone was TERRIBLE. Constant empty back sets, constant plays that took away half the field (like the pick 6 playcall).

  79. 79 eagles2zc said at 10:55 AM on November 6th, 2012:

    That sucked indeed. I feel sorry for the players that are still fighting, like DeJax and Shady. At least there’s basketball now to divert my attention from this debacle of a season

  80. 80 Crus57 said at 12:46 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    So, it turns out Ronnie Brown was actually running a prototype of the 2012 Eagles redzone offense last year.

  81. 81 Brett Smith said at 12:54 PM on November 6th, 2012:


    Ha ha ha!

  82. 82 Antonio Reyna said at 12:47 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    Tommy, Do you still remember the awful years before Andy got here? why are these people so obsessed with firing Reid. Lets look at some teams that have pulled the trigger, look at Tampa for example, got rid of Tony Dungy and got Grudden and look at them now. Look at the Raiders, got rid of Grudden and what happened? Cowboys got rid of Jimmy Johnson and still suck. I rather give Andy Reid another chance to fix this thing than have a winning season or two with another coach. I really dont wanna go back to the Rich K. years.

  83. 83 Iskar36 said at 1:09 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    It’s no longer 1999-2004. At some point, the success he had in those seasons is no longer relevant. He is coming off a pathetic 8-8 season, and this year, you could argue that we can only wish for the kind of excitement that season brought with it. AR is simply no longer an above average coach. He is very much average, and the trend is going in the wrong direction. You have to trust your evaluators to find the right coach for next year, but you can’t stick with mediocre that is not good enough to win a superbowl simply because you fear the potential of the worst outcome. There is also the potential to find a good coach who will succeed.

  84. 84 Antonio Reyna said at 3:28 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    history has shown that the majority of the time it gets worse. I just want to have a good season, I want a very productive seasons. I still Bleed Green, and the season hasn’t ended and something inside of me tells me that Andy is going to turn it around.

  85. 85 Iskar36 said at 1:17 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    From Jeff McLane on Twitter:
    “I’m reporting that the #Eagles gave GM Howie Roseman a 4-to-5 year contract extension when Joe Banner stepped down: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/177489271.html …”

    Wow… I know we are excited about the potential of this years draft, but has he really done enough to have earned a 4-5 year extension? Especially considering that the extension was signed in the offseason, we didn’t even have a good opportunity to see these rookies play much yet. I just don’t see the logic of extending him for that long right now with his mixed bag of success.

  86. 86 Songbird Rescue Cat said at 1:44 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    Assuming his contract is guaranteed $, and I have no idea if GM contracts are structured that way or not, if he were fired at the end of the season it would only impact Lurie’s profit.

    Roseman has made or been a part of some horrible decisions (ignoring offensive line in 2010, Jaquawn Jarrett, Casey Matthews, the large number of “misses” in 2010 and 2011), if he really engineered the Kolb trade he deserves some credit. At the start of 2011 we were also pretty happy about his FA moves. The 2012 draft would certainly appear to be his best out of the 3 years, but only time will tell in that regard. The best picks seem to be Bryce Brown, Brandon Boykin, and Michael Kendricks. Fletcher Cox certainly hasn’t been the 2nd coming of Jerome Brown, so the jury is out on that pick, and Vinny Curry has yet to be activated despite disappointing DL play overall.

  87. 87 Ark87 said at 2:33 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    Yeah….I wonder how that will affect the outcome of this off-season. Keep in mind that we were specifically pending Reid’s extension on the results of this season. Then again Howie picked up a new job and needed a new contract to match. You wonder if Lurie built in an easy out into the contract or if even back then he intended to let Howie rebuild this franchise should Andy fail.

  88. 88 BobSmith77 said at 2:51 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    Oy vey.

  89. 89 Ben Hessel said at 1:34 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    How about we skip out on hiring a coach and go after BDawk and Ray Lewis as alternating Pre-Game Speaker and In-Game Motivator? Each one will eventually find his speaking niche within the organization, and come playoff time, they will work together and act as a unified Super Speaker.

  90. 90 BobSmith77 said at 2:51 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    What about Tony Robbins instead?

  91. 91 izzylangfan said at 2:59 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    OK so we wont change Reid or Vick this year. But next year both are gone. I’m OK taking a chance on Foles. Vick was always a great athlete but never a great quarterback. In fact the first 10 games of 2010 was the only time he showed anything but running ability. But Gruden hinted at the key question during the Monday night telecast. Who are we going to get that is better than Reid?

  92. 92 Mac said at 3:09 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    Personally, I don’t think anyone is a lock to be better than Reid. To rebuild an organization you need a HC who is an up and comer, who has a network and can draw in other good young talented coaches to work with him. In my opinion the best days of Reid also happened to coincide with Jim Johnson (may he rest in peace) and Brad Childress as coordinators. Marty has been ok overall, but the DC has been a mess since Johnson.

    Who from this coaching staff do you keep?

  93. 93 Cal Setar said at 3:07 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    Mike Vick deserves all the credit in the world for taking the beating he does and still giving it everything he’s got game in and game out. That offensive line would get most QB’s, Nick Foles included, decapitated by the second quarter.

    The problem seems to be that Vick’s “best” is no longer good enough. He makes poor pre-snap reads, slow post-snap reads and thus has an incredible propensity for turnovers. Combine that with his failing physical skills and you could very well say time, and the league, has passed him by.

  94. 94 NoDecaf said at 3:22 PM on November 6th, 2012:

    Andy looks beaten.