Where Are the TEs?

Posted: September 23rd, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 154 Comments »

Chip Kelly used TEs quite a bit at Oregon. He came to Philly and the first free agent he signed was James Casey. Kelly used a 2nd round pick on Zach Ertz. He already had Brent Celek, Clay Harbor, Emil Igwenagu and Derek Carrier on the roster. That was a lot of firepower at TE and it appeared to be a key part of the offense.

3 weeks into the season, the Eagles are not featuring TEs. Casey has only played a handful of snaps all year. Ertz is a regular part of the offense, but isn’t starting or playing significant snaps. He and Brent Celek each have 4 catches on the season. This isn’t the offense we expected. What’s going on?

One of Chip Kelly’s biggest strengths is his adaptability. At New Hampshire his early offenses were built on RB Jerry Azumah. Once he left, Kelly built them around QB Ricky Santos. Oregon’s offense had all sorts of different players and looks. Big backs like Jonathan Stewart and LeGarrette Blount thrived just like small backs LeMichael James and Kenjon Barner. There were small TEs like Dante Rosario and big ones like Colt Lyerla. The same is true for WRs and other offensive weapons. Kelly always adapted the offense to his players and found the way to use them wisely.

Kelly didn’t know what he had in Philly. He watched tape and studied the players, but as he always likes to say…you don’t know what you’ve got until you get out on the field and you get a chance to coach them.

Kelly admitted the other day that Brent Celek and Jason Avant have played better than he expected. Rather than stick with his original plans, Kelly has rewarded the veterans by keeping them on the field. They’re playing well. This also is a good lesson to the young players on the roster. You earn snaps. It doesn’t matter if you’re a high pick or a pricey free agent. The best players will play. If you’re not on the field, it is your job to be so good in practice that the coaches feel obligated to play you.

I also wonder if the early season success of Shady McCoy is a factor. Right now Kelly is playing a lot of 11 personnel. That is 1 RB, 1 TE and 3 WRs. This spreads the defense out, leaving lots of running room. The defense responds with the Nickel look (4-2-5 or 3-3-5). That weakens them in stopping the run. Kelly also has good blockers with his 11 personnel. Celek is a good blocker. Avant and Cooper are very good blockers. Even DeSean Jackson is blocking well this year.

Shady is on pace to set the NFL rushing record. He projects to 2107 yards (record is 2105). Clearly the running game is working.

The passing game worked very well in the first couple of weeks. Protection breakdowns and sloppy play by Vick hurt the passing game last Thursday. Will that be enough to force Kelly to make changes? Not yet, I don’t think.

The Chiefs had the pass rushers to pressure Vick while also having the cover guys to do a solid job on Jackson. Not all teams can do that. Kelly will certainly tweak some things, but my guess is that he’ll stick with the current look for now.

Kelly will eventually use Casey and Ertz more. There will come a point when the offense needs to shift to different looks. I also expect Damaris Johnson to play more down the line. The Eagles are just 3 games into the season. You don’t use all your looks and ideas this soon. You need to be able to adjust down the line. Defenses will adjust to the Eagles current group. KC already showed that press coverage can take away the WR screens. There will be other wrinkles by defenses. At some point, Kelly will shift to more TEs or maybe a 4 WR look. He always has a counter-move to what defenses want to do.

There is no reason to be down on Casey, Ertz or Johnson right now. Casey isn’t pouting. He’s playing well on STs. Ertz already has 2 catches of more than 20 yards this year. Clay Harbor has 3 in his career. Ertz is sloppy as a blocker, but there is no lack of effort. His technique needs work. Adjusting to the speed of the NFL is also an issue since most of his blocks come in space. Johnson isn’t getting on the field much on offense. He has been solid on STs, aside from his muff the other night. Johnson is averaging 26.5 yards per KOR so far. That’s a good figure. He’s not had enough chances as a PR to do much.

Right now Vick is 10th in the NFL in passing yards and 8th in passer rating. Jackson is 2nd in receiving yards. Shady is the leading rusher and has more yards than all but 8 teams. Kelly has the star players playing well. He has done well with the big issues. Figuring out a better way to mix in role players will happen over time.

By the end of the season, it will be interesting to see how the offense has changed, as well as which players emerged over time and which ones didn’t.


154 Comments on “Where Are the TEs?”

  1. 1 GEagle said at 1:16 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    good stuff LAWman..

    I thought not seeing the TE was because Kelly broke his playbook into 4 phases. Phase one we do this and by the 4th games teams will adjust, so in phase two we introduce something different..Blythe time teams adjust to phase two, we shift gears and implement phase 3…rinse wash and repeat. 3TE obviously aren’t a part of Phase 1, but I wonder if withthe team struggling! and having 11 days off, Kelly speeds up the process and implements some of phase 2 for the Broncos game…or will he think our odds are low in the broncos game, so why not save it for the giants???
    just my personal Hypothesis… but the TEs are Coming sooner or later!

    Everyone seems to be talking about trading for Browns WR(they already have a real offer on the table for Gordon), but if they are Truley having a Fire sale on offense, then Joe Thomas(28yr old), any chance we can make him a RG?…Jordan Cameron is the only weapon of theirs worth giving up valuable draft picks for. trading for Gordon is just a short sighted knee jerk reaction

  2. 2 A_T_G said at 3:01 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Why save it for the Giants? They can’t stop anyone from doing anything, it seems.

  3. 3 BlindChow said at 3:07 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    For one, the Giants are in the division…

  4. 4 GEagle said at 3:10 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Yup…we all know we aren’t winning any wildcard births this year…as in NO SHOT IN HELL. So the only race that matters is the division title, and in that race we are only 1 game out

  5. 5 Tom33 said at 3:15 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Oddly, not that it matters, but if the season ended today the Eagles would be the #6 seed in the NFC. Sad but true.

  6. 6 GEagle said at 4:16 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    “So your saying there’s a chance,,,,” 🙂
    We just need to get thru this game, and then we can go boots to asses on the Midgets defense. JPP is whack, prince amakamura is more Joker than prince! their safeties make Nate look COMPETANT and Chung look like a probowler. and shady will tap dance all over those LBs

    Redskins defense is even worse. How can a team with a QB on a rookie contract, paying chump change to its young stud RB, have a pathetic defense and be maxed out under the cap? Who the hell are they They paying? I’m Ready to poach the hell out of Orakpo at the end of the year. how can they keep him? RG3 and Morris are two and 3years away from huge pay days. Their secondary is a joke. They will need to replace London. They have No money and Orakpo will require a significant raise, while they have plenty of holes to fill…he is ripe for the poaching…jimmy graham might play is way out of NO as well(just a situation to keep an eye on)

  7. 7 anon said at 5:02 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    They’ve had a $13mm cap penalty every year. Though you could ask the Eagles the same question, though they pay their QB only slightly more.

  8. 8 GEagle said at 5:05 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Yeah but we are way under the cap…I would be pissed if we sucked while being maxed out under the cap like them

  9. 9 BreakinAnklez said at 9:50 AM on September 24th, 2013:

    They are still paying for Fat Al…lol

  10. 10 GEagle said at 3:09 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Because the Giants game would be the 5th game. I think Chip broke everything up in Quarters..if I m right the question becomes do you stay the course, or do you speed up the process any implement phase two now that you have 11 days, or do unjust stay the course and wait til the giants game…like Tom says above, you don’t just show everything right away. you need tosave counters for the course of a season….coaches can’t be as skittish and waiver from the plan, over reacting like we do…maybe Chip stays the course, maybe I’m completely wrong about the course…but coaches break up evaluations into quarters, so it’s not far fetched to think Chip did the same with the implementation of the playbook.

  11. 11 A_T_G said at 4:52 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Yeah, I understood. But when you are 1-2, you can’t pass up a chance to make fun of the 0-3 rivals.

  12. 12 jshort said at 7:00 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Actually if you go by the Billy Davis standings method, we’re 1 1/2 – 2 . Therefore we can loose one road game and win one and still be 3-3

  13. 13 GEagle said at 1:25 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    11 days I think our Offense will light up the Broncos and hang 40 in a traditional, last offense with the balls win type of shoot out. Expect an oline that was embarrassed to respond in a big way??and Denver won’t have the LBs and Secondary that KC had….Who’s Dline can get more pressure on the opponent? Their QB needs to be significantly hit more then ours for us to not be completely embarrassed in Denver

  14. 14 ACViking said at 2:12 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Manning’s a master of the “no huddle-do nothing” offense that McCoy installed in SD this off season. And which Rivers ran to perfection against the Eagles.

    What’s the counter to Manning doing what Rivers did 8 days ago, i.e., bleeding the clock, dinking-and-dunking downfield, and occasionally running the ball?

    That is, how to keep Manning from controlling the ball for 40 minutes?

    Pressure? Manning’s generally been hard to sack during his career.

    Third-down stops? Welker v. Boykin. Tough challenge.

    Turnovers? Sure. That’d be great, along with a special-teams TDs.

    But platitudes aside . . . what should Davis and Kelly do?

  15. 15 Mac said at 2:25 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Acquire Asante Samuel.

  16. 16 BlindChow said at 3:03 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Yeah, we got rid of a soft-zone specialist because we were supposed to be playing press-man with our new press-man corners, ended up playing mostly soft zone anyway, then ultimately released our press-man corners; now we end up continuing to play soft zone.

    Not that Asante is without his faults; I get a kick every time a running back runs past him into the end zone against Atlanta…

  17. 17 Anders said at 3:19 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    actually Castillo got rid of Samuel because he wanted to play press man, Davis preferes to mix it up, but I still doubt he would like Samuel “worst tackler in the NFL” as CB

  18. 18 GermanEagle said at 3:21 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I still take him over any of our DB’s…

  19. 19 GEagle said at 4:07 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Hell no…I want to get as far away from soft defenders as possible….Peanut Tillman on prime time kills me every time. that’s how a man should play corner

  20. 20 Mac said at 4:27 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Yeah, the little things (like tackling) drove me nuts toward the end of his time in Philly.

    There is no denying that he is Peyton Manning’s kryptonite though.

  21. 21 Tom33 said at 2:38 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    score a lot of points.

  22. 22 Anders said at 2:47 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Do not turn the ball, no stupid penalties, score TDs in the red zone and hope to win a 45-42 or something similar

  23. 23 GEagle said at 3:01 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    You have one chance…Constant Crazy pressure. I’m talking about in your face with in the two second mark, type of pressure….you have No shot in hell of dropping back in coverage. Literally no point in dropping 8 back..

    Cary Might contain his man, brad might contain his man, Boyin might contain his man, Kendricks might contain Julian Thomas…but ALL of them won’t win their matchups(if any), and all it takes is one chink in the armor for Peyton to shred you. The only chance you have is immediate constant in your face, hard hitting pressure…SCRAP that two gap crap and let the young DAWGS Loose!!!
    Your only other chance is Offense. Some say that the best defense is a good offense and that will have to be the case more then ever. Offense needs to answer every single time that Denver scores..if we get behind we are done because we can’t count on the stops we need…but it’s not completely out of the question to see shady run all over Denver and our offense keeping up with theirs…Their defense right now is not KC, heck they probably aren’t even the charges with Von none champ out…Our BIG 3 need to have monster games and that all starts with the Oline. Vick is horrific when under pressure. he won’t patiently wait out a storm without making mistakes and fueling the avalanche..
    ..He can’t help himself from trying to make something happen, instead of understanding that you need to whether the storm and minimalist the damage, by securing the ball and going down without fumbling, or consistently throwing it away, or even take the sack without trying to foolishly make something happen…the Oline has to be dominant. Anything short of dominance and Vick goes from awesome to disaster???that’s just reality

  24. 24 anon said at 3:40 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Vinny Curry!

  25. 25 BlindChow said at 3:06 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Do a better job of disguising our blitzes. Tennessee did a good job of it on Sunday. Couldn’t hurt at least.

    And hopefully Denver won’t have OL powerhouses like King Dunlap to stand in the way of the pass rush…

  26. 26 GEagle said at 3:56 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Blitz disguise is crucial both Davis and the LBs need to be significantly better then they were against SD. Hopefully we learned a lesson in how to be more patient pre snap against a QB winding down the playclock

  27. 27 Stephen Stempo said at 6:10 PM on September 23rd, 2013:


    Why? Because Manning is going to score anyway. If so let him score quick and/or hit him as much as you can. Dropping 8 is a recipe for long maddening drives. If you blitz you have a chance of maybe stip sacking or forcing an INT (long shot). Dropping 8 gives you even less chance for that. Let’s be honest our secondary can’t sniff those weapons on Denver. Dropping 8 does them no favors.

  28. 28 eagleyankfan said at 2:34 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    wow. that is definitely a glass half full attitude. Kudos. I Denver is the best D they’ll be facing so far…I hope you’re right.

  29. 29 Tom33 said at 2:37 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Eagles on a quasi-bye week and Denver on a short week = unjustifiable optimism from me too. On the other hand, I kept waiting the last couple of years for things to come together too, so what do I know?

  30. 30 jshort said at 7:09 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Was thinking the same as you. Was also thinking maybe Manning gets knocked out tonight. but would rather we beat the poop out of him.

  31. 31 GEagle said at 2:50 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I just get the impression that this will be one of those maddening seasons that they play really well when we supposedly have no chance, and break our hearts when they are supposed to win. I have a feeling we will do some really nice thins in Denver, but that doesn’t mean I give us much chance at winning….it wasn’t so much of a prediction(bad wording)..It was more of what type a game it would NEED to be for us to have any chance…I don’t think this matchup allows much grey area…we will either play surprisingly well with our backs up against the wall and make it a battle! or we will get completely embarrassed…..
    AC: this is a great test to find out what if any thing our ILBs have learned since being out classed by Rivers pre snap. No shot we win that battle against he Sheriff, but we have to be much better in disguise, audibles, and in our assignments to even stand a chance in this game. Our ILBs will lose to is battle, the question is by how much? If they don’t show much improvement from the chargers game, we get blown to smithereens…quintessential Sink or swim game…Risk of embarrassment can be the best motivator

  32. 32 jshort said at 7:15 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Who was giving us much chance against the skins? I recorded the last two games. Won’t do that this Sunday, so we’ll win.

  33. 33 GermanEagle said at 4:27 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    The Chiefs D is better than the Broncos’ who give up 385 yards per game (that is before tonight’s game against the powerhouse offense of the Raiders).

  34. 34 eagleyankfan said at 4:45 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    You think so? A lot of intangibles there. One is, Denver is scoring over 40 points a game. How much D are they actually playing the second half? KC has played the Jags/Cowgirls and Eagles. We’re not talking offensive powerhouses there either. Denver did beat the defending SB champs. Hmm, it is tough because both have played wimps to far….

  35. 35 GermanEagle said at 5:29 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Both the Eagles and Cowboys have very good offenses. Trust me, the Chiefs D is legit.

  36. 36 Anders said at 6:08 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    yea, but doubt the Chiefs can use jedi mind tricks on every team to get there PR to muff a punt or the center to have two fumbled snaps

  37. 37 Stephen Stempo said at 6:06 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    KC has a very good D. Have had for a few seasons now. Very good secondary. People see the chiefs of the last few years and just assumed the whole team sucks when it was more just the offense.

  38. 38 BlindChow said at 1:26 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    ESPN had this tidbit about the Giants-Panthers game:

    The Panthers also took advantage of [LB Chase] Blackburn’s knowledge of the Giants. “When you have a guy who knows the other team and you sit there and you listen to him when he is watching tape, before the play even happens he calls the play,” Rivera said.

    Explains a few things…

  39. 39 ACViking said at 1:54 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Nice work, BC

  40. 40 bdbd20 said at 2:00 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    While I think there is some merit in that point, I do believe execution trumps everything. The Giants are just a bad team right now. The may turn things around, but that winning streak back in the 2011 season may have delayed a much-needed rebuilding.

  41. 41 ACViking said at 2:13 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    a Lombardi-esque answer

  42. 42 GEagle said at 3:13 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Familiarity will always help on some level, and every advantage counts but T he giants situation is much worse then ours in that Chase really knows what they are doing because giants run the same offense they have been running for years???our former players and coaches are familiar any m sure it helps! but they don’t know our players in our offense the way Chase knew against the dwarfs

  43. 43 ACViking said at 1:52 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Re: Those Missing Lots of Action . . . Vincent Curry

    T-Law (et al.):

    On the topic of quasi-MIAs . . .

    Given that Kelly’s directed Davis to build a 2-gap defense, do you see the coaching staff’s decision to have Curry bulk up to be a D-lineman, rather than lose about 5 pounds to play OLB, as (i) the right decision, or (ii) a disappointing one? [Yes, a big question based on 3 games!!!]

    In the long term, Curry might be have been the best answer at ROLB because of the explosive first step. Then again, maybe not.

    Graham’s been mostly a bull-rush guy. He doesn’t seem have the “quickness” of a Tamba Hali to bend the edge — or maybe Graham’s saving it. IDK.

    But Curry’s first-step is the best one I’ve seen from an interior lineman since Keith Millard played for the Vikings in the mid-80s.

    Would Curry’s first-step productively translate to OLB, making him a Tamba Hali-lite?

    There remains the question of Curry’s pass-coverage ability. Graham’s still learning.

    And I know that Curry was familiar to the Eagles’ new staff when the decision to bulk him up was made.

  44. 44 Neil said at 2:00 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    There was a piece in March or April I believe where Kapadia or McManus talked to him about it. Curry said the coaching staff hadn’t told him to do anything.

    Tommy’s review said something about Curry playing OLB on some 3rd down play, so it’s on the coaches’ radar. I think they really want to see if he can become a decent 2gapper, so he could be an every down interior player that they could unleash at times in the base defense. But if he can’t, they might play him as OLB in the base and DT/DE in the nickel.

  45. 45 ACViking said at 2:15 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    OLB in the base . . . DT/DE in the nickel.

    That is a damned capital idea.

    The odd-man out would be Graham, it seems.

  46. 46 GEagle said at 3:29 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    What are the advantages of going two gap 3-4 as opposed to 4-3U that Chip values so much? He didn’t demand this full blown two gap from Aliotta so I’m having a hard time seeing what he cares about so much that he is forcing billy to not play to our most valuable young players strengths? Billy is a 4-3u guy who was groomed I’m the steelers two gap scheme, so if he is a 4-3u guy and his best young assets are gap shooters, then I have to believe that it’s Kelly’s call(Billy also dropped some hints a few times talking about just “wanting to give the boss what wants”

    Can someone give a good guess about why Chip cares so much about this micromanaging which is something I didn’t expect out of him?
    I get that he believes in making life difficult for QBs and trying confuse them. The would be predator drops more in the 3-4 so it’s a little harder for the QB to know which OLB is coming or going…and I know that from a roster building standpoint you prefer a 3-4 because you get more LBs for ST…but NO matter what scheme you decide to run, we need a serious athletic upgrade opposite BARWIN who can drop and Rush anyway…You can chose to drop your predator more often even if you lineup 4-3u….so I don’t understand why instead of grooming better single gap young players(which happens to be the strength of two first round picks and a second rounder), we are waiting a year drastically changing the way they play the game of football…ATleast someone tell me the advantage to this transition because the more I research it! the more I see no justifiable reasons to why C OX, Thorton,Curry,Graham,Cole are two gapping? If you really wanted to two gap, you should have been seriously committed to overhauling the Dline. It was an awesome draft for big body NT , and DEs…you needed to do much better then Logan and Soap if you were so determined not to run a 4-3U

  47. 47 Anders said at 3:37 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Actually Oregon shifted to 2 gap 3-4 while Kelly was HC there.

    Also remembers we are only really 2 gapping on base downs. Thre have been plenty 1 gap looks so far this year.

  48. 48 GEagle said at 3:40 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Yeah but I believe I recall Allioti Getting all this praise for implementing the hybrid these past two years or am I misinformed. Lols

  49. 49 Midnight_Greenville said at 2:05 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I think (and hope) that some of these issues are a direct result of two short weeks for practice. The extra 3 days are nice, but I think that just not having less than a typical practice week moving forward will allow CK to introduce more of his play book efficiently the rest of the season. I think we will look way better against Denver as a result of the extra time (although will still be hard pressed to beat them–Peyton May have 10 TDs). But in the following weeks I predict more week to week improvement than what we have seen so far.

  50. 50 BlindChow said at 2:55 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Denver will have a slightly shorter week, as well.

  51. 51 shah8 said at 2:06 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I’m hoping that Ertz is playable sooner rather than later. And that he’s genuinely fast.

  52. 52 ACViking said at 2:17 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Yes. Why not go 12 personnel and move Ertz into the slot against a LB?

    If the Eagles lose 2 out of the next 3, the high-level picks like Ertz, Graham, and Curry — unless the staff already sees them as blown choices — need to get on the field.

  53. 53 Anthony Hart said at 2:31 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I don’t think they need to go into full “season’s over” mode until we get our 9th loss. The Giants and Redskins both look terrible, I’ll take us over either of those teams right now. The Cowboys have a way of looking elite one week and garbage the next, this division is very open.

  54. 54 ACViking said at 5:24 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Winning . . . and playing veterans. . . but to what end?

    T-Law (and Jimmy ‘bama) believe Vick’s gone after this year.

    If so, what is Vick doing out there? Selling Kelly’s system? That doesn’t make much sense if he’s gone after ’13 — how do you sell a car with the caveat that you’re gonna show up in a couple months and repossess the tires.

    If Vick’s gone after this year, I’m just totally missing the point of the alleged meritocracy argument.

    I’ve said before, no way Ertz can compete with Avant right now — with Avant using 6+ years of know-how to look better. Same with Graham v. Cole.

    And also . . . Curry v. The World

  55. 55 Stephen Stempo said at 6:03 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I agree about Vick. Jury is still out. I think Kelly is using Vick to install the offense and really to just give him a chance. The old give someone enough rope to hang themselves trick.

    The way Vick is getting hit I don’t see him starting by week 10 anyway he’s getting up slow and limping pretty much every game.

    I think this next off-season is going to tell us what Kelly is/was planning. If they go out and draft a “system” QB who fits what Kelly wants then Vick was just a Proxy. fine. Except I don’t see that happening which is the confusing part.

    It could just be that Vick completely won the Job. I don’t have all the TC tape, and if Kelly is a man of his word and everyone was competing then you paint yourself into a corner.

    He could also just be throwing Vick to the wolves while he coaches up the younger QB’s Pederson style. I know people pretend that that isn’t how you groom young QB’s in this day and age, but I think that’s BS. Just because you have a handful of QB’s who came in and played well out of the gate doesn’t mean it’s the “only” way to do it.

  56. 56 shah8 said at 6:08 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I just had to shrug at that comment about Vick definitely being gone. Worked out that if Vick has 2010 or 2011 production, and I think he will make that sort of production, he will be resigned. Fundamentally, T-Law and Jimmy Bama just doesn’t get that Vick’s passing production isn’t particularly fungible (or that you could operate on a binary superhero or bust impression). It’s also not fungible because Vick is an important part of Shady’s productivity as well. That leads to thinking that you can afford not to sign him when you have gaping holes elsewheres on the team. I’m not sure we *have* the option of not drafting Sammy Watkins/best defensive lineman/shutdown corner (I don’t think there are any in college now?), and we will still have to resign Maclin or replace his talent as well, blah, blah, blah. Drafting a new QB is a luxury pick like Lane Johnson (I don’t really mind that pick, but we really had stronger needs elsewheres), and we had better not do it unless we’re getting 1A or 1B.

  57. 57 Anders said at 6:13 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    How is picking a QB a luxury pick when it is the most important position in the NFL?
    You either have a QB or you do not.
    Also I think Vick staying have more to do with his health than his play. Also shouldnt we draft BPA no matter the position?
    If your option is between lets say Mariota or Sammy Watkins, you take the QB when you do not have that franchise QB yet.
    I do think Bradley Roby is that potential shutdown corner.

    Last regarding Vick’s importance to Shady. We saw plenty huge rushing lanes last year with Foles in and in the preseason.

  58. 58 shah8 said at 6:30 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    A QB is a luxury pick if it’s not a pretty darn top shelf prospect on the order of Newton, Luck, or RGIII. Think Vikings in 2011. Had they forgone drafting Christian Ponder, and went with Webb all of 2011, they probably would have either had a reasonable QB or a top draft pick and gotten one of the big prospects. Or the Browns picking Brandon Weeden. What if they got Jason Campbell one year earlier, and picked one of Harrison Smith, Brian Quick, or Janoris Jenkins? In 2013 they have the option of sticking with Campbell or of picking Geno or EJ. That’s what I’m talking about here, guys, and Pete Carroll definitely understood about how drafting QB are luxury picks. He got a competent QB in Tarvaris Jackson, and stuck with him through that year–while the rest of his offense gelled up with a veteran making the calls. Picked different spots to improved, such as the OL in 2011 instead of Andy Dalton, and Bruce Irvin and Bobby Wagner in 2012. Then he picked up the smurf. Turned out the smurf can play. That smurf got to play on a good team because nobody had to compensate for a idiot rookie at QB the year before, and TJack took the beating from having the youngest OL in the league that year, I believe.

    That’s how competent player aquisition and management works. Ozzie Newsome isn’t any different.

  59. 59 Anders said at 6:37 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    You know Wilson was not Pete Carroll’s pick and Carroll didnt thought he would win the competition against Matt Flynn?

    Also why are we using the Seahawks as comparision when majority of there success is based on a 3rd round and 2 5th round picks?

    Of course im not saying we should overdraft a QB, but if we are in position to draft a good QB, we shouldnt care about Vick at all.

  60. 60 shah8 said at 6:46 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I will have a cite on whether he wasn’t Carroll’s pick. That is almost certainly not true.

    And no, Flynn was never going to win that competition long term. Flynn would have eventually lost to TJack. His lack of physical measurables is dead obvious, and Pete’s a professional. Signing Flynn was always about the guesture first and foremost. Even if Flynn only competed with TJack, he would have certainly lost his job soon enough.

    And what the hell? It’s not based on third and fifth round picks. The Seahawks, even more than they draft well, also coaches them well. Did you see that motherload of talent they had to cut?

    You don’t have to care about Vick at all. That’s your prerogative as a fan. Chip Kelly, on the other hand, has a job he’d like to keep, and it’s probably more important to think about how Howard Roseman or Chip Kelly feels about their ability to get talent more than just how much you care about having a “qb”. Nobody doubts that if the Eagles could get Bridgewater that turns out to be all that he is in exhibitions and pro-days, they would, and let Vick go. So what you *are* asking for, is for the franchise to either overdraft a QB a lá Ponder or send up a ransom of picks for the top pick. And you know? That’s not going to happen.

  61. 61 Ben Hert said at 9:10 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Excellent, excellent, and excellent point shah. Pete Carroll had the right idea in building a program. You wait for the moment to come, not force the moment. You take what you’re given and work with it. Granted, that requires good drafting, but I think we could manage to pull that off.

    I think the Redskins are the opposite side of the kind for what you’re talking about. They mortgaged everything for a QB, and squandered their resources prior to that trying to make square pegs fit in round holes. They are now a complete mess, pinning everything on RG3, and having tons of holes to fill and not resources to do it with.

  62. 62 shah8 said at 6:37 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    And Shady only played with Foles for parts of two games. Then he went out with a concussion before coming back with a distinctly uninspired effort against Washington. Try again. While he was only a rookie, he wasn’t that great with McNabb, either.

  63. 63 Anders said at 6:42 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    What about the rushing lanes for Bryce Brown?

  64. 64 shah8 said at 6:54 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Bryce Brown’s longest run between the tackles was at NO. At Carolina, he got around the corner. At Dallas, more of the same, but intermediate runs outside, and more success inside the tackle and one decent run up the middle.

    When he went up against good run-stopping teams in Cincinnati and Tampa, he didn’t really do much, because the holes aren’t there. BB needs holes a lot more than Shady does, but Shady needs a spread out field so he’s only juking defenders one at a time. Without Vick, he finds defenders with help.

  65. 65 Anders said at 6:58 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    If we stay in 11 personnel with Jackson demanding double teams, does it matter that Vick is back there? The defense will be stretched to its max anyway.

  66. 66 shah8 said at 7:02 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Think about all those stretch plays MM ran, particularly with effect in 2011. Those plays are designed to stretch the defense east to west.

    Djack stretches the field north to south.

    The stretch play works because Celek is on the other end of where Shady’s running, or running a short cross behind, and Vick is on that side. Which leaves the DE, OLB, and perhaps a CB in emergency duty facing Shady. Without Vick, Shady will have a DE that doesn’t have to mind contain, and two LBs instead of one, etc…

  67. 67 Anders said at 7:06 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Sure Vick helps Shady, but I still think Shady would have a monster year with Foles at QB.
    We do not know our draft position yet and which QBs declare, so it is very hard to predict if we could get a potential QB and really doubt ANY coach/gm is think this far ahead yet.

  68. 68 shah8 said at 7:09 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Be my guest.

  69. 69 GEagle said at 7:13 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Shady would have a monster year for sure with FOles checking down to him all day both in the pass game and FOles would rarely keep it during the option…give shady a good line and you don’t need to worry about the QBs role I the run game

  70. 70 ACViking said at 6:52 PM on September 23rd, 2013:


    If Vick remains upright for at least 15 games, and produces at somewhere between the Washington and Chiefs’ games . . . I think you’re right.

    Who replaces Vick? And if the Eagles win this year, why would you want to replace him?

    And if he were replaced — particularly with a rookie — are the fans ready for the step backwards?

    Is another Griffin-III out there? Or Luck — whose record last year had lots of that going his way.

    Russell Wilson . . . with that defense, Matt Flynn would been a winner.

    Yes, Shah8, your points are all well taken — since Vick’s the guy now.

    Kelly’s done a bit of matrimony here. Those contracts are expensive and hard to break.

  71. 71 Anders said at 6:57 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    If he plays 15 games and is good for majority of the games, he will stay, but if he only play his standard 12 games and he is more like the Chiefs, he will not be replaced no matter what and might be benched before he gets injured.

  72. 72 shah8 said at 6:57 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I’m not sure what we do if we have a QB who’s broken down, though. Then it becomes a sort of emergency and we have to make do with whatever weak option available via FA (if we can’t get a real QB in the draft).

  73. 73 GEagle said at 6:30 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Totally agree…if we are going to be bad, we should be bad while gaining experience and seasoning for our young players which at the very least we will get a better chance to evaluate…
    A lot that I don’t like with Chips decisions so far… Hopefully he knows what he is doing, because I would be lying if I said I was happy with this bogus 50-50 now vs. untrue approach that he is taking to our season…Andy tried to sell us on the bogus “retool on the fly” and it proved to be fools gold

  74. 74 GEagle said at 3:39 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    In 12 snaps, curry did more them square and Gaethers did combined in two games…
    I was told this was merit-ocracy, and nothing holds more weight than how you play in the actual games. yes it matters than at you earn it by practicing well, but you can’t be ignoring who shows up when it’s game time….I will be disgusted if Curry doesn’t get ATleast 20 snaps against pass happy Denver??the kidhad about as great of a game as you can have with 12 snaps.
    Graham also needs to by given more opportunity which would keep Barwin fresher late in games

  75. 75 anon said at 3:50 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I don’t think Curry plays well in a 2 GAP 3/4, but if we have 4 down lineman he’ll play a lot more (especially after last week). If Curry was a LB / had cover skills i think he’d play a lot as OLB.

  76. 76 GEagle said at 4:00 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Expecting manning to try and be more methodical to keep our Offense off the field instead of just trying to score as fast as he can, so I’m expecting a lot of 3rd down scenarios for our defense(that’s 10-15 plays that should go to Vinny), and then sprinkle him in for 5 snaps on first and second downs…

    I don’t care where you play him, I want him on these field on every passing situation

  77. 77 GEagle said at 7:20 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Two gapping is a joke if you are capable of living in the opponents backfield

  78. 78 Joe Minx said at 3:13 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Good article, Tommy. I have nothing to add other than I saw Lone Wolf McQuade over the weekend & immediately thought of you.

  79. 79 Tumtum said at 3:24 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I would almost expect some significant new wrinkle this week. If not because we are coming off of two loses, but because we are playing possibly the best team in the AFC.

    Even more interested to see what the defense has in store for Manning. Is Davis really planning on going blitz heavy against Manning? The execution of the blitzes to this point would get us smoked.

    Would really love to see a good effort and some forward thinking by the staff against Denver. Don’t have to win, but really need to show improvement over this past Thursday. That is a tough test when going against a certainly more rounded team than the last.

  80. 80 GEagle said at 3:32 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    You would prefer seeing is drop 8 in coverage then Blitz? We have consistently been burned by worst teams then Denver dropping 8 in coverage. ATleast blitzing had some success in two out of 3 games

  81. 81 Tumtum said at 8:59 AM on September 24th, 2013:

    If I had to choose an extreme? Yes. Peyton has consistently been better against the blitz than not. True there is probably a better chance for turnover, but odds are he is going to have a better chance at a completion when you blitz.

    We blitzed Rivers a ton. It worked not even a little.

  82. 82 Tumtum said at 12:49 PM on September 24th, 2013:

    If I have to choose between the extremes? Yes. Luckily I don’t have to. Peyton has like the best QB rating against the blitz in, like… what?… history? Guys are going to have to win 1v1 battles. Can we match V.C against that new LT somehow plz? They will have to blitz some and blitz effectively. Even if they don’t get the sack (they wont) they need to get a QB hit (probably not). Then they need to do a good job of feigning pressure and dropping out, hopefully to fool Manning (never gonna happen).

    I just hope he doesn’t set any more all time records next week. I guess he has 2 already this season.

    We are going 1-4 and it won’t be pretty.

  83. 83 Stephen Stempo said at 5:53 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Manning is going to shred us unless we hit him. Which is really hard to do since he’s so freaking smart with his release. He’s really disgustingly good. Eli and Peyton are playing different games. I Laughed out loud when the announcer last week said QB’s like Peyton couldn’t run Kelly’s offense… Manning could run any offense.

    If you don’t force Peyton to make mistakes he’s not going to make them.

  84. 84 GEagle said at 4:04 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    With the browns being in aquire draft pic mode…How is Jaabal Sheard dropping it coverage? is he a full blown OLB who you don’t need to keep a 5yard drop leash on him in coverage, or is he the Trent Cole converted DE type of OLB? They gave Kruger $60mil any invested the 6th pick in Mingo and seem like they are in Fire sale mode, wonder if it extends to some defenders?

  85. 85 808EagleFan said at 4:09 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Interested to see what the Raiders do against the Sheriff and his posse tonight. Inter-divisional game, emotional, and then a short week. Guess I’m reaching for an advantage but stranger things have happened.

    If CK does have a “quarterly plan” – interesting to see if he is the type to stick with it “because” or the type to allow situations to dictate his actions (…flexibility/forward thinking…)

    Would love to see Ertz in the slot vs LB or safety as he should have the advantage.

  86. 86 GEagle said at 4:25 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    poach Orakpo, Byrd, peanut Tillman if you are going to make me sit through two more years of Vick…if you are going to rebuild with a young QB, then I can patiently wait to develope players from the next two drafts…but you can’t just go young everywhere and deal with the growing pains of Young players if you are going to spend another two and a half seasons on Vick. I have all the patience in the world if you are going to rebuild the right way and groom a young QB, and if Chip decides to go all in for the next two years with Vick, then I Will trust Chip…..but I can’t tolerate this 50-50 all in while we rebuild approach…If Vick is going to be QB we have no time to rely on drafting and then developing stars, especially now that the offense is revealing more warts them expected….Signing a good OLB, Safety, CB would allow me to not lose my mind relying on Vick while drafting players..

    unless things turn around on Offense, we will need to replace Todd, and add skill players who can get open and also block(we lack too much speed right now)…and we already have so many improvements that we need to make on defense, so you can’t keep on this draft and develope our stars approach if you are going to make me sit through anther year of Vick…now if you want to put a young QB in, and commit to grooming him, then the draft and develope approach because we have a chance at adding the talent we need by the Ike the young QB is really ready to seriously make a post season run

  87. 87 Anders said at 4:26 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    As Tommy have said, unless Vick is playing out of this world for rest of the season, I do not see him here next year.

  88. 88 GEagle said at 4:38 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I strongly oppose to him being here this year, but if we are wasting a year in FOles and Barkleys development then I hope it’s because Chip sees something that I don’t with Vick and thinks he has a 3yr window to win with him….if Vick isn’t the QB next year then this year is a waste…even if you don’t believe FOles can be your guy! I would rather develope him further and try and get his trade value up instead of wasting a year on guy who won’t be here, in a year when we aren’t a SB Contenders….
    Don’t know what I hate more, Vick as our QB the next 3 years, or Vick keeping FOles and Barkley on the bench for a guy that won’t be here the next 3 years….very frustrating Lose/lose situation for me

  89. 89 anon said at 4:58 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    He could have a lot of games like the Jets game.

  90. 90 anon said at 4:59 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Then the question is — why didn’t you play Vick? We aren’t the browns.

  91. 91 Anders said at 6:04 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Kelly didnt knew what he had in Foles yet, so he wanted Vick back for competition.

    Competition is everything for Kelly. He does not care about age or draft round. He just want the best player there can execute his scheme. See Avant playing over younger players.
    Also see Square playing over Curry. Square executed the scheme so he got to play. After he proved he was overmatched he played Curry. Maybe after the Chiefs game, Kelly/Davis will Curry freelance a little.

  92. 92 GEagle said at 7:07 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I would rather break the bank open. Sign Orakpo, Byrd and peanut…draft a NT,WR,TE,RG….and see how far Vick, FOles!Barkley can take us…

    Orakpo,Demeco,Kendrick’s, Barwin
    Tillmen, Chung, Byrd, Cary, Boykin
    draft a NT from a big program like NT, and all your defensive problems are solved, and you can use the draft to retool the offense with athletes Chip needs to give Vick or FOles the best chance to succeed for the next two years….Tillmen buys you two, three years to draft/groom a 5th round QB on the outside, leaving high draft pics to restock the offense

  93. 93 Anders said at 7:23 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    a NT does not solve all our defense problems.

    Also what is your fascination with Cary and Chung over Wolff and B Fletcher?

  94. 94 GEagle said at 7:31 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    If you drafts NT and sign Orakpo,Byrd and Tillmen(3yr deal cut him after two), then what problems do you have left on defense?

    Cary and Bradley would compete for who starts opposite of peanut and who adds depth to the second String, while Chung and Wolff compete to start opposite Byrd.. My guess is that the Super Bowl winning CB who shutdown BOWE and will get better as the season goes on would win over Bradley, but I’m open to either winning And recognize that it would be close, although Cary is a Captain and will probably be matched up against better WR this year

  95. 95 Anders said at 7:45 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Unless we can draft Louis Nix III, I do not want any NT in next years draft. I would not mind signing Orakpo and Byrd (or TJ Ward or Chris Clemons).

    Fletcher has played better than Williams so far this season. Also Fletcher was also on Bowe against the Chiefs and didnt give up anything to him either.

    Last you know my opinion on Tillman (he isnt plural :P).

    If we manage to upgrade the safety position, I think our CBs are more than good enough. So far the real problem in coverage have been the safeties and Kendricks.

  96. 96 GEagle said at 7:55 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Agreed that Nix is the only quality NT in the draft, and the FA market doesn’t look much better..BJ raji possibly might get his is contract voided with a year left but he isn’t the player he used to be….Charles Tillman made the probowl in his 9th and 10th season and has shown no signs of declining this year, but I do agree that are CBs could be fine with much better safety play and consistent pass rush…I. Don’t see how the skins can re sign Orakpo and significantly improve their team
    Just checked Walterfootball to see if they were giving us Roby,haha, Nix, or Barr….they had us drafting AandM. WR Mike Evans in rd 1

  97. 97 Anders said at 8:03 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Walterfootball is trash.

  98. 98 BlindChow said at 8:21 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Dream Team II: This Time For Sure!

  99. 99 GEagle said at 6:54 AM on September 24th, 2013:

    Let’s never again sign top NFL players because of NNamdi…..

  100. 100 BlindChow said at 8:20 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    One advantage to someone who can run Kelly’s offense at a higher level (relatively speaking) is it helps develop the other pieces in the offense. For instance, with Barkley missing open receivers in the preseason, he wasn’t doing them any favors.

    Since the receivers too are learning Kelly’s scheme, it’s possible they are more effective with someone who can make all the throws, is mobile (assuming Kelly prefers that, all else being equal), and can demonstrate how Kelly wishes the position to be played. Then when a new QB is finally drafted and put in place, it will be a plug and play situation.

    Also, keep in mind SF looked pretty good keeping Alex Smith around, despite rebuilding. And they had no trouble getting their franchise QB (the last couple games notwithstanding). You don’t necessarily need to tank the season to get an effective QB… Though you do have to hope your scouting dept. can find the guy that can grow into one.

  101. 101 BlindChow said at 8:11 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    A lot of players (and not just QB’s) have sat on the bench learning behind veterans for a few years before playing. Yet they somehow turned out fine when they became starters… It used to be a tradition, but now it’s all “Instant Gratification This!” and “Immediate Satisfaction That!”

    Players can develop even if you don’t see it with your own eyes. Not all is lost if they’re on the sideline on Sundays…

  102. 102 Neil said at 8:39 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I think geagle’s operating under the belief that a QB gets better by playing games early in his career compared to sitting. I don’t think it’s about gratification. Certainly a debatable belief. I think Chip struck a good balance by only giving the young guy the job if he earned it.

  103. 103 Mac said at 4:30 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think this could be a 6-6 football team headed into the 12/8/13 matchup with the Lions… and 8 wins might win the NFC East.

  104. 104 HipDaDip said at 4:43 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Everyone agrees Vinny Curry should play on obvious passing downs. How much of his lack of playing time is due to the use of hurry up offenses by our opponents, such that we can’t get pass rushing personnel on the field on 3rd down. Do you think there are many situations where Vinny would play if we could sub, but we don’t get the chance?

    Also, great article, Tommy!

  105. 105 ojdiddoit said at 4:55 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Kelly inherited many of the current players on the roster,few on the offensive side of the ball fit his profile,Vick most glaringly

  106. 106 GEagle said at 6:56 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Chip did not inherit Vick…he chose him

  107. 107 Anders said at 6:58 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Chip chose Vick after he outplayed Foles.

  108. 108 GEagle said at 7:32 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Vick isn’t re signed if Chip doesn’t sign off

  109. 109 Anders said at 7:38 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    no, but I think that was more, that Kelly didnt knew what he had yet and wanted a competition at the QB position.

  110. 110 GermanEagle said at 5:24 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    In other (bird related) news: Bobby Wagner is awesome (check out his self tipped int against the Jags).

  111. 111 ACViking said at 5:30 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    T-Law liked Wagner a lot before the 2012 draft.

    But he — as did Roseman — liked Kendricks better.

    I have the suspicion that we’d be having the same conversation about Wagner if Kendricks were in the Seattle defense, and the Eagles had taken BW.

  112. 112 Iskar36 said at 5:42 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    My concern with not seeing the TEs or Johnson that much so far this season is that right now, ~72% of the offense is coming from McCoy, DeSean, or a Vick run. I understand those guys were going to be the focus of our offense regardless, but that number seems fairly high, and makes you wonder how much of it is by design vs. other guys not stepping up. A guy like Ertz gets a bit of a pass as a rookie. But the other guys are veterans and I would hope that sooner rather than later they step up and allow our offense to spread defenses out more by allowing our offense to have more options.

  113. 113 anon said at 5:48 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Think scheme makes it hard to change personnel in the tempo game. If you start in 11 personnel you’re probably stuck there.

  114. 114 BlindChow said at 8:03 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    He’ll deploy 2- and 3-TE sets during the second half of the season. Also Johnson will get more snaps. That way, he has fresh offensive players who can keep up with the uptempo when the usual suspects are starting to wear out…

  115. 115 anon said at 6:16 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    It’s only monday, wish it was sunday.

  116. 116 ICDogg said at 6:19 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    cuz that’s your fun day, your “i don’t have to run” day

  117. 117 ACViking said at 6:36 PM on September 23rd, 2013:


    Too many fights in the 700-level?

    Or too many bears at 34th and Spruce?

  118. 118 ICDogg said at 7:44 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    crappy song lyric

  119. 119 ACViking said at 6:27 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Re: The Browns . . . a False Comparator if Ertz/Graham/Curry Play More

    It’s been suggested, not too infrequently, in response to comments suggesting that giving the players who are Eagles’ future (or have no future here) that the Eagles would be tanking the season like the Browns are.

    I don’t think that’s accurate at all.

    And not just because the Browns are 1-2 . . . just like the Eagles.


    Seems fairly clear that the Browns’ front office and coaching staff (a) decided Trent Richardson is not a bell-cow RB, (b) RBs are a the easiest position to fill, (c) getting a No. 1 for TR was found platinum, (d) the NFL wins with QBs, (e) the Browns don’t a franchise QB, and (f) if flipping TR for a pick that could help land a 10-year stud QB, the move is a no-brainer.

    Equally important, Banner et al. concluded the Browns are NOT winning the SB this year. A brutally honest — and correct — assessment, right?

    Also, the Browns have some pretty good talent on defense.

    So what’s your best move if you’re operating a team with no long-term franchise QB, some talented defensive players, and you’re not winning the SB this year? Probably, you try to get the best QB you can in the next draft, which just happens to have — at this point — several projected franchise QBs.

    Moreover, who else are the Browns dumping?

    Any rumors about the Browns trading All Pro OT Joe Thomas, C Alex Mack, or any of their best defenders, like NT Phil Taylor — who’d look great in Kelly Green — ILB D’Qwell Jackson, OLB Jabaal Sheard, CB Joe Haden, and S TJ Ward?

    Not a bad core defensive group, right?

    WR Josh Gordon . . . if he goes for a 3rd Rd pick or higher, that’s an understandable move. The kid is one-beer too many from never-never-seen-again land. How do build your team around him?

    So, respectfully, I don’t get the argument that somehow, if the Eagles play the 35th player drafted in 2013 (Ertz), they’re no better than the Browns. Same with Graham. Same with Curry.

    For those wanting the Eagles to win now at the expense of the next 2-4 years, with the Eagles a 1-in-a-very-longshot SB winner this season . . . the question is: Which team will be structurally better in 3 years from now?

    Especially, if — as T-Law and Jimmy ‘Bama have foretold — Vick is gone after this season. And the Browns get their franchise guy . . . and he’s more Andrew Luck than Vinny Testeverde.

    Who’s the franchise QB the Eagles are drafting next year . . . when they go 9-7 or 8-8?

  120. 120 Anders said at 6:33 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    The Browns have a great chance of not getting the top QB in next years draft.
    There is so many more teams there is way worse than them this year:

    and a couple teams who might suck just as much in:

    Lets say less QB than we think declare for the draft with at least 2 teams who will be worse than the Browns looking for QBs. They could end up with a Ponder/Gabbart type QB.

  121. 121 GEagle said at 6:35 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    they have two first round picks, in other words they can trade up and get whoever they want

  122. 122 Anders said at 6:37 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Do you think the Buc or Jags are willing to trade away for Bridgewater?

  123. 123 GEagle said at 6:45 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    probably not…But Oakland, Bills,jets might give up Marriotta or one of the dozens of other kids who could get the it value up by the end of the year..
    …Teddy and Clowney as the first two picks…it’s soooo not out of the question that the third team picking recently invested in a young QB, and needs defense or Oline help and LTs Cleveland go up and get the QB…..B ridge water is NOT going to be the only QB that can help a franchise

  124. 124 Anders said at 6:49 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    True, but we wont know how many QBs will declare and what the draft order will be.

  125. 125 ACViking said at 6:46 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Anders . . .

    I agree with you in principle.

    The Browns could be on the outside-looking-in if they win 3 or 4 more games.

    But Banner has a lot of ammo to deal.

    I believe the Giants, Bills and the Washington football club would trade down in a heart beat for two 1st rounders and a 2nd.

    I’d wager the Steelers and Vikings end up better than Cleveland.

    Otherwise . . . you are dead right. A horse race is on.

  126. 126 BlindChow said at 8:00 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Washington doesn’t have a 1st round pick.

  127. 127 BlindChow said at 7:59 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    “Damn you, Brian Hoyer!!” –Joe Banner on Sunday

  128. 128 GEagle said at 6:34 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Great post. Totally agree. I hate what Kelly is doing with the young players. He is wasting the fans free pass where he could be developing or ATleast evaluating young guys for our future, for this bogus fools gold Super Bowl run…and you better not be playing 33yr old QBs for any reason other then trying to win a SB. Hate the approach Kelly is taking

  129. 129 BlindChow said at 7:58 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Not playing young players immediately dooms the franchise for the next 2-4 years? None of this “learn behind a veteran for a year or two” nonsense for you, eh?

  130. 130 ACViking said at 6:35 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Re: GEagle’s Funny Bone

    You’ve asked why Kelly’s hooked on the 2-gap 3-4 defense.

    I don’t know the answer to that question.

    But I believe the following: If Dion Jordan were wearing (non-Kelly) green, the defense’s present and future would be a heck of a better.

    Big miss (or miscalculation) by the Eagles’ front office.

    Yes, the Birds needed to restock. And LJ’s going to be very good in this scheme — run blocking for sure.

    But the Eagles could have parted with the picks that turned into Matt Barkley and had a good chance to get the guy I . . . and GEagle . . . think Kelly really wanted.

    And no team has won a SB because of their ROT or LOT. The list of recent SB winners with castoffs or no-names at those positions is not insubstantial.

    I just think in Kelly’s world, a guy like Jordan is more valuable than a guy like LJ.

  131. 131 GEagle said at 6:41 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Thanks for the reminder…it’s not like I don’t think about this enough 🙂
    “Can’t franchise him forever”-GEAGLE…yes I’m cool enough to quote myself…heck if Chip would actually play Curry and Graham,maybe he could get The value up and trade for dion in the future when he gets more and more disgruntled with their scheme and usage of him….unleash Curry and Graham! who’s to say they don’t become attractive to a 4-3 team like the Dolphins…1st round pics who don’t have big seasons are like new cars, they lose value as soon as you drive them off the lot….a big promising year from Curry and an average year out of dion and their value starts to even out….but devaluing Curry sis unit a waste in every way

  132. 132 Anders said at 6:42 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Every team is different. Looking over the last decade, there is no way to see a trend with SB winners. Some of them have elites QBs, some of them have average QBs. Some of them had great defense, others had total crappy ones.

    Based on a interview I have heard from a former Eagles scout, it sounded like they had Jordan, Fisher, Joeckel and Johnson equal in the top 4 and was happy with any of them.

    Also I really doubt Jordan would be an upgrade over Cole or Barwin this year.

  133. 133 GEagle said at 6:51 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Not this year, but ATleast our schemes would make sense because we would have a premier position on defense locked up for the future…there are plenty of quality tackles in the next draft, and I would take Dion over Barr in a heartbeat

  134. 134 Anders said at 6:52 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I love Jordan, but imo Barr is a much better OLB prospect.

  135. 135 ACViking said at 6:57 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Barr may be a better OLB.

    But the Eagles very likely won’t be shooting from the 4th spot in May ’14.

  136. 136 Anders said at 7:04 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    true, but we should still get a potential impact player in the top 15 and after watching the difference between Peters and what ever crab we played last year. I have no problem with us drafting a tackle.

    Also watch those elite QBs this year getting pummeled because of those crappy OTs

  137. 137 BlindChow said at 7:51 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    King Crab?

  138. 138 Anders said at 7:59 PM on September 23rd, 2013:


  139. 139 GEagle said at 6:58 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    As a pass rusher….a better coverage prospect then Jordan doesn’t even exist. The freakish things you can do with him in coverage make me happily give up the pass rush advantage that Barr has and go with Dion

  140. 140 Anders said at 7:00 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Jordan is good in coverage, but Barr is no slouch either and an OLB needs to rush the pass first and foremost.

  141. 141 A_T_G said at 8:43 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Okay, I gotta ask. What the hell is ATleast? Why would you capitalize and space a perfectly normal phrase that way, every time?

  142. 142 BlindChow said at 7:53 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Are you saying they should have traded up for Jordan?

  143. 143 ACViking said at 6:54 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Re: Keeping / cutting Vick (reposted)

    Shah8 is not buying the projection by T-Law and J’B. (Comment by him above.) His arguments are sound.

    If Vick remains upright for at least 15 games, and produces at somewhere between the Washington and Chiefs’ games . . . I think Shah8’s far closer to right than not.

    Who replaces Vick? And if the Eagles win this year, why would you want to replace him?

    And if he were replaced — particularly with a rookie — are the fans ready for the step backwards?

    Is another Griffin-III out there? Or Luck — whose record last year had lots of that going his way.

    Russell Wilson . . . with that defense, Matt Flynn would been a winner.

    Yes, Shah8, your points are all well taken — since Vick’s the guy now.

    Kelly’s done a bit of matrimony here. Those contracts are expensive and hard to break.

  144. 144 GEagle said at 7:24 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Rotoworld reports that we cut Hughes with injury settlement….didn’t. This already happen?

  145. 145 Anders said at 7:25 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    yea he was put on IR/waivered after the Chargers game

  146. 146 ICDogg said at 7:27 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    they had him on “short term” IR which is just another way of saying that they intended to cut him as soon as they figured out the settlement

  147. 147 GEagle said at 7:33 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Oh ok…saw that they brought Will Shaw back to the PS squad…I’m out of he the lop these past few days with the Jon Jones vs. Gustafson madness

  148. 148 BlindChow said at 7:47 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I’m actually looking forward to tonight’s game. Usually I hate these potential one-sided blowouts, but this time it’s like a scouting exercise!

    And with all the unexpected results yesterday, maybe the Raiders put up a fight…

  149. 149 Anders said at 7:47 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    I hope the Broncos wait one more week to lose a game they are suppose to win 😛

  150. 150 GEagle said at 7:58 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Wouldn’t shed a tear over one of their interior linemen suffering a two week injury 🙂

    I’m tied with my buddy in fantasy going into tonight. he has Knowshon, I have Julian Thomas….interesting game for me

  151. 151 Anders said at 8:00 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    They are starting Winston Justice at LT because their pro bowl LT is out for the season. The Broncos interior OL isnt really that strong.
    The whole offense is based on P Manning, Thomas^2 and Welker.

  152. 152 BlindChow said at 8:52 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    Here’s story we can all smile about!

    Carl Banks rips Giants for lack of emotion

    “Well, they don’t like themselves, that’s what it really comes down to,” Banks said. “They don’t like each other, they’re not willing to fight for each other. When you have a premier quarterback in this league, and you don’t have enough self-respect — not for him, but for yourself — to protect him and do your job, I think it speaks volumes. And I think these guys really do need to all stand in (front of) the mirror, and it’s gut-check time.”

  153. 153 Vick or Nick said at 9:57 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    The offense will be okay if it can limit penalties and turn overs. Eagles have really relied on chunk plays (~ 20-30 yards) but a lot of time their offense will run for 2-4 yards or screen pass for 5-6 yards which is okay. Chip is all about getting positive yards. Penalties, turnovers, and sacks move you backwards. Simple concept but hallmark of Chip’s offensive scheme. If you run enough plays eventually you will hit on plenty of chunk plays and score TDs. Last week Eagles did not execute on offense and as a result had a ton of negative plays.

    The Defense is the bigger issue but possibly an easier fix.


    Chiefs ran same play in different drives on 3rd and long. Eagles need to get aggressive and challenge offenses (ESP like the Chiefs) to beat them deep.

    Now Denver is a completely different story, I get it. However, its still best to force Peyton Manning to beat you on deep throws. He loves throwing screens, short slants, easy completions. Best bet is to take those away and see if Peyton really has the juice to throw it down field (something Eagles should have forced Alex Smith to do). Single high safety should be the look most of the time. Allow Fletch, Cary, and Boykin to play man. Will they give up plays? Sure, but the Eagles are already having breakdowns as it is. The blitzers can’t give away their intentions early in the play clock (like they did against Rivers). Maybe I’m in the minority but I think the defense can be serviceable enough to win games if Billy Davis can make adjustments.

    Offense: limit penalties (less than 4), 1-2 sacks, no turnovers
    Defense: challenge short throws, screens, and runs

    ST: Return back to form

    = Eagles beat the Broncos on Sunday.

  154. 154 SteveH said at 10:07 PM on September 23rd, 2013:

    So… Peyton Manning 21/24 for 264 yards and 3 scores in the first half. Looking promising for us next week.