An Interesting Theory
Posted: March 1st, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 198 Comments »The Eagles re-signed Jeremy Maclin and Riley Cooper this week. That led to a lot of positive vibes. Except in the case of Jimmy Bama. He decided to look behind the moves and try to connect some dots.
Bama then came up with this theory: the Eagles could be preparing to trade DeSean Jackson.
Say what? Didn’t DeSean just have the best year of his career? What is Mr Bama thinking?
Before you rip Jimmy’s theory, at least hear him out. There is logic to his thinking. The Eagles have allocated more money to the WR position than all but one team in the league. That is interesting for a team that led the league in rushing and wants to focus on running the ball. DeSean is due major money this season, and in the future.
The news that the Eagles offered Jeremy Maclin a 5-year deal caught many of us off guard. We don’t know the exact money they offered, but it had to be somewhere in the $5M a year range. Would you pay him, Cooper and DeSean good money long term?
One of the other factors in consideration is that Jimmy wonders if the Eagles are getting tired of dealing with DeSean. Jimmy gave the example that DeSean and WR coach Bob Bicknell battled during games. Jason Avant played the peacemaker, but he’s likely to be cut. Who will step in between Bicknell and DeSean this season?
There is also the question of DeSean’s focus on football. He is a bit of a Hollywood guy. Is that okay with Chip Kelly? DeSean wants to be a rapper or to run a rap label or some variation of the two. That’s fine with some coaches. Kelly might not have any issue with it, but we don’t know. He is looking for more of a full commitment than many coaches. There is the 10 hours of sleep request. There is the whole sports science angle. Does that mesh well with DeSean and his outside interests?
Some people will bring up the contract comments by DeSean at the end of the season. I’m not sure what to make of that. I think he gets over-criticized since he didn’t bring up the issue, but rather just answered a question. That said, we don’t know if he’s brought up the contract behind closed doors. I think DeSean is okay with his salary, but he would like some of the money to be guaranteed. The Eagles prefer the flexibility the current situation gives them.
If the Eagles have gotten a bit tired of DeSean, this is the perfect time to deal him. He still has elite speed. He put up big numbers last year and stayed completely healthy. DeSean played all 16 games for the first time since his rookie year.
What kind of compensation could the Eagles get for him? Tough question. The draft is loaded at WR so that could impact his value. DeSean’s big contract could also affect his value and the amount of teams that would have interest. Still, you never know when a team would be willing to pony up for an elite speedster. I’d love to say the Eagles could count on a 1st rounder, but you can’t do that. NFL trades are funny. Sometimes you get fair compensation, other times you settle for less.
So what is my take on all of this? My initial reaction was that Jimmy connected some dots, but I didn’t fully buy the conclusion. The more I think about the offer to Maclin though, the more it does make me wonder. Jimmy and Howard Eskin had an interesting exchange on Twitter.
@JimmyKempski possibly trading DeSean Jackson is not connected 2 signings of Cooper and Maclin. Hear tm may b at that pt bcause of his drama
— Howard Eskin (@howardeskin) March 1, 2014
@howardeskin Agree. Urgently signing Coop/Mac is the effect of going that route, not the cause.
— Jimmy Kempski (@JimmyKempski) March 1, 2014
Are the Eagles tired of DeSean? Could they want to move on? I hadn’t gotten that vibe this offseason, but the recent events have made me realize that this is at least a possibility. Time will tell if Jimmy Bama broke the Da Vinci Code or if he just came up with a wild theory.
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One thing to keep in mind…if the Eagles do trade DeSean, they would likely take a WR early in the draft. That could be the 1st, 2nd or 3rd round. This is a really deep class so there should be quality targets in each round.
* * * * *
We talked about Dion Jordan yesterday. Let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves on this. I still have my doubts on whether Jordan does get seriously shopped. The guy is talented enough to play in any scheme. His career is off to a disappointing start, but I’m not sure the Dolphins are truly ready to pull the plug at this point.
Speculate away and have fun with the rumor, but don’t start thinking of this as a likely scenario. Remains a longshot in my mind.
_
Adding WRs will only make deseasn better and get him better match ups, the best is yet to come. dude is a unique talent.
Adding WRs, as in our recent signings of both Coop and Mac? Or adding another WR via the draft?
both. and the continued development of zach ertz… and chip kelly. the sky is the limit.
I think Jimmy’s idea is absurd. Why would you risk going from one of the best WR corps to a below average one?! Which could happen if Macljn doesn’t pan out (injury or else), while Coop is above average but nowhere close to what Desean brings to the table. I also happen to believe that Riley has benefited more from Desean than Desean from Riley, if you know what I’m saying.
In my eyes the Eagles will be dumb to go into next season with someone coming from an ACL injury, an above average WR No.2 and an unproven rookie, provided both Desean and Avant won’t be here any more.
Now off to the Dion Jordan rumor…
I agree. I dont see any reason to cut desean. Every team has talented players that are knuckleheads. Its a coaches job to manage that. I see nothing that gives us reason to give up Desean.
I see the signings as building around your young QB. How many young QBs are never given a fair shake due to coaching changes, bad OL play, or lack of weapons? The eagles are giving Foles everything he needs to be successful before they make a decision on whether or not to give him a big pay day. He is entering year 2 with an offensive coach, and OL that played 17 games together last year, and a ton of weapons. They want him to succeed.
Howie also talks about creating one elite unit. Maybe they are taking the elite offense approach.
I dont think anyone has ever suggested cutting DeSean.
Well… Actually Mr. Bama had in one of his tweets, admitting that he won’t be surprised if Desean is either traded or RELEASED. Which makes him one of the bigger hacks lately.
I saw that tweet and thought it was crazy too. You know that, at worst, we could get a 6th from AR. Desean is way too valuable to just release.
Jimmy is not a hack – settle down and go read all the amazing things he has written over the past few years.
I respect his football knowledge, but posting this Desean thing made him my ‘hack do the day’.
Let’s hope he’s not turning into one of those Espn Sports writers…
Jimmy is most definitely NOT a hack. One of the more insightful Philly journalists. Plus, he has a HUGE following on here and I think him and Tommy have a bromance.
Personally, I think the front office is tired of his garbage. After seeing how he handled last contract moping season, they might see this as the last year they have with Desean at his full effort(which probably is still not enough for Chip). This is just my theory. However, they will not trade him for less than a first rounder–which they will most likely not get. But I could see a team that needs more speed on the outside and is a contender paying a nice price for him–maybe a San Fran? Don’t they still have a ton of draft picks this year? Plus, isn’t Desean from that area? As Tommy said, just a theory. Most likely he will be with us next year.
Yeah, DeSean’s from Cal but I have a hard time seeing the 49ers wanting DeSean. They have Crabtree who developed some solid chemistry with Kaep when he came back from his Achilles injury.
Crabtree is a decent WR, but he is slow. That was the knock on him, and it still is. He is a younger version of Boldin. With Kap and his big arm, they lack any speed outside of Vernon Davis.
San Diego? Raiders? Oakland has money and a bad team.
Crabtree is SORRY
I have thought about the 49ers. Crabtree is kind of like Maclin in that he is a very good intermediate route WR. Makes some big plays, but not the game breaking type. Boldin is a possession WR. Jackson would being a whole new dynamic to that offense. They dont have a playmaker like him in that WR corps. Their only big play guy is Vernon Davis. Jackson would be huge for that team.
Once again, they have a lot of picks in the draft, and their 1st rounder is a late first so those things can soften the blow for them. In addition, they have a recent 1st round bust in Jenkins who they already gave up on and traded away. They can get a proven commodity in Jackson. Hes only 28, and they are at the point where they can compete right now so he is the type of player that can help put them over the top.
It would be a good fit for them. And I think its a good spot in the draft for us to get a good WR like Allen Robinson or DaVante Adams, or even Cooks if you want to replace speed with speed. You also have the option of drafting another weapon like Austin Sefarian-Jenkins there.
Only reason I don’t think the niners are a fit is $. Djax is making alot of money and SF has alot of talent they have to pay already. They have to pay Kaep this offseason. They will have to pay Aldon Smith handsomely as well (assuming he does indeed get off on the charges).
You know, The Eagles are short on draft picks this year. Could they possibly trade DeSean Jackson for a second rounder a sixth and something like a conditional seventh next year? We know Howie likes to load up on pics…
With the recent signings of Cooper and Maclin, these two and DeSean may have made their case as one of the best trio of WRs in the league…until, of course, we see them on the field. Now there’s the possibility – an exciting one, I’d like to add – that each of them may benefit from each other, depending on what offensive personnel packages Chip implements in each game.
It’s easy to jump right in and say that Chip’s going to implement more 3-wideout packages. And while that may be true to a certain extent, I think Chip is going to continue mixing in both 11- and 12-Personnel packages, depending on what defensive schemes the opposing team designs.
Yes, I personally find Jimmy’s theory a crazy one, but, as you already mentioned, Tommy, it’s just purely speculative, and one that I hope will not happen.
Although, now that DeSean seems to have bought in Chip’s system and just had a career year, would DeSean be more content restructuring his contract in the later seasons?
Derek of Igglesblog was talking about a D-Jax possible trade last year too, in the wake of the Percy Harvin trade.
Re: Dion Jordan
“The guy is talented enough to play in any scheme.”
I think this is the quote that people have overlooked too much in the possible trade of Jordan. Everyone points out that Jordan was not in the right scheme last year, and while I think he would be better suited as an OLB in a 3-4, as the 3rd overall pick, he still should have been productive in a 4-3 scheme. The fact that he wasn’t can not simply be overlooked.
A few things to keep in mind.
1. Jordan was coming off a shoulder injury that required a substantial rehab time.
2. It was widely accepted that Jordan would need some time to get bigger and fill out his frame some more, the surgery certainly did not help
3. The 43 also requires more physical play as the DE will be lined up over the T consistently.
4. Oregon is on the quarters system. This means Jordan would have missed much of the OTA’s similar to Ertz. Ertz admitted this caused him to be behind and felt that he would’ve been more productive early on had he been a full participant.
5. Miami already had Vernon and Wake on the roster, meaning Dion wasn’t forced into more snaps.
Logic ^
Well stated!
There are far bigger head cases than DeSean. If Chip can’t deal with him, then I’m worried we hired the wrong guy. Jimmy Johnson had to deal with Michael Irvin potentially getting arrested every day, yet he got the most out of him. Bill Belichick has to deal with Rob Gronkowski injuring himself in some nightclub every week, but he gets him produce. DeSean might be an annoyance at times, but I’ve never heard anything to suggest he’ll get arrested or do anything close to what T.O. did to the team. Chip has bigger problems if he can’t control a very controllable player.
I don’t believe its a control issue at all. I think its a committment issue. While Irvin had major behavior issues, name one game where you saw him mope and not compete. Desean did that for one whole entire season when he last had contract issues. He already stated this offseason that he thought he deserved more money. The best predicter of future behavior is past behavior…..just saying.
DeSean is getting paid handsomely this year. $12.5 million this year alone. I highly doubt he has much to complain about. Keep in mind he was asked about his contract. He didn’t bring it up himself. I’d argue he was being bluntly honest and basically saying, “well I’m pretty happy with it, but you always want to earn more money if you ever can.” That’s like saying, “well, I’m happy with my well-paying job, but that’s not to say I wouldn’t be happier if I won the lottery.” There are lots of players who privately ask the GM for a raise, and most probably get turned down. He isn’t making this public and has little reason to.
As far as effort goes, DeSean gave more last season than ever before. Maybe Chip and DeSean don’t personally like each other, but they worked really damn well together. DeSean blocked better than he ever had and was far more productive even with double coverage. It is hardly abnormal for coaches and players to not like one another. Maybe there’s more to it beneath the surface, but there’s nothing the public knows about which would let me think Desean has any true commitment issues.
Just saying…..
So I went back and dug up the quote.
” I definitely feel it’s something deserving,” Jackson said on locker-cleanout day, via Reuben Frank of CSNPhilly.com. “We’ll see how that plays out, and hopefully we can work things out smoothly and not have to worry about anything out of the ordinary.”
I certainly appreciate your optimistic point of view, but please be pragmatic. If the player has already been a malcontent and played at half speed for ONE ENTIRE SEASON because he was unhappy with his contract, and then fires this warning shot to the media, the Front Office took note. To me, it was an absolute ultimatum. He clearly threatened that if wasn’t worked out, “things would be out of the ordinary”. I believe the guy is at his best, a high maintenance diva who needs constant stroking or he implodes. Now that we have WR coach who doesn’t coddle him, they are at each other’s throats. So, I didn’t see Kelly get rid of Bicknell, so I am doing the math. Also, the arguements with the coaches were not the only embarassment on the sideline either. Remember when he and Shady got into it and had Coop(stifled laughter) had to break up the scrum? How about all of the attitude he gave to Foles when the balls didn’t come his way? You can say what you want, but a veteran WR should be helping his young QB and talking to him, not embarassing him and acting like an ass when the ball doesn’t come his way. I know other WR have done this and other coaches have accepted it, but some do not-and I believe Chip to be one of those type coaches.
Bottom line: this is my opinion, but it is based upon the past actions of the Desean and his recent statements. As I stated before, if he has done it once, he will do it again. If you choose to disagree, you may be entirely correct.
exactly.
This was my thinking. DJax had been farrrrr from a distraction, even when he was “pouting” over a new contract a few seasons ago.
Plus, trading DeSean feels like bad juju going in to a season where we should be challenging for a legit run in the playoffs.
far from a distraction a few seasons ago? Are you talking about the season where he admittedly dogged it? Like for the whole season?
come on. hes a fun player to watch but lets be honest about his character.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. There was a lot more going on with the team that season, that you can’t really blame DeSean for negatively influencing the team. He’s never been a “leader,” but he’s never had any significant negative impact on the team from what any of us know.
Even this story about conflicting with the WR coach… Did that even make ripples in the media at the time? Shoot, if anything, DeSean was a little bit of a media darling this past season with the documentary stuff.
But the past is the past, whether DeSean was or wasn’t a difficult player, I guess. The only thing that matters now is of DJax is more valuable as an Eagle or as a trade piece.
With Dion all but headed to town, I wonder if the team has considered the positive PR of getting him to wear #56. The seven guys who own Akeem Jordan jerseys would be stoked.
Sending my Phillip Hunt jersey out to be dry cleaned as we speak
Any chance Dion can invoke Deion and play two sports? If so, here are some sweet Ricky Jordan threads ready for a new life…
As long as he doesn’t play basketball wearing #45. That would be a mistake.
DJax and Wolf for Byrd and Kiko
Jimmy Bama is great and all, but theres been some chatter for a while about this possibility. Im not sure if this guy posts here but a few days ago IggleWalt of the EMB shared a rumor that during the combine the eagles were approached by the Raiders who offered us 2 variations of a deal for Jackson. Oaklands 2nd round this year and next. Or Jackson and 22 for 5th overall. At first glance, the 2 seconds are better value. But what if you trade down from 5th overall? You could get some insane value out of that.
Aside from that point, there was a discussion in another thread on the EMB today. 2 guys were making a bet about whether or not the eagles would draft a WR in round 1 this year. Im not as confident in a round 1 WR because I think there will be a bunch of intriguing options on the board at pick 22 aside from WRs. But I would be confident enough to bet that they will take one in the first 2 rounds. I made this post to support the stance that there is still a lot of work to be done at the WR position:
disclaimer- Its a bit lengthy and I admit the first bit of evidence is a little week, but if you read on I think it becomes clear that there is mounting evidence to suggest some more major moves at the position:
“youre absolutely right in that the WR picture is far from complete. I said last night, this is exactly like the year when we had Patterson, Jenkins, Thornton, Landri. Good players and plenty of depth. But the position was drastically different the following year, and especially 2 years later. Major changes including the trad up and selection of Cox in round 1.
Check out all of these clues:
-At the end of the season I had a thread in ask Dave about the WRs, and he said the production especially from Jackson was not enough and it needs to be addressed. Dave is usually not so direct. (kind of weak, I know but the rest is better so please dont be deterred.)
-Howie or Chip (dont remember which) said that they are going to get Foles weapons. (Re-signing some of your own players hardly qualifies as getting weapons imo)
-Howie commented that the WR situation on this team is complicated. (simply re-signing 2 of your WRs isnt that complicated imo)
-Howie commented during the combine that this class of WRs is so strong, and there is probably going to be 1 or 2 WRs available during their pick in every round that they really like. (So we know how much the eagles like this class of WRs)
-We know DeSean had a little flare up on the sidelines with his position coach which was caught on camera. There is a recent article out which explains that that wasnt just a 1 time thing. They didnt get along. And Avant was like a middle man for the 2 to communicate.
-During the time Chip was rumored to be in the running for the Texas job, it was said that the thing he couldnt stand about the NFL was dealing with the egos of the players. There may be other players, but we know that Jackson is one of his problems on this team.
-DeSean already commented about “deserving” a new deal even though he just signed a long term deal pretty recently.
-There is a rumor that the Raiders approached Howie at the combine about trading for Jackson and offered 2 deals- Either their 2nd rounder this year and next year. Or Jackson and 22 for 5th overall this year.
-Last night an unrelated rumor was making rounds on twitter stating that the eagles would like to trade up to 5 for Sammy Watkins.
There is a TON of evidence that they plan to majorly address the WR position this year. And there is even a decent amount of smoke around the possibility of a DeSean Jackson trade which to me would explain the “complicated” comment.
Consider your top 4 WRs right now: Cooper, Maclin, Jackson, Avant.
As of now only 1 of your top 4 WRs are guaranteed to be here beyond this year and next. Thats Cooper. Maclin is on a 1 year deal. Avant is going to be cut before his bonus is due in mid march. And Jackson may or may not be traded.
Again, no question that this WR situation is far from complete. And even though we have a bunch of recognizable names on the depth chart currently, having only 1 guaranteed to be here long term definitely dictates that there is a need for a starting caliber player to be added. After that, you still need to rebuild the depth there too.
But there are excellent WRs to be had in round 2. So its a question of what they do in free agency, and how the board looks when it gets to their pick whether they will take a WR in round 1 or not.”
Not sure I think it’s going that way but you do make a pretty extensive case.
oh yeah. theres some clues, but theres some of me just interpreting it my way. theres nothing proven there. But I do think, its a strong case. Based on all of that, right now Im thinking theres a greater than 50% chance that Jackson is traded this offseason.
Add that DeSean is 28 and does not have a lot of weapons other than speed. What if the FO has an eye on a FA 4 or 5 years younger, or a draft choice, with a lower salary demand and who could bring a certain toughness to the position, along with some speed? And could maybe even return kicks more consistently?
For a long time Ive preferred physical WRs on the outside with the playmaking in the slots, the TEs, and the backfield. Ive been talking about trading Jackson for 2 years now, but especially this year. My plan was always to re-sign Cooper and Maclin. Maclin on a 1 year deal plays in the slot, and Cooper and a 1st or 2nd rounder start on the outside. The WRs I am interested in in those rounds are Benjamin, Robinson, and Adams. I think youd have to trade Jackson in that case because he isnt build for the slot, he isnt starting in that scenario, and there simply would be too much money tied up in the position with the re-signing of Cooper, Jacksons contract, and the contract of a high draft pick.
So far this offseason, everything that needs to happen is happening and its like a dream come true. Cooper and Mac are re-signed. Lots of chatter about a Jackson trade. And we know the eagles love this WR draft class.
Also looking at the corps of Cooper, Maclin, 1st/2nd rounder, thats a lot of talent for rather cheap. Great value. Freeing up money to be spend on defense.
Id also like a speedy slot guy drafted in the later rounds. There are a lot of options there. Saunders, Gallon, Herron, Huff, Archer/DeAnthony Thomas…
Ive been of the opinion that we should draft 2 WRs this year. A physical type early to start, and a playmaker later on to replace Avant as the 4th WR.
It makes for a very cheap but very talented and versatile group.
You have obviously thought this out and make a compelling arguement. But I want to believe and have wanted Jackson gone since he mailed in an entire season a few years ago. Roseman is a very smart guy and if he ever wanted to trade Jackson, now’s the time.
1 more thing: they offered Maclin a 5 year deal. I think Kempski mentioned that, but important to note that they offered Coop and Mac long-term deals (or as some see it, “tying up too much $ in WR”)
it’s only too much money at 123m salary cap…in ’16 it’s going to 155+m, then it’s not. draft 2 rookies, enjoy the rookie contracts for 3 or 4 yrs, paying 3 other WRs too much wont be an issue. and if it is, the guy who’ll go first is Cooper, and he seemed to be behind getting Mac in. sure he and his agent had conversation about allocation of funds.
Really wish One of our brilliant media members would have asked Howie is if the projected cap increases effected his decision..as soon as that rumor emerged, we suddenly caved and gave Mac the one year deal he wanted, when Howie had 11 more days to play chicken with Macs agent..
…
I’m sure Howie is building some nice relationships with agents with the way he is doing business, which could help funnel their future clients to philly…Howie is just putting on a clinic. Sam Hinkie would be proud
Couple of things missing from Bama’s piece and yours:
– Eagles spending less than 2 mil on QBs at the moment. Only fair to spend that extra cash on OL and receivers.
– Eagles may be run first but Desean’s speed takes two people out of the box.
– DeSeans antics that we know of aren’t that bad, McCoy gets in more trouble.
– DeSean played two solid seasons effort wise, 2011 alligator arm debacle done with.
– There is nothing out there in FA.
– Draft is a gamble.
– No reason to release DeSean now. Foles big money is next year. Release or trade DeSean then, drafted wr will have a year in system then.
– Chip is always in win now mode how does releasing DeSean for an unproven drafted wr help Eagles win now.
– Not buying that DeSeans rap, label, partying commitments are souring chip. I’d guess that DeSeans conflicts with wr coach is more about his drive for excellence and seeing things different than petty selfish bs, DeSean is a proud driven guy.
– I think DeSean get 12 mil next year and 14 mil year after, why would Raiders want to pay him that much? Trading for him on the hope that he will restructure is silly, trading for him and then cutting him is silly too.
In all fairness DeSeans contract all but assured he won’t be here under that same contract next year. Maybe Eagles think he will walk and want value now, but DeSean for the 5th is a gamble as DeSean is a known quantity and Sammy Watkins may not be as good as DeSean now, many, many receivers were thought to be better than DeSean but haven’t performed that well in the league.
All good points. Of course theres nothing definitive to say for certain one way or the other. I just lean more towards thinking this is the year they do it.
Waiting till next year when you need to clear money for Foles means they have incentive to get rid of him and teams use that as leverage in trade negotiations which means we may get less in return.
Also, this years draft is a great one to capitalize on.
There is surely a reason to keep Jackson around your rookie develops. But realistically, we are still probably another year away from competing for a super bowl. We can win games next year so Chip will still be winning games without him. But I think whats most important to him is getting personnel in here that he wants. And if DeSean isnt one of those guys, then there is no good reason to delay moving towards the roster being a finished product in terms of fits for Kelly.
And having the rookie as the 4th WR really limits his snaps and his ability to develop considering how much Chip likes to put his TEs on the field, which I think will increase this year as Ertz has showed development and appears to be ready for an increased workload.
Chip was never going to Texas, he has a 2 year show clause, meaning he CANNOT coach college FB. Anything else “rumored” surrounding that rumor is probably BS as well.
Rumors are interesting to read, but how sometimes we think too much. For example, DeSean is scheduled to make a lot of money, Mac has been solid, but not great, and coming off his 2nd ACL injury, Cooper finally produced once Foles came in. Draft is loaded with talent, yet all unproven at an NFL level. Mac and Coop were the top two FA wideouts, giving potential for a bidding war Eagles probably didn’t want to be in.
We can look at that as complicated. Do you sign your guys? Do you go and draft a gyuy who might not pan out? Will Mac stay healthy, will he block? Was Coopers production a one year wonder or a mirage? Sounds complicated to me…
Throw in a rumor that FO is fed up with DJax, and suddenly he’s the complication. Why then give him that contract? Why not let him walk at the time and be done with it? I agree his value is probably at an all time high, but with his cap numbers, probably not an easy deal to make.
Playing with fire. I wouldn’t trade DJax unless it was an offer you just couldn’t pass up. There’s too much uncertainty regarding Maclin’s health and the jury is still out on Cooper’s ability to be a reliable playmaker.
With that said, I do wonder about Desean’s future. Will he refuse to adapt and flame out like AI (Allen Iverson)? Or will he adapt, maintain his health, and sustain greatness like a Tim Brown? I don’t think there is an apt comparison for DJax due to his size and unique skill set. I do think it’s vital that he commits to getting stronger and more precise in his route running.
But as for trading him now, I’m opposed. Sure, it’s a deep WR draft class, but there’s just no guarantee the offense would be able to fill the void he would leave behind.
I need to understand how we get better by trading DJax. I don’t care if he is annoying to some people, he either helps us win games or he doesn’t, and what we get in return for him either helps us more or it doesn’t, and I don’t see how this helps us at all.
If the Eagles want to draft a WR that’s fine, but DJax is still a big play guy, and then we’d just use him more on punt returns than we currently are as well.
Totally agree. People get so caught up in “but he’s a rapper.” Or his annoying tweets or instagram posts. To the point where they forget he and Shady are the 2 dynamic pieces in this offense. Not the only pieces, but dynamic playmakers. Desean had 9 TDs this year(and 3 more called back due to penalties). If you think that’s easily replicated or replaced? Good luck.
I’m not dismissing his 4th yr where he basically mailed it in to attempt to avoid injury. But like the TO situation, management played a role in that also.
A bit of a tangent and probably an unpopular one, but Desean made the Pro Bowl 2 of his first 3 years and the prevailing opinion of fans was “honor your contract” “play out your deal and then we’ll see.”
Yet Jason Kelce, an ascending player, who missed a whole yr due to injury…….. his extension is universally applauded, as rewarding a core guy. Desean wasn’t a core guy after his first 3 years?
I acknowledge that attitude and perceptions play a role in the decisions and Kelce’s attitude is exemplary. I’m not saying that Jason shouldn’t have been rewarded, he definitely earned it and I’m glad he’s here but Desean earned his too. Yet, he had to wait.
Simply, I don’t think you improve the team by trading your best players. And for those who don’t think Desean Jackson is one of the best players on the team……we’ll just agree to disagree.
I see most of your points. However, Jackson was offered an extension to his contract at the end of year 3. If I remember correctly, he wanted Larry Fitzgerald money. So the whole thing shut down. With the Kelce situation, multiple reports came out that he took a very reasonable deal and didn’t push the envelope in negotiations. He said something about this being more than enough money to live on and his modest tastes/wardrobe. I think there were two different players and two completely different egos being negotiated with.
Fair enough….even though I referenced Jason’s extension. I did so to contrast the fan’s opinion and perception as opposed to comparing their personalities or abilities.
It was “yeah, we locked up Kelce.” And for the other guy it was, “I’m tired of these guys asking for more money….honor your contract!”
If money was the issue and I’m sure it was….then also, fair enough. I think his contribution is underrated by many fans. Most of us have been fans long enough to remember the days of garbage receivers. Desean is anything but garbage.
No, he’s CJ or Fitz, but then again…who is? Nor is he paid like those guys. For all the talk of him being a troublemaker, other than being suspended for the AZ game a few yrs ago, exactly what trouble has he been? Diva personality? Terrible rapper? Dumb tweeter? Guilty on all charges. But since when is that cause for trading the most productive player at an important position….its a passing league. Maclin and Cooper scare no one.
Truthfully, I could care less about the diva behavior and the off the field stuff. But when you lace them up, you better plays balls out. And Desean doesn’t. By his own admission, he dogged an entire season. He is a game breaker, but only when he chooses to play. I just happen to think that a less than 110% committment will not sit with Chip or his staff, regardless of talent. If the front office thinks in any way, shape or form he will repeat his half assed performance from a few years ago when he was unhappy with his contract, they will ship him out for some value.
The flip side of the Dolphins not wanting to pull the trigger is that the longer they hold onto him and he remains unproductive, the less they’re going to be able to get for him. If they keep him for another 2 years lets say, and he manages 8 sacks in that time span, no one is going to pony up anything close to a first rounder for a pass rusher who has 10 sacks in 3 years. So if they truly believe he isn’t going to be able to work in this scheme, now is the time to maximize what they could get for him, otherwise they risk getting very little in return or just seeing him walk in free agency.
Considering the cap hit they have to take for moving him, it’s not as if they’re going to take any crap anyone wants to throw at them. They’ll keep him unless they think moving him is really worth their while.
Let’s assume (just for sh*ts and giggles) that I am right and the cost of acquiring Dion Jordan is our first round pick, with Miami returning their second round pick to us in the exchange. Let’s assume as well (just because I’m sick of hearing about Brandon Graham and Bryce Brown in trades) that Miami is not interested in getting any of our players in the exchange.
Do you do the deal?
Wait, so Miami gets
PHI 1
We get:
Jordan
MIA 2
?
There’s no way in hell they’d do that. I’d take Jordan straight up for our 1.
I’ll take that as a yes…
I’ll take that as a yes as well.
You’d be surprised, I think, at how many people here would not do that deal.
Yeah, but those people think Jordan is some coverage specialist for an outside linebacker and don’t acknowledge the traits that would make him a special pass rusher like his burst, speed, length and ability to bend around the edge.
He gets slapped with that label because that’s all he can do as of now. It’s exactly like how Anthony Barr is labeled as an one trick pony.
Barr actually played on offense until last couple of years in college. Has something like 3 uncles who have played in the NFL, (UCLA website doesn’t give their names.) Finally, Barr’s father was drafted by the Eagles in the early 90’s. With that DNA maybe he can do 2 or 3 things right!! Besides I liked his interviews on TV. He is intelligent and that might be the most important attribute. Of course this is all moot. He should still be drafted before 22.
Im afraid of Barr. Since 2 seasons ago Ive said he is overrated. There was too much hype over a player so incomplete with such a glaring weakness. Yes he has great potential being that he is so raw but big and athletic. But he is too weak and gets tossed around by OTs too easily and that will only be worse int he NFL. Like Jordan, he has no pass rush ability outside an outside speed rush. Its just such a scary thing to base a guy purely on potential because you never can tell which players are going to ever come close to realizing that potential. Its just unpredictable. For him to go top 15, Id say he needs to be more of a sure thing. Im not saying I want a guy who is maxed out. But I certainly want a guy who is further along than Barr so you can see that he is already developing. I dont think he made big enough strides since the previous season. He was weak then and he is still weak now. Is he putting in the work?
I think he falls, and Id hate to trade up for him. In fact, Im still scared to even take him at 22 because there will be a bunch of players at 22 that I actually like.
Barr is a multi year project.
We have a LB whose brother is an NFL Pro Bowler. Pedigree doesn’t trump evaluations.
Damn you. You beat me to it. Can you imagine a joint family dinner attended by the entire Barr family and entire Matthews family?!! Juan Castillo would go crazy.
Fools
Another thing to consider. There is a change in management and doesn’t that sometimes lead to change, sometimes for changes’ sake? Oneupmanship? Also someone commenting earlier today (Saturday) suggested that the large cap hit is actually spread over 3 years and Miami has plenty of cap space, at least until they start paying some new O Linemen.
Further, plenty of commenters here and on 24/7 talk continuously about trading the first pick for a couple more seconds anyway. So, no loss. Right??
My thinking (if we can call it that) on setting the value is just a feeling that I have that the Eagles would be the only team willing to consider trading their first as part of a Jordan deal, but several teams might be willing to trade their second, including some teams who draft before the Eagles.
It would be about a 12M cap hit for Miami, and I’m unsure as to whether that would all have to apply to 2014 or whether half of it could apply to 2015. It has to do with “June 1” designation, and I don’t know if that applies to a traded player.
Someone wrote how trading Wallace would offset a lot of the hit they take for trading Dion…problem will be finding a team to take his albatross of a contract…but there is always a sucker jackass like the raiders
..
If the Eagles could take that type of a cap hit to add an extra first round pick for a player that doesn’t fit what we were doing, I’d assume we take that cap hit happily..no?
Interesting. In the NBA, they do a lot of deals where a team has to take one guy’s contract in order to also get the guy they really want.
Absolutely. Getting a player with his skills, potential and age while only dropping 15 positions and losing zero picks in a solid draft would be excellent.
Here’s my main objection to this particular theory: DeSean is special. He just is. He has unique, top 5 in the NFL speed. Kelly is not going to want to move on from a talent like that, and we’ve never heard anything publicly about Kelly not getting along with DeSean. There was one issue last spring/summer where there was some resistance by DeSean to learn the rest of the WR positions, but Kelly worked that out with him and DJax had a career year. If anything, I think that would make DeSean respect Kelly more and be willing to do whatever Kelly asks. Lastly, what’s to stop them from redoing his deal next offseason if/when we need the cap space for Foles’ signing bonus so that he gets less money but gets it guaranteed?
I do think this brings up a side of the sports science regimen that hasn’t really been intelligently discussed: it could be a potential turn off for free agents. I’m not interested in the “if he’s not willing to do things Chip’s way, we don’t want him anyway” argument. There’s a legitimate objection by any employee when their employer tries to dictate their behavior on their time off. If you want to negotiate a sleep monitor into my contract and compensate or fine me for not getting my required 10 hours, that’s perfectly fine. Football is an unusual job and NFL contracts contain all sorts of insane clauses. But I think that there’s a definite possibility that it could be a “con” when a FA is evaluating whether he wants to come to Philly. For the record, I think the Eagles (both players and staff) have done a fantastic job selling the program. Right now the incredible health of our roster last season as well as all our guys saying how they feel the best they’ve ever felt at the end of a season so publicly and so often is really helping our image as a FA destination. I do wonder how DJax getting traded and then coming out publicly and saying he just wanted to live his life how he wanted to on his own time would affect that image. Thoughts?
Two points:
1. Everyone looking to the yearly rate Maclin is getting is ignoring the fact that it’s a one year deal. Not so much to do with the Jackson question, more so to do with everyone trying to raise a stink about the difference b/w Cooper and Mac’s deals.
2. I think the market is set pretty well for what it would take to move Jackson, after the Percy Harvin trade. Similar players in a lot of ways, with a lot less questions about Jackson as a player and injury risk. Anything less than that won’t get it done.
Not saying your valuation is wrong but remember Harvin was younger at the time of the trade, which would likely raise his value compared to DJax.
I don’t think anything precludes a Maclin extension if both sides can agree on the terms, this year just gets the immediate uncertainty out of the way.
Not sure about that….Harvins injury history, the migraines should even out the difference in age. We worry about Deseean getting hurt but Harvin is frail as all hell
yeah, it’s tough to compare.
I think it would be a risky move. If we got a first rounder or maybe the first few picks of the second, I’d be on board. anything below that would be questionable
I think it’s even riskier than that. From the BGN article: “According to a Pro Football Focus stat called “WR Rating”, which shows
the quarterback rating when a receiver is thrown at, Jackson ranked
third in the league. Eagles quarterbacks (Vick and Foles) finished for a combined 124.4 QB rating when targeting Jackson.”
Do you replace that with a 1st round pick? Maclin was a “steal” where we got him in the first round. Has he been as good as Jackson? (no) Take a look at the Eagles 1st round picks over the last 30 years. I’m not seeing many names that have equaled Jackson’s success. Maybe Keith Jackson in 1988? Maybe McNabb, depending on your opinion?
You’re off base with your “Has he been as good as Jackson? (no)” comment. For all but Maclin’s rookie year that he has played, his number are relatively equal if not better than DeSean Jackson.
I don’t want to downplay Maclin’s success. I am happy with what he has brought to the Eagles and if he can stay healthy I think he can be a huge part of the team’s future.
But 1000 yard seasons are often the standard used to judge great receivers and Jackson has hit that number 3 times. He’s been over 900 yards in 2 of the other three seasons. The only season he hasn’t been over 900 yards was 2012 when he only played in 11 games.
Maclin has never hit 1000 and has been over 900 once. His numbers are not relatively equal to or better than Jackson’s. Maclin has averaged 58 yards a game. Jackson has averaged 70. That adds up…to almost 200 yards a season over 16 games
Regarding DJax – Is he 110% into football? Does he love the game or the glory? Does he respect his coaches and teammates? Knowing what I know about Chip (and on these traits, I know that he has been clear to players about what he likes ) DJax is on thin ice. His high performance comes with a price that Chip may not want to pay. There may be better options available.
This is nonsense.
Do you think receivers this good grow on trees? How many guys can get over 1,300 yards while being double-covered most of the time? I’ll laugh at you if you say a double-digit number.
And people wonder why I despise our media and fanbase..
…
Doubt GB is writing about possibly trading Randall Colbb. I’d give anything to be able to root for the eagles, with a GB media and GB fanbase
Don’t believe the nonsense about Jackson you read from Philly fans. It’s mostly racism. He’s got tattoos and stuff so he’s not a “good one.”
Philly fans are famous for tearing down their best athletes, in all sports. One day DeSean Jackson will own every Eagles receiving record and half the fans will still complain about him.
Racism? whatta dick to even imply….
I realize that the most indignant members of our society are racists accused of racism. Never has a group of people been so acutely sensitive to their perceived persecution. But I don’t really care. The proof is in their protestations.
as he judges from his living room coach thinking he knows what’s going on outside his door. 1 fan accuses of tattoos so ALL fans must be that way — except you of course. Waaaayyyy up there on your chair. Can you even see the little folk?
Nice. Great segue into race baiting comments. So, genius, let me ask you this—-the most beloved Philly athlete of the last 20 years(outside Dawk) is Allen Iverson. Pretty fucking sure he has double the tattoos of Desean, yet we Philadelphians love him almost universally. The reason being: that little Motherfu*cker played his ass of no matter what. Say what you want about practice and the the off the field issues, and the homophobic raps and the “thug life” he embraced(not being racial, he actually has a tattoo that says thug life). But when the ball went up, he was out there and fearless for his team/city. This city has seen Jackson take a whole damned season off because he wasn’t happy with his contract. Methinks it has more to do with that than race. But please continue to discredit yourself with the race baiting comments and bashing Philly fans as racists, you are quickly becoming uber popular. Maybe you and shah8 can go troll a board elsewhere.
This is basically it. Philly fans want their players to live and die with the team like them. This is part of the lukewarm feelings for McNabb as well.
Although I think if Desean dogged it for a whole season for another team those fans would have reacted pretty much the same because that’s a pretty awful thing to do.
Of course, if he was white…
That’s nonsense. Allen Iverson may be one of the most loved athletes of the last 20 years, but he’s also the most hated. You seems to be sincere, but how do you not know that?
Who hates him?
Why don’t you go over to philly.com and take a look at the comments after the articles on his number retirement ceremony and then get back to me.
Hell, there’s even a comment on Kempski’s Jackson article that takes a shot at Iverson: “Oh, my favorite little thug boy, next to (A)lmost (I)lliterate that is.
You’d be lucky to get a second round pick for little DeThug.”
Do you think your arguments gain credibility by contradicting basic facts that are well known to every Philly fan?
I guess I can see why you’d be so quick to shout racism after reading comments at philly.com.
Making those opinions out to be representative is silly. Let’s not stop at philly.com. Let’s just find the stupidest, nastiest fan and make fun of “philly fans” based on his opinions.
Had you made the argument that Desean was pigeon holed and pre judged because of his tattoos, I would engage in rhetoric with you. But the race card is so easily thrown about these days it nauseates me. I am sure that Iverson has many that dislike him for various reasons. However, I overwhelmingly think he is respected and loved by this city. He could be a major punk ass, but humble and vulnerable at other times. He embodied that hard nose and rough around the edges spirit that Philly loves in its athletes. Desean….not so much. He takes plays, games, and even seasons off. He doesn’t seem to embrace the city and understand us and we dislike that. But keep running the race banner, it’s so easy nowadays.
I disagree. I don’t think the “race card” is thrown around nearly enough these days.
But on the plus side, the objections do make it easier to tell who the racists are: they are the one complaining about the race card being thrown around.
Ok I’ll bite. I am assuming you think yourself clever by insinuating I am a racist. The part that I think is amusing is that you are guilty of the very behavior that you claim others are doing if they do not like Desean. What probably will make you feel foolish is the fact that I am an African American attorney who specializes in workplace civil rights violations. So please, go beat your racism drum elsewhere.
This comment is pretty hard to explain.
I’m gonna give it a shot.
BEEP BOOP
GASP, PEOPLE DON’T LIKE PLAYER I LIKE
BYPASS:THINGS PLAYER HAS DONE THAT ARE UNLIKEABLE
RACE:BLACK
BEEP BOOOOOOOOOOOOOP
RACISM!
DeSean Jackson haters are like republicans…
Not all republicans are racists, but if you’re a racist, you’re probably a republican.
Man, now I really hope the eagles don’t trade him. We don’t need people like you pointing out their real motivation.
Don’t worry, the Eagles won’t trade Jackson because the Eagles are not stupid.
I don’t know. What if they’re racist?
Wiw how insightful, I didnt know our racist President was a Republican
Stupid rumor.. I think the signing of Maclin n Cooper upgrades 2 spots.. The WR spot opposite DJax which is Maclin resigning which is an upgrade over Cooper n the resigning of Cooper which is an upgrade over Avant.. One of these 3 will rotate in that slot.. Cooper had 1 on 1 match ups with the CB all year with DJax attracting the other CB n S while the other S moved up into the box to defend Shady or the RO.. With Maclin being an upgrade over Cooper on the outside the D will have to decide to leave him 1 on 1 with the CB or give him some respect n help with the S which in that case helps out the run game matchups numbers.. Thats what its all about is matchups
DeSean is probably the most unjustly hated player since Donovan McNabb. All he did last year was get the ninth most receiving yards in the NFL, while facing double coverage most of the time. Good god, people! What more do you want? “Yeah, we have one of the best receivers in football, but I don’t like it the one time a year he gets frustrated on the sideline.” You think receivers as good as him grow on trees? Let me tell you, if he does get traded, the receivers are a mediocre group. Maclin and Cooper are just second-rate receivers at best. Typically Philly fans, biting the hand that feeds you…(And I say that as a Philly fan who knows that’s the truth)
I have no clue where the Djax hate comes from either. It might be from the bigots, the Oregon fans, or the “old school” guys. Then again I’ve been brainwashed to believe that good isn’t good enough here.
Maclin on the other hand…doesn’t get the same kind of flak as Djax does.
I don’t think Maclin deserves too much flak. He’s a quiet guy who keeps his mouth shut and generates respectable production. He just isn’t a star like DJax is. All in all, Maclin is a pretty good receiver and an above-average number two starting receiver. I have very little bad to say about him.
Maclin doesn’t even get half of the media attention that Djax gets. I highly doubt that other football fans even know of Maclin’s “self tackling” abilities.
Couldnt have said it any better bro
Right on, preach it!
This is a great debate. I chose to comment to you because you’re one of the best posters. I, for one, do not think DJ(or Mesean as I call him) is great. Let’s forget elite. DJ, is very good. One would ask — why did DJ FINALLY have the year he had? Why was Cooper so effective? What made Shady the best RB in the league? These are the same players that played under AR. The answer is simple. Chips system. In this system, I think WR’s are replaceable. If the Eagles were lose(one way or another) DJ/Cooper/Mac – this team will not skip a beat on offense.
There’s a reason why he’s arguing with the WR’s coach. Are the other WR’s arguing with the coach? The coach probably expects more out of DJ.
While it’s not hatred for DJ — it’s probably more disappointment. He has amazing talent. He choses when/where to use it.
I disagree on Maclin. I actually think Maclin fits this offense better than Jackson. Jackson has good YAC skills, but Maclin has great YAC skills.
I prefer to keep Jackson, Maclin and Cooper, but I can 100% understand if management think his behavior is too much (we as fans has no clue how many times Jackson might have clashed with his WR coach).
I don’t hate DeSean, but I can understand people not worshipping him. He is a phenomenal talent, of that there is no doubt. But he subscribes to a sort of “school of thought” that thinks that the way to celebrate your own accomplishments is by antagonizing your opponent. Few of his celebrations after touchdowns don’t involve some measure of rubbing the other team’s face in his victory. He earns the right when he makes a touchdown, but it is– FLAT OUT– poor sportsmanship.
I think it’s all too easy to say that people who don’t like Jackson’s antics are closet racists. What I think a lot of people dislike is simply his poor sportsmanship. I don’t necessarily dislike him, and I love his talent. But I cringe every time he pulls one of those “F YOU!” celebrations. Even against Dallas. And that’s saying something.
You never saw a guy like Westbrook pull that shit. So it really isn’t about race.
Talent is talent is talent.
The virtues of good management is keeping talent happy and productive. The evils of bad management is one that simply seeks compliance.
The Seattle Seahawks got more meaningful play out of Percy Harvin in one game than the Minnesota Vikings got out of him for four years. Chilly didn’t get on with him and he got entirely pissed during Frazier’s time. And you know? Harvin wasn’t the easiest guy to deal with, but he cares a hell of a lot about football? It wasn’t like Carroll had much fun dealing with Harvin’s slight hypochondria, either. Carroll put up with it, made it work, and Harvin pushed that dagger in, first thing second half of the Super Bowl.
Which is both a long and short way of saying that Jimmy Bama is full of it. Sure, the WR are expensive, but I think they are conscious of needing a full stable for their show. When cuts are needed, the underproducers will get cut. Frankly, I’d almost have to worry about whether Bama needs meds or something. The recent history of the Eagles over the last decade should educate any fan that good WRs are divas, and they are necessary divas. Picking a fight with a good one, or dispensing of good one just because they’re inconvenient, are big parts of what has held this franchise from winning in recent years.
“good WRs are divas”
I’m not so sure, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, and Andre Johnson to name a few recently. But your point stands, gotta learn to work with all sorts of personalities, this team is in no position to be sieving talent because it can’t work with certain personality types. I wish we could have found a way to work with TO, who knows what could have been.
I’ll add to what you said. For every Derrick Masons, Marvin Harrisons, and Jerry Rices…there’ll be Michael Irvins, Dez Bryants and Keyshawn Johnsons. Then there’s the DeSean Jacksons and Chad Ochocincos.
Harrison murdered someone in a philly gunfight. Prolly wanna take him off the good guy list
No he didnt. A guy got shot (not murdered) with a gun owned by Harrison, but Harrison wasnt there and wasnt even charged
Oh right…I changed it to the guy who played opposite of him.
Larry Fitz doesn’t outwardly act like a diva with his attitude, but he’s been extremely aggressive with salary demands and down low trade request rumors over the years.
Tommy, I’ll put a comment here I already put for the article of Jimmy (with a few more things reading comments here):
I’m really dubious about the idea, even if I agree with the reasoning behind. There is one parameter not taken into account in the reasoning of Jimmy when talking about putting too much money in one position: it’s the increase in the salary cap, the margin the Eagles have, and the CBA rule forcing them to spend 95% of the salary cap over 5 years (2012-2016 if I remember well). If the FO trades DJax, they’ll have to spend the money elsewhere and where could it go? Even a top market OLB and/or S would not compensate. Money is spent more in offense than in defense… Because we don’t have any great defensive player that deserve to be paid at elite level.
Chip can use 3 WR and even draft another one and let him develop. As you mentioned in previous articles, there is place for 3 WR and 1 receiving TE without any issue in this offense.
I would turn the article in another angle, saying that if DJax takes the wrong direction, the Eagles are not as dependent on him as they were, and that’s always good news.
Jimmy Kempski is now officially a Philadelphia Sportswriter, making up bullshit to cause controversy and tear down a one of our star athletes so he has something to write about.
Very dissapointed to see one of the quality “journalist” we have sell his soul to the devil and write this blatant bullshit. Sorry, this is just absurd..just assuming WR we draft will be ready to play as rookies. If we draft a rookie this year, and he turns out that he can play, and Maclin stays healthy and produces, I could see us pose this question next offseason, but to talk about it this year is worthless crap…even next offseason would be a stretch if we are planning on being Super Bowl contenders…..
Totally agree (see also my earlier comment). If the Eagles plan to be a contender this and next season they will be foolish to get to rid of a ‘special’ player and playing a big question mark (someone coming back from an ACL tear), an even bigger question mark (rookie) alongside an marginal above average No. 2.
But I guess this ‘absurd’ idea brought Mr. Bama some publicity…
Instead of celebrating us stock piling weapons for young FOles and our offensive mastermind, our media couldn’t wait more then a day to start this TMZ at Best BULLSHIT?
…
Chips offense would have been a joke last year without Desean, because we simply wouldn’t have had the speed to make it work. Desean production, and the attention he commands was huge for us. Coop wouldn’t have been half the player without Desean and I adore coop..
…
Instead of being excited that we now added more speed to it, keeping Mac, our media can’t even help themselves….welcome to becoming a philly Hack Jimmy! I lost all respect!!! Sorry, just being honest
he writes over at philly.com, why i never got into habit of reading him like tommy and PM 24/7 duo. find some of his writing funny, but at some point figured he’d have to start writing for the crazy masses.
.
the rumor just makes no sense. ’14 is about 1-developing a deep SB type roster 2-solving 2 main issues a, single safety m2m and b, nickel/dime get off field defense on 3rd and 3-is Foles the guy or JAG. D-Jax is part of all this except 3rd down defense part. howie and kelly didnt go out and write ~120m (know 50% of it’s air) worth of contracts, bring in 2 WRs’ Foles has uber-confidence in, then shove out the door a top 10 most dynamic WR that make the whole passing game go.
Yeah it’s seriously crazy talk…and then fans will just say, trade Desean and just replace him with Brandin Cooks, no big deal lol, as if he will be half the player Desean is as a rookie.,..the plan was 3 quality WRs that can play now, so we can draft WRs and bring them along the right way… I can’t believe we couldn’t even wait a day to start with the Bullshit nonsense
Agreed! If we draft a WR high and he looks like a star in the making I could see us entertaining this next yr. But this year would be absurd. What if Maclin doesn’t come back as well as we thought. Then you have cooper and a rookie that we were forced to take high because we dealt Jackson. That wouldn’t inspire too much confidence. Further, who cares how much we have locked up in the WR position when we are $20mil under the cap and the cap is going up by $25 mil over the next 3 yr. Why do people always suggest getting rid of our best players to make cap space on a team that is flush with cap space?
My preference would be to draft a WR relatively high and if he plays well, have him take over for self tacklin Maclin next yr.
I am afraid there’s some truth to this..
No shot in hell that it would happen this year.
.
Edit…my bad thought u were saying truth to the rumor
Sorry, I meant to say truth to Jimmy making up bull since he’s now a Philly sportswriter. 😉
Yeah I edit my statement when I realized it…my bad bud
No problem, mate. I admit when reading my statement it could mean both.
No harm no foul
blame ESPN-it works. one analyst using another analysts hypothetical as real news, then using a manufactured story to argue pro’s and con’s, all under the disguise of real news. just need someone to come in and write a full story as to why Eagles should keep D-Jax, then it’s come full circle. feel like clock’s been set back a year and it’s the whole Keyshawn Johnson ‘Kelly’s offense will revolutionize NFL’ debate.
I disagree, its not like it a far fetched idea if there was clashes between him and the coaches to trade him while he has the highest value.
I do think a potential Jackson trade would happen during the draft. A team like the Browns might trade their 2nd 1st round pick for him and if the Eagles then has the chance to draft a guy like Cooks there, it makes perfect sense.
What if the Browns opt to trade Josh Gordon for DeSean? Would you do it?
Agreed. Jimmy is the WORSTEST.
I never implied you were the worst. I said you were typical of the poor sports reporting that has plagued this city for years.
Don’t be pumping yourself up as an arch villain now. Your foray into artificial drama creation just makes you another in a long line of bumbling henchmen.
Lol
Also, a racist.
I know we can’t start counting on Dion Jordan in our future plans, but It’s not like it makes no damn sense for the dolphins. i mean, they have an entire offense to redo. They need 4new starting OL, not even counting depth. They don’t have a single running back worth a DAMN! And their 60million dollar WR has no chemistry with the young QB…I know If I’m the new GM, I’m going into full rebuild, because shortcuts usually turn out to be a dummy mission when building a winner. And if you want to go into rebuild mode, not that they really have a chance, stock piling extra draft picks in a very deep draft class would be the best way to do it. I mean, how the hell are you supposed to try to develop a young QB with NO OL and NO run game? I don’t view trading a player who is a bad scheme fit for extra picks as that absurd, especially since the new GMs reputation wouldn’t be on the line. They can get extra picks now, and just pile on and continue to blame fired Jeff Ireland, who drafted Dion. Trading Dion would be so much less likely if the GMs reputation for drafting him was at stake..
…
I know the popular talk when discussing AQUIRING Dion is trading BG or Curry(would not trade Vinny til I see him in year two) but with Billy Lazor in Miami, he could value some players we aren’t even considering. First of all the GM didn’t draft tannaehill who has good moments and horrible moments..what if the GM isn’t sold on Tannahill and Lazor thinks highly of Matt Barkley and would like to keep working with him and the GM looks at Barkley as insurance for Tannahill? What if they value Barbre or think highly of Bamiro? Their running backs are a Joke, what if they value Bryce?
…
That GM has an entire offense to re build, and we haven’t even talked about the defense yet. They are letting Clemons walk, and already extend Jones that other joke of a safety, so they need to add safeties as much as us if not more. They seem intent on letting the two DTs walk in free agency and Jared Odricks contract expires after next season, so basically they have NO interior DL in place..Wake is getting up there in age, maybe they view BG as a possible replacement in two years…
….
Incognito, starting RG…GONE
Martin..GONE
Jon Jerry, GONE he sucks so bad he won’t even be in the nfl next year
OT Tyson Clabs…GONE, OLD as dirt
They could use, one, or two or 3 running backs
..
Is Mike Wallace,Hartline and Gibson really enough to keep them from wanting to take advantage of the deep WR class?
..
It’s mot like they have gamebreaking TEs and they couldn’t use help there..
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People talk about the cap Hit, as if we wouldn’t take that type of a hit if it meant adding an extra first round pick by trading a player that doesn’t fit our scheme…If I’m the GM, an extra first rounder in this draft could do wonders!!! And what would you be giving up? A 4-3 SAM? Big deal…BG, a 4-3DE has probably more positional value when you look at Wakes age, then a 4-3SAM who didn’t set the league on fire.
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Ideally we could trade a player that’s not part of our future and our second round pick for Dion, and both GMs would feel like winners, but if they play hard ball for that 22nd pick. Chip and Gamble would want to trade that first round pick faster then we can type Dion Jordan. The same people who will complain about trading the 22 pick probably consider Dee Ford at that pick, and Dion is infinitely a better 3-4OLB prospect…there also isn’t a player we can draft at 22, that our coaches know as well and have as much faith as they do in Dion…It be one thing if our coaches were sold on Dion but our front office isn’t, but it’s a known fact that gamble thinks of Dion as a future 3-4OLB stud…
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Unless a serious long shot like Barr!Evans,Gilbert falls to 22, we simply aren’t finding a better prospect then Dion at 22, and he happens to play one of the most high valued positions, where we happen to need help. Coles ability to be elite against the run, would compliment Dion’s Nickle ability really well, while he continues to grow into his frame another season….
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We would have the defender who played Gronk as well as anyone! across from the defender who made Jimmy Graham his bitch in the playoffs(Barwin)..
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Cox and Curry exploding up the middle, Barwin and Dion on the edges(I’d even sometimes put Cole In as the 4-3DE, and use Dion and Kendrick as the ILBs, add Boykin Flying around and we are safety play away from being SCARY!! Billy Davis blitz packages would get a huge Jolt in a guy with this type of athletic ability. Just imagine how fast he can twist stunt his way to the perimeter when we line him up inside..
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When I first thought about it, I looked at it as us fleecing Miami, now I’m starting to find it mutually beneficial for both GMs
LOL
Mac says he wants to be an Eagle. That’s an incomplete sentence. Mac wants to be an Eagle IF the money is right. IF he REALLY wanted to be an Eagle, he would have signed the 5 year deal. He wants more money — and it’s his right to get the most money possible. I think it’s the best move for him(the 1 year deal) but don’t say he WANTS to be an Eagle and decline a 5 year deal.
Did you watch any of Macs interviews? About 300 times reporters asked him about the one year deal and every single time his answer started with “see the thing is, I really don’t look at this as a one year deal”..and the man sounded very sincere..if the Cap is really going up to 140m and then 150m, keeping Maclin no matter how well he plays won’t be problematic! and if Howie thought there was no chance we could have Mac past this year! he wouldn’t be an eagle
yes I watched — don’t you think he HAS to say the right things? He can’t come out and say — I want a year deal with the Eagles so some other team will break the bank for him.
multi-year on surface sounds nice, but how could it be written? it’d almost have to written in a way where Maclin would be forcing either it to be ripped up, a holdout or being over-paid-depending whether he killed it or had off year. it’d have to have so many in and out’s, production based incentives, make your head spin. Mac might have looked at it and been like ‘man, this thing is a mess, why dont just revisit this in a yr when we all know my worth’.
I’m sure there’s language etc. he’s looking for…even though 5 years was thrown out there — maybe there’s some guarantee money he didn’t like…
cant see anyway a contract could be written where it didnt look like a 1 yr prove-it to Mac. sure they agreed on a 1-yr extension 1st, then set it aside and discussed the 5-yr. fact that Mac signed for 3.5m-5.5m means there’s some good will between bth sides. so when mac talks about coming back next year it doesnt sound like lip service. if howie would have done a Banner 1 yr vet minumum had Mac feeling like a broken down POS by end, then after 2 games realize he got fisted during negotiation, i’d be more worried about long term deal.
If he wasn’t insincere don’t you think he would have ATleast tried to test the market and see what he can sucker out of the jets or raiders? Wouldn’t that make more sense if the man was simply motivated by money? As if he couldn’t test the market and then come sign a one year deal with us…I know we think every athlete today is only concerned with money, but there are some guys like Kelce who simply don’t want to play for anyone else..Mac has never comprimised his integrity! never been anything but a loyal class act! and I think he proved it taking a one year deal without even seeing what he could do on the open market
Its not so easy asking for a lot of money from other teams coming off an injury…I don’t doubt his integrity at all. I’m just saying — he wants more money. If Oakland is willing to pay more money in 2015 – Mac will leave..
That not what I hear…Adam Caplan talked about how multiple executives league wide were under the impression that Maclins rehab went really well and that he is ready to roll
I hope so for our sake :). So, I’ll ask you the question than — why wouldn’t Mac take the 5 year deal than?
I’ll bet you dollars to doughnuts that the 5 year deal to Maclin was a larger money version of the 2 year deal signed by Cooper. Looked good on paper, but not a whole lot of guarantee beyond the short term. Instead of 5 year / $25 million of “value” it may have been 5 years / $35 million, but all fake in 2016-18 and easy for the team to cut their way out of.
The other day, after Maclin had signed his deal, Jimmy retweeted Mike Gill speculating about trading Jackson, I thought “haha that’s funny”. Then I saw this article popping up on twitter, and I was sure it would be one of Jimmy’s funny articles ridiculing what someone had said, needless to say I was disappointed when it was a serious one. Trading Desean really makes no sense to me.
Certain players seem to bring out a visceral hatred in some of the fan base, and I think it fuels these types of rumors. No one has yet answered my question as to how this makes the team better, though.
How the hell can they answer that? It simply doesn’t! Taking any weapons we can count on away from a young QB entering his most important year is a flat out Joke!…Peyton mannings can lose Decker and not skip a beat, it makes no sense to do that to FOles while he is still devloping
In the long run it makes it better because you are not overspending on 1 position. Right now the Eagles spend twice the average of what NFL teams spend on WRs.
But I do not see him traded this year, I only see him traded if:
Maclin has a breakout year (so in essence Maclin replaces Jackson)
and we have a drafted a guy like Cooks or Beckham or another WR who the coaches think fits better long terms
and we get at least 1st round pick (I think Jackson is better and more durable than Harvin and he got traded for a 1st, 3rd and 7th).
Yup..that would make more sense then talking about trading him now
You don’t get better in the NFL by trading away your best players.
When is the last time the Eagles were up against the cap? I can’t remember a time since Lurie has owned the team. Yet fans always seem to treat it as if it’s a major concern.
How about we wait to discuss trading away our best players until the salary cap is actually an issue and Lurie isn’t sitting on unspent millions every year?
The Eagles do a great job managing the cap. That enables them to keep their players. That’s the whole point of managing the cap well.
Even if we are not up against the cap, money spend on WRs is less money spend on another position.
Of course you also need players to spend that money, but in 2 years Foles most likely is going to get 15+ million, Cox getting 6+, Boykin getting 6-8 million, Kendricks getting 6 million and if Maclin has his break out season he will get around 10 million.
As said, I would only do it next year if we have replacements in place.
Also plenty teams trade away their best players, like the Vikings with Harvin or the Pats with Seymour.
The Vikings are horrible and the Pats are… unique.
While there is logic to your opinion, you are constructing a scenario that has just not happened in Philadelphia. Every year the Eagles have extra money. Is it possible that the Eagles could get into a situation where they have spent too much and have trouble signing their own players? Anything is possible. Is it probable? No, not at all. It hasn’t happened yet and there is no indication that it is going to happen in the future.
The Eagles are the team that swoops in and grabs the huge name free agents that nobody even thought they were in the running for because that’s how much extra money they always have. They are not the team that cuts/trades away players because they’ve gotten themselves in a hole.
Just got a question about something you brought up. What does Mac having a breakout year prove? That for one year outta 5 or 6 he can play up to levels that he’s expected to? For one year he’s not an underachiever? There are a few valid points to DJax being traded…and I do mean few. However I fail to see How Mac having one good year is one of them.
I would be completely and totally devastated if they traded Jackson. He is flat out my favorite guy on the team. I don’t care for some of his actions that have resulted in 15 yards flags, but his talent is far superior to anybody else in our passing attack. He sets coverage for everybody else, can be used in a variety of ways, and to be honest still hasn’t had his best season. Given a full off-season of work with Foles, I think it’s reasonable to assume that Jackson will be even more productive on a per target basis next season.
Why trade that?
I agree not to trade him as he makes this offense that much better(as you stated above) but you have to wonder — Maclin IS a good WR. Whatever expectations there are for him, his production has to come at a cost of production from DJ and Cooper. I’m not sure we can expect DJ/Cooper to have the season they had last year with Mac in the fold. This is going to be an exciting year to watch with these WR’s.
I agree that some of the production numbers are going to get shifted around with Maclin back, Ertz improved, etc. That is why I think on a per target basis, Jackson will be better even if his total numbers are the same.
excellent point. Speaking of Ertz — he’s only going to get better.
I’ll be stalking Ertz in multiple fantasy drafts. One of the local sites looked at a season of all-22s and determinted that Ertz is always open. Not Freddie Mitchell I put my hands in the air 2 seconds after the pass went elsewhere open, but really wide open.
Made sure I ended my keeper leagues with Ertz and FOles on the rosters.. For those fans who will go see the Eagles play live next year, get there early and make sure you just watch Ertz run around in warm ups..you have to really see him move in person to understand what a tremendous weapon he can be
I hope Jimmy is wrong – I do see some logic in his argument, but with Maclin only on a one year deal I do not see the WR $ allocation being a problem quite yet. Also, DeSean is VERY good – I know there are other tiny guys that can run fast in the league that can also stretch a defense, but there are only a small handful of guys that can make the change of direction plays he does – Harvin, Austin…is there anyone else even close? If they can’t get the $ right, sure – trade him – but only for real value. I would be very upset if we got an Asante like deal for him – he is WAY too young and talented to leave Philly like that. I would also point out that something like that this – trading a top player before they begin to decline – has not happened in Philly in at least a decade – maybe more…
His ability to change directions and get in and out of cuts is extremely special.
Also, I would imagine there aren’t that many guys with DeSean’s size who would put in the effort to block as well.
People are a little hard on Jimmy — he’s just doing what writers do — write something(good or bad) to get people talking about his article….it has worked.
I agree with you. He opened up a line of logic, albeit a stupid one, on Jackson. I don’t think he’s trolling the fans at all, just wrong on the topic.
Sure, it worked for Steven A. Smith too. And that’s why he is a national guy now and not the worst sportswriter in Philadelphia.
We shouldn’t applaud a lack of integrity because it leads to a bigger payday for those willing to sell out.
Agreed, especially when you write about a team with starved crazed fans, who will read anything you write anyway. Our fanbase is so crazed that you don’t have to write BS to get us to read your stories
I can see where one could view the article as a ploy to increase traffic (although the title doesn’t seem to support that motive) but I don’t think seeing this as a question of integrity is fair. From the title, to the opening paragraph, and through the conclusion Jimmy was very open about what he was doing. There were no implications of insider knowledge or unnamed sources.
I agree… by the reactions here I was starting to think I have really poor reading comprehension. I think Jimmy composed a very logical and well-thought out article, and that the tone of it was merely speculative. I do not agree with the idea of it, and do not expect DeSean to be traded this year, but I feel the theory behind it is valid. Really not sure what the big deal is.
Partially irrelevant question to this topic, but as exciting as it is to see the Eagles retain the offensive weapons for Foles, should we expect Foles to drastically improve his decision-making throws than last season? One would immediately think, “Yes, of course!” but with so many offensive weapons, it could also be overwhelming in a sense where Foles would have to time his throws right to his 2nd or 3rd receiver if the 1st receiver isn’t open, which would lead to him holding the ball longer than ideal and therefore lead to sacks and/or fumbles. I really hope Chip works with Foles in that one particular area.
Huh?
it’s the ‘too many hotties’ theory. get confused, going from one to another till 2am and left trying to sort thru the rags hanging out infront after the bar closes
I think Foles 100% needs to improve with his internal clock. I think the coaching staff will have him focus on this as well.
i think jimmy went further than just writing and wait till the right side of the coin drops to confirm or not his prognosis.
what he says makes absolute sense, coldly and logically, if you just look at the fact and forget all the context, ie dealing with human beings, and ie this being the nfl.
but this is not a world of robots and cold decisions (well, it is to an extent, but..). the many variables that a front office has to take into account when deciding whether to keep a player or not each have a different weight in the decision-making, and each variable can be opposed to one of the others.
i don’t make much sense, it’s hard for cockneys to express themselves in american english, 😉 but if you knew how clear it is in my mind. anyway. only time will tell. but i certainly don’t deem jimmy’s theory as stupid.
American English? Is there any other kind? I am pretty sure that we invented the language, and language itself when we decided to write the Declaration of Independence. Prior to that, people just communicated through grunts, hand gestures, and hitting one another.
I agree with everyone who says DeSean is a special receiver and that to dismiss him is nonsense. He’s a stud. But I wouldn’t put it past Howie if he saw an opportunity to move up in the 1st round, grab an elite receiver and use DeSean as a chip in the deal. The points Kempski makes that DeSean isn’t getting any younger and his game is dependent on speed are valid. To get a much younger, cheaper, elite talent… someone who will have 6 or so years on DeSean age-wise, it’s not far fetched to make that move.
I agree that Maclin is no replacement to DeSean. In fact, Howie’s saying as much with his unwillingness to pay Maclin the money DeSean is getting (or anything close to it) — of course, the injury is a factor. But an elite receiver from the deepest receiving class (ever) might be a replacement for DeSean.
My take is, it is still an unlikely scenario and Howie doesn’t undervalue DeSean’s contributions to the team, but come draft day, it might be the (not-so) shocker of the day.
So there’s an elite receiver on the board that is younger and would be on a rookie contract, and yet the team picking trades for DeSean and his pretty hefty contract? why?
Just like any trade down scenario… a team might think #22 and DeSean is good value, especially if they don’t have a lot of WR assets and don’t mind paying the salary.
Someone above noted that there were rumors that the Raiders were offering that trade. Not sure how true that is, but we’ve seen some teams do some irrational/strange/unexpected things.
I agree that it is unlikely. It all depends on how the Eagles (and potential trade partners) view the WR draft class. We all know it’s deep. Sammy Watkins appears to be at the top of the class. Is he an elite NFL WR? How about some of the other WRs at the top of the class? Would another team see the depth in the class as a way to great a good WR later and target another player/position at #22. All unknowns really, which adds up to a whole bunch of unlikely, but I wouldn’t put it past the Eagles to be thinking this way. Whether they can find the right trade partner is the difficult part, of course.
Since the trade subject was brought up… If DeSean Jackson is traded could the Eagles retire his number right away or would they have to wait until he retires?
I agree with Cafone and Shah8 and others, this is just silly and irritating.
It’s just a possibility. What’s there to get irritated about?
I honestly would not mind if DJax gets traded away. The guy disappears in bug games, and in the RZ. He shows questionable effort at times. He can be a prima donna, and when asked to return punts he looked like he was scared to get hit. IF they can bring in a guy that could do the same things as Jackson for less money, or get a big fast rookie in the early rounds, I would be a happy camper.