The Cheap Argument

Posted: March 10th, 2014 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 186 Comments »

Some fans have the mentality that the Eagles going after a mid-level player like Mike Mitchell instead of Jairus Byrd or TJ Ward makes them “cheap”.


I can’t stand this argument or this mentality.

Ask Jason Peters, Jason Kelce or Riley Cooper if the Eagle are cheap. The answer is going to be an unequivocal…”NO”. The Eagles spend money carefully. I’d love to say “wisely”, but some of their signings haven’t been so wise.

The point is that the Eagles do spend money. They prefer to not pay big money to a player unless it is someone they feel is special. If you pay for steak, get steak. The Eagles at one point made Jon Runyan, Donovan McNabb, Brian Dawkins, Jevon Kearse and Asante Samuel the highest paid players at their position. Some of those were signings, some extensions. The Eagles thought those were special players and they paid them accordingly.

Fans see a good player on another team and want him. They have seen the stats. The highlights. Maybe they have even watched the guy play quite a bit. They know he’s good. The question that so many miss is how will that player perform on a new team with a huge paycheck in the bank. NFL players aren’t interchangeable. A shortstop for the Royals can step on the Phillies instantly and fit. That’s not the case in football. Scheme fit is critical. And you have to factor in whether the new deal will change the player at all. History is filled with guys who relaxed once they got their mega-deal. Others didn’t relax, but were overwhelmed by the expectations that come with big money. Getting a big deal can change a player.

You don’t give out big contracts lightly. You need confidence that the signing is going to work, or that the reward is worth the risk.

Are Byrd and Ward worth $9 to $10M per year? We’ll see.

The other consideration that Howie Roseman is making is that he wants to have cap room for re-signing his own players in the future. The Eagles have a good young core in Fletcher Cox, Cedric Thornton, Brandon Boykin and Mychal Kendricks. Those guys won’t stay for free. And Howie has to be ready to hand Nick Foles a mega-deal in the near future. If Nick has another great year, you’ve got to lock him up.

Would you rather have Mike Mitchell at $5M per year and be able to keep your own guys in the future or would you rather sign Byrd/Ward and have to let Cedric Thornton go? Or some other player. You can’t keep everyone. There is a salary cap. There is a budget.

* * * * *

Someone asked about why Vinny Curry was moved to DE last year instead of having him play OLB. The simple answer is that the coaches felt he was better suited to playing DE. Jerry Azzinaro coached him at Marshall and must have felt that Curry lacked the agility to play in space. OLBs must have good feet. They line up a bit wider and start off in a 2-point stance. That comes naturally to some players, others struggle with it. Coach Azz must have felt that Curry would be best suited at DE, even in the 2-gap system. Curry does have a powerful upper body and he does use his hands well. He could eventually develop the ability to be an effective 2-gap player. He’s made for attacking in a 1-gap system, but he showed serious progress last year at holding his ground and shedding blocks. I don’t know that he’ll ever be good enough to start in the 3-4. He could still be a highly valuable role player with his inside rush skills.

I thought the Eagles should have played Curry at OLB, but they obviously felt differently.

* * * * *

When will Patrick Chung be cut? More than a few people have asked this. Might not happen til after the draft. Keeping him on the roster doesn’t mean anything. Clearly they want to upgrade the position. Cutting him now vs May or June doesn’t make a difference.


186 Comments on “The Cheap Argument”

  1. 1 Corry said at 8:07 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    As I understand it, after the success the team has had with Trash Can, the Eagles are planning to offer Orange Traffic Cone a contract to replace Chung. Probably be announced at the start of the official FA signing period. Carry Williams’ camp is quietly excited as he is less likely to be blown up by his own teammate with Traffic Cone patrolling the deep middle.

  2. 2 Cliff said at 8:10 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Even at his age, I’d take Rollins over the KC shortstop (Escobar?).

  3. 3 Mark Sitko said at 8:28 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    I can’t seem to find the numbers online but from what I understand the Eagles have $25-$20 million to spend this year (which we all know well), but far less to spend next year – like under $10 million with the current contracts on the books. I know some folks – Cole, Ryans, etc – may be gone or restructured by then but with the big Foles contract coming up could the Eagles simply not have the future $ to offer a Byrd or a Ward a multi $10 mil/year contract? Do you how that works Tommy? If they sign a large contract with a top notch free agent this year how will they look going into FA next year? This may be a major factor that keeps them from splurging right now…right?

  4. 4 sprawl said at 8:41 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Is that “under $10 million” for the current team salary cap or keeping in mind that it’s expected to rise another ~$10 million each year over the next couple years?

    The way I see it a significantly increased salary cap will lead to a general inflation of the value of new contracts at all levels meaning that the guys you sign today are going to get you more value for your $ than trying to sign the same talent a couple years down the road.

  5. 5 Mark Sitko said at 8:50 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    It may go up next year, but I don’t think it will be a $10 mil increase each time – that would be unprecedented – here is how it has increased over recent years:

    2013$123 million
    2012$120.6 million
    2011$120 million
    2009$123 million
    2008$116 million
    2007$109 million
    2006$102 million
    2005$85.5 million

    The 10 mil this year was the biggest jump ever…yes, it may continue – but as you can see there are years when it goes up 3 mil, and years it does not move. Can we rely on $10 mil increase next year?

    And even with that increase – so we would be at $20 – sign Foles…and then like I said – will we be in bad shape going into FA?

    I totally see what you are saying and it is a valid point, but I don’t think a rising salary cap fixes the problem I am talking about…we look real good this year, but next year might be a rare tight-wallet year in philly…

  6. 6 sprawl said at 9:24 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Yeah it’s risky but I wouldn’t put it past Howie and his crew to take advantage of a situation like that.

    Just trying to put it out there for discussion because it’s definitely a different argument than the folks Tommy is calling out for using the term “cheap” might put forward

  7. 7 DanJ3645 said at 9:30 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    assuming the cap stayed the same in ’15:
    cutting Cole, Demeco, Celek, Casey & Chung would free up ~$28m
    ~$3m spare currently.
    Draft picks from ’14 & ’15 adds ~$14.5m
    Bottom end roster churn replaced with draft picks save ~$4m

    So leaves ~$20m space. This is before any cap impacts from this FA period.

    Tight, but still plenty of room to manoeuvre.

  8. 8 Tom W said at 1:36 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Howie knows the cap. the myths about signing 4 kids and foles putting us up against the cap is BS. and that is even before the salary cap increases.

  9. 9 Jerry Pomroy said at 9:33 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    There are aging players on the roster right now with ballooning contracts that either need restructure, or cut/replace. So you’re probably looking at another $10M there as well. The cap is expected to rise significantly over the next 3yrs (including this coming yr) due to a new TV deal in the works. They can afford to sign a top tier player this year and also extend their own next yr. Don’t balk at the argument that they can’t. But they also can’t go buck wild signing huge contracts like they did a few years back. Foles deal will be the kicker, as we can’t talk extension with him until after next season, where his value could inflate over the course of the year if he plays well again this year.

  10. 10 Tumtum said at 10:23 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Isn’t the cap 133 this year? So to get to 140 it would only jump 7, which seems pretty par for the course according to the numbers you listed.

    For what its worth PFT had a note a while ago saying it could have a big jump again next year.

  11. 11 Eric Carranza said at 3:48 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    It’s actually supposed to go even higher since I think starting next year the money from the tv deals goes towards the cap so expect a big jump

  12. 12 Anders said at 9:03 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    With a few cuts next year, the Eagles easily have 30 million and that is not including carry over and cuts of less likely players like Celek.
    Also Foles contract can be made so it still only have a small hit in 2015 (he isnt a FA before 2016) and by 2016 we are over 150 mill in total cap, so the increase in cap between now and 16 should potential take all of Foles cap.

    The Eagles can easily afford Ward or Byrd at 10 mill, especially if they put the usually funny money years (high base salary, no guaranteed, easy to cut years)

  13. 13 Mark Sitko said at 9:07 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    how do we get to $30 mil next year exactly – do you know the specifics? I want to understand and see it for myself – who are we cutting to get to that #? A few cuts of starters is not easy to overcome…this team was functional last year but it was not like we had a ton of depth in most positions

  14. 14 Anders said at 9:41 AM on March 10th, 2014:
    cutting Cole, Casey, Chung and Graham (his contracts voids next year) gets me to +17 mill with a cap at 126, consider the cap is reported at 140, I get another 14, so 31 million in cap and I only cut 1 starter who we wants replaced anyway.
    Depending on how they play, you can cut Ryans and Williams for another 15 mill, Celek for almost 5 mill and now we are at over 50 mill in cap space. (I wouldnt cut Celek, but just to give an idea how we can get more money). Add potential higher cap than 140, carry over from this season and the Eagles have plenty cap space.

  15. 15 TheRogerPodacter said at 10:23 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    thanks for doing the research

  16. 16 Tom W said at 1:38 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    My points exactly. This whole salary cap can’t resign foles, cox, boykin, kendricks is just untrue. stop believing the lazy argument everyone.

  17. 17 Mark Sitko said at 2:48 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Thanks Anders

  18. 18 Mark Sitko said at 2:49 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    And also you have to account for the contracts we pick up in this FA…especially if we sign someone big longterm – but I see the wiggle room you are showing – makes me feel more comfortable going into next year

  19. 19 Tom W said at 1:37 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Thanks for explaining that concisely. nice work.

  20. 20 deg0ey said at 9:08 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    If that’s the number from Over The Cap, they have next year’s salary cap projected to be something dumb like $125m. You can basically add $10m to their cap space numbers for next year to get an estimate of the real amount.

  21. 21 Anders said at 9:43 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    It seems it depends on the browser, IE shows 140 for next year, while firefox and chrome show 126.
    But the rest of table is terrible in IE

  22. 22 A_T_G said at 4:13 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Then I hope the Eagles are one of the few teams working with IE.

  23. 23 Tumtum said at 10:19 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Are they still allowing cap excess to roll over?

  24. 24 Anders said at 10:21 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    It is a part of the new CBA. Other teams most likely got sick and tired of Banner doing funny contracts so he could carry over cap, so they got it in so they shouldnt move a finger.

  25. 25 philliesfan136 said at 12:05 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Lawlor is clueless…… they will have $ 25 – 30 million ( before any carry over money. ) Roster cuts – ( DeMeco ryans – $ 6.9 million , Trent Cole – $ 8.3 million, Brandon Graham – $ 1.5 million, James casey – $ 4 million ) that’s $ 20.7 million ( without possibly adding Celek and Herremans – which would add another $ 7.2 million ) 2015 adjusted salary cap with increase to $ 140 million

    2015 Eagles salary cap increase ( $ 7 million ) add to cap space
    2015 roster cuts ( $ 20.7 million ) add to cap space

    Total = approx. ( $ 27.7 million )
    Note ** this amount is WITHOUT any carry over money from the 2104 salary cap. This would be a absolute minimum of $ 5 million
    $ 27.7 million – total w/ cap increase and roster cuts
    $ 5.0 million – 2014 salary cap / carry over
    $ 32.7 million – projected 2015 available salary cap room

  26. 26 TheRogerPodacter said at 12:59 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    but you also have to factor in that cutting that many players leaves great holes in the roster. we now need THREE linebackers, two of which are starters. now, you have no choice but to pay big money to whichever FA LBs are out there. it really makes that 30 mil available seem like a lot less, especially when you are talking about the value of the guy you sign. they know they you’ll pay whatever price they want or you’ll be left with a guy like Casey Matthews starting at LB.

  27. 27 philliesfan136 said at 1:13 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    TE Casey doesn’t fit here. Trent Cole is on the downside and doesn’t fit their scheme. Brandon Graham is better off being traded and he belongs in a 4 – 3 defense. Herremans is on his last leg. All of these players can and will be replaced in the next two ( 2 ) drafts, and free agency, to a lesser extent.

  28. 28 TheRogerPodacter said at 6:00 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    i don’t argue any of those points.
    i would only ask why you would cut these players before you find someone that you know, for sure, can replace them?
    (granted, Casey seems to have already been replaced by Ertz so the team can likely move on from him at a moments notice)
    cut all of these players and now you are going into the draft with more holes in your roster than you had before. There aren’t any stud OLBs in FA, so now you HAVE to take one in the draft….

  29. 29 Tom W said at 1:42 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    draft the edge rusher this draft. draft ilb this draft. marcus or attaboy or murph — and kvn christian jones or barrow.

    draft guard this year in 5th round or wait till next yr draft in the 3d round.

    draft corner this year in the 4th to groom to replace one of our corners.

    draft colt lyeria or georgia te to replace celek or casey or do it next year.

    And still have another pick in first 3 rds to take a wr and DAT late.

  30. 30 TheRogerPodacter said at 5:57 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    but now you are drafting for NEED instead of BPA. you’re going to end up with the OLB version of danny watkins and jaquan (sp?) jarret.

  31. 31 Tom W said at 6:39 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Not drafting for need … I love both those guys in the second or third rounds and both will slip bc of wr, ot, qb depth in rd1 and overall depth of draft.

    And no one drafts blindly BPA. the better term is BUA or best upgrade available which takes into account BPA and Need so your pick has the biggest impact on your team. beyond that, if teams have a similar grade on 4 guys … OT, WR, DL and OLB. and your greater need is OLB — damn sure that team is taking the olb. Yes if the OLB is an entire tier lower than the other positiosn or 10 spots on the board lower … or a round lower … yes you take the BPA.

    Attaboy and marcus smith both have late first round grade- second grades by most scouts. KVN and christian jones have second round grades.

    Trust me marcus and attaboy and christian and kvn aren’t a 27 yr old canadian guard from a spread offense school. big schools, young guys, college production, athletes, upside, great measurables.

  32. 32 BreakinAnklez said at 2:12 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    How has shelling out $$ worked for the Phils? Bloated payroll with declining players…except NFL has a cap.

  33. 33 Mark Sitko said at 2:51 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    lawlor is clueless? what did he say that makes you think that?

  34. 34 eagleyankfan said at 8:31 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    The baseball analogy was way — way — way off the mark. I’ve seen plenty of HUGE money contracts for absolute STUD players only to see them fail on the new team. How’d that Zito guy work out?
    Second — as you said, there’s nobody in this FA class they’d want. I call hog wash. There are 4 safeties that are HUGE upgrades over the weak players on the roster now. OMG that FA is ONLY a ball hawk. ONLY? Give me a safety that is special in any shape or form. ANY sort of special is an upgrade. Stay idol at this position and the Eagles stay idol as far as progressing as a team.
    Third — please don’t spew about saving for FUTURE contracts. I get the whole cap thing but players are constantly re-structuring their contracts to stay under the cap. To say the Eagles are saving for future is garbage.
    We heard this same stuff about signing FA when Andy was here. It gets old.

    Cutting Chung makes no difference? I thought the Eagles brass do players a “favor” by cutting them early so they can latch onto a new team sooner. Waiting til the end just kind of screws that player….

  35. 35 andy said at 8:50 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    maybe they are keeping chung in case we cannot get another safety OR plans don’t work out and chung ends up better than whatever safety we “May” get….not ideal…but very possible

  36. 36 eagleyankfan said at 8:54 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    very possible. you’re right — not ideal.

  37. 37 DanJ3645 said at 9:12 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Re-structuring players contracts to gain cap room is only useful if:
    1) you are looking at a closing window for the core of the team and are 1 or 2 years from a significant rebuild,
    2) you still want that player for the full length of the contract. If not then you are just pushing dead money back a few years.

    By constant re-structuring you end up with significant dead cap space each year. At some point this will cause you to not re-sign key, young players.

  38. 38 eagleyankfan said at 9:25 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    how long until the eagles enter “constant re-structuring”?

  39. 39 DanJ3645 said at 9:36 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    In my opinion as soon as neither of the above situations are met. The only way out of it is if you have no draft picks worth resigning.

  40. 40 Tumtum said at 10:16 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    The baseball analogy was showing the need for schematic fit. Baseball FA failures are for a number of reasons. Scheme is not one of them. Sure teams put on shifts and maybe have a pitching or hitting coach that for some strange reason would try to change mechanics on a successful guy, but playing first base is playing first base. Batting is batting. Sure FAs may gain or lose protection in the line up etc. etc., but that has nothing to do with what the coaching staff is asking of players. So yeah good analogy to me.

    As far as cutting Chung goes. Yes if you absolutely know you are going to cut the guy, cut him. The Eagles usually will do that. If you need to go through FA and the draft before you know if you can really cut him, then don’t cut him. If they cut Chung now and for some crazy reason can’t get an FA safety or a safety in the draft they like before the 5th round, my god things could really get bad. Chung isn’t good, but he is better than nothing. Heck I hate my car and KNOW I am getting rid of it asap, but I am damn sure keeping it until I own a new one.

  41. 41 TheRogerPodacter said at 10:18 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    excellent analogy with the Chung & a car

  42. 42 Tumtum said at 10:25 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    I really hate my car… 🙁

  43. 43 TheRogerPodacter said at 10:35 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    so it must be a really good analogy : P

    ps, sorry about the car : (

  44. 44 A_T_G said at 4:10 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Hopefully your car doesn’t hit anything either.

  45. 45 TheRogerPodacter said at 5:55 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    chung hits players on his own team…
    Tumtum’s car hits…. Tumtum? Tumtum’s family? damn dude. you gotta get rid of this car. fast.

  46. 46 eagleyankfan said at 10:51 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    so — if football is based on scheme — and baseball isn’t, than it’s a weak analogy…

  47. 47 Tumtum said at 11:02 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    I think the entire point was that unlike in baseball there is a need for scheme fit in football….

  48. 48 eagleyankfan said at 11:15 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Agreed. But I don’t see how that point helps when there’s no way to tell how a FA (either under or overpaid) will play in Chips system. We can’t sit here and say that player is only graded a B because that’s how he plays on the Jets. Maybe in Chips scheme he will be an elite defensive player. With DE/LB’s in 4-3 and 3-4 scheme I get that — but with safeties – how do we know? How would we know if the Eagles make him the highest paid safety — he doesn’t come in and light up the world? What we do know is he’s good to very good. He’s not going to be worse coming here. Maybe he can thrive even better.
    We can’t assume it’s overpaying for him just because of the dollar amount. He may well be worth every penny. That’s where we have to trust Chip. If he spends the money he’s sees value. If he doesn’t see that kind of potential, he won’t sign him.

  49. 49 Tumtum said at 12:30 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    With ya on that for sure.

  50. 50 TheRogerPodacter said at 10:21 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    i think you are misunderstanding the discussions. no one is saying that Byrd is not a huge upgrade because of his ballhawking ability. no one is saying that Ward is not a huge upgrade because of his hitting/tackling ability.
    instead, these players are simply not worth the kind of money that you throw at a “special” talent at safety. The Dawkins, Polomalu, Reed, level players, etc.

    If we could sign Byrd or Ward at a reasonable deal, i think everyone here would be ecstatic. However, the concern is more that it is suspected that both of these players will want blockbuster deals and this brings the discussions of “are they worth that kind of money”.

  51. 51 eagleyankfan said at 10:49 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    All — All players want more than market value.

  52. 52 TheRogerPodacter said at 5:51 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    certainly. but the rate that player actually gets is determined by a large number of other factors such as the number of other players at the same position, this players performance relative to others who have signed this offseason, etc.
    this offseason, Byrd and Ward are the best talents at safety. no one is debating that. but do you pay them like the best ever just because they are the best this year? i don’t know the answer to that.

  53. 53 philliesfan136 said at 2:15 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    The point also is that if you are too incompetent to draft a great safety and have signed multiple, multiple bad safeties in free agency …….. you occasionally HAVE TO pay up for your MISTAKES, and FIX IT !!

  54. 54 deg0ey said at 9:10 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    I’d be pretty surprised if Chung is gone before camp. They can easily afford to carry his contract and there’s no point in cutting him unless/until you need the roster spot for somebody else. To be honest, depending on how the market shakes out I wouldn’t object to keeping him as a #4 safety in case of injuries. He’s not a guy anyone should feel comfortable starting, but he’s probably still better than most backups.

  55. 55 eagleyankfan said at 9:28 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    the world needs ditch diggers…

  56. 56 Anders said at 9:36 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Agree, that is the same reason I always shake my head over peoples mock off seaons at BGN where they wants to cut everybody who isnt a starter just because he “sucks”. They just forget that we safe zero money in the long run and we need camp bodies.

  57. 57 TheRogerPodacter said at 10:16 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    yea, as much as i hated his play as a starter, he does have value here as a backup.
    if we already have his contract for the year, and are willing to continue paying it for this season, why not keep him?

    The question then becomes one of ST contributions. I can’t recall if Chung participated on ST, but i think that is absolutely something you should expect from the #4 safety on the team. If the #4 safety spot came down to Chung, Anderson, and Coleman, I think Chung would be my last resort. (i’m assuming that Chung does not participate much on STs because i can’t remember it happening)

    I also view Chung and Wolff to be about equals, at least as far as I could see last season. Assuming we do sign 2 FA safeties, i’d be comfortable with Wolff as the number 3 or even competing for the starting job.

  58. 58 brza said at 9:45 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    One thing that nobody seems to be considering about all of this is that the Eagles have always been real tight-lipped about FA signings. Honestly, when was the last time real information tying us to a FA that we ended up signing was leaked? Information “leaks” all the time about the Eagles covetting a certain FA or being close to signing them, like Winston last year, but those guys are almost never signed. Then we get signings out of left field, like Casey or Nnamdi, where nobody thought we were interested or even had a chance.
    Now this may change with the new coaching regime or the legal tampering but it didn’t last year when legal tampering was first allowed. So until it does change and an information leak on the FA front turns out to be true then I’m just gonna sit back and wait to be surprised.

  59. 59 Tumtum said at 9:59 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    In 2011 it was pretty known they were going to spend BIG. I remember John Clayton in particular saying that the Iggs were going to go after **multiple** big name FAs.

  60. 60 ICDogg said at 10:39 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    In general, though, I think they’re pretty good about keeping most of this stuff under the radar.

  61. 61 ICDogg said at 9:50 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    The Eagles obviously need to get a starting safety and possibly two in free agency. I assume they are going to re-sign Donnie Jones, and that means that all positions are filled with someone who is at least quasi-acceptable.

    Most of the top FA market is grade B players looking for grade A money. And if you want your team to spend like that, you should probably be a Skins fan.

  62. 62 Tumtum said at 10:02 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Last year B guys were getting C and D money. The cap jumped this year. Do you think that is going to flip this year or it will play out similar to last year?

  63. 63 ICDogg said at 10:35 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Lots of B guys got A money last year. I listed a bunch of guys who got 16M plus guarantees last year in the last post. How many of them were worth it?

  64. 64 philliesfan136 said at 12:39 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    If you can afford it and you have got the money in your pocket and your at the bar, are you going to drink a Heineken or are you going to drink Old Milwaukee ?

  65. 65 Tumtum said at 12:40 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Please see my above post.

  66. 66 eagleyankfan said at 11:08 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    The difference is spending wisely. I don’t think the money spent on Cooper was wise. I don’t think he’s worth it. He’s a good player but that’s about it. They can overspend on wr 3 in Cooper by not at safety? I think there’s a fine line. I don’t know the line. :). It’s a tightrope act.

  67. 67 ICDogg said at 11:12 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    I think when you look at the details of Cooper’s deal it is not that out of line.

    In essence this is a two year $9 million contract where Cooper has to prove he belongs as a secondary target. In terms of annual value Cooper ranks well behind Brian Hartline ($6 million) and Danny Amendola ($5.7 million) the two who seemed to be the standard bearers for the secondary WR’s last year. His guarantees are about what Amendola received.

  68. 68 eagleyankfan said at 11:19 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    I get all that. I think they could find a wr, who also fits the system, for less money. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy Cooper a great deal on the field and I want him on the team. With Mac — Cooper isn’t a number 2, he’s number 3. Hartline and Amendola were overpaid for IMHO.

  69. 69 austinfan said at 11:38 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Cooper finished 32nd in receiving yards for a WR.
    And was in the top 15 in TDs.
    So I’d say he’s a pretty solid #2.

  70. 70 eagleyankfan said at 11:56 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Yes — without Maclin. He can’t keep those numbers up with Maclin in the fold.

  71. 71 ICDogg said at 11:59 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Depends on how many snaps he gets. But I see no reason to expect him to be any less efficient.

  72. 72 austinfan said at 9:21 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    So you’re saying with 3 starting caliber WRs they’ll struggle to put up the same numbers as if we only had 2 starting caliber WRs?

    Because Cooper put up his numbers as the #2 to the guy who was fifth in yards, and in a run oriented offense.

  73. 73 Tumtum said at 9:57 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    A short stop can play anywhere but would Ervin Santana fit on the Os!?! I kid. Not sure I am over the moon for him like a lot of Os fans, but I digress…back on topic.

    A quote I have heard a few times, but specifically remember from Jim Washburn. He was asked something along the lines of why he would come to the Eagles. He said something to the effect of; “It might not always work out but their going to get you players. Their not afraid to open the checkbook and get you guys that you want.” The “their cheap!!” argument from Eagles fans has always baffled me. Being an Orioles fan I know what cheap ownership really means. At least I thought I did until this off season…

    Also don’t know if I am so sold on Mitchell. Someone made a pretty good argument in a recent discussion about who his INTs were against, and possibility of just being a very good schematic fit (as you stress for importance here) in Carolina. Though I sort of have the Ervin Santana stance with him. Don’t REALLY want him, but if we get him I’ll be happy enough.

  74. 74 Eagles4Life said at 10:38 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Tommy, let’s not act like Mike Mitchell who you yourself just called mid-level is a better option for us than a TJ Ward or Jairus Byrd. I can get more of an argument on questions of Byrd and his future than Ward, but let’s not be foolish here. When you have a glaring need and a guy is there that can repair a problem as opposed to putting some masking tape over it, you sign him. Period.

  75. 75 Neil said at 10:41 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Per dollar, yes, Mitchell does seem to be a better option. Most of that is the fact that you wouldn’t have to commit to him for more than 2 years, maybe 1. However, if the eagles disagree they will go after one of the big names. You just have to recognise that you don’t just chase the best player, you go for value.

  76. 76 Eagles4Life said at 10:50 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    I don’t disagree. I actually think Byrd is a better player than Ward, but I think Ward would give us the most value. The thing with Mitchell is he was a one year wonder playing behind arguably the best front 7 in football. I didn’t see anything special looking at the tape. Honestly, he doesn’t look spectacular in coverage (he’s ok) and he misses tackles. We had Chung do that last season. If you’re only getting incrementally better at the safety position when there is a clearly better value out there, it makes no sense not to do it. The fact you said we may only have to commit to 1 or 2 years shows the lack of value.

  77. 77 Neil said at 10:59 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Yeah, that’s true. But with a guy we have to commit to for 3 years, we can’t afford to be wrong about the value. And even if you aren’t wrong, I think Tommy’s point about losing someone like Thornton is well taken. I don’t feel good about paying that much to a FA unless he’s a better slamdunk than I see either of the top two guys as. I think the eagles will want to sacrifice here a bit with a guy like Mitchell to stay flexible, but if they agree with your value assessment they’ll go your way.

  78. 78 Eagles4Life said at 11:21 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    I can take that point to a degree, but there’s no NFL team that keeps ALL their players at every position. Thornton is a great run defender, but not a stellar pass rusher. There’s guys in this draft that we could probably start over him. He’s not breaking the bank to be re-signed; he’s not a blue chip guy, but he can play…no knock on him. As for safety, we’re talking about a position where we can’t even label anyone on our current roster a “great role player” lol. Mitchell doesn’t even fit that bill and he’s going to come at a higher price than simply re-signing Nate Allen.

  79. 79 Neil said at 11:46 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    I think Mitchell proved he’s a more than capable starter in a decent situation. He put up star numbers in a loaded defense and was a dud in a dysfunctional Oakland defense. Clearly the talent is a step down in Philly from Carolina, but this is still a pretty good situation for a safety. Defensive line 2 gaps and is loaded with talent, pretty good linebackers and some good corners. If we got him and Nate Allen I could feel comfortable with the safety situation not ruining the defense. Obviously, we’d like more than that but not for the price (and risk) associated with bringing in Byrd or Ward. As Austinfan points out, Byrd might just be the same beneficiary of a ton of talent around him. The Browns have a lot of talent on D as well.

  80. 80 Eagles4Life said at 12:00 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    What makes him better than a Nate Allen? That’s my bottom line. Scheme was different, so Mitchell got to blitz more. There’s safeties that can get sacks like that, and there’s true playmakers, i.e. Honey Badger. I think Mitchell is marginally better than Allen, which really doesn’t warrant us spending more money for him.

  81. 81 Neil said at 1:43 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Yeah, money is definitely up for debate. I don’t know enough to say he is particularly better than Nate Allen. However, it seems to me, based on what the best safeties are asking, two Nate Allens for reasonable pay is probably the best approach, whoever those players end up being. If you can find a better player at good value, though, go for it.

  82. 82 D3FB said at 12:52 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    However Thorton is a perfect scheme fit. The role of a 34 DE is to stop the run first and foremost, and then try to get after the quarterback. Pass rushing is far less important from that position. If you have a guy that can do it a bit, that helps but Ceddy is a high quality two gapper, which helps make this scheme run. As far as players in the draft who could start over him, I would say Hageman and Tuitt would be the only ones who would have a better than even money chance and both would likely take til the end of the season to beat him out for time.

  83. 83 Eagles4Life said at 1:09 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    I understand the difference in our 34 scheme versus others, but I’m talking about more in the realm of versatility. You’re going to pay more for a guy that can do both as opposed to one who can’t. Ced is replaceable in the nickel, which was our bugaboo last season anyway; no one getting home on third downs. I’m not advocating getting rid of him at all, just saying that his next contract ain’t breaking the bank by any means, so I don’t see Tommy’s argument in mentioning him as one of our “we’re gonna have to cowboy up some cash to keep him” guys.

  84. 84 D3FB said at 1:41 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    It’s more of a collective thing. Ceddy is probably going to cost 4-5 million a year, Boykin will probably get around 6. If Cox and Kendricks continue to improve they will be looking at deals at around the 8 million mark each. That right there is ballpark 25 million and then you have Foles who is going to require 15+.

  85. 85 Eagles4Life said at 1:50 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Celek(maybe), Casey, Cole, Graham, Chung and a few others will likely come off the books as well. There’s an ebb and flow with the whole thing. We don’t become instantly hamstrung by spending this offseason.

  86. 86 austinfan said at 11:35 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Byrd is also playing behind a great DL the last couple years, Mario (13 sacks), Kyle Williams (10.5 sacks), Hughes (10 sacks),Dareus (7.5 sacks). Jim Leonard, who only started six games at S, had 4 interceptions as did Alonso at MLB, same as Byrd.

    So the question becomes the same with Byrd as Mitchell, how much of his performance was due to a great pass rush and fast CBs (McKelvin, 20 PD, Gilmore).

  87. 87 Eagles4Life said at 11:56 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    That’s when you go to the film. When Buffalo was blocked up, you still saw Byrd making plays and influencing bad decisions by QBs…can’t really say the same about Mitchell.

    As for Ward (who I’m more interested in signing), he had man coverage responsibilities on TEs, slot receivers, played the run, and was good in zone etc. He was like Chung on roids lol. If you know you can get that from a player, you sign him.

  88. 88 philliesfan136 said at 12:51 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Now we are going to start Quantifying interceptions ? What’s next WR touchdowns, are not that great if the receiver was wide open ? Sacks are not that great if the LB or DE wasn’t blocked ?

  89. 89 Neil said at 1:39 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    That’s pretty reasonable and exactly what scouts consider when watching a player, yes.

  90. 90 BreakinAnklez said at 2:49 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    HA. Yes. You always need to quantify statistics. A DE who gets 5 sacks against a 1AA team and 3 the rest of the year might not be as good a pass rusher as his stats indicate.

  91. 91 Maggie said at 7:55 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    And the Bills still didn’t win.

  92. 92 philliesfan136 said at 12:47 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Neil ……. They don’t bring a F_____ing ” VALUE ” trophy out onto the field, at the Super Bowl !! They have the F_____ing money ! They don’t give trophies out in the NFL for the best value signings in free agency. This whole thing about ” value players ” blows my mind !!

  93. 93 TheRogerPodacter said at 12:54 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    so youre saying that you’d be OK with handing Byrd or Ward a 10 Mil per year contract? what about 15 mil? 20 mil? at some point, even you have to draw a line to say how much any given player is worth. this is exactly what the FO is going to do and we won’t know what that number is until the player signs with us or another team and details leak out.

  94. 94 philliesfan136 said at 1:06 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Of course there is a line drawn with everything. No I wouldn’t sign Byrd or Ward for $ 10 million per year. Overspending, as a rule, is dumb, and unrealistic, but I am F_____ing tired of watching the GARBAGE safeties that they have either DRAFTED, or signed, as FREE AGENTS! The last 5 years since Dawkins was let go have been terrible to watch. They have PROVEN that they can not draft a safety, and they have not been able to sign a quality one in free agency either. Spend the money and FIX the position !

  95. 95 TheRogerPodacter said at 5:45 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    apparently, Byrd wants more than 8M per year.

    so we agree we shouldn’t spend $10M per year on Byrd, but what about 8.5? what about 9?
    at some point we have to look at him and say “he ain’t worth it” and walk away.

  96. 96 Maggie said at 7:54 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Are his bad feet worth that much money? Why didn’t the Bills win with him? Because football is a team sport? byrd/ward is not the messiah.

  97. 97 Neil said at 1:56 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Ah, but if you go for value you can fit more talent per dollar, theoretically. And having as much space as the eagles do is valuable because we might not be too keen on Ward or Byrd right now, but we might draft a safety who emerges as a force or one might be on the market in a year or two.

  98. 98 ICDogg said at 10:56 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Bonus points to whomever adds a Heineken vs. Pabst Blue Ribbon analogy to compare free agents.

  99. 99 eagleyankfan said at 11:03 AM on March 10th, 2014:


  100. 100 ICDogg said at 11:08 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Probably would have to include “For the price of 2 Heineken I can get 4 PBRs and still have enough left over for some Funyuns.”

  101. 101 eagleyankfan said at 11:28 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    any bonus points if we throw in an analogy that includes M. Fox?

  102. 102 A_T_G said at 3:58 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Only if it includes a visual aid.

  103. 103 Tumtum said at 12:38 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    See Heineken is a perfect example of over paying FA. You are totally getting chicken, and paying steak money. 4 PBRs totally fit my scheme. The Heineken will be like a center playing S.

  104. 104 TheRogerPodacter said at 12:50 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    hmm. i tend to follow the eagles trend in FA with my beer.
    buy the stuff thats not too expensive, but tastes good enough so that i’m not drinking bud/coors/miller

  105. 105 Maggie said at 7:52 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Pabst Blue Ribbon is brewed by Sleeman Breweries of Guelph, Ontario

    Through partnerships with other major brewers, Molson Coors Canada also offers a diverse portfolio of beer brands, including Coors Light, Corona, Miller Genuine
    Draft, Heineken, Foster’s.

  106. 106 philliesfan136 said at 12:54 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Between 2010 and 2013 Howie Roseman signed a case worth of Shitz.

  107. 107 Maggie said at 7:50 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Pabst Blue Ribbon is brewed by Sleeman Breweries of Guelph, Ontario
    (although credited as ‘Stroh Canada’ on the labeling).

    Through partnerships with other major brewers, Molson Coors Canada also offers a diverse portfolio of beer brands, including Coors Light, Corona, Miller Genuine Draft, Heineken, Foster’s Lager and Tiger.

  108. 108 Mac said at 11:47 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    They might be waiting to see how Chung’s shoulder heals and what he is capable of doing this year.

  109. 109 austinfan said at 11:47 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Look at FA prices this year as a reflection of the first increase in the cap in 5 years, and it’s expected to increase by about 5% a year for the next few years (a certain chunk of increased revenues goes to health and retirement benefits, not the cap, the rank and file of players know they benefit more from benefits than a higher cap, since they’re minimum wage guys).

    So figure this year’s jump of $10M is about 8%, and another 10% over the first three years of a new deal (most NFL deals are 3 year deals with fluff, especially with the new trend to give guaranteed salary instead of bonuses to limit out year dead money), you’d expect deals to be about 10-15% higher than the last few years.

    Still, that means a $7M safety is now a $8M safety, not a $9+M safety.
    Griffen was overpaid, you’d figure him to be a $5-6M in the past, or $5.5-7M in today’s market.
    Cooper’s $9M for two years, would be equivalent to $8M for two years, which is very reasonable for a #2 WR. Peters is also a reasonable deal.

    So a $2-3M safety is still a $2.2-3.5M safety, not a $4-5M safety.
    In other words, we shouldn’t pay $9M for Byrd or Ward, and we shouldn’t pay $5M for Mitchell.

  110. 110 ICDogg said at 11:54 AM on March 10th, 2014:

    Good points but I think that any time there is this type of expansion in cap, the rich get richer, so to speak. So the topmost guys get bigger increases than the midrange guys and the lower guys don’t even get increases.

  111. 111 philliesfan136 said at 12:32 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    I think football fans are forgetting that the salary cap is not just to restrict the teams from spending too much money ….. it is also there to assure that the teams spend a Minimum amount of money too. Remember the salary cap guarantees that each team must spent 95 % of their cap over a 4 year period. That means that each team must spend at least a $ 126 million dollars on average over the next 4 years. The owner will get $ 140 million next year, to put in his pocket, and he will get another $ 140 million to spend on the teams salary cap.

  112. 112 D3FB said at 12:40 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Each team has to spend at least 89% over the four year period. The league as a whole has to spend 95%.

  113. 113 philliesfan136 said at 1:14 PM on March 10th, 2014:


  114. 114 Maggie said at 7:45 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    No $140 million goes into the owner’s pocket.

  115. 115 ICDogg said at 12:05 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Eagles are apparently inquiring about Colts S Antoine Bethea as well as CB Nolan Carroll from the Dolphins.

  116. 116 philliesfan136 said at 12:10 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Bethea will be 30 in July …… bleh. Nolan …. ahh

  117. 117 DamonL86 said at 12:34 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Please no to Carroll gets burnt most of the time.

  118. 118 Mike Roman said at 12:07 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    I don’t have any numbers to back this up but I feel like the Eagles like to stick to around $15M left in unused money. Having a cushion is what helps in signing your homegrown talent to extensions and still being able to make a splash in free agency. I get the argument that we can afford Byrd when you factor in how much we’re over the cap now + the cap increasing next year + releasing hig priced veterans. At the same time, we’re going to need to shell out money for Boykin, Kendricks, Cox, etc.., not to mention a pretty big contract for Foles. I guess really, only Howie knows if we can afford to do that and add Byrd. I will say that I am in favor of signing him. I know we can add a mid tier player at that position and still upgrade over last year, BUT, I am of the belief that you need a play maker back there. There are very few difference making safeties in the league so I think if you have a chance to get one, go do it.

  119. 119 philliesfan136 said at 12:17 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Forget about the signings this year for a second. I really, really like boykin, but he is a nickel corner ( won’t be a back breaking contract extension ) What has Kendricks and Cox done to be sooooo hyped up for these BIG contract extensions ? They don’t have to make a huge commitment to Foles next year, they can franchise him for one year if they want. They will have a minimum of $ 30 million in cap space next year. Count on it.

  120. 120 TheRogerPodacter said at 12:47 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    i would imagine that a long-term deal for Foles would actually be less of a cap hit than a franchise tag. i don’t know the number, but i would guess the franchise tag rate for QBs would be quite high, with guys like Peyton making like $20 mil in a season…

  121. 121 D3FB said at 1:01 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    I believe it’s 18.

  122. 122 philliesfan136 said at 1:15 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    This is true, i was just talking about long term commitment wise. But, you are totally correct.

  123. 123 Mike Roman said at 12:53 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    You bring up a good point. Even if we lock those guys up with extensions, none of those contracts should break the bank — unless either Cox or Kendricks has a breakout year. And honestly, I’ll be a bit disappointed if Cox doesn’t.

  124. 124 philliesfan136 said at 1:25 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Exactly, and if they do blow up and have pro bowl years, pay them.

  125. 125 Maggie said at 7:42 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Here’s a little bit about a “difference maker” last year, Also a safety. Also a reason for caution:

    ‘Goldson had a tough year in Tampa a season ago, riddled by 15 yard “hitting too hard” penalties and the impact that a new defensive system has on a safety coming in from another team. So does he
    belong as a long-term part of the franchise?

    The biggest concern for me is the fact that Mark Barron is turning himself into a younger, and possibly better, version of Dashon Goldson. Both love to play downhill, both struggle when asked to cover large amounts of space in the deep passing game.

    Goldson’s dominant trait is his closing speed, which unfortunately the league’s safety initiative has made less important in a defender’s arsenal.’

    This was on a Bucs blog.

  126. 126 ICDogg said at 12:22 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Eagles do not appear to be involved in the TJ Ward sweepstakes at this time.— Tim McManus (@Tim_McManus) March 10, 2014

  127. 127 Tumtum said at 12:32 PM on March 10th, 2014:


  128. 128 philliesfan136 said at 12:33 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    According to what source …….. McManus ? The Eagles ( Howie ) ???

  129. 129 Tumtum said at 12:38 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    My guess is the agent.

  130. 130 philliesfan136 said at 1:22 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Tumtum ….. do you think it helps the players / agents free agency position ( trying to get the most money ) by telling journalists that teams are dropping out of the bidding for your client ? Why would he want to make other teams think that there are less bidders ? Now consider whether ” Howie ” might ( leak ) information to McManus, to LOWER the Eagles fans expectations, because they might not sign a certain player ? Makes much more sense to me.

  131. 131 Anders said at 2:09 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    McManus is actually one of the best Eagles writers. He had Chip Kelly signing before everybody else

  132. 132 mark2741 said at 12:54 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    I turned on the local “sports talk” radio station (yeah that one) this AM for a minute while driving, in order to catch any free agency news. Instead of breaking news/providing insight, I heard some blowhard come on and say, “Will the Eagles spend the money? What do you think?” That was followed by a stream of idiots calling Lurie cheap. I thought to myself that a better way would be to quit talking about FA in terms of cash, because in a salary cap sport like football cash is irrelevant. They all have cash. The question needs to be, “Should the Eagles use up their valuable salary cap space now?” The average fan still thinks in terms of cash coming from an owner’s pocket, and the stereotypical cheap owner. Mistake.

  133. 133 TheRogerPodacter said at 1:02 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    i don’t know how anyone can listen to that crap on the radio. it just ends up being a bunch of people that get all riled up listening so they call in and bitch about it to get other people riled up and keep the cycle going. lol

  134. 134 D3FB said at 1:07 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    The best is when they come up with ridiculous trade ideas and think they are on to something. “We should trade our seventh and Damaris Johnson to the Lions for Megatron, they need a slot receiver and we need big fast players to win”

  135. 135 TheRogerPodacter said at 5:40 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    they are probably the same people that post threads on the EMB crying to sign brian urlacher lol

  136. 136 Maggie said at 7:33 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    I never could get that bit about a professional sports business somehow paying cash out of the owners pocket. It’s not even legal! The IRS would go ballistic.

  137. 137 Mike Roman said at 1:06 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    In reference to Williams and Fletcher:

    “While neither
    performed spectacularly, both were effective starters. Good enough to “get
    the job done”, at least.”

    Can somebody tell me how the Eagles
    finished 32nd in the league in pass defense and most people will say
    that Willams and Fletcher are “good enough”?

  138. 138 Tumtum said at 1:09 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Safties, teams going pass happy to keep up, etc.

  139. 139 Mike Roman said at 1:16 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Yeah, I do get that but you have to look at your starting corners when you’re giving up nearly 300 yards per game. Williams, especially seems to give up a a lot of easy completions.

  140. 140 Dominik said at 1:47 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    + Williams and Fletcher are good press corners (at least they were before they got here), but you can’t press with Chung “patrolling” (lol) the middle…

  141. 141 philliesfan136 said at 1:23 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Piss poor, pathetic safety play !

  142. 142 Sean Stott said at 1:48 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    The Eagles defense played more snaps than any other defense. Wow, it’s magic.

  143. 143 Mike Roman said at 2:47 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    I hear ya but that’s an overly simplistic explanation. That does come into play, as does the poor safety play. But that doesn’t mean that Williams and Fletcher were any more than adequate, and Williams was barely so. I will give this to Williams, he would give up 8 yard completions all day long and then suddenly make a break up at just the right time. Just wish there would be more consistency.

  144. 144 D3FB said at 1:52 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Part of the bend don’t break philosophy was for the corners to allow receptions in front of them, several of the games we opened large leads forcing the other teams to try and throw their way back into it. The Denver game in general.

  145. 145 Mike Roman said at 2:47 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Please don’t remind me of the Denver game.

  146. 146 Anders said at 2:09 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Because there is more to pass defense than yards?

    Outside of yards, we are not near the bottom

  147. 147 Mike Roman said at 2:30 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    I won’t argue that there is more to pass defense than yards, but we’re still ranked no higher than 15th in any category, which is average. I don’t think we are “good enough” at the CB position. Well, i think Fletcher is good enough and Williams is “kinda adequate”. I guess it comes down to a person’s definition of “good enough” or “effective”.

  148. 148 Sean said at 2:36 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    It’s worth noting from that chart that the Bills did lead the league in opposing Comp%, as well as the fact that the Eagles faced more pass attempts than any other team.

  149. 149 austinfan said at 9:16 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Because they had a horrible first 4 games when they were integrating a lot of new players into a new defensive scheme.

    After that, they had a pass defense as good as Buffalo with Byrd, Williams, McKelvin and Gilmore and a great pass rush.

  150. 150 Tom W said at 1:32 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Same tired arguments w little support or basis in reality

    1) byrd and ward are both all pros and probowlers … not merely good players. you wanna wish they were dawkins or ed reed, okay … but that doesn’t mean they aren’t great at their positions. Byrd is a top 4 safety out of 64 starters and Ward is probably top 12. and most importantly, and what directly refutes the lame “just good” argument — Byrd would be the top FA safety every year … just like last year and this year and next year … unless berry or thomas was available. And you know what …top young players almost never become free agents …and you know what else … we won’t have a chance to get a stud safety for a couple yrs bc they are all locked up (and thomas will be soon).

    This historical argument about all time great safeties is a joke because the rules have changed to limit the physicality of the safeties in the middle of the field, the hardening of pass interference rules, and the growth of the Big TEs. safeties have more responsibilities and their jobs are harder. doesn’t mean the safeties are worse now than 10 yrs ago … just means the game has changed again …and the the rules bent against them.

    2) Please stop w the salary cap argument. Its lazy. Its not true. We can sign byrd and We can easily sign foles, cox, kendricks, and boykin in the next 1-3 yrs. You know why?? because we are 25 mil under and can carry over ten even if we sign byrd and the kids in the draft. The cap is going to increase 10 mil each year for next 2-3 yrs. and most importantly, the natural attrition of older players like cole, herramins, celek, cary and demeco over the next 1-3 yrs frees up a shitload of money to sign the kids. Like almost 32 million each yr for next 2-3 yrs. Cole and Todd could pay for Foles alone. and don’t forget about parting ways from graham. thats another 4 mil. Finally, cox and kendricks still need to show a lot more before we are handing them big longterm deals.

    3) If the market wants to overpay for Byrd … that makes sense. let them. Howie never said he wouldn’t go after an elite player … he would pay an A player, A money, just not A+. Raiders or dolphins want to give Byrd 10-11 mil a year w 30 guaranteed, let him walk. But don’t give me these lame bs company lines that we won’t be able to resign the kids bc its bs. and dont tell me byrd and ward aren’t the best or near the best in the NFL TODAY. they are. maybe not HOFers but that comparison is ridiculous. We can make a fair market offer of the top 3 safeties for Byrd and top 12 safeties for Ward. 5 for 45 w 20 mil guaranteed for Byrd … 5 for 38 w 16 mil guaranteed for ward. If other shitty teams beat that, and they take it … fine I won’t lose sleep. but lets not sit here w our heads in the sand.

  151. 151 kajomo said at 2:11 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    You know how Dawkins, Reed, Polamolu, E. thomas, Chancellor, and even Byrd/Ward became top safeties in the NFL? They played well for the teams that drafted them.

    How many elite safeties played at an elite level on a new team?

    We find a stop gap, draft well, and most importantly develope these players the right way. Not the quickest or sexiest answer, but probably the correct one.

  152. 152 GEAGLE said at 2:35 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    You would have a point if you weren’t talking about two JOKE franchises who are basically minor league feeder organizations…How did NOT drafting Jason Peters or Runyan work out for you….

    I keep hearing how we won’t pay for anyone, yet we handed out 30mil I’m Guarentees last year and people still act like we went shopping in a Bargin Bin…

    All generalizations are worthless, lazy, trash..every player, every situation. Every timing is Unique…what happened in previous years don’t mean a damn a thing…
    If we spending Millions on a safety, I would prefer it NOT being the safety that missed one out of every 5 tackles, who didn’t accomplish a damn thing before his contract year, but maybe that’s just me

  153. 153 A Roy said at 3:13 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    I’m impressed that Peters and Runyan were both able to play the Safety position. Must’ve been the fact they are very tall.
    I’m confident that, if the Eagles felt that Byrd would is and would remain a top 4 safety for the next 4-5 years, they would pursue him. If they don’t, it’s because they don’t want just a center fielder but rather someone who can play well in the box, too. And as someone with plantar fasciitis, I understand why they might shy away for medical reasons, too.

  154. 154 GEAGLE said at 3:49 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Hahah so safety is some super special position? Lol keep up the worthless lazy generalizations, you will get far

  155. 155 A Roy said at 4:11 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    No, it’s just that he was using FA safeties and oyu brought up everything but.

  156. 156 Maggie said at 7:30 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    I’m afraid in a battle of wits, you are fighting an unarmed boy.

  157. 157 Maggie said at 7:29 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Upvote many times.

  158. 158 Tom W said at 3:24 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Elite players .. don’t typically become free agents to begin with because they play for well run organizations who lock them up early … unlike buffalo and cleveland.

    Not many elite safeties let alone any elite player have left their original teams to begin with bc after rookie deal expires their own teams resign them. Saying nothing about players who hit free agency, but more so best of best get resigned UNLESS they end up on a shitty franchise that doesn’t resign them … like Runyan, Freak, Samuel, Peppers … if its gets to that point w most teams .. the stud player gets franchised or pissed off bc he didn’t get a new deal and traded …

    So when you when the unique chance like you do this year w shitty franchises making stud players available in byrd, ward, and or verner … you make an exception, realize the guys are young, and grab one of them.

  159. 159 Maggie said at 7:28 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Please don’t pay any attention to a couple of people on here who are always right and everybody else is stupid. You have just as much right to your opinion as any one else. Besides, at least one of those people keeps changing the players he claims to be right about. One day it’s the biggest splashiest player must simply be signed, the next day it’s no, develop the raw rookies for a couple of years. One day it’s how great a young NT is and the next it’s sign a different one. Comment as much as you like, we are all here for our own amusement. No front office of any professional sports team is actually reading this stuff anyway. They go right on doing business, working up their big board for months, deciding how to spend the money, etc. with no input from pouting fans who have widely differing opinions anyway.

  160. 160 GEAGLE said at 3:51 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Crazy isn’t it? Heck we can’t even get people to analyze Ward correctly, just lazy bulshit. He hits hard, must be another Bernard pollard lol smh. Can’t wait til it’s all over so we can stop readying the madness

  161. 161 GEAGLE said at 2:32 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Eagles will sign:
    Malcom Jenkins
    Corey Graham, replace Colt Anderson, DB versatility, ST leader
    Alex Carrington DL rotation (if we can’t get Carrington, we will sign Al woods to compete with Logan)

    Bruce Cambell athletic OG
    Chris Cooks replaces Curtis Marsh as our rehabilitation high reward project
    Jammari Lattimore. ILB depth. ST play
    Donnie Longball deal is waiting to be announced

    If a QB is added it would be one of the 3: Jason Cambell, Terrell Pryor, Josh Freeman

    A kicker will be added to compete with henrey (not a big name that will make everyone happy)
    Those are your eagles free agent signings..nothing left to see! Lol

  162. 162 GEAGLE said at 3:50 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    And props to whoever gave me the Bruce Cambell signing, sorry I needed to swaggerjack him

  163. 163 SteveH said at 3:02 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    We haven’t cut yet Chung because we’re still trying to get something for him. Duh.

  164. 164 ICDogg said at 3:29 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Get something for him? How about a plane ticket home?

  165. 165 A Roy said at 4:10 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    And perhaps Madden NFL 14 as a nice parting gift…

  166. 166 GEAGLE said at 8:02 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Chung confirmed to me that he played thru a bad shoulder injury all year as I suspected….Thanked him for warrioring thru the injury for us and that it was obvious, and he thanked me and said wish everyone else realized it.,l.THATS WHY Chung hasn’t been cut yet, and why he WONT be getting cut!

  167. 167 Sifter said at 3:03 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    One thing about the Eagles being ‘cheap’ is that it allows you to hit more positions in free agency and frees you up in the draft. I think of last year when the Eagles signed a lot of mid-level FAs in the secondary: Williams, Fletcher, Chung, Phillips – not real big money to any of them. Everyone was baying for new secondary blood last year and going cheaper allowed more holes to be covered. We can argue about how effectively those holes are filled of course…it’s just a strategy – and no strategy is always right or always wrong.

    The other side-effect of going cheap is that you can truly go BPA in the draft. Imagine signing the biggest name pass rusher on the market to a big contract in FA, then on draft day you find sitting at #22 in the draft a pass rusher than you really like who has fallen further than first thought. Apparently most GMs would still go BPA and take the pass rusher, but I call BS on that (BPA is relative to YOUR draft board and needs, not who is next highest on MIke Mayock’s list). Anyway…I don’t think the Eagles would have had any problem drafting secondary early in the draft last year, despite signing all those new players, because none of them broke the bank. There’d be no qualms about drafting someone when you haven’t invested heavily in the position.

  168. 168 ICDogg said at 3:27 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Aaaand we have some Vegas over-unders.

    Here are CG’s 2014 win totals for each NFL team:

    49ers, Broncos, Seahawks: 11 wins

    Packers, Patriots: 10 wins.

    Saints: 9.5 wins.

    Bengals, Colts, Steelers: 9 wins.

    Bears, Eagles, Panthers, Ravens, Texans: 8.5 wins

    Chargers, Chiefs, Cowboys, Falcons, Lions: 8 wins

    Dolphins: 7.5 wins

    Cardinals, Giants, Redskins: 7 wins

    Bills, Browns, Buccaneers, Jets, Rams, Titans, Vikings: 6.5 wins.

    Raiders: 5 wins.

    Jaguars: 4.5 wins.

  169. 169 A Roy said at 4:09 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    What odds for parlaying Eagles over and Cowdogs under?

  170. 170 A_T_G said at 5:33 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    I am glad these were released now. Hopefully they will be updated in real time. That way, we will have a definitive answer as to what value each FA signing brings to the team.

    Byrd: 8.5 –> 11.5
    Jenkins: 11.5 –> 12.5
    Verneer: 12.5 –> 13.5
    Jones: 13.5 –> 18.5.

    At that point, we can probably sit back and wait for the season to start.

  171. 171 GEAGLE said at 3:56 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Mike Mitchell is going to be a deadskin, we have to find another bum to sign lol

  172. 172 GENETiC-FREAK said at 4:03 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    haha man reading the comments on here about signing future contracts to Cox, Kendricks etc to 7-9mil range but when its Byrd oh no thats too much?? Like i mentioned in my previous post on other article if Byrd or Ward were Eagles already would you resign them for that price or let them walk?

  173. 173 GermanEagle said at 5:42 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    If the Eagles re-sign Kendricks to more than 5 Mio / year I will throw up in my mouth.

  174. 174 D3FB said at 7:43 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Couple things of note, I didn’t pull those numbers out of nowhere. They are essentially what those players will likely be worth, given that I stated seeing another major step forward. ILB and 34 DE’s get paid more than safeties. I like Byrd, think he’s a decent player, but I personally can’t condone bringing in an unknown quantity in terms of system fit, who already runs a 4.7 for crazy money. I have much less problem paying inside players because you know how they fit in the locker room, you know how they handle their business, and you know how they fit in your scheme.

  175. 175 GENETiC-FREAK said at 7:54 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Thing is what has Kendricks n Cox done to warrant a pay like that? So Eagles sign them not coz of play but coz they are locally drafted n grown n play in the system? We draft a unknown its the same as getting someone from FA you dont know how they will fit the scheme or locker.. You can only go off tape n interviews n asking coaches or players what they are like.. That goes for FA n Draft prospects.. Look how much the top safeties are getting paid right now.. If Byrd who is a proven top S is asking for 1mill extra is that too much??

  176. 176 D3FB said at 8:19 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Kendricks plays like he did down the stretch and cleans up the tackling, he’s a top level ILB. Cox provides both the ability to stuff the run and rush the passer. As long as he continues to progress he’s right there with the best of the young 34 DEs, behind Watt but with Richardson, Liuget and Wilkerson.
    Also Lane Johnson was the fourth overall pick last year and will make less than half of what Byrd is projected to get. Big difference. Plus top draft picks get their backgrounds checked to the point that it makes the CIA blush.

  177. 177 ICDogg said at 5:01 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    DJax proud to be a Crip

  178. 178 GENETiC-FREAK said at 5:09 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    That aint the crip sign??

  179. 179 GermanEagle said at 5:41 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Omg! Cut him…

  180. 180 Tom W said at 6:43 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    eagles aren’t cheap. thats just silly. but asking them to make a reasonable offer to both guys maybe a tad more isn’t unreasonable or asking for much. thats all we are asking. dont’ over pay like aholes … average of top 5 salaries for byrd, average of top 12 salaries for ward.
    Red position goes green. poor position turns into a strength. allows you to go into draft and draft BUA not for need. makes you better not only at one safety position, but other three secondary positions bc davis can press more and other safety doesn’t have to watch his back. also helps your passrush and coverage on nickel and dime w tes and slots wrs.

  181. 181 GEAGLE said at 7:23 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Dolphins signed Delmas so Eugen Parker fabricated the Byrd to Dolphins rumor cause he isn’t finding the market for Byrd he expected

  182. 182 Tom W said at 8:44 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Saw that and laughed. Kid also have been dolphins gm floating that to get Delmas to sign before fa deadline. But agent much more likely correct.

    Beyond, after coming off a good year was shocked how little Delmas signed for. Understand he had injuries in 11 and 12 but 3.5 was a gift. Nice work by dolphins. Kid is talented but one dimensional.

    Could hurt a guy like Stevie browns market and also takes another team away. Colts are gonna lose vontae … Grigsby gonna have to address corner or keep bethea. Hear they really like Arthur jones too. Hopefully they can’t take out the stud safeties

  183. 183 GEAGLE said at 7:26 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Love the philly media talking about lamarr Houston as if he don’t cost ATleast 20mil in Guarentees and as if one of the best young players in football will sign on to sit on anyone’s bench, as if we would bench Cox or Ced.,..
    The same media members who tell us to look out for us signing Houston, which is adding a 20mil dollar rotation player to a unit that is one of our strengths, is the same media members who say we have to go shopping for safeties at Kmart lol

  184. 184 GENETiC-FREAK said at 7:34 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    I hear ya bro lol

  185. 185 GEAGLE said at 7:39 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    Dolphins signed Delmas to a 1yr 3.5mil deal which most likely means that Byrds agent leaked that rumor that the Phins were hot for his client because he isn’t happy with the deals he is being offered…

    Broncos look to sign Jared Allen!DRC wants that Sheilds money, Champ is gone,Decker is gone, and they need another RB ..this leads me to believe they can’t realistically sign Ward.
    Browns are signing Whitner
    Skins are signing Mike Mitchell and Talib

    Colts are going to spend Big on Vonte and end up keeping bathea
    Jets have serious issue at CB they have to spend on

    whoever wrote that Byrd would go to the Bucs should be immediately Fired. They have mark Barron!Goldson,Revis, and the big rookie CB. NO SHOT they get Byrd, especially since they are looking to spend BIG on pass rusher, probably MJ

  186. 186 GEAGLE said at 7:42 PM on March 10th, 2014:

    BEars undervalue the safety position and they have CB and pass rush to adress, so they will go with a cheap safety
    Atlanta is going to be the dumb team that takes cHamp Baily
    GB and The bengals won’t spend much! they will go with the Nate/major wright types..

    And Howie SPLASH Roseman is going to shock the WORLD!!!