Contract Extension Talk

Posted: June 4th, 2014 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 169 Comments »

Niners QB Colin Kaepernick got a big extension. His deal is reportedly worth as much as $126M, with $60M guaranteed. The Eagles have to be watching this closely since Nick Foles is eligible for an extension after this season.

Foles is a potentially tricky situation for the Eagles. Jeff Lurie has given out mega-deals to 2 QBs over the years…Donovan McNabb and Michael Vick. Both were Top 5 picks and elite physical talents. It was easy to see they were worth big money. Foles posted great results in 2013, but doesn’t pass the eye test nearly like the other guys. That’s part of the reason some people are still skeptical of Foles. He just isn’t special physically.

2014 is a critical season for Foles to show who/what he really is. If he posts great numbers, it won’t matter as much how he looks. Since the Eagles run Chip Kelly’s offense, Foles only has to show that he can be a top QB in this system. His lack of a great arm and top mobility didn’t hurt Foles in 2013. If they don’t in 2014, then the focus is strictly on how he plays within the system.

Some people will be critical of the Niners for giving mega-bucks to Kap. I think they made a smart move. Kap isn’t a polished passer, but he’s shown excellent potential in that area. SF doesn’t throw the ball all that much. Kap has 7 more starts than Foles, but has only thrown 57 more passes in his career. The Niners run, run and then run some more. They truly play old school football.

Kap needs to get better as a passer, but he does have the physical skills to be very good. He’s also a gifted athlete. Kap can make plays with his legs, which can help him as a passer. Kap is an overachiever type who has the work ethic to get better in those areas where he needs work.

Foles remains a huge question mark. You can believe in him. You can doubt him. The bottom line is that no one will know for sure what to make of Foles until after this season, and even that’s not a sure thing.

We’ll talk more about his contract situation as the 2014 season goes along.

* * * * *

The Eagles did give an extension to backup OL Allen Barbre.

Good move.

The Eagles need depth on the O-line. Barbre played well when called upon last year. Why not reward him for that? He will turn 30 in a few weeks, but Barbre hasn’t played a ton so there should be some tread left on the tire, so to speak.

Barbre will be the top backup at OG and OT.

* * * * *

I haven’t mentioned the LeSean McCoy-Adrian Peterson debate yet. The star RBs have gone back and forth as to who is better.

I love Shady to death, but I would take Peterson any day of the week. Shady has played behind a good OL and in good offensive systems. Peterson has produced big numbers playing with less than a stellar cast around him.

The bottom line is that both Peterson and McCoy are great RBs.

Zach Berman broke down some numbers in comparing the two of them.


169 Comments on “Contract Extension Talk”

  1. 1 mark2741 said at 9:00 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Last year I recall a reporter claiming he told Shady that he would be the top RB in the league this year due to Chip’s offense. Shady showed class by questioning how he could be better than Peterson. One year later and now he’s not so humble.

  2. 2 Jerry Pomroy said at 9:06 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Yes, but wasn’t he also being somewhat humble when asked originally this time around? I mean didn’t he give AP some props. Then AP took that up a notch to a different level & Shady is just responding to AP basically dissing him. I don’t know for sure. I haven’t followed it word for word.

  3. 3 Sean Stott said at 9:04 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    SF makes no sense at all. Alex Smith took them to the NFCCG, and looked a hell of a lot better than Kaepernick did while doing so. They overpaid, pure and simple. Kaepernick literally threw the NFCCG away last year. He is straight up not accurate.

    If he threw a better ball (that Nick Foles makes 9/10 times) to Crabtree, they’d have been in the Super Bowl again. It’s a tragedy he got that much money.

  4. 4 shah8 said at 9:28 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Alex Smith, against the NY Giants, during the entirety of the second half and overtime, was barely more than absolutely useless. Just one seventeen yard run and a few short passes.

    There is a reason Alex Smith got dumped. People talk about how that game against Indy wasn’t his fault, but it most certainly was. You cannot be a zero for the last twenty-eight minutes of the game, especially when your defense collapses. Remember he got great field position on Luck’s last INT, and didn’t anything with it, no time burnt, and settled for that field goal.

  5. 5 Media Mike said at 5:56 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    And how did Kaep look vs. Indy this past season? 13-27, 150, 0 TD / I INT, 49 rating.

    The style of football played by Kaepernick is a dead end and if he doesn’t learn how to improve as a passer the Niners will continue to get worse.

  6. 6 kevinlied said at 8:28 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Could you define “style” a little more precisely? If you’re saying that QBs who pose a running threat that they act upon a few times a game is a dead end, I don’t think the numbers support that conclusion. Last season’s top three QBs in rushing attempts — Cam (111), Wilson (96), and Kaep (95) — all led playoff teams with more than 10 wins. Wilson’s Seahawks won the Super Bowl. Kaep’s Niners went there the year before.

    Plus, Kaep averaged six rushes a game. That’s about two more than Foles, Rodgers, and Luck. Now, Kaep may not be as polished a passer as those three are (though he certainly has more “arm talent” than Foles), and perhaps that’s your point. But the idea that Kaep is a tuck-and-runner who can’t and doesn’t pass is a fallacy. Maybe it’s not the idea that you’re espousing. But others do.

  7. 7 Sean Stott said at 11:49 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    But he doesn’t have more “arm talent” than Foles. If anything, his velocity is mitigated by his inaccuracy and very slow and awkward delivery.

  8. 8 kevinlied said at 11:55 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Well, we’ll have to disagree on that, but it was a parenthetical aside anyway. Main question stands: what is Kaep’s style, and why is it “dead end”?

  9. 9 fran35 said at 12:52 PM on June 6th, 2014:

    OK, I’ll bite.
    I espouse this idea.
    Colin Kapernick exceeded 300yd passing 2 times last year. His completion % was below 60%, and actually his career % is under 60%.
    His postseason stats last year are even more dismal: 54% completion percentage, 3 tds, 3 INT and averaged 190 yds passing per playoff game.
    Not sure what metrics you base “arm talent” off of, but it must not have anything to do with accuracy or timing. But yeah, him and Jeff George could probably do well at the County Fair knocking down milk jugs.

  10. 10 kevinlied said at 2:21 PM on June 6th, 2014:

    So you’re saying that Kaep’s style is passing inaccurately? Sure, passing inaccurately is a “dead end.” I don’t think that’s what the original commenter was saying. I’m guessing his point is that running-threat QBs are a dead end. That, to me, is crazy talk. Why would it be a dead end to add a dimension to the position? If Payton Manning was capable of tucking the ball and taking off for thirty yards, he wouldn’t be better? Now, of course you can’t be a successful QB without passing accurately and, if the point is that Kaep has to improve that facet of his game, I’ll buy it. But he’s not Terrelle Pryor. He has shown the ability to be a dynamic passer, even if he hasn’t done it consistently. And I think you’re short-selling him with your selective use of statistics. Yes, his career completion percentage is under 60% (though barely, 59.8%), but there’s nothing wrong with his YPA, his TD-INT ratio, his passer rating, etc.

  11. 11 Joseph Dubyk said at 8:38 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    absolutely mike

  12. 12 anon said at 10:15 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    It’s about ceilings. Bc of athleticism and work ethic people think kap can be that guy. Smith is limited, though he played a lot better in kc I think Jamaal Charles was responsible for like half of the offense on that team. If none of a teams recievers are taken in fantasy you gotta wonder about the quality of the qb.

    Alex Smith is looking for a kap-like number so it’s probably a wash anyway .

  13. 13 Sean said at 12:13 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I wouldn’t go that far, but it may not be the best investment for a team with either the least or second-least pass attempts in each of Harbaugh’s three years.

  14. 14 kevinlied said at 8:29 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I must have been asleep a long time. Since when has the idea that Alex Smith is an upper-echelon quarterback had any traction?

  15. 15 JakFTW said at 9:05 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    I saw a comment over on PFT (I know, I know…) suggesting that teams have never won the Super Bowl when the QB’s cap number has been more than 12% of the cap – Can anyone confirm this? I’d be very curious what the ideal QB cap number is for playoff / SB success.

  16. 16 TommyLawlor said at 9:23 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    I find that hard to believe with Eli in 2011 and Brees in 2009. And Peyton in 2006.

  17. 17 JakFTW said at 9:34 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Yeh I thought it sounded a bit off… still it’d be nice to see some numbers, can anyone tell me where to look?

    Obviously interested because it looks like we’ll be paying our QB soon.

  18. 18 shah8 said at 9:37 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    think someone at footballsfuture debunked that one, maybe. Or it was a debunking of the fact that it was especially bad cap hit. Traditionally, big time QBs get around 15%.

  19. 19 D3FB said at 10:48 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Salary Cap: $102 million.
    Peyton pay: $9 million roster
    bonus, $1 million base salary, assuming the $34.5 million signing bonus
    prorated equally, $4.9ish million
    10/102=9.8% or included bonus 14.9/102= 14.9%

    Cap:$123 million
    Brees: $14 million cap hit
    Percentage:14/123= 11.4%

    Cap: $120 million
    Eli: $14.1 million
    Percentage: 14.1/120= 11.75%

  20. 20 JakFTW said at 11:47 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Thanks for doing the numbers – interesting stuff. I wonder if any of those teams ended up in ‘cap hell’ as a result of their large QB contracts (didn’t Brees’ get re-worked?).

    I’m just wondering if the big contract Foles might have coming at the end of the coming season will compromise Chip & Howie’s roster building.

  21. 21 D3FB said at 12:16 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I don’t expect any kind of Foles extension to really hurt the team. The way I look at it is: half the teams in the league are paying their QB’s between 17-21 million dollar annually anyways, so our competitive advantage goes away but we at least are in a similar situation as the other premier teams from a cap standpoint. The remaining teams are probably playing young QB’s or veteran stopgaps. Most of those teams probably aren’t terribly competitive. A small handful may have a year or two between when the QB is no longer super green and his second contract, but they also need to have built a roster around him strong enough to contend, otherwise they can have that extra cap room but it won’t help them much.

    The long term impact of paying a QB big money is that you probably have to stay away from most of the big name free agents and get a little more creative with some of the further down the chart free agents. The biggest and best way for a team to avoid cap hell, is to draft well. Rookie pay scale makes young cheap talent incredibly valuable.

  22. 22 theycallmerob said at 12:44 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Not only your excellent points above, but consider the cap increase over just the next two years (not projecting further growth); the 18mil contract of today counts against less of the overall % in the future. This and next offseason may be the best times to sign long-term deals.

    It is fantastic to even have this conversation, since these $18-20M /yr contracts assume Foles has a fantastic year in 2014 as well. I can live with such a predicament, considering all the work Howie has done $-wise to be prepared for this day.
    As you say above, being in the upper crust of teams due to a franchise quarterback’s contract is no great burden. Especially if Foles plays his way into Top-10 status this year.

  23. 23 ACViking said at 1:54 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    In hindsight, when Banner gave McNabb what was one if the richest contracts in the NFL for its time, I don’t remember any discussion in the media about the deal crimping the Eagles’ cap flexibility.

    Banner, whatever his shortcomings, established an impressive financial culture for this team. And it continues today.

  24. 24 FairOaks said at 11:23 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    I’m pretty sure I remember Banner saying (as quoted in newspaper articles) that McNabb’s deal was never projected to exceed 10% of the team’s payroll in any year. So that aspect was definitely on his mind.

  25. 25 Media Mike said at 5:57 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Brees was “only” $12 mil /year or so in 2009.

  26. 26 shah8 said at 9:15 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    I think a major reason Kap got the money is because of deep playoff runs where he was a significant contributer to the outcome. Got to win games to get the cash money, not quite post stats.

  27. 27 A_T_G said at 9:30 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    I’m not sure history supports that assertion. Plenty of QBs got big deals without proving themselves in the playoffs. Ryan, Stafford, Cutler, Bradford recently.

  28. 28 shah8 said at 9:32 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    pedigreed players. Kap is a second round mutt.

  29. 29 shah8 said at 9:35 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Stafford is an interesting case in the sense that he’s old enough that he should be better at being a QB than he is, given his tools. Lots of high numbers, but…low in magic or refinement.

  30. 30 A_T_G said at 9:37 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Romo fits that description, and price point, as well.

  31. 31 shah8 said at 9:40 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Romo more than fits the eye test, and I’d say that Cutler does as well.

    Bradford hasn’t had a new deal, has he? He still eating off of the last big rookie deal?

    Ryan gets the big time media friendly boost on the pretty good QB label, and he’s certainly good enough to win if he has a good team. That said, Ryan isn’t very capable at all of rescuing your butt, which is why he gets kicked so hard in the playoffs. And why I consider him the least talented QB capable of winning.

  32. 32 A_T_G said at 9:48 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Come on now. You claim that what matters in a QB is post season success and rescuing a team and, in the past, late-game heroics and yet defend Romo?

  33. 33 shah8 said at 9:56 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    I did see Romo, on a bad back, save Dallas’ season for one more game against the Deadskins just a few months ago. Romo has had a very strong history of being a game breaker, and any decent analysis bears that out. He just hasn’t had very many seasons with the stars all aligned, and has had bad luck the two times he was playing on a truly good team. I definitely do not penalize QBs for being on bad teams. I watch how they play, and what they can do.

  34. 34 A_T_G said at 10:38 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    So, let me see if I can sum this up and amend your original assertion:

    Got to win games ( or have pedigree) to get the cash money (or pass the eye test, have different tape, and win an ultimately meaningless game with an ailing back against a team that would go on to a 3-13 record, if you are not on a great team every year and fall victim to bad luck when you are), not quite post stats (except for AY/A, that one counts).

    Is that where we are?

  35. 35 Rambler said at 1:02 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    God bless you for even attempting to summarize that. I would never take on such endeavors, even with a couple of Adderalls in my system.

  36. 36 Andy124 said at 8:38 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Not quite. AY/A doesn’t always count. It means nothing for Mr. Foles.

  37. 37 anon said at 10:09 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Stafford = Romo?

  38. 38 shah8 said at 10:12 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    different tape

  39. 39 shah8 said at 10:17 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Also, check the only stat that really matters, to the extent that it can matter, AY/A. Stafford has had only one good year, really. It was a great one, but…you know, he was beating up on a ton of bad teams/defenses, all season long that year.

  40. 40 Sean said at 11:25 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    It’s interesting you bring that up, because one Nick Foles led the NFL in AY/A by a full ~1.25 yards over the second best: Peyton Manning (10.54 vs. 9.30). Kaepernick, FWIW, ranked 8th (7.83). Top 10 here for reference:

  41. 41 Sean said at 11:26 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    That 10.54 mark also happens to stand as the best on record since 1976.

  42. 42 Jerry Pomroy said at 9:19 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    I have to say that I disagree Tommy. I’m not being a Homer either but Kaep has 7 more games started and you’re anointing him as being deserving but even if Foles shows much of the success he had last year, he’d still be a question mark? He’d then have 32(+) games started (assuming he doesn’t lose any to injury) and you’d have a larger sample size of Foles by then than SF has of Kaep now. Yeah Kaep may be a better athlete, but that doesn’t make him a better QB & from what I’ve seen of both so far, I personally think Foles is the better Quarterback.

  43. 43 TommyLawlor said at 9:33 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    I said it is possible that we still may not know what to make of Foles after this year. I stand by that statement. We need to see how he plays and the circumstances.We very well could get an answer, but I don’t think we can say with certainty that we’ll know about Foles next January.

    You can’t judge all players the exact same way. Kap has proven that he is special physically. He has proven that he can be a dynamic passer at times. He has proven that he can win big games in the regular season and in the playoffs.

    Foles has proven that he can play well as a 10-game starter, but we need to see him play for a whole season. Foles has never been “The Guy” from Day 1 until the end of the season. He must show he can thrive in that role.

  44. 44 Jerry Pomroy said at 10:07 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    I can agree that at the end of the season, depending on how it plays out, there could very well still be questions about Foles. One thing that I will say is that I do believe these are both guys that do benefit from the systems they are in. I do agree that Foles needs to prove that he can be the guy from start to finish. I guess my biggest issue is that I don’t think he and Foles are good comparables. They’re just very different types of players.

  45. 45 TommyLawlor said at 10:18 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    They’re only comparable because they are young, successful QBs playing on rookie deals. Kap got an extension.

    Will Foles?

  46. 46 Vick or Nick said at 9:41 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    I’ve said this from the begining:

    Nick Foles. Franchise Quarterback.

    People have questioned his lack of physical tools and mobility. He doesn’t have a lazor but can make every throw that’s needed. He can throw with timing and anticipation, along with accuracy.

    Foles best comparison is Tom Brady. He doesn’t have nearly the resume of the future first ballot hall of famer. But physically Brady lasted to the 6th round because he too did not wow scouts with his arm, couldn’t run fast.

    But he’s smart. He gets the offense, knows how to read defenses, throws with timing and accuracy. Makes game winning decisions.

    My one knock on Nick Foles right now is that he sometimes holds the ball too long, takes a sack, waiting for someone to get open. I hope next year he understands the situations better (something Brady is exceptional at). If its 3rd down and the team is in Field goal range, don’t take a sack, throw it away. If its only 1st down and the rush is coming fast, throw it away.

    I hope Foles does a better job with throwing the ball away and giving the offense makeable downs.

  47. 47 anon said at 10:02 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Everyone likes Foles, for me it’s hard to annoint him. It’s only been one year. I even think Peyton and Brady comparisons are premature.

    Additionally he’s got to prove that he’s a leader and not just a player. Do we hear about him staying after with rookies, nurturing those guys, developing bonds, taking ownership of the team. That’s the stuff that Wilson and luck do, Peyton and Brady do that really get you paid and make the team better. It’s especially important since coop is the only returning receiver. So if Foles isn’t that guy, he’ll never be THAT guy. My two cents.

    Great season last year though.

  48. 48 Vick or Nick said at 10:36 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    If you listen to his interviews it certainly sounds like he’s doing/saying the right things expected of a franchise quarterback. The one thing I don’t question with Foles is his mental make up. I think he’s got the right mind set and attitude.

    He has to continue to improve in every area. But if he just makes a few better decisions per game, Eagles will be a lot better.

  49. 49 ICDogg said at 12:09 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Yeah, he was on with Jaws earlier this evening.

  50. 50 A_T_G said at 10:58 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Everything he, his teammates and the coaches have said and done point to him being a leader, and a good one. In a recent interview he was talking specifically about that and how he spends time with the guys off the field and in the locker room to get to know them so he can be more effective. He gave an example of knowing that DJax needed a little time to cool off when he is upset before he is able to have a productive conversation. Comments like that make me think he really gets it, and make me confident.

  51. 51 anon said at 11:08 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    I hear you, but that’s not the same. And I give him benefit of the doubt bc he wasn’t the starter last year and it’s only otas so well see. Issue is it’s hard to make any judgements without them being premature. Agree that Foles is a smart guy but is he a leader, might be something he’s gotta grow into.

  52. 52 A_T_G said at 11:12 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    What makes you doubt? Just a lack of stories specifically about him being a leader?

  53. 53 anon said at 11:39 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Yeah it just doesn’t seem like he exhudes it like the other guys I mentioned, like he takes responsibility for everything on the offensive side of the ball. No doubt he’s got the brains, probably the work ethic, but we can revisit after training camp and after the season ends in Feb.

  54. 54 ICDogg said at 12:06 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    When Foles first arrived on the scene, he kind of had a kiddie haircut and an aw-shucks personality. But that’s not what I’m seeing now. He’s really grown into his role.

  55. 55 anon said at 2:46 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Case in point: RGIII took 9 receivers to AZ to work with them this offseason.

  56. 56 laeagle said at 3:25 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    McNabb used to do that all the time, and no one is jumping over anyone else to talk about his leadership. As for the Brady/Manning comparisons, vis-a-vis leadership, they didn’t start out that way. I’d feel weird about a younger QB taking that on (and I feel weird about Bob3 doing it). It’s presumptuous in my opinion. You have to be in the league for longer, with more postseason success, before I feel you’ve earned that right.

    Leadership-wise, Foles is right on track. I don’t see anything to worry about. That role has to be earned.

  57. 57 anon said at 3:47 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Nah, RW did it last year, Luck does it. QB is by definition the leader — that’s why they get paid that way.

    Of course Foles doesn’t have to do it, but what does that say if his peers are doing it?

  58. 58 D3FB said at 4:24 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Sanchez had jets west for several years. I see no correlation between doing it and an improvement on the field.

  59. 59 anon said at 4:35 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Hah, Nick shouldn’t practice at all. I heard ponder practices every day. I see no correlation between doing it and an improvement on the field.

  60. 60 D3FB said at 1:18 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    I just think it’s unfair for you to criticize foles for not doing one. Kelly has a very different way of doing things and for all any of us know Kelly told him not to do one. Plus when would he have done it? Late March Early April? Maclins knee was probably cleared but not full go, djax, and avant were gone, is there much value to building cohesion amongst wr’s 4 and 5 and guys that won’t be here come September?

  61. 61 mksp said at 9:22 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    This “taking your WRs to AZ to run routes and work on chemistry” seems like the most overrated thing in football.

    Foles was asked specifically about this in one of his press conferences, and it doesn’t sound like he’s in a hurry to do it – per his words, his family is important to him, and the offseason is when he can spend time with family. Between OTA, training camp, and the season, he has plenty of opportunities to get to know his WRs and teammates and be a leader.

    We know he’s not partying every opportunity he gets once the season kicks in, maybe thats when he’s “building chemistry”.

    And as noted, McNabb did this all the time, and I’m not sure it made a difference in his performance or leadership.

  62. 62 anon said at 12:17 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    I don’t think it’s overrated when you haven’t been w/ most of your recieving corps. And frankly, there’s not many uber successful people that get to spend a whole lot of time with their family. Even in the offseason guys like Brady and Manning are spending all day in the gym. How are you going to be like them if you aren’t going to work like them?

  63. 63 shah8 said at 10:03 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Well, how about a quick thing. Matt Ryan, who is no fast bunny, ran something like a 4.82 at his combine. Faster than Blake Bortles, you see. Not that he has anything like Bortles’ vision and rushing ability. Nick Foles ran a 5.05 best time. I promise you, that was probably a major factor why he was a third round pick rather than a second. It’s not that coaches want speed demons at QB, but people that slow usually cannot handle themselves well in a messy pocket. Andy Dalton is also as fast as Ryan, and he’s terrible at it as well. Now, pocket movement isn’t about speed, but it is about agility, and short bursts so as to give max time to reset feet. Tom Brady might have had that 5.22 40 time, but there is no way he was that slow when he replaced Drew Bledsoe. A young Tom Brady was certainly not as led footed as Nick Foles is, and he wouldn’t have been caught by Jared Allen like Nick Foles that particular sack.

  64. 64 anon said at 10:06 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Brady works really hard on condition ing / speed, it’ll be interesting to see of Foles is faster this year. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

  65. 65 GEAGLE said at 10:45 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Id’assume he is a better athlete this year. Know he planned on doing yoga this offseason…he saw how teams dare him to take the ten yards and I’d assume he tries to improve speed to try and better take advAntage of those opportunities

  66. 66 Vick or Nick said at 10:32 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Foles is a lot better athlete than people give him credit for.

    He’s still young. Foles has shown the pocket mobility that Brady has. He has ability to elude pressure and throw downfield.

    Where he needs to improve is making better decisions and playing situational football. Brady does this really well. He rarely loses a game for his team.

    Foles most likely was not scouted heavily because he played at Arizona (not a QB factory) with marginal talent and overall a bad team. No press there. That along with the “depth” at QB that year along with almost all attention going to RGIII and Luck, and Foles kinda slipped under the radar. Add in the fact he played in a spread offense and the rep that goes with that for scouts and its easy to see why Foles slipped.

    End of the day, Football is a team game. Foles can play at Brady level but it won’t matter if lineman miss blocks, receivers drop the ball. Luckily for him he has a good O-line and solid receivers (barring injury).

    The biggest concern should be the level of competition and the defenses that the Eagles face in 2014 will be much better than 2013. Eagles should be improved as well but there are no guarantees.

  67. 67 GEAGLE said at 10:25 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    He is absolutely a better attlete than people say. The eye opener for me is redskins at eagles this past year, the rushing TD FOles scored. He was running towards the right, saw the skins safety Merriweather coming up to make the stop, FOles cut it inside and Merriweather had no answer…

    Not only is he a better athlete than people give him credit for, but more important, he isn’t afraid to run with the ball, he is willing to keep it and take the 10 yards the defense is daring him to take… This is so important. We see how important it is when Barkley is behind center and he is scared to death to run with the ball…
    Love how fans and media kill FOles for his “lack of athleticism”…. But in the top 100 players video of FOles, you see opponents around the league give him props for his athleticism

  68. 68 Neil said at 10:47 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    If there’s one thing you can’t knock Foles on, it’s quickness in the pocket. He can’t cut to make a defender miss or outrun anyone, but his pocket movements are sudden and decisive, and he has excellent instincts for knowing where to move to. Reminiscent of but not on the same level as Brees.

  69. 69 Jerry Pomroy said at 11:09 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    Plus he’s got a pretty good pump fake that helps to evade pressure from an oncoming defender. He will at times incorporate the pump fake with a side step in the pocket & that is one of his best attained skills.

  70. 70 GEAGLE said at 10:19 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Like that two handed pump fake he copied from Brady..

    Can’t wait til we go to Roxborough for training camp because you know our young QB makes the most out of every opportunity he gets to see Brady up close

  71. 71 laeagle said at 3:28 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    So, let’s use 40 times to compare them, but only when it supports your argument? Why is Brady’s 40 time not relevant, but Ryan’s is? Oh, because “there is no way he was that slow when he replaced Drew Bledsoe”. Strong, strong case you’re making there.

    Foles has pocket agility. There’s no way you can watch tape on him and think he doesn’t. He has a great deal of functional mobility, and that’s something we all noticed in his rookie season. Move around, keep your eyes downfield. I’m sorry, but you simply can’t say that’s a weakness of Foles.

  72. 72 GEAGLE said at 10:17 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    The issue with holding onto the ball too long is going to improve. It can’t possibly not improve. The more experience he gets, the more his defensive recognition will naturally improve.. .as he naturally recognizes what the defense is throwing at him faster, the issue with holding onto the ball too long will improve,..
    I don’t at all worry about this…because this isn’t even the type of problem that you really have to work on, and drill to improve…this is a problem that will correct itself naturally as he gains experience

  73. 73 RIP Worms said at 3:21 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    “He doesn’t have a lazor…”

    Were you being clever there? You know, because he DID have a Lazor in 2013. He just won’t have one going forward.

  74. 74 Vick or Nick said at 3:58 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    pun intended.

  75. 75 RIP Worms said at 10:33 AM on June 6th, 2014:

    Well, then. Well played, sir.

  76. 76 Mark Sitko said at 11:36 PM on June 4th, 2014:

    REALLY TOMMY? – you would STILL take Peterson over Shady? – I agree with you, in the end he may go down as the better back, but he is CLEARLY on the decline – Shady may not go up much more but he is still rising. To me it would be SILLY to take Peterson – especially with his injury history.

  77. 77 anon said at 4:09 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Details of the Kap contract are out and boy would Howie love it.

    He gets $13m signing bonus + 700k in base salary this year.
    From 2015 on his salary is only guaranteed only for injury until 4/1 of each year.
    $2m/yr tied to roster and workout bonuses
    Kap has to purchase a $20m insurance policy w/ SF as beneficiary if he suffers a career ending injury
    $12m de-escalates if 49ers / Kap doesn’t hit certain milestones (SB, Kap making 1st team all pro, etc.)

  78. 78 GEAGLE said at 10:29 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Yeah everyone been killing the contract but I hear that it’s very team friendly..
    Don’t quote me on this, but I thought I heard that they can easily get out of this contract in year 4 or something but I didn’t see you include it…. Am I mistaken?

  79. 79 Media Mike said at 6:04 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    This is absolutely a good deal for the Niners. I cannot stand Kaep and believe his style of play to be a complete and total dead, but they’re committed to him as their starter. Unquestioned starting QBs who have some level of success get paid what Kaep got paid. His deal being in the same range as Cutler, Romo, and Stafford is totally fine. That’s the market.

    To be quite honest I totally agree with folks on here that have said you have to look at this deal vs. a $133 million cap in 2014, a $140 million cap in 2015, and a $150 million cap in 2016.

    The interesting deals are going to be Wilson and Luck who are both head and shoulders above Kaep as passers.

  80. 80 Ark87 said at 7:53 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I’ll take Shady, maybe not every week (I’d love to rent out AP for the Seahawks game), but definitely over the course of a season. The gap in pure running ability simply isn’t big enough to compensate for the difference in age, versatility, and durability.

  81. 81 LeQuan Glover said at 8:26 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Only in Philadelphia would we argue about having a 6’6 franchise QB who led an offense with the most 40+ yard plays in the NFL. This is like wondering if a young Jason Kidd or Steve Nash is “worth it”. Don’t kid yourself, if the Eagles could MAX Foles today, they would. There’s only a handful of precision passers in the NFL. Foles is one of them. That doesn’t pass the eye-test? BS. It passes mine. At worst, he’s a borderline elite QB. You don’t want “borderline elite”? You’re going to be waiting a long time for the MJ of QB’s(that’s essentially what you’re looking for).

  82. 82 Andy124 said at 8:26 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I’d take Shady for 2 very important reasons:
    1) Age
    2) Homerism.

  83. 83 GEAGLE said at 10:39 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    3) I like the wheel route portion of our offense
    4) cool nickname and I enjoy when he scores a TD and I get to sing: “shaaaaaaaaaaaady aftermath” and do his TD dance

  84. 84 Scott J said at 8:30 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    The Niners and the rest of the NFL keeps overpaying these QB’s at the detriment to the rest of the team.

  85. 85 GEAGLE said at 9:59 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Everyone praised that front office for building a juggernaut of a roster..but they were enjoying the rare advantage of paying peanuts for decent QB play…. Now that they have all this money tied into the QB, going to be interesting to see what type a job Baalke does with that roster from here on out

  86. 86 Nicodemus_09 said at 8:32 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Adrian Peterson is a monster. Just like Barry Sanders, the guy over the years has had to put his entire offense on his back because of poor offensive lines & an endlless string of Christian Ponder-esque QB’s. Biased Eagles fan? ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION.
    But I’m commiting igglesblitz/Lawlor blasphemy. Gimme some Shady & his more well rounded, I.E. receiving skills & his make you miss in a phone booth moves all day long. I can’t blame LeSean for his good fortune of being drafted by a team that has more talent than just himself. Shady Rules.

  87. 87 Joseph Dubyk said at 8:37 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I’ll take the polished passer over the physical specimen ANY day of the week. I have lived through the Randall era, the McNabb era and of course the Vick era… They were all too much sizzle and not enough substance. I am more than ecstatic to finally have my 6 foot 5 pocket passer in Nick Foles. It isn’t even close, I would take Foles over Kapernick ALL DAY… 9 Games, NINE where Kap threw for 200 yards or less. There was even talk of benching Kap early in the season… Bad move by the 9ers. Especially if they lose some talent on the OL or D

  88. 88 Andy124 said at 8:48 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I don’t agree that it was a bad move for the 9ers, but I definitely agree with the rest.

  89. 89 eagleyankfan said at 8:56 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Kap is successful in their system(so far). All Foles needs to do is be successful in Chips system.

  90. 90 Joseph Dubyk said at 9:05 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    ANY QB can be successful in SF.. They have a top 3 O-line, a top 3 defense (arguably the 2nd best D) and plenty of offensive weapons. Alex Smith even brought them to the CG and Smith isn’t exactly elite either.

  91. 91 eagleyankfan said at 9:14 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I don’t agree with that at all. If that’s true, the brass of the 49s the dumbest in the nfl. If anybody can win in that system..why not just pay any scrub 1 mil instead of committing so much to Kap?

  92. 92 Andy124 said at 8:59 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    And did you upvote your own post? Ballsy. lol

  93. 93 Joseph Dubyk said at 9:03 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    LMAO!!!! I do every time! Im a self promoter!

  94. 94 Andy124 said at 9:31 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    You’re Joe_D from BGN, right?

  95. 95 GEAGLE said at 10:12 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I helped u out with a Rec lol

  96. 96 A Roy said at 10:50 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    And I lived through the Roman Gabriel era. Having a 6′ 5″ statue in the backfield has it’s inherent flaws, too. McNabb has to go down as one of the best we’ve had.

  97. 97 Joseph Dubyk said at 10:52 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    For now at least. But it’s not saying much. Who’s the best after that? Jaws? We have never had a HOF QB. McNabb wasn’t consistent enough to get us a ring

  98. 98 A Roy said at 10:55 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    From the last 50 years…hmmm. I might have Jaws ahead of Cunningham, or not. Perhaps Norm Snead.
    I do think McNabb was consistent enough. He just had zero receivers. Once they gave him ONE, we went to the SB.

  99. 99 botto said at 3:06 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    thats true, just one and we went. how annoying is that!

  100. 100 Joseph Dubyk said at 3:31 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    He lacked talent there many years but he also had Brian Westbrook a great O-line and great defenses. Look at all the games we lost in the CG, McNabb was putrid in all of them.

  101. 101 A Roy said at 3:53 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    Looked at the stats for McNabb in conference championship games:
    2001 18-30 171 0/1
    2002 26-40 243 0/1
    2003 10-22 100 (Detmer came in)
    2004 17-26 180 2/0
    2008 28/47 375 3/1
    Average for 4 he played entire game is 22-36 242. I wouldn’t call that putrid…especially given he was facing the better teams of the league. We just wanted/needed a liiiittle more from him and he was not up to it. Thus, near HOF and not there.

  102. 102 Joseph Dubyk said at 5:19 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    In 2008 was when I stopped being a fan of McNabb.. The CG was McNabb in a nut shell. Missed WIDE OPEN WRs so hard. Left so many points on the field and of course the obligatory choke INT…then alas, he came alive for 2 quarters, but that was the deal breaker. Like you said, we needed a littttttle more (IMO it was consistency) and he just never did it.

  103. 103 eagleyankfan said at 8:54 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    You love gifted athletes. You love to see those huge throws, those great runs etc etc. You will never like Foles because he’s not pleasing to your eyes or as gifted as an athlete. Kap deserves that contract or “it’s a smart move” because Kap is a gifted athlete.

    Foles however, is not a gifted athlete(not my opinion) or isn’t elite(as you pointed out, he wasn’t drafted as high as Vick or 5) so we have to wait and see. Than you go on to say “and even that’s not a sure thing.” Just wondering — those top 5 QB picks, who are extremely gifted athlete’s — how many SB’s have they won combined?
    Egads. So you’re saying Foles can have another great season but you’ll still be skeptical (because he’s not a gifted athlete). WHAT???
    All Foles did last year was run a brand new offense while being number 2 coming out of camp. He ran it without that special arm(that everybody wants) and without those ‘gifted attributes’ and he ran that offense to perfection. He didn’t do it OK, he didn’t do it “good” … he did it perfectly. He ran it without full support of his team(at the time, there were loyalties to Vick by players). Foles did a tremendous job last season — even beyond what “stats” say….
    Foles doesn’t have to throw 50td’s to be elite. He doesn’t have to throw 80 yard bombs or scramble for 90 yards td’s. All Foles has to do is run this offense and do it well. That’s it. If he does that — without question — he is your franchise QB — whether you think he’s “pleasing to your eyes” or not….

  104. 104 Andy124 said at 8:58 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Egads. So you’re saying Foles can have another great season but you’ll still be skeptical (because he’s not a gifted athlete). WHAT???

    That’s not what he said at all. He said there’s no gaurantee we’ll know what we have in Foles after this season. He could be just pretty good, or get injured, or fall in some gray area where Tommy’s left unsure.

    Or he could (and will) play excellent football and erase any remaining doubts.

  105. 105 eagleyankfan said at 9:05 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I understand what you’re saying. The whole underlying theme in that write up is Foles is not a gifted athlete so he’ll always be questioned. I don’t agree with that….

  106. 106 Andy124 said at 9:21 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    See, you said ‘always’. I’m not getting that.

    Obviously, Tom is less confident in FOles than you (or me). And it would seem that’s at least partially due to Tom putting a greater emphasis on arm strength and foot speed than we do. That’s fair to say.

    But from here, it looks like that’s frustrating you and leading you to put a more negative spin on this post than what’s really there. There’s room for a reasonable amount of disagreement here. Tommy’s certainly in the reasonable range. It’s only a matter of time before he renames the blog, FOlesyblitz.

  107. 107 eagleyankfan said at 9:34 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    True. This is not a supportive write up on Foles. He could have ended any sentence with “he’s off to a great start” or “his command of the offense deserves some merit”. Instead it’s backhanded comments like “lack of great arm” and “top mobility”. It does frustrate me. It is way too soon to anoint Foles as anything other than last year was great. It’s silly to keep pointing at arm strength and athleticism. Run Chips offense is all Foles needs to do.

  108. 108 GEAGLE said at 10:11 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Arm strength questions about the kid who led the league in big plays? Smh
    Questioning his arm strength at this point is joke! Barkleys arm strength needs to be questioned, not the QB who led the league in big plays. FOles doesn’t have the strongest arm, but I do not think we should be listing arm strength as if it’s an issue that isn’t adequate

    I can’t even believe I’m still reading this crap and having this convo after last year

  109. 109 Andy124 said at 10:44 AM on June 5th, 2014:


  110. 110 GEAGLE said at 11:00 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I just don’t get how someone who just had such a historically awesome year that people can’t even believe it, is having his arm strength questioned..,.. It’s not the strongest, but I don’t see how anyone can think it’s a detriment that will keep us from being successful…

    Chip is all about spreading a defense thing to create mismatches with plenty of space to exploit them.. Stretching a defense vertically isn’t the only way to create space… Stretching a defense horizontally is just as important…and one can argue Chip already started to alter this roster to suit FOles better. “Sorry Mrs. Jaccson, but Chip is for reeeeeeeeeeaaaaaal”
    DeGone was best suited to play with Vick who could flick his wrist and launch it 70 yards…got rid of that player and added Sproles….see how Desean is one of the most dangerous weapons in the league at stretching the field vertically? Sproles is the Desean of stretching the field Horrizontally…..think we will still see FOles at the top of the rankings in terms of big plays down field.. Ertz will be a terror down the seam. Cooper is basically still either catching a screen or looking to come down with a jump ball. The big plays down field will be there, but I think we are adding west coast elements to our passing attack..adding physical WRs like Jordan and huff who can catch a short pass an rack up the YAC…

    There are still plenty of questions FOles needs to prove to be the answer to…… But I think the arm strength and leg speed Is simplistic crap… I think we are a smarter community than that

  111. 111 Andy124 said at 11:07 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I’m really interested in how we balance our 11 vs. 12 personnel this year.

    When the coaching staff got more comfortable with Ertz, we started playing a lot more 12 and he took off. That took Avant off the field, no biggie.

    But now with Matthews, we’re basically having to choose between Ertz and Matthews, and that’s a different animal. Having an either/or situation with those two guys is a good problem to have to be sure, but it’s more complicated than last year when I could just yell ‘MOAR ERTZ’.

  112. 112 GEAGLE said at 11:45 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    , I could see times where we are in a 3 WR set, but Ertz is split our wide being considered one of the WRs…

    What’s really interesting to me is what’s going to happen if Brad Smith is a better weapon than we think?
    I’m convinced Casey was warrioring thru a bad ankle all year and that people will see a much different James Casey with a bigger role……we have a pretty stacked arsenal and we aren’t even considering Brad and Casey as weapons..

    11 vs 12 is interesting… But I think this coach will run things a little different. in most offense, the #5 WR is basically a ST player and offensive injury insurance who typically won’t be playing on offense when everyone is healthy… When it comes to 11’vs.12, it’s all going to be about the defense we are facing. I think there will be weeks when all our skill players are healthy and our #5 WR has a bigger role than our #3 WR…. I think Chip has every intention of using all his weapons. Every week Chip will study the defense we are facing, he will study how that defense reacts and how the line up against different personel groupings and Chip will
    Design a gameplan that creates mismatches attacking their weakness…
    We were usually attacking defenses our of 3 WR sets last year. Yet the Cardinals game showed us neverything about our coach and this new regime. our coach isn’t set in his way. Our coach is an equal oportunity ass kicker. He looked at their defense and saw that the best way to attack them was getting the TEs and backs matched up against their big LBs and smaller safeties…

    It’s not going to be hard to predict how Chip is going,to attack teams. We play bully ball, attack where a team is coincidence that he looks at the skill positions As a whole.. Many teams play the starters and the 5th and 6th WRs are just injury insurance…I think Chip doesn’t want to waste roster spots on just injury insurance. Think his goal is to build a deep, arsenal of weapons and we will see weeks where our main weapons will be put on the back burner, and we will see the offense feature some of our backups…thinking the touches will vary drastically from one week to the next.
    A guy like Jordan Mathews or Brad smith will look like one of our best players one week. And the next week we could see his role drastically shrink…
    ..11 vs. 12 is all about the opponent…. ,Ike I can tell you right now that week 2,’when we face the colts, we will feature a 2 TE and 2back offense…yet when we play the Niners we will feature 3 WRs

  113. 113 Andy124 said at 10:59 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    True, it’s not a supportive write up. But Tommy did say that (paraphrasing) the foot speed and arm strength didn’t hurt him in 2013, and if it doesn’t hurt him in 2014 then he can stop worrying about it.

    Obviously, many of us have already completely dismissed those as concerns. Other people just want to see more. I don’t begrudge them that… today. Tomorrow I might begrudge a little. It varies.

  114. 114 GEAGLE said at 9:56 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Love the spelling of FOles

  115. 115 Anders said at 10:31 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Foles needs to show improvement over last year to warrent a healthy deal. Just look at Dalton, good stats, many wins and yet the Bengals aint sure what they have.
    Foles could be the next Brady or he could fall in the Dalton category where paying him could potential leave us in no mans lands every year (good enough to get 10+ wins, but will never win us anything)

  116. 116 GEAGLE said at 10:36 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I would hand him a long term deal today if we could….

    Believe in him enough to extend him today. Rather than wait til he is more expensive after this year

  117. 117 A Roy said at 10:46 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Let’s qualify that statement. Foles needs to show improvement in certain areas. He has good accuracy, good awareness, good system understanding and good leadership. Needs improvement in not taking sacks and finding open man. Doubt he will get much quicker or faster. Doubt he will attain elite arm strength. Those last two are not impediments to excellence, in my opinion. Thus, bottom line is no regression in positives and improvement in sacks/leaving plays on the field.

  118. 118 Jack Waggoner said at 11:01 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    He doesn’t really need to improve all that much in my opinion but he has to stay healthy. The biggest problem with extending plays is the risk of taking a big hit. We know this only too well from having Vick.

  119. 119 botto said at 1:17 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    lets be real, if he has an excellent season next year will be about us getting mariotta

  120. 120 GEAGLE said at 9:39 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Yeah this article rubs me the wrong way….the primary skills,we need to see from our,QB, FOles displays in spades…basically FOles lacks the window dressing, which is couldn’t care less about… He brings the meat and potatoes of the position, so I don’t really care about all the window dressing

  121. 121 eagleyankfan said at 9:41 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    you said what I was trying to say but did it with 500 less words.

  122. 122 GEAGLE said at 9:53 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    This goes back to the Vick vs, FOles debate,,,,,
    Everyone argued that Vick was best suited to run this offense, which I thought was bullshit. Even in this offense, believe it or not, FOles had advantages over Vick….Vick is fast so he is better suited for this offense? Lol sounds like simplistic bullshit to me…. FOles was a few years removed from playing in a spread offense… FOles was more experienced than Vick with using WR option routes….
    KAp, Vick, Cam, RG3, Manziel.. They are faster so they must be better in this offense? Lol… Id argue that FOles mind, football intelligence is much more suited to run an offense where the QB is asked to choose which option depending on what the defense is doing…. I’d rather have,FOles brain and accuracy in this offense, than those QBs athleticism

    I’m baffled at how we are still having this convo about FOles possibly not being a good fit…. Smh

  123. 123 botto said at 1:16 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    the future is going to be all about Andrew luck and Nick Foles. it’s going to be like manning and brady.

  124. 124 A Roy said at 10:40 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    You said that and it precipitated his going on for the additional 500 words!

  125. 125 botto said at 1:00 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    its interesting when i watch the highlights that Foles isn’t as slow as i think and his arm is better then i think. i love Foles and i think its weird when i watch highlights that im still surprised by him.

  126. 126 GEAGLE said at 9:28 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I have no questions about FOles… FOles isn’t a gifted athlete?
    Athletically FOles is perfectly fine at the QB position…

  127. 127 eagleyankfan said at 9:37 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    you mean, you have at least 1 question about Foles :). Just teasing….

  128. 128 Tumtum said at 9:38 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    The one thing that I struggle with is this:

    Assume Foles lights it up again, and gets a big contract. He will be a very good QB for us,but is he leaving something to be desired? Could Kap dominate this system? What would McNabb do in his prime? Is he just a product of the system?

    I dunno and I hope to have to ask myself that for years and years.

  129. 129 GEAGLE said at 9:47 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    FOles lights it up, while not putting us in bad positions with boneheaded errors, personally I can’t ask for anything more..
    I need the eagles QB to be one of the most accurate QBs in the NFL…. CHECK!

    Need the Eagles QB to be a high character leader and workaholic…..CHECK

    Need the QB to be judicious with the ball, make the right decisions and not put this offense in bad situations… CHECK

    I’m not ready to say KAp is a better QB,than,FOles… He may be a more exciting highlight QB, who is more fun to play with in Madden…. The only thing I know for sure is kAp is better suited to run zone reads….

  130. 130 Anders said at 10:28 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    McNabb would destroy the NFL in his prime if he was in this system.

    People forget how great of a player McNabb was prior to all his injuries and Reid falling in love with the big play (Jackson was the worst to happen for Reid/McNabb because Reid just wanted 50 yards bombs on every play)

  131. 131 GEAGLE said at 10:32 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Before we got Mcnabb weapons, he was spectacular.. Dude was like a work horse who carried us his first two-three years…he came into the league like “steamin willie Beamen” lol

  132. 132 Andy124 said at 10:52 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    McNabb would destroy the NFL in his prime if he was in this system.

    I don’t think that’s a safe assumption at all. A very real possibility, but not a given. McNabb often struggled with accuracy. That’s going to be in impediment in any system. And there’s no gaurantee that he’d process the information as quickly as we saw Nick do this year in order to have the same, or better, success.

  133. 133 Tumtum said at 11:00 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    McNabb is a borderline HoFer as we sit today. Had he not fallen off at the end of his career and just continued on the same path I think he very well could of made it one day.

    I am pretty much with Anders on this one.

  134. 134 A Roy said at 11:04 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    McNabb + SB ring = HOF.
    By the way, I was at an O’s game vs Cleveland a couple weeks ago and saw someone with an Eagles tee and O’s hat. You?

  135. 135 GEAGLE said at 11:13 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Yeah I don’t think i put him in the HOF either…the one thing working in McNabbs favor is he was the best QB in the history of modern day Eagles… But putting him in the hall of fame IMO stinks of handing out trophies for 8th place. He was a quality player, his place in this franchise should be respected, but there is no way he should be in the HOF..,
    Say they all played during the same era.
    As eagles fans, would we veto trading McNabb for Marino?
    Veto trading him for Elway?
    How about Peyton?
    Favre ?
    Every single eagles fan would view trading Mcnabb for any of those QBs as a no BRAINER….
    Yet if one of those guys were our QB, we would consider not trading him for some of the other guys.

    If we had Troy Aikmen and they offered us McNabb straight up, we would laugh at them
    McNabb was a great QB, but there is just no way he should be in the hall of fame

  136. 136 Anders said at 11:34 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I wouldnt trade McNabb Aikmen. Also why are we comparing McNabb to some of the greatest and not just the rest like Jim Kelly or Simms?
    Thats like saying a WR isnt HOF because you would rather have Rice or TO.

  137. 137 GEAGLE said at 12:02 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    I wouldn’t put Jim Kelly in the HOF either…

    I have an easier time putting a guy like Barry Sanders in the HOF than I do with McNabb and Jim Kelly.
    Barry’s team SUCKED. Was a miracle if they made the playoffs, so I can’t be worried about him not winning a SB….,but as the QB, the ball is always in your hands. Guys like Kelly and McNabb had so many quality opportunities. great supporting casts, the ball always in their hands. But not once can you rise to the occasion and will us to get pver the hump?… Mcnabb in 2000, he wouldn’t have lost all those NFC championships. He used to be the type of competitor who would overcome everything and not accept losing…he used to carry us and played like a warrior when all we had was Chad Lewis…

    Mcnabb and Reid records against top opponents is pathetic. So many times we watched him Come up small when it mattered…greatness is thrown around too easily. McNabb was a really good player who put himself in a ton of positions to go snatch greatness..and he never did…. It’s not even so much about losing the big games, it’s about how we lost them… Most of the time Mcnabb amd the offense didn’t show up..
    I have a hard time putting these QBs in the HOF like Kelly and Donovan who had so many chances to step up, be GREAT and WILL your team over the hump..

    Feel like my cut off for the loser QBs trying to get in the HOF is Marino.. I wouldn’t trade away Marino for McNabb or Kelly.

    You would put Mcnabb in the HOF?

  138. 138 Anders said at 12:15 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    Again Barry Sanders is maybe the best RB of all time (he would be rushing record leader if he hadnt retired so early).

    I wouldnt put McNabb in the HOF right now, but he is right on the edge and had he played to the age of 35 for the Eagles, he would 100% be a HoF QB.

  139. 139 Tumtum said at 11:33 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Wasn’t me though I was supposed to go to a game in that series and couldn’t make it.

  140. 140 Andy124 said at 11:27 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Being almost an HoFer doesn’t really move me. Today, McNabb is the best Eagles quarterback during my fandom, which started while Cunningham was QB. But that doesn’t mean the issues that kept him from being a HoF quarterback in a very quarterback friendly offense with Reid wouldn’t also work against him in this quarterback friendly offense. And it also doesn’t mean that Nick won’t be the best Eagle QB ever before it’s all said and done.

  141. 141 Tumtum said at 11:34 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Can’t disagree with that.

  142. 142 Anders said at 11:37 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    The problem is how do you compare Foles playing with maybe the best offensive coach, a great OL and some great offensive skill players versus McNabb who had who for offensive skill players? Sure he had TO for one year and he was great that year (funny right?). He had Westbrook, but McNabb was already on the downside of his career in Westbrooks prime.

    McNabb have the everything over Foles and McNabb’s biggest problem was his footwork and that remained a problem because AR didnt work with him on it. Do you think Kelly would let McNabb not work on his footwork?

  143. 143 Andy124 said at 11:47 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    The difference in coaches and weapons absolutely make it difficult to compare. But it doesn’t seem to be stopping you. 🙂

    McNabb has everything over Foles the same way Vick had everything over Foles. How’d that work out? McNabb is obviously a MUCH better quarterback than Vick ever was, but it’s still the same bad reasoning.

    And yes, McNabb’s best year was 2004, when he had TO, and his 2004 was not as good (per game) as Nick’s 2013.

    It’s funny that you’re more confident in a qb you’ve never seen take a snap in this system than in a guy you just watched go 29/2.

    I think the case to be made in McNabb’s favor is obvious enough that it doesn’t even need to be made. I just don’t think it’s strong enough to merit any kind of certainty that he’d be better than what we already have.

  144. 144 Tumtum said at 12:08 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    It’s fun to thing about but obviously no concrete conclusions can be made.

    This all started with my thought that with NF at QB for years to come I may always wonder “What if?”. I love Nick and what he has done so far. He just posses a skill set that will always leave me wondering what could have been. In reality the grass is usually no greener on the other side of the fence.

  145. 145 Andy124 said at 12:26 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    Yeah, I’m generally not prone to wonder about the grass on the other side. Especially when the grass I’m standing on is midnight green.

  146. 146 A_T_G said at 12:28 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    But what if the stuff on the other side was Kelly Green?

  147. 147 Andy124 said at 12:29 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    I actually prefer the midnight green. By a lot.

  148. 148 bill said at 12:16 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    Loved McNabb, especially first 5 years, and agree he was a great QB, again, especially for the first 5. But – remember what Chip’s said he values – repetitive accuracy. Seems to be a strength of NF. Not so much of DM. Surround Donnie with some more talent, and that could have really been a juggernaut of an offense under Reid. But color me unconvinced that he was a lock to be awesome (or even better than Nick) in Chip’s offense.

  149. 149 Anders said at 12:20 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    McNabb have (or had) the record for most straight completions with 24.
    Also based on both Cowboys game, the Vikings and the Saints game, I wouldnt say Foles has great accuracy

  150. 150 bill said at 12:26 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    We can go back and forth and cherry pick games for both where both either excelled or stunk the join out. The story for me comes down to this – the Reid offense eschewed several core WC offense passing routes because McNabb couldn’t throw them effectively (including the corner fade), and those routes tended to be ones that emphasized accuracy over arm strength. Reid was great at putting McNabb in positions that emphasized his strengths and downplayed his weaknesses. And Donnie had enough strengths (no QB is truly perfect, or even really that close) that he was IMO, elite for the first 5 years of being a starter, and well above average for a few years later in his career. Watching Foles throw endzone fades and a few other routes has been almost as refreshing as the new run/pass ratio.

  151. 151 Anders said at 12:17 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    Different Era’s, in 2004, McNabb passing for 36 TD and 8 ints was first time a QB ever threw for 30+ TDs and less than 10 ints. Now Dalton throws for 33 TDs and nobody think that is good.

    In 2004, who did McNabb have again outside of TO?
    Also didnt Vick get the starting job and only lost it because he couldnt stay healthy? 😛

  152. 152 Andy124 said at 12:22 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    McNabb had 31 regular season tds in 2004 and Vick got the job based on 15 preseason pass attempts and playing even in shorts and shells.

  153. 153 A_T_G said at 12:22 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    That is one narrative of events. Another is that Vick only got the job because Foles wasn’t quite ready and Vick was only keeping the seat warm until the inevitable injury occurred.

    The truth is probably somewhere in between.

  154. 154 GEAGLE said at 11:04 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    Great points,,, FOles experience with spread principles,and experience with option routes were extremely important aspects of projecting FOles in this offense, and barely anyone gave them any thought

    It was always. Vick runs faster, Vick throws farther…lol

  155. 155 anon said at 11:59 AM on June 5th, 2014:

    I don’t think that’s true but it’s not worth arguing over. We all knew Foles was in spread in college, i thought that’s why he looked better in shorts and was more comfortable in the offense. Foles is way smarter than Vick, Vick obviously is the better athlete.

    Put Vick’s legs on Foles and we probably win a SB last year.

  156. 156 GEAGLE said at 12:25 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    How is that not true? This time last year, the majority opinion was Vick is better suited to run chips offense because he is fast and has a Cannon arm.., that’s all
    We heard…… Heck people still aren’t sold on FOles… If his name was Andrew Luck, he would be the face of the NFL right now after his play lasts year…

    All I know is I have been waiting for the FOles bullshit to stop for over a year now…
    1) it all started with the hiring of Chip. FOles was said to never be able to play for Chip.. To the point where Nick was going to be traded lol. Spent months arguing about FOles not being traded… Then come the owners meeting and we find out Bucs and KC had made offers and we weren’t going to trade FOles. Howie announced we wouldn’t trade FOles, and Andy even said that we weren’t open to trading him…you would think that ended the BS…. Of course not.. The talk was still that FOles could never beat Vick and run chips offense..

    2) we trade up for Barkley in the draft.. This has to put an end to the FOles can’t play for. Hip BS, right? Lol of course not

    3) undxperiemced Nick was able to hang with avicki n the camp competition and Nick was a young player wh
    Was still improving,… You would think that would end the FOles doubt, right? Lol NOPE

    4) We signed Matt Barkley…once again, not valuing leg speed in QB decisions..
    5) Vick gets hurt. FOles had a historic year. Lol the kid can’t wan in this city.. He had such a historic year, played so incredible that people can’t even believe it lol

    Young QBs developing isn’t an exact science. I wouldn’t bet against him, but a lot can happen that makes us not want to proceed committing to him for 6 years and a gazillions dollars….. But if we decide not to extend him for 999years, it WONT BE because he doesn’t run fast enough or have a strong enough arm….that’s just crazy talks as

  157. 157 Andy124 said at 12:28 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    Still get some holdouts claiming we should try to get Mariota next draft.

  158. 158 GEAGLE said at 12:49 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    Lol.. Let’s tank for Marriotta. Sacrafice the year!!

    We should play our backups all year. That way we can lose, while not putting our starters at risk. All our starters would remain healthy, have a year less of wear and tear, and our backups all get to gain experience.. That way we can make sure we lose enough to draft Marriotta…. Can’t wait the day I get to see an Eagles QB running all over the field like a chicken with his head cut off!!

    rather tank the year then trade FOles and alla our draft picks for Marriotta

  159. 159 Andy124 said at 12:58 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    Totally disagree. If you put Vick’s legs on Nick then we end up losing another starting QB to a pulled hamstring and now our backup is legless and on IR, so Barkley would have played even more.

  160. 160 botto said at 12:49 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    yeah mcbnabb is not hte most accurate and thats what its all about

  161. 161 bsuperfi said at 12:28 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    If we take Kelly at face value, one of the primary things he values in a qb is repetitive accuracy and acting like a point guard. McNabb was great but these certainly were not his strong suit. I’m sure any coach would love an athlete like McNabb or kap, but I’m not sure they’d be willing to sacrifice other crucial traits. It’s hard to find a Steve young.

    Complicating issues, it’s tough to say how much Kelly’s preferred qb is different in the nfl and college. Sure, we still run zone reads. But we also have precision west coast elements, and getting a bunch of hits on the qb is serious business. Given what Kelly’s said, I tend to think of qb running in his system as more of a a constraint option to keep defenses honest. It provides occasional explosive plays, but it’s not the centerpiece.

    All this makes me say Foles rules for the eagles.

  162. 162 botto said at 12:29 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    mcnabb, or kap, any running qb would end up hurt in a system that temps or expects them to run. no qb in the NFL will last 16 games or amny season getting hit running every game.
    we know this already

  163. 163 GEAGLE said at 12:44 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    I always viewed QBs running to compensate for not being good enough as passers…

    If you,have a QB who accurately delivers balls and makes the right decisions not turning the ball over.. If you have a top Oline, and you have the best running back in football…..

    Why in the world would anyone want to put our QB at
    Risk running the ball?

  164. 164 botto said at 12:47 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    exactly, mcnabb ran when tehre was room in front of him and he was good at it but he wasn’t primarily run. Foles is teh guy we want, standing tall moving in the pocket and throwing strikes all day. period. if you want a ruinning qb you need a back up, good thing we had Foles there.

  165. 165 Dominik said at 12:51 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    Rodgers isn’t the better QB than Peyton, but it sure as hell is a positive for him that he can run for the first down if he has to. He doesn’t do it that often (why should he? It has its risk). But he can.

    Now, Foles showed he can get Yards with his legs. But we can’t deny that Rodgers is the better athlete.

    I think Rodgers would be the IDEAL Chip QB (even better than Luck, who obviously would be a great QB in this system, in any system). And that has nothing to do with Nick not being our Franchise QB if he doesn’t fall of a cliff next year.

  166. 166 GEAGLE said at 1:12 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    All true, but you don’t see the packers dialing up designed runs for Rogers. But like Roges, Nick isn’t afraid to keep it and take the yards the defense give him and I believe that’s enough for Chip…and I believe THATS the reason Sanchez was brought in. I wouldn’t be surprised if Barkley developed enough as a passer to be our back up.. But unlike fearless FOles, Barkley is scared to death to run. And that’s a major problem for Chip. Barkley is probably faster than FOles, but he is scared to run with the ball. Which I think is the reason Sanchez was brought in….. Chip doesn’t need a super athlete who runs all over the field, but it’s imperative that his QB isn’t afraid to run, makes defenses pay and takes the yards they are daring him to take…

    Last time Chip saw Barkley not wearing a red jersey! he was scared to death to run with the ball. Funny because Barkley is fearless when it comes to throwing! but Chip can’t play him if he is afraid to run which IMO is exactly why mark Sanchez was brought in…Barkley refusing to run would makes our offense fall apart

  167. 167 Tumtum said at 12:50 PM on June 9th, 2014:

    Little harsh on the rookie, no?

  168. 168 76mustang said at 12:14 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    Watch any of the Foles 2013 highlight videos and tell me he doesn’t look like a franchise QB – Plus, I love that the guy is tall and sturdy – 6’5″+, 240 lbs., 10 5/8″ hands, 34 1/4″ arm length – but his best attribute is his brain – he needs to be John Stockton/Jason Kidd, not Allen Iverson in Chip’s offense.

  169. 169 GEAGLE said at 12:39 PM on June 5th, 2014:

    Thought he was a franchise QB his rookie year. This time last year I was predicting he would Wipe the floor with Vick in training camp last year lol. So basically I was a few months off on his development……

    If his name was Andrew Luck, the way he played would have him as the face of the NFL right now.. I feel bad for Nick that he doesn’t get the respect he deserves, but I know he will be a top QB and his career will take off so part of me enjoys him flying under the radar while it lasts…
    Now people may throw in my face the fact that he needs to do it for multiple seasons and I’m surely not oblivious to it.. Heck i was one of the few whp wasn’t impressed by RG3s rookie season and people called me a hater…I wasn’t impressed because his success came playing a way that was impossible to sustain success playing,,,,,where as Nicks success came while he was improving his pro style QB some point RG3 wouldn’t be able to get away with not going thru his reads, nicks success came in the confines of improving his pro style game, and playing the game the way it has proven to be a success longterm