No More Drama
Posted: June 11th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 437 Comments »The Eagles released Evan Mathis on Thursday.
Is Chip Kelly crazy? Dumb? Spiteful? That all depends on perspective.
Kelly obviously doesn’t see as big of a gap between Mathis and Allen Barbre, Matt Tobin or Andrew Gardner as the rest of the world. Mathis is more of a sure thing, but he’s also 34 and coming off a season where he missed 7 games. I’m not going to suddenly rip Mathis and act like he’s not a good player, but it is fair to wonder when he’s going to start declining. Father Time catches everyone.
Tra Thomas was 33 in 2007. He was a good LT, although he did miss 9 games due to injury. He was solid in 2008, at age 34. Until the postseason, that is. Thomas struggled in the playoffs. It was the first time you ever saw big number 72 on the left side and didn’t feel confident. He was a free agent after that season and the Eagles let him walk. Thomas went to JAX and started 3 games, the final starts of his NFL career. Thomas went from franchise LT to being a backup on a mediocre team in a short span.
I’m not saying the same thing will happen to Mathis. Thomas had started for a decade before he started to decline. That’s a lot of wear and tear. Mathis, amazingly, has just 78 career starts. To put that in perspective, Hank Fraley had 119 starts under his belt at age 32. Mathis might remain a quality starter for several more years. The Eagles either don’t think he’s all that good now or that he’ll decline quickly. Or some combination of the two.
Mathis now hits the open market. He’ll be able to pick his team, although I’m not sure he’ll find a scheme that fits him any better than the Eagles. I hope he gets the money he wants, but I have serious questions about whether that will happen.
The timing of this move is awkward. The Eagles got to see Barbre, Tobin and Gardner in action for a couple of weeks, but there was no contact so you can’t really get all that much from watching the OL. I doubt the coaches saw anything that made them suddenly feel Mathis was expendable.
Reports leaked earlier in the week that the Eagles had pulled an offer to Mathis off the table. Maybe this leak upset Kelly and made him just say “Enough is enough.”
I don’t know if the Eagles were holding onto Mathis in case they could somehow make a trade or as insurance in case someone got hurt. Whatever the reason, they changed their thinking today and released Mathis. There is a lot of risk for both sides. Mathis isn’t sure to get someone to pay him the $5.5M he was due from the Eagles.
And OG becomes the weakest position on the Eagles. There isn’t anyone who is a foundational starter. The Eagles need a CB opposite of Byron Maxwell and a Safety opposite of Malcolm Jenkins, but they do have those proven starters. Barbre, T0bin and Gardner have some starts, but none has the kind of track record you want in a player that you would build around.
If there is one benefit to the timing, the Eagles have the upcoming minicamp and all of Training Camp to get reps for the young guys and to find the best 5 starting OL.
Kelly and his OL will have the final say in how this situation looks. If Barbre is good at LG and one of the other players emerges at RG, this won’t be such a big deal. If a DL beats one of the OGs and gets a hit on Sam Bradford that results in an injury, Kelly and the Eagles will never hear the end of it.
One of the strangest offseasons in recent memory continues to be just that, strange. What’s next, re-signing Danny Watkins?
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Thanks for the memories Philly.
— Evan Mathis (@EvanMathis69) June 11, 2015
I am going to miss Evan. I hope things work out for him. Forget about the NFL, I’m talking about his desire for a date with Selena Gomez or Katy Perry. How they have resisted him to this point is beyond me.
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SiriusXM NFL Radio
@SiriusXMNFL
16m16 minutes ago
#Eagles @MalcolmJenkins on Evan Mathis “We are focused on players that want to be here.” AUDIO: http://bit.ly/1e74Uqy .. @alexmarvez
Man, between Peters’ & Jenkins’ comments, I wonder if there was resentment in the locker room toward Mathis.
Did you see Ertz comments when asked about Mathis? “Out of site, out of mind”-Ertz… Then Ertz is quoted a few days ago as basically saying by now we know what Happens to players who won’t buy in and aren’t here working hard every day no matter if it’s June or the week before the Super Bowl…basically Ertz was implying that players who act like Mathis, will find themselves cut by chip Kelly…3 or 4 days later, Mathis is cut and Ertz was proven to be right..
If you listen closely, I think Ertz said “Out of SIGHT, out of mind.” He did go to Stanford, after all.
Today, sir, you have won the internet.
Dork of the day?
Good god. This kind of indoctrination was absurd. Mathis kicked ass on the field consistently. What more do you want from the guy?
Honor your contract, and be a part of all team activities?
He wasn’t required to be a part of OTAs. Contractually that’s optional. Mathis never dishonored his contract.
We all knew this was a very possible outcome. Chip does not want him,
Mathis will not play ball, he has to go. I just wish the Eagles could
have gotten something for him. Losing both Jackson and Mathis for nothing has been disappointing.
I hear you, but is it really the End of the world that we didn’t get the 7th or 6th round pick for him?…
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when Chip told the media that no one made an offer for Evan in two years, he publically devalued him and made it so if a team wanted Mathis, they probably would have held out Til August in hopes we end up cutting him. You lose any leverage you might have when you make it public that you haven’t gotten a single offer… After those comments, we had to be lucky to get a 7th round pick in return
So why make that statement at all? It does nothing to help the Eagles.
I agree…the moment chip made that statement I think we lost any chance at trading Mathis for value unless a team lost a guard to injury in August… This is a lose lose situation.. Mathis will lose money and sign a contract that pays him less then what we were paying him, and we lose a starting guard.. Only winner is a slimy agent who will get a commission check for the deal Mathis signs even if he makes his client Mathis loses a couple million… Mathis is going to regret not honoring his eagle contract… Hopefully we don’t also regret it…
I agree – it is lose lose and makes very litlle sense. Mathis will not get the money he wants and even turned down extra money offered last year. I am not sure what he is thinking but I guess he got what he wanted. Why he wanted it . . .?
That may have been news to the media and the fans, but i am willing to bet that that fact was already known to the other teams.
Chip is completely ignorant about the idea of getting assets in return for your players. Draft picks are valuable commodities and you don’t just piss away opportunities to get them. You wait until someone gets desperate.
Hard to trade high salary guys that come with other factors(attitude in Jackson’s case, age in Mathis’s).
Very true.
True, but I think both situations were mishandled and ended up costing the Eagles valuable resources.
How were they mishandled?
Because the Eagles should have gotten two first rounders for Jackson and probably a first and second for Mathis.
At least, that is what people will tell us because it is what those people think they could have gotten playing Madden. Never mind the fact that Jackson couldn’t find anyone to pay his salary without giving up any picks, and nevermind the fact that Mathis will likely find himself in the same situation.
Wow! Your first sentence! Haven’t been frightened like that for quite a while. I was terribly worried for 2 seconds that you were serious!
LOL
or at least 7 4th rd picks
Because draft picks and/or players didn’t come back.
DeSean Jackson: Leaks about his “gang involvement” which has resulted in nothing but him leaving the Eagles. No investigation, no charges, nada.
Evan Mathis: Kelly’s statements about no team being interested in trading for him. That ruined any value Mathis had on the trade market. Mathis would have had to start doing sit-ups in his driveway to be less tradable.
yeah, very true
Be willing to be that with an expanding salary cap, Mathis will find a contract that he likes. Someone always overpays.
Yeah I agree. So in a way, Mathis is getting what he wanted, so Chip did him a favor. I’m not convinced it was a good move, but there is probably a whole subtext that nobody outside of the organization knows, so I can’t argue with it.
It’s weird because on the one hand, it’s bad negotiating. If you want a new contract, just raise a stink and Chip will release you. On the other hand, I totally get the idea of not wanting people who don’t buy in. Why deal with any bullshit? Why keep any malcontents around if you don’t have to? We forget that Chip is still building up the core of this team, and you need to do that with solid pieces who want to be there.
Long story short, it’s both a bad and good thing.
I guess the flip side is that if you buy in, you’ll be rewarded like Barwin. Though that’s just probably because he’s white.
Did Mathis turn black or something? Oh, right, McCoy said so. ;~)
I don’t think he’ll find a higher average salary. He’ll find more guaranteed money than what was left in his deal with Eagles.
I dunno…when chip told everyone he hadn’t received a trade offer In two years, I think it ensures that teams are going to try and lowball Evan… Instead of making 5.5mil this year I could see him having to settle for like 4mil…
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Joe Banner also seems to think Mathis will regret this because he will end up losing money instead of making more money…
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If the was March maybe Mathis could get a better deal, but I think he will sign for less then we were paying him and he is going to regret this
Exactly. None of us has a real clue about the conversations within the organization. For instance, I haven’t seen Stoutland’s name even once. Or the OC’s. Surely they have input about players’ value to the team!
We’ll see. He’ll likely get a one-year “show me” deal worth a couple million, not the $5.5 he was going to get here this year (and $6 mill next year).
The bigger issue now is depth I think. One injury puts Andrew Gardner in the game, two puts Dennis Kelly in, and god forbid those injuries happen to one of our three remaining good OL. After that I don’t even want to think about it.
We probably won’t get slammed with injuries along the OL and have 4 starters out at once for a streak like we did last year, but I think it’s totally reasonable to expect stretches of games where 1 or 2 starters are out… and we really gotta hope we don’t have a season ender for Johnson, Peters or Kelce, because that will make an already suspect unit start to look REAL shaky.
Don’t assume that Andrew Gardner won’t win a starting spot…
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I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Gardner beat Tobin for the RG position,.. Tobin looked better to me on the Left side last year, and seemed to struggle when he was moved to RG..
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IMy going with Gardner winning the starting RG position, and I would assume Barbre wins the LG spot, but Tobin should make it a tough battle..
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I think are starters will be fine… But OL inuries scare the Bejesus out of me
Gardner doing Gardner things:
Gardner sucks. Tobin has some hope but I remain skeptical. People seriously don’t grasp how good Mathis is. He was a freakin mauler for us and a freak athlete. That kind of talent doesn’t grow on trees.
Last year was kind of ridiculous with injuries. Both in quantity, and our ability to seemingly get through it without the wheels flying off. But generally speaking, if you’ve got two injuries on the OL, your season is toast no matter who the backup is.
2 Injuries happens to plenty of teams. The Pats had a couple OL injuries last year and won the whole thing.
3-4 starters out at the same time is a high number, but 1-2 is to be expected. Right now I’m hoping it’s only the 1 or 2, and hopefully not to one of our stars.
I’ve got my fingers crossed that Molk isn’t the backup C this year, because if Kelce goes down for any length of time, I have no faith in a Barbre/Molk/Tobin interior, and if Barbre or Tobin are out at the same time, my lack of faith becomes a strong faith that it will be a disaster like last year’s 49ers game was.
I think we agreed that Sproles was a primary backup guard
I think Kelly thinks a lot like Belichick. This seems like something he would do. And everything always seems to turn out ok for the Patriots.
no its the exact opposite of what Belichick does. Just last year he got a 4th round pick and a tight end for an old washed up Logan Mankins
Randy Moss trade was pretty awesome as well.
Mankins is only a year younger with a higher salary than Mathis, if Tampa wanted Mathis instead, he’d be playing for the Bucs last year.
You know Makins was 2 years younger than Mathis is now and was a 6x pro bowler and 5 time all pro.
Mankins was the cream of crop regarding OGs, where Mathis is a late bloomer.
Now lets not compare style of play on the OLs. Mankins can play both zone and man, where Mathis can only play zone.
Belichick has arguably the greatest quarterback in NFL history at his disposal and has won four Super Bowls. Kelly has a guy who washed out in St. Louis and has won 0 playoff games. Stop making this comparison, Kelly has not earned it.
Belichick actually makes a lot of dumb decisions but gets bailed out because he has Brady. Of course Belichick takes advantage of other teams’ stupidity as well. Surprised he hasn’t fleeced Chip yet. Chip sucks as a negotiator.
“Belichick actually makes a lot of dumb decisions but gets bailed out because he has Brady.”
Having maybe the GoaT at QB helps a lot. But it also helps if you can scheme a Defense that hides Patrick Chung.
Belichick is one of the, if not the brightest defensive coach in NFL history. Brady helps him on Offense, especially since he simply can’t draft WR, for whatever reasons. But Belichick helps Brady with his coaching on Defense, too.
I’m really not worried about our starting OL… But I’m scared to death about what will happen if guys get injured…. I would be really worried about how we would go about replacing an injury to Peters, Lane and especially Kelce..
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I think we will be pleasantly surprised with Tobin, Barbre and Gardner..past that, I have no idea what to think… I actually like DENNIS Kelly too, I’m just not sure he is the right fit for our scheme.. He is a Big, strong, Physical guy that doesn’t have the athleticism we typically see in our Lineman..
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Think it’s safe to say we would all be more comfortable if we kept Mathis, but if our OL has 2013 Luck, we should be fine….hopefully we have better OL depth then I think…
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The Only thing that I really don’t understand is the timing, but whatever
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part of me is happy to have the last distraction out of the way….
the distraction was approaching Mariota level. Well, for the media anyway. Now what are they going to write about? They’ll find a crumb somewhere….
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No worries about our OL. CK will groom the ones that were drafted the last 2 years 🙂
I’m with Sheil Kapadia:
“seems to set bad precedent: Eagles player unhappy with your deal? Don’t show up, piss coach off, and you can get what you want.”
Technically, you get released. But if you want a new contract, apparently it’s very easy to do under Chip Kelly. Just ask DeSean Jackson. Or Evan Mathis.
I wonder how many more seasons we’ll see a good to great player cut by Chip Kelly. I wonder how long most fans will give him the benefit of the doubt. I’ll grant him that this season. He better win some playoff games, though.
Wtf?? It sets a worse precedent that you can act like a fool and be rewarded… The precedent chip set is we don’t negotiate with Terrorist and we won’t let players strong arm us into getting new deals..
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I have no idea why Kapadia will look at it that way..
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And Mr. Kapadia will be sorely mistaken when the NEW contract Mathis gets pays him less then The eagle contract he pissed away
Come on, a guy wanting a pay raise hardly compares to suicide bombers.
Yeah cuz I meant that literally.. Good one
The Eagles were under no obligation to pay Mathis more money. Hell, they could have cut him a day before the season opener and owed him nothing. How does keeping a guy on your roster for an in-place contract “reward” someone?
Voluntary OTAs are voluntary. Don’t like it? Re-negotiate the CBA.
Huh? What Are you talking about? Mathis wasn’t looking to be rewarded by staying on the roster, he wanted to be Rewarded with more money than what we owed him…why the hell would we reward him and give him the new deal he wants after he was the only player to not show up for OTA’s? Why would you reward that behavior with a new deal when you were already paying him good money?
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According to reports, Mathis was coming to Philadelphia on Monday to participate in mini-camp. He hadn’t missed any mandatory workout.
The Eagles didn’t HAVE to offer him anything else to show up, and if he didn’t they could have fined him.
Not understanding what you’re talking about in terms of “reward”.
Reward… Mathis was holding out because he waned us to give him a new deal even tho we already owed him 11mil… I would have hated to see chip reward Mathis, cave to his demands and rip up his current contract and reward Mathis with the raise that he wants… I would hate to see Mathis get the raise he wanted after trying to hold out….
I think it’s naive to assume that Mathis was going to report to mini-camp and just because of that everything was going to be hunky dory. It was too big of a risk to let Mathis report and then potentially suffer an injury that would require the Eagles to pay his full scheduled salary. Wasn’t Rosenhaus Lito Sheppard’s agent? If so, he has a history of having players milk minor injuries and sit out until he gets his way contract wise.
If you cut him a day before the opener you’d owe him $1M in dead money just like we’re paying him now. If we released him before June 1st we’d have owed him $2M in dead money.
I will bet cash money that Mathis makes less than $5.5M this season.
I would not bet against you on that.
If that was the case, every player who wanted to be released would do sit-ups in their driveway.
First, what he wanted was a raise. He didn’t get that.
Second, before you worry about the precedent for the future, you have to worry about the message for right now. “Buy in. Drink the shakes. Monitor your sleep. Win the day. Be great. Or, you know, don’t. Instead, complain publicly, participate only when forced and collect millions of dollars and a starting gig.” Not really the message we are going for, and probably worse as a precedent.
It is a bad situation no matter what. the was no magic wand for Chip to wave.
Ask Jackson about the millions he gave up? Not sure that’s the example you want.
Everybody still sticking with the optimistic outlook on our oline for this year?
Yep.
Chip Kelly: Not Racist Anymore. And I think Dennis Kelly is gonna win the starting gig and it won’t be much of a difference.
The OG battle this summer will be interesting, to say the least. UDFA and PS offensive lineman now know the window of opportunity is wide open. Hopefully a few of them will seize the opportunity. I just don’t see them going after a FA or trading for an OG at this point.
Risky move by Chip, but enough is enough with this guy. Oh, and thanks again for being an integral part in yet another Eagles’ offseason blunder, Drew Rosenhaus. How this was in the best interest of your client, I have no idea…
Agents are scum but you have to know how to deal with the scum. Roseman seemed to have a pretty good working relationship with Rosenhaus and most of the agents. Good or bad, he was a little more flexible compared to say Banner. Kelly seems to take much more of a hard-line approach.
I’m glad CK took a hard-lined approach to this matter. Mathis was going to be the oldest projected starting OG in the NFL this year, he was already making great money for his services, and still had some well paid years left on his current deal. Maybe if he would have showed up to practice (regardless if they were voluntary or not) the past two years instead of posting smart remarks on social media, maybe that 1 million would still be on the table. Even if it wasn’t, he could have at least given the team that resurrected his career a little more respect than he showed recently. Sorry, I used to really like Mathis, but right now I just can’t stand the way this all played out, and I don’t blame CK one bit for how this all ended. Either throw anchor or set sail bitch…
Now, I’d agree, but the slight raise/incentives package that Roseman offered in 2014(when Mathis was a year younger and likely had not yet missed 7 games injured) seems fair. Mathis and his agent were idiots not to accept that.
I’ll never understand someone who turns down free money. Especially after age 30.
Yea, I just don’t understand why they turned it down (cough**Rosenhaus**cough). Conner Barwin was happy to accept his raise, and he’s much younger…
100% agree… I would have hated to see chip cave and reward Mathis with more money after all this
I would t mind cutting all rosenhause clients and never dealing with him again
Agree on Rosenhaus. I’ll be stunned if Mathis makes more $ anywhere, but you never know.
It doesn’t seem as much a “risky” move as a bad move, though.To me, “risk” means there is upside potential. Does anyone, including Barbre’s and Tobin’s mothers, think the Eagles OL is better without Evan Mathis? So, where’s the upside to the risk?
It’s a zero sum game. Any money you’re not spending paying Mathis this year, you can invest in other players. Short-term if they want to bring in an OL free agent. Or long-term if you want to extend players this year or have more room to sign FAs next year. Or some combo platter.
Pretty sure Eagles are well under the roll-over limit, so, yeah Mathis’ $5.5M will be available next off-season if they don’t spent it this year.
That said, you don’t cut a quality player at a position where you already have limited or no depth in order to save a little cap space for next year, unless you’ve given up on this year.
That’s what makes this all the more…weird. I don’t know what to believe. Is Chip cutting all of Howie’s signings out of spite? Is he a megalomaniac who if you look at the wrong way or ask for a raise, you’re gone?
One thing I’m reasonably sure of is Chip hasn’t given up on 2015. So, why cut a player you don’t need to cut when he’s done what he’s needed to do?
There is no roll-over limit. Any salary cap room you have remaining automatically gets rolled over at the end of the year. I think you’re thinking of the rule that says a team has to spend a certain percentage of the cap over a 4 year period.
I don’t know why I thought there was a limit in the 2011 CBA. Maybe because I’d expect Oakland and Tampa to have accrued like $200M in extra cap space by now, heh.
Yeah, not too many people understand the value of cap space.
Agree. This is in essence a bad move, but one they had to make. Risky because they could have just sat on his contract and played hardball with his possible upcoming holdout from mandatory minicamps. I think Mathis may have just relented and showed up for mandatory activities. Yet, CK just said thanks for your previous service, but I’m done with this contract situation. If he can find more on the open market, then go get it and let this team move on. CK just ripped off the band-aid. Sure it may have reopened a wound along the OL, but probably less of a pain in the long run… fingers crossed…
We can extend Kendricks now!!!!!!!!
…..sigh
lmao
Cox money for next offseason. Or Bradford. Wheel keeps on turning.
Funny how people complained that the Eagles had no long term OL prospects. Then when they focus on developing a few , which is how you get serviceable starters, and also free up 9.5 mill to sign replacements next year, it’s “clearly a bad move”. Mathis made this happen, football team will be fine.
Your logic is faulty. The Eagles’ backup Offensive linemen don’t suddenly become long term prospects because of necessity promotions. They are still the same guys they were before Mathis was released.
And that may be very different from the public perception of who they are. Players develop all the time, esp OL, esp OG. Stoutland is a good coach, we’ll be ok.
As I pointed out elsewhere, losing Mathis is an undefined hit for 2015, but almost certainly puts as in better shape for 2016. Just as losing Jackson hurt some undefined amount in 2014, but put us in considerably better shape for this year.
Maybe, we haven’t even played a game yet or seen Tobin/Barbre practice this summer.
At least we don’t have to potentially worry about our aging OL as much anymore.
Over-under on games played for Sam Bradford just dropped from 8 to 6.5.
I understand that Chip has a certain culture and wants players who buy in, but this is the NFL. Talent matters. A lack of talent on the offensive line was the single most significant cause of the offense’s dropoff last year and Chip’s offseason moves have guaranteed it will be an issue this year as well.
Why bother trying to rationalize Chip Kelly? He’ll either make this work or get fired in 2016.
I think its funny that people like you say he is either going to be super successful or crash and burn. There is an in between, i.e. 10-6.
10-6 is like his peak right now. Lurie wants a Superbowl or else he wouldn’t have fired Andy.
Its proven that if you do have success you get a long leash from Lurie, like Andy. It just stupid in my opinion that people think he will either win a super bowl or crash and burn. Theres the whole being mediocre part too.
I don’t think Roseman would still be with Eagles if that was the case. The feeling I get is that Lurie is basically saying fine you want control I’ll give you plenty of rope but I’m keeping Howie around in case you hang yourself from it.
Meh, a good coach is much harder to come by.
Andy Reid won three playoff games over his first three seasons, including going to the conference championship in his third year. He also had 5 consecutive seasons of 11 to 13 wins, in his 2nd through 6th seasons, with that super bowl appearance.
That kind of performance gets you a long leash.
Mcnabb
Jim Johnson.
dawk, simon, douglas, vincent, taylor, trotter, hey, we had a pretty good team!
Reid hired JJ
Reid made many memories here. People rag on him for many reasons but he does have a legacy here.
Reid drafted McNabb…
And those kind of results (10-10 in playoff games; 1-4 in Conference Championships; 0-1 in SB) are probably more of an influence on Lurie than we assume. Chip has been given the keys because Lurie wants results different from the Reid regime.
I don’t think he’s going to crash and burn as in go 4-12 crash and burn. He’s too good a game day coach for that. But with all the roster turnover and questionable personnel decisions he’s made I think 8-8 is a distinct possibility, and given that this team is completely Kelly’s baby now that should put him on the hot seat going into 2016.
I disagree. His leash is longer than 2 years. If this team stays healthy 8-8 won’t happen. Health, for any team, is important.
Ordinarily, I’d agree with you. But with his power grab this offseason, and his radical remaking of the roster, Kelly essentially laid down a marker that says he thinks he’s the best football mind in this organization and deserves total control. Fine insofar as it goes, but it comes with the price of total accountability – as we learned from Spider Man, with great power comes great responsibility. What happens if Foles plays well in St. Louis and Bradford struggles or gets injured? If McCoy runs for 1500 yards in Buffalo while Murray struggles after getting 400+ carries last season and Alonso gets hurt again? If Nelson Agholor doesn’t adjust as quickly to NFL pass defenses as hoped while Maclin thrives in KC? If the interior of this offensive line performs as badly as it did when Mathis and Herremans were out last season? None of those possibilities are remotely out of the question, and if they do happen I think 8-8 is not only possible but likely. In that case, Kelly’s leash should be short, because he would have been given power to remake the roster in his own image, done so, and fallen flat on his face. As for injuries – if this team gets decimated by them, I’m less likely to accept it as an excuse for Kelly than I would be for another coach. Key acquisitions like Bradford, Murray, and Alonso carry known injury risks so if they get hurt Kelly can’t claim he has no responsibility. And the lack of depth at key positions such as OL and WR is also his doing. It’s worth noting that for all his accolades Kelly hasn’t accomplished any more in his first two years as Eagles coach than Ray Rhodes did – in fact, he’s accomplished less, as Rhodes won a playoff game. And we know how that ended. His boosters like to make it out like these moves are strokes of Belichickian brilliance and are merely a result of Kelly being the NFL’s next great iconoclastic visionary. I’ll buy that when Kelly’s sitting on his fourth Super Bowl ring.
Agreed. But I view this as a year 1 of CK. I think he gets more than 2016 to prove his worth. CK completely put his neck on the line with that holy trinity of injury prone players. Odds of all 3 getting hurt again, probably not so good. Odds of 1 of them getting hurt — I’ll take that bet any day as sure enough one will. I look at as, CK’s offense put up amazing numbers with an ‘OK’ QB. IF Bradford stays healthy, we might be looking at a team record setting offense – even if Murray goes down.
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Maybe that’s his genius side. Even with all these moves(some questionable), CK shows a reason. Right or wrong, he always has something to point to as the reason. Giving us a mirage that he’s in control…
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let’s say — no player gets injured. What’s the expectation? 12-4? difference of 4 games from 8-8 — would that be enough to for Lurie to say good by to him? I certainly hope not as that’ll mean changing of management/coaches all over again and another 3-5 years of rebuilding. You have to wonder though — Lurie gave Reid a long, long leash. Too long. How long is CK’s leash?
I’m sorry, but for the past few months I have finally understood what people mean when they say Negadelphia. This place is the mecca of the sky is falling mentality.
This is what you are essentially saying: Kelly has taken a bunch of chances and if they all don’t work out then I’ll have a toldyouso to hang my hat on for being right in the opinion that Chip Kelly isn’t the ridiculous genius that a very, very small group of very, very loyal fans think he is. And I will strawman anyone who supports him as one of said completely unreasonable sycophants, who all need a telloff asap.
Well good job buddy, you’ve preemptively told off Kelly and anyone who likes him, and we sit totally warned that you are just not convinced that Kelly is the second coming of jeebus (can’t be, Kelly just hired him as 4th string QB) that all of you who defend his decisions must think he is. Thanks for the doomsday warning.
Me? I’m gonna say, “how interesting. These are some risky moves and some will probably work out and some won’t. So far Kelly has shown a method to his madness, and many people whose opinion I respect (ask his coaching peers) have confirmed as such. Trying the same old same old has gotten us exactly no superbowls, why not give a new perspective a chance and enjoy the ride along the way instead of just poopooing every departure from what I perceive as NFL standard for the sake of it.”
It’s like the loudest among us are the ones who absolutely NEED to tell off the coach because they NEED someone to blame right now and are ready to witch hunt the first person to try something different. DON’T STEP OUT OF STATUS QUO CAUSE IF YOU DO AND IT DOESN’T WORK OUT PERFECTLY THEN YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY BE FIRED.
Doesn’t leave a lot of room for growth and innovation, does it.
Kelly’s “plan” may or may not work out. But DAMN am I glad that dude isn’t fear-frozen into squelching any innovation that has a chance to fail. It’s as if there’s only one way to a superbowl, and how dare you suggest otherwise.
And… I’ll stop here for the day.
I’m not a negative person. I’m a skeptic when there is reason for skepticism. And in this case there is plenty of reason. I’m skeptical Sam Bradford can stay healthy and be a good quarterback because in 5 years in the NFL he has never managed to stay healthy nor be a good quarterback. I am skeptical that DeMarco Murray won’t suffer a dropoff because almost every other running back in NFL history who had the kind of workload he did last year suffered a dropoff the next season, and he has a history of getting hurt to boot. I’m skeptical a competent duo of starting NFL guards can be found among the trio of Allen Barbre, Matt Tobin, and Andrew Gardner because none of those guys has shown themselves capable of being a competent starting NFL guard in the past. I’m skeptical that Byron Maxwell will solve all our DB problems because the history of fourth wheels in great secondaries getting paid big money in FA to go elsewhere isn’t good. I’m skeptical of Nelson Agholor equaling Jeremy Maclin’s production from last year because doing so would be an aberration from expected performance level for NFL rookies at that position. Etc.
Obviously there is upside to the risks Kelly has taken. It’s possible this team will go 13-3 and win the Super Bowl and my skepticism will be invalidated. But to adopt such an optimistic view I’d need some reason to believe Kelly’s moves will succeed. As the saying goes the best indicator of future performance is past performance and in their case the record of past performance is not good.
But you’re not a negative person.
Ascribing a high probability to bad things happening because bad things have happened under similar circumstances in the past isn’t negativity. It’s realism.
The two are not mutually exclusive. I would hardly call you a realist, though, when you think that the negative outcome is to be expected from every variable.
You are just preparing for the worst and hoping for the best, I get it. Enjoy.
I am not expecting the negative outcome from all of these variables. Just some of them. The thing is, they’re all of significant consequence that even one or two turning out badly will have a significant impact on the season’s outcome, and many of them are interconnected. If Bradford gets hurt, for example, I think the ceiling on what the team can accomplish immediately drops significantly. And given his track record and the interior OL he has in front of him you have to ascribe a higher probability to Bradford getting hurt than you would for the typical QB.
The Oregon blueprint: make Chip Kelly your head coach and make a lot of noise for four years, then win it all when he leaves.
If Lurie wanted a superbowl and that’s it he’d have fired Reid in 2010. Lurie is the kind of owner that will give a coach enough rope to hang themselves. He’s not the Raiders. I think Kelly gets at least 3 more years even if he misses the playoffs this year (assuming it’s not some monumental thing where either the players mutiny or Chip starts ripping into the organization publicly).
You know that Mathis is pretty average in pass pro?
“Pretty average” is better than “atrocious”, which is what Gardner/Kelly/etc. were last year. Besides, it’s not just pass pro that matters. Taking away one of your best run blockers weakens your running game. A weak running game means the defense can tee off on your quarterback more. It’s all connected.
Bottom line: teams do not get better over an offseason by subtracting multiple Pro Bowl caliber players from their lineup.
Gardner was just as good as Mathis in pass pro once he took the RG spot from Tobin.
A weak or a strong run game does zero to a teams play action success (only part where run game should affect pass game). Its more about committing to the run game and formations than success that dictates defensive formations
You’re whistling past the graveyard.
A weak running game does affect play action, because if defensive backs know that the opponent has a weak running game and their front seven is capable of stonewalling it, they can afford to be less aggressive in run support, which means they are less likely to bite on fakes. If I have a Louisville slugger, you will take it seriously if I feint like I’m going to hit you with it and act accordingly to stop me. If I have a nerf bat, you’re far less likely to react that way. The Tobin-Molk-Kelly-Gardner revolving cast of backups at interior OL last season was the NFL equivalent of a nerf bat. You don’t win with scheme alone in the NFL. You need talent. Unless everything goes right on this OL (not to mention Agholor making a seamless transition to playing NFL WR), I think we’re in for a long, frustrating year that reminds us of that.
Really like the slugger versus nerf bat apology.
And you know that players never progress, ever.
And there is a zero sum game between scheme and talent.
And that everything has to go perfect for there to be any success.
Dude, just stop watching, you are chicken little incarnate.
Far from it. I thought they’d be in the NFC championship game last year. I’ve been following the Eagles since 1988, and I am more optimistic than most fans going into most seasons. This is not one of those seasons.
Ehhhh. Can’t agree with that. I could give a provisional “yes” to Tobin being as good as Mathis in pass pro based off of what I saw last year (provision being that he doesn’t have a high ankle sprain this year), but Gardner was a train wreck in pass pro every game he played. I don’t think the sky is falling if Barbre and Tobin are the Gs this year, but if either of them get injured, then you can put me in the chicken little camp, unless they can find some quality in trades or on the wire. Gardner and Kelly would have to be significantly better than they were last year for it to be anything other than a train wreck again.
disagree
The way I look at it, we just had our first OL injury for the season. Play on…
The difference is that we chose to injure him. I like the mindset though.
For those questioning the timing and not waiting til just before the season… injuries, attitude, etc. Read what Jason Peters said about who is lined up to his right…
“You got to have some chemistry with the combination blocks, with the
games, who you’re going to. Once you get to working with the guy, you
get comfortable with him real quick. It only takes about a month and
then you know what he’s going to do, what he’s saying, the lingo, the
code words. It gets real easy after that,” Peters said.
“You know what he’s going to do. You know his set lines. You know how he’s going to come off on certain blocks. You know how to get yourself in there
with him and that’s what I’m doing with Al right now. For the most part,
we’re clicking. If I had to say from one to 10 right now, we’re about a
seven, seven and a half.”
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/Peters-DeMarco-Murray-Will-Gets-His-Yards/ead52511-e284-4ce1-8cf3-aa7b766bb5a5
Mathis must be a 9.5 since that left half of the OL was very very good for years.
Had time to get that chemistry. Peters believes he will have that chemistry in a month with Barbre.
But that is only one part of the situation. The main part is the OG starter needs to be able to do his job at a high consistent level game in and game out over a season, something Barbre has never done before. Mathis was not some run of the mill OG, he was a very good and consistent one.
Brilliant. Never let someone without being a regular starter fill a position. Hard to be proven without given the chance.
We’ll see what market is, but Mathis seems pretty stupid to me right now. Boss offers you million dollar raise, seems a good idea to take it and say thank you. There can’t be too many teams with unmet needs at G AND a style that Mathis fits AND $6MM to spend.
Did you see the deal the Raiders gave Nate Allen?
They were having trouble hitting the salary floor and had to over pay some guys to get there.
The salary floor is based off a 4-year period, not a 1. They still need to spend money.
I seem to remember them being well under last year, but full disclosure, I don’t plan on fact checking that. They have trouble getting high demand, high price players to come their way, so they have to create their own by giving them deals like Allen’s.
Stupidest thing I may have ever seen… The Raiders had a bidding war against themselves for a Player that hit the open market a year before and no one wanted him
..
Hope we get to play against Nate in the near future . What a ridiculous contract he got
To be fair I still run into people who think Nate allen is a good safety. They think he was misused and blame the rest of the secondary. Now that’s mostly just fans, but those people do exist.
The problem in trading for Mathis isn’t Mathis, it’s his contract. He is slated to make 12 million over the next two years for a 34 y/o guard who just missed 7 games last year. Compare that to a 32 y/o Herremans who got released and signed a one year 2.25 million dollar deal. Honestly I thought Mathis’ posturing was so that the Eagles did not ask him to take a pay cut. I do not think that Mathis sniffs anything close to 12 million over two. He turned down Rosemans 1 million dollar a year bump. I honestly am for every player in this league (and college for that matter) getting every dime they can but I just don’t see Evan making more than he was scheduled to make in Philly. I do not blame the agent. Mathis is no 21 year old college kid. He has been around for years and should know his worth on the open market. Or will soon.
Great title. Wouldn’t be surprised if the player comments this week sealed the deal. Not because of anything they said, but it was public drama, and a distraction. No doubt this hurts the team for this season, though how much will never be known for sure. But there’s also little doubt that 9.5 mill for next season will make the team better than it would have been with Mathis. Just as this team is clearly better this year with 18 mill or whatever they saved by cutting Jackson last year.
Question, how much money does Mathis still get from us? I’m curious because if he still gets some from us this year he could end up double dipping to get back to 6.5 mil or more.
Guess we’ll see, but this might have backfired on him financially in a big way, depending on what kind of contract he gets out there.
Nothing.
http://overthecap.com/player/evan-mathis/748/
Doesn’t he still get the 1,000,000 prorated?
That money still counts against our cap but he already physically received the money at the time he signed his contract with us in 2012.
Thanks, I’m no salary cap expert so I wasn’t sure. So basically Evan has to hope he can make up the whole 6.5 himself huh? Good luck buddy.
Mariota still has not signed contract…
think we just cleared space for a first round contract.
lol
Figured it would happen. Of course I think it makes no sense, but that’s why I knew it would happen. All moves = opposite of what I think would be good.
Geez I was on the road driving most of the day and missed all the fun!
We all talked about the Daniel Jeremiah podcast with Jon Gordon and I think the way this played out is exactly what they were talking about. Peters, Jenkins, and Ertz all seem to indicate that Mathis didn’t want to be here, and it seemed maybe they didn’t want him around.
So, as the podcast indicated about “energy vampires” and those who don’t buy in – it’s harder to establish a culture when you still have people in-house not buying in. So you get rid of them. It seems that everyone on this team (from the outside) is buying in. The only one who may have a problem is Earl Wolff.
I have no idea how this will play out, but another point from the podcast I think is going to be relevant with this team. Gordon talked about teams with good culture are better equipped to handle adversity. I think the Eagles this season will have their fair share to start the season. How they recover from that will determine how strong this culture is.
All this nail-biting. Didn’t wily veteran Peters say he’s good with whoever plays beside him? Didn’t someone with the /eagles say last week that Boyko was looking decent so far? And maybe Bunche? Why the fixation on the assorted backups etc., who played last year, without any thought given to the new guys? Why do so many assume there will be no changes on the O Line when there have been changes everywhere else? Before the sneering about UFA’s begins, maybe ACV can repeat his post about who was blocking for Emmitt Smith during his most productive years. Two third round picks and two UDFAs, wasn’t it?
I like other headlines that CK ‘continues his overhaul by releasing another pro bowl player’. It wasn’t in CK’s game plan to rid themselves of Mathis. MATHIS decided to be the distraction. Don’t be a distraction under CK.
…..
I know a lot of people like to jump on CK but we don’t know what happened behind the scenes. Maybe Mathis said there’s no way he’ll play this season? Maybe CK doesn’t believe in shoe horning a disgruntled player to a starting position. Whatever the reason, CK wasn’t sitting in a lounge chair, chewing on ribs, with bbq sauce all over his face and say ‘hmm, because that pork got stuck in my teeth, I’m getting rid of Mathis’.
Part of being a good leader/manager is being able to deal with dissatisfaction from your underlings in such a way that it doesn’t become a distraction. Sometimes getting rid of the person in question is the only option but it shouldn’t be the first choice, particularly in the case of talented, productive people like Mathis. And we’ve seen Kelly get rid of quite a few such people already, so there’s a pattern here.
yeah, that’s what I scratch my head about. Does CK simply say, ok, enough of this, you’re gone. Or is there a side we don’t hear about happening? Is there a chance Mathis said that there is no way he’ll play for the Eagles? Or say something like, Fine, I’ll come to camp about I’ll just go through the motions?
….
Or is CK just vindictive? I’m with you on this, there is a pattern…
I don’t know either, but there were rumblings of this last off-season too so obviously Chip and him weren’t seeing eye to eye. I don’t know maybe he walks around nova-care making snarky comments all day and people just got tired of it? I honestly wouldn’t put it past him. I mean we just get bits and pieces of Even MAthis on twitter and what not. If he’s like that 24/7 I could see it wearing thin.
It could be age too. I mean he’s 34 coming of a season where he missed 8 games. I don’t know I’m reaching here. I liked Mathis, but like I said maybe he wasn’t as well liked by people internally.
Perspective:…. just a few years ago, before mathis became a top Guard, he was a lot like Allen Barbre, older player who hasn’t had much success, but our coaches saw something in…
…
2011 Kelce was a 6th round afterthought, and we get to camp and find out this crazy old bastard Howard Mudd wanted to start this undersized rookie 6th round pick at center over an accomplished veteran Jamaal Jackson..
…
These moves were not very popular, how could they be? Coaches saw something and they ended up being great additions.
,.
Think The staring OL will be a pleasant surprise, but potential OL injuries really scare me
…
If Earl Wolff doesn’t get on the field with his teammates for next weeks mandatory camp, he could be the next player to find his neck on chips chopping block
I don’t have the best of memory — I thought Kelce was put in because of injury…then wally pip’d Jamaal. Again, just my old memory.
….
You can paint me as one as not too concerned. All-pro starting OL go down every year with year ending injuries. When that happens, teams don’t throw up their arms n quit. Plenty of time to get players ready to do some quality starting at RG.
….
Wolff — can that guy say ‘me’ or ‘I’ anymore than that last interview. egads.
I think Jackson was coming off an injury. Could be wrong.
he had a bad ACL tear the first game of of 2010 and we had to deal with Dallas Reynolds the rest of that year. Jackson was never the same when he came back. Kelce won the job from him in camp. Howard Mudd loved Kelce.
And Jackson complained about Mudd like Graham talks about Washburn.
At least for the most part Mudd lived up to his billing in 2011, taking JP to new heights, turning a Journeyman afterthought, Mathis, into an all-pro, along with turning a 6th round under-sized rookie into a starting center, all this after the lock out in an abbreviated off-season. If not for Danny Watkins I suspect Mudd’s brief tenure here would have been the stuff of legend.
Think Mudd gets associated with Washburn and gets a bad rep (I think). He wasn’t disruptive and did good work here. The way JP dominated that season was unlike any OL I’ve seen.
Jackson was the opposite of what Mudd liked in OL.
Remember that now. Same game we lost Weaver in. That was a nasty knee injury too.
Forget, but eventually Jackson was cut because Unproven Kelce kept the starting center spot. Jamaal never started for us again after we drafted Kelve
…
I prefer the recent interview from Cox who says we will prove to be the #1 ranked front 7 and that loves to play against Tyrone smith
Chip has massive hubris. I’m all about #culture (there’s a difference between being a “locker room cancer” and holding out for more money (especially when its something as simple as skipping a VOLUNTARY FRIGGIN’ WORKOUT) in terms of #culture), but its impossible to look at this a good or ok move. I think this kind of mindset will wear on some older players as time goes on. Unless Chip turns in Belichekian levels of genius, more and more players will be wary of coming to this team (ex. Frank Gore). Right now, he’s still got his new car smell, but unless he finds major success, and soon, this will hurt his reputation among some players in the long run. Although Mathis might have been an idiot in his negotiating, the perception of this move in the eyes of players will be much different. Players outside of this organization, and maybe some in, will interpret this as Chip being unwilling to play ball with older, more veteran players. Until Chip can prove that he can produce SB contending teams on a regular basis, the desire to come play in this organization is not as great as we’d like to think. As they saying goes, some people would rather die on their feet than live on their knees.
I question this more than #25 or #10, as there has simply been no planning on replacing the talent he is letting go of. 34 or 24, you don’t release All-Pro guards after not drafting an OL in 2 years. That’s not a smart move. Especially after bringing in a new QB with injury concerns. Having confidence in your system is one thing, but blatantly putting your entire team in a worse position to send a message is just excessive ego, pure and simple. If the Jason Garret did this, we’d be having a field day. There is no way you can say the Eagles are better off today than they were yesterday at this time. Hopefully there’s some FA lurking out there that we can bring in, much like we did with Mathis originally, but until then you have to think this is a bad move, albeit a necessary one from Chip’s viewpoint.
I’m not saying this team will not have success this year, or the OL will be terrible, but you cannot deny that this team is worse off without Evan Mathis.
Frank spurned as because we had zero at QB
Is that a quote or just conjecture?
http://thebiglead.com/2015/03/20/frank-gore-quotes-about-wanting-to-play-with-a-great-quarterback-and-headline-created-shade/
Real as they ge quote
Thanks.
Hey Anders, I just started watching Arvingerne. Awesome. The Danes do great dramatic depictions of their culture and personal archetypes, like the BBC does re: the British. Good stuff.
Quality TV —
What’s the American-produced shows that fit in that cubby?
Can I get back to you on that?
My favorite TV program from any culture happens to be an American-made. I refer to The Wire which aired on HBO for 5 seasons. It has character development and writing that is richer than many novels. Also like Mad Men. Neither makes one proud to be to be American, but then that has never been the responsibility of art.
things must have started getting ugly after the Eagles offered a deal to that guard.
Maybe we were always going to cut him and were keeping him around so FA’s couldn’t leverage our desperation against us? If that was the case that blew up since he wen’t somewhere he’d have a better chance of starting, uhg.
Chip does seem to think he’s the smartest guy in the NFL. Most of his moves have not been comprehensible to someone with my intellect. But when you hire an unconventional coach, you let him do his crazy thing and just let the chips fall where they may. You reassess at the end of the year. If he was right, the team will win a lot of games and look good. We should not mistake our dismayed noises from the peanut gallery in pre-season as anything but the speculation of non-experts with limited information.
Reasonable argument. As you say, major success on the field will determine if Chip is a great leader or a great fool.
“VOLUNTARY FRIGGIN’ WORKOUT”
You simply don’t live in the real world, man. If you’re scheduled to make $5.5MM, not only would your boss expect you to be at the “voluntary” workouts, he expects you to be there early and to leave late. It’s about being a professional. Love Mathis, but he botched this one big time.
Lets indeed, delve into this “real world” you speak of: If your employer gives you optional training, and doesn’t pay you extra for it or you don’t need the money, would you go to it? And if you don’t go to this training, would it be fair for you to be fired over not going to it? Wouldn’t you think thats a bit much? I’d understand a benching, or demotion, or lack of promotion. But fired? Seems a bit…controlling, doesn’t it?
well — real world — you slack — you get fired. There are expectations with each job description. I work OT all the time. I don’t get paid OT. With my salary though, OT comes with the job and it’s understood. That IS real world…..
Apples and oranges. Zero desire to get into a semantics debate. That’s what 75% of the comments here devolve into anyways. You get the point.
Carry Evan’s water all you want. At the end of the day, he got himself cut. If he really wanted to be an Eagle, he would still be here. Simple as that.
Would that optional training lead to me being on the good side of my employer? Thus opening up avenues to me which may not have been open before? Would the networking I gained at said training perhaps be something I could bank on later when time came for promotion, also would it be training that would make my job easier thus leading to me not working as hard for even the same amount of money thereby actually being a raise of sorts as now I am getting paid for a job that has become easier relaxing my mind and alleviating the general stresses of my current job?
Yes, let’s delve 🙂
Also Mathis wasn’t let go (really “fired”.. in the NFL? I mean sure, not the same as being fired from denny’s. Players work for team and the NFL at the same time it’s weird). Anyway he wasn’t let go just for that I’m sure. Obviously there’s something else there.
Indeed, but delving too much causes you to lose the similarities of the original metaphor. Networking, promotion, etc. All these things have no relevance in this metaphor, which renders it moot. Which is what inevitably happens on the internet, where people argue these things down until they’ve built a strong enough straw man to get away from the original point.
I see what you’re getting at, but at some point you have to take it at face value and stop trying to break it down enough that it becomes irrelevant.
Not going to it two years in a row as a salaried professional employee and after I recently tweeted “deez” implying ‘nuts’ in response to my boss. Um, yes, fire me. Salaried professionals perform off the clock attendance all the time. It’s the nature of the beast.
I love this speculating, arguing in a void, supposition. To quote one of the biggest, self-impressed morons of our era, “We don’t know what we don’t know…” The jury is divided, mostly pro-Chip/anti-Evan, but the unknown is what makes this intriguing to me. Did devious Drew already have a team-in-waiting for Evan to get his deal? Was Chip being nothing more than tyrannical when he cut Evan? In a locker room of businessmen/jocks how much distraction is created by a waning, all-pro guard who is lobbying for a modest increase to an already healthy salary? Could it have worked out if Chip did nothing, forced Mathis to put up AND shut up? Or would THAT be more tyrannical? Or would seeds of discord begin sprouting in Chip’s new garden of star-reachers? The NFL has long embraced the ethic of “Just Win”…”Winning solves all problems” When asked if he treats all of his players the same, Jimmy Johnson, the excitable HC of the Cowboys from 1989-93 said, “No! I treat them all differently…”The argument could be made at this point that Kelly is too big for his britches. He has a reputation as being a winner, but he has won nothing yet to date. If Jeff Lurie asks his hired hand, “Chip, how does this transaction make us better?” What is his honest answer? On the other hand, Evan and Chip are both professionals, and certainly Chip knows where Evan is coming from. From what little there is to see into this issue, I think it could be no more than a player that a coach did not want to lose told the coach that he wanted out, and the coach abided. All of this blather about culture and buying in, and getting with the program…when it came to playing, Mathis was the assumed starter because he performed according to the script…end of story. But nobody wants to be in the company of somebody who wants NOT to be there.
Epic comment.
My compliments.
I can’t tell if this was directed at me, or in general at the speculation, but I agree with it.
That’s kind of like saying Desean was cut ONLY because of the gang story.
Listen I don’t know the issue here. Mathis, seemed fun, but at the same time there’s a fine line between cheeky prankster and self centered dick. I’m not sure what side of that line he fell on. We’ll probably never know. He could have been a smart ass in meetings who didn’t drink his smoothies or would openly question people. I don’t know. He also could have been just an awesome guy with a wild sense of humor who wanted mroe money. Not sure.
Were I to guess I’d say Chip probably viewed him as a self important ass-clown. Which I can see from a certain perspective. OR.. Maybe it was just about money. No idea.
Generally agree with the perspective. Kelly won the throne this offseason but better show he deserves to be there. 3rd year in and a no-show again in January won’t sit well with a lot of folks.
I didn’t see this coming and for the record I think Mathis was a BEAST, esp in 2013. I think his play wasn’t as strong last season and when Mathis came back from injury we didn’t exactly light it up.
His build was rare for an O lineman. His whining about his contract was rare for an O lineman. His need for attention was rare for an O lineman. His rise to Pro Bowl caliber was also rare: he played for 3-4 teams and didn’t even START until he came here and was inserted into a zone blocking scheme next to a future HOF LT. If JP is one of the top 5 LTs to ever suit up, how could Mathis not benefit from playing next to him?? If JP felt we’d suck without Mathis, why did he not endorse him returning?
I was initially worried, but after thought I actually believe they would not have made the move if they were not 100% certain they can field 2 quality starting guards already on the roster, or pick up a cutdown casualty for depth. Mathis himself said that Barbre was at the very least a starting quality guard. I am not sure who wins the RG spot, but I have confidence in the process. Last offseason Tobin was talked up and I believe he can improve (not be fixed mindset). Mathis was in NFL terms old. He may play at the same level as 2013, but he may also decline rapidly. Perhaps Kelly has a very astute pulse on when players skills are going to drop off. Plus when you F with him, Chip doesn’t seem to exactly coddle players.
I also predict Lane Johnson has a public coming-out party this season, after his MMA training and concentration on technique – and BEASTS men all year and becomes a top 5 or 10 tackle, making three of our 5 lineman pretty bad-ass.
End of GEAGLE-type post. sorry.
Ditto, having Lane and JP as bookends and Kelce in the middle says it all. The OL is the sum of its parts and we got 3 out of 5 manned by top-5 talent at their respective positions. Plus when you think about with Mathis we had not only one of the oldest, but one of the most expensive OL’s also.
You must mean Johhny Drama, because with Chip as Coach of the Eagles there’s bound to be more thrills and chills.
Spadaro still is on twitter saying the team has not announced the release of Mathis and thats why it is not on the website.
Does he know something?
trade?
hopefully, anything but “we failed to draft an OL for 2 years straight, whiffed on a FA and got into a pissing match with one of the better O lineman in the league to the point of having to cut him because culture or something”
maybe some team heard we were going to cut him.. knew they wouldnt be the team he wanted to go to (miami) and then said wait we will give you.. xyz for him..
that would be nice.
How awesome would it be if Kelly came out for a press conference wearing a toga to announce that Mathis has been traded to Washington for Desean Jackson and a third?
lol somehow I was able to picture that.
No, they have Spadaro on a short leash now. They treat him just like any other media member. He’s not allowed to attend the practices that the other media can’t attend either.
They didn’t just cut Tra Thomas. They traded for Jason Peters to replace him. They just CUT Evan Mathis. HUGE DIFFERENCE. This is totally irresponsible. They have not drafted an OL since the first pick of 2013. This is totally irresponsible.
Maybe our next “Jason Peters” is already in the team. It isn’t irresponsible until we see it play out.
mathis is irresponsible by screwing with the team
Even Herremans didn’t back Mathis… http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2015/06/12/herremans-mathis-brought-it-upon-himself/
What Herremans seemed to say is Kelly regards CBA-designated “voluntary” team activities as mandatory — or at least mandatory enough that a player’s failure to attend is grounds for termination of his contract.
Kelly would never say that, of course.
But the players know. And now there’s the apparent Mathis release.
Someone over at the NFLPA’s already digging through the law books.
Obviously no lawyer here, but proving intent is relatively difficult?
intent may be inferred from the circumstances . . .
that’s the jury instruction, at least.
Mathis wasn’t cut last year when he skipped OTAs.
That makes it harder to argue he was dismissed for that.
On top of all that, the NFL has a long tradition of cutting players without “cause” and saying it’s performance/salary related. Very easy for the Eagles to present that case: “After watching Tobin/Barbre/Tebow/Whoever in camp, we concluded that Mathis salary was not commensurate with the level of play he offered in comparison.”
good arguments, all.
we’d need lots of information — that we’ll never learn — to get to an approximation of the truth.
it’s all pretty idle speculation now — no matter what either side says publicly.
i think employers can just use the all encompassing “insubordination” as a cure all legal term to cover most terminations.
That’s why — outside of the context we’re discussing — employees, regardless of station, should document every damned thing they do. And especially any criticism they make about company operations.
What happened to just firing someone for being lazy ? 🙂
Sproles & Cox were absent with no consequences. Rationale for missing and behavior toward team were conpletely different. It’s not a simple not here vs here thing
They missed a single day — after having shown up.
Mathis is an *absolute* no-show.
Which he was doing as a protest to the team. It’s not about the absence but the rationale behind it (which was Herramans point as well as mine).
Don’t disagree with you.
I can’t imagine he would have a case here. The release not only coincided with his absence from OTAs, but also with the leaking of contract offers clearly from his side and his teammates speaking out against him.
Most importantly, Chip could point to all of the players who have missed OTAs over the past three years that were not cut.
I believe Malcolm Butler does have a case against the Patriots, however. Butler was kept off the field for two weeks after missing one day of OTAs. That certainly seems to be a violation of this:
“No Club official may indicate to a player that the Club’s offseason workout program or classroom instruction is not voluntary (or that a player’s failure to participate in a workout program or classroom instruction will result in the player’s failure to make the Club or result in any other adverse consequences affecting his working conditions)”
GE55:
Same reaction about Butler. But he wasn’t cut . . . yet. (Belichick likes to slap down young heroes, I guess.)
The Mathis situation is a tough to figure with any certainty.
(Unhinged has an excellent comment on this.)
We just don’t know enough of the “who shot John” details that would illuminate what’s really going on.
As for filing a grievance, unlikely as hell. Mathis doesn’t want to get too far out there as an iconoclast when he’s looking for his last deal.
As long as Kelly never outright says that failure to attend OTAs is a factor in a release, the NFPA would have no grounds
that’s what cooperators, documents, and surrounding circumstances are for . . .
Here’s a guy that knows how to play the politics of the league correctly. Herreman’s will have a job for the NFL, one of the teams, or ESPN after he’s done. Cary Williams will be popular with whatever fan base he’s with and then immediately hated when he leaves. Know the difference, kiddos. It will serve you well in life.
Maybe someday he’ll be in the position to sell out his ex-comrades, like Troy Vincent, har har.
I am just sad because Mathis wore #69, one less sexual innuendo on the team, at least we still got Cox.
Few players wore that number with more elan than Mathis — for any team.
Will be fun to see who gets it next.
only better one was Jared Allen
Great call.
You’re right. He’s a masterpiece — of what, I don’t know.
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/1112/nfl_g_allen11_576.jpg
no qualifiers necessary
Those handlebars are a masterpiece. Again of what I don’t know. Just marvel.
….of Moo Moo’s and pick Caddys.
Bonus points for using the word elan. Just don’t see that in enough comment sections.
Belichick . . . where are you?
Preparing his defense for the Malcolm Butler grievance.
But Malc still has a job . . . and photos from Disney Land
Rebuilding – save the money for later when you think you can be a contender in 2-3 years.
Otherwise it’s the wrong move.
Just throwing it out there, but who’s to say Kinne can’t step in and immediately play guard at a high level.
Who could possibly ever doubt the greatness that is GJ Kinne? Of course he can play guard, hell we should move Kelce to guard so Kinne can play center and snap the ball to himself then throw it to himself for the score. I mean anything is possible right.
I have to assume that the whole point of the sports science program is to clone 21 other copies of G.J. Kinne.
A G.J. Kinne at every position on the field would instantly guarantee the Eagles going 16-0 every regular season and winning the next decades worth of SBs.
herremans gave an interview today with philly sports radio. What a refreshing class act. Claims Mathis brought this on himself… Also seemed to stick up for chip, stating that we should wait til chip completely builds this team and then judge him. Sounded like he still thinks we are in good hands with Chip… This is why herremans will retire in Philly and have his choice of local media jobs when he retires. Class act…
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Wonder how long chip has known that he was going to cut Mathis? Sick to my stomach that we didn’t risk our 7th round pick taking a flier on Lael Collins…
Check out the Jason peters article today on PE. Some great stuff. He is putting a lot of pressure on himself and his linematea to make sure Murray has a bigger year then last year so they can prove they have a better line then Dallas. Says he is taking it personal to make sure Murray gets his yards this year. admitted Dallas has a good line but thinks ours is a little better… Wants to make sure we are the top OL this year..
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“No doubts Peters will be the best tackle in the NFL next year”-chip kelly
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Fletcher Cox thinks we should work to prove we have the best front 7 in the game..
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Love the leadership and loafty goals Cox and Peters are setting. If The OL and Front 7 can dominate th line of scrimmage this year, that alone should be good for 9-10 wins.,. Really hoping the strength of our team will be “Trench warfare”.. Dominate th trenches and the skill players and DB’s will be fine….
Football 101, win in the trenches. With the way this team is currently constructed if we accomplish that then the Eagles are a top 5 team. Of course that is barring any injuries or any other players leaving the team.
Yes sir…. Our front 7 will BRING IT… If two Guards step up, it should be a fun season…
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I want to see us combine Tôugh, physical, power football, with spread em out and get our athletes Isolated against a Pigeon,,,.. obviously Tempo. Spreading the defense thin, spacing are the hall marks of a chip offense, and that’s fine, but I would like combine that with a Tough, Gritty. physical brand of ball
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Misconception is that a spread offense equals a finesse Offense….. Show them the spread principles with Gritty tôugh, bully ball..
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I’d Love to honor the Oklohoma roots of 3 key offensive players, Bradford, Demarco and Lane, by incorporating some “2 back Power!!!”
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Murray and ryan are big, strong and Physical enough,to lead block on occasion. We could stick them both in our backfield and defenses wouldny know who is getting the ball, who is lead blocking, or if the lead block is a fake and the runner will go the opposite direction… if we are going to continue being a shotgun team in the Redzone, ATleast add some two back sets since we now have physical RBs that can be asked to block on Occassion..
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I also wouldn’t mind seeing a 3back Pistol and just pound the Rock down teams throats… I like the Idea of 3back Pistol because not only do we have Murray and Ryan !athews who combine for almost 450 lb of man Beef, but we could also stick Trey Burton in the backfield as the 3d RB…running that with our fast pace tempo should really confuse a defense. We never put 3back pistol on tape so there is no way a defense will have prepared to defend it. not only will they be unprepared for it, but Our tempo will force them to get lined up and figure out who is responsible for each back..And run a bunch of play actions fakes to the multiple RBs… It would be great because Burton has the size and some blocking ability of an Hback, while having experience as a runner, so we could easily hurry up to the line, and hand it off to Burton on a dive in short yardage situatins..
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Now we literally have 3 Probowl RB’s, two Quality TE’s..and we never had this many WR weapons, 3 youmg WRs drafted in the first 3 rounds, with Coop and Miles Austin
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Different style running backs, a more well rounded arsenal of skill player weapons.. I’m curious to see how much scheme changes we see from previous years? Obviously we will always run, inside and outside Zones, but I’m curious to see how our playbook changes now that we have different style RBs and a ton of weapons to throw at defenses?
This may be Kempski’s best article, well at least in my opinion, ever. Absolutely worth the read.
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http://www.phillyvoice.com/sports-illustrated-demarco-murray-basically-blind/
Agreed!!!
agreed as well. its an odd feeling to be on the side trying to prove a cowboys RB is great.
but he’s not a cowboy anymore folks!
lol Funny you say that because while reading the article the first thing that came to my mind is “am I really so into this article watching a ‘Allas RB be awesome while smiling”. Like you said he left the darkside and is not riding on the Millenium Falcon that is his years Eagles.
I get a kick out of practically stealing two of the few classy, intelligent Cowboys lol…. A team with the reject scum of the NFL like Greg Hardy, the wackjob Dez BRyant, young Knuckleheads Lawrence and Gregory, Rolondo McClain who is a regular Prince Charmiing lol… A team with all this Riff Raff should be trying to keep what Few high character they have lol
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I also think losing Demarco Murray could be hazardous to Dez Bryant who is a whacko. Murray was one of the few classy players. Who were great enough football players for Dez To respect. Murray was one of the few players who could reach Dez when he starts going bonkers, reel him in, and Focus Dez’s Fire onto the opponent… They left one of the guys Dez really respected and could help keep Dez in check
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Lately I have been thinking to myself, Its weird to be happy to have a classy, high football IQ, Cowboy instead of shady the best RB I ever had the pleasure of rooting for… It feels weird to be so happy that shady is gone, and be excited to replace him with a career long cowboy… I’m sure shady’s trashy, immature behavior led to this BIGTIME.
How can you write about Dallas scum and fail to mention the owner? Shame on you.
Jerry Jones is a saint, we need him to Live Forever, and hopefully soon he will get jealous of the good roster moves and the praise his son is getting, and demand to start making the roster decisions again lol..
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Dudes a plastic surgery freakshow, he is KING SCUM, since he is the scum. That’s harbong all the scum and turned his locker room into an NFL scumbag sess pool. I can’t imagone that a team with so much lack of high character is going to be successful. How can that be? During the tôugh times, that team should Implode… We have captains amd leaders at every position, these guys have too much lack of character, I cant Imagine them being able to stay together when adversity hits..
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hopefully they have a stretch of 3 or 4 bad weeks, I don’t think they have the.charactr to overcome it.. I would expect an implosion…
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But as big of a scumbag Jerruh is, for putting football ahead of any morals, Snyder is the biggest piece of trash scum owner in the Division. That dude is a rotten man… Jerruh will just sell his soul to try and win, but Snyder is just rotten
There, that’s more like it.
Murray has always been a player I’ve liked -and I know a lot of Eagles fans feel the same way.
It’s funny because I felt the same about Sproles too but without that gross feeling akin to having a wet dream about your sister that goes with appreciating a Cowboy.
Glad to see him in green.
“hoping my real eagles fans know, this be the realest shit I ever wrote, against all odds” —Jimmy Kempski
Definitely agree that it’s the best article I’ve seen him write in a long time, he absolutely killed benoit
Benoit can go choke himself to death with a belt.
“Up in the studio getting, getting blowed” I could see Kempski getting blunted while writing that piece lol
Regardless of whether releasing him was the smart thing or not for us (and it probably was, if he was really being disruptive about it. I bet Chip hates disruptive), it was definitely stupid of Mathis to provoke the situation to this extent, because I’m guessing he’s not going to get the same money wherever he signs. For me it will be REALLY interesting to see how much money he cost himself by being a royal pain in the ass.
He wasn’t disruptive, but he made the Cardinal sin. Putting himself above the Team, put the money ahead of the work.
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Chip wants guys who want to achieve greatness and win so bad that they will take every opportunity to improve and work their butts off to becoming a champion… I tnink pissing away weeks of training with your teammates is the Cardinal sin for Chip. you can have a dispute with Management, but you still have a responsibility to your teammates, especially the ones he has to work with, build chemistry with who line up next to him. not to mention he should be available for the rookies and young players
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Traditionally “Holding out” is how players handle contract disputes. Well with Chip in town, disgruntled Eagles will need to find another way to Go about it, because putting money ahead of weeks of training and the oppirtunity for individual and team growth is something I don’t think CHIP will EVER REWARD.
I believe mathis had a better chance at getting paid by being the perfect teammate all summer even tho everyone knows how unhappy you are with the contract, and prove that you are over the injury and old age hasn’t started to slow you down.. Had Mathis been a perfect teammate even tho he was so unhappy with the contract. I think he had a better chance of seeing Chip throw him a bonus at the end of the summer
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NOTHNG can come before taking advantage of every single practce and growth opportunity individually and as a team if you want to play for Chip Kellys Eagles.. At least that’s the impression I get…
This argument about whether voluntary activities are just that brings to mind a certain axiom: early’s on time, on time is late, & late is unacceptable.
Think they’re using that in a heating & cooling place’s ads in my neck of the woods lol.
I always hated that. Early is early, on time is on time.
I don’t want people showing up ten minutes before they’re supposed to. Do something when you say you will, the rest is just posturing.
I worked for a corporate restaurant for many years, and they used to have a policy that you should be 15 minutes early for your shift, or you’re late.
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So in my head I just adjusted the time for the start of my shift to 15 minutes earlier than scheduled.
If its mandatory for you to be someplace “early” then it ceases to be early and becomes on-time.
might have a wage claim for all of those15 minutes.
The restaurant in question currently has a class action lawsuit against them for their practices.
The restaurant industry runs on shady labor practices, so for me it didn’t strike me as a big deal since I’d gotten used to the way things worked, it was just a particularly dumb management tactic at that particular restaurant.
Hell yeah, restaurants in America are the worst with employment practices -and a lot of it is legal.
they have a very strong lobby.
I used to work at Chotchkies too!
http://cheezburger.com/5339863296
I was in the Navy for 20 years. 15 minutes early was on time. Easy concept after you understand why; it’s not for you its for your team.
In other words, the actual time to you are supposed to be there is 15 minutes before the posted time you are supposed to be there. And being early helps everyone else out. No I get it, it’s not rocket science.
NFL players are not paid an hourly wage. Yes, there are CBA rules and the OTAs are “voluntary”. The team is not allowed to come out and say that the players should be there. And yes, the players aren’t supposed to suffer adverse consequences for missing OTAs. It’s naive to think though that employers aren’t going to see some employees making the extra effort and opportunity to improve by attending and some players not exercising that opportunity and contributing toward the team goal.
The CBA aside though, high pay comes with high expectations and higher responsibilities than those expected of hourly wage employees. If you’re a lawyer at a major law firm, should you expect that your weekends are going to be free regularly?
The NFLPA is looking into the the release of Evan Mathis.
I really wasn’t saying anything about Mathis’ situation, just musing on the absurdity of early is on time.
“Early is early, on time is on time.”
Another guy floating around in fantasy land…
So, as an Eagles fan, when it comes to all things Eagles, are you fixed minded or growth minded?
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2015/06/11/growth-mindset-the-idea-shaping-the-eagles-offseason/
us against the world is cemented with a move like this
I think, or I “Tink”(as Irish Connar McGregor would say) that Chip wants a roster full of players who live for this game, and put nothîng ahead of training towards individual and team greatness.
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you are allowed to have contract disputes with Chip, but putting the money and yourself ahead of the work and your teammates is a Cardinal sin that Chip won’t ever put up with. Historically players have boycotted practice trying to get more money from the team, THATS NOT Going to get you anywhere with Chip. He will lose all respect for you….you better find a better way to go about your contract dispute then to stay home and purposely miss weeks of training which are Growth opportunities. this is the Ultimate Team game. Mathis play directly effects the ability for the plauers lining up nect to him to do their Jobs, Chip will lose all respect for you if you put yourself above team success.
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offensive Lineman need to Gel and have great chemistry with his Linemates. You may have a dispute with Management, but Chip will lose all respect for you if you take it out on your teammates which is what you are doing by refusing to go practice with them
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Holding out may be the traditional way of dealing with contract disputes, but you better find a better way to go about it under Chip. Skipping practice is a game of chicken chip won’t allow you to win.
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Under Chip, I almost think your best bet at dealing with a contract dispute is to show the coach, that even tho you are very unhappy with management and the contract, you won’t let down your teammates because of the dispute with Managemnt…make it Known all pffseason how unhappy you are, but once Ts time to practice, come in, work your ass off. Keep your head down and show your Charecter and responsibility to your teammates even tho you are in a big contract dispute with Management… Mathis went about it the right way Last year, problem is he is an older player who got hurt. I think had he never gotten hurt. With the way he handled the dispute last year with class, chip would hVe adjusted his contract already….Chip knew how unhappy Mathis was with the contract, if Mahis would have come in, prove that the injury is a thing of the past, work hard with your teammates, be available to help the rookies, at the end of the preseason chip may have rewarded Mathis when he least expected it…… But when you piss away growth opportunities, chances to practice with your team and try to improve a tiny bit more then the day before, ypu are committing the cardinal sin. Putting yourself above the team, and Chip will NEVER reward that…
good point.
holding out is taking ti out on your teammates which makes sense as to why peters was like, “whatever dude”
Especially at THAT position. You really really need to Gel with your offensive linemates,.. I know mathis already has chemistry with KELCE and Peters, but looking at it that way and brushing it off as Not important, is the “FIXED Mindset” Chip is so against… Sure Mathis has experiemce playing with Peters, but we can always improved on it aka “Growth mindset”
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Look at Jason Peters, have you heard his comments this week about the last 4 games of last season? He is Obsessed with his play down the stretch last year, he is really upset about not playing up to his standards and he sounds like a driven maniac obsessed with improving because he was dissapointed in his play down the stretch…. This is a hall of famer, 7 time ProBowler in friggin June OTA’s that we are talkimg about,… THATS a chip kelly player. A Hall of Fame talent still exhibiting a “Growth mindset” after years at the pinnacle of his position…. So I don’t want to hear about how it’s no big deal Mathis didn’t practice with his team for weeks because he has plenty of experience playing Next to KELCE and Peters…if the Hall of Famer takes this training serious, then Mathis should be striving to improve his chemistry with Pwters and KELCE….. Not to mention, he should be helping the young players. Why does Jason Peters stay after practice to help not only the young Ol, but he also helps ypung OLBs like Marcus Smith and Travis Long.. Why isn’t Mahis available to help the rookies?
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NO Matter what’s going on, the daily process is importnt to chip. nothing short of family emergencies should come between every training opportunity that the NFL allows. It’s not Like we are allowed to practice all summer. NFL limits when we are allowed to practice as a team, they are about to be on a 6 week break before training Camp, and you DONT take advantage of the few weeks of OTA training opportunities to try and improve a bit each and every day? I’m sure that drives Chip insane…sure you want more money, but why would you let desire for money to come between working to strive for a Super Bowl this year?
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I don’t know what the right call is. did chip go about this the right way? It’s debateable… But that’s how I think chip really looks at it…he wants 53 players who want to be champions so bad that they take advantage of every single training opportunity afforded to them to try and grow a bit every day until we become champions.. You can have contract disputes, but I don’t think you will EVER get anything you want from chip by holding out… It’s against everything he looks for in a player…
dez considering an in season boycott if he doesn’t get a new deal
So if Jerruh cuts him, you think Chip picks him up?
i wish, eagles nation would explode.
It’s hard to imagine a more entertaining scenario.
Get real…,fat chance.. Dez is the Anti Chip
that would be classic but would never happen
LOL. Dez is a walking time bomb… Can’t wait Til the day it really explodes and burries the Cowboys..
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Peyton Manning is allegedly ticked off with Denver for not get Demaryious signed yet, after he gave them a 4mil discount probably assuming it would help keep Demaryipus inDenver Longterm… problem is, Calvin Johnson money gets thrown around when you talk about Demaryious… I Pray Agholor and Jordan reach true NFL Greatness, but please don’t be TOO GREAT that we have to give over 100 million to a WR..
kelly will just draft someone else, i don’t see him dropping big money on skill positions on offense.
I’d expect Ertz , Jordan, Agholor, Huff will all be extended if Chip is still coach… He might be able to Easly get rid of Howie and Andys guys.. But I would expect it to be much different when it comes to retain Chips guys.. Of course I don’t think we will have to give any of them 100million…
hopefully being home grown matters, but if our wrs continue to put up stupid yards it’ll be harder.
Well if that does happen then it’ll be easier to justify letting them walk and just replacing them with another WR on a rookie deal.
yup
In case anyone thought Mathis release was just a bad dream seeing as it’s nowhere on the team’s website:
Chris Mortensen
@mortreport
2m2 minutes ago
In almost 5 minutes (4 pm ET), Evan Mathis will officially become a free agent after Eagles submitted his name to NFL as being released.
he doesn’t have to pass through waivers?
Vested veterans don’t have to pass through waivers in the offseason or in the regular season through the trade deadline.
Whatever happens, I hope this leads to Rosenhause getting Fired..
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need to do the research to figure out how many Eagles that scumbag currently represents. To go into the next 4 years as a Drew Rosenhause-less team would be marvelous…
Rosenhaus just does what his clients want him to do and overall he’s very successful and getting them high $ deals.
Isn’t there a difference in “doing what the clients want him to do” and “him advising the clients what to do”? I would think that because he only gets paid if a new contract is signed, correct?
Exactly. Maybe he had a deal worked out and getting released was the only way to get it. Or, maybe he makes $3.5 mill this year and Rosenhaus gets another pay day – with the players not realizing that he has a bottom line too.
ha…I’d so much Rather not have to root for players that the scum bag represents… Lol self serving Jackass, can’t wait to see how much his “great advice” and his representation of Mathis ends up costing Evan.
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his Client WANTED more then 11mil for the next two years. The point of Rosenhauses actions is to get a better deal for Mathis… I can’t wait to see what a great job he did representing his clients interests lol.
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We should start a pool and see who can guess how much money Rosenhause will end up getting Mathis on his new contract now that he is on the open Market… I wish I worked with Eagles fans, I would have this pool for money…. my Guess is Rosenhause will get Mathis 8mil for the next two years, Costinh Mathis and his family about 3mil extra that we would have gladly paid him… If it’s a 1yr deal, I’ll say he gets 3.5-4mil, which is basically taking like 1.5-2mil out of Mathis families bank account. Which is a FAILURE considering he is supposed to be doing what his client wanted right? Which is basically getting him more money then 5.5 per year….
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if Rosenhause gets Mathis a job with the Colts, Pats, Broncos, Seahawks, Packers, that pays Evan Mathis 13mil over the next two years, then Rosenhause was right and deserves praise…
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Very anxious to see the comtract Mathis settles for.. Hope he signs soon
A quote on Rosenhaus’ website: you don’t hire drew to restructure you hire him to rip up and get more.
How I see teams responding to that statement on his website.
Wasn’t rosenhaus Mathis’ agent when he signed his current deal in 2012?
Frank Gore is represented by Rosenhaus
So we should thank Rosenhaus for letting the Eagles dodge that bullet. (was not a fan of signing old man Gore)
Apologies if I missed this stated earlier by somebody else, but Booger MacFarland and Brad Hopkins made an interesting point on Sirius this morning; why didn’t the Chip / the Eagles treat Mathis like Zimmer / the Vikings treated Peterson? Just tell him to go F himself on the contract and report when he was mandated to report or face the same fines as everybody else.
Because the Vikings really wanted Peterson, and Kelly didn’t have similar feelings/needs for Mathis.
That’s a shame. Top rated guards don’t grow on trees.
they grow with practice and time on a field
But you can’t grow them out of crap seed stock.
Guess you need to be a farmer to know the difference…
You don’t need to be a farmer to see a lame harvest from last year when the starting guards missed time.
Not all things grow and mature at the same rate. Some take time and patience. That’s where the good farmer excels.
He better be a really good farmer because he has a ton of eggs all in a basket that has never shown to be much more than poor.
Is he a dairy farmer now? That’s a whole other deal.
ha ha ha ha ha ha. I might say kennel master instead given the two dogs we’re planning on starting at guard.
As long as Bradford’s not running an interstate gambling ring…
Given his Oklahoma roots, an interstate moonshine ring is more likely.
my point is mathis was not a top rated guard when we got him, and peters wasn’t top rated tackle.
they improved
That’s fair from the point that both improved, but I remember reading writers who saw Mathis on film in Cincy and were miffed that he didn’t get to play more there and were scolding that coaching staff about it. Peters, although he’s been playing HOF level football here, was a multiple time pro bowler as a Bill.
I don’t see any glimmer of hope for Barbre and Tobin being on that type of path.
maybe one of the udfa’s. they seem to think babre is really good and apparently tra Thomas says on the radio today that babre’s style will fit better with peters. so we have that going for us, which is nice….
I hope Tra is a little more accurate on Barbre than he was on stoking the Chip Kelly is racist garbage. I just don’t trust Barbre mostly because a) he spent last season laying down on the job and b) I’ve yet to read a “I wish we never let Barbre go from our team” article from one of his former homes.
I would really love to see one of the UDFA guys come in here and force his way into a starting role. I hope you’re right on one of those guys.
Dude is 30. I don’t know if he’ll ever be good enough before he gets cut/retires. The same with Gardner.
Couldn’t the same be said about Mathis before he came to the Eagles? I am in no way talking up Barbre but lets give the dude a shot since there is no other option.
No. There were a few “Mathis never got a fair shake, but played well often” articles about his work in Cincy.
Yet in no way did they try to bring him back just like Carolina and Miami. I cant see him playing so well that he was a journeyman before he came here.
I hear you, but here is an article about Mathis leaving Cincy. If you scroll down a tad you can find how seriously well he played there.
http://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/4/29/2142575/evan-mathis-its-not-been-fun-in-cincinnati
I hear ya brother, like I said I am not talking up Barbre or throw hate to Mathis I am just trying to be as optimistic as possible since they have taken slightly similar career roles to the Eagles.
I get that aspect of it, but I’m fed up with bleeding talent and not getting anything back for it.
Completely understandable.
Andy knew his OL though. Chip seems like he doesn’t give a shit as long as he can score.
He spent last season on IR. We really haven’t seen Barbre play for the Eagles. And we definitely haven’t seen him at left guard. My bigger concern is depth
Peters absolutely was a top rated tackle. He was a Pro Bowler and second team All Pro and worth a 1st round pick in trade.
He’s gotten better, yes, but he’d be a probowler for any coaching staff.
No, but he was a perfect fit. You only find Pro Bowlers on the waiver scrap heap every decade or so, so it’s frustrating to have one end like this, when he is still good. You can’t count on it happening again. Barbre might be just fine, but we have zero depth now — any injuries even half as many as last year and we are in a serious situation. Feels like a lose-lose to me — I just don’t know if Mathis or Rosenhaus is more to blame. Or if Kelly gets ticked off way too much at agent shenanigans, which may in the end be a way to manipulate him if a player simply wants to leave (which admittedly might be the case for Mathis… who knows).
My guess is that Chip didn’t want anyone, even his Pro Bowl guard, on his field with a crappy attitude.
I wonder what changed from 2014 when Mathis had a similar off season. Also, Peterson’s twitter rants were significantly worse than anything done by Mathis.
Chip just tired of putting up with his nonsense IMO.
I would counter with the nonsense had zero bleed into his work on the field (or off it if you believe what Chip said about Mathis last year in terms of the work ethic and preparation of Mathis), so the whole move seems needless.
I’m with you on both counts. Plus, to his credit, Evan is a very different type of man than AP. I’ve got to believe Chip thinks Mathis will be a distraction. Every coach sets a bar he expects his players to jump over. Right or wrong, our coach seems to set his bar very high.
People keep saying they don’t understand the timing and there must be something else to it.
We’re paying Mathis $1M in dead money not to play for us this year. If we cut him before June 1st we would have had to pay him $2M in dead money. We gave him a 10 extra days to change his mind. Seems pretty clear cut.
I’m not so sure that really matters anymore because you can roll all of the cap money into the next year as is. Unless a team is having a serious cash flow problem in the current year, I don’t think the CBA makes the post June 1st stuff as big of a deal.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/the-declining-significance-of-june-1/
It’s the saving $5.5M in rolling cap space instead of $4.5M part that is important.
But I don’t think it saves any net money. It just splits the savings (if the team elects to split them) into two years but for the same net gain vs. the cap.
You’re right. There’s no real money saved either way. It’s just accounting against the cap.
Although I really do miss the instant roster bonus trick Joe Banner used to do with contracts to give guys a ton of money up front at the time of the signing, but avoided any garbage dead money long term. The new way of rolling money took away a huge advantage the Eagles used to have.
Nah, because other teams started doing it too for the few years before the new deal.
So you’re saying that we’ll get the $1M extra for next yr as opposed to this yr even though it rolls to next yr anyways?
Yes, the savings vs dead money are the exact same long term even if we would have cut him on day 1 of the new league year.
The only advantage of doing the June 1st business is if you’re up against the cap, but still need to spend on a guy or two.
Interesting, thanks. How many years can you roll the extra cap dollars? I feel like I’ve heard 4 years before.
The analogy of a trough was made as opposed to a bucket. The water can be spread however you want it over a 4-year period.
I don’t know the internal accounting procedures well enough to give you an answer of that, but if you ever do want to read good stuff on the cap check out Joel Corry from the link I sent. That dude is a straight up genius on contracts / cap.
Interesting that in 2013 he used DeAngelo Williams as an example of someone who may get the post-June 1 designation because he was one of 2 players I believe to have that happen this year 🙂
That might be more of an interesting insight on how much DeAngelo Williams sucked and was overpaid.
injuries big factor imo
No limit on rolling but there is a cash spending floor, which is what I believe the “trough” analogy referred to.
You can roll cap indefinetly. A team must spend 90% of the cap over a 4 year period and league wide the cap spend must be 95% of the cap.
I like that: clear cut.
yes it was
This lifestyle is what Kelly wants to keep his players from thinking about . . . is it worth the pain?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD8qFqs6NrA
I’d love it if The Rock became the new OG.
He would not have put up with Casey Matthews and Nate Allen playing like a bunch rooty poo candy asses.
Would anybody be surprised if Chip Kelly went out and signed him?
no
Well being friends with the guy who just got cut is probably strike one for his chances. #culture
he’s done very well for himself after the WWE
By all accounts he’s an outstanding guy.
I prefer to eliminate vampires with the help of the Frog Brothers
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/hfshzbcvmsnkl1gcuu8y.jpg
Great TV idea and to be honest, I’ll probably watch it. But it would have been great if they would have hired a real actor for the lead character.
I don’t know if anyone posted this before (still going through comments), but Tra Thomas came out in support of Kelly on this move. Basically said people should look at the tape and see that Peters will play better with Barbre, and that Mathis caused problems in protection that didn’t need to be there.
Take it for what you will.
links?
There’s a couple, hold on. He was on 97.5.
hopefully sheil hits us with the all 22
Last one.
no. can’t be. mathis is a pro bowler.
I read it in the comments and in the papers.
and in Cincy they wrote that he was good after he left.
chip Kelly is just a tyrant.
we are now the worst team in the league. the worst line, the worst D.
Tra doesn’t know anything about anything.
not a pro bowler.. he stinks at bowling.
now barbre on the other hand, he is quite the bowler
I take it for a lie wrapped in a pancake of propaganda…
Tra supported KKKelly because Mathis is white.
Tra Thomas on 97.5.
http://975thefanatic.com/2015/06/12/tra-thomas-joins-mike-missanelli-discuss-evan-mathis/
very interesting. very, very interesting.
Tra certainly isn’t carrying water for the organization any more, so unless he’s got an axe to grind with Mathis personally, I’d be inclined to take him at his word.
Like you said. Very interesting interview.
Not the first I’ve heard of this. Apparently Mathis will sometimes revert to the scheme that Mudd taught and the rest of the line will be running Stoutland’s scheme. While Mathis may have individual success, there are problems with the line chemistry.
If what we saw were “problems” then I’m fine with that compared to the real problems that those unproven and not so good so far backups caused.
This is interesting. We’ll see for sure when the games begin, but someone posted the QBR of our QBs with and without Mathis. Interestingly, it was better without him.
On the flip side though, I’d be willing to bet our run-blocking was better with Mathis in the lineup.
Yes. Mudd was more about attacking and less about anchoring.
Got any links on this, I’d love to read more.
I’d really like to hear from you guys about this.
Re: The Growth Mindset (Carol Dweck’s book)
Disclaimer: Both my wife and father-in-law teach about leadership (and it’s really fascinating to me too)
@botto mentioned in one of his comments that both Mathis/Peters were not all-Pros when they got here, and they improved.
I think this is exactly how CK sees every player that comes in. Each player comes in with a skill set, but the Eagles (and hopefully the players) all buy in that they can improve and that we don’t know the limits of what they can accomplish.
Generally, most of us look at the roster and don’t see any stars that showed up in college and that’s how were projecting them now. The Eagles coaches and players don’t look at themselves as their close to their ceiling. They look at it from the perspective that everyone can improve with time and effort, and it’s unknowable what their ceilings are.
Now I just condensed a whole book and field of study into a short paragraph, so there’s many details I’ve left out. How big will this mindset have on many of the players on this roster. Should we be surprised if Tobin, Barbre, or any other backup takes a step forward this season (read: next man up)? Or have these players reached their ceiling and we can’t expect much from them?
I love when a guy steps up and totally blows you away…like Mathis. When it comes outta no where is the best.
Was telling a buddy of mine when we cut Mathis that I hope Chip sees something we dont, but I think there is a good chance the O-line will be bad. Don’t feel like we can assume he is, because he isn’t touting anyone (like he is at other positions). So I guess we just have to hope.
Just like with QB..
I think what it comes down to according to Dweck (sp?) who wrote the book is:
there is no ceiling.
Peters was an All Pro (second team). That came after a down season -contract hold out (#culture). The season before he was only Pro Bowl but dominant.
Yeah, I’ll be surprised if they’re much if any better than average. Very pleasantly surprised, to be sure. But it’s far from unprecedented. Mathis himself was once an example of that. Darwin Walker and Rod Hood pop into mind as guys who stepped up when they were thrust into such a situation.
I remember when Andy Reid took over, and one of his first points to the public was he brought in coaches who were teachers, and the camps and the practices were going to be all about learning. As someone on this board pointed out some weeks ago, nearly all of his draft picks were either good off the bat, or they never were any good. For me, this puts Kelly’s emphasis about leadership, and project fulfillment, and applying oneself in a different light. He wants to identify the character that is hungry to grow, and not satisfied with his present station. That seems like stage one of a strategy aiming to literally build a unit of achievers and over-achievers. The stable of DB’s that Kelly has brought in might be an interesting laboratory to gauge his approach. If one of these young, raw, talented kids can rise to the challenge and become a starter that fans begin to fear losing in FA, I think I won’t be the only one impressed. It is an inherently rational method for obtaining all of the essential ingredients for baking the perfect cake.
That’s what we’re all hoping for. The one thing about CK that I like is that he never seems to panic about anything. He trusts the process so much, that whatever comes up he is able to deal with.
What is the definition of our O-line being bad? People keep saying, “This O-line SUX if Robin, Barbre, etc have to play.” If our O-line is in the top 3rd of the league is that bad because that’s where I would expect it? We still have top 5 position players in Kelce, Peters and Johnson. If we get some continuity going on the line, we aren’t magically going to drop to bottom 3rd in the league. We haven’t even see our new line play yet but everything is falling apart. I don’t get it
Negadelphia.
I don’t think our O-line is going to be bad, just not as good as it could be had the Eagles retained Mathis.
We kind of have a strange situation. Nobody will be surprised if Peters, Kelce and/or Johnson are voted into the Pro Bowl. Like you said, you can argue those three are all top 5 players at their position and those three position are the most important positions on the OL.
But: there is also the saying that the OL is only as good as their weakest link. We’re at a point were we assume solid play from Barbre. That’s no given, but I can at least see where this assumption is coming from. Tobin, Gardner and Kelly are totally unproven, though.
I know D3FB is a huge Tobin fan, but our OL wasn’t very good last year when he played RG – and he played there alongside Peters, Mathis, Kelce and Johnson at the end of the season, so it’s not like he didn’t have good players around him. Tobin was better than Gardner, who played like the journeyman he is.
Let’s just put it this way: we better hope the saying about being only as good as your weakest link is NOT true, and Peters, Kelce and Johnson make the player at their side better.
Disagree…tobin was better at LG, when he moved to RG he struggled and Gardner out performed him at RG…. Wouldn’t be surprised if Gardner wins the RG spot and Tobin starts the season on the bench, with Barbre at LG
I did find it interesting that Tra mentioned Tobin and D Kelly as RG options, but not Gardner. Don’t think it was an accident. I’m guessing that speaks to an organizational opinion of Gardner.
Gardner may have outperformed him, but he didn’t outperform the Defensive Linemen on Sundays. If anything, Gardner beating out Tobin is a bad sign, for Tobin and the Eagles potentially.
Altough, to be fair, there are rumors Tobin was hurt even when he played.
Tobin played hurt for most of the time he was in there.
Too reasonable for a June posting. Go drink some beers.
While I would be exaggerating to say I am depressed over this, it is hard to accept.
I don’t think Chip needed to do this.
#culture
Can’t be seen to be hypocritical or the whole thing comes crashing down. The same rules have to apply to everyone.
But I thought we only cut good black players? Shady looks like an idiot today
Just today?
There are numerous examples of championship teams whose cultures did not require that the same rules have to apply to everyone and they did not crash down.
Yup. Meanwhile..Chip has yet to win a playoff game with the choirboys. I’m hoping that’ll change this year.
In fact, he has yet to play a game at all with them.
It really seems like Philly stereotype to complain about a new coach going 20-12 in his first 2 years, after taking over a 4-win team. No guarantees, but this season has some solid upside potential. At the very least, I predict they will be much more fun to watch than last year, when things never quite clicked.
Check out the links I posted, you might see something you hadn’t seen. Through sound.
Nope, not feeling any better about it.
Really see it as a positive sign for the team. Mathis was solid, but his importance to the team was vastly overrated by fans and media. Moves like this tell me the organization has it’s sh!t together.
Think of it this way: people were fretting over the long term prospects of the OL. We now have an extra 9.5 mill to fill holes in 2016. Or sign Cox long term, or Bradford, etc. Team will be fine.
Trade logan menkins for tim Wright, drop Tim Wright who goes back to the Buccaneers. Awesome.
Trade foles for Bradford, steal foles back when he becomes a free agent at the end of the season… Bradford, Foles and Sanchez… Best collection of QBs since Montana and young were on the same roster
Don’t see Foles coming back. Someone will still want him as a starter.
I doubt we can pay Bradford,,FOles and Sanchez… Would never happen
Hey, at least we have an extra 9.5 mill. 😉
Or cut a better player than Mankins for nothing. Even more awesome.
Part of being a top organization. Winning is a team game, very few individuals are worth more than the system. These moves get me more stoked for the team’s future than anything in a long time.
Well, there was a 4th round pick involved. Kind of important, don’t you think?
***MUST LISTEN TO TODD HERREMANS AND TRA THOMAS*** on Mathis
I really enjoy listening to people that are intelligent.
http://975thefanatic.com/2015/06/12/todd-herremans-joins-anthony-gargano-morning-show/
http://975thefanatic.com/2015/06/12/tra-thomas-joins-mike-missanelli-discuss-evan-mathis/
They got posted down below. It’s interesting to say the least. Glad to see Tra doesn’t hold any grudges any longer, wish he was still working with the team.
I’ll repost it 1000x. It’s as real as it gets, unlike many fans and media.
Tra probably committed professional suicide bad mouthing the coach and organization that gave you two years of coaching experience on your resume.. ripping chip on the way our, complaining that we don’t have enough black coaches… This behavior will reflect poorly on him if he tries to get another coaching job…
This was an interesting stat I saw. I do not know if anyone had mentioned this already.
Philadelphia Eagles Total QBR with G Evan Mathis on field last season: 52.5
With him off the field: 60.2
This could go with what Tra Thomas was saying about Mathis and his pass protection.
Or that Foles was better than Sanchez…
Yeah, there’s a lot that goes into that. Isolating Mathis makes no sense in that regard.
Where can I find Tra Thomas thoughts on the OL?
He posted the links to listen to the radio broadcast. Allegedly Mathis moves forward too quickly compared to his linemates, creating gaps that can be exploited.
Every writer rehashes another writer’s info. Sickening. I know Tommy does this as well, at least he adds intellect. Taking a break.
I now present to you Andy Benoit’s latest lol-worthy offering for your entertainment. Thoughts?
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/06/11/joseph-randle-dallas-cowboys-offensive-line-rushing-nfl/
Did you see Jimmy’s takedown of it?
Just did. Thanks.
A sampling of the Philly sorts media has more than one over-reaction -IMHO – of the”draconian Kelly” who can bear no brush with individual expression, nor tolerate anything less than”total immersion” into his grand scheme. One thing about a lot of sports columnists – and not just in Philly – they can be world-class simplifiers and condescending sons of bitches. Has Kelly earned the list of epithets that range from arrogant to xenophobic? I think the closer attention one pays to his words as well as his actions, the less one may be inclined to grab onto hyperbolic adjectives. In Evan Mathis, Kelly had an investment in, not just a skilled, competent left guard, but also an appreciated locker room personality. So why did Kelly feel compelled to cut him loose, if not because he’s an overbearing tyrant? For one thing, he is sticking to his own script which he needs every single team member to believe: every player not starting is an injury away from being a starter, and conversely, every starter has to win his status everyday. He needs his roster depth to embrace the notion that their futures as pro athletes requires their intense commitment to their craft. Kelly would muddle this foundational point by not reacting to an increasingly provocative challenge to it, which Mathis had provided via Twitter and his agent and which the often feeble sports media was increasingly enabling.
I have brought up the appalling turnover numbers from last season as a way to try and balance pie-in-the-sky optimism, but I cannot believe that it isn’t something that galls this Head Coach. Among the many factors that can lead to turnovers, the absence of mental toughness is the favored suspect, and how you build palpable mental toughness in a squad, I believe, is something that Kelly has been busy addressing. The emancipation of Evan Mathis may fall under that heading as well, or better than, the “simple” truths we are getting ad nauseam.