Eagles Pick Pederson
Posted: January 15th, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 808 Comments »The Eagles will hire Doug Pederson to be their new head coach when the Chiefs are eliminated from the playoffs. A few months ago, that statement would have seemed ludicrous. The Chiefs started 1-5 and there was some thought that those coaches would be on the hot seat. Chip Kelly didn’t have the Eagles riding high, but there was no things were good enough that job security didn’t seem like an issue.
How things change.
The Chiefs haven’t lost since October and are in the divisional round of the playoffs. Chip Kelly just got named the head coach of the Niners. And Doug Pederson is coming “home”…to be the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles.
Is this a good move?
No one knows the answer to that question. People can talk about their feelings in regard to the move, but only history will really tell us if Jeffrey Lurie, Howie Roseman and Don Smolenski made the right move. Just 3 years ago I thought the Eagles made a great hire when they lured Chip Kelly away from Oregon. Now he’s gone and there isn’t even a playoff win to reminisce about.
Pederson is not a sexy hire. He wasn’t interviewed by any other teams. To some outsiders, it appears the Eagles panicked and settled on a guy that no one else wanted. The problem is that we don’t know how high Pederson was on the list to begin with. He might have been close to the top. There were a few in the media who thought he would be a top target from the beginning.
You can still argue that they made a bad choice, but that’s different from panicking and settling for someone.
I don’t know if Pederson is the right guy. I know he can be. He needs the right people around him and he needs the right people playing for him.
One of the interesting aspects to the job search this year is that there was no elite candidate to pursue. Adam Gase is the guy I wanted most and he had his flaws. Ben McAdoo, who the Eagles strongly considered, had his flaws. I’m glad the Eagles didn’t hire Tom Coughlin, whether that was his choice or theirs. The search is coming under a lot of scrutiny right now and I’ll address that later on in a separate piece. For now, let’s get back to Pederson.
Lurie saw the Eagles getting away from being the kind of organization he wanted. There was a bit of a cold, corporate culture that started to take place under Chip. Things were very different under Andy Reid. Can you ever in a million years picture Chip Kelly giving this speech?
That was Big Red addressing the NovaCare staff after he was fired. Amazing.
Doug Pederson isn’t here to be Andy Reid 2.0, but he is here to move things back in that direction. Pederson played for Reid in Green Bay and Philly. He coached here for 4 seasons and followed Reid to Kansas City. Pederson has seen Reid when things are good and bad. He was part of the 4-12 disaster that led to Reid’s dismissal. He’s also been part of an amazing 11-game winning streak this season.
Critics see this as Lurie hiring a “Yes Man” type of coach who will fit in and not rock the boat. I certainly get that perception, but I think it missing a big part of the equation. Roseman’s future and reputation will be greatly affected by this hire. Lurie’s legacy will be affected. I don’t think the average person understands how much Lurie wants to win. It kills him to be the lone NFC East team with no rings.
Lurie would not make this move if he didn’t believe it could work. He isn’t an owner just out to make some money. Lurie has built the Eagles into a first class organization. He does everything he can to help the team out. He is more interested in winning games than making money. He wouldn’t just choose someone for the hell of it. Lurie believes in Pederson, whether you do or not.
Back in 2013, the Eagles went after the big names. They sold themselves to Chip Kelly, trying to convince him to leave college and come to the NFL. That process set the tone for the relationship. “Come save our team…” Lurie gave Chip every resource he wanted. He eventually gave him all the power. Lurie went all-in with Chip and it just wasn’t working.
This time out, Lurie decided he wanted a coach that would be part of the solution. Doug Pederson is not here to save the Eagles. He is here to be the coach. He’ll work with his staff, the personnel department and ownership to build the Eagles into a championship caliber football team. That’s the goal, anyway. Clearly, as we learned with Chip, there are no guarantees.
There is no doubt that Lurie’s relationship with Pederson played a big factor in the hire. You can argue whether that is a good or bad thing. Mike Shanahan was an assistant with Denver and later came back to win a pair of Super Bowls as their head coach. Tom Coughlin was an assistant for the Giants before coming back later to win a pair of titles as the head coach. Bill Belichick was an assistant for the Pats for one season before later coming back to establish himself as one of the greatest coaches of all time. Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones were teammates at Arkansas and they built the Cowboys into a short term dynasty.
There are other examples where past relationships did not work out so well.
Lurie obviously felt there was value in bringing someone back to the organization that knew how things should look and feel off the field. Lurie must believe that establishing the right environment off the field will lead to more success on the field. This isn’t to say things will all be unicorns and rainbows between the players and management. There will be issues here and there. But there will also be improved relationships between players and coaches. And that does have value.
Let’s talk about the staff for a minute. The Eagles have already hired Ken Flajole as a defensive assistant. It sounds like he will be the linebackers coach. The good news here is that almost all of his experience is in the 4-3. He was the Rams defensive coordinator from 2009-2011.
Flajole will not be the DC, but there are some rumors out there about candidates.
Source says Eagles have interest in Jim Schwartz as defensive coordinator. Do not know if he's Doug Pederson's DC choice, or the team's?
— Don Banks (@DonBanks) January 14, 2016
Just following up @DonBanks on Jim Schwartz and Eagles: they've spoken. Not sure if that was in HC process earlier this week, however.
— Adam Caplan (@caplannfl) January 16, 2016
Possible coordinators for Doug Pederson: OC: retaining Pat Shurmur or bringing Brad Childress from KC. DC: Mike Pettine or Jim Schwartz.
— Jeff McLane (@Jeff_McLane) January 14, 2016
I would love Schwartz as the DC.
Some people talk about him running the Wide-9. That’s not the case. Schwartz runs the 4-3 defense. They use the Wide-9 front at times, but there is much more to his scheme than just that. Schwartz ran Top 5 defenses in both Tennessee and Buffalo. He knows how to coach, teach and run a game.
To me, the key is to find someone who can build the defense around Fletcher Cox. In 2007 and 2008, Schwartz had Albert Haynesworth and used him creatively. The Titans were 5th and 8th in yards allowed and Haynesworth was dominant.
Pettine is a good defensive coach and I would be fine with him as well, but I don’t think he is as good as Schwartz.
As to offense, it sounds like Pederson will go with Pat Shurmur or Brad Childress as his OC. Both guys are former head coaches and solid assistants. I’m sure Pederson will be bringing his version of the WCO to Philly.
Doug Pederson started his first NFL game for the Eagles. He joined an NFL coaching staff for the first time in Philly. He has strong feelings for this organization and wants to see it return to the glory days. He now has the chance of a lifetime.
Pederson wasn’t gifted enough to be a good starting QB. Coaching is a different story. He’s done well for himself since starting that part of his career. There are no physical limitations this time. He will succeed or fail based on effort, decision-making, hiring the right people and a little bit of luck.
It also wouldn’t hurt if he could find his own version of Donovan McNabb. Instead of losing his job to a hot shot young QB, that guy could actually be the foundation for Pederson’s success.
*****
Sorry for the delay in writing this. A couple of things came up and I was away from the computer for a frustrating amount of time.
_
“Sorry for the delay in writing this. A couple of things came up and I
was away from the computer for a frustrating amount of time.”
_
Tell Megan hi for me.
LOL I figured it was that or he was pinned under a pallet of pudding that tipped over in the garage.
Lurie probably flew him off on a consulting trip to make sure he voted correctly in the franchise relocation affair.
Still inexcusible IMO.
For Tommy, why do you think there was no interest in McDaniels? He seems infinitely more preferable than Pederson.
And doesn’t the 3-4 offer more flexibility and better ST options than the 4-3? Just no more 2 gapping, I hope.
Because he is not HC material. If he was remotely preferable the eagles…or any team..would have waited. The message is quite clear.
Why is McDaniels more preferable? He was awful as a HC, and from what I’ve read he was as mercurial as Chip.
What does ST have to do with the 3-4 defense?
The general assumption is that a 34 team has more LBs in the squad and these players are physically suited to ST.
I think someone did a study when Chip was hired and debunked any statistical link between ST performance and 34 vs 43 though.
The Eagles past 3 years shoe this I think. The key ST players were all ST players first and foremost. Bryman was only on the team to play STs for example.
Let’s hope Fipp stays and Doug P keeps the level of attention Chip showed on STs up there.
I’m with you on that.
It was becoming a cold corporate vibe around the eagles.
I missed training camp live and all the coverage they use to have on the website wit dave spadaro.
Were you around when Tommy was on with Dave at Training Camp?
Live? Idk if i remember him being in a live interview with dave. what year?
Having an open camp is vital for growing next generation of fans.
idk about the vitality of it, but its a nice thing.
Ahh once again at last the lost scriptures of Thomas have returned to the land of the lost.
“The Eagles will hire Doug Pederson to be their new head coach when the Chiefs are eliminated from the playoffs.”
When eliminated? No faith in Andy, eh?
I don’t mind Doug Pederson. A HC is only as good as his assistants. Hopefully he gets some good ones.
I’d love Jim Schwartz, as long as he doesn’t bring Jim Washburn with him. Cox isn’t the only DL that needs to be re-signed past next season. I believe Bennie Logan will also be in the last year of his contract too. As a 3rd rd pick, I think he only got a 4 yr deal.
Logan was very impressive when healthy this year. He needs to tackle better but thats the only thing that jumps out negative wise.
Logan and Cox would be awesome and a 4-3 and their ability to get up the field will help make up for our lack of a top flight pass rushing DE in a way they couldn’t in a 3-4.
Exactly. Media Mike for DC.
What’s the scoop w/ Jaws being an advisor in the selection process? It seems somewhat unusual.
I understand Rocky was also given a prominent place at the planning table.
I’m also curious. Jaws certainly knows football and he knows Philly. I wonder if he’s involved in any other aspects of the team.
I had just written your alibi in the last post…
Tommy is one of the 3 powerball winners. He is with Megan indulging
in chocolate pudding baths,eating funyuns with a tanker of PBR on the
premises.
Also in the process of buying the Eagles.
Tommy, I hope all is well !!!
Let’s face it: Lurie made the classic mistake of focusing on the firing and not the hiring. He didn’t know who he wanted to replace Chip with and, despite the extra week, ended up settling for Peterson, hoping he’s somehow Andy 2.0.
Now I can buy your argument that Peterson has the football knowledge, but, c’mon, he clearly lacks the experience. The guy was coaching HS football just a few years ago. It’s almost as bad as Notre Dame hiring Gerry Faust or the Niners hiring Tomsula.
If I’m Bradford, I’m telling my agent to go hard at the Texans now.
A guy who has spent his whole life in football lacks experience… in what?
I understand firing and hiring are related, but I think with Chip, Lurie must have clearly felt that Chip was hurting the team. You can disagree with that, but the point is, if the owner thinks that the coach/gm is not simply doing a bad job, but actually hurting the product in the process, firing has to get decoupled from hiring. You can’t let Chip continue to hurt the team regardless of if there isn’t a clear option available.
Chip the GM was hurting the team.
Yep. Chip the coach had a bad season for shre, but the effect that has only lasts while Chip is here. As GM, he made mistakes that will effect the franchise moving forward. Maybe he could learn from his mistakes, maybe not. Clearly, Lurie didn’t feel like he could.
I think the mistake Lurie made was giving Chip GM power. I don’t know what was said behind closed doors, or what happened to lead to Lurie deciding to go that way, but by giving Chip the GM role, Lurie made it difficult to change directions without firing Chip.
Chip the coach was horrendous this year. Poor preparation (team seemed utterly unprepared for many of the games, such as Detroit, Washington), bad game-planning with few plays installed, the complete disappearance of “Big Balls Chip” when a surprise could have shaken things up. The refusal to vary tempo when the defense needed rest.
Truth.
“Let’s face it: Lurie made the classic mistake of focusing on the firing and not the hiring. He didn’t know who he wanted to replace Chip with and, despite the extra week, ended up settling for Peterson, hoping he’s somehow Andy 2.0.” I’m not gonna face anything. We’re not in the front office, any of us. WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT LURIE IS DOING, good or bad.
And a lot of times a coach who wasn’t the team’s first choice turns out to be the right choice. Dick Vermeil was 3rd choice, he says. First choice was Joe Paterno.
ACViking could probably talk more to this, but Vermeil wanted a receiver in the 79 or 80 draft – and told a guy from another team. They ended up picking the guy he wanted and he ended up with Mike Quick (not his first choice). Funny how that works sometimes.
At the Senior bowl, Vermeil told good friend Chuck Knox, former coach of the Rams and then the coach of the Bills, that the Eagles were going to draft Clemson wide receiver Perry Tuttle — tall, angular, lightening fast.
On draft day, as the Eagles were waiting to choose at number 20, Knox and the Bills trade up to number 19 and select Tuttle. Vermeil, shaken and angry for the betrayal, was left selecting consolation prize Mike Quck, wide receiver from North Carolina State.
Tuttle lasted only three years and played for three teams, catching only 25 passes. Quick became the NFL’s best receiver with Jerry Rice.
Vermeil learned you can’t trust anyone in the NFL.
There should always be a sound track for your comments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY1b2CzlELs&index=27&list=PL8E527FF79B30059E
You’re awesome. 🙂
Even yourself.
wow you would think telling other teams what you are going to do would be kept secret.
Problem is, neither does he.
You dont know that, neither do I. People just keep pretending they do.
Andy Reid was an obscure QB coach nobody had heard of in 1999. He turned out to be a pretty good hire.
Lurie has a solid track record when it comes to coaching searches/hires. His worst hire was Chip who still did some good things. I find it hard to believe that after 20+ years owning the team and all the success he’s had he’s suddenly forgotten how to run an NFL franchise. He’s earned the benefit of the doubt on this.
How many successful coaches has Reid picked out over the years? I’d steal every member of his staff if it was possible.
If you’re looking for a solid candidate, you’re in the wrong business. The good ones fail as much as the bad ones. I’m on board no matter what. Go Pederson.
More Crack… Less Flakka!!!
Eagles missed on their main target HC….any faith the get the DC they want?
Still not sold that they “missed”, except maybe with Coughlin, and he was a late entry. I think until Coughlin came up, Pederson was their target (outside of guys like Harbaugh and Payton). I think the interest in McAdoo was legit but I don’t believe they had him ahead of Pederson. That was all agent driven. If the Giants had a fire lit under their ass to sign McAdoo, and the Eagles really wanted him, they could just as easily have jumped the Giants.
The only guy they “missed” was Gase (and Hue if you believe the phone call story), but I’m sure they “missed” because Gase (and Hue) probably got an outsized role in the personnel department.
We really need our head coach to stay in his lane this time.
And Gase is just as unproven as Pederson.
Interesting post from our man on the ground in/on/up Twitter:
igglesnut
“Cleveland Browns: Hue Jackson tells SiriusXM NFL Radio that he doesn’t plan to have an offensive coordinator.” Bad sign.
1/15/16, 8:09 PM
That’s something Gase has said in Miami as well. Maybe we did dodge some coaching bullets this time around…
Hue is an AMAZING OC and the guy I wanted for this team, but if Haslem is going to let him run amok; he wasn’t the hire for us.
To paraphrase what he said, basically “I don’t want to take play-calling off the table. When you’re an expert, you don’t want to leave that to someone else.” Cleveland fans also say somewhere else he referred to himself in third person. Third person? Calling yourself an expert? Trying to take personnel control in Oakland? I wanted no part of this guy.
I can’t wait until two face Haslem totally reneges on every personnel promise he made to Hue and starts meddling.
Or if one of the interview questions was “Do you have a problem with me making you start RG3 as our QB next year?”
I mean does it really matter that much if he hires a coordinator like Pep Hamilton for QB or WR coach?
Jackson interviewed Pep Hamilton on Friday, but the former Colts play-caller would presumably take another role if added to the staff.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000623547/article/browns-hue-jackson-i-dont-plan-on-having-an-oc
May the Schwartz be with you.
Upvote for Spaceballs reference, but it shows your age.
Obligatory…
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrea0xMhPL1qf1sfco1_r1_500.gif
Overhead in a congratulatory call from Ben McAdoo to Pederson: “Big Red has taught you well, and I see your Schwartz is as big as mine (Giants OG Geoff Schwartz).”
I’ve only recently become a regular reader of the site, but it has quickly become one of my favorites. I love the level-headed analysis that you give, Tommy. Really, it’s refreshing. But I have to take exception with this little bit:
“Lurie has built the Eagles into a first class organization.”
What makes us first class? Is it the shiny, modern facilities? The windmills on top of our stadium? Whatever it is, it certainly isn’t because of the on-field results.
Really, think about that statement: First class. Who comes to mind when you hear that? Definitely the Patriots. And the Seahawks. I’d throw the Packers, Steelers, Ravens, Colts, and Broncos in the next tier. Heck, the Giants, 49ers, Cardinals, and the Bengals have all done more in recent memory than we have. I’m really sick of this “First Class, Gold Standard” b.s. that we fans keep getting force fed. We’re not the Gold Standard. We’re not even the Silver Standard.
Forgive me if I come across as hostile. I’m definitely still pissed off that Chip was fired. I really believed in him (while also acknowledging that he made some mistakes). But even if he hadn’t been fired, I can’t take this Gold Standard, First Class Organization stuff anymore. Those types of teams don’t draft the way we have been drafting. They don’t have GMs that no one wants to work for. And they certainly don’t play the way we’ve been playing since 2009.
Although I’m not quite as harsh as you, I do agree. We’ve had like 5 or 6 good years in the last 15. Never have won a Super Bowl. So I’m also not sure where we get this “first class organization ” stuff. On the outside looking in, it didn’t seem as coaches were banging down the door at Nova Care trying to get in. Imagine if the Steelers had a coaching vacancy? They could pick whoever they want. It kind of reminds me of how Americans are brainwashed into thinking we are the best country in the world when, quite simply, it isn’t true. Now as for the counter argument we are in a lot better shape than most franchises. We aren’t selling. Loyal fan base that sells out every game. And an owner by all accounts seems like a good guy to work for. I’d put us just a notch below all the true ‘first class” organizations.
And now that I’m thinking of it…Howie Roseman is the reason we aren’t first class. Swap him out with a guy like Ozzie Newsome and I’d bet we’d be viewed as a top tier franchise.
Yeah, apologies for the harshness. I’m still sore over Chip’s firing. He converted me. I remember being skeptical but open when he was hired; that changed quickly, though. It might sound crazy, but he actually became my favorite Eagles coach (I’m 34, so I only go back to the Buddy days).
But you’re right: if not for Howie this is all different. And that’s what’s driving me up a wall right now.
I am also 34. I loved Reid but knew it was time. LOVED the Kelly hiring and was upset at first but then all the info came out about him and I completely understood why and agreed with the move. It’s a shame really. I will be curious to see if he makes any changes the second time through. If he does that will make the Eagles look even worse even though it could have never been fixed here considering how many relationships had been fractured, not to mention Howie’s little man syndrome. But I am the optimist. I’m rooting for Pederson. I’m not going to be one of these dickheads that is rooting against him just to say “I told you so” one day.
Well, the difference is, the US actually continues to be the most powerful country in the world with the most personal freedom. It is true, however, that there are many aspects of our country that are inferior, and nationalism and propaganda lead our citizens toward ignorant notions of exceptionalism.
By contrast, in no way are the Eagles the best at anything. Maybe we have the best bloggers?
Last 15 years goes back to 2001. In that time we’ve gone to 5 NFC Championships and a Super Bowl and made the playoffs 8 times. That’s not the track record of the Patriots or Steelers obviously, but it’s not too shabby either. If you want to look at just the last 5 years, the team has obviously been so-so with only two playoff appearances since 2010, but that’s probably actually outperforming expectations considering they haven’t had a franchise QB over that time frame. The other teams in the “no franchise QB” boat (Browns, Rams, Jaguars, Titans, etc.) have tended to be horrible rather than mediocre.
welcome! I discovered this blog around this time last year when the whole power struggle happened and i lurked awhile and then started commenting around the start of training camp. IMO it is the best Eagles blog there is, due to Tommy’s thoughtful, balanced and well reasoned write-ups. My fellow commenters are like non-others on the internet. 99.9% are respectful and some are very helpful in finding information “Greg Richards” and “ACViking” are excellent for providing news updates and aspects of the rules and regulations of the league.
Thanks, man. I’ve been looking for a “thoughtful, balanced” community of fellow Eagles fans. Can’t take the talk-radio types and the traditional internet commenters. Glad I found this site.
I follow birds24/7 and the beat writers. This site does have the most balanced views posted. Those who read Murphy mostly comment on what an idiot he is(not saying I agree). I can’t fathom why they read him if that is their opinion of him. Birds 24/7 has knowledgeable posters but a lot of hate directed at Lurie/Roseman. I get being dissatisfied with them, but not the hatred. The posters who read Berman’ are the worst, no reflection on him. A lot of racist and antisemitic remarks are posted. Like you, I find the people who post here focus on football and are Eagles fans first and foremost. Very few trolls. Tommy seems take a balanced view and I think draws fans that are like minded.
For me, the richness of this site is that Tommy kicks off the discussion in an insightful way, and there are so many knowledgable guys that comment.
We even have a resident lawyer!
There seems to be a need these days for many people to act as though they know everything. And to put everything into binary terms, when there are almost always grey areas and uncertainty. It’s done for sports and has become pervasive in everything, including politics, where there are even more grey areas and uncertainty. It used to be a bad thing to act like a know-it-all, now it seems like people consider it a weakness if you’re not.
I think smart and insightful people know that they don’t know everything. And I like a place where people are smart and insightful.
Very well put. Life involves nuance; intelligent people get this. There is, though, one exception to this rule– an absolute, invariable truth: Dallas sucks.
We tend to be a bit more optimistic than warranted, but perhaps that is appropriate for fans. Here you will find many optimists with a scatter of pessimist/realists who are usually shot down 🙂 I am not sure any community is near objective. But IMO this is the best and most pleasant one.
This site is a rare island of intelligence and sanity. When the aliens land and take over, they will make Tommy King of the World and the rest of us will hope we are on his good side.
The Colts? Jim Irsay is anything but gold standard.
If you base your definitions off of the quality of the product on the field, and you find the Eagles lacking there, then why wouldn’t you fire the people in charge of that?
There are definitely several organizations who have done better, but many of the ones you list had long, long stretches of futility until they hired the right coach and personnel combination. Sometimes bad organizations get lucky with some hires and have some success, and sometimes good organizations never get over that hump.
I think the organization is somewhat tarnished right now, due to the front office issues. Time will tell if Roseman was more deserving of being fired than Kelly, or if they all should have been. But who knows, maybe there is a coach who is sympatico with Roseman and it can work.
Jim Irsay may be nutty, but he has consistently put a quality product on the field while also creating a well-respected, functional front office. He’s a loose cannon, but you can’t tell me that Bill Polian and Tony Dungy weren’t a first class tandem. Jim Caldwell, while I find him underwhelming as a head coach, is again another well-respected man. The Grigson-Pagano feud might have done some damage, but “crazy ol’ Jim” found a way to bring about peace there and move forward this coming year. And despite Irsay’s penchant for weird tweets and his own personal issues – which are none of my business – he has yet to allow the perception of himself that has been created to truly negatively affect the team. That’s a good organization if I ever saw one.
Jim Irsay had the luck (no pun intended) to stumble into drafting two of the best QB prospects in the last 30 years back-to-back. And despite that his teams have only one won Super Bowl. I hardly think you can point to him as an example of great franchise leadership.
And the success we had between 2000-2004 is the result of skill? We are equally as lucky to have had a high pick in the 1999 draft; equally lucky that the Browns picked Tim Couch. Every team benefits from some mix of chance and the skill to make the best possible use of the opportunities to arise. The Colts could have decided that Ryan Leaf had more of a ceiling. They could have done the same with RG3. But they didn’t. And because of good decision making, they have reaped the benefits of that.
Luck and Manning were the clear consensus #1 picks in their respective drafts. Both were viewed as generational-type QB prospects and the only reason there was any talk of Leaf or Griffin being taken ahead of them is that the media needs to something to write about and “yeah this guy’s great and is going to go #1” is not a very compelling story.
There has literally not been a luckier owner in the league than Jim Irsay, and despite that he has not won much more than the Eagles have and has repeatedly embarrassed himself and the league as well. I think it’s absurd to try to make a case that he’s a better owner than Lurie.
I’m not sure Grigson is all that highly respected — lots of reports of friction between him and Pagano, and it ended up with the bizarre day where both were kept. They have recently not been a great team despite having Andrew Luck to build around.
Most of their success was built around having Peyton Manning, followed by having Andrew Luck. Polian and Dungy were indeed good, but those days may be gone.
Welcome to the board.
I disagree about the Bengals. They haven’t won a playoff game since Bush 1 was in office. Or in different terms, their last playoff win was before
– Anita Hill
– Sam Kinison was still alive
– Jeffrey Dahmer was still a free man
– Freddie Mercury was still alive
– Seinfeld wasn’t on TV
– Charles Barkley was still in Philly
and…
I was just getting to high school.
Anyways, welcome to the club. I hope you got a chuckle. 🙂
Thanks for the welcome. The Bengals are a tricky one. They might not be a complete notch above us, but the argument can be made that for the past decade or so they have been slightly better. Since 2005, they have been to the playoffs 6 times (though never winning once there), and have only had 4 non-winning seasons (8-8 or worse). We, on the other hand, have been to the playoffs 5 times (with a couple wins: 2006 & 2008) and have had 5 non-winning seasons. Also, since Carson Palmer was drafted (and they became competitive) they have been drafting much better than we have. Their organization suffers from a lot stereotypes (some earned, some false), but if you really look at it, we’re closer to what the Bengals are than the Patriots, Seahawks, etc.
You might consider taking a longer view. This is football, things take time. QBs take years to develop; rosters take 5 or more years before the next cycle begins. The Steelers and Packers have built successful teams multiple times over the last 40 years.
How long of a view do you recommend the fans take? Since 1960, we have 2 Super Bowl appearances and only one stretch of being an excellent team (2000-2004). Five years of excellent football in the past 55 years is acceptable? Things don’t take longer in football. In fact, given the average length of careers, the nature of the draft & free agency, turnarounds can happen more quickly. This isn’t baseball where guys are drafted at 18 and might not be ready until they’re 22-24. And as for QBs, I disagree with the claim that they take years to develop. Don was drafted in 1999. We were in the NFC title game in 2001. If you find the right QB, you don’t need long periods of development before you contend. Granted, it’s tough to find the right one, but all the years in the world won’t make the wrong QB the right one.
I would think of the Eagles as a first class organisation based on Luries willingness to fund the facilities and personnel (on football and organisational sides) that his department execs want.
We have good facilities.
We have a large scouting organisation.
The organisation seems to actively look to support loyal staff / players. Duce and Tra coaching internships for example.
success or lack of it, on the field, is not the only measure of an organisation.
The main rebuttal against the above is the recent issues with exec power plays. Howie vs Banner, Howie vs Chip etc etc.
That along with the playing staff would be what I would assume is the issue (if there is one) for Gase, McAdoo etc. And in both cases I can see them preferring the QB situations where they ended up.
I see what you’re saying, but I just can’t embrace the “first class” thing. I am glad Lurie is willing to pour his money into the team. That’s a good thing. And we do have nice facilities. But so do most teams. And what good is a large scouting department if they go on to draft Reggie Brown, Kevin Kolb, Trevor Laws, Danny Watkins, Jaiquawn Jarrett, etc.? I like that we have Duce around. The fact that Chip even kept him speaks to Duce’s ability as a coach. But loyalty to former players can go awry (see: the Flyers). And while winning can be done the wrong way, the first class organizations of this league have managed to do all that you have mentioned and combine that with consistent winning and/or a Super Bowl title (or several).
We have actually been drafting really well for the last 5 drafts or so. In my estimation. Perfectly? God no, but who has? Far better than we did the previous 5 though. Speaking of the previous 5, that is when we were the gold standard. I do agree now that Banner and Reid are gone we are the tier down. Can Howie and Pedy (anyone else like that) bring us back to that?? Sure.
Define really well. And for 5 years?
2011: The ONLY player from that draft was Jason Kelce (6th round)
2012: Fletcher Cox is a franchise player. Kendricks is streaky but talented. Boykin was good for 2 years. Foles? Eh. But we’ll call that a good draft.
2013: I think we did hit on the first 3 rounds. Zip after that.
2014: Jordan Matthews. That’s it. And even he stunk it up this past year. I will confess to liking Huff’s potential, but taking my personal feelings out of it, Matthews is the only guy that has produced from that draft.
2015: Too early to tell, but looks like it could be an ok draft.
That doesn’t strike me as “drafting really well for the past five years or so”.
It’s solid drafting. Not overwhelmingly good but not awful either. The cupboard isn’t bare or devoid of young talent. Cox, Curry, Logan, Kendricks, Hicks… Thats a solid defensive core to build around.
Don’t forget Rowe also, who rebounded from being owned by Calvin Johnson pretty well
“Whatever it is, it certainly isn’t because of the on-field results.”
since Lurie took over in 1994 the eagles are..
1st in the division in wins a season
2nd in the nfc in wins a season
6th in the nfl in wins a season
They have made the playoffs in 12 of his 22 seasons as owner. Before that they made the playoffs 14 times in 62 years.
“Is it the shiny, modern facilities?”
Yes, that’s a part of it. It’s somehing the owner can completely control and the Eagles have one of the top facilities in the league. If a FA or coaching candidate visits Philly and a few other places, chances are Philly will have the nicest facilities.
The Eagles were a first class organization when they were regularly going up to bat at the NFC championship game and were a few bad rolls of the dice from getting a Superbowl. It was not long ago when Bellichick said you can count out most teams, but that the Eagles are not going to beat themselves with dumb moves. The Steelers, Packers, Giants, are top-shelf. Some of these others are Johnny-come-lately’s; until they turn over the roster and are still successful, it’s just luck.
I do agree that the Eagles have fallen out of that category. It started, I now feel, with Reid’s mediocre to poor drafting. He really did his best work supported by Rhoades’ frankly awesome stash of defensive players. That being said, he drafted well enough to sustain as a playoff team. At some point, the team began to shoot for the moon and rely too much on free agents, a commodity that tends to be too expensive and to underperform. Nor did the Chip/Roseman group did not result in a high quality roster. This coaching search has been embarrassing. Whatever else, the Eagles are not controlling the narrative and managing the fan experience, a capital offense in this era. After the unseemly power struggles and mediocre on-field results, even if they really wanted Pederson, there are just as many reasons to suspect them.
There is nothing this team did well last year and no reason to expect them to do anything well this year. The front office turmoil inspires no confidence. Lurie, in my eyes, has gone from a great owner to someone I can’t predict and who appears to be making questionable moves. Questionable like, Chip Kelly running stretch plays questionable (in other words, mistakes even obvious to the outside fan). So, yeah, not a first-class organization. But we can hope he rights the ship and gets it pointed back in the right direction.
With Howie Roseman as the Captain.
The Eagles haven’t been a first class/upper echelon organization the past decade.
All you do is have to look at their overall record (especially at home) and their playoff success.
Positives
– They have won the NFC East 3 times in the past 11 years (’06, ’10, ’13)
– They have been in the playoffs 5 times
– They have been averaged 10th in pts scored offensively
Negatives
– They have averaged just a little under 8.5 wins/year since ’05
– They have just 2 playoff wins
– They are 2-4 in the playoffs and haven’t won a home playoff home since ’08
– They have averaged 20th in pts allowed defensively
– They have the worst home record vs overall record in the NFL (quirky stats I’ll admit)
They have been mediocre since the ’04 SB and there is no way around that.
“Lurie would not make this move if he didn’t believe it could work.” Or he ran out of options.
I’ve been teasing all along that this is like the Jim Zorn search of the Redskins. Don’t really think that it is anything like that. It sure felt like Peady was the guy from day one.
It was Manitowoc County style investigation.
There are still coordinators in the playoffs he could have gone after. McDermott sure seemed to be angling for the job in his interview.
Lurie wouldn’t have made the move if he didn’t believe Chip Kelly would work. I’m sure that exact same statement was used with the hire of CK and will be used with the next hire as well….
The media said it so it must be true.
Considering how much emphasis Kelly put on culture, it’s a great irony that, in the end, he was the one who didn’t fit in.
I think there is something to be said for team culture, teams like the Steelers and Packers have well established cultures that transcend players and coaches. The Browns do too, I guess…
Over the last three years, the team’s identity was Mr. Kelly and his wild ride. There were good moments, but I find myself (to my surprise – as I rather liked Chip) looking forward to the Eagles being the Eagles again.
He became bigger than the team. I think it’ll be a lot better i think the pressure in SF will be a lot less. But there’s a lot more question marks on that roster.
Yeah, I think his systems can and will work, but not if he’s the only one in the building that doesn’t have to change.
I finally understood why Kelly really wanted Shady out the door when we played the Bills, and Shady basically said “I dance in the backfield. It’s who I am, and I’m not going to change.”
I think that infamous Christmas party had a lot more to do with Chip getting fired than a lot of people might think. He basically told Lurie that he had his system and it wouldn’t change. Lurie knew why Chip had gotten rid of DJax and Shady, looked at the hypocrite in front of him, and fired him.
You can’t ask those you’re leading to do something you won’t.
You can add the Giants to that list. Cowboys, too, along the Browns angle.
Culture is a generic term, and Kelly’s is frequently misunderstood. Kelly didn’t care about fitting in as much as being professionals who constantly focused on self-improvement. It clearly was not in sync this year, but it will be extremely interesting to see how he adjusts in SF. I hope the family atmosphere works out like it did under Reid (preferably a little better), but Lurie has always been an NFL outsider. Sometimes you can’t have your cake and eat it, too.
don’t think Chip really knew what he wanted tbo. He has a lot of Larry Brown in him.
Maybe. I’m glad he got hired, we’re likely to find out now.
Culture is a real thing, but it’s not easy to acquire. Chip tried to manufacture it by royal fiat, but it’s something that must be grown.
As time goes by, I know I will stop caring about whether or not the Eagles “lost” the annual NFL HC hiring contest. Seems like there are many sub-contests (that are not actual games) within the NFL year that fans watch and follow as if they can be won or lost instantly. The draft is an obvious one. The grades come out the next day, and we read headlines “NFL Draft: Who Won, Who Lost”.
You “win” the draft contest, the day after the draft, if your team picks the most players the “experts” rated highly, ie. all about the hype. You “win” the coach search contest if your team gets one of the most hyped candidates – one of the top college coaches, whatever the hype machine is saying is the top coordinator, or Gruden. After all of these years, your team would win the coach search contest of the decade if got Gruden.
So I as an Eagle fan, will completely, without debate announce to all other teams’ fans who care, the Eagles lost this years coach search contest. They did not even try to compete. Everything you can say about Pederson makes him a total “loss” – did not call plays, no one knows what he really did, no other team interviewed him, zero experts were hyping him, ever.
But now i can move on from this “loss” as we do with any loss, or when don’t make the playoffs. the loss becomes accepted as reality and I move on. In reality, of course, we wont really know who “wins” the 2016 offseason coach contest for another two or three years etc.. and Pederson right now has as much a shot as any more hyped candidate has for bring judged a successful coach in three or more years.
But damn, i do want to win the defensive coordinator contest.
Schwartz would be a good pick as DC but with a young HC I’d probably prefer they get someone who won’t be straight out the door if the defence turns around this year. Pettine needs a few years to rehabilitate post Cleveland so would probably be the best bet.
Now, to decide if I’m sold on Childress coming back…..
I’m down with Childress. Anyone that won’t repeat the Mornhinweg era of completely agreeing with the coach that we should go long on every 3rd and short.
Or short on every 3rd and long.
Thank Captain Check down for some of it with Kelly.
Captains Checkdown. All three QB’s seemed to be doing it the last 2 years…
I get your point, but Schwartz wasn’t hired as a HC in any of the last coaching cycles for a reason.
Not sure Schwartz is out of the door in 1 year
he looks like a weenie
I’m expecting the Pederson era to be conservative and boring. I doubt we’re going to pull in big name FAs since Pederson is a relatively new coach so turning the roster over will take some time. Most likely we’re going to be building through the draft and perhaps slowly improve over time.
One thing I do wonder about is how Pederson will handle knuckleheads. He has been with Andy for quite some time and maybe some of it rubbed off on Pederson (or maybe not).
why do you think he will be conservative?
FAs follow the money. That is all
Good. FA sucks in football.
If Childress is so great, why doesn’t Andy Reid make him OC?
Is this an endorsement of Pederson?
No, my point is that both the Eagles and KC now need an offensive coordinator. One would think Andy Reid and KC would have first dibs on Childress, right? So, why are the Eagles ending up with him?
Childress is the Chiefs’ “Spread Game Coodinator” — a position that sounds like Reid created it for a friend.
On deck as the next Chiefs’ offensive coordinator is their quarterbacks coach, Mike Nagy — University of Delaware quarterback, coaching intern with the Eagles when Reid was still the coach, and an offensive quality control assistant before Kelly’s hiring.
So it seems as though, if Pederson wants Childress, he can bring him along.
Who says he won’t?
Childress was 1 bad Favre pass (and then some highly questionable officiating calls in OT) away from taking his own team to the SB. The Vikings improved by 2 wins every season (6-10, 8-8, 10-6, 12-4) until it fell apart in 2010. I have no problem with Brad Childress.
That Favre pass was a direct result of bad officiating all game long.
And 3 missed personal fouls that Saints players put on Favre.
that was bevell i think
You don’t want any coach that is bad enough to be available?
I’m hoping that Pat is OC. That seems like the best chance to salvage something from the last 3 years. He’s WCO based but seems adaptable enough to craft some of Chip’s concepts that work into the system.
Each of the other candidates have flaws, but they also had obvious strengths. Pederson has ???????? as his strength.
I don’t like this hire at all. I don’t like that Roseman is still involved. And I don’t the direction of the franchise, at all. Gold standard my butt.
Relating to players is his strength. How is that so hard to see? Not saying he will be a good or great coach, but that’s the answer.
Louis Riddick, who is well known to be no fan of the Eagles’ FO, said Pederson is a first-rate football mind with a wide knowledge of systems and strategy and will make a good HC. Just because Pederson is not as well known and doesn’t get hype from the Adam Shefters of the world does not mean he doesn’t have real strengths.
“Some people talk about him running the Wide-9. That’s not the case. Schwartz runs the 4-3 defense. They use the Wide-9 front at times, but there is much more to his scheme than just that.”
Can Tommy and D3 talk and get to a conclusion about this. Does Schwartz run too much wide 9 or not?
I think too much depends on your thoughts in the wide 9. Schwartz seems much clever with his use of it compared to Castillo (or Washburn). Every 4-3 coach uses the wide 9 in certain situations, Schwartz just uses it more
Schwartz uses it just as much as any other 4-3 coach would use it for passing downs.
He runs a multiple front 4-3 defense. He uses the wide nine in obvious passing downs not every play and not so much where it’s his predominant formation.
That is reassuring.
Yea sir it is brother, one of the main reasons I hope the Eagles land him or Pettine because Pettine is very good at working with what talent is given to him and will dictate the kind of defense he runs off of the personnel. Something Mr Davis couldn’t do.
Cox = motivated Haynesworth long term…………….
Yes please.
Read this:
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/1/15/10773888/chip-kelly-eagles-head-coach-fraud-49ers-san-francisco-philadelphia-oregon
Typical fan “writer”, overreacting in both directions and confusing hindsight with foresight.
Newsflash: The “professional” writers aren’t any better. At least this is humorous.
If by “professional” you mean Reuben Frank…………………………I agree.
I wonder if that will be my perspective in a few weeks/months. I’m still firmly on the Chip bandwagon, though. I truly believe in him as a coach. I gotta say, I didn’t see the move for GM as an ego move on Chip’s part. I think it was a response to Tom Gamble being fired and his (apparently justified) distrust of Howie. And as for the playcalling this year, yeah it took a step back. I’ve been rewatching the 2013 games and all the crazy formations and execution of the uptempo game plan still give me goosebumps. That went away this year. Maybe I’m just trying too hard to defend Chip, but it’s possible that he knew Howie was trying to get him fired all season and that pressure to win kept him looking over his shoulder and he distanced himself from aggressive/risky playcalling. Who knows.
Tom Gamble was a complete piece of garbage who went running to the press with a constant stream of anti-everybody but Chip info. Good riddance.
And F his collaborator father as well.
WAY too harsh.
That is all bullshit. Chip made the power play and got what he wanted then that preceded to blow up in his face. As for Chip the so called genius coach, that went out tbe window this year. His coaching skills were amateur high school style and just down right terrible play calling and game management. His stubbornness and ego were too big and blinded him in seeing that nothing he was doing was working. There is also the fact that besides the niners nobody reached out yup him for their head coaching vacancies, hell he even had to have his agent reach out to niners initially. To hell with Chip Kelly and Tom Gamble, may they both rot in football hell wroth the niners.
Wild and good.
I watched some of the Giants’ intro press conference for Ben McAdoo.
http://m.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Watch-Coach-Ben-McAdoos-introductory-press-conference/7e158131-3612-4532-90fe-576588f8a015
Putting aside his public persona, which may best be described as painful …
McAdoo told the media that general manager Jerry Reese had total control over personnel. And it is McAdoo’s job to help in any way possible. Nothing more.
That arrangement sounds like what Lurie may want here with Pederson.
Also, it suggests Coughlin had more of a hand in the Giants personnel decisions than has been publicly acknowledged. And another hurdle for the Eagles hiring him.
The final say on drafting, signing players, and handing out contracts should be completely left to the front office in my opinion. The only thing that the coach should have control over is who gets to stay on the 53 man roster come September.
McAdoo, from what he said, does not have final roster authority.
What power a coach has is not written in stone, apparently.
That’s true. Sometimes you can’t cut a player because he has a lot of dead money on his contract. Or a coach might want to cut a player who was recently a high draft pick.
I’m not sure the Eagles were really going for Coughlin hard. It just doesn’t seem like an Eagles kind of move.
Coughlin having more of a hand than is publicly acknowledged sounds kind of like Reid here. Reminds me of the Danny Watkins/Jaiquan Jarrett or however you spell his name fiasco.
I’m not fully sold, or better put, I could’ve been sold Shurmur just as easily. John Harbaugh was a good ST coach, and is a Superbowl winning HC, was his resume that much better than Doug’s? I don’t have a problem with the AR coaching tree or Big Red as long as we stay away from the known virus currently infecting John’s Ravens – Martyvinum Morninwegitis. It can cripple performance while hiding as part of the soltion.
Sooooooo, they should have just promoted Fipp?
What ref would refuse his challenge? What player wouldn’t come under the spell of his stare and blindly follow his command?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBUr4iICcAA68If.jpg
http://bloggingthebeast.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Fipp-ROYGBIV.gif
Revisionist history:
I love how some media guys (although no one local I have seen yet that I have seen) claim now that Pederson was a top candidate from the beginning.
I don’t remember seeing Greg Richards (real credit) posting a single reporter or source who 2 weeks ago claimed Pederson was one of the top candidates for the Eagles.
The media didn’t have access to the same information 2 weeks ago about the process that they now have and were, like the rest of us, speculating. The new information came from Ron Jaworski.
Adam Schefter tweeted on January 3 “Chiefs OC Doug Pederson expected to be a leading candidate for Philadelphia HC job, per sources.”
https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/683633708285452289
It was reported on Birds 24/7 on January 3:
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2016/01/03/report-chiefs-doug-pederson-a-leading-candidate/
Give Schefter credit then. Nice pull.
Schefter and Glazer are the only two guys i trust
I thought Domowitch mentioned him…then Gunn said no and somebody else confirmed Domowitch ‘s report. But then there were more reporting Eagles interest in interviewing him. Then some sort of touted Pederson.
Yeah I remember that and it was really late last week and last weekend that the Pederson talk started in earnest.
Adam Schefter said he was a leading candidate the day after the season ended.
I want feedback on a theoretical front-office structure. As I’ve said, I think Howie should be fired despite his strengths, but let’s forget that debate for a second.
HC – Pederson -Has heavy input on final 53/draft but does not make final decisions.
Exec VP of Player Personnel – Since they apparently don’t want to give anyone the true GM title. Has final say on draft/FA decisions, evaluation of players and how they mesh with the Eagles’ chosen scheme(with hopefully more flexibility than it was under Chip) with the limitations I’ll describe below. Has to be a person that respects and meshes well with Roseman and will accept his input. Has to be a person that values analytics.
Exec VP of Football Operations – Roseman – His job will essentially be what it was the past year with additional authority and input. He will be in charge of both the long-term and short-term cap management. While he will not be able to dictate what free agents the Eagles sign, he will essentially set the budget for acquisitions in a current year and down the road and be able to veto signings if they don’t fit into that framework. While this could potentially lead to friction, it will also serve as a check against short-sighted decisions that don’t balance the current year with the future. It will also be his job to provide input on player valuation(versus evaluation), how a player is viewed around the league, what round he is projected to go in, etcetera. Certain current front-office execs, particularly Chris Shea, could be part of a team working on this aspect. Roseman and Shea share similar backgrounds. Since it is a strength of his, Roseman could take the lead on trade negotiations with the Exec VP of Player Personnel’s approval. Final authority on trade decisions would rest with the Exec VP of Player Personnel. Roseman would also be responsible for having a ready list of front office executives and coaching candidates. This is a management function regardless of your level of approval in your current coach/personnel director. Just like you have a ready pro personnel list, you have a ready non-player personnel list. I think this fits into the “NFL strategic matters” category that Lurie said Roseman was responsible for last year. Despite that(and arguably in conflict with it), Lurie should make it privately known to Roseman that his future hinges on the success of the HC/Exec VP of Player Personnel. As in I’m not going to fire one of them without firing you too. There is some downside to this and it could lead Roseman to being complicit in making splashy FA signings to try to save his job. However, it could also help chemistry as everyone needs to rely on each other and any political games won’t help anyone.
It can be argued that one person should be a total control GM and fulfill both this theoretical Exec VP of Player Personnel role and Roseman’s assigned role. I think Lurie is leery of giving any one person too much power and wants the organization to have checks/balances. If you’re going to keep Howie, this is a way to allow him to focus on what he does best at and also give more authority to the non-true GM personnel director role and thus hopefully attract quality candidates.
Nice outlay. I would tend to think Pederson will have less input than that and quite possibly not even say on the final 53-man roster coming out of training camp. Something he’ll likely have to earn through success on the field for 2-3 consecutive years.
Ditto the Exec of VP Player Personnel having final say on FAs/draft choices. Stunned if Roseman won back the power in the organization only to give away such a key aspect of it so readily again. This individual though will have more sway and importance than Pederson.
You say it’s theoretical but then you say I think Lurie is leery of giving any one person too much power and wants the organization to have checks/balances.
Are you asking what people want or what they think it is or will be?
My understanding is Howie has final say.
Lurie has not gone into detail. He just said Howie would have a role in personnel. Donahoe is running the day-to-day operations of the personnel department for now. Lurie did not say this, but several media members have said that this is essentially an interim role for him and they will at some point hire a new personnel director. He could end up being an underling for Howie with Howie the GM in practice if not in title. It could be a different set-up though and I’m just throwing out an idea.
I would like to see Roseman held accountable therefore he needs final say however an offensive head coach needs power to find his QB. Not saying that will happen though. It pains me to agree with McLane.
From Mc Lane article, source expects this new “director” to report to Roseman, I’m just tossing that out but it’s probably just an assumption by source:
Lurie said that Tom Donahoe would run the day-to-day player personnel department, but that will be only on an interim basis. The Eagles have begun their search for a second-in-command to Roseman, an NFL source said.
Director has to report to Lurie if Roseman doesn’t have final say.
http://articles.philly.com/2016-01-04/sports/69488919_1_jeffrey-lurie-howie-roseman-fletcher-cox
Yes, I understand McLane reported this and it could turn out to be the case, but Lurie himself hasn’t defined what Roseman’s exact role would be. At least publicly. I don’t think Roseman has to have final say on player personnel decisions to be held accountable. Give him full discretion to hire a player personnel director that he trusts enough for that guy to have the say so in player personnel decisions. If that guy fails, fire him and fire Howie for picking the wrong guy.
Howie Roseman is the GM of the Philadelphia Eagles
Roseman has consistently gotten excellent value in trades and shown himself adept at working the draft board, and the contracts he has negotiated have brought in top free agents without hamstringing the team long-term – even failures like Nnamdi were relatively painless to cut loose. That’s the guy I want working the phone lines and negotiating with free agents and other teams. Somebody with a more traditional scouting background should have more info on player evaluation, and the coach gets to specify what sort of players he wants at each position.
For some reason people get hung up on being a “football guy”. As if never getting passed Nerf All Pro has stopped them from being expert GMs.
Matt Millen is a quintessential “football guy” and was one of the worst GMs in NFL history. Ron Wolf did not have a traditional background and was one of the best.
Cross-sports comparisons, but looking at recent Philly sports history, the Phillies/Sixers/Flyers had quintessential baseball/basketball/hockey guys running their shows in Ruben Amaro, Doug Collins, and Paul Holmgren, and all three made stultifyingly awful decisions that set their franchises back years. Their replacements either lack traditional backgrounds or in the case of Hextall have such a background but do take an analytical, value-oriented approach, and all have done a better job than their predecessors despite having big messes to clean up when they arrived.
The idea that you need a “football guy” to be the GM is one of the dumbest in Eagles’ fandom IMO.
We just had a football guy in charge. It was a disaster.
Right on.
He gets excellent value in draft trades, and manages to screw up that value.
We know from Lurie himself that he only gained control over the draft in 2012. He definitively lost control after the 2014 draft. The only inarguably bad pick in that interval was Marcus Smith, and there is plenty to suggest that was more Chip’s doing (high character, measureables guy, etc.) than Roseman’s. The charge that Howie is a shitty drafter just isn’t backed up by the evidence.
is there any other evidence other than Lurie saying Roseman wasn’t responsible for the 2010- 2011 drafts. Howie was the GM correct? so how does he bear no responsibility for those drafts? I know it gets pushed off that Reid was running the draft, but why did Roseman have the title of GM then?
The truth is we have no idea whether Roseman drafts well or not. Even if he was responsible for 2010-14, that’s not a big enough sample size to be predictive, and we do not know what he actually did with regard to those drafts. It’s build-your-own narrative for our shitty media.
Why is any other evidence needed?
because people lie, especially an owner trying to save face after hiring a GM who went on a spending spree for the dream team and was coming off of a couple mediocre drafts
It’s hard to know Lurie’s plans for Howie. Is he someone that he views as expendable, or does he believe Howie is more than simply professionally committed to his (Lurie’s) goal of a Lombardi Trophy at NCC? Lurie has hinted more than a few times that Roseman has his complete trust. If Lurie keeps a get-out-of-jail card for Howie in his vault, then I think it is the owner’s responsibility to spell out an autonomous role for a flourishing personnel department that may fall under HR’s purview. Lurie’s trust ought to be a big enough carrot for HR to go out and hire competent people who don’t necessarily kiss up to him or particularly care for his input.
Love to see Schwartz here, move to a 4-3, and hopefully have this defense return to more of an average unit next year.
This defense was historically bad this year since the bye and that simply wasn’t due to just the increased snap count and TOP. It hurt along with some injuries but it got back to the point again (like it has every season since ’10) where this offense needed to score 27-28 pts every week late in the year to have a decent chance to win. Asking an awful lot of any offensive scheme to do that week in and week out.
Casual fans harp on the Eagles’ defense hasn’t been the same since JJ died but the numbers across the board bare that out. Eagles’ offense since then has generally been good/very good but it is the defense that has been the anchor that drags down the team overall.
Their personnel fits an attacking 4-3 quite well. Curry-Logan-Cox-Graham is a good front 4, with the only guys currently on the roster who don’t fit being bottom-of-the-roster filler that Chip brought in like Hart and Bair. Alonso-Hicks-Kendricks could be an excellent LB corps. Barwin isn’t a great fit but could probably play SLB and should have trade value to a 3-4 team in any case.
Speaking of trade value, it’s too bad Chip didn’t get personnel power in SF because he probably would’ve given us multiple first rounders for a package of Hart, Josh Huff, and Riley Cooper.
Cooper had a decent season in 2013. The only reason why he hasn’t been cut the last two years has been because of the dead money left on his deal.
I think we’d also fit an aggressive 1-gap 3-4, like what Wade Phillips runs. I’d love to see a hybrid with multiple looks. We have the people for it, but let’s get someone running it who can inspire these players to attack.
Note that I’ve always love the 4-3 (for obvious reasons) but have really come around to the 3-4. It can be a lot more confusing for passers. And I do believe what Chip was selling when he says it brings a lot more big fast guys into your special teams pool. I think it’s a big reason why our teams were so good.
Vermiel used it. Nothing new.
Another fluff piece shaming Kelly and promoting ownership. meh.
link?
Did you even read this? Or just comment first?
another fluff comment based on a lack of reading comprehension. Double meh.
Cutting Ryans, Cooper, Celek and Sanchez will save the Eagles about $16.5 million in cap space. Trading Murray would save the Eagles an additional $4 million
No one’s trading for Murray. Who’s going to take on a contract like that after a year like he had?
I’m actually interested to see what kind of year he can have in a system where he’s used intelligently.
He didn’t give us much to be excited about this year, but you can’t find a single person who would claim that we even came close to putting Murray in a position to succed. no one would say we even came close to maximizing his talent and ability, He didn’t have the explosion Ryan showed, but I’m not sure Murray was ever as explosive as Ryan. I saw a RB who was hurdling over defenders, was extremely efficient converting in Short yardage and a RB who made some things happen when he had decent blocking in front of him,..
.
Murray was used so poorly here that I have to kind of be excited to see what he can really do for us under a coach who is GUARENTEED to use him drastically better than chip ever did
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But you are right, no one is trading for that contract, especially at the RB position so we really have no choice but to hope Murray ends up making Chip kelly look really bad, bouncing back,to have a big year for us..
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At the very least we should see a very Hungry Murray who was Embarressed this year under chip, so im surprisingly cautiously optimistic about seeing what he will look like. Especially since we really have no choice. He is stuck here at least 1 more,yeàr
Wow, if those numbers are even close to accurate, .cutting those 4 players almost pays for Bradfords extension.
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However there is some value in having respected veterans Mufasa and Celek to help transition to this new regime that will come with massive changes across the board, everything from scheme, terminology, Practice structure. What days off our Playes get. Personalities of our new coaches, there are a ton of changes that are about to hit Novacare, not the worst thing to have respected,Veterans help in this transition… But if Celek and Mufasa have any desire to finish their career in philly, it will require significant pay cuts. No idea if they would be open to it or if they want to change teams looking for one last money grab before they retire.
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I don’t care much about Cap space any more, all I care about is keeping our talent in Philly. I pray that HOWIE has learned that the only way to real success is to build tnru the draft, And start hitting on draft picks in a big way… The most important thing we have to hope HOWIE learned is that he can’t cover draft mistakes by throwing money at other teams free agents.
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I like that we are in position to where we can be competitive while rebuilding some of the roster. I don’t think we need to cut 10 veterans this offseason and go with this dramatic rebuild. We are in position to where we should be trying to get young talent in place before we get rid of these veterans and I think we can gradually rebuild over the next two years, for example, if we want to cut Byron Maxwells contract next year when we can get out of it without taking a massive pay cut, we should be trying to get his young replacement via this next draft. if you want to cut Peters next year, a well run franchise would try to get his eventual replacement via the draft THIS YEAR… So Instead of just cutting all our veterans this offseason, Id prefer trying to rebuild gradually over the next two years, trying to make sure we already have a young player ready to step in when we want to get rid of starting veterans… But that can ONLY happen by hitting on our draft picks..
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So while I expect to see Murray, Maxwell, Peters on next years team, I hope we draft their replacements now. Instead of creating more holes by cutting more starters and then worry about replacing them…. I think we have to get rid of Cooper, Mufasa, Celek, Peters, Sanchez, Maxwell, Murray, Sproles, but instead of cutting all these players now, cut a few of them now, Copper, Sanchez, Mufasa, And then after next year, we can cut Murray, Maxwell, Celek, Sproles, and then the following year we can cut Peters, Ryan Mathews, malcolm Jenkins and we will have hopefully gradually gotten younger across the board and transitioned to the next era of eagle playërs..
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But if we keep Bradford, along with our young Lt Lane, Center Kelce, two young Wrs, young TE Ertz, we have enough of the IMPORTANT core position taken care of which should allow us to compete for the division title, while Gradually transitioning away from all the veterans from previous regimes…on Defense, we have key building blocks in Cox who we can build a quality DL around, Hicks to anchor our LB corp, a young Corner in ROWE, and safety in jenkins…. So instead of blowing it up, embarking on an immediate and drastic rebuild, taking two steps back in hopes to then take 5 steps forward later, if we retain Bradford, we can put ourselves in position to compete for the division the next 3 years, while gradually rebuilding and transitioning away from older players of the previous regime… But the only way to successfully pull this off, is to have 2 or three high quality drafts in a row, while only using our cap space to retain our own talent. If you can find 1 quality can’t miss upgrade in free agency each year, I will consider that a bonus. But I’m not even interested in seeing us sigń 4, 5, 6 new free agents each yeàr. More often than not its fools gold
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Pay our OWN players, build continuity,if you want to upgrade a position, do our damn job and draft the right kids
on 3-4 vs 4-3 i think either work with the right players and coaches. I think there was a period in the 90’s and 00’s where i preferred the 3-4 because less teams used it meaning less competition for OLB’s and big DE’s. These days i think there is no real difference in talent levels available for either role.
Only reason why i want a 4-3 and especially Schwartz is he has a track record of getting 3 techs matched 1v1 and letting them take over games… which i is the best way to utilize the best player on our defense in Cox.
I don’t like a pure 3-4 or a pure 4-3 best. I prefer to have 1 or 2 linemen 2-gapping
http://mmqb.si.com/nfl-coach-hirings-doug-pederson-ben-mcadoo-chip-kelly-hue-jackson-dirk-koetter-adam-gase
Andrew Brandt on Pederson and other coach hires
“Chip Kelly’s disdainful treatment of Lurie confidante and VP Howie Roseman.”
I don’t remember Brandt ever saying a bad word about the Eagles management. Local media would have that sentence reversed…Howie Roseman’s disdainful treatment of Chip Kelly.
I think Brandt likely has it right. He likes Chip, by the way, if that matters.
I found it interesting that Pederson was, back when Brandt was with the Packers, essentially Favre’s wingman on and off the field.
The media has picked Roseman as the whipping boy for everything that’s gone wrong lately.
Someone must be scapegoated. It’s like a Philly sports rule.
The fans, too. The only thing about that is that Roseman learned from Banner that being the bad guy no one likes is part of the job description.
I like seeing that comment from Brandt and agree that local media would spin it the other way. I commented on this a few days ago – when Chip Kelly basically said that he knew better than every scout in the organization and every person who participated in building their draft board, including himself and his own people, and said that he wanted to draft Taylor Hart in the 3rd round, the local writers never commented on how disrespectful that was to the entire organization that collaborated to build their draft board or what effect it would have on the scouts and the rest of the personnel department hearing that their work had no value, etc. Stories like that were always treated like “that’s Chip”.
Eagles “pick” Pederson seems like a stretch…. Eagles Settle on Pederson, of Andy Reid picks the Eagles new coach is probably a more appropriate headline… for all we know, Pederson is an opportunity away from being the next Great coach, but it’s hard to respect the path we took to reach this decision.. I know people will poïnt to Jaws raving about how Through we were. But Lurie and Roseman brought Jaws into the search party, most likely paid him for his opinion, no matter what his real opinipn is, It unlikely that he would come out publically and say something like “the Eagles are clueless, their process was all screwed up”… If a source would NEVER rip us, I don’t give a shit about hearing their praise..
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I always thought we were lucky to have a solid owner. He may have held on to andy a year or two too long, but for the most part I always thought Lurie was a solid owner… Since firing Chip, this process Is the first time I have really been down on our Owner. Hopefully reality is very different then the perception I have of this process.. I understand LURIE thinks the world of Andy, since he had a big part in turning the Eagles into a billion dollar Franchise, but something stinks about the coach of KC basically chosing the next coach of the Eagles..
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What rubs me the wrong way is that if Doug Pederson were the OC for any of the other 30 franchise, he probably wouldn’t have even gotten an interview let alone get to coach the Eagles,,,personally I would like to think we would hire a fantastic leader and a brilliant football leader, who would be viewed as such no matter what franchise he worked for..
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I don’t hate going with some Familiarity, but we took this overboard. Not only did we settle on familiarity without even looking around to see if we could find better (immediately reinstating Howie), but it’s too much familiarity, not enough fresh set of eyes for my liking. our Past Wasnt So Amazing that we should recycle our entire staff and not bring in any fresh opinions… It’s going to end up being Recycled howie, Recycled Pederson, Recycled DUCE, Recycled Childress, and possibly even recycled Shurmur… I don’t mind going with past Eagles, but I would have prefered a better blend of recycled and fresh outsider opinions
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Fortunately for me, the processmdoesnt Neccessarily reflect the results. humans have new experiences every day, and we grow from these experiences so hopefully all our recycled employees learned a lot since their most recent failures and are now ready to come into their own and do some big things..all this shit outsiders talk anoit HOWIE, I would love to see him learn from his failures and do a fantastic job for us this time around and really stick it to all his annonymous pussy haters.. I don’t care to defend HOWIE, but all these NFL executives who run their mouth should at least have the balls, and show enough manhood to attack their name to the HOWIE hate..
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Hopefully Doug Pederson sticks IT to espn who rank him as the worst Hire and goes on to be the next andy and lead us to a new golden Age of Eagles football…but from everything I gathered, it’s hard to be thrilled with how LuriE has executed his post chip plan up to this point, hopefully I missing a Giant piece of the puzzle and our reality ismt as Dissapointing as the perception.
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But hey, keep Bradford in Philly would pump some excitement and adrenaline back in my fandom.,. But if im being honest, as a 33yr old man, this is one of the times I feel most beaten down in my history of Eagle fandom. And it’s not all about HOWIE, Lurie and Pederson, it’s just the cumulative effect from last years emotional offseason when Chip came into power, the miserable and Taxing season, then Lurie does something we never imagined he would do. Fired chip a week early, a year sooner than expected and it pumped excitement and hope Nack into the FANBASE, then Lurie spoke the following day and it’s been down hill since….
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The media can be very wrong at times, hopefully, reality is very different than the Embarressing picture the media painted about no one wanting this job, an Owner Panicked and let the coach of the Cheifs pick the next of the Eagles.. hopefully reality is very differemt then the unflattering perception.
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Hopefully they can deliver a very strong Coaching staff, keep SAM in place and give us something to be excited about… I don’t think we are doomed because of Doug P like some Eagle fans and media seem to think, but I do feel really beaten down by the last 365 days of loving this team.. hopefully Andy, Lurie and HOWIE end up looking brilliant when Doug P goes on to prove to be the best coach hired this offseason, like Bruce Arians was able to do
What rubs me the wrong way is that if Doug Pederson were the OC for any of the other 30 franchise, he probably wouldn’t have even gotten an interview let alone get to coach the Eagles
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Ravens HC John Harbaugh was a D-backs coach and former Special Teams coordinator for the Eagles.
Never called an offensive play. Or a defensive play.
And Not a single NFL team — not one — interviewed him for a HC job except the Ravens.
Ozzie Newsome and Steve Bisciotti did their homework. And the hiring worked out fine.
But, AC, just like with countless other teams in the league, you go with the familiar and the known. Coaching in the NFL is all about connections. I have no problem with the process or the hire. Furthermore, if Jaws was in on it, I’m good. Let’s see how it plays out.
RJ —
Agree, absolutely.
Coaching staffs, in football or baseball or B-ball, are so much about — as you wrote — “the familiar and the known.”
And I like your point about Jaworski being part of the process.
No one’s gonna buy his opinion. He doesn’t need the money. And, I’m sure, he values his integrity too much to be a mouthpiece for Jeff Lurie.
I like that Jaws was involved. I think it’s Neccessary to have some pure football people evaluating candidates.. HOWIE has Zero successful Experience hiring a coach and Smolenski is just a business man.. I don’t care about Jaws Specifically, but I do view it as a good thing that they made sure to get,the,opinion of a pure “Football guy”
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Ultimately we went with our version of Jason Garrett/Kubiak for our new HC. unfortunately know one has any idea if Pederson is ready to grow into the next Andy/Harbaugh type of respected quality pro HC, or if he proves to be a mistake and we are back to looking for another coach in two years… Nothing to do but give the man a fair shot and hope that our decision makers in this case happened to be smarter than everyone else
Right on, Gian Geagle! Unless I have a rapt audience at a cocktail party, I normally don’t go the long route, like you, to make my points, but I appreciate your comprehensiveness. I mean, I really do. What a horrible year it was to be an Eagle fan. I’ve been at this thing since the mid 50s and, even with the fallow times of the past, at least one could have one’s low expectations met without weeping, wailing, and tooth-gnashing.
Au contraire, last January was close to orgasmic with Kelly wresting control from evil Howie and then making sweeping changes in personnel that I felt somewhat squeamish about, but trusted the the Chippah knew what he was doing. After every all, I was just a guy.
The very first game when the Eagles forgot how to play football until it was too late sent shockwaves through my system. And then the rest of the season felt like taser zaps until Kelly was fired. While I don’t agree with all the vitriol being spewed in the last three weeks, I certainly understand it.
By nature, I’m an optimist. Hopefully, both the doubters and people like me can have some of our faith restored.
Lol very well saidk and thank you kind sir… We have had some really tough years as Eagle fans, but I try to be optimistic and give people a fair chance before going with the Default negativity of most philly fans, but from last January when chip wrestled power from HOWIE and went all “Bronx Tale” on HOWIE and “Put Him in the Bathroom” til now, it’s been exhausting. for being a fan of a team that never won anything, typically im able to keep some optimism, but after this year I just feel beaten down by it all..
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Now Change is upon us, hopefully it proves to be for the better. While it’s hard to find people who have much positive to say about the Eagles these days, I can at least cling on to hope because No one knows anything. Everyone with an opinion about the coaches hired is full of shit. Adam Gase is the sexy Candidate, while Doug Pederson has been ranked by Espn as the worst coaching hire, but the people judging these hires are clueless. for all we know the great Adam Gase could end up making a bigger mess than Chip Kelly made, and 3 years from now we could be talking about the Pederson hire as the next Great Bruve Arians type of coaching hire…. The picture the media has painted about the Eagles is pretty ugly, uninspiring, but it’s important to remember that the people with these “opinions” really havent gotten the slightest idea about how great or how Terribke of a coach Pederson will be… So I try to remain open minded about Doug and give him a fair chance, but I feel pretty beaten down as an eagle fan, and I will be especially antsy and nervous waiting to find out if we are crazy enough to let Braford get away.. The Front office hiring a candidate no one even cared enough to interview puts us in position to where we literally have to hope that in this case, they are actually smarter then everyone else who looked for a coach and didmt think enough of Pederson to even consider him..
Jason Wolf @JasonWolf 22m22 minutes ago
#Titans interim coach Mike Mularkey, long considered front-runner for permanent job, setting up his coaching staff
Ray Horton interviewed for Titans HC job today.Horton is being pursued to become the Browns’ defensive coordinator. Fritz Pollard Alliance Foundation chairman John Wooten said Horton was overshadowed by Titans assistant head coach/defense Dick LeBeau and that he has asked the team to let him out of his contract to join Hue Jackson’s staff in Cleveland.
Mularkey will be retained. Schwartz is rumored to want to return to Tennessee where he lives per espn article but I don’t know how his ego would take LeBeau overshadowing him though LeBeau is 78 and do they even mesh together?
http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/nfl/titans/2016/01/16/mike-mularkey-setting-up-titans-coaching-staff/78897068/
Hopefully that leads Schwartz to pick the Eagles.
It occurred to me he might see this is an avenue to weasel into the head coaching job though. Reports Mularkey may get short term contract.
The reason, I think, Mularkey — or anyone whom TN would have hired as HC — will have a short-term contract (and inexpensive compared to, say, Belichick, Reid, Harbaugh) is the uncertainty surrounding the Titans’ ownership structure.
No single member of the ownership group — there are five (5), kids and grand-kids of the late Bud Adams — owns a controlling interest of 50.1% . . . as required by the NFL’s bylaws.
A short, inexpensive contract with a HC who probably wouldn’t be hired by another team make the franchise more attractive — price-wise — to a prospective purchaser . . . if the NFL somehow forced a sale or a portion of the current group sold a majority stake.
Also, a reason why Schwartz or other assistant candidates might decide to go elsewhere. With Mularkey, there’s a good chance they’d be looking for another job in a year.
Very plausible
I would prefer Titans scooping up Schwartz and “Corn-row” Hornton named DC of the Eagles, but Even if Horton is available, the Eagles probably wouldn’t even consider him..
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No ide who is even considered for this DCS job
Well I was reading Horton wasn’t too happy with LeBeau having so much say in his defense so he’s asked to be let go of his contract so he can go back to Cleveland to join Hue Jackson’s staff.
The fact that the Titans felt the need to bring in LeBeau, essentially demoting Horton, should cause pause.
I don’t think they felt the NEED to do anythng. If you are lucky enough to be able to add the experience of dick Labeu in a supporting role, be,foolish to not take advantage of it even if you have the greatest defensive Coordinato that ever lived….. Jim Johnson is my flavor ite DC of all time, I would have welcomed Labeau to his staff any time he wanted
Prior to 2014, when Ken Whisenhunt replaced Mike Munchak as the Titans head coach, TN had been playing a 4-3 defense.
In fact TN had played a 4-3 for 23 straight seasons going all the way back to 1990 (when Jack Pardee replaced Jerry Glanville as HC — followed by Jeff Fisher).
When Whisenhunt was hired in 2014, he came from AZ — which played an aggressive 3-4 scheme — and brought Ray Horton with him to install the 3-4.
One problem for the Titans defense — as in Philadelphia — may have been that Tennessee was full of 4-3 personnel. And still is.
Now Mike Mularkey’s lost the interim tag and will be HC, apparently.
In Mularkey’s three prior seasons as a HC (two w/ Buff, one w/ JAX), his defense of choice was a 4-3 scheme.
What I’m driving at is this.
I suspect TN still has a roster tilted toward 4-3 talent.
Mularkey’s been a 4-3 coach.
So maybe, with Schwartz available and his home in TN, he’ll wanna return to the Titans to coach the defense.
Horton’ll move on to Cleveland to coach a 3-4 defense.
And Dick LeBeau will, well, move full-time to the lecture circuit.
Bill Davis seems like he is done in Philly and it looks like Chip is going to hire Eric Mangini to head the defense. Actions speak louder than words…
Good stuff from Caplan.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/1/16/10779858/nfl-insider-philadelphia-eagles-sports-science-doug-pederson-chip-kelly-offense-west-coast
I think he is going to grow on a lot of people.
Well, you can’t really go the other way when you’re starting from the absolute bottom.
The pass-run ratio should be heavier to pass than most teams. Let’s put it that way
Noooo!
That was the first thing I notices too. I get it, passing league and all, but damn, straight up falling into the exact same trap that Andy Reid used to. Drove the entirety of Eaglesnation crazy.
Nothing wrong with passing more than running. Just have enough moderation so that you don’t pass it 75% of the time.
Yeah I get that, but on that front he is gonna be on a really short leash with the fans. I get that its his mistake to make and I get that most likely a succesfull team will pass more, but this wont be the first time the fans saw that mistake, if it turns into a mistake. We’ll start at some point up the scale, not zero, because we witnessed it from Andy and now we hired basically a worse version of Andy.
When Chip came, we were all totally onboard with his offensive scheme, we we’re completely ready to go to some kind of 4-3under defense with weird mutations and we were willing to accept culture and smoothies and what not.
We’re gonna accept a lot of things from Pederson, but making the mistake that essentially got Andy kicked out will not be one of those things.
Passing is best when the receivers don’t put the ball the on the turf.
Eh, I tend to fall into the category you pass more too build up a lead then you run the rest of the way. But pass first and more often than run to build lead.
This is one of those things that really bugs me about the stat heads: statements like this that assume the numbers underlying them have controlled for even a bare majority of the variables involved. If you have Brady, yes. If you have Alex Smith, no. If you’re looking at a team that breaks big plays off of play-action, the numbers will say they should pass more, but the reality is that they’re probably at the sweet spot already. I could go on and on.
I like a lot Caplan’s stuff, but he says in that article “as a play caller”. I’ve been assuming that DP will not call plays – the two OC candidates we’ve heard about both have extensive play calling experience. Does Chilly move here to do what he does now – not call plays? To me, it would be shocking if DP took on being a first time head coach AND first time play caller at the same time. Shurmur, who had two years experience calling plays before going to the Browns, called plays his first year but learned his lesson and hired Chilly to run the offense in his second.
I’m 100 percent rooting for Andy and Chiefs and against the Pats. You all can’t stop me. My rooting interest doesn’t affect the outcome anyway.
We need them to lose so they can hire assistant coaches. On the other hand, “Eagles hired Super Bowl-winning OC Doug Pederson” would sound good.
We have to wait for KC to lose to officially hire Doug, and officially hire assistants, but realistically I don’t think it changes much,. doug Pederson probably knew who some of his assistants would be going into the interview with the Eagles.. No one is sitting on their hands waiting for KC to lose to start talking to and negotiating with assistants, that process has already started. Id be surprised if today they didn’t already know who half their coaching staff will be… Don’t think this KC game has any effect on our eventual coaching staff
Im sure stuff is happening behind the scenes, but I’m not patient enough to wait to find out.
I was just in the middle of writing a very similar comment. Even if the Chiefs win, I bet they already have most assistants figured out, and on top of that, after the game, I’m sure the Eagles will have some additional time to discuss any remaining assistants they haven’t hired yet. In a couple months time, I doubt it makes a significant difference.
Yup.. The only thing that changes is we will have to wait longer for the entire staff to be announced, but some will Probably be leaked to the media before then.
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Just doing the obvious — identifying them and having a handshake agreement — is *not* nearly enough.
The new staff needs to begin putting the playbook together.
Identifying the kind of players they want, so the draft board can be reconstructed.
Looking at the current roster.
But it is what it is.
I want KC to win too,,, im in no Rush to hear the Lurie, HOWIE, Pederson introductory press Confrence
100% on the Chiefs as well but more because I have a TON of obnoxious Pats fan friends who I want to shut up.
You do? I live 15 minutes from Foxboro
Haha well you clearly have more!
I just wanna see a good game.,, injuries have taken some Luster out of the playoffs… Maclin/Gronk Hobbled. Who knows how much Edleman can give them… Hoping for a great game, don’t care much about the results
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What a rip off that one of the most exciting offenses (Steelers) are decimated by injuries, looking like a shell of themselves
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Hopefully there aren’t any more costly injuries this playoff
Lol I certainly WOULDNT “drop my baby out of a burning building” and trust That LaFell will catch him
Pederson’s O is going to have to be very impressive for them to keep pace with NE. Pats didn’t run the ball once that drive, BTW. Of course, we don’t have Brady.
Must be so much fun being able to root for GRONK!
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That dude would OWN philly if he played for the Eagles.
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Im stuck holding out hope for a Zack Ertz/ OJ Howard TE Tandem
Ertz drops at least one of those passes. He’s overvalued.
Easy to say yet Gronk catches passes from Brady and Ertz has been catching passes from Vick/Foles/Bradford /Sanchez/Barkley. Huge difference. He also has better career stats then Travis Kelce who is a pro bowler. In no way is Ertz overvalued, he’s actually been underused.
No question he’s been undersused/misused.
Well said..
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Keep Bradford in place, and watch Ertz and jordan Mathews BLOW UP!!
And Andrew Luck.
Wow had to reach back to college to try and make a point huh, really reaching there.
Point is, he has drops problems with whomever he plays. Not just crappy Eagles QBs.
Wouldn’t mind having Hunter Henry from Arkansas. Very complete TE who can block just as good as he can catch. Almost Brent Celekesque.
Unfortumately im not familiar with him,,, im pretty worthless this year when it comes to draft talk
OJ Howard is very talented and most likely the first TE off the board next draft but if we want value for a position that isn’t of major need Henry would be a great pick and could slide right into Celek’s place is he isn’t here next year.
I don’t know who — in the TV business — thought watching a kick return from just above ground level from the opposite EZ is a great idea.
It’s not. Very had to see development of the play.
Same with punts. Very hard to see a blocked punt unfolding.
Did he just call Patrick Chung physical?
Ugh. Yes. *Edit* “very”
Clearly just making sh*t up as he goes.
Well, I guess he was physical here, he just couldn’t cover or get to the ball carrier very often. When he did make contact, though, he blasted the *&^( outta that guy to make up for it, even if it was his own teammate. 🙂
It Still Irks the fuck out of me to see Maclin in a Cheifs jersey…. But we didn’t Pay TOO MUCH for him and saved Cap space…. Awesome
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Cap space should be used on retaining your best Talent, refusing to pay an extra million was not worth Losing MACLIN, just like an extra 20mil in cap space is not worth losing Bradford and going into next season with Mark Sanchez, Chase Daniels, and the 4th best QB in a shitty QB class, which essentially makes us irrelevant
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I No Longer want to sign other teams free agents, so I no longer care about cap space. pay to keep as many of our best and most important players that we can afford, and build the rest of the team with cheap rookie contracts drafting well.
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Plus with HOWIE Roseman in Charge, I can hope he extends our players knowing that our Cap will NEVER be a mess under Howie’s watch..
Kicker- that cap space went to murray ugh
Lol… At this point, I just laugh
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The money we gave to Miles Austin, could have been added to the MACLIN offer and it would have been enough to beat the KC offer… Of course MACLIN wanted to feel the love, and chips personality could never have beaten Andys in that regard
Who was in charge of the cap this year?
Paying 20mil for a QB who has never played in a play off game… Has never really won a big game is crazy. Bradford has never put a team on his back and carried them to victory.
Young QB with a 2 more OL and a WR is going to give you a better chance to win than Bradford in 2-3 years if he is even competent
Very well said.
What young QB are you talking about? You need to try to win next 2-3 years with Lurie. Nob ody has patience. We could be looking for years and years for a QB if you’re looking for Tom Brady or Drew Brees. Playoff winning QBs rarely come available. We aren’t looking just for 2-3 years from now. Young QB can still be groomed anyway behind Bradford. OL mean little without a QB.
Yup…very well said.. People are nuts, they don’t even really mean the shit they say, because if we let Bradford walk and they are stuck watching Sanchez the next two years they will be miserable every single day… People talk that cap shit now, but will burn the city to ground next year if they are stuck watching Mark Sanchez and Chase Daniels.
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I don’t believe you can just go in any draft and find a QB whenever you need 1.. Stars have to Align, you need to have the RIGHT PICK, in the RIGHT Draft… I think its fucking absurd fanboyism to look at as “we will just go draft our QB of the Future”.. Some drafts are lucky if there is 1 QB who turns out good… It could be 5 drafts until we are able to get our franchise QB… People are fucking nuts… There aren’t even 30 good Qbs in this world enough,to go around for every franchise, yet people can just act like we can go into any draft and get our franchise QB
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I also don’t think enough peiple realize how well Bradford played the position down the stretch, I don’t think enough people realize how much better he can be building chemistry thru continuity, and sorrounding him with better players. I also don’t think people appreciate how hard it is for a QB to look like he is getting better each week, while the rest of the franchise is declining every week, and people have to be bat shit crazy to want to lose a QB who CLEARLY was still improving for us..
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Stats won’t tell the story, And fans aren’t going to take the time to really go back and watch how he played the position the second half of the season, but Hopefullly our decision makers get it right
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Im baffled as to how a single fan could exist that doesn’t want Bradford back. It really amazes me, it’s extremely unlikely that we can get our hands on a QB who will play at a higher level,the next 3 years than what we can get from Bradford..
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I don’t think Bradford is the answer for the Next Decade, but a 5yr deal that we can get out of after year 3, allows us to use this offseason/Draft to fill some glaring needs, and when we get to next years draft, hopefully we will have less immediate needs, and hopefully when it’s our turn to pick there will be a player available who HOWIE, and Pederson are convinced can become our franchise QB, if we can’t get him in next years draft, hopefully we can get him the following year, but while we are hunting for a future franchise QB, bradford in place allows us to contend for this division now, because we have so many of the key positions in place, that we would be foolish to not try to win our division next year..
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We have to,find a young stud QB in the next 3 drafts, I just think it’s foolish to be put in a position where you are DESPERATE for a QB. rather try to contend with Bradford, Lane, kelce, Ertz, Jordan, and AGHOLAR, and fill in the Guards and RB (two of the easier positions to will traditionally).. And if we are lucky enough to find our franchise QB when it’s our turn to pick this year, or the year after. Not the end of the world to have that kid sit the bench for a year or two behind Bradford on a team good enough to compete for the division.
..
Besides Fletcher Cox, there isn’t a player on this roster that I would pay before Bradford, so I don’t at all understand fans complaining about the price tag… Id let all 8 of our free agents walk if that’s what it takes to have a QB and not be completely irrelevant next year.
..
YOU CAN NOT LOOK FOR QBS out Of DESPERATION, ESPECIALLY if you don’t have a top 10 pick. you can’t just draft THE BEST QB available when we pick, the best QB available ISNT always neccessarily GOOD ENOUGH! You NEED to have a better more Concrete option at QB in place for the next 3 years so you aren’t drafting QB’s out of desperation, and you give yourself the chance to be Patient, and wait TIL the RIGHT QB is available when it’s our turn to pick, and if we are so damn lucky that we end find him right away, so what if he spends a year or two behind Bradford? Even better!
..
This notion that we can go into any draft needing a Franchise guy and finding him is a fucking fairytale of stupidity from the same people that would bitch continuosly if they had to watch Chase Daniels or Mark Sanchez for the next two seasons… Drafting QBs out of Desperation is how you end up with Geno Smith.,. The Purpose of Cap space is to be able to pay guys you can win with… Realistically, there isn’t a QB we can get,our hands on that will give us a better chance to win than Bradford will the next 3 years. And our division is too much of a Joke to fully rebuild and not try to win it NEXT YEAR..
…
The best time to draft a QB is when you already have won, and you are drafting the QB because you believe so much in him you can’t stand to pass him up, not drafting whoever the best QB available is because you don’t want to be stuck with mark Sanchez,,
,,
fucking absurd that would be ok with having the ceiling of the friggin Texans so that the Eagles can save Cap space… Whp gives a shit about Cap space if you DONT have a QB? Think the skins aremt going to have to drastically overpay just to keep the QB THEY Drafted? Are they just going to let Cousins walk because it cost too much? When the skins are smarter than our fans, THATS rock bottom lol
Classic Andy Reid clock mismanagement going on this quarter.
TD:
Something we should prepare for?
I would say so. Hopefully that could be one thing Doug leaves in KC.
They had 2 key third downs, took timeouts, and then converted. Think he wants to set tone on 1st drive by matching NE’s TD.
I agree with that but then you can also say maybe they just weren’t prepaid for some of the looks the Pats are giving them. Not really here to argue on that one its just classic Reid.
The Pederson Option!!!!!!!!!!
Andy Reid team with clock management issues? I’m shocked.
I sure as hell hope Pederson doesn’t come with ANDYs clock management,
,,
Today I couldn’t help but think about our 3 point SB loss to the Patriots with Andy and Donovan taking their sweet old time, when we should have been hurrying up to try and come back from behind. I remember watching how much Donovan was taking his sweet time, and it’s like Millions and Millions of people watching Couldnt believe wtf Donovan was doing out there moving as slow as he was… It was mind boggling, to ne trying to come back and win the Super Bowl and our QB operating in slow motion, just Bizzare
Neither could TO.
I don’t know If KC wants to get into a shoot out with bRady. If the cHeifs are going to win this game, it will have to be won on the backs of the KC defense.
..
patriots have a Nasty Front 7 in their own right…
..
So far in the 2016 playoffs, the team with the better QB is 4-0 .. Can KC be the first team to win a game against a team that has a better QB? It would probably take a dominant performance from Houston, Tamba, and Dontari beating the,turnovers out of Brady
Still 0 runs for the Pats.
Spoke to soon.
Seems like they made peace with the fact they can’t run on the KC’s front plus when you have brady you can get away with a one dimensional offense.
KC’s D playing like ours did first half of season, stop them on 1st down, stop them on 2nd, give up 3rd and long.
By the end of the season, they just said screw 1st and 2nd down, and just gave up yardage willy nilly
watching this game is fun and all, but against Brady, you will have to win the last 5 minutes of the game to advance in the playoffs…. Unlikely that KC can whip the patriots so bad that Brady won’t be in position to win the game with 5 minutes left in the 4th…
Solution: Take Brady out of the game.
True that.. tamba,,Dontari, Houston, someone needs to land a kill shot
What’s with the stupid camera angles
Playoffs
Shame, I would have liked to see what ANDYs offense looked like with Jamal Charles and a healthy MACLIN
..
but the Patriots would be Nasty if they still had their weapons, Blount Force Trauma, And it would be fun to watch Bellichick use Dion lewis against Andy who drafted him
..
Gotta respect the job Andy and Dougie have done with Alex Smith. They have him looking better than HARBAUGH and the Niners were ever able to make him look
Under Harbaugh . . .
Alex Smith 19-5-1, w/ QB ratings of 104.7 and 90.4.
What’s with receivers not knowing how to catch this season. Seems like a league wide issue.
Too many former Eagles on both teams….its spreading
So frustrating to watch Patrick Chung not suck on the Patriots.
Well, Belichick may have something to do with that.
Yeah, more of a complaint about Kelly’s coaching staff than about Chung. Kelly talked about being a coach who designs his schemes to maximize the strengths of the players he has but proved himself to be anything but. Belichick actually is that.
So true… The last thing Chip is interested in is letting players dictate his schemes… Dude wasn’t even willing to line up under center so that his expensive new RB WOULDNT be useless lol..
Wasn’t that a chop block?
Remind me why the team didn’t even interview McDaniels?
bad reputation with relationships
Look what he’s doing with LaFell, Edelman and over the hill Jackson
i’m not saying he doesn’t know x’s and o’s…….but he’s been known to be a dick
So what Belichick was a dick in Cleveland and is still a dick with the Patriots!
i hear ya but i’m not in charge of the team!
Edelman is a stud because of Brady, Lafell is still just average, and Jackson has done nothing at all
Why Brady and not McDaniels? Makes no sense. Coach designs and calls the plays.
Makes no sense that statement.
Makes no sense? Brady did good when McDaniels wasn’t there and most of it is Bill Belicheck. Also McDaniels was a complete disaster in Denver. Yes my statement makes perfect sensee.
Brady did WELL, not good.
Brady throws the ball to WRs who are open. It’s the coach’s scheme that gets them open.
The same scheme that was in place before McDaniels got there so yea once again it isn’t McDaniels.
What planet are you from?
Pats’ fans have pretty much trashed Lafell all season long.
Because Lurie wants familiarity now. No diverse options.
False. Interviewed Gase. Interviewed McAdoo. DID NOT interview McDaniels
drafted Tebow in the first round
Traded Cutler after he had his best season, traded Brandon Marshall, and the list goes on with his terrible decisions.
Cutler pretty much forced the trade. McDaniels hated him like crazy.
Cutler and Marshall haven’t really proven those were poor decisions, both have had issues to say the least
but those two are still more successful than McDaniels.
Mcdaniels won wayyyy more SB’s than Cutler and Marshall could ever dream of……Marshall never even been to the playoffs
As a HC? No.
As the OC for a HoF coach? Yes.
ok? but saying Cutler and Marshall are more succesful is a joke
Did McDaniels achieve individual success? Your logic is like saying you got a bunch of rings when you were warming the bench.
Where the hell is Marshall and Cutler’s “individual success”???? Cutler for most of his career has been a running joke in the league, and Marshall has been on multiple teams because he’s a prima donna who players can’t stand (pretty much the same can be said for Cutler)…..and Marshall has never even played in a playoff game….Mcdaniels has won championships as part of a team, no “team” does things as individuals. Mcdaniels was the playcaller last year…..not exactly a guy warming the bench as far as coaches go
Marshall for all his stats is known to make boneheaded plays and he even made two this year….one helping the Eagles win and dropping a clinching TD against the Pats
If I could bring in any 2 of McDaniels, Cutler, and Marshall, it’s Cutler and Marshall. And it isn’t even close.
You just don’t get it do you?
McDaniels taking the backseat to Belichick is the only reason why he’s even getting attention. Let me simplify it even more for you. BELICHICK AND BRADY are the ONLY REASONS why THE PATRIOTS ARE SUCCESSFUL. McDianels flopped in both St.Louis and Denver. Get over it.
Cutler and Marshall has won way more individual achievements and not TEAM achievements than McDaniels. If you don’t undestand that then you’re a lost cause.
Moronic reasoning.
McDaniels’s supporter. Nuff said.
um……. I’m over it, and typing in caps really helps you get your points across better, real mature!
Mcdaniels has been a part of multiple SB wins…..how many have Marshall and Cutler been apart of?
You’re going back to the Cowgirls logic. How far you’ve fallen.
i think you need to get some sleep
Yet Cutler just had a good year and Brandon Marshall is an all pro so that didn’t prove to be terrible decisions. You must watch a different NFL then the rest of us.
‘Cause McDaniels can’t bring Brady with him to the Eagles.
He ran Cutler out of town too.
Bc he is an ass
Because being a great Xs and Os and play caller is not the most important thing to be a HC.
Being a leader both emotionally and organisationally is far more important. Denver proved he was awful at both
Probably 1, because he had something of the same issues Kelly was fired for. And 2, he refused all interviews.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/01/08/report-josh-mcdaniels-wont-interview-for-any-jobs-this-week/
Titans fans are pleading Titans to get him for Mariota instead of the Mularkey they’re getting (probably).
I’m not saying “get”, I’m saying Interview. Why not wait and interview him when he’s available.
Because he’s a clown and everybody knows it. There’s a whole website dedicated to it.
So you can’t interview him and see if he’s learned or changed? Just take his one experience as career defining?
At least without chip maybe the Eagles can getting a roughing the passer call and our qb can be protected from he refs.
Chip would never challenge being out at the one.
How do the pats do this? They just roll on and on.
HOF coach and HOF QB, enough said.
And Gronk
Gronk is literally cheating.
Goat Coach and Goat QB is pretty formidable pairing
Don’t forget the willingness to bend the rules a little
Many, many live sacrifices to the dark one.
Hearing several patrick chung compliments
There’s dougie!
Watching this makes me think McCarthy really isn’t good enough.
Avant sighting! I repeat Avant sighting!
What’s that mean? Are they bringing him to interview for the WR coach?
He can do more than BLOCK though!
Had no idea he was on their team. just saw him.
I do wonder how many guys could beat Avant in the 40 and 100 yard dash at this point on the Chiefs’ roster.
But he can do something better than all our receivers
I was fine to see him get cut. He washed up even then.
He can sure carry a tune.
No big deal that penalty.
I see Doug Pederson hasn’t solve AR’s redzone issues.
No wonder smith doesn’t turn the ball over. He rarely puts the ball near humans.
He didn’t want a TO down 14-3.
Get that but has to give his receivers a chance
What WRs?
2 pro blowlers in maclin and kelce
Maclin isn’t a great leaper. Kelce almost fell on a play. That wasn’t Smith, he threw it.
The last play had nothing to do with leaping it was a fade route to the corner and ball was no where close to anybody. Other two plays to kelce were few feet above a 6’5 target.
What are you talking about? He’d have to throw it high. He was covered.
What are you his agent? So far none of his endzone throws have been catchable and thats not even debatable.
Maclin hasn’t been doing well in the playoffs. Kelce isn’t a WR.
Kelce “received” 72 catches this season and they paid maclin 11 million dollars so can’t say what receivers anymore.
Kelce stumbled, he was pushed but that wasn’t Smith’s fault.
People bitched when Bradford threw it up for end zone picks. One score instead of two.
Was going to correct you, but then I thought about the nature of the creatures sitting in the front row. You may have a point.
Yeah you can really see his limitations in games like this. He’s so reluctant to try and make big throws.
Lol
Not going to beat the pats with field goals.
WHo gets it to start 2nd?
KC
It was interesting 1st half at least. I was a bit more interested in this game than the Cards-Packers even though that is arguably a better matchup
I don’t know how many people caught the first sentence in this article.
“The Eagles will hire Doug Pederson to be their new head coach when the Chiefs are eliminated from the playoffs”.
Not “if”, but “when”.
Good stuff Tommy.
Seeing the ‘limited’ Alex Smith gives me Bradford nightmares . . .
Id give my arm to watch Bradford or Alex Smith QB our team next year instead of Mark Sanchez or Chase Daniels..
At $20M a year and Bradford is a hell of a lot less durable . . .
If the Eagles sign Chase Daniels . . .
The only reasonable inference to draw is a trade up — whatever the cost — to get a QB in the draft.
Otherwise, that’d be a huge head-scratcher.
Don’t get why they would do that this offseason.
An offense with Bradford-Murray even if Schwartz comes in & does a hero’s job with the defense screams to me ‘1st round playoff loss’
What’s the point getting Schwartz if you aren’t trying to win? I think Lurie wants to win not tank. We have many players in their mid to late 20s. Do you want to waste a few years of their prime or trade them?
The only positive about Chase Daniels is he’s probably better than Doug Pederson was a QB
I’d much rather keep the 20 million average salary we’re apparently all so eager to give Bradford and make sure we keep Cox and to a lesser extend Curry and other FAs.
People are so quick to mention how awful we’d be without Bradford because of what we’ll pay without him, yet completely fail to go the other way around that argument at look at what paying 20+ mill for an average as fuck QB will makes us give up. Admittedly, Cox probably wont go anywhere, but you cannot pay a QB big money and keep your team.
When you do it, you have to make sure your QB does what Aaron Rodgers did to the Redskins last week, not what Bradford did no do to the Redskins when he had the chance. And dont give the apology shit about Bradford surrounding cast, our OL, WR/TE, RB and defense is at least a similar level to the Packers, the difference was somewhere else.
No you don’t have to make sure you have Rodgers a top 3 QB that’s a TALL order. In fact young QBs aren’t at that level except who Cam? They should be able to keep Cox and pay a QB. You’re wasting Cox if you aren’t trying to win. You have to have a
You could be waiting for 20 years or more for Aaron Rodgers. It’s just not how it always works. Eagles have had Donovan and he wasn’t Rodgers.
Groom a QB behind Bradford.
All I gotta say is that Belichick’s branch of coaches have all failed as HCs. Boom.
Past performance does not indicate future results.
hurdur then why hasn’t any of them gotten another chance in the NFL?
But drafting Tebow in the 1st does indicate that you’re a moron.
You guys seem out of control. I’m not saying the guy is perfect, if he were he would be a HC already.
I’m not even saying he should be coach.
I’m saying he should have been INTERVIEWED. Interviewed.
He was in the binder but Tier V
Don Shula had the same dead-tree problem . . . with one exception.
The bad:
– Bill Arnsparger
– John Sandusky
– Monte Clark
– Don McCaffery (won a SB in Y-1 w/ Shula’s Colts team then tanked)
– Howard Schnellenberger (but won mythical NCAA title with UMiami)
___________
The good:
Chuck Noll.
Same with Parcells up until Belicheck. Then later, Coughlin.
Sean Payton?
Mike Zimmer?
Yes, they followed as well.
Noll is a hell of an outlier though.
Hard to say what you would define as a ‘successful coach’ too because my definition is certainly alot broader than having to appear in or win a SB.
BS77:
Every one of the coaches I listed had sub-.500 records. Consistently bad teams. (McCaffery was like Barry Switzer, then the bottom fell out)
Schnellenberger was actually fired by Robert Irsay on the sidelines in the middle of a game at the Vet!!!
That got brought up Didigner last week on WIP and they laughed about it. One of the few guys ever fired during the middle of a game.
It doesn’t surprise me either that most of a really successful’s coach staff fail when they become head coaches either.
Even head coaches who have succeeded including won a SB or got to a SB don’t have a pretty overall picture at their 2nd/3rd stops in the NFL.
great point.
what’s that old saying about “Second Acts”?
Again if Brady is so valuable to team success how does Rodgers no go farther each year? McCarthy not getting it done.
Pats have a better defense?
Think people somehow under rate Brady. He is the greatest QB ever. He does not normally have the playmakers Rogers has… so does not get the same kind of MVP yardage.
Do think McCarthy is a question mark.
brady is the best, I cant stand him
Yup and uber competitive. If you read the reports, he lives a pretty spartan existence relatively speaking and pretty methodological one too. Hyper obsessive about sleep, diet, and nutrition along with repeatable daily regimen.
Brady brings everyone’s level up. I can’t stand the guy.
I hate the pats
Alex Smith throws it away instead of taking sacks and throws it so either his receiver catches it or it’s incomplete. And he can run. I just really like watching him despite the lack of production.
LOL that last sentence is hysterical.
He’s a tricked out Accord. Yeah you can do alot to it but in the end it is only an Accord.
We could use one
With $20M annually, Bradford can afford to put lots of chrome accessories and even neon running boards on if necessary.
Belickek no sweatshirt
Kind of disappointed he didn’t go with the 3/4 cutoff hoodie sweatshirt look. It was classy.
KC OLT Eric Fisher — 1st overall in 2013 (Lane Johnson #4) — looking pretty solid the past several weeks.
Knile Davis wouldn’t be so quick if he’d had nearly 500 touches last season.
Yep everyone knows that RB’s are toast after a huge season
except chip
He was down.
no
Out
out
Guess we didnt know how to put Patrick Cheung in a position to make plays
Cheung is a good pure SS. He cannot cover anyone decent but in the box he will play well with confidence.
He cannot play in space but the Pats don’t ask him too so they are fine. McCourty is a huge help as well
Wow nice! TY.
That is a killer, wow watching the Chiefs this game is painfully similar to watching the Eagles this past season.
i felt the same way about the patriots in the first quarter with the numerous dropped passes
I am so praying for chiefs loss so kc & other press can see the real andy reid at his lame best 1 and done with talent.
are you drinking again daveH?
I hadnt but thats a fine idea.
methodical
Starting to think Gase, Hue and Chip Kelly made BIG MISTAKES and that the Big Winners will be McAdoo and Doug Pederson. I don’t know if the Eagles and Giants are winners, but Pederson and McAdoo won the coaching search.
..
Let me start of by saying Im shocked chip got another HC job right away and it’s kind of disgusting when there are good pro coaches that been working for years and years, and a guy like Hue Jackson goes 8-8 with the Raiders, and then has to work YEARS before being given another HC opportunity. Shurmur gets fired, and he works years and may never get an opportunity again, yet chip makes a mess and gets another HC job two weeks later? Something disgusting about that…
..
But I think Hue and Chip messed up, and it’s going to end up costing them. What are the biggest factors that lead to NFL success? A QB and winning your division… Hue spent years working his way back up to another HC opportunity and he accepts a job with the Friggin Browns? Even if their new front office does a fantastic job in Cleveland, you are now the coach of the worst team in a division with the Steelers with Big Ben, tOmlin and a stacked offense, Marvin Lewis and the bengals which might be the most Talemted roster in the NFL, and with HARBAUGH. Flacco and Ozzie, I doubt the Ravens will be bad for much longer.. To win THAT division, THATS ROUGH!!
..
Chip Kelly might have gotten a job, but I’m not sure he gets another HC opportunity so fast without Tom Gamble working for a team that just fired a coach who couldn’t even string together coherent sentences (Tomasula), and Chip is spending his “Second Chance” with a shity Niners roster, having to compete against Arians and the Cardinals, Amd the Seahawks? Both Chip and Hue have a ridiculuos mountain to climb to win those Divisions, heck they have a long way to go before they can even be in 2nd place in those divisions.. They both spend their “Second Chances” on situations it’s going to be Ridiculuosly hard to succeed in…
..
even Adam Gase took a job with an infamously shitty owner, in a Division that BRady and Bellichick have dominated forever.
..
You succeed by winning your division, or winning enough games to win a Wildcard, and while neither the Giants nor Eagles have juggernauts of a team right now, it’s probably going to be much easier for Pederson or McAdoo to succeed, than it will be for Gase,Hue and Chip
..
This makes me think that people may want to re-examine the criteria they use when deciding on their opinions about what the most attractive jobs.. Eagles are allegedly one of the least attractive jobs, yet im not so sure that’s true.
..
I think Doug Pederson with Braford and McAdoo with Eli have a better chance of succeeding in the NFC east, than Gase/Tannahill have a shot of succeeding in the patriots division, and I have NO FAITH that Chip will be leading the niners to division wins any time soon over Arians/Palmer and Carroll/Wilson … And when Hue and chip get fired, it might be a while before they get another HC opportunity.., Pederson and McAdoo may be the big winners in this HC job hunt…
Jumping way ahead and even the Browns have made some changes this offseason.
Pederson will do as well as the players & roster that Roseman provides to him and if the Eagles finally find a competent defensive coordinator and scheme.
Chip is far better off with a shittty roster to F with
So quick
I sense a blowout coming, poor ol Andy, just cant get it done
I predict a Press Conference in Philly on Monday
Bold Move Cotton
I wonder if Jaworski will be at the press conference and if so will he try to plug one of businesses including his wedding business or golf courses?
Plug . . . !!!
-5 spread for the Pats today was easy for me to take. I would have gotten a bit hesitant at say -8 or -9.
I do not care what anyone says, Alex Smith is not a good QB. I would take Bradford over Smith in a heart beat.
I wouldn’t say that. Smith has shown a hell a lot more than Bradford has in the NFL including this year.
His problems are glaring in this game.
You can easy say the same about Bradford who even this year missed 3 games.
Vick, Kolb, Foles miss games on Eagles didn’t they? KC has a good OL and wasn’t the narrative players quit on Kelly?
KC OL sucks… They are deep into their backups… However their coaches can actually adept their scheme to protect their OL.
Looks good right now. He just had plenty of time 5 plays in a row.
Bradford has some glaring weaknesses as well… He struggles with feel of the game… Is risk averse… Horrible injury history… And has never won at the NFL level.
Yes but if I am starting a team today I would choose Bradford over Smith.
Who andy reid? When was he injured
He looked fine to me with game feel in 2nd half of year when he got comfortable . Threw 66% completions and cut down on TOs and had lots of drops and everyone wants OL.
He hasn’t had an OL or great WRs. He didn’t look that risk averse. Brady is risk averse. Cutler cut down his TOs by not taking risks. People cried when Bradford threw end zone ints.
He has been on bad teams in NFL. Injury history is what it is. But he ended healthy and until you come up with a QB it does not matter you can hate Bradford but no one has come up with a sure QB option yet. RG3, Daniel, Sanchez , other option who do you like?
I think they are both good. Bradford is spectacular at times with his arm talent. Alex has that slippery annoying mobility and cautious with the ball
Andy Reid LOVES him.. argue with him
Reid also loves all-you-can-eat buffets
He has lost some weight.
like a deck chair blowing off the Queen Mary
Wow what a play
That was a nice throw tho
You could see Pederson’s fingerprints all over the play calls on that drive.
(I kid)
Not a single sack yet in this game. Great O-Line play and coaching. Still, kind of surprised there hasn’t even been just 1 yet.
I am no coach but I would think KC needs to get the ball back here.
man that missed int, wouldve been big
Gotta score points to win folks!
Tell that to their coach
Holy hell that last KC series was exactly like a chip series.
slower and from under center
Dat swing pass Doe!
not much O when Maclin sits
Like a true andy reid series
I think Andy is the only coach in NFL history who’s team could get a delay of game penalty on a pond in the fourth quarter of a playoff game down by 11
we’re getting his protege.
refs keeping KC in the game
Marcus Peters had missed 2 INTs in this game.
One through his arms last series.
One in the EZ just now — if he gets his head around, he could have had it.
And the officials are letter NE DBs push WRs past 5 yards, too
Th officiating of passing plays is much more preferable in the playoffs.
Much more contact allowed. Less of the 2-hand-touch backyard football effect.
Fewer penalties.
Faster game.
And after about 4:30 PM tomorrow; less Cam Newton.
That is always preferable.
You wish hahaha
I wish mother f-ing Cam would try to win tomorrow. The rest of y’all hope he wins. That’s the difference between you people and me.
And sorry for the paraphrase from Kings of Comedy.
Don’t worry KC .. andy will get you next season
Hopefully Pederson isn’t as bad as Andy in running a hurry up offense when the team falls behind.
I always pictured Droopy Dog talking over the Eagles as coach when the Eagles ran hurry up/2-minute offense.
‘Oh my. We have to hurry it up now.’
fumble by Conley not called by refs?
still trying to keep KC in the game
I dont even know what a catch is in the nfl anymore
I know what isn’t a catch; Josh Huff and Riley Cooper on a pass play.
well, yeah, I do know that
or stone hands Aglohor
Rrply
OK
this is one of the reasons Reply should be discarded
Watch now steelers will somehow win and Pats will get a wounded Steelers tea at home.
Nope. The Steelers will get rocked tomorrow night and we’ll be treated to another Peyton vs. Brady playoff game………..and some mass suicides in Pittsburgh. Win / Win.
I am looking forward to another Brady/Manning championship game rematch.
I know people have a lot of hate for both guys and the Patriots in particular, but they’re great TV.
Yup and I would like to see some snow next weekend in NE.
Really is an interesting history including in the playoffs and it is eeiry how similiar their career stats.
Brady has just kicked his ass in head-to-head matchups with better stats in the playoff matchups
*Denver
It is 2-2 in career playoff matches with Manning have won the last two matchups.
They’ve only played 4 times in the playoffs? That seems a few games light.
not a catch
Under Review . . .
Play the damn game
yep, at this point, who cares
Line of the day:
Even when they lose, they win.
If Belichek had Andys roster this wudve been a blowout
he has Reid’s number
Wth man do you know who Brady, Gronk, Edelman etc are? Let’s not kid ourselves and think they win on grit.
Yep
Belichek makes them all great.
Ok.
Chiefs need 2 scores to tie the game.
6:30 left in 4th.
Lets see if Alex Smith runs the 4-minute offense . . . like D-Mac did.
Or the 2-minute offense . . . like, well, pretty much every other team.
Nice throw there, but the receiver is so well coached he stays in balance to pick up one extra yard instead of stepping out
Exactly. Can you believe that?
And Conley graduated in 3 years with a degree in jounalism
I thought the clock Kees going anyway
I heard it was in investigative journalism at a sorority house.
http://www.screeninsults.com/images/revenge-of-the-nerds-panty-raid.jpg
The theme song is from Spaceballs:
‘Dink, dink, dink, dink!’
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DKJBUwogYMI/hqdefault.jpg
They may be trying the 5 minute offense. Or 6.
Pederson’s play selection:
‘Please, God!’
wow
No Eagles WR on the roster makes that catch Avant just made.
Cooper makes it at least 1 or 2 times out of 10.
you forgot the 0. before those numbers
haha while looks and stares at his hands after he drops it like it was a surprising outcome.
Pederson’s staff is going to be so crucial for his success.
At least we can officially start assembling it in about 15 minutes
Learning from Andy’s mistake would be more crucial IMO.
Jason Avant – Playmaker!
He needs to put his hand down and stop signaling to fictional characters. Quite possibly the dumbest celebration in sports.
Mr third down
This hire stinks.
Was getting worried also
Think your right, but hope your wrong.
This Chiefs hurry up is brutal to watch – classic Big Red.
Shades of the eagles final drive in the superbowl
They just showed andy’s face .. looks completely dumbfounded
Qb running for 3 yards taking 10 seconds is not helpful
Pederson is in charge of the 2 min drill
But who is in charge of the 5 minute drill?
Pats pass rushers being tackled at LOS
just about every play
allowed in playoffs
Tucker – The Pats just have no fear of the Chiefs’ WRs.
Thank you Cap’n Obvious.
Chiefs need to call a timeout holy shit.
And Kelly took issue with how Avant runs routes. Avant has zero speed. He either gets open on route-running ability or catches it anyway when not open.
Kelly has been awful at WR evaluation for years.
Amazing how Riley Cooper fit Chip’s ‘culture,’ but Jason Avant did not.
Looks like another Pats-Broncos AFC championship game.
The old dink and dunk offense…..Fine if you’re defense keeps you in the game, but not when you’re down 2 TDs in the 4th quarter with your season on the line.
Damn near 50 passes and not even 250 yards passing for Alex Smith. Ouch.
oh my god this is a disaster. What a mess.
Andy is managing the hell out of this clock
Classic Andy clock management
This whole drive is why I don’t miss Andy.
So 12 didn’t run out of bounds, then they call a running play. AR never change big guy, you’re adorably incompetent at clock management.
At least we don’t have to worry about him after winning a Super Bowl
Can we all agree now that the management of the last 6 minutes of the 2004 SB was not McNabb’s fault?
Big Red baby, he’s the same today that he was 10 years ago.
Exasperating as hell
And the WRs are in outerspace
Yes
I am speechless. There are no words anymore Andy.
God we hired this OC. Lovely.
lol, false start out of a timeout.
WR not getting out bounds – 45 seconds
Stupid screw up with substitutions – 25 seconds
Andy Reid screwing up the hurry up offense – Priceless.
4 plays in 1:23 with a timeout and the 2-minute morning.
Holy shit is that bad clock management.
KC thinks they’re only down 1 score. omg. this is hysterical.
In bounds at the three. This is awesome
Huddling lol
Wow they are huddling
lets huddle up again, and again
Huddling?!
Tucker – ‘This is pathetic.’
So they’ve wasted so much time they have to onsides kick now, can’t even kick off haha. Congrats KC you got Andy.
Reid obviously trying to do Eagles/Pederson a solid and committed to setting Doug free so we can hire assistants.
Why is he saving the timeouts? Is he thinking of kicking it deep
refs trying to keep KC in the game
just shutup
same penalty they ignored when NE had the ball
Funny, I thought they completely ignored a horse collar tackle against NE.
Reid did NOT call that run.
That was Doug Pederson because he handles play-calling in the last 2 minutes.
So HA!
Chiefs with that 5 and a half minute hurry up drive lol.
Murraywould have dropped that
Carbon copy of the super bowl
If the Chiefs haven’t completely screwed up managing within the 5 yard line, their would be more than 2 minutes left on the clock and the Chiefs would have 3 timeouts yet.
Total embarassment. If I ever hired Andy I’d stipulate that there was a dedicated clock management person he had to listen to.
Clockologist
Exactly!!!! Any local college freshman for free
What does a dedicated to clock management guy get paid? I might be looking for a job, and I’m sure I could do a better job of that than andy
Shit pay them 100 grand, it’s worth it.
throwing a pass to Avant at the 3 yd line in the middle of the field is just stupid
Would be nice if receivers were looking to go out of bounds when they had the chance. It didn’t look like anyone on that team had any urgency.
So because Reid completely f’ed up, the Chiefs couldn’t have kicked it deep.
I still don’t understand why they didn’t. Stupid.
wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.
The Doug Pederson Era has officially begun
Over/under seasons at 3.5 at -120 on the under.
That’s a good line. I’d take over, but it’s a coin flip
Over
Dejavue. Avant showing crazy catches and Reid with horrible clock management.
That being said I do wonder if the clock management is due more to Pederson and Smith or Reid. Reid seemed to be rolling his eyes and shaking his head on the sideline on a quick close-up. Hope Pederson doesn’t bring that clock management back here.
Based on his track record, it’s appropriate to lay blame for that on Reid. Had clock management problems long before Pederson was ever his OC.
Yeah, that’s why I’m willing to give Pederson the benefit of the doubt. However you do have to wonder if he will bring that here since Reid has pretty much has been his coaching mentor his entire coaching career, and even his coach in some capacity during his playing career.
Feel like I need to add I’m not a Pederson basher. I think he could succeed with proper OC and DC in place.
Guys have their own ideas. They’re not going to do everything their mentor did.
I’m not saying he will definetly mimic AR, but it’s a possibility.
Playing Belichick and the Patriots, with 2 weeks to rest and extra time to prepare, doesn’t help either
Playing Belichick even without those benefits doesn’t help.
Lucky ass patriots
would it matter? Reid needs 6 minutes to score
Unreal. How often do you get Brady throwing a shit pass like that in the crunch and you don’t get it.
Patriots almost as lucky as Eagles…
there are 2 types of luck
Any Reid tard can manage the clock better
So amount of time between game being officially over and Eagles hiring Pederson? Will they meet him in NE to get him to sign the contract?
Reid?
Same difference
Kind of like Finkel and Einhorn?
Tard
Had a flashback to 1999.
GR:
Pederson’s got a copy of the contract in his locker.
Reid is mocked around the league for clock management and this game will just be more fuel for the fire.
Reid tard
Good/very good coach with some huge and fatal weaknesses in key moments.
Indeed. Think they said 11 playoff appearances in 17 years . He has done a great job faking people out and making 5 mill and more
Can we bring Avant in as the next WR coach?????
God no!
No. I don’t want him filling up our WR’s heads with fictional bed time stories.
..what?
Avant loves himself some Bible.
So did Dawk.
Dawk didn’t make a spectacle of it on the field of play from scUM in college.
you dont?
Personally, yes. On the field, no.
you said at bedtime, but i wouldnt want him either, for other reasons
I was more taking digs at Avant’s showy nature.
Whatever, you said the same “bedtime stories” nonsense about McDermott. If you have to be a bigot, at least be man enough to stand up for your baseless hatred
Nope. that was Laeagle who ripped on McDermott for speaking that type of nonsense at the LaSalle awards dinner.
I hate McDermott for his lousy coordinating here.
I hate Avant for his silly god hands on the field.
Media Mike is right. That was me.
As for Rand, I find many of the people worried about how the government and others are dragging down their exceptionalism to be without fail quite unexceptional.
Mike is a bigot, but since he hates Christians he just calls himself a liberal
Your screen name is from one of the biggest pieces of shit in the history of the planet; I’m not worried much about you.
And wasn’t Rand anti-religion as well?
http://www.salon.com/2014/02/28/the_rights_ayn_rand_hypocrisy_why_their_religious_posture_is_a_total_sham/
??
What about as a possession WR player/coach!
Cmon Manning. I want one last Manning-Brady matchup.
Done deal.
Manning sucks doe
Shut yo mouth.
D:
We showed the blueprint why don’t teams follow it? The key is to score 35 unanswered points against the Pats.
the FIPP factor
With multiple special teams TDs . . .
Why doesn’t everyone?
Titans hire Mularkey. icymi.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14583759/tennessee-titans-hire-mike-mularkey-head-coach
Spoof headlines just write themselves.
Titans fans are probably furious.
Well entertaining game on what is usually best weekend of football all season.
I owe Reid a big thanks for a NYC weekend upcoming. Thanks Big Red. You didn’t let me down.
same ol AR, I really like him, but some things never change
How many times do they show shots of Olivia Munn if she is at the game? Irrational Packers’ fans will go ape shit.
Would you rather look at Eddie Lacy’s gunt and/or Bruce Arians?
Or all of the faux ‘diehard’ Cardinals’ fans . . .
In St. Louis…………..oh, you meant Cardinals football fans.
After having lived in St Louis for a year and half, some people only ever talk about the Cardinals.
It is fighting words to speak ill of them but at least more people have seemed to come around to the fact that a bar that only carries Bud products on draft sucks regal. All too common yet in St Louis.
Wouldn’t mind if she was the halftime show. Don’t act like you don’t enjoy looking at her.
Psylocke!
If people want to criticize her, it should be for her acting range or lack of it. Even in the Newsroom show she was one of the weaker members of the cast.
Maybe the reason KC took so long to score in the last 6 minutes is because of New England’s defense. And not Reid.
Same coaches. Same problem. Different QB, though.
Must be the Patriots.
But but Doug
Pederson was responsible only for the last 55 seconds or so of the drive
throwing to Avant covered at the 3 is just stupid
Chip Kelly is grinning hard at all his skeptics who cried about time of possession.
Chip is probably deep sea fishing with Baalke and Gambe on the owner’s boat right now
And waiting to push Baalke overboard when no one is looking.
You wouldn’t last too long in the waters off San Francisco without a wet suit . . .
Freezing at times even if you are ocean kayaking.
Frank Morris and the Anglin Brothers did.
Great reference. They made it, right?
Has Pederson already signed/scanned/sent a signed contract to Lurie already?
Agent Bob Lamonte just happened to have a signed contract at his house, along with a fax machine.
Lurie received it 20 minutes.
Bri McCardle
@BriMcCardle
7m7 minutes ago
andy reid’s neighbors probably hate it when he’s banging pots and pans at 12:23 a.m. every new year’s
3 retweets
5 likes
Great find.
LOL!
Chiefs lost to every tough team they played this year
totally overrated
just like Chip Kelly!
Chip also lost to the bad teams
They beat the Patriots in their first meeting this year. Extremely tough to win in Foxborough twice in the same season.
wait, what? we gave Pats their first home loss in years. Maybe you mean early last year, in KC?
You’re right. They beat Denver. This is why we have ACViking, because I have no sense of time – just events. He gets the times, details, and facts correct.
I apologize.
I think the Cardinals take a dump on the Packers.
45-27 Cardinals win.
Was that 45-2.7 you meant to say?
I don’t want to anything scatology-related including a playoff game.
Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
22s23 seconds ago
After 14 seasons with Indianapolis, Clyde Christensen is leaving to become the Miami Dolphins’ offensive coordinator, per a Colts source.
CC was QB coach for Bruce Arians at Temple.
Arians had a hell of young staff . . . 30 years ago. Hard to believe.
41-14 Cardinals…eff the Packers
I guess that poster who has a mancrush for Reid won’t show up for a while
Isn’t that the troll is just in favor of whatever is opposite the Eagles are doing at that time?
same one
he predicted Reid would be in the superbowl
Don’t all coaches get 2 tickets to the Superbowl……………..
Yup I saw that. He deny it though being the utter and annoying turd he is.
I try to be a turd, I thought all eagle fans were turds
I think it’s the guy who liquidated his portfolio last week . . .
and then went short to the tune of $150MM
“In a CNBC interview on Friday, Cooperman said that
high-yield investors unable to sell their paper were shorting the S&P as a hedge.
“There is no liquidity in the credit market in the high-yield area. They can’t sell their papers, so what they are doing is they are cross-hedging and shorting S&Ps,” Cooperman said. “The S&P will just have to find a level that it is comfortable at. I would have thought that that level is not far from where we are presently.”
http://www.businessinsider.com/leon-cooperman-on-stock-market-jan-15-2016-1
Troll is a hedge fund investor?
he’s probably trying to steal the orange crop report and corner the market.
Brilliant reference.
Pretty much or he makes very opened predictions.
On a positive note, Jah scored 17 points in the 1st quarter tonight.
Jah Rastafari ?
You had to have an Arizona zip code to buy tickets to this game? Haha.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/196151/clock-management-again-bites-chiefs-coach-andy-reid
That was quick.
Really, the only way to judge Reid — and his staff and players — is see how other have fared against the Patriots in comparable circumstances.
And that includes the Pats have 2 weeks between games and extra time to prepare.
What I find so frustrating about Reid is this pattern. Here’s a game his team shouldn’t win. They get themselves in a position where they could win. Then he hits his rut with the same problems and, viola, close but no cigar.
Eh we beat the pats at home this year — pederson not living up to the hype …
probably wrote it yesterday, just needed to fill in a couple of blanks and bam, done.
no eagle wr’s make that catch, cept maybe papale
How many times could you say that through out the entire playoffs . . .
never thought about that, it would get old
the eagles were just in the playoffs
Same ol’ same ol.
GB has no run game at all. No WRs now either, has to be all rodgers.
to show you how down the Titans fans are re: Mularkey as HC, the front page of their fan site has an article titled “5 HC candidates the Titans should look at in 2017”.
Man, I hate the Pats, but at least Pederson can get started on bringing us the Superbowl LI Lombardi trophy.
Get to work Doug.
Basketball comment:
The Sixers might get lucky with Hinkie’s strategy considering how Billy King screwed us with his trades to Boston. They have as many lottery picks as us.
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Anyone see the game? I only saw 17 or so pts —
Just failure …. KC dropped picks, Alex Smith missed Wrs/TEs, OL couldn’t block, bad clock management…..
yes
Apparently, according to Caplan, we are going yo be a pass heavy wco next year. And say goodbye to tempo. Say what you want about chip but there’s a definite place for tempo. Would have been good to see some of those concepts incorporated. Get ready for a lot of “run the damn ball Andy!”
I guess that means we’re keeping Bradford? I really liked chip’s offensive principals, i don’t see peterson beating that honestly.
The passing game was a lot of WCO route combinations.
You’d see the same pass plays with KC.
The running game may be different – how much D3FB will have to address.
As for Kelly’s approach to tempo, no other team came close to doing it.
Will we see it from time to time, hope so.
What does that mean for our stone-handed running backs?
Difficult to believe Caplan has that info when we dont even know who the QB will be yet.
Clinton Dix — just one spot away….
Still hurts.
NFL.com’s Ian Rapoport reports Eagles QBs coach Ryan Day is expected to join Chip Kelly’s staff in San Francisco.
Per Rapsheet, Day will either remain Kelly’s quarterbacks coach or be promoted to offensive coordinator. “Offensive coordinator” is a ceremonial title only under Kelly, who calls his own plays.
wow GB is going to be leading this game. I thought they had no chance. I don’t want them to win. They aren’t good enough to win the SB.
They won’t win in Carolina.
Lacy couldn’t get in end zone lmao. looked like a DT.
Root for the Packers. Arians is a great coach, but is an arrogant jackass.
I’m rooting for the Cards. I live in Phoenix and I’d rather be around happy people than sad people.
That’s a good attitude to have. I live in DC, and I hate these fans so I don’t take that stance. I always want the Redskins to lose. I hate the Nats. I hate the Caps. I’m tepid on the Wizards, but they have a solid team though.
To heck with that. If the Eagles don’t win and I’m in misery, I want all these people where I live(Baltimore) to be miserable too.
I hate that whole division.
Choker Palmer is back?
The more I watch this game the more I think the Panthers win it all this year.
I feel like Belichik is getting another ring, or in different terms, Brady is getting another ring.
It’s the Evil Empire, but they get results.
I’m still hoping that the Broncos can somehow knock them out.
I have to say, if Manning is the Superbowl QB, I’m going to root for him to win in his last year.
These games today are kind of emblematic of why I think it would be really hard to win anything meaningful with Sam Bradford as our franchise QB. Palmer has struggled mightily against a playoff defense and made a couple of absolutely killer mistakes despite having a great receiving corps. Conversely Rodgers, a true franchise QB, has lifted the level of play of a true garbage receiving corps against a good defense. In the earlier game Brady made big throws when he had to while Alex Smith’s inability to make big plays proved to be a liability. I think the Smith/Palmer tier is the ceiling for Bradford. You have to be perfect in every other regard to win with a guy like that.
But Bradford’s arm talent makes his ceiling high!!!!!!
What’s your plan to get Aaron Rodgers? I always loved the he’s not Tom Brady argument.
I’m not saying I have one. But I think “keep taking shots on guys until you hit on one who becomes a true franchise guy” is probably a better strategy than committing long term to a middling guy like Bradford.
So…if you miss on the once a decade guy, just wait another 10 years and hope someone doesn’t outsuck you the year when the next one is available?
Franchise guys come along more than once a decade. Just in the last five years Newton, Wilson, and Luck have entered the league. They’re not always top 5 picks either. Just have to evaluate correctly and have some luck.
Luck to be #1. Cam and Luck were both #1s.
I think Wilson has been lucky with a stellar defense and running game. He hasn’t had that at all times this year and has struggled mightily.
Wilson had a 110.3 passer rating this year. If that’s “struggling mightily” what do we call Bradford’s 86.3? The guy is legit.
Trust me, if Wilson had our receivers this year he wouldn’t have been close to that. He averages 5.4 yards per attempt. High percentage pass plays (like Bradford) with a hell of a lot less drops.
Actually 8 yards, but he’s not a downfield passer. I’m almost like Media Mike (Cam) with Wilson.
I think you’re both wrong. 🙂
🙂
He’s been there for 4 years now. Bradford’s been here 1 year, came back from a torn ACL, had many drops, pretty inexperienced receivers, starting back was bad and mis utilized, a terrible defense, the team quit on Kelly, Kelly wasn’t happy. Look at their situations.
Struggled mightily in putting up the best QB numbers in history?
142 yards 1 TD 1 INT in the first round playoff game.
Wilson is surrounded by a lot.He is a game manager with great athleticism. Luck is like Bradford, been in a bad situation. Wasn’t Indy identical to us this year?
Wilson has a great defense and running game but his receivers and offensive line are nothing special. And while he has had some bad games and been bailed out by his teammates he’s also made some incredible plays to bail them out. He is more than a game manager.
That’s what I said, we agree. You just explained it in more detail.:
He is a game manager with great athleticism.
Part of the reason I say that in addition to what you said is Seattle has run the ball a lot and set up passing with runs.
I don’t think we do agree.
To me “game manager” implies a guy who is competent in all aspects of the position and won’t get you beat but who lacks the special talent in any one area to make a game-deciding play in those 4 or 5 opportunities a game that come up. Somebody like Alex Smith or Kerry Collins.
Wilson not only has special athleticism, he has a Tarkentonian ability to improvise. At this point he’s pulled enough of those miracle plays out of his butt that it’s clearly not just luck. Guys like Smith and Collins do not make plays like that scramble/conversion he had last week against the Vikings to set up the Seahawks’ TD.
Wilson has had everything go perfectly for him so far, so I put him in your Palmer category. Every year he has a WTF? game in the playoffs that beastmode and the defense saves him from.
He’s not on the Brady/Rodgers level but he’s legitimately good.
And so is Palmer. We’re talking about great, and Wilson is on Palmer’s level, not Brady/Rodgers.
Palmer can’t make the plays Wilson can. He is a decent game manager, Wilson is a legitimate difference maker.
Actually Palmer just did to win a playoff game but I like Wilson better.
And Wilson can’t make the throws that Palmer does. Neither one has (or, IMO, can) put a team on their back in the playoffs. Wilson won a SB averaging less than 200 yds/gm passing. That tells me that he was pretty far down the list of reasons those SBs were won.
We’re probably not going to agree on this. I see Wilson as a nice QB who has ridden a historic defense and unstoppable RB to unsustainable success, similar to, but not as extreme as, Colin Kaepernick did. To be clear, Wilson is a much better QB than Kaep, but he’s benefitted massively from having one of the most talented teams in the league, filled with playmakers (albeit most of them on the defensive side), surrounding him. He’ll only win another SB if he has a similarly talented team, just like Palmer could. And, I agree that Bradford’s ceiling is Palmer. So I think Bradford could win a SB with a team around him like Seattle or AZ (which isn’t as good overall as SEA has been). I also put Newton in this category. There’s a significant step up to Brady/Rodgers/Luck.
Palmer doesn’t have the arm he used to have. I don’t think he’s an exceptional thrower at this point, and I’d rank him below Wilson in that category.
Thing is, I don’t know that Palmer can or will win a SB. If Arizona does it, it will be inspite of him and not because of it. They are the most complete team in the league but still almost lost last night because he threw two awful interceptions. If Green Bay had held on to any of the four more he almost threw they would have lost. I don’t trust him to beat two more elite teams.
You’re right: I don’t think we will agree.
Kinda maybe like being 12/21 248 with 2 tds and a back breaking int? Or tossing 4 ints and leading his team to a grand total of 7 points with 5 minutes left in the game and needing a special teams miracle (and quite a few others, BTW) to be in a position to pull out a win in a game he was absolutely brutally bad in up until that point? Is that the kind of needing your team to play perfectly for the QB to lead his team anywhere? Maybe you’re talking about winning a playoff game where the QB goes 9/18 103 0 TDs? ‘Cause to me, that’s a QB who ain’t leading nothing, he’s the anchor the rest of the team is pulling along. Which isn’t to say Wilson stinks, but let’s not pretend that he’s been any large part of that team’s success, because the truth is, he really hasn’t.
You are (a) cherry-picking Wilson’s worst games and (b) ignoring the progress he made this season. He was arguably the best QB in football over the last 8 games of the year this season, throwing to a receiving corps that nobody would call elite. I don’t think you’d find a single NFL coach or executive who’d rather have Carson Palmer than him.
Clearly we’re not going to agree though, so let’s just let it drop.
It’s not cherry-picking – it’s pointing out that he was far from putting those teams on his back throughout those playoffs; indeed, the exact opposite was true. And it looks like he’s at it again.
Can’t argue with you that so far today’s game supports your position.
Sounds like the Hinkie plan.
I want to upvote this, but I honestly gave up on the NBA over a decade ago – the whole model of that league is broken, IMO, but my opinion means even less than usual (if that’s possible) because I really just don’t follow the sport at all. But what Hinkie is doing is certainly problematic from a league marketing standpoint, because it’s just proof, to people like me, that the model is absolutely broken. And I fear the NFL is heading that way with the QB position.
Larry Fitzgerald is a beast. Great, great receiver who’s also a great teammate and doesn’t have a diva bone in his body. Would like to see him win a title before he retires.
Maybe on another team. I can’t root for Arians.
I don’t have anything against Arians. Hell of a coach. Yeah, be called out Chip Kelly, but he turned out to be right about that.
He’s a crybaby, not just about Kelly. I think that’s my problem. If I see it outside of the context of my team, it’s hard to overcome that perception.
Sam Shields with a bad case of Jenkinsitis.
Carson Palmer’s thrown about six passes that should have been intercepted in this game.
Winning in the playoffs, at least the season, seems to be about quarterbacks, o-line and d-line play, and then finally DBs.
Ours are
Good, Terrible, Average w/potential, and Okay.
We need 3/4 to be good. Preferably the QB, Oline, and Dline if I had to choose.
I’m a Bradford fan, so I won’t talk about that much.
We need at least two new OL. If we go back to 4-3, I think we need one DE. I think Rowe is going to be a stud, we need someone on the other side. I’d add a physical player in one of the S spots too.
Look at McCarthy’s play list. The size of an IHOP menu.
Chip Kelly’s? Slightly bigger than a health insurance card.
I was bothered by the smaller play list. It seemed to decrease each year.
Dumbed down for Bradford, too.
Not sure what that meant, because there were so few place to begin with.
This is an interesting point. So that raises the question (and fairly):
Is Bradford not able to handle a larger playbook and/or not able to process a lot of different plays?
At least he looked very comfortable in last game and in second half of season.. He knows some WCO. Pederson will be more like Shurmur than Chip just because of this:
Bradford said he felt more comfortable going under center in that game, and was given more freedom to change plays at the line when he felt he should. Shurmur’s more traditional pace, also, aided the Eagles in forming a consistent offensive game plan.
If only they were allowed to play slower for more of the season — and not force their defense to play against the NFL’s most snaps — Bradford and the fragile offense could have progressed more than they had. Their quarterback did noticeably improve down the stretch, something he says he owes to their bye week.
And some time to unscramble his brain.
“The longer I was out there, the more comfortable I became,” Bradford said. “It just took a little longer than I’d hoped to get to that level. Earlier in the season, I missed throws that I was not accustomed to missing. It seems like after the bye, everything came back to me. Everything slowed down. I played the way I knew I could play.”
http://phi.247sports.com/Bolt/Sam-Bradford-would-love-to-play-for-Shurmur-42569791
I’m one of the few people on this board that is a Bradford fan. I think he’s legit. A better OL, and I think we are an 11 win team.
Or, better OL play. Maybe what we have is good enough, but we’ll find out what they think they need by the draft.
Is Bradford known to be an intelligent QB?
That’s game. Cardinals are fricking lucky.
Guess Arians won’t be complaining about the refs after this game
Everyone else will be though. They are godawful. They’ve blown 3 potentially game deciding calls in the last 2 minutes.
WOW!!!!
WOW!!!!!!!
Aaron Rodgers is incredible.
Those kinds of plays, among others, are when replay makes football antiseptic.
I understand what you are saying, but what about in the scenario where that is NOT a catch. Can’t have a game being decided by such critical calls being called incorrectly
There’s a new thread up if you guys didn’t know
Al Michaels has way too much to say about everything
And rarely it’s insightful.
That was cool good for Fitz!
arians sounds like hes almost about to cry in the PC