Week 3 OTA Roundup
Posted: June 5th, 2017 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 92 Comments »
There was another practice session open to the media so let’s see what the local writers had to say about the Eagles.
Carson Wentz was up and down today. Early in practice, he had a really nice play when he stepped up in the pocket to avoid the rush, then moved to his left and threw the ball on the run deep down the field complete to Alshon Jeffery. He also had good, strong throws to Torrey Smith on the sideline, and in between a few defenders to Nelson Agholor.
Wentz also had his bad moments, throwing his share of inaccurate passes. His lowlight on the day was a badly overthrown pass outside the hash on the left side of the field that was easily picked off by Jaylen Watkins.
It would be great if Wentz looked like Tom Brady out there, just throwing perfect pass after perfect pass. That’s just not reality. He’s a young player adjusting to new receivers and working on his mechanics. There are going to be ups and downs. This is the time of year for him to work through those issues. It is good that Wentz does seem to make a highlight play or two at every practice. The talent is there.
Can a new assistant coach really make a difference?
Mike Groh was getting on the receivers most of the day. During drills, he had the following exchange with rookie UDFA (and converted quarterback) Greg Ward:
Groh: “Look at where you are!”
Ward: (Looks down, realizes he’s lined up offsides and moves back)
Groh: “Is this press?!?”
Ward: “Yeah.”
Groh: “Is this press?!?!?!”
Ward: “Yeah.”
Groh: “Then why are you bent over like that?”
Ward: (Gets into better position to fend off press coverage).
There’s a lot of that going on with Groh. He seems very detail oriented and doesn’t let his players get away with getting those details wrong.
I love that nugget. A good coach sees everything and is trying to teach his players to focus on the details. Greg Ward is a UDFA who played QB last year at Houston. There is every reason that Groh could be easy on him to try and build the young guy’s confidence. The heck with that. Groh is going to push his players to do their job well. It doesn’t matter if that’s the Pro Bowl receiver or the UDFA rookie. Groh has high expectations for his players and he is pushing them. This group could have used that last year, but better late than never.
Speaking of rookies…
A number of you have asked about Nate Gerry. He picked off a Nick Foles throw intended for Byron Marshall. Gerry played safety at Nebraska, but the Eagles have moved him to linebacker. The question likely won’t be whether or not he can cover well enough on the pro level from his linebacker spot. It will be whether he can hold up physically as a linebacker at 218 pounds. Today, he showed good instincts in coverage, as you might expect from a former safety.
Gerry needs to learn the defense now. The real test for him will be when there is live hitting and tackling in August. Playing LB isn’t foreign to him. Playing in the box isn’t foreign to him. Going up against NFL blockers is a whole other story.
***
Next up is Jeff McLane. Real good stuff from Jeff today. More on Wentz and his up and down play.
It’s important to note that the media have been given access to only three of seven OTAs thus far. So I can’t write a comprehensive account of how the Eagles have looked the last three weeks, or make blanket statements about individual players. Carson Wentz, I thought, looked sharp on May 23. He was shaky last Tuesday, but it rained almost the entire practice and there are still many kinks to work out between the quarterback and his new receivers. He was more precise Monday, although there were some poor throws as the day progressed. Not to go all Jim Schwartz on you, but to steal one of the defensive coordinator’s recent anecdotes, Wentz right now is like a pitcher working on a new breaking ball in spring training. He’s going to get tagged for a few home runs, but it doesn’t matter until the bullets start flying, or at least until training camp and the preseason. Wentz did provide his usual one “wow” moment per practice when he hooked up with receiver Alshon Jeffery on a deep pass. With his first few reads covered and the pocket collapsing, Wentz escaped to his left and found Jeffery streaking down the middle. I’m not sure if the receiver broke off his original route, but the safeties were late to react. Wentz then threw across his body some 30 yards downfield just as Jeffery got behind the secondary. The pass was slightly underthrown, but it didn’t matter. Jeffery was open, and Wentz did all he needed to do.
Here is your Nelson Agholor update.
Two plays into practice and Nelson Agholor had his first drop. The much-maligned receiver had done a pretty good of securing the ball during the first two open practices, and he was pretty much solid the rest of the way on this one. But holding onto the ball has obviously been an issue for Agholor. He knows it. Inside his locker stall, he’s set up an eraser board that logs how many drops he’s had each practice. The maximum number so far was two.
Agholor isn’t suddenly a fixed player. He’s not headed for the Pro Bowl. But for the first time in his young career it really feels like is headed in the right direction. Agholor hit rock bottom last year. He couldn’t even line up right. Now he’s catching the ball and playing with more confidence. The more we hear of this, the better. Agholor can be a valuable role player. Chances are some WR will miss a game this year. Jordan Matthews is dinged up right now. Agholor has the size, speed and skills to play any spot. He just has to show he can be reliable. So far he’s doing that. The real story will be when Agholor does something right and nobody notices, because it is no longer a big deal.
Some OL talk.
Allen Barbre returned to practice after missing most of the previous two weeks with a calf strain. He did some early work with the first team at left guard during the install period, but Isaac Seumalo was back with the starters during team drills. Doug Pederson said two weeks ago that Seumalo would start off ahead of Barbre and it appears as if it remains that way, but several reserves have been getting first-team repetitions. Stefen Wisniewski took some snaps at center ahead of Jason Kelce, and also at left guard. Chance Warmack was in at both guard spots. The Eagles tried to add offensive-line depth this offseason. You can never have enough starting-caliber linemen.
Smart to mix the players up. That helps the backups to stay focused and also lets different combinations get used to each other. I think it also helps with the sense of competition. Coaches can say every job is open, but if the same guy takes reps at a spot all spring and summer, that makes it feel like there isn’t any competition. Mix things up and the backups feel like they have a chance, even if they really don’t.
***
Tim McManus wrote a good piece on Torrey Smith and Wentz trying to form a reliable long distance connection. Tim also has some good practice notes in there.
Alshon Jeffery making it look easy. pic.twitter.com/20yqCLs2sr
— Tim McManus (@Tim_McManus) June 5, 2017
Eagles DT Tim Jernigan slow to get up, limps off field after falling to ground during team drills.
— Tim McManus (@Tim_McManus) June 5, 2017
You never want players getting hurt, but this is the time of year to have a simple injury like that.
***
Les Bowen posted a good piece on the WRs and Wentz.
It was exactly the kind of thing the Eagles have in mind for the 2017 season: Carson Wentz scrambling, drifting left, looking, finding Alshon Jeffery way downfield in the end zone.
“He gets the ball to you. Has a big arm. He made a throw today, off his back foot, deep ball post on a scramble drill,” Hollins recalled.
Les talks about the developing relationship between Wentz and his receivers. There are good notes in there on how Torrey Smith doesn’t always look back on deep routes and that is something Wentz has to adjust to. There is a different version of “open” for each receiver. It takes time for the QB and his targets to get on the same page.
This group needs reps, reps and more reps. Good stuff in there on rookie Mack Hollins as well.
***
Brandon Lee Gowton is up next.
• Derek Barnett exploded into the backfield and batted down a Matt McGloin pass. The first round rookie continues to impress.
• Mike Groh refers to Mack Hollins as “Tar Heel.” I’m partial to my nickname for him: “The Gloveless Wonder.”
• Speaking of Hollins, he had a rare drop today. The pass from Foles was thrown a little behind him though.
• Drops are not so rare for Shelton Gibson. The rookie wide receiver has dealt with a number of those during these spring practices.
BLG also has plenty of thoughts on Wentz and the receivers. After the way those guys played last year, that is going to be the topic everyone focuses on.
***
We can’t forget the guys at PE.com. You should pretty much be legally required to read everything Fran Duffy writes.
2. I spent the individual drills with the receivers, and Alshon Jeffery made a one-handed grab look easy, darting past bags simulating a press corner before stabbing his right hand out to snag a pass away from his frame in the blink of an eye. – FD
3. In the first team period of the afternoon, rookie Derek Barnett came up short in his pursuit of the quarterback, but got his hands up and knocked a pass up in the air that was nearly intercepted in the secondary. – FD
6. Second-year cornerback C.J. Smith made an acrobatic interception downfield of quarterback Matt McGloin. Smith has earned praise from coaches and teammates since last summer, and the former undrafted free agent will likely be counted on to play a pretty significant role in the secondary this fall. – FD
7. While we’re on the topic of undrafted free agents, a couple of others stood out today as well. Running back Corey Clement had a nice run to end a scrimmage period toward the end of practice, as the bigger back looked smooth on his way to finding a cutback lane. Former quarterback-turned-receiver Greg Ward once again flashed soft hands and quickness in and out of breaks during individual drills and then made an outstanding grab in a team period later in the day where he accidentally collided with a teammate at the catch point but still came away with the football. – FD
I’m curious to see what Smith does this year. He played well last summer. There is more competition now, but he’s older and wiser. Can he win a roster spot? Will he have a role on the defense? Fran seems to think so and that’s good to hear.
Love all the positive comments on Barnett, whether big or little things. I think the Eagles made a pretty smart pick.
_
Did anyone else catch this article from Bob Ford?? While speaking about the 2 WR’s we signed in FA he wrote that “So, yes, the Eagles had to go out and find receivers and that’s what they did. Jeffery will likely be gone after this season, no matter what, but it is Smith who could stick around ” WTH? Did I miss something? He basically said AJ will not be back after this year. I thought that was completely off base and without merit. Please read it yourself. Maybe I am reading something out of context, but I think that statement made no sense to me.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/Eagles_Torrey_Smith_comes_home_to_a_new_place___Bob_Ford.html?utm_campaign=Daily+News+Twitter+Account&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=social&cid=Daily+News+Twitter+Account
youre right… its off base and without merit
Either he sucks this year and we won’t resign him, or he doesn’t suck this year and is going to cost. Then it’s just a matter of numbers.
Luckily, the franchise tag exists.
Given we hope that Alshon is a 96-1400-12 type WR over 16 games; he’ll likely be in line for a 5 year / $80+ contract given the current WR market. Perhaps we’re not in that market.
I hope that the FO is prepared to pay him if he has a monster season else why sign him to a 1 year deal?
Help Wentz out while we find other solutions.
I imagine we’ll find a way to keep him if he really lights it up for us.
If Jeffery has a monster season I sure hope they keep him. Last 2 years were brutal with that horrible WR play. But: 5 year/80m would sure be good for the comp pick equation. If we lose him, the more money the better. That’s why we should root for a great season from him. There’s no downside for the Eagles.
And since we have so many FA, we could still sign one or two and get comp picks.
Franchise tag is entirely out of your consideration?
Bad writers gotta have something to bitch about
This time of year, even the good writers have to find something, anything to write about.
Bad writers don’t know about Howie’s long-game vis-a-vis compensatory draft picks! *ducks*
Protip: ignore philly.com sports writers. Always. Period
Probably becasue everybody is expecting AJ to get a huge payday next year if he has a good season and the Eagles may not want to pony up the big $$$ to pay him. We’ll have to see how he plays and how the cap looks next year.
there’s nothing saying he’ll “likely” stay …nobody knows…
I’ve seen the Bob Ford article linked on three different sites today, all over that same line.
Bob obviously doesn’t mind trading his credibility for a few hits. Looks like he got what he wanted.
Alson is legit!! Glad to hear torrey smith is doing something!!
Play the game of substitute Alshon for DGB with no other changes this year, and the Eagles are immediately better by a lot.
I did the same using Trash Can instead of Alshon. Brings the team to 8-8.
A trash can with the lid on it still makes more catches than DGB.
Works with Agholar too. At least Trash Can is always lined up properly.
Is Jordan Matthews’ knee injury more than they’re letting on? I can’t believe he’d be missing drills if it was just pain management issue.
Its only OTAs. Why risk it now
He’s a veteran player and they have a lot of new guys to work in. If he’s not practicing in Week One of the season, then there’s something up.
It’s early June. You’re reading WAY too much into this.
Well I haven’t read ANYTHING about him other than the tendinitis issue keeping him out of OTAs. Pretty vague stuff for a guy who’s led the team in targets since he’s been here.
He injured his knee in the preseason and dealt with it all last season. I was thinking about the same thing as maybe his knee injury is more serious than they let on last year.
This might be a stupid question but I don’t follow college football much, so I’m not very knowledgeable on the transition players go through when they arrive in the NFL. I’m wondering why it seems so necessary for Wentz to work on his mechanics? Shouldn’t a qb, any qb, who played in high school and college, who showed enough potential to be drafted, come into the pros already proficient in the basic, foundation level skill sets of his position?
Just my opinion, but I think every single QB in NFL history (save for a few exceptions) was still working on mechanics into the early parts of their second NFL season.
Sure they worked on it before, but Tiger Woods was working on his mechanics deep into his career (different sport, sure, but you get the point – hopefully).
I think Tom Brady is working on his mechanics this off season too. They all do.
A QB is done working on his mechanics when her retires.
The Philly Media is overdoing the talk about this by 10000000000%
10000000000000% with you.
I’ll add that the physical growth between 18 year old stand out athlete and a 23 year old professional QB is, alone, enough to account for adjustments to throwing motion. It’s beyond that, of course, but still a factor.
Look at baseball. Roy Halladay spent his whole career trying to perfect his delivery.
You’re point about physical maturation is excellent, something I hadn’t considered.
I’m glad you brought up Doc, one of my all-time favorite Philly athletes. I remember telling my then 8 year-old son to get out of the bathtub and watch the historic 9th inning of his playoff no-hitter.
I’ve never heard of Tom Brady having a mechanical flaw. That he continues to work on the basics, 20 years in, is a function of his obsessiveness (and media coverage: everyone practices!).
Tiger came into the pro game with a great swing, but some years in, he broke it down and reworked it. That turned out to be a terrible decision. Maybe it wasn’t the cause of his decline, but it certainly never played out and he never captured his former skill.
I think you are
a: taking what the media feeds you as written in stone
and
b: oversimplifying
Brett Farve would sail some balls throughout his HOF career. And nobody said “he had a mechanical flaw”.
People don’t have mechanical flaws. Machinery might.
Farve sailed a ton of balls. He has the most interceptions of any NFL qb by a mile. The sportswriters loved him but I thought the “Ol’ gunslinger” idea was a bunch of bs.
Fair enough.
Moving on from extreme examples, Drew Brees, Payton Manning, Aaron Rogers – etc… ALL have occasional mis-throws.
But Carson? He’s got ISSUES?
Your point is well made. I’ve got to imagine the Eagles brass did enough research to conclude that Carson’s problems were coachable, and would not prevent NFL success. In Eaglesville fandom, however, the sky is always falling.
Agreed. Well put.
Keyword: occasional.
HOFer Brett Favre did miss quite a few passes throughout his long career scattered among the many lasers, spectacular plays, TDs, playoff appearances, and Superbowl win. 2nd year player Carson Wentz, coming off a 79 QB rating, has shown a tendency to sail balls in his very short career. If it turns into an interception every game or two, it could be his undoing. Or this could be one of those things we dig up ten years later, when he’s by far the best Qb in the league, and the hoi polloi opine that he came into the league as a perfect ultimate weapon.
In the microscope of fandom, we’ll always focus on those supercritically until he stops doing it, maybe brings home a trophy or two.
It’s “hypercritically”, not “supercritically” – I’m only harping on the details because I’m such a big fan of yours.
Good catch, my man!
Tom Brady’s flaw when he came into the league was that he… was… so… slow. Belichick said he did everything slowly.
Nope. ChoTime knows that he was a perfect QB the day he graduated Michigan, and was also perfect after his rookie NFL season.
hahaha… love it.
I only throw at you because I know you can hang – even if I’m throwing at the dirt in front of your feet.
Because he has a mechanical flaw. In college, he and his team were talented enough so that it didn’t matter much. Now, he’ll be under much more pressure, throwing into smaller windows, at a faster pace. So the flaw will be exposed more often. He’s going to have to correct the issue and drill it to the point where he can rely on it under duress, to a near-instinctual level.
5 also had mechanical flaws which impaired his accuracy. Foles has his footwork issues. Tebow never learned to consistently throw an NFL ball.
If Wentz is flinging it two yards high in practice, he surely will do so in live action. Hopefully, he’ll manage to correct the flaw and cut down on the prevalence of this error. His particular issue unfortunately tends to end up in the other team catching it. We might be pining for Donnie’s worm-burners in a few seasons.
McNabb said something recently about his under-throws were better than interceptions.
Which is not incorrect…
And he is right. So I always gave him some slack on those. But he also never really worked on some of his flaws that led him to overcorrect and throw consistently low out of fear. That’s why his career fell off a cliff at a time when other QBs played good ball well into their thirties; he didn’t put in the work to improve his skills as his athletic talents began to erode.
I gave him a ton of slack on those throws into the field, but it did drive me crazy when he’d hit Westy on the foot coming out of the backfield.
No doubt. It’s the best place to miss.
AR said that at the time too.
Guys can get by on physical gifts at the lower levels. They can get away with more bad habits. Wrs are often a lot more open at those levels too.
Pro QBs need to fit balls in tighter spaces and more precise ball placement. Thats where the extra work comes into play.
Also QBs dont always get clean pockets to set up perfect throws. All the extra work is to build muscle memory so Wentz has a “proper” throwing motion without having to think about it.
I’d propose that no one can succeed in competitive sports without fairly significant physical gifts. My question is more: Why didn’t Carson’s earlier coaches help train him out of his mechanical flaws?
Maybe there wasn’t a reason to. He could do what they needed him to do/
You’re right. In college and minor league baseball, from what I understand, the coaches spend a lot of time on mechanics with pitchers because, otherwise, the guys will blow out their arms. Different situation with qbs.
This is a great read by Robert Klemko from last year when Wentz was selected on How Quarterbacks Are Made. It gave me insight I never even thought about before.
http://mmqb.si.com/0mmqb/2016/05/11/nfl-draft-quarterbacks-how-modern-qbs-are-made-jared-goff-carson-wentz#
Wow. That’s a great article.
This is a great read. Thanks. It confirmed some things I had sort of suspected, and provided a perspective I’ve never heard detailed before. Thanks, again.
They were more concerned with winning games than preparing Carson to be successful at the next level. His mechanics were good enough to win games at that level. Adjusting his mechanics may have caused a temporary regression in performance, which, in the mind of past coaches, was unnecessary as the flawed mechanics were good enough for their purposes.
It’s the same reason athletically talented QBs tend to dominate the college game, and rarely translate well to the pros.
Great point.
They didn’t care.
He is.
The mechanical tweaks are about shortening his release, his elbow positioning and not overstriding. It’s really more about tweaks than a full rebuild of the throwing motion. It’s not Tebow level.
All players have technical deficiencies coming out of school.
Good insight, thanks. It’s fascinating how athletes must continually improve their skills in order to compete and excel.
Indeed.
Another example is Derek Barnett. He’s a fine pass rusher but is underdeveloped. He didn’t have to learn a full bevy of pass rush moves and frankly coaches didn’t have time to work with him individually.
In college you’ve only got 15 spring practices and about 30 fall camp practices. Not all of them are fully padded. You only really get technique instruction during individual segment of practice and 1on1 (warmup, indy, inside, 1v1, team, conditioning)
Most the time is making sure guys understand the scheme and gameplan and run fits. Especially once a guy is a realiable pass rusher they tend not to get a ton more individual attention from coaches.
If you’re lucky your have 2 DL coaches and a GA. The coaches don’t really have time to stay after practice and help because they’ve got to get to meetings and recruit (also they aren’t really allowed to go beyond set time limits). The poor GA is locked in a closet somewhere breaking down film 18 hours a day and still trying to pursue a bullshit masters in physical education. Plus he’s a 24 year old. Those three have to work with 20 guys.
Fortunately football is one sport where you can develop technical skills later. It’s not like soccer where after the age of 16 or 17 you’re pretty much done developing your first touch. Or basketball where a 22 year old with no handle is never going to get one.
This is great stuff, D3. Thanks. Makes perfect sense, especially comparing football to other sports.
Nate Gerry, a former safety converted to linebacker.
URLAKKER!!!!!111
(remember the old PhiladelphiaEagles.com forums?)
I remember the forum and the calls for Urlacher. Even more, I remember reading the posts of goeagles99 (did I get that right?) and thinking, “Wow, this guy knows his stuff.”
I haven’t been on the PE forum in years and sometimes I wonder if I’ve missed out/ I am missing out on reading the posts of another GE99, Iskar, et al
Yea, but there’s so much crap to wade through. I read BGN, the headlines off Philly Sports, and try and stay current with Kempski, but it’s Iggle Blitz that feeds my Eagles jones.
Another one was Phillyfreak54. I remember he used to post daily updates on what was going on at eagles TC. That’s kind of how I ended up finding my way to Tommy’s stuff.
It was URLAKKERZZZZZ.
That is just terrible.
Mack 10??
That’s what I call my hand too…
For a WR and given his ability to get both feet down inbounds(and also as a play off of the nickname by Groh and his alma mater) – Toe Heel. lol
Re: 82
Yes I trashed all philly.com writers and I’m about to quote stuff. Truth is, Bob Ford is generally above that crowd, and alas, I am contradicting myself…
From Bob Ford’s philly.com article on Torrey Smith: (all player quotes)
“Time and place is the key to anybody’s career, whether at the beginning or the end,” Smith said. “You see guys get written off and then they go to a new situation and all of a sudden are playing out of their minds. People think it’s rocket science. No, it just the situation.”
“My wife’s from Conshohocken and I’ve been here a lot over the years,” Smith said. “It’s kind of weird living here now. It’s good that our kids get to see their grandparents more and you have baby-sitters, so that’s nice. I knew this is the best place for me football-wise, and I knew that for my family this was the best spot for her. That definitely made the decision a lot easier.”
“Now if I drop a pass, they’ll probably boo me,” Smith said.
I think he will play well, and stay here a while, and become a general good vet for us. I think he still has speed and is savvy, and with good team around him, will perform well. There will be moments of poor play, and fan vitriol, but I think he’ll be a very good piece for a few years.
Philly connection motivation (wife and kids matter a lot), some maturity, and he seems like a Barwin-esque(lite?) type of guy…
But then again, there are some haters who already want him cut and know he’ll suck…
I enjoy following him on Twitter as well. Not afraid to share his opinions and interact with fans, but in a well-spoken and intelligent way.
Since we’re discussing Torrey. Having lost my little brother the same year, I was really drawn to him and how well he was able to handle the situation. Even easier to pull for him now that he’s an Eagle!!
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000065281/article/torrey-smith-grabs-tds-for-ravens-after-brother-dies
Sorry to hear that.
He was a huge Eagle fan too! Usually the first one I’d call or text with all the Eagle breaking news! I hope we can win him and all our other fallen birds a championship soon!! #Birdgang!
A – f-ing MEN
Sorry about your loss.
Appreciate it man.
Have we won the Super Bowl yet?!
You’re back! Hope everything went awesomely.
Oh, and to put it Blountly, sort of.
I see what you did there!
It was more than awesomely. Just the perfect dream wedding and holiday.
Most excellent. Cheers
Nice work Tommy. Even though this is a roundup piece, its nice to see what everyone is saying with your input as well.
David Harris cut. I think he could still get a starting gig somewhere, otherwise would be great veteran depth at ILB.
He was always a thumper and he’s 33. I don’t think he’s got the range to play in our defense. We don’t really need Tulloch 2.0.