Dangerous Doug
Posted: September 27th, 2017 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 199 Comments »
Coach, who is going to be the left guard this week?
“We prepare all our guys to be starters.”
It looked like Wiz played pretty well. Talk about him as the possible starter.
“Yeah, Wiz did some great things. So did Chance. And Isaac too, even though he didn’t play. Still a great game.”
We get that you like all three, but don’t you have to choose one?
“Who says anyone has to start? Maybe we go with no left guard. Our analytics people say that 18 percent of the time the left guard has no impact on the play whatsoever. Then again, maybe I’ll start all three at left guard. What would you call that? 11 personnel is one running back and one tight end. Maybe we’ll call that 900 personnel since you have three 300 pound guys at one spot.”
You don’t think naming one starter is important for chemistry?
“Guys, listen…I’m not going to announce our plans to the Chargers. Let’s move on.”
Doug Pederson is in his second year as coach. He’s trying to figure out who he is. We’re trying to figure out who he is. When he tries to be coy about who will start in a given week, he’s stealing from the Bill Belichick playbook. The way he praises players and always takes the blame is pure Andy Reid. The way he relates to players as the likable uncle more than the traditional boss or father figure comes across as a bit of Pete Carroll.
What about going for it on 4th downs?
That is Chip Kelly, the Oregon version. Or Hal Mumme, for those of you who are serious football fans. Pederson is an aggressive playcaller. We see that with how often he wants to go deep. It is driving him crazy that his star QB and the improved receiving corps can’t connect right now. Pederson wants those chunk plays. He wants a 50-yard TD pass more than I want to be stranded on Pudding Island with Megan Fox.
The deep balls aren’t working yet, but Pederson keeps calling them and that’s not going to stop. He played behind Dan Marino and Brett Favre. He knows the value of the bomb.
Pederson is aggressive with going for it on 4th down. This is a good thing, even if there are going to be some bad moments. Too many coaches have the mindset that more games are lost than won, meaning the team that avoids mistakes is most likely to win. That is true to a certain extent, but you can’t play with that mentality. You have to play to win, to borrow a line from the great Herm Edwards.
Think about onside kicks. When they are random, the success rate is close to 50 percent. When teams know they’re coming, that goes down substantially. You can’t wait until you’re desperate to take chances. You can’t wait until things are safe. A fake punt at the opponents 40-yard line isn’t going to be as effective as one at your 20-yard line.
Of course, Doug would go for it on their 40, so I guess any fake punt discussion is irrelevant.
I wasn’t a huge fan of going for it on 4th and 8 on Sunday, but I would rather have a coach that is too aggressive than one who is too conservative. Part of the thinking there is to establish a mentality in your team that you expect to convert on 4th down. Going for it on 4th down becomes a weapon rather than a random gamble. A lot of teams look nervous on 4th down. The more you go for it, the more comfortable the players will be.
You do have to accept the fact there will be failures. There are going to be times when you turn the ball over to the other team and they go score points. You don’t get the reward without some of the risk.
Pederson isn’t going to just listen to the numbers from the analytics staff and make a decision purely off that. He has to consider field position, the way his offense is playing, the way his defense is playing, the score of the game, the feel of the game, which players are on the field and several other variables. 4th down decisions have to be a mixture of stats and instincts.
You should be happy that a young coach like Doug without a ton of goodwill built up in his coaching account is willing to take chances.
Ben McAdoo punted from the Eagles 41 and the Eagles 38-yard line. The coach of an 0-2 team on the road had chances to be aggressive and instead punted the ball away to play defense. The Giants dominated the field position battle in the first half and had nothing to show for it.
I would rather have Doug rolling the dice once too often than a coach who was hesitant to roll the dice.
*****
Jimmy Bama also approves of Doug’s aggressive coaching style.
Does Doug approve of Jimmy’s aggressive writing style?
*****
#Eagles have signed RB Kenjon Barner to a one-year contract.
— Jeff McLane (@Jeff_McLane) September 26, 2017
Serendipitous that Barner spent the preseason with the Chargers who just happen to be hosting the Eagles this week…
— Les Bowen (@LesBowen) September 26, 2017
Eagles now have LeGarrette Blount and Kenjon Barner in the same backfield. Must be Chip’s Oregon bias…
— Zach Berman (@ZBerm) September 26, 2017
This move actually makes a lot of sense. Barner knows the offense. He has a similar type of skill set to Darren Sproles. Barner also can return punts and KOs.
Barner has always been a guy that flashed when he got to play, but never got many touches.
I re-watched the 2016 opener this summer and was surprised to see how much and how well he played in that game. He had 4 carries for 42 yards. He was 8-42 against the Steelers in Week 3. Go back to 2015 and you can see him in action.
Shot 2 – Outside Zone was also very effective for #Eagles – Kenjon Barner goes for 19 yards on this play. pic.twitter.com/Kfo5WrfUoc
— Fran Duffy (@fduffy3) December 8, 2015
Barner has good speed. He isn’t special in any way, but can be an effective part of a good RB rotation.
_
Just thought I’d share this for those who haven’t seen it – they are REALLY struggling on offense over in Seattle.
https://twitter.com/ShaunOHara60/status/912372456245141504
i forget, is barner good on PR??
because we def need a PR
I love how Doug has the balls to go for it on 4th downs but I don’t love when he doesn’t think his decision all the way through. Like Tommy said, you have to consider EVERYTHING when you’re taking a risk on that 4th and 8. I wouldn’t care if we’re up 27 points and he did that since the odds are still in our favor. Still, it’s better to have the guts than none (see spineless Chip Kelly).
Doug cited win probability which takes almost everything into account (including the spread as it has shown to matter). Also at the time, the defense was dominating and the offense was moving the ball almost at will
To both of you, I and A, it’s kind of funny that Kelly, with all of his bluster and bravado, often punted (figuratively and literally) in situations with the first down markers much closer than on Sunday. Mild mannered DP, on the other hand, does the opposite.
I have always preferred that coaching/managing style with any professional team I root for, no matter the sport. I also think it sends a message to the players about confidence in their abilities.
I have often said the same. Its funny how Chip Kelly went from been super aggressive in college to the most conservative in the NFL
He started off aggressive, but failed more often than succeeded and appeared to make a concerted effort to go conservative from then on.
Maybe Laurie is telling Doug to do the exact opposite of Chip. Like telling him “Dont get smart with the media.”
One of the things I would consider on 4th and 8 is that my defense was owning the Giants souls up to that point in the game.
The ‘odds’ you are talking about here makes little sense. People still don’t seem to understand that the reason for going for it is that there is actually something very valuable to be gained from it in stead of only focusing on what there is to be lost. Look, only going for it when you are up 27 points is the opposite of what you should be doing. Or rather, it would be pointless if you think that you are going to win regardless of wether you succeed or not. The decision to be aggressive becomes more and more relevant as the game situation indicates that you need to score points in order to flip the script and gain an advantage that the other team will be unable to overcome. Why is that? It is because, according to the ODDS, going for it on 4th. down at certain places on the field will grant you, on average, a positive expected point differential compared to not going for it. But it also increases variance, since both outcomes (succeed or fail) makes it more likely that one of the two teams will score as an outcome of the play. In other words, you should go for it when the odds are in your favor AND you assess that you still need to score points in order to win. As it turned out, Doug was right in thinking that they needed to score more points in the game.
Everyone should check out the research on Loss Aversion.
Absolutely. I only know it primarily from game theory, but we can summarize the short verion here: Our primitive brains are wired to react with more emotional energy to a loss than to an equal gain. Put most bluntly, if you are a normal person and you find a 100 dollar bill on the street only to have it fly out of your hand the next minute and disappear in the wind, chances are you will come out of that experience feeling very strongly that you just lost something even though you end up the same place. (This mechanism explains, among others, the foundation behind gambling addiction as well as the universal reason for why winning the lottery won’t guarantee you true happiness.) From a evolutionary standpoint this is because our big brains originally developed a tendency to grant the feeling of losing something a much higher neurological priority than the joy of winning it. Along with our ability to imagine future outcomes of complex chains of reactions this allowed us to plan ahead in order to avoid starvation or freeze to death or being enslaved by the neighbourghood tribe. Anyway, the point is we are neurologically primed to have a strong bias towards avoiding a loss in stead of gaining a favor. Which is why people feel truly upset about going on it on fourth down even when it wins you more games than it loses you. It simply hurts the brain more.
Great explanation!
Why are you assuming that I’m only for it when we have a cushy lead? 14-0 in many situations is not the safest lead at all. I don’t trust the odds anymore, I would much rather blow out the opposing team instead of playing safe. When you have such a chaotic sport, numbers/simulations/theories all go out the window. The Falcons implosion to the Patriots, Miracle in the Meadowlands 2, and etc. Need I say more?
My biggest issue with DP when he goes for it on longer than 4th & 2 is that he never seems to have thought it through ahead of time. If he feels we are at the part of the field or it’s the right time in the game to put us in 4 down situations, I just wish he would make the decision earlier. His 3rd down play calling in those situations could improve the outcomes on 4th down.
Example: 3rd & 6. It’s a clear passing down. If he plans to go for it on 4th anyway why not run a draw. Pick up some cheap yards and make it a higher percentage 4th down conversion.
So I was continuing my closer looks at college RBs. On deck today was Jordan Scarlett from Florida. After watching the breakdowns on him, this was the first result on google “UF star Antonio Callaway, Jordan Scarlett among nine Gators facing felony fraud allegations”. Well that was a waste of time.
oh kids these days
I can’t remember the last time we ran a fake punt/fg.
I can. It was when Dawkins returned the punt fake to the house. Funny enough it was against the Chargers..
Successfully, maybe. I remember Chip calling a fake punt where the punter threw a 4 yard pass at a wide open guy 7 yards away.
The last I remember was against the Texans. Brian Mitchell hit him with a shovel pass. Are you sure you aren’t thinking of that one?
You are right. It was the Texans!
we had the “swinging gate” fake XP in the chip era. that was the beginning of the end of big balls chip
I’m not sure if Chip ever took a risk again. Have to make sure the players can be blamed and not him.
I love that Doug has done the research and knows when the math favors going for it and when it doesn’t. I love that his mentality is to make the calls that increase his chances of winning the game and not the ones that will insulate him from criticism. I love that he doesn’t care what the fans think. I may not always like the results (with Sunday being an example) but the process is smart. This is fearless and truly innovative coaching of the sort you normally only see from the Bill Belichicks and Gregg Popoviches of the sports world and I think the image that some fans have of Doug as a clueless goober is obscuring that fact. There’s a solid thought process behind what he’s doing and I love it.
Barner is a good signing. Obviously he’s not in Sproles’ league talentwise but he’s a similar type of player and he knows the offense. He should be able to come in and be a productive contributor.
Me too with all your points, x.
CK was a huge believer in those numbers too. Eagles are 1 of 32 teams with an analytics department..Just because other coaches don’t spew pre-determined numbers as answers doesn’t mean other coaches aren’t using the same data…2-1, using longest field goal in the history of the team and we’re using Pederson in the same sentence as BB? I may be overreacting(a tad) in my opinion of him – but let’s take it easy on the other end of the spectrum.
Every team has access to analytics, but not every team uses them. The NYT bot exists *because* teams almost never played by the numbers. Bill O’Brien lost to the Patriots this week because he kicked a field goal when he should have gone for the 4th down. And it’s not just 4th downs. How many times have you heard of a team going off their draft board to pick a player they “liked”? How many times have they ignored the value of picks in regards to trading up and down? How many times have they tried to move a team to LA already?
I agree – but I don’t know your point…you saying you like it because he IS following the numbers? Numbers are great. A fault of mine because I following them too much in fantasy football….
I’m saying that stats and analytics are only useful if:
1. The data is accurate
2. You have people that can interpret it correctly and can develop strategies from it that will benefit the organization
3. Your organization commits to using the developed strategies
I’d say every team is operating at level 1. Most are level 2. Almost none of them are at 3.
If Doug starts wearing hoddies with the sleeves cut-off, and somebody mentioned that it’s what belicheat does, would that person be saying that Doug is as good as a coach as him? Hell no.
Who is saying Doug is a great or even good coach?
when you’re comparing him to two other great coaches, you are saying he’s great…
I’ve seen this “logic” before and it REALLY grinds my gears.
That statement being logical absolutely relies on a failure to correctly understand and use the word “comparison”.
Our president and OBJ have something in common in terms of their un-naturally altered hair appearance. Does that mean that their politics are the same or their business savy or athleticism are comparable too?
When you make a comparison, it’s in regards to one aspect, and it doesn’t translate to other aspects.
Nelson Agholor and Julio Jones are both African American males who play football, are in their 20s, and both play WR for NFC teams with white owners, white QBs, and their teams are based in East Coast states.
I just made zero comments about how good of a football player either are, or comparing the quality of the players, and everything I said was accurate – and a perfectly reasonable comparison.
no no no…referencing other people shows/indicates that what is being done is also being done by those who have/had success doing the same thing
I didn’t say he’s good as either of those coaches.
I said his approach to analytics and fearlessness wrt criticism are similar to those of those two coaches.
He’s obviously much less accomplished, but it can only be a good thing that he is emulating the best.
I looked up “a tad”. It doesn’t mean all day, non-stop venting without paying any attention to facts.
Perhaps you can go with the second definition:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tad
Well, I learned something new today.
TMI
Chip Kelly was a fraud. He wore the mantle of an innovative and aggressive coach (and maybe he was in college), but in the NFL he repeatedly punted and went conservative when he should have been aggressive. Chip seemed primarily interested in avoiding criticism and passing on blame to the players (or anyone other than him).
Other coaches may have access to those numbers. They don’t have the balls to go for it when the numbers say to do so, so it doesn’t matter. McAdoo called for punts twice in situations that were more favorable than 4th and 8 from the opponent’s 43 on Sunday.
Me too. Some of the local sports media/talk radio have a bias against analytics so there was hand wringing when Pederson stated he had an analytics guy up in the booth and knew the odds, but I think it is a smart and rational approach. Analytics should be part of every decision making process for the organization – it is not the only aspect, but, like any tool, can have significant value if used correctly.
Yes, this is exactly the point I was trying to make on the previous thread. Very well put.
People, including a lot of media people, made their minds up about Doug when he seemed clueless in his first press conferences and refuse to acknowledge anything that does not fit that narrative.
Being good with the media is the most overrated skill for any coach/GM.
Professional sports is full of coaches who are excellent at schmoozing the media but mediocre at actually coaching their sports. I’ll take the opposite anytime.
I am trying to give Dougie the benefit of the doubt still, but the 4th and 8
call still doesn’t sit right with me, maybe different game or different day, but just made me feel like Jake Elliot’s pseudo-luck had more to do with the win Sunday than Doug’s “well thought out game plans.”
Is there a rule against hiring some of these former players as a consultant rather than the standard practice of signing them on to the practice squad? If their benefit to the Eagles is their knowledge, why not just pay for that knowledge?
Are you suggesting Barner is just here for spy recon?
And i believe yes
I’m suggesting that there appears to be some benefit to hiring former players of the team you’re about to play, and while the Eagles seem to be knocking out a team need while they play spy, that it would be far easier to not have to limit yourself to the pool of your upcoming opponents’ castoffs to fill holes if you can just buy the info.
No. I like Barner for what he is. I expect a role player, so I find the hatred of him for not being a starter completely misplaced.
Agreed on that last part.
But I don’t know how much it limits them. I highly doubt they’d do it for 16 games.
And there can be an argument made that the bottom 3 or four guys on most teams – be it the inactives or PS guys – really don’t make or break a game or year anyhow.
Benefit comes especially as these guys are almost always on the scout team. It gives a more authentic look than what’s broken down from film.
Barner is here the help replace the production of Sproles in the many ways Sproles was productive; knowing the Chargers` team from the inside is just a (timely) bonus.
Think he has a chance to be a long term addition.
Agreed.
I believe there are nondisclosure agreements with exiting players. So, while you can probably extract a few interesting bits from guys practicing here who used to practice there, if you pay guys to sit in an office and diagram the playbook they just turned in it is going to draw attention.
I also think it is an overhyped side note by the media.
I still stand by my opinion that it was a bad call. ‘Flow’ of the game – at home, up in score – gave momentum to the Giants. As T-Law said above – Giants – being away – should be gambling more. Or the reverse – home, winning – don’t do something stupid to give the other team a reason to feel they are in it…ok enough of that..moving on….
….
Number of people in Charger land losing sleep because they don’t know which back up guard will start: 0
….
“It is driving him crazy that his star QB and the improved receiving corps can’t connect right now.” — maybe it’s him and the play calling…just spit balling some ideas….
Maybe we would have beat the giants if Doug were better at pressers.
I think DP needs pickle juice to succeed.
Fine by me.
Doubt it, Wentz needing to improve his deep ball accuracy/touch and the WR needing to adjust better to the balls in the air are more likely reasons. Play calling is important, but, once called, it is up the players to execute it correctly.
Once Carson and the wrs get synched, this O will be extremely dynamic.
Especially with the addition of Barner (I couldn’t resist).
Carson Wentz, Philadelphia Eagles – Wentz continues to struggle with accuracy issues inside the red zone. Through three games this season, he’s completed just 8 of 15 passes in the red zone. Wentz does have four touchdowns but his completion percentage (53.3) ranks 17th. Last year, Wentz completed just 42 of 86 passes (47.2 percent) with 12 touchdowns and one interception. It was believed that Wentz would improve with more weapons but after three games, he’s still struggling with his accuracy in the red zone and on deep balls. (huddle.com). It’s not just deep balls that’s an issue…..
When all is said and done this year we might find that the first three weeks of our season was against top flight defenses who made almost every offense look bad. Lets see.
You hate Doug, I get it. Maybe you could suggest how to call a deep ball so that his QB doesn’t make a bad throw?
I do have to agree that it’s very rude of him to put the team over your desire to know who is starting at LG. Sounds like at least one person in Eagle land is losing sleep over it.
It was a bad call for sure.
last week behind me — this week…guy to keep an eye on – Travis Benjamin…looked good last week….
He wants a 50-yard TD pass more than I want to be stranded on Pudding Island with Megan Fox.
How is that possible!!!!!
I dont put in credit in PFF, but funny how much we hated on Kelce during the summer?
We hated on both Kelce and Kendricks and both seem to be playing pretty well.
I never disliked Kendricks, he just always seemed to be miscast. When he has to read and react, he seems to make mental errors that kill his performance. If teams can set up a defense that allow a guy like Kiko to excel, there is not reason Kendricks can’t be put in a similar position.
As for Kelce, if I am remembering correctly, in Chip’s last year he had an injured knee but the media was never told and he was terrible. I wanted him replaced badly. Last year, he was definitely a liability with his constant penalties and lack of power. Honestly, he seemed to be done as was evident with the team shopping him this offseason.
This year, I am surprised at how well he seems to be playing. I’ll gladly eat crow if he can keep this up through the season.
But he has to go!
I don’t put a lot of stock in PFF. That said we seem to be maximizing his strengths and hiding his weaknesses better. He’s been impressive not falling apart with a steady rotation of guards of varying qualities, styles, and habits next to him.
I mean even in his “bad” times he has been above average, and the athleticism has always been there.
He’s an extremely athletic center. At his best on the move vs. at his worst trying to solo block a huge NT.
He shouldn’t be THAT hard for a coach to utilize properly, but in an Asante Samuel esque style… he does come with limitations.
Problem is how people evaluate interior OL play. Kelce gives up the occasional hold and false start, which annoys people and is glaringly obvious in games. He also can get pushed back by monster OT’s in the run game and can cause a run to be stuffed which is again pretty obvious to the viewer.
All the stuff he does well and consistently people tend to miss so fans are far more negative on him than they should be.
He is a top 10-15 center which is absolutely fine. If a young guy beats him in camp, get younger. If the BPA in the draft is a center – draft him, but there is no need to replace Kelce yet.
“Pederson isn’t going to just listen to the numbers from the analytics staff and make a decision purely off that. He has to consider field position, the way his offense is playing, the way his defense is playing, the score of the game, the feel of the game, which players are on the field and several other variables. 4th down decisions have to be a mixture of stats and instincts.”
I don’t want to be nitpicky, but you’ve described literally The Numbers. It’s down and distance, field position, score, time of game, all rolled up into how teams in the same/similar situations fared after various outcomes. People who came up with The Numbers understand football. They’re much more nuanced than people who mock them give credit for. You get a neatly packaged delivery of how your decision impacts the game, and then you add in the human element of can your guys go get it.
Film shows Doug called a play that absolutely could have gone and gotten it. He made the right call and called a good play, and Carson just whiffed. So now we just have to trust that Carson is going to make the right play more often than not. If we can’t trust THAT, what are we even doing here?
How demoralizing is it for the other team that the Eagles have 4 opportunities to get 10 yards and they only get 3?
Jets S Terrence Brooks was named AFC Defensive Player of the Week for Week 3.
Acquired from the Eagles one month ago, Brooks picked off two passes against the Dolphins last week, getting one on a fake punt and another off Jay Cutler. He has played just 39 defensive snaps through three games, but Brooks is Pro Football Focus’ No. 11 safety despite playing roughly a quarter of the snaps of everyone else ahead of him. He’s yet to allow a completion.
Yeah, but Dexter McDougle (who we got in return in that trade) knocked another guy into the end zone when he was downing a punt at the 1 yard line giving the Giants the ball on the 20 instead, so at least that’s something.
Wait, didn’t they over turn that?
No, we lost that challenge. It was a touchback.
No. It probably was not a touchback, but there was not a conclusive view of it, so play stood.
Yeah, that takes some real talent!
meh
Meh
Dude has played 39 snaps…. lets hold off on calling for Howie’s head on this one.
Who called for anyone’s head? Just a random share on a former player. You should calm down.
Nice game for him, but I’m going to go with the much larger sample size that suggests he’s a journeyman NFL safety who’s on his third team.
All I was sharing is that he’s doing well on his new team. Nothing less, nothing more.
Kurt Coleman’s first game playing meaningful snaps, he had 3 picks. And I say this as a Coleman fan: you want him back?
Well I guess I need you to first show me where I said anything about wanting a player back. I’m just happy he’s on a team that can utilize his skill-set. Some of you guys go off the deep end for ZERO reason sometimes and it’s silly. I just figured a few posters would be interested in seeing how he’s doing on his new team. Good Lord!
Coleman >>> Maragos as a starter.
Pro Bowler Kurt Coleman >>> Maragos.
Though, we were talking about Brooks.
NI GGERS ARE TAKING DOWN THE GAME, INCLUDING EAGLES
NI GGERS.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1522053244499110&id=120163518021430
goosebumps.
I have no reasonable thought process for the 4th and 8 call…. none.
Can anyone think of ANYTHING?
On Giants side of the field, statistically your expected points are higher by going for it.
I think Doug erred a little bit because the Giants pass D had been very good by that time, and 8 yards is a pretty big ask in that situation.
Analytics are great, I love going for it on 4th down in a lot of situations, but I think in that situation it was probably a bridge too far in terms of likelihood of success.
Hopefully that’s the kind of thing that with experience becomes more wise.
The thing about the expected value charts is they are averages built on many games, which results, again, in averages. They might best be considered what an average team could accomplish playing against an average defense.
They do not actually refer to the probability of that particular game. Only an omniscient God could actually do that.
If your offense is below average and/or you are facing a good defense, the odds will be lower. So it could well be argued that the odds were lower than the chart would suggest in that particular game.
Yes, but I think you also have to factor in how well our defense is playing. If I’m Doug, I am 100% not worried about the Giants scoring whether I punt or not. So, why not go for it?
Was the Giants pass D that great?
Wentz was 8/12 for 71 yards prior to the play
http://www.phillyvoice.com/dislodge-yourselves-from-doug-pedersons-butt-for-that-4th-and-8-call-people/
i am a numbers guy too, but still totally disagreed with that call there. The goal line stand saved 100% of the momentum going to NYG going into the half, plus like Jimmy K referenced we have a pretty good punter also. Forcing Eli into a 2 minute drill with the OL he has could have also resulted in a pick-6, fumble, etc (what are the percentages of that?). In that situation I would have let our defense try to bury the Giants terrible OL (and morale) instead of giving Eli (a 2 time superbowl winning QB) less than 50 yards to go with over 2 minutes.
…..also what if McAdoo didn’t feel he had to keep up with the Jones’ and kicks a field goal there….. our win possibly turns into overtime instead of Elliot hitting a 61 yarder to bail us out
Who won?
we did. dude don’t get all up in arms. I like Doug as a coach, but that 1 call just had me going “da fuck?”
Did you read Kempsk on this one?
you are wrong MattE – you’re not allowed to have an opinion on here that differs from the greatest coach that has ever played the game….. Please fall back in line and keep quiet…
Here comes that strawman again! He just keeps popping up.
come on, that’s funny! Me saying I’m taking a knee about a subject was funny too. Lighten up…this is what messages boards are for. If we all agreed on everything, then nobody would read message boards. For the record, it’s not the same percentage on 4 n 8 anymore – it went down :).
It was a light ribbing poking fun at the strawman argument. I meant it in good fun and am not upset in anyway. I enjoy the back and forth on the message board, and certainly don’t take it too seriously.
I guess you are right that after our failed attempt, the % did go down. Enough failed fourth down conversions from Doug will eventually change the math all together! 🙂
:)…
This is or___’s shtick, he’s the Sheriff of Positivity, the Commissar of Green-Colored Glasses. We all have to stake out our own territory here. Especially if we don’t have a clever avatar.
Just read the comments section from the last thread if you really want to get into it, as it’s already been discussed to death. I’m bored with this conversation already.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with calling yourself a numbers guy and then passionately arguing against the call made when the numbers tell you its 50/50. But it’s annoying.
i am not jumping up and yelling fire Doug bruh lol. I am stating that 99% of the game was fine with me. but the 1% consisting of that last 2 minutes of the half did not sit well with me, R-E-L-A-X
no passion man, just logic over here.
Logic says it was a toss up. Logic doesn’t say it was a bad call.
You say this like Eli wouldn’t have gotten the ball back with 2 minutes to go if they HADN*T gone for it on forth down. But of course he would have! The difference was not weather the Giants would have gotten the ball back or not. It was merely a matter of field position. Who can’t people understand this!? Pederson traded an attempt to put them in the hole by getting more points on the board (at least 3) before the half for a third of the field in field position (stil well outside field goal range for them). That is a meaningful tradeoff. If you make it, you are already in field goal range, there is no way the Giants get the ball back before the half and you go up two scores before. If you dont make it, they get the ball back ANYWAY, just at midfield in stead of somewhere around their 20 yard line. And this is with defense that, so far, has held them to nothing at all. THIS IS A GOOD BET. Of course it doesnt always work. But, as it were, this time it did! They didnt convert, but the defense stopped them. The result of it all was, in other words, the exact same as the best case scenario for punting it away! ARGH!
…sorry. But I am getting more and more worked up here. I’ll take a minute.
Also, does anyone feel that Ben McAdoo has gone all Gordon Bombay (D2) when he started slicking his hair back this season?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1764e78f204fa39dba302d2c7589ab3962a8a9d67d5717bf0ab69abbb06513b0.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6208c33fbb5c693f780f83d5752c7837df93aa3c2ccfa5f2fe2f05833c68b3ea.jpg
Well played sir.
lets hope he stays as “Sellout Bombay”
Triple deke
He certainly looks less like a step dad now.
From Fargo to Calcutta.
From Simple Jack to Mike Ditka. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0dba38db4203c36fb5bb34c68a4aa01e5584868cde77ee989d9a6dc7aa205cd5.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d54907dc97401217a49e10cf4c318c3cc901d67b0d22f9e83d47c9591ffb4168.jpg
So I watched the Dallas game with a Cowboys fan monday night, still recovering from that experience, but I swear to god if anyone still thinks Doug is a bad coach after watching Bruce Arians shit all over himself monday night i don’t know what to say. That was Winston Justice-esque of him, leaving that sorry ass excuse for a right tackle on an island all night and getting his ass kicked EVERY SINGLE SNAP.
Also, AQ fucking Shipley is the Cards center. Our DL should fucking maul the Cards if the Cowboys were able to inflict that kind of devastation. I’ve never seen a 3 man rush get home so fast and so often in my life, what a joke.
Doogie has a long way to go to prove he’s in the same class as Arians.
He’s already much classier than Arians.
Eh, okay. Well, it is nice to have a nice guy as a coach.
I’m not an Arians fan, but his record speaks for itself.
As with any offensive coach, give him a franchise QB, Big Ben (2007 through 2011), Andrew Luck (2012), Carson Palmer (2013 – 2015…age 34 through 36, not so much now at 38) and he looks like a genius.
I thought Arians called a far worse game against the Cows than any game Doug has had so far. It was egregious the way he kept leaving that RT on an island, it really was almost like the Winston Justice game.
That loss should fall on Carson Palmer’s legs. There were so many throws that he didn’t want to step into and make, instead standing still and getting sacked when he had a pocket to step into. He looked very poor.
http://www.delcotimes.com/sports/20170927/video-eagles-quarterback-carson-wentz-promised-kicker-his-game-check-for-making-61-yard-field-goal
Pay up Wentz!
Good morning! :-p
In relation to an earlier comment re the last time when the Eagles scored on a fake punt:
http://www.thephillysportscave.com/2015/10/01/tbt-philadelphia-eagles-brian-dawkins-makes-nfl-history/
Already tired of every poser/copycat going on social media and burning random NFL memorabilia of their favorite team in protest or the kneeling protest.
It’s very sad watching how bad white people throw a fit when black people protest.
Stop generalizing people based on their race, you racist.
I’m hoping he meant it was just the bad white people.
Just an observation from all of the now trendy videos of people burning their tickets or burning a jersey. They’re all white people.
I reported Sean’s comment, but we should probably chill a little here. Tommy’s been patient, but I doubt he wants us calling each other names.
I didn’t call names. I wasn’t all that offended by it. He doesn’t know me.
I know, man. You didn’t do anything wrong.
The other comment about my mom being a whore..that dude is just a troll and that’s all he does on here.
Iggles Blitz has been a bastion of intelligence and respect. I’d hate to see that diminish.
I think it was a joke…much like McCaffery ever being worth the #8 overall pick
your mom was a whore
Harsh but true.
Marvin Lewis sounds pretty salty about Jake Elliott……
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f01f641928f75df42399eedfaf38b92a68de96cbf1025ab58f26ae620fd48fd3.png
Bottom of the roster guys matter. Thanks for bringing this, and the one on Brooks up. The Brooks one stings more than it would otherwise because of the injuries this season.
So… many… injuries. Is an 8-8 season considered successful with the amount of injuries this team has already sustained?
What’s he? 0-7 in the playoffs since he got there?
the joke writes itself
7 playoff births in a division with the Ravens? Remember what Bengals we’re like before him?
He ain’t wrong lol. So funny though. Would be cool if the kid gets a confidence boost from this and starts hitting consistently.
Yea. Elliot deserves a ton of credit for making that FG. Considering it was already one of the longest kicks in history already and that it was in Philly (as opposed to Denver), it has to be one of the most impressive kicks.
With that said, the miss from 30 yards in the Chiefs game is a very legitimate concern. Last year, 18 out of 36 kickers were 100% from 30-39 yards out (25 out of 38 were 100% in 2015 as well). 23 out of 36 were 90% or above (26 out of 38 in 2015). So the question becomes, was that just one miss and he will be consistent here on out, or is he inconsistent. The sample size is clearly WAAAAAY to small to make a conclusion, but not many kickers are missing from inside 40 very often, let alone 30. So hopefully it is just a single miss early in what will be a long career, but the positives of the 61 yard kick, however impressive as it was, should not outweigh the negative of the missed 30 yard fg.
The fact that the kicker, the holder, and the snapper are all unfamiliar with each other makes me less concerned. The rookie nerves in his first game make me more so.
I fully agree that all of these factors may have indeed played a significant role in the missed FG. Still, you can’t afford missing a lot of FGs from that range. If this is just the one time nerves thing, then great. I’d love to have a young kicker who clearly has a strong leg. With that said, only time will tell if that one miss was just one miss. The sample size is too small, but making that 61 yard fg shouldn’t completely erase missing what should be an incredibly easy kick for an NFL kicker.
I hope he does!!
He’s been keeping tabs, too, it looks like…
You’re right!!
Early season weirdness: FO has the NFCE teams ranked 6, 14, 15, 27. The Eagles’ offense is the _top-ranked_ in the NFCE. The defense is ranked only average. Check out the odd rankings of the Eagles opponents so far.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2017/week-3-dvoa-ratings
Why when I look at DP I get the feeling that he is that guy that always has the smelly breath?
Random, I know…..
Have you ever watched the movie Step Brothers? There is a scene in the movie where one guy says that he just hates another guy’s face. No real reason…just hates his face. I actually think their is just something about the way Doug looks. And I bet a lot of people’s opinion about him are at least partially skewed by the way he looks.
Agree. Seems to be a good person and I do think he will be a good coach that will grow to be a better coach, but he does have this look about him.
There is an employee that works at a Chikfila in Boca (S. Florida), and Everytime I see him I just want to smack him. He just has that face which coupled with him being forced to constantly smile inwardly drives me nuts.
He seems like a mouth breather, and not like me but a literal mouth breather. That will dry ya out and make ya stinky. I’m with y’all. Ole dodgy P aka Hal.
I forget which one of you guys started the demand that Wentz pay up on his sideline promise. He listened:
https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/9/27/16375690/carson-wentz-game-check-charity-jake-elliott-philadelphia-eagles-quarterback-kicker-video-field-goal
I believe it was GE that brought it to out attention. I will immodestly admit that I predicted this part.
https://twitter.com/cj_wentz/status/913136126654808070
As much as anything, the charitable donation makes it significantly easier on the accountants.
14k gift now and 13k in Jan. Done. (I think total was 27k)
Here here.
Jake’s prolly not making that much, bet he wishes that was going in his pocket lol.
Wentz is low for a starting qb at $1.6m. Elliott is nearthe League minimum of $465,000, which is pretty damn good for a guy who was on the practice squad a few weeks ago.
It’s not bragging if it’s true.
Glad Nelson wasn’t involved. Strip it down to real goodness.
Carson and Jake can tell this story for the rest of their lives.
“Hey remember the time Jake was lined up to kick the 61 yarder against New York? And I forgot I was on the live mike, right? I was sayin’ all this random stuff. And I said….”
(And then he made the kick! Haha.)
This game makes me a bit nervous. It’s a long trip with a late start against a desperate team. No having Cox available changes our entire denfense and all of a sudden our pass rush is fairly containable.
We really need McLeod back and ready t go. We also need to finally hit in a couple of big plays.
I feel the same way.
Do we need you at your daughters soccer practice or at home?
I’ll be at Shorty’s for the first time this year. Setting the odds straight.
I won’t upvote you because I don’t want to contribute to a jinx but, me, too. Hope to avoid a letdown after the huge win.
MALCOM “NI GGER” JENKINS WILL TEAR HIS ACL THIS WEEKEND
Unfortunately you will suffer great loss this weekend as well.
Gotta get to Rivers…if he gets it going he can be insanely accurate.
Through 3 weeks we’re #1 in time of possession. After Big Red and Chip, it’s hard to fathom.
Kempski’s latest article is about how we’re ranked in the top 10 in a lot of offensive statistical categories.
“Yet, the city of Philadelphia’s construction of a rocket designed to fire Doug Pederson into the sun because he went for it on 4th and 8 continues.”
I don’t think that’s true at all. I think people who love him, still love him. People who are on the fence about him are still on the fence. And people who don’t like him, still don’t like him. I don’t think the 4th n 8 swayed anybody…
Sure hope the Eagles win on Sunday, because I’m gonna be there.
Here you go, “I’m going to be there on Sunday when the Eagles beat the Chargers”.
https://youtu.be/9p774NEOgb8
thanks for sharing
“Pederson also announced defensive tackle Fletcher Cox, linebacker Jordan Hicks, cornerback Jaylen Watkins, and safety Corey Graham are all listed as day to day. He is, however, very optimistic about Cox and Hicks playing Sunday against the Chargers.”
-PE.com
Took me until late tonight to get to this article. Tommy wrote some funny stuff today. As if Doug Pederson might say:
“Then again, maybe I’ll start all three at left guard (Ike, Chance and Wiz). What would you call that? 11 personnel is one running back and one tight end. Maybe we’ll call that 900 personnel since you have three 300 pound guys at one spot.”
Uh, “900 personnel?” Haha. And then “Pudding Island with Megan Fox?” Haha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP4LGtmno1s
It’s sad to be talking about Sproles in past tense.
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/27/16371182/darren-sproles-career-appreciation-acl-tear-broken-arm
I’ve got a feeling that he will come back..
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