QB Update

Posted: August 12th, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 181 Comments »

Okay, let’s talk about the QB competition. How do things look after the preseason opener?

Michael Vick is in the lead.

Both QBs played well, but Vick was better. Vick showed arm strength, accuracy, poise and good pocket presence. He was basically the opposite of 2012 Mike Vick. And that’s the guy we’re trying to avoid. He was an inaccurate turnover machine that couldn’t generate points. New Mike looked worlds different.

This doesn’t mean Vick has the job. He still has a couple of things to prove.

First, Vick simply has to stay healthy. Last preseason he got injured in both of his starts. Chip Kelly has already said that durability is the most important ability at QB. He wants someone that will stay on the field. Vick didn’t get so much as a scratch in the opener. Let’s hope it stays that way in the next 2 games.

Vick needs to lead the team on a sustained drive or two. As fun as it was to see the long pass to Avant and then the bomb to DeSean, you can’t count on big plays. We need to see Vick lead the team on a methodical drive to truly feel comfortable. You need to be able to convert on 3rd downs and move the chains down the field. Vick only faced a pair of 3rd downs vs NE. He converted the one to Avant and then failed to convert the next one ( a 3rd/11 play where he checked down to Celek for 6 yards).

The final challenge for Vick is to show how he handles pressure. He had a clean pocket on Friday night. The Pats don’t have any special pass rushers. They’re not a team that pounds on QBs. We know Vick can tear you apart when he’s got time. We just can’t count on Vick having a clean pocket on a regular basis. Even with a good OL, you’re going to get pressure. Defenses find a way to get after the QB.

We need to see Vick running around and taking some hits. That’s what got to him last year. The pressure got in his head and stayed there. We need to see if New Mike is able to clear his head after a bad play. And Vick needs to show that he won’t turn the ball over when there is pressure and he can get rid of the ball. There are some plays when you’ve got no chance. Too often last year, Vick just made poor choices.

Kelly said Foles would start this week. So Vick will probably play the 2nd quarter. If Vick has the lead after that, he should play at least the whole 1st half of the third game. This will give us enough plays to get a feel for whether New Mike is an aberration or whether Vick has turned the corner on last year and is going to be a good QB this year.

As for Foles, he just needs to keep playing well. If he tries to win the competition by doing spectacular things, he’ll fail. Nick needs to be Nick. Move the team. Score points. Don’t force the ball down the field. Don’t go for highlight plays.

Foles had the strip-sack the other night and then bounced back on the next drive and led the team to a TD. That was a 10-play drive. The offense converted a pair of 3rd downs. They used the up-tempo style that Kelly loves. That was a good drive, even though it lacked any highlight plays. That’s the kind of drive you know you can replicate.

I wouldn’t say the QB race is wide-open anymore, but either guy can still win it. Vick is in the lead. He’s already had the spectacular drive. Now he just needs to do the little things.

As for Matt Barkley, he started very sloppy, but got better. I think he could look a lot better this week. Barkley ended well last week and I think that confidence will carry over. He did show good poise for a rookie.

* * * * *

In case you missed it this weekend, here is the link to my Detailed Game Review. Lots of notes on all the QBs.

* * * * *

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  • Jerry Goldstein

    How can anyone possibly be excited by the prospect of another year of Vick?

    • T_S_O_P

      Winning doesn’t mean won, and the winner isn’t guaranteed 16 games once they have been declared.

      • Tom33

        I think this is an interesting point. This “competition” has been extremely close so far. If it stays that way, no matter who gets named the starter for the Monday night game, you could easily see Kelly switching to the other guy if the first couple of games don’t go well.

        The only way this drama doesn’t continue into the regular season is if the “loser” gets released/traded or if the Eagles put up 30+ points per week.

        • GEagle

          A 3rd round pick with little experience, and a first overall pick with much more physical ability and a decade of experience have been playing to a virtual tie for months….but what does it mean?

          is Vick playing Down to the level of an inexperienced 3rd round pick, or is Foles playing Up to the level of a 3time probowler?

      • Mac

        True, but real maple syrup makes better pancakes.

        • T_S_O_P

          Cupboard bare of maple syrup.

    • GEagle

      Are you really that worried about him playing 16 games? Lol

      • Jerry Goldstein

        Not at all. I’d rather play Foles with Barkley backing him up from the start since our defense is putrid.

        • GEagle

          Preaching to the choir my friend

          • BirdGang

            Wait Wait….Foles played what 6 games and broke his hand. Injuries are part of the game. Just give me the QB that gives us the best chance to win. I dont care about the future…the future is now. Do you really want to go thru another offseason going 4-12?

          • GEagle

            I want to not wait for a 33yr vetAn to Finally fullfill all this potential Im always hearing about

          • aub32

            Some fans don’t mind sucking for a year, but they fail to realize that there’s no that we are going to get some all pro QB in the 2014 draft. Barkley is the perfect example. How many terrible teams do you think were hoping there team might just be bad enough to get Barkley in the 2013 draft. Then he goes and has mediocre 2012 college season, while playing alongside NFL talent. Instead of hoping for hope’s sake, why not put the best players on the field and see where they can take you?

          • BirdGang

            I understand what you are saying. But try to tell that to lets say Jason Peters who is a little older. Tell him hey we arent going to play our best QB in hopes that Foles is the truth. See how well that goes over. Fans have years and years…Players on the other hand, they only have a limited amount of time.

          • aub32

            I completely agree with you. I am not one of the fans who want to see the team suck for a year or two. I hope and feel confident that the best QB will be under center week 1 and not the one that may possibly be better down the line….maybe

          • BirdGang

            Exactly the last thing I think we need to be doing is comparing Vick to Foles. They are two different QBs. But honestly, if our D was a top 10 D…then I would love to have Foles. He is Big and he can control a game. Now if we had a really bad D(which we will prob. have this year) give me someone that can score at the blink of an eye.

          • GEagle

            Uhhh have you not noticed the parity in the past 5 months,,,where do you get off thinking that we are this magical playoff team with Vick, and a 4 win team with Foles? Lol….. have you seen something that I am missing this offseason? Or are you still just stuck on foot speed lol

          • aub32

            There you go making stuff up again. I never said we were a playoff team. I simply said I want the best QB under center because that gives us the best chance to win games. I’d rather hope to win every game knowing we put our best players on the field, than watch us lose and wonder each week what could have happened if the better QB were in the game.

          • GEagle

            Where do you get off thinking you know who the best QB is right now, after all this damn parity?
            ..
            Even when I state my reasons for preferring to start Vick, I never say that it’s because I know he is the best Qb…I have absolutely NO CLUE right now, who would be a better option come September for the next 16 games….I don’t ignore the long term franchise view either…but you won’t hear me saying that I think I know that Foles is the better QB, and anyone who claims to know that Vick is the better QB is full of crap..We don’t even know who Foles is yet, how the hell can we say who is better?

          • aub32

            I never said who is better. Please separate my argument for I think Vick is a better QB, and what I said in response to BirdGang. In my response I said the best QB should be under center regardless of what hope one QB may represent. I can see how you may have mistook this for Vick, but I am also referring to what some Vick fans getting all googlied eyed about with the combo of Vick and Kelly. I think Vick is better based, on what I have seen, but I have not seen everything. So I just maintain my position that the best QB should be under center come week 1.

          • GEagle

            ideally I would completely disagree with you because I would have preferred a fresh start, non of this hero worship in the locker room, and Vick not being brought back…
            ..,
            But because Chip brought Vick back, I would absolutely be mortified if he sat the better QB. he preached competition, and that players would set the depth chart, so now it’s important for him to prove to his locker room that he is a man of his word…So if Vick clearly out plays Foles, then regardless of how bad I think playing Vick is for our future…I would absolutely want to see Vick start….if vIck were to outplay Foles and get benched, it would be horrible…so regardless of my long term concerns I have no choice but to want Chip to start Vick if he outplays Foles…
            ….
            Since there has been parity, there is a real chance vIck can win…so I would hope I get to see him face some adversity so I can be released of some of my concerns and get excited about the season in peace…and all I’m saying is Friday did little of that for me….but that’s not Vicks fault, and I think he absolutely won on Friday night….whoever plays the best in this competition is who I want to start, I just don’t have any clue who that will be at this point…I will say if at the end of the Preseason, it’s a virtual tie and no one wins the job, then I would like to start the youngest..whether that’s Barkley, Foles or whoever…..If Vick and all his superior Talent and experience can’t beat out young, inexperienced 3rd and 4th round picks, then why would I want to start him?…

            IM not saying that Vick can’t or won’t win this job…but Right now, he has yet to separate himself…so why wouldn’t I be more excited about the young kid who can hang with the great Mike Vick?

          • BirdGang

            Vick is the more talented QB and you are as blind as Ray Charles if you cant see that.

          • GEagle

            Lol….define talent lol….Vick is the more Talented than Brady, he runs way faster, he throw harder, better spirals…all Brady has in terms of Talent over Vick is accuracy….,would you take Vick instead of Brady? Lol

            Unfortunately when it comes to NFL QBs, the “Talent” that matters the most is FBI, and Accuracy…and in those areas, I don’t know that Vick is the most talented AT ALL!!!!…He might be, but I have a serious problem saying who I think is the better QB, when I have no idea who Nick Foles is yet…

            I would much rather be Blind, then not even know what I’m looking for lol

          • BirdGang

            True…and I was going to make that point. Brady can put the ball anywhere he wants. He is that good.
            haha ok we all know Vick isnt Brady or Manning. But to say Foles is accurate is crazy. All he does is throw the ball to his check downs.
            But man honestly, I am over the talk between Foles and Vick…You cant compare the two. They each do things better and they both have flaws.

          • GEagle

            Again, I have no idea who Nick Foles is yet…all I know is he showed some encouraging signs on Friday, and For 6 months he has been able to keep up with the super talented Vick who has a decade of experience over him…But I have No idea what that means…

            is Vick playing down to Foles level…or is Foles playing up to Vicks level….tough to answer without knowing who Foles really is…

            im hoping that Foles is playing up to Vick level…because I would Like to think our QB “battle” is more promising than Blaine Gabbert vs. Chad Henne or, Geno Smith vs. Marck STANKchez! Lol

          • GEagle

            Foles broke his hand when he hit an opponents helmet during his throwing motion…a very common injury for QBs…

            all things considered Equal…If you put Foles and Vick behind a top Oline, who has better odds of getting injured?

          • BirdGang

            Ok and Vick got a concussion last year…which is a more common injury in football. So a broken hand v a Concussion. But to answer your question, I would say Vick because he can escape the pressure.

          • GEagle

            Vick missed the entire preseason because he hit his throwing hand on our linemans helmet while throwing the ball…AND he got a concussion….and after all the Injuries like broken ribs, and concussions that Vick has accumulated outside the pocket, you have the audacity to say that Vick is less susceptible to injury, if they both get good line play?….If they both get good line play that means Foles can sit in the pocket and deliver the ball all day…Vick is going to take the ball and run at some point, and when he does, since I have never seen him slide, I assume there is a chance that he takes a big hit…Vick has been hurt much more outside the pocket, then inside the pocket…so until you see him leave the pocket and avoid being hit, Im not trying to hear that his ability to leave the pocket gives him less a chance at getting hurt….When Vick learns his to use his legs without it being a liability to this franchise, then we can talk

          • BirdGang

            It doesnt matter inside or outside of the pocket. Brady missed a SEASON after being hit in the pocket. P Manning almost had his playing days ended by taking hits in the pocket. The fact of the matter is everyone gets hit and everyone is going to get hurt.

          • GEagle

            Yes but you can’t expect me to be ok with watching our starter get injured on plays where he could have avoided it…If you are going to continue to refuse to slide, then you had better not get hurt….To see the guy break ribs, or get concussions because he has to constantly dive head first is maddening and highly unacceptable to me…Coaches that have enabled him til this point are the reason we are still dealing with this crap….You get hit in the pocket and get hurt trying to deliver the ball, or trying to throw it away…I won’t say a bad word about you..but for a starting QB to get hurt because he just won’t slide is flat out Stupid, and it let’s down the hogs up front busting their ass in the trenches to keep him clean and healthy…you can’t knock me from wanting to see smart QB play…actually sliding isnt even smart, it’s common sense…so let me rephrase..you can’t expect me to be happy watching Stupidity out of our leader

          • Joe Jones

            Gotta love Eagles fans laughing and wishing for one of our players to get injured. I agree, that Chip will chose the QB who gives us the best chance to win now. Chip’s motto is “win the day.” What part of win the day is, “well, this guy isnt gonna be here next yr, so lets see what the younger guy can do?”

            And this notion of, “I wanna see more of Nick? or “I wanna find out what we have in Nick?” Well, maybe fans need to see more of Nick, but Chip Kelly has seen plenty of Nick. He competed against him for 2 yrs, he has seen the tape from the 7 games Nick played in last yr and of course, since April in OTA’s and camp. So, while its helpful and part of the evaluation process to see the guys in game condition, I feel pretty strongly, Chip Kelly already has a great idea of what he has in each guy.

            If Chip sees what he is looking for in Nick, I believe he will start. If he doesnt or feels that Michael gives the team the best opportunity to win each week, then Michael will start….its really not that complicated. I trust Chip implicitly….why wouldn’t I? He knows more about football than I ever will.

            I can understand fans frustration with MV7’s inconsistency and penchant for turnovers….I can’t understand or fathom “a fan” wishing for players on their own team to get hurt.

          • Always Hopeful

            Your question about whether it’s Foles catching up to Vick and is a potential star or Vick matching Foles in mediocrity and both are nothing special, is a really good one.

            I hopes it’s the former, but more likely somewhere in between. From the small sample size, they both seem to be able to run to offense effectively.

            Tommy’s point about not being able to rely on long passes every drive (even though we tried that with some regular season success in ’09 and to some extent in ’10) is an important thing to see from Vick and Foles.

            Foles showed he can do the methodical drive.

            I’d like to see Vick do the same. If Vick can be the point guard who can get 20 points and 10 assists a night then he will be the starter this year. Don’t know what that means for the immediate future after this year, but if Vick can master the offense he will be the QB.

    • Ben Hert

      November 15th, 2010.

      • ACViking

        Ben:
        You’re referring to a NYG’s game in which Vick played 53 minutes of garbage football . . . and the LAST seven minutes of great football he’s played as an Eagle.

        Ever since, after the G-men plated the blue print for shutting down Vick — as the Vickings, most of the rest of the league, showed — Vick has been mediocre at best.

        • Ben Hert

          I was referring to this game

          • ACViking

            Forgive me. My mistake.

            Certainly the most exciting regular-season game by a QB wearing green I ever saw.

            Not sure it was the best, given the competition.

          • Ben Hert

            No problem, sir. I admittedly had to google it myself several times to find it.

            While the Eagles haven’t had much in the way of championship success in the past few years, they sure as hell have had some of the most exciting moments I can remember.

    • aub32

      Simple. He’s the best QB we have on the roster and gives us the best chance at winning games. So it’s not that hard to look forward to him lining up behind center.

      • Jerry Goldstein

        Best QB? That’s debatable. I think Chip Kelly agrees considering the QB competition and all. The passed two days Foles looked better than Vick in practice. Why are you passing your opinion off as fact?

        Enough with the hero worship please, it’s disgusting.

        • aub32

          It’s not hero worship. Going with someone other than Vick just for the sake of heading in a new direction is just silly. By most if not all accounts Vick is in the lead for starting QB. Therefore he would be the best guy, at this point and time. Therefore he should start, and it should be looked forward to. That’s not just my opinion, hence my answer. You’re welcome.

  • GEagle

    I just hope Vick n Foles continue to push themselves and that they both benefit from this offseason competition..

    As for the game, I was more impressed with Nick Foles. Vick didn’t show me anything, but that’s not really his fault. he wasn’t really put in much of a position to show anything. I already know Vick throws a pretty ball, and that he can make things happen if he doesn’t get touched. that has Never been in doubt…like Tom said, the test for Vick is how he acts when the pressure is in his face..

    As For Foles, with only two drives, Chip and Vick put Nick in a high pressure situation. Vick came out, looked great…then Foles came out, turned the ball over..Now the Pressure is ON! Nick knew he would only get 1 more series to show what he could do, which is basically like simulating a game winning or tying late game drive…and Nick responded beautifully. I think that speaks Volumes!!!!..Kid keeps showing mental toughness and moxxy. he got in a groove, he ran our hurry up all the way into the Endzone.

    yes Foles didn’t throw a TD pass, but instea of trying to tie Vick and throw the screen to WR on the outside who we’re stacked behind TE’s, he read that the Oline had Hat on Hat blocking and he let Bryce take us home…
    ..
    Foles fumbled that first drive, came back out, made all the right reads, led the offense right down field with Tempo and started to get in a Rythm..I would have given my left arm to see one more series of Foles since he started to heat up…who knows what kind of groove he could have gotten into…I also liked most of his ball placement because most of his passes were caught by a player who was able to make the catch in stride, and turn and get upfield..that’s solid ball placement

    I’m hoping Nick can score Thursday on his opening drive, that way the pressure will be put on Vick to Keep up with Foles and make something happen with the 1 or two series that he is given…its important to put Vick In a high pressure situation and see how he will respond..I also am hoping to see how Vick performs with our tempo packages. Foles and Barkley both had some success playing with Tempo, and now I need to see what Vick can do.

    As for the Starter, I would gladly take either Vick or Foles if they play like they played Friday.

    • aub32

      Wow, just wow. The way some of you will change the narrative to boost your guy is amazing. I just don’t know what I am amazed by more, the excuses/skewed logic that you use, or how oblivious you are to the fact that’s exactly what you are doing.

      Now I am not here to bash Foles. There’s no need to. I was impressed by him Friday night, but to suggest that he showed more is ridiculous. I could just as easily say that I know Foles can dink and dunk, just as I know Vick can throw the ball. The funniest part is that had the exact performance happened with Vick having the turnover, it would in no way be viewed as you viewed Foles. You would condemn him for turning over the ball, saying things like he was doing too much and should have gotten rid of the ball or ate the sack. Yet your blind bias for Foles is remarkable in that you can turn his performance into something outstanding, compared to Vick going 4 of 5 with a TD and no turnovers.

      • GEagle

        hahahahah what did Mike Vick show you Friday? Please explain…did he show you any resilience? did he prove to you that any of the issues we have with him are fixed? Hahaha

        if a Veteran of 10 years can’t complete passes, with a crystal clear pocket, he wouldn’t be in the NFL…so please explain what Mike Vick showed you?

        tired of these butthurt apologists. If I don’t bow down and kiss the ground he walks on every friggin day it’s a problem. what FOCKIn narrative did I change? DO you really need someone to tell you that Mike Vick looked good Friday? When you go 4/5 TD and no interceptions I think it’s UNDERSTOOD that he had a good showing,,.unfortunately I learned nothing from it…

        like I said, it’s not Vick fault because he wasn’t placed in a position where he could show us anything…So WTF is the problem with what I said? Congrats…he sat in the pocket untouched and hit WR…CONGRATS, all our problems must be solved…Let me now bow down and kiss the ground he walks on!!

        • aub32

          What apologies did I throw out? I’m sorry that I don’t want to give an undeserved amount of credit to Foles for fumbling the football. I wonder, do you give Vick credit for winning the Cleveland game last year? He was awful, but in the end he pulled it out. So should he be overly praised? Hell no. His play was down right bad, and I make no excuses for it. You however work on a different grading scale depending on how much you like a player. I am just clling you and other Foles’ supporters out on it. Again I am not saying Foles was awful. I believe I said I was impressed, but I won’t give him extra credit for throwing short completions against the Pats second team defense. Vick did show something. He showed the ability to make smart decisions, when he opted to throw the ball instead of running it. He showed the ability to read a defense by seeing there was only a single high safety on Jackson’s option rote. Yet these are things you and others overlook. That wasn’t a called go route. Vick and Jackson recognized what the defense was giving tham and took advantage. So am I supposed to malign Vick because he played well? Give me a break dude. Just admit when you’re wrong, or are your Nick Foles glasses too thick?

          • GEagle

            I dont care who you credit and who you don’t…you are the one that had a problem with I said, when the problem is your reading comprehension…so now that you got my attention, please explain to me what Vick proved to you on Friday?

            For the 15th time Both QBs played well! I would be more then happy to consistently get that type of QB play this season from either….But which questions did Vicks performance answer for you?

            Both players led the team into the ENDZONE, both completed high percentage of passes…I got to see Foles under way more pressure and how he would respond(because his fumble and Vick scoring placed him in a high pressure situation) and I got to see him run an efficient hurry up…What can I say about Vicks performance besides what the stats tell you? that if we don’t let defenders hit him, that he can complete passes?……well I didn’t need Friday Night to tell me that! When Vick is good, he is good…don’t you already know that? I need to see him not be so darn Abysmal when things get bad….I need to see him Not look like Blaine Gabbert when things start going bad….the situation didn’t present itself for him to prove it. I don’t hold it against Vick, but I don’t take that much from it either…and I don’t see what the problem is?

            So what’s the problem now?

          • aub32

            Did you read my last post? Didn’t I answer that question? Fine I will break them down so that they are clear.

            1) You are crazy if you think Vick didn’t have a ton of pressure on his shoulders. This may be his last chance at a starting job in the NFL. He’s a 10+ year vet going against a 2nd year rookie. There’s pressure for him to stand out. Now maybe I am wrong. Maybe you would not have maligned Vick had he committed the same fumble as Foles, but I believe you are smart enough to know there are plenty of people who would.

            2) He made smart and safe decisions. During his roll out, he could have easily tucked the ball. He didn’t. He found the open man for the strike.

            3) The TD catch by Jackson was not a called 9 route. Both he and Jackson read that there was a single high safety and took full advantage. That tells me two things. First off, contrary to the narative some have painted, I am not saying you, Vick can in fact read defenses. Second it shows that both he and DeSean are on the same page. Try asking Romo how important that is the next time Dez runs the wrong route, and it results in a pick six.

            4) Faced with a 3rd and long, knowing this was his last series to create some distance between him and Foles, he opted to take the check down instead of doing too much and risking an injury or a turnover.

            Now tell me again how he showed nothing.

          • GEagle

            fair enough…but I guess my wording was off
            ..
            I already know when Vick is good, he is good. It was nice to see him efficiently run our offense, and I completely agree that he had the better night…but I don’t care the least bit about the good Vick…I won’t ever be comfortable with putting this guy on the field until I find out that Bad Vick, isn’t going to be so darn horrendous….
            ..
            with all the weapons we have, and a brilliant play caller, I don’t care about who wins this competition because I think if we block for both QBs, they can get the ball in the hands of our weapons…I care about who Doesn’t Lose this competition. I don’t expect either QB to be the stngth of the 2013 Eagles offense, so I’m more interested in who will be less of a liability…Vick has been the Ultimate Liability at times, and I need to see him handle some adversity. I need to see what happens when he gets hit. I need to see how the play ends when he takes off and runs with the ball…So while all the things you listed are absolutely great to see out of Vick, those aren’t my concerns regarding him.

            We are fortunate that we have a chance at having a good offense without having a top QB…so I need to see who is going to hold up more in the face of adversity, and who will hurt us less when things get tough…..This is what has plagued the career of Mike Vick, so how can I be comfortable until I see some of these things change?

            Friday was a flawless showing from Vick. you can’t take that away from him…but how could it make me feel more comfortable about having him lead our offense? it’s not always going to be smooth sailing….
            ..
            I had Never seen Foles hold his team back frm winning. never. By the time he came into the game last year, the team was such a disgraceful mess that there was nothing for Foles to hold back lol….Yet people forget that the beginning of last season, our team was playing decent football. our team was playing decent enough to win some games, and Vick just shot them in the foot over and over again, to the point where all the hero worship in the world couldn’t keep his teammates for wanting o see him benched…We have too good of an offense already in place to have a QB repeatedly shoot us in the foot and unravel…I need to see him not unravel and be able to stop the bleeding when things get bad….There is a real chance that Vick will be our Qb this year, so I really am hoping that he has to face in game adversity…

            I’m hoping Foles scores first, and that the panthers are able to hit(but not hurt) Vick a few times. I would love to see him come in after Foles put up 7, go 3 and out, and then see what he does with his last series of the day. I want to see him have to take off and run, and see how the play ends…I just hope he is placed in a position where he has a change too alleviate my concerns…I would Hate to see him sail through the preseason with two more performances like Friday

          • aub32

            You did clear things up, but your logic confuses me. How can you refer to Vick last year, taking out the bad, but ignoring his late come back wins in the Brown, Ravens, and Giants games. He struggled in Pittsburgh, but he did score late in the 4th to give us a lead. Do those examples not count? If not, Why don’t they count?

            If you ask me the two biggest questions that Foles has to answer is that can he win games? and can he do anything significantly better than Vick? Right now Foles suffers from many of the same flaws Vick sufferes from. (Injuries, holding on to the ball, turn overs, poor decisions). However, Vick can compensate and has overcome his poor play with fantastic plays that only he, and now RG3, can do. Foles has to prove he can do anything that sets him apart from Vick.

            Also, what happens if preseason Vick only has good to perfect play. Will you fault him for not making a mistake so that he can overcome the adversity he did not create?

          • GEagle

            because I think this offense is talented enough to win games without exceptional QB play. Vick is wired to put the team on his back and win the game. And that isn’t necessary this year..I’m not looking for the most spectacular QB, I’m looking for the best game manager who will hurt this offense less…I don’t know who that is at this point…

            We also have to keep in mind that we as fans will never be able to know the entire story. we see completions, but we don’t know if it’s the right decision, and the right read, against a certain coverage..so none of us will ever really know who is winning a close QB battle…Tough to know how chip is viewing this battle because we don’t know how each play is supposed to unfold…and when two QBs look pretty even, that’s going to play a huge role in deciding the winner

          • GEagle

            Note…if you want me to read your post, you can disagree without talking shit…if you talk shit in your first two sentences, don’t expect me to read the rest…

          • GEagle

            And YES, Vick Suould Absolutely get credit for the Bowns game…He should get credit every single time he has a game winning drive. that’s Huge for a QB….It doesn’t absolve the putrid first half, but you give credit when it’s due, and you crucify when it’s warranted!! !

      • GEagle

        FYI….only an irrational fool would condemn Vick for turning the ball over, when the pocket collapses withing 3 seconds and he is in the process of trying to throw the ball away…I keep it real at all times, and you are out of your mind if you think I would condemn Vick for Foles’s fumble

        • aub32

          Then I must be coo coo for cocoa puffs.

          • GEagle

            Not necessarily…I don’t know that the hit happened with in 3 seconds lol, thus I don’t have the necessary intel to be able to call you a fool lol

        • Andy124

          It’s funny. I actually disagree here. I absolutely would blame Vick for fumbling there.

          He either has to tuck the ball and take the sack, or if he decides he has enough time to throw it away, he has to be right. If he’s wrong, that’s on him.

          So yes, I would absolutely fault Vick for that fumble. And yes, I fault Foles for his fumble and that’s why, imo, Vick won the night. 1 turnover to 0 makes it pretty easy to grade.

          On the other hand, I agree with your point that Vick didn’t show some of the things Foles did, if for no other reason than lack of opporunity to do so.

          • GEagle

            ideally I would agree with you…but I think it depends on how much time the QB had to get the ball out, and where the pressure is coming from…We can be idealist and hold guys to crazy standards but the fact of the matter is neither of our Qbs have eyes in the back of their head, and no QB’s instincts operate at 100% success rate. A qb won’t always “feel the pressure” the good ones feel it more often than most…

            I’m uncomfortable speaking about Foles fumble, because I didn’t do my due diligence. To give a real oppinion, I should know how much time passed from the time the ball was snapped to the time Foles got hit, and I honestly don’t know…my recollection of it was that it happened fast and at the time I remember not being too pissed about it….Is that because Of my bias? IM sure thats a possibility…but inside of 3 seconds, I can’t blame a QB for taking a blindside hit and not getting rid of the ball fast enough…and I would personally extend that courtesy in my judgement of any Qb….

          • GEagle

            Also…I actually agree with you. never once did I say that Foles won the night…I’m not a fool who is going to sit here and judge Vick negatively because he played a flawless game and wasn’t placed in positions that he had to be resilient…I absolutely give the nod to Vick for Fridays game….but with that said, I learned practically nothing from Vicks time behind center other than he executed the offense fine…Even tho I think Vick played better, I learned much more about Foles then Vick…and I would take either of them if they play the way they did on Friday night for an entire season

    • OregonDucker

      I thought Foles showed us something in the drive. He made quick, and correct decisions while staying accurate.

      Vick too showed his “smarts” by seeing single coverage and hitting the open receiver. However, his notable plays were bombs, look familiar, and so not reflective of a typical Chip offense drive. I still am concerned that he does not have the quick decision + accuracy skills to run this offense.

      Most notable about Barkley was his improvement during the game and his ability to release the ball quickly. However, I thought his accuracy suffered and his delivery was weak. He is not ready yet.

      • GEagle

        I just hate the preseason because a QB gets going, and then he is done for the day…Once Foles started to get into that Rythem, I would have given anything to see what he could have done with the next drive….Conversly Vick scored first, and then Stalled on the next drive…I would love to see what he would have done with the next two drives….We are all dying to find out who the best QB is, and all we have to go by is a few scraps….so frustrating

      • Always Hopeful

        Interesting take OD. I live in the Northwest and have seen my share of Ducks games, and you named what I was thinking. Bombs away looks more like AR and MM ball from ’09-’12.

        As much as I would like Vick to master the quick decision + accuracy skills, I don’t know if he has/will.

        Would be nice to see Vick on one of those methodical drives in the uptempo pace, taking what the defense gives him and playing “point guard”.

        • GEagle

          I love getting perspective for fans well versed in the Ducks.
          ..
          I say it all the time, Vick is used to playing point guard like Russel Westbrook….we need our QB to play like Rajon Rondo…can Vick make the switch successfully? Hopefully they call plays for him that allow us to find out

          • Always Hopeful

            Appropriate analogy GE. Somebody please send Vick a T-shirt that says “More Rondo, Less Westbrook” with GE’s explanation attached to it too :-)

  • livingonapear

    I think we’re about to hit the QB race equivalent of the New Hampshire primaries or super Tuesday. Both QBs are in a position to put the other away if Thursday falls right, because Vick can show that he’s not just a deep ball cannon, but Foles can also get on everyone’s tongue if he comes out firing on all cylinders. It’s the underdog’s advantage. Obviously Chip Kelly has the final say in all of this, but if you’ve got the whole town talking about Foles, that’s hard to ignore.

    • GEagle

      I don’t think this race gets decided before the 3rd preseason game…but we are pretty much down to the last two weeks of the battle…There has been a lot of back and fourth parity til this point so these next two weeks are crucial. This is Not the time where you can afford a bad game or a bad day of practice. both performed well on Friday…who is going to build off that more? who will be sharper mentally now that the real pressure is on. time is running out…who is going to grab this offense by the throat and lead us?…We have been breathing this battle daily for months…Now it gets interesting…Vick did his thing, Foles bounced back and responded…Now it’s Foles turn to try and put the pressure on Gick and see how he responds

      • livingonapear

        It’ll definitely take 3 games to decide, but the second game will set the tone for game three, and if things move in Fole’s direction, it will be a greater shift. An upset starts in game 2, finishes in game three.

      • OregonDucker

        In the Thurs. game, don’t be surprised if Chip puts Barkley in with the 1s. He did that in practice today for the first time. Mainly Chip wants to see how Barkley can perform with 1s talent.

        • GEagle

          Oh I definitely expect Barkley to get his shot to play with our big guns..l haven’t read up on today’s practice yet,,,He got some snaps with the 1’s today?
          .

          • OregonDucker

            As I read the tweets today, Barkley was in with the 1s twice.

          • aub32

            Any word on how he looked?

          • Andy124

            6’2″. Short blonde hair.

          • GEagle

            And Sassy!!!!

          • GEagle

            Thank you kind sir

  • Jerry Goldstein

    I’ve heard that even in practice Vick doesn’t run the up-tempo fast/well. He is clearly being outplayed by Nick in this regard. I’d say that’s highly important to Chip.

    Watching that preseason game, the speed of the offense was like night and day with Vick and Foles in. I was very impressed by how fast the offense got to the line and got the play off with Nick.

    • Cafone

      Yeah, but maybe we should wait to see Vick actually run the hurry up before we deliver a verdict. It’s obviously going to be night and day when one guy runs the hurry up and the other doesn’t.

  • EaglesTrolltheWorld

    You have to ask yourself if your assessment has anything to do with the fact that Chip had Foles run an uptempo gameplan while Vick did not. With an expected role reversal between the two QBs this week, I think the outcome Thursday night will provide more insight when taken in context of last week.

    • GEagle

      i think Foles scoring on the first drive, would really put Vick in a pressu situation that can tell us something

      • EaglesTrolltheWorld

        Or conversely if Vick doesn’t perform well with a green or yellow-speed hurry-up

        • GEagle

          Absolutely…we ran off 80 something plays on Friday night..Can’t remember if it was 82 or 89 plays, but I remember that it was almost 10 more plays than the Patriots plays per game average of last year, which makes it more curious that CHip had Vick slow it down early in the game…how many plays could we have ran off had Vick played with tempo? 100? Lol

    • TommyLawlor

      There is no question that Kelly will want to see Vick do some different things. And this game will be a bigger part of the QB evaluation than last Friday’s.

  • eagleyankfan

    Now he’s pro-vick … “Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.” :). Well, whoever starts game 3, vs. Jag’s — has a cupcake match up. Panthers — not so much. The have a pretty good D. Starters come out when Vick enters the game? I don’t envy the coaches trying to figure out the QB.
    Are the QB’s really separated by that much where Vick is clearly in the lead? Was Foles asked to make the same throws as Vick? What if someone blows blocking assignment and Vick fumbled? meh — the fun continues :).
    Game 2 – does that mean the playbook opens up a little more? Or do we see the same as game 1?

    • GEagle

      Tom, you are sooo bias that the paparazzi caught you in your Mike Vick pajamas with the footsie’s attached

  • barneygoogle

    We have to remember that Vick suffered a very bad concussion last year. Should he suffer another one–the alarm bell will go off. I think part of this competition is for Kelly to protect the team should Vick have another concussion. I won’t be convinced until Vick takes a couple of hard hits and gets up okay.

  • Patrick

    Can this whole Vick experiment just end already?

  • barneygoogle

    On another note, with all due respect to the camp reporters and their cry: Polk…Polk..Polk.
    What happened Friday? B. Brown flashed those great skills, and made Polk look very ordinary. Practice evaluation has its limits. The games reveal what practice cannot.

    • GEagle

      I warned everyone that Bryce hasn’t all of the sudden become Chopped liver lol
      ..
      the curse of Dion Lewis continues lol

      • Andy124

        I was just extremely excited that he scored his touchdown up the middle.

      • OregonDucker

        Kid’s got a ton of talent. He just needs to apply himself to help the offense succeed.

        • GEagle

          Yeah, he has way too much talent to just become a decent second option….I would like to see this kid be one of the hardest workers on the team…so much potential. I don’t even see the ceiling for this kid, if he realizes most of his potential he will be scary

    • Anders

      Polk has one advantage over Brown in that Polk seems to be a very very good pass protector, something Brown seems to struggle with

      • Ben Hert

        Polk’s block on the first drive were a thing of beauty. I actually rewinded to watch the blocks several times.

        • GEagle

          Same…I was shocked. I had no idea he had that in him already at this point in his development…He is also Su handed, playing WR for years until switching to RB his senior year of High school….Bryce has really been struggling in practice in terms of dropping too many catchable balls, so it was awesome to see how effective he was as a WR on Thursday night…I think he caught everything thrown to him(someone correct me if you remember him dropping a pass)..

          the media tried to start the Bryce vs. Polk battle, but ideally both will be valuable weapons to the 2013 Eagles offense…

          • barneygoogle

            Yea, I like Polk too for the fundamental skills. But one look at Brown’s power and acceleration–and you know he’s in another league as a runner. A shame Brown lacks those fundamentals.

          • OregonDucker

            Agreed. Felix is cut.

          • GEagle

            Snip snip for king Felix! Lol…Tucker looked practice squad worthy. Although you never know who other teams might cut

          • xlGmanlx

            We also have to look at it from both sides, that the defender probably didn’t go all out, not to diminish anything that has already been written, I noticed and rewound the game as well. I just don’t want one block in one meaningless game/scrimmage to get blown out of proportion. I think we will need Polk to take a big step forward, I just don’t think we can safely say it until it is regular season tape.

    • ICDogg

      Na Brown award candidate

    • xlGmanlx

      I tend to disagree. Also in a Chip Kelly system, I think it would make sense to give some load to Polk in the preseason because there seems to be a decent load for him to carry, especially with the up tempo we saw with Foles/Barkley. He did have the block to setup the DJAX TD, he doesn’t step up and make the block, 7 doesn’t make that throw.

      • Always Hopeful

        Whatever Polk lacks in starting RB athleticism he makes up for in serviceable 3rd string RB skills…in my opinion.

    • D3FB

      Too small of a sample size to make any definitive statements.

  • Ben Hert

    Regardless of who wins, I’m going to feel really bad for whoever loses the QB battle. I feel guilty when I find myself cheering for either one of them, like I’m cheating on my QB.

    Foles is like that cute girl who comes into your life when you’re having problems with your current girlfriend. Grass is always greener, they say, but you know the relationship you had with your current girlfriend was great at one point, and you hope it can get back to that. Sometimes you even see glimpses of it. At the same time, you’ve hung out with the new cute girl a couple of times, and you enjoy spending time with her. Oh the torture.

    • A_T_G

      Suddenly it makes sense why Chip is stringing them both along, challenging them each to one-up the other and trying to get in as much action as he can before he is forced to pick one.

      • Andy124

        I’m getting the impression that scoring with them both at the same time may be Chip’s ultimate goal.

  • Andy124

    I’m surprised nobody had mentioned that Foles didn’t have the benefit of DeSean Jackson for a single snap Friday night.

    I’m not disagreeing with the consensus that Vick had the better game, it’s just something that I thought would be brought up by now.

    It looked to me like NE sent a lot of delayed pressure. An LB would read the play and rush once he read pass, rather than blitz right off the snap. Think this is part of a strategy for defending the zone-read?

    • Gary

      Yup, Foles didn’t have DeSean, and the o-line played worse for him (at least on his fumble). Like you said, Vick still played better, but that’s why Chip wants to see at least one more game with split reps.

      • aub32

        It’s bad enough that your coming up with every excuse in the book for Foles, but now you’re making things up. Have you no shame?

    • Anders

      Well Vick had the inferior RB (in terms of running not pass protecting) and while Foles deep ball might have improved, I doubt he would have been able to make that TD throw.

      • Andy124

        You’re right, Polk is another advantage Vick had over Foles in the passing game. Good catch. ;)

        And I promise you Foles is “able” to make that TD throw. You can certainly make an argument that Vick would hit that a higher pecentage of the time, but to say that Foles simply cannot do it is a bit over the top.

        • Anders

          While Polk was an advantage over Brown in pass protection, Polk go a total of 7 yards on 4 carries. That is not helping in sustaning drives (we saw that on Vicks second drive where Polk got zero yards on the series where they had to punt)

        • aub32

          So the fact that Brown caught two passes an ran for both a 1st down as well as the eventual TD did nothing to help out Foles. Come on guy.

          • Andy124

            Anders pointed out that Foles played with a better back (except for pass blocking). I playfully turned that around in to a passing advantage for Vick. Emphasis on playfully. See the winky face? You keep missing those.

          • aub32

            I’m not one for emoticons. I never use them and rarely pay attention to them if they are not from a pretty girl.

          • Andy124

            They are useful tools for conveying tone. Black and white text rarely comes off as lighthearted without providing some kind of clue, and I’d rather not use lol as a punctuation mark. Particularly when I’m not l-ing ol.

          • aub32

            I agree. Please don’t take my remarks as condemantion. I was just telling you why I keep missing them.

      • ACViking

        Anders . . . greetings.

        Vick’s pass traveled only 47 yards in the air from a clean pocket. Does Foles make that pass? Maybe the guys who get to see practice every day may have a more informed view than mine. I’d like to think that, from a clean pocket, Foles can throw the ball 47 yards.

        Here’s a link to the play:
        http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013080902/2013/PRE1/patriots@eagles#menu=highlights&tab=recap

        • aub32

          I have no doubt Foles can throw a 47 yard completion. However, I do have my doubts that he can be as accurate or consistent as Vick when it comes to throwing passes over 40 yards.

          • ACViking

            I suspect you’re right as rain . . . ‘specially from a clean pocket.

        • Anders

          Foles might be able to make the throw in perfect clean pocket, but if you notice, Vick cant step fully into the throw and make it from his back foot and there is no way in hell Foles can make that throw from his back foot.

    • aub32

      You mean this DeSean Jackson. You mean the DeSean Jackson that’s clearly lined up in this formation with Foles on the field. Come on. Make up another excuse.

      http://www.phillymag.com/eagles/2013/08/10/no-22-what-we-saw-from-chip-kellys-offense/

      • Andy124

        Could have sworn that was DJ2 in there. And unless you have much higher screen resolution than me, it’s not clear at all who that is.

        And how is agreeing that Vick had the better night and being surprised that nobody mentioned that DJ1 was not in the game “making excuses”? You’re reading too deeply in to my comment.

        Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

      • Neil

        No reason to get hostile. I wasn’t sure I saw Desean Jackson in there until I found that play in my recording of the game. You can’t see the number in that particular frame. It is Desean though. Was that the only play he was featured in with Foles, do you know?

        • aub32

          I am not hostile. I am just tired of the excuses. It’s gotten to the point where people are bringing up lies in defense of Foles. Personally, I think Foles did a good job. I was impressed, but the excuses have to stop some where.

          • Andy124

            You’re assuming a follow up to ‘being surprised that no one mentioned it’ that just wasn’t there. I understand why you assumed it, but the assumption is wrong.

            And of course, if that really is DJ1, it’s not surprising at all that no one mentioned it.

          • aub32

            I don’t see how bringing up the fact that Foles did not play with DJ1 is not an excuse. What other reason is there to bring that up? The fact that it’s not true is what really annoys me, but even if it were, it only serves as an excuse.

          • Andy124

            For the sake of argument, let’s assume that my initial observation was correct, that Foles did not have a single snap with DJ1. Now, knowing how great DJ has been in TC, would you expect some posters to mention that in defense of Foles or not? Would you be surprised if days went by and no one brought it up?
            Now go look at the picture you linked to and ask yourself how annoying it is that somebody would think that tiny little guy in white who’s number starts with a 1 is DJ2.

          • aub32

            Regardless if the statement were true or not, I would be annoyed by fans making excuses, unless in the same post they happened to mention how bad the Pats backups are. The fact that it isn’t true is what drew a response from me. I get it’s a mistake, but regardless bringing it up would only serve as an excuse. You play with the talent that is on the field. You play against who is lined up across from you. Do not excuse one person only to ignore all the personnel excuses that could be used to defend the other person.

          • Andy124

            That’s all well and good, but you avoided the question. Would you expect some posters to bring it up? Considering how much differing personnel is brought up when discussing last year’s performances, I sure expected it. And I was surprised that they didn’t. I expressed that surprise and nothing more.

            Like I said to BBaaS, I’m not posting in a vacuum. I understand why you filled in the blanks the way you did. I’m just letting you know that you filled them in wrong.

          • Neil

            I just look at it like what is broadcasting your tiredness going to do to the people who want to make excuses for Foles? Has it stopped them, or has it just caused them to come back and justify themselves? It seems like a lot of wasted energy for a process you could short circuit by just letting them be. You know? Unless you want a fight, then carry on.

            Back onto the topic, Desean was in for one play with Foles, but I’m not sure there are more. I’d be more interested in who the offensive line was. I can’t say any more for sure without knowing more, but I suspect the personnel around Foles was a bit weaker besides Bryce Brown.

          • aub32

            I don’t combat, nor do I want to combat everyone that makes an excuse for Foles. You are absolutely right that it would be a waste of energy. There are people in both camps who want their guy starting regardless of what actually happens on the field. I chose to comment here because it was untrue. There’s a difference between making excusing and just making stuff up. So I decided to show someone hat they were wrong as well as those who may be on the fence and think “O that’s a good point” not realizing that it is a untrue claim.

            I get your point about the personnel around Foles, but that opens the door to question the opposition Foles played against. I have purposely avoided this topis, but the fact is the Pats have had a very bad D the past 2 years. Wouldn’t it be safe to assume their backups are another grade of bad, and that Foles only saw success because, like last preseason, he only played scrubs. I’d rather not have that debate, because it would soon spiral to nothing means anything. Instead I choose to look at Foles played next to the talent he was given against the talent that he was opposing. He did really well on his second series given what was on the field.

          • Neil

            Yeah, all true. The point about the Pats’ defense is enough of a rebuttal by itself to any reasonable person.

    • Cafone

      Foles didn’t have the benefit of DeSean, but it’s not like he was completing long passes without him. If he was throwing down field without DeSean rather than completeing a bunch of short passes to the RB and TE then that would certainly be impressive.

      • Andy124

        Like I said to aub, I was just surprised no one brought it up. I never said it made a difference.

  • jtre

    I feel like since the majority of our plays will be run from the Shotgun it will help Vick in diagnosing pressure. He will be able to see the blitz easier. I feel like he freaks out when hes sees a blitz coming and hes under the center. Just a thought though

  • mhrinda

    It was a mistake to resign Vick. Popularity doesn’t win football games. I hope one of two things happen: Vick loses the QB competition fare and square or Vick proves me wrong and resurrects his of late lame career.

    Go Foles and Barkley !

  • SteveH

    I had really hoped Foles would win the competition because I don’t think Vick is the long term answer at QB and I wanted to get the kid in there so we can see if he’s the guy, but if Vick plays at a high level instead of like 2011 and 2012, well, you can’t get upset with that. Hopefully if he wins the job he doesn’t pull a Jekyll and Hyde on us.

    • aub32

      Vick’s 2011 play wasn’t as horrible as some of you are trying to make it out to be. Yes he turned over the ball, but he also averaged over 25 ppg and gave us leads late in games. You can’t ask for much more than that from QBs not named Brady or Rodgers.

      • SteveH

        There were quarterbacks I would have preferred to have who were not named Brady or Rodgers in 2011. Vick in 2010 played at a high level up until the last couple of games of the season, Vick after that has been in a decline. Hopefully this year if he wins the job he can get back to somewhere near where he was.

        • aub32

          I think after 2010 people expect too much from Vick. No one expected that team to even make the playoffs before Vick took over. He elevated that entire roster. In 2011 he played like a top 10 QB, but it just wasn’t enough. Yes he deserves some blame for the turnovers, but they weren’t all on him. Also, many of the better QBs have high turnover rates. Look at Eli and Brees. Vick is a good enough QB that he can overcome the deficiencies of the rest of the team. However, he is good enough to win games in this league, and at times he can make a play or two that makes all the difference, good or bad. We just have to hope that it’s more often good in this new system.

    • ACViking

      SteveH wrote:

      “if Vick plays at a high level . . . ”

      The problem is, “Relative to what?” The Eagles’ defense in training camp? The vanilla defenses he’ll see in pre-season in 2 or so series?

      This whole competition thing is seeming more and more inscrutable.

      • aub32

        So what would be your solution? Isn’t Foles going against the same vanilla looks? Didn’t Foles go against lesser players in the 2 series he played? The players can only go up against what’s put in front of them, and if one is outperforming the other, under the same conditions, wouldn’t that deem that there is indeed a competition and an eventual winner?

        • ACViking

          I’m not picking a winner. I’m not favoring either guy.

          I’m just questioning the process.

          In theory, Kelly’s idea sounded fine.

          As T-Law’s said . . . Kelly’s new and learning what about his approach will work in the NFL.

          Maybe the QB competition is more hollow than he expected.

          Maybe not.

          But if he doesn’t have another “Competition” next camp, what conclusions do you draw? (Could be several, I know.)

          • aub32

            I think the season dictates whether there needs to be a QB battle or not. Neither guy did enough last year to secure their position as the starter. This year may or may not be different. Do you think Chip would make Brady compete each year? Heck no! Likewise, if one of the QBs on this team emerges and looks really good in this system, then they can secure the starting job heading into next season. However, I feel position battles were necessary at almost every position outside of RB and K.

          • Tom33

            My concern is this be an issue that lingers throughout the season.

            As Derek posted at igglesblog a few days ago, clearly Chip has to have somebody in mind for the starter. He may not be ready to tell anyone else, but it can’t really be 50/50.

            The advantage of not announcing it is that both guys keep competing, and if he does change his mind, he never has to tell anyone that.

            The downside really depends on how the team behaves. If you develop factions (pro-Vick vs pro-Foles) you could end up dividing the team, and ensuring half start off the year unhappy that their guy isn’t #1. Then, in the unlikely event that the team doesn’t go undefeated in the early part of the season, you have all the questions about who should be lining up under center.

            I wouldn’t expect a competition like this next year unless Vick is the starter this year and then isn’t with the team in 2014. Then a Foles/Barkley competition would probably take place and we could have this fun all over again!

  • ACViking

    Re: Vick v. Foles
    I guess I’m not entirely clear how — after watching the Eagles’ defense against the Patriots — any evaluation of Foles and Vick playing against our own very raw, undermanned defensive unit is particularly illumnating. Especially with the d-backfield we have, the absence of tackling, and the ill-suited players ROLB and back-up LOLB.

    Likewise with regard to vanilla pre-season defenses in the exhibition games — with each player getting only 8-10 snaps in live action.

  • Ark87

    I need to see more. Vick had a big play and a 3 and out. Foles had a fumble and then shredded 2nd teamers. Vick has a lead on the eye test, but the sample size is woeful.

    • Andy124

      I made the same mistake on game night. It was actually a 4 and out. Completed for Cooper for 19 on 1st down.

      • Ark87

        my mistake, good catch.

        Overall with Vick, we know he can get the big play, we know he can move the ball. This team has always been about yards galore, but sustaining the drive as the field gets shorter, that’s what I want to see from Vick. The more drives we see, the more we can make out a trend. Will the trend be towards big play, sustained drives, or punts. Need to see more drives.

        Foles: we know he can dink, dunk, and manage the game well. I want to see him toss a good deep ball with pressure in his face. He doesn’t have as much arm strength as Vick, he can’t afford to compromise his mechanics to pressure, gotta see him do this.

    • ACViking

      Ark87 . . . there’s not sufficient pre-season game time for enough “more.” The other teams won’t allow it.

      • Ark87

        Well we will get more, just not enough. Just emphasizing my deferral of judgement to Chip, whose seen much more, and has been watching tape all summer.

        We’ve got people who’ve been watching the throws and results all summer (in the form of bloggers and such), however nobody but chip and his staff can evaluate all of the film, knowing all of the coverages and play calls to know whose playing the position better.

        • GEagle

          Exactly…impossible to truly know who is winning a close statistical battle when we don’t know how the play is supposed to look like against a given coverage

  • ACViking

    Re: Why the Veteran?

    Just a glance back at Eagles history . . . .

    Dick Vermeil came to the Eagles in 1976. He had 2 QBs to choose from: veteran Roman Gabriel, and 3rd-year QB Mike Boryla. (In ’75, Gabriel had clearly outplayed Boryla.) Vermeil made Gabriel the back-up in TC, and started Boryla from day 1.

    Why? Because the Eagles weren’t winning the SB in ’76. And the question for Vermeil was whether Boryla could be the franchise guy he could build around. He wasn’t. In fact, Vermeil finally turned back to Gabriel after 10 games of some really lousy QB play by the kid

    So Vermeil traded for Jaworski after the ’76 season and shipped Boryla to the Bucs.

    Jimmy Johnson let Troy Aikman get criminally battered on a weekly basis in their first season. That turned out okay, though.

    And Andy Reid’s approach, though a bit different, was all about getting McNabb ready.to the be the franchise guy. Fortunately, the Eagles front office guessed right on McNabb. But the point is, the Eagles were McNabb’s team and he needed some seasoning.
    _____________

    So turning to Kelly . . . I’m sorry he didn’t do what Vermeil did. Toss Foles out there and let him sink or swim. Keep Vick if you want, but look to the future.

    At this juncture, with this defense, I suspect it won’t matter much in January. Heck, Trent Cole is a 30 year-old DE trying to learn how to play OLB in the NFL. Dion Jordan had 4 years at Oregon to learn, and he still needs lots of polish. Graham? Same thing.

    [By comparison, the Steelers drafted Graham’s college teammate Lamar Woodley, a DE at Michigan, and kept him on the bench for a full year to learn how to play OLB. What the Eagles are doing, out of desperation unfortunately, is tough on Cole and Graham. But hats off to both for trying.]

    Do I care if the Eagles go 4-12 . . . because, boo-hoo, a Luck/Griffin/Manning clone’s not available? Jimmy Johnson sure didn’t worry about his record in Year 1 . . . because it was all about the future. And 3 years later, the ‘Boys were on the crest of greatness.

    No. I don’t care about 4-12 if the team is progressing. That’s all that should matter.

    I — and a few others who comment here — have lived through 2-12, 3-10-1, 2-11-1, 3-13, 4-10, 5-11, and 5-9 seasons. But most of the commenters here were spoiled by Reid’s success.

    The point is to have a plan, to make progress, and to find out who’s worth keeping I hope Kelly’s not sacrificing next year’s mortgage money for a roll of the dice this year with Vick.

    • Cafone

      I disagree. The NFC East is relatively weak. The Eagles could sneak into the playoffs and, if they do, anything could happen… ask the Giants.

      • GEagle

        Antrel Rolle hurt his leg today, not sure to what extent

      • Always Hopeful

        I agree that the East is weak, but on first look, our defense is not going to be deep run playoff quality this year (just a guess). Unlike the Giants who have turned it on at the right time in 2 of the past 5 seasons (still makes me shake my head).

        I’m actually torn between win now, or work toward immediate future success. I was disappointed when they re-signed Vick. I wanted to be done with him and start fresh with Foles or whomever else was drafted. However, they didn’t and as a fan I accept that.

        Vick still has enough ability to seduce most coaches. Many of us are just tired of the same ol’ same ol’ and are ready to move on from what has been a mostly fruitless endeavor (with Vick).

    • http://www.insidetheiggles.com/ CalSFro

      I think you’re spot on. And your reference above to a Jon Lovitz SNL skit only serves to further reinforce the accuracy of your point.

  • Mac

    What if Belichick told his guys to go easy on Vick to make it look like Chip has to make Vick his QB? He fears the Foles and Chip combo and knows he can eliminate his most dangerous SB opponent by forcing him to select the lesser QB.

    • ACViking

      Yeah . . . yeah . . . that’s the ticket.

    • Cafone

      I agree completely, and since they don’t play the Patriots this year that can only mean Belichick is worried about facing them in the Super Bowl.

  • JoeD

    won’t take away for what he did. But one good drive does not convince me his 10 years of mediocrity is behind him.

    • ACViking

      Remember, though, his future’s in front of him.

      • Mac

        That comment was so deep I fell into my basement.

        (edit: it is very true, we shouldn’t be too quick to bury Vick)

        • JoeD

          Why? He’s old, always injured, declining in athleticism, and he was never an elite passer..

          • Always Hopeful

            Joe, your comment makes too much sense. As a fan, I want to believe that if Kelly brought Vick back HE can be the one to maximize (and maybe even increase) Vick’s skills.

            Don’t bring up hard undeniable facts like propensity for injuries, declining athleticism, and history of mediocre passing. Those things bring too much reality and challenge my blind fanaticism.

            In other words: great points!

            My screen name gives me away though. I still hope that Kelly can somehow get it done with Vick. Pray for me!

          • JoeD

            I think most of us are all jaded Eagles fans and are looking for some glimmer of hope anywhere we can lol

    • Tom33

      There is nothing mediocre about Vick. He is either sensationally good or sensationally bad.

      Every year the narrative is something like “imagine how could he could be if we just eliminated the bad plays”, but so far, it just hasn’t happened.

      Maybe this offense is a better fit – I think we’ll find out.

      • JoeD

        As a quarterback,hes pretty mediocre. He’s really fast and athletic, but that doesn’t make you a good quarterback. It gives you a unique set of skills but ultimate as a quarterback you need to be able throw CONSISTENTLY well. For the large majority of his career he hasn’t done that.

  • BobSmith77

    “There’s an old saying in Philadelphia — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Philadelphia — that says, fool me once, shame on, shame on you. Fool me, you can’t get fooled again.”

    On Vick becoming a QB who isn’t a turnover machine who makes poor decisions in the red zone. The only issue is whether he stays healthy or not.

  • Cafone

    I’m not expecting to see anything sensational out of Foles, so it seems to me that the competition is Vick’s to lose. If he keeps playing well like we saw in the first game I expect him to be the starter.

    And, since everyone seems to be accusing others of twisting things to support “their” guy, I had been picking Foles to win the QB battle. I don’t have a Vick bias but I don’t see how you go with Foles if Vick isn’t making mistakes.

    And as others have pointed out, it’s not likely that either guy starts the first game and plays all 16 so we will probably get to see them both in actual game action this year. We may even see Barkley in there before the season is done.

    • GEagle

      I’m team Foles…and if Vick continues to play flawless football he should absolutely start….but I hate the argument that if Vick gets to start he isn’t going to play 16 games…If he isn’t going to play 16 games, then why wouldn’t he spend his starts giving more experience to our young men? Obviously we can’t predict injuries, but unless Vick is playing so good that you expect him to be able to keep his job the entire season, then I wouldn’t want to see him take developmental time away from ur young guys…

  • jtre

    We just traded G Nate Menkin to the Texans for WR Jeff Maehl. Maehl played for Chip at Oregon. More WR depth for camp

  • GEagle

    TRADE: Matt Tenant to Houston for former Ducks WR Meahl

    Some notable practice tweets from today(I only include ones confirmed by 3 sources)
    …Bad Day for Vick:
    Hits another fly swatters and all the reporters lament that they haven’t seen other QBs hit them…

    Fumbles two snaps..has a big miscommunication with Kelce Dogg

    FOles:
    ran the offense much faster
    ..
    Only QB to throw TDs on 11-11 redzone drills
    ..
    The Defense was Dominant today from the 1st team to the 3rd(Maybe the crucifixion of Cary Williams was premature)
    ..
    no reports of Cary getting beat today, and I heard he held his own against Desean

    Vinny Curry tweets: Great day of work. We got better today! (who would have thunk Cary might of actually motivated the guys lol?)
    ..
    Watkins was out with a concussion

    earl Wolff and Bennie Logan started with the 1’s…Billy Davis said it was just their turn in the rotation, and Wolff wouldn’t start tomorrow…however some reporters said he stayed in a lot more with the 1s(for Allen) then you would expect normally so it seemed like they gave him a legitimate look today.
    ..
    Connor Barwin lines up wide on Riley Cooper and is unleashed on a CB blitz

  • GEagle

    Oregon Ducker: We traded Matt Tennant today for former Duck WR Meahl….I know nothing about him other than he is a smaller WR…Can anyone speak on him?

    • jtre

      he’s not that small. 6’1 185. tied for Oregons all time touchdown record

      • GEagle

        oh nice…Jason Avantish….I hear varying oppinions from great athlete to ok athlete

        • jtre

          yea i wouldnt say hes a “great” athlete lol. hes slightly above average. Jason Avant is a good comparion. Maehl is know for good hands and route running. not a burner, think he ran a 4.5

    • Ark87

      I think the trade was for Nate Menkin.

      • GEagle

        It was I changed it..sorry….I had Tennant in my head all day

        • Ark87

          I know a few Menkin fans will be sad, nasty, physical, raw run blocker. Seemed like one of those high potential guys.

          Meahl can’t be too athletic to have an average frame and go undrafted. He can probably compete for a roster spot though if we traded one of our own guys sitting on the roster bubble.

  • eagleyankfan

    Interesting … just read the Eagles ran 80 offensive plays. Not that matters today — but what was their number of offensive plays last year?

    • GEagle

      We ran off 86 plays, which was the most in week 1 of the PS. Bills ran 85…who knows how many we could have got off if Vicks snaps were played with a fast tempo…we could have ripped off ATleast 90

      • eagleyankfan

        something to keep an eye on for sure …

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