2012 Redux?

Posted: September 30th, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 206 Comments »

Some of you brought up a very relevant criticism. Losing isn’t the end of the world. But all the sloppy play is incredibly frustrating. After all, isn’t that why Andy Reid was fired? Wasn’t Chip Kelly going to change that?

I totally get this and agree to a certain extent. There is a difference.

The players in 2012 were part of an offense that had been in place for years. The defense was just in Year 2 of that particular scheme, but the overall 4-3 had been there for decades. Players had a level of comfort with what they were doing and still made simple, bonehead mistakes.

Those players were hand-picked by Reid. He saw them as ideal fits for his schemes.

Chip Kelly inherited many of his players. Others are here as band-aids. A bad game by Cary Williams and Bradley Fletcher is different than a bad game by Nnamdi and DRC. This year’s CBs are here to get us through 2013. They weren’t looked at as long term solutions. Nnamdi and DRC were supposed to be the next Bobby and Troy.

Also consider that this season players are totally out of their comfort zone. They are learning new schemes and sometimes new roles. That isn’t an excuse for making mistakes. It is important in understanding why this is different than 2012. Many similar issues. But the mistakes should go away as the coaches and players work on them. If the mistakes don’t go away, there will be changes.

I do agree that seeing the team play badly today was highly frustrating. We all expected better than what we got. The honest answer is that we need time to put this in context.

Ray Rhodes lost to Oakland 48-17 on the road to fall to 1-3. He benched Randall Cunningham and made some other small lineup changes. The team played the 0-4 Saints the next week. The Eagles won, got hot and went to the playoffs.

Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 in his first year in Dallas.

Joe Gibbs started 0-5 in Washington.

There have also been plenty of coaches who started slow and never got better.

Every week people want to come to conclusions on Kelly. He’s been exposed. His offense has been exposed. And so on. I believe in Kelly. But whether you like or dislike him, we need time before we can come to any conclusions.

In his postgame PC, Kelly didn’t sound like a coach who was going to make changes for the sake of sending messages and shaking things up. He’ll adjust the lineup if he’s not happy with players, but don’t waste time waiting for”heads will roll” kind of stuff. Kelly is still in the process of figuring out which players he likes and which players fit his ideas. I know you hate this answer, but Kelly needs time.

As for getting angry at some of these games…I’m trying to give you advice based on my past. Back in 1995 I stewed in anger after the opening 3 losses. I was especially devastated by the loss to Tampa, 21-6. 1999 was even worse. The Eagles lost 19-5 to Tampa in Week 2. That drove me nuts. The next week, Reid’s Eagles lost 26-0 to Buffalo. I remember laying in my bed that afternoon and staring at the ceiling. The offense was horrible in 1998. The Eagles hired Reid to fix the offense and he produced one FG in 2 games? More of the same. Pure torture. What was the point of hiring Reid if he couldn’t fix the offense?

I wasted a lot of anger and rage in 1999. It took time for Reid to get those players coached up. It took him a while to get his guys in place. I was so desperate for the Eagles to get back to winning that dealing with bad losses was just overwhelming. Wasted rage. Be that way if you want this year, but I’m telling you from personal experience that it makes your life miserable.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t care. We all do. I’m just telling you not to live and die with results this year. At least not until next week when we get to 2-3 and we’re tied for the division lead.


206 Comments on “2012 Redux?”

  1. 1 Joe Minx said at 1:45 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Thanks for sharing your past stories of frustration Tommy. You are wise, sir.

  2. 2 TommyLawlor said at 2:40 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Wisdom comes from a lot of stupid things in my past.

  3. 3 Bob Brewer said at 1:45 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I guess I’m more frustrated/resigned that they look so far away from competing for a title. I just can’t get that mad at the result today. The Eagles are inferior to Denver.

  4. 4 JJVJACK said at 1:55 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I agree and this may have been covered. The TE’s are frustrating, we payed good money for one, drafted one high and still have Celek. We don’t seem to use them. I will say they all have had a problem a big problem with dropping the ball but thought TE was going to be a big part of the Offence.

  5. 5 Eagles_Fan_in_San_Fran said at 2:04 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Here, here, Tommy!
    Given all the changes, I look at the first 8 games this year as an extended preseason. What I’ll judge the season/coaches/players on is the last 8 games.
    The real problem here is 1) the Redskins game set everyone’s hopes WAY too high and 2) AR’s 4-0 record at KC is poking us in the eye.
    Hey, at least we’ve not that pile of dog-dodo that the Giants have become!

  6. 6 SHough610 said at 9:30 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    1) Totally agree. The Redskins appear to be a dumpster fire and we’ve lost to three very good teams.

    2) AR left the cupboard much more bare than the KC cupboard was. There was no Dontari Poe or Tamba Hali on our defense.

  7. 7 Anders said at 9:32 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    The Chiefs had:

    Pro bowl safety, pro bowl level CB, 3 pro bowl level LBs and are getting very good play out of Poe, Jackson and DeVito.

  8. 8 SHough610 said at 9:43 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Don’t forget about Dwayne Bowe and Jamal Charles on offense. And Andy Reid is a MAJOR upgrade over Romeo Crennel.

  9. 9 Anders said at 9:51 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    yea, but I think overall the offense was a downgrade, but the defense and ST has been such a major upgrade that AR can win games with less than good offense

  10. 10 SHough610 said at 9:55 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Just my .02 but as long as you hold opponents under 20 points you’re in the game.

  11. 11 Sokhar20 said at 1:03 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Not having Vick as your quarterback would be an improvement (in my book), even if the skill position players are sorta less talented.

  12. 12 fran35 said at 10:53 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Since we are on the topic of Reid and what he left us, I wanted to bring up a point. Reid stated on his way out of town that he left the franchise in a better state than when he entered. Now, if we talk accomplishments, that is true. However, personnel wise, we are absolutely worse. Reid inherited a very good defense with many key players in place. To that end, he actually enjoyed his early success because of Ray Rhodes drafts. McNabb was a big part, but the defense allowed him to play small ball and win.
    The team that he left us with seems bankrupt on defense. There is not one player on defense that I feel comfortable with saying “that’s our guy going forward”. Maybe Boykin, but it ends there. I am not convinced that Fletcher Cox will be a good 3-4 DE. I also have little faith in Mychal Kendricks putting it all together. He has looked terrible and wasn’t all that good last year. Vinny Curry can’t get on the field before Geathers, Thornton, and Damion Square. These guys would be lucky to have a job with another NFL team, but they are starters/significant role players here.

    Bottom line: I agree with you that Reid left this team a hot mess.

  13. 13 SHough610 said at 10:56 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Yeah, he left us some good pieces on offense (Shady, Maclin, and D-Jax) but those are luxuries. When AR came in there was already Dawk, Trotter, Hugh Douglas, Troy Vincent, and Bobby Taylor… That’s some good talent.

  14. 14 Anders said at 10:57 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    100% agree. This team is much worse in terms of overall talent than the 1999 team.

  15. 15 shah8 said at 2:12 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    It’s not like anything as bad as what Bucs fans have to deal with, but the whole rookie thing is apparent as a head coach. I did think a bit about how things would have been different with Lovie Smith or Hue Jackson, then I sorta shrugged in my mind.

  16. 16 Finlay Jones said at 8:33 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    But Bucs fans suck, the stadium was empty yesterday. We’re 13-23 since the start of 2011 season,.

  17. 17 SHough610 said at 9:55 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    The only person I’d rather have running this team besides Chip is Gus Bradley.

  18. 18 T_S_O_P said at 2:12 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I’m knackered and have just arisen after a late night and not a great sleep. I can only hope that my delivery today at a local seminar is better than the team responsible for both my state of tiredness. I’m not sure my audience will understand, maybe they’ll think I was in London for the live game.

    For me, yesterday was definitely part of the process. Offensively, Chip faced exactly what he is trying to bring. There are folks in the Hall of Fame that stand above those around them, Peyton Manning would be a first ballot Hall of Fame’s Hall of Fame. Incredible! And hasn’t Denver taken on the persona of the face of their franchise (a very long one it should be noted). It seems we have too – frustratingly inconsistent.

    Anyway, I’m not ending this on a down note, because Chris Polk made a run last night that me me whoop and holla, some may have seen my only entry last night (afternoon). It was also part of a very crisp well executed drive. Today, as I cycle to work, I’m wearing my DUUUUCE shirt in honour of that.

  19. 19 TommyLawlor said at 2:39 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Great perspective. Good luck at the seminar.

  20. 20 SteveH said at 2:54 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    For me, the Broncos game was a bit of a foregone conclusion. Peyton Manning has had the greatest statistical first quarter in the history of the NFL. The Broncos are keeping up with all time records for points scored, yards, etc. Quite simply, we ran into a juggernaut that has put up obscene numbers on every team its faced thus far, including the defending super bowl champions.

    More importantly in judging this team and Chip Kelly, I think, is how the team responds over the next few games.

    Let’s examine what’s happened so far. We blew out a Redskins team that is probably a bottom 10 team in the league, if not at the end of the season then certainly over the first quarter. We played a tough, close game with a San Diego team that we now know is probably better than we thought at the time we played them (and who the Cowboys lost to in similar fashion, if we’re looking at a benchmark within the division). We managed to keep the game close with the Chiefs despite the fact that we played some of the sloppiest football imaginable, and we now know that the Chiefs are possibly a playoff caliber team.

    Through 3 games, despite the 1-2 record, I think we actually looked better than many of us hoped for. The fact that we couldn’t keep up with the Broncos (who by the way, are outpacing the 2007 Patriots by nearly 40 points now) is not shocking. We are a team with brand new coaches, schemes, and plenty of players. The Broncos are the best team in the league who are having the hottest start in the history of the modern NFL. Getting creamed by those guys makes complete sense to me.

    Now Chip Kelly has a chance to show what he can do in the face of adversity. We just came off a crushing defeat, but we’re finally playing some bad teams again. The next two games come against the reeling Giants and the dysfunctional Bucs. These 2 games are a great opportunity for the team and Chip to show that they have resiliency and can bounce back after adversity. It’s also a chance to not have to play one of the top teams in the league after back to backs against undefeateds.

    I think these 2 games will tell us a lot more about Chip and this Eagles squad than getting plastered by the Denver Manning Machines will. Bounce back, take care of business against vulnerable squads, show that we can handle our business in the games that we’re supposed to win.

  21. 21 BlindChow said at 3:32 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    “…we now know that the Chiefs are possibly a playoff caliber team.”

    They’ve played the Cowboys, Jaguars, Giants and us. Arizona was 4-0 last year, too. We’ll see what happens when they start playing better teams.

    Besides, I don’t think losing to the Broncos itself is what is upsetting everyone. I keep seeing people respond to the pessimism by smugly asking “Well, what did you expect??” But the team looking worse and worse in all aspects of play was not something we had reason to foresee.

    I agree the next two games will tell us a lot. We may not like what we hear.

  22. 22 SteveH said at 9:59 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Honestly I didn’t think we started playing really poorly until the second half when Peyton went god mode on us. We managed to keep things reasonably tight throughout the first half (Holiday’s KR was troubling though, gotta clean that up). In the 2nd half though I thought we lost confidence and started playing listlessly. Would have loved to see a little more in game resiliency but I can see how they would get demoralized.

    The Chiefs thumped the bad teams they played and handled the ones closer to mediocre. I think they’ll be on the cusp of a berth or in the playoffs this year. I don’t expect a super bowl run though, they don’t have the offensive talent to hang with the top dogs. But who knows, any given Sunday right?

  23. 23 Sokhar20 said at 1:09 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    And the Chiefs still get to play the Raiders (twice), Browns, Bills, Redskins, and potentially inconsistent Chargers (twice). Plus if the Chiefs are actually good they might snag a couple games from the Titans, Texans, Colts, or Broncos. Still early in the season, but I fully expect the Chiefs to end up with 10 or so wins, and make the playoffs as a wild card. If they didn’t play in the west then their odds of being division champs would be pretty high.

  24. 24 phillychuck said at 4:56 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I know we see playing the Giants and Bucs as a great opportunity, but the Giants and Bucs see playing us the same way.

  25. 25 SteveH said at 10:01 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Good point, I guess I prefer it that way. If we can’t scrap with the bad teams trying to steal one from us, I guess we know how far we really have to go!

  26. 26 Finlay Jones said at 8:34 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Both chargers wins are vs the NFC LEast

  27. 27 T_S_O_P said at 12:11 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    I like that, maybe Jimmy K should restart his blog in paper format and call it Logging the lEast.

  28. 28 Cafone said at 3:15 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I expected the Broncos to savage our defense. I think everyone did. Our defense is a few levels below mediocre.

    But I am disappointed in the play of our offense. I expected more there. It seemed like Shady never had a decent hole to run through today. Riley Cooper is never open and Avant was missing in action. Obviously that dropped ball by Celek at the goal line was huge.

    For what we are getting out of the receivers surrounding DeSean Jackson, it makes me think that maybe we would have been better off keeping young guys like Salas and Shepard, particularly in place of Cooper who, now that he has gotten a chance, has proven without a doubt that he is not talented enough to play WR in the NFL. At least the younger guys had a chance to be good in the future. Avant is what he’s always been: average. The rest of the guys you could cut tomorrow and not lose a step.

  29. 29 BlindChow said at 3:38 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I’m just disappointed that Kelly didn’t use those 10 days between games to come up with an adjustment to his offense in case teams tried duplicating the gameplan KC used.

    Is he just counting on other teams not having the personnel to do it?

  30. 30 Always Hopeful said at 5:33 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    That’s where I put my hope: the 10 day lay off, refresh and do some tinkering.

    Yet, after seeing yesterday’s game, is it more of a question of guys on the roster who “can’t” versus Chip’s schemes “don’t” ?

    I think we know that we have plenty of guys that “can’t” on this team on both sides of the ball, but I’m hoping Chip comes up with something these next few weeks.

    All I want for Christmas is some improvement!

  31. 31 Anders said at 8:11 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Cooper is a fine 4th WR type, same with Avant as a 3rd WR, but they should never be focal points of an offense.

    Salas and Sheppard would not have been helping. Neither could get separation against 2nd and 3rd string CBs

  32. 32 Jerry Pomroy said at 1:33 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Cooper and the other receivers not being a legit threat allow the opposing defenses to key in on DJax by pressing him at the line & rolling a Safety deep as backup if he does get off the line.

    Speaking of threats, where in the hell are our TEs & utilizing them as a mismatch?

  33. 33 fran35 said at 11:00 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    OK, I agree that the WR corps have been not looking great. However, that is exacerbated by a QB who has to wait for a guy to look open before he throws the ball.
    The offensive line did very well in pass blocking, but our QB held the ball for 8 seconds a few times. As far as run blocking, its kind of hard to run when the defense is stacking the box to stop the run and daring you to throw.
    On the upside, Vick didnt turn the ball over. So he deserves at least 12 more starts……

  34. 34 Always Hopeful said at 5:37 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Vick’s strength isn’t “throwing guys open” Not too many NFL QBs have that as a strength actually.

    Vick’s supreme confidence in himself (not to mention the pressure of trying to match points with Peyton…he watched our defense just like we did) to make a play out of nothing keeps the ball in his hand most times.

    Don’t where the balance in that is though. I’m usually yelling at the TV: throw it away! I don’t care how long you hold it seems like nobody was open many times.

  35. 35 terrapinmoon said at 1:23 PM on October 1st, 2013:

    we move the ball down the field pretty darn well when we dont make stupid mistakes…like holding or illegal formation….problem is this team has been virtually paralyzed in the red zone…we need to use our backs down there and move the line forward…we need 7 not 3 after a 70 yard drive…if we can just get over that red zone hump, this is a great offense..until then, it’s suspect in my book…no matter how flashy or explosive….I see a 40 yard catch or run and the guy goes down at the 5 yard line…I’m conditioned now to expect 3 points…thats sad

  36. 36 BlindChow said at 3:34 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Last year the Eagles started, 3-1, then went 1-11. This year, the Eagles started 1-3. So it looks to me we’re right on schedule to go 11-1 in our next 12 games…

  37. 37 ceedubya9 said at 7:29 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I like how you think!

  38. 38 A_T_G said at 7:30 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    And if you extend that thinking to the fact that we were winless in the playoffs last year…

  39. 39 TommyLawlor said at 10:42 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Brilliant, BC.

  40. 40 Cafone said at 6:36 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    From Domowitch’s “Did you Notice?” column on philly.com: “Eagles wide receiver Jeff Maehl’s inability to get off a block opened the hole that kickstarted Trindon Holliday’s 105-yard kickoff return for a touchdown.”

    No, I didn’t notice that. Thanks Paul.

    Isn’t his supposed ability on special teams the only reason Maehl is on the roster? If Domo’s observation is correct and he can’t get off blocks in kickoff coverage, then how about we get someone in here who can? It’s not like the guy is ever going to get on the field as a receiver, and we’re talking about a team that is playing a marginal backup caliber player (Cooper) as a starter.

  41. 41 A_T_G said at 7:29 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I had read somewhere that Goode got out of his lane, opening the hole. One could still draw the same conclusion regarding either player.

  42. 42 James Adair said at 2:15 PM on October 1st, 2013:

    I noticed someone clenched in a Spalding Guide hold right next to him though. Maehl had contain and he contained. The hold ion Poyer iss what broke the play.

  43. 43 GermanEagle said at 6:37 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    A few Eagles fans didn’t understand my frustration with the Eagles last night. Someone even called me out, calling me indirectly a Negadelphian.
    I am glad that this loss has brought the anger and passion back. I didn’t get overly excited about the first games of the season, and the losses to the Chargers and Chiefs haven’t really bothered me. In fact I was kind of passion-less.
    I am fully aware that we have lost against arguably the best team in football. However I was hoping to see a little bit more competitive Eagles team last night. Being shut down (not counting the Eagles TD in garbage time) 31-0 in the second half felt like one of the worst 30 minutes in the last decade to me, bringing back the nigthmare memories of 2012.
    I still stand by my comment that Chip Kelly’s playcalling in the first half could have been better. If not going all out (or all in, however you want to spin it) against the all-time great Peyton, when then? The playcalling was too conservative in my eyes, and although the score was only a one posession game, I knew straight away that this won’t be enough.
    Don’t get me wrong, I am still excited about the hiring of Chip Kelly and am of the opinion that he will turn this young Eagles team around, however the first quarter of this season has really brought lots of growing pains, more than I was expecting to be honest.
    Re being critical of the Eagles team in general. I think every fan has the right to do so, without wanting to throw everyone under the bus, especially after sleeping a night over such a tough loss. I have been an Eagles die-hard fan since the days of Randall Cunningham, and have been watching every Eagles game LIVE (when technically possible), no matter what time of the day (and night). I am getting up at half 1 (or 2) in the morning, and have never ever turned off the TV before the end of the game, not even in the worst losses. Being critical and a passionate fan maybe brings out the frustration and anger in me, but I would never consider myself a Negadelphian, coming up with TATE-r like stereotypes. But the people who have been knowing me on here know that. At least I hope so.

  44. 44 eagleyankfan said at 8:09 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I think you’re missing the point — if you point out the flaws of the Eagles — no matter how true they are — you’re a negadelphian. There’s no such thing as a “realistic-adelphian”. So please — stop be realistic.

  45. 45 GermanEagle said at 8:40 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Fair enough hairy muff. I try to stop being realistic. 😉

  46. 46 anon said at 8:33 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Yeah — to be fair sort of looked like what we’re used to from the Eagles. This is a rebuilding team that was 20 under cap, w/ no real defensive talent to speak of (pro bowl calibur). I also don’t think we have the coaching at a positional level to get us there (RBs aside). Our DC is terrible. And that’s what this looks like.

  47. 47 Finlay Jones said at 8:36 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    How were you not annoyed by the loss to chargers? any one of 4 or 5 things go differently and we win. we should have won that game.

  48. 48 GermanEagle said at 8:56 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Exactly. I was starting to get worried about this lack of annoyance. But since yesterday I am back to my old self. 🙂

  49. 49 BlindChow said at 11:42 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I wasn’t annoyed by that loss because it was so close. Being competitive (and very successful on offense) was quite a change from last year, where we did everything we could to lose games.

  50. 50 Anders said at 8:44 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    If you didnt expect this much growning pain. I think you was drinking a bit too much kool-aid.

    Also we have lost two a 3-1 team, and two 4-0 teams.

    We now face the 0-4 Giants, the 0-4 Bucs lead by Glennon and the 1-3 Raiders with there only win against the 0-4 Jags.

    We have a great chance to be 3-3 in three weeks.

  51. 51 GermanEagle said at 8:58 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I wouldn’t say “great” chance, but certainly better. Not sure if the Eagles will win both games against the Giants and Bucs though, no matter how lost these two teams may be looking these days.

  52. 52 Anders said at 9:04 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    The Giants OL is crappy times crap and that defense will force some turnovers, but cant stop anybody. They do not have a CB there can match with Jackson like the Chiefs or Broncos had

  53. 53 eagleyankfan said at 9:09 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    no no no — someone one this board said the Bronco’s D is over rated and couldn’t wait for the Eagles to face them. I forget who that was….(I disagreed with that person)
    You sir, have the post of the day “crappy times crap” is funny :).

  54. 54 BlindChow said at 11:39 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I, too, have lost the faith. I learned the dangers of optimism after last year, and this year’s Eagles are just reinforcing those lessons.

    Luckily, their performance is completely independent of my pessimism, so if next week’s game results in Foles coming in for mop-up work in the 4th quarter (the good kind of mop-up work), they may yet turn me around…

  55. 55 eagleyankfan said at 9:02 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    you have to be excited with the thought of facing the Giants. Can’t wait. Should a fun game. Throw out all the records when these two teams meet up…

  56. 56 Cafone said at 6:56 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I saw this on a forum discussing the KC/NYG game:

    “Andy Reid challenged a spot and it was overturned. McAulay said ‘Philadelphia will not be charged with a timeout.’ Oops.”

  57. 57 A_T_G said at 7:24 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Why “oops?” We weren’t charged a timeout, were we?

  58. 58 ceedubya9 said at 7:26 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I’ve done a good job so far not getting too frustrated over how things are going right now. Everything is so new this year, and while we all want the team to do well, we still have pull expectations back a bit and realize that this team is growing. I truly believe things will get better. They aren’t a legit playoff team yet, but they could still get there by winning a very winnable NFC East. If they can do that, then that would be considered a very successful season, imo. I just want to see them improve each week and put themselves into position to win the East.

  59. 59 eagleyankfan said at 8:06 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    One small difference between now and when Reid took the helm. Reid had the QB of the future on his roster. Chip has..has..he has… a RT of the future.
    I agree with Chow(I think it was Chow) — that said — with PLENTY of time to prepare — why did Chip run the same offense. I can only come up with 2 possible reasons. 1 — Maybe Chip knows that they just can’t handle changes like that on a weekly basis? Or 2 — Learn something you’re good at — and become great at doing that “something”. This team hasn’t really perfected the execution on offense yet. The team is still learning the base offense? (I’m trying to find any answer as to why)
    Chip hand picked Ertz as well.
    Beli-cheater has 7 rookies and 7 undrafted free agents on his current roster. Those numbers might not be exact, but they are pretty close. That young wr of his has more talent than any active wr on the Eagles. It’s amazing how Beli-cheater constantly finds these guys.
    This team is right on target. Don’t change a thing. I want a top 3 pick next year.

  60. 60 Anders said at 8:09 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Belichick has Tom Brady as his QB.

    Also go look up how pathetic Belichick is at drafting WRs. Also Jackson > Thompkins. If Jackson was playing with a HOF QB, he would have godlike stats.

  61. 61 eagleyankfan said at 8:15 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    If woody would have gone right to the police, this would never have happened. Jackson would be the same no-matter who the qb. Why? Because he’s not smart enough to play for NE. GREAT, as I guess you’re assuming DJ is — great WR’s don’t need a HOF qb to be dominate. Who’s that TE that’s dominating on Cleveland(I know his name). I guess he has a HOF QB. I guess we can put Dalton in the HOF too. I know, now the excuse would be — DJ isnt big enough or the sun was in his eyes…

  62. 62 anon said at 8:27 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Yeah it’s ard for a 5’8″ guy to really dominate. Looking at the pats guys they are taller dudes.

  63. 63 Anders said at 8:41 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    No but calling a WR playing with a HOF QB more talented than Jackson is BS.

  64. 64 eagleyankfan said at 8:55 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    So – you’re saying Jackson would be more talented because the QB would make him better? That’s what I call BS. I guess Romo is the greatest qb ever because he’s making Dez Bryant look great.

  65. 65 Anders said at 9:07 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    No, what Im saying is that Jackson is more talented than Hompkins.

    Also look down in Arizona regarding what QB means for a WR.

  66. 66 eagleyankfan said at 9:11 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Now Palmer is great? Wholly cow. Did you see him in Oakland?

  67. 67 Anders said at 9:14 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    No Palmer is not great, but upgrading from what ever crap they had last year to a below average QB have made him look better.

    All Im saying is that great QBs can make average WRs look good. Average QB (Romo) with great WR, is a good combo.

    Jackson is still on pace towards 1500+ yards and 8 TDs despite facing two great secondaries. The next 3 weeks we play 2 crappy secondaries and an elite one. I guess Jackson have at least 250 yards receiving during the next games

  68. 68 eagleyankfan said at 9:28 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I’m with you on this. I do hope DJ shreds them.
    So to understand your point — are you saying DJ is great and Vick is not even “ok”? I can agree with you there.

  69. 69 Anders said at 9:31 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I think Jackson is just below elite tier (AJ Green, Dez Bryant, C Johnson etc tier) and Vick bounces between great and Mark Sanchez level.

  70. 70 eagleyankfan said at 9:32 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    🙂 …

  71. 71 Jerry Pomroy said at 11:35 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    DJax is what he is. I’d agree that he’s a notch below those guys & what holds him back from being in that elite tier is his size. Small guys need space or to create space by utilizing their speed & quickness. It’s no secret that he’ll lose a lot of battles in press coverage to larger defenders that jam him at the line or rolling a deep safety over the top as insurance if he does get off the line. This is where you need to create space by utilizing motion & deception & also being able to beat them underneath with your TEs or a second receiver that is big & strong enough to bust through the press coverage & can scorch the secondary. Unfortunately, Cooper is not that guy & DJax is not guy that can be utilized to full potential without someone to compliment him & be their own threat.

  72. 72 Jerry Pomroy said at 11:08 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Guys… no need to even discuss why Vick or Foles or even Barkley are the QB this year. They are also “band aids”. The Eagles will draft a QB. They pretty much have to if they are true to their word that they are trying to build this team the right way & the ONLY way you’re going to get a playoff/SB contending/franchise QB is to draft one. The odds of getting lucky enough to trade for one or even sign one in FA are slim to none. If you do, it’s for a guy that’s at the tail end of his career (ie; Peyton or you could even argue Alex Smith). These types have maybe 2-3yrs left, at which time you’ll be looking for a QB once again & most likely in a worse position draft-wise to do so. So in going after a guy like that you better be going all in & have the talent around them to be a legit SB contender. The Eagles are not even close to that & seem to want to lean on being a team built from within to sustain competitiveness for the next decade.

    So relax a bit. This year is all about Chip getting his feet wet & seeing what works, what doesn’t, as well as evaluating the personnel on the field.

  73. 73 RobNE said at 8:11 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    My frustration is in wondering how we get from here to there. Watching these games makes me wonder whether the talent level is so bare that it will take years and years to turn this around, and the longer it takes the more players you have to replace (like Ryans and Peters, e.g.).
    And this is looking far ahead and I know drafting is imperfect, etc., but it still seems like we end up 5-11 to 9-7 and with a mediocre pick, while teams like the SB winning Steelers and Giants can scoop up QB prospects that we need so badly (or some other prospect on D, etc.). I know that’s an aside, but as we’ve discussed – what are we doing this year?

  74. 74 Anders said at 8:14 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    The SB winning Steelers and Giants are this bad for a reason. One the Giants was overrated winning those two SBs (two of the worst regular season SB winning teams in the history of the NFL). The Steelers have been overrated since 2008 and Mike Tomlin is not a good HC (look how terrible his team is now that all that talent Cowher drafted for him is no longer there or in their prime).

    I doubt the Giants or the Steelers will draft a QB. They have so many other holes on their roster and QB is not one of them.

  75. 75 eagleyankfan said at 8:48 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    defense wins 🙂

  76. 76 Anders said at 8:50 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    defense wins what?

  77. 77 eagleyankfan said at 8:52 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Superbowls. That’s how Pitt and Giants won.

  78. 78 Insomniac said at 8:18 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Bad drafts amounting to nothing gets you a poor team. I’m more annoyed by the people who wants Vick out of here because Foles and Maehl scored during garbage time.

    I wonder how Jarret is doing for the Jets? He can’t be as bad as Allen.

  79. 79 eagleyankfan said at 8:34 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    well — give a valid reason why Vick should be the QB. I get tired of reading excuses. I brought up Brady for a reason. I know, Vick is NOT Brady. However – do you see the wr’s and te’s Brady is throwing to? I watch Brady a lot and boy does he get pissed off when his wr’s/te’s drop the ball — and they drop the ball a lot. Brady isn’t looking for excuses. Brady makes the people around him better. Eagles fans expect people around Vick to make HIM better. It’s his OL or it’s his wr’s blah blah blah. When does Vick step up and make these players better? Isn’t that what great QB’s do?(make people around them better?)

  80. 80 Bob Brewer said at 8:38 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Vick isn’t a great QB, but the fact that Foles couldn’t beat him out should say something too.

  81. 81 Finlay Jones said at 8:39 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    This is disingenous reasoning, discounting how well Vick played in the first 3 games, and Kelly’s obvious disposition for a mobile QB. Foles scored on a higher % of his drives in the preseason than vick did, iirc.

  82. 82 Bob Brewer said at 8:56 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    If you read every account of every Eagles beat reporter during training camp, the overwhelming belief was that Vick won the job. There were very few (and I don’t recall any) who thought that Foles won the job.

  83. 83 Finlay Jones said at 8:59 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    What are you talking about? I didn’t disagree with any of that. You basically said “vick isnt very good, so foles must be even worse” which is a bad argument primarily because it discounts how well Vick played in the first games of the preseason (much better than he is playing now)

  84. 84 Bob Brewer said at 9:01 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I think it’s very valid reasoning. If Foles was great he would have won the job, similar to Russell Wilson.

    But he didn’t.

  85. 85 Anders said at 9:08 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    The “great” Russell Wilson won his job over Matt Flynn and T Jackson.

    Vick even at his worst is a better QB than both of those combined.

  86. 86 eagleyankfan said at 9:12 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Let me guess. Vick is better than A. Smith too?

  87. 87 Anders said at 9:15 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Totally different QBs.

    I rather have Vick than Smith, but I also want a QB there can complete a pass over 30 yards.

  88. 88 eagleyankfan said at 9:30 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    That’s the knock on Foles too right? That he can’t throw. I think Foles is closer to Smith. If Smith can succeed with the lesser talent he has on his team, I do think Foles can play well here. But that’s only a guess.

  89. 89 Anders said at 9:34 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Foles can complete long passes. Foles arm strength is much better than Smith and Foles actually believe he can complete a long pass. Some of it for Smith is simply mental.

    I do think that Foles would be a better QB for us when Jackson cant run wild.

    Also dam I miss Maclin to open up the offense some more.

  90. 90 anon said at 12:14 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    I think a Smith-like QB only really works if you have a defense that can back you up. With the Eagles every game will be a shoot out, so we have to be able to keep up.

  91. 91 Bob Brewer said at 9:24 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Complete strawman eagleyankfan. Foles and Vick were competing against each other, not A. Smith.

  92. 92 eagleyankfan said at 9:28 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I was addressing Anders — see his reply below…

  93. 93 Bob Brewer said at 9:15 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I think so too, but Foles wasn’t competing for a job against T. Jackson and M. Flynn. He was competing against M. Vick and by all accounts Vick was better.

    That’s not a ringing endorsement for Foles.

  94. 94 anon said at 12:12 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    T Jackson could be a legit QB…he always looks great in garbage time.

  95. 95 Anders said at 12:21 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    I was high on Jackson to start his career, thought he made sense to bring in as McNabbs replacement.

  96. 96 eagleyankfan said at 8:59 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    and good thing Vick won. Because if Foles had won it — the Eagles would have a losing record…oh wait…never mind.

  97. 97 Bob Brewer said at 9:03 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    What does that have to do with anything? Vick isn’t good enough. Foles isn’t good enough.

  98. 98 eagleyankfan said at 9:06 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    How exactly do you know? I don’t know. I only know about Vick because he’s played in games that count. Pre-season means squat. Until we see Foles in extended regular season games — how do we really know. There is one thing we do know that’s a fact. Andy Reid, the guy who sticks up for Vick more than ANYBODY — benched Vick to let Foles play. That’s a fact.

  99. 99 Bob Brewer said at 9:14 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    So you are making the leap that practice and preseason performance, where Vick was “better”, are worthless and Foles should be in there because of what? Hope? You have to make a decision based on something besides he’s not Vick.

  100. 100 eagleyankfan said at 9:21 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    statistically– as pointed out earlier by someone else — Foles WAS better. We can’t make those numbers up. My point is — preseason is just a handful of plays. I don’t think that’s anywhere near enough of an evaluation of a QB(including Vick). You can’t judge a qb by preseason. You can only get as many reps in to prepare. That’s the best you can hope for. Now that the season has started, we know what Vick can(or can’t do). What harm does it do to let Foles or even Barkley play? Worse case scenario — they Eagles lose. Maybe they lose 4 in row. After 4 games though, we’ll know what Foles can/can’t do. My point is — until that happens, how will we ever know?

  101. 101 Bob Brewer said at 9:40 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Where is this statistical analysis coming from that Foles was better. Here are the two preseason game results before the announcement was made…

    vs. NE.
    Vick 1TD, 1 punt
    Foles 1TD, 1 fumble

    vs. CAR
    Foles 1TD, 1 Interception
    Vick, 1 TD, 1 Polk Fumble, 1 hail mary INT

    If you’re going to count that drive that started with 24 seconds at the end of the second quarter, then go right ahead. I guess your point is “technically” correct. But almost every beat reporter thought Vick won the job after game 2.

  102. 102 eagleyankfan said at 10:57 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    those are nice numbers that don’t mean anything. Give me percentage completion. qb ratings. How many passes you talking about? Can’t give broad numbers like that to make a point. Vick 1 td, 1 int. (did vick throw 3 or 30 times)? Foles, 1 td, 1 fumble(Did Foles throw 3 or 30 times)? Who was Foles throwing to(the starters or back ups?) Same question for Vick. You see, that’s my point. You can’t compare 2 qb’s in preseason because they are not given the same variables to play with.

  103. 103 Bob Brewer said at 11:08 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    The stat quoted above was that Foles scored on a higher percentage of his drives, which was false this preseason.

    About the other numbers, I’m not going to bother looking them up. It’s just that every beat reporter thought Vick won the job from what they saw.

  104. 104 eagleyankfan said at 11:14 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    A couple of things — 1) the majority of them said Foles lost it after this INT. Which is BS. 2) the rest of them said that there never was any competition, that it was Vick all along. Vick is starting for the same reason why T-Law said chip brought in those 2 corners. Band aides.

  105. 105 anon said at 12:11 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    You were obviously watching baseball this summer. CK with through pains to make sure that each QB got an equal number of snaps / series with the first and second teams respectively. The difference was 2 things really, Foles had 2 pressure turnovers and a few more fumbled snaps, and Foles couldn’t throw the deep ball. Vick was also the lockerroom leader. No one would say Foles played poorly, Vick just played better. Vick also had the lockerroom.

    I think Foles is a poor man’s Alex Smith, except with the turnovers. Problem is that we don’t have a defense that can stop anyone.

  106. 106 Dave said at 8:18 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Tommy, when or how do you think Chip addresses the QB play? We heard all spring and summer that Chip was looking for a QB to make quick decisions and get the ball out of their hands accurately and let the playmakers make something happen. Vick did this in the first 2 preseason games and during the first half of the Redskins game. The past 3.5 games, he looks more like Donny than I care to admit…holding onto the ball and waiting to see the white of a receiver’s eyes before throwing. Surely Chip would not have chosen Vick to be the starter if he held onto the ball this long in the preseason.

  107. 107 Insomniac said at 8:27 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Who are we going to throw to in the first place?

  108. 108 Dave said at 8:37 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Take your pick…

    Brent Celek
    Emil Igwenagu
    James Casey
    Zach Ertz
    Riley Cooper
    Jason Avant
    DeSean Jackson
    Damaris Johnson
    Jeff Maehl
    LeSean McCoy
    Bryce Brown
    Chris Polk

  109. 109 Daniel said at 9:27 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I think when the All 22 comes out…it will show these guys are not being their coverages in the majority of plays.

  110. 110 holeplug said at 12:40 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    teams were defending the eagles completely differently in the preaseson

  111. 111 Finlay Jones said at 8:32 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    in defense, 31st scoring defense, 28th in opponents points per play,
    26th 3rd down conversion, 25th opponent yards per point, 23rd ints, 16th
    sacks, 9th fumble recoveries. #billydavis

  112. 112 anon said at 8:34 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Hard to tell the difference btw here, SF or Arizona. Bright spot no turnovers today, but ST was terrible. It always seems like one group doesn’t show up.

  113. 113 BlindChow said at 11:25 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    We’ve played some good offenses; the real test begins when we start playing crap teams like TB and the Giants. If those numbers hold by the time we play Dallas, it’s going to be a REAL ugly year…

  114. 114 Finlay Jones said at 11:31 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Obviously they are skewed bad from just playing Peyton.
    However, I think you’re over rating the other offenses we’ve played.

  115. 115 Mac said at 11:46 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    You might be under-rating Philip Rivers.

    And outside of the Rivers and Manning games the Defense has played good enough to win games.

  116. 116 Anders said at 11:58 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Manning is no. 1 passing yards, RG3 is 5th and Rivers is 6th.

    So yea we have played some pretty good QBs so far.

    Eli is 8th (tho almost half of that came against the Cowboys). Glennon is 31st in yards/game and Pryor is 29th.

  117. 117 Jamie Parker said at 8:39 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Vermeil started 2-2 on his way to a 4-10 initial season.
    Campbell started 4-2 before the wheels fell off.
    Buddy started 1-3 on his way to a 5-10-1 first season.
    Kotite started 3-1 and almost made an improbably run to the playoffs with jeff Kemp.
    Ray Rhodes started 1-3 on his way to the playoffs his first year.
    Andy started 0-4 before flushing us of Michael Irving and beating the Cowboys.
    Now Chip Kelly has started 1-3.

    You mentioned Joe Gibbs starting 0-5.
    How about Tom Landry going 0-11-1 in his first season? How did that turn out?

    It’s not how you start that counts. It’s how you finish.

  118. 118 Anders said at 8:46 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Bill Walsh 2-14 then 6-10 before they won a SB in his 3rd year.

    Bill Belichick was 36-44 in Cleveland and started 5-11 with NE before he stumpled upon a HOF qb

  119. 119 eagleyankfan said at 8:51 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    you aint kidding….what a lucky find that was too….might have even defined his head coaching career with that draft pick alone…

  120. 120 Anders said at 9:09 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    He was crap HC before. Now he is a HOF coach.

  121. 121 nickross23 said at 8:45 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    This time last yr we where 3-1 and things where looking up after a Sunday night win over the giants, then the wheels fell off the bus completely. Now here we are at 1-3 after getting are ass handed to us, where do we go from here..well i hope we can turn it on. After a display like that every man in that locker room must look themselves in the mirror and say enough is enough. Play for pride

  122. 122 Daniel said at 8:54 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    As far as heads rolling, the only thing I wouldn’t be surprised to see whoever gave up the kick return TD cut or benched.

    My big concern now is what the heck is going on with the OL?

    My second biggest concern (and I voiced this last season) is even when Vick has protection, our receivers still have no separation. He constantly needs to thread a needle.

  123. 123 Daniel said at 9:19 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    And what the hell is going on with Alex Henery!?

  124. 124 new coach said at 9:06 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I think the way to look at it is that we were a bad team last year. What we need is improvement and steps forward:

    On Defense- the run D is improved. They have allowed only one run over 20 yards. passing D is still garbage- new faces, same result

    On offense- passing is better. Vick is playing better. running game is very good.

    going forward, we need many pieces on defense. Hopefully, Chip doesn’t just seek out more toys on offense and forget about D. I would think Howie wouldn’t allow that,

    Problem is, we need a QB that can move the ball consistently. Vick did that in the first half. If not, as Peyton said earlier in the year, we’d just go 3 and out and the D would be on the field too much.

    Unrealistic to hope for playoffs, with so much help needed on D. Realistically, last great D we had was over 5 years ago. Hard to say we added any pieces this past off-season either that will help in the future.

  125. 125 SHough610 said at 9:28 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Worth remembering: in Andy Reid’s first year Peyton’s Colts beat us 44-17. I know it’s not the same thing, but there are going to be rough games. What worries me is that Bill Davis might not be the answer at DC.

  126. 126 new coach said at 9:31 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Question for people here- In the first game, it was emphasized how we used so many unconventional and interesting formations and kept the D on their toes. (example- tackles lined up outside). Are we still doing that or was that just CHip showing off the first game, and now he has settled in to a more conventional fast break style)

  127. 127 Anders said at 9:36 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    We are still doing some of it, but overall the offense is not executing base assignments, so it wont really matter. (unbalanced lines is nothing new. The Niners do it all the time)

  128. 128 anon said at 11:04 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Plus a lot of the scheme stuff really works when you get into a rhythm with no huddle, but we haven’t been able to do that to date. Scheme relies too much on players getting open. If we can’t beat man coverage we’re f’ed but there’s gotta be a way to scheme around that.

    At the same time, any team that loses 2 starting WRs and doesn’t replace them would be in the same spot. I’m really sort of discouraged by our TE / Red zone play. We were so efficient in pre-season.

  129. 129 ACViking said at 9:36 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I still don’t get the point of having Vick this year if he’s not going to be here next year — because, to coin a cliche, he’s not stinking up the joint at all.

    That said, maybe he will be back next year. In which case, it all makes sense.

    But the defense is a problem. Big. Problem.

    Gosh, Dion Jordan would look good in green right about now.

    (KIDDING!!! GEagle . . . where are you?)

  130. 130 Jerry Pomroy said at 1:47 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    He’s over at Birds 24/7.

  131. 131 eagleyankfan said at 9:37 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    ” This year’s CBs are here to get us through 2013. They weren’t looked at as long term solutions.” I agree 100% with this. I think that comment applies to a few other Eagles as well.

  132. 132 Anders said at 9:37 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Chung and Sopoaga are gone after this year

  133. 133 eagleyankfan said at 9:40 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    that’s what I think too. Chip came here — looked around real quick and said “put a band aide here and here and here etc” and let’s figure out what we really have.

  134. 134 SHough610 said at 9:39 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    If we get a high enough draft pick I think we could take a QB. I’m intrigued by AJ McCarron and Aaron Murray.

  135. 135 Anders said at 10:13 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I got a few QBs I prefer over them.

  136. 136 BlindChow said at 11:19 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    It’ll be a long year if we have THAT high a draft pick…

  137. 137 Anders said at 11:54 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Consider I got around 5-6 QBs rated higher on my wishlist. So no.

  138. 138 ceteris_paribus1776 said at 9:37 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Kansas City and Denver have both shown how best to slow down the Eagles offense. Press receivers single high safety load the box and dare Philadelphia to design plays to get wide receivers deep. The LACK of talent outside of McCoy and Jackson is a

  139. 139 Anders said at 9:38 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    We are also losing the battle in the trenches and just making too many mental mistakes

  140. 140 ceteris_paribus1776 said at 9:46 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    What exactly qualifies as a mental mistake? Is it all of the encroachment and offsides infractions they committed, or being out of your lane to allow 105 yard kickoff return? I’m not sure I’m ready to say this team has cleaned up the mental mistakes.

  141. 141 Anders said at 9:50 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Both assignment and penalties.

  142. 142 Rage114 said at 10:07 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    2012 redux? I was thinking 1998.

  143. 143 Weapon Y said at 10:22 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    All this frustration will go away with a clobbering of the Giants next Sunday.

  144. 144 Bob Brewer said at 10:30 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Meh, I guess I’m of the Ricky Bobby school at this point. If you’re not first, you’re last. This organization needs high picks. Might as well keep them coming.

  145. 145 BlindChow said at 11:17 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I have completely lost faith in the Eagles clobbering anyone. It’ll be nice if it happens next week, but I think if we win, it’ll be a very close game and come down the final possession, presumably with the Giants doing something to lose the game, not us doing something to win it.

  146. 146 ACViking said at 10:36 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Re: The Worst Conference in Recent Memory

    Wow, the NFC is bad. And the NFC East is dreadful. Worst possible season for the Eagles to “RE-TOOL.” (I’ll take Roseman’s word for it that this team, on a record pace for being worse than the ’13 Saints defense, isn’t rebuilding but instead competing for the Super Bowl. Seriously, I believe him.)

    So let’s say the Eagles win the NFC East (w/ a record from 6-10, which is possible, to 9-7).

    They’ll automatically jump to the 20th pick in Rd 1 as a playoff team.

    Next, if T-Law and Jimmy ‘Bama are proved prophetic, Vick will not be resigned for 2014.

    How is all that a good result?

    I’m not saying to tank the season. I’m just wondering, with the holes on this team, how is falling into the NFC East title a positive?

    For the playoff experience? Most of this team will be turned over in 2 years. Cole, Chung, C-Williams, Sopy, Barwin, and Ryans all have post-season experience. Not making much difference on the defensive side.

    On the offensive side, the Eagles best players have post-season experience: D-Jax, McCoy, Celek, Avant, Peters, Herrmanns, and Vick. Not making much difference one way or the other on offense.

    More important, there will be a gigantic hole at QB if Vick leaves. If he doesn’t, I don’t see the point of getting him more “experience” in the post-season.

    There’s a hole at WR — no guarantee Maclin returns. The slot WR position needs to be upgraded — Avant has his days, but he’s not remotely close to fast, quick, or a RZ threat.

    The defense is one giant sink hole at nearly every position. You have Thornton and Cox and, hopefully, Kendricks. But that’s it for the “D”.

    So how is winning the NFC East a good thing?

    But at this point . . . I don’t think the Eagles have a choice in the matter. The rest of the division is so bad, the Eagles may win it with Matt Barkley at QB by default.

    Scary times in the NFC East.

  147. 147 Bob Brewer said at 10:40 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    You’re exactly right. Think about it, the Eagles will in all likelihood be in first place at 2-3 if they win next week (somehow I think Denver will squeak by Dallas.)

    For Super Bowl aspirations this organization needs a talent enema and the best way to do that is by stinking. But the Eagles still have enough talent to win this crap. It’s a sugar high that leads to little hope of championship success.

  148. 148 Anders said at 10:41 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Im pretty sure even if we tanked on purpose, we couldnt be worse than atleast 10 teams in the NFL right now.

    Also re-tooling/re-building. For me it is the same. I mean if you lack tools in the tool box, you have to shop for them in FA or the draft. No difference when you are re-building.

  149. 149 anon said at 10:46 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    You know the problem is that you have to do everything 100% instead of just 50%. If we are rebuilding, just tank trade your players for picks (though we have very little that’s tradeable after last year) and screw this season. If we want to win now, spend some money in FA, hire new talent scouts / positional coaches and let’s win some games.

    But’s hard to have a ‘winning mentality’ when your FO has really put you in a position to fail.

  150. 150 eagleyankfan said at 11:03 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I don’t agree with the “huge hole at qb” … the rest is interesting…

  151. 151 ACViking said at 12:12 PM on September 30th, 2013:


    I say “huge” only because Vick’s getting the whole season — if the Eagles are in the hunt — at QB. Whereas Foles is missing out.

    If Vick leaves, the QB position will be a question mark. Given the import of the position, it’ll be a very big question mark.

    If Vick leaves . . . .

  152. 152 Tom33 said at 11:07 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I think a team should never play for next year. If they somehow get in the playoffs – they have a chance. Remember Seattle a few years ago winning the division at 9-7 – everybody expected the Saints to destroy them in the playoffs. Didn’t happen. Arizona a few years ago was a huge underdog going to Carolina in the first week of the playoffs and they ended up missing out on a Superbowl win on the last play of the game. And finally, the Giants were a 9-7 playoff team a couple of years ago. That worked out OK too.

    Winning is always good. Losing is bad. I hope this team figures that out soon and stops getting in their own way.

  153. 153 BlindChow said at 11:14 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Seattle won the division at 7-9. They played the Saints at home, in the stadium with the best home field advantage in the NFL. The following week they were completely crushed in Chicago.

    They drafted at pick 25 that spring. The Rams (also 7-9, who the Seahawks beat for the division crown) drafted at pick 14.

    The playoffs are only good if you earn the spot; if you get in because you just happen to suck less than the guys standing next to you, that’s not an accomplishment, and it’ll cost you come draft time.

  154. 154 Tom33 said at 11:28 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I get what you are saying – but high draft picks don’t always work out either (ask Jacksonville, Oakland, et al).

    Even using your example (and just looking it up since I clearly didn’t remember the facts correctly), Seattle went 7-9 the next year and 11-5 in 2012. The Rams went 2-14 the following season and 7-8-1 last year.

    I’m not saying the playoff game helped Seattle’s development, but I don’t see the great impact of having a higher draft pick for St. Louis.

  155. 155 BlindChow said at 11:56 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Yeah, with the way Seattle used its later-round draft picks (Wilson, Sherman, etc), they made out pretty well. Not sure if I have the confidence in our front office to cash is similarly, though.

    But you do have a point about higher draft picks; the Jags, Rams, Bills and Browns are perpetually high-drafters, and that hasn’t seemed to change their fortunes at all. But I’d still rather have a choice of guys at #15 than #20…

  156. 156 Anders said at 12:02 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    The draft is total crap shot.

    Every team hits on a pro bowl 5th round pick once in a while (bet many teams was jealous of us hitting on Cole in the 5th).

    I dont get the love for Wilson as a QB. He is 30th in passing yards/game and he is 27th in attempts right now. He is very much like Vick anno 2004 just with a great defense to help him.

  157. 157 anon said at 12:06 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Game Manager.

  158. 158 Anders said at 12:21 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    He is a game manager there can do some magic once in a while, but I cant see how Wilson would be able to hang with Peyton Manning unless his defense can score a couple TDs

  159. 159 anon said at 12:22 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Agree — and that’s not a bad thing. When you have a monster Rb and a D that can keep you in the game and maybe even put some points on the board sometimes you just need someone that can extend drives and not turn the ball over. But no Seattle WRs are going on my fantasy team.

  160. 160 ACViking said at 12:23 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Anders —

    Must respectfully disagree.

    Last year in the divisional playoffs, the Falcons — at home — were blowing out the Seahawks.

    But Russell Wilson put on a show starting midway or so in the 3rd Q. Took control of the game throwing nearly every down to get the ‘hawks back in it.

    I think Wilson can do more than manage — though, when playing at home for sure, not much more is required of him.

  161. 161 Anders said at 12:26 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    In 2011, Alex Smith put on a show against the Saints in the play offs.

    Games like that happens, but Wilson is not doing it consistently right now.

    Peyton Manning from time to time have also had terrible post season games, but looking at his body of work means you wont draw conclusions of just 1 game.

  162. 162 shah8 said at 12:50 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Why don’t you go to any Seahawks forum? Maybe they’re complaining about Wilson’s low numbers.

    Vick in 2004 *was* the team. He wasn’t carried by nobody then.

  163. 163 Anders said at 12:55 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Regarding Wilson. I dont care about Seahawks fans. Every fan hype up their own guys. Its the talking heads or announcers.

    My point about Vick anno 2004 was more that Wilson is more a QB there will beat you with his legs in scramble than beat you with his arm.

  164. 164 shah8 said at 12:57 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    utterly unresponsive to anything that’s not already in your pretty little head, aren’t you?

  165. 165 Anders said at 1:00 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Im not sure what you mean with this? Instead of just attacking me, you should maybe consider that my native language is not English and therefor might need better explanations?

  166. 166 anon said at 12:04 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Ravens last year.

  167. 167 anon said at 10:48 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Anyone thing Jeff Maehl could play opposite of DJax instead of cooper. I know they were garbage time catches but he caught the ball and ran for yards…

  168. 168 Tom33 said at 11:50 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I would love to have anybody instead of Cooper. Preferably somebody who can run faster than me that the defense actually has to worry about.

    I hear how good Cooper’s blocking is, but if that’s the criteria, let’s put Lane Johnson out at WR#2 and we’ll dominate.

  169. 169 anon said at 12:03 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    haha not the way Lane has been blocking. But agree. Why not just line TEs out wide or something. Thought the whole point was everyone was interchangeable.

  170. 170 Mac said at 12:08 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    40 yard dash times: 4.53 seconds vs. 4.75 seconds

  171. 171 anon said at 12:15 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Cooper is that slow? No wonder he’s getting out-ran by DBs.

  172. 172 Mac said at 12:17 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    It’s more than a little disappointing. If he were more aggressive with jump balls that would help with the lack of speed. But if he were more capable of fighting for the ball then we might have already had our Lombardi (the year the packers won).

  173. 173 Iskar36 said at 12:18 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    I’ve had that same thought. When the first comment all summer is that your WR is a great blocker… you have issues. Blocking is clearly valuable in CKs offense, but it remains secondary to receiving skills. Cooper has simply been a liability so far as the second starting WR.

  174. 174 kevinlied said at 12:27 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Yeah, a good-blocking WR is like a good-hitting pitcher. When you can’t throw strikes, who the hell cares?

  175. 175 bsuperfi said at 11:02 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I think the reason the offense looks so similar is directly because of Vick. Kelly strongly defended him, but it’s legitimate to start questioning his play. I originally was a Foles backer but thought Vick won the job. Now I remember why I wanted Foles in the first place. Vick needs to make faster and correct decisions immediately so he doesn’t end up sitting in the pocket forever and then running around. He needs to get in the end zone when the team is in the red zone. He can’t help Celek drops, but he can’t help who he is either. He also has the benefit of a truly nasty running game. The offense needs more precision, and Vick doesn’t look close to the surgeon he was in the preseason.

    It’s premature to yank him, but if this keeps up through the next stretch of 2 winnable games, it’s a serious problem. This game hammered home that we need a long term answer at QB. I want to see what the other QBs can do. I ultimately think Chip needs to draft his guy next year.

    Like the birds 24/7 guys said, we need to see glimmers of something special from the offense this year. The talent is there and we’ve seen huge jumps in the running game, so it should be sooner rather than later.

  176. 176 eagleyankfan said at 11:06 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    “Vick doesn’t look close to the surgeon he was in the preseason” — that’s because Vick was playing against plain vanilla defenses and for the most part — playing against people that probably didn’t make the squad. Way too much is made out of preseason. Once the season starts — pre-season means diddly.(diddly is a technical term of course)

  177. 177 bsuperfi said at 11:14 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    I completely agree with you here. Kelly was caught in a bind by keeping Vick and installing a culture of competition.

    Some of the other posters are right that it’s tough to evaluate Foles’ play yesterday because he was playing against scrubs. But if Vick doesn’t get the job done in the next few weeks, I get the feeling that it would be perceived as a “legitimate” move to try out Foles with the 1s.

  178. 178 anon said at 12:02 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Kelly said Vick played great — it’s not his fault. Big test is whether Kelly can adjust his scheme to beat man coverage, we’ll see next week.

  179. 179 Dave said at 12:23 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    The past 2 weeks, he directed the offense to 16 and 13 points. I can live with an under-talented bad defense if we could put up 30 per game, but it’s pretty apparent, we will live and die by Vick and Vick alone.

  180. 180 anon said at 12:25 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    I think we are dying by our skill players. Vick hurt us in the Chiefs game, but no open is getting ope and when they are open they aren’t catching the ball.

  181. 181 Dave said at 12:42 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    The best QBs “throw the receiver open”, not necessarily wait to see the white of their eyes. When was the last time Vick threw the ball before a receiver made his break? Brady carved us up in preseason practice and games by consistently knowing where his receivers would be and trusting his throw.

    Eric Decker ran a 4.54 40. If he played for Philly, do you think he would be a star? My point is, Peyton makes him a stud, not the other way around.

  182. 182 holeplug said at 12:53 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    he would be better than riley cooper at least

  183. 183 Anders said at 12:55 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Eric Decker got 6 drops this year. Eagles fans would hate him.

  184. 184 BlindChow said at 3:09 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Only if those were key plays in losses. No one cares if you’re blowing out the other team.

  185. 185 Dave said at 1:19 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Player A

    6’3″ HEIGHT
    32 5/8″ ARM LENGTH
    222LBS. WEIGHT
    10 3/8″ HANDS
    4.53 40 Time

    STRENGTHS Player A possesses ideal height and bulk to play on the outside at the next level. Is a high-character, two-sport collegiate athlete. Plays with a high level of intelligence. Athletic receiver for his size. Shows the willingness to catch the ball over the middle in traffic.

    WEAKNESSES Player A’s a guy who builds speed and is not explosive off the line. Must improve his ability to gain separation as a route runner. Blocking could be better but Player A does have the build and frame to make strides here.

    Player B

    6’3″ HEIGHT
    31″ ARM LENGTH
    217LBS. WEIGHT
    9 1/8″ HANDS
    4.54 40 Time

    STRENGTHS Player B possesses great size. Was extremely productive in college. Exhibits good quickness & agility which he uses to overcome lack of elite burst. Gets off the ball quickly and is a savvy route runner. Has excellent natural receiving skills. Goes and gets the football, displays great body control in the air and around the sidelines, and isn’t afraid to go over the middle.

    WEAKNESSES Lacks elite top end speed which could severely limit his big-play potential at the next level. Lacks a second gear to pull away from defenders after the catch or in and out of his breaks against a corner capable of mirroring him.

    Can you guess which player drafted in 2010 is Riley Cooper and which is Eric Decker.

  186. 186 James Adair said at 4:15 PM on October 1st, 2013:

    First is Cooper the second is Decker. If they swapped teams they would also swap stats.

  187. 187 BlindChow said at 1:07 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    He should have done that LAST week.

  188. 188 eagleyankfan said at 11:22 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    The Eagles became the first team in NFL history to accumulate at least 1,000 yards passing and 750 yards rushing through the first four games of the season.
    Interesting fact. Obviously doesn’t mean anything for the win column, but it’s still interesting..

  189. 189 Anders said at 11:25 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    We are also the first team to gain over 430 yards in 3 straight loses

  190. 190 eagleyankfan said at 11:28 AM on September 30th, 2013:


  191. 191 Jerry Pomroy said at 12:25 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    These are both actually better stats than you may think when first looking at them. On a positive note, imagine those yards with them resulting in TDs, rather than FGs, missed FGs or stalled drives. So there is something there. If you can’t move the ball, you can’t score. At least we have half of that to build on.

  192. 192 Jerry Pomroy said at 12:29 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Actually thinking about it kinda makes me wanna look a little deeper at yds gained vs. pts scored & see if that reveals anything of substance.

  193. 193 Anders said at 12:39 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Read this part about scorebility-bendability


  194. 194 anon said at 11:28 AM on September 30th, 2013:

    Need more redzone. But who would have though this would all be smoothly running 4 games into the season. Think about the broncos, they weren’t perfect last year. Took two years and the acquisition of more personnel for them to gel — an that’s with a strong D + the Peyton Manning effect.

  195. 195 ACViking said at 12:20 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Lessons from the numbers?

    Defense matters. (Also, another way of saying time of possession matters because — as another commenter eloquently put it a couple weeks ago (whose screen name I regret I don’t remember) — if the opposing offense holds the 6-7 minutes, it’s like a defensive stop or two of your offense.)

    Turnovers certainly matter.

    Special teams play matters.

    The Eagles may win the next 4-5 games.

    But to win against good teams, you need a defense and sound special teams.

  196. 196 Tom33 said at 12:23 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    I’d add red zone efficiency and penalties to your list, but yes.

    In other words, yards are nice, but they still base wins and losses on points.

  197. 197 ACViking said at 12:25 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Agree. Very good points.

  198. 198 Anders said at 12:23 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    You can win plenty regular season games with great offense and no defense (see Manning’s Colts, the Packers and Saints last couple of years), but you need your defense and/or ST to create some turnovers/get some stops.

  199. 199 ACViking said at 12:26 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Agree, Anders.

    You need all those things.

    By “Defense matters,” I thought specifically about stops — most especially, RZ stops so you give up 3 not 7.

  200. 200 Anders said at 12:28 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    The Packers, Saints, Colts and Giants D’s over the last decade wasnt great D’s, but they created stops in form of turnovers and that meant their star QBs could win them games.

  201. 201 JJ_Cake said at 12:42 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    First off, I want us to loose so we can either win the suck for Clowney or a good QB sweepstakes. Unfortunately Jacksonville looks primed to win that one. And yes, I read Tommy’s piece on how top draft picks don’t always pan out, but some of the best players are top picks. Most starting QBs are top picks.

    The biggest issue I have is with the offense. They had 12 days off. I Mike just not getting it done again? Is it time to see what Foles can do?

  202. 202 ojdiddoit said at 4:03 PM on September 30th, 2013:

    Tommy they are talentless on defense and thin on offense

  203. 203 Mr. Magee said at 1:48 AM on October 1st, 2013:

    Tommy, this rationalization is about as convincing as Chipper’s press conference.

    Another thing you and Chip have in common is a short memory – go back and reread some of your posts leading up to the Denver game..

  204. 204 BurkeVA said at 3:06 PM on October 1st, 2013:

    I suggest taking a hard look at the balance of the schedule for all 4 NFC East teams. You will learn that. outside the Division, while the Giants, Boys and Skins are playing the likes of: Giants (Bears, MN, Oak, GB, SD, Seattle, Detroit) Boys (Den, Lions, MN, NO, Oak, Bears, GB) Skins(Bears, Den, SD, MN,SF, KC, Atlanta), the Eagles have Tampa, Oak, GB, AZ, Detroit, MN, &Bears. Barring some unforseen injury, etc., I believe the Giants go 6-10, the Boys 7-9, & the Skins 3-13, leaving the 10-6 or 9-7 Eagles NFC East champions, having defeated the Skins and Giants twice and the Boys once. This is not pie in the sky. Take look yourselves. What do you think?

  205. 205 Mr. Magee said at 6:40 PM on October 1st, 2013:

    I want some of what you’re smoking.

    And who cares about being the best in a weak division anyway? Goal is to build a ‘super bowl’ organization, and any and all analysis should be in relation to that goal.

  206. 206 Seriously, Chip Kelly Is Not Going to Coach USC Next Season - Sports - US Top Searches said at 6:45 AM on October 2nd, 2013:

    […] the truly exceptional Eagles blogger Tommy Lawlor wrote on his Iggles Blitz blog this week, Andy Reid started badly his first year; Super Bowl-winning Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 […]