Senior Bowl – Tuesday Update

Posted: January 21st, 2014 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 49 Comments »

The Eagles talked to a bunch of players on Monday. They did not do that today. I’m not sure why, but there just wasn’t much action. We saw them talk to Safety Deone Bucannon. That’s it.

There was one very interesting thing the Eagles did. They measured players wrists and knees. They were doing everybody…FB, CB, DL, etc. They were cataloging information. My best guess is that they were trying to measure something about bodies and growth. That would be backed up by this. We talk all the time about players bulking up, but not everyone can. Some frames are filled out. I’ll write a full post on this.

Misc Eagles items

* CB Aaron Colvin tore his ACL. The Eagles were showing interest in him and he’d have been a terrific fit for the defense. The Eagles could still take him, but as a later pick and player for the future.

* The Eagles are benefiting in a way from guys like Jeremiah Attaochu, Marcus Smith and Michael Sam moving from 4-3 DE to 4-3 LB for the week. This gives the Eagles a chance to study how these guys play in space. They’ve got 4 years of tape on them as pass rushers. None of the guys looks smooth in space, but Smith and Attaochu look functional. That’s good enough.

* No Safety prospect has blown me away. Jimmie Ward would be interesting because of his ability to play the slot. I think Isaiah Lewis is the kind of tackler the defense could use.

* The PKs aren’t impressive.

* There are some versatile LBs here. Christian Jones is an ILB, but played half the season at DE for Florida State. Could the Eagles consider him at OLB? I’ve talked to Jimmy Bama about this for a couple of days. We’ve not had a chance to ask Jones yet. I also wonder if teams have considered Kyle Van Noy as an ILB. Will try to ask him that tomorrow if we can.

Here are my Senior Bowl notes.

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  • SleepingDuck

    I think Jimmy mentioned in his article that he saw the Eagles talk to Christian Jones again today. I didn’t see Jones listed on Daniel Jerimiah’s top 50 prospects list. Which round would Jones go in?

    • TommyLawlor

      Could be 2nd or 3rd rounder. I doubt he goes later than that.

    • Insomniac

      2nd rounder if he shows off his athleticsm at the combine. 3rd if he has an average one.

  • Insomniac

    Dee Ford is rapidly becoming one of those guys that I want in the draft. He might not be the ideal size that Chip wants but he has the skillset that this defense lacks. It’s just a matter of how well he translates to OLB in the 3-4.

    The Eagles curse has struck again and claimed Colvin’s ACL.

    • deg0ey

      The thing with not having the ‘ideal size’ is that we know from Howie’s quotes last year that Chip has some hard rules regarding measurements that he’s not prepared to make exceptions for. No idea whether Ford falls into that category, but it’s very possible that he’s not on the Eagles board at all.

  • teltschikfakeout88

    Zumwalt was the player that knocked out Logan Thomas in the sun bowl. YouTube it…..Logan got crushed…

  • teltschikfakeout88

    Also…..very interested in deone bucannon….saw him play against Stanford earlier this year and remember making some plays. Would like to see if he is a real target for us. Also, Tommy are we going to get a prediction as to who you want the eagles to take at 22….a few years ago you asked for the head of fletcher cox….voila it happened…let’s see if you can nail it this year.

  • Insomniac

    “• After each practice, a few Eagles scouts go around measuring prospects’ wrists and around their knees. Here they are measuring around the knee of Georgia Tech CB Jemea Thomas.

    This is to determine how lean the prospect is, which helps the Eagles figure out how much weight the prospect can carry. Last year around draft time, Lane Johnson explained the practice to Jeff McLane.

    “They want to see how lean you are. They’ll measure your wrists, around your knees and ankles to see what your body can hold and they told me [it was] around 315, 320.”

    The Eagles are the only team that is doing this out in the open.”

    Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/eagles/Senior-Bowl-practice-notes-Day-2.html#kX0SskyjwI5QfhsF.99

    A small tidbit from Jimmy’s article. Interesting info. The more you know.

  • teltschikfakeout88

    I heard Tim green on NFL network talking about this on the NFL radio when he mentioned “dudes got tiny pins”. He was very critical of beanie wells and saying he did not like AZ taking him as high as they did because he thought he was going to be injury prone. The joints need to be able to handle the added weight and work capacity without breaking down….

    • GENETiC-FREAK

      Pins he might have been talking about chicken legs n not his joints.. Just like knees you can take the stress off them by working your quads n hamstrings

      • bentheimmigrant

        I have a much more effective way of taking the stress off my knees. It’s called a sofa. Just last week my doctor was complimenting my “sedentary lifestyle”. Must be doing something right.

        • A_T_G

          I suggested a way for my wife to take stress off her knees, but she wasn’t receptive.

      • teltschikfakeout88

        Tim was talking about joints. Don’t think that Beanie wells had chicken legs. Agreed from a general perspective that working your quads and legs can take stress off your knees…. again in general….however, when cutting, planting, anchoring etc. your joints are the weak point and if the muscle/mass around them is significantly more than the joints can handle then in effect the joints are the weak point and thus subject to injury…..How many non-contact ACL tears have you seen where a I guy’s knee buckled. Look at the injury to Derrick Rose…not that he is some weight lifting freak….non contact…that was jump stop that buckled the knee….

  • gherbox

    Colvin – Another Brandon Boyking situation?

  • RIP illa

    Just wondering why no has given much attention to the best drill of the day, which was the RBs vs the LBs in pass pro??? And the fact that Lorenzo Taliaferro seriously destroyed everyone he went up against w/ strength and perfect technique on every rep. Not to mention…I think he single handedly, dropped Telvin Smith’s draft grade down a bunch!!!

  • mksp

    If we liked Aaron Colvin and he fell to the 5th round I would be happy to take him there. Seems like the kind of thing smart, forward thinking teams would do. Get a 2nd round talent at a discount because you have to wait a year.

    • anon

      Had same issues with guys like gronk and Percy in fantasy, how early is too early?

      • D3FB

        The big difference being that you get Covlin for a four year deal, not a single season. Since the team would almost 100% IR him for the year you are essentially gambling that you get a second round talent in 2015 for the price of a 2014 fifth round pick. I think the fifth round is probably right around where it makes sense to take him. He was only a fringe top 50 guy anyway so it’s not like a surefire player. First rounders should be very good starters, second rounders should be above average, third and fourth rounders should either be solid starters or rotational players with a high ceiling. Everything after that you’re looking at backups and special teams types that hopefully have some upside as future starters.

        • anon

          yeah but do you pass up an earl wolff for him?

          • D3FB

            The question becomes do you value a Dennis Kelly, Najee Goode, Dion Lewis, Julian Vandervelde, more than you do Colvin who you have to wait a year for the slightest return on investment.

          • teltschikfakeout88

            He would go on IR for the year….would not waste a roster spot….although you just delay your decision another year….but it is at a point where you can make an informed decision on the injury to colvin

          • anon

            But you waste a draft slot. I think drafting a guy on IR is a better option when you don’t have a ton of needs — maybe that goes without saying.

      • shah8

        Most public example is former USC RB Lattimore. May well pay off if he’s healthy, since Gore is losing explosiveness.

    • Baloophi

      Obviously each human is different, but we actually did this very thing in 2008 with Wisconsin cornerback Jack “I didn’t steal that Xbox” Ikegwuonu.

      He was a top 5 CB prospect (and likely top 50 overall) when he popped an ACL in January prepping for the combine. We took him in the 4th round, put him on the PUP for his rookie season, and then cut him the next year.

      I’m pulling for Colvin but ACL’s are no joke for DB’s. Not sure I’d use a 5th on a medical gamble when there will be a lot of solid players to select who can at least step on the field this year.

      • A_T_G

        But Ikegawhatever’s issue had little to do with his injury. In later rounds, one is projecting a player’s future potential or taking very limited players. I don’t think projecting a guy’s ability to get stronger or to develop skills is any more of a sure thing than projecting his recovery. At least with the recovery, you know the guy put it all together once.

  • SteveH

    Tommy, if you had to answer right now, how would you say this draft class stacks up strength wise to previous drafts? It would be helpful for us if this one had some more depth seeing as we’re picking later than we have in the last few years.

    • RIP illa

      Sorry that I’m not Tommy, but in comparison to last year, I think there’s a lot deeper pool of edge rushers in this years draft as opposed to last year. Last year’s safety class was deeper than this year’s. This year’s wide out class seems deeper than last year’s. And w/ Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortels…the QB class, this year, is looking head and shoulders above last year. I also think it’s a draw in the CB department, but alotta people might say this one maybe better or be down on CBs as a whole, cuz of how slow to develop/emerge last year’s top picks were.

  • anon

    Tommy, does press get to interview players? Is it tough to get acces to players? Have you noticed if anyone of our rivals are looking hard at players? Maybe you can see which members of the secondary sea is looking at and we can poach.

  • GENETiC-FREAK

    Yip the measurements with wrists, knees, ankles are to see how much muscle you can grow or how mcuh you have filled out all ready.. Like being lean.. So small joints you can look good because of the muscle belly but wont be able to put on size as fast or naturally as someone with big joints

  • GENETiC-FREAK

    Tommy – How come you dont see Van Noy as a 3-4 OLB? I can see him as a ILB as well but what ive seen of him n other reports of him getting in the backfield before the tackle can even set for him thats good right? I gotta feeling he could fall like Lavonte David did when he should of been selected in the 1st know what i mean.. All he does is make plays

    • Anders

      I think tommy sees somebody who fits perfectly in barwins role as the jack but he wants a better pure pass rusher for the predator spot

      • HazletonEagle

        Van Noy can definitely play either spot. However, lets not forget that Barwin’s double digit sack season came from the right side not the left where he is now. Some people, and I believe Tommy as well are too locked in to finding strictly a ROLB for us when we really have the flexibility with Barwin to take the best OLB period. Which is Van Noy without question.

        • Anders

          Barwin has 3.5, 11.5, 3 and 5 sacks, wonder which one is the outlier?

          Barwin got his 11.5 sacks on defense with JJ Watt, Brooks Reed (both rookies but still very good rookies), Demeco Ryans, Brian Cushing, Mario Williams (for 5 games) and Antonio Smith.

          That was a stacked front 7 and Barwin exploited that, but he is not meant to be a player you fear like Demarcus Ware, Clay Matthews (before injuries) or James Harrison. That is the kind of play we want at ROLB.

          • A_T_G

            But would the versatility of another “Barwin” on the other side allow us to create that fear factor through disquise and scheme?

          • Anders

            Not enough, at some point you have to be able to just beat your mean across your face straight up.

            He would be a perfect replacement for Barwin or ILB prospect.

          • HazletonEagle

            yes, and Howie is quoted as saying he wants to double up on that skill set. A guy who can cover, rush, and play the run. The most versatile OLB is Van Noy matching that description perfectly.

          • HazletonEagle

            it also came when he played weak side.

        • theycallmerob

          Very hard to translate production, especially from a conference against “lesser” competition. I like the kid as well, but he’s almost one of those “jack of all trades, master of none” type guys. No particular skill stands out (size, athleticism, rip/spin/bull rush, coverage, speed, etc.)

          • HazletonEagle

            the size and athleticism combo most certainly stands out, as does the coverage as he makes a lot of plays there. Also, this past year he dropped back in coverage 70% of the time. But if you want to go find out when his pass rush skills stand out, go check out his junior season when he rushed the passer 70% of the time instead. Also, his coaches at BYU used to let him freelance a bit because they trusted his instincts and his pass rushing ability so much and knew he would get home. But he proved that he can play within a defense this past season when he dropped back in to coverage so much and wasnt just blitzing at will.

  • livingonapear

    With Jordan Mattews, I’m more inclined to think the drops issue can be fixed after seeing Ertz go from someone who had middling hands in college to a fairly sure handed one.

    Could Boyd still be on the board at 4-5? I know question marks keep popping up, but if he slides that far I say get him.

    • Anders

      They can improve, but some people just have natural catching ability

      • livingonapear

        Oh definitely. I tempered my praise on Ertz, he’s far from having the best hands, but I’m not expecting him to drop balls anymore, which I was doing early in the season.

  • Anders

    Tommy, do you think the Eagles might sacrifice some length for better pure pass rushing ability? I in talking about potential taking Dee ford?

  • eagleyankfan

    Someone should have measured A. Rogers. He was passed over and over because he was too small. The boy simply hadn’t grown yet.
    All this “stuff” Chipper is doing … I’m hoping it’s to build a long term, dominant team.
    Did Chip do this “measuring” at the combine last year? Or is that stuff readily available to him? Apparently you’ll never hear Chip say size doesn’t matter.
    It’s awesome to read about players of interest at the Senior Bowl. Fills up the winter.

  • Ryan

    I wonder if wrist and knee size has to do with durability i.e. Darren McFadden is very skinny and has been extremely durable!

  • Ryan

    Colvin getting hurt is a blessing in disguise for the Eagles. Now they can take a late round flyer on him, IR him, and have him healthy for the 2015 season. You heard it right here.

  • Anders

    Btw I love watching Murphy play or talk, but I just cant see him as a 3-4 OLB. Im really not sure he is good enough at bending around the edge.

  • Mac

    Wrist and ankles are good indicators of bone structure… i.e. how thick are your bones, and can be helpful to determine which of the three body type categories in which you belong.

  • Weapon Y

    Tommy, what do you think about Deone Bucannon? He looks very underrated by scouting websites IMO. He has pretty good ball skills and hits hard routinely from what I’ve seen, but I’m curious to hear where you think he deserves to go in the draft.