Changes Up Front
Posted: September 23rd, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 162 Comments »In the previous post I speculated about some different OL configurations. Nothing is official, but based on practice and some comments by David Molk, it sounds like there will be changes on the line.
It sounds like the OL will look like this:
LT Jason Peters
LG Matt Tobin
OC David Molk
RG Dennis Kelly
RT Todd Herremans
This is my favorite of the possibilities.
Tobin is a player the Eagles like He has yet to play on offense during the season, but had an outstanding spring and was great this summer. He was the best player on the #2 OL. His run blocking was especially impressive. He spent almost all of his time at LG so that is a spot where he is very comfortable.
You also have to remember that the OL will be getting a boost next Monday when Lane Johnson returns. The key spot to solve is LG, since that isn’t a 1 or 2 game situation. That is 6 or so weeks. Tobin could take that spot and prove to be a good fit until Evan Mathis returns.
Jason Kelce is out for a while, but there isn’t much question about replacing him. David Molk has that spot.
As to the right side of the line, I think the key was getting Andrew Gardner off the field. He struggled on Sunday. You put Dennis Kelly at RG and that frees up Herremans to slide outside to RT. Kelly played RG this spring and summer. He played some there in 2012. While he doesn’t have a ton of experience, he’s more comfortable there than at LG. Herremans has played RT for a full season so moving out there isn’t a huge deal for him. There is some adjustment, but he should play better than Gardner did on Sunday.
One of the benefits to this group is that they should do a good job of run blocking. Tobin and Peters give the Eagles a good pair of run blockers on the left side. Herremans is athletic enough to make the reach blocks that the Eagles need out of an OT. Kelly has some good moments in the run game, but must get more consistent.
Hopefully Lane Johnson will return for Game #5 and Herremans can slide back into RG. That would be another boost to the OL and would help solidify the group until Mathis and Kelce are able to return in 6 or so weeks.
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Why doesn’t Brandon Boykin start?
Many of you think the coaches are nuts for not starting him on the outside. Bill Davis and Chip Kelly talk about how the Nickel Corner is a starting position, but the bottom line is that the slot guy plays maybe half of the snaps. Call that what you want, but it isn’t the same.
Davis addressed the situation in his PC today. Reporters peppered him on the subject. They aren’t happy with a talented player like Bokin sits and Bradley Fletcher starts.
I totally get where they are coming from. But I also get the coaches. They don’t have Fletcher out there for the heck of it.
Playing the slot and outside are 2 different things. Just because you excel at one does not mean you will excel at the other. Remember how lost DRC was when he tried to play the slot? Boykin looks very good in the slot. So did Joselio “MmmBop” Hanson. Did you ever want him on the outside?
I know that Boykin is more athletic than Hanson so that isn’t a completely fair comparison. The point is that just because you’re good at one spot doesn’t make it automatic that you’ll be good at a similar spot.
Let’s review for a minute. The slot or Nickel corner is an inside position. The player spends more time in traffic. He needs quickness and agility. Most routes are going to be 20 yards or less so long speed isn’t critical. He isn’t going to be part of Cover 3 or Cover 4 as much. The slot will play a lot of man-to-man. The slot corner is more of a playmaker position. You can blitz more and you get plenty of passes coming your way.
That is a perfect situation for Boykin.
Outside corner is very different. You play a mixture of man and zone. You play a mixture of press and off coverage. Sometimes you are responsible for half or a third of the deep field. Bigger corners have a longer stride and can eat up ground while on the move. You tend to face bigger receivers and that makes a difference. Covering Wes Welker is very different from Dez Bryant.
My guess is that the coaches feel Boykin excels in the slot, but that he would be more of an average player on the outside. Fletcher isn’t exactly lighting it up out there, but if you bench him then Bokin is splitting time between the outside and the slot. That can be done, but that doesn’t make it the right move.
I would be fine with the coaches putting Boykin outside. I really don’t have a strong preference. I just don’t see it as the slam dunk move that so many others do. I trust this coaching staff. If they don’t make a move, I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. If this was the Castillo Gang, I’d be much more likely to disagree with the use of players.
The player I want to see more of at LCB is Nolan Carroll.
The Eagles do need corner help in the offseason.
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I think another few bad games by Fletcher and Williams will force Boykins to at least be tried on the outside, or at the very least Carrol starting which is a stronger possibility. Ohhh, and 1st!!!!! Been wanting to do that for years now. Always just miss out.
its boykin, not boykins. lol
Lol. Sorry, ive done that numerous times now. Idky. Maybe because of the bball player. Or is that Boykin too? Im messing myself up in the head now. Suprisingly you are the only one to say something so far on it.
Both names should not be allowed. One needs to add the S or drop the S.
I thought it was boy king. Quit f’ing with me!
mane, i wasnt even talking to you
then quit talking to me!
but you are sooooo cute tho..
it is ..but I have also suggested an aloha name for when he travels to Honolulu for pro bowl:
BoyKine .. he DA KINE haole, howzdat ya!
BoyKing.
or once he goes to pro bowl in Hawaii it will be BoyKine !
.. he DA KINE haoles !
you weren’t first and I hope we don’t start that crap here. Leave that stuff over there….
So the no fun league thing extends to posts and comments also? Relax bro. The game still has you uptight….understandable.
uptight after win? I’m anything, I’m on here screaming after each game for fans to relax. By all means have fun but that started on another site and it’s “their” thing…find your own thing instead of copying…
Really?
I guess you haven’t seen the nonsense that goes on over on Spud’s page. There are times when the posts are only about who was first and how many first posts they have, etc. There are times when it’s 80 to 90% non-football talk! I’ve actually stopped reading the posts there for that reason.
bingo! 🙂
I am here for football. If you look at any of my posts you will see that. I love this site due to Tommys posts but equally because of the collective football knowledge on the comments section. I was just having a little fun and expressing some excitment because i have been following this site since 2011 i beleive and have never been first before. Like you i have stopped going to EMB and spuds due to constant childish posting.
i think people want boykin out there because he makes plays, gets picks, AND they realize he is gone when he reaches free agency and people want him to stay.
Who will take him and why?
Really?
uh yes 🙂
As to why…because a team will need CB help. As to who….a team that needs CB help.
The Eagles wouldn’t just match it because???
They would probably try to, or they would match it and he might stay an Eagle. His question was who and why. Im not saying he is gone. God i hope not. I think the Birds will try hard to retain him, if not retain him. I do doubt however that he doesnt want to start, and if they dont offer him that then i wouldnt blame him for wanting to go somewhere else.
i think like you think but they can move 1 year before anyone else can and that’s a huge advantage.
slot corners get paid less than outside ones. how much can you really justify paying a guy that plays 30% of snaps – surely not as much as a team that will play him 80% of snaps.
Couple of problems, Boykin has played 30% of snaps this season thus far because we’ve been behind from the jump/teams have opted to go with more conservative option looks. 30% is due to sample size. The league average for nickel corner snaps is about 50%, and he played 51% last year. That number will stabilize.
You’re also assuming a team would be comfortable projecting Boykin to the outside, and still be willing to pay him massive money. It’s akin to saying “oh well thank god we signed Jason Kelce long term because he’s super athletic and good at center and overall a great lineman, so other teams are going to want to sign him to be their left tackle, and left tackles make wayyyy more money”.
Third, Howie is a bright guy. He will lay out the options for Boykin. Option A: Resign here for 5-6 million annually. You play a valuable role here, we love what you do, and you do it extremely well. Your slightly lower snap counts save the wear and tear on your body that historically plagues smaller players and could prolong your career by a couple of years. Philidelphia is a large media market and you should have no trouble earning endorsement deals. This team is also built to be a contender over the life of the contract.
Option B: Go to a perrenial cellar dweller team. They are stupid but not insane. You’ll make better money up front. Probably be paid like the 10-20th best corner in football. That puts you between $5.5-8.6 mil annually. You may make slightly more money right now, up front, today. But this option also has more risks. New team, likely not as talented, almost assuredly in a smaller, less football centric media market, new coach, new position, new scheme.
good gm, but i know the difference between 5 and 7 and don’t see boykin making that up in endorsements necessarily. Also the yr. 30 cut off is becoming a harder line as time goes by. i think the fact that we can do a year early in philly and the fact that we’re contending probably cover the difference. But $8m over 4yrs is a lot.
can players negotiate playing time into their contracts?
The Eagles could probably go up to 6.5 annually for him. We payed James Casey 4mil apy and he was expected to be TE2. With the projected increase in the cap, and the value of the slot corner position that number wouldn’t be too hard to stomach.
The Eagles also have leverage this offseason. That would be the best time to try and get a new deal in place. If Howie has to go a little Joe Banner, and basically threaten Boykin with a transition tag, so be it.
It would be incentive based bonuses (for accounting purposes they could deem it either ‘likely to be met’ which would count towards the salary cap or ‘unlikely to be met’ which if he meets it would count towards any remaining cap at the end of the year or eat into the following years cap.
Boyin will get somewhere around 4yrs 20-24mil
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when we pay him to remain our slot. We will go with two outside CBs on cheap rookie contracts.
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No one gives a crap about how much we pay a corner. What matters is how much you are allocating to the corner position as a whole..
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Right now we are paying our veteran outside CBs and are getting Boykin on his rookie salary… When it’s time to pay Boykin, we will pay him the veteran money and go with outside CBs on cheap rookie contracts..
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Which makes worrying about Boykin leaving an absurd joke!
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We aren’t in the business of drafting best slot CB in the game and letting him walk as soon as he reaches his prime… That’s just ridiculous
We might be able to give him an average AAV deal but with a strong guarantee. Risk/reward would seem to fit, I don’t think his performance would decline too steeply.
Could also work incentives into his contract if he thinks he can eventually convince coaches to let him start outside. Based on snap counts.
I think people overestimate what CBs not named Sherman and Peterson gets.
Walter Thurmond, a top 5 slot CB got 3 mill
Alterraun Verner, a CB coming of a pro bowl season got 6.375
Brandon Flowers got 3 mill
Right now unless you are Revis or similar CB, you do not get more than max 8 mill and are not worth it either
Yes…incentives. I beleive it is actually done pretty often.
Why would only a perrenial cellar dwellar team make a run at Boykin? Even if the trend is bigger corners, I would not be shocked at all to see a team roll the dice on a young, durable CB that generated a lot of turnovers despite not playing many snaps. Not at all.
Let’s use Michael Turner situation, where at the time he was putting great numbers in SD, but lots of “experts” were saying that it was because of the great offense around him and because defenses were relaxing when Tomlinson was on the sidelines – Atlanta took a risk by handing him out a starter contract, an Turner did not choose to stay in SD, stay a backup to “save wear and tear on their body”, and take less money. He went away from the successful team(remember the state of the Falcons at the time), took the money and the starting position. And rightfully so.
Turning down starting positions and contracts to match for less playing time and money, especially when hitting in their prime, is an anomaly, that I’ve seen players do only in order to stay with contenders(which the Eagles are not, yet). Considering this the most plausible option for Boykin as of today seems waaaay too optimistic to me. I mean, did James Jones stay with the Packers as a 3rd wideout this offseason, or Decker in Denver? Did Tuck or Woodley agreed on a low deal to be part of the rotation in the team that drafted them, and with whom they won SBs, or did they go to Oakland?
There is an overwhelming evidence out there than 99% of the players take the money, so if a team throw starter money at Boykin, I don’t see not only how the Eagles would match (for someone playing half of the snaps), or how Boykin would choose to stay instead of playing as a starter somewhere else.
because we’re resigning Foles to a front-loaded 3000 year contract. why are you so uninformed?
I’m just interested in how the league is going to calculate his signing bonus, the moon, into the salary cap.
We’re going to clone Howie a few hundred times.
I think we have a waning response coming…
Your waning response is above.
Making sure you are getting educated? What is waning?
Just off the top of my head i would quickly describe it as weak or unsatisfactory as a very short definition. Would you like me to get back to you with the Websters definition?
Very close… decreasing. .McCoy has been waning.(moon phase). Kelly will put together the show this weekend.
They won’t pay him as much to play in the slot as a team will to play him outside. He also might want more play time in general. Last game he only took about a quarter of the snaps
CB where? Brandon has only showed his skills as the slot CB. Do you project him on the outside? What is your salary range if he is inside or outside? Do you over pay him because you think he can be an impact player in your scheme?
I asked for an answer, and you answered with a general comment.
think you look at a 7pick year and you think he could be a playmaker. you can lure him with an outside starting job if that’s what he wants. hard not to have to overpay a FA who is not underperforming but that’s life.
A little intelligence goes a long way! Thanks!!!
Lol sorry. Look above. I meant to comment to you but commented to myself. Im off today. Brain isnt working 100% today. Doesnt help that i am doing this on a shity smartphone, and by the time i type a good response i could have typed a novel on a comp.
OK Cary!
I blame it on my job training.
There are 31 other teams. ALOT of them could use CB help. They could possibly give him an offer he just couldnt refuse and keep him as slot considering he is one of the best in the league at slot if not the best. Or they could promise him an outside spot, with a contract that has alot of incentives to meet, based on the fact he is unknown at outside and has only played around 33% of snaps. Or its possible a team is desperate at CB, really likes him and is willing to pay huge bucks to him. Or a team promises him an outside spot and pays him pretty standard for what a good outside CB would make. Alot of it depends on the FA market next year for CBs, and the draft. Due to the fact he is young, excels at slot, wants to play outside, and there are alot of teams that need CB help there are ALOT of possibilities of how this can go. Or hopefully the Eagles keep him. Better?
He’s awesome and I hope the the Eagles can keep him too.
We have the 49ers in 5 days and Boykin is healthy. Let’s end this topic now. And see what the next 12+ games present.
Lol agreed. And sorry for the asshole comment when i said really. Right before i typed that my dog pissed in the house and my GF was yelling at me because she hates the dog. I had to take my frustration out on something, so i did it on here lol. Im not Ray Rice, i chose the softer and less violent rout of releasing frustration. Was that joke to soon?
I do have to say this. If Boykin was to leave in FA it would be a HUGE mistake by not just the FO but also the coaching staff considering the state of the D and secondary. It will take a few years to get this D where it needs to be considering age and lack of talent at key positions. Boykin is young and i beleive is one of the building blocks we need to retain to get this D where it needs to be.
It’s all in good discussion fun! Enjoy the win!
cant say who, but why? because he makes plays. any team that doesnt play a ton of press man, will take him.
Great! the eagles are a candidate!
womp womp
“The Eagles do need corner help in the offseason.” That’s a familiar refrain.
At some point do you think it comes down to coaching / scheme? We’ve had a ton of guys in there over the past 4-6 years all of whom manage to look bad. Honestly if I was a decent corner on the market not sure if i’d want to come b/c we’re always last in passing.
We’ve had multiple DCs and DB coaches in the last 5 yrs. We’ve played a lot of veteran CBs. Let’s not mix up the current situation with the past. Diff things.
Is that sentence a joke? Potentially — the best offense in the NFL, which will always translate to playoffs. Why wouldn’t any player want to come with chances of playoffs and division championships? Crazy talk.
Like Tommy says, the coaches/scheme of the current defense are not the same as the coaches/scheme we had in 2010-2012 when the Nnamdi, DRC, etc. debacles were going on.
sunday wasn’t a debacle?
Brawl, it’s different.
Close – but those old days were losses. A win helps everything.
It does seem strange that Carroll isn’t getting more snaps. Davis really needed to make that adjustment during the Washington game and give Fletcher time to contemplate his future.
Im just guessing on this one. Maybe its due to the fact that he may just be marginally better in coverage then Williams and Fletcher, but his poor tackling negates the fact that he is just marginally better. Or maybe the coaches know he really isnt better then either. I dont know what it is, but i guess there has to be some kind of reason behind it.
unclear to me whether carroll was playing any better — just getting beat off screen.
Not many good answers for the team at CB if Carroll isn’t better than Fletcher and they won’t move Boykin and Williams is…
I just watched my first Les Bowman video.
Trust me… Don’t ever do it!!! I blame Kempski! (Les’s vid auto played after his)
Rather listen to Castillo and the DNA meals at the Matthews’ table.
He sounded like he had never spoken in front of a camera before… it was awful
That’s like the last eagles beat reporter I pay attention to.
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I think Les and Elliot Shor Parker are competing for most horrendous coverage of the eagles
Less Les is best.
Kempskis Philly. Com videos are bad too.
The blogging the beast ones were great.
We need Watkins to show what he can do in a real game. There’s some good CBs next year but I don’t know if we’ll be in position to draft them considering our lack of OL depth. Throwing out some college CBs to watch for, Trae Waynes, Marcus Peters, Kevin Johnson, etc.
Can we refer to him as Jaylen instead of Watkins? I had a moment of total panic that in a desperation move based on our OL woes, someone brought back the Fireman.
I made it less vague but still vague at now.
Lack of OL depth? By the end of this season we could have like 3’quality backups on our bench… I’m not sure we are drafting any OL before the 5th round..
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To me, Tobin looks like he has a chance to grow into a starting caliber guard
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Really like the way Dennis Kelly is handling himself and his size comes in handy depending on the match up.
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Molk could prove to be Kelce adequate backup
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And Barbre is perfect for a first man off the bench..
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I expect us to draft Oregons DE Arik Armstead in round 1 to replace curry, then Kendricks brother… And then we still have round 3, two round 4s, 5th.. To adress safety, corner, WR and OL
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I rather draft CB high, let them sit for a year and then draft OL later (I really think Stoutland is a huge bonus here).
Depends on who. I’d rather have the talented OL sit behind a year and develop instead of reaching for a CB. Have you done any scouting yet?
My comment was based on if CB and OL was about the same value in terms of talent. I havnt done any real film work yet as Im not a film junkie that just watch everybody. I prefer watching Eagles specific targets more.
What rank would you give Lane Johnson as a right tackle compared to the rest across the league? It is very hard for me to quantify OL skill level.
Last year was his rookie year. He hasnt played this year yet. I think it would only be fair to do that at the end of this year or next year at some point. Dont be suprised if he comes out a little rusty. If Todd plays good at RT and Kelly is adequate at RG, i wouldnt be that suprised if Kelly waites another week to put him in. Its not that he just hasnt played. Since the end of the pre-season he has not even been allowed to be at the team facilities.
I want a projection I don’t nee a concrete answer. I just wanna know what people think he will be when he starts this year or even where he finished last year. I get what you are saying though at it is fair.
He should finish this year as a STUD… No clue what level he will start at when his suspension ends, but by the end of the year I’m expecting high level play that we can project at probowl level the following year
No idea yet….but I’d expect him to really open some eyes especially the second half of this season
I think top five.
Not worried about playing immediately. He trained with team for 12 weeks, then took 4 weeks off.
yeah does he get tp keep the i-pad? Between that, working out he probably doesn’t miss too much. Is he next to herremans?
One of the best run blocking RTs, very good on screen and getting to 2nd level, but still suspect to getting beat by veteran pass rushers.
I just realized that since 2010, selecting a tackle has been really bust-prone. The few drafts before 2010 I looked at has been reasonable, but since then, it’s Trent Williams and a really big drop down to a hasn’t-really-been-bad-a-bit-plus guy like Markice Pouncey.
Lane Johnson still has a ways to go, and remembering just how much Matt Kalil has declined in performance since the rookie year…
Its not often the Eagles get to pick early and get a choice for a top tier player…
Jake Matthews looks pretty good for a rookie.
I think we’re all happy with Lane in general, suspension notwithstanding.
Tyron Smith is elite (the 2011 draft was something else. Woe to he who chose Blaine Gabbert ahead of JJ Watt).
The decline of Kalil makes zero sense.
Clairbourne left the Cowboys facility for being benched…. reclamation project anyone? heh, heh?
be nice but we don’t have a great track record with building players. i’d rather just pay for a decent player.
Lol did he really? God i love watching this happen to the cowgirls.
Lol he stormed out, skipping the teams walk thru… What a bum.
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I don’t want that cowboy trash! Only cowboy I’d want are the rings tackle and the rookie guard… No interest in any other players on that joke of a team
you wouldnt want Murray or Bryant?
Fuck no!
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We have two RBs I like better than always injured Murray and Chip Kelly ain’t putting up with Dez, so we can forget that..
Look at Murray’s YPC http://www.nfl.com/player/demarcomurray/2495207/profile and he leads the NFL in rushing right now.
I was talking more about the talent of Dez and we have no clue if how Dez is in the locker room and how is training is.
Take TO, Kelly would love his work regarding training (for TO, his body was his temple), the biggest problem for TO was that he wanted the ball all the time
Puts him on par with… Ricky Sapp?
Ahh yes, the draft from hell
Tommy, just from a position of equality, when pointing out the Hanson could play slot but was not as well suited for the outside, fans of the Boykin to the outside move could point out that Sheldon Brown played outside and the slot with equal aplomb. Of course this may have been raised in the 250+ comments raised in the last post (or was it the post before), in which case, please ignore this stupid ol’ bugger.
Troy Vincent needs to resign and/or drown himself. How can Baker not be fined? Now the Eagles have to get justice by taking out Baker’s knee(s) every time we play. Washington’s QB, coaching staff, and any fan wearing their gear could also be included.
He needs to answer a question: are players allowed to hit Peyton like that?
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Tired of everyone QB getting protected except ours
This is the problem I have. If Baker’s shot on Foles was legal, it should be legal against Manning, Brady, or Brees. And if it would be illegal against those guys, it shouldn’t be legal against Foles. There is a double standard in favor of the “golden boy” quarterbacks that is very annoying. Hopefully Foles has another Pro Bowl caliber season and ascends to that status this year.
See my other reply, that hit is in theory illegal against any player and has nothing to do with him been a QB.
Is vincent the official NFL response?
this is crazy, he’s totally unprotected, looking the other way, the play is over and it’s just a cheap shot. It’s exactly the type of hit that should be illegal. It was one thing with Vick, but Foles is immobile and should be protected by the NFL.
He is protected and has nothing to do with him been a QB. Blind side hits like that is illegal.
ok but I think the counter is that he wasn’t hit in the head or neck. Was this prohibited contact?
Its blind side hit, makes it illegal no matter what
Exactly. I thought there were specific rules put in place for QB’s(during int’s or fumbles) and punters/kickers.
sorry, I am all for that and agree…but is that in this rule that you posted above? where does it say that?
this is confusing, up top it says no unnecessary contact. But (b) says “prohibited contact” means this and that. Is there unnecessary contact that is outside the subset of prohibited contact (such as all blind side hits)? I find the rule confusing.
“The Eagles do need corner help in the offseason.”
Tommy couldn’t have ended this article any better!
The CB situation is far from acceptable. They’ll need to fix it ASAP.
Great point on the long strides. Very overlooked.
In rewatching the game, Fletcher got better as the game went on. I think Cousins was something like 10-23 in the 2nd half.
I personally like Boykin in the slot. He can test the free agent market when his time comes if he’s unhappy with his role.
Cousins did the same exact thing against the Jags… Started game completing I his first 10 passes, then was 10-23 rest of the way.
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Same thing against us,,,we also didn’t let them convert a 3rd down in second half
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Boykin won’t ever reach the open market. Bet that
Boykin bringing average play to the outside would be a step up from what we’ve seen there this year.
Slot CB is crucial in today’s NFL, and I enjoy having the best nickel CB in football..
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You wouldn’t take the best guard in Football, Mathis, and make him into an ok Center… Slot CB and outside CB are practically two completely different positions. No desire to move Boykin outside.
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Btw, Boykin will come up with the key INT that seals the Niners game for us. It’s his turn to make a monster play, and the Niners aren’t familiar with how good he is…
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I hate this dumb Boykin outside talk. We can argue about it til we are blue in the face, it’s not going to happen
I hope it doesn’t come down to a last minute INT. Let’s put a team away early enough to just run out the clock on them in the 4th.
I was always with the coaching staff on this one, but it’s getting harder and harder each week. Yeah, just 3 games into the season, but it’s ludicrous to have your best CB on the field for 30 % of the snaps. Fletchers horrible season so far makes it even harder.
I’d like to have a more flexible approach to it. If you play the Bears – let him play nickel and nickel only. But if you play against Desean or Antonio Brown, why not try it out? The speedsters don’t have size advantage over him, but they have a speed advantage over Cary and Fletcher.
He isn’t going to be on the field 30 percent of the time… That number will go up to 45/50
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Crunch time of the season, our outside CBs held up fine… Heck the last two months of the season only the Vikings lit them up and that was an ANOMOLY… Our CBs weren’t some liability that cost us the saints loss…
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It’s not the same position. People are solrely mistaken if they think they can just decide to switch Boykin outside in the middle of a season…kid hasn’t practiced outside in probably years… If that’s what you want to do with Boykin, then you decide that in the offseason and spend the summer training him to play outside…
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Just because they all fit under the CB label, really doesn’t mean you can just stick him on the outside whenever you feel like that and expect him to instantky play at a high level on the outside
“Crunch time of the season, our outside CBs held up fine… Heck the last
two months of the season only the Vikings lit them up and that was an
ANOMOLY… Our CBs weren’t some liability that cost us the saints
loss…”
They weren’t, you’re right. But Fletcher is right now. That has to change. Fletcher is no rookie or 2nd year guy, I expect solid play from him. He’s not even close to that.
I’m sure he can reach a higher level than he played against the skins.. Fletcher was also part of the CB tandem that shut down all those tough WR tandems the last two months of last season..
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And if he doesn’t get it together, Nolan Carrol is on deck… Losing having the best slot CB in the NFL is dumb. Slot WRs do so much damage, it’s great having Boykin to match up with all the tough slot WR..
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It’s all over rated silly fan crap anyway… When Boykin comes In and we play Nickel, plenty of outside WRs take snaps in the slot, so we see Boykin matched up against Dez Bryant, Victor Cruz types all the time???he doesn’t have to go outside to match up against tough WRs
You don’t have to lose Boykin as slot corner to increase his snaps. He could at least try to slid inside in nickel and play outside in base. In your opinion, he’s one of the best slot corner in the league (I share this opinion). So he perfected the slot position, he could learn another role – at least maybe he could. You’ll never know until you tried it.
I don’t think you have a valid argument at all(as T-Law addressed this in the article). But let’s play pretend that you do have an argument. If you slide Boykin outside — 1) who replaces him on the inside? 2) do you think you’d get the same level of play from that player as you would Boykin?
Like I wrote, I was always with the coaches on this one. But desperate times call for desperate measures. We have problems at ILB – they see what Marcus Smith can do there. At the moment, we have a problem at LCB. Cary has his share of mistakes, but we can work with that. But we can’t work with the way Fletcher played on Sunday. You won’t win many Football games with perfomances like that. That was flat out awful. And it wasn’t an anomaly (I wouldn’t worry about it if that would be the case), Fletcher played really bad since the rule change.
Of course, we can try Carroll. I hope they try at least that. But the bigger picture is: your best player on the defensive backfield shouldn’t play 30 % of the snaps. It will hurt your Defense. 50 % is rough, but I can see the point there.
Don’t you think the opponents game planning has something to do with that, too? OCs know that Byokin is the best CB on this team and I’m sure part of the reason we haven’t seen much 11 personell is Boykin.
Chip wouldn’t put Megatron on the bench just because the Defense dictates that. Why would you do that with Boykin?
And btw: I’m not saying all problems will go away if Boykin plays both positions (to answer your question: of course he’d still be the slot corner against 11 personell). But I think there’s a chance our corner play improves. At least try it.
It was right to let him learn the slot position last year. He’s the best in the NFL now, imho it would be at least worth a try if he can play outside, too.
I fully understand what your saying. Why not put Boykin at safety too because NA stinks? Well, because it’s apples and oranges. That’s the point T-Law made. It’s not a move simply made. You have difference responsibilities.
MS is at a different position but the majority of his play will be the same as his current assignment. Blitz. They aren’t asking MS to replace Kendricks. He’s a stop gap.
As far as, you won’t win with those performances — Eagles are 3-0 and have an amazing record dating back to last year. I’m not saying CW is great but moving Boykin isn’t the answer. Just like moving Boykin to safety wouldn’t be an answer over NA.
“MS is at a different position but the majority of his play will be the same as his current assignment. Blitz.”
That’s like saying: Outside corner is a different position but the majority of his play will be the same as his current assignment. Cover your WR.
I do think Smith and Boykin are comparable in that aspect. I’m not saying it will be the magic solution, because you’re right, it is different to some degree. But at least give it a try. Just like they are giving Smith a try at ILB. If it doesn’t work out – fine, we tried it.
Imho, Fletcher should lose his starting role with his play this season so far. He can earn it back in the nickel (then outside, so he sees 30 % of the snaps) or dime package, but you simply cannot (should not) play like he played and expect to be starting.
Bennie Logan is the only nose tackle in football that leads his team in tackling.
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I warned all the idiots this summer who talked shit about the young puppy.
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16 tackles the last two games. He had 8 against the skins, 3’solo for no gain…that’s friggin BALLING for a nose tackle!!
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City is going to crap all over the kid, they need to give him props when he plays exceptional ball like he has been this season
Logan is fine. The people citing him as the reason the Saints ran all over us in the playoffs last year have never played/don’t know anything about football. That was a schematic thing. If you run six man fronts all game because you want to take away Jimmy Graham, it doesn’t matter who your nose tackle is. You could have the Incredible Hulk there and you’re still going to get run on.
We’ll said… Shame these young players have to get crapped on all summer by dumb fans.
Love Logan, he is really looking good.
One thing that’s starting to fall off these past two games is our second string DL.
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Cox, Thornton and Logan have been fantastic, but we aren’t getting much out of Curry, papa bear and Beau these past two games… We are going to need our starting DL to continue to play at this level, while also getting more of a jolt from our second string DL against the Niners…
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Niners have key injuries in base personel and nickel personel….very curious to see how Harnaugh elects to play us
Kaep takes more time to throw interesting to see if we can get some pressure.
I don’t even want to sack him…Like Eli, you don’t want to sack kAp. You want to pressure his throws. Get pressure on him and rush his throws and he WILL throw you a gift of a turnover..
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Hope to pressure him into some bad throws..
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Also think we should mush rush him some, not try to sack him, just make sure we keep him in the pocket, get our hands up in his throwing lanes and force him to beat us from the pocket… I simply don’t believe kAp can out play FOles from the pocket
Indeed, Kaepernick is one of those quarterbacks with such a penchant for poor decision making you almost want him to get it away under duress rather than taking him down.
Shut down run, keep Kaep in pocket. Wave 12 man flags at him.
I have all the faith in LJ coming back but he’s still a question mark. He will need to be in game shape. Can he build on last year?
Molk will be fine but he’s no Kelce. I think that’s a huge loss.
He’s been through OTA, TC, and ps. He is fine.
I think he will be fine. I do think it’ll take a few games to get in a groove.
We just have to trust our DC. It’s been a while since we had a competent guy running the defense.
Davis has to be able to do things his way.
Should the Eagles have any interest in trading for Morris Claiborne? He is a bust now but was considered to have a ton of talent coming out. Les (Miles) thought when he was in college he was better than Patrick Peterson. If the Eagles can rehab / restore his confidence they could get a really talented CB for pennies on the dollar?
This was an excellent read:
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2014/9/24/6836463/brandon-boykin-play-outside-slot-nickel-bill-davis-cornerback
Article on Boykin and why he’s not getting much play on the outside. He quoted Billy Davis and te writer pointed out where he was wrong as far as evaluating Boykin in the slot rather than the outside.
He made a good point on the difference in using Boykin in Nickle situations and on the base defense. It’s obvious Chip wants his corners to be over 6 feet, but what Boykin has been able to do in the slot (shedding blocks, making key stops on the run) are areas that Fletcher and Williams are struggling to do. Really interesting read.
Now, I’m not calling for Boykin to start, but it is worth noting that he should see more time with the base defense. One thing I do agree with from the article, is that Davis isnt using his best defensive playmaker more than he should.
I’d rather have an “average” Boykin on the outside over the “waiting to get burnt again” Fletcher!
Parkey has shown he can kick, let’s try him at corner.
Kick at dirt while wr goes flying by?
In the nuts.
Nate Allen’s?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000399508/article/nfl-power-rankings-week-4-bengals-at-no-1-packers-slip
Read the Eagles part:
“Do you realize the Eagles are averaging 24.7 points per game this season — in the second half alone?”
That is insane
Wow, ridiculous. Of course defense is giving up around 20 points in first half alone.
So pumped we get to finally take a look at Tobin the Great
Re: Boykin’s Options — A, B, and C
D3FB beautifully described two options for Boykin at the end of his contract. (Because they’re worth repeating, I’ve pasted his comment full below.) One is he stays an Eagles and is paid as a slot corner but supplements with advertising dollars. The other is sign with a cellar dweller as an outside corner, get locked into a more dollars but a new scheme, new team, new staff, etc.
I think there’s a third option for Boykin.
A 1-year deal with a team willing to promise him a shot as an outside corner — particularly a team that needs both an outside and slot corner. His base salary would be above slot-corner money, but below top outside-CB dollars, with performance bonuses if he succeeds outside.
If Boykin plays well outside, he’s back on the market in a position to ask for his last big payday.
If not, he can always get top slot-CB money.
I’m no agent. But that seems like a good play strictly from Boykin’s point of view.
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D3FB’s Comment in full:
Couple of problems, Boykin has played 30% of snaps this season thus far because we’ve been behind from the jump/teams have opted to go with more conservative option looks. 30% is due to sample size. The league average for nickel corner snaps is about 50%, and he played 51% last year. That number will stabilize.
You’re also assuming a team would be comfortable projecting Boykin to the outside, and still be willing to pay him massive money. It’s akin to saying “oh well thank god we signed Jason Kelce long term because he’s super athletic and good at center and overall a great lineman, so other teams are going to want to sign him to be their left tackle, and left tackles make wayyyy more money”.
Third, Howie is a bright guy. He will lay out the options for Boykin. Option A: Resign here for 5-6 million annually. You play a valuable role here, we love what you do, and you do it extremely well. Your slightly lower snap counts save the wear and tear on your body that historically plagues smaller players and could prolong your career by a couple of years. Philidelphia is a large media market and you should have no trouble earning endorsement deals. This team is also built to be a contender over the life of the contract.
Option B: Go to a perrenial cellar dweller team. They are stupid but not insane. You’ll make better money up front. Probably be paid like the 10-20th best corner in football. That puts you between $5.5-8.6 mil annually. You may make slightly more money right now, up front, today. But this option also has more risks. New team, likely not as talented, almost assuredly in a smaller, less football centric media market, new coach, new position, new scheme.
Boykin wants to be on the field every down. He’d play st and offense if he could (he did in college).
yes. he would indeed.
Great work, but problem is, players hate 1 year deals because of injury risk.
That is why some players take more money up front. My preference is that for some reason he gets a game or two on the outside against great WRs.
A —
That’s the dynamic that Boykin’s facing.
Injury’s a factor, to be sure.
But Boykin’s already missed out on more money because of the fluke broken leg at the Senior Bowl.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens
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Yes, seeing Boykin on the outside would be a treat.
Maybe the broken leg have shown him not to bet on a 1 year deal?
I would love to keep Boykin, but just like Tommy Im not confident he would be anywhere near as good on the outside as inside (the few times he has been outside, he has given up a lot of catches including this pre season)
Under Reid, the Eagles were more than willing to invest heavily at the CB position.
We’ll see if Roseman feels the same while working with Chip, and if Boykin’s on field performance negates his “measureables”. If they do, it’s not out of line to think the Eagles will make him the highest paid slot CB with a big guarantee. Whether that’s enough to keep him in green we’ll have to see.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Boykin is not at the end of his contract this year, there is one more year left.
He can sign an extension this summer for the first time. So as D3FB intimated, one thing the Eagles can offer Boykin is long term security immediately, without the risk of a catastrophic injury next season when he’s playing on an effectively one-year deal.
If Peters gets fined, I say we start a Kickstarter to pay it for him.
you know how much money he makes? that’s toilet paper $$ for him. if it was jeff maehl then i’d say ok.
First it was — Foles is no good, he can’t play. Then it was Mathews — he can’t catch. Now it’s Boykin needs to play more. Give a little help from a safety(cough “Always Late” NATE) and CW problems would seem to go away. Next up is Crabtree/Davis duo. Would have loved Kendricks for this game but it’ll be patchwork at that position. Contain those two and we have a shot at winning a very tough road game.
Jenkins has been fantastic. Some have loved this move since day 1. I took a more of “let’s see” approach and have been very impressed. This guy is all over the field.
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Maclin – interesting how he’s stepped right in like he hasn’t missed a beat. No more talk about DJ leaving and the impact. After a good sample of 3 games — Mac has just about 100 more yards receiving than DJ while only catching 2 more balls. He’s also tied in TD’s for WR’s. He’s off to a great start.
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Any Redskins/Giants predictions? Going to be a fun game to watch….