So Much For Stability
Posted: September 10th, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 304 Comments »The Eagles suffered some injuries in the season opener. RT Allen Barbre is out for the year with an ankle injury. ILB Najee Goode is out for the year with a torn pectoral muscle. LG Evan Mathis is on short term IR with his MCL injury. That meant the team needed to make some roster changes. Let’s meet the new guys.
Wade Smith was signed to help the OL. He has started 98 games in his career, most of that coming as the LG of the Houston Texans. Smith is the kind of versatile, veteran player the team wanted to add. It should be easier to get him coached up on the scheme and playbook than if they added a young guy. Smith knows LG inside and out. He now has to learn the Eagles version of LG.
Emmanuel Acho was promoted from the practice squad to replace Goode. This is a big chance for Acho. He will get some playing time on defense and plenty on STs. Acho needs to show that he can play in the NFL. It will be especially important for him to stand out on STs.
Kevin Graf was promoted from the PS to the roster to replace Barbre. Graf played RT in college at USC, but played LT and LG for most of the summer. His lack of athleticism would seriously concern me if he ever had to play.
Chip Kelly would not say what the plan on the OL is for now. Smith is an experienced LG, but wasn’t good enough to keep a spot on a shaky Seattle OL. Dennis Kelly is here already and knows the scheme, but has mostly played RG. David Molk had a solid showing, but ideally you want him as your backup G/C.
The best plan is to play Smith at LG. Have Molk and Kelly as the backups. If one of the OTs gets hurt, put Todd Herremans at that spot and insert Kelly at RG.
Scratch that. The best plan is to tell the guys to quit getting hurt.
The stability on the OL was great last year. Right now Jeff Stoutland and Chip Kelly are playing a bizarro version of Tetris with the Eagles O-line. Which piece fits best where?
Oh, and thanks a lot Lane Johnson. Not that we could use you or anything like that.
* * * * *
A couple of spots opened up on the practice squad.
The Eagles signed ILB Brandon Hepburn. PE.com has some info on him.
The 6-foot-4, 235-pound Hepburn was selected by the Detroit Lions in the seventh round of the 2013 NFL Draft out of Florida A&M. Hepburn spent last season on the Lions’ practice squad and was re-signed this offseason by Detroit to a futures contract.
The second player to be drafted out of Florida A&M since 2010, Hepburn finished his college career with 163 tackles (109 solo), including 15 tackles for loss, 7.5 sacks, 11 pass defenses, two forced fumbles and one fumble recovery. Hepburn earned All-MEAC honors and was named to the All-State/AFCA Good Works Team.
The Eagles needed a young ILB with a mixture of experience and potential. Hepburn has an understanding of the NFL, but must learn the Eagles system. He is a good athlete. Gil Brandt has his Pro Day info.
Brandon Hepburn, ILB (6-foot-2 7/8, 241 pounds) — Hepburn ran the 40-yard dash in 4.54 and 4.56 seconds. He had a 36-inch vertical jump, a 4.47-second short shuttle and did the three-cone drill in 7.31 seconds. He stood on his numbers from the NFL Scouting Combine in the broad jump (10-foot-4, and good and bench press (21 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press).
Hepburn is a guy you think of as a STer and backup. If anything happens to Acho, Hepburn will have a shot at that roster spot. He needs to shine in practice to impress the coaches. Seems like a good signing.
The team also added OL Tyler Hoover.
The 6-foot-7, 297-pound Hoover was a defensive lineman at Michigan State and with the Indianapolis Colts, but did play tight end in high school as well as defensive end. Hoover originally entered the league this year as a rookie free agent of the Colts. He was re-signed by the Colts to the practice squad following the preseason, but released on September 2.
At Michigan State, Hoover played in 48 career games (23 starts) and recorded 93 tackles, nine tackles for loss, 7.5 sacks, six passes defensed, three forced fumbles and one fumble recovery. As a senior in 2013, Hoover started 11 games and posted career highs in tackles for loss (4.5) and sacks (4.0). He was also named Michigan State’s Big Ten Sportsmanship Award recipient.
This is an interesting move. The Eagles need OL help right now. Yet, they signed a project. Hoover must be a player they had long term interest in and just wanted to grab for the future. The Eagles have had interest in him since college. They had someone meet with him at his Pro Day. I don’t know if that was a scout or coach, and if it was as a DL or OL.
The Eagles released OLB Colton Underwood from the PS and now have a spot to fill. My guess is that they find an O-lineman with some experience and who can be promoted to play if needed.
So much for roster stability, huh?
* * * * *
A little adversity can be a good thing. You don’t mind the team getting out of its comfort zone. Sometimes that can bring out the best in players.
Maybe playing behind a makeshift OL will cause Nick Foles to get the ball out quicker. He cannot drop back and look vertically behind this group on a regular basis. Maybe quicker throws will help the offense get into a better rhythm. And so on and so on.
Mathis can come back in 8 weeks. Johnson will hopefully be the RT by that point. If the starting OL can gel quickly, the Eagles could be set to dominate up front down the stretch run.
And that would be cool with me.
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If Tobin gets healthy soon, then a big chunk of the angst goes away. Peters – Tobin – Kelce – Herremans – Johnson in week 5 would be more than OK. Smith is a bonus if he is still a reasonable semblance of his 2012 Pro Bowl level of performance.
Gardner – Smith – Molk – Kelly – Graf as the backups is still better than most NFL teams have.
With all of this roster instability, rosters spots become even more important. It’s a shame that our first rounder LB is a waste at this point.
most first rounders are a “waste” at this point in their first season
is that actually true? Be interesting to see how 22-32 do yr 1.
He did say “at this point” in the season.
there’s exceptions to everything, but in my very limited experience, first rounders don’t do much the first half of their rookie year, and on good teams with depth shouldn’t have to. would it be awesome if smith was dominant off the bat? sure, but we aren’t thin at OLB, so we’d be replacing quality with quality. if he sucks in november that’d be strike one. if he sucks next september, after a year of coaching and weights, that’s strike 2 and a half.
http://eaglesrewind.com/2013/03/20/1st-round-breakdown/
Useful reference for this sort of thing.
Yeah. He’s no Danny Watkins. Now that was a pick.
Yup, then ruined by Mudd and Reid. He did just fine at Baylor and was widely thought to be a first-round pick by many in the NFL.
My memory isn’t too good, but wasn’t Mudd renown for developing offensive linemen or something? If Watkins was that good, you’d think someone would have salvaged him. Instead, he’s working at a firehouse in the Dallas suburbs. Look, it’s easy to Monday-morning quarterback, but that pick was dreadful. Strike 1: 25 years old. Strike 2: drafted to fill a position of need. Strike 3: not nuts about football.
too bad Smith can’t play RT, right?
He’s a rookie pass rusher behind 3 other OLBs. What do you really expect to see from him?
Good Grief. (2 in 2 days)
If he weren’t the first round pick, they would have picked another LB or defensive lineman. How does either of them help the OL? Nobody, including you Franny, wanted them to pick the OL in the first round. The consensus was defensive side of the ball. So your argument is really meaningless!
Negative. I wanted the best available. And that’s what the team touts as their strategy.
In no altered reality was Marcus Smith the best available player. He was drafting to fill a need which is the same damn thing they did with Watkins.
Yup. The only team in the history of the world to make draft choices that didn’t work out just the way the “fans” wanted ,in their first year.
And “In no altered reality” were the Eagles going to spend a first round pick on an offensive lineman
You can run whatever your opinion is. However, you have no idea what the front office draft board was.
But I do know that both Howie Roseman and chip kelly have touted their “best player available” mantra ad nauseum. As I related(apparently you are a bit daft) and the front office stated, they do not draft a position because of need.
So you can sit behind your computer and play Internet tough guy and continue to be wrong. It’s your prerogative. But either way, you are wrong and supporting your argument with your opinions. I tend to use facts.
Freaking Bill Barnwell kept mentioning in all of Grantland’s podcasts that our lineman were due to get hurt. Freaking giants fan jinxed us!
When someone says anything is ‘due’, it’s convenient because you can quickly determine that they are, indeed, an idiot.
He sure is. In his annual trade value column, he still had Eli as a top 30 trade target. I wonder if the Giants called the Rams today, if they would even offer a 3rd rounder. Bottom line: Barnwell is an idiot.
They’ve probably resigned themselves to shooting for a high draft pick. Winston or Mariota would be a nice consolation prize for them.
If they fired their offensive coordinator, maybe QBs will have some fun playing in that offense, and try to not get hurt. Wonder why Schottenheimer still has a job. Fire him, draft Mariota, make better use of their receivers including Tavon Austin, and rely on their defense. Should have a good 2015 season. Sucks that they are already looking forward to the next season, given that we are only through 1 week.
I think Giants end up winning around 6 games and that puts out of Mariota. I could care less about Winston.
My real fear is Dallas 100% crapping the bed, gets coach Sumlin and draft Mariota.
What would Dallas do with Mariota? You always have to think about Romos contract.
http://overthecap.com/player/tony-romo/145
Nearly uncuttable until 2017. And with a cap hit of 27.7m next year, they probably HAVE to restructure – again. Won’t make this contract any better.
Of course, they could take that bullet (cap hit for your back-up or stop gap QB), but I don’t know if you can take that bullet next year.
Also, you have to think that Dallas will win enough games to be out of the conversation for the #1 or #2 overall. The offense is good, even though you couldn’t see it on Sunday. They will win some games.
What I think will happen is Dallas getting one of the best defensive players of the draft. They will pick between 5-12, you have to think. And this defensive player will help them, they need it desperatly.
A fear I share with you is Dallas getting a good coach. Garrett is a bum. Jerry will pay top money if he finds a good coach on the market. Personally, I fear Harbaugh the most. You just have to hope that the great coaches will look for an opportunity to NOT work with the worst GM in football, since they get paid from other needy teams, too.
If Dallas ever hit rock bottom (1st overall), I would bet they would clean house and rebuild on offense with Murray, Mariota, Smith, Bryant, Martin and Frederick. That offense could still do some damage with a coach like Sumlin
NYC media get paid to heap praise on NYC athletes, no matter how they actually play.
Or, it’s shorthard for saying regression to the mean is likely.
I’m probably in the minority here, but I kinda like the backups getting some game action. Obviously Barbre is gonna be a significant loss, but it will be interesting to see Kelly and Gardner play against legit NFL talent.
They sure did a good number on Pittsburgh’s starting defense.
Hepburn is an interesting choice. He should be able to pick up the schemes quickly because he’s a smart guy who went to FL A&M originally on an academic scholarship and got a degree in biochemistry. During a summer internship he discovered a way to kill certain cancer cells in mice using nano copper particles.
If he can’t play football maybe he can help revise the “smoothie formula” to promote more rapid healing of the Birds injured players!
I hope those aren’t the same copper particles in all the infomercials about copper-infused spandex which goes around your knee or elbow and magically heals your every ailment?
Really regretting the Eagles decision not to invite ILB Josh Bynes to their practice squad. Exactly what we are scrambling to find right now.
Oh and someone needs to give a shoutout to SD rookie 3-4 OLB J. Attauchu – showing he can make plays with early NFL contributions. I know a lot of posters here liked him during the draft.
I would love to (remember to) compare Attaochu to Marcus Smith in a few years time, see which one was the right choice.
I doubt we start any of the new offensive lineman this week. They will promote from one of the bench players that were here in the summer. Why? Because we can’t use tempo with a new OL we just picked up off the street… So problem solved, it will be Molk, Gardner, Dennis… Two of those 3 will start, unless Tobin is ready to go, and pat Shurmur didn’t sound too good about the possibility of Tobin being ready
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Gardner will start for sure…. Dennis vs. Molk?
According to the beat writer: Gardner at RT and Kelly at LG to start practice.
Sounds about right…tho Molk with no reps, held up like a warrior at guard against a much better Jags line than the colts will throw at us… Think Molk earned the right to compete for the guard spot
Isn’t he more valuable as the back up center? If he goes down, who is left that you trust snapping the ball?
Sure, probably… But if Kelce goes does, he can just slide over, if any of our two centers go down,we will still have to sign a vet or Jpsh Andrews off our practice squad…
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You could be right and they don’t even consider Molk for guard this week… But he did an impressive enough job to where I wouldn’t mind seeing what he can do with a week of reps
If the team loses both center during a game, they may call on Doronbos if no other OL has snapping experience.
They’ll be running a lot of shotgun from 15 yards deep.
Interesting story on Lane Johnson.
He visited his trusted psychic during the off-season – his family has visited this psychic for years and never gotten bad advice. Lane’s psychic told him, “The Eagles RT is going to go down during the first game of the season.”
So now Lane had a dilemma: how does he skip the first game of the season without looking like he’s wimping out? Then Lane realized, “I’m sure to have a random drug test coming up soon… and I could stand to put on a little muscle.” So Lane ‘roided up and got busted as planned. So really, that drug bust was just Lane doing us all a favor.
That above store is completely true, just like every story you find on the internet.
Our offensive coordinator talked about how our backup OL is in a better shape than anywhere else he has been in his NFL career, because of how many practice eps our backups get compared to the way other teams run practice.
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Makes sense…we will need our backups to step up, since we can’t play an OL signed off the street since he won’t be conditioned enough to play out our tempo… Wade is just here for super emergency down the line… We just gotta get thru this week, than we will get Tobin back…considering what Molk did his first ever time playing Guard with no Guard reps against a much better DL than the colts have, I like this teams chances. Our back ups are trained for this…so NEXT MAN UP… We can injury injury luck and smoothies all we want, but if you can’t overcome injuries in the NFL you will never be a champion
Week 2:
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Jax @ Washngton
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Dallas @ Titans
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Cardinals @ Giants..
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Can our rivals get a win this week?
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If the jags could score a few explosive TDs against our defense, they better be able to put up points on that crappy Washington secondary. Jordan Red ruled out for the week. Jax has to stop Alfred, Desean and Garçon..hopefully Cyprien can play..
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Dallas I don’t really trust on the road, but I have no clue what to make of the titans. I do like their coach and imagine he has the. Headed in right direction.
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Giants really suck… Eli has,become a joke.. I found myself watching the giants play the Lions and I was calling his INTs.. I don’t know who you can trust more to throw that INT Eli or Romo, but it’s just amazing how bad Eli has become.lol COUGHLIN knows he is coaching for his job and he introduces a new offense? Is he losing his mind? How could he ever think this was a good idea? You need a two or three year leash to introduce a new offense..
i’m not sure what to make of that NYG/DET game without watching it. it looks like DET dominated the game, but from what i’ve heard, it wasn’t quite that bad. i can’t tell if DET just capitalized on a few NYG mistakes, or if there were lots of NYG mistakes and DET had a lot of their own to even it out somewhat…
Giants made unbelievable mistakes. QB scrambles a bit. Your defense has been primed all week to keep an eye on 1 guy. Not 1 guy in the secondary followed CS. Anybody reading this could have thrown that pass to him as he was that wide open. The list goes on. Eli throwing to the TE 10 yards from line of scrimmage. Problem was TE was sprinting down the seam and never turned around. INT.
I thought Detroit abandoned the run game for no reason at times.
NYG offense looked pretty bad. it was only close b/c stafford has issues…
You HAVE to watch it; the Lions gave them EVERY chance to get back into the game. They couldn’t do it, and (sh)Eli buried his team by throwing back to back picks. Their defense has some talent, but that offense (and maybe, team?) is in trouble. It may be a scenario that see’s McAdoo gone after 1 season of implementation bc Caughlin is released along with 90% of the coaching staff.
I try not to make too much out of 1 week, especially week 1 of the NFL calendar, but the 2014 remind me a lot of the 2011/2012 Eagles. Just how I see it
Not that bad? Giants were pathetic
yeah, it was so much fun to watch
How the hell is Calvin friggin Johnson running alone, with no one within 40 yards of him?
Really tough to know how real the Titans really are, they looked great dominating KC and Titans have a really good OL, so Locker should be protected and Justin Hunter is going to eat Cowboys secondary alive.
Jax has chance to win over Wash because Wash looked super crap on the OL and as we saw, they have the DL to exploit that.
Cardinals should be better than Giants, but Cardinals is flying cross country, have an early game and played monday night
Cardinals are without Abraham, too. Sucks, at least for that game.
coughlin is done macadoo was a desperation move for the sake of making a move. he’s only made the playoffs twice in his tenure.
NYG remind me of the 2011 and 2012 Eagles. An above-average team that thought it was close and just sort of lost its way due to age, injuries, shit play from former talents, etc. The more they tinker, the more misshapen it becomes.
Like I have said all summer, it’s their ghetto welfare version of a dream team, making the same exact mistake we made keeping Andy too long so everything imploded in 2012… History is repeating it’s self.. This is the end of a Giants era… Hopefully they botch the next coach hire and draft the wrong QB lol
You don’t implement a new offense if you don’t have a leash of two or three years to grow in the new scheme…. This idiot is coaching for his giants career. and he decides to switch to a brand new offense? One that emphasizes short passes when Eli success comes from throwing downfield…. They can’t even communicate right. Half the time him and his WRs were comically not on the same page… It was bush league Embarressing
I live in NY and it seems Coughlin had the new offense forced on him by ownership, not his choice. Will be interesting to see how he reacts if out stays so bad.
sounds like the jerry jones syndrome
They’re in the contest for Mariota and Winston. Don’t think any of them get more than 7 wins.
I don’t think they will be bad enough for Marriotta… I think Jameis Winston or Hundley end up in either Dallas or NY.. One of those two probably gets drafted into our division…. They won’t lose quite enough for Marriotta
I don’t think Mariotta is a lock to be first QB taken. The favorite sure but I could see Hundley drafted first. I think Winston’s off field baggage push him don to at least 2nd but he hs the physical talent to be better than Mariotta. Long college season and predraft peocess ahead of us. A whole lot can change
i know we we’re due for some injury regression this year but jesus
Not sure about total injuries.
We did lose Maclin and a bunch of other guys in TC.
We’re probably better off this year. Chip should be able to compensate for some OL injuries. If Peters or Kelce go down, I’d be more concerned.
i was more talking about the 0 line. it’s pretty rare that all 5 starters play all 16 games.
Can anyone confirm that Lane’s suspension doesn’t get lifted with this new NFL/NFLPA agreement?
No, but I really doubt he got busted for meth like product and not steroids
It sounds more like the new policy is more lenient on recreational type drugs (with weed limit increasing, and amphetamines being classified as substance abuse, not performance enhancing) as opposed to any kind of PED.
Yeah, just saw Les Bowen’s tweet with DeMeco saying the changes won’t affect Lane’s suspension. Was holding out hope. Oh well, three more games to go.
Chris Brown is eviscerating Foles on twitter right now. Sounds like he played even worse than we thought. Dammit Nick, this better have been a bad case of the nerves. If he plays this poorly against the Colts we’re gonna lose 35-0 and the calls for Sanchez are gonna be *real* loud.
At least we can put the “DeSean opened up the offense for everyone else” narrative to rest. Maclin alone should have had 200 yards and 3 TDs.
Chris B. Brown @smartfootball 35m
If he played even average Foles might’ve had 600 yards. I’ve never seen such wide open guys in an NFL game and it’s unreal they are missed
https://twitter.com/smartfootball
“Maybe playing behind a makeshift OL will cause Nick Foles to get the ball out quicker. He cannot drop back and look vertically behind this group on a regular basis. Maybe quicker throws will help the offense get into a better rhythm. And so on and so on.”
He had time to hit guys that were wide open. I don’t know what Nick’s problem was. Ugh.
Was the Dallas game all over again. He bounced back last year, lets keep the faith he does this year too.
I think it may have been worse than the Dallas game. I’m not sure he missed as many wide open reads in that game as he did against Jax.
And he’s more experienced now than he was then.
I share your hope, but this game has me really shook with regard to Nick’s potential as a franchise guy.
If Nick can’t see and pull the trigger on WRs that are wide open, how can he beat a good defense? This is supposed to be his strength. He has no elite physical qualities, so if he can’t make reads, then he can’t be an NFL QB. Ugh.
LETS GO NICK, GET IT TOGETHER.
No elite physical qualities?
He is 6’6 and 250 lbs.
How many other QBs have size like that?
jamarcus russel
tom brady
Ryan
Flacco
Logan Thomas
Rivers
Big Ben
Bortles
Mallett
Palmer
Derek Anderson
Cam
He looked woeful the 1st half. As did the o line. Then he looked decent in the second half and brought the team back to score 27 unanswered points. You can be concerned all you want. But when I see a guy put up such consistently good numbers the entire season – record breaking numbers even- I believe that is an indicator he is going to be fine. Is he the next elite QB I’m the nfl. Not sure. But he is good enough to win us a super bowl. That’s all that matters. Shady looked off on Sunday too…..just saying nick deserves patience and a little credit for bring us back and winning the game after that HORRIBLE for at half.
Fran35 — you apply logic and results to your argument? How dare you!!! I sense Vick fans still having issue that Nick was the better choice. If Nick just lost 17-0 and was score less I can see people complaining.
Just a few questions — Did Foles nail that throw to Ertz? Did he find Maclin? I thought there were a few plays he should have kept the ball on the option play. I thought that was a terrible call — and play — on the fade to the corner.
Did Peters play outstanding? Or was he abused early on? Isn’t he a pro-bowler? Shouldn’t we question a veterans play like his or CW’s?
Total Net Yards for Jax — 306.
Total Passing Yards for Foles — 322.
I’m think we bench him, maybe even practice squad when he clears waivers…..
Also remember it does not count when its Maclin, its because the defense just forgot about him. Maybe Foles did as well?
The Indy defense is really terrible.
They did a decent job against the run I thought, and got to the QB a bit against Peyton.
I don’t think they are as bad as people think.
I’m with you on this. Their offense did well against a very good secondary too.
So is ours, as we’ll see Monday night.
really?, they gave up two shortened field scores(one almost at the goal line) and one field goal. shut`m out for 3 quarters(-41 seconds).
a blocked FG, and a TD of a sack
that equals a terrible defense?how?
If a back up QB and rookies score on us — what will established QB and 2 solid wr’s do? We’ll find out Monday night.
Wasn’t that just a rookie schooling our “veteran” secondary?
Short field, long field — does it matter? We’re talking about a team that might not win a game all season vs. a team with NFC Championship. Either that secondary defense was brutal for a bit or it was bad game planning.
If you want to tell me our defense shut down a college level team — well, congrats on such an accomplishment.
they corrected what they did wrong in the beginning.
would you rather have had them not do that,so that it could said they couldn`t even stop a college level team.
no team chooses their opponent,only plays them.
Nah man,,, our defense is good,.. They will prove it this year
wow.
and yet he rebounded enough to get a win,
amazing someone that bad can do so well
Overlooking poor play because they beat a bad team is putting your head in the sand.
I get it, but Nick didn’t exactly set the world on fire in the 2nd half either, he just wasn’t an unmitigated disaster.
A large chunk of the production came from a wide open Jeremy Maclin.
receivers were open in the 1st 1/2 as well,the difference was that he delivered the ball,which did not get done in 1/2 #1. had he done the same thing again that he did in the 1/2 #2 then everyone`s complaints would be legit. had he completed the passes in the 1st 1/2, no one would be saying “well, of course , the receivers were open.“, everyone would be sayin “wow, he`s the man!!!
go ahead, tell me I`m wrong
no one has an average game and throws for 600 yards. It’s unfair to take a still shot and say, see Foles was looking at his number 1 on the right but should have been looking deep left first b/c this guy was open right then. He missed some guys. It happens, likely to most QB’s in every game. I’m not saying he didn’t have a bad game, but c’mon 600 yards easy? Has anyone thrown for 600 yards, ever? Did we have more wide open WR’s than any team in any game ever? If we did, then here come SB’s for Chip Kelly and we have bigger things to start planning (parades). That would be a great problem to have.
He had a bad game. He may not be elite. Let’s wait and see.
I think once our guys (Sheil & Tim, Jimmy, etc.) put the All-22 analysis up it’ll be a little more clear. Based on the screenshots Chris Brown as putting up, it was pretty obvious what Nick was supposed to do.
I’m not hating the kid, I’m just saying we have every right to be concerned about his performance. Alarmed, maybe. He puts together a couple strong performances and all will be forgotten.
I think its fair to say Nick is not elite. I’m not sure it matters in this offense (it may help, when it comes to contract negotiation time). But he needs to be better than Sunday.
I’ll take “not elite”. The not elite Eli Manning has two championship rings!
he’s elite in championship years and terrible every other year
So! I’ll take two championships over 14 years of Andy Reid’s “almost but not quite”!
did you not see the 2nd half?
gotta look at the tweets from the all-22
I can’t even believe people get this crazy over a game.. Last 10 times FOles took the field, he found a way to win 8 times…. I think more good can come from Sunday, than the bad people are dwelling on…. I know what Nick looks like when things are going great…think it was good to see him have as rough a game as possible, yet he didn’t lose the locker room at all, and found a way to get it together and salvage a win… Kid just got thru serious adversity and lol idiots dwell on that it wasn’t pretty… Just dumb fans… This was one of those games where it can be glass half full, or half empty… Think much more good can come from this game than had he just routed the jags like we did to the bears last year…. I hope he faces as much adversity as possible during this season as long as we still come away with the win…. The more adversity he has to overcome while we continue to win, the better…the more adversity he has to overcome, the better he will be equipped to lead us in the playoffs
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Making any judgment off one game is crap, no matter which side you are on
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The negativity coming out of this game is just sad
Ultimately, the only measure that matters is if you win the game. If he throws for 20 yards and wins or 600 and loses, does any one care about yards? He had a bad day at the office and did enough to win. Hopefully he doesn’t have any more bad days.
Yes, we should care about his performance from an objective standpoint, if we care about the Eagles as fans.
If our goal is to eventually win the Super Bowl, then we want to see Nick progress and become a great QB. Sunday was a step backwards.
Exactly. I want to see competence, not someone who looks like a frightened rookie. Yikes.
Foles looked terrible against Dallas last year—as bad as anyone I’ve ever seen. What did he do the next game he started? Seven TDs.
Essentially, that’s all Foles is. He’s not a 5 year veteran. Bumps on the road are going to happen. You’ll see it again.
I don’t agree. Was the first 1/2 a step back for our defense? They only faced rookies who’ve never played in the nfl.
How can someone – be the first QB in NFL history – take a team down 17 – 0 and win by 17 and be a step back?
I guess a news flash to many is — there are going to be more games like that. Foles still has yet to be the starting QB for a full season. I get everyone wants to win, but you’re not going to get perfection from any QB during his first full season as starting QB.
How did that QB do in KC last Sunday? There are a few veterans who didn’t do so well Sunday too.
we shouldn’t be fan base running around saying the sky is falling the sky is falling….
Who is Chris Brown besides another immature jerk who also beats up on the female half of the human race?
I think he’s talking about a different Chris Brown. The singing Chris Brown is busy talking to Ray Rice on the phone telling him ‘hey man I know what you’re going through, sometimes you just gotta smack em around a little bit you know?’
Chris B. Brown, very very good football resource, wrote “Smart Football.”
It was week one…this week is….you guessed it, week 2, lets chill.
2013 NFC Championship Game: This is football
First weeks of the season: This is football on Acid, shit’s weird and most of what you see is a mirage.
You’re being reasonable. Doesn’t work here. ;~)
“Get out of jail pass” for Lane Johnson?
Does anyone know if the latest players-NFL drug test negotiations might let the suspended guys come back sooner than 4 weeks?
Only if it was meth like products and not steroids he was banned for
By meth like products you mean “recreational” drugs? Because Adderall and Molly are vastly different drugs than meth.
Just meant drugs that are based on Meth or looks chemical like Meth
I think you’re confusing amphetamines with methamphetamines.
I meant amphetamines, meth is just easier to spell
I don’t know if this is adressed by anyone but the biggest down side of using someone who wasn’t in eagles TC is the conditioning. No way Wade Smith is ready to play in Eagles tempo. That can’t be overlooked.
I think the Eagles signed WR Cobi Hamilton to the practice squad earlier today; that should be the last spot right?
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/WR-Cobi-Hamilton-Signed-To-Practice-Squad/2127dc60-2dac-46af-ac35-c75d5c74e108
Uncharacteristic cheap shot at Johnson.
Can’t wait to get this win… Eagles are a lock this week. Love that everyone is picking against us. Especially with the injuries at OL. Haven’t heard anyone say they had the eagles over the colts, nationally speaking.. FOles will not lose to Andrew Luck on Monday, I know it…they haven’t proved it yet, but this eagles defense will prove to be legit, and it will start with their defense of the colts…
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I love that no one picks the eagles, everyone assumes we can’t overcome two offensive lineman against such a great QB
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Tho, it’s interesting that Vegas isn’t accounting for the loss of our OL in the odds they set.. Vegas Knows eagles win this… This is our coming out party on the road, national TV, Monday night football against a media darling…what an opportunity!!!
sorry, nothin is ever a lock…
they call those games trap games, ala minn. last year.
nothin is a gimme
Huh? We are an underdog, that’s not the same as a trap game…think your trap game definition is confused…it’s when you overlook teams, you can’t overlook teams if you aren’t the favorite. Sorry
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FYI, no shit my personal opinion doesn’t make it a lock lol, awesome comment
no,no wasn`t their power all-everything runner absent from the game? all on the eagles` sites were beyond confident;
and didn`t they have 2nd level QB at the helm?
its still a little nerve racking of a game considering Luck can really sling it but i am much mor econfident this year with the defense then last year for sure. it will be a good one and i definitely expect Foles to go off. as long as we can run the ball well we should be a lot for them to handle. the D looks good last week.
Yeah buddy… Our defense is legit… They will prove it this year. By the end of the season there will be no doubts
Hoping for a few things:
1) The teams comes out faster and more focused against a fellow playoff team, can help but feel that the team came out to be just “good enough” (not good enough) against a lowly Jaguars at the comfy new Linc.
2) A game plan. Too often when we play an inferior team it doesn’t look like we have a plan. We look vanilla. Find the weak spot and hammer it till the whole thing comes crumbling down.
3) Big bounce back for Nick Foles and the offense. The Jags did some stuff that definitely threw a wrench in our rhythm. Guarantee you the Colts eyes got big watching last weeks tape and are desperately adding a bunch of new wrinkles (copy cat league). I wanna see us make copycats pay with what we’ve learned.
I don’t know how happy they are watching last weeks tape.. FOles is my dude, and I’m not at all worried about him, but if the Colts copy what the Jags did, then our WRs were running open all day…being at the stadium, I was amazed at how easy and often Jordan Mathews was getting open. They won’t be to happy when they watch the all 22 of how the jags covered us! because FOles won’t miss wide open WRs again..
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jags also have better defensive personel than Colts… Jags one of the few teams that would play us Zone, while we focused all summer on beating Man… Colts will confront us with man! and that when we can really shred them throwing to Sproles and Ertz. Colts are terrible at defending tight ends..
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Everyone knows of all the colts WRs and their 3 WR looks, but we also have to be prepared to stop thir two TE attack which they use a lot. They think highly of Dwayne and Fleener..
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I’m expecting a 31-24 Eagles win… Think the opposite of last week, we get off to a big lead, and they spend the second half coming back..we end up holding on to the win…tempted to say the colts only score 20-21, but I’ll give them the respect of giving them 24 PTs….
Foles or CK, b/c the two are different. I’m more excited about sproles.
what’s the line?
Eagles getting 3.
ty …basically 3 for the HF
yup
Vegas doesn’t care who will win. They don’t set the line based on what they think the score will be. The line gets set (and moves) based on what the mid point will be where betting falls evenly on either side. They make their money on the vigorish. If IND is horrendous but the fans bet a lot of money on them, then they’ll be giving points.
Wow, Eagles caught a break…
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Chris Long is going to miss the week 5 Rams game.
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Skins NT Barry Cofield is going to miss the week 3 skins game.
Lol Goodell has to quit…
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LIAR!
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Law enforcement tells AP that NFL requested the tape and they mailed it to them in April and the NFL Receieved the tape before they ruled that it was a two game bullshit suspension..,. The law enforcement even say they have a confirmation voicemail from NFL offices saying they received the tape, agreeing that it was really bad… lol proof that the NFL saw the tape in April, before the two game suspension was handed out…
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Lol right now as we speak, owners are telling Roger, sorry bud, but you gotta fall on your sword…..dude should have came clean last night and suspended himself…now he has to step down! Shame on you cover up!
What will be less LOL is if the punishment is invalidated by some variation of the double jepordy idea.
This is completely of Goodell’s own doing too. What he had to gain by covering this all up from the start was so minimal in contrast to what he now stands to lose. It’s almost Nixonian. Never liked Goodell anyhow he’s such a disingenuous little turd.
He should have came clean last night and suspended himself…instead he will lose his job… He is a fiesty fucker I’ll give him that…the balls on this guy to not resign yet
Foles was sunk by a ferocious pass rush. Same in cowboys game. Running for your life makes it hard to go through progressions. SBs have been won with not much more than a ridiculously good pass rush.
Cary Williams said Ray Rice deserves a second chance…. 2 days after the whole situation blew up? Would’ve been nice to wait awhile before making such an outrageous statement. Fool.
you feel differently when you know a person.
Michael Vick also said he deserves a second chance.
He might deserve it when he has served his sentence (funny is his plea agreement is depending on him having a job, so he might end up in jail for not for fulling his plea agreement)
But Rice might not get it because of his terrible year last and he already have a lot of wear and tear and RBs like Rice is easy to get than a QB talent like Vick
As AP reported earlier…
Commissioner Roger
Goodell has sent a memo to the 32 teams reiterating that the NFL never
saw until Monday the video of Ray Rice punching his then-fiancee that
led to Rice’s indefinite suspension and release by the Baltimore Ravens.
Goodell told the teams on Wednesday that none of the law enforcement
entities the league approached “was permitted to provide any video or
other investigatory material to us.” He said the league did not ask the
casino directly for the video.
Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti said Tuesday in a letter to the fans
that the team tried to get the video from both the casino and law
enforcement. The casino wouldn’t share it and the authorities refused,
he said.
Goodell also stressed his confidence in how the NFL will deal with
domestic violence and sexual assault in the future — “seriously and
effectively.”
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/goodell-tells-teams-nfl-was-denied-video
And now…
A law enforcement official says he sent a video of Ray Rice punching his then-fiancee to an NFL executive five months ago, while league executives have insisted they didn’t see the violent images until this week.
The person played The Associated Press a 12-second voicemail from an
NFL office number on April 9 confirming the video arrived. A female
voice expresses thanks and says: “You’re right. It’s terrible.”
The law enforcement official, speaking to the AP on condition of
anonymity because of the ongoing investigation, says he had no further
communication with any NFL employee and can’t confirm anyone watched the video. The person said they were unauthorized to release the video but
shared it unsolicited, because they wanted the NFL to have it before
deciding on Rice’s punishment.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FBN_RICE_VIDEO?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-09-10-16-54-27
Goddell has the steely resolve and lawyer acumen to either necessary be a c-level executive or a politician in DC. Profound ability to bold-faced lie with such conviction repeatedly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YKqATuhmbUc
Goodell is digging in with this plausible deniability angle, but NFL reporters are pissed that they were essentially used to smear a domestic violence victim. I think its only a matter of time before before someone either burns a source or gets an insider on record.
Yeah and use the ‘Sgt Schultz’ defense and say I ‘say know nothing!’
Still a lot of cracks in the NFL’s front office wall of mud built around this incident have failed or sprung big leaks the last 48 hours.
Yeah the walls seem to be closing in quickly on Roger.
all of this is so dumb, americain media is terrible.
As I was saying:
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2014/09/10/22-saw-foles-week-1/
A lot of overreaction to my “overreaction” above. I believe in Nick, I think he’ll get it together.
But not stepping up into a clean pocket, not hitting guys that are wide open, and not seeing guys running free is absolutely an issue, and something that we’re allowed to be concerned about.
I think he’ll get it together this week, and leave all of us wondering what the hell happened versus Jacksonville.
by saying he had a bad game and then saying you think he’ll bounce back is saying you’re not concerned at all and it’s not an issue….
If we were to go back over notes from pre-season — there were comments about Foles not being as sharp as last season during pre-season. Using pre-season and game 1, you might have some ammo to your argument. Maybe Foles is TOO comfortable in what he thinks he’s doing?
He’s still just a baby in terms of NFL QB years….
Re: Goodell’s Quiz Show Moment . . . the NFL Never Forgets
Commenter BobSmith77 quotes from an AP report that:
“A law enforcement official says he sent a video of Ray Rice punching his then-fiancee to an NFL executive five months ago . . . [and also] played The Associated Press a 12-second voicemail from an NFL office number . . . [on which] a female voice expresses thanks and says: ‘You’re right. It’s terrible.'”
________________
Goodell’s pay-grade is far too high to be dealing directly with the gathering of evidence for purposes of a disciplinary hearing.
Senators and Congressmen don’t do it before a hearing. They rely on staff and committee counsel and investigators.
Presidents — of the United States or big corporations (i.e., CEOs) — rely on their cabinet members and executive VPs to execute policy. And generally, the cabinet members/EVPs themselves rely on staff. And if a ball gets dropped, and the ball is big enough, the responsible cabinet member/EVP — whether directly or indirectly — resigns to spend more time with family.
__________________
In the movie “Quiz Show” — about the late 50’s revelation that TV quiz shows, certainly “21,” were fixed — the defining moment comes when the young, idealistic congressional investigator (1st in his class at Harvard Law School) confronts the producer of NBC’s “21” with evidence proving the fix was in.
The earnest investigator presses the producer, Dan Enright (his real name) to admit — as the movie’s opening montage confirms — that the higher-ups at NBC and the sponsor Geritol were not just aware of the fix but actively engaged.
Enright, the producer, tells the investigator that he’d never be allowed back in the door of any television network if he admitted anyone else knew. “And they didn’t,” he claims.
Later, the CEO of Geritol (played brilliantly by Martin Scorcese, better known for his work as a director) all but admits to the young congressional investigator that he knew. But, Scorcese’s character says, the fallen producer will never admit the truth because . . .
“The public has a very short memory. But corporations? They never forget.”
________________
So what all this means is Goodell never knew.
Whether true or not, Goodell never knew.
Some subordinate dropped the ball.
The NFL will send that person, and maybe his supervisor, quietly packing.
And in time, he and anyone else who takes the fall will find a soft place to land someone in the NFL’s extended business universe.
Just a theory . . . .
Good theory. More recent example is GM. It was clear to lower- and mid-level lawyers that there were issues with GM’s cars but the GC was kept out of the loop (insulated). As the hammer fell on GM the lower and mid level guys were fired while the GM remains b/c he wasn’t told until the last minute.
Such is American life.
Great business study in failed disaster management.
Thoughts on Hayes Pullard from USC in the 4-5 of next rounds draft? Reminds me of Meco with the pop he brings but should be able to cover better. Looks like a hell of a competitor.
I haven’t done shit for tape study since July. With that caveat, my impression of his JR tape was: Not a real big guy. Right around 6′, needs to come in at least there at the combine. Musclar but needs to add some weight tot the frame before he can become consistent player. Fairly instinctive. Flashes alot due to this. During individual tape study less impressive. Not great at POA, added strength required to take on OL. Decent in coverage but a bit stiff in the hips. Overall, probably needs a year or two to learn and grow, would def not want to start him week 1 year 1. Upside is probably a solid starter. Not a dynamic player that teams scheme around but nobody has 22 of those.
I was thinking of you when I posted this. Thanks for the response. Sounds like a fifth rounder.
Justin Gilbert is still terrible. 😛
Lol, didn’t seem him play last week.
Why Chip is on his way to be the greatest coach of the Philadelphia Eagles, this interview puts an exclamation point on it… listen to whole thing, but the point is made at the 3:20 mark. Enjoy!
Angelo analyzes the Eagles vs Jaguars game with Head Coach Chip Kelly
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/audio/angelo-cataldi-and-the-morning-team/angelo-analyzes-the-eagles-vs-jaguars-game-with-head-coach-chip-kelly/
It’s crazy how smart and calm Chip sounds. He is on a whole different level than most coaches out there i.e. Jim Schwarz, Washburn, etc.
Buddy Ball is was what got me hooked. Chip is a all the great coaches wrapped up in one. TastyKake 🙂 in it’s truest form.
This was excellent. Chip’s the best.
Agreed!
I heard he makes the best chips……….. see what I did there?
Missed it… Eagles!
So what do Goodell know and when did he know it?
In less than 48 hours, he’s going to announce the appointment of an “independent” outside counsel to conduct an internal investigation into the process surrounding the Ray Rice matter.
Spygate cover-up, now this. He’s good. Let’s see how this plays out.
Your theory is probably right that Goodell might have never saw the tape directly for a couple of reasons.
This response was so typical too. Witch hunt by an ‘independent counsel’ to find the bagman/bagwomen who will take the sword for this screwup.
Politics of big business, same as the politics that run our country.
It is so freaking disgusting!!!
it’s great if you’re the right person.
Yeah, the 1 percent. I agree.
Crazy that Panther’s owners was giving tear filled speech regarding zero tolerance on DV when they are allowing Greg Hardy to play. If he’s not in jail i’m not sure the league needs to do a ton more. Don’t love morality policing by nfl.
He has been convicted once by the judge. He is now going in front of a jury for his appeal. The Rice news is not going to help his abusive case.
ray mcdonald played week 1. and unless anyone has heard otherwise, nothing’s changed with him
like with anything else if you are valuable you can say. if you’re a PS player they’ll drop you.
If a franchise had any decency, hardy and McDonald will be deactivated, team decision… They can continue to get paid, but they don’t need to be on the field until their case concludes … Niners won’t deactivate McDonald, and it’s a travesty that Hardy is allowed to play??instead of crying like a bitch that owner needs to deactivate Greg hardy
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If any of us had these accusations hanging over our heads guilty or innocent we wouldn’t be allowed to go to work today
these fools lie right to our faces like it’s second nature. or maybe they really believe their own bs?
Fuck him too… And his crocodile tears.. He isn’t fooling anyone, Hardy is on a one year deal! which means they will play him, not extend his contract, so they will never have had to punish him or deal with the suspension he will face… What a bunch of fucking scam artists,,, they just ensured they will get full service from The Kraken for the entire duration of his contract,… He should be in tears over being a piece of shit weasle who has a woman beater fighting for him in the trenches.
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He was found guilty for beating a woman, and because he is appealing he gets to play? What if he appeals again all the way to the supremes court? The ruling won’t come down til after he plays anen tire career.. You were found guilty in a court of law, why are you on the fucking field while Lane Johnson can’t even talk to a coach?
And he has enough guns to make any third world warlord blush.
Right on the money. Just heard it on the news.
EhWhat a joke… The NFL is paying for this “independent investigation”
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Tired of being lied to. Fact of the matter is:
1) if you saw the tape and you did the owner a favor and only suspended rice two games, then you can’t continue As commissioner
.,
2) if you stuck your head in the sand like an Ostridge and refused to look at the tape the NFL has in it’s possession before handing out the suspension than you are Incompetant…
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What do you prefer losing your job over Roger? Being incompetent pr lying to cover up a SCANDEL? Either should cost him his job
Maybe he can get Lois Lerner to go over his emails.
right I don’t see any benefit to the investigation other than to somehow point the attention away from Roger.
But I would like the investigation to show who Peter King and others’ sources were from back in July.
This investigation is just designed to create time so that the heat on Roger just blows over… Hopefully all those annoying “rights groups” don’t fall for it and just keep attacking Goodell every day… I’ll be pissed if Goodell survives this crap
[…] So Much For Stability – Iggles BlitzThe Eagles suffered some injuries in the season opener. RT Allen Barbre is out for the year with an ankle injury. ILB Najee Goode is out for the year with a torn pectoral muscle. LG Evan Mathis is on short term IR with his MCL injury. That meant the team needed to make some roster changes. Let’s meet the new guys. Wade Smith was signed to help the OL. He has started 98 games in his career, most of that coming as the LG of the Houston Texans. Smith is the kind of versatile, veteran player the team wanted to add. It should be easier to get him coached up on the scheme and playbook than if they added a young guy. Smith knows LG inside and out. He now has to learn the Eagles version of LG. […]
Tom, curious to know why you think the plan is to start Wade smith? I just don’t find it realistic that we would ditch our Ricky Bobby tempo offense so that we can start an offensive lineman off the street, who we know is Not going to be in “eagles shape”
.,,,
Rather have the conditioning of Dennis, Molk! Tobin or Gardner then to Ditch the identity of our team(tempo) so that we can start Wade smith…I don’t at all few that as realistic, some of our young players have been with Stoutland for two summers now training to step up if this situation came up…
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This is an opportunity for young backups to step up, show that they are capable fill ins……think we are extremely Lucky that we will get Mathis back at the end of the year….we are definitely going to win the division and make the playoffs! by then Mathis will be back to give us a boost in the playoffs which should be huge
Today Chip confirmed that Dennis Kelly and Gardner will start. And that playing them won’t affect our tempo. He said only way our tempo is effected is if we suffer another injury and are forced to play Wade Smith…
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Also talked about how the enormous size of the colts defensive Line sticks out…. We will obviously use our Tempo to get the big boys up front tired..
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Chip also confirmed my thought that we will see a ton of man this week where last week we saw so little against the jags zone based defense
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Chip,also mentioned how great Jason Peters has been for our young OL and how he even works a lot with our young defenders…
Annonymous owner says “no owner will support Roger if this is true, not one”
Geagle — the use of DEADskins is offensive to the Greatful Dead, Walking Dead and Night of the Living Dead to name a few so please use a little more PR. Thank you.
Lol that was good…. I appologize, I will try to be more sensitive in the future
🙂
Damn . . . what about Dawn of the Dead?
And that 1938 classic, “Dead Men Tell No Tales”?
Goodells words to the saints for Bountygate “IGNORANCE IS NOT AN EXCUSE”
…
So how is he trying to get off with the, I haven’t seen the video approach? The only way you didn’t see the video, was if you purposely didn’t want to see the video, which makes you a joke that needs to be fired….. Then again, I don’t believe for one second that the powerful NFL machine didn’t see the tape
I was expecting more articles about the next game. Instead of waiting — here are my thoughts:
I think Luck will have an easy time vs. our D. I expect Hilton to get behind our secondary on a couple of occasions.
Their run game won’t mean anything. Ertz continues to shine and JM has a big game(I know, not much of a stretch there).
Foles rebounds and Sproles scores again.
The clear winner though — will be the team with the ball last. Going to be a great game on national TV.
One thing I’m curious to watch against the Colts is the prevalence of the Nickel package and how often we come out in 3-4 base.
Seems like we would be smart to lean towards pass defense over run defense, based on Colts’ strengths.
Maybe Boykin will break 50% defensive snaps this week!
maybe we show our new dime?
It didn’t look great against the Jags… Though the base defense had just as many communication issues in the secondary, to the point that Deadspin is already anointing the guy that benefited from them.
http://regressing.deadspin.com/is-jaguars-wr-allen-hurns-for-real-1632152603/+marchman
Defense was excellent against the jags
There are gifs in the link I posted. Watch them. They show our secondary making huge mistakes that led directly to Hurns looking like a star.
and after the two early errors ,how many points did they score
Two blown plays, off of horrible offensive turnovers…
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The one TD is a simple pre snap miscommunication between Cary and Nate…… Defense played a fantastic game minus maybe 5 plays…. I saw huge strides from the defense….. What I needed to see improve was pass rush, which was excellent. Cox was a beast and Kendricks blitzed 33% of the time? Billy talked about some occasions be dropped both OLBs so Kendrick wasn’t a Blitzer! he was just the 4th pass rusher which is brilliant because Mykal has been a fantastic Blitzer since college!?mall game they used the threat of A gap blitz to get one on one matchups for Cox which he took advantage of and dominated all game, other times they led to free rushes for guys like Nate Allen…. They let the jags convert like 2 of 15 3rd downs, which is the main improvement from last year that I needed to see… Both our young nose tackles were excellent…Thornton was really strong…Curry and BG played a good amount of snaps and produced, Barwin was great… Secondary broke up a bunch of passes, and pressed them to death in the second half…. Clean up a few communication things on the backend and let Jenkins and Carrol get some continuity with their new team mates and we will be fine…. We managed to do all that against a gameplan that didn’t call for much Boykin, one of our best players…
..,
You are high if you think 3 bad plays, two TDs off of turnovers, giving up 17 points, shutout in second half while we were making a comeback is anything but awesome defense.
GTFO here… You either don’t know defense or your expectations are ridiculous…which is it? Calling the defense performance anything but a step in the right direction is bulshit
RE: The Investigation . . .
In terms of process, Robt Mueller — ex-FBI chief, former federal prosecutor, former Marine — and his staff will work in classic law-enforcement style, working from the bottom up.
The NFL’s independent counsel will *NOT* be targeting Goodell. There are no targets in this type of investigation.
That said, the lawyers/investigators will likely start with a general interview of an NFL senior exec involved in the security/investigative process. The reason is to get an outline of how the NFL is supposed to do things.
That my be Goodell. Or it may be Jeff Miller, whose title is VP & Chief Security Officer for the NFL.
Later in the investigation, a substantive interview of “Witness #1” will take place regarding the events.
Any policy or procedure manuals will reviews.
All emails and other communications will be collected — from NFL HQ, from the Ravens, and from anyone else within the NFL who may have had communications about the Rice matter.
All documents, such memos and phone messages, will be collected. That includes saved voice messages.
The investigative team will approach all non-NFL personnel/entities identified in any document, email, phone messages, notes, etc. for an interview.
That includes the MEDIA — which will require ALL NFL-related personnel to sign waivers of any promise of confidentiality, express or implied or by policy, granted by MEDIA witnesses.
Then . . . after ALL THAT INFORMATION IS REVIEWED . . . the investigative team will begin talking to more senior NFL people.
The process is like building a pyramid.
And the shorter the time table set by the NFL, the greater the opportunity that something will be missed or not explored fully.
Not that the outcome won’t be reliable. Just that things can be missed.
That’s my expectation, at least.
thanks good info. But why do all this, spend all this money? The tape showed exactly what we thought happened. This whole thing was botched by the NFL. Although I am curious (like looking at an accident), it doesn’t really matter whether Roger knew or not. So why the song and dance?
this isn’t like, e.g., PSU where there were potential lawsuits and criminal violations. This is just about on a scale of incompetent v. lying, what happened. Bringing in the former head of FBI seems like way overkill.
Like trying to add honor and integrity where at this point, it cannot be added.
My view just really changed when the tape came out and they were all like “this changes everything” and cut him and suspended him. Just a PR move.
The “investigation” is simply designed to buy time for Goodell, hoping that by the time a long thorough investigation has finished, this will all blow over and Goodell can end up keeping his job…
..
That’s the only reason this investigation is happening, because there isn’t anything to investigate, out of all the possible outcomes, NFL. Is STILL WRONG and Roger STILL HAS GOTS TO GO!!! “You ain’t gotta go home, but you gotta get the hell out of here” Na, Na, Na, Na,,, hey hey hey,…goodbye!
Question:
“But why do all this, spend all this money?”
_________
Answer:
The investigation isn’t about Ray Rice.
The investigation will serve a few functions.
1. Media sources have put Goodell in a very poor light — contradicting his statement that the no one in the NFL had seen the video “to my [Goodell’s] knowledge.”
The “too my knowledge” is key here. The question is really not whether Goodell knew about the video. He’s way too smart to lie — and there’s no reason to lie. If he’d seen the video at this point, he’d have resigned already.
The question is, was Goodell personally negligent/grossly negligent/reckless in the evidence-acquisition process?
In other words, did Goodell *REASONABLY* rely on his chief of security to gather all the low-hanging evidence fruit.
So issue No. 1 is, whether Goodell’s conduct was reasonable — including, the question “should he have done more himself.”
2. The investigation will buy time and lots of silence.
On the one hand, owners and NFL HQ people now have an excuse to say nothing to the media . . . using the shield of: “we’re looking into the matter using the ex-head of the FBI, so let’s see what the investigation finds — and we’re confident Mueller will get to the bottom of things.”
3. Functionally, the report that’ll be prepared at the end of the investigation — very likely in writing, but could result in only a summary being made available to the public — will do a “what was good, what was bad” about the NFL’s internal investigation process.
In other words, the investigation will make recommendations about how to improve the process itself. And may result in the disappearance — quietly — of several NFL HQ folks.
This aspect would, I expect (or should, if I were doing this), invite buy-in from the NFLPA.
The players will get something out of this. In exchange, the NFLPA will stand side by side with the league on future process.
That means the NFLPA will also quiet down about Goodell — assuming he doesn’t come out looking personally responsible for the investigative screw up in not getting the video.
______________
Again, just some theories.
If Roger wanted to see the video, he would have…PERIOD!
..
Roger told the saints that “ignorance is no excuse” when he punished them for the bullshit Bountygate which has been happening forever
GE:
We don’t know what he asked for, and what he was told.
Not at this point.
When the Saints bounty investigation was done, the NFL’s internal investigators — by all accounts — presented Goodell with everything, and more, needed to make his decision.
From the outside looking in, without more information, why wouldn’t it be reasonable for Goodell to rely on the very same people who handled the Saints investigation to gather everything relevant to Rice?
Please..the NFL has more former FBI and State police working for them then the federal government… A powerful security force like the NFL can get anything they want… Only reason Roger didn’t see it, was if he purposely didn’t want to see it…
…not to mention the highly respected associated press says not only does the NFL have the video in it’s possession since April, but they also have a voicemail from the NFL office confirming they received the video and how the contents were terrible…..
…
If the AP press says they have confirmation that the NFL received the video in April, I don’t understand what is left to discuss.. Just a bullshit investigation designed to buy time for Roger to hope it blows over in time and people won’t care as much when he keeps his job two months from now when the bullshit investigation comes to a conclusion.
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Sorry, not interested in any “investigation” where the party that has everything to lose is paying the bill
GE wrote:
“If the AP press says they have confirmation that the NFL received the video in April, I don’t understand what is left to discuss”
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What’s left is, “What did Goodell know, and when did he know it?”
I’m not disagreeing at all that, per the AP, someone at NFL HQ had the tape. That’s likely a given.
But who had the tape?
What did that person say to whomever he reported?
And, in the end, what was Goodell told?
And what should Goodell have asked?
I don’t understand under what scenario could the NFL. Have received such a heinous tape, and Goodell be kept in the dark about it… According to AP press, the confirmation voicemail from NFL offices saying they received it came weeks before Goodell handed out the bullshit 2 game suspension
…
If Goodell didn’t see it, my only conclusion is he knew about it, and purposely did not want to see it..
not trying to defend anybody here, but the only possible thing i can come up with –
the guy who receives the tape compares the tape with what Rice told everybody. says “well, yeah, thats exactly what we already know” and just files it away , deciding not to waste anyone elses time.
how likely is it? who knows.
its certainly very likely that Goodell explicitly told others that he did not want to see the video.
The lady from the NFL that confirmed Recieving the tape, on the message to the police said “you are right, this is horrible”… That implies that it’s worse than what they expected
RP:
Your scenario makes for some very good in-house testimony . . .
Not only is that what Rice and wife said.
It’s what the criminal complaint filed against him said.
There was never a question that Rice hit his wife.
So it was an “unfortunate” judgment by someone tasked with putting the evidence package together for Goodell and his advisers — that’s what the investigator’s report could say.
Interesting that Ozzie Newsome says Ray Rice didn’t deceive him at all… Suggesting he told him what the tape would show… Since then ozzies boss! the owners so says, we are all to blame, we love Ray so much, I think we all saw what we wanted to see, … He basically is admitting, what the NFL should have admitted, that they saw it..
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Two weeks ago Goodell admitted to making a mistake in only giving him two game suspension. At that moment he should have admitted to having the tape, and the apology would have covered having the tape too… Instead he is claiming the NFL never had it, and the AP press says they have proof of that being a lie
GE:
Tape aside . . . Goodell’s mishandling started the day he announced the suspension.
Once the blow back began, Goodell needed to scream “Mea Culpa”.
Rule 1 of crisis management:
** Be Honest and Forthcoming.
The NFL poo-pooed the reaction.
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Rule 2 of crisis management:
** Act Quickly and Decisively.
NFL’s done just the opposite for months.
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Rule 3:
** Take Responsibility, Even if You Don’t Mean It
The collective hubris of Goodell and the owners made that impossible.
And even with the tape, the NFL hasn’t taken responsibility for squat.
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Rule 4:
** Treat People with Respect.
The NFL’s waited way to long for the games to distract all the “stupid, spittle-frothing” fans to forget that about Rice because — you know — fans are morons.
This incidents provided a window into how the NFL sees its fans . . . the ones NOT in the sky-boxes.
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Rule 5:
**Good Conduct Up Front Pays Off Later.
Do everything in Rule 1-4 right away and the public forgives quickly.
The NFL has done EVERYTHING wrong here.
Hence, people are ticked off and won’t let go.
Well said!!! His only move was mea culpa. he could have just admitted it and suspended himself and gotten to keep his job….he tried to watergate his way out of it by admitting small things, and lying about the big ones, so he needs to go…
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All he had to do was come clean the day he apologized for botching the situation by only suspending him two games…and this would have been all over…. He tried to get slick and deceive, so he gots to go…
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Weasel even took a shot at TMZ,,, we only get intel via reputable methods, talking down on TMZ for buying the tape… Yet their is evidence that the NFL received and confirmed Recieving it in april before he handed down the two game suspension
d’accordo
4. Whatever part of the investigative part of the report gets released will absolve Goodell in large part while focusing attention on someone else (works best if that person is about to die anyway). Good investigators, like good experts, know who is paying their bills, and who is in position to hire them for further work in the future. You simply don’t burn bridges with the folks who’ve got money + the likelihood of needing your services in the future.
Ordinarily, no question.
That said, Mueller’s a different cat.
how can Peter King and Mort or whomever report on the video, and describe the contents, if their (NFL) sources didn’t see it? I doubt Peter King’s source is the NJ police.
when Roger says “no one in the NFL saw it” he likely means his outside team saw it, told him about it, he said “don’t send it to me”.
thank you for posting this!
@ACViking:disqus & others with the good questions.
What makes you think that Goddell would resign if he had seen the video already?
Without a ‘smoking gun’ or a very close informant in the NFL, there is no way they can prove that Goodell ever did or did not see the video even if there is some distant chance it was directly sent to him or he was given access.
He can just stonewall, go through this ‘independent’ review, and move on.
BS77 asked:
“What makes you think that Goddell would resign if he had seen the video already?”
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If Goodell saw the video and lied, he’d have already resigned because an independent investigation was coming down the pike.
It’s not the seeing, but the lying that would be the problem.
Goodell’s having some credibility problems — deserved or not.
And with Mueller being the investigator, no way Goodell could survive that.
That’s my take, at least.
I don’t think Goodell saw it either.. I agree that he wouldn’t lie about it,,, he is too smart for that… That’s why I think when the NFL received the video and came to Goodell with it he responded with something like “don’t you dare send me that video and I don’t ever want to hear a word about it again”… So that he could deny it if it ever came to this…
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He told the saints when he hammered them with a ridiculus punishment for doing what NFL defenses were all doing for decades by telling the saints that “ignorance is no excuse”.. So him not seeing it is no excuse. NFL had the video, if he didn’t see it than he is Incompetant and he doesn’t have proper control over his office…either way, he gots to go
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He fined players 78 million dollars, so I expect better from the moral authority, judge, jury and executioner,.. He either didn’t want to see it so he could deny it, or he is so incompetant that people working for him in his office hid it from him…. Either way, he has to go
The investigation is non-sense. Investigation aimed at 2 questions: 1) what’d NFL do to obtain the video and 2) did the video make it to the NFL, if so who saw it / what happened to it?
In either case, based on these questions it’s hard for Goddell to leave with much dirt on his hands. I’m going to guess that NFL will have to review it’s policies and procedures for evidence collection and elevation of evidence — hard for CEO to get killed in these instances usually it’s middle management.
To me Goddell *would* be in a tougher situation if his chronies (the owners) weren’t controlling the investigation. Goddell has been sort of ruthless with his i’m the judge / jury / executioner mentality in the NFL but I don’t think he’ll die by that same sword.
Lol, could u imagine if a tape of what Greg Hardy did emerges? With the assualt rifles and assaulting his girlfriend? .. Would Hardy get to play this weekend,while his two year appeal for a guilty verdict plays out?
if you think that would be bad imagine if there was tape of vick fighting/killing dogs
I find it ridiculous that you need to have a video of heinous shit like this for it to be taken serious… Having a video of this crap shouldn’t change anything,,, it should be taken as serious whether their is video or not.. Greg Hardy was handed a guilty verdict..he can tie up appeal for YEARS and keep playing…how the hell can he get to play? We shouldn’t have to block that piece of shit on sundays… I used to Love the kraken too
well the sad thing is we already had video of ray ray dragging his wife out of that elevator and that wasn’t enough
I just heard a really great question… What will be the date, when the NFL finally hires a woman at an executive level position?
The woman with the inside track is Katie Blackburn, Ex VP for Ops for the Cincinnati Bengals. Also, daughter of owner Mike Brown. Dartmouth and UCinn Law grad
That’s a good call…She been working towards it for a while now
GE:
Il mio amico, sono d’accordo con lei circa goodell.
Just lawyering some of the issues is all.
No, I know… I’m doing the same… nothing aimed towards you at all, just trying to devils advocate thru both sides of this mess
GE
On the topic of NFL and women . . .
Goodell’s done if somehow the Rice debacle starts translating into a money problem.
QUESTION:
How do see people voting with their wallets on this?
Only way this screws up the money, is if NFL sponsors start pulling out of their NFL endorsements..
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Interesting that the leading lady from the woman activist group says she has 50 cases of pasts domestic disturbance “that Rose to the level of charges” that the NFL didn’t really take serious and were swept under the rug during Goodells 9yr reign..
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Teams can suspend guys like Hardy and lose more games! but it sill won’t effect the money.. Tickets are already sold, TV money is already in place, parking and beverage fees will still go in their pocket… Teams can lose more games like the panthers! doing the right thing and suspending hardy and it wouldn’t effect the money..
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Only way money really comes into play are if it gets too much for sponsors to continue being associated with the NFL
This year’s wins effect next year’s money.
Not really… Teams even raise prices after horrible seasons
This is not same as clippers owner. No obvious unrepentant target. NFL said woops we will make domestic violence more serious. Clippers owner would not apologize. No advertiser can avoid and piss off the nfl juggernaught.
Investigation will take forever and nfl won’t comment till done. Once the dust settles and people care about the new news story, beiber’s hair, then report gets released on a Friday night during offseason.
Goodel is a god among the nfl owners, bringing them cash with a wheelbarrow and has won huge fights on their behalf versus players, tax payers, advertisers, media company contracts.
definitely not a Sterling situation.
so forget sponsors.
the question is women fans — whom I’ll wager don’t care what the report says 4-6 weeks from now (on the quick side).
can enough people do anything that tips the money scale?
Nope…only the sponsors can effect the money
Most employers don’t fire someone for domestic violence.
Women’s groups would be protesting a private employer for not punishing their third party agents (players are not employees) harshly enough in comparison to other punishments for misdeeds. The pressure would be a little misdirected.
I don’t think sponsors can be convinced to drop nfl.
Goodel already has breast cancer awareness week to involve female viewers and give sponsors a ‘good’ image. I’m sure he’d be happy to add anti-domestic violence theme as well. There are so many good living themed messages nfl wouldn’t mind adding another, play60, breast cancer, urban youth organizations, etc.
We shall see about that… Another shoe might drop. The leading lady from the woman’s advocacy group says she has I like 30 examples of domestic abuse cases that were serious enough to have chargers filed, having been swept under the rug and not adressed appropriately by the NFL…. If this is all true. And a Pandora’s box opens, than it could get bad enough to where sponsors just don’t want to be associated with it right now….. I don’t know if her allegation s true and if it is, what type of proof she has…. But if another shoe drops, we could get into fuckin up the sponsor dollars territory
thoughtful.
and good advice for NFL
players are not employees? are you sure, that does not sound right
RobNE:
I’m with you.
NFL players are definitely “employees,” certainly for purposes of federal labor laws governing unions and federal tax laws governing team owners and state-law worker’s comp regimes.
As for firing them, teams are limited by the terms of the individual player contracts, which of course all have the same standard terms and incorporate the CBA.
you can’t have much more control over how someone performs their job than a football player. Be here, travel here, do it this way, get fined for missing practice, for not working out, etc.
You’re sure right about control, i.e., “How they perform their job.”
“No. 18, you line up just inside the numbers, run 8 yards downfield, then cut to your left and stop.”
Spot on!
I don’t think anyone really cares except the Media and NOW. Women who are ravens fans like Ray Rice — reaction of lots of people who saw the video is “well what’d you think the video was going to show”. Women on other teams may hate ray rice but they’ll still support their teams.
It’s non-fans who will hem and haw but they don’t spend money on the NFL anyway. Maybe the NFL starts to celebrate domestic violence programs with game paraphernalia like it does with breast cancer. We’re in an era where money heals all wounds.
Even with stuff like Ferguson, a month later — who cares?
Hopefully never. Just put a skirt on Alex Henery. He needs a job.
Henery doesn’t have the leg strength to walk in heels.
Fantasy dilema…mjustin Forsett is a good player who has been quietly bouncing around from team to team in the NFL for years waiting to get his chance,.. Think that chance will come tonight at home against a crappy steelers team. I feel like he will answer the bell and have a big night for the ravens! who I think will come together because of this mess and “us against the world” on their way to a win tonight, and i have a feeling Forsett takes advantage of this opportunity tonight and have a good game…
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But, if this Ravens Vs. Steelers game is doomed to be 17-20, 21-24 sort of game, can Forsett be a better fantasy option this week as a flex over guys like:
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1) Kelvin Benjamin at home against the Lions (managed to even have a good game without Cam last week)
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2) jaguars Allen Hurns @ crappy Washington secondary. Lee and Cecil Short both are having injury problems..Hurns may be the #1 this week
..
3) Baltimores Steve smith vs. Pitt tonight?
..
4) Danny Woodhead vs. Seattle. Rivers said he won’t avoid Sherman’s side like Aaron Rodgers did, but against Seattle secretary, Rivers could end up dinking and dunking with Woodhead, starting anyone against Seattle is risky tho..
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Help!
Re: K-Benj
Did you see highlights of his first game?
Seemingly, like almost every early 1st and 2nd Rd pick at WR in 2014, the media in Carolina was talking up KB.
That’s why I ask.
He is LEGIT!! Kid can play, at the very least he will be a great redzone weapon, but the kid easily looks like the most ready rookie WR which is scary because like Lane last year, he was supposed to be Raw compared to his competitors
RZ weapon . . .
Newton threatens run. KB should get lots of single coverage down there.
Greg Olsen is no slouch either
B-I-G targets
Looks like your trying to spin the waiver wire into gold.
I won the past two years because of the waiver wire
..
Bet 5 people on this site don’t know the name of GB starting TE… He is on my bench 🙂
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I have Wes Welker who is hurt as my flex, and I have Josh Gordon who I’m waiting to be reinstated ;)..
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My other WRs are Emannuel sanders and Maclin
TE Ertz
RB: Jamaal Charles, Reggie bush
QB FOles/Cutler
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Eagles defense
.
Defenders: Robert Quinn, Fletcher Cox, kendricks
I think it’s going to go the other way for the ravens just like it did for the dolphns. Very much doubt that offense is going to be rolling even though steelers D looks like hot a**. I’d stick with benjamin you know he’s going to get a TD.
Told you ravens win,,, but I didn’t start Forsett
What came out of the last “independent investigation” aka the Wells investigation of Miami bullygate?
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Has anything even come from that 4 month investigation, or did it just buy enough time for us to no longer care about the bully SCANDEL?
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I honestly don’t recall that investigation leading to a damn thing….. I’m supposed to believe that the NFL is going to pay this investigator to condemn the NFL? Really? That’s what I’m being expected to believe?
I wonder if a couple of owners are thinking, Roger has to go, but a lot of others are saying well I don’t know who to believe, i won’t vote him out unless we are sure. So ok, we’ll investigate. I mean, it serves no public purpose. Maybe it’s the result of an internal power struggle.
Investigation buys time. (And some other things, too.)
Dust needs to settle. Smart business men — which nearly all these owners had to be to get the scratch to buy their teams — do not make emotional or seat-of-the-pants decisions.
On the other hand, they’ve no doubt formulated a good instinct about things business related.
So while they’d like to be fully informed, I think lots of them are lining up on one side or another.
After all, they’ve had Goodell around for a long time. They know how the guy operates.
They gave Goodell 44million two years ago
I wonder what his contract says about grounds for termination?
I’m betting that drunk driving and using drugs is not one of them (See Jim Irsay).
(i kid)
Irsays penalty was a joke too..
…He shouldn’t recieve his portion of the revenue sharing this year…that’s a real punishment for an owner
That’s potent punishment!
How else do you punish a billionaire? He isn’t allowed to attend games? Boo hoo
That’s hilarious
Give his portion of the revenue to charity…
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They took 78 mil from players.. Greg Hardy gets fined 10k for painting his face.. Jimmy Graham gets fined a brand new Acura for dunking on goal posts,… And you punish the billionaire the equivalent of $200 fine and he can’t attend a few games? He is a billionaire, he can pay for a helicopter to hover over the field so he can watch the game from the air for all he cares…
Irsay’s the poster boy for how the US Senate may be an exclusive club. But being an NFL owner? Ultra-exclusive . . . and way better.
The good life for sure,,,
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Conveniently Rooney and Mara are in charge of overseeing the “investigation” two, very pro Goodell owners, not the great men that their fathers were…
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I just want the owners to turn on Roger, him be disgraced and fired, get pissed off at Robert Kraft for not having his back and admit that the eagles should be Super Bowl champs. 😉 that’s my end game!
“Conveniently Rooney and Mara are in charge of overseeing the “investigation” two, very pro Goodell sides. . .”
Great intel
End game . . . Eagles win.
You’re in rare form.
🙂
wait a minute, is there the possibility of the Eagles being awarded the SB over the Pats? Now we are on to something. Now I see the good that can come out of all this.
Whats the investigation for? The ONLY thing that needs to be investigated is if the proof that the AP press alleges to have is true,,
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If indeed the NFL. Had this video since before the two game suspension was handed down, I see no way Goodell should be allowed to keep his job,,,
,,
All I want to know is if what the ASsociated press is claiming is true… That’s all that matters, any other investigation is bullshit window dressing designed to distract us,..
,,,
Goodell said he didn’t have the tape, took a shot at TMZ saying they don’t stoop to unrepeatable ways of getting evidence like TMZ did.. He basically talked shit about TMZ to defend why they have the tape and the NFL doesn’t…. Associated press says that’s a lie and they have evidence of NFL confirming to have received the tape weeks before the bogus two game suspension was handed out,,,
,,,
So the only thing that should be investigated is the proof that the AP claims to have
Right but to us, who cares. This is just about whether billionaires want to keep a multi millionaire employed. It’s a PR shell game.
There’s no public purpose. We all (speaking for us all) think the NFL has handled this very poorly, whether he saw it or not.
I wonder what kind of dialogue’s been going on with sponsors.
Not that anyone’s pulling out.
Just a word or two why an investigation would make people who run the sponsors feel better.
‘Cause for those folks, independent investigations are part of their corporate conduct policy.
Yup yup..
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Goodell needs to step down, and his successor needs to ammend his power, no more one man as judge jury and executioner of punishing players…player punishment needs to move to a jury system of judgment… No man like Goodell should have all that power over plays ever again. He took 78 mil from players.. No one man should have that power…if someone is losing 78 mil, I want a committe to make that decision
Wow… I thought she spit on him… He knocked her the fuck out worse than Craig did to deebo, AND he spit on her twice? Wow!!! Call me crazy, but spitting may be as bad as hitting…
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Note to humanity. I don’t care if you are man, woman, Gorilla, alien…if you spit on me, you will wake up on the floor having lost time…no one has the right to spit in my face
“You will wake up on the floor having lost time . . . .”
Maybe you’re most memorable line. Hard to beat that.
I’m still laughing
I assume he’ll force you to read one his classic 3000 word posts.
Find a better way to get attention than swinging from my nuts
Maybe I’ll write a few dozen incoherent bandwidth hoggers using brilliant turns of phrase like “hugging my nuts.”
Colt Anderson has been feeding the colts our secrets. Piece of crap
it won’t make a difference, eagles will win this game.
I know.. I guarantee we win
you think henry josey was a big help?
I didn’t make this up.. This is a ESPN story
I love that you share information that you find elsewhere here; I often don’t have time to read much beyond this site.
I would love it even more if you would include links.
How can I include links from IPad or iPhone… I would, I just don’t know how
I am I Safari on an iPad, but Chrome is similar.
Touch the address bar a few times until you get a “select all” option. Select all, copy, then return to the Igglesblitz tab. Long press the window where you are typing and select paste.
HELP!
To the New Yorkers:
Does anybody know the atmosphere at the Shorty’s in Flatiron Manhattan? I am considering watching the MNG there but have only been to the Shorty’s in Hell’s Kitchen where the atmosphere is great thanks to many Eagles fans.
Your advise is much appreciated!
This is three blocks away from my studio. It’s a notoriously drunken frat crowd.
So full of drunken And loud eagles fans?!
whats better then your offense having a crap day and putting up 27 points in 2 quaters and winning?
bam!
I hear you mate, glass is definitely half full, and the typical philly dopes think it’s half empty…SMH
Eagles hired flag challenge consultant. No I didn’t make that up.
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Chip always one to improve, has been losing penalty challenges, so the mad scientist hires outside help…. How do you get a job as a challenge consultant?
Is his name Joe Banner? I hear he works now as a “challengologist.”
Point out a detail in the Ray Rice video that would provide indisputable evidence that he is not a total asshole.
They would hire you on the spot.
Hahahah Cam Newton is a funny dude… They play the lions this week and during press conferences he keeps calling Suh “N-Donkey-kong Suh” bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Justin Tucker’s kicks are incredible. I hope Parkey can really develop into something special, hell, even something above average!