Learning Day
Posted: May 28th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 287 Comments »The Eagles OTAs were open to the media. Chip Kelly held a press conference. That means we got a lot of information today, even though it wasn’t particularly significant. We’re football fans trapped in the wasteland of the spring. That means any scraps of info become key nuggets for us to soak in and obsess over.
Let’s cover some items of interest:
* This morning I wrote about Nolan Carroll being the CB opposite of Byron Maxwell with the starting defense. Chip Kelly singled him out as a player that had a strong offseason and impressed the coaches. Then Kelly mentioned that there were 50 other guys he could have talked about. The fact Carroll was the first name for him to mention has to be somewhat noteworthy.
* Walter Thurmond is now taking reps at Safety.
Eagles approached Walter Thurmond about switching to safety three weeks ago. He thought it made sense. A lot of depth at CB.
— Zach Berman (@ZBerm) May 28, 2015
Kelly said that Thurmond made sense at S because of his ability to play in the slot as well as his intelligence, instincts and the fact he’s always around the ball.
Kelly didn’t mention the fact that the Eagles are so thin at S that they need to be creative to find possible solutions. Chris Maragos was opposite of Malcolm Jenkins today with the 1’s. I love Maragos, but he is meant to play on STs and be used only in emergencies on defense.
Earl Wolff is limited while rehabbing from a knee injury.
Chris Prosinski and Thurmond were the backup Safeties. Jaylen Watkins and Jerome Couplin were the #3 group.
* Allen Barbre is playing LG with Evan Mathis skipping the voluntary OTAs. Matt Tobin is one of several guys playing RG. This is interesting to me.
Mathis is expected to be the LG this year. Barbre would then play RG. Why not let him spend as much time as possible there this summer so he can get as comfortable as possible? Every rep is a chance to work on footwork, technique and things like that.
Does this mean Tobin could win the RG job?
Or does this mean something could happen with Mathis and the starting OGs could be Barbre and Tobin? You don’t want to read too much into something like this, but it does seem interesting to me.
* Tim Tebow is playing QB. He won’t be a FB/H-back/TE or anything else. And G.J. Kinne is working at WR.
PE.com has lots of depth chart info.
* * * * *
The Kelly PC is entertaining. He offered good nuggets on a variety of subjects. The hottest topic is Shady McCoy’s dig at Kelly for getting rid of black players (stars). Kelly said he called McCoy twice, but neither call was accepted. Kelly also said he got word to Shady’s agent to let him know Kelly would like to talk to his former star RB. Nothing has happened so far.
Kelly said race plays no part in his decisions. Jay Glazer offered his take on Twitter.
Didnt they replace McCoy w DeMarco Murray? I've known & trained w Murray since college & I'm pretty sure, actually I'm positive, he's black
— Jay Glazer (@JayGlazer) May 29, 2015
Really disappointing that Shady made those comments.
* * * * *
I have no idea how Sam Bradford will play this year, but listen to his chat with the media and you can see why Kelly loves him. Bradford mentioned a couple of times having to ignore outside things that were being said and written about him. He stays focused on what he can control.
Bradford is coming along well in his rehab from the torn ACL and seems genuinely excited about his chance to play in a dynamic offense. The Rams offense was…well…offensive. But not in the good way.
* * * * *
Jimmy Bama wrote about the practice. A couple of nuggets that stood out.
• The limited participants in practice were Sam Bradford, Earl Wolff, and Marcus Smith. Bradford jogged around a little and made some easy passes, but did not play in team drills. From the little I saw of him, his quick release is obvious. Earl Wolff remains a constant on the “limited participation” front. I don’t want to write him off in May, but the coaching staff can’t be thrilled that he’s seemingly always missing practices and games.
• Tim Tebow was picked off on a tipped pass at the line of scrimmage by rookie DE Brian Mihalik. Tebow’s windup takes a lifetime. It’s fairly easy for defensive linemen to get their hands up to bat passes when it takes the QB eight seconds (estimated) to get the ball out of his hands.
Remember that last year Mark Sanchez looked awful in the spring, but was much better by the summer and then posted solid numbers during the season.
* * * * *
Jeff McLane offered his own practice thoughts. This was interesting.
— With so many new inside linebackers – the Eagles also signed Brad Jones and drafted Jordan Hicks – it looked like Emmanuel Acho had made a full-time move to outside linebacker. The outside linebacker group was down a man with Marcus Smith sidelined with a “leg pull,” per Kelly.
With Marcus Smith out today, Acho might have moved simply because they needed someone to eat reps. Or maybe the new depth at ILB has forced Acho to move outside. He had 8 sacks in college, which is a solid total for a player who wasn’t a primary pass rusher.
_
yeah seems like they are going about business as if evan mathis wont be here.
Maybe, but just the fact that he’s not present means someone else has to play there.
yeah, but the guy who was thought to be the RG? that was a good point by tommy
Worth keeping an eye on, but for now, I’m not looking at this as much of anything.
Except some other folks (D3 for one) were saying Tobin is the better potential player at that spot and Barbre is more of a multi-positional backup.
I think that might be the ultimate resolution. Barbre is the super sub, Tobin RG, and Mathis will eventually be back in the fold (it’s tremendously stupid to hold out under the new CBA, and I don’t Evan is TO level insane).
if evan was here.. allen would be at RG, and D3??
What else do you expect really. Crazy Evan is even on the team still, seems like the kind of thing ck would cut others for… That said clear we don’t have a Ron of quality ol and we’ve shifted in the drafts.
Excited to see what a chip pro team looks like.
The only thing they’re doing is plugging in someone because he is not here. What else should they do, leave a blank spot open at LG?
I think the conjecture of “why would you put someone at spot X? maybe that means that they expect Mathis not to be back” is silly. Sorry T-Law, but I’m calling you out on it too. “Oh my god, when Mathis is out, there’s someone playing at his position! He must be expendable!”
If there are plans to move forward without Mathis, there is nothing in the lineup today that has anything to do with that. They are simply putting players into places because they have to in order to practice. We’re not speculating on how Agholor won’t fit the offense due to the fact that he’s not on the field. That’s because he’s not at camp, either. Yes, the circumstances are different as to why, but come practice time, that doesn’t matter, and they need to field a team to practice.
ehhhhh.. allen is supposed to be the RG.. right? So evan is absent so he plays LG? its most def something to take note of.
Nelson isnt holding out he went to an NFLPA event.
And Prosinki is supposed to be ST. And Thurmond is supposed to play CB. People are reading way too much into this. I never saw either one of the O lineman guaranteed a spot on the line this year. I’m not saying Mathis isn’t on his way out. Just that sometimes tea leaves are simply tea leaves, and don’t say a damn thing about anything except the people trying to garner meaning from them.
we arent reading too much into it, we said its something to take note of. and it is for the reasons stated.
in fact i actually think it might be you who is making too much of it at this point lmfao
“this thing you’re accusing me of? Actually, maybe YOU’RE the one doing it! Yeah!”
That’s SO Charlie Kelly! Classic…ROFL
It’s not that someone was playing his position…it’s that the who didn’t make sense if all the other conjectures are true.
If the starting line is expected to be Mathis at LG and Barbre at RG AND you are expecting Mathis back at some point, it makes the most sense that you would use Tobin at LG so that Barbre gets reps playing where he is projected to start.
Instead, both Barbre and Tobin are not at their expected positions, again, according to conjectures. He could have just as easily “fielded a team to practice” that way and that would have made more sense.
Let me preface this by saying I don’t THINK Chip is racist. This whole story line seems like a sour former player latching on to a controversial decisions (keeping Riley Cooper) that clearly led to split feelings in the locker room, and that former player expressing his frustration poorly. Having said that, it frustrates the hell out of me seeing arguments like Glazer’s of, “Chip signed a black guy, therefore he is not racist.” With the types of protests that are happening around the country right now, racism needs to start being viewed beyond simplistic views of signing x number of black guys vs white guys is proof of not being racist. Racism can come in way more complex forms such as how someone responds to a white player vs a black player, the relatove amount of tolerance someone has for misbehavior between a white and black player, the willingness for someone to let a white or black player become a leader on the team, etc. If Chip Kelly was so racist thay he was unwilling to even sign black players, there is not a chance in hell anyone in the NFL Would have even gotten close to him. Again, I THINK what McCoy said seems like frustration and it is disappointing to hear, but the arguments you most often here that attempt to defend Kelly completely miss the point about what types of ways a person can be racist.
Good points Iskar36. I believe the slippery slope is the idea that Chip penalizes stars who offer independent ideas on scheme. Such a mindset automatically suggests a high probability of being cut. Chip is looking for commitment to offense and defense schemes without self-serving suggestions on change. Suggestions that are NOT self-serving are welcome.
Like I said it’s a slippery slope. But I believe that is the way it is. Another coach could approach the situation differently.
Yeah, I think that’s where ‘there’s fire’ here if anything. Players like DJax and Shady expect to put their feet up on the coaches’ desk and have it explained how the offense will be designed around them, and then Shady cries race when Kelly does things differently. Tra Thomas had a bizarre diatribe against Howard Mudd, Shady didn’t think twice about the implications of telling his babymama to ‘get a job’ on publicly visible social media, and he reversed what he said about Kelly the next day. They may be interpreting scheme neridiness as racial preference.
I’m not sure I agree. I don’t put Shady and Djax in the same Diva category. That could 100% be my perception and not reality. Shady is not missing camps(that I’ve heard) to release records. I don’t remember(and I don’t have the best memory) articles/reports about Shady arguing with coaches on the sidelines(a la Djax). Maybe how Shady is off the field, is a sign of how he is on the field. I really don’t know. No players have made comments about his “teamship”. I believe, 100%, Shady is not here because of a different reason than DJax. (and it has nothing to do with racism).
I agree that Shady and DJax are different. I should say that I didn’t want DJax to go, thought it had to do with money at the time and don’t know what transpired between him and Kelly. Defaming your ex coach who got you your career year in yards gained, after he replaced you with a guy of the same ancestry who was worked for 390 carries and had that used against him in his contract negotiations is a diva move, unless there’s something that he should share with all of us. I don’t mean this as an ad hominem against Shady who played well for us.
I think you’re on to something there. Shady basically “grew up” with the Eagles. I mean that in a double sense of the word as Shady has not known anything else. He was torn from his family and has sour grapes. Just like an ugly divorce where one spouse doesn’t understand why it happened. They lash out….
Djax I think it was money and #culture. Shady I think it was money and playing style. It’s obvious to me that Kelly wanted to change the style of the lead RB on the team. He moved Shady, and tried to sign Gore (declining 1 cut runner) and Matthews (oft-injured 1 cut runner). When Gore fell through, and Murray surprisingly became available (tremendous 1 cut runner coming off a year where he was historically over-used), Kelly jumped in and possibly overpaid for him.
Shady is a 50 HR, 150 strikeout guy. Useful, but not the guy for a coach who expects a player to consistently play within the scheme. Murray is a 30 HR, .310 BA guy. Not as flashy, but far fewer wasted opportunities. And that’s what Chip wants, IMO: consistent execution. The “blur” will turn consistent execution into explosive plays.
I really don’t think Chip cared about the tweets or the bus story. Like you say, never heard anything to suggest Shady didn’t buy in in every other way. His running style just wasn’t what Chip wanted going forward. As a complementary Sproles-like role? Sure. But not as the centerpiece back. And Shady was never going to be anything other than the centerpiece.
Poetry OD. Peotry.
I’m sick of hearing about Chip and racism altogether. He’s not racist. It’s a ridiculous accusation coming from a guy who’s own mom said he is shady and gave him the nickname. McCoy is crazy man Jenkins said it best. Can’t trust a guy like that in your locker room who could make stuff up to disrupt culture. Chip is taking the high road and is still praising leseans skill set and tried calling him multiple times. Nothing about chip screams racism to me at all, nada. It’s a lie and shouldn’t be tied in with these other truly serious events.
Preach!!
It’s a tricky subject. You would prefer people to act the way that you would consider to be “professional”, but that impacts how they should behave, how they should speak, how they should dress, and who they should not associate with.
If you’re being told, as a black person, that you shouldn’t be associating with the “thugs” you grew up with, you might perceive that holding you to that standard while not having the same problem with Riley Cooper’s redneck buddies, you might see it as a subtle form of racism.
Good point.
Maybe if Lesean focused on not calling the mother of his child a whore on twitter, and not tossing another off his “party bus” on the side of a highway he wouldn’t experience so much racism.
Clearly Kelly needs no defending, but your point is taken. One tendency that is prevalent in mainstream and social media, and probably on this board, is to refer to Kelly’s player moves as if he is a grand puppetmaster with no competing issues or mitigating factors when he initiates a player move. His transactions are most often viewed as indicative of a formed opinion that he wants rid of a player. In referring to all of the personnel additions and subtractions this off-season, Kelly has said,”None of this is possible without injuries…”. Prior to that he said specifically about the McCoy trade: “If you’re trying to get better, you have to give something to get something. We gave up a great running back and we received a promising, talented linebacker AND we were able with the freed up money to sign Byron Maxwell.” Taking Kelly at his word is not popular, but I think it goes a long way toward explaining his decisions. DJAX’s salary was elite receiver money, and his red zone play was a liability. Folks like to believe that it was culture, character, personality, mouth, haircut, RACE…but before any of that it was an issue of dollars and sense.
If McCoy’s compensation was closer to a league RB average, Kelly would most likely not have been able to swing the deal he made with Buffalo, but he wouldn’t have needed to because McCoy’s cap hit would have afforded more room to deal elsewhere. My guess is that Kelly would have found an RB in FA even if he hadn’t shopped McCoy, and McCoy would have become the change of pace back. How long would Shady sit still and buy in on that arrangement?
It seems to me that the one thing that repeatedly gives the racism issue legs is Cooper. I am assuming, but I don’t know this for sure, that Howie negotiated Cooper’s contract terms. That, in itself , does not eliminate a negative reading of Cooper’s presence on the team, but that combined with Kelly’s insistence that his receivers block, and the surprisingly successful numbers that Cooper put up with Nick Foles in 2013 do suggest that replacing Cooper may have been more expensive than keeping him.
If there is anything untoward going on in Chip Kelly’s mind or in his locker room, it doesn’t refer to a four-letter word. It is all about CAP.
nicely done
Racism, like sexism is complicated because while there are 100’s corners to draw a line in the sand and fight on it boils down to 2 general concepts. Part 1 is Biological racism/sexism. The concept biologically Other races (and women) are inherently inferior used to be the big one. So the racist were big on racial purity and making sure there’s no mixing. And the activists were eager to show they could do anything a white man can do.
Part 2 is cultural racism/sexism and this is much trickier. In it’s simplest form is that there is a cultural identity to gender and race and *that* is inferior. So yes black people are fine as long as they don’t act black. And women can be strong as long as they don’t act girly. These sentiments are absolutely loaded with points that activists have spent careers on fighting single aspects of. The idea that you have to wash your hands clean of these cultural identities to get anywhere in life, that you have to prove yourself otherwise before you get your equality. This is often referred to as subscribing to the culture of power.
Part 2 is a tremendous issue in America today. And when you build a football program on a very specific culture constructed by a white man it becomes an easy target. All of us here recognize that this is a culture, pro to a very specific thing, and con everything else, not a specific cultural identity. Everyone has to adopt the new culture when they get here, no one comes in with it. It’s not a culture inherently present or absent in any race.
You lost your argument as soon as you used the term “act black”. Snoop Dogg, millionaire drug user advocating hatred, rape, drug use, slavery is black, but Louis Gates Jr., Harvard professor, researcher, humorist is not black? Or is he? The term itself is idiotic. It also doesn’t include women at all, by the way. ‘Act black” really has no meaning at all, except perhaps for the self-segregating types. I wonder what the term would mean in Angola?
I wasn’t making that argument, just giving an example. And as I said in the next sentence it’s absolutely loaded with things to fight. Like an assumption that there is some homogeneous “black culture” that is some default upbringing. Even if there were, the straw man that is held up is cross sectioned with poverty laziness and criminality. So on one level it’s racit to imagine a homogeneous “black culture”. On a second level that machination has been hijacked and run through the mud is racist, and the idea that this culture is inferior to the culture of power is racist.
What exactly is “acting black”? Do all black people act a certain way? Does DJax act black, while say someone like Demarco Murray acts what? White? How do white people act?
I think Chip is looking for selfless, intelligent, articulate, gentlemen that have good moral character, and can conduct themselves in a professional way on and off the field.
Ark87 was describing a racist view, not subscribing to it.
In terms of Nolan Carrol, wasn’t that in response to a direct question about how Carrol has improved over the offseason? If it was in response to a direct question, it sort of loses its noteworthyness.
The Cory Undlin Magic?
That was a follow up. Kelly mentioned Carroll on his own.
Wasn’t Tebows sun-dial windup supposed to be part of his 3 year long odyssey to rebuild his mechanics? If we needed extra camp arms we could have signed any old shmuck or UDFA qb. I can understand the Bradford signing even if I’m skeptical that he’s going to be the guy that gets us the lombardi but Tebow makes 0 sense to me at all.
Tebow’s biggest problem was his funky side way release that made him very inaccurate on shorter throws.
I think the slow release time is a function of him thinking too much right now and as scary as it might sound, I think Tebow beats out Barkley.
Is he pulling our leg?
CK choses his words carefully. “He is wrong” – that’s a strong statement for Shady. CK, I think he said something in the past, that he doesn’t follow the injured players. When they are healthy, they get sent his way. To me, and it could be just slow times and reaching, he seemed a bit agitated about this injury. Would love to be a fly on the wall when CK gets these injury reports…
“he seemed a bit agitated about this injury”
Oh, listening to the press conference, I had no doubt of this. CK is far more emotional than he lets on, and his feelings will bleed into his responses. He can’t quite sugarcoat for a player during a press conference that he isn’t happy with.
I get this impression a lot too. Chip seemed very annoyed with Wolff back in 2013 when the doctors cleared him to play and he refused. Chip seemed to make some sideways comments towards Kendricks taking 4 weeks to come back from a calf strain last year. And, he seemed agitated by MS2 sitting out. I might be completely off base. He might just be annoyed with the questions from reporters. But, he seems to go out of his way to bring up players sitting out with non-season-ending injuries in a less than enthused tone. He seems to have little concern or patience for “the walking wounded” as I’ve heard them called on many a football team.
I agree. I think Chip is old school when it comes to some injuries. He will assume a player is soft if the recovery takes longer than expected. I have no opinion one way or the other if he is right.
Bleacher Report blog post from 2009 comparing Tebow’s release to Bradford’s
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/157543-tim-tebows-slow-release
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2471995-this-is-the-quarterback-era-but-is-another-defensive-era-coming-to-the-nfl
The last table is scary. In 3 years it might simply be Luck versus Rodgers.
No wonder Kelly traded for Bradford.
That wouldn’t be the end of the world as long as the QB position doesn’t devolve into 32 different run around idiots manning the position. I couldn’t watch that.
I doubt it happens, but shows that we have been super spoiled in terms of great QB play the last 5-10 years and unless guys like Tannenhill, Newton, Bradford, Stafford, Winston etc. take big leaps, there will be Rodgers+Luck and everybody else
Definitely a dearth of starting quality QBs. But, you have to imagine at least 1 of the guys drafted in this year and the next 3 will show some elite skill. Plus, any number of guys like Cam Newton, Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Bradford, Derrick Carr, Matt Stafford, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles could conceivably take the necessary step forward to enter the discussion as top QBs. If 2 of those 8 work out, and 1 rookie enters the discussion a league of 5 elite performers, a half dozen to 10 adequate signal callers and a bunch of dreck won’t be far off from the historical averages.
But, all that being said. There’s not a lot of promise in the league right now and seemingly fewer and fewer promising players coming out of college on the horizon. It truly is no wonder that we’d trade for Bradford since he’s the last elite prospect to come out with the pedigree to be expected to be among the elites and who was also even a possibility to obtain.
How is Marcus Smith hurt? He never played.
Was he the one reported as bulked up? Maybe he hurt himself working out. Or maybe Wolfe is his idol?
Maybe the needle poked a nerve?
Ooh.
He said a leg pull. Hopefully it’s lower leg. If it’s a quad or hamstring, I’m thinking that’s a nagging injury that will bug him for the year.
If he struggles to participate in the off season it will be fairly devastating to his development. I don’t know that there’s any player that needs it more (/has more to gain from it) than him.
Let’s hope he’s ready to run at the next round of OTAs. I’m glad Acho is getting work outside, so I’m hoping he gets to stick with the team somehow. Might be a blessing in disguise.
Heard it was a groin pull. Probably minor. Just sitting out cause its OTAs and no reason to aggravate it at this point.
Hard to put on 15# of muscle in a couple of months and not lose flexibility. Plus you have to be off roids by this time of the year.
Groin pull.
Pretty easy to do during any of the weightlifting, cardio, plyometrics they do.
It’s not a big deal. If it was camp I would imagine he would be a full go. No need to be a tough guy about it and exacerbate the injury during OTAs.
3 weeks ago for Thurmond means right after the draft. So they DID have safeties targeted even though they didn’t end up drafting any.
I think the team has clearly made an effort to go into the draft with no “needs”. BPA may be modified by position need, but they don’t know what they will pick up going into the draft.
Maybe they were thinking jones as S if nelson a was gone but I don’t think this staff counts on rookie contributor and WT could be the contingency plan.
6’1″ Nolan Carroll’s salary last year had guaranteed money with a roster bonus, but this year it goes up to 2.9M with no guarantee or bonus, so it doesn’t make sense to keep him and not use him. Obviously he won’t get that chunk of change if he’s on the waiver wire in August, so he has a lot of incentive to play well, as well as cashing in after a walk year in free agency if he plays well as a starter. Boykin, on the other hand, has a salary spike this year with little dead money if traded, and of course he’s not as tall as Carroll, so they will either get a pick for him with the Short People Randy Newman song playing for the cap room or keep him in the slot another year with no better options.
Barbre LG Tobin RG = Head games all around, ‘flexibiity’ for Barbre. A message to Mathis and Rosenhaus, who gets paid when a new contract is signed as with TO, that they can move on, and to Barbre, Tobin, D. Kelly, etc. that it’s a competition at RG which ends only when someone plays consistently in games.
I’m just waiting for Darren Sproles to do an “I’m here aren’t I” when the short people get organized and make the case against Coach Kelly and his Randy Newman mp3s. I’m only an inch taller than Boykin “First they came for Boykin, and I did not speak out -“
So, hypothetically speaking, you are Nolan’s agent and he gets cut. Would you rather try to explain to future employers how he came into OTAs as the perspective starter and ended up on the streets, or would it be easier to explain rookies and free agents repeatedly leap-frogging him on the depth chart before they even play?
I assume Nolan will start on THE outside in september, while Rowe Learns On the Bench..Nolan ismt getting cut because even if Rowe can beat him and Nolan has to go to the bench, his special team ability would keep him on the roster
That’s the thing about CK that I like. People have to earn their spots, nothing is given due to age or draft position.
You mean we won’t see a 4th round rookie LB given the MLB spot with this regime?
LOL. That was a disaster.
Depends…what were the conversations around his dinner table growing up. This is an important factor to consider, or so I recall…
“Remember that last year Mark Sanchez looked awful in the spring, but was much better by the summer and then posted solid numbers during the season.” Remember when Tebow took off a year or so and worked with a QB guru? All that worked resulted in an 8 second(estimated) release? Ouch. Call me crazy but Barkley might actually be laughing…
Not that I want to be defending Tebow this early in the day, but I’m sure his head is swimming trying to execute the plays correctly.
good point, not only a new offense, but he’s been out of football, much more so than a guy on IR. He probably should have joined the CFL just to stay in the game.
I agree, it’s way too early — however, that long ‘working’ on mechanics, the ball should be release sooner. That has nothing to do with new plays or new scheme. It would be different if he was getting rid of the ball quick and missing the wr’s or throwing to the wrong spot. This is all mechanics…
Holding onto the ball is scheme comfort and decision making (find the open man and pull the trigger). Release is how long your throw motion takes. The mechanics of his throwing motion is what he worked on. He doesn’t have an 8 second release.
A quote from the article: “Tebow’s windup takes a lifetime.”
ah, an artful exaggeration by Kempski. I misread it. Yeah that’s a bad sign then. Still hopefully it ends up looking better with a closer look (the reporters couldn’t make out much since practice was being held on the far field).
8 seconds is the “Kempski clock”. He’s being hyperbolic.
Kiko allegedly looks good, running around all over the place, No brace on his knee….
..
Wolff has been cleared by doctor James Andrews, yet he still isn’t practicing.. wolff better look around and take notice of all the DB talent. If he doesn’t get and stay on the field he can find himself on the waiver wire looking for a job in August… And Thurmond is no slouch, he is a definite threat to take that starting Saftey spot..If wolff doesn’t get on the field soon, he won’t make the roster
No doubt he is the very first name that comes to mind when 1st cuts come up in August but it’s still roughly two months before camp starts. Hopefully he is out there at full speed by that time.
Kiko! Kiko! Kiko! — can’t wait to see him play…
KIKO! KIKO! KIKO! I’ll co sigń that….
The fact he’s able to run around without a brace is a very good thing. He’s going through all the motions now, and come TC he’ll be ready for contact.
Agree about Wolff. CK said, “He’s (Thurmond) always around the ball.” I can’t speak to his physicalness, but that’s a damning quote for this offseason. I’m thinking unless someone really steps up in TC, the other S spot is Thurmond’s to lose.
What do you base your “Thurmond is no slouch” statement on?
The Giants fans I’ve spoken to think he is, in fact, a slouch.
“Take notice of all the DB talent” is a laughable statement. You are definitely enjoying the green skies of Homerville when you conclude that the lack of a clear favorite for two starting DB positions is because the Eagles have so much DB talent they just can’t choose.
There is no clear favorite for two starting DB positions because the Eagles let 3 starters go, only replaced 1 of them and must now fill those positions from a pool of players who have never been good enough in the past.
youre ignoring the youth at the position. You know, the thing everyone watches the draft for, upside. Its not all “players that have never been good enough”. Rowe was drafted pretty high if I recall. Sure rookie walls and transitions are tough to count on but it wont be the first time. As a fan you can handle getting burned by mental mistakes here or there. Much harder seeing guys get burned on same plays over and over. Also, this lack of quality can be attributed to Davis, lets not forget that. Hes the one with the most to prove if you ask me.
Actually taking the time to watch his technique,,, you should try it instead of just reading a few stats and going the blowhard route… But To each hs own…,
why? its the first week of getting out there and DBs can barely do anything anyway. After his issue, youd think being a tad cautious coming back would make sense. Fans jumping to the same BS toughness card again. Talk to me in camp if were seeing the same thing, then Ill buy it or care. Just too early for me to even go there.
Interesting move with Thurmond. Hopefully it works out with him at Safety because he won’t be getting any reps at corner, so it will be harder to move him back there. And since he is one of our better corners, we’ll be losing some depth.
Lets hope theres not too many swollen knees this morning!
hopefully that isn’t how most of our acquisitions passed the 18-inch knee circumference test.
Wolff is a longshot now. Doesn’t matter whether a misdiagnosis screwed him over. The NFL wants players who find a way to get on the field. Wolff will have to clearly outperform everyone else to win the job, and I don’t think he is in position to do that.
On one hand, I see your point.
On the other hand “clearly outperform everyone else” isn’t really a monumental task when none of the players he is competing with have ever demonstrated they can be a capable starter at the position.
True, but the list of those who have not demonstrated they can be a capable starter includes him. Plenty of solid safeties have made the switch from other positions, there are reasonable candidates who are getting their first real shot.
There are backup spots too. He needs to be one of the top four safeties to make the team, probably. I am assuming they keep Maragos as a 5th “safety” due to STs. If he or Proskinski actually play well at safety, enough to be a regular backup, then maybe there are fewer safety spots on the roster. It looks more like Wolff is a longshot as a starter, but he could easily earn a roster spot.
Right. As long as he can contribute on ST and stay healthy.
its the first week of non contact practice for fs. Why do fans think this is where all the hard work and magic of taking their skill to another level happens. Short sighted much
Think you responded to the wrong post, or may not have read things through.
no, hes recovering and will still be in the mix to start quite possibly.
Not sure how hes a long shot or why everyones questioning him this
early in the process is all. Seems to be a lot of this today is all
Nothing to do with talent or potential or the time of year. Fair or not, he has repeatedly missed practice and games due to nagging injuries his whole career. The NFL does not have a high tolerance level for guys with a low pain tolerance level. Thus, the bar is higher for him than it might otherwise be.
Right and that goes for most young players so they risk their bodies to be out there at all costs. I have to think the coaching staff, while very frustrated last season as evidenced by CK quotes, has to re-evaluate their belief in the guy after now knowing that it was a micro fracture issue. He wasnt just being soft, he had a real concern that they just didnt know about. At this point it would be dumb if they didnt give him a real shot or a good luck and still continued down the path of not trusting him.
Also, as I mentioned in other posts, if this is an issue come camp Ill be right there with everyone else giving up on the guy. Just not going to take much out of May OTAs.
I can definitely agree that if this goes away in camp then Wolff is in good shape. But blithely ignoring it just because we are in OTA’s is missing the bigger picture, which Jernst elaborated on quite well.
I think you are confused about what a microfracture actually is. I’m not quite sure what a microfracture issue is. Microfracture is a technique used in knee surgeries to stimulate articular cartilage regrowth. It can be used to fix devastating, debilitating problems with the knee or it can be used to fix relatively minor non-issues. There isn’t one issue that is considered microfracture worthy, that is therefore by definition a terrible problem. Microfracture is a tool to fix a problem. That problem can be big or small.
Just like a hammer is a tool that you can use to place a small nail in drywall or demolish an entire room as with a sledge hammer. Same tool, two different issues. Saying something is a hammer issue tells you nothing about the size of the nail or type of job at hand.
You’ve most likely seen quite a few athletes never return from microfracture surgery and therefore associate that with serious, career ending injuries. The mistake you’re making is just not realizing that in the vast majority of those cases, microfracture was being used as a last ditch effort to try and fix a debilitating knee situation. This was not at all the case with Earl Wollf, if you read what both he and Dr James Andrews said about the procedure.
This. Regardless of whether we think it’s fair or not, Earl Wolff has developed a reputation as a player that won’t play through injury or pain. Pain, that regardless of whether it’s real or not, injured or not, or significant or not, is something all the teams doctors agreed he could play through.
In the NFL, there is not a single starter in the league that makes it through the season without injuring something. They are in pain all over the place by the end of the year. So, if you are not willing to play through pain and injury, that while real, isn’t debilitating or season ending, coaches are going to lose patience with you.
Could anyone ever imagine Brian Dawkins choosing to sit out a playoff game that he was medically cleared to play in. They’d have to strap him down in the locker room and sedate that maniac if there was any chance for him to play for him to not be out there.
Runyan played with a broken tail bone for most a season and could barely walk off the field for half a year, Herremans played with a torn biceps, Westbrook and Trotter played half their careers without cartilage in their knees, Kelce and McNabb both played through sports hernias in their careers, hell even TO played on a relatively freshly broken ankle. McNabb played most of an entire game with an ankle he broke in the first half. Everyone who plays this sport plays through injuries, plays through pain.
I have no inside knowledge on Wolff’s injury. From what I heard it was a small nonhealing lesion on his knee bone/cartilage that wasn’t even picked up on the initial MRI and was found only on a second scan.
Even after that second scan, the doctors all agreed that he wouldn’t risk any further injury if he played on it, that it would just hurt and that he could either rest during the off season to see if it healed or opt for a microfracture where they make a small hole in the bone to try and stimulate healing, to get it to heal so the pain would stop. But, there was nothing ligamentous, functionally or structurally that was wrong with his knee.
Yet, when his team needed him most, in a do or die play off game and all the doctors agreed he could play at close to full strength, he politely told the coaches, “no thanks, I’m not feeling 100% and I’d rather not play.” I can see why Chip would be concerned that a rookie 5th round pick with the opportunity to play in a playoff game would choose to not play through pain.
He came back last year after giving it a full off season to heal. By all indications the coaching staff was desperately hoping that he’d step up and take hold of this opportunity and win the starting job. However, he again was constantly sitting out despite being given a full go by all the teams doctors and given every opportunity to win a starting job on a playoff team in the NFL. He finally opted for season ending surgery due to his inability to play with the pain in his knee.
Now he’s cleared by the most renowned orthopedic surgeon in the world to play and is again choosing to sit out and take his time getting back to full strength, despite the starting job being as open as ever for him to take control of.
Sure, it might all be blown out of proportion, and I have no idea what he’s actually going through, maybe he’s the toughest guy on earth and the pain is just simply excruciating and all the doctors are wrong. I don’t know. But, I do know that Chip listens to the doctors regarding injuries, and he can’t be thrilled with this pattern of behavior that seems to indicate that Wolff doesn’t have the drive or determination to play as hard as he can unless he’s pain free.
he had a micro fracture injury, would have ended his career probably had he tried to play. At his point after surgery, why risk anything if he doesnt feel right for May OTAs. THAT makes no sense. CK was probably just answering the question when asked and mentioned he was cleared. Now everyones jumping on him being soft again, I find that unreasonable. Im right there with you if it continues, just cant make much of it at this stage. Id be really surprised if the staff still wants to hurry him out. Maybe its something else we dont know about, like film study, work ethic, attitude etc if its still an issue. It shouldnt be if not, its his body, his loss if he ruins his career because of it.However, if he ends up playing through camp, improving and winning the spot then what. None of you will say a word about this nonsense
You’re confusing the microfracture procedure with surgeries you’ve heard about that involved extensive microfracture or a microfracture done in conjunction with an ACL repair at the same time. Those can be devastating, and while it’s the same procedure, by name, that Earl received, he should not be held to the same prognosis as these much more extensive surgeries.
Some background…there’s two types of cartilage in your knee. There’s a medial and lateral meniscus; these are thick C-shaped cushions that sit between the two bones of your knee and cushion the two bones as they jar against each other. There’s another kind of cartilage called articular cartilage that is a thin clear almost microscopic layer of tissue that covers any two bones that glide over each other. This stuff allows the bones to glide smoothly and painlessly over one another. When you get arthritis it is this cartilage that starts to wear down. The underlying bone starts to get exposed and the friction ends up causing inflammation and pain.
Earl experienced a small lesion in this cartilage which is neither career threatening or unexpected for anyone that plays a contact sport for a living. Besides pain, the only thing that this would have predisposed him to is arthritis in his knee, which should be a given for a professional football player at this point.
Chronic break down and wearing out of articular cartilage does not heal. However, acute traumatic or surgical injury to it can heal if it is done in a specific way. Microfracture surgery is a procedure where they make tiny incisions in the knee, insert a scope and make small microscopic fractures into the bone where the articular cartilage is worn off. The bone bleeds, and this blood that is ripe with bone marrow stem cells, stimulates new cartilage and scar tissue to form over the previously exposed area. The new cartilage is fibrous and not of as good quality as the old stuff, and inevitably wears down again, but if it heals properly, can offer a good amount of pain relief.
Recovery for this surgery is relatively painless, and often much shorter than most other knee surgeries. The hardest part is staying off the knee completely for 6-8 weeks to allow the stem cells to set up and heal properly. There’s little pain and most athletes can return to full function in 3-4 months.
Earl apparently underwent a mini-microfracture, which is considerably less extensive than your typical microfracture, because he had such a small lesion that it was hardly able to be picked up on MRI. Dr. Andrews saw the lesion only when he was already inside the knee and decided to make the small single microfracture at that site to try and get Earl some relief.
The injury itself was not at all career threatening, just persistently painful and full return from something that was this small carries a very high likelihood. The low success rate of large extensive microfractures that you’ve seen other athletes not come back from is not totally applicable. Most of those players are also older players with extensive arthritis of the knee, that does not take well to large multiple microfractures who were towards the end of their playing days anyway, and months of staying off their leg without the strenuous rehab allowed by other surgeries clouds the picture.
If the procedure is done to assist an ACL tear, like you saw with Brandon Graham, the recovery from ACL reconstruction is probably as much as 40-50% less likely to be successful. Adding the two surgeries together, to help the graft attach to the bone and stimulate healing, is usually done when the damage is extensive or the graft won’t take.
These types are pretty much last ditch efforts and often don’t work. Putting a small hole in the cartilage to help a small, less than a cm, area of wear down heal when it’s causing pain, is rarely if ever career threatening.
That being said, he’s probably doing the best thing for his body, the more time he rests it the better it’ll be. There’s been studies in the orthopedic literature that actually show that it’s paradoxically the lazier athlete who rehabs less with this procedure that ends up with the better outcome than the guy who rehabs like a mad man.
And, you’re right it’s his life, and his body, I’m not judging him at all. But, I think Chip might be. I think he’s seen plenty of players (think Westbrook, who for years had much more severe problems with his knee cartilage than Wolff, and kept playing), deal with much more serious problems. I hope he comes back and plays strong. But, I have a feeling that the microfracture cartilage will wear out in a year or two as it often does and we’ll be back to square one though with him where he won’t play through the knee pain.
@ Tommy
From Sheil. http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2015/05/28/running-diary-eagles-practice-observations-23/
So there is indeed nothing to see here.
I realize that Tommy and many of the commenters here are eternal optimists, but the current faith in the Eagles DB situation is taking homerism to the extreme.
The Eagles lost three starters in their defensive backfield. They replaced those three guys with one premier free agent, but he can’t play 3 positions. To fill those other 2 starting positions they are choosing from a group of stiffs so unaccomplished that there aren’t even clear favorites to win the job.
I guess it’s ok at this time of the year to think that the Eagles are going to fish in a pile of garbage and come up with two gems, but my past experience as a fan leads me to believe that this kind of faith is usually destroyed once the actual games begin.
I’m fairly optimistic, and I never have watched the Simpsons.
My favorite Homerism: “Operator, quick, what’s the number for 911?”
I guess the excitement lies more in the fact that we don’t have williams, fletcher and allen anymore rather than we have added elite talent. If you need a small reminder 😉
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7E3GGJJO6k
what? your acting like what they are replacing was quality to begin with, thats laughable. Upgrade to one side, then youth at the other or a vet like Carroll. I guess I can sort of see that being a downgrade, but you hope a new secondary coach can help elevate it which isnt unthinkable.
I think the upgrade over Carey Williams is overstated and won’t be surprised at all if by the end of the season they aren’t calling this player swap a win for the Seahawks.
Nate Allen was not well liked by the fans, but I seriously doubt there is a safety on the current roster who will perform to Allen’s level this season.
I think theres a player that can absolutely do better than Allen but I can kind of agree on the Cary W front. He seemed to get more grief than most but a lot of it was also bad safety play imo
If Thurmond understands and comprehends the very notion that a QB is allowed to fake a hand off and then attempt a forward pass in this league, he will at least, have that over Nate Allen, who suffered from a severe case of ocular blindness to play action passes.
Let’s give our new DB coach a chance to show what he can do…he did a great jo with Denver lastt year and Jenkins loves him…
What’s the expectation? If it’s that the unit will be a strength, skepticism is more than fair. If it’s that the unit will outplay last year’s version, there’s plenty of reason for optimism, especially if Carroll steps up.
We went from: under cooked chicken, burnt potatoes, roasted asparagus, and a glass of water… to: medium rare steak, “hopefully” edible potatoes, roasted asparagus, and an unknown but “hopefully” more inspiring beverage.
The leap from straight trash or “meh” to functional starter is very important, and while you are allowed to doubt Rowe’s ability to start at corner as a rookie or doubt that Carroll will be functional, it isn’t “wrong” to think that maybe one of them can step up and play well.
A healthy Wolff, even if out of place, has the speed to track people down and make tackles… and while that’s not an exciting upgrade, it is an improvement, and again with the other guys competing for that spot… someone is going to get the opportunity to make plays (or at least make some stops).
ya the bar was so low it feel like it can only go up right, even if minimally. Thats not homerism
RE: it isn’t “wrong” to think that maybe one of them can step up and play well.
I’d say that yes it is wrong. It’s not wrong to hope that one of them steps up and play well. There’s nothing wrong with hope.
But to “think” that the Eagles are going to find two competent starters for their defensive backfield when they currently don’t have any leading candidates for those spots is wrong. More often than not in the NFL, the “throw a bunch of shit on the wall and see what sticks” method is not a successful team building technique
Boykin was injured last year in camp and never recovered. He’s still there. That’s 3 of 5. I wouldn’t say that Rowe is hot garbage since he’s a rookie, but he may show up in TC and take the job. Carroll also hampered by injury, but he played well in Miami.
This isn’t like were going into camp with Williams/Fletcher as the starters and Carmichael and Marsh as your depth and know that we are going to be bad. This is a much more talented unit that we’ve ever had going into camp with CK.
Maybe some people are overly optimistic about this being a Legion of Boom, but it isn’t nearly as bad as you make it out to be.
You may not have seen this -but Rowe missed a day of OTC because of a league seminar and now he’ll be a total bust.
Why is Nolan Carroll, the guy who could not beat out 2014 Bradley Fletcher, suddenly considered an upgrade?
Because he was injured last season coming out of TC. He looked great in TC, then got injured and never recovered. There was a thought he was going to replace one of the starters by his play.
Sure there were many thoughts he would replace Fletcher: thoughts from the fans. The coaches saw it differently and, week after week, as bad as Fletcher was, they said to themselves, “well he’s still not as bad as Nolan Carroll”
Or they knew he wasn’t ready to go full and waited a year to part with Fletcher to let him heal. If he’s worse than Fletcher, why did they keep him and not Fletcher? You’re reasoning doesn’t follow the conclusion to it’s end.
If Riley Cooper was not as good as DeSean Jackson why did they keep him instead?
If Chris Polk was not as good as LeSean McCoy why did they keep him instead?
etc etc etc
Chris Polk isn’t on the team. DJax was let go because of other issues, but the offense was fine. So obviously something worked out.
We aren’t discussing the outcome of those releases. I was pointing out that your reasoning that Chip Kelly would not release players if he did not already have better players on the roster to take their place is demonstrably false.
It’s practically a pattern.
Whether or not it works out in this case remains to be seen.
That’s the entire argument is whether or not it works out. What we perceive to be a more talented player may not fit in the system, but the end result is all that matters.
Nate Allen and Bradley Fletcher were not let go because of locker room issues. They were let go because they felt they could replace them with what they had.
Same with Cole. Perception is that he’s better than BG, and he may be. But they felt that BG could step up and give them what Cole didn’t.
He doesn’t just get rid of good players to get rid of them, a pattern like that would lead to losing. I don’t know they felt DJax was the better receiver. CK talks a lot about what WR do without the ball. Blocking, running through routes even though the rock isn’t coming to them, and being versatile. DJax doesn’t provide any of that.
They tried to keep Mac, but he got a way better offer (and out of a reasonable price range). They didn’t just get rid of him because they thought he was good.
There is a pattern, but not the one you are projecting. There’s a culture and type of player he wants, and Djax didn’t fit it. Mac was overpaid, and Allen/Williams aren’t that good.
I disagree that Carey Williams was not let go because of personality issues.
He definitely was, but he wasn’t that good either.
By the end of the year — when they needed a Fletcher replacement most — Carroll was already tasked with playing in the slot, and shoring up safety and really even linebackers. Losing Demeco really hurt due to the domino effect, which is probably why Kelly was so intent on shoring up the ILB position this year. Casey Matthews apparently could get the right play calls in, but needed a lot of help on the actual football part. I don’t think Carroll got a decent shot at the starter job on the outside. But yes, he’s still a maybe. We at least have a lot of “maybes”, so while some of those will end up “no” you have to think a couple will be fine. It may not be a fearsome secondary, but getting to at least average would be nice.
Carrol came in as a starter at the very end of the season after half the fanbase was calling for him for weeks, and he looked horrible.
on another note, I think theres too much homerism at the QB position. My skepticism is still all there while I think the D will be much improved. Then again, Billy D stinks imo so theres that
You are correct there. Every prediction about the Eagles this season should start with a very long “If Sam Bradford…” disclaimer.
But at least with Bradford there are as many concrete reasons on which to base optimism as there are reasons for pessimism.
The optimism about the secondary seems based on nothing more than “we’ve got a lot of guys, two of them have to turn out to be at least decent, right? … right?”
I cant really argue with that, I guess youth and depth with Thurmond, Carroll, Boykin (one can hope) make it feel promising more than realistic maybe. At some point you hope your youth steps up. Anyone buying Reynolds stock, he will be interesting to watch
We don’t know how they’re going to turn out but they drafted a couple of guys who look like they could be really good. That’s a little more than just throwing poop at the wall & expecting some of it to stick.
ya, buying Fletcher/CW for a second year and bringing back Allen was throwing poop at the wall when you already saw the weaknesses.
A Skeptic thinks the glass might be half full, a cynic is pretty sure the glass is only half full, and a pessimist knows that the glass, even if it is half full, contains poison anyway.
yes, and only a fool would wager with a Sicilian when death is on the line…
Im just curious how you grade out Fletcher?
Don’t encourage him,…
That look on Kellys face when a reporter asked him what lead to the other changes in the strenght and conditioning staff – when there weren’t any.
http://fs1.directupload.net/images/150529/7hwq24gg.gif
It’s important to ask questions like that to capture Kelly’s facial ticks.
That way, if we see this reaction again in response to, say, a referee’s call, we’ll know — no matter what his words — Kelly is really saying:
“What the f**k are you talking about, you moron?!”
caption the photo:
“we need TWO safeties and cornerbacks?”
that’s the look on my X’s face when I tried to explain the “missing 48 hours” of our eventually failed relationship…
No offense, mate, but I don’t know if I don’t get the joke or if it is tmi. Could totally be my fault, though.
I guess the wind up wasn’t covered with the QB whisperer.
Well, he’s also a pitching coach, so maybe he was confused?
I guarantee that I will have pizza tonight.
I guess guaranteeing the Super Bowl isn’t quite as bad as “dream team” comments but I’d just as soon not stir up that kind of stuff at this point.
Have a sausage. I just watched a very good film called “Into The White” about 1941 Norway where Brits and Germans were conducting air battles to protect / take Norwegian iron ore reserves. One plane from each side shot the other down in frigid cold blizzarding mountains. The story centered on how 2 surviving Brits and 3 surviving Germans would fare in desolate, treacherous conditions. The mundane differences between the two sides were overshadowed by the material threats to all of their lives by climate and geography. But when the two groups first encountered each other, they all holed up in a hunting cabin, and the the predictable stereotypes were all invoked. Smith was the surviving British gunner. A celtic looking, red-haired, short Geordie, he has been instructed by his Captain to provoke them, get under their skin. Strunk was a big, stoic German who was very quiet. Smith inquires of Strunk, “Hey Skunk, is it true that you Krauts only eat sausage?”
This mini-review is my attempt to eschew obsessing. The angst-ridden anticipating and the continual ruminating over Eagles minutiae drives me to seek alternatives. “Into The White” was awarded 5 stars on Netflix.
Do you write cliff notes for a living? Look into it.
wait, then what happened?
Taylor Hart is 305 lbs, up from his listed 281 last year.
Obviously on my poi and Heineken diet…
or the Lane Johnson diet, or are those jokes old hack now
depends on what those 24 pounds look like
He’s 6’5. Even if it was bad weight it wouldnt be terribly noticeable.
Visibly or performance-wise? Either way to the naked eye we wouldn’t be able to really tell. I get the feeling the Mr. Hulz can tell though 😀
Visibily. (And even performance wise most big guys end the season 10-15lbs heavier than day 1 of camp)
In spandex, you could probably tell.
If he was in a T-shirt and jeans, you saw him last August, and then bumped into him today, you probably wouldn’t be able to tell a significant difference.
eww poi…why?
Here’s another way to look at the DBs:
If the Eagles kept both Nate Allen and Bradley Fletcher, they would both be starting for this team in 2015.
Based on what?
based on after Jenkins and Maxwell we have nobody on the roster better than they are/were
Based on what? They could have kept both, but chose not to. You have to explain that, before saying that no one else is better. If those two were better players, CK would have kept them. It’s his team and if he thought they were better, they never would have left in FA.
That statement really has no basis in reality. One of the defining aspects of Kelly’s tenure so far is the willingness to discard starters with no replacements to take their place. Just because he eventually replaced guys like Shady, DeSean and Maclin doesn’t mean he had legitimate substitutes on the roster when the releases happened.
Sure. He had the #5 offense in the league after getting rid of DeSean – that’s with a battered offensive line and no QB. I guess Demarco Murray and Ryan Mathews aren’t legitimate replacements? We don’t know about the WR position yet, but considering CK’s success with the offense last year, I’m not betting against him.
And to think you are implicitly putting Cary Williams and Nate Allen in the same sentence as Shady/DJax/Maclin is insulting. If you don’t think the replacements are legitmate – that’s fine. But to consider the former two as quality starters is absurd.
So no, the one not in reality is you. You haven’t made a case that the ones he replaced weren’t replaced by legitimate starters, or that the secondary isn’t going to be better. 2 of 4 is more than 1 of 4. Based on that, the secondary is better.
Which safety(s) are better than Nate Allen?
I think Thurmond is easily and upgrade. He played nickel in Seattle and can play the middle of the field very well.
I’m projecting like other defensive players, Watkins and Wolff take a step forward this year in the system. Wolff’s problem is he can’t stay healthy. I’m interested to see how Watkins pans out. Even after two years in this system, the light never came on for Allen.
Thurmond is a bad cornerback.
Like much of the reasoning being used to talk up the secondary situation, the idea that a bad cornerback can step in and be a good safety seems based on nothing more than wishing it might be true.
still no one wants to believe in Boykin. He can do it folks, I believe he has the athleticism. If he really gets a shot remains to be see because….”measurables”
No one believes he is getting a shot.
probably right. I have faith in Rowe getting the spot over Carroll. He might make rookie mistakes but Ill take that as long as its mixed in with flashes of ability.
I have faith that nolan is a much better corner then you are giving him credit for
maybe but why wasnt he playing last season then. Or is that more a Billy Davis issue. Hope youre right, then we have a decent player with a rookie learning waiting, works for me
Boykin can be one of the very best nickel corners In the League which is damn important In TODAYS game.. He is very valuable to us as a Nickel, no clue why people care so much about moving him outside, when he is as good of a slot corner as we could ask for
true, and we thought Thurmond might play that spot or even Jaylen but now both are in the safety mix so BB can stay in the slot. I also want to see the other two drafted CBs, see how that plays out
Ok now you fully lost me.
He is actually not a bad cornerback, he has just been hampered by injuries. You have nothing to back up that statement and reading your previous comments you have already lost all validity in any argument.
He’s a sixth year player who has started 9 games his entire career and has signed one year deals in each of the last two offeasons.
yeah, he’s great.
Allen is an NFL starter at safety. He isn’t a great one but he will remain one. Probably for the entirety of his career. The same can not be said for anyone up to take his spot. Do I think Thurmond could be better? Heck yes. I think there are probably 3-4 guys who could be better. As of right now though, I think a reasonable person has to feel like we at least temporarily downgraded there.
Could Thurmond be a beast after TC? Sure! I am hoping for it. Can’t expect it.
I disagree that Fletcher would be starting. Allen yes, which is one of the reasons I wanted him back yet again.
anyone but Allen yikes. No, anyone, youth, anyone, anything
Yeah you are one of those kinda guys Im talking about in a post above. Can’t get past his wide-9 run first assignment days. Not that I think he is by any means *good*. I do place him at a C+ to C- range depending on the day. Take it from me Cs get degrees.
Wide 9? did you see tape last year. Hes below average period
Allen had to go. I liked his class and his approach to his job, but he had too many plays where his pass defending was on par with a fencepost. Some, maybe much of that was being put in a bad position by his coaches/DC, but he clearly has been a more tentative reactor to play design than he was as a rookie. I think his patella tear made him a little gunshy
Edit: I am genuinely happy for Allen. He got a nice payday courtesy of Reggie McKenzie.
Great analysis of Allen. He looked like a great centerfielder his first year. Since then, he seemed to just slowly back peddle into the deep center and wait for the ball to be released before making any move. And, that was only when he wasn’t biting on play fakes like he had never seen one before.
He rarely shadowed to one side that had the other teams best receiving option and never seemed to adjust and offer help to Fletcher when he was getting burned. I remember Dawkins being dumbfounded, by how he never adjusted to the game situation. He said, regardless of the calls you have to adjust your depth and anticipation to play within the scheme and cover certain things you know are coming, and Allen just never did that. He dropped the same way and to the same depth like a robot every play and reacted after the fact.
Allen never seemed to anticipate anything. Even worse he never seemed to learn that QBs were allowed to fake hand offs and then attempt a forward pass. Really frustrating from a high pick that flashed potential and had all the necessary skills to be better than he was. His issues definitely seem to be mental more than anything.
I would feel a lot more comfortable about the defense, if I knew the worst case scenario at safety across from Jenkins was Nate Allen. It would be nice to have him as an insurance policy in case these other moves don’t work out. Trying to find a starter from a couple converted CBs, Earl Wolff that can’t get healthy or play through pain, Ed Reynolds, Jerome Couplin and a couple special teams only players, is less than reassuring.
But, I wouldn’t give Nate the money he got from Oakland if he had found a way to replace all his blood with the blood of Brian Dawkins himself. Nate Allen has a $7mil cap hit next year. He’d have the 4th highest cap hit on our team behind Bradford ($12.985mil), Peters ($9.05mil) and Maxwell ($8.7mil).
That’s just insane money to a player
who even for us, a team that has no proven starter at the position he’d play, would be nice to have as an insurance policy against failing to replace him with any and every player we could find to try and upgrade on him.
that is senseless considering they are not on the team because we don’t want them starting
real downer today aren’t ya Cafone… chin up.. CHIPOWITZ is in power..
I believe that the higher caliber of fans that frequent Iggles Blitz are for the most part able to acknowledge the team’s flaws rather than pretending every weakness is just a strength waiting to happen.
I like Chip Kelly. But he’s not magic. He’s been in Philly for two full seasons now and he has not yet turned journeymen/backup DBs into reliable starters. I do not expect him to do it this year either. I think it would be asking a little too much of any head coach to turn players into something they are not.
Unless Chip = Madden…
Does that rejoinder mean that you believe that John Madden had the Midas touch as HC?
every team has a weakness.. we got Byron, we have jenkins.. we have a big crop of options.. hopefully the best can show themselves… and we can get some serviceable options out there. very doom and gloom tho for so early in the offseason..
chip has also not had full control either you can see that he does now with all the changes… i dont think im of the utmost HIGHEST caliber fan but i also dont like to damn the teams weaknesses before they have even hit the field.. few OTAs dont count.. relax and enjoy the ride.. SB doesnt have to be this year.. making strides towards being a great football team in the next few years should be the goal..
Put the pieces together.. make the puzzle.. you want to start with the edges and work in.. hes got a lot of edges so far and all you can do is look at the pieces the birds dont have.. your a downer man, much like token from that other site.. maybe your him who knows.
There are so many young DBs that we have no clue about. unknown isnt automatically a bad thing, it could turn out to be a pleasant surprise…. it’s Not as if nate and Bradley set the bar very high… Fans have No friggin clue what we have In the secondary at this point, between new faces, and young players who are still growing, we have so many unknows at DB…all we really Need is 1 player to become a pleasant surprise…
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Thurmond at safety is intruiging…healthy, I think Walter is a much better,CB then Nate is at safety..curious to see what his transition to safety looks like…
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Since we signed him I thought Nolan was a better CB then this city seems to think…but THAT remains to be seen. interesting that the Eagles clearly think enough of Nolan and Rowe to take the clear cut established CB upgrade, Thurmond and give him first crack at Safety? dont know how else to read that other then chip thinks our CB situation is upgraded without thurmond..
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my Money is on Nolan starting outside in September
The good thing about CB is that there are young options. Not all of them are proven commodities. There could be a winner in that box of chocolates. Safety too I guess, but I am not real excited about those prospects.
I don’t think folks are pretending. One corner most probably has been upgraded, and the other one will most probably be an improvement over the last. The same projection, I think is safe to make about the open safety position. I don’t believe Undlin will tell his safety to help out on Witten AND Dez, leaving it up to him to decide after the snap and helping nobody. Alonso is a definite upgrade for this defense, as a ball-hawk, as a run-stpper and as a pass-deender. He can only help the secondary improve. I realize that improving over what was there is not the end goal. Another established corner night be a need in the next FA. And Undlin has a good track record. And remember this: the three gone DB’s who bore the brunt of the blame for our worst-in-the-league X-plays allowed were not nearly as weak in that area in 2013. So, maybe Bill Davis’s hands were tied a bit by DeMeco’s absence, and maybe that was more of a factor than has been noted. So we’ve clearly added depth to ILB, and there is a passel of athletic potential in the young corners. I am really curious about Shepherd. Injuries could blow it all up, but that is always the case.
No one at least that I’ve seen is saying he does. It’s a lot easier to work with Byron Maxwell than it is Cary Williams (or Fletcher). Way more talent.
Yeah we have some journeymen CBs, but the talent is way better going into to TC this year than it was last year. That’s not debatable.
While THATs true, no one, including you has any clue what our 1st, 2nd and 3rd year DBs look right now…how can someone be doom n gloom without knowing what we have? A 2nd year player like Jaylen Watkins, probably isn’t going to look like the players your eyes saw last year…
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Beimg doom n gloom, when you don’t have the slightest clue what we have, is no better then fanboys who assume every unknown is going to be great..
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I’d bet you Nolan Carroll looks much better then Brad Fletcher did..
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And no One has the slightest clue what we have at safety. Be foolish to be excited about the safety THATS replacing Nate, but it’s equally as foolish to assume that the safety we start will be a downgrade from Nate
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Nothing to do but play the wait and see game with all our new DBs…sounds like we can count on them Recieving better coaching then the past two years
Yea, I agree. The defensive backfield is fair from settled. I think at best, we’ll still have one spot up for grabs even next year.
As far as optimism goes: If you asked me what I thought was more likely, that the eagles DBs would be better this year than last or worse this year than last, I’d say better, no doubt about it. How much better, who knows, but I’d say that the odds were better are significantly and resoundingly higher than the odds we are worse.
All of these things SHOULD be true (of course anything can happen…but it’s reasonable to assume at this point that they will be):
Byron Maxwell > Cary Williams
Malcolm Jenkins ’15 = Malcolm Jenkins ’14
Healthy Boykin > Pulled hamstring Boykin from ’14
Combo of Rowe, Carroll, Thurmond, Biggers, Watkins, Evans, Shepherd > Fletcher, Carroll, Watkins (rookie) – With this last one, Watkins is a year older, Carroll has another year in the system and we replaced Fletcher with Rowe, Thurmond, Biggers, Exans and Shepperd.
Nate Allen vs Thurmond, Wollff, Watkins, or even Rowe could go either way.
So I think it’s reasonable to assume, at the very least, some improvement over last years DB corps. Especially, when you account for a better DB coach being brought in. But, I see no reason to think we’re any wose, except maybe at safety, and there’s enough potential there that we may even see improvement at that spot.
Last year we were atrocious in the secondary. Historically bad in some metrics, the starters were known commodities that we all knew were less than adequate starters, and there was no depth whatsoever. Fletcher started with Carroll and rookie Watkins as our only outside depth. This year we at least have lots of bodies with potential and promising physical attributes, plus people like Watkins and Carroll who are no longer new to the scheme or rookies and Earl Wolff coming back from injury.
The assumption by many the Rowe should be able to start this year is disappointing. Cornerback still seems to be a position that needs time to develop. I do hope that he gets playing time, and shows us something. I really hope he isn’t Casey Matthews’ed into it.
I doubt it. CK isn’t the type to do that.
Agreed I really don’t think he will be. What I forgot to elaborate on was that its disappointing to me because the fans will automatically hate him if he is brought along at a reasonable speed. Which sucks.
My feeling is the same. It’s why I feel bad for MS2. He played behind the starters Cole/Barwin, and BG took the snaps to give them breathers – so him not getting on the field over those 3 guys means his rookie season was a bust.
I get the gripe for MS2 a little more. He never really was able to crack the back up rotation. In 8 games played he registered a doughnut on the stat sheet. While I am not in the hater camp on him, I can at least understand their thinking.
I totally get why MS2, who we were all told from day one was a project anyway, couldn’t beat out the vets ahead of them. Those 3 were playing well. The problem I think most people have is that he didn’t even get snaps on special teams. You’ve got to be pretty deficient as a first round LBer to not even be able to run down the field and cover a kickoff. Plus it just seemed like the coaching staff had no faith in him whatsoever.
You want to, at the very least, see a first round pick flash something at you that let’s you know he has talent. I remember seeing Brian Dawkins flash on special teams once or twice as a rookie, Sheldon Brown had those couple of blow up tackles on kickoff returns against the cowboys as a rookie. MS2 didn’t show much in training camp, preseason, special teams, nada. And, he didn’t seem to progress much throughout the year. He was still firmly planted on the bench and not contributing even on special teams by week 17.
That being said, I’m one of the few fans, that has high hopes for him. I think he’s going to surprise a lot of people. He’s got all the tools to be a really decent outside LBer for us. I think we’ll see a fairly significant year two jump from him.
With Chip, I have faith that no rookie will play unless he proves he’s earned that right, and they won’t put him in there just to get his feet wet. They didn’t let MS2 hit the field even on special teams when he proved he couldn’t handle it and he was a first round pick. If Rowe plays it will be because he’s better than any of the other potential starting CBS. I think he earns a starting spot by mid year, but Carroll starts the season.
I’d be pretty surprised to see Rowe start this year,especially opening day against Atlanta… Think Nolan is a better corner then this city seems to think.
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I’d be surprised if Nolan isnt starting outside to start the season. I would prefer keeping Rowe on the bench all year, CB is a position not suited for rookies.
Nolan can play, no surprise if he starts all year… But if he gets injured, or struggles, hopefully we won’t need to play Rowe before the 2nd half of the season
I know its early but I don’t like to read that Bradford actually has a limp coming off the field.
that doesn’t sound like he is going to be doing much real practicing.
we can definitely beat some teams with the sanchize in the beginning of the season.
our defense will be tested right off against Atlanta though. can we cover Julio?
oh geez, you mean twig legs still cant do a light jog haha. Dont make me feel like a Rams fan this soon, it just aint right
Uh, he was moving around fine on the practice field yesterday. McLane’s doing his usual hack job trying to get everyone all riled up for nothing.
ok thanks, that makes me feel better. I made this point yesterday and it will stand because…..philly fans. Or any NFL fans really. Bradford will have zero room for error/growth. You just know fans will be jumping all over him the second theres some adversity…injury setbacks, poor play, losses. Get ready for it, it will come fast and be completely over the top, you just know it
Bradvord wouldn’t be allowed on the field if he still couldn’t jog and run..
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Don’t believe everything that hack McLane writes. He made it a point yesterday to crank out about 3 articles about how Bradford looks like a cripple just to get people panicked. He conveniently left out the part about him having a giant ice pack on when he walked into the facility.
Mclame
Sal Pal ripped chip a new one this week… Sal has become so bad….
Yeah I was disgusted with his coverage this week.
I’m thinking Kelly expects stupid questions from him. If I heard correctly,he was the one asking, “Can you guarantee …?” And Kelly cut him off, “Nothing is guaranteed…” Then later “Is this team today better than the team last year at this time..,?” Kelly said abruptly, “A thousand percent better…” I think Kelly likes Les. Jeff, mot so much.
Interested to see how many of the reporters in attendance (and not) are medically licensed doctors as well who have also performed extensive testing and analysis on Sam’s knee.
It’s may, still has 3 months. They’re paying MS enough to start next season, i’m not worried really.
I am looking forward to the entertainment value of Tim Tebow when Sanchize goes down.
Has to beat out Barkley first.
You’re evil, my friend, evil. Should Tim and I pray for you?
So on top of your half assed borderline stupid comments you are also a prophet huh? Sanchez going down because you said so?
Are you predicting that the Eagles will suffer no QB injuries this season? Recent history would suggest that is more of a logical leap than assuming that Eagles QBs will miss games due to injury.
My BOLD (Cafone) predictions…
At least 2 QB will play at some point…
At least 3 RB will play at some point…
At least 5 WR will play at some point…
At least 3 TE will play at some point…
At least 7 OL will play at some point…
At least 5 DL will play at some point…
At least 6 LB will play at some point…
At least 6 DB will play at some point…
He is practicing 7 on 7 next week… Doubt we see him move on to the next step, if he was really limping or suffered a setback
Its not a limp. Its his pimp walk
it’s Friday people, lighten up. Bradford, MS II, and all the DB’s suck. After one day of OTA’s.
The problem with the secondary for a long time was no youth to develop. During the end of the Reid tenure we had Mike marker 23 and 24 starting with the presumption that we didn’t need to take any secondary players in the first 3 rounds of the draft. Well, our starters sucked and we didn’t have any young talent to replace them. When Chip got here the cupboard was essentially bare forcing Chip to start rebuilding. He took Wolfe then Watkins and now Rowe and Shepherd. So while the secondary may not be as good as it can be this year, I feel so much better about it in the ffuture and even this year. In summation, the secondary is still a question but with leaders/vets like Maxwell and Jenkins and with young talent line Rowe, Shepherd and Watkins, the future isn’t as dim as the past.
“the Eagles are set to host free agent offensive lineman Chris Chester for a visit in Philadelphia” – Chester plays RG, 32 yo vet, played for redskins for a longtime.
He’s made 111 starts in 137 career appearances. He hasn’t played less than all 16 games since 2010.
Chester played college football for Oklahoma.
is he any good?
Meh
Hmmm, I’m wondering about how this affects the Mathis situation.
hopefully it gets him into camp
Also it could mean they don’t like what they see now either. I’m not sure which is the right answer (or a combination of both), but this is an interesting move.
Due diligence?
That works too!
I’m not an offensive lineman expert by any means, but I’d guess there’s not much that can change your opinion of an offensive lineman when they’re running around in shorts and no pads and not able to hit anyone.
If Mathis is holding, which he is, you have to start preparing for the potential that he doesn’t play at all this year. If he comes back, is in shape, and plays like an All-pro, great. If not, I’m sure they’ll be looking high and low for more depth at least, viable starters if possible.
But, I doubt that Chip’s opinion on Tobin, Barbre, Gardner and Molk has changed significantly or at all since the end of the season, based on a few OTA practices without any pads or hitting.
Good point. It is pretty unlikely that he watched OTAs and went back into the meeting room and said, “Holy hell, who can we call?”
he’ll play when they start fining him — until then he’ll just work out in his gym.
Or his driveway
Maybe “air” was beating Tobin. Not a good sign.
I was kinda hoping this would happen.
I remember. Good call.
this was on BGN:
“Chester is thought of as a great fit for a [zone blocking scheme] due to his light stature and athletic ability at the [guard] position. After playing TE during his first three years in college, he converted to G. The Redskins are moving to a larger, power blocking scheme this year that generally requires bigger, stronger OL. Due to Chester’s age, salary, and size, the cut isn’t all that surprising.”
alright, alright
Speaking of lessons . . .
Why does Kelly get to wear a non-midnight green ball cap?
At this point, I’ll take drab-olive green jerseys and helmets.
‘Cause if Kelly can do it, why can’t the equipment manager working for HR?
Hypothetical:
Next year Goodel announces 2 new expansion teams, one in LA one in London, NAY, Dublin…and by now you might see where I’m going with this
They are still in the process of hammering out the details but rumor has it the Dublin team’s mascot has a strong chance of being the Leprechaun, AND, as a tribute to all the lawns that aren’t here no mo, the LA team wants to be called the Lawnies and wear, not brown, NAY, but a vibrant green like only the most robust of sprinklers and prosperity can bring.
1. Is Kelley green protected as our historic team color, from new teams poaching for the most beautiful color scheme in nfl history.
2. If not, upon hearing this, how agressivly do you push the issue? Petitions to Lurie? Terroristic threats?
I love this!
Lurie would make a gift of the Kelly green jersey to the owners of the new Dublin Leprechauns.
Among Eagles owners — and most have been disappointing for various reasons — I’ll take Leonard Tose over Laurie.
Yes, Tose — because of his financial problems — played the Phoenix card to get a better lease from the City.
But so what. The NFL and the every one of the owners, including Lurie (through Banner), extort the hell out of cities around the US.
At least Tose kept the Kelly green.
Yes, I never hated the midnight green (though lately it seems to be getting a weird shade of aqua or something in it in certain lights that bothers me), but it’s had it’s time in history. It’s the look of Brian Dawkins, Trent Cole, Donovan McNabb, etc. Lets retire that look, it was a good run, but when we do finally hoist that trophy, we ought to be wearing the Kelley green.
Agreed
I think overt threats of awe inspiring mass violence are on the table at that point, for sure.
Kelly doesn’t answer hypotheticals
I would offer Boykin in trade to the Leprechauns, he should fit their measurables, in exchange for the right to Kelly green and that Ira guy. I don’t know much about him, but I heard IRA is violent and very dedicated. Sounds perfect for our defense.
I would also offer Sproles to the LA Lawn Gnomes, for the same reason. In return, I would want the rights to green in perpetutity and a promise of safety for our LA Igglesblitz brethren trapped in enemy territory.
OOOOOO the LA lawn gnomes have a GREAT color scheme,This should be pretty easy to adapt (refresh)
http://www.serenityhealth.com/images/spare/Gus%20the%20original%20Gnome.jpg
Is that Kelce?
Yeah, you can tell by the knife he always carries
“Tebow’s windup takes a lifetime”
Tebow still being Tebow.
“Falcons waive Prince Shembo following animal cruelty charge”. If you read the details, and if it is true he really kicked the crap out of that dog (little Yorkshire Terrier). Sad. New cowboy LB coming right up…
Another beneficiary of NCAA and its affiliates promoting and enabling unsavory characters because they can play football. He was investigated for sexual assault at Notre Dame, and predictably, never charged. This is a storyline that won’t go away until enough people have had enough.
Yeh, I don’t get it because, personally football isn’t that important to me where I would not rather see a guy get away with no jail time than play in “the big game.” Even when it comes to the Eagles winning a SB. If we had a superstar who we couldn’t win without but he did some terrible things and wasn’t punished, I wouldn’t want the win.
Pro sports have clearly reached the point where it is necessary for every athlete to maintain a positive public image, in the same way that any spokes person in any business must. It’s not good enough to be good at catching a ball anymore. I think that’s a positive message to send to the world, all things considered.
I agree, but unfortunately I don’t think it will ever be the case, especially with football. Numbers wise there are just too many people on a team for everyone to be a good seed. Couple that with the media and social media every bad thing will be broadcasted.
need to maintain a public image + lots of cameras around = hopefully better-behaved players
Although a little Orwellian.
Is he Nigerian? If he is, I am glad I didn’t send him money.
Sounds about right.
You have to be a little mentally twisted to do that.
Damn, I hate Yorkies. Just kidding, guys!
(Actually, I kind of don’t like Yorkies. But, well, not that much).
A little link about C. Williams in Seattle. He seems to be liking it. Hopefully Undlin can bring some of the things we were so lacking last year: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000494671/article/williams-lauds-legion-of-booms-attention-to-detail?campaign=Facebook_ATN_Patra Don’t forget to read some of the comments at the bottom for a good laugh.
Looking at our RFA list going into 2016; are there any of those guys you’d all try to trade now rather than lose for some garbage 2017 compensatory picks that we may not ever get due to our own possible signings from other teams?
Here is the list
Bradford, Thurmond, Carroll, Thorton, Austin, Boykin, Kendricks, Currry, Gardner, Prosinski, Kelly, Ajirotutu, Tebow, Goode, Vandervelde, Acho, Bair, Biggers, Molk.
Obviously some of these guys are going to be cut anyway. Some are just here on one year deals and won’t be back. Some, mostly Bradford in my mind, aren’t going anywhere unless they’re totally rubbish.
So what is screaming at me are the following 4 guys; Kendricks, Boykin, Thorton, and Curry.
I don’t see anybody playing break the bank for Ced Thorton, so I’m not pressed to do anything with him in terms of extending his deal. I think we can get him back at a good cost or replace his spot on the roster with several options.
I 100% don’t see Boykin (who wants to start outside and get PAID) and Kendricks (trade for Kiko, target lock on Hicks in the draft, extension of Ryans) on this team next year. At this point, because nothing materialized on draft day, we’d need to keep an eye on teams with weaknesses and injuries at ILB and CB to vulture picks. I’d like a 2nd rounder with a conditional additional pick for Kendricks (sliding from a 5th up to a 3rd based on games played and remaining on that team) and a 3rd rounder with a conditional additional pick for Boykin (sliding from a 6th up to a 4th based on games played and remaining on that team).
Curry is my big question mark. If he has similar production to last year, call it 8 sacks this time around, he’s going to command top dollar on the free agent market. Look at what folks were willing to pay for Everson Griffon ( 5 years / $42 mil) when he hit the market. Do you keep Curry here on that type of deal, let him walk, or trade him for similar compensation to what you’re going to get for Kendricks now?
In every case, I’m going to be irked if these guys play out the year here and leave for nothing.
Your case for Kendicks and Boykin makes sense to me. Curry gets resigned, I think, because there is nobody in Eagles locker who can deliver his sack #’s, and that is worth paying for, if only to keep him off of Giants, Hardyboys DL’s.
I’m down with that logic of keeping Curry. He can just put his name on the Griffen deal, collect his $8 / year over 5, and step into a higher % of the plays at DE.
I like Thornton, but If he were to leave he wouldn’t be that greatly missed. I’m hoping one of our other young DE can step up and take his place by the time he becomes a FA.
Agree with Kendricks and Boykin.
I’ve been saying that out of Kendricks, Boykin, and Curry I expect Curry to be retained. He has a set of skills that nobody else on this team can replicate.
The only way I see him leaving is if BG and Smith become a feared pass rushing duo, Cox continues to improve his pass rush, and either Hart, Mihalik, or Raciti (none of which are guaranteed to make team) step up and become at the minimum effective pass rushers. I don’t see all that happening.
Keep in mind thought that Curry has always been an Eagle, even before he was drafted. It’s very possible that he could give us a large home team discount.
Well it depends on what the Eagles plan to do in FA in 2016. Lets say they plan to retain Bradford/Curry/Thurmond/Gardner, we will have very little FA activity outside our own squad (1-2 Special teams guys) In that case there are a range of guys who could get decent contracts who will be walking away next year, and that could add up to a decent hall of Comp picks in 2017.
Comp picks are one of the great market inefficiency’s of the NFL. It allows good franchises to have far more darts at the draft board, filling up the roster with young cheap talent and giving you more chances to find difference makers. You keep the great players, let the decent ones walk and pick up draft picks to restock your farm.
Problem is it takes 4-5 years of solid drafting to be able to get into that cycle, because the lead time to on the comp picks, both 1 year to arrive and then 1-2 years to develop into contributing players (like most late round picks), and then another 2-3 years before they then complete the cycle.
If Chip is thinking of long term sustained success – getting Comp picks and finding a Franchise QB are 2 of the biggest keys.
Looks like Chester signed with Atlanta. What a joke. 1 year deal, so he can get cut in camp. That team sucks and that city is full of trash. I swear every 3rd NFL player that gets locked up in the off-season is up to no good in Atlanta.
Asking another question of the group; anything we like out of this group if Bradford isn’t worth keeping?
http://walterfootball.com/draft2016QB.php
Cook if he comes out will probably go to high for the Eagles to get if he has another good season (scouts will love him since he plays in a pro system)
Hackenberg should stay in college imho, needs a lot more development, most of his reputation is based on being the No.1 prospect and still going to Penn, not for what he has done thus far.
same with Jones, even if he starts this year (not for sure at all) he should stay in college and develop his game more – i want no part of drafting a QB who has played 3 games total at college.
Only interesting QB would be Goff, I will watch some of their games and see how he looks because from a tools perspective he might be of interest no idea if he will even be available for Chip.
Goff/Cal highlights from last year
https://youtu.be/A5WBSXRhbv8
I actually think Hackenburg should leave, he’s not a great scheme fit for Franklin, and the online talent is still below average even with some decent recruits. I think he’d shine in the draft lead up(primarily in interviews) and would help his stock better than what he’ll be able to do on the field in that situation.
Not listed because I guess he may not come out, but I think Jeremy Johnson will be the best QB in the draft if he does.
I mentioned him on another thread, but people seemed less enthusiastic about him. He’s going to be a stud though.
https://vine.co/v/ehBBPVL5tdZ
I think he stays in College another year, he has so few starts – he has only completed 57 passes in college so far. Interesting tools tho.
I like Hackenberg, I think he’ll be a better pro than college player, once he’s surrounded by some real talent. Who really knows about C Jones, we will see how this year shakes out. That’s like 1 1/2 prospects, besides that I don’t see much. Cook is a backup to me, unless I’m missing some emerging talent it’s another rough year for QB needy teams.
Heard Goff from cal is supposed to be pretty good. Saw hackenburg play a few times and I thought he was good but need some improvement the rest of his team sucks though.
Nope
Besides being an obvious scumbag piece of trash, Prince Shembo is incredibly stupid…. After what MIke Vick put the Falcons and owner Aurthur Blank thru, you have to be the dumbest son of a bitch to get arrested for animal cruelty when Aurthur Blank cuts your checks,… Not surprised the falcons already waived him.,, hope he doesn’t get a job, but we know how much Jerry jones loves the scum of humanity….
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Riley Cooper should be ashamed of himself. Chip sticking by him is what brought all this racist BS to chips door..
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I assume Tre Thomas Commited professional suicide with his racial accusations..
Dallas is moving DE Mincy to DT And they are projecting to start Randy Gregory at RE…. Have they lost their mind? He is going to get killed on 1st and 2nd Down.. it’s going to be awesome to play them In week 2 LOL for his 2nd NFL game, he will have to Battle it out with jason Peters all game? Yes please!..
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If they start the rookie against us in week 2, demarco will rush for 200 yards