Good Sign for Cox

Posted: July 17th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 136 Comments »

Anyone who saw the movie Rounders should remember the famous line John Malkovich delivered in a nasally, awkward Russian accent – “Pay that man his money.” That’s the way I feel about the Eagles and Fletcher Cox…pay that man his money.

There is some thought that you don’t pay 3-4 DEs big money. Their job is mostly to 2-gap. Find an athletic DT and move him to DE, ala Cedric Thornton. You can get several years of good play for minimal money. Go spend big money on LBs since they are the true life blood of the 3-4.

That makes sense in a general way, but there are some players you make exceptions for. The Steelers just gave 3-4 DE Cam Heyward a 5-year deal worth $59.25M. The Pats gave big money to Richard Seymour when he was a star for them. JJ Watt deserves every penny that he gets paid.

I think Cox is a man you pay. He is the Eagles best defensive player. Cox makes the guys around him better because of his ability to eat up blockers and make plays. He can push the pocket and create sack opportunities for the OLBs. He can disrupt run plays with penetration and create easy tackle situations for other defenders. Chip Kelly has referred to him as the team’s defensive MVP in the past.

Losing Cox wouldn’t be the same as letting Mychal Kendricks go or losing Thornton. Those guys are good starters, but they aren’t the kind of talents you build a defense around.

Cox is signed through the end of 2016, but it seems like this is the time you’d want to go to him and talk about an extension. Maybe the Eagles want one more year off the rookie deal.

I sure hope the thought process isn’t that “We’ll get 5 good years out of him and then let him go get paid elsewhere.” Finding 3-4 DL who can make plays and 2-gap is hard. You don’t want to overpay someone who is just a good run defender. That’s why Thornton might not get the deal he wants from the Eagles. He is good, but that skill is replaceable.

If you put Cox and Thornton on the market, Thornton would get some phone calls. There are plenty of teams who could use his skills. Cox would talk to 31 teams. Everyone would have some interest in adding an impact defender.

Cox may never have heard of Cam Heyward before today, but you can sure bet he knows him now. 3-4 DEs getting paid is a good sign for Cox. Other than Watt, Cox just might be the best 3-4 DE in the league.

The sky is the limit for him, both on the field and financially.

* * * * *

Some perspective on the deal from Mike Florio (who is great with contracts).

A source told PFT’s Mike Florio that Heyward’s deal is a five-year extension worth $59.25 million. The new money average of $10.45 million a year is higher than Corey Liuget of the San Diego Chargers and falls just behind Cameron Jordan of the New Orleans Saints.

136 Comments on “Good Sign for Cox”

1 Ark87 said at 8:48 AM on July 17th, 2015:
I hope so Tommy. But Chip is pretty ruthless. I think it all comes down to how much Cox likes it here. If what he really wants is to 1-gap and get a bunch of sacks and possibly get recognized as one of the all-time great DT/DE’s he can do that somewhere else and get paid a ton to do that. If he really loves it here in Philly and thinks this is a great place to go after a super bowl and/or really likes 2-gapping….I don’t know, I think we’ll give him a pretty sweet offer, and someone else will give him a sweeter one. From there it’s all up to Cox.
2 A_T_G said at 8:57 AM on July 17th, 2015:
“I think it all comes down to how much Cox likes it here.”
This makes me confident that we will get him signed. We have seen relationships last longer than expected for this very reason.
3 Ark87 said at 9:00 AM on July 17th, 2015:
especially since Coach Azz is offering a 2-gap position
4 eagleyankfan said at 9:52 AM on July 17th, 2015:
Shady liked it here a lot. So Did Maclin. Few, very few, players give discounts. They may love this town as the best place on earthy, but they’ll follow the money….
5 Media Mike said at 10:32 AM on July 17th, 2015:
And I don’t blame them. The NFL jettisons guys the second they have a slip in their play vs. their pay; so go earn every penny while you can.
6 Avery Greene said at 11:08 AM on July 17th, 2015:
I think about DWade and his issue. His situation is why players rarely give discounts.
7 D3FB said at 11:16 AM on July 17th, 2015:
And Dwade got overpaid on his new contract in part because of that.
The NFL doesn’t give huge money to over the hill players
8 Avery Greene said at 11:21 AM on July 17th, 2015:
No one should for that matter. At the end of the day it’s a business, and the company has to think about bottom line.
9 eagleyankfan said at 11:10 AM on July 17th, 2015:
no, I don’t blame them either. Get what you can when you can…life is so short as an nfl player
10 anon said at 11:03 AM on July 17th, 2015:
Maclin i feel was less likely to give a discount since we played him w/ that one year $5m deal when were rolling like $20m.
Plus the KC situation was too perfect.
11 eagleyankfan said at 11:10 AM on July 17th, 2015:
That was Mac’s choice. he turned down a multi-year deal and roll the dice. He played it perfectly.
12 botto said at 12:26 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Home is where the bank is
13 D3FB said at 9:08 AM on July 17th, 2015:
He’s under team control for 2 years. You could then franchise tag him.
No one else would likely be able to talk to him until after 2017.
It doesn’t make sense for the player or the team to talk extension until after this season at the earliest.
14 Ark87 said at 9:27 AM on July 17th, 2015:
I understand it’s nothing that’s going to happen soon, not pounding the table to get it done now or anything.
It just happens to be the topic of the article.
15 D3FB said at 9:48 AM on July 17th, 2015:
Not you specifically I’m more speaking to the general level of hand wringing when it comes to Cox and his future with the Eagles.
16 Ark87 said at 9:51 AM on July 17th, 2015:
ah got it
17 GEAGLE said at 5:12 PM on July 18th, 2015:
This summer Curry sounds extremely confident about getting an extension next year,. hear he has really gotten the hang of two gapping and they are expecting him to be a beast against the run this year.. BG talked about what made him stay was how much chip really made him feel that he wanted him here. And we don’t need to talk about losing Cox til at least 2021.. Kids not going anywhere.,,, think Kendricks needs to stay healthy to have a shot at being here next year..I don’t believe hicks and Meco have already sealed his fate like most seem to think
18 bill said at 11:24 AM on July 17th, 2015:
This. I think Chip and co. value Cox highly. I have a feeling, though, that the best possible system for his skillset is a 1-gap 3-4, and one of those teams is going to let it be known that they’ve got a Brinks truck with Fletcher Cox painted on the sides available. So it will come down to whether he wants to stay here and 2-gap or he wants to shine in a 1-gap system. The best hope is that he wants the security of an early extension and the Eagles are willing to not get much of a discount for it. I get the feeling Chip isn’t a guy who’s going to like the “tag him every year” option. Bad for #culture.
19 BlindChow said at 1:18 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Can you imagine if he went to Houston?
20 Ark87 said at 3:46 PM on July 17th, 2015:
the “we don’t have a franchise QB to pay so why not?” plan. Terrifying.
21 Ben said at 1:19 AM on July 18th, 2015:
How do you know Sam is not that QB your speaking of?
Last time I checked, Chips system makes average QB’s look good and Sam is above average at his worst.
Take a look at what Sam had in St. Louis then compare that to what he now has surrounding him.
Coming to a great team could do wonders for Sam IMO.
The way I see it, Sanchez is not nearly as good as Sam and we won ten games with him.
Think Brees when he left San Diego.
12-4 or better with Sam , IMO.
22 BlindChow said at 9:37 AM on July 18th, 2015:
We were talking about Houston. There were only 8 words in my sentence, and one of them was literally “Houston.”
Try to keep up.
23 A_T_G said at 8:50 AM on July 17th, 2015:
My first thought in watching the highlights was that Cox is left unblocked a lot for such a good player. On second watch, Cox was unblocked despite the offensive lineman, or two, hanging off of him.
My favorite were the plays where the OLineman tried to block him, realized it wasn’t working, and peeled off to go find a linebacker without moving Cox a step.
24 Avery Greene said at 8:55 AM on July 17th, 2015:
http://cdn.toucharcade.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg
25 EagleNebula said at 10:04 AM on July 18th, 2015:
https://media.giphy.com/media/qi8Yhj4pKcIec/giphy.gif
26 D3FB said at 9:09 AM on July 17th, 2015:
Cam’s a good player, but likely it will be Wilkerson’s deal that sets the market for Cox.
27 EAGLES said at 1:50 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
28 P_P_K said at 9:49 AM on July 17th, 2015:
Rounders is a great flick with an awesome cast. ‘Gotta post this exchange from the film:
Worm: She’s really got him by the balls.
Petra: That’s not so bad, is it?
Worm: It depends on the grip!
29 Jernst said at 4:14 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Russian Gangsters: **something in Russian**
Worm: “hey, only English at the table”
Russians: “What? You think we cheat?”
Worm: “No, I’m sure you guys are just talking about perogies and snow and shit, but if you want to see this seventh card, ya better cut it the F@*K out with the sputnik talk.”
Great dialogue in that movie
30 P_P_K said at 4:52 PM on July 17th, 2015:
I’m a big admirer of Edward Norton. He played alongside Robert De Niro and Marlon Brando in “Score,” maybe my favorite movie of all time. The kid held his own amongst those two heavyweights.
31 Bert's Bells said at 6:56 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Brando was apparently a total bitch to Frank Oz on that movie.
Probably jealous -between Miss Piggy and Yoda Oz was clearly the better actor.
32 GEAGLE said at 5:07 PM on July 18th, 2015:
Marlon Brando had a 180lb Cane Corso.. Beautiful dog, inspired me to get my Beasts
33 eagleyankfan said at 10:27 AM on July 17th, 2015:
“He is the Eagles best defensive player.” — today. At the end of the year, I have hopes a star will rise and be a beast….
34 D3FB said at 10:29 AM on July 17th, 2015:
Who?
35 eagleyankfan said at 10:30 AM on July 17th, 2015:
Kiko
36 Media Mike said at 10:32 AM on July 17th, 2015:
I’m with that.
37 D3FB said at 10:35 AM on July 17th, 2015:
Cox is more talented than Kiko.
Peak Cox is a superior player to Kiko.
38 eagleyankfan said at 11:08 AM on July 17th, 2015:
Hmmm, I’m not saying Cox isn’t good. He’s great. I’m thinking Kiko will be more dominating if he can stay healthy. More impact-ful :).
39 D3FB said at 11:13 AM on July 17th, 2015:
I mean due to the nature of the scheme sure.
But he’s not going to become a transcendant LB ala Willis, Keuchely, or Urlacherzzzz.
40 eagleyankfan said at 11:15 AM on July 17th, 2015:
I’ll take a touch lower than Keuchely. His rookie year was quite impressive. I’ll take Cox/Kiko up the middle any day of the week. Going to be a strong middle for sure…
41 D3FB said at 11:16 AM on July 17th, 2015:
We’re a Graham upgrade away from the best front 7 in football.
42 anon said at 11:18 AM on July 17th, 2015:
Yeah it’s crazy how much better we are in the middle of the field than the guys that saw the field last year. And they are all relatively cheap.
43 MattE said at 11:55 AM on July 17th, 2015:
….or hopefully a Graham-breakout year making all of Philadelphia forget that he should be Earl Thomas (i still can’t let it go haha).
44 D3FB said at 9:18 AM on July 18th, 2015:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
NOPE.
BG is averagre at best.
45 Media Mike said at 9:23 AM on July 18th, 2015:
I was very disappointed that Graham’s % of pressure, sacks, etc. from the first 14 games last year didn’t continue in the two games he started to close the season. I especially wanted to see a kill shot on Eli. I was somewhat shocked they paid Graham to come back, I really would have preferred Sheard.
46 RobNE said at 11:12 AM on July 18th, 2015:
then why did we resign him? just b/c of a lack of a better option?
47 Media Mike said at 11:19 AM on July 18th, 2015:
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/brandon-graham/
It really looks like a 2 year contract in terms of when you can cut him; so we’re buying time until Smith plays to his draft pick and needs to get paid again or we have to really invest in a top money guy and/or high pick on OLB again.
48 D3FB said at 4:05 PM on July 18th, 2015:
Yep.
It’s effectively a 2 year 11 mil contract.
Lack of proven in house replacements. Any FA you’re getting for less than that is a gamble.
49 Media Mike said at 9:07 AM on July 18th, 2015:
Didn’t we spend a first round draft pick on that upgrade in 2013?
50 b3nz0z said at 1:35 PM on July 17th, 2015:
i disagree. he seems to showcase the best strengths of meco and kendricks. have you watched his game against the bengals?
51 Media Mike said at 9:07 AM on July 18th, 2015:
You really think Urlacher was that good? I saw a guy who often overran plays, was out of position and had to use speed to recover, and frequently showed a poor understanding of how filed position works by blasting ball carriers and receivers from behind while knocking them forward for 2 or 3 extra yards.
52 MattE said at 10:51 AM on July 17th, 2015:
Walter Thurmond hopefully lol
53 Ben said at 12:45 AM on July 18th, 2015:
I agree that Kiko should benefit from having Cox drawing double teams.
Watched Kiko’s rookie tape with the Bills and he can do it all.
He will blow up many runs and will be multiple sacks every game.
You hear about sideline to sideline players and he is one of them.
Can you imagine D coordinators wondering how to deal with the immediate pressure we should be bringing this season?
IMO, our defense could be top ten IF the starters can remain healthy.
54 CHRIS said at 10:44 AM on July 17th, 2015:
At 1:02, he takes on the Olineman with his right arm, then takes on the RB with his left. So impressive.
55 anon said at 11:06 AM on July 17th, 2015:
“Houston says that playing for Chiefs coach Andy Reid the last two years, he has come to appreciate what it is to play for a great coach.
“For me, it was very important,” Houston said, via the Kansas City Star. “I like Coach Reid a lot. He’s a great coach. He helped motivate me, pushed me to become a better player. So any time you get around that type of coach, you love to play for him.”
56 Ben said at 12:58 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Not in the least bit surprised to read this.
Andy has been, and always will be a “players coach”.
Although, I am pretty sure a lot of our current players would say the same about Coach Kelly, even though he is not considered a players coach.
It speaks to the level of character that Chip demands, which is a direct result why players would speak about Chip in the same fashion IMO.
57 anon said at 1:39 PM on July 17th, 2015:
yeah i think AR deserves credit for molding less than perfect guys, w/ chip it’s birds of a feather, but with AR it seems like he’s invested in the “person” as well. Philly hasn’t done a lot right in terms of football but we’ve been blessed w/ amazing coaches.
58 Michael Winter Cho said at 6:13 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Er… had a pretty nice run ’99-’08.
59 Jack Waggoner said at 10:58 PM on July 17th, 2015:
I agree… I think both he and the team needed fresh starts. But he’s doing a great job in KC now.
60 EagleNebula said at 9:48 AM on July 18th, 2015:
I think it is leveling the scales from Kotite…
In all seriousness, the Lurie deserves credit for investing in good coaching and letting them work. Too many owners in big markets meddle or make it about themselves in all sports. Whether it’s Al Davis, Jerruh, Marc Cuban or Steinbrenner when the celebrity of the owner overtakes the team it is a recipe for disaster and tough to find good people who want to be there.
Disclosure: the Marc Cuban inclusion is admittadly more about hating Shark Tank
61 Media Mike said at 9:51 AM on July 18th, 2015:
Outside of Lurie being a little cash poor on signing bonus money when he first purchased the team, he’s been great.
The only major thing the Eagles have done under Lurie that I have a problem with was allowing Kelly to destroy the atmosphere for fans at training camp by taking away from the ability of people to attend practices in an unlimited manner at a college campus.
He’s really been an awesome owner.
62 EagleNebula said at 9:56 AM on July 18th, 2015:
Lehigh was great for the fans, and I am glad I went while it was still there (I grew up in Allentown but left prior to camp moving there so I only had 1 opportunity to go).
63 Media Mike said at 10:05 AM on July 18th, 2015:
As were West Chester and Widener. I’m hopeful that Kelly fixes that mistake in the future.
64 EagleNebula said at 10:07 AM on July 18th, 2015:
Doubtful. My brother has lived in Eugene for over a decade and he loves pointing out the “wall Chip Kelly built” while driving past the UO practice field.
65 Media Mike said at 10:08 AM on July 18th, 2015:
At some point that will change I hope. If not, there will always be another coach in the future. That camp experience was a vital component of why a lot of adult Eagles fans built their love of the team as kids.
66 EagleNebula said at 10:11 AM on July 18th, 2015:
I just am hoping he keeps doing the Kellystrator. That segment is just fantastic and really a great way to help fans understand him.
67 Media Mike said at 10:13 AM on July 18th, 2015:
Agreed; for adults.
68 botto said at 1:59 PM on July 17th, 2015:
everybody loves taco Tuesday and cheeseburger Friday.
69 Kelce's Beard said at 2:38 PM on July 17th, 2015:
I’m very good friends with a guy down here who was signed by Reid as a rookie FA in 09. Said he was the best coach he ever played for, and spoke highly of the FO as a whole. Followed Heckert to CLE in ’10
70 Joe Minx said at 7:07 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Would this guy happen to have most recently played for the Broncos?
71 Kelce's Beard said at 11:42 PM on July 17th, 2015:
no, went PHL–>CLE–>TEN before out of league
72 MagsBirdieBaby said at 7:35 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Andy must have changed his mind about linebackers.
73 Media Mike said at 9:04 AM on July 18th, 2015:
I don’t blame Houston for saying that. He was drafted under Todd Haley, one of the biggest fake tough guy pieces of shit alive. Todd Haley is quite possible one of the biggest scumbags in all of pro sports. He should also investing in killing himself for getting the entire Chiefs starting skill position roster on O hurt in meaningless pre-season games; especially because he cost me my fantasy TE in the process.
Todd Haley is a piece of shit.
74 mtn_green said at 12:47 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Cox is one gapping at times. Other times he is two gapping but he just rag dolls the guard and gets a sack/tackle, looks like one gapping.
That Carolina game was ridiculous.
The first Giants game there was a turnstile playing right guard and I think Azz just let them take turns getting their sacks.
Chip will offer tons of money, some team might outbid though.
75 Ben said at 12:53 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Love the topic Tommy as it would show me that the Eagles are thinking long term than short.
Why wouldn’t you cut a deal with Cox now, as he is more poised to have a major breakout season this year, that would have his value sky rocket by seasons end.
We are not talking about a middle of the road 3-4 DE, as Cox has already proven to me that he is far more valuable than what he is currently getting paid.
If the Eagles could lock him down now for a similar or perhaps slightly more than the Cam Heyward deal, they may pay Cox more this coming season, but we could save a whole lot more by locking him up for 5-6 years now.
I think Cox could emerge to be the #1, 3-4 DE this season, now that our secondary has enough promise to warrant higher expectations from Cox.
If we wait and he leads the league in sacks, you can bet he will get a lot more then. You have to believe that the Eagles F.O is smart enough to anticipate this possibility and have this thought on their minds, at the very least.
I’ll admit that I am very biased with Cox in particular because he led the league last season in 3-4 DE’s in tackles and the player in 2nd place was like 20 tackles behind him. If you add that to the fact that Cox was snubbed for the Pro Bowl, now you have an angry and motivated Cox that will look to destroy the double teams they try and throw at him this season.
I already know he plays well enough without having to motivate him, but if I was Cox after the season I had last year and got snubbed for the Pro Bowl, I would make it a point to stand out by taking out my frustrations on QB’s, so I get noticed more often.
The last thing that NFC East teams want on their hands is an angry Cox.
76 MattE said at 1:41 PM on July 17th, 2015:
he won’t lead in sacks on our team let alone the league (3-4, 2-Gap-Bias hahaha). Either way as long as we give him enough GUARANTEED money then I think he would be fine with the contract that he eventually gets, plus the cap will continue to grow next year….my guess somewhere around $50-$60mill guaranteed would do the trick 2 years from now…. the only thing that would royally screw this up is if Bradford gets a monster deal after 1 year of good play.
77 MattE said at 1:47 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Houston’s guaranteed money = $32.5 mill.
78 eagleyankfan said at 1:44 PM on July 17th, 2015:
from a player stand point — of course he’d want his money now … but from a team financial stand point, why in the world would you sign him now? (as D3FB said below) – he’s under the team control for 2 more years and you can franchise tag after that…
79 Jernst said at 1:48 PM on July 20th, 2015:
Only way it would make any sense for the Eagles is if it was a long term extension that was tacked on to the two years he already has. We’d sacrifice some of our roll forward money this year for his bonus, but we’d essentially be able to lock up an ascending star at a discount for the next 7 years.
With the amount the cap is projected to go up, that could be a substantial long term savings as contracts signed now will look very small in a few years.
The downside to waiting would be that, while we have him at a discount for this and next year, and wouldn’t have to waste our roll forward money on giving him a bonus now, we’d have to spend a lot more 2 years from now with an increased cap to lock him up. And, if he continues to become an elite player his price tag could be substantially higher.
And extension now would not change his salaries this and next year, the deal would be tacked on as an extension. The only difference being that he’d get his guaranteed money this year rather than 2 offseasons from now.
80 EAGLES said at 1:44 PM on July 17th, 2015:
I hear Timmy Jernigan killed it last year with Baltimore as a D-end. Can rush the passer and stop the run at elite status, he might be better than Cox. At one point his pass rush grade was up with Watt. Still really young.
81 TypicalDouche said at 1:52 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Jernigan couldn’t hold Cox’s jockstrap. He played on a team with 2 stud OLBs, a forgotten man named Haloti Ngata, and stud ILB in CJ Mosley. Yes the Eagles have a good front 7 but Jernigan played with experienced 3-4 players. Cox is a monster against the run and a an underrated pass rusher. No comparison in my mind.
82 EAGLES said at 1:53 PM on July 17th, 2015:
We’ll see.
83 TypicalDouche said at 2:14 PM on July 17th, 2015:
None of the other stuff matters? I hope you’re joking because if not you have lost all validity in your argument. If you play with studs it makes your job much easier. I am not saying Jernigen isnt a good player but for you to compare him to the 2nd best 3-4 DE in the league is absurd. Cox is slow to get after the passer? He plays a 2-gap which his job isnt primarily rushing the passer so of course he doesnt get to the QB often.
84 EAGLES said at 2:09 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Well lemme put it this way: he might end up being the better pass rusher out of the two. But Cox might still be better it just seems like many times he’s slow getting after the qb. For his size he’s really athletic but his size also hinders that at the same time. Looks like he’s chasing a qb on stilts sometimes. I hope he breaks out for more sacks this year and attacks more.
85 TypicalDouche said at 2:14 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Once again the Eagles run a 2-gap 3-4 not a 1-gap penetrating 3-4 so you wont see Cox attack more.
86 EAGLES said at 2:33 PM on July 17th, 2015:
LOL well I know what defense we run, but he still didn’t get after the passer enough. Simple as that. Did he dominate the run and stop multiple teams in their tracks in that regard and collapse the pocket over and over? Sure, but it’d be nice to have a guy who doesn’t look like a giraffe chasing a qb at times. Stats don’t tell the whole story for Cox but I’d still like to see him gett more sacks than a guy he had probably 600 more snaps than, it’s not like he didn’t have more chances. I’m sure he wants more sacks too and would probably agree with me if he were honest. He had more chances and missed, that’s a fact. Needs to move better laterally after he penetrates. Double teams can be a big reason for the lack of sacks too but I still don’t think any of it’s a good excuse for a guy with his ability and the amount of chances he gets yearly here. Jernigan did well and it was his rookie season, Cox was in his 3rd season on a 2nd year defense. He needs more sacks.
87 TypicalDouche said at 2:38 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Go watch more Eagles football then buddy because you are totally misinformed with your posts. You know the defense the Eagles run yet its no excuse for Cox to not have more sacks. LOL what a joke.
88 unhinged said at 2:59 AM on July 18th, 2015:
In the Eagles current defensive lineup, one could argue that Cox pushing to accumulate more sacks would mean more linebackers engaged by OL, and fewer contributions from other DL. Cox’s maximum value is as a major disruptor that opens doors for Logan and Curry and Barwin and Graham. Giraffe? That’s just ignorant.
89 EAGLES said at 2:12 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Jernigan was explosive in his limited action. According to Pro Football Focus (PFF), he was the NFL’s second-best defensive end in a 3-4 system in pass-rush productivity (trailing only Houston’s J.J. Watt), and sixth-best against the run. I think you’re underrating Jernigan.
90 TypicalDouche said at 2:15 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Go look up overall rankings of 3-4 DEs because theres no point to go back and fourth for specific ratings. Cox trailed only Watt in 3-4 DE rankings, followed by Richardson and Wilkerson from the Jets. Enough said.
91 MattE said at 1:54 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Total Guaranteed Money Rankings:
3-4 DE 1) $4.5 mill/year/Cam Jordan 2) $3.4mill/year/J.J. Watt 3) $3.4mill/year/Calais Campbell…..so… if Cox got $5mill/year*6 years = $30mill guaranteed.
Random Fact: Do you know who is the highest guaranteed $/yr 3-4 OLB is? (Hint: It’s not Justin Houston).
92 SteveH said at 2:32 PM on July 17th, 2015:
The thing that sticks out the most to me through the highlight film is what a specimen Cox is. He has it all; size, power and speed. There are plays where he’s just unmovable because of his ability to anchor with size, there are plays where he just overpowers anyone in his way with strength, and there are plays where he chases things down with crazy speed for a big man.
I hope we can lock him up, but we have so many players with big contracts coming up… Obviously Cox is a priority guy, but I hope his deal isn’t too prohibitive.
93 Kelce's Beard said at 2:58 PM on July 17th, 2015:
A few cap-considerations:
– QB is the reason we still have cap room; this is first and foremost priority. I believe I speak for everyone that it would be a blessing for Bradford to go off and earn $18-22M /yr from us going into the end of this decade. Worst-case scenario, he’s gone and Sanchez or a cheap rookie are our best hope
– after 2015, Demarco’s cap hit is $8M–$9M–$9M–$9M from ’16-’19, as his contract stands. Mathews is $4M–$5M on current contract; Sproles $4.5M in 2016. That is $16.5M in 2016 at RB; I can’t imagine all 3 stay at that price? Unless it is the high water mark for a position Kelly values highly. I see us getting younger and cheaper after Murray sooner rather than later.
– Ertz signed through 2016; likely extension same time as Cox. Julius Thomas just signed with JAX for 5/$46M($21M). Greg Olson just signed a 3/$22.5(12M) extension in March. So not breaking bank.
– Clearly Guard is not getting big money under Chip
– Peters signed (9.3–11.2–11.25) until ’18, Kelce until ’20 (~$6M/$7M each year), and Lane signed until ’16. So now we have Cox, Ertz, and LJ (+ QB!) needing $ either during or after ’16
– Aside from Cox, no other DL has potential of breaking bank.
– Barwin and Graham signed through ’18, with a high point cap-wise in ’18 ($17.5M combined). Not bad for starting OLBs in 34. I assume if MS2 plays and earns pay, Barwin or Graham are gone after 2017.
– ILBs are cheap until Kiko or Hicks (?) get contract. I doubt MK breaks bank
– DBs seem set; balance of Jenkins + Maxwell and plenty of young, cheap players. Doubt another FA comes available like McCourty.
All that to say, no worries about $ needed to sign Cox. The superstar gets paid. And cap should be $150 in 2016, maybe $160 in 2017
94 Nicky Puffy CoatS said at 9:00 PM on July 21st, 2015:
And I’d be shocked if the cap isn’t $153-155mil next year and $165ish in 2017. Those increases right there eat what Bradford’s cap hit would be in each of those years should he earn such an extension. Of course, Bradford’s people are aware of those increases and are taking it under consideration in gambling on no new deal right now.
95 RobNE said at 3:28 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Is the Brady ruling coming down today? what’s the predictions. I hope Goddell increases it to a one year ban.
96 the DONALD said at 3:42 PM on July 17th, 2015:
maybe 2 games.. id say no games though.. beater McHardy went down 6 games..
97 anon said at 5:35 PM on July 17th, 2015:
be he missed all of last season. it’ll be interesting i’d like brady to be out 4 games just because its the pats
98 T_S_O_P said at 5:03 PM on July 17th, 2015:
After Watt the gap is large.
99 ACViking said at 5:17 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Here’s a DE who put up some of the best numbers you’ll see in a 2-gap 3-4 defensive scheme.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MarsLe00.htm
Of course it helped to be playing in front of King Kong and in a scheme designed by Einstein. Though he was very good in his own right.
________________
Watt has no King Kong or Einstein helping him. And he’s the most dominant defensive player in the NFL.
Seems Cox would benefit from playing with a ROLB who presents the threat of a speed rush to go with bull rush (and maybe some other more effective moves).
Of course, who wouldn’t.
100 SteveH said at 7:18 PM on July 18th, 2015:
Didn’t Bruce Smith play end in a 3-4 as well? He was a monster too, he’s right up there as one of the best pass rushers of all time.
101 Joe Minx said at 6:23 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Reports say David Yankey may be on the roster bubble in Minnesota. Any interest if cut?
102 TypicalDouche said at 6:31 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Not in the Eagles scheme. He is more of a lead footed power blocker, wouldn’t really fit in the zone blocking up tempo scheme of the Eagles.
103 anon said at 7:54 PM on July 17th, 2015:
aj green to dthomas: “thank you”. so glad we don’t have top 10 WRs that need a pay day. Also Miles Austin or Reggie Wayne, who would you prefer. I think austin has more in the tank b/c he’s got red zone, but as far as mentoring and stuff….
104 76mustang said at 8:33 PM on July 17th, 2015:
Don’t think Reggie Wayne would fare well in the cold weather on grass – he was noticeable slower on turf this past season – Miles survived Cleveland outdoors and contributed, think he’ll be a good pickup for the Eagles this season.
105 Media Mike said at 9:17 AM on July 18th, 2015:
Is “not Riley Cooper” a choice?
106 Jernst said at 1:41 PM on July 20th, 2015:
Not sure how much Wayne has left in the tank. You’d have to wonder how he’d adjust to a less than ideal QB situation. He’s played his entire career with either Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck. Could be a situation where you’re paying not only for past performance, but the performance bump that accompanies playing with those caliber of QBs.
I think the ideal landing spot for Wayne is in NE. He’d have Brady throwing him the ball and he’d only have to beat out the garbage they have at the back end of their WR corps, which is truly bottom rung.
Here, he’d be behind Matthews and Algholor for sure, and probably Huff and possibly even Riley Cooper who apparently plays a split out version of a LT in our system. I think Austin’s major concerns are more health/Hamstring related more than anything. He’s got plenty left in the tank, played reasonably well in Clevelands black hole of an offense. And, he provides the redzone and move the chains on third down with steady hands and strength that we’ve lacked since Avant was playing for Reid. I think Miles will surprise people by being a good 3rd down chain mover and red zone target this year.
107 Gary Barnes said at 9:13 AM on July 18th, 2015:
Chip & the Eagles better keep Cox…if they do not they are idiots and will show clearly they do not believe their own rhetoric. Cox is the consummate pro. He buys in fully with the program. His teammates and coaches love him. He is a high skilled and powerful player. It will be a very interesting test case of Kelly’s approach also because he did not draft Cox. Many of Reid’s players have been shown the door – DJax, Shady, Foles, Maclin, Avant, Allen, Cole, Herremans, Mathis etc. and rumors have flown all off-season about Kendricks being dangled as trade bait.
108 Media Mike said at 9:16 AM on July 18th, 2015:
The only “if” with keeping Cox is after next year’s option year and a possible franchise tag in 2017 is “if” he gets a sense from his agent that a 4-3 team would pay him significantly more money that the Eagles are offering. D3 correctly pointed out earlier that Cox really isn’t a concern in terms of stays / problems with staying until the end of the 2016 season.
109 Gary Barnes said at 9:40 AM on July 18th, 2015:
I highly doubt that is the only possible “if” in regards to Cox. The point is, unless something crazy happens with Cox or the Eagles, Cox is the epitome of the player Kelly has stated he wants on his team to build around. If, come contract time, Kelly and the Eagles balk at paying Cox the market rate or have allowed their cap discipline to lapse, thus not having enough $$ to extend him, then we’ll see if the emperor is wearing any clothes. Cox is the strongest test case of Kelly’s philosophy. Kelly, so far, has overpaid for Murray, Bradford and Maxwell; we’ll have to see if the cap spending comes back to haunt him or not when young studs like Cox are ready to get paid.
110 Media Mike said at 9:45 AM on July 18th, 2015:
Would you concede that “market” for a 3-4 DE is different than “market” for a 4-3 DT? Every player has a price that you have to walk away from if somebody else is willing to pay it.
And they can still tag Cox for a decent price in 2017 and an ok one in 2018 if need be.
111 Gary Barnes said at 1:48 PM on July 18th, 2015:
Sure, good point about the market value differences, but again Cox checks off all the Kelly parameters for being a special player & character on and off the field. If Cox asks for market rate or higher once his deal is up or during negotiations prior to that, which is likely and not out of bounds IMO, it will be very interesting to see if Kelly is willing to pay to keep him.
112 D3FB said at 10:32 AM on July 18th, 2015:
Once again I must remind people that it will be TWO years before the Cox contract ends. You still have the option of the tag after that point.
This isn’t a situation where Cox just refused to a long term extension and is playing ou the year on the tag.
We’re a long long ways off from any kind of resolution on the matter, so fretting about it makes little sense.
THE EAGLES WILL HAVE FAILED IF THEY DON”T DRAFT NICK CHUBB is about as preposterous of a statement.
It does not make any sense for either the team or the player to sign an extension at present.
113 Gary Barnes said at 1:45 PM on July 18th, 2015:
I’m sorry to have missed your previous lectures of wisdom on this important topic. Your very condescending tone notwithstanding, you failed to realize I was NOT talking about now, was NOT fretting about anything, KNOW what Cox’s contract situation is and NEVER advocated anywhere that they or Cox extend the contract now.
As I said, COME CONTRACT TIME, which means when Cox’s contract is up, we will test the reality of Kelly’s approach and rhetoric unless something crazy happens with Cox or Kelly or the Eagles. It will be very interesting to see what happens.
114 D3FB said at 4:20 PM on July 18th, 2015:
“If Kelly doesn’t resign a player he’s an idiot”
“The most likely reason he wouldn’t do that would be not paying market rate or they’ve messed up the salary cap”
“Return to hypothesis, that if Chip doesn’t resign Cox, he’s a massive fraud”
“He overpaid for Maxwell, Murray, and Bradford”
-Using IF… THEN statements to make sweeping negative generalizations about the future is fretting.
-He overpaid for Maxwell, but not catastrophically so. -He paid less than market value for Murray, which you seem to deem important.
-He didn’t set Sam Bradford’s salary, and trade compensation is completely irrelevant in regards to his management of the cap.
-The cap is going up. The Eagles even under the first offseason of chip still have a large amount of cap room left, so to posit that for some reason this is going to change, based on no real precedent, is silly
-Cox is a very good player, but there’s a metric ton of arguments that I can make that his output/relative to potential cost is minimized by the system we play. They aren’t particularly hard to make.
-That being said they’ll have the money to resign him.
-So this won’t be a “naked emperor” situation, if Chip doesn’t resign him. It will be about output relative to cost.
115 wee2424 said at 5:58 PM on July 18th, 2015:
That is what worries me. A 4-3 team willing to offer alot more then we would. We feared it would happen with BG. Obviously it didn’t. The real question is, does Cox want to play in a 4-3 that would more fully utilize his strengths?
116 Media Mike said at 6:00 PM on July 18th, 2015:
And where I feel bad for Cox is that he’s not getting the pro bowl recognition yet. I hope that he doesn’t feel a move to a 4-3 system is necessary for him to get the proper credit for his high level of play.
117 wee2424 said at 6:06 PM on July 18th, 2015:
With the million articles written about him not getting into the Pro bowl I think many of people have taken notice. Expect the announcers to talk about him more during the games as well. I fully expect him to be in it next year.
I don’t see him as someone that really wraps himself in the Pro bowl thing that much. However he does seem as someone that wants to really do the best he possibly can, and I think it may be safe to say he can do that in an attacking 4-3.
118 tomw said at 11:28 AM on July 18th, 2015:
They did resign Brandon Graham . So, maybe they will be smart enough to do the same for Cox . Just need to do that before he becomes a free agent.
119 Gary Barnes said at 1:54 PM on July 18th, 2015:
Good point, Graham is also a Reid player and even further one that never started. It was definitely out of step IMO with what I thought was Kelly’s normal approach. Therefore, that is evidence he can think outside the lines of his own philosophy if he feels it needs to be done and it helps the team. He obviously believes Graham brings a lot of value. I’m not sure I agree, but if Kelly feels the same way about Cox and does what it takes to keep him, I think we’ll all be happy.
120 unhinged said at 3:46 PM on July 18th, 2015:
I think money is a more key element to Kelly’s approach than you are considering. The idea that Kelly is hell-bent on moving out all of Reid’s players because they were Reid’s players is off the point, I think. He wanted to hold onto Maclin, he balked at giving up Foles, he gave Allen every opportunity to win his job, and if Kendricks is traded, I also think that will be more about revenue allocation than about the fact that MK was a Reid draft pick.
121 Jernst said at 1:31 PM on July 20th, 2015:
Many of the Reid players let go were also either poor scheme fits (DeSean, Foles, Cole), or on their last leg anyways, with hefty contracts (Herremans, Cole, Mathis), or some combination of the two (McCoy). Plus, Chip raves about Kelce, Celek, Ryans, Cox and Peters. He was willing to give Maclin $10mil per year. He started Herremans, Mathis and Cole for two years.
Definitely not a thing he has against Reid players just because, it’s just the natural outcome of changing coaching philosophies. It’s just inevitable that there’d be some hold overs that didn’t fit the new scheme, that some players would have old contracts given out by the other regime that didn’t mesh with the new organizational philosophy on resource allocation, and that some players would get old and move on.
122 wee2424 said at 5:39 PM on July 18th, 2015:
Why is resigning Graham outside of his philosophy?
123 Jernst said at 1:25 PM on July 20th, 2015:
Graham doesn’t fit Kelly’s measurables, but there also was very little to nothing available that did. They seemed happy to let Graham test the FA market and only resigned him when he found it kind of bare. Plus they signed him to a fairly modest deal for an OLB/DE. I think if Chip had his way he’d upgrade Graham in a heartbeat.
But, with MSII and no other viable OLB on the team, little to nothing available in FA and a host of other areas where money needed to be spent, Chip probably felt like a modest deal for Graham was the best of a bunch of less than ideal options.
I think he still has his philosophy, but he’s smart enough to realize that you can’t be so rigid that you go to battle empty handed just because you want to adhere to your positional philosophy so bad. Chip will make some concesions and compromises when he has to, but he won’t make many of them (as he always says, if you start making exceptions at DT, MLB, S, ect, then you have a 275 lb DT, with a 220 lb MLB and a 180 lb S behind him and you start getting run over), and he’ll be looking to upgrade Graham any chance he gets unless Graham really becomes a star.
124 wee2424 said at 5:33 PM on July 18th, 2015:
You have to remember that Maclin, Allen and BG were also resigned under Kelly. Thornton signed his new tender as well.
Maclin wasn’t shown the door, he opened the door and walked out.
Some people make it seem like Kelly is getting rid of Reid’s player just because. It’s not the case at all. He gushes over Celek and Ryan’s whom were drafted by Reid or traded for by Reid.
125 Jernst said at 1:18 PM on July 20th, 2015:
I remember hearing some whispers that there was some bad blood between Maclin and Jackson, but I don’t remember ever hearing that he straight up said he wouldn’t return if Jackson was still here. That’s very interesting if true. I wonder what the issue really was.
126 wee2424 said at 9:40 AM on July 21st, 2015:
Yeah. I can’t remember the article but it was from a seemingly reliable source. After work I will try and find it.
I just think Jackson and Maclins personalities crashed and Maclin may have felt that he couldn’t hit his ceiling with Jackson there.
First part definitely had something to do with it, second part I just guessed.
127 soundbonz said at 10:32 AM on July 18th, 2015:
I was late to the table appreciating Fletcher Cox. Always put him in that category of good but not great player. But he was a disruptive player last season. Happy to be wrong about a guy. Pay the Man!
128 Philadelphia Eagles: What about Fletcher Cox? said at 2:20 PM on July 18th, 2015:
[…] Marcus Mariota. That might say more about how much Kelly loves Mariota than anything else, but I’m with Tommy Lawlor on this one: Cox is a guy the Eagles have to pay. I mean, their fifth-lowest yards per carry allowed (3.7) last […]
129 wee2424 said at 2:27 PM on July 18th, 2015:
http://www.phillyvoice.com/10-reasons-cowboys-will-be-dumpster-fire-season/
Really interesting facts about the Cowboys OL. Possible to say we even have thought about them as better then what they really are.
130 Media Mike said at 5:52 PM on July 18th, 2015:
Kempski destroyed them!
131 wee2424 said at 6:10 PM on July 18th, 2015:
Yeah he did. I sent the article to my father in law who was born and raised in Dallas and is an avid Cowboy fan.
I know he won’t respond. He won’t know what to say, because those Dallas fans really and truly believe in their heart that their OL is the best ever.
132 GEAGLE said at 5:02 PM on July 18th, 2015:
Losing Fletcher is nothing to worry about., paying him is inevitable
133 Jernst said at 12:18 PM on July 20th, 2015:
I think we’ll keep Thornton with a modest contract. The only reason we move on from him is if we upgrade the position substantially. Thornton won’t command much money on the open market. 3-4, 2-gapping DEs that play the run reasonably well, but fail to generate much pass rush don’t typically break the bank. $3 mil per year is probably all it would take. So, only reason we lose Ced is if we want to move on from him and upgrade.
I agree, though, that Curry is going to get re-upped. A DE in a 3-4 that can generate 10 sacks in limited action is extremely valuable. And, without a true Demarcus Ware type stud pass rusher, it would seem really stupid to let him get away. I hope he gets a bit better at 2-gapping (although, he’ll never be ideal), and shows that he can excell as an OLB pass rusher and get on the field even more. His first step is insane. I really hope we lock him up long term and get to watch him abuse QBs for a few more years.
134 Emmitt Smith Isn't Buying the Eagles as NFC East Favorites said at 8:12 AM on July 19th, 2015:
[…] Good Sign for Cox – Tommy Lawlor of IgglesBlitz.com […]
135 Jernst said at 12:13 PM on July 20th, 2015:
When’s the last time the Eagles let a budding star leave in FA? Not talking about cutting or trading, not talking about not resigning someone like Westbrook or Vincent, who were clearly on their last legs, but the last star that left town because the money wasn’t there.
I can’t think of many in recent memory. Maclin bolted this year for an extra million a year and there’s very few fans that seemed to be devastated by his departure. Nice player, but not a star that you want to pay top 5 money to. Before that, there was the Dawkins debocle, but other than that, I can’t really think of one. Trotter in 2003, where we tried to franchise tag him and he went ballistic. And, Reggie White back in the early 90’s followed by the mass exodus of loyal Buddy Ryan defensive stars.
The point being, that, this teams FO seems to lock up it’s best players and keep them around, and they seem to always manage the cap in a way where we have the money to sign whoever we want. We never HAVE to cut someone that’s still playing at a high level simply because of the cap implications. If Cox continues to play well, and wants to resign here, we will resign him. But, if we don’t resign him, I can guarantee not having the cap room will not be the reason why.
136 Google said at 3:07 PM on July 22nd, 2015:
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