Reflections on Chip’s Failure
Posted: December 30th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 721 Comments »My buddy Chuck Stanley asked me if I wanted to come on his podcast (EaglesFancast) last night to talk about the firing of Chip Kelly. I said yes, of course. You just don’t say no to Chuck. I didn’t have much time to prepare my thoughts so I was essentially thinking out loud for much of the podcast.
One idea really struck me as I was talking to Chuck and Todd. Remember the story about Jeff Lurie giving the talk to the Eagles about playing as 53 angry men? That got them fired up and helped them to play well at New England. Great story. Cool move by the owner.
But wait…why did the owner have to give that talk?
Isn’t that the coach’s job?
I think Chip Kelly failed to understand the psychology it takes to be a great coach in the NFL. John Madden, Bill Walsh, Bill Parcells and Jimmy Johnson all knew how to motivate their players. They knew when to be nice and when to be mean. They understood that football players are people. They have to be motivated.
I think Chip too often made assumptions about his players. He trusted them to motivate themselves. After all, these were successful men who were succeeding in an incredibly tough profession. Is there really anything you need to say to a veteran like Malcolm Jenkins or Brent Celek to get him to do what is needed?
Chip’s thinking is somewhat logical, but misses some key points. Football is a game of emotion. This isn’t chess. Players carry personalities, egos and feelings onto the field with them. If you can tap into that, you can gain an advantage. I think Pat Shurmur said something great a few weeks back that we often overlook. He joked that football is a game made up of “PE majors”. Football is coached and played by jocks and there is a primal element to the game that shouldn’t be ignored. Emotions matter. Mind games have a purpose.
Football is also a team game. There is a psyche to each team. The 2008 Eagles were only 9-6-1, but they were tough. The 2009 team went 11-5, but were more fragile. You couldn’t handle those teams exactly alike. They were different, for various reasons. There was a vibe to the 2013 that wasn’t present on this year’s squad. Each group needed to be handled differently. I’m not sure Chip fully understood that.
Don’t read this as a desire for the Eagles to get a rah-rah coach. We all love the story of Ray Rhodes getting the Eagles fired up to play the Cowboys in 1995, but speeches like that are anomalies. I’m talking about psychology. Understanding the range of emotions and how to use all of them. Jimmy Johnson cut or traded a lot of guys so his players were constantly fearing for their jobs. Except for a few stars, most players feared him. Parcells loved mind games. He would talk trash to his players to bring out the best in them. The first Gatorade shower wasn’t a celebration, but was in fact Giants NT Jim Burt’s way of getting back at Parcells for how he treated him in the week leading up to that game. Madden kept his players happy by having a relaxed environment and letting them be themselves. His players loved that simplistic style and it brought out the best in them. He would be tough on them at times to keep them from getting into a complete comfort zone.
Lurie knew enough to give the 53 angry men speech. Chip was more focused on getting better execution from his players. Sometimes the way to do that is to forget logic and play the emotion card.
One other huge issue for Chip was relationships. Go back to December 2011. The Eagles “Dream Team” is wrapping up an underwhelming 8-8 season. There is some outside pressure on Lurie to fire Andy Reid. Lurie sticks with him for one more year. Everyone loved Big Red and wanted to see him end things on an up note. Everyone wanted him to succeed. The 2012 season was a disaster. Reid was fired, but even that was a celebration of his time with the Eagles. Everyone loved Andy.
When Reid was hired the Eagles had a huge hole at MLB. Jeremiah Trotter was on the roster, but had barely played any defensive snaps as a rookie. He looked like a draft bust in the making. Reid and Jim Johnson drafted Barry Gardner to challenge for the MLB role. Trotter came alive in the new scheme. He won the starting job and was terrific as the starter from 1999-2001. Then Trot hit free agency.
Trotter thought he was Ray Lewis good and wanted Ray Lewis money. The Eagles were not going to pay huge money to a LB. They wanted to pay him good money, but nothing close to what he wanted. Trot went to the NovaCare and confronted Reid at one point. Things were nasty. Trot then left in free agency and went to the rival Skins, who did pay him Ray Lewis type money. Trot got hurt while playing for the Skins. He then got a call from Andy. Reid told him to keep his spirits up, wished him well and just offered the best encouragement he could. Trotter figured out that the contract situation had just been business to Reid. That didn’t change the way the coach felt about his former player. That meant a lot to Trot. When the Skins cut him in the summer of 2004, Trot returned to Philly on a cheap deal. He ended up earning his starting job back and a fat contract in the future, but he came back for Reid more than anything. That relationship mattered.
I’m not trying to make Andy Reid sound like Mother Teresa. (Heck, I sometimes wonder if Mother Teresa was like Mother Teresa. There is no way even she could stand Cowboy fans, right?) The point is that Reid let his players know that he genuinely cared about them. It went beyond just football. They were more than disposable assets.
I think some people make too much of the talk about Chip and his former players. Those guys were let go and that hurt. Of course they weren’t happy with him. Go back to 2002 and ask Trot about Reid and I’m sure you’d get lots of nasty comments. Time changed that.
That said, I don’t think Chip developed good relationships with enough of his players, as well as the people around him. When things went bad for Andy, everyone went to bat for him. People wanted him to stay. When things started to get ugly for Chip, not many people were standing up for him. Relationships matter.
There are all kinds of little reasons things went wrong, but psychology and relationships are two of the big aspects for me.
*****
Here is a link to last night’s podcast where Chuck, Todd and I discussed the Chip Kelly firing and Eagles situation. Chuck and Todd are not analysts. They are fans and come at things from that point of view.
*****
Old friend Tyler Aston offered his thoughts on things. Follow him on Twitter if you don’t already.
My thoughts on last night, the '15 Eagles, Chip, Howie, Jeff, and synthetic debt obligations!! (I'm just kidding) https://t.co/VnWIuZhN08
— Tyler Aston (@Astonia67) December 30, 2015
*****
Sheil Kapadia wrote a great piece for ESPN with his thoughts on why Chip didn’t work out. That is must-read material.
Apparently we have no cap space…. Just great
Untrue.
Yeah I was told that by someone but I can see myself that is not true thanks 🙂
From what I can see we have almost $18M space but that’s without a QB. Tagging Bradford would wipe that out, so there would obviously have to be some shuffling if that were to take place.
most teams paying a QB are close to the cap.
If Howie was supposed to be a cap wizard, he wasn’t very good. Every player has dead money except Celek and Cox – and we can’t get rid of Cox. Celek is a savvy veteran and I wouldn’t want to lose him either, but with $5 mill freed up he might be gone. He and Cooper would give a savings of close to $8 mill.
We also might see some trades, so it’ll be interesting. I’m not a fan of Howie as a GM,
chip paid the price for howie’s contracts.
Partially, and I think most of it was Cooper’s contract. But CK lost the locker room and he couldn’t recover.
The big decision will obviously be the QB. If the new coach can get some talent on the OL, Murray, Mathews and Sproles can be quite effective. JM and Agoholor are talented.
I love McDermott, but Adam Gase or Josh McDaniels would be better for QB development.
I am afraid that since Chip is gone, then Sam Bradford won’t want to stay. Now we have to start over.
I said before this season, even if it sucked, if we got a franchise QB out of it then it would be worth whatever the record was. But now we probably lost that QB as well.
Well if he wants to leave I’m not going to tag him so he can walk, see what you can do in the draft, He’s not good enough for me to be at his mercy in negotiations
I f he signs a big contract with another team and we don’t sign big name free agents, at least we’ll get a third round compensatory pick for him.
Bradford is a middle-of-the-pack QB. Signing a guy like that to a huge, cap-crunching contract is a good way to shackle yourself to mediocrity for years. Just ask the Dolphins or Ravens.
Like if he wants huge contract the Browns can give him that no thank you here
Let me comfort you–Bradford ain’t no franchise QB. He’s average, his ceiling is average, he played average this year, next year he would only even be average too.
Maybe we can bring in Gase he can bring Alshon with him, focus on O Line in the draft
Repost from last article:
http://overthecap.com/salary-c…
$133mil of cap commitments and expected cap is ~$152mil.
Cap cut possibilities with savings:
Cooper – Save $2.9mil
Sproles – Save $3.5mil
DeMeco – Save $3.5mil
Celek – Save $5mil
Peters – Save $6.3mil
Sanchez – Save $3.5mil
obviously a lot of guys can be cut to save ~$1mil.
Key free agents:
Bradford, Thurmond, Carrol, Thornton, Curry.
We should bring back one of Thurmond or Carroll…depends if they like Rowe more at S or CB. Cooper is gone probably , Peters at this point is too unless he takes a cut, Curry has to come back if we go to 4-3 and then we trade Barwin otherwise he’s out. Probably don’t want to cut Sanchez when he might be our starter if we draft a QB
Think Sanchez has value at ~3.5mil as a backup QB if they let Bradford walk and go after a QB in the draft. If Bradford resigns then i cut Sanchez and add a rookie to back up from the draft.
Even if we resign Bradford I may still not cut Sanchez honeslty
3.5 mil for zero wins? No thanks! Plenty of guys out there to pick up for 1 mil or less to do the same thing!
look at the teams w/ backups playing this year and the quality of those backups — sanchize will get a job.
Not for $3.5 mil though
No to Sproles – he’s still one of the best performers we have on offense. Rework Celek to keep him. The rest can go
I’m figuring Celek, Cooper, Sanchez, and Ryans all get the axe.
Peters may get to stay if he moves to G, but they might cut him if they get another T in free agency or the draft. They might be able to get one picking somewhere around 10. I’d keep Sproles, he’s a true weapon still.
peters is here hes a lurie guy — interesting hes not media available
That is interesting. I haven’t gotten anything about what players are saying, but I’m not in market to get all that. Plus, haven’t been on Twitter today.
For jeebus sake, even Andy showed some fire after their win Sunday. Dancing around like a fat snowman, Kelly is like Darth Vader, more machine than man. Is it possible not to get some recycled failure and throw a lot of money at Bill Cowher? I know it’s not going to happen, I only wish.
Who doesn’t love a good Star Wars reference?
I just made the mistake of watching Revenge of the Sith to get ready to watch the new one. Damn, that one is harsh. “Hold me like you did by the lake in Naboo.”
Cowher’s been out of the game for years now. Not sure I trust that he’s still strong with the Force.
Not a fan of Cowher. It took him 16 years to get the title, and generally coaches that go to a 2nd team don’t win a superbowl.
This was a Howie hachet job. Chip made mistakes over the last year, but was forced out by Howie before he could fix things.
The fact that Howie & Donahoe were promoted on the press release shows this was planned. I hope we can all cheer Howie’s fantasy team.
I think Howie is slimy and I won’t be happy if he’s given the GM job again. I want a “football guy” in the front office. With that being said, I can’t think of many reasons to keep Chip. I didnt have any faith in him righting the ship.
Still, it’s hard to have much confidence in this organization when in-fighting and backstabbing exists in the front office.
Fuck ‘Football guys’ – GM is an entirely different skill set than people think, and one that having a background in football has little to impact in you having.
A football GM’s job is not to be a primary talent evaluator – its to run scouting staff, evaluate performance, combine a wide range of opinions and perspectives. It is forward cap planning, working in free agency and being able to retain the right players. Those aint ‘football’ skills, yes you need to understand the football picture but just because you can does not make you a good GM.
Howie managed cap and contracts excellently, retaining key players on submarket contracts and signing players into escapable contracts in FA (could cut Nnamdi after 2 years with little impact). He was able to turn a 4-3 1 gap defense to a 2 gap 3-4 pretty seamlessly.
As for draft he had some better than league average drafts over his period running the draft and seemed to have an effective handle on how the draft would play out and could trade up and down effectively.
Draft is so hard to pin down to 1 individual – Depends on Coaches evaluations, scout evaluations, background check guys, relationships with college coaches. Even then it is a huge projection. Take Marcus Smith – high end athlete, ex-QB, High character, football guy – Does that look like Howie’s MO from 2010-2012? Has Chips fingerprints all over it.
I really don’t understand the Howie hatred. Obviously without being inside the room it’s hard to draw definitive conclusions, but as he gained more power in the waning days of the Reid regime, the drafts got better. And as he lost power in the Kelly regime, they got worse. Lurie – who is in the room and knows better than any of us who’s responsible for what – clearly trusts and values him. I’m fine with him returning as GM.
Howie isn’t the savior. He has his flaws and honestly he might be a snake.
“might”
I reserve my own opinion until we get the full story which might be never.
I think Howie is that slimy guy who hard to fight his way to the top, but those guys tend to be good at their jobs as well.
they tend to look good but their toxicity can harm overall productivity: http://samples.sainsburysebooks.co.uk/9780470464588_sample_417526.pdf
Problem is people tend to over focus on the draft in the short term – and then specifically on the 1st round and assign all blame/glory to hitting on those top picks. This town being what it is he will get destroyed for Marcus Smith but take no credit for Cox/Johnson.
I doubt Smith is Howie’s pick. 2014 was the beginning of the end of Howie.
Nope, Lurie once called Roseman by far the top talent evaluator.in the building.
Think that does not mean what you think it means… think Lurie means he was the best at ranking the board, and combining opinions to come to a compound analysis of talent. Not going out and being a primary scout.
I do agree with the sentiment. Meathead or egghead, just get someone good.
Football guys can be successful. Cap guys can be successful. GMs with complete authority that have the ability to fire the HC can be successful. HCs with full personnel control can be successful.
Lurie needs to worry less about the “structure” of the organization and more about the people skills and ability to recognize football character in the people he hires. Kelly has his strong points but he doesn’t have the people skills. Roseman is generally competent in his job and while he has had his issues with HCs and other personnel guys seems to be liked by the players(all the former players thanked Howie even when they were dissing Chip) and at least knew enough to butter up the owner. Really both of them should be gone and Lurie should focus on hiring a HC and GM that have people skills and the abilty to respect each other and work together and not play political power games.
former players w/ big back end contracts that they new got paid on thanked howie. but those k’s get you cut.
Chip’s mistakes are self-inflicted. I’m glad the arrogant prick is gone.
Howie wasn’t promoted on the press release.
Why would you? Depends on who you get as a Head Coach and his demands. If Payton has a GM he wants to work with and you have no issues with you hire him.
If you hire a young Coordinator then Howie is the GM.
Pointless to define anything at this point.
I’m sure Kelly will face Reid in the Super Bowl one day. You know, just to shove it up our asses.
Great post Tommy. I think the bit about not getting that players are not interchangeable chess pieces is the biggest problem Chip had. He’s a really smart guy and very capable when it comes to scheming up plays, but clearly leaves something to be desired when it comes to handling the psychological aspect when things go wrong. For all his faults, Reid was a guy that was loved by his players and could count on them to have his back when things got rough. Can’t say that about Chip.
great article tommy. The posters on here that know me well enough here have probably pieced together that I’m a huge nerd. In the early 2000’s there was a show called Battlestar Gallactica (my favorite sci-fi show of all time). After a disastrous mission a new captain died and nearly lost the ship in the process of some serious mistakes. The next man up was asked by the admiral why he thought the late captain failed. To paraphrase his response:
” * name of the previous captain (who was promoted from head engineer)* was a brilliant man who knew the *ship name* better than anyone. But he didn’t realize being a captain isn’t about the ship, it’s about people.”
Well it was also along the lines of he was used to working with machines not people, but you get the gist.
Or “children” and not “men”.
well ironically Tommy is saying that it was his belief that the players were men (and thus able to motivate themselves) that helped turn the situation bad.
I get the point that people say that all his focus on people sticking to a strict routine and sleeping X hours a night is controlling, but personally having seen that approach in other sports I take that as more of a “these scientists have studied this shit for years and this is what they say works, and not all of it is common sense” angle rather than “I don’t trust you not to screw your body up when you’re at home”.
There is science and there is junk science. Taking some studies and drawing up a bunch of authoritarian rules that aren’t proven to help is junk. The media generally abuses science eye-rollingly when it “cites” studies, making terrible extrapolations and claims that are far outside the scope of the data. There has been some successful work on recovery; the Spurs have used that well and I understand the information comes from futbol players.
This is true, and of course unless you’re going to go through the studies with the scientists themselves then it’s always going to come down to taking somebody’s word for it; I was just making the point that not all of Kelly’s ideas were just about control and treating people as “children”, and as you say some sports teams have put some of the science to good use – I think particularly of the SKY cycling team who go to ridiculous lengths to help their riders recover and have consistent environments from day to day (e.g. they take their own bedding that they use every night at whichever hotel they have been allocated).
Great show, great quote !
ARK IS A CYLON! ARKKKKK IS A CYLONNNNNNNN
He’s FRACKING LYING everyone! There’s something wrong with the test.
BTW that was an excellent article. It’s really cool that you also take part in the discussionshort here as well
Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo 1m1 minute ago
Browns say Manziel is undergoing evaluation for a possible concussion
Hit his head while celebrating Chip’s release?
I miss Sheil. ESPN needs to reassign him or make him one of their feature guys.
His all-22 stuff was awesome. We were fortunate to have him here.
Just an all around thoughtful and insightful writer.
Everything was looking great for the Eagles until he deserted us. I lay the blame squarely on his shoulders!
A whole different tone to this now…
Should be either Lurie or Roseman’s head there.
so assuming we don’t beat the giants and we end up with a pick somewhere near 10 . . . trade down? we sure could use some picks
Billy Davis doesn’t think he’ll be retained as defensive coordinator. – kempski
that makes everyone
Cooper next please
Shocking…
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
1m1 minute ago
The #Eagles brain trust, including Howie Roseman, have spent the morning researching coaching candidates and making calls. A headstart.
unbelievable.
He’s the executive VP of football operations. You shouldn’t be surprised by this.
i would have thought there would have been more planning ahead of chip getting released.
I’m sure some legwork has been done, but you can’t necessarily call around to others asking about potential coaches when it’s no sure thing that Kelly would be fired.
Probably doesn’t paint you in a good light to the next guy if you are calling him about a job while some other sucker is derping around at practice, doing the job.
It’s a business, I think these guys understand that.
I assume they want to be first in line to interview McDermott during Panthers round 1 bye week
might be right
This is why you make the move now. They obviously have some names in mind. If they really want Hue Jackson, they can interview him right away and offer him the job.
my ignorant choice
I don’t think Cincy will have a bye, so you won’t be able to interview him until they’re eliminated from the playoffs.
True. They can get Gase, though. However, they will have to satisfy the Rooney rule. Maybe Duce gets an interview? A few of the writers have said that Lurie thinks very highly of him.
so in two weeks?
Sheeyit, “google” isn’t really researching.
A lot of good football people have left under Howie’s watch. A bit disconcerting.
name a few.
Tom Gamble biggest of all. Marynowitz was an up and comer, Tom Heckert, Jason Licht, Louis Riddick, Grigson, even Banner and Reid. and now the Chipper.
read GR’s post. Chip isn’t a football guy. He’s an X’s and O’s guy that hated people.
Yea but what have these great football guys done since they left
Andy- Same ol Andy (Love him but will never win SB)
Heckert- ummmm
Grigson- Hows Indy doing?
Gamble- MIA
Riddick- Passive aggressive convoluted tweeter
Banner- lol
I don’t know about that.
Riddick – Can’t get a job in the NFL and is left pontificating on ESPN and twitter.
Grigson – Indy fans hate him and want him fired. Thing is I wouldn’t be surprised if he returned to Eagles. Of all the ex-personnel guys, he and Roseman seemed to have best relationship.
Heckert – Has issues with alcohol and the best he’s done after being fired by ATL is director of pro personnel.
Veach – He was always Reid’s guy so I don’t know if you can directly tie him leaving to Roseman.
Gamble – Always overrated IMO. The guy was always the media’s
“premier GM candidate” for about 10 years and no one ever hired him for that role.
the unfortunate thing is we will probably destroy the giants and drop 10 spots in the draft now
our defense sucks don’t sweat it
lurie conference in a few minutes. i’m watching on PE.com
.HOWIE is the new GM….. Yikes
surprised?
yes. i thought he’d have the power but not the title
it’s probably…definitely better that it be clear at least. Howie is your boss, coach. Not, “This is Howie, he will always forever be your rival for my love, with unknown and unofficial powers, and his motives may or may not align with your own.”
At least we know he will do his best to facilitate his coach’s success (because it’s his coach, his ass on the line). He seems to get exactly what his coach is looking for.
I don’t know it officially, but I believe it to be the case… Normally a New GM is hired, who then will help hire the coach.. The fact that we are embarking in a coaching search before a GM search tells us HOWIE is the GMS, because any coaching candidate has to know what GM he will work with before he accepts the job.
..
So HOWIE is the GM! And he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. I’m afraid he can attract a good coach from the pro circle
howie would have to be gone for a new gm to even want to come here-can’t have someone second guessing you all the time.
Some GMs have HC hiring authority. Some don’t. It varies from team to team.
Still a coach will need to know who the GM is before he takes the job, so who we hire will have to agree to work with HOWIE
That’s not definitive.
Watch…
you dont know shit. shut the fukc up You run your mouth like you know something and you are just full of shit.
As I was saying….
Jason La Canfora
@JasonLaCanfora
7s7 seconds ago
Should the Colts make sweeping changes, GM Ryan Grigson is still very highly thought of by Eagles brass in evaluating capacity
God no
Same idiot who thought washed up Herremans could be signed to protect Luck on a team that was supposed to contend. NO THANKS
you mean the team that’s run through 4qbs this year? all those wrs don’t really matter.
Hey all you suckers who called me a troll and called me Howie Roseman and totally discredited me by calling me a troll. You are discredited. You are wrong I am right AGAIN.
Howie stfu you snake
Press conference starting soon Howie. You should be there.
that’s exactly what howie would say, howie
I drink your MILKSHAKE!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m92bwcIAmI1ru96bco1_1280.jpg
So, are you still going to troll now that you got what you wanted or…?
Unfortunately, not what we all want.
I would feel much better if HOWIE was helping LURIE hire a new GM, and then the new GM helps hire a coach…. The fact THAT they are going straight for a coach hire tells us HOWIE is the GM… Without a new GM, how can I expect things to get better?
hire the coach
hire the GM
hire new personal guy
No, a coach has to know who his GM will be before he accepts a coaching job unfortunately
I would feel uneasy if I had to work with Howie or maybe that’s just Chip
well it ain’t just chip, we’ve seen a bit of a pattern
That’s what I worry about. HOWIE can probably get a college coach, but his reputation isn’t great in NFL circles
Apparently they loved Brian Kelly 3 years ago… I will lose it if they hire a,college coach again
what about dude from OU?
I am fine with Howie the GM.
He just said howie is accountable for the personenell department
noice. I am gonna go back and watch in a bit.
Did he just call Eskin “Howie”?
The positive is they just did a coach Hire 3 years ago, and can compare their opinions at the time with how each candidate played out these past 3 years… Hopefully they learned a thing or two from the last hire
Lurie just straight up cut Chip’s ass. Good job.
yup
Yup, no offer to give up personnel…if LURIE is even telling the truth
can’t see him lying, but maybe.
he’s the owner. no need to lie
Doesn’t jive with a few reports, but Lurie probably looks better if he tried to strip control first, so I tend to believe this.
Lurie’s words or Chip’s. Pick your poison
didn’t even try to shop him around or offer him a pay cut? Damn.
Lurie going to be like, “we received no interest in Chip”
Cold
next there’s gonna be a NJ.com article that chip was a gangbanger
Oregon Crips
chip celly
He’s a blood, hence the Jaccpot beef.
Les Bowen
@LesBowen
21s21 seconds ago
Lurie: want to understand what players felt was lacking, get a feel for what leadership like in today’s world.
0 retweets
0 likes
Jason La Canfora
@JasonLaCanfora
13s14 seconds ago
Lurie calls issues between Kelly and players “one of many factors” in the decision
1 retweet
0 likes
Chip must have been doing a lot of shit wrong to make Lurie pull the trigger. Losing and games that were based on one or two plays might be the only factor.
jeff says more about trajectory not about losing lockerroom
Howie will not be GM. Will stay VP for now?
He is the GMl. Only called something else. No one will hold GM title… LURIE said decisipns will be a collaboration..
..
Sounds dumb to me,.
..
Basically HOWIE is the GM, but his reputation sucks so they call him something else and łet No one hold the GM title
yeah no one asked who will control draft / fa.
Josh Paunil
@JoshPaunil
12s12 seconds ago
Jeffrey Lurie: Howie Roseman will remain in his current position.
0 retweets
0 likes
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
21s21 seconds ago
#Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie said a collaborative approach is best to running a front office. Roseman will be accountable for personnel dept
Basically Roseman hires GM although it sounds like they may just continue with Donahoe in role
3 retweets
0 likes
roseman basically saying if you don’t win you’re gone.
You mean that Lurie said if Roseman doesn’t win, he’s gone?
sorry lurie basically saying that if coaches don’t win they are gone. said andy always followed up 8-8 with a winning season, until he didn’t. doesn’t seem like a lot of patience for a building process.
cant read you saying “everyone loved big red” — HE IS A JERK!!!! didn’t he constantly piss you off with his coaching decisions, his clock f-ups, his inane roster turnover, his receiver neglect, his LB neglect, his aligator arms, his snubbing the press with his arrogance??!!! WTF !! maybe the local drug and gun dealers loved him because he looked the other way from his sons .. oh what not fair???? bullcrap its fair because its a signal about who he is.
andy gave trotter hope???? WTF !!! HE LET TROTTER GO OVER MONEY MEANHWILE PAID HIMSELF PLENTY!!! and not having trotter I think imho cost us a super bowl !!! and then lowballed him to come back. bullcrap Tommy
I cant read this man.
Easy solution friend, don’t read then.
yep. for the first time I stopped reading ..had to walk away. breathe .. breathe
yep I was fine with andy until he was losing control and still shitttting on us
lol Woosahh buddy. Try to take a breath and recollect yourself.
yep im too all wound up by our birds and this volatility.
breath-ing .. walk-ing ..
time to take break.
graci!
got it. we are left to celebrate our “almosts”.
..
well as far as almosts go I ama HUGE Marv Levy fan. andy cant hold a candle to marv levy.
Chip’s trajectory was downwards. He made the playoffs and lost. He missed the playoffs then followed up with a losing season. Did I mention he gutted the team?
Andy’s trajectory was upwards and then a roller coaster throughout his time here.
Lurie is a gambler. Chip was also a gambler but he’s been losing more than he was winning in his gambles. It’s not shocking to wonder why Chip was cut.
LURIE just said they aren’t hiring a GM… HOWIE is the GM! But his reputation is too crappy to give him the official GM title
this whole freaking team and their semantics games
Yeah this stinks..back on the loser Hamster wheel we go..
still trying to outsmart the system
What coach worth a damn will sign up to coach Howies playërs when Howie’s name is trash in pro circles? Trying to be slick not giving him the GM title, coaching candidate will see right thru the bullshit.
..
HOWIE is im charge of Personnel department PERIOD… Call it whatever they want…. This is trash.
i mean chip earned getting fired but the next guy doesn’t have much of a chance with this nonsense.
Howie has a good rep in agent circles.. that means a lot. He had to clime over a lot of corpses (some of which he made) to get to the top – most of those who in the media slate him happen to fall into that group.
Howie is responsible for all of the best players on the team. Right? Why the hate?
I actually don’t mind him drafting for us, his back stabbing reputation ISNT well liked around the league. I worry he can’t attract a great coach, and I hate that LURIE is lying to our face acting like Howie ISNT the GM, and the pussy media lets him get away with it
right, cmon Jeff. Hire football people. Solid GM and Coach, this is nonsense. Retreads
Im trying to figure out what that is. So Tom is GM and Howie’s his boss? What title is Howie then or Toms director of operations still?
Lurie basically said that he gave Chip ability to hang himself, almost sounds like he was fired last year.
Awesome essay, Mr. Lawler. So much of what was visible and verifiable in the last 3 years had a mysterious allure: The music racket during prac…err, training, the navy seal, edge-of-tech-rehabbing, the non-stop pace at NCC, the smoothies and sleep monitoring and regular blood and urine testing….but when you eyeball the predictably erratic play on the field, you didn’t need to have a go-pro in the locker room to figure out something was amiss. Many of the armchair quarterbacks are explaining Kelly’s dismissal as a result of his mismanagement, but that doesn’t fit with the narrative that Jeff Lurie was behind. Lurie was fine with Kelly’s brain and risk-taking and his particularity regarding personnel and personalities. It was Kelly’s inability to translate his impressive vision into anything resembling continuity or growth. I personally wanted Kelly to get a 4th year to prove his mettle, but I’m guessing a patient owner did not hear what he needed to in order to stay with the program.
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
21s21 seconds ago
#Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie said a collaborative approach is best to running a front office. Roseman will be accountable for personnel dept
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
36s37 seconds ago
“I wanted to make Chip accountable for everything he wanted to happen. … That is what he insisted on.”
Yep, gave him just enough rope to hang himself with.
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Looking for a player’s coach — basically saying chip had no EQ and that was an outdated way of thinking.
Yup
I hope they don’t try to shoe horn in a specific type of guy. Just get the guy who is gonna do the best. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat.
Geoff Mosher @GeoffMosherNFL 1m1 minute ago
Jeff says next HC needs to open his heart and understand emotional intelligence. Clear shot at Chip’s dealing with his players.
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Are what?
Lurie doesn’t want to throw any players under the buss but he’s not thrilled with the talent on the team.
Dayum.
Lurie wants the best guy regardless of being a defensive/offensive guy. A leader that understands the players specifically if you want to piece together his words.
I’d give some of the best STs coaches a look. Fipp, Dave Toub, Rich Bassacia.
nah, that worked once, too risky
Sounds like Jeffrey didnt think chip was a good leader. Interesting question about why personnel guy not leading coach.
Chip pretty much hanged himself with his culture crap. It seems like players never gelled and truly brought into his “culture”.
not culture — chip wanted self motivating players — ignored that players are human
He didn’t even have a leaders council which every team has… Chip should be connected to his captains, who then keep the players in check… Zero accountability
think that’s the biggest thing to learn for chip — gotta get the eq part right. just b/c he doesn’t work that way doesn’t mean players don’t work that way.
When owners have to come talk to and motivate the team should have known then that coach was fired i guess.
ya I wasnt buying any of that stuff early on. I was wrong. When you lose a locker room, it really does matter. Sounds like he wasnt the warmest fella
pc over
If you want to know why Chip was fired listen to Lurie’s response about what he’s looking for in a new coach. Beyond the generalities, he listed four things, all of which I think he perceived as Kelly’s weaknesses.
could you mention them
I will when the transcript goes up…emotional intelligence and leadership style were two of them that I remember.
Lurie on what they’re looking for in coach: Smart, strategic thinker. Someone who interacts well with others. Understands fans/city…
Basically he’s looking for early Andy Reid.
Yes, I think the interacting with fans and understanding that responsibility was a shot at Chip; strategic thinker (short, medium, and long-term was also I think a shot a Chip trading away too much for Bradford.
1) Smart and strategic thinker
2) someone who interacts and communicates clearly without everyone around him
3) understands passion of fan base- that has to be “incorporated into your life and heart”
4) attention to detail
5) “open your heart to players and everyone you want to achieve peak performance”
I think the thing about interacting with the fans is BS. Just win, don’t pander to fanatics. They will come around if you do your job well.
Yea I know it’s bs. There’s more on that above.
Watch the Players play their asses off and spank the Giants to make chip look bad…. Only wins we get do more harm then good..
Hopefully Shurmur has the good sense to play the scrubs.
Should offer him a few extra thousand as a bonus to intentionally tank the game.
Just have Howie sitting at his desk on Sunday morning with a baseball bat…
Need to stop that from happening – all back ups need to play for ‘evaluation’.
For the record, Howie’s title not being General Manager has nothing to do with trying outsmart anyone or because his reputation is bad as GM. Making Roseman the GM would literally be a demotion. Despite what was said last year, VP of Football Operations is a higher ranked position than GM, coach etc. on all other teams in the league with one
Lol HOWIE is the GM dude,… He is the head of the personnel department and they aren’t hiring a real GM! Call it whatever you want, chip is gone, I no longer have to play alone with the semantics bullshit … Other teams have a GM AND a VP… When we ONLY have a VP, he is also the GM..
Some guys are HCs and some guys are GMs but usually the all-powerful one also has the title as Executive VP. It’s not usually a stand-alone title but it basically means the HC and top personnel guy report to him and he reports to the owner.
Lurie press conference was pretty bland. Really didn’t say much of anything except to confirm that Roseman is back in charge of running things again. Ugh.
A lot of PR stuff but he said enough to allude that Chip pretty much hanged himself.
Says the guy who already had that point of view. How convenient that by not saying much you heard exactly what you wanted to hear.
How convenient is it to be ignorant?
How long you gonna make me wait for the answer?
As long as you’re out of the door with Chip Kelly. Buh bye.
steve smith will play another year for ravens
Biggest issue here wasn’t culture. It was talent. This team simply wasn’t good enough on either side of the ball and has an almost complete lack of elite NFL echelon players right now including at QB.
i dont’ think that’s true at all. D is full of studs. offense has studs. it’s really just the oline and coaching/getting guys healthy. also need to get max out of players and chip couldn’t do that
to quote forrest gump “maybe it’s both”
Who are these studs on offense? Ditto on defense besides Cox?
I do think the defense with a 4-3 scheme and new coordinator could improve and do so notably but that is largely due to how piss poor they were this. Literally impossible to not be better next year. I’m alot less optimistic about this offense especially if Bradford is the QB.
On offense…there are no studs. There’s a QB who was working himself into playing shape who might one day realize his full potential. A terrible offensive line with the best player, Lane Johnson, a simply better than average RT. Ertz, Celek, Huff, Cooper, Agholor are not studs. Sproles is a good change of pace 3rd down back but nothing more. Murray and Mathews are shot and good but injury prone respectively. The best player on offense is JMatt, who’s a very good slot WR and nothing more.
Defense, Cox is a clear stud player at the top of his game. Jenkins is one of the best safeties in the league at this point. After that, Logan is a good player, sure, but hardly a difference maker. Same with Barwin and Graham. Kiko, Kendricks and Ryans all played terribly this year. Hicks may one day become a stud. Maxwell, Rowe and Thurmond are all middle of the road type players.
So yea…one or two studs on defense and zero on offense. Clear lack of talent all around.
kiko was a stud. If kendricks isn’t a stud that’s a guy that howie gets lauded for. So is Howie’s only good draft pick cox?
LJ is the best OT picked in that draft
The team has average talent. It performed average (the average team is winning about 6-7 games this year). To get better, they will need to pick up some studs.
No. The issue is not talent, it was coaching. When a team stops your inside zone run 3 times in a row, each down losing multiple yards, yet you still continue to run that play – that’s coaching.
Lol we only had like 3 running plays, what else could he call? Our Playbooks was a pamphlet
that’s insulting to pamphlets everywhere
A sticky note.
Come on guys. It’s a large index card that’s been laminated!
Obviously that was just one example. I can go on. He was way too conservative in his playcalling. He refused to make in-game changes. He allowed opponents to completely anti-strat his scheme and did nothing about it, then proceeded to blame the players (execution).
The non-benching of Bradley Fletcher was the last straw for me.
I don’t agree. We beat ourselves in 3 or 4 games this year with penalties, drops, missed tackles, missed blocks, blown coverages, etc. Not all those things are talent-based.
Don’t forget missed kicks. Make a couple easy kicks, a couple more easy catches, Landry doesn’t get that miracle catch against MIA… and the narrative is much different right now… some of this stuff is just variance.
The NFL is not a what if league.
Please all knowing one do expand more on the eternal truths of what the NFL is and isn’t.
Ok.
“Should’ve, Would’ve, Could’ve”
The motto of a loser.
Belichick had some bad luck in Cleveland and should’ve won more games. What a freaking loser that guy turned out to be.
We’ll if your players can’t consistently catch, tackle, block or cover…are they really all that talented?
Furthermore, we had very few if any plays this year that were made by pure talent alone. No one did anything extraordinary to score a TD or make a stop on defense (short of Cox), throughout the entire year.
Sometimes, talent can help cover up some inconsistencies. We were inconsistent AND seriously lacking in talent.
fair point
Kiko’s interception was pretty much a talent play. Thurmond’s tip of the ball to Jenkins was pretty freakin amazing as well. And lastly, I’d argue that Mathews made some runs that were mostly his doing (rather than the oline).
Kind of underwhelming. Especially when balanced by the times Kiko was straight run over.
Asked for a pure talent play and I gave an example. It’s not anyone’s fault that Kiko is hurt. But it is the coach’s fault that he let him play.
came back from a partially torn acl but we’ll see what new coach does.
what the hell has howie don th convince lurie that he is a competent GM? if we were hiring a coach-gm combo, I’d be ok with this, but having howie there makes me feel uneasy to say the least
By all accounts, Howie is unwaveringly loyal and more than capable of performing what he is charged to do. He learned the ways of cap management, he accommodated Andy Reid, when Reid had amassed more power than he had earned, he found the HC that Lurie wanted, and he’s credited with moving up to grab fletcher Cox, who is probably the best player on the team.
just scares me to have a non-football guy as the #1 decison-maker, that’s all
one draft pick does not make a GM, down with Howie. Why recycle that, I dont get it
Tommy, Tyler and Sheil: All great takes on the happenings. I think Kelly is going to be hard to replace for his football smarts, but his abrupt dismissal is compelling proof that leaders of people have to know how do deal with them….and motivate and inspire them.
I don’t like the vague power structure of this FO, it’s no good. That was clearly an issue when they did it last time. Reporters would ask a million questions to the new coach. Howie and Chip would be all, we’re partners, accountable only to Mr. Lurie. We would never disagree. Makings of a soap opera (or a ripoff of Odin and his two boys, Thor and Loki). If you aren’t comfortable telling it straight to the public, it probably isn’t a good idea.
That approach can work fine with the right people. Not sure if the Eagles have the right people to collaborate. Lurie did say Roseman was “accountable” for personnel and he used the same term when saying he gave Chip personnel control and then held him accountable. Obviously if I was Lurie, I’d let Roseman go too but if you’re going to keep hiim I say you basically say the new HC is your decision. Put everything on his plate and expect success(maybe give him 2 years instead of 1) and if not hold him “accountable.”
Still set up a situation where each brother can point the finger at the other when papa gets mad. “he didn’t get me good players”
“he didn’t use the players I got him right”
Then papa has to make a decision.
At least if he gives it all to Howie, it’s Howies coach, they sink or swim together.
I would let Roseman go too. Just too many problems. Survivors are good at blaming people, not necessarily their jobs.
“Be nice to people on your way up because you’ll meet them on your way down.”
Great quote.
Couldn’t agree more, Tommy! The owner (Jeff Lurie of all people) giving a pre-game speech always seemed odd to me. Very telling now in hindsight that he felt compelled to do that. Also, telling that it had the effect it did, as the team seemed to play it’s most mistake free game after that.
The 2013 team seemed like they had this incredible secret that they couldn’t wait to tell the world leading up to that first game. Players seemed genuinely excited. Lots of talk about how they were doing things that no other team in the league was doing, but in an excited, wait till you get a load of this, type of way. That team played with swagger (for lack of a better word) and confidence.
This years team seemed very emotionally fragile and unsure of itself. There was no one that the players could look to who had done these things before. There was optimism, but mostly from outside sources, not coming from the players themselves. Worst of all, they seemed to crumble the moment things went poorly. Remember the hot start against Miami…as soon as they missed that FG, the entire team went limp. It was almost like there was no confidence at all and as soon as thinks started going bad, there was this overwhelming, “here we go again” vibe that just permeated from the team. Like they were just waiting for bad things to happen, and the moment one thing went bad it just snowballed out of control from there.
Shocking to see this team, aside from coming back from 14-0 against the Patriots, never once this year overcome even the slightest bit of adversity. Even more shocking to never once see them play a single dominating game where everything seemed to click. Even the Giants and Saints games that were won in decided fashion, were riddled with poor play.
In short, we can say the culture of this team sucked.
It looks like a lot of things contributed. Cutting the best players, bringing in inferior talent, the Oregon bias, “measurables” nonsense, crappy interpersonal skills, lack of PR skill, the ill-advised power struggle with Roseman. I do think the thing that sunk the ship was ultimately the offense. It was good in 2013, deceptively average in 2014, bad in 2015. For all his eye test, Bradford did nothing this year. Ultimately, Foles/Sanchez performed better in 2014 and obviously Foles in 2013. Desean and Maclin are better than what came after; good teams don’t let players like that leave unless they have an ace in the hole. The OL also sucked.
The defense had some legitimately good and even dominant performances, but they were overworked. Perhaps they felt that Chip was putting too much on them and not supporting them (“execution”). Notice the nice things in the press usually came from offensive players, the bitching from the D. Maybe that is why they gave up when Sanchez came in. Just dead tired and now they felt there was no chance. And they were correct–although last year, Sanchez was not that bad.
wtf Mosher just mentioned Duce as a candidate. it was pure speculation of course but nothing would shock me at this point
I just cringed so hard.
i’d rather interview dawk if it’s gonna be like that
They should have brought in Dawk as a motivator for Chip.
I wonder if anyone has ever approached Dawk about being on the staff and playing a role as motivator, mentor, and such.
can he still suplex a grown man?
Lets ask Riley Cooper to be the victim..I mean volunteer.
you just invented my new favorite TV show – “Roster Moves by Dawk”
Bring in Seth Joyner for an interview as well.
I just want to officially say that I like Howie Roseman.
I like Roseman’s draft strategy in terms of trading down for picks and jumping up to get guys they want. I don’t know about his player evaluation skills.
Agree 100% as a Roseman supporter, I think he has strengths that people who don’t like him tend to ignore. However, he can only be as good as his talent evaluators allow him to be and as good as the coaches who develop the talent.
Thanks for the endorsement Mrs. Roseman.
Crazy that chip will never talk again in Philly… He gets to leave never having taken responsibility for any mistake,..
..
Basically, chip Kely to this city will go down as the Doug Collins of the Eagles, a charlatan/snake oils salesman who did serious damage to philly franchises
..
I look forward to a head coach no longer beimg the face of the Eagles, get back to days when we had stars who were the fAce of franchise
Accountability is not what Chip is about after all.
Sad, but true.
Good call on the Collins/Kelly comparison. Collins decimated the Sixers through his trades and roster management.
I get the sense the young level of talent here right now is pretty damn weak too overall.
This Sunday = 46 players playing for their job vs 46 players who dont give a F. Put the house down on the Eagles winning.
They play their asses off, score 40, Murray runs for 200 yards, Ags goes off and all that as a big F-ck you to Chip?
shurmur gets promoted to HC as a result though, do you really want that?
I was speaking hypothetically not realistically, hence the sarcasm in that post.
ok, just making sure. I think shurmur as a HC is not an outcome anybody is looking for
not even sure shurmur wants that
Not in any way friend.
46 players who love their superbowl winning coach and want to see him go out on top of a hated rival.
Just realized regardless of the winning record outside of that flukey win in NE Chip’s eagles never beat a good team/contender. In hindsight his teams were never really close to contending.
He also routinely lost to the best teams in college. I think the constant hurry-up system is flawed, and is exposed against very good teams.
I’m not sure I would say he routinely lost to the best teams in college when he beat the following. Not like he was getting a chance every single week. Throw in what I think most would say was a recruiting disadvantage and I think they did okay. Oregon definitely got beat by some good teams during that time but to say routinely makes it sound like his record was 2-10 against the best teams, just not true.
2009 beat #6 Cal, #4 USC (with Carroll)
2010 beat #9 Stanford
2011 Stanford who finished 11-2, Wisconsin who finished 11-3
2012 Kansas State who finished 11-2
There’s a John Harbaugh to Philly rumor? That makes no sense.
I am all in IF he comes available…. seems unlikely however.
he shot it down himself
No shit he shot it down he has to coach the Ravens this week lol
He doesn’t get along well with people, either. He’s not the collaborator Lurie is looking for.
I am sure they’re going to be a lot of rumors of a lot of coaches and many who will have had no contact with the Eagles. I would take Harbaugh in a heartbeat though.
Kelly to Michigan then?
John Harbaugh is the coach of the Ravens, you’re referring to Jim.
That’s Jim Harbaugh. John is the Ravens coach.
Wish my boss gave me 13mil to go away
..
LURIE talking a lot about wanting a coach who understands this city and the crazy fans.. Is he dropping hints for McDermott? Not sure how a candidate can understand this whacky city without coaching or having lived here…
..
Ultimately no fan has any clue how some assistant will turn out as a head coach. We have uneducated opinions, but in reality we have no clue how any candidate will do… I hate so much unknown, hopefilly we can finally get our shit togethet in the front office/coaching… How can I have faith when the same people whos failures got us to this point are making the decisions?
..
Rushiñg the coaching search is causing LURIE to make an epic mistake not hiring a GM with a fresh set of highs, and continue with the status quo of a dysfunctional front office who spent years in Novacare power struggles
NFL coach makes a bit of a difference than say a MLB manager but I still argue that it is highly overrated too.
I think it will get forfeited once he finds another gig.
It’s not about understanding. That was PR fluff. We want playoff wins. A Super Bowl to be exact. Chip’s trajectory was heading downwards and Lurie decided to cut his losses before more damage could be done.
Yup and I heartily believe that even if this team won a Super Bowl they wouldn’t get a year or so grace period.
One of the biggest revisionist sports histories is how much Buddy Ryan was loved. He was run out of town on a rail by Braman after this team got embarrassed at home by the Skins 20-6 & yet another playoff loss.
The most foolish things Lurie said were that the Kelly has to ‘understand the fan base.’
Still argue this is the most hypercritical and reactionary fan base even in the NFL. The last thing a coach should ever do is pay attention to the fans or try to seriously accommodate what they want.
Even if the team wins, there is still often a fair amount of criticism of the team unless it is a blowout.
I think he is referring to the negative Philly media taking things out of context or just outright lying looking for page views and the effect it has on the players.
Amazing that chip couldn’t make it thru a single season after being given power.
..
How does he even get another pro coaching job right away After the mess he created?
..
If it’s a meritocracy than how can he get a HC job?
His scheme works great in college, where you can assemble some top tier talent to run plays against shitty defenses.
But he says he wants to stay in the NFL… I def think he deserve college job, but how can you make a case thathe warrants a pro Job after LURIE gave him everything he wanted?
Also helps that you have almost twice the roster size as an NFL team.
and only 2/3 the schedule
That to.
He is going to weasel his way to that job that’s how. He’s already said his next NFL coaching job he wants to be strictly the head coach. That’s the 1st step in rebuilding his image.
Lol exactly what he said when he first came to philly
My thoughts exactly brother. You know if he goes to TEN and has a successful first season he will try to pull the same power struggle move he pulled here.
Yup, and force his way back into Power… First day he gets power he will give away DGB, doesmt fit Culture
DGB for Huff lets get it done Howie.
Throw in Taylor Hart while we are at it
With his lack of interpersonal skills, it seems that he might be hard to hire as a head coach again. OC yes, not sure about HC.
Marcus Mariota and the Titans would say otherwise.
I guess we’ll see.
Should have tried to trade him to Titans first
That was my very 1st thought when I heard the news. Why the hell if Lurie knew he was going to fire Kelly that he didn’t call the Titans.
if i’m titans as soon as i get tat call i hang up. if they’re calling it’s bc theyre about to move him. you’d have to backchannel that and hope titans call you
Best bet is to go back to college with young kids fresh out of high school that won’t question anything.
Re: why no GM
Because, given that no one holds that title right now for the Eagles, the Rooney
Rules would apply — requiring that at least one minority be interviewed.
Lurie is, I think, side-stepping this formality with his story about a collaborative effort in the front office among existing execs.
He wants to move forward quickly. Formally announcing a GM hiring would, given Rooney, delay things, apparently.
A theory at least that explains why Lurie said what he did.
I didn’t think of that. Good point.
Also it’s common to hire a GM who then sets out how the search for a coach will happen and who is a candidate, which also takes time to set up.
Isn’t Roseman Jewish? Wouldn’t that count as a minority? I call shenanigans if not.
not for rooney
yikes, that thing’s loaded then.
i’m jewish and we’re doing ok without it. i’d say howie and marynowitz are evidence that members of the Tribe gets consideration for executive roles, whereas the minorities it’s supposed to benefit were historically stereotyped as not having the attributes needed to lead. hence the need to force someone to at least inteview someone
still plenty of casual racism getting in his way. Like everyone trusts him to work the numbers and understand value, but he’s not “football” enough to trust to make decisions…yeaaah probably nothing fishy going on with that public perception.
Roseman also unfortunately has a bit of a nerdy look to him, and football fans demand “real men” to be at the helm, which I’m sure also accounts for some of the distaste for him.
agreed, not all of the unfair characterizations are nefarious in nature. Just pointing it out, it’s there.
i’ve definitely heard some “dog whistles” over the years
i get that, and there have been much uglier things said or implied about him and about banner before him. but he’s not a football guy. he’s a cap guy and even i, who dislike him, credit him with being good at that stuff. but guys like him, who didn’t play or coach, will always have a tough time getting credibility in a room full of ex players and coaches.
What about Asians? Do they get counted in the Rooney Rules? If yes, why? They’re doing fine. If no, Why? There’s hardly any Asians involved in the NFL at any level. Annnnnd now we get into why these rules are asinine once you start sorting out which minorities it applies to.
That’s what I meant by the thing is loaded.
if there were asians qualified they’d fit, same with indians, or anyone else. But when you have a league that’s filled w/ 80% black players, and lots of black assistant coaches, etc it’s right to question why no coaches and no interviews.
This
How many execs are even former players though? How many owners? It’d be nice if it was common for the guys who do all the work to be able to climb to the ranks to make the real NFL bucks. If the dudes up top didn’t come from the bottom, of course they won’t look the dudes on the bottom. The fact that the dudes up top are all crusty old white guys is a problem as old as America. It aught to be opened up to people of all backgrounds.
But yeah, it’s a problem. Race and socio-economic
how many coaches and gms are former players? almost all of them.
Oh, Didn’t know coaches are considered executives. What about GM’s. John Elway and Ozzie I know
Cowboys, nope
Redskins nope
Giants nope
Eagles nope
again i get what you mean but it requires ignoring the reality of how things have been. it’s like anon says – if there hadn’t been a history of discriminatory practice with a really disproportionate number of black men in physical roles versus intellectual roles, it wouldn’t have happened. it’s a shame we need measures like this but that’s the society we live in.
True, would be nice if the damn thing worked though.
there’s the rub. you can’t legislate morality.
I dont see the logic there, he can still interview a candidate that covers that in the interim.
Re: why no GM… it’s because Lurie already has a behind closed doors agreement with Mr. Lawlor who reminded him that for appearances he needs to interview other candidates and do some smoke and mirrors type stuff so that he can soak up some clicks to help support his in home lasik biz.
NJ.com hit piece is up.
http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2015/12/chip_kelly_fired_former_eagle_opens_up_about_toxic.html
finally i was starting to fade over here
Is it toilet paper material like their usual articles?
Nah it’s not ESP. It’s basically what we knew already. Chip lost the locker room.
Ok cool, I’ll definitely read it knowing it isn’t an ESP article. Thanks man.
one unnamed former player
trying to figure out who it could be
Alex Henery duhh
That’s a lot of them eh? Well ESPN had some other info that may or may not have been true. I edited that in.
lane, rowe, and matthews went on radio last night didnt say he lost the lockerrom but that people were unhappy. not unhappy enough not to play, but unhappy.
“I don’t think everyone was onboard and headed in the same direction. I want to see a guy who really cares about his players and isn’t so set in his ways so we can all go in the same direction.
People felt more comfortable talking to position coaches. I could personally talk to Chip, he was unapproachable sometimes. Several players didn’t think Chip Kelly was approachable.
I liked Chip. I had no personal problem with Chip. He drafted me, I made great strides under him here. I think there was tension in the front office and anytime you have that going on up there, it’s never good.”
From Lane himself.
Theres one up about Howie having hand in this too
Seems like Chip gave Howie all the ammunition he needed
“I know there were reports that Chip lost the locker room this season,” the ex-Eagles player said. “I can tell you, he never had the support of the team this year. It was a toxic situation from the moment I arrived. Those guys in that locker room almost universally despised him.”
who’s the shit-talker? it’s an ex-player that came in during kelly and left during kelly.
Austin, Miles
man, if he talked shit about chip after basically receiving multimillions to suck . . .and not getting benched for a long time after deserving to . . .
like “i lost all respect for chip once he signed someone like me”
good one
Interestingly the quotes from the unnamed player suggest that said player only joined the Eagles this year, and has already left.
Miles Austin?
Lane Johnson now saying the ship was never going in the correct direction. Always thought he supported Chip but sounds like he never really bought in either.
I believe it now. Lane is going to be here for a long time and he has nothing to lose now that Chip can’t fire him.
LOL. It was definitely moving backwards with all those pre snap penalties he was getting
But now I just read he went on to say he liked Chip and could talk to him but just most of the other players couldn’t. Sounds like Chip alienated himself by being approachable to some athletes and not others.
I’m not saying Chip didn’t bring this on himself. It was time for him to go.
Its just hard for to listen to players cry about the coach and pretend they didn’t have a hand in this. I think some of them need to be out the door with Chip
Oh it is definitely on some players. The way this team has crumbled this year is a huge indictment on the franchise as a whole.
he’s white!
still a cheap shot but it does keep getting harder to dismiss completely
I was kidding
Ha Jordan Matthews just tweeted his phone would be on Holiday Mode for a while, IE do not disturb
Jason Peters has also apparently declined to comment on the situation at the moment. Mathews has been very vocal about his love for Kelly so that makes sense.
I bet Demarco is popping off champagne bottles.
Oh I am sure of it. I will be popping champagne bottles if the new coach that comes in still benches Murray at the beginning of next year.
Or if he manages to trade him for a position of need.
I will do backflips on glass shards if a new coach can manage that.
he deserves a benching plus he needs to spend the next 9 months in an ice tub
Agreed.
This is just me speculating, but I suspect Peters is one of the guys that wasn’t high on Chip.
as long as he has a Juggs machine close by
she has a name dude
lol
Is her name “Can’t touch this”?
If Lurie felt it was this bad that had to fire Chip, then must be real bad, fine, had to be done. The only issue with this though is Roseman being there and Lane Johnson saying the players could feel the tension between Chip and Roseman. And knowing Roseman is Lurie’s golden child. Having Roseman there just leaves enough doubt that he continued to work over Lurie and that Lurie is making this decision so hastily not because Chip was a complete train wreck (thought looks like he was) but partly because Roseman has been behind the scenes pushing the right buttons the past year. If players felt the tension, then Roseman was not hiding humbly away ordering helmet parts and working on spreadsheets. Gotta wonder what Roseman would say to a player like Demarco if ran into him privately at the complex, when Demarco like player complained a little about Chip, I cant believe Roseman would have said anything to help player/coach relationships.
Just wish Roseman would be gone as well so can completely get past the last desperate years of Reid and the years of Chip.
It would feel so less dirty if Roseman was gone.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/17/Grima_and_Th%C3%A9oden.jpg
something like that
man, Jack White is aging poorly
The prodigal son of Jeff Lurie is going no where soon.
David Shaw? Smash mouth offense, lots of two tight ends, don’t know enough about his defenses.
urban meyer
David Shaw was a hot name a couple months ago, but that seems to have died down a bit
He doesn’t seem to have any interest in leaving Stanford.
Sean Payton.
Anyone care for Bevell from Sea? That offense is looking good lately without a lot of big name skill players. Backup rb and that WR group.
Except he has Russell Wilson, who is playing lights out, and the Eagles don’t.
ya ya, not saying they dont have players and some talent but they are taking it up a notch. Hes not my top choice but I really want an offensive guy. Gase is my pick. With a rebuild it just seems easier to get a decent D coord to coach this group up then an unknown on offense with a young QB possibly.
I hear ya. Me personally I’d rather have Hue Jackson. Has experience as a HC and would be willing to work with what he’s given.
I wouldnt hate it or even McDaniels although hes so unlikable. Hed have to come with a huge change in attitude. We thought Chip had ego
No please no McDaniels.
i think he got a raw deal as HC anyway. he’s my pick
My thoughts exactly. He led a Raiders team bereft of talent to an 8-8 record and had them on the verge of the postseason. He’s my #1 candidate.
i don’t mind Jackson, but that Raiders team was 8-8 the year before under Tom Cable….also a lot of rumors about Jackson going behind Cable’s back to ownership to get him fired so he could take over
Him and Howie would get along so well
Doug Baldwin and that Tyler Lockett are playing well this year
Lockett is one of those players where you just throw 40 times and all that stuff out the window….idk what his measurables are anyway, but the guy can just play
Dude ran like a 4.35 that ended up being an official 4.41 at the combine. So he can fly.
haha, didn’t remember how fast he ran, but regardless of his 40 time, he just makes plays
Do they catch footballs? Cuz that would be an amazing sight to behold.
I bet he hires shurmur, anti climactic
that’s like dumping your girlfriend and dating her mom
yeah but it would be such a let down he might do it to us
Sometimes that’s not too bad… okay, wait, too much internet.
i’ve tried doing this before…..didn’t work out unfortunately
tell lurie
[…] Lawlor was prophetic this morning when he discussed how Kelly failed to build sustainable relationships ins…, a critical but often overlooked aspect of coaching. That view was confirmed by Jeffrey Lurie, who […]
Wow, Marcus Smith was ecstatic when he heard Chip was fired. That dude needs to look in the mirror.
ha, nothing like blaming others for your short comings.
i tend to blame the dude who failed to coach him up
enh. “Yayyyy the head coach is gone, thats why I wasnt starting or getting PT”
but maybe “yay the dude who had me at OLB, ILB, OLB and denied drafting me is gone”
I admire your optimism for a guy who cant get on the field…ever. I was with you that you had to give him time, not so easy to buy anymore even at that position.
i’ve actually changed my mind and sided with you based on this http://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadelphia-eagles/marcus-smith-doesnt-see-gap-between-him-connor-barwin-brandon-graham
not a growth mindset at all Marcus lol
Right!?
Reminds me of Leinart dissing Whisenhunt. But then…
There is reason to believe that MS2 can be a good player in the right scheme. He is clearly physically gifted. I think it was the fact that OLB is such a difficult position to play that sandbagged him so far. Chip’s lack of flexibility was costing this team in some ways.
Did he really say that?
He just retracted his statement on twitter because he thought he was saying surprised, not ecstatic.
How did Connor Barwin find out about Chip Kelly’s dismissal? An alert from the Eagles app while out to dinner.
spit take?
Changes yesterday also included some of Chip’s support staff. Director of player engagement Marcus Sedberry is no longer with the team.
this guy must have been terrible at his job.
Execution was lacking. Bring back Taco Friday!
This has been reported already but James Harris, Chip’s “chief of staff” was also fired.
I wonder what about Shawn Huls?
Or having a Director of player engagement was the problem?
hired after first season, linkedin says he was a black guy. bad way to address a problem?
Lots of teams use that title. He basically replaced Harold Carmichael whose title was director of player relations.
It was rhetorical (not meant to be answered literally), a sarcastic joke.
[…] Lawlor was prophetic this morning when he discussed how Kelly failed to build sustainable relationships ins…, a critical but often overlooked aspect of coaching. That view was confirmed by Jeffrey Lurie, who […]
rolling stone piles on http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/features/chip-kelly-fired-5-mistakes-that-cost-him-his-job-20151230
This inevitably happens. At first I understand even welcome the change in some way. Then the pile on the guy while he’s down makes me feel bad. He definitely didn’t earn all of this.
Best of luck to him. He’s a great coach and I believe he’ll land on his feet somewhere. Wish it could have been here.
i don’t even feel that badly for him but it’s pathetic to be the 100th “journalist” playing MMQB
To be fair, Rolling Stone is not a journal of record, or a sportsman’s first read. Chip often spoke of the irrational amount of media attention that he received, and it seemed to be predicated on his reputation for being an innovator that was changing the rigid NFL.
you’re right but it’s not like they came up with four amazing points – it was the same shit everyone else wrote
You see it everywhere and it’s disgusting. I need to do a better job of ignoring it, but it does get infuriating -especially when there is a major overlap between those who were praising him as the next Bill Walsh 2 years ago and those who are now celebrating his downfall.
yup
or when buzz bissenger “blames the media” for chip’s arrogance. um dawg, you write books and do interviews. who exactly do you think the media is?
They’re going bankrupt soon enough.
Just watched the Lurie pc, and he trumpeted a “collaborative” approach of running the franchise, with VP of Operations (Howie), Head of Personnel (Tom Donohoe currently) and the new HC all answering to him. I think this is an unrealistic model for successfully running an organization. It is a model that plays to the competitive, elbowing tendencies of all involved.
The HC has the most demanding load to bear, but that is precisely why he should be clear upon his hire that there is, for him, no ladder leading to the front office. That is not to suggest that he cannot meet privately with the owner, but in a high pressure environment boundaries are important. Make it clear from the first interview, that all of the resources of the franchise will be utilized to accommodate the HC and meet his personnel, technical and logistical requirements, BUT the FO IS the franchise, and he is the hire. This assumes a top-tier FO, but it also gives an ambitious HC a close-up look at how the neckties operate. Mike Holmgren went to Green Bay as a learned acolyte of Bill Walsh, and his short stint there resulted in a SB victory, and whetted his appetite to be an executive. I hope Lurie gets a first-rate front office. That, to me, is a higher priority than hiring a great HC. A great coach in a so-so franchise will eventually leave or be fired without achieving much. I think this is what we just witnessed. Kelly’s resume was full of achievement and upward moving, and one of the first things out of his mouth at his first pc was “I only want to coach.” If Lurie had held him to that, and if the tenor of the organization was such that Kelly would have to do some of his own adapting, well he may never have signed on, but his high football IQ and low people EQ could ONLY have worked if the franchise had a personality in the locker room to be the leader that Kelly was not. It happens all of the time in the workplace: the intellectual achiever may be the titular head while the charismatic “supervisor” is the vital communicator. Maybe that is why Kelly named a new-to-the NFL Jerry Azzinaro as his assistant HC. By all accounts Azz has the passion and credibility that are essential in the locker room. Sorry to digress.
My point: find the guy that you trust and that embodies everything you want in your chief executive. If that is Howie Roseman, fine. Charge him with creating a passionate, wary, critical, (and self-critical) circle of achievers who contribute to the establishment of a smooth-functioning franchise that doesn’t trade its soul for any HC. Creating such an environment takes time and sensitivity and trial and error, but it should be the ever-looming task of the chief executive to maintain excellence and stability. The role then of the HC is explicitly defined, and there is no incentive for elbowing.
only one w/ real accountability, obviosly
it’s tough to have a “collaborative approach” when a team starts losing…..then it’s every man for himself as individuals try to save their jobs. That “collaborative group” will turn on each other
This season was a lot more fun last August.
it sucks when the eagles have to fire the coach.
really sucks, because it means its been bad, worse then we thought even in this case.
it sucked when Reid had to go, but at least he gave us some history and relevance. and now we root for the chiefs out of the corner of one eye.
Re: Compensation for Bradford, if he leaves
The issue with Bradford, obviously, is whether he wants to return given who the new coach is. And whether the new coach will want him to return.
A new coach will be hired much sooner then the free agency period.
That gives the Eagles some leverage in getting compensation for Bradford if he wants to leave.
Assume Bradford does not like the choice of the new coach. He will want to move on.
But the Eagles, read: Roseman, can franchise tag Bradford. But only for the purpose of trying to secure compensation from which ever team wants to sign him.
Bradford won’t sign the tag because if he does, he can’t leave.
Such a move would not be calculated to be a Brinks hold up job. But may be a way to pick up a third round pick, which could be used with the extra third-round choice from Detroit to obtain a second round pick in the upcoming draft.
I’d like to believe it’ll be an angle Roseman — now back in charge — will explore if Bradford wants a new home.
That’s a dangerous move. I doubt Bradford will get offers in the franchise tag value range so his best move would be to quickly sign the tag. I wouldn’t franchise him and be conservative enough in free agency to ensure that I get a compensatory pick for him in the 2017 draft.
If Bradford doesn’t want to be in Philadelphia — having already made $78 MM on his first contract — I don’t think he’d sign the franchise tender.
But you could be right. Calculated risk for sure
The new coach isn’t necessarily going to want to be conservative in free agency and we could have all new systems, that just isn’t realistic just to get a so so comp pick…. And Lurie and players and fans have no patience.
why do people want to get rid of Sammy b?
he was getting good, you don’t give up on him now do ya?
I think its more of people thinking realistically and not knowing whether a new HC would want him or not.
he was getting good in chip’s system but we have no idea what system is coming
Exactly why I’ve been one of the main ones questioning whether Bradford will indeed be back or not.
it shouldn’t be a big deal for him to run a new system.
anywhere he goes will be new I guess so he get’s to choose. but there are no better options out there
it’s all the same to him, sure. but to us it removes one of his biggest advantages – familiarity with the system we have in place.
Don’t want to get rid of him but don’t want to overpay him and have a long-term commitment to him either. A pay as you go short-term contract would be ideal but I doubt Bradford would go for that.
yeah, a guy with his injury history should have to sign a shorter term deal for sure. but he was looking good
But the thinking was that he was improving and would continue to do so in his second year in the system, but with a new coach and system there’s no guarantee for that, and even with his current improvement he’s still only an average QB, not one to keep at all cost
I hate his face
Donahoe joined Eagles in 2012 as a senior football advisor. He has not had a daily presence in the building to this point — works remotely.
I think they should fire Roseman but seeing as how they’re not any head personnel job we are offering wouldn’t offer full control so teams could decline our interview requests. Donahoe is likely just a stand-in until after the draft when more options become available.
Roseman is Lurie’s prodigal son, he isn’t going anywhere.
The prodigal son returned, Howie never left.
Name not mentioned for HC: Ben McAdoo, OC of the Giants. I realize they struggled this past Sunday but he really maximizes that offense and gets a lot more out of Eli than Gilbride ever did. The struggles they do have are primarily because of their offensive line.
I am pretty sure he will be the next HC of the Giants.
“Lane Johnson: “Hell, in the first 2 seasons, we broke franchise records. …If we get the right personnel, he’s proven he’s a great coach.”
Ohio State: Urban Meyer tells reporters an NFL team reached out to him, but wouldn’t answer if it was the Cleveland Browns.
Above from coachingsearch.com
feelings on him?
I personally wouldn’t hire a college coach without previous NFL experience.
becuase of what we just experienced or do you think that’s specific to chip. i do think the way chip failed it’d be hard to sell a college guy to the fan base.
I think a NFL HC needs to know how to relate to older 28+ year old players and that’s hard to do if you only have exp at college level.
tebow joke
chips friend? that would be funny. but he is good no?
has a title
oh sorry, Mr. Urban Meyer
Johnson on Chip getting personnel: “I think that’s where things went wrong. There was tension upstairs, and…led to him being released.”
“You just got to know what you have, and that’s by talking to your players,” Graham said. “Trying to work together. That’s why the next one — they’re going to get someone that wants to hear from the players. Even though Chip heard from the players, I just felt like still, somebody got to actually do some of the stuff. Especially the crucial stuff that people want.”
i have no idea what the hell he is talking about
Why the hell is everything always so cryptic with this team?
idk man…..but i’m really starting to wonder about some of these players
read LJ’s comment above. sad thing is that what they’re asking for seems so basic.
he had problems relating to people. Someone said something about a player at Oregon way back mentioning this. Just really a loner type, hard to believe someone like that can ascend to head coach level where that seems so crucial.
hard to think that 3 guys that hired him didn’t do enough investigating to know and then same 3 guys are going to go at it again.
yeah seriously! if it’s all about accountability then wtf are they still picking for?
I doubt they would care if we were a contender. I mean, they would care, but they would ride it out as long as possible until the team unraveled like they did this year.
lurie basically said playoffs, can have a down year, but not two. not sure if that changes if the coach and howie gets along well. but when chip got personnel control he got a noose not the reins
not sure I trust anyone to “get along” with Howie. Ill assume they are lying.
so disappointing isnt it
“[Lurie] just wants a guy that, if issues arise, you’re able to talk to, communicate, solve the problem, instead of maybe being just a one-way guy that’s set in his ways,” Johnson said.
“I just want to see a guy who really cares about his players, and if you have any suggestions … just do well at communicating. Not set in stone with his ways, and just be willing to all work together in one direction.”
Player’s coach, basically.
like Rex Ryan
thats fine to a degree, Rex does it to a fault I think. Got to have balance.
his routine wearing thin, but gotta get a guy that players want to play at a higher level for.
he was cooler when he was fat
The more I read about what Lurie said about this matter, the more uncomfortable I get.
how so
I’m not sure. Not liking his thought process, I guess. Why do we need a players’ coach? Is it necessary that the players need to like or be able to talk to their head coach? Why did he give Chip GM powers in the first place if he wasn’t going to give him enough time to put things in order? Is becoming an average team when you are rebuilding (they are average, not bad, the league is full of 6 win teams) really unexpected?
More: why are the players that Chip specifically picked rebelling against him? Is it because he is such an asshole that they can’t stand to take their millions and play a game for it? Or has the organizational structure become flawed? In the army, everyone hates their commander but they still do their job. Was having Roseman hanging around with Lurie’s ear one of the biggest mistakes in this debacle?
I am uncomfortable that Chip did not get one more year.
i was hoping for another year too, but chip really does sound like an asshole and nobody told him he had to fix everything at once.
Lurie gave chip personnel control so that he’d have a reason to fire him. Basically unless eagle killed it this year he was gone.
But that’s bizarre. The guy had already accumulated 20 wins in two seasons. If Roseman’s so good as GM, they should have just kept it that way. It is quite possible for two people who hate each other to work together effectively.
chip basically said personnel control or im out (reading btw the lines from lurie’s pc). the relationship w/ howie was not good. i don’t think chip liked the types of players howie got, which is expected when you hire a guy that has such specific positional requirements
In a perfect rational world, coaches wouldn’t need to coddle players and coaches/personnel guys could work together in harmony to make the team the best it could be without competing agendas. We don’t live in a perfect world.
we expect too much of these players if we think they will make the exact same effort for a man they believe in and care about versus a man they can’t stand and don’t trust. not many people in any profession would do quite as well in that atmosphere
Here’s the thing, though, there are different ways to motivate people. One is love, one is fear.
Im in the same boat, sort of. I keep thinking back to the in game results this season though. Will the TOP gap ever get better? Will he consistently run down his defense? Will he continue to ignore the OL?
There is a lot going against him as the coach, the offense was horrific this year and probably wouldnt be much better next year with that way he called plays. I think a lot of us thought he would come out of this funk, but really he proved that he was unable to adapt.
Froms MSII – soo stupid: Apologize for the confusion. earlier today in an interview I misspoke and used the word ecstatic to describe my reaction. I meant surprised
oh man. no wonder he didn’t stay at QB
this guy doesn’t have a grasp on the english language and we expect him to learn how to play OLB in the 3-4?…..he truly was a reach
i’m ecstatic that he didn’t know the word surprised. i mean i’m surprised he didn’t know the word ecstatic.
Dude, there are a lot of smart people who don’t speak English!
What a BUST. Sorry I meant loser. lol
Yeah, I don’t believe he’s that stupid. I think his agent called him and said it doesn’t look good for you to say “Ding dong, the witch is dead! Praise the lord!” so enthusiastically and they’re trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube.
by pretending to be illiterate
Man, putting toothpaste back in the tube is killing me with my 2 year old twins at home!!!
clearly, but he’s got a degree – he’s gotta know you can’t ever let something like that come out of your mouth, especially in his position.
all these players should zip it. I hope they realize other teams are aware of who says what. Do they want to be known as a malcontent or even worse- a whinny hinney.
The dude was at a bar when the draft was happening. That was the first indication he would be total bust.
I actually used the word benched when I meant bust
So there’s a chance we’ll see Cousins to DeSean in midnight green next season?! 😉
Hopefully not a chance in hell.
Yes
I’m worried Lurie is going to be more hands now. If that is the case…look out.
JJ style?
Dan Snyder style?
How many more hands?
I think he is getting less shy about letting people know how it is, it’s his team. I don’t know what the result will be though.
It really depends how he came to his decision. Did he pull the plug because he had a specific vision for his team that didn’t mesh with where Chip was going. Or did he just not like the specific direction Chip was going.
And I think that is the critical difference between a good owner, and a Jerruh/ Dan Snyder style owner. Those guys have such a specific image so they are constantly meddling. Lurie has always just found a guy he believed in and let him work. And he’s been willing to let them take their visions to the extreme. It would definitely be bad if he gets too involved. Or the bigger (more likely) risk is he gets more and more impatient. Pulling the plug too soon too often.
Yup.
Watching this Eagles Offense on kickoff Monday night football under Chip Kelly in his first ever game as our HC seems like a century ago. If it wasn’t for my beautiful twin daughters to be born that night..!
if you watched the game sunday chip might have a job
i want no part of McDaniels who was an unmitigated disaster in Denver. I’d prefer we go after a defensive coach.
He got in over his head a little bit but to assume he has not learned from those years would be foolish. What if the Pats had not given Belichick a second chance, what about Pete Caroll not getting a second NFL chance in Seattle? Also, McDaniels proved he could win in the NFL he just went for a power grab. Look into EVERYONE Lurie.
A huge strike against him, he drafted Tebow in the first…..
Again, can people not learn from their own history? I am not advocating we need to hire him, but it would be damn foolish to not look into him…
sure but it’s a strike nonetheless.
we have Howie to prevent that now lol. I dont see Howie allowing a head strong ego coach like McD to come in, he wont be having it
I’m in favor of a defensive guy also…..would you bring back Shurmur? or hire an new offensive guy? i guess some of that depends on how you feel about Bradford
Geoff Mosher also saying to watch out for Eagles hiring Ryan Grigson if/when he’s fired by Colts. Apparently Grigson is one of the few ex-personnel guys that got along well with Howie.
b/c there’s no chance he’d be “better” than howie.
Sometimes having a collection of guys that get along well is a better option than trying to hire the “best” guy that will be competitive with the other members of the team.
maybe, but already having to limit options because of relationship problems is not starting from a good spot.
He’s absolutely awful. Please God, no.
This the same guy who traded Cleveland a 1st Rd pick for a terribly under-performing Trent Richardson, right?
same guy who picked up t. cole and herremans. stole gore from us, which has probably been his best signing.
cole and herremans were non performers for the Colts
Gore slightly better
100% my point, but maybe there’s a relationship there
look at all hes done for Andrew Luck, sign him up
Kellyesque!
I’d much rather get Chuck Pagano to coach the defense when he gets fired by the Colts
Gase?
How’s you guys feel
I dont understand the love. What has he done exactly? Why is he so attractive?
looked great in an offense with peyton. cutler only has 9 picks this season but passing / offense numbers aren’t amazing.
Peyton had a record season that year also if I recall 40 something Tds. Hard to glean from that but to get what he did from Cutler on that bad team was pretty solid imo. I also just want an offensive guy with a rebuild and possibly young QB. Think its easier to get a decent D coord than dynamic offensive guy. Bears RBs also were really productive, he runs a lot out of shotgun, almost a pass first to set up the run.
Gase running tons of shotgun isnt exactly Demarco Murray friendly though is it lol
I am pretty sure most of the interest comes from people, like me, hoping for the opportunity to describe his aggressive play calling as John Wayne Gase-y.
well….that guy did have a way of connecting with younger men
What college coaches are out there that have NFL coaching experience?
Jim Mora Jr.(UCLA)
David Shaw(not as HC)
Nick Saban
David Shaw is intriguing.
Yes, but he doesn’t seem to have much interest in returning to the NFL.
Chip didnt have interest in the NFL this time 3 years ago?
philly is mellow, he should think about it! ha
He is sort of a QB whisperer, is he not? I think he checks a lot of the boxes.
Latest Bleacher report states top choices as Gase and McDaniels. Take BR
for what it is. I dont mind either assuming Josh isnt the same ego
asshat he was first time around.
Tommy already wrote an article with them as candidates.
were going to be discussing the same 5 – 10 names until they hire someone
I’m just going to keep saying Sean Payton and hope it somehow happens.
But side note, one positive to this – no more Oregon bandwagoners. GTFO here
i like your screw the ducks attitude but don’t really care about payton
sean payton is under contract. I don’t get it
Rumors have been circling he might get canned in NO. It’s sort of like in 2012, week 16, you knew Andy Reid was under contract. But you knew he was ‘available’.
I’m still an Oregon fan sooooooo
Let’s bring back Brad Childress!
Doug Pederson !!! I looked at KC coaching tree, saw that Al Harris is a secondary coach
my childhood buddy is a coaching assistant on the Chiefs and was recruited to play at New Hampshire by Chip during his final year there….he’s my source into that organization
whered he go instead
he went to New hampshire and played for Chip as a DB his freshman year then Chip went to Oregon after that….his name is Dino Vasso if you want to verify lol
very cool. By all accounts Andy seems like a great person, gotta be a good staff to work for I imagine
yea from what he’s told me, Andy is pretty great guy
does he have to babysit Reid’s loser kids?
one of em is on the staff but how nice of you
no, last i heard he was part of the Running Back coaching staff…..he probably stands around and tries to knock the ball out of their hands during drills lol
gtfo with that man it’s not necessary
You mean its too obvious .. 2 felon sons is fair game…makes the worst mist dangerous family in the nfl
i don’t think anyone’s kids are fair game and i think it’s hypocritical for someone taking that cheap of a shot to think they have any moral high ground to stand on.
kids are off limits.
but the 2 Reid boys were tried as adults. selling and intimidating other peoples’ kids. endangering local police forces.
although they were driving around in daddy’s cars and dealing heroin and guns out of daddy’s house .. the felonies they accumulated are theirs as adults.
and I would have thought that ERISA laws would have seized daddy’s cars and house since affiliated with felony drug dealing.
I thought it was embarrassing the way andy paraded the entire nfl and culled their favor and respect for his sons funeral. he did od in Eagles camp . the press showed great respect to keep the story private- he also should have kept it private.
We should just bring back as many coaches and execs from the early 2000’s. Les Frasier. McD. Spags. Maybe convince John Harbaugh and Ron Rivera to get in on the nostalgia train. Fun times.
DAMN Dan Klausner: As I’ve said for a month now, the Eagles are the Browns, they’re just the only ones who don’t know it. Furthermore, the current state of the franchise is set to get a lot worse before it gets better as the ramifications of Chip Kelly’s poor personnel decisions over the past 12 months will be felt for years.
After two narrow victories that could’ve propelled the team to rally and finish the season strong, it fell flat against the Cardinals and Redskins, which is to say the team continued its enduring malaise except without getting the help of turnovers/fluke plays. The first half of both games were competitive, before devolving into the same brain-dead garbage we saw all season. I mean, how many times did the Eagles string together two consecutive impressive halves where every facet clicked and the team rolled? Was it even once? Chip Kelly demanded control over personnel so he could mold the team in his image, and then immediately molded it into a heaping pile of shit. Not enough talent, not enough development, not enough excitement, and certainly not enough coaching to overcome the numerous shortcomings. And about the last point: That’s just the thing, the only thing worse than Chip the GM in 2015 was Chip the Head Coach. He was absolutely brutal. Conservative, dull, neutered, overmatched. Take your pick of defining moments, but for me it was Saturday night when he challenged the Riley Cooper drop. It’s not like Kelly was in a time crunch and had to make a split-second decision before the other team snapped the ball. He had a chance to see every replay on the big screen — though I don’t know if they showed the final angle when Cooper rolled over and the nose of the ball hit the ground — AND Pat Shurmur had a chance to see every TV replay in the coaches’ box, which showed the definitive angle. Fucking bozos. I’m still waiting for the first NFL team to do the right thing and pay some 18-30 year old $100 per game to do nothing but watch TV replays and buzz the coach when he should throw the challenge flag.
As a staunch defender of Kelly over his first two years, I felt hoodwinked and duped by a false prophet in 2015. Despite hating his offseason and thinking this team had an 8-8 ceiling at best, I fooled myself into thinking preseason meant anything and jumped on board because I’m an idiot. Classic mistake. The season was a calamitous clusterfuck from literally the first snap. The only time I felt even a twinge of enjoyment was Jordan Matthews’ game-winning touchdown catch in overtime against a depleted Cowboysteam that would’ve won the division had Tony Romo not died. Turns out Chip’s act rubbed people the wrong way and almost everyone in the building despised him, save for the handful of players who constantly came to his defense (the same ones he vocally adored, unsurprisingly). If you’re not winning, every other part of your program as coach better be sound and inspire confidence that things will improve. Otherwise, this is what happens.
eh, i liked D3FB’s take on the situation much better. I agree with some of the points here, but he sounds like a teenager who is pissed that his favorite team is losing
i think he sounds like someone who bought into the kelly hype only to find out that he wasn’t who were were sold on. particularly he was right that this team never had two good halves in one game and that “big balls chip” never materialized.
i agree, but saying your were “hoodwinked” and “duped” by a false prophet?……come on man, Chip Kelly didn’t hoodwink you, you duped youself. I personally thought they would win the division with 10-11 wins, but i don’t feel i have been hoodwinked, Chip coached awful and some talented players played awful, losing causes dissension and apparently Chip doesn’t hold down the fort strong enough in those situations….maybe because he’s never had to
I do agree with the second half about Roseman….i don’t feel any certain way about Howie, but it couldn’t have helped Chip that the guy who was forced to take a demotion because of you was still lingering around Lurie. And he is also the same guy who is responsible for hiring this disaster known as Chip Kelly…..now he gets another crack at it?
and worse for our future Any decent coaching candidate will be leery of Howie’s long knives. The Marynowitz firing in particular was a petty and short-sighted move . . . Roseman should have been fired last year. The deposed don’t get to stick around in a coup, which was what happened in January. Keeping Roseman had no upside, if he was good enough to keep around he wouldn’t have been stripped of power, and while he wasn’t as bad of a GM as his detractors think he was, he also wasn’t good enough to keep around either. His cap management skills were as good as it gets, but they weren’t unique. That there will be no GM is bad sign, it makes me wonder what lessons were really learned from the Chip Kelly Experiment.
Nailed it. I disagree with original post that the team is in that bad of shape. I think the D is a good core to work from. They just need a QB, O line and some skill players…..wait, thats a lot. Never mind lol
Under the NFL rules, are we allowed to interview candidates from the teams with a bye next week? I.e., can we talk to Panthers, Cardinals, Patriots, and Bengals coordinators? There’s 3 candidates already mentioned right there (McDermott, Jackson, and McDaniels).
Bengals/Broncos – depending I should have typed.
i think yes but i also thought the bengals didn’t have a bye so wtf do i know
must be targeting a bye week special
So Lurie and team acknowledged they f’d their decision up 3 years ago, why would they think they’ll get it right this time? And I don’t get this new power and reporting structure. I think Lurie is really starting to panic about winning a Super Bowl now and doesn’t trust coaches after Reid had his meltdown and hired Castillo as his DC while he had Bowles on his staff… and now this meltdown with Chip.
he thinks howie can give it to him, we’ll see.
We didn’t have Bowles when we hired Castillo. He was still with Miami and became their interim HC in Castillo’s first season as DC. We hired Bowles that offseason.
No, I think Bowles took over after Castillo was fired halfway through… I don’t think Castillo lasted a full season. That was the season Reid hired the wide-9 guy who’s in Detroit now. At least that’s how I remember it.
We fired McDermott and DL coach Rory Segrest after the 2010 season was over. We then hired Jim Washburn as DL coach. Hiring a DL coach and tying yourself to the wide-nine scheme before hiring a defensive coordinator was our first mistake. All of Reid’s preferred choices for defensive coordinator either weren’t allowed to interview by their teams or didn’t want to run the wide-nine so the Eagles eventually hired Castillo. Castillo survived his entire first season but secondary coach Johnnie Lynn was fired. The Eagles hired Bowles as their new secondary coach. The secondary was showing signs of improvement and Castillo’s D was looking better but after a couple of bad games Castillo got fired and Bowles was promoted. Bowles was unfortunately still tied to the wide nine and he couldn’t run his own scheme. The secondary which was doing well when personally coached by Bowles went into the tank. Eventually Reid got sick of Washburn and canned him and hired Tommy Brasher out of retirement. Brasher has to be pushing 80. He went to KC with Reid.
What a mess…
He was our secondary coach during Castillo’s first ever and only attempt at DC. Somewhere around the middle of the season Castillo was fired and Bowles became DC.
They didn’t, actually. They said Chip was option 1 a. He was their unanimous decision, and they knew it was a risk. They knew he had no experience in the nfl, but they thought there was a chance he could be special. It didn’t work out that way, but that’s part of risk, there is no slam dunk.
He also emphasized that they were not risk averse in that process, and they will not be risk averse going forward.
Agree with Ark. They got exactly what they wanted 3 years ago. It was a risk and it didn’t pan out. I’m glad Lurie realized that and made the move now rather than later.
“F’d it up” 3 years ago would have been settling for their 5th choice, then replacing the guy immediately no matter what, the way the Browns and the Lolskins do occasionally.
they should have done a better job managing him i think. but they probably had to give up too much to get him, and the first year put them in a bad situation-power wise
Agreed, though that jenga tower may have started to get wobbly in the hiring process. We basically had to beg him to come here, and I’m sure that process lead to many concessions and unofficial powers, that would later become official.
I’ve always been one to think not much changed over the off season. Just accountability stuff. Like, ok, you want to do this, then it’s YOUR fault if it f’s up. I don’t think he actually had much less power before that.
Lurie def sounded like he was setting chip up to fail. i think especially w/ sending mccoy and letting maclin go.
Interesting, I wonder if ideas like that were the catalyst. Like, Lurie was like, I really don’t like having 0 marketable players, but if you are dead set on this, we’re putting your name on it in bold letters and it better work or else.
basically what he said in his PC, can’t imagine he sold many jerseys this year. would like to see what those numbers look like.
So Tommy, out of curiosity, what part(s) of Chip’s organization should remain a part of the Eagles going forward, i.e. Sports Science department, the reorganization of the scouting staff, will Training Camp move locations??, etc. etc. I realize the new regime will provide the final say, what do you think Lurie wants? He did spend a lot of money establishing those changes…
Sports Science should definitely stay at least in some capacity. I hope a new GM comes in and gets scouting and personnel straightened out. But I think we’re going to see Howie 2.0. Hopefully he’s a more improved version of his former self, and learned some things as well.
NFL.com just put up a list of top HC candidates:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000612644/article/nfl-headcoaching-candidates-the-buzz-on-the-hottest-names
Anybody you guys are really partial to? I’m kinda hoping the Saints do decide its time to part ways with Sean Payton. Just hope Sean has learned how to pick a DC.
If Payton is truly available, he’d be #1 on my list. Being that I don’t know how likely it is that he gets out of New Orleans my #1 candidate as of now is Hue Jackson.
I’m intrigued by Jackson, but also Fangio. Lots of 49ers fans are upset he didn’t get the HC job there.
fangio would e nice but that sf D had a lot of talent
Did a great job at converting CHI to the 3-4 even without a lot of talent.
I like Fangio as well, but I am just rooting for a coach with head coaching experience.
I have 2 concerns with Peyton besides the one you mentioned. One is that his success has comes hand in hand with a HOF QB, and it becomes hard to separate the 2. So what happens when you actually separate them? We have no drew Brees, nor O-line the Saints had year after year (underrated aspect of their success run). The other is even with Brees he’s years removed from success.
The hope would his message is just stale and a new location would reinvigorate him.
good football mind / strategist.
exactly, we know he’s a great coach in many aspects. So he would likely be a top candidate if available. Just would want to have a reason to believe the magic isn’t gone.
Well said. Yes, I’m kinda hoping he’s like Andy – a change would reinvigorate him.
Good point, great coach. He seems like a bit of a knob from stuff Ive read but whatever, as long as they win
To add on…
Sean Payton loves to throw the ball as much as Andy does. He would definitely has his work cut out for him if he wants to continue that pattern here. We have an OL in shambles, an unproven WR corps, and uncertainty at the QB position.
Also, Peyton’s teams have traditionally struggled on defense. Do we have faith that he can find the right coordinator?
I’m not ruling him out at all, just stating some of my reservations.
peyton + fangio?
I’d be on board
Why would he leave the Bears? Maybe if he was Asst. Head Coach, but I think other teams would give him a shot.
id give whatever title he needed, if we wanted a 34 still. could les frasier be a good hire?
Bring him back to Philly. He’s interesting, but wouldn’t want him as a HC.
nah DC
Yeah, anything more than that is a mistake. I like him as a DC, but he struggled a bit in Minny.
Fangio would have to be HC to make CHI have to allow him to interview. So, unless Payton is willing to be the OC, not happening.
Back to the 2012 front office management structure? Ugh.
Mortensen says he is 99% certain the Eagles will hire a GM, then a coach but lots others don’t including Jaworski.
Jaworski made some good points that Donahue isn’t going to jump back into this in a full time role with Roseman being the key decision-maker. Made an interesting point about Lurie’s comments mean he is going to take a more active role in player personnel too moving ahead forward.
Oh God no. I’m in DC and see first hand how well an owner’s ideas about player personnel go.
they hired a real gm, owner stepped back and now they’re in the playoffs.
Exactly. I don’t want Lurie near any football decisions.
Can’t believe that Lurie wants to do any of that. Didn’t get that from his press conference. Lurie is just more comfortable with a small collaborative group at the top than a one-man show.
I don’t get that impression either.
So supposedly Ryans and a few other players went to Roseman over the course of the season.
Maybe it was were because frustrations were so high but I have to think that Roseman fostered this to in his hopes to undermine Kelly. I don’t buy for a second that Roseman just took his lost power struggle and public humiliation in stride. Sure he look for opportunities to needle Kelly where he could while taking to Lurie about Kelly’s shortcomings. Roseman strikes me as a real schemer and backstabber. It was hinted at when he lost his power struggle last year with some dirty laundry being aired.
Everybody is talking to me about who the next coach will be but this team is going to go as far as Rosemsn takes them over the next few years. He’ll be the real power source on player personnel moves including the draft.
I don’t think Howie actually lost any power, more specifically, as anon and I mused, he never had power, that was likely given up in the desperate attempt to hire Kelly in the first place. Of course No one could publicly admit it because it was so similar to the Reid situation we were just in. I think the decisions Kelly was making were getting more and more bold, Lurie just wanted to put Chip’s name on the team in bold, officially. To hold him accountable. Drastic intentions like dumping Shady ( a marketable player for Lurie) and giving up future resources for Bradford, etc , likely catalyzed Lurie making this all official.
ya maybe, or Chip came in and just didnt like Howie or dealing with him so made his power play at some point.
In all frankness, I think people have painted Howie Roseman as duplicitous and scheming, implied that Howie and Jeffrey are inseparable, and the only reason they’ve done so is an inconspicuous antisemitism angle.
or maybe not
Or maybe not. Touche.
So no one can have an opinion because someone might take it the wrong way?
I was agreeing with you. I only made a conjecture, and as you said, it could be completely wrong.
Either way, no one knows what the hell they’re talking about, but the overwhelming narrative people just ran with just fits so nicely with comfortable stereotypes, soooo, yeeaaaah
True
cmon. I dont ever doubt that there some of that but never as an absolute
I’m definitely not saying that’s absolutely the case. It just seems like the words that get thrown around have that air to them.
now lets talk some middle east and Israel. That never gets testy
Can I bring Donald Trump into this?
not everyone, but yes, I detect it’s no coincidence that he was painted into that caricature
Seems to be a real stretch. Someone doesn’t get to where Roseman did as fast as he did without being very good at knowing how to step over people and scheming heavily.
It’s Philly, not Kings Landing, probably got where he got the way everyone else did. Kissing ass and making connections.
I’m not accusing you of antisemitism, but that comment is exactly what I’m talking about. He’s been with the team since 2000, and has steadily improved his position. You don’t do that without doing a good job and treating people well. He hasn’t duped Lurie for 16 years in a scheme to gobble up all the power.
or has he. He can be conniving and it have nothing to do with the fact that he’s jewish. But like players leaving Chip, lots of people have left the organization with not good things to say about howie, maybe it’s spite but i’d say smoke = fire.
Can’t argue against that.
will say, some people go a little crazy w/ the adjective and there could be something to that aspect of it.
Disagree very strongly have climbed up the corporate ladder. Promotions aren’t made at above the Dir. level based largely upon job performance and treating people well. if anything, you have to know where your support is, how to put into play and utilize it, and know when and how to shit on your competitors. It is not pleasant but it is how it is played especially when stretch targets are assigned to folks and scant resources allocated.
He was Banner’s protegee and then the student became the master. Why is this so hard for you to comprehend?
I hope this clears some things up. Bob, I think you are right, it’s going to be how far Roseman can take us.
https://twitter.com/RoobCSN/status/682260197285445633
Donahue is an old man at this point and he isn’t going to be a full time GM grinding out 50-60 hour weeks.
This is Roseman’s show. Go as far as he takes them over the next 3-4 years.
yup
“full time grinding out 50-60 hour weeks”
That is considered part time in the NFL. In reality I think they are working more than 80+ hours per week.
I always thought this was BS. No human being can take that for week after week. Your right it probably more than 50 hours but the hours that people self-report are dramatically overstated.
i think it’s that way for 16-20 weeks for coaches.
Yea I’m not entirely sure how the GM position works, but I’ve recently heard CK say in a press conference how they get in at something like 6AM and don’t go home until late, like 9-10pm. That is a ton of hours.
yeah, but most of it is probably bullshitting around the water cooler and surfing internet porn.
Hmm might be some more discord on the team than just Kelly.
https://twitter.com/SportsRadioWIP/status/682333954762915841
looks like guys chip drafted liked chip, guys that were andy/howie guys hated him? but everyone recognized there were flaws
The article doesn’t read as bad as the headline. He just said that if people had complaints about Kelly they should have come right out and said them instead of hiding behind anonymity.
Doesn’t surprise me. Common on teams with a coach with a strong personality. Culture to me is always overrated especially in a league where player contracts aren’t guaranteed. Team wins it smoothed over a lot of tension. Losses and players get more fixated on ‘getting mine’ in a league where little is guaranteed.
3 hours ago
Eric Rowe on Chip: “Very smart guy. He was tough. Should have been a better coach, but he showed no sign of quit.”
should have been a better coach.
Hmmm LJ talked a little about the tension between Kelly and Roseman spilling into the locker room.
http://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadelphia-eagles/lane-johnson-howie-roseman-chip-kelly-power-struggle-hurt-eagles
Sorry guys, catching up on my twitter feed. Interesting take from Riddick.
https://twitter.com/975TheFanatic/status/682322620314992640
nepotism on a friendship level. To a degree of course, we as outsiders cant really judge performance enough to know
Not really that guy has an axe to grind… just another victim of Howie Littlefinger
he’s been hated roseman, can’t really take anything he has to say for granted. anyone get banner to talk?
God this Roseman shit is going to dog the whole offseason. I wish Lurie had fired him just so we don’t have to talk about it.
its like we can’t have one drama free offseason If I could quit being an Eagles fan I would …..ugh
hey, easy there….were watching
Just saying MY love for this team is irrational and detrimental my health and others around me lol
I think Lurie just has no clue about football, i think w/out roseman he’d be lost.
Pretty simple. Roseman and Kelly couldn’t get along. Chip said he had to have total personnel control. Lurie wanted to make Chip happy but didn’t want to lose Roseman so Roseman agreed, got a raise, sat out for a year and let Chip take all the blame. He wasn’t making the personnel calls this year so you can’t really hold him accountable for this year’s failures.
think howie fanned flames at all?
I’m sure he did. People are going to have problems with that but his title is “Executive Director of Football Operations”. It was supposedly a demotion but that whole “NFL strategic matters” in the description is key. His job was to advise Lurie and evaluating the coach and head personnel guy is part of that responsibility. I know I said “sat out” but let’s be real, he still was advising Jeff. If Jeff didn’t want that, he should have fired him last year.
Do I think Roseman should be here? No. All these criticisims that people including the ex-personnel guy though pretty much amount to they didn’t like the fact that he was their boss when they thought they knew more than him. That very well may be true but regardless he’s still the boss and him critiquing them and Kelly now is part of the job description. Now should Lurie himself critique Roseman and part ways with him? Probably so. All these ex-personnel guys crying in the media, though? Sour grapes.
i think it’s a little sour grapes, but not much. Roseman was in charge of the “dream team”, correct? He did hire Kelly, no? I think it is right to question how he is still in a top position and why others keep getting held accountable and let go, but he comes out unscathed?
Usual standard is the “GM” gets to hire 2 HCs before he himself is fired.
Dumb move.
People, we need a year or two to plug holes, so, lots of young guys and eject vets. Build for another run, jettison salaries and take cap hits now. Maybe get some trade value on guys.
Which salaries? Don’t find out I if your next coach wants them first?
Roseman’s relationship with Lurie strikes me in many ways as Amaro’s relationship was Montgomery although that had much stronger nepotism overtones.
And we saw how damaging that was.
is that like snyder and rgiii?
it strikes me as a Vince Mcmahon-Shawn Michaels relationship…….i expect zero people to get this reference unless they were professional wrestling nerds like me growing up in the 90’s
..abusive?
So, everything is going to be okay because Roseman is going to “find Jesus”?
haha…..maybe he will get his “smile” back ; )
wonder if smolenski, Roseman, Donahue and Grigson will get together and do a “curtain call”
nice reference!
Does roseman get fired if a chip lead team ends up w/ a better record than us?
Hmm, I would say it’s something to watch. Like over a couple year period, then yeah. He should have never stayed.
Let’s file this under the “Well Obviously” folder.
https://twitter.com/BleedingGreen/status/682321525714882561
Can we bring in Whisenhunt as the OC?
new thread up
Forget football for a second. Look at this as what it truly is. It is a billion dollar business. Lurie, as the owner, saw his corporation going down in the quality of product and on a deeper level the quality of the workplace. People were miserable. We have heard the stories that walking past Kelly in the hallway, he wouldn’t even acknowledge your presence.
There were obvious issues at the executive level (Chip and Howie). What about the support staff? (admin staff, food services…) Maybe internally it was going down the path of a hostile workplace. Lurie wasn’t going to allow that to happen.
http://i.imgur.com/AywnlkC.png
The second Eagles Rewind is how I feel. Real concern we pulled the plug early.