Eagles Draft Talk

Posted: February 14th, 2016 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 310 Comments »

We’re all pretty sure the Eagles will take a QB at some point in the upcoming draft. What is Doug Pederson going to be looking for in a QB? We don’t know anything definitively, but we do have a few hints.

Pederson has talked about how he values the QB being able to make adjustments while at the line of scrimmage. That worked very well for the Chiefs this past season so I’m sure that is something he really wants. No rookie QB is ready to make a lot of adjustments, but some do that better than others.

Cal offensive coordinator Tony Franklin gave Jared Goff the freedom to change plays at the line of scrimmage. Cal did run a spread attack, but valued the QB being able to read the defense and make adjustments. I don’t think Carson Wentz and Paxton Lynch have as much freedom.

Wentz does play in more of a conventional offense so getting to the line, reading the defense and changing plays/protections/routes should come easier to him than someone playing in a spread attack that is built more around quick reads and sideline adjustments.

The Eagles will likely meet extensively with all 3 of the top guys. They’ll put them on the whiteboard to test their X’s and O’s knowledge. Obviously that has to match up with what they see on game tape.

One guy outside the top 3 who I think would be good with pre-snap stuff is Kevin Hogan from Stanford. He lined up under center and ran a pro-style offense. He is a smart QB and vocal leader.

On the other hand, I have no idea about someone like Cardale Jones. He has limited experience and played in a spread attack. He might be someone the Eagles pass on.

Pederson is going to run a version of the WCO. That means he will want a certain amount of mobility. All of the big 3 would fit the offense from that perspective. A late round guy like Vernon Adams might be especially interesting because of his ability to make plays with his legs. He can run to extend pass plays, giving receivers time to come open down the field, or run to gain yards on the ground.

I don’t know what Pederson thinks of arm strength. He played behind Dan Marino, Brett Favre and Donovan McNabb, 3 players with very strong arms. He coached Michael Vick, another QB with an explosive arm. Pederson spent the past 3 seasons coaching Alex Smith, a player with a weak arm. That did limit the Chiefs offense in some areas. Smith couldn’t drive the ball down the field or to the sidelines. That said, Smith made up for the lack of arm strength with his brain, legs and other skills. You can succeed without an explosive arm if you know how to use your other abilities.

Pederson has played with and coached a variety of QBs. He knows there isn’t one simple trait or style that makes or breaks a player. It will be interesting to see which prospects the Eagles show interest in and who they eventually draft.


We also expect the Eagles to address the OL in the draft. Under Chip Kelly, the Eagles focused on tall, athletic blockers. That was also true in the final 2 years of Andy Reid’s tenure, when Howard Mudd ran the O-line. He also loved athletic blockers.

The Chiefs only drafted a few OL in the past 3 years. All were at least 6-4 and had athletic builds. Pederson didn’t have much say in that, but it might have impacted his thinking. You get influenced by what you see.

Last year the Eagles showed interest in some bigger guys.

Donovan Smith  6-6, 338
Jeremiah Poutasi  6-5, 335
Darryl Williams  6-5, 327
Tyrus Thompson  6-5, 324
Tre Jackson  6-4, 330

I’m interested to see if Jeff Stoutland was the one pushing for more size or if that was an anomaly since the middle of the draft didn’t have a lot of athletic blockers.

Until we know something specific, I’ll likely focus on the quality of the blocker more than just his size and skills.


Want an interesting mid-round DE prospect? How about Ronald Blair of Appalachian State.

If Jim Schwartz does want to use the Wide-9 a lot, Blair could be a good fit. He looks a lot like Trent Cole getting down in that 4-point stance and then relentlessly going after the QB.


I need to study Jim Schwartz’s history to know more about DBs and what he’s looking for. I do think the Eagles have an interesting set of CBs in place.

Byron Maxwell
Eric Rowe
Denzel Rice
Jaylen Watkins
JaCorey Shepard
Randall Evans

That’s not Troy, Bobby and Al to be sure, but that group has some potential. I’d like to see them given a chance to play and show what they can do.

At the same time, stud CBs can be invaluable. If a great CB is on the board at 13, you could argue that would be the way to go. If you ever land a CB that tuns out to be elite (Richard Sherman, Darrelle Revis), it can transform your defense.


310 Comments on “Eagles Draft Talk”

  1. 1 Media Mike said at 7:21 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Come again?

    “Cal offensive coordinator Tony Franklin”


  2. 2 Fufina said at 7:24 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Tommy the guys over on BGN, seem to really like both Dak Prescott and Trevone Boykin, but i cannot see the fascination with either to be honest, Dak has great character but his arm just does excite me and i do not think he has the accuracy/read of the game that a Bridgewater has to make up for it at the NFL level. Boykin seems to me has similar accuracy/read of the game issues.

    Any chance you can break down those guys at some point? Would like to find out what i am missing.

  3. 3 Media Mike said at 7:26 PM on February 14th, 2016:


    I’m f-ing tired of BGN’s parade of imbicilic mobile “quarterbacking” options.

  4. 4 Fufina said at 7:28 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Well Dak isn’t exactly mobile either… he is more of a pounding fullback than a talented runner.

  5. 5 Media Mike said at 7:42 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    That isn’t ideal. He’ll just be banged up and out of the league in a hurry.

  6. 6 Howie Littlefinger said at 7:43 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    The REAL “Tebowing”

  7. 7 Insomniac said at 7:56 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    It works for Cam and Big Ben.

  8. 8 Fufina said at 8:00 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Well both Cam and Big Ben are a fair bit bigger than Dak.

  9. 9 Media Mike said at 8:06 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Big Ben misses a lot of time and is a far better passer than Dak.

    F Cam; he’ll be hurt soon enough.

  10. 10 Fufina said at 8:08 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    You really will not like Lynch once you get into watching him play since i think one of the best comps for him is Cam (although not quite as athletic).

  11. 11 Media Mike said at 8:14 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I already didn’t like Lynch, but thank you for the heads up. Lynch, from the several bad games I saw him play, is already I guy I don’t want in round 1.

  12. 12 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:50 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Big Ben also runs to buy time to throw. He isn’t calling designed runs for himself, or read option plays…, Big Ben is also as big as most Linebackers

  13. 13 Media Mike said at 7:41 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    “..the accuracy/read of the game that a Bridgewater has…..”

    LOVE Teddy!

  14. 14 Insomniac said at 7:43 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Except Bridgewater has been nothing more than a noodle armed game manager that has’t even thrown 15 TDs in a season so far..

  15. 15 Media Mike said at 7:44 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I don’t think they let him loose enough up there.

  16. 16 Insomniac said at 7:45 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    They know his limitations.

  17. 17 Anders said at 2:41 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    The thing is, Prescott and Boykin is just as good as any of the QBs after the top 3 in terms of pure passing and can add another dimension to the offense as well.

  18. 18 Eagles Draft Talk - said at 7:28 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    […] Tommy Lawlor We’re all pretty sure the Eagles will take a QB at some point in the upcoming draft. What is […]

  19. 19 The original AG said at 7:44 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Tommy – if this has been posted before, I apologize. Saw this about Schwartz leaving Buffalo when Ryan got there, and it talked a bit about his philosophy. I’m excited to see what the defense looks like with a DC that like to attack.

    “You can’t rig a defense to stop everything. You’ve got too much
    thinking. The guys that I’ve coached, they don’t want to think. They
    want to play. You don’t put a plow on a Kentucky Derby horse. Let ’em
    run and let ’em play. ”


  20. 20 Dave said at 8:03 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I’m curious about LB and safety play. They have much more responsibility vs the run. LB must fill holes since lineman won’t be playing read and react. Defensive lineman love his system, I’m not sure LBs and safeties will feel the same way.

    One nice thing that Chip left us with are backs that play press coverage well. QBs shouldn’t be able to easily avoid pressure by throwing quick passes with DBs playing off.

  21. 21 Anders said at 2:36 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Its a common mis conception that 1 gapping is harder on the LBs.

    In a 2-gap, the LB often needs to be more stout as there is a greater chance that they need to shed an OL. Outside of battling with an OL, they might have 2 gaps the RB can go, where in a 1 gap they just need to attack their gap and not even think.

    For a guy like Kendricks, just going downhill attacking a gap is much more suited than having to read the RB and the OL.

  22. 22 Dave said at 7:48 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Downhill attacking LB sounds great until it’s a pass play and the LB reacted wrong and is way out of position. Read and react is easier when you’re not playing downhill.

  23. 23 Anders said at 8:30 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    but read and react requires more of your LB and if he cant read well, it does not matter.

  24. 24 Dave said at 10:16 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    One defense requires the LB to step in and fill a gap, the other requires them to stand their ground and react off of the lineman. It’s easier to get into coverage on play action passes when you are not required to step into a gap.

  25. 25 The original AG said at 7:48 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Is it worth it to take a QB @13 or will we get more benefit in moving back?

  26. 26 Insomniac said at 7:52 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I hope we don’t forcibly take a QB at 13. Trading back would get more value if we don’t like any of the guys available at 13.

  27. 27 The original AG said at 8:12 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    This is how I feel as well. I hate forcing anything, I’m all about the patience when it comes to getting it right.

  28. 28 Insomniac said at 8:15 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Ughh the year when Ponder, Gabbert, and Locker went like top 15 should be a giant poster in every GMs room.

  29. 29 Fufina said at 8:20 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Think this is a different class to an extent. I like Goff and Wentz over any of those 3, and Lynch has far greater upside than any of the 3. Think a fairer comp will be Cook who i could see someone like the Ram reaching for in the 1st, or even worse someone like Hack going in the late 1st.

  30. 30 The original AG said at 8:22 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Here’s the question I’ll ask, which I think is relevant (even if I’m not a draftnik).

    What is the dropoff from the top 3 and the rest of the QBs in this draft?

  31. 31 Insomniac said at 8:25 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    It’s a long drop. If Wentz and Lynch are projects then the other guys are probably practice squad guys.

  32. 32 The original AG said at 8:31 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I have a ton of questions about this, but I’ll try to ask in a relevant way.

    Are Wentz and Lynch projects?
    If the top 3 are gone, do we wait until next year?
    What is the potential of the top 3 to be game-changers?

  33. 33 Fufina said at 8:39 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Wentz is project from the perspective of the huge leap up in competition and scheme. Will just struggle picking up NFL game speed and defenses because of it.

    Lynch has some footwork issues i would like him to improve, and has played in a very ‘Chip’ scheme and will be a big adjustment to an NFL offense. Think Lynch could actually work Y1 if you were willing to put him in an offense very similar to the one the Panthers used with Cam in his first year, so he might actually end up being more effective initially if you do so. However i would prefer him to learn a more conventional offense (he is more committed to the pass than Cam was in college), and solve invest time getting his fundamentals right and then i think he could be a really special QB.

  34. 34 The original AG said at 8:42 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    You really like Lynch, but the others are kinda projects.

    Would you move up for Lynch if he has to redshirt a year?

  35. 35 Fufina said at 8:48 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    depends on cost really. If i am jumping up to 9, and it costs me a 3rd i would probably do it. Just because it is rare to have a chance to get that kind potential, and if he does work out i think he could be Big Ben with better athleticism, and i think teams will look to trade up to 11 or 12 to get in front of us if he is the only QB left.

    But there are risks with him, since it is such a projection so i would not mortgage the future to so.

    Big question is does he tickle Doug’s fancy? Andy liked a QB with some mobility and a big arm unlike a lot of west coast coaches who love accuracy. Does Doug feel the same or does he want an accurate pure pocket guy?

  36. 36 The original AG said at 8:51 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    This is the fun part (at least for me) of figuring out how a coach thinks and see how he enacts a plan.

  37. 37 Insomniac said at 8:43 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I would wait. There are guys you can groom with intangibles but they are not up to par on the mental side of being a QB. That can be applied to Lynch and Wentz as well but they’re a step or two ahead of those project guys.

    Goff has the lowest ceiling of the 3 guys. Lynch has the highest due to his physical tools. Wentz is in between. If these three guys were in last years draft then I don’t think any of these guys would have went top 15. Goff might have been top 20.

    Wentz is having a huge rise in draft boards like Blake Bortles years ago. There’s a lot of similarities between the two but Bortles is a much better QB when he was drafted. Not to mention Bortles played better competition while Wentz was in D2.

    I think Goff is in the mold of a Matt Ryan type and that’s not bad considering that Ryan is a franchise QB. Lynch is projected all over the place. The thing with Lynch is that he beat up weaker teams and was a no show against top defenses.

  38. 38 The original AG said at 8:53 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Was Lynch a no-show because he isn’t good, or that the competition was that much better than his team?

  39. 39 Insomniac said at 8:58 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    A bit of both. Lynch has accuracy issues and isn’t the best at reading defenses. That being said Lynch is also the only guy on his team that will be drafted.

  40. 40 Fufina said at 9:10 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Matt Ryan is a good comp to Goff, and think Bortles is a good comp to Wentz as well, except i like Wentz a little more than i did Bortles, he throws the ball better and i think he will end up more accurate with a better feel for the game.

    I would point out that both those guys went top 10, which is where i feel Wentz/Goff will end up going as well.

    Lynch i think has a lot of similarities to Big Ben as a draft prospect, even if Lynch is more of a scrambler while Ben hangs tough in the pocket.

  41. 41 Fufina said at 8:32 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Cook is probably the most game ready QB after Goff, but he lacks arm talent and is a bit of a dick, and without a power arm or other attributes to make up for it i struggle to project him to be a quality starter.

    Think there are a range of guys who can be a Foles/Cousins types, but lack the upside of being an elite player. Is a deep draft for QB’s but i think there are only 3 guys who have the potential to become top 10 guys.

  42. 42 The original AG said at 8:35 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    If I’m a GM, this is worrisome if I want a franchise guy. I’m all good on getting other players that project to be better, and try to hit on a QB later.

    IMO #13 is still a great pick to get a game changer. If not there, trade back and get more picks to land a stud.

  43. 43 Media Mike said at 8:15 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    If they don’t have a QB valued at 13, then they really had better not try to reach for one.

  44. 44 Fufina said at 8:03 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Depends if the Eagles like any of the QB’s available at 13. If you like a QB and think they have franchise upside then the should pull the trigger or even consider a small move up to get their guy. If they don’t like whoever is left on the board then don’t force it at 13, take an elite defensive talent who is BPA (is near certain to be DT, ILB or CB), or trade back into the 20’s and pick up a RT of the future and a 2nd to use on a OG if you want to focus on the offensive line.

  45. 45 The original AG said at 8:13 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I have no idea how they want to go. I believe that if you love a player you take him, if not, trade back and hopefully get a few players you like.

  46. 46 Insomniac said at 7:51 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I hope it was an anomaly for last years scouting on OL. It wouldn’t make any sense to put phone booth guys if you want OL to pull or get to the second level.

    Blair does remind me of those Andy fastball guys, it’s a joy to watch when it works.

  47. 47 Insomniac said at 8:03 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    BGN lists these four positions as the biggest needs


    Disgusting. Matthews is not a #1 WR. Huff and Agholor have yet to prove to be anything but flashes in the pan. We don’t have anyone really capable of playing WR after those two on the depth chart. Yet DL is a bigger need?

  48. 48 Fufina said at 8:06 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Well there is nothing available in FA, and unless we take Treadwell at 13 i don’t see how we can address WR realistically this off season, as anyone we are taking in the 3rd will be tough to project as a difference maker in 2016.

    DL needs a fair bit of depth, think we could hit DT twice in the draft (Is a near certainty that there will be a DT available in the 3rd with a high 2nd round grade available).

  49. 49 Insomniac said at 8:12 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    You can find depth DTs in FA or a practice squad. You can’t say the same for a starting caliber WR. There are good WRs in the draft but this years class isn’t nearly as deep as the DL class.

  50. 50 Fufina said at 8:16 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Yeah and if we had a 2nd i would be on board, but realistically is super hard for the Eagles this year. Only WR who i take at 13 is 1) probably already gone, 2) costing you a shot at a franchise QB.

    Since the class is thin, and FA has nothing i think anyone who is a reasonable projection to be a starting WR will be gone by the mid 2nd, meaning it is either a very expensive trade up, or we are going to have to wait a year.

  51. 51 Insomniac said at 8:24 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    There are some guys that could start in round 3. Will they be as good as the higher guys when they’re drafted? Probably not but they can probably start on this team and be productive.

  52. 52 Fufina said at 8:29 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Not sure i agree, There are some guys who i think could become good WR’s but college passing route trees are so much more basic than a west coast based system. Maybe you can get a burner who runs mainly go routes initially to stretch the field but he is probably not going to be the main focus on offense.

  53. 53 Insomniac said at 8:32 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Route running is very teachable if the WR isn’t lazy. This team needs WRs if they want the QB to have any confidence in himself and the team.

  54. 54 Dave said at 8:07 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Honestly, I’d like to see Pederson take advantage of 2 receiver, 2 TE sets, with Agholor, Matthews, Ertz and Burton.

  55. 55 Media Mike said at 8:10 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I would totally agree we lack a true proven #1 and that we have more questions than answers; but that doesn’t have to make WR a priority.

    Peterson knows Reid won 11 game with Torrance Small and Charles Johnson one year and then 11/12/12 with Stinkston and Trash; and that was in an NFL where you were in much higher need of top level WR talent because the DBs could do a lot more bumping and holding. So I’d love better WRs, but I don’t want to overstate how many we need vs. other positions.

  56. 56 Insomniac said at 8:13 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Look no further than a few days ago. Cam would have won the Super Bowl if he had WRs.

  57. 57 The original AG said at 8:14 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I think if his line was better, they would have. Denver pwned their OL.

  58. 58 Media Mike said at 8:14 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    And did things he couldn’t figure out.

  59. 59 The original AG said at 8:17 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Great to watch though.

  60. 60 Media Mike said at 8:17 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Indeed! I enjoyed every minute of it.

  61. 61 Insomniac said at 8:15 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    That was part of it but his WRs couldn’t get open like 60% of the time.

  62. 62 The original AG said at 8:18 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    True, but their O was just dominated at times.

  63. 63 Fufina said at 8:18 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Totally agree, there were times (especially in the 1st half) when their OL picked up the rush… you have to make plays when that happens and no one was open and they were they dropped it.

  64. 64 Mitchell said at 8:31 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Upvote for “pwned.”

  65. 65 Media Mike said at 8:14 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    He might want to invest in passing to them in a more accurate manner.

  66. 66 Fufina said at 8:14 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Hope Doug does not quite follow in those footsteps… think you need 1 WR who can get consistent separation if in 1v1 coverage, since it makes a DC not leave 1 safety deep, 1v1 across the field and then rushing everything else. That’s what killed Carolina in the SB, and we suffered with that at times last year. If you give the QB 2 seconds he should be able to make the defense pay when they bring the heat.

  67. 67 BlindChow said at 11:51 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Seriously. Calvin Johnson was in two playoff games in nine years (and lost both) before retiring. The panic over needing some magical “true #1 WR” is overblown rubbish.

    I’d like to see what a new position coach and offensive scheme can do with these WR’s before spending yet another high draft pick on a new one.

  68. 68 The original AG said at 11:53 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I’m on this side of the fence.

    We know we need OL. We know we need DB. After that I think the needs aren’t as intense. I’d love a QB, but I don’t want to give up a ton in this draft where we could really build out a solid team.

  69. 69 Greg Richards said at 9:43 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    BGN doesn’t list those 4 as biggest need. They simply refer to an article by Evan Silva of rotoworld who thinks those are the biggest need. They even say that they think WR is a bigger need than DL.

  70. 70 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:45 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    The draft isnt going to provide a WR prospect you can count on to be better than Ags or Jordan and take care of #1!WR need, and I can assure you, we won’t be getting a #1 WR in free agency this year, because there are none… Throwing Stupid #1 WR at Marvin Jones or MIKE Wallace isn’t the answer to our problems.. Doubt Alshon is getting away from Bears who are letting Forte walk, and anyway, I wouldn’t expect Roseman to want to ink Jeffries to a Dez bryant contract that is being rumored…
    The Eagles only have 5 Wr on the roster and two are practice squad Caliber. We don’t even have enough WR for Camp, so you can bet multiple WR will be added, but they won’t be the type to count on solving our #1 WR problem from day one… An unfortunate reality Of the situation,
    Hopefully replacing Bicknell gets those young WR to grow into the players we need them to because we aremt adding a WR that will be ready to make a bigger I pact then them next year.. Our WR position will go as far as the development of our young takent takes us,.. But good chajce they add a WR no later than round 5, maybe even two Wrs..
    safety is one of our biggest needs, without Thurmon we don’t have a starting safety to pair with Jenkins .. Tobin, Barbe and Gadner are better Guard options, than anything we have at Safety, so Safety is the biggest Non QB need, then Guard, then LB, then backüp DT and WR… And need a corner if we plan on cutting Maxwell next year

  71. 71 Anders said at 2:32 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I do think the Eagles might end up taking a DL in the 1st and Im not sure if there is a WR worth spot 13. Even Treadwell scares me because of his lack of production.

  72. 72 Insomniac said at 3:35 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I think we can get away with having our current 3 RBs for another year unless Pederson thinks that Zeke Elliot is worth taking at 13. Other then that I haven’t paid any attention to the RBs in the draft class this year.

    I’m not against taking DL in the first if we trade down or if we trade Bennie Logan or Barwin/Graham before the draft. Treadwell celebrating every little thing bothers me. I like his play style but the WR draft class isn’t very strong this year. I would rather take a high upside guy like Kenny Lawler in the 3rd instead of reaching for a WR.

  73. 73 Kelce's Beard, O.G. said at 12:42 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    1) the bgn writers acknowledged they have WR over DL, they were merely commenting on other rankings
    2) as disappointing as the 2015 results seemed to be, the top 3 remaining WRs all have < 2 years of experience. natural progression, particularly with Agholor, is expected
    3) the heavy investment in TE and RB (at least for 2016), paired with the QB uncertainty and OL reshuffling, foreshadows an offense using more of the middle of the field + RB/TE mismatches
    4) neither BG nor Curry have much experience as starting 43 DEs. Aside from Cox, the rest of the DL is mostly projection. I, along with most, expect them to be good, but in truth they are still unknown.
    5) some of the premier, blue-chip talent in this draft is on the DL. If we can get a guy at 13 way more talented than the best available OT or QB, I'd personally be ok with it

  74. 74 Insomniac said at 8:30 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    The Cowgirls are going to get a damn good player regardless of how the draft plays out. Can we replay week 17 now?

  75. 75 Media Mike said at 8:34 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Hopefully they draft potential bust Bosa at 4!

  76. 76 Fufina said at 8:42 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I don’t see Bosa as being a bust, he may not be a constant 10+ sack guy but he has such a solid range of pass rush moves, is so consistent in his effort that he will get 6-8, defend the run and generally generate pressure.

    That may not be worth the No.4 pick but is not a bust.

  77. 77 Media Mike said at 8:45 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I think he’s a potential bust because his off the field issues might not go away and I’m not sure if he’s that special as an athlete to consistently win against NFL O-linemen.

  78. 78 Insomniac said at 8:45 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    God forbid they get Stanley or Ramsey. I think blood vessels would burst if they did. Fuck the Cowgirls good god I hate them.

  79. 79 Media Mike said at 8:45 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I would NOT be good with talent of that level being on Dallas.

  80. 80 Insomniac said at 8:46 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I hope they take Deforest Buckner. I don’t think he’s going to be that good and I can live with that.

  81. 81 Media Mike said at 8:48 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Buckner should be in a 3-4 as a steady type DE.

  82. 82 Insomniac said at 8:50 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Don’t tell Stephen Jones that though..he’s been pretty steady as a GM.

  83. 83 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:38 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I think Bucker will be better than Stanley

  84. 84 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:37 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Their draft boards get leaked every year it feels like… This years leak had Jalen Ramsey as the #1 player in the draft… Unfortunately I can’t blame them if they really feel that way… Hopefully the Chargers steal Ramsey before Dallas can scoop him

  85. 85 Sam Bradfords Chicken Legs said at 2:41 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Sadly the cowgirls have been making pretty good 1st round picks then they get cute after the 1st, like they’re seeing something no one else has. Gavin Escobar is one I seen Dallas fans talking about. He can’t block for shit, can be a pretty good receiver though.

  86. 86 quest4fire said at 8:42 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    A proven Super Bowl winning formula is Stout Defense with smart, savvy conservative QB, see Denver-Manning, Seahawks-Wilson, Ravens-Flacco. Similar to what Pederson had with Chiefs-Smith

  87. 87 The original AG said at 8:45 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Stout or stellar?

    Carolina had a stout defense. There’s been plenty of SB losers with stout defenses.

    I know semantics, but I think an important difference. All those teams sans Chiefs had a stellar defense.

  88. 88 quest4fire said at 9:29 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Denver had the #1 overall Defense this year, Carolina was #6.

  89. 89 The original AG said at 9:34 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    So you’re making my point? Denver had a stellar defense. Seahawks had a stellar defense (both were #1). Ravens were #1 as well. Those were stellar defenses. Way better than stout.

  90. 90 quest4fire said at 11:29 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Yes if using normal schematics, but not with football. You just dont hear the word “stellar” identified with dominant NFL defenses, you hear “stout.” Google stout defense NFL vs stellar defense NFL to see the difference.

  91. 91 A_T_G said at 11:39 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I heard that after London, Goddell’s next phase is to introduce some interstellar defenses to help grow the fan base.

  92. 92 The original AG said at 11:42 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    This is not out of question with Goodell.

  93. 93 The original AG said at 11:40 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Okay, stellar isn’t a word that’s used a lot, that’s mine. How about dominant?

  94. 94 quest4fire said at 9:11 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Sure. FYI, I agree with you about the 91 Eagles Gang Green Defense led by Reggie White were the most “dominant” defense in NFL History

  95. 95 Dave said at 9:07 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    A proven Super Bowl winning formula is a Stout Defense with a franchise QB, see Indy-Manning, Steelers-Roethlisberger, Patriots-Brady, Packers-Rodgers, Packers-Favre, Saints-Brees.

  96. 96 The original AG said at 9:15 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Manning didn’t win that SB for Indy, their running game and defense did – or in more succinct terms, Grossman won Indy the superbowl. Packers D was good enough to win the SB, but they weren’t a stellar defense. The Saints gave up over 400 yards of offense if I remember correctly. Pack & Saints weren’t exactly stout, but had stellar offenses to carry the day.

  97. 97 Fufina said at 9:16 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Both D’s were great at making turn overs, to get their QB’s 1-2 extra possessions a game to make the difference.

  98. 98 The original AG said at 9:17 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Pack played against a slow moving offense and a great defense. Saints I think had a year that just went their way, before and after that defense wasn’t as good.

    Luck plays a role in some SB runs.

  99. 99 The original AG said at 9:18 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    But I don’t disagree about the TOs though, and that was the difference this year between Denver/Carolina.

  100. 100 Dave said at 9:35 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Indy and Nola gave up 17 points in the Super Bowl. JJ would say that was stout.

  101. 101 The original AG said at 9:47 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Grossman turned the ball over 6 times. He was never a real QB, but their defense was what took them to the superbowl. NO gave up over 400 yards of offense.

    NOLA didn’t have a dominant defense, and neither did Indy. They won because their offenses were. Indy ran Chicago’s D into the ground, and the Saints just scored.

  102. 102 laeagle said at 11:33 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    You point out the actual lesson. Find what you’re good at, and be REALLY fucking good at it. That is all.

  103. 103 The original AG said at 11:40 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I agree with you.

  104. 104 quest4fire said at 9:33 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    It is easier to build a stout defense than find a franchise QB.

  105. 105 Dave said at 9:38 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    A franchise QB can carry a team for over a decade, a stout defense has to be continually maintained with top players and coaches and may only last a few years.

  106. 106 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:36 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Most of the games between Manning vs BRady, the team with the better defense won..

  107. 107 quest4fire said at 11:43 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    True it is difficult to maintain for the long term, teams like Steelers and Ravens draft really well on that side of the house. However, Franchise QB can get injured, and you are screwed like Dallas was with Weeden and Cassell. Defenses can cover the shortfall better due to scheme, depth and interchangability (eg, OLB playing ILB, CB playing S, etc) .

  108. 108 The original AG said at 11:50 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    But the Ravens still have a franchise QB. Maybe we don’t see Dilfer as a franchise QB, but having that QB increases your chance of a SB by a lot.

    The 91 Eagles (sorry Tommy) had the best D I’ve ever seen, but didn’t make the playoffs because RC was hurt and we had nothing behind him (or anything else on offense).

    Steelers have BR and that’s a franchise QB. Cowher didn’t win it until he got there. I think having a franchise QB is more important than a stout defense (most years).

    Dallas doesn’t have a dominant defense and never have. The only reason Dallas has had success is because Romo is there.

    And that hurt to say. I need a shot.

  109. 109 Dave said at 8:48 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I guess my point was that most teams that go on a Super Bowl run have good to franchise QBs and a good to great defense. If either the QB or defense are just good, but not great, they at least have the upside and ability to play great for short stretches.

    The Giants 2 Super Bowl wins with Eli fit that description. Heck the 2005, 2007, and 200 Super Bowl winners were wild card teams that all had good to franchise QBs whose teams went on hot streaks during the playoffs.

  110. 110 quest4fire said at 9:04 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Right. Gotta make the playoffs first, hope that you’re healthy and pray for a hot streak. I felt Pittsburgh could’ve went all the way if it werent for injuries.

  111. 111 Dave said at 9:12 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    It sucks to think with all the talent the Eagles had in the early 2000s on defense and Donny at QB, that every year they laid an egg in one playoff game, ending their season.

  112. 112 quest4fire said at 10:56 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Aye, Reid always ended up over thinking things. I remember screaming at the TV when its something like 3rd and 2 and Reid calls for a 50 yard bomb to Stinkston or Trash that was overthrown, worm burned or dropped.

  113. 113 Media Mike said at 9:17 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    How does Eli = good to franchise? He’s average at best.

  114. 114 Dave said at 9:49 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I’m not a big Eli fan, but you think if Eli is average at best, then McNabb is the same or worse.

  115. 115 Media Mike said at 10:32 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Negative. Eli is far worse than McNabb. Run their career numbers side by side.

  116. 116 Dave said at 10:47 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I did and didn’t see an appreciable difference.

    I did find this from a quick Google search (prior to Eli’s 2nd Super Bowl win):

    Clearly, Donovan McNabb’s running ability differentiated him from Eli (and most other quarterbacks). The major differences below are the interceptions, which affects the passer rating, and the sacks. To us Giants fans, the #1 difference will always be the number of Super Bowl victories.

    REGULAR SEASON (first 105 starts)

    WON/LOSS/PCT: Eli 61-44 .581, McNabb 68-37 .648

    ATT: Eli 3,385, McNabb 3,449

    COMP: Eli 1,966, McNabb 2,021

    COMP PCT: Eli 58.1%, McNabb 58.6%

    PASSING YARDS: Eli 23,071, McNabb 23,694

    YARDS/ATT: Eli 6.8, McNabb 6.9

    YARDS/COMP: Eli 11.7, McNabb 11.7

    TD: Eli 158, McNabb 160

    INT: Eli 115, McNabb 73

    PASSER RATING: Eli 80.3, McNabb 86.2

    SACKS/SACK YDS: Eli 172/1,221 McNabb 268/1,655

    4th QTR/OT COMEBACKS: Eli 14, McNabb 17

    OPPONENT’S W/L PCT: Eli 841-808 .510, McNabb 808-872 .481

    OPPONENT’S DEFENSE RANK AVG. (YDS) Eli 16.2, McNabb 15.9

    PLAYOFFS (first 7 starts)

    SUPER BOWLS: Eli 1, McNabb 0

    WON/LOSS/PCT: Eli 4-3 .571, McNabb 4-3 .571

    ATT: Eli 193, McNabb 248

    COMP: Eli 113, McNabb 150

    COMP PCT: Eli 58.5%, McNabb 60.5%

    PASSING YARDS: Eli 1,300, McNabb 1,459

    YARDS/ATT: Eli 6.7, McNabb 5.9

    YARDS/COMP: Eli 11.5, McNabb 9.7

    TD: Eli 8, McNabb 9

    INT: Eli 7, McNabb 6

    PASSER RATING: Eli 77.6, McNabb 79.0

    SACKS/SACK YDS: Eli 14/76 McNabb 20/128

    4th QTR/OT COMEBACKS: Eli 3, McNabb 0

    300 YARD GAMES Eli 0 McNabb 0

    OPPONENT’S W/L PCT: Eli 81-30 .730, McNabb 79-32 .712

    OPPONENT’S DEFENSE RANK AVG. (YDS) Eli 6.7, McNabb 8.3

  117. 117 Media Mike said at 1:04 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    So due to Eli being an INT factory (and turnovers lose you games ever time) I’ll take Donovan.

    Donovan also made 6 pro bowls in 11 seasons.
    Eli has made 4 in 12 seasons.

    Eli also benefits from playing in the NY media market that overrates any player from it. Eli also routinely was gifted favorable calls from the refs on VERY suspect roughing the passer calls, delay of game, intentional groundings (which account for his lower sack totals), and illegal forward passes.

  118. 118 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:59 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Super Bowl formula isn’t that complicated… Strive for the best Offense, Defense and Special Teams that you can build..
    Any position can be weaponized or can be an Achilles Heel, respect them all, devalue none…

  119. 119 quest4fire said at 11:34 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    True but Eagles defense is much closer to weaponization than the offense at this point. ST are close as well.

  120. 120 Bert's Bells said at 7:42 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    So you’re saying the formula to win the Super Bowl is to be the best team in all phases of the game?

    I hope the ink isn’t dry on Pederson’s contract -looks like we found the right guy here.

  121. 121 Fufina said at 9:15 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Flacco/Wilson are not conservative game managing QB’s. Both were unproven when they won but both made consistent big aggressive plays to with the SB.

    Think you need a good defense and solid offense and something more to win the SB. That bit more can be a historically good defense, a great QB, a special running game or some kind of voodoo luck.

  122. 122 quest4fire said at 9:38 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    There are many ways to win the SB from the Greatest Show on Turf to 85 Bears, if the D is great, they can keep you in the game til you can hit the big aggressive play or voodoo luck in end.

  123. 123 bill said at 8:59 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Eh…Wilson was anything but consistent in the playoffs. Tough to call him more than a game manager when he wins playoff games with a stat line of 9/18, 103 yds, 0 TD. And that was his worst, but he’s had more ‘bad’ playoff games than good. That team was all about the defense and great run game (which Wilson was admittedly an influence on with his running).

  124. 124 Media Mike said at 9:18 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    You do realize that Wilson has improved each and every year, led the NFL in rating this year, and broke an NFL record for consecutive games with 3+TDs and 0 Ints?

  125. 125 Will:↑↑↓↓←→←→BA said at 9:23 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Agreed. Wilson shredded that Game Manager label this year. Turned Doug Baldwin into a pro bowl Caliber WR too.

  126. 126 Media Mike said at 9:45 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I’m really a huge fan of how Wilson plays. And I have no proof of this, but I bet he would have been able to do that earlier if Seattle had to play from behind more often.

  127. 127 A_T_G said at 10:02 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    That is truly a positive endorsement, considering your tendency to have a negative view of QBs that can run.

  128. 128 Media Mike said at 10:32 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    He’s not a running QB. Those people don’t get to claim him. Wilson = Steve Young. Brilliant football mind who can make a ton of throws and run when needed. But he’s not a brain dead read one and run / slow eyes / can’t make progressions type turd.

  129. 129 bill said at 4:55 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    “consistent” is the term I had the most issue with. Consistently a game manager in IN THE PLAYOFFS? Sure. Consistently a playmaker? Not even close. Did you see his playoff games this year? Did see his game against GB last year that required a special teams miracle after his disastrous start? Did you see the game against the saints in 2014 where he put up a grand total of 103 yards on 9 (no, that’s not a typo!) completions?

    He’s become a solid regular season QB. He’s not been anything more than a game manager in the playoffs his whole career. And I think that will continue, as if you watch this year’s playoff games, defenses schemed to keep him in the pocket, and brought a late blitzer from the left or center. Wilson doesn’t have good pocket vision or feel – he’s at his best when he escapes contain and can use his feet to buy time in the open field. But take that away from him, and he’s as likely to have a game like vs. Panthers or vs. Saints as he is to do any of the regular season stats you’ve quoted.

  130. 130 Media Mike said at 8:47 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Here is a Wentz draft.

    Round 1 Pick 13: Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State (A+)
    Round 3 Pick 14: Kyle Murphy, OT, Stanford (B)
    Round 3 Pick 16: Sebastian Tretola, OG, Arkansas (A-)
    Round 4 Pick 15: Kenny Lawler, WR, California (A+)
    Round 5 Pick 14: Deiondre’ Hall, CB, Northern Iowa (A)
    Round 5 Pick 23: Jerell Adams, TE, South Carolina (A)
    Round 6 Pick 13: Aziz Shittu, DE, Stanford (B+)
    Round 7 Pick 12: Antwione Williams, OLB, Georgia Southern (B-)
    Round 7 Pick 30: Jordan Lucas, SS, Penn State (A-)

  131. 131 Fufina said at 8:52 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Love the theory of it, although i would feel sad if we did not get some DT’s at some point since that is the great strength of this draft class.

  132. 132 Media Mike said at 8:54 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    No doubt we could use another DT to put in the mix. I’m just generally trying to avoid reaching if I can help it. None of the DTs seemed to hit at the pint where they felt like good value when I was picking.

  133. 133 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:33 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Yeah, the DT needs to have some interior pass rush ability to play next to Baeu allen on the 2nd, And backüp Cox. What DT would really be worth 13? A’shawn who is more run stuffer than an interior pass rusher.. Not sure their will be a DT at 13 that fits and is worth the pick…
    If Wentz isn’t available, and there is no one we really love, Id be fine drafting Jaylon Smith is he is still available and come away with a legit top prospect. Assuming Doctors trust he will recover, he got hurt in January, doubt he has to miss an entire rookie season, and hopefully we can start Kiko, Hicks and Mychal in September, not having to count on the kid too soon…id be fine taking Myles Jack if he happened to be the best player available. Reminds me of a Sean Lee, and we Need more LB Talent…

    Or roll the dice on Noah Spence talent, and hold our breathe that he doesn’t swan dive off a building one night thinking he can fly tripping off a bad PCP high..
    Last time we picked on this range we came away with COX! Hopefully we can make it count again this time and add a high end yoûng talent

  134. 134 The original AG said at 8:57 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Tommy, should I be worried that the QBs that Pederson played behind all didn’t have running attacks as a feature of the offense (including the Chiefs)?

    I love a team that can run the ball, but the coach has to be willing to pound the rock. Andy wasn’t that coach, and those teams were all passing teams.

    Please tell me Pederson will be different.

  135. 135 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:19 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Did you see how Impressive KC run game was this yeàr and how KC committed to the run even without Jamaal Charles? I assume it wasn’t pass happy Andy’s idea…

  136. 136 The original AG said at 11:00 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I want to believe you, but I have to wait and see. I’m a fan of a great run game, so I hope that’s what we see.

    I think about Schwartz’s comments on 97.5 w/Anthony. Maybe Pederson runs a WC offense, or maybe he runs a different offense w/WC concepts. Schwartz said all 32 teams have WC concepts in their offense, the same way that all defenses have some bit of the 46 ingrained w/in the defense.

    I just want to see an offense that isn’t pass happy at the expense of the run game.

  137. 137 Gian GEAGLE said at 11:05 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    So you think Andy was more responsible for KC’s Committment to the run using backüp RBs? Doesn’t sound like the Andy I know, and if its not the head coach Andys doing, next best guess would be the OC influenced it.
    But you are right, no way to know until we see it

  138. 138 The original AG said at 11:09 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    This picture is how I feel. I don’t know anymore. The only team right now that I’m semi-comfortable with is the Flyers, and they aren’t a playoff team. This is the state of our city’s teams, so yeah I’m scared of the worst.


  139. 139 Gian GEAGLE said at 11:11 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Love where the Sixers are at… This is the end of asset Accumilation Phase, in store for some serious team growth from the SIXERS next year

  140. 140 The original AG said at 11:13 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    We disagree about the Sixers. I’m really upset with this season. They have the talent to win games, but keep losing in the last 4 minutes of games.

    I kinda feel betrayed. I was okay with shedding bad contracts and tanking for a couple seasons to move forward. This was the year we should have started winning, and we’re losing winnable games.

  141. 141 Gian GEAGLE said at 11:23 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Not really…. Started the season with 7 new players, and the youngest team in the league, no surprise that the first half of the season was going to be really bad, which is the plan since we went into tbe season wanting a top 3 pick… This is the last year we planned to be bad, but it’s far from a waste, young players are developing. All these new players are gelling… This was always the last year of asset accumilation phase and they year is going perfectLy as planned, our young players are growing throughut the season, while unexperience costs us wins at the end allowing us to improve without messig up our chamce to get a top pick… Why you ever expected a season with improvements in the win column, I have no idea,,
    Good news: Starting next year everything becomes about trying to win more and more games,,, this team will take a big leap next year and probably just miss the 8th seed in the east..all according to plan so far, how can we be dissapointed when the plan is playing out? Unrealistic expectations is the only way you can be dissapointed about how the SIXER team is unfolding.,… Most give all the credit to ish, but brett brown was given a new roster each year, and each years we start off real bad until we get a bit and show plenty of growth the second half of the year… Then Hinkie adds 5 new players in the offseason and the process starts over again with a rough start, improved second half of season,,, with or without Ish we were always going to see growth the second half of this season..
    Noel and Jah NEVER played in a two tower Offensek whether people realized it or not, it would take years not Months for Tbose two to grow into a force.. Jah never played man to man defense before this year. His defensive development was always going to take years , not months,.
    Only way you can be dissapointed is if your expectations were out of whack… This year to NEXT year was always the planned end of asset accumilation phase, entering the growth phase…

  142. 142 The original AG said at 11:28 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I didn’t think they’d make a deep playoff run, but they have talent on this team. I think where they lacked talent was at the PG position. Ever since we brought Ish back, we’ve been a much better team. I feel like we could have had an extra 6-8 wins if he was here at the beginning of the season.

    There is a bit of my expectations being out of whack, but I wanted them to be the best team in Philly @the beginning of june. When my son is born, I wanted to take our first pictures with the best team in Philly at the time (we’re going to do this with all the kids we have), and they were my dark horse team to do it this year.

  143. 143 Bert's Bells said at 7:40 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I’ve met that dude a few times. Righteous mensch. Heckuva a nice man.

  144. 144 The original AG said at 12:02 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    My wife loves the guy, and I’ve watched many a show with him in it.

  145. 145 eagleyankfan said at 8:08 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I’m with you on this. Who Pederson played behind will have little, if any, impact on how he coaches. Where Pederson DID coach was all run run run. I have no concerns about a run attack. Eagles will be committed to a run attack. IF there is a concern is the lack of concentration of passing game. KC seemed to feature 1 WR and 1 TE the entire season.

  146. 146 Gian GEAGLE said at 5:16 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    I don’t know how true it is, but it’s said that Childress was the Run game Ying to pass happy ANDYs Yang, and when Childress was replaced with Pass Happy Marty Morningweigh andy really got crazy with the pass happy offense…. Allegedly,,Pederson has been more of a Childress run game influence to ANDYs offense, instead of a Marty type who is just as Pass happy as Andy.
    I would assume that anyone who has played QB understands how important It is for a QB to have a solid run game
    You wanna know how important running the ball is, just look at what’s #1 on the top of every DC’s list going into the playoff game… It’s no Coincidence that you see “STOP THE RUN” at the top of every DCs Gameplan going into every playoff game.,
    If stopping the run is so important to every single DC, it’s probably safe to assume that being able to run the ball especially in cold weather playpff games is very Important to most offenses… One of the biggest reasons for Seattles success was that BEASTMODE was able to run the ball in January against top playpff defenses who went into every game focused on stopping the run game first and foremost.and the fact that BEASTMODE was able to run It anyway played a HUGE ROLE in Seattles playof success…
    When Denver shut down the elite Panther run game, denver defenders were able to pin their ears back, and we saw,that Panther offense crumble
    the Super Bowl would have been a very different game if that Panther OL was able to Bully the Denver defense and get their run game going.
    I wouldn’t assume that Every assistant coach to come up under Andy agrees with ANDYs pass happy approach. I don’t recall many of ANDYs assistats going on to head coaching jobs being as pass happy as Andy… Harbaugh teams and Rvera teams don’t seem to share ANDYs pass happy approach…

  147. 147 Gian GEAGLE said at 5:21 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    They also threw to RB a lot when Jamaal Charles was healthy.. Im pretty damn excited by how much better Pederson should use Sproles in the passing game compared to how predictable chips use of SPROLES was when it came to the passing game.. I think SPROLES will be more valuable to the offense than he ever was under chip… Although Chip probably used him more in the run game than Doug will

  148. 148 ACViking said at 11:00 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    In Reid’s 3 seasons, the Chiefs have run the ball:

    – 442 (2013)
    – 420 (2014)
    – 436 (2015)

    Nothing’s changed in 3 seasons.

  149. 149 Mitchell said at 9:09 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Just watched some Conklin and I agree with those who would pass on him at #13. I think OL at that spot are reserved for LTs or once in a generation OG/RT. I thought Conklin had slow feet and will get abused by speed to the outside in the NFL. When he has to pass set he plays too upright amd I fear he will get out leveraged at the next level. However his run blocking was probably better than both Tunsil and Staley. He looks much better attacking that waiting for the defender. He looks like a guy you would want to run behind in 3rd and short situations. In fact, several times he generated excellent push on short yardage plays against Ohio St., Oregon and Baylor. He also does a good job of getting to the next level and passing defenders off as he moves. Overall, a solid player with questionable feet for a LT at the next level. That being said, he looks above average in run blocking and should develop into an above average RT. Pick 13 is too rich for my blood as there will undoubtably be better players available but if the Eagles were to trade back into the mid 20’s, it would be a solid pick.

  150. 150 Fufina said at 9:18 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    totally agree and that matches up to most scouting reports. He is a reach at 13 and would be disappointing since there are 3-4 guys like him in this draft, trade down and get him in the 20’s if you want to focus on offensive line.

  151. 151 Insomniac said at 9:37 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Conklin might just end up being a second round pick. I can see Decker being picked in the mid 20s for a team that needs a RT.

  152. 152 Media Mike said at 8:24 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Hope that isn’t us. I’m really not a Decker fan. I think he gets abused in the NFL at either tackle as well.

  153. 153 Anders said at 4:51 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    You want a guy who cant play LT to play RT and face the likes of JJ Watt and Von Miller instead?

    If a guy cant play LT, he cant play RT either.

    Conklin should be a guard imo.

  154. 154 Mitchell said at 7:54 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I guess I figured if speed guys are coming mostly from the left but occassional at hom on the right he will be ok. I can see him at guard.

  155. 155 Anders said at 8:29 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I know most of them play in the AFC, but a good chunk of the best pass rushers rush from the right like: Von Miller, Houston, Watt, Hughes, Wake etc.

  156. 156 Mitchell said at 8:51 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Maybe thats part of the reason they are so good? They rush against “inferior” pass blockers.

  157. 157 Anders said at 9:31 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Those guys rush from both sides, but in theory it makes sense to have your best pass rusher on the offensive right side to take advantage of the inferior RTs

  158. 158 Mitchell said at 11:42 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Yes it does. It got me thinking why are LTs so important? If the rushers are coming from everywhere why not have the LT move to RT? I would imagine that because the LT protect the blindside, you need your best player there so the qb doesnt take the hits and you dont lose the most important player.

  159. 159 Anders said at 2:01 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    But if the QB is looking to his left, he will take a blind side from the LDE

  160. 160 Media Mike said at 2:06 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Unless he’s been blessed to have been born left handed!

  161. 161 Mitchell said at 5:49 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    I understand but a right handed thrower has back to the LT a majority of the time.

  162. 162 Media Mike said at 8:23 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Correct! I’m not a fan on his in round 1 for that reason. Too many foot questions. I have the same beef with Decker from Ohio State.

    Also, I have a hunch they both come is really weak on the bench press rep numbers.

  163. 163 Joe Minx said at 9:56 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I had a dream the other night that the Eagles drafted Jake Rudock in the 5th round.

    Needless to say I hope this does not ever become reality.

  164. 164 NinjaP said at 4:47 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Sounds more like a nightmare.

  165. 165 A_T_G said at 7:49 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Well, yeah, needless to say.

    (looks around to see if I am the only one who doesn’t know why Jake Rudock in the 5th is obviously terrible. Slinks off to the Google.)

  166. 166 Media Mike said at 8:21 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Ew. I think “talentless” comes to mind when looking at Rudock.

  167. 167 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:14 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Wentz played in cold weather and has some arm strength to him…. Sigń bradford and draft Wentz is my ideal scenario

  168. 168 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:56 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Again Schwartzy is talking about how Barwin is perfect DE in his defense and how most of Barwins best plays come from rushiñg the passer.. The new linebacker coach also doesn’t expect to be working with Barwin,,, dead that SAM Linebacker talk

  169. 169 The original AG said at 11:04 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I figured. I’m higher on Barwin at DE than most in this defense. But Cox/Curry/Logan is a nice group to work with. Those three will get Barwin free at times, and I think he’s good enough to pick up the pieces.

    But I also expect him to split time w/Graham at that spot who I also think will be a bigger stud there.

    I think the good thing w/Barwin is that he can play DE on both sides, and LB in a pinch. Depth is the most underrated thing in the NFL.

  170. 170 Gian GEAGLE said at 11:09 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    In schwartz defense, you really need two waves of DE’s and DTs, because you are asking them to explode up field on every play.. After 6 or 7 plays exploding up field, you need the next wave of DEs and DTs to come in… Everyone uses a DL rotation, but you really need it using a schwartz or Jim Washburn style Defensive front…. barwin, Vinny and BG isn’t even enough.. We need MS2 to also contribute, so I really wouldnt worry about Curry, Barwin and BG needing to split snaps… You really need 4 DEs and 4DTs that you can use in every game, and that’s not even accounting for injuries

  171. 171 The original AG said at 11:11 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I’m excited for MS2 this year. Athletic guys need to be able to “hunt” and he didn’t get that shot under Kelly. Schwartz will find ways for him to do that, and if he can’t, then we’ll find someone else.

  172. 172 Bert's Bells said at 7:34 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I like the “last chance” aspect. Either he plays well, or he’s heading to the CFL or a car dealership near you.

  173. 173 Will:↑↑↓↓←→←→BA said at 7:40 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Of have success with another team

  174. 174 Bert's Bells said at 7:44 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Possible, but long odds there.

  175. 175 Will:↑↑↓↓←→←→BA said at 7:48 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I not big on Smith but I think he can play. I think him just rushing the passer and trying to play in space will benefit him

  176. 176 Bert's Bells said at 8:14 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Right on. I’m only saying that the chances of a player making it in the NFL after three years of not showing anything are slim.

    I’m also hoping that he can play well and be an effective pass rusher in 2016 and beyond (for the Eagles).

    It just may be a “do or die” year for him. That makes it more interesting as a fan.

  177. 177 Gian GEAGLE said at 5:02 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    I hear you… Im not even close to being ready to rule out MS2.. He is going into year 3, by now his level Of strength should be where we need it to be to battle Pro Tackles…. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if we find out that he can play.. A lot of his teammates swear that he can play and just needs an opportunity

  178. 178 A_T_G said at 11:14 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Wow, between changing your view and warming up the the QB options a bit and ending with the SAM talk is dead I thought you were bailing on Bradford for a moment.

    I don’t know if you saw in the last thread, I wondered why you hope to bring back Carroll but not Thrmond. Fit? Cost? To me, Thurmond leaves a bigger hole with fewer options that might fill it.

  179. 179 Gian GEAGLE said at 11:27 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    Thurmond looking for big pay day, Caroll talked about being open to hometown discount….thurmond already acknowledged that the money will Probably mean he won’t be back…I prefer keepimg Thurmond, I just view Nolan as being more realistic possibility..
    And I always said signing SAM doesn’t mean we don’t need to find a young QB, it just allows us to not act out of desperation… But if see a special QB when we pick, they should ALWAYS draft him, even if we have a franchise QB already… But no Im not sold on any of the prospects in this draft which is why I feel better about drafting them if we already have a QB I like in Bradford

  180. 180 A_T_G said at 11:34 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    I just wonder how far apart a big payday for a nickel corner that can play safety is from a discounted payday for a starting corner that can play nickel.

    And there is nothing wrong with too many QBs. I just meant that drafting Wentz as your ideal scenario is a shift from hating the whole QB class as none of them being worth a damn. But that is what this time of year is for.

  181. 181 Gian GEAGLE said at 8:02 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I certainly don’t like Wentz enough to draft him every year, but they have to find a young QB in the next couple of drafts, and for me, taking a flier on Wentz is much more bearable than seeing us draft Goeff, Cardale or Hackenburg… Paxton also scares me… But, no, I don’t love Wentz at all, and would be perfectly happy Not Drafting a QB in the first 3 rounds of this draft
    Thurmond can play almost any position in a secondary. All it takes for is one team to offer him some nate Allen deal and he is probably gone.. Where as nolan sounds like someone who really wants to be an eagle
    Also when you look around at WHATS available, I like a handful of free agent safeties more than the corners available… Id rather pay for a safety and bring Nolan back as depth, than to pay Thurmond and look to add a corner…. But really, I would be happy to have thurmond or Nolan back, as long as we don’t lose both, I’ll be happy with whichever they decide to retain, I just think it will be easier to keep Nolan in philly..

  182. 182 Media Mike said at 8:19 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Thurmond is getting paid by somebody else at a much higher level. Shame, but we live in capped world.

  183. 183 A_T_G said at 9:40 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Do we have any estimates what kind of yearly average each will end up getting?

  184. 184 Media Mike said at 9:46 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Given the poop safety talent in the league and the versatility shown by Thurmond; I’ll go

    2.5 AAV Carroll
    5 AAV for Thurmond

  185. 185 A_T_G said at 9:53 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Ugh. That is a bigger difference than I would have thought.

    Still, I think Carroll plus a safety that I am comfortable penciling in as the starter costs more than Thurmond plus a nickel corner that I am comfortable with as competition for Shepherd and Rice.

  186. 186 Will:↑↑↓↓←→←→BA said at 10:02 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I’m ok with letting Carrol go. I thought Rowe looked good except for that Detroit game. I thought he got better as the year went on.

    I’m also ok with giving Couplin a chance or drafting a Safety. I like Thurmond but I wouldn’t mind some more toughness back there

  187. 187 Gian GEAGLE said at 4:58 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Givng Couplin a chance is fine.. But you damn sure can’t go into a season Penciling Couplin in as a starter. Safety is easily our biggest defensive NEED that needs to be addressed with a quality Free,agent, or safety drafted no later than round 4… Big big NEED even if we think Reynolds and Couplin still have potential

  188. 188 Will:↑↑↓↓←→←→BA said at 12:12 AM on February 16th, 2016:

    Yes. No matter what happens I think we should draft a S

  189. 189 Media Mike said at 1:10 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Yeah. Thurmond is a really solid football player; he’s just fragile. Somebody is going to pay him well for his luck in playing all 16 games here last year.

  190. 190 Gian GEAGLE said at 4:56 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Wonder if the Giants try and bring him back to NY

  191. 191 Gian GEAGLE said at 4:56 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Thurmond can play Outside corner being not too short of 6ft but having freakishly long arms,. He can also play Nickel, Dime and Safety…. And Thurmnd made it sound like he plans on signing with the highest bidder. Id love to see walt back, but outbidding everyone for his services DOESNT seem realistic to me…. But I’d love to be wrong and keep Walt instead of Nolan, I just THNK Nolan offers better odds of remaining in Philly. He wants a fair deal And to stay in Philly, he doesnt sound to want to go the mercenary route like Maxwell and Thurmond signing with whoever offers the most..
    Unfortunately keeping Nolan isn’t a given either, but I would hate to lose both, and I really don’t like Losing Eagles who were clearly still improving like SAM and Nolan… Im a big Thornton fan, he is a nice player, but didn’t show much growth this year, thus it’s easier for me to see him go, than to lose Eagles who were still clearly improving which means that we,have Obviously npt seen their best yet… Nolan had a beast of an Offseasn. Id love to see how much better he can be with another pffseason of work

  192. 192 A_T_G said at 6:14 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Yep, that all sounds reasonable.

  193. 193 Media Mike said at 8:20 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    And Barwin was tweeting at people something about playing with his hand in the dirt after folks were asking him. And that was after the Schwartz hire.

  194. 194 Gian GEAGLE said at 4:48 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Barwin on two different interviews, first said he expects to play DE,NOT Outside LB, and in the second interviews he claims that Schwartz told him he would be a DE..
    The guy has like 20 Sacks the last two years, be pretty foolish to move him to SAM, especially when Schwartz will still use Barwin and BG ability to drop into coverage from the DE spot… im actually excited about seeing Barwin Rush from some 9 technique… I love the way he chains pass rush moves and counters together and he should be even harder to keep off QBs now that we will put the Tackle on an Island and give Connar more room to chain together moves TIL he gets to the QB
    Pass rush is the single most IMPORTAMT skill on defense.. You don’t take one of your best pass rushers and ask him to do something else…

  195. 195 ACViking said at 4:53 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    You don’t take one of your best pass rushers and ask him to do something else…

    True. (ask Trent Cole, circa 2010)

    But why did Kelly and Davis play Barwin at LOLB — instead of the far more impactful ROLB for a pass rusher?

  196. 196 A_T_G said at 11:08 PM on February 14th, 2016:

    On the Ronald Blair clip, get up to full speed then smash your helmet into the tackle’s facemask? That is still something we teach college kids?

  197. 197 Anders said at 7:00 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Looks effective if you can pull it off

  198. 198 xmbk said at 9:50 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    It’s coached as “get lower”.

  199. 199 NinjaP said at 4:43 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I hope we take a Qb at 13 or trade down. 13 is a dead mans land for us if the top 3 qbs dont fall.

  200. 200 Fufina said at 5:36 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Depends on what your aim is. If it is wins in 2016 i would agree if it is building the best team for 2017 or 2018 maybe not. If you get a great corner back at 13, you could have a legitimate pair of long term corners, who would be under team control on cheap contracts for a long time which is transformative on defense.

    Drafting an elite DT to pair with Cox and Logan would give us a deep rotation to get interior pressure, which is vital to make 4-3 really work and to disrupt elite QB’s.

    ILB is harder to justify outside of BPA, because i am high on Hicks and think Alonso and Kendricks can recover their form in the future, but Ragland would look to be a perfect LB to anchor a 4-3 where the mike is going to have to handle pulling OL on a regular basis.

    If Treadwell is there at 13 makes sense on offense as well.

  201. 201 Will:↑↑↓↓←→←→BA said at 7:38 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    A top CB can fall to 13. I would be ok with LB Jaylon Smith too

  202. 202 Media Mike said at 8:18 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Can you promise that Smith won’t Emiid us? I love his talent, but that knee is scary.

  203. 203 Will:↑↑↓↓←→←→BA said at 8:58 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    He’s expected to ready to go for the season already. If he is given a clean bill of health I’d be ok with him at 13

  204. 204 Bert's Bells said at 7:33 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Does the Cal OC make Goff play wearing only one shoe?

  205. 205 Media Mike said at 8:25 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Posting a Tony Franklin football card was the first thing I did with this thread.

  206. 206 botto said at 12:05 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    ha! I was wondering if it was that tony franklin.

  207. 207 eagleyankfan said at 8:12 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I have not idea of the Eagles game plan…but “We’re all pretty sure the Eagles will take a QB at some point in the upcoming draft.” — I’m not part of that “We’re”. I don’t think you force it – and it sounds like from the article that the Eagles will take one – just because.
    No questions the Eagles want a QB – but if the QB’s in the draft don’t “fit” or aren’t available when you pick – why take one if none of them fit your requirements? I’m ok if the Eagles don’t take one. I don’t believe in the “throw a dart” theory.

  208. 208 Media Mike said at 8:17 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    The counter to that is that they “need” to trade up and aggressively go get their guy if they’re not into just taking “any” QB as that guy falls to where they’re comfortable.

    But you’re 100% correct that they might wind up grading all of the guys in this QB class as poop and want none of them.

  209. 209 Media Mike said at 8:28 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    On the corner group:

    Awareness, Awareness, Awareness.

    This D is going to generate a ton of pressure up front; will the CBs be ready to make plays on the football when throws are forced?

  210. 210 Kelce's Beard, O.G. said at 10:12 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    +1. nice.
    I’m big on the kid from Houston for that reason

  211. 211 Media Mike said at 10:29 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    The extra good thing is that Schwartz tends to like violent safety play. I remember screaming F U at Delmas a few times when he was playing for Schwartz in Detroit. If we get a terrorist playing next to Jenkins, I’ll be pumped.

  212. 212 Will:↑↑↓↓←→←→BA said at 10:34 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Check our boy, Rowe working on his footwork and hips

  213. 213 Media Mike said at 10:40 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Welcome to Death Rowe!

  214. 214 D3FB said at 11:02 AM on February 15th, 2016:


  215. 215 Mac said at 11:06 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I’m not trusting info from anyone who DeSean Jackson’s the football before crossing the goal line.

  216. 216 A_T_G said at 1:42 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    I saw the same thing (and immediately commented without reading any further).

  217. 217 Will:↑↑↓↓←→←→BA said at 11:08 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Is that what you take from a CB working on his feet and change of direction?

  218. 218 D3FB said at 11:20 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Pretty much. It’s about as much as I took out of Lane doing MMA last year. I’m glad they are working to get better. But I already knew that. Just like bears shitting in the woods. I don’t need video confirmation.

  219. 219 Will:↑↑↓↓←→←→BA said at 11:31 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    What are you the fun police? Or the one upper?

    Did you ever play DB? A lot of these drills simulate movements a corner will need to make right off the line of scrimmage and/or when a WR hits his break.

  220. 220 D3FB said at 11:41 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Again, it’s shit high schoolers do. It’s not ohmygerdlookatdis. Yes its translatable. But I’m not gonna watch a video of Kelce doing power cleans and be like DUDES, this is translatable! Violent explosion through the hips! Why? Because I know Kelce does olympic lifts. Just like I know all of our DBs do ladder and footwork drills.

  221. 221 Will:↑↑↓↓←→←→BA said at 11:44 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Great you don’t care… why take the time to express that you don’t care? Next time you don’t care about something … don’t care enough to let me know

  222. 222 D3FB said at 11:49 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    I bet I can find a video of Sam Bradford throwing a football or JMatt running windsprints for ya. You can get all jazzed up for those too. Maybe a link to a player being interviewed, ya know have to be able to communicate to be the bestest and whatnot.

  223. 223 the DONALD said at 11:52 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    follow JMATT on snapchat.. guys is killing it every damn day it seems.. fun to watch..

  224. 224 Will:↑↑↓↓←→←→BA said at 11:58 AM on February 15th, 2016:


  225. 225 ACViking said at 12:25 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Spinning on an escalator is good training for WRs.

    Just watch this:

  226. 226 Will:↑↑↓↓←→←→BA said at 12:47 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    More fun when QBs do it

  227. 227 D3FB said at 12:27 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    think of all the core strength that is developing! Deadpool gonna breakout big time next year!

  228. 228 Will:↑↑↓↓←→←→BA said at 12:29 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    He’s already broken out…

  229. 229 Media Mike said at 1:08 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    And I blame Lane’s PED suspension on working with MMA types.

  230. 230 A_T_G said at 1:40 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Wel, the kid just got crossed off my draft board. He dropped the ball before crossing the goal line!

    Practice how you play, kid. Practice how you play.

  231. 231 Beelzebub said at 9:54 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Keep Sanchez, sign Chase Daniels, draft a QB high, and trade for a young QB down on someone’s roster.

  232. 232 Gian GEAGLE said at 4:29 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Why Would you want to keep Sanchez if you are signing Chase?
    If the plan is to sigń Chase and draft a QB, it’s far more likely that we keep THAD Lewis instead of Sanchez…

  233. 233 ACViking said at 11:03 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Re: Pederson – KC’s Running Game

    There seems to be the misconception that after the injury to Chiefs RB Jamaal Charles, the KC offense — under the influence of Doug Pederson — became more of a running offense.


    In Reid’s 3 seasons, the Chiefs have run the ball:

    * 442 (2013) – 15th overall

    * 420 (2014) – 16th overall

    * 436 (2015) – 12th overall

    Nothing’s changed in 3 seasons.

  234. 234 Fufina said at 11:41 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Well the chiefs had the 2nd least offensive plays in the NFL last year, running 955 plays total, which is a 46% run percentage which is pretty good for Andy, and from watching a couple of their games they did seem more committed to establishing the run early.

    The issue will always be that the west coast sees screens, and quick passes as an extension of the run game, so it will be hard to get a run percentage significantly higher than that.

  235. 235 ACViking said at 11:46 AM on February 15th, 2016:

    Agree on Reid.

    The numbers are the numbers (inflated a bit because of Alex Smith’s scrambles — which I’ve added a comment about).

    My point only is that KC’s RBs have run the ball almost the same percentage of plays each of Reid’s 3 seasons.

    Thus, there was no “Doug Pederson Effect” after JCharles’s injury.

  236. 236 ACViking said at 11:55 AM on February 15th, 2016:


    If the Eagles run the ball 46%-plus, that’d be great.

    I don’t expect that to happen.

    But at least they’re playbook won’t fit on Kelly’s 3×5 card.

  237. 237 The original AG said at 12:16 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    I think this is the most important thing. Besides not wanting to throw the ball 65% of the time, I want to see some variety in the offense.

  238. 238 botto said at 1:39 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    2nd least plays?
    does that mean the defense faced a lot of plays?

  239. 239 Media Mike said at 1:40 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Nope. Just means the Chiefs were taking their sweet ass time running plays.

  240. 240 daveH said at 2:06 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    especially in the last 6 minutes of his last game

  241. 241 Media Mike said at 3:42 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    tick, tick tick, tick tick, tick tick

  242. 242 ACViking said at 3:44 PM on February 15th, 2016:


    Dominant comment!

  243. 243 Media Mike said at 3:44 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Thank you. Can you hear Chris Berman?

  244. 244 ACViking said at 3:45 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    I can hear his voice . . . but I don’t want to anymore.

  245. 245 Fufina said at 1:58 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    You know Andy, balls need to be snapped with 3 to -1 seconds left of the play clock… with the closer to 0 the better.

  246. 246 daveH said at 2:08 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    quick internet search shows Eagles with 1102 offensive plays ?
    interesting idea

  247. 247 Dave said at 1:31 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Here is a look at where the current NFL starting QBs were drafted. Of this list, 23 starters were drafted within the first 36 picks. After that, only Wilson, Brady, and Romo panned out. Within that group, Brady and Romo were both drafted to be backups and sat behind Drew Bledsoe.

    I think the moral of the story is pretty clear, either draft a QB early; or draft a QB in the middle of round 2 or later, bring Bledsoe out of retirement and name him as the starter, insert draft pick in game once Bledsoe is ineffective and/or injured.

    Carson Palmer 1
    Cam Newton 1
    Peyton Manning 1
    Matthew Stafford 1
    Alex Smith 1
    Eli Manning 1
    Sam Bradford 1
    Jameis Winston 1
    Andrew Luck 1
    Marcus Mariotta 2
    Matt Ryan 3
    Blake Bortles 3
    Philip Rivers 4
    Ryan Tannehill 8
    Blaine Gabbert* 10
    Jay Cutler 11
    Ben Roethlisberger 11
    Joe Flacco 18
    Aaron Rodgers 24
    Teddy Bridgewater 32
    Drew Brees 32
    Andy Dalton 35
    Derek Carr 36
    Russell Wilson 75
    Kirk Cousins 102
    Tyrod Taylor 180
    Tom Brady 199
    Ryan Fitzpatrick 250
    Tony Romo UDFA
    Texans UDFA
    Browns UDFA
    Rams UDFA

    *49ers – Gabbert (10) or Kaepernick (36)

  248. 248 Ryan Rambo said at 1:37 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Good stuff. Thanks

  249. 249 Fufina said at 1:57 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Damn Howie get Bledsoe on the phone and get him in as our Bridge QB… or at worst assistant QB coach.

  250. 250 ACViking said at 3:11 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Fantastic stuff (including the humor) . . .

    Look at the QBs drafted in slots 1-4.

    At this point, does Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, or Pax Lynch look as talented as any of those guys — like Luck, Stafford, Bradford, Rivers — coming out of college?

    How does that absolute valuation — as opposed to the relative valuation of Goff vs. Wentz vs. Lynch — impact draft-day decisions?

  251. 251 Fufina said at 3:30 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Think Lynch is in that Flacco kind of prospect – large upside raw and development needed.

    Wentz alongside Big Ben/Cutler coming out of college, talented guys but some questions about NFL transition.

    Think the Goff is a pretty good comparison with Matt Ryan, should come in a be a steady force for your organisation short and long term.

    Having said that i like all 3 as prospects over a Gabbert/Locker as prospects so i don’t know what that says about value.

    I would be sweating if i was the Browns at 2 giving up on a Ramsey type prospect for any of the 3 because they are higher risk while he is a slam dunk stud.

    At anything after 5-6 i pull the trigger since i am no longer missing out on spectacular talent like a Tunsil/Ramsey/Jack. and you are costing a very good prospect not a great one.

  252. 252 ACViking said at 3:43 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    F . . .

    Good stuff.

    On the day of the 2011 draft, and since, I think the selections of Locker at #8, Gabbert at #10, and Ponder at #12 were panned. ‘specially Locker and Ponder.

    Right now, pre-Combine and pre-pro days . . . .

    Do you think Goff and Wentz between slots 8-12 is appropriate value? Lynch?

  253. 253 Dave said at 3:55 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    This article written in 2008 seems to sum up this year’s QB crop. Scary how Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, and Brian Brohm (picked by Green Bay in Round 2) could be somewhat changed to say Goff, Wentz, and Lynch.

    “Ryan is tops among ‘below average’ QB draft class”


    I think the general consensus with NFL teams is that if you need a QB and have a high pick, take the QB.

  254. 254 Fufina said at 3:57 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Yeah i think the comp with the 2008 class is a lot more fair than the 2011 draft.

  255. 255 Insomniac said at 4:02 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Well it turns out that Ryan was really the best QB out of that class. I think this team would be able to win it all if we had a QB in the same caliber as Ryan.

  256. 256 Fufina said at 4:05 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    I kinda like Flacco more…. I mean he is more inconsistent but i like a QB who can go out and win you a game with aggressive throws and playmaking… something Matt Ryan rarely does. But that is my personal preference in QB’s. If i was Denver in 2015 i would want Ryan, If i was Panthers i would prefer Flacco.

  257. 257 Insomniac said at 4:09 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    You gotta win in the regular season before you get into the postseason. Flacco has been relying on his defense and run game to win for a long time now. Ryan does air it out but does he just chuck it up an wish for the best like Flacco does? No he doesn’t but I personally would take the smarter guy over the Brett Farve mentality any day.

  258. 258 Dave said at 4:14 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Read the AJC from this NFL season. The Atlanta media banged the drum for much of the season that Ryan is overrated and has inflated stats due to Julio Jones (and to a lesser extent Roddy White and Tony Gonzales).

    Bradford’s numbers this season (even with the crappy 1st half) were similar to Ryans.

  259. 259 Insomniac said at 4:21 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Falcons fans must be nuts then. People down in Atlanta are in for a rude awakening if they think that a WR makes a QB. Ryan has been a top 10 QB that has failed to crack the top 5 because there’s like 4 HoFers occupying the spots for most of his career. If that means that he’s overrated then trade his ass to Philly. I know what overrated looks like and that’s Sam Bradford.

  260. 260 Dave said at 4:44 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    You seems to have forgotten week 1. Julio Jones makes Ryan’s much better than he is. Contrary to popular belief, QBs don’t make players better around them. QBs can’t will a receiver to beat double coverage or outleap DBs and make circus catches.

  261. 261 Insomniac said at 4:56 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Uh no. Ryan was still a top 10 QB in 2013 where Julio missed 11 games.

  262. 262 Dave said at 5:06 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    I never said he wasn’t a top 10 QB. The Atalanta media has made that point throughout the season when they went 1-5 after starting 5-0.

    He has regressed. 4-12, 6-10, 8-8. Pretty crappy record the past 3 seasons for a top QB. 1-4 in the playoffs. He is the definition of overrated.

  263. 263 Insomniac said at 5:13 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    How can you blame Ryan when your defense and OL sucks? The NFC South was one of the toughest divisions in this decade but you blame the QB for regression? If anything he’s being underrated.

  264. 264 Dave said at 5:16 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Same way everyone blames Bradford for wide receiver drops and the Rams sucking during his tenure.

    Again, this is from the Atlanta media. They have been very down on him for a while now.

  265. 265 Insomniac said at 5:21 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Are you serious? Ryan came in and turned the Falcons around through steady improvement. You can’t say the same about draft bust Sam Bradford.

  266. 266 Dave said at 5:37 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    So you can blame Bradford for bad coaching, D, OL and WR ever since he was drafted, but you cannot blame Ryan for a few bad years when the rest of his team sucked? I suppose you think the Rams would have been great too if Ryan was their #1 overall pick instead of Sam. Obviously Sam would have still sucked throwing to Roddy White and Julio Jones, right?

  267. 267 Gian GEAGLE said at 5:40 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Doubt Ryan would have done much better in Sams shoes playing for 4 different coaches in St Louis.. Especially if Ryan had to deal with the injuries SAM dealt with..
    Matt Ryan is a good QB! Nothing special at all

  268. 268 Fufina said at 4:02 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Think if you removed ‘need’ and QB premium, then I think Goff should be 5-10, Wentz 8-12, Lynch 15-20, kinds of ranges.

    Goff should go after the elite talent since i think he will be a solid to good QB be with upside. Wentz a little later just because he is a more risky projection, and Lynch right where the ‘premium’ first round talent starts to run out and you get into that ‘2nd’ tier of prospects.

    But those are my personal evaluations, and with need and QB premium i have no problem with all 3 going potentially top 10.

  269. 269 Insomniac said at 4:39 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    NFL.com had these guys rated

    Winston – 6.7 (top 5 pick)
    Mariota – 6.2
    Bortles – 6.2
    Bridgewater – 6.1
    Carr – 6.1
    Manziel – 6.1

    compared to this years top 3

    Goff – 6.7
    Lynch – 6.4
    Wentz – 6.1

    Just some food for thought.

  270. 270 ACViking said at 4:44 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Jeez, pretty interesting.

    Especially the Mariota vs. Lynch/Goff numbers.

  271. 271 Insomniac said at 4:47 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    I think it might just be relative to the draft class, In the last years draft there were guys rated in the 7+ range. Where as there are no one close to that range in this draft.

    Leonard Williams – 7.5
    Amari Cooper – 7.1
    Kevin White – 6.9
    Dante Fowler Jr – 6.8

  272. 272 ACViking said at 4:51 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    that makes sense

    great provision of info, by the way

  273. 273 Fufina said at 5:00 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    their rankings get set really early, like start of December and then they tend to not review it much, and when they do its pretty random so i think there is Lynch is probably rated a 6.4 after his start of the year and performance against ole miss, before the temple/auburn games.

    And Wentz frankly probably had a cap to his ranking considering injury and being a div2 prospect.

  274. 274 Fufina said at 5:03 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Having said that i am interested to find out who NFL.com use for their scouting, as i imagine they buy in grades from a professional scouting service since there is no way they have their own professional scouts surely? I mean their talking heads only really focus on the top 50, and don’t really start tape properly until January.

  275. 275 Insomniac said at 5:06 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    I think Lance Zuerlein does some of it? I do remember him talking about some players during the draft and using the exact same words in some of the players scouting reports from the NFL site.

  276. 276 Fufina said at 5:13 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Think he writes a fair bit, especially on the better prospects, but i doubt he is watching 1000’s of players and then assigning grades to 400 or so as draftable.

  277. 277 Insomniac said at 5:05 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    I was just using their rating system since there were some numbers that you can compare,

  278. 278 Fufina said at 5:07 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    wasn’t a criticism – think it is an interesting perspective to take, just giving some extra context.

    I do think there is a world where Lynch could be a the best out of any QB in 5 years on that list so maybe a 6.4 is fair… who knows how the NFL will actually evaluate these guys.

  279. 279 Mac said at 4:15 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Unfortunately, the only guarantee that comes with drafting a QB early is that you’ve spent a high draft pick on a QB.

  280. 280 P_P_K said at 4:29 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Gtreat post. Thanks for the research.

  281. 281 Bert's Bells said at 5:01 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    There is a bit of bias here if you consider that QB is valued more highly than the other 21 guys on the field (plus K + P). The likelihood of investing a top 40 pick on a starter is much higher.

    I don’t think that negates the overall point. If anything it reinforces it.

  282. 282 Dave said at 5:13 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    If you are the Browns and have the 2nd pick in the draft and are in desperate need of a QB, do you:

    1. Draft the highest rated QB on your board at #2 regardless of value.
    2. Trade back and hope the QB you like the most is not drafted before you pick again. If he is gone, do you abandon the QB position all together in round 1 and draft BPA or draft the next best QB on the board.
    3. Take BPA at #2 and take a QB with early 2nd round pick knowing top 3 QBs will most likely be off the board.

  283. 283 ICDogg said at 6:07 PM on February 15th, 2016:


    If you think there’s a franchise QB available you take him no matter what.

    If not you take best available at any critical position.

  284. 284 Bert's Bells said at 6:11 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Good question. I think you go with the QB, especially if he’s Jonny Football.

  285. 285 Media Mike said at 6:24 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    You draft BPA and hope he covers up for the fact that your owner named RG3 your starter for life.

  286. 286 GENETiC-FREAK said at 3:22 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Any interest in signing Mo Claiborne?

  287. 287 Fufina said at 3:31 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    For a 1-2 mil to compete in camp? sure to see if you can help him achieve his potential in a new spot… more than that and i walk on by.

  288. 288 TypicalDouche said at 3:35 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    For the veteran minimum is about all I can think to pay for a very oft-injured, inconsistent, and down right awful player like Claiborne is.

  289. 289 Gian GEAGLE said at 4:26 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    He sucks regardless of what team he plays for, but for me, signing Cowboys just don’t seem to work.
    But I wouldmt want Mo if he played for the Broncos top defense..
    And if we are going to pay for a DB, think Safety is a much bigger need, and some decent safety options should hit the open market

  290. 290 GENETiC-FREAK said at 4:30 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Not saying over pay.. Just a cheap prove it type deal.. Dunno how this guy goes from top 5 pick to all of a sudden gone to mud

  291. 291 Gian GEAGLE said at 4:41 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Same way Justin Gilbert sucks balls for a CB drafted so high … Same way Mark Barron turned out to be a terrible safety for how high he was drafted..Dee Milner ismt setting the Leagueon Fire either
    I like the idea of taking a cheap flier on some Talent, I just prefer it not being a cowboy. Id like to stay away from Cowboys as much as possible.. Which is why I don’t even want their free agent Guard Leary…
    I hope we do use that strategy and take a flier or two in Free agency like we did with Nolan, and Thurmond…but I don’t love The thought of Cowboy trash, specifically CLaiborne… It’s not like he has been Burried on a bench like Justin Gilbert, he has been given opportunities by dallas, and he never really took advantage of it

  292. 292 GENETiC-FREAK said at 4:59 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    But Gilbert was always thought to been a reach.. Claiborne was spoken as a better prospect than Peterson.. Is there any Bama DBs that are actually good in the NFL lol

    Ah well was just a thought

  293. 293 The original AG said at 3:56 PM on February 15th, 2016:


  294. 294 Dave said at 3:59 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Cool, looks like we can now afford Bradford at $20M/year and keep Sanchez at $5M/year 😉

  295. 295 Media Mike said at 4:08 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Not to dislocate my own shoulder patting myself on the back, but I was telling people this months ago when they were crying about affording players on a $148 mil cap (or whatever the low projection was) for 2016.

    This league keeps making more and more money every year, the cap cannot be stopped.

    $155+ mil: 2016
    $143 mil: 2015
    $133 mil: 2014
    $123 mil: 2013

    The train isn’t slowing down any time soon folks.

  296. 296 Insomniac said at 4:13 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Inflated contracts are a no no. It’s funny how the league economy works. Instead of stretching the maximum value you can get, GMs are just throwing more money at players because of greedy ass agents.

  297. 297 Media Mike said at 4:14 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    I’m totally in agreement that paying anybody above market is dumb.

    Draft well
    Extend your own guys the minute you trust them long term
    Be strategic with free agency.

  298. 298 Fufina said at 4:14 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Crazy thing is if it is $156mil that adds an extra $250mil to free agency compared to what was thought to be available in 2 months ago. Much of which needs to be spent since there are a lot of teams with floor issues for 2016.

  299. 299 Media Mike said at 4:15 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Which is why I’d keep upping the guaranteed $ to Fletcher Cox until he signs while I have the leverage to get him a deal that uses 2014 and older contracts.

  300. 300 Fufina said at 4:21 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Currently at $155mil (which will probably be more like 156-157), the league today has just under $940mil in cap space in 2016… and the FA crop sucks and most of the big extensions have already been done… things are going to get crazy.

    And 2017 has $2.2bil available at a 166 cap figure that is probably $5 mil to small…

  301. 301 Media Mike said at 4:22 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    True. $166 is too small by far.

  302. 302 Gian GEAGLE said at 4:23 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    This is just the start of it… Cap will Probably go up another 10mil next year.
    With the 12mil increase, we could allocate that to SAM, add whatever the difference will be to sign him, somewhere in the 6mil Range..
    If Roseman thinks his agent is seripusly over rating THE MARKET FOR SAM, a transition tag could be the way to go. Let other teams set the market for SAM, and We can,decide if we want to match the other teams offers or not..

  303. 303 Fufina said at 4:28 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Think they have another big deal kicking in to add another ~$15mil in 2017… so add in continued growth of other parts of business could see at $175mil 2017 cap with close to $1.5bil of cap space available for free agency!

  304. 304 Nick C said at 4:35 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    I’ve been on the non exclusive tag the whole offseason, but if we do not at least transition tag Sam and give ourselves an opportunity to match a formal offer instead of letting agents throw around BS, it will be really disappointing.

  305. 305 Gian GEAGLE said at 5:45 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    It depends… If you think his agent is right and teams will be linning up to throw more money at SAM than we want to pay, the transition Tag isn’t a good idea… But if we think. Allowing other teams to set the market for SAM ends up fitting more with what we are offering him. Than what his agent is asking for, than the Transition Tag can be helpful to us..
    If teams are really going to engage in a bidding War over SAM and his price goes up to 25$ mil, then The transition Tag is a horrible decision, and the Franchise Tag becomes more useful to us…
    Depends on what the agent is asking for, compared to what SAM really will command on the open market.. if the agent is right, transition Tag becomes a bad idea. if Roseman is right and the agent is talking out his ass, transition tag, calling the agents bluff could be a good strategy

  306. 306 The original AG said at 4:44 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    I know, it’s ridiculous the money these guys make. That’s why the move back to LA and these owners crying poor gets under my skin a bit. These guys aren’t struggling in any way.

  307. 307 Media Mike said at 5:35 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Yeah. The owners crying poor mouth is laughable.

  308. 308 James said at 4:30 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Alshon Jeffrey!

  309. 309 Media Mike said at 5:34 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    Is getting franchised.

  310. 310 Gian GEAGLE said at 5:35 PM on February 15th, 2016:

    And eventually Getting Dez Bryant Money