Couple of New Guys

Posted: April 1st, 2016 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 227 Comments »

Rueben Randle met the Philly media on Friday.

And the Eagles made a move.

Let’s start with Randle. His PC was boring. Reporters quit asking questions because Randle wasn’t exactly a quote machine. I thought the highlight was when he talked about Bennie Logan helping to convince him to sign with the Eagles. They played together at LSU so Randle trusts his old college buddy.

Randle then had a one-one-one with Dave Spadaro. That’s worth watching. One of Dave’s strengths is that he gets player to relax and open up. Randle wasn’t exactly compelling, but he was more interesting.

It is fair to compare the Steve Smith signing of 2011 with the Randle addition. Smith was bitter about not getting the offer he wanted and he came to Philly with a terrible attitude. He also wasn’t healthy. There weren’t many passes to go around, with DeSean, Maclin and Avant being the top 3 pass catchers. That signing was a disaster.

Randle is healthy. He is joining a team with one proven WR, Jordan Matthews, and several other young players. Randle has a lot to prove and he will have a chance to do it. The signing may not pan out, but this one does make more sense and feels like it has a better to succeed.

Don’t read too much into the team adding a FB. The Eagles will have practices before the draft and need depth to run through plays. Trey Burton will get a chance to do that, but he needs someone else to help with the reps. Mueller, a former LB, will get a chance to show what he can do.

Pederson would like to keep a FB, but that isn’t set in stone. He is looking for the best 53 players more than anything.

*****

MISC Q&A

Any interest in Jaylon Smith? Funny that someone asked this. I just happened to be thinking about it. Smith would be a Top 10 player if healthy, but suffered a serious knee injury in Ohio State’s bowl game. Will he go late 1st? 2nd? 3rd?

Doctors will dictate where Smith is taken. There are concerns that he could have nerve damage, as well as a torn ACL. He could be the next Willis McGahee or the next Marcus Lattimore. McGahee carved out a solid career after a horrific injury in a bowl game. Lattimore never played in the NFL.

If Smith falls to the 3rd and the doctors trust his knee, I would take him. But the doctors have to make sure the knee is sound. The Eagles took a flier on TE Cornelius Ingram. He looked great in camps, but re-tore his ACL and was never the same again.

How is Patrick Chung playing so well in NE? Belichick is now using Chung creatively. He plays him in 1-on-1 situations a lot. That seems to bring out the best in Chung. The Eagles had Chung as an interchangeable Safety. Some players need specific roles to succeed.

*****

I did a short interview with Matt Lombardo on Thursday night.

I went on at 9pm, which I think was one hour into his show.

_


227 Comments on “Couple of New Guys”

  1. 1 Charlie Kelly said at 11:09 PM on April 1st, 2016:

    “It is fair to compare the Steve Smith signing of 2011 with the Randle addition”

    no its not. Not at all.lol steve was coming of a huge injury, randle coming off one his better seasons, at least in terms of TDs and hasnt missed a game in his career.

  2. 2 TypicalDouche said at 11:29 PM on April 1st, 2016:

    What a nitpicking response. He clearly meant it as both signings are were high risk /high reward signings when they both happened.

  3. 3 Charlie Kelly said at 3:29 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    steve was coming off an injury that we all knew he wouldnt ever be the same from

  4. 4 mark2741 said at 9:24 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Didn’t realize you had access to his medical records.

  5. 5 Gian GEAGLE said at 6:11 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I don’t really see what’s risky about Rueban Randle… It’s risky if we are signing him expecting him to be our #1 WR who will carry our passing attack. I think it’s safe to expect him to contribute which we couldn’t have said about Steve Smith or Austin… Hopefully The 3rd WR we sigń from our Rials will be the charm
    ..
    But I see him as signifcantly safer of a signing than Steve Smth of Miles Austin were. I think he can be counted on To be a solid contributor with a chance to finish as one of our top 3 WRs. But even if he doesn’t start, think he can be counted on to contribute.. I think he is even less risky than Chris Givens
    ..
    Steve smith was trying to salvage his career. I don’t think Rueban Randle would have had a hard time finding a job if we didn’t sigń him. It was probably more of a case of not being offered enough to sign a Longterm deal. I would think plenty of teams would have been happy to add him on a one year deal.

  6. 6 FairOaks said at 11:48 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    He could end up with a lackadaisical attitude which could affect other young players. It seems as though he would commonly cut routes short, not fight for balls, get disinterested in games where he wasn’t getting the ball, etc. — basically getting by on physical talent. He was benched for off-field reasons too, so there is something the team didn’t like there. Giants let him go for a reason… maybe he changes his tune and we get a steal, or maybe he hasn’t changed and we will find out why, to our detriment. He is certainly cuttable though, if the problems manifest themselves before the season.

    But if he does change his approach… he could easily be the #2 or even #1 receiver on the team. Certainly hoping that a change of scenery helps.

  7. 7 Dude said at 11:29 PM on April 1st, 2016:

    Randle doesn’t get much love around here, but i think he’s, at a minimum, the 3rd best WR on the roster right now, and possibly the best. Agholor and Huff haven’t shown us anything (yet) and J. Matt will likely be moving into a new role. Matthews has been good, but not so good that you can say, “Nobody on this roster could be better.” It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

  8. 8 TypicalDouche said at 11:32 PM on April 1st, 2016:

    His career year isn’t better then Matthew’s career year so I don’t know how you can say he may be the best WR on the team right now.

  9. 9 Dude said at 11:46 PM on April 1st, 2016:

    Mainly because I don’t think either player has peaked yet, and like I said above, Matthews hasn’t been so good that you can definitively say that he will be the best WR on our roster this year. Probably, yes, but not for sure.

  10. 10 Media Mike said at 4:04 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    And he shouldn’t. There are about 17 different fantasy writers that would like to kill him. He’s been trying to “break out” longer than a prisoner on 4 consecutive life sentences.

  11. 11 Dude said at 4:10 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    The exact same thing could be said about Zach Ertz…

  12. 12 P_P_K said at 9:05 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    “He’s been trying to “break out” longer than a prisoner on 4 consecutive life sentences.”
    Great line. I’m stealing it.

  13. 13 daveH said at 9:31 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    His career is on Clearasil

  14. 14 Media Mike said at 5:27 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Thank you

  15. 15 bsuperfi said at 11:12 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    He’s at least going to push agholor and huff, and they need it. I’d also be surprised if randle wasn’t at least the 3, but if he’s not, it’s probably a sign that the kids are playing decently well.

  16. 16 A_T_G said at 11:56 PM on April 1st, 2016:

    So, to paraphrase, “No, it is not fair to compare the two signings. Not at all. Now, allow me to compare the two signings to explain why.”

    Something like that?

  17. 17 Charlie Kelly said at 3:31 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    i said its not a fair comparison, not that you cant compare them. but doing so would not be fair for the reasons stated.

    get it?

  18. 18 Donald Kalinowski said at 10:34 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Remember when Steve Smith dropped a TD pass vs the Giants and the ball ended up being intercepted?

    Remember when he would stop 1 yard short of a 1st down instead of trying to fight for that extra yard?

    Fuck that guy. He was a worse signing than Nnamdi.

  19. 19 Charlie Kelly said at 6:49 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    and we all hated the signing upon hearing about it. i wasnt a fan of his even when he was healthy lol

  20. 20 Couple of New Guys - said at 11:09 PM on April 1st, 2016:

    […] Tommy Lawlor Rueben Randle met the Philly media on Friday. And the Eagles made a move. #Eagles sign FB Ryan […]

  21. 21 rls255 said at 11:13 PM on April 1st, 2016:

    Heard you live last night, was a very pleasant surprise. Gave me a great excuse to stop painting for a few minutes. Excellent takes, made me miss H2H. Love to hear you more often.

  22. 22 Mitchell said at 11:26 PM on April 1st, 2016:

    Need to hear your sweet, baby making voice more often Tommy.

  23. 23 Insomniac said at 11:41 PM on April 1st, 2016:

    If Smith can make a full recovery then hell yes you take him in the 3rd if he’s there. You can sit him for a year to see if Kendricks can finally put it together. If not then slide him into the SAM slot. Smith will make a great WILL LB with his speed and coverage skills.

  24. 24 Mitchell said at 11:51 PM on April 1st, 2016:

    Jack in the first and Smith in the third.

  25. 25 Insomniac said at 12:00 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Two LBs coming off injuries? Are you trying to work the sports science crew to death?

  26. 26 Mitchell said at 12:33 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    They have to earn their money too, you know.

  27. 27 Insomniac said at 12:47 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Think about the smoothie machine!!

  28. 28 BlindChow said at 1:57 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Three, if you include Hicks.

  29. 29 Media Mike said at 4:02 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I think you also need to say; “Hell yeah, Smith had better make a full recovery if we draft him or people need to be fired.”

  30. 30 Donald Kalinowski said at 10:35 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I think if he gets passed up 32 times in the 2nd round, he’s probably not worth taking at all until the end of the draft.

  31. 31 Cafone said at 12:43 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Good tip on the Spadaro/Randle video. It was definitely worth watching. I’m not usually a fan of Spadaro so I skip most of his videos.

  32. 32 Cafone said at 1:05 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Why not Sheldon Rankins at #8?

    I have a feeling that if our pick doesn’t work out we will look back and say, “man, we passed on Sheldon Rankins.”

  33. 33 Media Mike said at 4:44 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    We’ll have Fletcher Cox on this team for a while, so I’m not too worried about Rankins. He might wind up being an amazing pro, but none of these DTs this year will be as good at Fletcher Cox.

    The only way we’ll regret missing on any guy is if we draft a bust and/or take a RB at 8.

  34. 34 Jack Waggoner said at 5:50 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    If you think the guy is an Aaron Donald, do you pass? I am not sure if he’s going to be that good, but if I thought so I wouldn’t let position stop me.

  35. 35 Media Mike said at 3:31 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I don’t think he’s Aaron Donald.

  36. 36 Jack Waggoner said at 5:26 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I think there’s a chance, I see a lot of potential, but a lot of risk too. Does he have the dedication?

  37. 37 Gian GEAGLE said at 6:01 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I wouldn’t pass on Aaron Donald talent under any circumstance,…what’s the worst case a scenario? Rich man problems like the Jets with Leonard, Wilkerson and Sheldon?… A problem Id welcome.

    DT will be one of our most rotated starting positions, and when our Bench is Raciti, Taylor Hart, and Beau Allen, Cox and Bennie Logan should have NO BEARING on the DT we draft.. If a DT happens to be the BPA, that would be great for us…. Adding Aaron Donald who we can control for 5 years on a rookie Contract would be Awesome, ESPECIALLY at a position where there will be plenty of snaps to keep 3 Stud DTs happy…
    ..
    I don’t know if Rankins is going to be the BPA, but I do see him as one of The guys who could end up in the top 10 even if the media doesnt see it that way…a DT being the BPA at #8 would be great for us, but I don’t know how likely it is… DT is one of The few positions where we could keep a starting caliber player happy as our #3(top reserve)…
    ..
    No idea how realistic our chance of seeing a DT as the BPA available at #8 is, but personally im hoping for Jack or Buckner

  38. 38 P_P_K said at 9:03 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Everytime I think about Fletcher being on the Eagles for a long time I get a fuzzy, tingling feeling.

  39. 39 tommy_the_k said at 2:38 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Fletcher will be traded with our #1 so we can move up to first overall pick. That is why he has not been signed to a deal YET. $100,000,000 defensive tackles do not win you a SB.

  40. 40 Jack Waggoner said at 5:45 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Good outside the box choice

  41. 41 Greg Richards said at 7:52 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Was a strong candidate at 13. Think 8 is too high for him.

  42. 42 Jack Waggoner said at 8:19 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    He’s all about burst. He’s got a great first step and if he wins the first battle he is a dominant player.

  43. 43 D3FB said at 4:30 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Because it would mean you’re going to pay Cox 15+ a season to be the 1 tech.

  44. 44 Media Mike said at 4:34 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    http://s3.amazonaws.com/quietus_production/images/articles/8972/sweat_1338920562.jpg

  45. 45 D3FB said at 4:36 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Oh I think Cox would very much be annoyed. And you’d be devaluing him on the field.

  46. 46 Media Mike said at 4:37 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I’d tend to agree, but mention of the whole concept of “technique” required a reply.

  47. 47 D3FB said at 4:39 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wi_qsHhrs-U/maxresdefault.jpg

  48. 48 Insomniac said at 1:50 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    So how does this years WR class stack up to the past classes? It’s not all that bad but still not what you’d hope for if you want a first round WR.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000649833/article/jeremiah-corey-coleman-ranks-fifth-among-wrs-since-2013

    Keep in mind that this is draft grades coming out of college. I’m a bit surprised that Coleman is rated higher than Cooks.

  49. 49 Media Mike said at 3:31 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I’m having trouble drafting WR early than 7th round in any simulator unless Boyd falls into the 3rd. I sat through really good 11 and 12 win teams with Torrance Small / Charles Johnson and Stinkston / Trash as the WR combo; I can deal with Ags and Matthews for a few more years to see how it develops.

  50. 50 Insomniac said at 4:09 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Kenny Lawler, Malcolm Mitchell, Sterling Shepard, and Jay Lee.

  51. 51 Media Mike said at 4:26 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Only Lawler excites me, but not more so than Westerman, Haeg, McGovern, etc.

  52. 52 Gian GEAGLE said at 5:50 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Think Nelson Agholar would be in the mix for #1 WR drafted this year

  53. 53 Media Mike said at 5:02 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    How about a couple of more new guys

    Your score is: 7822 (GRADE: B-)

    Round 1 Pick 8: Jared Goff, QB, California (A+)
    Round 3 Pick 14: Kenny Clark, DT, UCLA (A+)
    Round 3 Pick 16: Joe Haeg, OT, North Dakota State (C+)
    Round 4 Pick 2: Connor McGovern, OG, Missouri (B+)
    Round 5 Pick 14: Travis Feeney, OLB, Washington (A+)
    Round 5 Pick 25: Jatavis Brown, OLB/SS, Akron (A-)
    Round 6 Pick 13: Keith Marshall, RB, Georgia (A-)
    Round 7 Pick 12: Stephen Weatherly, DE, Vanderbilt (B)
    Round 7 Pick 30: Bennett Okotcha, CB, Texas-San Antonio (B-)

    Not the highest score, but I really like Goff. Couldn’t pass over Clark in rd 3. Haeg hasn’t been lasting to 4-2, so I took him in round 3. McGovern, along with Haeg, hopefully are both starting in 2017. Feeney is a guy whose height I love at SAM for the future as we train him. Brown would depth at safety who could work into a more prominent role in a few years if we started to run “big nickel” with a 3rd safety on the field to combat 2 TE passing sets. Marshall is a shot at getting another RB not named Barner on the 53. Weatherly is maybe the 5th DE, and Okotcha is simply somebody to hopefully stash on the p squad.

  54. 54 Jack Waggoner said at 7:58 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Ryan Mueller seems like one of those guys – like a lot of coaches keep around to fill in and do a bunch of stuff, like Reno Mahe or Chad Hall or to go way back, Louis Giammona. Coaches often like to have one of these all-purpose guys around. I imagine it makes their job a little easier.

  55. 55 Bert's Bells said at 12:03 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    And you hint at the real reason Kelly was fired —–cutting GJ Kinne.

  56. 56 nopain23 said at 8:22 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    why some much hate for zeke at 8?
    if the top 2qb’s are gone,as well as tunsil,bosa,jack, and ramsey and we dont get an enticing deal to move down and get say a 2nd rd pick for example..then you go bpa at 8 and no way zeke isnt the bpa left. plus we fill a need. i think all this dont take a rb so high is paralysis by analysis. dont overthink it just take bpa. my favorite player in the draft is treadwell…think he’s going to be phenomenal..but he’s not a top ten talent.

  57. 57 Jack Waggoner said at 9:01 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    It’s strictly because he’s a running back. In the past we’ve been fortunate to get top running backs in the 3rd and 2nd rounds, while a lot of “can’t miss” first round running backs have been worse than anticipated. How many of them have not been busts? So, it’s easy to see why many people discount the position, prefer to alternate fresh bodies, guys that don’t cost 1st round picks.

    That said, it is tough not to take a guy that good when your offense definitely could use a playmaker and he is 2nd or 3rd best talent on many big boards.

  58. 58 nopain23 said at 10:15 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    If zeke is going to be a top 5 RB in the league for the next 5 yrs or so with a rookie salary…and make our running game a threat every Sunday so our WRs and TEs get one on one coverage. ..I say its definitely worthe it taking him at 8.DP is going to push for a good run game..we signed a fullback for goodness sake. And I think no way zeke gets passed the Giants at 10…if we stayed at 13…and all my gmen friends agree.ODB and zeke would torment the NFC east for the next half decade at least

  59. 59 Media Mike said at 3:28 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    “If Zeke is going to be a top 5 RB in the league for the next 5 yrs or so with a rookie salary…”

    And I don’t see him as anything even close to that good, so I don’t want him at 8. If he was legitimately that level of prospect, I’d be ok with the pick of him at 8.

  60. 60 Duracell said at 3:48 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    This I think pretty much sums up the anti-Zeke camp.

  61. 61 Media Mike said at 4:24 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Yeah. Don’t hate the dude. Just would like him in the mid-teens.

  62. 62 D3FB said at 4:27 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Well you’re expecting him to do something no one has done in the last 5 years. Sooooooo…..

    Not one back has been top 5 in yards the last 5 years.

    AP and Shady both were top 5 only 3 times.

    Morris, Martin, and Beastmode were top 5 twice in the last 5 years.

    So again, sure he’ll be worth it if he’s a top 5 rusher for 5 consecutive years on a rookie deal. You’re just asking for something to be done that has no recent precedent.

  63. 63 Duracell said at 9:07 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I personally think people are way too down on Hargreaves, and that he would be the clear BPA in that scenario. Additionally, I think there would have been a good chance that Zeke would have been available for the Eagles at 13. Part of the excitement over moving up to 8 is that we could get the type of talent that wasn’t going to be there at 13. If the take Zeke, why the hell didn’t they try to get a 3rd from Miami instead of moving up?

  64. 64 Jack Waggoner said at 9:18 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Hargreaves is solid. Doesn’t excite me as a selection, wouldn’t be upset if they took him though. Just. … eh.

  65. 65 Duracell said at 9:23 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    To add to my own thoughts…

    I think there are many other reasons as well. Like Jack Waggoner said, there’s serious doubt to the value of a first round RB over a third round RB, compared to the gap for other positions like QB, OT, CB. Another is that I think a first round RB is a luxury pick, and we have too many long term holes at too many important positions to afford a luxury pick.

    All that being said, while I’m certainly no fan of Zeke at 8, I do think he will be an above average NFL back. They could do a lot worse than that.

  66. 66 nopain23 said at 10:18 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I think if you take BPA and it doesn’t work out…then that’s life…but to reach for a guy and have him flame out..is inexcusable. ..but then again…I wanted Justin Gilbert a few drafts ago…and boy was I wrong about that dude…..

  67. 67 Duracell said at 3:45 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I never said anything about reaching for a player. I don’t think it’s possible Zeke is BPA at 8.

    I also think, and Tommy has talked about this in the past, that the board is somewhat stacked based on positional value. There’s a reason almost all the top OL taken in the draft every year are tackles, not interior lineman. In a much more extreme example, there is a reason even the top kickers and punters are late round picks.

  68. 68 nopain23 said at 4:53 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    all my colleagues who watch a ton more college ball than i do say hargreaves and stanley are not top talents.good but not great.if we’re at 8 i want us to draft a top 10 guy. we need to improve the o line and secondary , i agree but at 8 i think bpa over need. if howewer stanley and hargreaves are top 10 talents then by all means pick one .anyone i dont care. but gain all the draft analyst and friends of mine who watch ncca ball religiously say zeke is top 10. i’m not a zeke guy but i get a feeling he’ll be a top 10 talent available at 8. stanley is way close the level of tunsil from what i’m hearing and hargreaves get’s beat deep a lot by speed guys. mu buddies say desean would roast him!

  69. 69 Donald Kalinowski said at 10:38 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I don’t buy that arm length crap. He’s a CB not a DL or OL.

  70. 70 Bert's Bells said at 12:01 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I suppose it makes a difference on jamming at LOS. Considering that defenders will soon be getting flagged for being within five yards of a receiver maybe we only draft guys with reallllllly long arms.

  71. 71 Jernst said at 10:30 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    long arms are also a huge benefit in defending passes and getting your hands on the ball while in coverage.

  72. 72 Jernst said at 10:29 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    What do you think about this study in regards to 40 times and expected CB production in the NFL: http://thedctimes.com/2012/03/using-40-yard-dash-to-predict-cornerback-performance-in-nfl/
    Does his lack of elite physical skill and/or size concern you at all?
    What about his knack for guessing and jumping routes to make big plays and giving up big gains? Or the fact that PFF ranked him as the 73rd best CB in coverage last year?
    I don’t hate VH3, but I have to admit I’m not sold on him being the best bet at #8 overall either.

  73. 73 Dave said at 10:43 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Right now we have a turnstile co-op playing left guard and whether or not Klece returns to his old form is debatable. A bad OL can lose a game for a team, or get the QB hurt which could be the end of the season for a team.

    Same thing with CB. All it takes is one Bradley Fletcher-type CB on the outside for a team to pick on and the game may be lost. A defensive coordinator needs to then provide safety help all the time which weakens the defense.

    QB at #8 is a no-brainer if the teams thinks one of them is a legitimate franchise player.

    RB is rarely a position that changes the outcome of a game if the RB is ineffective (see Murray, DeMarco). Sure, great play by a RB can help you win a game, but poor play (outside of fumbling) doesn’t hinder a win as much as some other positions.

    RB is not a weakness on this team, while other positions definitely are at this time. Outside of injury concerns, Zeke is no better than Mathews.

  74. 74 bsuperfi said at 11:07 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I dunno. It depends on the rb/coach combo. A Swiss Army knife like Westbrook was game changing because Reid used him for match ups really well. Zeke and Westbrook are different players, but versatility is king in the modern nfl. The rb also affects games in ways we don’t see immediately by altering the way the d plays us. Our wrs need more open looks probably even more than Bradford does, and a threat at rb can seriously help.

    I’m in the bpa camp if the qbs are gone, and I’d definitely keep zeke in the mix.

  75. 75 TypicalDouche said at 12:21 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    If you’re going to mention what big red did with a weapon like Westbrook then don’t forget to mention the guys that were blocking for him like Tra Thomas, Jon Runyan, Shawn Andrews and others. Football always starts in the trenches and you must build them , then find a QB. Zeke would be a luxury pick.

  76. 76 Dave said at 12:27 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    “Zeke would be a luxury pick.”

    Exactly. Ryan Mathews was the #12 overall pick for a reason. He is a stud. Injuries are what is hurting his career, not talent.

  77. 77 laeagle said at 1:24 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    It doesn’t matter what the reason is that he’s not putting up numbers, if he’s not putting them up. Injured, untalented, misused, whatever, if he’s not producing, he’s not producing. Especially in the case of injury, that means you need someone else.

  78. 78 Dave said at 1:53 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    By that same logic, Peters is not producing due to injury too; therefore we should take a tackle to replace Lane (who would then move to the left side). Replacing a 34 year old tackle due $10M per year is much more logical than replacing a 28 year old running back due $4M per year.

  79. 79 laeagle said at 2:06 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    There actually is logic to that, which is why people have talked about moving on from Peters.

    Also, comparing the success and injury history of Peters and Mathews is flat out silly. Yes, Peters has missed a lot of time, but he’s also put together a lot of complete, All-Pro caliber seasons. Has Mathews even once made the Pro Bowl? Hell, has he ever played a complete season?

    I can understand the logic of devaluing a RB, purely on the position alone. But not drafting one simply because you think you’ve got that position covered with a back as injury-prone as Mathews (despite his talent) is idiotic.

  80. 80 Dave said at 2:40 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Peters is 34, he missed 28 games to injury. I’m all for drafting his (Lane’s) replacement.

    Recent Hall of Fame tackles:

    Walter Jones retired at 34, missed 8 games to injury
    Orlando Pace retired at 34, missed 36 games to injury
    Jonathon Ogden retired at 33, missed 15 games to injury
    Willie Roaf retired at 35, missed 13 games to injury
    Will Shields retired at 35, never missed a game in his career

    Peters is done. The guy is a warrior on the field, but counting on him this year is fool’s gold.

    But not drafting OL simply because you think you’ve got that position covered with a lineman as old and injury-prone as Peters (despite his talent) is idiotic.

  81. 81 laeagle said at 2:54 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Sure, fine, but you don’t draft that heavily for need; you draft for the player. That’s the argument for Zeke: he’s an elite player. Stanley, IMHO, and in the opinion of a lot of others, is not. And you then have other options to replace that position over the next year; remember that Andy’s line that you cited was not built exclusively through the draft, and certainly not exclusively through 1st rounders.

    The question is if the player is worth it, and an elite player is. A decent player at a position of need is fine if you’re picking at 20+, but at 8, it’s a waste of resources.

  82. 82 Dave said at 3:25 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I am not sold on Zeke. You say he is elite. I wrote this back in early March when Tommy wrote about RBs.

    Zeke worries me the same way Alabama running backs worry me. When all your offense teammates are 4 and 5 star recruits, you can look better than you really are. Sort of like DeMarco running behind the Dallas line vs the Philly line.

    Remember Trent Richardson? 5 Star Alabama Recruit. Top running back in the 2012 draft. 3rd overall pick by Cleveland. Not saying Zeke is the same, but it has to be taken into consideration. Here is what Tommy wrote about Trent…

    Posted on March 12, 2012 by Tommy Lawlor
    RB TRENT RICHARDSON – ALABAMA – 5-11, 224

    “Junior. Special RB. Great combination of strength, power, speed, footwork, and skill. Thick, powerful build. Can run over defenders, make them miss, or just run by them. Split reps with Mark Ingram for first 2 years so he posted good, but not great numbers. Trent was the feature back in 2011 and finished 5th in the nation in rushing. For his career he had 3,130 yards and 35 TDs. 68-730-7 as a receiver. Also very good as a KOR (mostly 2010). Averaged 26 yards per KOR and had a TD. Solid receiver.

    Not just strong and fast. Skilled runner. Runs under control. More slippery than you’d think. Good footwork, body control. Has good vision. Can find running lanes and is athletic enough to get to them. Hard to describe his running style. Can line up in the I-formation and follow his FB as a downhill runner or read his blocks and be a one-cut runner. Fast enough to get to the edge.

    Great balance. Has good feet. Moves well laterally. In the first LSU game, there was one play that showed how nifty he can be. Caught a pass 10 yards downfield. Made a guy miss and then got down the sideline for a good gain. Power backs aren’t supposed to have that kind of footwork and body control.

    Mostly runs N-S so he can stay behind his pads and take on tacklers. Doesn’t go down on first contact. Rarely goes down with just one defender. Low center of gravity and incredible strength makes him a bull to tackle. Finishes runs.

    One of the Top 10 players in the draft, at the least. Might not get drafted that high simply because RB is devalued in the league right now. 1st round RBs can be overrated at times, but Trent looks like one of those special players who genuinely deserves to be taken early. Best RB to come out since Adrian Peterson back in 2007. Didn’t work out at Combine due to medical procedure. Could affect his value a bit, but there was no significant injury so it won’t be a major factor.”

  83. 83 laeagle said at 3:26 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Then we’ll agree to disagree on evaluation of the talent in this draft, and leave it at that.

  84. 84 Jernst said at 10:25 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Added benefit of spending resources on Olineman as opposed to running backs who’s main skill is rushing…A good line will improve BOTH the passing and running game, while a good rusher only really has a significant direct effect on the running game, and can/will be shut down completely if the line isn’t good enough anyways.

  85. 85 Jernst said at 10:23 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    A running game can be situationally effective without a true stud RB. Kind of how the Patriots use their guys. They always have at least one bruiser that can pick up short yardage and one third down back who can catch passes.
    But, you’re absolutely right. The one area that RBs can have a profound effect on games is if they have exceptional skills and versatility in the passing game. If the RB becomes a passing game weapon he’s exceptionally valuable. The thing is, you don’t necessarily need that guy to also be your every down back. You can gain most of the same production in the passing game with a guy like Dion Lewis. But, there really is an added bonus if the guy is a threat between the tackles too as the defense is then not keyed into whether or not it’s a pass or run based on personel.

  86. 86 Insomniac said at 12:36 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Rebuilding the OL or secondary wasn’t going to be a one year process in the first place. Take BPA at 8 and if that’s Zeke then so be it. It would be dumb as hell to bank on getting more than half a season out of Mathews. Not to mention he’s pretty much a stopgap at this point of his career.

  87. 87 Jernst said at 9:58 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Totally agree. Not only that, but you can essentially replicate the production of a stud RB with a committee of second tier guys. You don’t have that luxury at other positions. You can’t do a offensive guard by committee approach and get the same production you would from a stud lineman. Same with pretty much every other position.

    Plus running games effect on winning and losing is very situational. You need to be able to convert short yardage (which can easily be achieved by a situational player), you need to consistently gain about 4 yards on early downs (again can be obtained without huge resources spent on a stud RB).

    If there’s a built in luxury to a position where you can reliably obtain similar output and production with a fraction of the cost, you’d be stupid not to take advantage.

  88. 88 Donald Kalinowski said at 10:55 AM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Would you take 10 years of Todd Herremans, Sam Shields, or Reggie Wayne in their primes over 10 years of Adrian Peterson? I think I would.

  89. 89 laeagle said at 12:18 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    If you would take 10 years of Todd Herremans over 10 years of Adrian Peterson, I don’t know what to tell you.

  90. 90 Bert's Bells said at 2:32 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    The question is so crazy I thought I was crazy for thinking it was so crazy.

  91. 91 Mac said at 7:01 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    You’re belaboring the point.

  92. 92 Insomniac said at 12:25 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Who’s the Reggie Wayne in this years draft? That’s definitely not Treadwell. Sam Shields over Peterson? Really? One is going to be in the HoF. The other is an overrated CB.

  93. 93 nopain23 said at 12:42 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Wayne played with arguably the greatest qb of all time.APRIL has put up good numberstuff with terrible qbs…I’m taking AP…love herremans…but he’s not top 10 pick guy….again im.not a big zeke fan….I just don’t want the iggles over thinking this. …..just take BPA at 8….and move on

  94. 94 Jernst said at 9:35 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Yea…I’m not sure what the OP is getting at. 10 years of Todd Herremans or 10 years of Adrian Peterson? Is that even a question? Please sign me up for the hall of fame RB over the semi-decent guard.

  95. 95 Dave said at 2:18 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I’m confused with your post.

    Herremans was a 4th round draft pick
    Sam Shields was an undrafted free agent
    Reggie Wayne was selected #30 overall
    AP was drafted #7 overall

    Are you inferring if we traded from #8 to #30 we would only get a 4th round pick?

  96. 96 A_T_G said at 4:24 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I don’t think so, he said or, not and. I read it as a good lineman, CB, or WR instead of a good RB, using those guys as proxy for or other options at 8.

  97. 97 Media Mike said at 3:25 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Good question. I’d hate the pick at 8 because

    – He’s not Tomlinson, Peterson, or every Gurley good.

    – RBs from all spots in the draft make pro bowls every year, you can get a good one for a more proportional cost later in the draft.

    – RBs don’t have long enough careers to justify the opportunity cost of taking one at eight unless they’re special; he ain’t special.

    I’d be way happier with Ronnie Stanley or Buckner at 8 than Zeke. You could even talk me into Shaq Lawson if he shoulder is ok. (Credit to D3 on that line of thinking). Add in the fact that Greg Cossell said that Jonathan Williams from Arkansas is just as good of a prospect as Zeke and you’re not getting me excited to take Zeke at 8.

  98. 98 Rambo said at 3:54 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Just wait til Barner is your starter!

  99. 99 Media Mike said at 4:24 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    NOT COOL

  100. 100 Rambo said at 4:27 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Lol! Not at ALL. I’m hoping we can get a good non-rb @ #8 and use one of our 3rds on a good RB to mix in with Matthews.

  101. 101 Insomniac said at 4:03 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Zeke is on the same level as Gurley. I’d even say that Zeke is better than all of the RBs next year too. Williams is just as good as Zeke? Cossell must have been on some good stuff.

  102. 102 Media Mike said at 4:25 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I can’t agree with Zeke on the level of Gurley. At least pre-injury Gurley.

  103. 103 Insomniac said at 4:37 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    IMO, Zeke and Gurley just trade blows in certain areas. Zeke is the better blocker. Gurley is the more creative runner. To me, I don’t care how RBs get their results. I just care that they do it. It depends on what flavor you like your RBs. Personally, I’d take Tomlinson over Peterson since I like 3 down Rbs more than pure runners.

  104. 104 Media Mike said at 4:40 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I think I could coach up any guy willing to learn on how to block better. Not sure if I can up a guy’s running skills. So that’s why I’d take Gurley.

    And I’d agree on Tomlinson over Peterson.

  105. 105 Insomniac said at 4:44 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    You can’t teach will or creativity.

  106. 106 Mac said at 6:44 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    You just need the right premise… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfIXQ4rPbco

  107. 107 Rambo said at 7:23 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Flavor? Chocolate! No homo!

  108. 108 D3FB said at 4:39 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Not Fournette, and not Cook (although he’s human garbage).

    I’d rather spend a 2 and a 4 next year on Royce Freeman and James Connor than pick 8 on Zeke.

    Running backs get hurt. Running backs have short shelf lives.

  109. 109 Insomniac said at 4:41 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    How dare you try to spend 2 picks on RBs. Blasphemy!!

  110. 110 D3FB said at 4:42 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Non premium picks in a deeper pool. GASPPPPP

  111. 111 Insomniac said at 4:51 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Hey..I think a 2nd is a premium pick. I’ll give you the 4th though.

  112. 112 D3FB said at 4:58 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Compared to a top 10?

  113. 113 Insomniac said at 5:02 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    When you put it that way then yea a 2nd isn’t as premium.

  114. 114 Gian GEAGLE said at 5:42 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I hope this discussion is about how we rate him as a prospect, instead of about devaluing certain positions, I lived thru an era where we had the best QB in Eagle history, at the same time when we had an elite Defense, a hall of fame RB that was one of the best weapons in the game during that era(Westbrook) and donf have a single Super Bowl win to show for it, Even when we added the best WR in The game, it wasn’t enough to achieve our goal… So it makes my skin crawl when I hear people devalue positions..I haven’t forgotten the price we paid for Andy Reid going into a season devaluing a friggin punt returner. That was a costly lesson, and a punt Returner barely brings a fraction of value to a team that a stud back can bring… So For me, it has to be about Zekes grade, and it can’t be about his position.
    ..
    Zeke ISNT the #1 player in This draft. There are better prospects in this class, so why WOULDNT I hope a better prospect falls to #8? Id like to avoid such polarizing prospects if possible so I really hope that a better Prospect falls to #8 so we can avoid The entire polarizing RB position.., but if we pass on Zeke, it HAS to be because we are taking a higher rated prospect. It Cah Not be about devaluing any position to The extent that we pass on him for a kid with a lower grade. It can’t be about That, ESPECIALLY THIS YEAR Where we have the #8 pick in a draft class that has such a limited # of top tier prospects. when it’s our turn to pick, it’s not like we will have our choice of elite prosects at any position we desire. realistically we will most likely be choosing between one or two of the top Tier prospects left on our Draft Board. And when we have some good players, but lack special elite players, I really hope we take the best player at Whatever position this draft class provides us.
    ..
    It’s about Drafting playërs, not positions. I respect positional value, but not to the extent where we become a slave to us and pass on the best talent available because of his positon.. And it really becomes crazy to me when that positipn we are devaluing happens to be a legit need for us. getting a Stud RB can have a big effect in a few different areas…. The One argument that drives me insane is the position Longevity argument. I hate it!! With the high Nature of injuries at all positions, Roseman has to be a more to project 10 years down the line and allow that to factor into who we draft…to not take 7 great years from a RB because we can get 10 years from a tackle has No place in our draft. That’s just crap. With every position being at a high risk of injury, playërs retiring early these days, GM changes, coachng Changes, scheme Changes, Free Agency, Longevity has NO PLACE in the draft discussion..
    .
    Im not a big fan of the QB prospects, I don’t love Bosa, and I dont believe that Hargreaves and Stanley will be considered top 8 picks, so for me, if we pass on Zeke, im hoping its because one of the kids I like more ended up falling to #8: Tunsil, Ramsey, Jack, Buckner…. But ultimately I believe this will be one of the easiest draft decisions we will make because we are simply going to be choosing from whatever top tier prospects are still available, that could mean chosing between 3 playërs, or two players, or it could mean that the Eagles only saw 8 players as top tier guys in which case the decision would be a no BRAINER choosing the one player left on our board…
    ..
    We are in a GREAT position at #8. We get add one of the top tier prospects during a year where there aren’t many in this draft. Keep it Simple, take the highest rated player on our board at whatever player this draft provides. Hopefully there is someone with a higher grade available so we can get someone better than the polarizing RB. Im really hoping for Jack or Buckner.

  115. 115 Jernst said at 9:29 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    I agree. I don’t want to pass on a great RB for a servicable RT. That’s just stupid to adhere so stringently to perceived positional value. However, I don’t think you can ignore positional value either. Taken to the extreme, that’s why you would never draft a punter at 8th overall either. A guy that could consistently boom 60 yard punts with 5-6 sec hang time would be a huge weapon and would clearly become the best punter in the league. But, the amount that such a guy increases your chance of winning over a guy that you can sign off the streets that can hit 45-50 yarders with 4-4.5 second hang time is minimal.

    For me the debate about RB positional value isn’t about the ability to find studs later in the draft. Howie is right, you have a much higher likelihood of drafting a stud who ends up being a top ten rusher year in and year out if you take them earlier in the draft. I think the pertinent question though, is what is the value of such a player over average replacement level production that you could get with mid tier guys in a RB by committee approach.

    If you have a guy that can carry the ball 250-300 times a season and average 1300 yards per season while averaging 4.5 yards per carry, that’s a real nice weapon to have and it’s hard to come by. But, having a couple guys that can average 4.3 yards per carry behind a decent oline while each rushing for 700 yards per season, is very easy to find and the difference in production is minimal.

    The effect of RB production on a teams ability to win, I feel, is very situationally based. If you can convert a 3rd 1 reliably, that dramatically increases your chances of winning. If you can score from a yard or two out, that dramatically increases your chance of winning. Other than that, in today’s passing based NFL, the run game is essentially used as a change-up to passing to keep defenses honest and to put the offense in manageable down and distance situations. In those instances is having two guys that can average 4.3 yards a carry all that more useful than having 1 guy that can average 4.6. I’d say no. Aside from that, big plays are hard to come by in the running game, and when they do occur, it’s typically because the Oline opened up a big hole or a defender got way out of position and the RB gained 15 yards before meeting his first potential tackler. Guys like Shady that can literally create big plays are extremely rare and they come with the added negative of routinely losing yardage trying to create the impossible big play, which negates the benefits of routinely putting teams in favorable down and distance situations.

    So if you can spend less resources on a stable of RBs, one of which can convert short yardage well, one that can grind it out between the tackles and one who’s a home run threat/pass catching third down back, instead of spending premium resources on one guy that can do all three, you’re essentially ahead of the game when it comes to roster construction.
    Further, given the higher than average injury rate of RBs, it makes sense to spread that risk around to 3 similarly compensated backs rather than one bell-cow, who if he goes down, can tank the entire running game.

    Therefore, I just think the smarter allocation of resources is QB, Oline, DE, CB, WR, TE, S, DT, LB, RB. RB is all the way at the bottom because it’s the only position where two cheap replacement level players can essentially mimick or reproduce the same production of one stud. You can’t do QB or Oline or CB by committee. Two mid tier DEs won’t replicate the effect that one truly elite DE can have on a game. Same for WR, TE, S, DT, LB.

  116. 116 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:42 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Pretty simple for me…. Do a thorough evaluation of all the prospects, if Zeke is the highest graded player available when we pick, we should draft him. if there are playërs still available with a higher grade than Zeke, then we shouldn’t draft Zeke
    ..
    Only insane “Mad King” types like chip do all the work that goes into a scouting department put together their big board, and then ignore the board when it’s time to pick… By the time the draft is here, all the work should be done, and we should trust Our board and choose between the 1 or two top tier prospects still available when it’s time for us to make the 8th pick…..positional value IMO should already be incorporated in the grades/Big Board rankings. at #8 we should keep it simple and just take the player who sits at the top of our Board. We needs elite Top Tier talent, more than we need to draft a certain position

  117. 117 Jernst said at 9:03 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    I don’t love the idea of taking a RB that high simply because I don’t think they increase your ability to win all that much over replacement level production that you can achieve with running back by committee approaches. However, that’s not a knock on Zeke, that’s just my theory of where teams should allocate resources in the salary cap era to maximize their rosters ability to win games. In addition to that, next years RB class is supposed to be like 2014’s WR class, just over-flowing with talent. So, I’d also hate to take Zeke at 8th overall and miss out on a comparable talent that could be had next year with a much smaller draft resource expenditure.

    So, if he’s truly BPA, I’d prefer to trade down in that scenario. But, if like you said in your hypothetical, he’s clearly BPA, there’s no offers to trade down and no one else is available that we’d really want to draft that high then I feel you gotta do what you’ve gotta do and take the guy who’s going to have the biggest impact and that will probably be Zeke. So, I won’t be disappointed necesserily if he’s the pick, because we’ll be getting a great player. But, given any other reasonable alternative I’d prefer that over drafting any RB not names Adrian Peterson in the top ten.

  118. 118 Gian GEAGLE said at 3:41 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Im really hoping Trey Burton can handle the transition and win the starting FB spot
    ..
    I think Burton can become a nice added weapon in our passing game, capable of much more than we saw Under Chip. Regqrdless of where we play Burton, I expect him to grow into a player that we will want on the field as a pass catching weapon.
    ..
    While it’s obvious that his ability to lead block will determine whether or not he can be our starting TE, im really rooting for him, because the FB position can be weaponized in a west coast offense. I always wanted to Burton to earn a bigger role in the passing game, and becoming our starting FB is probably the easiest way for him to carve out a consistent role…
    .
    Trey Burton is a versatile. Athletic kid. Like Leonard Weaver (pre Injury), Burton could be a legit weapon, not just a lead blocker. He has plenty of RB experience so we could hand it off to him at times out of the FB spot, but his potential as a pass catching FB is what really excites me, especially now that we are going to be in a west coast offense.
    I always hoped that he would be able to earn an expanded role in our passing game, and earning the starting FB spot is Probably the best way to accomplish that. His Lead,blocking is what will determine whether or not he can be our Fullback, but his ability to catch the ball and take a hand Off is what excites me The most about him becoming our FB. He would be an added weapon, not just a lead blocker.
    ..
    With Burtons quality ST ability, if he can transition to west coast offense FB, he would give himself a chance to carve out a Longterm spot for him as an Eagle…. This will be his 3rd year in a pro strength and conditioning program, so as long as he is at least 230-240lbs, I don’t see him having a problem making the transition because of his Experience playing RB. Transitioning to FB isnt exactly Rocket Sciemce, like a RB, he still would have to hit a certain hole hard, but instead of carrying the ball he will have to seak out Contact, so as long as he has the strength and size to handle it, I don’t see why he wouldn’t be able to handle the transition.
    ..
    For me this important, I really see this as an opportunity to weaponize The FB positon. Burton has the pass catching ablity and talent, and the west coast offense is the perfect offense for if… With ERTZY and Celek ahead of him at TE, this is his best chance to carve out a consistent role for himself, while giving us an extra roster spot that we don’t have to use carrying a FB
    ..
    im really rooting for this kid and think this will be one of the under rated story lines of the summer.. his ability to play FB goes so far beyond a lead blocker

  119. 119 Jernst said at 8:55 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Agreed. It would be a nice boost to the roster too if we didn’t have to waste an additional spot on a FB. Having a guy that could be both the FB and the #3 TE depending on what the situation called for would be a very nice bonus.

    He’s got all the skill. The issue for him will be the mentality that goes with being a FB. That job takes a very specific, almost crazy mentality and damn near total disregard to your own physical well being to really excell at. You need to be a little off to play FB well in the National Football league. I’m not sure Burton has that in him, but I don’t have much to base that notion on given his lack of playing time the past few years. But, ive seen him on those cross over blocks where he’d cross behind the line at the snap and take out the DE, and he always did a decent job, but seemed more a get in his way and stem block him kind of guy rather than a pummell him kinda blocker.

    If he can develop that crazy nasty streak needed to lead block MLBs at this level he can be every bit of the weapon you’re talking about though.

  120. 120 Rambo said at 4:05 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Browns waived DB Ifo Ekpre-Olomu.

    A 2015 seventh-round pick, Ekpre-Olomu spent his entire rookie year on NFI rehabbing from ACL surgery and a dislocated kneecap. He said he was close to fully recovered in February, but the Browns cut him after he hadn’t progressed as hoped. It’s possible some team could take a flyer on the ex-Oregon star if he can prove his health, but his NFL future is in doubt.

  121. 121 Insomniac said at 4:11 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I find it funny that people wanted him last year but not Hargreaves this year.

  122. 122 A_T_G said at 4:16 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I remember a few people guessing him to us last year, but did anyone really want him?

  123. 123 Insomniac said at 4:23 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    A few people did but I also think they’re gone after Chip also left.

  124. 124 Gian GEAGLE said at 4:30 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    You a VH fan?
    ..
    Im not against the kid completely, it’s not like I think he is Johnny Manziel type who I flat out DONT believe can play at The NFL level. VH sould be able to carve out a solid NFL career for himself, I just don’t see him as this remarkable, special enough of pro talent who should be considered a top #8 pick. It’s not like I think he will bust and won’t be in this league, I just think top 10 shpupd be reserved for really special corners
    ..
    if Hargreaves becomes an Eagle, I sure hope that means we traded back first. Im not completely against drafting the kid, but I do feel strongly that he doesn’t belong in the top 8… don’t see how he can be considerd a Patrick Patterson, Joe Haden type of prospect,
    .
    I think Marcus Peters was CLEARLY a better CB prospect, heck I thought Desmond Trufant was CLEARLY a better CB prospect and he didn’t event come close to going #8th. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go on and have a quality career as a starting CB, but I struggle to see how he becomes one of the Elite #1 CB in the game. I don’t KNOW that he would eventually beat out DEATH ROWE for our #1 CB spot, and getting a #2 CB that high is unacceptable even if he can play. Think he is more appropriate for the 11-20 range, which is still a highly rated kid, but #8 just seems way to High IMO at least

  125. 125 Insomniac said at 4:39 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Not really. I get why people have him highly rated but I don’t get why people are so down on him.

  126. 126 Gian GEAGLE said at 5:00 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Think both extremes are a little off base…. He should have a good career, not a bust by any means, but I don’t see him having such a special career worthy of being one of The top tier prospects in the class. I would say, towards the top of the second tier of round 1 prospects is Probably more appropriate, and that should still see him drafted in the top 20 since the pool of top tier prospects is pretty shallow this yeàr.

    If He becomes an Eagle, I hope that means we got an extra 3rd round pick trading back and then taking him.

  127. 127 jaws80 said at 2:25 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    5-10, 4.5 speed, 10 interceptions, 27 passes defended in three seasons.

    peterson, in 3 seasons had 7 interceptions, 22 passes defended

    trufant had 6 interceptions,

    Hargreaves has the college stats to be picked as high as other cb’s in top 10. So some people can rightly argue in part “he is elite, top 8 player”

    Hargreaves has the physical stats – according to his spider graph – closest to Derrick Martin, drafted in 6th round and Terrence McGee, drafted in the 4th round..and Hank Poteat, drafted in 3rd round – so his physical stats are closest to 3-6th round picks.

    Patrick Peterson’s spider graph is closest to Ron Bartell. Bartell had a pretty mixed college career, as a senior was only 2nd team all mid-eastern athletic conference at Howard. But his physical stats were so good he went in the second round.

    A player with Hargreaves college production combined with a Bartell’s physical stats (6-1, 4.3, 211 lbs) would be a top-3 pick without many people at all being down on him.

  128. 128 Jernst said at 8:49 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    I agree. He just doesn’t have the measurables to match his production. Which doesn’t mean that he CAN’T be a good or even great CB. It just means that it’s less likely.

    Here’s a great study on the importance of 40 times for predicting CB success.
    http://thedctimes.com/2012/03/using-40-yard-dash-to-predict-cornerback-performance-in-nfl/
    I think it’s very hard to argue with the guys data and overall conclusions. And, if I’m lucky enough to get a top ten pick, I want someone that checks all the boxes, college tape, production AND measurables.

  129. 129 Insomniac said at 9:33 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    I addressed the measurements thing in a comment above. People are forgetting that it’s more than just having the measurables to be a good CB. Will it limit his ceiling? Possibly but there were plenty of raw and athletic corners that were drafted that didn’t amount to anything due to poor instincts/technique.

  130. 130 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:36 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    There is more than stats to be a good CB too

  131. 131 Insomniac said at 11:23 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    The best stats for a CB is pretty much almost no stats.

  132. 132 Jernst said at 11:55 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    This is somewhat of a logical fallacy. Just because players with good measurables have failed, or conversely that some players have succeeded despite less than ideal measurables, does not disprove the importance of said measurables. http://thedctimes.com/2012/03/using-40-yard-dash-to-predict-cornerback-performance-in-nfl/

    40 time, in particular, is incredibly important and a huge predictive factor in determining the eventual success of CBs in the NFL. If you like VH3’s tape enough to take him in spite of that, that’s fine, but you should acknowledge that you are doing so hoping that he’s the exception to the rule rather than what would normally be expected of someone with his stature and speed.
    I’d prefer to not take someone at 8th overall that would have to be the exception to the rule in order to have a career that would end up justifying such a high pick.

  133. 133 Insomniac said at 2:23 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    40 time is important for CBs but it’s not the end all or be all for them. I would be scared of getting a slow gambling CB because he won’t have the recovery speed to make up for his mistakes. However, this is why coaches teach CBs to use techniques. Keenan Lewis (4.47) shut down Djax (4.35) and Djax arguably plays faster than his timed speed (oh damn play speed?!). Then you see Djax burning guys like Deanglo Hall (4.34).

    A complete list of all pro CBs from the start of this decade that really dispels the notion that you need to be a track star to be a good CB. I don’t think I need to mention that pro day 40 times are always faster do I?

    Cornerback:

    Champ Bailey – 4.28
    Johnathan Joseph – 4.31
    Tim Jennings – 4.32
    Patrick Peterson – 4.34
    Darrelle Revis – 4.38 (pro day)
    Devin McCourty – 4.41 (moved to safety)
    Charles Woodson – 4.44
    Aqib Talib – 4.44
    Carlos Rogers – 4.44
    Nnamdi Asomugha – 4.45
    Chris Harris Jr – 4.48 (pro day)
    Charles Tillman – 4.49
    Asante Samuel – 4.49
    Marcus Peters – 4.53
    Richard Sherman – 4.56
    Joe Haden – 4.57
    Brent Grimes – 4.57
    Josh Norman – 4.66

    I love how you do your research but you need to give a little leeway just because some guy ran .02 – .1s slower in his underwear.

  134. 134 Jernst said at 10:04 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Definitely appreciate your response and your stance. Maybe we’re just arguing semantics, because I think we agree a bit more than we disagree. I’m in no way saying that running a 4.5 forty precludes VH3 from being or becoming a good or even great CB. Clearly there are a decent amount of examples of players who have played exceptionally well while not running sub 4.5 forty times. But, you have to recognize that those players fail to achieve that level of production far more frequently than players who can run sub 4.5 forties and subsequently players that have exceptional speed (and the skill to be drafted in the top rounds) are far more likely to succeed than those who do not.
    Just look at your list of top CBs that you provided. There have been 18 all-pro (pro-bowl?) CBs in the last 5 years according to this list. 13 of which have run sub 4.5 forty yard dash times. Only 5 ran slower than a 4.5 forty. The absolute best CBs on that list, Darrelle Revis, Patrick Peterson, Champ Bailey, Charles Woodson, Nnamdi Asomugha were all sub 4.5 guys.
    Of the 5 guys on that list that were not sub 4.5 guys, only Joe Haden and Marcus Peters were first round picks. Sherman and Norman were both guys that were able to be had with 5th round picks and Grimes was completely undrafted. Joe Haden went 7th overall. He’s become an excellent CB. But, after posting 6 INTs his rookie year he’s averaged only 2 INTs a season over the last 5. The Browns clearly hit on that pick, but I bet they wish they had taken Earl Thomas, Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas, Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski or even JPP (if you forget about his fireworks incident) instead. Marcus Peters had a phenomenal rookie year and looks like the real deal, but it still remains to be seen how his career plays out. The reason I point out where they were drafted (even though it doesn’t in anyway lessen their skill and certainly if the draft was done over with hindsight they’d be first round picks for sure) is because it’s one thing to take a flier on a 5th round guy who bucks all the trends and succeeds despite their physical short commings and quite another to take a guy high in the first round in spite of those short commings and hope he’s the exception to the rule. Joe Haden is the only CB taken high in the first half of the first round with a sub 4.5 forty that has produced at an all-pro level in the past decade. That’s significant. At least I think so.
    Of the guys on the list that are sub 4.5 but on the slower end, Samuel was a 4th round pick, Tillman a 2nd rounder, Harris undrafted.
    And that’s just going by speed. Typically these slower corners that succeed make up for it with exceptional height and length.
    Josh Norman is 6’1″ with 32.5″ arms
    Richard Sherman is is 6’3″ with 32.5″ arms
    Marcus Peters is 6’0″ with 31.5″ arms
    Asante Samuel is only 5’10” but with freakish 32 5/8″ arms
    Charles Tillman is 6’3″ with 33 1/4″ arms
    Chris Harris Jr is 5’11” with 33.5″ arms
    Nnamdi Asomugha is 6’2″ with 33.5″ arms
    Joe Haden is 5’11” with 33 1/4″ arms
    Vernon Hargreaves is 5’10 with 30 1/4″ arms
    Carlos Rogers is 6’0″ with 31.5″ arms
    Aqib Talib is 6’1 with 31.5″ arms
    Charles Woodson is 6’2″ with 32.5″ arms
    Devin McCourty is 5’11” with 32″ arms
    Derrelle Revis is 6’0″ with 32.5″ arms
    Patrick Peterson is 6′ 1/2″ with 32″ arms
    Johnathon Joseph is 5’11” with 31.5″ arms
    Champ Bailey is 6’0″ with 33″ arms
    There’s a definite trend here. So, none of this proves that VH3 will be a bad player or a bad pick. It just means that his lack of speed AND his lack of length put him at a severe disadvantage and present him with more of an uphill battle than most. Given his propensity to give up big plays and the fact that he was beaten plenty of times by faster and taller competition in college despite coming up with some flashy interceptions, makes him a lot more of a risk than I’d ideally like at 8th overall.

  135. 135 Jernst said at 10:49 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    So if Vernon Hargreaves ends up being a pro-bowl caliber cornerback, he’d essentially be the only CB drafted in this past decade that did so while being less than 5’11”. He’d also be the only CB to do so while having less than 31″ arms. And, he’d be only the second CB to be drafted in the top half of the first round without running a sub 4.5 forty that did so. Do you think that his tape is actually that good that he’d buck so many trends?

    At 5’10” he is going to struggle with the NFLs taller WRs regardless of how good he is. There’s just only so much skill and technique can make up for a 6 inch height difference.

    Being a slower CB is going to make covering blazing fast WRs more of a struggle than it is for someone like Patrick Peterson. And, when your entire game is based around jumping routes and guessing a lot to come up with INTs, you’re going to be particularly vulnerable to getting beat over the top.

    He’s the type of CB that you’ll need to put a safety over the top quite a bit and let him freelance and jump routes, knowing he’s going to get beat doing so at times.

    A guy that is going to have all these things to overcome and who’s game leaves him open to giving up huge plays to the offense, just isn’t my cup of tea when we’re talking about expending a premium resource like the 8th overall pick to obtain.

  136. 136 Insomniac said at 11:06 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Nope those that made the All Pro teams (first and second). Don’t ask me how they do the formatting as sometimes they do 2-3 on each team. Almost everything physical about Hargreaves is average if you want to go by the template.

    What’s expected out of college CBs

    At least 5’10, 185 pounds, 30″ arms, 9″ hands. Hargreaves almost perfectly fits that except that he weighs more. If he sheds about 5 pounds and gets that NFL strength and conditioning, he would be able to run in the 4.4s. I can see why people are afraid of his physical limitations but his game is trying to minimize it. He has good leaping ability to make up for his height. He has that burst to close in on people but won’t win the foot race with some WRs. He’s very fluid and physical.

    The main question is how much of it will translate to the next level. The best thing that we can do to project how good a player can be is to look at players in the same mold (Joe Haden). Haden and Hargreaves have similar traits as shorter competitive CBs. Hargreaves is better in run support, can play in any coverage scheme, and has ten pounds on Haden. Haden has arguably better ball skills, is more willing to gamble and has more length than Hargreaves does. Some people looking at just the skillset have Hargreaves as the more balanced player coming out of college. The NFL is funny business where things just don’t click for some players. For all we know, Hargreaves could be the next Joe Haden, Brent Grimes or Brandon Flowers.

  137. 137 Jernst said at 10:28 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Also, realize that I’m not saying it’s the end all be all for CBs. Just that slower CBs tend to not succeed at the same rate as faster ones. You are absolutely right in that technique can cover up for a lot of physical deficiencies. But, at 8th overall I don’t want to draft a player that needs to develop elite, perfect technique just to be able to OVERCOME his physical limitations. In fact, I don’t want any physical limitations if I’m drafting someone 8th overall.

    The logical fallacy I’m talking about is that you are confusing the idea of optimizing your CHANCES for making a successful pick (getting a true elite difference maker is in my eyes a successful pick with the 8th overall selection) with thinking I’m saying there’s NO CHANCE he becomes a successful pick. Just because there are exceptions to the rule doesn’t mean that the rule doesn’t still apply in general.

  138. 138 Insomniac said at 12:44 AM on April 4th, 2016:

    That’s the thing with this year’s draft. All of the top 10 players have their warts (more physical limitations than mental really) and we’re going to have to pick up the leftovers at 8th overall.

  139. 139 Jernst said at 1:17 AM on April 4th, 2016:

    Agreed. I’ve been playing devils advocate with both Hargreaves and Zeke as not being worth our number 8 pick, but I’m also not so sure that there’s going to be anyone better available when it’s our turn to pick that really blows me away. I would be very intrigued if either Jack or Buckner fell to us though. Neither of those fill a glaring need but both of them possess the elite skill set I’d be looking for in a top pick. I’d be luke warm but optimistic if we ended up taking Goff. I haven’t seen much of Joey Bosa to have a strong opinion either way. Stanley would be a decent, boring and unexciting pick, but I’d have faith that it would make us a better team in the long run, just not a big impact player. After that either Zeke or Hargreaves is most likely going to be the best player left.
    Howie always seems to make picks that make sense and don’t come completely out of left field, but I have this weird feeling that there’s someone else in their top ten list that we’re not even talking about right now that’s going to shock everyone when we make the pick.

  140. 140 Jernst said at 10:35 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Exactly. He definitely would be. But, he doesn’t have Patrick Peterson’s size or speed. Which, I think requires you to really dig deeper and try to decide if he’s really worth a top ten pick.

  141. 141 Gian GEAGLE said at 3:04 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    I don’t even think people are that down on him… Not for nothing, but thinking a kid should be drafted in the 11 to 20 range, instead of #8 ISNT exactly the same as calling the kid Dog Shit… If you think a kid should be drafted in the teens, you are basically saying that you think highly of him.
    .
    I don’t believe every draft will automatically provide a CB prospect worthy of a top 8 selection. I understand QBs in weak QB drafts get pushed up the board, but I’ll be damned if I do that with the CB position and try to fabricate a special CB prospect in the draft that doesn’t provide one.
    .,
    I don’t even love my boy Ramsey as a CB worthy of a top 8 pick, let alone VH. I think it’s a travesty if a team drafts Ramsey to play CB, taking away from what makes him such a special playmaking Safety.
    ..
    I wouldn’t be against the Eagles trading back and drafting VH, I just think we can do a little better if we stay at #8. That’s not exactly me spitting on VH and saying he sucks. I think he will be a solid starting pro. Id welcome him to the Eagles in the right circumstance. I just expect us to get more bang for our buck with this rare opportunity to pick top 10

  142. 142 Jernst said at 10:34 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    well said

  143. 143 Jernst said at 8:45 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Couldn’t have said it better myself! If we were drafting at 22-29 range I’d be ecstatic with VH. At 8th overall (especially after trading up), I want a guy that checks all the boxes. He’s gotta have great college tape AND the measurables to match. I’m not interested in taking a small AND slow CB at 8th overall regardless of how great his highlights are.

    Furthermore, he had a pretty decent dropoff in production from the year prior to this past year. He still made the big plays by guessing and jumping routes, but he started to get toasted on double moves and gave up a ton of big plays. That’s all we need is to draft a CB at 8th overall who’s too small to battle with the bigger guys like Dez and too slow to keep up with the DeSeans and Beckhams of the world, who likes to guess and take wild chances that give up just as many huge plays as he ends up creating because he doesn’t have the speed to recover when he guesses wrong.

    VH is a poor man’s Asante Samuel.

  144. 144 Insomniac said at 9:26 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Hargreaves is the 2nd highest rated CB in SPARQ in this years draft and would be the 3rd highest rated CB last year. That would be over guys like Trae Waynes, Marcus Peters, Kevin Johnson, Ronald Darby, Eric Rowe, and etc, That’s 97.3% better than all of the NFL. Haden ran a 4.4s at his pro day and that would be a 4.5s at the combine. He turned out just fine.

  145. 145 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:35 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    VH is not as good as Marcus Peters was coming out of college
    ..
    I’ll be surprised if VH goes on to even be as good as Ronald Darby.
    ..
    If only the draft was so easy that we could just look at stats to tell us who will be a great player,

  146. 146 Insomniac said at 11:22 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Not really. Peters was the most overrated CB last year in the draft and in the league. Peters did somewhat turn it around after his bye week but still this isn’t very flattering to look at when you dig deeper.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/12/23/pro-5-players-who-shouldnt-have-made-the-pro-bowl/

    ” Because interceptions aren’t everything. And what’s more, why don’t we look at the actual picks themselves? There is a big difference between the ball being thrown to you, and actually making a play on the ball. We can’t ignore the fact that Peters has been beat for seven touchdowns this year (fourth-worst in the league) and allowed more yards into his coverage (902) than every NFL corner except Pittsburgh’s Antwon Blake.”

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/12/28/pro-marcus-peters-has-been-a-star-in-the-second-half-of-the-season/

    “Peters is the most-targeted corner in the NFL this season, having been thrown at 132 times over 15 games, which is 28 more than the next corner.”

    VH3 is overrated but at this point who in the top 10 isn’t being picked apart? Ramsey doesn’t have the best hips. Goff has small hands and Wentz played in a weak division. Tunsil isn’t strong enough and so on.

  147. 147 Jernst said at 11:57 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Again, none of this disproves or discounts the vast data on the importance of straight line speed in CB prospects.

    Read this article and tell me if you still feel the same way: http://thedctimes.com/2012/03/using-40-yard-dash-to-predict-cornerback-performance-in-nfl/

  148. 148 Insomniac said at 1:34 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    I can care less about analytics about 40 times in underwear. Get me the 40 times when they’re on the field. This is an analysis on CBs from last decade. Last decade. Times have changed, the sissy track star DBs aren’t nearly as valued these days.

  149. 149 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:31 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    At #8 “I want someone that checks all the boxes”…… That’s really all that needs to be said about why we shouldn’t consider VH a top 8 player
    ..
    The more I see Ronnie Stanley, the more im starting to get the same Vibe I get from VH, nice prospect who can go on an have a nice career, but not special enough to take him at #8
    ..

  150. 150 Bert's Bells said at 4:23 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Dude was usually an A+ after the 5th round in that stupid draft game bozos post ad nauseum

  151. 151 Media Mike said at 4:25 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    YO!

  152. 152 D3FB said at 4:37 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Draft Jaylon Smith in the 3rd round! It always works out!

  153. 153 Media Mike said at 4:38 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Easy fix. IR him for the year, send him somewhere where the drug test guys can’t find him, and HGH him up! Or do whatever illegal space aged stuff you need to grow back nerves.

  154. 154 D3FB said at 4:40 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    “Ekpre-Olomu spent his entire rookie year on NFI rehabbing”

  155. 155 Media Mike said at 4:41 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Not with the right chemicals.

  156. 156 D3FB said at 4:43 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Oh, guys we messed up. We thought Kevorkian was some swiss institute. Our bad.

  157. 157 Media Mike said at 4:50 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Don’t temp me. I could get you an entire 90 man roster of guys who should be visiting the Kevorkian institute.

  158. 158 ICDogg said at 6:19 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    They could always try that place in Qatar that Embiid went to

  159. 159 Tumtum said at 12:07 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Are they blood testing in NFL now? Don’t think HGH is detectable.

  160. 160 FairOaks said at 12:25 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    NFL started testing for HGH in 2014. I don’t think they have caught anyone yet, but apparently the test might only work if they catch you within hours of taking it, so rumors are that HGH use is rampant despite the testing.

    According to the following article, though, the NFL may switch to a different test this year which might be more effective.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/peyton-manning-report-blows-lid-nfl-hgh-problem-article-1.2481234

  161. 161 Insomniac said at 4:53 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    We’re bound to hit on one of these injury gambles right??

    Cornelius Ingram
    Jack Ikegwuonu
    Chris Polk
    JaCorey Shepard
    Jaylon Smith???

  162. 162 Mac said at 4:55 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Jack Ikegwuonu

  163. 163 Insomniac said at 4:57 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    thank you.

  164. 164 Mac said at 6:11 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Np… all those guys had me banging my head on the table because the talent seemed obvious, but they just couldn’t stay healthy. I’m so tired of trying to make it work with injured players.

  165. 165 Media Mike said at 4:57 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    The burglary expert

  166. 166 Mac said at 6:12 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    That’s sad… I hadn’t even heard about that until just now.

  167. 167 D3FB said at 4:59 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    JIBTA

  168. 168 D3FB said at 5:01 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Shepard wasn’t really an injury gamble. He was pretty healthy in college, just got hurt in camp.

  169. 169 Insomniac said at 5:11 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Thought his hamstring injury that made him run slow was at the end of the season.

  170. 170 D3FB said at 8:00 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    I believe it happened during his prep. But a soft tissue injury is still very different than ligaments and nerves.

  171. 171 ICDogg said at 7:06 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Going back to Westbrook is a stretch I guess

  172. 172 Jernst said at 8:39 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    At least Westbrook came back from his injury in 1999 to have his amazing 2000 season at Villanova before we drafted him. I so hope we don’t return to the Andy Reid era policy of wasting 3rd round picks on injured players and huge projects like Bryan Smith and Curtis Marsh. When’s the last time we took a flier on a college prospect that was coming off a bad knee injury, that hadn’t yet returned to the field, and had that pay off? The draft is already such a crap shoot, why make it even less likely and more difficult for your pick to succeed?

  173. 173 Tumtum said at 12:06 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    I would say Polk worked out just fine. He never got a shot here but was a pretty darn good producer when he played.

  174. 174 ICDogg said at 6:27 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Rueben Randle: Mr Personality

  175. 175 Bert's Bells said at 6:35 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvPU-cvaKCM

  176. 176 SteveH said at 7:08 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Sounds like Kaepernick to the Broncos is an inevitability… Might complicate drafting a QB.

  177. 177 Dave said at 7:16 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I’d be curious what San Fran would do if Wentz and Goff went #2 and #4, assuming Kaep is gone. Would they take Lynch at #7, or wait for round 2 to take a QB.

  178. 178 Media Mike said at 7:35 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Take Buckner.

    QUACK

  179. 179 Mac said at 8:15 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    What if the Birds make a deal with the devil and move up to #4 to draft Goff allowing the Cowpokes to take Zeke! at #8?

  180. 180 Jernst said at 8:17 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    No way Chip would take Goff and his Donald Trump-sized baby hands. That’s literally Chip’s number 1 measurable for QBs. I could see him loving Wentz, but I’m assuming he’s gone by 7 anyways. I highly doubt they’d take Lynch that high, but who knows. Personally, my guess is he’d take Buckner or Zeke and either roll with Gabbert or possibly trade up into the late 1st if Lynch were still on the board then.

  181. 181 Greg Richards said at 10:54 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Chip doesn’t have personnel control in SF.

  182. 182 Jernst said at 12:00 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    No, but he also has a very good working relationship (for the time being) with both Baalke and Gamble who do run that side of things. He might not have control, but I highly doubt they’d pick a QB 7th overall that he didn’t want any part of. Stranger things have happened, but I doubt that they’d want to start off a new regime by saddling their HC with a first round QB that he doesn’t want.

  183. 183 Tumtum said at 12:05 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    If the GM forces players down a coaches throat it never ends well.

  184. 184 Gian GEAGLE said at 9:21 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Im not so sure about that… Depends on the $$$
    ..
    Does Kapernick want to get the hell out of San Fran enough to give up like 5mil?

  185. 185 A_T_G said at 8:17 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Holy hell, ‘Nova.

  186. 186 Fufina said at 8:19 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Mind blown…. awesome performance.

  187. 187 Dave said at 8:26 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    https://twitter.com/NotKennyRogers/status/716415680975777792

  188. 188 Media Mike said at 8:49 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    This is amazing.

  189. 189 Media Mike said at 8:28 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    And a-hole Bill Simmons said this

    https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/716347787260997633

  190. 190 Media Mike said at 8:30 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Simmons is ALWAYS picking against and/or ragging on all Philly teams. The world will be a better place when he dies bleeding because some other piece of Boston trash broke a Sam Adams bottle and stabbed Simmons in the neck with it.

  191. 191 RobNE said at 8:31 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    What does he have against us?

  192. 192 Media Mike said at 8:34 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    No clue, but his ripping of EVERY last move done by a Philly team transcends any one sport.

  193. 193 Gian GEAGLE said at 10:03 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    He is a Boston Groupie

  194. 194 Joe Minx said at 8:40 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Some of the replies to that tweet on his timeline are hilarious.

  195. 195 Media Mike said at 8:44 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    No doubt.

  196. 196 Joe Minx said at 8:36 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    HAHAHAHAHAHA

  197. 197 P_P_K said at 8:38 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Bill and I are different. I like to say stupid stuff in private.

  198. 198 RobNE said at 8:33 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    I think unc wins easily tonight

  199. 199 Aaron said at 8:26 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    hello

  200. 200 anon said at 8:54 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Browns waived DB Ifo Ekpre-Olomu

  201. 201 johhnyblaze said at 9:18 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Donte whitner released by browns also

  202. 202 anon said at 9:19 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    yeah too bad we already got another safety, would have been a good edition

  203. 203 GermanEagle said at 10:12 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    McLeod >>> Whitner. And it’s not even close.

  204. 204 bushisamoron said at 9:20 PM on April 2nd, 2016:

    Mental mistakes were the issue in NY. He is a talented 2nd round pick, not the guy you usually let walk in FA. That being said, some guys need a change of scenery, kick in the ass, whatever. He will definitely get chances on the Eagles. I think he gets 500k guaranteed so he is making the team for sure.

  205. 205 Jernst said at 8:13 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    People also forget how young Randle was when he came out. He was only 20 years old when he was drafted. Think about that for a second. Remember yourself as a Junior in college. A lot of guys don’t get drafted until they are 22, 23 years old. The guy is only 24 years old right now. Physically he’s still been growing (not in height…but in physical strength and ability) since most people don’t reach their physical peak until ages 25-27. Mentally, while certainly nothing is guaranteed and many people never mature, he’s still young enough where it’s reasonable to think he’s still coming into his own as a man and as a professional.

    Being a high draft pick at a position of need in a setting like NYC is a tough assignment for anyone. An immature 20 year old can easily be overwhelmed. And, it’s not like he’s completely folded. Just hasn’t reached the heights expected of him due to probably over zealous expectations.

    This isn’t like a 31 year old guy, or a guy that’s on his third or fourth team who it would be unreasonable to expect any continued improvement from. This is a guy who could easily turn things around and eventually fulfill all those lofty expectations. At worst he’ll continue to be a guy that can rack up 50-60 catches 900 yards and 8 TDs, which is a steal for what’s essentially a vet minimum deal with incentives on top.

  206. 206 P_P_K said at 9:05 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Good stuff.

  207. 207 Dave said at 11:40 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Shady and Maclin were both 20 when drafted too. Shady was, and still is, immature, but he still showed up on time and learned the playbook.

    The problem with Randle being benched for missing meetings and not knowing the playbook is that he has shown no desire to be great. The Giants gave up on him for that very reason.

    One thing he does have going for him is that he seems to have a player-friendly coach in Pederson and Jordan Mathews as a teammate. Mathews is the epitome of a positive reinforcement type of personality who wants to be great and improve everyday.
    But with his 1 year low-risk contract, I agree there is still time for him to turn it around.

  208. 208 Jernst said at 10:53 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    For sure. His M.O. in NY is not at all reassuring. Especially given the fact that the Giants gave up on him so easily and there didn’t appear to much of a market for his services which tells you that word has probably spread around the league about his lack of maturity or desire to be great or whatever his problem is. But, that’s exactly the type of guy that you can take an essentially no risk, incentive laden 1 year flier on and consider a good signing. It in no way solves our WR needs, but it risks nothing and has at least a reasonable chance of paying off, which is the best you could hope for with a no risk signing.

  209. 209 FairOaks said at 11:54 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    If reports that he cut short routes and didn’t give full effort on the field are true, and that he missed meetings etc. (was certainly benched for some off-field reasons), that is a bad sign. If he continues those things, then the 500K won’t keep him on the team. If he does suddenly dedicate himself, then he could be a steal. But the Giants let him walk for a reason, and that reason could bite us back (especially if it influences other young WRs or players on our roster). Hopefully the effect will go the other way around — he sees how hard Jordan Matthews works, etc., and changes his approach.

  210. 210 A_T_G said at 12:11 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    I don’t think we need to worry about the bargain FA kicked off his last team coming in a derailing Matthews work efforts.

    As for the other stuff, we have released players in the past where I was left fearing that if getting cut by us causes them to rededicate themselves, we are going to end up looking dumb. It is interesting to be on the other side.

  211. 211 FairOaks said at 12:18 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Yeah, Matthews and probably Agholor are probably immune to that. Josh Huff, not as sure, nor any other WR we pick up in the draft or UDFA.

    Have any of the players we released in those situations gone on to embarrass us? It happens, but more often than not a leopard doesn’t change his spots. We can hope that there was something wrong with his fit with that team which was the main problem, and that a change of scenery helps a ton.

  212. 212 A_T_G said at 5:27 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Yeah, I thought that too. The last one was…Cris Carter? So, yeah, not an every year kind of thing.

  213. 213 IronLion35 said at 12:03 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Unfortunately, Smith’s situation seems to be mirroring Ifo Ekpre-Olomu’s. I hope his injury isn’t as bad as Ifo’s but if it is he will fall to the late rounds.

  214. 214 Gian GEAGLE said at 9:53 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Any news on Wisnewski? I didn’t want him to leave Novacare without signing on to join us. Not knowing what we have in Josh Andrews or Barrett Jones, Id feel so much better about our OL if we had a quality #2 Center to give us insurance against Kelce’s past durability concerns, and if Wiz can beat out Gardner, Barbie and turnstile Tobin for the starting LG spot, that would be gravy.
    .
    By far, Wiz is The FA left on The market that I want us to sign the most. getting a boost at #2 Center and LG would be really valuable to us, if we can’t sigń Wiz, I hope they sigń a veteran stop gap/band aid like Jahri Evans for a year. Wiz signing would give us:
    .
    Lane
    Brooks
    KELCE
    WIz or Jahri
    JP
    bench:
    Rookie T
    rookie G
    gardner
    .
    And that leaves us with Barbie, Tobin, BUNCHE, Josh Andrews. barrett Jones, Dennis Kelly fighting over the last roster spot or two.
    .
    This would set us up to significantly upgrade our starting Unit, and our Bench. Id like to draft two Lineman, with at least 1 of them being drafted in the first 3 rounds. And the second OL drafted no later than round 5.. Draft another OL in next years draft and we should have a top OL in place for this new era of Eagle Football
    .
    The one remaining concern would be Jason Peters durability at this stage in his career. if he wants to remain an Eagle past this season. He can’t be in and out of the Lineup all year. hopefully Doug Pederson not forcing him to practice thru injuries all year (like Chip did) will help JP and give him a better chance to stay on the field for 16 games. I do hope that he agrees to move to Guard when it’s time, extending his career as an Eagle.. Put Brooks on one side, and Jason Peters at the other Guard spot and the power Those two would bring to the Guard spot should make KELCE the happiest center in the league, but I do agree with JP that he is still playing at a high enough level to not move him away from his LT spot just yet
    ..
    Even if we brought back the same team as last year, just improving our OL and run game would have a BIGTIME effect on upgrading our Offense. A better offense should also help schwartz build a better defense. Im starting to get excited about yeàr 1 of the Pederson era

  215. 215 Tumtum said at 11:59 AM on April 3rd, 2016:

    I’ve seen guys happier to get cut than he seemed to sign. Actually like that. Hope he has a serious chip on his shoulder.

  216. 216 ACViking said at 12:10 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Re: Speaking of Joe Haden and Vernon Hargreaves

    “NFL COMPARISON:
    Joe Haden, Cleveland Browns —
    More than just the Florida jersey, Hargreaves and Haden are similar in that they aren’t the biggest or fastest but both exhibit the instincts and competitive toughness needed for the NFL.”
    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/2079755/vernon-hargreaves-iii

    Someone on this site keeps arguing that Haden — coming out of Florida — is a cut above Hargreaves because of Haden’s better 40 time.

    That opinion is not supported by the facts. (Surprise!)

    Hargreaves also blows Haden away on the Short Shuttle.

    Not offering a rating on Hargreaves — because I’m not qualified.

    Just pointing out that “Truthiness-based” opinions are worthless.

  217. 217 Fufina said at 12:49 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Hargreaves looks plenty fast enough in short area’s. He is very ‘twitchy’ and has a fantastic change of direction. His long pace is not as fast as you would like… but frankly he is going to be 1-2 steps quicker initially and that will generally keep QB’s away from throwing his way as 2-3 seconds into the route he is going to be able to cover no problem at all.

    The comp i quite like for him is Asante Samuel (Although Hargreaves is more athletic in a short area), both are aggressive playmakers who are slightly on the small size but scare QB’s away from throwing their way and will punish and poor throws or decisions under pressure.

  218. 218 ACViking said at 1:16 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Nice write up.

  219. 219 unhinged said at 1:52 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    AND… Hargreaves will tackle. My only concern about picking him at 8 is that he might be glued to a Bryant or an Evans or you name the receiver, and elite QB’s will throw it high where the taller guy will have to jump to get it, and the short CB will whiff. If Jim Schwartz gets our DL playing lights out, VHIII could b the star of our defensive backfield, but he’s got a built-in ceiling that, to me makes him a risk at 8, and a steal in the 2nd round.

  220. 220 Gian GEAGLE said at 3:27 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Think he is way better than a 2nd round pick… Id take him in the teens,
    .
    If there atre 7 to 9 Top Tier Prospects, I have VH towards the top of that Next Tier of players that will be drafted in the Teens.. I expect VH to be able to play in this league. I don’t see him busting at all, I just don’t think this draft has a top #8 CB prospect. I don’t even like Ramsey as a CB for a top 8 pick. But I’d gladly take Ramsey as high as #3, maybe even two because I see him as a special play making safety..
    ..
    Not every draft class will have a CB worthy of being a top pick, yet like QB, every year almost someone will push the best CB into the top 8. id like to avoid being THAT team. It drove me insane when people tried to argue that Dee Milner was even worthy of being talked about for the 4th pick. I trust VH transition to the pros much more than I trusted Milner, I just think we can do a little better at #8 this year. If we traded back a few spots, added a pick and took VH, I would applaud the pick, But for me, there is a kid im almòst guaremteed to like more sitting at #8. That doesn’t mean I think VH is dog crap. Sayng a kid should be picked in the teens ISNT exactly an insult. I think it’s rare that a draft has a CB really worthy of being one of the top guys, yet in almost every draft a CB will get pushed up the board. Im just trying to avoid being THAT team. It’s not that I think he can’t play, because I expect him to be a solid first round pick. it’s just the opportunity cost, thinking we can do a little better at #8
    .

  221. 221 unhinged said at 3:51 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Denver is reportedly getting Kap, and I don’t disagree with your view of VHIII at 8. I wrote that he’d be a “steal” in round 2, because he probably won’t be around that long. Assuming Ramsey and Tunsil both go in the first 3, I would view Goff, Stanley, Buckner and Jacks as my favorites to make it to 8.

  222. 222 Gian GEAGLE said at 4:21 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    I think VH is a better prospect than Trae Wayans who was the recent CB to be pushed up The board and over rated, but just because the vikings did something dumb, I don’t think its ok for us to do the same thing. wayans has better measurables, but I think VH will be a better player.
    ..
    If we drafted VH, and teams offered us corners who are still on rookie contracts straight up in a Trade for example VH for Bradley Roby, or Ronald Darby would you turn down the trade and prefer keeping VH? I would jump to do that trade, but when taking a CB at #8, it should mean that you think he is so special that the answer should be Hell No!… Think he will be a solid starting CB, but at #8, I don’t see a scenario where he would be my favorite player available.
    ..
    I do tend to be pretty hard on CB prospects, but that’s because its one of the trickier transitions to make from College to the pros especially early in there career. Obviously if I thought this kid was going to be Joe Haden there would be nothing to debate, but that’s a rather ambitious comparison as far as I’m concerned.

  223. 223 Insomniac said at 2:36 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Throwing in Chris Harris Jr into this since they’re similar sizes.

    5’10
    200 pounds
    4.48s 40 (pro day)
    225 Lb. Bench Reps: 14
    Vertical Jump: 34″
    Broad Jump: 10’01”
    20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.20
    3-Cone Drill: 7.01

    He seems to be doing well for a short and not as explosive CB. However, he doesn’t play outside CB all the time so there’s that too.

  224. 224 Fufina said at 5:37 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Thing is Hargreaves is a freak athlete, he just is does not have elite long speed. For his weight (and he may be 5-10 but he is a thick 204lbs) his short shuttle (3.98), vert (39inch) and broad (130inch) makes him an elite athlete at the position.

    http://www.mockdraftable.com/player_embed/7762/selected/graph/

  225. 225 Gian GEAGLE said at 4:10 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    “bold Prediction: If the Niners DONT draft a QB in the first two rounds, Chip will start BLAINE Gabbert next year, citing How his short range accuracy makes him a great fit for his offense. this May sound crazy, but Chip Kelly is completely Incompetant and doesn’t understand NFL concepts”-Walterfootball
    ..
    Lol tell him how you really feel….

  226. 226 Dave said at 4:30 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    Brutal

  227. 227 Rambo said at 8:02 PM on April 3rd, 2016:

    So you’re saying Chip has repetitive accuracy??