The Complexity of Character
Posted: March 20th, 2017 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 509 Comments »Eagles fans want a Super Bowl. At any cost.
It is easy to say that, but reality is so much trickier. Are fans willing to cheer for players with serious questions in their past?
Football is a brutal, primal game. We talk all the time about character, but the clean guys Chip Kelly loaded the roster with didn’t exactly win a ton of games. It is unfortunate that sometimes the best players are highly flawed human beings. Reggie White was the anomaly, not the norm. He was a guy you could be proud of on and off the field.
Think about a pair of recent Florida State QBs. E.J. Manuel had no character issues at FSU. He had a good career, going 25-6 as a starter. He was a good student. Manuel was drafted in the 1st round, but that was a mistake. For all his good traits, he was a flawed prospect on the field. Jameis Winston is a very different subject. He was a great college player and led his team to the national title. There was no question that he deserved to be a high pick.
Except for character.
Winston was accused of rape. He avoided prosecution, but did settle a civil suit with his accuser. Beyond that horrific situation, he had other legal issues. There is also the fact that he handled the rape allegation so poorly. He never seemed to grasp the gravity of the situation and acted as if nothing happened. Even if he was innocent, being accused of something like that should be overwhelming and really affect the way you act.
I will never be comfortable with Winston. I’ll always think of the rape accusation when I think of him.
If I had to choose either Manuel or Winston to lead a TD drive to save my life, there is no question that Winston would be the choice. He is an infinitely better football player. And that’s what makes football and character such a complex marriage. If you want to win games, you simply cannot have the best people. You must be willing to embrace some turds, for lack of a more eloquent phrase.
Will the Eagles do that this year?
Ezekiel Elliott would seem to be heading to the turd category right now, but he had a brilliant rookie season for Dallas and is already one of the best RBs in the NFL. He’s a special player so he might be worth the headache. You know the Eagles front office had to be thinking about Elliott when they brought in Dalvin Cook for a visit. He could be their talented turd/star runner.
The Eagles could go for CB Teez Tabor in the 2nd round. He hasn’t assaulted anyone, but apparently has multiple positive drug tests. That’s also reportedly an issue with Alabama pass rusher Tim Williams. Michigan CB Jourdain Lewis was recently charged with domestic violence. The Eagles could use CB help, but is he a guy you want to draft?
Oklahoma has a pair of very talented prospects. Dede Westbrook is one of the best receivers in the draft. Joe Mixon has 1st round talent and looks like a special RB at times. But boy do they have issues. Westbrook had a couple of troubling incidents.
Before he was recruited by Oklahoma and his improbable rise to college football fame, Sooners WR Dede Westbrook was twice arrested on family violence complaints, according to documents obtained by the Tulsa World.
Westbrook was accused of throwing the mother of his two children to the ground in 2012 and biting the same woman’s arm and punching her with a closed fist in 2013, according to the report. Westbrook was never convicted in either incident, however.
Mixon is well known at this point. He punched a fellow OU student back in 2014, leaving her with 4 broken bones. The video is troubling to say the least. It is one thing to hear about arrests or drug tests or charges, but seeing the incident makes it feel so much more real.
It would be easy to say the Eagles should take all of these players off their draft board. Who wants to cheer for guys like that?
Kansas City took a chance on Tyreek Hill last year and he turned out to be hugely important for them. Hill was kicked out of Oklahoma State for choking his pregnant girlfriend. That’s about as troubling as it gets. He went to West Alabama and finished his college career. KC took him in the 5th round and he was a key reason that team got to the playoffs last year. Without Hill, they don’t make it.
Should they be embarrassed by having Hill on their team? Should they apologize for his success?
We all have to decide what we can live with.
I don’t believe in drawing a line in the sand. I know it is a cliche, but I do believe things have to be done on a case-by-case basis. One of the issues here is that we’re talking about young men. I was a better, more responsible person at 25 than I was at 20. Part of that is due to learning from mistakes. I never choked a pregnant woman, though, and that’s a huge difference. Being a knucklehead who drinks too much beer is worlds different from someone who is violent, especially with women.
In some cases, circumstances matter. Laveranues Coles had multiple issues prior to the NFL. Assault. Academic suspension. Theft. Improper benefits. He was finally kicked off the Florida State team. Quite the scumbag, right? It turns out he was sexually abused as a kid and that affected him for a long time. Becoming an adult and getting into the environment of professional football brought out the best in him. To my knowledge, he never got in trouble in the NFL and was generally considered a good player and good teammate.
Coles is the anomaly for the most part, but that’s why it is important for teams to judge players as individuals and not just draw a line in the sand.
I think one of the keys to taking a chance on a player with character issues is that you need to put that guy in the right environment. Think about Hill in KC. He had a strong head coach in Andy Reid. Alex Smith is a veteran QB and good leader. Jamal Charles, Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali and Eric Berry were the kind of team leaders who create a strong environment and police themselves. That’s a good situation for Hill.
Are the Eagles ready to handle a troubled player?
Carson Wentz is a young QB, but has already proven to be a good leader. Darren Sproles, Brent Celek, Jason Peters and Malcolm Jenkins are big time team leaders. Doug Pederson is only in his second year as coach, but he learned under Reid and seems to have a good feel for the locker room. I don’t think Pederson would bring in a questionable player if he thought his players couldn’t handle the situation.
The Eagles took players with some issues late last year. Jalen Mills and Alex McAlister each fell in the draft due to character concerns. Spending an early pick on Cook or the other players mentioned above would be a completely different story. That player would have high expectations and would be under a microscope. Every action would be heavily scrutinized.
The flip side is that the Eagles would be adding a key talent that could make the team better. Maybe much better. Risk. Reward.
Howie Roseman, Joe Douglas, Doug Pederson and the rest of the front office have to decide if this is the right time to take a chance on a player and if that player is in this class. Trying to balance having a team the city can be proud of and a team that can win games is a tough task. I don’t envy them some of the decisions they’ll have to make in the next month.
_
Gotta have faith in their vetting process I guess…
Worked out so far with Mills and Smallwood. If you believe in your staff and trust their process, you must also trust their evaluations within that process. Looks like they did last year, and they took some risks.
They won’t all work out, but how many of us have needed 2nd, 3rd, and 10th chances to get something right? I have, and I’ve been blessed to have people in my life to help me through those rough seasons and also help me grow as a result of those processes. I’m a better person for it, and that’s what I hope for these guys.
Mills and Smallwood did nothing last season.
I don’t envy them some of the decisions they’ll have to make in the next month.
I do. Solely when looking at their payrolls…
Getting paid millions of dollars to make hard, non-life-or-death decisions is truly the definition of a 1st world problem.
Great piece of writing, Tommy. This is quality sports journalism.
YOU ARE RETARDED
No question that Reggie White was a phenomenal player on the field. He was also a bible-thumping, closed-minded, ignorant bigot.
I turned away from him when he claimed God told him to go the Packers. Good ‘ol God, taking time out of running the universe to make sure Reggie got a huge contract and a Super Bowl ring.
Things to do today:
1. Tell Reggie to go to the Packers
2. Give 1500 little kids cancer
3. Help Susan find her lost keys
#2 tells me you have anger issues.
No anger…Just mysterious ways.
‘Gotta wonder if that guy should be on the roster, seems to have character issues.
“…though that club would be awfully useful against those infidel cowboys–don’t they know I can see them through that roof?”
Why do you keep letting the Pats win Super Bowls?
I thought we established that is the work of his antagonist?
They’re coached by the antagonist, actually.
!!!
not to mention, there were a few home runs that he gets credit for :). And for goodness sake, how many times does he(or she) have to help Susan? I’m thinking at this point she shouldn’t be trusted driving…
Sidebar: he delegates Susan’s keys to St. Anthony.
Yes, it’s a shame how people think differently from you. Such bigots.
A bigot has become someone who speaks the truth. Like Jews controlling the government, for example.
So, if he was a Quran thumping person, would you feel the same way? In other words, is it the person you have an issue with- or what they believe?
^ Virtue signalling 101
Never heard of that so I looked it up.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/i-invented-virtue-signalling-now-its-taking-over-the-world/
Now I get it. The Spectator is a conservative magazine so it makes sense that they coined the phrase.
I bet this is what Chase envisioned happening when he was let go…
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/843805924938694656
He wants a chance to start- the Jets will give him a chance to start. It still amazes me that Jay Cutler is unemployed, he’s a headache but he has serious talent as well.
living the dream….
The key here is determining who the person is and wants to be moving forward. Mistakes do not define a person. Mistakes provide the opportunity to overcome adversity and become a better one.
I did not want Mike Vick on this team. For all of the people against guys like Mixon and Cook, I’ll say that drowning, hanging, and electrocuting dogs is worse than what these prospects have done in their past. I didn’t think Vick deserved a second chance, especially not with the birds. Now I don’t think Vick is some choir boy and he didn’t save this franchise at QB, but Vick won me over. He is a significantly better person today, after his shot with the eagles than he was with the Falcons. He did all of the things he said he would do and overcame all the adversity he created for himself. If the eagles believe that Joe Mixon or another player is wants to follow that path I am all for being a fan to give them another shot.
I will say that I lose a bit of respect for people that are more bothered by the video evidence. There are more than a few people who want Cook, but want no part of Mixon. To me that is just plain stupid and morally backwards.
I remember when Ray Rice first got suspended. It was shortly after Wes Welker was suspended 4 games for a failed marijuana test. I could not understand how that made any logical sense. Knocking a woman out and dragging her out of an elavtor only deserved half the punishment of a non-performance enhancing drug. Yet once that video was release people were suddenly appalled. Fans were outraged, sponsors were pissed, and Ray was black balled from the NFL. I’m not defending Ray, but this is more of an indictment of the weak minded moral police that need to see violence to believe it. If you are going to take moral stance that’s fine, but that stance should not include whether there was a security camera around or not.
I believe in the eagles ability to make the morally conscience decisions. Lurie was clearly conflicted with Vick and that is a good thing. If they draft Mixon or Cook or another player I will give them the benefit of the doubt because of my faith in the guys making that decision.
“I will say that I lose a bit of respect for people that are more bothered by the video evidence. There are more than a few people who want Cook, but want no part of Mixon. To me that is just plain stupid and morally backwards.”
So freaking true
Not saying I’m for or against Mixon or Cook being drafted by the Eagles, but don’t you think there is a big difference between someone you (as a fan) KNOW for a fact is guilty vs. someone who has been accused and found not guilty?
Sure, you could argue that, in your opinion, he PROBABLY did it. But that’s my point, there is a difference between committing a crime and being found guilty vs. being accused of a crime and being found Not Guilty.
To call people stupid for relying on the evaluation of evidence and the justice system and their own eyes vs. unproven accusations seems like a biased and/or ignorant assessment, if you ask me.
I’m not talking about innocent until proven guilty.
I’m talking about people only caring when they see it with their own eyes
“Being a knucklehead who drinks too much beer is worlds different from someone who is violent, especially with women.”
WELL SAID.
5real. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/43c3267d36fdda90996490996e57e1ff564de380f69580833055e3d269fc52b1.gif
this is in no way an excuse for anybody..it’s just a thought to consider…this IS the day and age where kids need to be coddled and at the same time, have a huge sense of entitlement. These are kids in a different world then when I grew up. Point is, they are kids. That’s the hard part (as mentioned below) trying to decide what’s shear stupidity vs. anger issues……
No mention of Vick? hmmmm…
The idea that young people today are “more coddled” than motherf—ing baby boomers is absurd beyond ridiculous.
it’s once removed…so not so beyond ridiculous…baby boomers weren’t pussies crying in college…
I feel a micro-aggression here. You should put a trigger warning on such statements.
Boomers wrecked the nation but they at least had the sense to protest for free speech and not against it.
Jimmy has a video of all Alshon’s targets from 2016 up. Man did he school Jalen Ramsey last year. Excited to see him in green.
Great video- I’m watching 2 minute clips of it in between work.
I’m not the biggest fan of the Alshon signing, but he is a legitimate weapon and I’m excited to see what kind of chemistry he and Wentz can develop. All things considered, it’s a good move and if we can continue to build for the long term- we are off to a good start
Guess i’ll add a link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay1aAMLVGkg&feature=player_embedded
Our talented turd? Nice.
I think it’s a little simplistic to say that the team underperformed for Kelly because he focused on high character guys. From a business perspective, character issues are like injury issues – they are an additional risk factor, and you want to minimize risk while maximizing potential. But there’s also the fact that character issue guys frequently are also not the best team guys. Exceptions like Steve Smith Sr. stand out. We all saw in 2004-05 what a star player with character issues can do for a team, both positive and negative.
Bottom line, I greatly prefer to see a team that errors on the side of players I can feel good rooting for on Sunday. It’s one of the many reasons I would not want to be a Cowboy fan.
Maybe follow up on a similar piece on IgglesBlitz posters. I can see it now, “It’s rumored that P_P_K did some really stupid things when he was younger but the guy is a genius now.”
AP – “IgglesBlitz P_P_K has a troubled history. Linked to multiple murder and espionage cases in England and Russia during the tumultuous Cold War years, he was named in connection to questionable individual such as Walther, Bond, No, Goldfinger, and Orlov.”
“But after a horrifying injury involving Goldfinger’s laser, P_P_K never touched a woman again.”
That scene still freaks me out.
“He and his companion, A_T_G — the Underscore Bros. — have never been captured.”
Upvote for Walther PPK reference.
Pointless article for moron consumption.
I guess it depends on the circumstances, frequency, and talking to not only people at college but their family & friends. From a football perspective, how competitive is the person & how do they respond to adversity.
If you put most people under an intense microscope, you would find plenty of moral and I bet even criminal lapses too. Just because you didn’t get pulled over and arrested for DUI doesn’t mean that you didn’t do something wrong.
I bet everyone on here (unless they don’t drink) has driven at some point that would put them past the legal limit especially at 0.08. I have. Never driven really drunk behind the wheel but I bet when I was under 30 I would have blown past the limit if I had gotten stopped a number of times at 0.08. Basically 2-3 drinks in an hour at my weight.
I don’t think anyone’s talking about not drafting a guy because of a DUI, or even a drug offense. Multiple offenses, assaulting a woman, those are the types of things that can (and in my opinion should) affect a player’s career.
Seems like the Giants want to have an answer from DT Hankins about their pending contract offer.
Hankins apparently hasn’t found a better offer somewhere else, but the Giants are losing patience with him..
I occasionally think about this and I wonder when they will add neurologists to the physical teams do on visits.
Football will always have individuals with aggressive tendencies. Football nurtures and rewards that aggression. This doesn’t make them bad people, I’m not saying football makes bad people. Football is also about discipline and control. You walk that knife’s edge, and for the most part I’d say football players do it very well. The problem is that a young man’s frontal lobe typically doesn’t finish developing until the mid 20’s. Add in alcohol, and suddenly keeping an aggressive impulse on the leash can be very challenging. In certain situations, almost impossible. We try not to judge in the mental health field, we understand that if we had their brain chemistry, we would be doing the same things. I believe that a young man should have a chance to redeem themselves as an adult.
Unless: Fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. This is why I mentioned the neurologist. Long story short: a mother ingests alcohol at a critical moment in their fetus’s brain development, the frontal lobe is permanently stunted. Left unchecked, this individual will make a lifetime of bad decisions. Mix that with an aggressive personality, and you have real trouble. A shocking amount (for something that is not a commonly known diagnosis) of repeat violent offenders are on the fetal alcohol spectrum.
It should be noted that because of neuroplasticity, these individuals can improve with help, and if caught in childhood they can grow up to be relatively normal adults.
You can’t Minority Report prospects. That would lead penalizing a guy when he hasn’t done anything wrong because his brain images look funky.
I meant it in the context of this article when you have character concerns. You can diagnose someone with FASD and chances are it just means they are a man-child. It doesn’t mean you are going to attack someone. Just that if you’ve previously established that behavior, you don’t have the wiring to effectively avoid it in the future without intensive behavior therapy.
My point was that if you begin profiling people due to neurological testing you will save yourself from some mistakes. You will also unnessecarily penalize people who have no past or future of violence. How far down that rabbit hole do you go? It’s more of an ethical slippery slope than anything.
The slippery slope is an irrational fear. Legalizing gay marriage doesn’t bring in bestiality, legalizing weed doesn’t mean legalizing heroin is imminent. Using science doesn’t necessarily bring a sci-fi dystopia. Change is more like a pendulum than a slope. Even that is flawed, there is no momentum to these things. Every change you make is an attempt to find equilibrium at “correct”. You have a thesis, you have your antithesis (a proposed better way), they synthesize to make a new thesis. The antithesis of the new thesis isn’t necessarily more extreme than the last, just a proposed better way.
Front offices aren’t super eager to take talent off their board unless there is a damn good reason (with damn effective reasoning). If a team thinks they’re being super progressive by trying to predict criminal behavior in people that have no criminal or violent history, someone (the Patriots) will benefit from you being an idiot and turning your nose up at a player for no reason. That would be your antithesis, and you’d adjust to it before you lose your job.
The spirit of my argument is that we should stop moralizing and trying to label these kids good people or bad people. If they can grow up and mature, they should have the chance to do so. If they medically cannot, best stay away if they have a violent history.
I don’t agree with you entire premise, but do agree that we should drop the labels. Colt Lyerla is a example of a guy that could not get his shit together. Maybe he couldn’t help it. Brandon Marshall had some medical issues he had to overcome. While not a saint, most of his troubles have passed.
I think we both are coming from a similar desire on this. I don’t like the idea of someone who made a mistake not getting a chance to learn from it and be better. I think too many people don’t get that opportunity out of fear that they may be bad or broken. I don’t think either of us support that.
I just think the NFL fully embraced mental health and neurology, not just to weed hopeless cases out, but to help the people that need it, give them a chance. If you shouldn’t attempt an NFL career because your brain is already showing signs of CTE, they should know. If Brandon Marshall is an untreated Bi-Polar, get him help before he almost ruins his career by being labeled a cancer. If he wasn’t tremendously talented, his career never would have survived that. As I mentioned, I work in the mental health field. I think if you have a troubled background, 99.9% that should be a non-factor if you make use of the resources the mental health field can offer.
you may or may not know that there are physical traits as well, a big one being a smooth ridge between the upper ridge and nose. I know this was just an example, but you may not need to invade privacy (with a neurological test) to guess at this diagnosis. And again I know this is just an example, but I couldn’t find out about any with a quick google search.
I learned a little about this while becoming an adoptive parent. Along with all the other bad behaviors etc. that could harm the fetal development.
It was initially thought of as a syndrome. A syndrome is pretty cut and dry, you have a whole bunch of symptoms with a common cause that make a syndrome. So while those symptoms may not be unique to the syndrome, the combination is unique and has a specific cause and specific medical implications. They started calling it a spectrum because all the symptoms aren’t all always present, because the same cause can cause the same medical concern without every symptom. I wouldn’t recommend trying to eyeball it.
I see the distinction now thanks.
Good movie reference.
How is that any different from requesting xrays from a repaired ACL?
Good question. Or, for that matter, measuring ankles and wrists to assess their body’s ability to add muscle and resist injury.
Are you under the assumption the ankles and wrists are as complex as the human brain?
I am not.
This response implies that your objection is based in the accuracy of the testing. Personally, I was probing the idea that there’s is a moral element to making inference into a player’s potential based on data. Frankly, I thought you were as well.
No one questions the morality of measuring how high a kid can jump or how fast he runs, or how thick his wrists are. In fact, we make a spectacle out of it. Yet the league is full of guys who proved these metics flawed.
No one questions the morality of an aptitude test or classroom grades to measure learning and processing ability, despite well documented shortcomings.
No one questions the morality of using medical techniques to assess the risk in previously injured joints. Would there be objections if a team asked for full body MRIs of all potential draftees? Maybe, probably. I find that interesting.
And I see the moral questions surrounding scanning the brain to measure the player’s potential. They are legitimate, and I am not sure where I sit. I find that fascinating.
The entire profession of scouting is based on using imperfect tools to make often inaccurate predictions with life-altering consequences measuring things outside of the individuals’ control, and we admire and celebrate innovations in it. And yet here is a line in the sand.
But to answer your question, no.
I was joking.
A person is truly his brain. We see a person jump high, run fast, lift heavy but those are not his identity. Neurological testing could give you some clues, but even physical test are proven wrong on a consistent basis. Those things are more tangible and are still faulty.
Imagine being a gun loving good natured guy (I know this will be hard for you ATG.. always so serious) and going for a job interview. They said they like you but you brain scan shows you have aggressive tendencies and it is against company policy. That’s some crazy shit right there. It’s simply unethical. Even the military doesn’t do that.
But doesn’t that already happen? They just have to talk to a shrink for awhile or take you out for a round of golf now. Personally, I rather be judged by a brain scan than by my fairway woods.
And why is it ethical to pass on me because my wrists are too small to endure the physical stresses of the game (I’m 90% sure his is the only thing holding me back) but it is unethical for them to pass on someone because they feel their frontal lode is too small to handle the emotional stresses of the game?
Honestly, I don’t know. It feels different, but maybe it is just unfamiliar.
1) a bad ACL impacts athletic performance. Many of the things revealed in a brain scan have nothing to do with athletic performance.
2) an acl that has been torn has a history of problems. A person with no history of violence should not be penalized because of brain images. A player with violence in the past is already downgraded based on those past events much like the acl.
Dion Jordan is available guys!
What. A. Bust.
Think of all the games he missed. Now think about how he only has 1 less sack than Marcus Smith.
I don’t think he loves football, but the guy could still be a good player if he gets his head on right.
He has length, spend, and can bend. Sounds like a wide 9 guy to me…DE problems solved.
I think he’s worth a shot. We could even probably get him for veteran minimum.
Thankful we didn’t waste our pick on that guy and his multiple drug suspensions, and instead took… aw, dammit.
Maybe he was just tanking until he knew Chip was safely out of the league?
Anyone have any thoughts or clues as to why it didn’t work out with him? Other than the PED’s, the inability to grasp an NFL defense, and a non-Chip supportive environment?
I have insomniac blocked do some reason. Think it was an accident. Who are we talking about?
Dion Jordan.
http://mia.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Dolphins-plan-to-cut-Dion-Jordan-51853352
It was PEDs? I thought it was meth.
You are correct. Maybe not the meth part
http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/28/8509015/dion-jordan-suspension-dolphins-substance-abuse-violation
I was looking too. Couldn’t find meth, but
“He missed six games in 2014 while serving consecutive suspensions for positive tests: one for MDMA (ecstasy) and one for marijuana.”
I would give him a shot without hesitation after reading this.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/dolphins/2016/05/30/dion-jordan-miami-dolphins/85155838/
Is it hypocritical to be more concerned about a prospect with a violent past, just because it was caught on tape? Yes. Yes it is. It shouldnt make a difference weather it was taped or not. That is how it has to be. With that said, having tape of an incident takes away all the guesswork that is reasonable about it and can allow you to give a person the benefit of the doubt, like; who was the aggressor, what lead up to that moment, how ‘hard’ did he really hit the other person, etc.
With that preface, let me say this: If the Eagles draft Mixon, I’m out. As a fan. I refuse to support anything connected to a person, who can do that.
If any of you have mixed feelings about that, I suggest you to youtube and watch that video. Watch this big, strong boy knock a harmless girl straight in the face, into the ground, with all the force he can summon, putting his full body weight behind his fist. Watch him ignite and explode in a split second of rage, completely out of the blue and out of control. This is a person to whom that kind of behaviour comes naturally. You simply cannot convince yourself otherwise.
You can not have a man like that on a team you root for. You simply can not. I don’t care if drafting him would guarantee us a championship, not one bit. I’d much rather be without it.
Someone pushing you and punching your neck isn’t harmless IMO.
But she didn’t harm him, right? You argue your point well, but that is not how our society works.
How many times would an 8-year old have to hit me in the neck before it is okay for me to punch him in the face with all of my strength?
How many times does a kitten get to scratch you before you are allowed to throw it against a wall?
How many times getting poked with a cane gives someone permission to take it and use it to beat an elderly curmudgeon?
Fair points and I’m definitely not advocating his reaction, just trying to rationalize it. Hoping we don’t draft a sociopath.
3 times.
twice.
Once.
In other words, 3, 2, 1. Or something like that
It’s a difficult conversation. we have to be careful not to casually write women off as completely powerless like a child. Sure if it was a sanctioned boxing match he is pretty safe. It’s important to remember in the real world we all have soft spots and any aggressive adult is potentially dangerous adult. In my opinion they’re both human garbage.
Only one of them were a 230 pound ripped athletic freak though. The other one was a tiny girl. It amazes me that we are even having this conversation for real.
I don’t know what to say. Sorry for having a conversation for real?
Ohno, that’s too harsh. I am happy with the conversion, and you are entitled to that opinion. It just doesn’t make sense to me. You seem to be suggesting that she had it coming, or that it was somehow self defense on his part. And I am having trouble wrapping my head around it. Like… Really?
I wasn’t suggesting it was fair in any way. Or right. But in in the examples given that I was responding to, you have to have an inherent belief that you are just superior to the other person. Like, don’t let the kid get to you, he’s just a kid. Don’t let the old person get to you, they’re crazy. Don’t let the animal get to you, it’s just a dumb animal, it doesn’t know better. You’re above all that.
If you think you’re impervious to being pushed to your breaking point and beyond because she’s just a woman, I doubt it. If you think your weight training will protect your eyes, throat, or testicles, and besides she’s just a woman she can’t hurt you, you’re wrong. You’re just not that superior. Do we look down on women so much that they can’t even have an equal part in escalating a confrontation to violence? Can’t even talk about it?
The video is hard to watch, the physical disparity makes it terrible. We all know it’s wrong. If anyone had control of that situation, I’m sure they’d fully agree. I just don’t think anyone had control. That a huge problem if you’re looking at Mixon as a prospect. But I think you can grow up, get help, get control. I think his career should hinge on that, but I believe he’s so irredeemable he shouldn’t get his shot.
Well.. it was in self defense. Do you disagree on that? The issue is that it was completely disproportionate, not that he wasn’t defending himself.
“She had it coming”? I don’t know if I’d phrase it that way. But if you escalate violence, you can’t claim the moral high ground when someone escalates back. In that situation, you’re just both in the gutter.
Notice that’s not excusing his actions, either. He should have enough control not to retaliate. But I confess, I do have a mite more sympathy for him as the retaliator, compared to if he’d been the initiator of the physical confrontation.
I guess if a 5 year old hits you its self defense to break their face too. What happened to people’s sense of honor?
Of course, that situation would be even more disproportionate, and rightly condemned even more strongly. Like I said, nothing above is excusing Mixon’s actions.
But are we really equating a woman with a 5-year-old? I mean, the 5-year-old gets a break because, well, they’re 5 years old and still learning they can’t just lash out violently whenever they get angry. And they really can’t do much damage. But a grown woman lashing out like a 5-year-old having a tantrum is nothing to be proud of, and much more dangerous.
I guess all criminal law is about grading people on a scale of culpability. Every homicide is bad, and means someone has died; but manslaughter gets a lesser punishment than first degree murder. These are the delineations we make.
I think we mostly agree here. Except for the first part. If you want to use the term ‘self defense’ to justify violence, the prerequisite is that there need to be a danger from which you have no other choice but to defend yourself. Probably some lawyers or law students on these boards can give us the precise legal definition, but that is the essense of it. Its only self defense if it is nessecary in order to protect yourself from harm, and only if you dont have the option to protect yourself in another way. Clearly, in this case, he did not need to knock the light out of that girl in order to defend himself from danger. There was no danger and he had plenty of options. He could have just stepped back. He could have given her a light shove, even. He is so much bigger and stronger that the term self defense simply does not apply, even if she did provoke him. Which I admit that she did.
Because the same subversive element that used feminism to turn women against their nature is now trying to do the same to men with MRA shit. Both are cancerous.
Please tell us more about womens true nature.
Who is “we”? Do you need to pretend as though you’re speaking for a collective rather than yourself as an individual because you lack the confidence in your opinions to claim them as solely your own?
Here’s s clue: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9c742240b70dd8785c80cb82b7de169e241695e6f046f0fc284fb3859eb34ffd.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2fd412805da530059bc23b8fdba3e9bc7dab6171dedc2be2fc497413e0332c9f.png
If you think I lack the confidence in my opinions to claim them as my own, you have clearly not been paying attention. Have a nice day sir.
Look man, we’re not gonna judge you just because you enjoy being pegged. This is a safe space.
…and que the gay rhetoric. Right on schedule. Good job buddy.
Do you think your conformist views approving of homosexuality somehow make you enlightened? They don’t.
Please keep talking. We are all learning a lot about your character.
Again you feel this need to identify as a member of a group instead of an individual. Why?
This is a public forum, so I was really just stating a fact. But dont let that distract you from your point. I believe you were about to expand on your well informed views on the true nature of women and sodomites, please go on.
We think that you’re a passive aggressive and dishonorable twat. Please stfu so we don’t have to listen to it anymore.
All you’re trying to do is use shame and fear of group condemnation to get me to stop expressing ideas you don’t like. Which is very much like a woman. Sad! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fc8c2597de79181e9af63213dd6f4ae760ef5bc4b149fbfa977fde71619307be.jpg
Fortunately you are not one to be ashamed of your views. You are an inspiration to all of us.
Look, my point is if you have an opinion fine, but speak for YOURSELF. Don’t speak for anyone else, and don’t base your opinions on whatever the popular groupthink of the moment is. It’s weak. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a23eba68f2e30ae693f0ea459875c123b49b2606e5d6bae77ec0a2abd0eca87a.png
That’s funny because I was under the distinct impression that your point had to do with your expert insights into the imperfect moral habitus of people whose sexual identity differs from your own. Go figure.
You talk like a fag, and your shit’s all retarded. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9c742240b70dd8785c80cb82b7de169e241695e6f046f0fc284fb3859eb34ffd.jpg
I apologize. I will try and use simpler words in our future dealings.
Dude, i understand just fine what a pretentious twat you are. The problem is that you don’t understand how dumb you sound when you’re trying to sound smart.
How long do you imagine we can keep this going?
Eh, I’ve lost any rancor that I had towards you earlier. I’m sure you mean well. As an olive branch, let me offer you a point of view that you are, I imagine, predisposed to opposing, even though it’s the truth. http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/jared-taylor-whites-deserve-homeland-46212603
Logic and reason; not emotion. Bon chance mi amigo. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/18949cac94af860afe0aff5427dc4829d70093ad88d3762bd0c9bf5c1d33c67e.jpg
What a truly honorable gesture. It warms my faggot heart.
Moderators: requesting total profile ban owing to use of “f” and “r” word hate speech.
True, and depending on the particular individuals the power balance might be less one sided. In this case, though, beyond the genetics one of those people has trainers assigned to him whose entire job is making him as strong as possible.
If you aspire to make obscene money playing a game that values toughness and strength, you don’t get to punch women in the face. Or, really, anyone. I would be okay with that expectation.
I think when 2 people get that mad, I just think all that goes out the window. Just 2 people in that timeless escalation. She wasn’t thinking, “it’s a super bad idea to hit a super pissed off elite athlete right now”, he wasn’t thinking about his future. Watching people escalate is like watching a car wreck in slow motion.
Look, i wish I could say Mixon is special. I wish I could tell everyone here that they’re better than him. That your heroes are better than him. That if a normal person were that mad and got hit, they would take a breath and think about their values and beliefs and future. But it just doesn’t work that way. Our ability to avoid violence is our ability to control our emotions and avoid escalations. Mixon needs help and to grow up. He absolutely lost control and did something terrible, unthinkable. But I don’t know he’s some irredeemable monster that stalks and bullies the weak and helpless on just this.
He’s not just being trained to be as strong as possible. He’s being trained to react physically, quickly and powerfully to physical confrontation. Which, unfortunately, he did.
I can empathise with his flare of anger at being attacked. I mean, I’ve felt that anger when my two year old has bludgeoned me in the head from behind, before knowing what had happened or who it was. But you obviously have to control it.
And I don’t agree at all, that she couldn’t have harmed him – I’m betting she at least caused pain which made him flare up.
Having said that, his response was out of all proportion. It’s like shooting someone in a road rage incident.
But ultimately, I feel little sympathy for the woman in this case, either, when she was the aggressor.
Well, to come full circle, if he is wound that tightly and wired that poorly, I don’t want to risk a 1st round pick and starting job on him.
And that’s fair enough. But is he really going to be a first round pick?
I mean, my thoughts are more, “How far does he need to fall for us to consider taking him? And what do the scouts need to see from him to make that happen?”
You’re going to get pilloried just as much for taking him in the 6th as taking him in the first. When, if ever, does the value become good enough? Maybe some team will say stuff it, why bother letting him slide if we’re going to get slammed for it anyway.
I can’t see him becoming an Eagle.
If this is where you want to take this debate, I invite you to really think it through. We have both seen the tape. If this is your position, we are not going to agree. Not even a little bit.
When making statements like this I invite everyone to think about the single worst thing they have ever done being caught on tape and made public to the masses. This is the only thing 99% of people have to judge you on. Is that fair? Would you be comfortable with that?
You probably haven’t broken a girls cheek, but maybe you have cheated on your spouse. Maybe you have used racial or homophobic slurs ala Riley Cooper. Maybe you were so drunk you did something you never would have done sober.
All I’m saying is a single mistake does not define a person.
Additionally many people on this site have overcome adversity. Whether self inflicted or due to circumstances out of one’s control overcoming adversity is admirable. If Joe Mixon is willing to meet these challenges head on, show remorse (he has already done so), and become an advocate to prevent domestic violence and violence against women, that is admirable. It doesn’t erase what he has done, but people deserve the right to correcf their wrongs.
Mixon may not be a good person deep down. He may not be remorseful or want to right his wrong. Without being able to personally dig into exactly who he is and plans to be I will not close the book on him. I said it below, but I do trust the moral conscience of the Eagles brass. If they drafted Mixon I know they did their homework.
I will counter this with “You are what your record says you are”.
If you go 4-12 you’re a crappy NFL team. If you’re on tape punching chicks…
And you can continue that quote with “at the moment”. A team can start 0-4 and they are what their record says they are. They can still go on to win the super bowl. People can chance and grow. Especially 20 year old kids.
Agreed.
Okay.. Let me see if I understand your point of view. You seem to, on a general level, want to normalize what Mixon did, and you seem to argue that we should identify with him and his backstory because nobody is perfect. Here is how I would answer that: I have no idea what you are even talking about!
I might know around 100 people in my life intimately enough to be knowledgeable of their background. Maybe more than that. And I dont know anybody who has ever done anything that remotely resembles what is on that tape. There is nothing normal about it. It is not something that could happen to anybody. And, quite frankly, it bothers the shit out of me when people make the argument that ‘nobody is perfect’ and that people deserve a second chance.
No. Here is an alternative to that gospel: People dont automatically deserve a second chance just by virtue of being flawed people. Second chances are deserved by those, who earn them. That is what ‘deserving’ something means. And I cant tell you a single thing that Mixon has done to deserve one so far, except for being good at football. And that doesnt count!
Here is the thing; I was actually in support of bringing back Vick. I was proud of the organisation for how they handled that, and I was inspired by him. What he did was despicable. But he served a long sentence. And he worked very hard for a very long time, to earn that second chance. He was consistent, he was humbled and he did everything he could to redeem himself, and every single thing he did since he was sent to prison confirmed that he did in fact repent and become a better person. He championed the cause against animal abuse, was a leader in the locker room and an examplary story about how a man can change. And he talked often and openly about it, to inspire others to change.
If MIxon does all this, then I might consider the possibility that he deserves a second chance – that he truly is a different and better person and that he deserves it. But he hasnt. And he has shown no desire to do so, as far as I can tell.
What you are saying is that he ‘might’ be willing to do these things in the future, and if the eagles think he ‘might’, then you are ok with them drafting him. Thats not how this works. Not for me, and hopefully not for Lurie and Roseman.
You are missing my poin, but I think we ultimately agreee.
I am not saying the eagles should draft Mixon. What I am saying is that from a distance and with minimal information we can not accurately know who Joe Mixon is. The Eagles will. They have tremendous resources to discover the true Joe Mixon, how he has handled the video being released, what has he done to better himself, etc.
I am not simply going to write him off based on the video. If teams like the Eagles, Giants, Ravens (teams I know have a guiding moral code) all pass on him, than I know he is not a guy who is worth rooting for. If he ended up an Eagle I would not irrationally stop being an Eagles fan. I would know that the young man had been vetted thoroughly and had deserved the opportunity. Cooks seems more likely than Mixon at this point and the same goes for him.
You are saying:
video + drafted by eagles = not an eagles fan anymore
I’m saying:
Video + drafted by eagles = I am optimistic that he is a quality person overcoming a horrific past event
I guess we have a different level of faith in the eagles organization, which is odd considering how we both felt they handled the Vick situation well.
Okay, let me make a final point on that: If the only people in the world who knows weather this man has redeeming qualities are the scouts and investigators who are doing background checks on him, then he has not done enough. We need to all know it. It needs to be obvious, to everyone, to the whole world. Its not enough to have a change of heart or feel remorse, although it is a good start. You also need to act on it, and act out. Talk is cheap. Anyone can feel remorse. That doesnt earn you respect in my book. It is what you do to correct it that counts.
Again we agree.
I do feel believe that the entire incident became very real for Mixon when the video was released. When his mom, his sisters, his aunts, his classmates all saw it. While it should have come earlier, if that proved to be the catalyst for change, that is fairly recent and we may not have caught wind of his actions yet. If he flaunted them it comes off as insencere.
If I had to bet I’d say that he is an entitled athlete that is looking to distance himself from this incident as quickly as possible. That he has no intention of righting his wrongs. That he will be drafted by the Bengals because they don’t give a shit. I see mainly what you see.
My only point was that if he became an eagle I would not stop being an Eagles fan because I have faith in the organization. I am keeping an open mind until I have more information.
Well, I guess that part of my original post was hyperbolic as well. Of course I couldnt stop wanting the eagles to win. I dont think. That would be oddly irrational, like you said. I would just hate it if they figured that his talents on the field made enabling him off of it worth while. I will never be ok with that thinking.
For the record, I would love for him to redeem himself. He could go on to do great things, on and off the field. Sometimes the most socially conscious people are the ones who have emerged from the dark.
Thanks for a very civil and straight forward exchange. I really enjoy this discussion, and I appreciate you taking the time to having it. Much respect and gratitude. Let us all hope that whatever happens is something that we can feel excited about.
I’m going to be honest here; I felt your original comment was hyperbolic in part, but I refrained from replying and intead I read through your exchange with Kajomo and I’m glad I did.
Much respect to the both of you.
Maybe if he underwent a brain scan evaluation…
I’m gonna say something that’s probably idiotic, but here it goes –
I’ve never seen the Mixon video until today. The woman on the video pushes him once, then after he reacts (threateningly but non-violently), she pushes/punches him again, hitting him in the neck. He reacts by punching her once.
This, to me, points to it being a spur-of-the-moment, emotionally charged reaction that he probably regrets.
Contrasting with the Ray Rice video, Ray Rice was the fiancee, contemplated before decking Janee Rice, and then callously dragged her out of the elevator, dropped her torso from about 1ft after pulling her out, and then pushed her body with his foot.
I think that what Ray Rice did was much worse than what Mixon did. For that matter, I think what Adrian Peterson did to his child was much worse than what Mixon did. Peterson hit his son so many times with a switch, on his inner thighs that his scrotum was left bleeding.
Mixon reacted to someone assaulting him.
I don’t see the difference between Mixon punching the person attacking him, and me going up to Mike Tyson (or D3FB), pushing them twice, once in the neck, and getting cold-cocked. I’d expect others to have no sympathy for me.
Bottom line – you’re not allowed to be violent with anybody, period. But if someone is violent towards you you have the right to respond, and there’s not a restriction on how much ‘in kind’ you must respond.
He’s 6’1 220lbs.
He runs a 4.5.
She poses literally zero threat to his safety.
Walk away.
You ever see a skinny white girl run to Starbucks when pumpkin spice lattes are back in stock? She’d beat him in a 40 yard dash every time. He wouldn’t stand a chance with that 4.5 dash.
It is appreciated. And, frankly, I like how civil the discussion is in here still. Why I love this site.
Feminisim made women hate men and now MRA’s are making men hate women. Sad!
Chuck Finley is 6’6″ 220 lbs.
Tawny Kitaen is 5’7″ and probably 120 lbs.
She posed zero threat to his safety…until she didn’t.
Beating women is good.
What a truly dog shit fucking take.
Bottom line – don’t go out of your way to defend guys who beat up people unless you’re a defense attorney.
I don’t think that is what he’s trying to do in this- he’s presenting the other side of the coin. There are two sides to every story; the video does show him being assaulted by a drunk individual. He reacted. He did so in a violent manner.
Was it right? No. Was it on the level of the video which showed Ray Rice abusing his fiancee? No. Has he changed? That’s the question.
This is a very thoughtful, considerate, well-explained minority opinion. It took courage to write this. I don’t agree, but I respect your willingness to share. This contrasted against Ankerstjernen’s post that argues the opposite point in a similarly high quality post are why this place is great.
Mixon walked up to her and the other guy. I don’t see a gray line, to me it’s black and white. She didn’t pose any threat to him, he should have walked away. For the record, AP did not hit his son out of anger, he disciplined him the same way he himself had been raised. It was wrong, but intentions matter to me.
Yea he definitely should have walked away that’s the obvious answer here, of course.
The thing about AP was that hitting your child that many times, inner thigh, pants down, etc is sadistic. That’s the only word I can use to describe that. It’s pure sadism. I’ve received corporal punishment, and once or twice with a paddle is plenty of pain for a child to bear. He was literally abusing someone who is supposed to trust him no matter what. Really despicable.
Put it this way: if he really was in physical threat from that girl, I don’t want him on the team for entirely different reasons. 😉
“I don’t see the difference between Mixon punching the person attacking him, and me going up to Mike Tyson (or D3FB), pushing them twice, once in the neck, and getting cold-cocked. I’d expect others to have no sympathy for me.”
You’re not a woman. Bad double standard I guess, but you’re not a woman.
For what it’s worth, I actually agree with you here (though I know people are set in their opinions on the matter; so, like politics, I tend to feel there’s very little point in engaging the subject online).
He definitely should have just walked away, but the situation in the video makes it a little different than just a guy having an argument with a girl then suddenly and inexplicably going violent on her (as the reporting seemed to imply). No one would even be talking about it if the other party had been a male of similar size to the girl (who theoretically would also be “not a threat”).
The woman definitely provoked the attack, but his response was completely overboard.
Risk/reward assessments to me hinge on where someone is drafted. Last year the Eagles took some risks later in the draft, where the risk was less (wasting a late draft pick) & the reward was potentially higher (gaining a better player than could be expected at this point in the draft). The same mind-set should apply this year. If the Eagles are OK with the off-field issues and a player drops lower than expected, then take him. A first round talent, still available in the third round, should be under consideration. But pass on him in the first round and probably in the second round. First, second and “turds” don’t go together.
Another great one Tommy. You couldn’t have said it for me better, as far as dealing with these guys in general.
Disagree on the case of Winston though. There were some pretty in depth stories (court transcripts maybe even??), that I read. Those articles or court docs, cleared him in my eyes. Immature? Sure. Doesn’t seem like a bad person.
I’d go the reverse on Winston. He seems 100% not cleared to me at all.
If I am bored, I’ll try and find what I read before and evaluate again. Maybe I remember.
This would not be an issue if the NFL had a zero tolerance for players who assault women, Players who physically bully women should not be in the NFL, period! It would be amazing how quickly this stuff stopped.
They’re slowly moving that way. Not quickly enough, not good enough yet, but way better than where it was.
Totally agree. When rules don’t discriminate (enough) on this type of behavior, you get perverse incentives where teams who favor winning over all else benefit from the rest of the league’s devaluation of these types of players. Dallas and CIN come to mind.
exactly
But that should be on the teams, not the league.
I keep going back to this. The Eagles are guided by a solid moral compass. If the Eagles select one of these guys you can sleep well knowing they did their due diligence. They have turned over every rock, discussed it at length, and have a tremendous belief that the person they are bringing in, is substaintially better than the person who committed these offenses. That’s enough for me as an Eagles fan.
If the Cowboys want to be scumbags let them. It will continue to bite them in the ass.
Exactly. I bet Dallas even tells prospects to hit women in the face. “We won’t spend higher than a 3rd for you, so if you want to be a Cowboy, you’ll have to do some crimes before March.”
What makes the NFL different from anything else? So woman beaters should never be able to have any job? I don’t want them at my grocery store either. Let’s ban them from that. If they are violent towards women they probably have road rage so let’s take their cars away.
I don’t want to sound as if I am defending them, but the over blown, knee jerk mentality is not helpful. If a person commits a crime they should be penalized by the law. Once they have served whatever punishment was deemed necessary they have the same rights as everyone else unless the law says otherwise (like sex offenders). If you are unhappy with they way they are punished take it up with your lawmakers.
What is helpful is the NFL stepping up and providing quality education about violence. They could put stricter policies from re-instatement into place with anger management classes and other counseling required.
Apparently we just give up on people and forget about things like second chances, human rights, and the judicial system. We should be a forgiving and rehabilitate society, not one that simply closes the book on people. Especially when you actually knowledge of the person is limited at best.
There are multiple professions where certain criminal issues in one’s background are a permanent barrier to entry.
I don’t see a need for the NFL to implement such as policy.
That’s fair, I just happen to disagree.
There’s a big difference between depriving a woman beater of the ability to eat and have a roof over his head, and depriving them of a million dollar lifestyle. Let this piece of shit wash dishes.
I’m getting way off topic at this point, but I would extend this logic to sex offenders, too. When you look at the homeless population, it’s basically all due to a combo of the three reasons: 1) mental health 2) addiction 3) registered sex offender. Sex offenders can’t live anywhere near a school, and all schools are built near population centers. Kind of besides the point, because sex offenders can’t afford an apartment because nobody will hire them.
If we decide as a society that the punishment for rape is a lifetime of homelessness, then the judge should read that when they’re being sentenced. I don’t have a strong opinion either way that it should or not be the case. I do know that homeless populations are a huge draw on the tax payer to the tune of mid 5 digits every year.
Have we signed anyone today?! Boring…
try political news
I hear they are announcing the winner of the rushin’ title, or something like that.
More than a few well reasoned and balanced thoughts in today’s thread. For any late comers to the discussion (like myself) try to avoid the temptation to TL:DR the long comments because they’re some of the best… and skimming won’t do them justice and might cause one to get an imbalanced picture from a balanced comment.
Hear, hear!
If our politicians spoke – and listened – like the members of this board, we would all be much safer.
You forget: You are still stuck with the same electorate 🙂
That, sir, was uncharitable. 😉
Only if politics also had a “block user” feature for extreme cases.
From the mothership yesterday– Think 14 is too early for him. I would take him in the 2nd though. If we overdraft a corner, I would prefer Conley but I’m sure they don’t care lol.
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/videos/videos/Meet-The-Prospect-TreDavious-White/08eb52bb-4b23-42f0-b7e6-6188beb1e64f
Thing is, “overdrafting” at 14 and then taking another cb in round 2 almost certainly makes the team better for the next couple of years. So while it may be suboptimal, it’s not the worst of outcomes.
The boredom is real if I’m playing this stupid draft game
Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 14: Corey Davis, WR, Western Michigan (A-)
Round 2 Pick 11: Garett Bolles, OT, Utah (A)
Round 3 Pick 10: Sidney Jones, CB, Washington (A+)
Round 4 Pick 12: Chris Godwin, WR, Penn State (B+)
Round 4 Pick 32 (COMP): Damontae Kazee, CB, San Diego State (B-)
Round 5 Pick 11: D’Onta Foreman, RB, Texas (A+)
Round 6 Pick 10: Jalen Reeves-Maybin, OLB, Tennessee (B)
Round 7 Pick 12: Stevie Tu’ikolovatu, DT, Southern California (A)
I would be very okay with taking Jones in the third.
I’d be doing flips.
Normally doesn’t pan out though…
When I was looking up how to spell Jack Ikegwuonu to back up your point, I saw that he and his brother are serving a 10-year prison sentence. His life probably would have been much different if he didn’t tear his ACL preparing for the scouting combine.
I love Howie during the Free Agency and trading period (except for the Daniel and Foles signings the last few years). But I am sure there will be a few head-scratchers during the draft in which he “out-smarts” everyone.
Got a link for that? – I’d lost track of them long ago
No, it often doesn’t. But neither do a fair amount of third rounders. The reward potential is off the charts, though.
Opportunity cost is pretty high, though. It seems the draft is deep enough (from what I’ve read, at least) that there should be some immediate contributors there in the 3rd round.
I wouldn’t freak out if it happened, but I’d also understand if they passed that early.
Drafting a healthy 3rd rounder is still more likely to succeed than playing Russian roulette with injured rookies.
Now if he slides to the 4th or even 5th round we’d be talking..
Achilles injuries for fast twitch atheletes are a bad bet.
The only thing is, if you swing for the fences with a character flawed guy it better be a hit.
A hit? I think it needs to be a full fledged punch in the face.
Wait, that’s not right…
On the flip side, Ags seems like an extremely hard worker and good person (aside from the whole stripper sex thing). The draft is a crapshoot regardless who you take.
He’s got the dead eyes of a shark.
Well this sucks…
https://twitter.com/CharlesRobinson/status/843953970561404937
Wow, extremely surprising.
A shame, but I can’t begrudge him trying for a big payday. Especially given he plays a role that never gets the highlights and the hype.
Well,
Ben better not tear his ACL in his contract year with the Chiefs..
Sounds like he’d gotten more guaranteed money from the Eagles.
MM will be happy to know Kenjon won’t be back…
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/843955783553499138
I actually just got a Twitter pop up telling me that Media Mike sent the announcement to the IgglesBlitz regulars on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/mediamike2015/status/843956926207709184
NOOOOO!
Interesting. Was told DT Bennie Logan had a very sizable extension offer on table from #Eagles during the season and turned it down. Whoops.
Mmmmh, if that’s true I am not sad that he left. Seems like every player tends to get greedy and overvalues his worth.
Let’s see if his greed comes back to haunt him…
Dave was quicker.
Jets are signing QB Josh McCown to a one-year deal, per sourxe.
LolChase. Now he cannot even beat the Mighty Josh McCown for battling for a starting gig. How the mighty have fallen.
Maybe the Chiefs will resign him so he and Bennie can console each other.
Bennie is a starter. He wouldn’t understand making a boatload of money for doing nothing at all.
Chase feels he is a starter though. Interesting that McCown got $6M from the Jets and Chase walked away from $7M for greener pastures.
I’d imagine both Bennie and Chase will be drug tested by the league early since it’s apparent they’re both smoking something.
I don’t think we can go into the season without spending a high pick on a RB. Not letting Wentz have that crutch of a decent RB will hinder his development (or maybe accelerate it, who really knows).
Evidence says quality rbs in the nfl don’t correlate well to high picks and its a very deep rb draft.
Very few running backs are effective when there are no holes to run through (paging Demarco Murray). On the flip side, many running backs are effective with good line play.
Jason Ashworth, who first reported Logan’s signing with Kansas City, also expressed this sentiment last week. Ashworth says he heard Logan turned down $9 million per year while Robinson says it was actually a little more than that.
#LolBennie
It’s apparent Bennie was all about the money.
Not a real surprise here.
I’m thankful Brandon Graham didn’t think that way when he was a free agent.
That’s his agent for you. Did the same thing w/Cox but he’s infinity more valuable for us
So much for character. It would make me love wentz so much more if he signs for 5 mil a year to help us win a super bowl. Surprised more franchise QBs don’t do that. I mean who really needs 20 mil a year when you can make millions on ads and other bs. And really no one needs 20 mil in there pocket let alone 20 mil a year.
I think the only reason Brady signs for less than market value is that his wife makes $30M per year.
So all the people that claim Curry’s deal is the reason we couldnt pay Bennie and are angry at Howie, needs to cool down now.
Hooked on this nonsense, sorry guys!
Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 14: Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama (A)
Round 2 Pick 11: Charles Harris, DE/OLB, Missouri (A)
Round 3 Pick 10: Elijah Qualls, DT, Washington (A)
Round 4 Pick 12: JuJu Smith-Schuster, WR, Southern California (A+)
Round 4 Pick 32 (COMP): Damontae Kazee, CB, San Diego State (A)
Round 5 Pick 11: Corn Elder, CB, Miami (Fla.) (B)
Round 6 Pick 10: James Conner, RB, Pittsburgh (A+)
Round 7 Pick 12: Jeremy Clark, CB, Michigan (C-)
Foster and Harris as our 1st 2 picks would be amazing, and i like Qualls as well. James Conner would be amazing value in the 6th.
Not sure who is playing outside corner for the sixers in 2017 but the rest of the roster is looking pretty tight.
#USC bias aside… Juju in the 4th?! These drafts are so ridiculous. But they are fun. Sucks that we get all hyped up with expectations and then will return to an underwhelming draft that we talk ourselves into when half the prospects we draft, we will have never heard of.
Dunno if it is that insane. I think he is a mid 3rd rounder, and from there falling to the 4th is not exactly outside the realm of possibility.
Other than the insane trades firstpick is generally a good way to see how drafts can go. There are always weird slides on draft day where a player just does not fit team needs/tastes and suddenly is picked a round later than they really should be.
I’ve seen Corn Elder’s name in so many of these mocks, I’m starting to think he should be a 1st round pick.
He is a decent CB with a memorable name, which helps him stand out when your lost in the 5th round and barely recognise any of the prospects still available.
He’s almost entirely a slot CB, but should be a good one at that- he could be a real possibility as he’s got the tenacity that Schwartz looks for in his secondary.
I was intrigued by your first draft, but now you’ve gone and drafted a USC WR. You are dead to me.
But 4th round might be the limit
Ruben Foster, OJ Howard, Corey Davis, all would be fine w me so far
would schuster drop to the fourth? i thought he was a 2nd round pick
4th round probably not, but he could fall to the third.
After the top 3 I think teams will have the next tier as: Godwin, Samuel, Kupp, Taywan, Henderson, JuJu, Zay, Adradius.
Depending on what a team wants probably determines what their board looks like.
I know this has been discussed, but do you think the Eagles are looking for someone in the mold of Smith, or Jeffrey in the draft?
I’d lean towards Smith. But after this year its a good possibility that Ags, DGB, and Matthews won’t be on the team. And all of a sudden we are looking at rebuilding another part of our team entirely.
I would say more like Alshon but that’s because Alshon can move the chains while being a decent vertical threat at the same time. A bit more evidence would be DGB or what he could be.
For me, DGB has one more year to prove he’s an NFL receiver before we let him go. Some have given up on him, but there’s a lot of potential there; especially with a couple of veteran receivers coming in to help lead the way.
My assumption is that everything works out perfectly between Wentz and Alshon. Smith also has a good year, but Jeffrey is the direction that the team really wants to travel. He seems like the type of long-term fixture that the core can be built around. Smith will be here because his contract is favorable, if nothing else he can provide veteran leadership for a reasonable price.
I really like Davis in this draft- to me he has the potential to be a legitimate #1; maybe not in the mold of Brown from Pitt, but comparatively similar to Dez or Thomas from Denver. He’s got the body type, but he really works hard at his routes and seems to play every play like its his last. He could learn here without the pressure to produce like Ags had to endure.
I think DGB has two years left here. Matthews and Aghs probably aren’t part of the future. DGB obviously has his flaws but Doug wouldn’t trade for him if he didn’t think he could get the best out of him.
Smith is a stopgap at best. I think he’s here until we could groom a WR to replace him.
Hopefully the WR to replace Smith is already on our roster (either Ags or DGB). Our team has lacked leadership in the WR corpse, and bringing in two veteran receivers as well as a coach with a stable track record should get the most out of these guys.
I’d really love to see Ags pan out here; he can be a good NFL receiver, but he hasn’t handled the pressure or expectations well. He runs excellent routes, gives everything he has every play, and has the physical ability that most teams covet.
Unfortunately, his head is a mess. Dropping down the depth chart should help him to relax and play the game, but at some point he’s going to have to overcome the hurdle and become a player. I’m hoping that point is a clutch TD catch to bury the Cowboys, but in the end I don’t care how it happens as long as it happens.
No. He’ll be a low 3rd round pick at worst.
I like listening to Greg Cossell breaking down film of prospects. He is very high on Juju, singled him out as a player that would become a very good starter in the pro’s. If we could somehow get him in the third and collect DE/CB at the top, then pick up a high upside RB, I think we might have maxed out our draft scenario.
The one thing I LOVE about JuJu is he can’t even buy a beer until November. He’s insanely young.
Great breakdown of Warmack:
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/3/20/14985082/eagles-film-room-chance-warmack-guard-titans-jeff-stoutland-philadelphia-offensive-line-tape-review
Shout out to D3FB on there too.
Awww man I was just about to say the guy who consulted on the piece is a know nothing dumbass.
Funny, so was I!
I’m glad that Bennie wanted to bank on himself for performing well on a one year contract when he’ll be 28 and nearing the wrong side of 30 as a NT. Lets not mention that he can’t rush the QB and turned down 9 million a year. Thanks for your time here but don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
At 9 mil, does that mean Bennie would have meant no Alshon? I liked Bennie, but I like the outcome more.
I believe we would have had to cut Kelce and Kendricks to fit both guys We most likely wouldn’t have signed Torrey Smith and Foles too.
Anyone know the franchise tag for a DT? Interesting that they were willing to pay him 30? 40? 50? million, but tagging him was never discussed. That shows a real commitment to not forcing players to be here.
DT tag is 14.7 mill
Well, that is quite a bit more. Never mind then.
Nice thread here. Add blocking feature and this place is a really nice place to hang out. Even the disagreements are polite. Counterpoints and reason are actually accepted as valid and people change their mind or disagree with their own reasoning. We could so run the country better than those doing it.
Running the country is about power; we’re here to have fun. Slight difference 🙂
Anyone defending Mixon should be neutered. I will never watch the team until ownership changes if they draft him. He should be in jail, and I don’t care what she called him.
This was such a good discussion because it did not include posts like yours. I read the entire thread and not one person defended Mixon. People did share many points of view, but everyone agreed that what he did was wrong. This is complex issue that has implications beyond football. People have the right to share their thoughts in a respectful manner.
Golly I’m sorry I didn’t give a more nuanced take on the moral ambiguity of an athelete in top physical condition following a woman into a bar and shattering her face.
In Denmark jail time for punching someone is like 2 months.
But how you write it, nobody who has ever broken the law should be able to play football? Is it okay to be super drunk, put several lives at danger and get an DUI? Is it okay to strangulate your GF but if there is no video, it didnt happen?
I have nothing but contempt for any “man” that would defend the shattering of a womans face by this animal.
Would you draft Cook? Do you root for Jalen Mills?
Obviously the evidence for either of them is not comparable and as far as I know comes down to hearsay. Innocent until proven guilty matters, and obviously there’s a lot more ambiguity in those cases. If a woman had her face shattered in either case, then yeah, I won’t root for them.
It’s hard enough to support Mills when he wags his finger like a moron after breaking up a 5 yard out when he’s already given up 150 yards in a game.
Question: What if when Mixon punched her, he happened to slip and his shot missed. People shout him down, and he leaves. No one gets hurt. No one’s face gets shattered.
The intent was the same. His mind was the same. There was just a bit of water on the linoleum. Is he still an irredeemable piece of scum? Is he still undraftable by a respectable team? Would you root for him?
Still scum.
I agree. Emphasizing the “shattered her face” bit blurs things, though.
Wow, that was like the stuff that Socrates guy does.
She deserved it tbh and hitting a woman isn’t even that bad. If women want rights they can take the left
Not very impressive. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9b35ca8171fdb3e815bf089edcb3f4518e29f3f02aa6c48b67030f08280c52b3.jpg
off topic question, is that a Putin vanity pic for your profile? I can’t tell from my cell phone.
It’s more of a humorous thing.
More total yards from scrimmage (not returns) next year?
Barner or Smallwood?
Hmm i think Barner could take over Woodhead spot left vacant over there.
Smallwood would have to start or take over 3rd down role from Sproles.
Bottom line is whatever process Roseman, Douglas & Co. use, they need to make the correct choices and the coaches need to develop the talent effectively.
The Eagles have been wrong far too many times over the last 8 years and have been mired in mediocrity. We need much higher levels of competence and expertise. The excuses need to end, again they should be on the clock and Lurie needs to make it clear they are gone unless they succeed within the next 2-3 years. Screw the “family atmosphere” – we need accountability and there should be major urgency to get the job done.
It is agonizing to watch other teams like the Pats who just won a SB trophy run circles around the league this off-season so far as they stock up their roster for another run. God, it would be great to have a team like that – that never are satisfied, that never give up, that never stop achieving, pushing, innovating and never accepting second best. The true gold standard. And I freaking hate the Pats, it kills me to write the above, but the truth hurts.
Thou shall not cheat nor covet, and you are coveting a cheater.
How many teams like the Pats exist? For the Pats (and other top teams) it all starts with the QB.
Remember how the Eagles was a good team when we had McNabb? The recent turmoil began when we lost the franchise QB.
I think the closest thing to the Pats are the Spurs, and even they’re a step down.
I put the Spurs a step higher than the Pats, but teams like the Spurs or Pats are once in a life time teams.
Yes the aim should be to be like them, but its much more likely we will resemble the 2001 to 2008 Eagles (with a SB instead)
Peak Andy Eagles was a good time. I am of the school that you get a team that goes deep into the playoffs, you are successful. You are giving yourself a shot. That’s how the Spurs do it.
The Giants proved that once you are in the tournament, anything can happen.
First goal is to win the division; if you can do that, you got a chance. One of these times we’re going to get one.
True. Although I do wonder if Eli has something in his DNA that some others don’t. Food for thought 🙂
My internal monologue:
Don’t make an extra chromosome joke
Don’t do it
Don’t
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Oh no you didn’t…
That is part of it, but it also is the owner, HC/GM, his coaching staff and the players they acquire/draft. It is NOT accidental or coincidental. It is all included in their strategic organizational plan.
That Pats should be the model Lurie and Roseman are trying to emulate at least IMO. That should be what they want the Eagles to be and leave no stone unturned until it is reality.
If they do everything they can and still fail, that is ok because it is very difficult. However, if they do not want to be great, then I wish Lurie would sell and all of them get out of the way so we do not waste more time. I want a SB before I die, been waiting for 44 years so far and am tired of falling short every year and the excuses used to sweep it away.
But the Pats also needed a ton of luck. In 2001, they wasnt this golden team. They need an injury to Bledsoe and back then Belichick might have been fired if it hasnt been for Brady
真是时光荏苒！
We the Eagles have a draft in the mold of this, I would be very happy.
http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2017/03/eagles_7-round_mock_draft_new_face_atop_first-roun.html#incart_river_mobile_index
I won’t. Really dislike Humphrey at 14.
That mock looks to be either completely need focused or the luckiest BPA ever. If we draft CB, WR, CB, RB, DE, CB, WR, DT I will be very suspicious that we passed over talented players to fill needs.
“at any costs” — I don’t care if they sign a deal with the devil. I don’t care if they sign 53 TO type players at each position. WIN A FREAKING SUPERBOWL FOR $%^$@ SAKE! I don’t care if they go into ruins for the next 100 years after winning it. Just win 1. “We want to build a team that contends every year”…awwww STFU already. How about you build a team to win the SB? There, I said it…..
I don’t feel that way.
Nah, me either. I want sustainable success that leads to a championship. It’s all about the bling :)….
So you’d rather be the Jets huh?
is there a difference between the two? Except the years with Rex Ryan — hate him.
For me, not winning a Superbowl doesn’t make football less enjoyable than becoming the 90’s Cowboys. I can’t watch football if I can’t root for my team
Not to load too much freight onto a quick internet comment, but this attitude is, IMO, a big part of what’s wrong with this country today. Winning has become everything; ethics, rules, laws, basic human decency, etc., be damned. From Wall Street to our sports venues to politics, it holds true. And this attitude is not criticized – it’s extolled! “Just win, baby!”
When my son became obsessed with Cars (the movie) years ago, I really came to appreciate the message it carried, and realized how little the real world heeded it. If we cared more about being a good person than about being “a winner,” we’d have a much better world. If being an ethical, moral person was put in more esteem than being rich or famous, we’d have a much better world.
Little decisions add up to make an overwhelming whole. We need to be cognizant of our contributions, no matter how small, to the problems we face.
One thousand times yes.
Thank you. Our country is rich enough to support every one of its citizens in comfort, but we prefer to cheer on the “winners” who hoard the resources of small cities in their bank accounts.
Funnily enough, as I note in response to eagleyankfan, I’m a voluntaryist/libertarian (definitely small “l”) type, who believes in non-aggression; I’m pretty disinclined to support a welfare state (at least as an end unto itself). But I also believe that a truly free and voluntary market probably requires cultural values that are more closely aligned to socialism than Objectivism. I think that if we didn’t have a ton (historically and present day) of regressive redistribution by, or sanctioned by, the state, the issue you highlight would generally take care of itself. But now I’m taking this topic too far afield from the issue TL raised, so I’ll creep back into my cave.
I doubt too many of us could really stomach taking our personal philosophies to the limit. Human beings are not consistent creatures! Politics is truly “the art of the possible.”
oh go give a trophy to every participant because they tried…
LOL. If you knew me, you’d know how far off the mark your response is. Just totally irrelevant to what I wrote and what I believe on this issue.
🙂
“If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.” ― J.R.R. Tolkien
Who let Steinbrenner in here?
you get it :). Thanks….
I am not sure how hyperbolic to read this comment. If the team had the opportunity to make a move that would win them the SB next year, but would also insure that you never live to see another win, would you support the move?
Say, the 20 best players in the league want to play together, set all the records and then walk away healthy. We distribute the cap hit over the next 50 years and give up our top three draft picks through 2100. Are you in?
I know I am not.
I was just playing. I would like to see a SB championship before I die though….
Well… how old are you? 🙂
Old enough to know — second place is 1st place for losers :).
A couple late thoughts on the Mixon incident: I’ve never hit a girl, but I have been hit by them a few times. I can’t really understand the mindset of unloading a full shot at a defenseless target like that. It’s only one step up from drop-kicking a baby.
Food for thought: If it had been a black girl instead of a nice-looking blond, would the reactions be the same?
Also, consider “The Myth of the Sanctity of the Human Body.” A lot of people, especially white women, have been raised to think that because men aren’t legally/socially allowed to touch them without their permission, that people in fact won’t touch them without their permission. It becomes a fixed value or concept in their minds which guides them to do incredibly stupid things like insult/stand up to a drunk man 10X as strong as them. It allows them to go to frat parties, drink excessively and accept drinks (sometimes drugs) from strangers. The result is they get raped or beaten at a high rate.
I witnessed this myself most lately a couple times when women behind me flicked me off or cussed me out while driving or being stopped in traffic. Once while a bunch of us were trapped in line in a bank drive-through. It’s amazing, because no 250 lb bodybuilder has ever shouted at me in similar situations, but hot little women (both happened to be good-looking) will.
As a father, I’m going to make sure my daughter doesn’t have this flawed idea of the world that would cause her to put herself in very risky situations.
food for thought – you already know the answer
Cho-
You bring up a good point; a lot of it comes down to presuppositions and a lack of respect in people for people. It starts at home, and continues until someone learns how to act in public.
I think Robert E Howard said that barbarians are more respectful than civilized men, because they never forget the threat of violence lurks close beneath every interaction.
You know, that really would change our civilization and thin out the herd a bit
Would really limit open, honest discussion that moves society forward.
Max Stirner was a contemporary of Marx, who argued for an anarchism based upon this very observation. There was a sci-fi book loosely based on it, where everyone had the psychic ability to kill – it led to a very formal, polite society.
Wow, very cool thought experiment. I’ve read a lot of SF in my day.
Going to play devils advocate here because I do that.
1. We don’t know if she would have stopped attacking him if he walked away.
2. How do you know that she isn’t a threat? Assumptions work both ways. Threats can easily escalate and the fact that people are dismissing her as a threat aren’t exactly right either. Humans can hurt and kill other humans if they really wanted to.
3. But there’s bystanders right? How many people stepped in to deescalate that situation? None. How many people would have stepped in if it got even uglier? Your guess is as good as mine. Best case scenario is if the employees at the pizza place called the cops and someone would have jumped in to break the argument up. However, only one of these things happened. The cops were called.
4. I know this isn’t politically correct but if she was black, I’m inclined to say less people would be on her side. She’s a ratchet, ghetto hood rat, and etc. All sort of excuses would be made to make her look bad. It’s very unfortunate that people would think that way.
Keep your damn hands to yourselves unless you’re prepared for the consequences.
Damn, you went there! 🙂
1. But didn’t he actually follow her into the restaurant?
2. .01% chance she has a gun or knife and could damage him, 100% chance a healthy man can kill a woman with his bare hands.
3. It happened too fast to be deescalated. Would someone have jumped him if he started strangling her? Who the heck knows these days.
4. Yeah, I agree 100%. Blond white girl is the pinnacle of untouchable, browns are disposable.
But yes, keep your damn hands to yourself. And keep your mouth shut. If Mixon had called my gay friend a fag, I’d look the other way and wait until he left. Not even close to worth it.
1. Yes he did but she motioned him to come to her as he walked in.
2. She could have swung a chair at him when he walks away. She felt brave enough to swing at him so you can’t really rule out the possibility. 10000% true especially for a men of Mixon’s size and strength. The same thing could be applied for Mixon’s use of force.
3. Both parties were with friends if I recall correctly. None of them bothered to tell either one of them to just let it go and walk away.
All of my points are moot since the fight ended once it started. I guess my point is just don’t underestimate what strangers can do?
Yeah, that’s always a good policy.
Case in point: In college, I was playing basketball with these two black dudes, each of whom outweighed me by at least 30 lbs. As was my usual, I was trashtalking and all. Well, at one point one of them stops, asks me if I have a problem, and in the middle of that pops me in the mouth! Two seconds later, his friend sneaks up behind me and clocks me in the back of the head. This opened up a gash that bled like crazy. I don’t remember being dizzy or it hurting, but I was more shocked and offended than anything. I started yelling at them and saying I was going to call the cops.
Actually I considered them casual friends, which is why I was so surprised that happened. Everyone in our regular group, about 10-20 ppl who played 5x a week or so, regularly and joyfully talked trash to each other. But these guys were essentially townies and thought I was disrespecting them.
TBH I got off pretty easily to just have a split lip and a few stitches.
Yup. I learned that lesson pretty early in my teen years, I was walking home with my cousin after a pickup baseball game at the park. We brought a water cooler with some drinks since it was summer and had to carry that home with us. Some guys thought it would be cool to jump us for some bottles of water that we didn’t need anymore. Dudes gave my cousin a black eye and I ended up with a few bruises. We ended up calling the cops after but they never found them. All of that for 3 bottles of water.
Yeah – counter intuitively, big guys actually have more to fear when it comes to the other side using weapons. David generally doesn’t taunt Goliath without an ace up his sleeve.
My only objection is to 2. Who knows the probability, but it’s one of those “the consequences are so high that even a one in a million chance is something to be cognizant of” things. More people have guns than you think. And even more people are carrying things (knives, keys, mace can, taser) that can kill or seriously maim you. You can’t assume that anyone is harmless – I’ve seen a 10 year-old who intentionally killed his mother.
That said, all of that concern pretty much falls away in this instance because he could have ended the confrontation on his terms many times instead of escalating it.
Her criminal records (yes she has one) said she had intent of selling drugs. How many drug dealers don’t carry anything to protect their selves?
Yup, I would say both parties had a chance to walk away but two egos collided and the worst happened.
I’d have stood up for my friend. Because you know, humanity.
This isn’t devil’s advocate, it’s just “I’m bored on a forum”. She f-ing slapped him, hardly an “attack”. And it was in response to him walking up and being verbally provocative. If he didn’t want a confrontation, he should have walked up to the counter and ordered a latte. She made a minor mistake and paid significant consequences. Now he’s paying some consequences as well.
K.
Respect. Our society needs more of it… in very many places.
I believe an average sports journalist’s mind would implode at the sight of how much respect is being shown on an Eagles blog.
“As a father, I’m going to make sure my daughter doesn’t have this flawed idea of the world that would cause her to put herself in very risky situations.”
She’s lucky to have a Dad like you.
Nice looking? Also, one man’s “myth” is another’s “respect for all other bodies”. No one should be afraid to speak their mind due to physical intimidation, but that’s true for women in particular. They get the short end of the stick often enough. As a father, I’m sure we are both well aware of that.
“Should” is a funny word, and says very little about reality.
It says a lot about what we aspire to be, though. 😉
No way that we should in any way condone Mixon’s actions because “that’s just reality”. Everyone has a right to expect not to be physically assaulted, and in no way is it their fault if someone violates that right. Punish the criminal, not the victim.
I think I get what you are trying to say, and yes it’s important to learn not to place ourselves at unnecessary risk (though I’m sure we all do on occasion). But the flip side is that you are getting close to victim shaming when you imply that the girl is at fault. Might she have been smarter and avoided this? Yes. Does that have anything to do with a discussion of Mixon’s crime? No.
I don’t think we much disagree, but in this world I, at 150 lbs., am not going to mouth off to some thuggish dude full of testosterone and itching to bust some heads. I’m going to let the police do their job if necessary and let discretion be the better part of valor. If I’m a girl who couldn’t possibly defend herself physically, even more so.
Second, dude. She initiated the physical contact. She is an idiot.
I just showed that video to a friend of mine yesterday who’d never seen it. Not knowing anything at all about the incident, the people, or the outcome (in terms of her injury), he said “WTF, she hit him first!”
I agree we mostly agree, but the gulf on difference between a girl hit and breaking facial bones is huge. I think the post that said it best mentioned “how many times does an 8-year old hit me before it’s ok for me to hit back, *as hard as I can*”.
What he did was never okay. What she did was never smart. That’s my position 🙂
And while I would commend you for taking the high road and walking away, I would never condemn you for standing up to a bully.
I just finished the Jeffrey targets video that was linked yesterday.
1. He is the best receiver in PHI since TO.
2. No wonder he wanted out of CHI – he had more PBUs than McKelvin last year. Those QBs are so bad, particularly Hoyer.
3. I think the injury concerns are real – he takes a lot of awkward or painful looking shots. He just doesn’t seem to have that slipperiness that some guys do.
ICYMI – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay1aAMLVGkg&feature=player_embedded
Agreed on points 1, 2, and 3. I’m indifferent on 4. I wasn’t the biggest fan of the Jeffrey signing (or being a target for us in the off season) initially, but my mind is slowly changing. My mind was made up that trading for Cooks was worth it, even if we had to surrender the #14 pick with a small mid-round return compensation.
For Wentz, he looks like the perfect fit. He’s a big target, can track balls which may be off the mark a little, and when he’s covered he’s open. That fits perfectly with the mentality that Wentz has- he’s not afraid to throw into coverage (looking at you, Mr. Bradford). Wentz will go for it, and Jeffrey can deliver.
The Smith signing will be the wild-card; if he can produce even 50-60 catches this year, he will be a success. Add in the different role for Ags and DGB, and all of a sudden our WR corpse has potential to come to life again.
Jeffrey is the real deal. It will be interesting to see if Wentz feels obligated to force him the ball or if they get him his targets in the flow of the offense.
Probably a bit of both- there will be designed plays for everyone, but when things break down or if Wentz has the ability to do what he wants– Jeffrey is going to be a happy (and rich) man.
If he doesn’t get his target in the flow of the offense, it will be a good sign – because that means the other WR are stepping up.
I think Smith can get fewer catches, so long as the yards per reception stay fairly high. He can bring value as a decoy as much as a playmaker (obviously, he needs to make plays to be an effective decoy). Curious to see how they use him.
1: Marlon Humphrey CB Bama
2. Caleb Brantley DT Florida
3. Taywan Taylor WR WKU
4 Daeshon Hall DE TAMU
4 Wayne Gallman RB Clemson
5 Corn Elder CB Miami
6 Xavier Woods S LA Tech
7 Ifaedi Odenigbo DE Northwestern
UDFAs
Harvey Langi LB BYU
Brandon Bell LB PSU
Brady Gustafson QB Montana
Kyle Kalis G Michigan
Andreas Knappe T UCONN
Anthony Wales RB WKU
Bug Williams WR UNC
Wiliam Likely CB Maryland
Scott Ordnoff TE PItt
With a name like Gustafson, it has to be good!
We just need somebody who beat Wentz head to head to talk shit to him everyday.
“You are only a man”
A mock draft without 4 trade downs and 7 mid round picks? Blasphemy. I think this would be a good draft but I would prefer to have a second CB that could play outside.
Ehhh I think Elder could play outside for Schwartz (Likely is my nickel he’s 5’7)
I wouldn’t feel too comfortable with that but Elder is physical enough to play outside. Have you watched tape on Hall yet? If so what’s your opinion on him?
Good frame, solid flashes. New to the position and you wish he would have been more productive opposite Myles but he’ll win with effort for now and theres enough intriguing to project potential starter. Cooked some dudes in Mobile. I see some Trey Flowers.
I thought about fiating a 5th rounder but that’s no fun. Should have given myself an extra second rounder from trading from 14 to 15 though.
Elder could earn an outside spot, esp on this roster. At least he pushes Mills.
Hey I see a Dane on that UDFA list!
Knappes my dude. I’d much rather have him as a UDFA than any of these trash T’s outside the top 5.
I feel that the Eagles would like a late round QB this year ideally. There is no QB3 on the roster, and developing a young cheap backup who they can trust to spell Wentz would be very valuable in 2 years time when Foles contract will be up and they could be extending Wentz.
Having said that i cannot find a late QB i like even as a project. Kaaya’s deer in headlights reactions to pressure is unlikely to improve. Jarod Evans, CJ Beathard and Kelly all have flaws i am not sure will improve significantly. Dobbs is probably the highest upside but that is most of what he is.
Would be interested if anyone has a late round QB they like and why, since i would like to find a target to watch late.
Dobbs is the guy I like if they spend a pick.
I agree that they need a cheap guy ready to go in two years. But for this year I’d rather have the pick for a position player, also if you draft a guy it means you have to roster him for two years. I like Gustafson I think there’s enough there to be a backup long term but he’s not a big enough profile that you won’t easily get him through waivers this year. PS him and let him be in the room, then you’ll know for the 2018 draft whether you really need to draft one.
Also my plan saves a year of cost control.
Dobbs; yuck. 400 rush attempts over the last 3 years vs. 537 completed passes. No thank you on that type of running junk.
I like the depth of your picks- potential outside starter between Elder and Humphrey (Mills is the other) and safety depth. Beefing up the DE and DL position will be needed, as well as a WR to groom (Taylor fits the mold).
What is it about Gallman that you like? And I’m assuming Odenigbo is your developmental/stash DE with the potential to work into rotation as he develops.
Gallman is kind of what people want Smallwood to be. He’s got some shake, some power, can catch and block at a good clip. Better football player than prospect. He’s the perfect 1b or RB2 moving forward because he can compliment anybody.
Odenigbo is a really interesting case. He was a 4 star recruit who picked Northwestern, because his parents are the stereotypical Nigerians. Only started playing football as a sophomore in HS. Gained 50lbs over his time at Northwestern. Was only ever a pass rushing specialist even after finally getting to full grown man size as a senior. Didn’t really produce much and then tied for the Big10 lead in sacks this year. Solid motor and HWS profile, real bright kid. He’ll compete with Means and McCallister for DE5 this year. He was on the Setting the Edge podcast a few weeks ago, really impressive young man.
I am so uncultured. Beyond skin color and an accent, I cannot think of a single trait to apply to a stereotypical Nigerian.
Very academic focused. Someone on twitter went through the guys over the last decade and “may be too smart and doesn’t like football enough” keeps coming up for Nigerians. If you listen to the podcast he does a hilarious impression of his parents wanting him to be a doctor.
Thanks.
Just for you
http://www.nationalstereotype.com/nigerian-stereotypes/
Well. At least among a subculture there, doing internet scams is kind of a thing.
Wait, the fake Nigerian princes are actually in Nigeria? How…uninspired.
Obviously I don’t know much about his back story, but one thing I’ve noticed with 1st generation immigrant children is that they tend to lack that certain “aggressive” gene or personality. Not that they are bad people, or can’t play the sport- but the family focus seems to be more about integrating into the culture and not causing a ruckus than anything else.
Ags is a perfect example of this picture – great family, determined- highly educated and motivated. But there is a certain quality, an “it” factor that from my observations are lacking initially. They tend to turn out to be great people, and often times have a good career; but they rarely hit the GREAT plateau.
Anyways, that’s my non-informed and uneducated opinion.
A thousand upvotes for Knappe.
You have all of my upvotes.
So is Humphrey officially the guy who can down Odell and shut up Giants fans? We need that; BADLY.
No. In the future? Maybe.
We need that guy ASAP. I’m sick and tired of those blue bums celebrating anything.
I’m not sure anyone can shut down Odell. But he can certainly shut down a #2 and let the safeties focus on helping with OBJ.
That’s not acceptable answer at all. I need that fan base humbled!
I dont believe so. D3FB likes him as do a few others. He scares the crap out of my at 14.
You don’t want a 20 year old 4.41 Sheldon?
Why does society seem to think that the NFL/Franchises need to correct the mess ups of the US legal system? You want the NFL to change who enters the league? This is a players union issue, i.e. a person with a DUI has a minimal shot at placement in a trades union.
Mixon was a football star from Oklahoma, what do you think was going to happen legally? Preferential treatment of “stars” is nothing new in any industry.
Fun to watch Hicks Mic’d up
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/videos/videos/Exclusive-Jordan-Hicks-Micd-Up/88d4e61a-1eac-4437-a959-ae477695c64a
One down, 12 to go:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000794183/article/report-reuben-foster-off-draft-board-of-team-with-top15-pick
“And he’s not immature at all when it comes to competitive character”
When your own coach can’t defend your character outside of football..
Glad we’re not even in that market.
Meh, drug use, physical abuse – those are more important than film. But what Foster has done on the field speaks for itself. I don’t think he makes it to 14.
I get that he’s one of your draft crushes but you’re going to have to look past that.
Getting thrown out of the combine is unheard of. Pulling the “do you know who I am” card is really immature and reeks of ego. Could he learn from that and grow? Yea but most reports are implying he hasn’t yet.
You’re not investing in just a football player but also in the person who has to come to work for you every season.
Do you have any reason to question that he will? Because I’m one of the first guys on board with “team first” players. Have you seen anything that indicates otherwise for Foster? Serious question. He’s not a draft crush, he’s a balls out stud player.
http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2017/03/more_info_emerges_about_reuben.html
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2017/03/nfl_scouts_reportedly_are_conc.html
Saban: “I think it’s important that he has people around him who will provide him good direction, have good experience and the ability to anticipate what’s happening, so you don’t get these emotional responses to things that are insignificant.”
His own coach has called him immature in between the lines. Then there’s the combine incident where he’s quite possibly the only person to have been thrown out of the combine.
Immaturity is a legitimate concern for teams especially if they don’t have said support group for players (which we do). Teams and said support group can only control players so much off the field. While Foster hasn’t done anything to warrant that concern, teams also don’t want that weight on their shoulder if that’s the impression that they got from him during interviews.
Thank you for that info. I tend to agree with Mayock, but obviously he is far from a perfect pick (unlike Jamal Adams, who Mayock somehow has behind Peppers). Of course, with no character or injury concerns there is no way he slips to 14, so it’s a bit of a catch-22. The team needs CB and edge, but guys like Foster or Davis would undoubtedly make Sundays more fun.
I’m not disagreeing with you on that. If Foster has smooth sailing for the rest of his career then he’s going to be a top 5 LB someday. It’s just that there are red flags that bother people. He’s not the surefire top 10 lock that he was a few months ago once teams started to dig deep. It’s a shame since he seems like a good guy.
I don’t like him- lots do but he makes me very uneasy. If I’m spending a pick that high on a person, I want to be sure that they are solid; not just as an athlete either. Too much risk for my blood.
Just curious, because I haven’t heard of real questions before the combine. What makes you uneasy?
Undersized. Already suffered an concussion with his violent play style. Questionable decision making off the field.
Yeah, the injuries are a concern. Made me shy away from Mosley, who turned out fine. And Foster has had a much better career than Mosley.
Are we really knocking guys for their violent playstyle now? Because I like that about him. As far as undersized, 7 pounds less than Hicks coming out. He’s going to be a beast, so it’s really only injuries and character concerns at this point that should knock him down.
Violent play styles are being phased out.
Foster was supposedly 240 pounds, if he could get back to that then I would have no problem with his weight. Short, light, and a head hunting play style doesn’t make for a long career. That’s not good for the team.
Yeah, but you have to admit that you’d rather have a head hunter on your team than on the other team. Wolverine did some head hunting, Philly was ok with him.
When I watch him play, I don’t see a thinker or someone with a high football IQ. He’s kind of like Kiko- see ball, get ball. Gets confused easily when things aren’t in front of him, doesn’t seem to be particularly good in coverage or even utilized in that manner on a consistent basis.
With the way that the NFL is trending (heard a stat that teams are running nickel defense roughly 65-70% of the time now- I’m not sure where he would fit. I don’t see him as a MLB in this scheme, and I think that Schwartz would love to move Hicks to WIL so that he’s free to use his skills to roam freely. Foster isn’t a fit on the strong side of the formation, and we already have Bradham in that spot.
My guess is that if anything, they look to replace the MIKE position and move Hicks to the weak side of the formation so that he doesn’t have the abuse of linemen firing directly at him on a consistent basis. Think of what Marinelli did with Lee in Dallas- moved him out of the line of fire a bit so that he can use his athletic ability all over the field. Ultimately, Hicks should follow that mold if we can find an adequate replacement.
Foster has been compared to Luke from Carolina. That’s absurd. That guy is head and shoulders above him in the IQ and football acumen department- plus he has the athletic ability to recover when he does make a mistake. Sabans scheme makes up for his players deficiencies (as all should) but they did a great job of minimizing his risks while maximizing his potential- the NFL game is so much more complex, and I don’t know if he has the ability or capability to handle the mental rigors of the game.
Foster can play the game physically, but so much of it is between the ears. If we are drafting someone at 14, I want them to be as close to the complete package as possible. His deficiencies between the ears is a huge red flag for me, and in my opinion not worth the risk. He’s a young guy, yes- but imagine the stress of a first round pick in Philadelphia? Especially one that isn’t starting or making an impact early in his career, whom doesn’t have a specific fit or position in this scheme.
For me, he’s not worth it. I see him more as a Rolando McClain than I do as a Donta Hightower type.
Good stuff. A lot of people worry about base defense, but Nickel is really the base D for most teams. Given how much Kendricks played last year, I don’t see Hicks moving to Will in this D. I think Foster and Hicks could be the LB in Nickel, but if you are correct and he can’t handle the mental side of the game, then he drops big time in value.
Ultimately I think they’d love to move Bradham away from Nickel if they can find an adequate replacement (more athletic) and have more speed on the field. Kendricks could have been that guy, but he seems to have a hard time grasping new systems initially. Maybe they keep him this year, give him more time to figure it out and see what happens; wouldn’t be the worst idea in the world.
As for your point about Hicks moving to WIL– I don’t either, unless they can find a suitable replacement who can “thump” a little more. We had a hard time plugging up gaps last year and filling in behind the line- its so important in this scheme to have those lanes filled. We need to get tougher up the middle and currently we don’t have those assets.
At the end of the day, I’m sure we’d all rather have Hicks taking on parallel linemen (pulling) and TE’s rather than linemen firing directly towards him; given his injury history and his play making ability, open space should in theory be his friend.
Not if it was the Eagles who took him off their draft board…
…or the Team picking at #15.
The problem with reports like this is it could be smoke.
I’m sorry to be the bearer of the bad news, but there won’t be any Mixonzzz, Cookzzz or Fosterzzz drafted by the Eagles.
Why?! Because Luriezzz says so.
Are you on post root-canal pain meds or did you actually hear this somewhere?
Lol. It’s actually the former. No joke…
Rest up. Heal up.
Yearly friendly reminder that Mike Mayock is a hack and you shouldn’t listen to him.
I beg to differ.
Me too.
Yeah me three
Me Five
Meesa Jar Jar Binks.
alright well here we go! check out my top level comments this gun b good
Your friendly reminder that Sean Scott is a hack and you shouldn’t listen to him.
I kid, but back off Mayock. He is 100000000000x better than Kiper and McShay.
TL, loved your piece today, thank you. A couple things came to mind. The base distinction between Mr. Clean and the turd cannot be argued without context. U.S. culture has been impacted severely by our political policies. Money has yielded sycophants in both parties which march to the orders of their deep-pocketed benefactors. SCOTUS, POTUS and Congress are all in the pockets of the billionaires. The dysfunction this reality has yielded can be seen in many quarters, and it is clearly displayed in the NFL. The owners, it is apparent, care little about the widespread institutional impotence that negatively impacts many families across the country. Young people are given support in the home, or are largely on their own. Character concerns at this time of the season are all about investment risk, and nobody with a microphone utters a negative word about the laboratory that breeds sociopathy. I believe we will see the number of character ?’s coming out of our esteemed universities continue to rise as long our politics is in the hands of the 1%.
When Pete Rozelle and Ed Sabol seized on the mythical allure of a simple game to sell it to the masses and elevate it to staggering heights, the NFL had bullies, thugs, cheats, liars, rapists and the like, but they were protected by the same bottom line that is the paramount issue of the NFL and increasingly our society.
https://twitter.com/CourtneyFallon_/status/844289923414802432
https://twitter.com/AdamStites_/status/844294470585630720
That sucks for him. He had to get a bit stronger and most of his game was being able to press/jam WRs.
“Despite the fact that [Josh Freeman]’s made 16 starts, I think he’s the safest pick … His skill set translates easily to the NFL.”
-Mike Mayock
He had a solid year when he was named starter.
“If I’m telling you he’s a top-10 pick, I’m willing to put my butt on the line and say he’s a top-one pick,” Mayock said. “I mean one’s part of 10. Bottom line to me, if I’m telling you a kid’s a top-10 pick, I believe in Blaine Gabbert.”
-Mike Mayock
Gabbert was a top 10 pick though?
He put his butt on the line that Gabbert is a top one pick. In my book he owes someone his butt.
He isnt ssying that HE wud pick the guy .. hes just making the call that he WILL get picked high
Nah, he straight up gushes over so many prospects. He gushed over Gabbert, and he gushed over Trent Richardson. He gushed over Manziel, he gushed over Jimmy Clausen. He doesn’t know what he’s doing any more than half the draft-interested people in this comment section.
Yeah. Just glad to defend him. Best athlete to ever come out of my school. … but one day he’ll have a ton of material for a show..trying to define how some of these guys never made it .. that’ll be good tv
Sounds like he has The Browns listening
I don’t think you’re reading this right. He’s a top 1 pick in Mayock’s definition, that’s top 10. Gabbert was picked 10th.
“I do think [Jimmy Clausen] has the physical skill-set to be a top 10 pick the draft,” he told Cleveland.com. “I think he’s going to go somewhere between 7 and 17 and I think he’s got the ability and makeup to be a good starting quarterback in the NFL.”
-Mike Mayock
“The kind of projection I want to make with Manziel is Steve Young,” Mayock says, referencing the Hall of Fame San Francisco 49ers quarterback.
-Mike Mayock
“[Trent] Richardson might be the best non-quarterback in the draft. He won’t make it past 6. He’s as close as I’ve seen to Adrian Peterson. He’s a three-down guy. He pass-protects. He’s a bear with the ball in his hands and he’s an adequate pass-catcher.”
– Mike Mayock
To be fair, he didn’t make it past 6 and he is equally valuable on all three downs.
““This year to me, Rueben Randle has some questions; Alshon Jeffrey has some questions; Brian Quick from Appalachian State,” he said.” [Justin Blackmon does not have questions]
-Mike Mayock
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000346685/article/mike-mayocks-position-rankings-for-2014-nfl-draft
Mayock has Manziel above
2. Blake Bortles, Central Florida
3. Derek Carr, Fresno State
4. Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois
T-5. Zach Mettenberger, LSU
T-5. Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville
lol wut
Good effort, mate…
Mayock is much more reliable on defense.
“Aaron Curry might be the safest pick in the draft”
-Mike Mayock, sober (?)
Oh, you want the person that is correct about each draft pick. The love child of Santa and the touch fairy. Got ya.
He also picked Sanchez as the safest pick in that same draft, ranking him over Stafford.
You strike me as the kind of guy Ozzie Newsome bitchslaps for breakfast.
Simply saying be suspect of soothsayers slingin snake oil.
We should obviously always be skeptical of everyone in this realm. Always. But that’s different from hatin’
What do I need to put under my pillow to get the touch fairy to visit me?
A PSU scholarship from 1990
I kid I kid
Ask German Eagle.
Haha! The tooth fairy took all my meds away… 🙁
Switch to fransischkaner (sp?)
Wish I had some Franziskaner at home right now. But my key food around the corner has stopped selling it – for whatever reason. What a liberty!!!
One of my favorites. They stopped putting it on tap in most of the US now too – at least the heffe. Travesty I tell you.
I moved to the States in 2014 but never seen Franziskaner on tap anywhere.
I always assumed you were still over there.
It used to be on tap in several places (at least in Boston and Philly) but a few years back they drastically changed some business arrangement and it’s nowhere now. SUCKS
Yes, that sucks.
It must be by Disqus name but I have left my home land back in 2007 before moving to London, UK for 6 years and arriving in the US 6+ years later…
Oh my. So there IS such thing as the Touch Fairy. I thought my dad made that up!
I blame beer. And Russia. And poor sleep. I made a typo.
Didn’t you mean to say “sheep” rather than “sleep”?
Okay, so in summary, who is the prognosticator of prospects that you recommend over the snake oil salesman?
I believe it was you who yesterday called it a crap shoot. And those words were truth.
It wasn’t me, but I don’t disagree with the sentiment.
Still, Mayock’s opinions are far more informed than my own, as are many of the comments here. That is why I read both, without expectations of perfection.
It seems like for every endorsement an anylist gets there is someone else ready to denounce him. I’d imagine a great deal of it is confirmation bias.
great effort and fun to read. Let me ask this — are there GM’s out there with the same success rate as MM? Maybe more specific, the last few years – who’s been evaluating(whatever that means) the players better – Eagles draft choices vs. MM predictions? (I’m not really asking, just more saying — it’s not easy what they do)
Lesson of the day: Mayock’s hindsight sucks so he’s a hack.
Hindsight is a bitch.
You guys just like him because he has a Philly accent.
And you seem to just hate him to boost your ego.
I don’t see how this affects my ego at all, sharing my opinions about a crappy analyst on a niche Eagles site.
Ok big guy, err…
One thing we all agree on is that you’ve nailed the task of communicating your opinion of Mayock. Out of the park.
Of the draftniks/”gurus”, who DO you like?
D3FB
That Matt Tobin loving hack?I heard that guy was just ok.Brett Hundley is a first round QB!
:'(
he did look pretty good against us in the preseason. I was watching like, D3FB was right! After a couple years backing up Aaron Rodgers, I’d be very disappointed if he doesn’t get his shot somewhere
To be fair, though, we have to ask how much worse would the Eagles be if they had taken him in the first? 🙂
Chip would probably still be here so most likely worse.
Shots fired!
It can still happen in a trade!!
Have you asked him his view of Mayock?
I like Mayock. I like DJ. McShay is solid.
People miss. Shit, teams with 20 full time scouts with nearly unlimited access miss all the time as well.
Mayock can give you 300 words on 500 different guys. He puts the time in, he knows technique and scheme.
It’s football. The stakes just aren’t high enough for me too get too worked up beyond an eyeroll and wanker gesture. Even for ESP.
Nah that’s a bonus. He knows what he’s talking about most of the time.
If Mayock is any better than a finger in the wind, then where are the super sick insights about players he called out before anyone else, that might have slipped against his good advice, etc? No, he simply mentions good things about consensus top prospects, most of the time going way too far with his praise, and for some reason people think he’s any better than the other bozos who do this.
He releases position rankings deep into the process after consensus has already been reached, and releases a mock draft when everyone else has already done theirs, again benefiting from consensus.
I’m not factoring this into me calling him a hack, but I’m 99% certain that he’s seen the prospects getting called right before the draft announcement and quickly interjected their name as his real-time guess of the team currently picking. Will have to find video of that though
http://www.thehuddlereport.com/scoring/mockdrafts.shtml
I guess he sucks.
If you’re not first, you’re last…
Ha – poor “Jim Kempski”.
Crap I missed this gem – Mayock: Dorial Green-Beckham looks like ‘a young Randy Moss’
And? DGB has immense potential and he’s not wrong again (what a shocker!!).
What he say about Agholar . I dont even want to know
He said “looks” not “plays” like a young Randy Moss.
He’s equivalent to those losers that make an out 70% of their at bats.
Think about loser pass rushers, those celebrated phonies only get ~15 sacks on how many pass rushes???
Extension for Kiko. *chin scratch*
Yeah, it seems like we briefly had a good, unhealthy player come aboard our sinking ship and then get caught in the whirlpool as it descended to the sea floor.
and the fact that Jim Schwartz didnt like him.
Seems like Kendricks fits that mold currently.
Complete
Waste
Of
Money
You wasted at least 30 seconds of my life trying to figure out what acronym you were spelling out in this post.
Ozzy Newsome has spent 1st round picks on guys like Matt Elam, Mark Clayton, and Breshad Perriman. What a hack!
Jordan Hicks had similar question marks regarding his past. Look at him now.
I think, more so, you have to analyze the character of the player, not solely their actions/accusations.
Didnt he only have health concerns? I dont remember him ever being a character risk
http://www.espn.com/college-football/bowls12/story/_/id/8787252/texas-longhorns-suspend-case-mccoy-jordan-hicks-valero-alamo-bowl
Pro tip: if an NFL analyst once beat you out for point guard on your rec league basketball team at Haverford College, please don’t litter this site with non-stop bitching about his draft insights.
because basketball and football are related?
ask Jimmy Graham and Antonio Gates
I feel like there is a reference here I am missing.
Character is a funny thing in sports. It really doesn’t matter until it becomes a problem for management. Pro sports – like many other professions – is filled with ‘bad apples.’ One of the most revered and idolized athletes in sport history (Michael Jordan) also happens to be a kind of a not so classy guy. He was a jerk to many of his teammates, was a serial cheater, and wasn’t known to be real charitable. Brett Favre was a self-absorbed d**k. The list goes on. The reality is, management doesn’t care until it creates negative pr for the team. Am I to believe Ray Rice is the only guy who beat his wife? Didn’t Brett Myers do the same thing when he was a Philly? And he got rewarded with a nice contract extension.
The reality is, the sports world is full of hypocrites. Unless your’re just un-coachable malcontent, sports teams don’t care about your character unless it becomes a PR nightmare for the team.
I don’t think you can compare diva behavior with being a bad apple. Jordan, Favre, et al, probably wouldn’t have the same personality if they weren’t HOF players and coddled the way they were. Aaron Hernandez was probably going to jail regardless of whether he was a superstar TE for the Patriots or never made it to the NFL.
Favre’s drug habit would have landed him in prison back in Mississippi (or wherever the F he’s from) if he wasn’t tossing pigskin.
I would counter that if Favre were a marginal player, his many teammates that gave him their Vicodin would not have done that. Further, if Favre was not a football player who got injured, I doubt he would have became addicted in the first place.
Maybe, but the statistics for painkiller addiction imply that it’s more than professional athletes who get hooked.
Favre also admitted that he and his brother were binge drinkers, if not alcoholics. In retrospect, substance abuse of some kind seemed likely whether or not he was a football player.
And there are studies connecting “high risk” and compulsive behavior with people who seek leadership positions. Like quarterback.
So, Joe Flacco’s DNA made him ride a skateboard during the playoffs?
Don’t let him near a casino.
“Didn’t Brett Myers do the same thing when he was a Philly? And he got rewarded with a nice contract extension.”
I brewed Brett Myers every time he played after that incident.
Puleezzze, Tommy, just put a placeholder without an article to move us beyond character.
Don’t worry. TL is usually a bit slower this time of the year because he’s working on reviewing the prospects. In a couple of days, we’ll start getting the fruits of his labors, and the next month will demonstrate why he has such committed following. His stuff leading up to the draft/ just after the draft each year is still fun to go back and read now, years after the fact.
You let it bother you that much?
Free agents DE Greg Hardy, TE Kellen Winslow, CB Brandon Browner, and RB Ben Tate will all play in next month’s three-week Spring League. spring league could be interesting watching old guys mess around.
Not to keep bringing up the character argument, but was Hardy actually washed up, or does nobody want to take a flyer on him anymore?
It’s impossible to take a flyer on Hardy since he likes to fly banners high up in the sky..
Kellen Winslow is still banging around?
CRIMINAL NIGGER, YOU DUMBFUCK!!!!!!
LaGarrett Blount sucker punched a guy after losing a game in college. He now has 2 SB rings and no one gives a Sh!t