Busted
Posted: July 27th, 2017 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 71 Comments »It’s official. Marcus Smith will not surpass Reggie White as the greatest Eagles pass rusher of all time. There was tremendous debate as to whether that would happen, according to Smith, his agent and the voices in his head.
Eagles have released Marcus Smith, per source.
— Tim McManus (@Tim_McManus) July 26, 2017
White had 124 sacks as an Eagle, often fighting through double and sometimes even triple-teams. Smith came up a tad short, finishing his career with 4 sacks.
I think Smith has NFL talent, but he doesn’t have the right mentality or sense of urgency. Good defensive players play with anger or desperation. They attack the QB/RB/WR like a lion on the hunt. See prey. Attack prey. Kill prey.
Smith never showed that edge. He was quick off the ball. He was athletic. But he didn’t play with a chip on his shoulder. He wasn’t desperate to get to the QB. If you could take the fire that burned inside of Trent Cole and put that in Smith, you’d have one heck of a pass rusher. Instead you had a tease. Smith would flash some athleticism and then disappear for a quarter or two.
Smith played on STs last year and showed some signs of wanting to do the right thing. I just don’t think he understood how hard pro football is. You can’t just be talented. You can’t just try hard at times. You have to pour your soul into this game and play like your life depends on it. Smith was talented enough to be good in college without the right mentality. Things changed in the NFL and he didn’t adapt well.
Because he was a 1st round pick, the Eagles showed patience. The light came on for Nelson Agholor this spring. That didn’t happen for Smith. He saw the drafting of Derek Barnett as a sign his future was done here. Instead of embracing the challenge and having that bring out the best in him, Smith stayed away from Philly for a lot of the spring. The other 31 teams can’t be impressed with what they’ve seen from Smith, on or off the field.
*****
Before Barbre was officially released, the #Eagles traded him to Denver for a 2019 conditional draft pick. https://t.co/Yj82d0xZtL
— Philadelphia Eagles (@Eagles) July 26, 2017
The Eagles saved money. They got younger. And they possibly added a 7th round pick in 2019.
Frank Reich announced on Wednesday that Isaac Seumalo would be the starting LG. Barbre became expendable because of the other young OL they had on the roster.
LT – Jason Peters
LG – Isaac Seumalo
C – Jason Kelce
RG – Brandon Brooks
RT – Lane Johnson
- Halapoulivaati Vaitai – Played RT in 2016. Eagles feel he could play both OT spots.
- Matt Tobin – Has played LT, RT, LG and RG. Best as backup LT.
- Dillon Gordon – Played a lot of LG last summer, but showed LT potential.
- Stefen Wisniewski – Has started at OG and C in his career.
- Chance Warmack – Could backup at either OG spot.
That is a pretty good 1-10 set of O-linemen. And the Eagles still have Tyler Orlosky, Taylor Hart and other guys beyond that. Even without Barbre in the mix, there is good depth and competition. Not every player will pan out, but I don’t blame the Eagles for moving Barbre. They can now give his reps to a young player to develop for the present and the future.
Barbre would have been a luxury player. There may be a time this year the Eagles regret letting him go, but if one of the young guys develops and can help the team for the next few years, this will be a terrific move. It really boils down to needing one of the young OL to step up and play well.
*****
Love this move.
Eagles are bringing back LB Steven Daniels, the ex-Redskins guy they signed and cut in the spring.
— Les Bowen (@LesBowen) July 26, 2017
Jordan Hicks has a bit of a hand injury (but no cast on it per Tim McManus). His backup is Joe Walker, who is coming off a torn ACL and has never played in the NFL. It makes sense for the Eagles to bring back Daniels, a player I loved for the 2016 draft.
Daniels has had injury issues of his own. Let’s hope he’s healthy enough to play and show what he can do.
*****
There was practice on Wednesday.
The Eagles sat Carson Wentz, Nick Foles and some other vets so this was a really young group. Didn’t sound like anything too compelling happened. Still good notes from everyone.
_
We all know that sacks are not the only way to measure the effect of a pass rusher. Let’s not forget about Marcus Smith’s 11 hurries and 12 tackles over his three year career.
Let’s not forget the blanket coverage he had on Frank Gore.
I know he do not have the mentality, but Smith seems like a guy who should either be a 4-3 SAM or 3-4 ILB instead of a pass rusher
I think that’s his biggest problem- he doesn’t have the nasty streak required to get dirty and fight every play on defense. It was fine when he could run around people in college, and he is a smart individual- he just doesn’t have that “it” factor when it comes to finishing a play.
Maybe he can play tennis.
Those guys are pretty intense. Perhaps badminton?
I disagree. His biggest issue is between the ears. Positions where he would have a ton more diagnosing to do would be bad.
It was more in terms of skill set not brain.
He’s this decade’s Jon Harris. Just not strong enough. We have no idea if he had the “will” or mean streak or his mental approach was off. Sometimes it is all about whether the guy has the physical tools, and Smith just doesn’t.
Smith probably wouldn’t have made the team this year as a backup, but the team likely would have paid him the roster bonus this year to see if he could beat out long. Why anyone advised him to do what he did this summer is baffling. There’s almost no way he signs for a cent over a minimum try-out contract ever again. I hope his financial adviser is smarter than his agent.
His agent wasn’t getting any more money unless Smith signed a new contract. So from the greediness perspective, it might have made sense. In the long term, I hope Smith shows the agent his error by making him his ex-agent.
Don’t need an agent if you’re not in the NFL.
“The light came on for Nelson Agholor this spring.” A very dim light in a deep, dark cave! If it wouldn’t cost the Eagles more to cut him than it does to keep him, he’d be sharing a bus seat out of town with Smith right now!
Ags has shown quite a bit more than Smith ever did. If the kid learns how to catch, he can still be a good player.
The devil’s advocate in me says if MSII would have learned how to sack QBs he could still be a good player. Catching the Football is quite high on the requirements list for WRs.
I was absolutely shocked MSII managed to get 4 sacks in his time here. When the hell did that happen???
Three of the came when he was on the sideline and Foles backpedaled into him.
I was shocked, too. Felt lower. I give you the answer to your question (when did that happen?) via picture puzzle:
http://cdn3-www.hoopsvibe.com/assets/uploads/2013/06/DarkoMilicic.jpg
1.5 came on Tyron Smith too
H-how? My mind is blown. Man i like MSII even less now. Few things are more upsetting than wasted potential.
If MSII’s only issue was an inablity to complete sacks, he’d look more like Curry than the invisible man that he is. Curry creates pressure, but doesn’t get sacks. MSII doesn’t show up at all.
I still don’t feel it’s an appropriate analogy, though, as it’s not like Ags has done nothing. If he’s getting open enough to have balls glance off his hands so many times, he’s doing something right to even have the opportunity to fail.
yes, long before any glimmer of hope in Ags started to shimmer, last season in fact, we knew he would still be on the team this year because it would cost money to dump him and at the moment that cap space is worth more than the 53rd roster spot. He’s here because we’re stuck with him.
Whatever he’s doing now and does this season is going into consideration for keeping him next year, not this year.
Smith got to the station two steps too slow and missed the train. Nelson would have lined up on the wrong platform.
And dropped his ticket.
Do the big boys show up today??
Yes. I believe yesterday was the last day of rookie camp and today the whole team is involved.
According to Jimmy today is 10/10/10 which is just a light practice and its tomorrow it all begins
Celek, Ertz, Burton, with Billy Brown throwing his name in the hat for Na Brown and them signing the rugby guy as well. If you asked a couple weeks ago, I’d have said the team was happy with TE, but clearly they’re preparing for Celek to leave and aren’t happy with Burton’s progress.
I think they’re fine with Burton’s progress. They’re paying him damn near $3M this year since they tendered him at a 2nd round level. I do think they’re preparing for losing him though. Some team out there could throw way more money at him than the Eagles are willing to offer for a 2nd/3rd TE with STs ability.
This. They might lose both Celek and Burton after this season. It makes sense to secure at least one solid TE behind Ertz.
and it never hurts to have plenty of competition in camp and to get some early looks at guys they may need on backend down the road
They should be preparing for Celek to leave. He is 99% in his last season and Burton might leave in FA next year.
I think you’re jumping (big time) to conclusions on Burton.
Eh, he’s been on the game day roster basically since coming in to the league based on his special teams ability, yet rarely if ever gets offensive snaps. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a bad word about his athletic abilities or work ethic, yet… nothing. I think if they found a guy they’d like to keep around, He would be the current odd man out.
To each his own. I think you are jumping to conclusions about an UDRFA who hasn’t sniffed a pre-season game yet.
I certainly agree with you, but it’s strange to be looking for outside the box solutions at a position where the guy has no real hope of making the roster. We’re already going to carry 4 RB. You could short WR and CB, but not for a longshot prospect.
Fair enough. I don’t think it’s strange. They have had depth beyond 3 TEs in training camp literally every season.
And for the record, I like Billy and would be happy if he pans out.
Hopefully Roseman has learned the lesson of reaching for Smith. The hiring of Douglas and giving him authority over the board is evidence for the affirmative which is good news.
Talent evaluation, acquisition, development and retention are more important than ever in today’s NFL. The Eagles need to be as good as they can be in all those facets to help us succeed.
We cannot afford more high pick busts like Smith if we want to build a long term sustainable winning team. Hopefully, Agholor will turn the corner this season so we do not have a similar post next off-season about him.
Considering how he has approached the draft since he came back I think its safe to say he’s learned something.
Agree, which is why I mentioned Douglas’ hiring and role in my post as a good signal. It’s too early to know about the recent draft picks, but hopefully good players will emerge. This is also why I mentioned development and how it works with the evaluation, acquisition and, ultimately, retention facets. Pederson and the coaching staff are more responsible for this facet and need to be judged on the results as well.
I am sure there are behind the scenes takes that point the fingers in both directions, but Smith didn’t FEEL like a Howie pick.
It seemed like a panic pick. We all know the Insidious 6 Chip wanted and that he wanted to trade up. I think Chip and Howie not getting their ish on the same page led to MSII.
It was reported and acknowledged that Roseman had final say in that draft. There were also other reports of Roseman over-ruling Chip during that draft multiple times. The only way he over-rules Chip is if he had that authority.
To believe that Roseman would do that yet somehow “cave” into Chip on the 1st round pick seems absurd to me. At the very least, they both agreed Smith was the best option at #26 and thus went ahead. Maybe the blame can be shared, but again, as the guy with final say who could have done something different, Roseman, should take more imo.
I agree there is a strong tendency for fans to blame the guy no longer here (who they hate) and give the guy who is a pass since they are so relieved the other guy is gone.
I believe that fans assuming they know what went on is absurd.
I also believe that looking back and assigning blame is at best unproductive and a fools errand.
Disagree. This is why there is a local sports media whose job is to inform the fans about the organization and act as the communication vehicle for the organization to their fans.
This is why they hold press conferences, do interviews and all the rest. The organization needs to communicate to the fans and the fans have a right to know what they are supporting in their community.
This is a well established reality that Roseman had final say in that draft and thus, at the very least, takes partial accountability for the Marcus Smith bust. It is an expensive mistake for the organization and there is nothing wrong at all with calling those responsible onto the carpet. Any business or organization in a result-based environment like the NFL must have accountability to survive.
If no one ever gets held accountable for their mistakes/poor results or demands accountability for such things, then fans are nothing more than beer drinking and food eating cheerleaders and the organization has zero incentive to do anything but line their pockets at taxpayer expense and laugh all the way to their vacation homes.
That is not who I am as a fan and not what I demand from the Eagles in exchange for my support either.
Fair enough. I and get your opinion (you’re certainly not alone).
“then fans are nothing more than beer drinking and food eating cheerleaders and the organization has zero incentive to do anything but line their pockets at taxpayer expense and laugh all the way to their vacation homes.”
I think that this is absolutely the case. Personally.
I don’t think we have a right to know what’s going on be hind closed doors. I think we can want to, but I don’t think we have that “right”.
I also don’t think it’s the reporters job to get answers – they can ask, but I think there job is to write stuff that consumers want to read so that papers/websites create revenue.
But that’s just my view.
You’re not alone either, Thanks for explaining your views.
We just completely disagree which is fine.
There is no one way to be an Eagles fan.
For me, it is another investment of my time/money/energy and a choice. Obviously, being a native Philadelphian, the Eagles like all our teams are deeply ingrained in me, but, if there are not results or poor performance, I have no problem calling for accountability.
Fair enough. Well stated.
The moment a team takes public money for their stadium, they don’t get to be completely private organization anymore, in my opinion at least. The Eagles have taken public money.
Ok.
But it’s a private organization.
Also, I think often they say “it was Howie” – so that he’s the “fall guy” and they can then move on.
Who is they in this scenario?
Front office
Sounds to me that you are holding sports organizations to the same standard as our representative government. Or is that vice versa? Or… ah, never mind.
Absolutely agree. At WORST, we can say “Marcus Smith was 100% Howie’s pick, no ifs, ands, or buts.” And if we can say that, what’s the big deal? Fletcher Cox was a Howie pick as well, at least as much as Smith (Howie was the one who finagled the trade to get him).
I think that trying to say that a first round bust in Smith means we should draw and quarter Howie is insanity. Again, in the worst case, if he’s 100% responsible, so freaking what? Please name a single GM in the history of the NFL who has not whiffed on a first round pick. It doesn’t mean he’s a garbage GM, any more than picking Cox or Barnett means he’s a genius.
On top of that, Smith was put in terrible position by Chip who basically didn’t want to play him.
Not an excuse, but Chip’s vindictive streak didn’t help the guy.
How dare you shoot holes in two of the main characteristics of Eagles fans.
I agree with you post. And since I fall into the group that blames Kelly, I’ll explain my reason. I think Kelly had a really specific list of requirements for players. This eliminated many good players in the draft just because they didn’t fit in Chips ideal box for each position. I think Howie tried to work within the parameters set by Chip. So even if Howie made the pick, I think it was limited because of Chip’s narrowmindedness.
To be more specific, with no illusions that we have the true info, it feels as if Howie got stuck and he doesn’t usually get stuck.
Maybe there were too many constraints, maybe his guys were vetoed, maybe the scouting department was confused as to what to find, maybe he just miscalculated the difficulty applying his drafting style to Chip’s list of guys. Maybe…
I just know I came away from that draft trying to shake the feeling that we got out maneuvered, and that was a unique feeling.
Pretty sure he was. Kelly, by all reports, wanted to draft Jordan Matthews at 22. Roseman convinced him to wait until the second (again per multiple reports), and did a small tradeback to 26 (good), then picked what must have been the most need-based player from the scouts’ second tier. If Kelly wanted Matthews, then by all logic Smith was someone else’s pick (i.e. Roseman). Roseman did get Matthews in the second, though that required a trade-up. In retrospect, best would have been to take Matthews at 26, which would have been an even higher overdraft than Smith but would have worked out better.
For the likely picks which have been Roseman’s final decision, I actually think he as done pretty well — but Smith is his worst high pick. Kelly and Davis obviously didn’t have much use for him. And he had to learn a new position in a 4-3 defense after that. We thought we had a screaming need a year later when Cole and Graham were expected to leave, but we ended up re-signing Graham.
Total speculation, but it felt to me like he Howie probably made the pick, but in a way to appease Chip. Heck if I know.
Smith was considered a second round pick by consensus, and we were picking late first. He would not have been there by the time we picked in the second round. With the benefit of hindsight, yeah, bad pick. Without that hindsight, he was going to be drafted highly by one of the 32 teams and we happened to be it. If there was really such a drop off after those 6 players they were eyeing, then the real mistake was to A) not make a bigger play to move up to get one of them, or B) not have a backup plan(s) for who they wanted if they didn’t get one.
Agreed – either pay the price to jump up and get one of the 6 talents you believe are elite or trade back again, pick up more assets and adjust accordingly.
Again, no one is saying these choices are easy or clear cut, but in order to be the GM of the Eagles, one cannot afford to make mistakes like this.
Roseman has now brought in Douglas and given him authority to set up the board. That tells me Roseman understands he has weaknesses with drafting and understands he needs help. I think those are all very good signs.
on B), you’re 100% right. If you’re picking #26, and don’t have at least 26 guys you’re ready to pick there, you’re probably doing something wrong.
They were picking 22. They did trade back to 26, but I guess Smith was at the top of the next group. I think Chip Kelly wanted Matthews, but Roseman thought we could get him later in the second (which was true), and pick an additional high-value target. We just misfired on the selection.
Smith was the last of the high-ceiling OLBs, which were getting overdraft by everyone, and which it seemed we had a desperate need for — it seemed likely both Cole and Graham would not be back, and Barwin was our only viable OLB. Smith was not terribly overdrafted, but he was probably right in that second tier of ranked players, and you often do draft for need when picking among players in a tier. We just chose badly. He was high-ceiling, but was also a long ways from hitting that ceiling, and still is.
We should have likely have been more aggressive about trading up. Or Smith should not have been in that second group. But he would have gone in the next few picks (to another team’s chagrin).
Can you name a GM that has not had 1st round draft bust?
Beuhler, Beuhler?
Douglas is a disciple of the great Ozzie Newsome. Ozzie whiffed on Matt Elam to succeed Ed Reed. Oops! How about Kyle Boller in the first round. Or moving out of the first and taking Sergio Kindle? Sergio who? Exactly.
Surely the great Bill Belichick never had a draft bust right? Wrong…Chad Jackson, Ras-I Dowling and Dominique Easley would disagree.
I wanted Jackson so bad. That just added to my patriot hate.
The lesson is: Don’t have 1st round busts.
Action plan: try harder? be smarter? be luckier? Don’t have Chip Kelly’s talent eval. skills and don’t have Andy Reid’s 1st round luck?
It’s hard to figure exactly which picks Roseman was responsible for, although Smith is almost certainly one, and really the only 1st rounder of those which were most likely Roseman’s decision that has bombed. He has done reasonably well otherwise — and this was a 26th pick, where it’s easier to miss. That draft was not handled well, and probably led to the eventual fallout between Kelly and Roseman. Smith was not a horrid overdraft — he was just rated too highly by the scouts (but so did many others as well). It was not remotely a Watkins/Jarrett situation.
I blame Chip for narrowing the board down too much. Howie might have made the pick, but I think he was limited by Chip. Seems like Howie learned from this. If he and Joe can get along I think they can build a great team together.
Thanks Chip.