No. 7 is No. 25

Posted: July 4th, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 61 Comments »

Ron Jaworski is going through and ranking the Top 32 QBs in the NFL. Michael Vick clocked in at the No. 25 spot. Jaws had some interesting thoughts on Vick.

“Vick is coming off of a disappointing 2012 season, but all will be different in Philadelphia with a new head coach in Chip Kelly. And I’m certain of one thing — Vick is the most talented quarterback on the Eagles roster. Vick remains a dynamic player with top-level arm strength and unmatched movement ability to extend plays with his legs. Few can spin it as well as number 7, especially on the run. Kelly will look at Vick and see a multidimensional quarterback that can pressure a defense in a variety of ways.

“Here’s the positive as the Eagles transition to Kelly’s shotgun, spread attack. Vick was outstanding in the two-minute offense last season with a quarterback rating of 98. I am going to be fascinated to see Michael Vick in Chip Kelly’s up-tempo-speed offense. My initial sense is it will fit Vick very well, less volume offensively, but also defensively. I would not be surprised if Vick ends the season better than my 25th-rated quarterback.”

As far as the ranking goes, I can’t argue with that. Vick isn’t guaranteed to start so you clearly can’t rank him very high.

The most interesting nugget here is that Vick had a rating of 98 in the 2-minute offense. I’d love to know more about that stat. Was he moving the ball down the field efficiently or were there some broken plays that inflated the number? Did Vick thrive because Andy and Marty quit trying to out-think the world and gave him simpler plays that the offense executed well? Did the pace simply help Vick get into a rhythm? Were defenses playing soft and we just had a bunch of underneath passes?

Stats are great information, but you need to know what’s behind them to really put them into context. If Vick was simply doing well vs prevent defenses, there isn’t much to take from this. If he played well because defenses had a hard time being complex, that is good. Kelly wants the no-huddle to limit what defenses can do so that angle would apply to Vick and the 2013 season.  I might have to go back and re-watch some 2-minute situations.

We don’t yet know how Vick will play in Kelly’s offense, but this could be a positive sign for him.

* * * * *

One thing that does bug me in regard to analysts and Michael Vick is all the talk about his talent. Vick was talented last year, but didn’t play well. As the old story goes, Jerry Claiborne, a college coach, went up to a kid during pre-game drills and said “Son, your potential is going to get me fired.”

Talent is talent. But it does a coach no good if he can’t “control” it. A coach needs a player that is on the same page with him. I don’t mean that they get along or anything of that nature. I mean that the player has to understand the coach’s vision for the offense or defense and has to be able to make that come to life.

Ray Rhodes and Jon Gruden benched Randall Cunningham for Rodney Peete because Randall wasn’t on the same page with them.

Bill Belichick was about to bench Drew Bledsoe when he got hurt in 2001. Belichick saw a veteran QB that was set in his ways and not doing what the new staff wanted.

Jimmy Johnson won Super Bowls with Troy Aikman because they shared the same vision. Both were hard, driven men. Jimmy had major struggles in Miami because Dan Marino was on a completely different planet than him.

Vick will be the QB for Chip Kelly only if he is able to listen to Chip and truly understand what he wants. Forget about talent. Kelly wants a player that can run his offense, can make his ideas come to life.

If the QB competition was purely about talent, there wouldn’t be a competition. Vick from 2018 might still be more gifted than Nick Foles and Matt Barkley. The question is whether Vick can soak up the offense as a concept and then execute it on the field. Consistently.

Vick had some ups and downs in the spring. That’s okay. As I wrote a few weeks back, last spring Trent Edwards was struggling to just throw the ball at all since the coaches messed with his mechanics. By the time July rolled around, he looked worlds better. What happens in May doesn’t dictate what happens in July and August.

Honestly, the best thing for Vick was probably to have some struggles. He needs to understand that his strong arm and speedy legs aren’t good enough anymore. Chip Kelly doesn’t want highlights. He wants points. He wants wins. If Vick will look in the mirror and truly acknowledge what is at stake (his future), that could be strong enough motivation to get him to adapt.

My dad smoked cigarettes for about 55 years. We begged him to quit for the last 25. Wouldn’t do it. He had all kinds of excuses. He had a heart attack back in November of 2010 and almost died. When he left the hospital a couple of weeks later, we all wondered about the smoking. Could the man who smoked for 5 decades walk away? Yes. He never smoked another cigarette. The threats to his health were an abstract idea prior to the heart attack. After that, he got it. Sadly, the cigarettes did finally catch up to him in the form of lung cancer. If you do smoke, do yourself and your family a favor and quit. Please.

Vick never feared for his football life. He always knew his talent was good enough that it would help save the day. Vick expected to be a starting QB when he was reinstated back in 2009. He took things slow because he had the Commissioner, Tony Dungy and Andy Reid all over him. But Vick never doubted himself. Once he did get on the field in 2010, Starship 7 took over. 2011 was erratic, but there was the whole lockout and that affected some players and teams more than others. 2012 was the time when things changed. Vick struggled. He got hurt. He then got healthy, but Foles stayed the QB. I’m sure Reid explained this was strictly a decision in regard to the future so Vick could deal with it better.

Then Kelly got hired. Vick finally had a coach that was going to run the ball. Kelly even used some option. That meant Vick could make big plays with his legs as a pure runner and not as a scrambler. I’m sure Vick was a happy camper for a few weeks.

The spring changed all that. Vick quickly learned that this wasn’t his team or his offense. This is Chip Kelly’s team, Chip Kelly’s offense. The man taking snaps will be Chip Kelly’s QB. You do things Chip’s way or you hit the highway. Simple as that. Andy Reid was this way when he started, but time has a way of softening the edges of mortal men (thus Belichick is exempt). Reid let good enough become good enough.

Kelly won’t do that. It might happen if he’s around in 2026, but for now Kelly is going to ride his QBs hard. Kelly will want them to do things his way and they will be held accountable. Vick hasn’t truly dealt with this in a long, long time…if ever. Based on what you saw and heard in the spring it is easy to jump to the conclusion that Vick won’t get it and will lose the QB competition.


But his football life is on the line. If he truly gets that, as my dad did with smoking, Vick can change. I’m not saying the guy will turn into a completely different player, but he can adapt. It is going to be really interesting to see how this plays out. Kelly has told the QBs what he wants to see. This is an open-book test.

I’d love to be a fly on the wall at Vick’s house. Does he have his head buried in the playbook? Is it getting through to him that the next couple of months could significantly shape the next part of his life? Or does Vick hear Jaws report and only focus on all the positives about just how talented he still is?

It does seem funny that such a gifted player, who has mesmerized us all countless times with his artistry, will only win the starting job if he’s able to execute simple plays better than a second year QB and a rookie.

* * * * *

I will write a column on Vick and what will happen if he doesn’t win the job. That’s another long post for another day.

* * * * *

Jimmy Bama and I recorded  a new show. We discussed the DRC situation for a few minutes. Then we got into a discussion about TD celebrations and things of that nature. Somewhere in the show Jimmy brought up the fact he’s never seen Lone Wolf McQuade and loved the clip I posted the other day. So we talked about Lone Wolf McQuade for a bit.

61 Comments on “No. 7 is No. 25”

  1. 1 pricebe said at 3:01 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    The problem I have with calling Vick a QB who has a lot of talent is that the most important trait in a good QB is decision making. Yes Vick has a strong arm, the ball goes where he wants it to and he’s uber athletic, but I wouldn’t call him a “naturally talented QB”. He doesn’t have it upstairs. He doesn’t know how to deal with the blitz. Ever since team got less afraid of his running and have blitzed the crap out of him he’s been a bad starter who is a turnover machine.. If you can’t deal with the blitz you’re not a talented QB. End of story.

  2. 2 GEagle said at 7:14 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    exactly! i hate the way we define QB talent…What good is a cannon of an arm, if you re inaccurate and make terribly costly decisions? what good is blazing speed when you won’t protect the ball or your fragile body? what good is being tough, when it leads to stupid?
    I can’t spend another season watching a video game QB. Start developing our young QBs instead of wasting time trying to get Vick to correct countless bad habits that he has accumilated by not putting in the work or ever reLly learning how to play the game..
    I’m going to throw the biggest party known to man the day Vick is removed from this roster

  3. 3 OregonDucker said at 3:34 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    The Eagles now have a QB who reads blitzes. Can he read blitzes in the NFL, I don’t know. But I do know the best Defense strategy against a Chip Kelly Offense is the BLITZ so the Eagles’ QB better be able to see it, and compensate for it.

    Kelly knows this. You can bet, he will have the Eagles’ Defense blitz his QB candidates during TCs. I hope some of you get to see this and let us know which QB performs best. That’s your starter.

  4. 4 GEagle said at 8:03 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    It has gotten to the point that even those rare times that Vick plays lights out football(think the recent blowout of the cowboys), I Genuinly don’t enjoy to watch that style of play..I simply have no desire to watch a QB take off, juke 3 defenders, hurdle the 4th and then get tackled(pray he doesn’t fumble) 40 yards down field..that’s what friggin WR and RBs are for!!!

    the things I actually “enjoy” watching a QB do simply have oohing to do with Vicks game. I’m not impressed by your inaccurate Cannon attached to a bonehead decision maker. I’m not interested in Blazing foot speed from the QB(when it’s a fumble or injury waiting to happen)… things I enjoy to see in a QB:
    1) I thoroughly enjoy the mental sparring between Peyton and the MLB, pre snap. I enjoy watching Surgeons who dissect the defense and then surgically deliver an accurate strike!!
    2) I enjoy watching Brees get the ball out so damn fast that the pass rush is utterly irrelevant
    3) I enjoy watching Brady work a pocket in the midst of defensive pressure, stepping up in the pocket to avoid a pass rush, or side stepping a defender,lake him miss, buying yourself an extra moment to deliver a strike
    4) and if I have to watch a QB take off, I have no interest in a video game highlight. It’s much more enjoyable for me to watch a smart QB like Rogers take off, he sees a huge lane with no defender in sight, takes off, gets 15yards, and as soon as a defender starts to close in on him, he gracefully slides frustrating the hell out of a defense because they can’t get their hands on him..

    if Football is about enjoyment, then how could I possibly Ok with Vick, when he literally does NOT do any of the things that I enjoy about the game? Too many bad habits to fix, and way too fragile to be wasting crazy resources and valuable playing time trying to teach this dude how to unlearn all his bad habits, and play the game the right way..I have already heard every single excuse in the book, every hollow promise…Vick just tells you exactly what you want to hear, then does NONE of what he says…it has all become to Allen Iverson-ish for my taste…
    2 Phenomenal Talents, so talented that it crippled them from ever learning to play the game the right way, yet have mastered telling us what we want to hear. I’m over it. pick a young QB and start developing him and stop wasting time,resources and snaps on Vick. he made his bed! he was too talented to ever put in the time to learn to read defenses and learn to play the game like a Super Bowl winner…and where I come from you reap what you sow!!!!
    I would literally rather see what GJ Kinney can do, then to spend another season watching a Qb play the game like he is a WR running a reverse with an option pass. PIck a smart, hard working young QB, who won’t wait til he is 29years old to start taking the film room serious, and start developing him. pick a young QB, any young QB..Foles,Barkley,whatever

  5. 5 MediaMike said at 8:55 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    Yes, real football. QB passes.

  6. 6 GEagle said at 8:08 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    Vick is to the NFL, as Allen Iverson was to the NBA…2 of the most talented athletes to ever grace their respected Leagues, yet just never learned to play the game the right way.

  7. 7 MediaMike said at 9:42 AM on July 5th, 2013:

    except Iverson was the best player in the NBA for a few seasons. Vick never was the best in the NFL.

  8. 8 TheRogerPodacter said at 1:19 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    well said.

  9. 9 GEagle said at 2:10 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    Thank you sir…the point is, there isn’t a QB on our roster that we can start this year and consider him a finished product who is going to be able to do all these things at a satisfactory level. That is going to have to be developed. There is no time to break all these bad habits and develope Vick and then have enough time to compete with him before old age erodes his ability..

    Do I think Chip Kelly can transform Vick? possibly. Do I think Chip can transform Vick in 6 months? heck No!
    Whether Foles, Vick, Barkley takes this field this year, they are all going to need Atleast 2 years under Kelly to develope into something that can take a real shot at a Super Bowl run..So, I really don’t care who we start, as long as its someone who is young enough to spend two years developing and still have time to then reap the rewards of his development…and unless Vick is going to play til he is 38years old, someone please help me see the point?

  10. 10 P_P_K said at 1:25 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    I respect your opinion about what makes football enjoyable, but I think you are being harsh in your evaluation of Vick by comparing him to Peyton, Brees, Brady, and Rogers. These are the best qbs of this generation, pretty much everyone looks like a chump compared to those guys.

    Sure, Mike’s natural talent helped him avoid developing his skill sets, but part of who he is as an athlete is a qb that can run. My feeling is that the best way to use his legs is as a threat; call a couple option plays to keep the D worried about his running but only have him carry the ball when it is wise, like Rogers seems to do.

  11. 11 GEagle said at 2:02 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    Im not being harsh on Vick at all. I did not compare him to those QBs…I listed things that those QBs do well, that any Qb in the NFL is capable of if they work at it enough….

    study the playbook enough and the defense enough to have the ability to get the ball out fast like Bree’s…this isn’t some special talent that he was born with!!
    Step up in the pocket to avoid the pass rush like Brady, again, not a skill you are born with..Sure the is some “feeling” the rush and instinct involved, but Vick doesn’t even try to do this…He is wired to take off whenever he perceives pressure.

    have the damn common sense to give up and slide before a defender gets to hit you the way Aaron Rogers does…If this is too much to ask for, then my head will explode today..
    Peyton Mannin was not born with the special talent of reading defenses and knowing his playbook well enough to be able to battle the MLB pre-snap…He worked on it. Something Vick should have been doing for the first 7 years of his career. Instead of relying on talent and playing the game like a video game…

    if those 4 very attainable skill sets are too much to ask for out of the QB of the Philadelphia Eagles, then We have some serious problems because none of those QBs that I mentioned were born with these ability…they worked at it!! When I look at the QBs on our Roster, I don’t see how anyone can say they have the most faith in Vick to be able to learn to do these things….These skillets aren’t aquired overnight..they take years of working at it. Vick doesn’t have Years, thus he isn’t ever going to be able to Improve on these aspects enough..So we should not waste anymore time, and give Foles or Barkley the experience that every young player needs to get under their belt, to ever have a Chance at being something in this league

  12. 12 Scott J610 said at 8:57 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    All this Vick talk is irrelevant, because even if he starts, he’ll be knocked out in week 4 and will never regain his job. Vick has an old football body and he’ll never make it through the season. The read-option will be his doom, not his resurgence.

  13. 13 MediaMike said at 9:02 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    AMEN. I’ll add on that read-option is the doom of all QB’s health.

  14. 14 GEagle said at 2:11 PM on July 4th, 2013:


  15. 15 Daniel Norman Richwine said at 9:07 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    Vick is the most talented QB on the team, and last I checked the only one to lead hisNFL team to a playoff win, a playoff, or a winning record. its not a stretch to call him the best QB on the roster, even if you also want to discuss why you don’t think he should.start.
    if Vick is able to run Chip Kelly’s offense, he will bring more to the table than the other QBs. If.

  16. 16 MediaMike said at 9:09 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    Vick is also the QB most likely to get hurt and/or turn the football over. That is a dead end. He is not the QB of the future, but I don’t know if Foles and/or Barkley are. We need to find out. I know what we have in Vick and it isn’t good enough.

  17. 17 Daniel Norman Richwine said at 11:28 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    Yes the runner up MVP of a few years ago who go murdered by a poor OL is terrible. You can’t argue with that logic.

  18. 18 MediaMike said at 1:21 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    That MVP runner up was well-deserved, but fool’s gold. Vick was exposed by the Vikings as having a limited ability to understand unique defensive looks. He’s done nothing but disappoint over the past two seasons. His limits are well known. He’s not the player to lead us to a championship. I need to know if Foles and/or Barkley are before we go all in for a QB in next year’s draft or not.

  19. 19 Daniel Norman Richwine said at 9:44 AM on July 5th, 2013:

    That’s a rational argument. I disagree in that I think its far too limited, but you may be right.

  20. 20 MediaMike said at 9:51 AM on July 5th, 2013:

    I didn’t invent that argument, it’s been in the media for a while. If you really look at the games, the Vikings debacle was a real turning point. Leslie Frazier is one smart coach.

  21. 21 TheRogerPodacter said at 1:16 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    think about the patriots. at one point, drew bledsoe had a better resume than tom brady. its not very helpful to look back at what they might have done with past teams, seasons, and even coaching staff.

  22. 22 Daniel Norman Richwine said at 9:45 AM on July 5th, 2013:

    Tom Brady is always the exception which proves every rule.

  23. 23 Tumtum said at 9:32 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    Ahh the enigma of Michael Vick. The most exciting and most frustrating thing about him. Is he going to fumble from a soft sack attempt or roll out of it and make a 50 yard play? Reid was caught up in it. It didn’t cost him his job, but it certainly didn’t help matters.

    Here is to hoping Chip stays rigid. One of the great things about Reid was his uncanny ability to make QBs better. He did it with Vick too. He clearly did not want to take the play maker out of him. He cashed in on Don’ play making hundreds of times. Thing about Don was that he understood turnovers were cardinal sins.

    No matter what Vick is able to do to finish his career I think people will write about what could have been.

  24. 24 MediaMike said at 9:35 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    Worm burner passes aside, I’d take another decade of Donovan in a heartbeat.

  25. 25 Tumtum said at 9:54 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    At the end of his tenure here I really got sick of his attitude, and his play clearly declined. Hands down though I would be thrilled to have him back in his prime. I don’t think there are many (any?) teams that would not be.

  26. 26 MediaMike said at 9:58 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    TV / air guitar / crybaby about getting booed on draft day Donovan was always an annoyance. On the field Donovan was our franchise best. That dichotomy has always blown my mind.

  27. 27 GEagle said at 2:24 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    To this day I’m still baffled as to how many friggin Eagles fans, all thought we were completely Doomed the moment we saw him do the air guitar.
    Now this is just my oppinion, but I thought Donovan had everything you need in a Super Bowl winning QB in terms of skills and Physical ability, but he simply lacked too many intangibles to overcome enough high pressure moments with the game on the line.

    The whole Donovan Dynamic I find it so fascinating til this day. I used to think, is it just me? Am I being too harsh on the guy? But over the years, millions of people have echoed my same exact feelings about Donovan’s Charecter, leadership, and there has to be something to it. millions of people can’t all be crazy, and all coincidently read him the same way..

    yes some Philadelphians booed him on draft day, but for the most part I remember Donovan having Eagles Nation Eating out of the palms of his hand the first couple years of his career. Slowly but surely he lost Eagles Nation. How could a guy who is having all that success have his hometown fans against him, and not look in the mirror and change something. I respect Donovan, and Acknowledge he is the best QB I have ever had the pleasure to root for…yet I just don’t understand why I can’t get myself to like the guy. I try and like him, I really do, but it just doesn’t work…yet I love every single other quality Eagle from that era…It’s such a weird Dynamic that I still can’t understand

  28. 28 bsuperfi said at 3:02 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    I dunno – millions of people watch the voice and dancing with the stars and they’re clearly wrong. I’ll stick to the evidence. McNabb was sometimes wacky and off putting, but he did win a ton of big do or die games in the playoffs. He also didn’t come up big when we really needed him too. Though, Brady hasn’t either in quite a while and it’s not like manning played that well in the Super Bowl.

    The what if game is easy to play with McNabb because he was so close so often. It’s also what made eagles football so amazing during for such a long time during the Reid/McNabb era.

  29. 29 GEagle said at 3:09 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    Absolutely…but let me ask you your personal oppinion…If some of the Charecter and intangibles were different with McNabb do you think he would have gotten over the hump?

    I look at this guy, and he had all the physical tools, and I don’t think any of us can say that he wasn’t a smart guy, or didn’t have the right work ethic…so I have nothing else to point to but the Charecter and intangibles such as that clutch gene, the ability to make men want to run through brick walls for you because you make them feel invincible…Of course we can never sit here and measur this stuff, so it’s all speculative, but I have nothing else to point to for why he wasn’t able to capitalize once on all those opportunities..that’s all I got lol

  30. 30 OregonDucker said at 3:30 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    There is now an Eagle QB with the “clutch” gene. I don’t know if he can show it against NFL Defenses but I know it’s there.

  31. 31 GEagle said at 3:45 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    I like Both our young gunners..
    Oregon, out of curiosity how familiar were you with our last season? just trying to get an idea of your view point. if this is the first season you are really following the Eagles, then I think it would be very interesting to get a view point from a new fan that hasn’t been jaded by all the hard knocks us eagles fans have had to try to endure? Lol…basically I’m trying to figure out How Pure is your view point? Lol…and I’m not trying to imply anything negative at all, the opposite actually… I think its valuable and interesting to get a view point from a fresh set of unjaded eyes, and that’s my only reason for asking…Life as an Eagles fan has worn a lot of us down lol…
    ducker when you get a chance, read my post about Ick being held accountable for not sliding, and give me your thoughts on how you think Chip would handle situations like that. thanks mate

  32. 32 OregonDucker said at 5:33 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    LOL, my viewpoint is pretty “pure” as you say above. I don’t always have access to Eagles games, so I only saw a few, as well as highlights. But I concur with your perception of Vick’s play, i.e. he leverages his athleticism to make plays not Football IQ.

    Chip will be unforgiving regarding turnovers, poor play (i.e. Football IQ), and dumb-ass-ness. Once he chooses a QB, he rarely changes his mind – he will pull a QB for dumb-ass-ness but usually that QB starts the next game.

    I would be absolutely shocked if Chip picks Vick to start. But if his play is super and he recognizes and compensates for blitzes then the Chipper will pick him.

  33. 33 GEagle said at 7:04 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    Lol…good to know. just think it will be interesting to compare and contrast my oppinion with that of someone I respect, but also happens to be “pure” lol.
    for example, Last year, die hard Eagles fans were treated to a historically pathetic secondary with two starting outside CBs who flat out Quit on us multiple times…everything was so dysfunctional and pathetic that it’s literally not possible for this year to not be an Improvement to my eyes…Cary Williams will look like a godsend to my eyes but why? NNamdi and many other members of this team were so damn pathetic and the bar has been lowered drastically from what we have been accustomed to during the Andy era, that I worry about my ability this year to accurately judge the level of improvements we are seeing..Is Cary really playing great football, or am I just soo happy to see him after seeing NNamdi for two years? That’s were I think it gets interesting to compare point of views with fans who haven’t suffered so many of the previous heartbreaks.

    I’m kind of Jealous of our new brothers in green from Duck Nation, who weren’t emotional invested in these past two years…we had 12years of Andy, so close, then we had a dream team free agency..You don’t understand how optimistic we were going into these past two seasons, only to suffer through a historically pathetic year of dysfunction lol. I wish I didn’t have to carry last year with me as a fan. Which is why I’m so anxious for Chip to remove Vick from the equation.

  34. 34 GEagle said at 7:14 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    mighty Oregon Ducker(aka Gordon Bombay of Iggles blitz lol)….when you get a minute I need to get your oppinion on my post below about will chip Tolerate a QB who refuses to slide a single time? After all the turnovers and injuries that his refusal to slide caused us. We paid some very steep prices for those boneheaded decisions….would chip hold a player so accountable as to say “screw your instincts, I don’t care if you fumble or not, refuse to slide and you won’t play?”… Or is that a little extreme?

  35. 35 Tumtum said at 7:01 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    You are right. Life as an Eagle fan has jaded many of us. I don’t REALLY get it though. I’m only 27 though. So maybe I wouldn’t. In my time as an Eagles fan I have always felt like we have been the class of the NFL. A model franchise for teams that were trying to turn it around, to model themselves after.

    We were close to winning the big one so many times. It just didn’t happen. I mean in all that blood sweat in tears if there were lets just say 5 more wins in ALL those years we are the dynasty and not NE. Its just nuts to me that people can’t appreciate that.

    There is not another team in the league I wish I rooted for, and I live near a pretty successful one. It seems like most Eagles fans deep down wished they pulled for another team. Mind boggling.

  36. 36 bsuperfi said at 7:43 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    @ GEagle I don’t know if McNabb would’ve gotten over the hump with more intangibles. I’m agnostic on the nature of intangibles. Are they leadership? Consistency? Decision making? Guts? Some of these are actually not that intangible to me. Others are, but I’m not convinced of how much they actually exist or are really just a construct. I really don’t know.

    As far as McNabb goes, the first thing that comes to mind is the nfccg against ari. McNabb played great in the second half, when it counted, in the “guts” of the game. Akers and the D let the team down. The second thing that comes to mind is the int in the sb at the end of the half on the pass that was intended for Westbrook.

    I think a fair look at the record reveals a really good qb who could win the sb in the right circumstances and with some luck.

  37. 37 barneygoogle said at 9:44 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    I can’t ever remember another quarterback where we’re talking about his “potential” at age 33. Also can’t think of a pre-season in 50 years of Eagle watching–where 3 quarterbacks have a shot at the job.
    Note: Back in 1966 maybe, Jack Concannon shared the QB role with Norm Snead (#1) and King Hill (#2), but that was due to injuries. I think we went 9-5.

  38. 38 MediaMike said at 9:51 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    Nice bit of history there. I only go back active memory style to 1985 with the team, but the total 3 way QB battle is very interesting. I’m firmly in the “anybody but Vick” camp, but we’ll see what shakes out.

  39. 39 Engwrite said at 9:51 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    To me the most interesting point in the article is Vick’s 98 QB rating on the 2′ drill. Isn’t the Kelly offense a continuous 2′ drill? Does this imply that Vick on Kelly’s offense would become a 98 QB? [I know fumbles don’t affect QB rating but I seem to remember his overall QB ranking was half of that]

  40. 40 MediaMike said at 9:55 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    Yes, fumbles don’t count on a QB rating.
    Also, Tommy crushed the point that prevent Ds had a lot to do with Vick in the 2 minute drill. We got smoked in a lot of games last year, so Ds were playing back making sure DeSean didn’t catch us up with one play.

  41. 41 Engwrite said at 10:30 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    I agree but. . .why did Kelly resign Vick? Like everyone else I thought Vick was a goner. If Kelly wanted to ‘teach’ the team his offense, like Reid did his first year with Petersen, he could’ve used Dixon. [Unsigned at the time but available] So what did Kelly see in Vick that we didn’t? What could be worth all that money? Tommy’s mention of that 2′ 98 ranking struck me as a possible explanation, that’s all. Kelly may think that Vick can do even better than a 98 with a healthy OL, a running team and with a greener light to take off himself. The announced competition with Foles maybe his way of telling Vick: “You do it my way or else.” On the other hand the odds are against Vick staying healthy past the 6th week or remain the starter after too many fumbles. By then Foles should be primed.

  42. 42 disqus_AJSAhteg45 said at 10:46 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    Vick is back simply because he’s a low-cost veteran. Kelly needed to go into camp with more than just Nick Foles, so bringing Vick back was a no-brainer. I’m sure Kelly, like anyone would be, is interested in seeing Vick in his offense. Now Kelly has 3 QBs competing and Vick can be cut at any time to save money.

    Vick was not re-signed. He was already under contract and HE decided to restructure his contract. I would guess the only way he would have done this was because no other team inquired about his services.

  43. 43 MediaMike said at 1:24 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    Correct. Vick’s “new” contract was a $3.5 mil cash advance for Vick and an easy escape for the team after he plays his way off of it. Kelly is a competition junkie, so there is no advantage to cutting / trading Vick until the job is won by another. Plus, Vick is very popular in the locker room so cutting him before he plays his way out of the job in pre-season would be highly detrimental to Kelly’s control of the locker room.

  44. 44 GEagle said at 4:06 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    Vick was comparable to Alex smith and Matt Flynn(saly that was the best on the market), but you didn’t have to give up very valuable draft picks and sign him to a long term deal to have Vick. that’s why he is here, IMO of course(because if we don’t write IMO after every single thing we say, it will start a crap storm lol)

  45. 45 ridusofreid said at 9:52 AM on July 4th, 2013:

    Great article and good points made by all. One of the reasons and benefits of bringing in a new staff is that each player must”prove it” to a coach with no loyalties and his own vision of the future. The Reid firing was long overdue and the birds will be better for it.

  46. 46 bsuperfi said at 12:11 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    At this point in Vicks career the odds are just low that he’ll ever come close to maximizing his physical talent. His one big year for us was an anomaly any way you cut it, and luck probably had a lot to do with it given his unbelievably low int percentage. I can’t rule out that Vick will suddenly get it in training camp but I highly doubt it. It’s doubtful that anyone will really make the offense hum in training camp.

    That said, I don’t want to wait around for Vick. I’m with the others. Lets see what the kids can do. The moment is right for a reboot and at least there’s a real competition (instead of, say, putting all our eggs in the Kolb basket).

  47. 47 Ryan said at 12:39 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    So…accuracy, ability to read defenses, and decision making aren’t talents? I guess that Vick is more talented than Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Tom Brady as well then despite the fact that he’s never has been or never will be in their stratosphere as far as how good of a QB he is. It’d be more accurate to say that Vick is a better ATHLETE than Foles or Barkley.

  48. 48 shah8 said at 12:52 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    No matter how much you roll syllables and reasons around…

    Talent is talent is talent

    More specifically, from my viewpoint, the Eagles don’t actually have a choice, because the gulf between the talent of Vick and the talent of Foles is…kinda large. Especially when you’re taking a very large chance that Foles doesn’t have sufficient talent to be a starting NFL QB.

    One way or another, the QB competition is merely a show. Foles can compete with Vick about as well as Caleb Hanie could compete with Cutler. It’s one of three things–showing the work why Vick is the starter for 2013, showing off Foles to a QB needy team, or seeing if Foles can do the minimal tasks necessary such that he can be the popular QB that all fans could luv.

    A real QB competition is probably Weeden vs Campbell.

  49. 49 TheRogerPodacter said at 1:12 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    and yet all the talent in the world couldn’t help vick from hitting the “bugmen” defensive linemen in the spring. as i recall, he was the only qb who hit them, and did so multiple times.

    what if this offense doesn’t require pure talent from the qb and simply asks the qb to play safe, efficient football. sure, an outstanding talent would be able to extend the offense to something greater, but from what we’ve been hearing from Chip, if you don’t play safe, efficient football, you aren’t playing. i’m not sold on the idea that Vick can do that. i’d love to be proven wrong, though!

  50. 50 GEagle said at 2:58 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    All that Talent and he shoulda shut down the QB competition in OTAs before the competition even began lol.

    DIdnt He proclaim to finally have the miracle coach who taught him this mysterious new technique for how to hold the ball? he sounded happier then Magic when he eagerly announced he no longer had the HIV virus lol..yet since then I counted 3 times that a reporter cited Kelly screaming at Vick during practice for the way he was holding the ball..and reporters aren’t even at every practice….
    You reap what you sow, and I’m sorry but It sickens me to watch a 33yr old who at times looks like a rookie making his second start. I’m watching a 33yr old who straight up admitted to squandering about 7 years of his development because he was too talented to give a crap. I want to start Foles this year, but I would start Barkley in a heartbeat over Vick. Barkley might never have half of the physical talent that Vick has, but I’m willing to bet that Barkley won’t squander 7 years of development. So many people bust their asses working their tails off to try to find success in the ultimate team game. Players pushing their bodies to the limits, playing through terrible injuries, coaches working so much that they don’t go home and see their kids in days, the video technicians, the trainers, the weight room trainers..There are ATleast 100 people in each franchise busting their hump to try and make their team successful, making all kinds of sacrifices..I can’t even stress how disrespectful it is for Vick to have been given the keys to a franchise and for 7 seasons and he was just too cool and too talented to put in the work…and guess what, at the age of 33, It Shows!!!
    . When you don’t have a franchise QB, you should be trying to find one. Don’t see how putting Vick in the game is trying to find a franchise Qb. especially after our HC just told us that you can’t ever know what you really have until you put a young QB in the game. Some young QBs arent thrown into games to soon in their careers. The only reason is for fear that playing them to soon can ruin them. Well we are fortunate enough to know that it’s not going to be the case with Foles. That kid took a beating, stayed in the pocket, eyes always down field and kept firing. at No point did he show any hints whatsoever about wanting out of the game. he broke his throwng hand and attempt a bomb 3 snaps later. There is no such thing as Foles being ruined by playing him too soon…so why in the world would we not be finding out exactly who that young man is????.
    There is no reason why 2014 should roll around, and us be sitting here still not knowing who Foles is, and who he isn’t.
    We don’t just need to find out about Foles..we have two young QBs we need to find out about. why in the world would be procrastinate for a season of Vick?

  51. 51 D3FB said at 3:19 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    Jamarcus Russel is incredibly “talented”. He’s currently unemployed. There’s alot more than talent that determines whether or not a QB is the right person for the job.

  52. 52 Neil said at 3:54 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    The downside of Foles isn’t as great as you say. If you’re right, we’ll tank at some point and be in position to draft a more talented player. Or Foles could turn into a savvy Brees or Brady type who wins with a middling arm. I like what I see out of Foles personally, but I acknowledge that very, very few QBs with his physical talent end up championship successful. However, quite a few with Vick’s talent fail to do that too, including Vick. For all Vick’s gifts, he seems fatally flawed. He’s got Flacco’s arm but turns the ball over at about double Flacco’s rate. Maybe he fixes that, but considering the risk he doesn’t, he’s not much better if at all than Foles as a candidate for eagles QB.

  53. 53 A_T_G said at 7:12 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    Shawn Andrews was incredibly talented. At some point, though, the team needed to accept that that talent wasn’t going to help the team win games. In an ideal world, Vick harnesses his talent, finally, and becomes an asset. As of now, I am hoping that #7 is #2 this year.

  54. 54 GEagle said at 3:37 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    one thing, that I can not stomach is how we continue to give him a pass for not sliding, How in the world has it been acceptable for this long? What in the world has he done to get away with this bonehead notion of not sliding year after year. how many times does he have to cost his team a fumble, or their leader missing time with ish that could easily have been avoided. I adore Chip Kelly, but if he allows Vick to put this franchise at risk by refusing to correct easily correctable mistakes, then Chip Kelly will quickly go from Savior to Fraud in my mind. if you can’t hold you QB accountable for not sliding then I seriously question everything else…Vick gives that excuse, that his instincts take over, and he just can’t make himself slide? like are we kidding? if you can’t “Think” in the midst of battle and have control of your body to stop making such a simple mistake, then you should not be playing Quarterback in the NFL. if you don’t have enough Discapline to overcome an Instinct that has been so detrimental to every single friggin team you ever played for…then I reserve the right to not want you on this team. I can understand in the heat of the moment if he messes up every once in a while, and doesn’t slide(I guess), but this dense in the head Qb, hasn’t slid a single time!!! How is this Ok?!?!..
    Players and coaches bust their humps to help the starting Qb be successful. All the time they invest, all the injuries they play through, and this fragile dope won’t respect his damn teammates and coaches enough to simply slide. it’s not OK! It’s not acceptable. it does Not make you tough, it does not make you a competitor, it flat out makes you stupid!…this man hasn’t slid once yet!!! How many fumbles do I have to watch because he wants to dive head first. How many games does he have to miss due to concussions or broken ribs because of his refusal to slide? how many more times do I have to watch the same exact crap until Vick realizes that “His way” isn’t friggin working, and maybe he should try something different. he hasnt played a full season in God Knows how long, yet He still gets passes for not sliding..If you don’t have the discapline or intelligence to correct this one simple problem and decrease the amount of times that you make mistakes that crush Eagles Nation then GTFO here….why in the world is he taking reps away from Foles and Barkley? know, kids that ATleast have a chance at correcting a mistake if we give them a decade of playing time!

    I know Qbs wear Red Jerseys and you can’t tackle them..but if you are going to simulate the game by using fly swatters…then I want to see practice simulated to where If Vick does chose to take off and run with the ball, the play can only end two ways:
    1) Vick out of bounds before a defender gets to tag him
    2) Or Vick Sliding before a defender gets to tag him

    Any other outcome should be considered a complete Failure!! And If Vick isn’t going to slide or get out of bounds before a defender tags him at ATleast an 80% success rate, then there should be nothing he can do to win this job. if after all the friggin mistakes “your way” has caused, then I’m sorry, but you are a friggin Dope if he doesn’t make this one simple change, and Kelly should stop allowing him to take reps away from Foles and Barkley….That head first crap has been tolerated Long enough, and It should No Longer be Ok!!!

  55. 55 OregonDucker said at 9:17 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    GEagle – As I mentioned above, Chip does not tolerate QB dumb-ass-ness. What you describe IS dumb-ass-ness, hence Chip will not want a QB who puts the season in jeopardy on each play.

    As to taking reps from Foles and Barkley, Chip has locker-room politics to consider. Dumb-ass-ness and poor Football IQ will show itself to fans and players during TC and PS. I agree with the coaches that the best QB will be clear to see. So Chip is just letting things play out and not taking reps from Foles and Barkley. But make no mistake, Chip has seen the film, that’s why I think things are uphill for Vick.

  56. 56 GEagle said at 7:23 AM on July 5th, 2013:

    This makes me feel a lot better. Thanks ducker!!!

  57. 57 Weapon Y said at 5:05 PM on July 4th, 2013:

    Vick has been an enigma for over a decade. He has lots of highlight plays that show up on ESPN. We found out the hard way that he also makes tons of stupid blunders (the 4 INT game vs. Cleveland, the 2 unforced fumbles against the Steelers).

    He struggles to read the defense before the play and make a quick decision during the play. When he was lightning quick, his running ability bailed him out from hanging onto the ball too long. Now that Vick’s running ability has declined, the Eagles are suffering the consequences of his inability to make reads and quick decisions. As you’ve said before, Tommy, Chip is giving Vick the answers to the test. The problem is that it’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks (um…too soon).

  58. 58 MediaMike said at 9:46 AM on July 5th, 2013:

    And you’ll see these struggles on the field in pre-season games when Vick cuts himself off of this team.

  59. 59 Adam said at 9:53 AM on July 5th, 2013:

    The biggest issue for Vick is that his biggest weaknesses (turnovers, inability to read defenses) are the two of the assets Chip values the most in his QB.

  60. 60 MediaMike said at 10:00 AM on July 5th, 2013:

    100% correct. And when those deficiencies in Vick’s game are laid plain in pre-season action, he’ll earn his removal from the roster.

  61. 61 knighn said at 1:33 PM on July 5th, 2013:

    Just got to hear Tommy on 97.5 (the fanatic). Sounds good, Tommy! Keep up the good work!