Secondary Thoughts
Posted: August 3rd, 2013 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 225 Comments »Let’s talk about the secondary for a bit today.
Jordan Raanan followed Kenny Phillips around practice the other day.
1:43 pm – Phillips and Sims are back on the field. I see Phillips close on some running plays. He doesn’t appear to have the same explosion he did before the knee injuries, but it’s hard to judge his effectiveness without real hitting.
2:30 pm – Practice over. Not sure what to make of where Phillips stands. Is it good that he mostly goes unnoticed? That means he’s not getting scorched deep. I’ve noticed Coleman and even Anderson a few times in training camp, but for the wrong reasons. I haven’t seen much from Chung either. Without much hitting it’s hard to see who is a sure tackler and who would be separating receivers from the ball across the middle. The preseason games are going to be make-or-break for the safeties too, just as they will be for the quarterbacks.
Jimmy Bama mentioned the other day that Phillips looks slow to him.
I guess I’m not feeling great about Phillips right now. The one hedge I’ll make is that Phillips is a veteran player. He’s got 41 NFL starts. He’s been part of a Super Bowl team (just can’t seem to remember what the team was called). Guys like him don’t always go all out in camp. He should since he’s not guaranteed a role, but some guys need a game setting to be at their best. Phillips needs to shine in the games to help his cause. I’m not optimistic, but I’d be happy to be wrong.
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You can watch the DBs doing some drills here (PE.com).
Curtis Marsh looks interesting. Someone watched practice the other day and noted how well Marsh was using his size. You can see it in that couple of drills.
Marsh was a project when he was picked and this is the year he should really start to show if he can play or not.
Marsh is 6-1, 197. He has pretty good speed. He played some each of the last 2 years, but didn’t show anything that would lead you to believe he’s close to being a reliable CB. This offseason has been critical for him. Marsh is on his third DBs coach in 3 years. Has he really made good progress? Is he ready to break through?
The good news is that John Lovett, Bill Davis and Chip Kelly have given him a clean slate. Marsh will be judged on what he does, not his draft status or what happened in the past. Davis likes big DBs and Marsh does have good size. Davis might be able to find a way to use him.
Another interesting DB is Eddie Whitley. He is 6-0, 188. Whitley is a S/CB tweener. The Eagles are trying to develop him into a slot corner. I think the goal would be to have him available when going against teams who use big WRs in the slot. As good as Brandon Boykin is, you don’t like a 5-9, 185 DB going against Calvin Johnson. Whitley is a no-name guy, but Davis found a way to use big DBs in Arizona. Matt Ware played his best football for Davis. Ware was also a S/CB tweener that Davis used creatively.
The focus is on the big names, but the coaches are looking at everyone. They are experimenting with different combinations, trying to identify which players look good on an individual basis, but also which groups work well together. The 2012 secondary played like a bunch of individuals. That can’t happen again. The Eagles need to find DBs that can play as a group.
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Here is your update on former Eagles DBs. Enjoy.
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Jimmy Bama is a complete moron. And thank god for that. Go check out his post on DeSean Jackson and Damaris Johnson. You’ll be cracking up at his artwork on this one. Imagine if Picasso, Einstein and Trey Parker were rolled into one. True greatness. I’m especially fond of the sock.
_
The quote from CK may be telling. He said he would love 5 Megatrons. Could that mean he is looking at 5 slots for the WR’s? Some of the thoughts on the message boards are thinking in the 6 range.
Maybe they will go 5 WR / 4 TE instead of the 6 WR / 3 TE. Maybe the 6th WR is fighting the 4th TE for the final spot. Maybe Momah will be the hybrid WR/TE. Ertz has been getting looks split out. Maybe that will be his role.
There will be 4 TEs.
I’m now wondering if he keeps 5 TEs, with the idea that Ertz will be used like a WR on a regular basis.
Who do you think would have the best shot at being the 5th TE? My guess would be Carrier but I know I saw in someone’s practice notes Shaw was making some plays as well
I’m with you Tommy. He will frequently use Ertz like a WR. He loves the guy.
We might as well not even think of Ertz as a TE, ATleast for the 1st half of the 2013 season because I expect him to slot function as a wideout….It’s pretty obvious from practice that he isn’t ready to supplant Celek as a TE(because his blocking won’t hold up)…It’s all about the blocking with him. Once it gets on par, he should supplant Celek when we are in 1TE sets, but the earliest that would happen is bye week…Just the way Ertz uses his body to keep his defender on his back during short slant routes will be very valuable to us as a WR on 3rd down…
…
I’m getting Antsy to get Arrelius Benn in pads and see where he is at..
…
MOmah has had a few big days recently, hopefully the light bulb went on for him, and he is ready to constantly build off it…He is a very good interview when the camera is in his face. Comfortable, articulate, sounds like a veteran. ST will be the key for Momah. Really hoping he can carve out a ST niche for himself so that we can afford to continue developing him as a WR..
…
Any word yet on what’s up with the Patriots practices? will we be “Thumping” or tackling to the ground? I really do not want us tackling to the ground at practice with another team, who couldn’t care less about not injuring our guys
Who is the 4th TE? What about 5th? Harbor hasn’t stood out at any point that I have seen. Can you justify keeping him as your 4th? Igwenagu has only stood out from the descriptions in a negative way. I definitely agree keeping 4 TEs makes sense based on what CK wants out of his TEs, but I’m not sure if there is a player who will earn that spot.
Tommy how about David Sims? He played good in the Saints game last year especially since it was his first start. I have him as my dark-horse in the safety competition.
Sims has a chance. He’s gotten reps with the 1’s.
Literally everyone has a chance at Safety:
Patrick Chung
Nate Allen
Kenny Phillips
Colt Anderson
Earl Wolff
David Sims
Kurt Coleman
4 or 5 will be kept. Some duo will get starting jobs. Need to see PS games to figure out who.
Very true. I mean except for Coleman he’s a virtual lock to make it. He’s a playmaker 🙂
Tommy,
Have you heard much about Wolff… standing out good or bad?
Also, with Chip Kelly’s style of practice and training camp… with so much going on at once… do you feel it is harder for the media guys at practice to cover as many players as in years past in a given practice?
billy Davis, and Howie are both Team Sims….
What makes you say that?
Howie traded for him, Davis was at Cleveland with him….familiarity always helps
ohh true i forgot about that.
Imagine if Namdi had been what we thought he was… Talk about DBs makes me sad.
Dude, I’m still trying to forget what we saw!!!!!
Kenny Phillips should be the best of this otherwise mediocre safety group, but the fact that he hasn’t yet seized the job makes me think he’s going to end up like Oshiomogo Atogwe. I have a feeling we’re going to be looking for safeties in next year’s draft. I was pissed when the Ravens took Elam and the Jaguars took Cyprien. The guy we missed out on in free agency was Bernard Pollard.
I really liked Cyprien coming out of the draft, even if never played any big name talent. That kid flew around everywhere and made constant plays on tape. I was also super pissed when the Jags took him. You have to wonder if the Eagles would have grabbed him if both he and Ertz were on the board.
No chance, it was Ertz all the way.
From what little we know of Chip, my bet is he still takes Ertz. Tight End is one of the most important positions in his scheme. Don’t get me wrong. I liked the Ertz pick a lot. I think he’s going to become a top 5 tight end in the NFL. His route running is that good. I was just bummed that we weren’t able to FINALLY fix the safety position after all these years.
I thought Ertz was so good that it was a waste of time to even talk about him leading up to the draft. I thought he was a definite 1st round pick, and that obviously #4 was too high for him, so I didn’t spend a single moment even thinking about Ertz…so to get him in the 2nd round for me was very exciting.
Relax….Remember how horrible dEmeco Ryan looked last offseason?
I’m not worried about the CBs but the safeties look like they’re going to be awful for another year. They should have cut bait on Allen years ago and reports that Wolff didn’t know his own team’s schemes don’t look good. The safeties that succeed in the NFL get it done between the ears. I agree that Chung, Anderson, and Coleman are backups but they’re the best guys they have right now because they’ve squandered draft picks on the position and not acquired a legit starter.
Bad safety play is a problem around the entire league. I don’t think there are any elite safeties left with Polamalu and Reed being over the hill and Berry and Thomas yet to become true game changers. I would say there is probably 10 or so good safeties and the remaining 54 starters are average to below average.
Jarius Byrd…True Game Changer and future Eagle lol
Still league wide it’s probably the position with the most JAG’s starting
So there is a chance that Boykin and Marsh could be our starting corners. Obviously this would be great for the team to have the two young guys win the jobs. My question is would it be another situation like 2011 where your two starting corners are so different that you have to split coverages into two halves of the field, i.e. Cover 2 to Boykins side and Pressman to Marsh’s?
I think if those two win the job it’ll be because they can play in the schemes the coaches have called. They’re not making the huge free-agent money Nnamdi and Asante were.
Before people get bent out of shape about Phillips, remember that everyone thought the Texans sold us a “lemon” in Demeco last summer, who clearly was just going through the motions during camp/preseason, trying to preserve his body…heck for all we know, the coaches might have told Kenny, worry about your body, if you are healthy you will have a spot….So while I agree with Tom,
there is a chance, that like Meco, Phillips just goes through the motions in preseason..
Football tonight!
I know it’s the Cowboys, and I know it’s preseason, but a fix is a fix, dammit.
Wow, I completely forgot….OMG, Football is Back!!!!
Seems team has a dark cloud over it now. Eagles need Pats in town. That will help everyone..including the fans. Great practice notes…keep em coming…
A non-Eagles fan, buddy of mine suggested that the Eagles have “shot themselves in the foot” during training camp the past few years: dream team, dynasty, Reid’s son, and now Rileygate.
Apparently it was discussed on Mike and Mike or Jim Rome as well.
I asked him what he was suggesting and he said 1) the Eagles are cursed and 2) the Eagles have a knack for acquiring high profile guys like Young and Vick.
My stance is that the Eagles personnel wise are no different than any other team in the league. And though we didn’t discuss this, I feel the team has good leadership (but maybe I’m way wrong on that…)
My thought was that the Philly media is incredibly smothering and intense, that’s why there’s always stories. I also made the point that Eagles news has no reason to become national news,net it always does despite having never won a SB and being 4-12 last year.
I’d love to hear thoughts about this. Do the Eagles being all this trouble on themselves somehow? Do we acquire bad apples? Are we cursed? Or are the Eagles simply a high profile, big market team?
The media in this city is pretty much a Joke!!
It is easy to feel we’re cursed. Just think back to the Fog Bowl. How does the NFL play a game when players can’t see?
The Eagles have acquired some high profile players that do bring extra attention. And the media loves to cover the Eagles anyway. When things go wrong, that just takes it to the next level.
That was my point when TO was here. Media would keep pressing him…question after question…then finally on question 104 he would say something dumb. Bam! Gold Jerry! Gold! I don’t think Cooper is a bad seed. Doesn’t mean I liked what he did. I hope he and the team learn and get stronger from it.
Wait…M&m/Rome are still on the air?
Whitley is an interesting wildcard. 6’0 191, really not physical enough for safety in a scheme with interchangeable safeties, but 4.39 speed (1.49 10 yard split) says he can cover some ground. He’ll have to show some smooth hips to handle the slot.
Sims physically is a clone of Colt, a few pounds heavier, .1 of a second faster, the difference is Sims can play safety, Colt is basically a ST specialist. So if Sims shows some ST skills he’ll win a tie.
Marsh showed some flashes last year, but was pretty much buried, and I’m sure the coaching confusion in the secondary didn’t help his development. This is about when you’d expect a project to blossom, and so far in camp he’s stepped up. Has the physical skills to excel, has to master the position.
Some reporters have been ranting and raving about Whitley recently…He is like the forgotten man in our secondary….would love to see these coaches get something out of players that the last regime couldn’t!!!
[…] Secondary Thoughts – Tommy Lawlor, Iggles BlitzTommy talks about the Eagles secondary, including Kenny Phillips and Curtis Marsh. […]
Clifton Gaethers did to my knowledge, his first interview as an Eagle(McPhereson)…Clifton refused to take his helmet off for the interview(Ricky williams style) because he was “woofin” aka needs a haircut. Look at Big Sexy getting all Vain!!!
…
the man sounds like a du on a Mission right now. What I really liked about this interview, is he sounds like someone who looks at his career til this point as a failure, and is Hungry to make his mark in this league…He acknowledged that with him it’s all about getting down to the right pad level, and he said all his past coaches have been trying to get that out of him, but that he is sooo impressed at how coach Azz is developing him…He also talked about how this was the first offseason he really used his family’s nfl knowledge as a resource, and its showing with the way he looks, and the way he is playing..
….
if this Kat can turn into a guy who consistently can contribute to our rotation, that’s a BIG addition(Pun intended?….Duh!!!)
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