The Kaepernick Rumor

Posted: September 17th, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 125 Comments »

Adam Schefter reported on Sunday that the Eagles were lined up to deal a 2nd round pick for QB Colin Kaepernick, but instead turned that down so they could focus on drafting QB Russell Wilson in the 3rd round.

More than a few fans were irate at this report.

I’m more curious than irate.

It  is possible the Eagles talked to the Niners about Kaepernick, but the Eagles had pick 46 and pick 51. SF had invested pick 36 in Kaepernick the year before. The Eagles weren’t going to deal both 2’s. Were they going to throw in other picks? Was SF looking to dump Kaepernick and lose the value?

Seems fishy.

The part about focusing on Russell Wilson in the 3rd round is utterly ridiculous to me. If the Eagles made draft plans around Wilson, they would have taken him with pick 59, which they got when they moved down from 51 in a deal with the Packers. You don’t build a draft plan around a 3rd round player. If you like someone that much, you take them in the 1st or 2nd round, especially as a QB.

I have a hard time believing this report as stated.

Feels like an agent or front office member fed a story to Schefter. The story may be based in reality, but trumped up beyond that. I could definitely see the Eagles calling SF about Kaepernick. I find it hard to believe Jim Harbaugh would be willing to part with someone he drafted so quickly, unless he was getting a major return.

I’ll let you know if I hear anything about this, but I wouldn’t get worked up over it.

We do know that Andy Reid liked Russell Wilson a lot. That’s the guy he wanted in the 3rd round, but Seattle jumped up and grabbed him. The Eagles then moved on to their next target, Nick Foles.

Lots of coulda, shoulda, woulda going on here. Will be interesting to look back in a decade and judge things.

_


  • livingonapear

    Eh, even if this is all true, there’s no guarantee that either player thrives under Reid anymore than Foles has/hasn’t.

    • Mark Saltveit

      Right. Kaepernick in a West Coast Offense probably just sucks. “Stop running, damn it!”

    • TommyLawlor

      There is a lot of truth in what you say.

      Kaep thrived in SF with a good OL and balanced attack. Putting him in Andy’s pass-happy attack behind Bell/Dunlap would not have been ideal.

      • Anders

        Same with Russell Wilson, how many games would he have won with our defense and having to throw 50+ times per game?

        • Media Mike

          Makes one further appreciate McNabb’s career. Especially considering the points allowed by the “good” D we had in playoff ending losses in the 2000-04, 06, and 08 seasons.

          • Anders

            yea McNabb was much better than people give him credit for.

          • GEagle

            In fairness, when McNabb was really good, he had a heckuva supporting cast…we were stacked everywhere except WR…..but Donovan is the best Qb we ever had, I don’t think anyone sells his game short, we just hate his personality….I can’t stand seeing his face or hearing him talk, but when he had the Helmet with Wings on, I respected and appreciated the hell out of him, and I get the impression that most people feel the same

          • P_P_K

            The one year he had a true #1 receiver, he showed just how good he was.

        • BlindChow

          Yeah, in Seattle he barely threw at all his first few games.

      • ohitsdom

        Kap is not pleased with your spelling:

        https://twitter.com/Kaepernick7/status/376413902411534336

        • Anders

          Why is his twitter handle Kaepernick7 then?

    • SteveH

      its fun to dream of kaep in the chip kelly offense though.

  • westy36

    This doesn’t have anything to do with this topic, but did anybody else notice the interaction between Cox and Rivers at the 11:29 mark in the 4th quarter? Rivers was on the ground and Cox was standing in front of him and I guess Rivers thought Cox was trying to help him up and Cox just pulled his hand away and Rivers fell back down. I thought it was really funny to see in real time.

  • T_S_O_P

    I think it is clear the AR really really liked Wilson. f this is about there being a difference of opinion on Wilson’s value, i.e. Kaep went in the 2nd, Wilson’s value must be close, from coach Reid versus trusting the board and he’d be there in 3, then I can believe that.

    • Anders

      Many people had Wilson as 2nd round talent, but downgraded due to his height.

      I think Wilson having modest success (right now he looks like the 4th best QB from that class, he just play with the best defense in the NFL), really helps Manziel in terms of height not been an issue.

  • shah8

    Remember when I said that all QBs who credibly have NFL measurements for the position, like arm, size, and doesn’t act like an idiot on the field will be picked in the top 50? Like Manuel?

    Kaepernick was drafted that high, like Brock Osweiler, out of straight NFL suitability, and Kaepernick has better mobility and has shown more in big games. I actually remember the classic Wolfpack Broncos game.

    People with actual NFL grade tools at the QB position do not grow on trees. Anybody with tools and aren’t JP Losman, Kyle Boller, Blaine Gabbert–who all had tools but lackluster production in college. Kaepernick consistently improved in his accuracy in college and showed up in big games.

    Kaepernick was simply raw. At the end of the day, he’s basically a top of the first caliber physical talent. There was no way in hell that Harbaugh would actually trade Kaepernick. No more than Shanahan would trade RGIII, even if he didn’t pay a kings ransom.

    This sort of thinking is a big part of why I think it’s inevitable that Joe Webb will see an extended look at starter when people are tired of pretending that he isn’t a QB. That may be at another team though. Still straight company line about how Ponder is the unquestioned starter. I suspect Management does not quite get that this has become an untenable stink in Minneapolis. Or they don’t care. Who knows.

    • Anders

      Agree Kaepernick had all the tools. It is the same reason 3 teams have flirted with Tebow.

      It is also the reason why guys like Braxton Miller or Stephen Morris has great chance to be top 100 picks even tho there throwing motion needs a little help.

      Also like you, I think I was higher on Manuel than most.

      • GEagle

        people can say what they will about crazy Eagles fans…but ATleast we didn’t all rally in a Jaxonville parking lot yesterday to have a Sign Tebow Rally…..how pathetic is that fanbase? Lol

        • anon

          They complained about the JAX game not getting blacked out. that’s terrible.

          • GEagle

            Wait…they wanted their teams game to be blacked out?

          • anon

            Yup, they wanted to watch the manning bowl. The local station had to issue an apology for not blacking out.

          • GEagle

            Wow…just Wow!!! They are lucky Im not an owner, cuz I can be spiteful and Vindictive…I would Turn that franchise into The Alaskan King Crabs faster then those idiots can say Tim Tebow

    • Insomniac

      Well yea you’re always going to take a risk with the physically gifted but not refined guys. It’s why the Giants drafted JPP, why the Bills took a chance on EJ Manuel, and why the Panthers took a shot on Cam Newton. I don’t need to mention Tebow do I? This is a gambling league and you’ll get burned by the choices like Tavaris Jackson or…Mike Mamulas.

      • http://abigbuttandasmile.com/ A Big Butt and a Smile

        Agree with all of that but disagree on the Cam front. He was a winner at ever level. Combined with his size, taking him was a no brainer. Unfortunately for him Ron Rivera is his coach.

    • Weapon Y

      The only counter argument, one that I don’t agree with myself, is that Alex Smith played really well with Harbaugh in his first year. Harbaugh might have originally intended to one day replace Smith with Kaepernick, but then entertained the idea of keeping Smith for good and dealing Kaepernick to make the rest of the team better. Again, I think there are some holes in that argument, but I do consider it a slight possibility.

  • Media Mike

    Well after Sunday night becomes more of Kaep’s normal effort, the Niners might have wished they did trade him away.

    • TommyLawlor

      Not likely to happen. SEA might have best D in the league now and playing at their place is tough. Kaep is very gifted QB who is going to play at a high level most of the time.

      • GEagle

        I get so jealous at the home field advantage Seattles fans give its team….Pains me to not see a similar rambunctious crowd at the corporate Linc…

        I will be at Thursdays “Santa Clause is coming to town” Bowl, and that place better be rowdy

  • Anders

    Tommy, is it possible you could talk about the difference between a 2-gap and 1-gap 3-4 and what the responsibilities is in the run game, where the pressure has to come etc.? I think it would clear some confusing from a lot of readers here.

    • anon

      There was a lot of talk about this in the pre-season, maybe he can link back to the archives or maybe there’s something on Eagles 24/7.

      • Anders

        most of the pre season was about the 4/3 under

  • Daniel Miller

    I don’t buy this for a second. Kaep is Harbaugh’s guy. He drafted him and wanted to groom him. No way he was on the trading block.

  • deg0ey

    I wonder how people would’ve felt about this trade at the time if it had actually happened. As I recall, people were absolutely screaming for a LB in the second round and if they’d traded both second round picks (or even a second and a third) for what would’ve likely been billed as ‘a running QB who couldn’t even beat out Alex Smith’ while Andy Reid once again neglects the most obvious hole at LB? Don’t imagine it would’ve gone down too well with much of the fanbase.

  • eagleyankfan

    eh – don’t care on rumors of the past. Is the next “rumor” a report on how the Eagles were going to grab Brady but the Pats swooped in and grabbed him?

    • BlindChow

      One thing we’ve learned is, the Eagles squander a lot of talent. Just because players turned into studs for other teams doesn’t mean they’d be studs if developed by the Eagles.

  • Insomniac

    Heck with our luck in the 2nd round, I wouldn’t have minded getting Kaep or even drafting Wilson with our second 2nd round pick that year. What could we have missed? Vinny Curry barely playing or Russel Wilson going through growing pains with that o-line?

    • Anders

      Well based on our luck, wouldnt both end up been huge busts?

      • Insomniac

        I still have hope for Vinny Curry…when he gets to play. We’re still just doomed in the 2nd round aren’t we?

        • GEagle

          I don’t know about you but I love the Ertz pick, Kendricks pick, and Curry seems like a legit 2nd round talent to me. His explosion off the line of scrimmage and strong use of his hands seems like a worthy second round talent to me, and it’s still not a given that he will be worthless/deactivated all year long.

          I didn’t over react at all to his first two deactivations(although I didn’t agree with it)…But I don’t care what ST issues we have, short week against pass happy Andy, if we don’t value his fresh legs in this game, then we have a problem,.,.and if he isn’t activated at some point in the first 5 weeks, then I will be disgusted by the handling of him..

          if you are trying to trade him it means that you didn’t value the offers you got for him in the PS when his value was obviously at its peak…deactivating him all season does not increase his value..Saying “all he can do is rush the passer” is like saying “all a guy can do is catch TDs”….Don’t care what base scheme you run, a pass rusher always has a place on every defense, and it’s one of the most valuable roles in all of football

          • BreakinAnklez

            I want to see Curry but being solely a pass rusher doesn’t always have a place…see Babin, Jason. If Curry is just selling out to the QB and not following assignments we get burned.

          • GEagle

            Seattle Seahawks top defense finds a way to utilize guys just like Curry…

            Also defenses these days have a bunch of different packages…Even if you are a 3-4 team you still have 4-2-5, 3-3-5, 5-2 packages…

            I also don’t understand this bad run defender Myth..he was fine as a run defender in College. he may be a bad Run defender when you line him up as a 3 or 5 technique in a 3-4 scheme…..but I saw plenty of times where we lined up with a 4man line, and I see no reason why he would be this mythical run liability when we go to a 4 man line..

            Any good Coordinator should find some Role for a top 50 talent in today’s defense when they are all using a bunch of different schemes and formations with all kinds of sub packages

          • shah8

            Bruce Irvin is much faster and fluid than Curry.

  • Tumtum

    Is it bad that I think Kap is way over rated? How about that I don’t think Wilson is special? I want a special guy. Wilson has the mental make up and I could end up being wrong but I think a mjority of his success can be attributed to that supporting cast. I hate the way Kap throws the ball. He has no touch on intermediate passes. Has he ever shown us a deep ball? Don’t get me wrong its a rifle but where is touch to fit it over a LB and into tight coverage.

    I would just hate to get stuck with a Romo for 10 years…

    • Anders

      I agree, I like Kaepernick better than Wilson, but both have the luxury of playing with great Ds (tho Niners D might already be in decline) and ball control offenses.

      Right now I think Vick is a better QB than those two. I mean look what Vick is doing so far in an offense there is based on the run and he does not even have the luxury of a good D

      • GEagle

        I know Anquan is slow, but could you imagine him battling for Vick and blocking down field opposite of Desean?

        • anon

          and he wouldn’t have to play against sherman twice a year

          • GEagle

            Dude would Manhandle NFC East CBs…I don’t buy the Claiborne hype yet

      • ACViking

        C’mon. VIck has 10 years of experience. As for the defensive problems here, I don’t think that influences Kelly’s approach one bit. On the flip side, having a great defense has to affect the offensive game-planning in SF and Seattle.

        But Kaepernick in this offense would be dynamite. Big time dynamite . . . but only because Harbaugh has turned him into a fast riser. Don’t know what he’d be if he was abused last year in green.

        As for Wilson — hard to argue that he’s not the runt of any “Top 10 QB litter.”

        To me, he compares nicely to Fran Tarkenton. All Tarkenton did was complete passes, make plays, and — when he finally had a good defense to play with — get his team to the Super Bowl 3 times in 5 years . . . unfortunately, his Vikings played against three of five greatest dynasties of the post-Lombardi era.

        At that point, Tarkenton was a 12-year veteran. Wilson’s just a 2nd year guy. But the longer the Seahawks defense can remain a Top 10 group, the more good chance Wilson will have to get that team to the SB.

        • Anders

          Well all we heard this spring and summer was how that even as a 10 year veteran that Vick was a terrible QB.
          Kaepernick would look great in this offense and I think Kelly would have been able to harness that power as well.

    • anon

      Agree. I don’t even know who SEA’s receivers are.I would love to have Seattle’s defense, could you even imagine? Wonder how they built that, maybe we can at least grab a secondary coach and give him a pay raise.

      • Anders

        First Pete Carroll is a secondary wizard, second get lucky and draft a guy like Sherman in the 5th round.

        • D3FB

          You mean instead of Curtis Marsh earlier in the same draft? *throws things in anger

  • ian_no_2

    I think this story has very little chance of being true, like in the 0% range. Jim Harbaugh drafted Kaepernick knowing that he had a tremendously high ceiling but needed more time to develop than most top QB picks. Harbaugh didn’t begrudgingly make Kaepernick the starter due to injury or starter ineffectiveness – he inserted Kaepernick the second he felt his was ready, in his second year, when his starting quarterback (Smith) had a 100 QB rating. National columnists were openly saying that if the curious move didn’t work it would cost Harbaugh his job, despite one of the top rookie coaching campaigns in NFL history. So this indicates to me that the Niners weren’t entering into any discussions about trading Kaepernick, especially as they had spent a year coaching him.

    Andy Reid did say the day of the draft that he had Wilson rated ahead of Foles. Curiously, they drafted Vinny Curry despite having little inclination to play him, a lack of inclination passed on the Kelly regime. Kendricks (over Bobby Wagner) was blamed on Juan Castillo on the same day. Whatever purpose is served by drafting QB in the 3rd round would be the purpose behind drafting Wilson.. this is either a matter of priorities or not anticipating the draft board well.

    Speaking of Reid, Alex Smith, and QB trades with the Eagles – Reid’s story that he wanted Foles for KC but the Eagles had him untouchable strikes me as completely false. My problem was why say that if it’s false and my answer is: Jim Harbaugh used insults as a way to motivate Alex Smith (openly bidding on other QBs to the point that Smith publicly complained) and it apparently worked. But trading for Smith, a 1st pick who has skills for that draft position an has so slowly made it to his prime, makes much more sense than Foles based on the skills involved, and I don’t think that Kelly would have made Foles untouchable based on his offensive scheme.

    • anon

      I don’t think they were trading Foles, I think given VIck’s injury history, and the 2012/11 seasons generally Kelly really wanted to have some insurance in case Vick didn’t work. I think this is why they drafted Barkely in the 4th, a pick that may ultimately be a waste.I just don’t think Chip had the time, pre-draft to evaluate the talent. Think having a safety net is why Casey was picked in FA but isn’t playing.

  • A Roy

    And we just missed in trading for Brian Urlacher in 2005 !!!! A true Philadelphia fan would ask what the 1972 Phillies’ record would have been if they hadn’t traded for Steve Carlton.

    • GEagle

      We missed out on trading for Anquan and Fitzgerald a couple times…

  • Sean Scheinfeld

    Kaepernick and Wilson are both terrific examples of just how much a young QB’s success is dependent on the strength of the rest of the team. They both took already solid, and, in Kaepernick’s case, very good, teams to another level of success. What’s so remarkable about Luck and RG3’s performance last year is that they carried otherwise awful teams to the playoffs. I sometimes which quarterbacks we decided were busts were really just victims of circumstance. Was Tim Coucb that bad or did the early pummeling he took and total lack of skill players doom him from the start?

    • Stormbringer

      Tim Couch was that bad. Derek Anderson did much better with the same people. He’d have looked even worse but Chris Palmer put every effort into propping him and adjusting to make him look better.

      Plus, he was a horrible leader.

  • Rage114

    This is ridiculous. If any team thought either of those two players would be the players they turned out to be, they would have been first round draft picks.

    Now many discussions are there between GMs about players that no one ever heard of?

    • Anders

      I guess a gazillion. This really smell of Banner

  • Anders

    http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/Eagle-Eye-In-The-Sky-Who-Do-You-Cover/cdf55711-0f1e-40eb-adb7-ae53562cf761

    Eagles fans are a spoiled bunch. How many teams homepage have a guy like Duffy? Or get Caplan and Gosell to break down stuff?

  • GEagle

    Tom: Any idea where our Front Office had EJ Manuel rated? I was a Manuel Non believer…showing some promise tho

  • GEagle

    Sal Pal is on TV spouting off about how Andy Reid has been a mentor to chip Kelly, elaborating that Chip has been leaning on Andy all offseason texting him for advice..
    ,,
    Go away Sal Pal….as excited as I am for Thursday, the national media coverage is already unbearable

    • Crus57

      Sal Pal is permanently unbearable. When he dies they will have to use a forklift for his coffin, he’s that unbearable.

      • P_P_K

        The black bears in the forest behind my house have asked that you not desecrate their reputation by bringing them into a discussion about Sal Pal.

        • Crus57

          Any chance of bringing them into a personal discussion with Sal Pal? like.. face to face?

  • Anders

    Lol, I just realised that Ha Ha Clinton-Dix’s (the safety from Bama) real first name is not Ha Ha, but Hasean. He would fit right in with Lesean and Desean and his last name with right in with Cox and Johnson (yes 5 year old mind :P)

    • GEagle

      Sounds like a match made in heaven to me…Going to be interesting to see what defensive positions they add in the draft, and which they target in FA….when is the deadline for contract extensions so we can really find out what next years free agent market looks like…

      I know we want to build through the draft, and get homegrown stars…but I wonder how we work the offseason if we sneak into the offseason this year and Vick stays healthy(lol I know I know)…

      if the Eagles win 6 or 7 games then you think we probably stay the course, try drafting well, and add these young fringe players in FA, who are just signing their second contract..The Bradley Fletcher types who we hope will flourish in their second contracts….But what if this team Gels into a better then expected bunch and we win 9 games and sneak into the playoffs? would we stay the course in the second offseason, or would we try to really compete right away and try to sign some established older stars like a Peanut Tilmen to play opposite of Cary Williams removing one of our many draft needs?

      The answer in my mind probably will be decided by the QB situation. If Vick can magically stay healthy, and play like a top QB forcing us to bring him back, then ouldnt you have to go into win now mode and take advantage of what window we have left to try and win with him?
      ..
      I would be in Heaven seeing Peanut across from Cary, with Boykin in the slot and Fletcher adding quality depth to the secondary

      • Anders

        I think after NA, we are going to stay away from overpriced veterans.

        • GEagle

          I think it’s a mistake to “stay away” from anything. letting past failures scare you away from future decisions will just Lear to missed opportunities to improve…You can learn from your past failures like NNamdi..see the signs that you missed when evaluating him that led to the mistake and try not to repeat it….
          ..
          but I think any generalizations are wrong. You can fail just as easily when targeting young players as you can with older players. Not signing older players takes away an opportunity to improve…Runyan was an older player that proved to be a great investment..

          I’m not ok with any generalizations. Evaluate each player on a case by case basis. NNamdi has nothing to do with Peanut Tilmen or any other CB that will ever hit free agency…
          ..
          Normally I agree with the strategy that we used this offseason…Draft well, sign players going into their second contract…but Mike Vick muddies the equation. If playing for Chip makes him consistently a top QB and Chips system protects him and he magically stays healthy and we end up making him our starting B for another two years…then you need to push more chips to the middle…If we are going to invest another two years in Vick then you can’t just be drafting young players and waiting for them to develope. half won’t develope in time to help Vick win with what window he has left…You are going to have to find immediate improvement in some areas

          • Anders

            Runyan was 26 when we signed him. There is a big difference between signing a guy at the age of 26 and signing one at the age of 33.

            It has nothing to do with ability but everything to do with age.
            I want my FA to be at least 2 years under the age of 30 if we are giving them a lot of money.
            A guy like Byrd is fine because he will be 28 next year, but a 34 year old CB? no thanks.

          • GEagle

            Isn’t Peanut 31?

            If we are going to re sign a 33yr old QB, how can we thumb our nose at every player over 30?

            if you get Vick to stay healthy and play like a top QB why bring him back if you aren’t going to try to win a championship with what little window he would still have left?

          • Anders

            TIllman is 33 right now.

            This is at least a 3 year plan, so why overpay for a guy there might not even be good in our system? While we are trying to win, we are also trying to build a foundation for the future and you do not do that by paying a 34 year old CB big money.

          • GEagle

            if he is 33, then I agree with you…thought he was only 31
            ..
            but for me this discussion is more of how we will build the next offseason if we are going to go with Vick and less about Charles Tillman…and if you are going to with Vick for another two seasons, then I don’t see how we can afford to just stay the course and not push more of our chips into the middle of the table…
            ..
            now, if Chip wants to rebuild and go with a young QB, this discussion changes and I would see no reason to even look at players who have hit the age of 30

          • Anders

            We can still upgrade via FA and go with Vick. That is not mutual exclusive. Problem is if you go after to many expensive old guys, your window become very narrow. We tried that in 2011 and it didnt work (combined with terrible drafting)

  • Iskar36

    There were rumors earlier in the offseason that AR also wanted to trade for Alex Smith while he was coaching the Eagles. I wonder if there is any connection between those two rumors.

    • Anders

      That is not a rumor, that is something AR said openly.

      • Iskar36

        You’re right. So to rephrase, I wonder if there is a connection to AR wanting to trade for Alex Smith and the rumor that he and the FO also wanted to trade for Kaepernick

  • GEagle

    obviously our defense while I think it will prove more promising then the doom and gloom consensus is going to be the weak Link.

    But this offense, is mostly inherited by Chip, only really adding Lane, Ertz and Maehl so far. Curious to see how many assets he takes away this offseason from the defense and invests in the offense. I expect the defense to have the majority of our assets dumped into improving it, but Chip won’t just remain stagnant on Offense..Curious to see what upgrade on offense he feels are neccessary to make:

    I haven’t jumped on the Herremans doom n gloom wagon yet, but I do recognize that it’s something to definitely keep an eye on. You might be able to get a few more years out of Todd, but at some point you need to draft and start grooming his replacement(..what I would do to get Kyle Long in Philly,,,sigh)

    Celek isn’t chopped Liver, he is a very good blocker and has big play capability, but watching him in this offense I can’t help but wonder what would happen if he was fast. You can’t ax Celek and replace him with an Ertz type who is a project as a blocker….but you have to think that Chip would covet a guy like Lyeria who is a better athlete and already a pretty solid blocker(former player). I’m hoping Seferian Jenkins has a Monster year and pushes Lyeria back to round 2.

    WR: Financially there is silver linking to the Maclin injury. It would have cost a serious investment at the end of the year to retain him. Now we can do right by him, keep him in Philly for ATleast another year on a modest contract..and then what? Maclin will be coming off a knee injury, how much can he really improve his value in his first year back? You could end up getting Maclin on two 1yr deals costing much less then it would have cost had he never been injured and been racking up yards left and right in this offense.
    ..
    I love Rejus Benn and thought he could have been huge in this offense. if we couldn’t count on him in June, we definitely can’t count on him next June. Avant isn’t getting any faster or more explosive, at some point Kelly will want a big body explosive possession WR..
    ….
    And we still have no idea what Chip really thinks of our two young QBs…and even if he thinks the world of both of them, can he really sit there and pass on Marriotta if he a chance to draft him?

    Tough to argue with making any of these investments to improve our offense, however each investment on offense takes assets away from improving our defense, so it’s really going to be interesting to see how they work the second offseason. year 1 was clearly about laying a sound foundation both on the field and in the locker room, needing to turn over so much of the roster..we had such a need for Quantity that we had to sacrifice on Quality(although it wasn’t the most quality filled market)….The hope is that young players and new players develope and Gel, lessening the need for quantity, allowing us to add higher quality…

    I want to go back and look at the first and second offseason in Seattle when Carrol arrived..but what year in San Fran was the equivalent of our year 1 offseason under Kelly? So I can go back and look at how the niners built the team in their first and second offseasons….

    • mksp

      I think Mariota ends up being a top-10 pick. Maybe top-5. Eagles probably won’t have a chance unless we trade up. Which I wouldn’t want to do considering the state of our D.

    • D3FB

      Starting caliber guards are high devalued. Can be found in mid to late rounds.

      • GEagle

        absolutely…but if you want a Jonathon Cooper/Kyle Long type of athlete, to plug into an offensive Juggarnaut from day one, it’s going to cost you a high pick….if you think you can get another 2 years out of Herremans then you can throw 5th round darts at Guard for a year or two, and hope you get lucky and one proves to be the answer by the time that Todd is Truley done…

        but if at the end of the year you think, Todd can’t be the starter next year, drafting a guard in the 5th round and asking him to start from day one is risky business

        • Anders

          yea but QB, WR, S, CB, OLB, NT all should have higher value for us in next years draft

    • Mac

      Man I’ve been on the Herremans downside train for over a year.

      • GEagle

        It’s been noticeable for sure. Guard is a very different position then Tackle so I think the hope was yes he was declining as a tackle but maybe he had a few years left at guard…so far, he has probably been the weak link, but not playing anywhere near bad enough to be seriously concerned. He clearly will require double team assistance at times, but it’s not the drastic issue that say Safety is….hopefully he gets comforted at guard, gets reanimated aft the injury and we end up not needing a guard for the next two, three years, but thats the hopeful optimist in me…We have needs!! The longer Herremans can be an adequate band aid the better….how bad was Watkins that Herremans struggles and we cut him?

        • Mac

          Yeah, I wish I had more faith in him, and he does look better a G than RT… Hopefully he plays a good game thursday

  • Ark87

    Anyone getting heated over this needs to keep the context of the 2012 off season in mind. Kap was a guy with big upside but a major project in the wco. There were (and still are) doubts that Kap would ever “get it” in a traditional complex nfl offense. Wilson was a guy with the x factors and a major physical limitation that people weren’t sure would work in the nfl. We opted to persue Wilson to sit behind Vick and learn, not sell the farm and go all in on, franchise qb or bust.

  • GEagle

    I thought as soon as we lost a game the National media would be waiting to throw us in the gutter..Interesting to see Florios rating. Even if he is an idiot, it’s still nice to see the Eagles ahead of the rest of the division.. according to Florio:

    #15 Eagles just lost to #13 Chargers
    ..
    #16 Cowboys…

    #22 Giants

    #26 Skins

    even if it’s an idiot who has us at the top of the division, I’ll take it!

    • P_P_K

      Even an idiot’s broken watch tells the correct time twice a day.

      • ACViking

        But that’s what proves he’s the person’s lack of knowledge.

  • ACViking

    T-Law:

    The only trade in early 2012 that would have made sense is a 2nd for Alex Smith — not Kaepy. Everything about the kid — in terms of talent and sense between the ears — pointed to Harbaugh seeing a 12 carrot diamond in the rough with Kaepy.

    Smith maxed out his skill set in 2011.

    ____________

    As for Russell Wilson . . . that’s just one of those things.

    But I’d love to have been a fly on the wall regarding the conversation leading up to the draft on just WHO liked Wilson and HOW MUCH.

    I also wonder if the Eagles had a chance to spend a low-round pick or two to move up in Rd 3 to get Wilson — but chose not to do so. Probably would have cost the Eagles at least their 6th and 7th round picks or maybe both their 6th round picks — who turned out to be WR Marv McNutt and G Brandon Washington, with the 7th Rd pick being Bryce Brown. [The Dolphins, with a 3rd Rd pick two spots ahead of Seattle, moved back 6 spots in a deal with the Chargers for the Chargers 6th rounder. But for the Eagles to get the Dolphins pick would have required Miami to move back 14 spots.]

    ______________

    Speaking of the Russell Wilson and Johnny Football comparison . . .

    Wilson is a small “big” man with a very good arm. He’s 5’10.5″, 205 lbs, with a wide frame for his size. He has HUGE hands at 10.25″ (about the same as Foles). Plus, Wilson’s intangibles are excellent.

    Mr. Football is a small “small” man with a college arm. A&M lists him at 6’1″ 210lbs. I think he’s closer to just about 6′ 190lbs — if that. And his frame is like D-Jax, as opposed to Deion Lewis. JM has small hands. And some maturity issues.

    But you never know. Maybe Kelly falls in love with him. Oops. I mean Roseman.

    • Anders

      I actually think Manziel is under 6′.

      I dont get to worked up over hand size for a QB. Foles have giants hands, yet he still fumbles more than Vick with small hands. I also seen somebody say Manziel’s arm is as weak as Matt Barkley’s.

      I do think Kelly would prefer his QB to be 6’2″ at least.

      • ACViking

        Yes, on Manziel’s size. But we don’t have an official Combine measurement so I’m being generous.

        As for big hands, keep strength and size separate.

        Brett Favre was a notorious fumbler — and he’s going to Canton. But he acknowledged that having big hands helped him tremendously in late fall and winter.

        As for what Kelly wants, sure, a nice 6’2″ or 6’3″ 225 lb QB with a great arm, speed, and computer-quick mind would be great.

        Not many out there.

        How much is Roseman willing to spend to get a Taj Boyd or M-Mariotta — assuming their post-season draft evals matches their production.

        The Eagles — I don’t think — are going to go 4-12 this season. Still, it’s early, and who knows.

        But if the Eagles are selecting as an 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7 team (or anything higher), the cost to get one of the franchise QBs that presumably will be in this draft will be ULTRA expensive — leaving only scraps to rebuild this defense.

        Moreover, the teams most likely at the top of this draft will be Jacksonville, Oakland, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Minnesota, and Cleveland (though I think they’ll be closer to 7-9 than 4-12).

        Nearly every one of those teams could use “The Next Andrew Luck” at QB next year. Only Pitt could stand pat. However, Big Ben is breaking down and drafting a franchise QB, if the opportunity is there, to put on the shelf for a season or two would be hard to pass up.

        I don’t see how the Eagles, without losing 11-12 games, will have a shot at the 3-4 projected franchise QBs . . . guys who can run and throw with big-time arms. Who’s going to trade with them?

        Unless the Eagles go 6-10 or 7-9, it seems — based on the mini-sample set of 2 games — that Vick will be back next year and maybe thru 2016, too.

        • Anders

          It really depends on how many of the eligible guys come out this year.
          I dont think Oakland will take a QB, not after Pryor have actually shown something and with all the other holes on the team

        • Stormbringer

          Boyd is short for what Chip normally likes. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s only 6′ also though he does have a good arm and is a good decision maker.

          Two other guys of note, Brett Hundley from UCLA (same type of skillset as Manziel and Mariota) and a real dark horse, Stephen Morris. Morris is erratic but has great tools. If he were to reach his potential (might be really difficult as not sure if he’d had good coaching or his bad habits are already ingrained), he’d be about as good as any of them as he has a rocket arm.

          If everyone comes out, I’d say even with a 9-7 record, we’d have a shot at Hundley or Morris. Boyd and Mariota would probably be gone in the top 10.

          • Anders

            100% agree. There is also Braxton Miller and if he comes out Devin Gardner.

            Guys like Miller, Gardner and Morris might be there in the 2nd or 3rd round.

          • Stormbringer

            Yeah, I’m praying everyone (QBs) comes out this year. Normally, some of the lower ranked guys see this and stay but one can always hope. If a decent amount stay out of the draft, I think we are going to be stuck unless they ante up a ton of picks to move up. There are a lot of worse teams than us that really want a QB too and since the ‘read option’ is hot, they are likely to go for one of the more mobile QBs we’d prefer instead of the other highly ranked pocket passers like Fales or Carr who we probably wouldn’t be as interested in.

            I’m in Columbus, OH and I’ve seen Braxton a bunch. He seems to me more of an athlete playing QB than a QB (a more athletic Tebow). Maybe that is because that seems to be what Meyer wants to see in a QB or in this offense. I’m not sure how he’d be if he had to pass more often like he will in the NFL.

            From what I’ve seen of Gardner, he seems to be more towards a normal QB that happens to be an athlete and he seems to have a good arm too (more towards Kaepernick). Though if he throws another pass like he did in the ND game when he was in the grasp in the end zone he’ll probably give Chip a heart attack.

          • Anders

            I think teams wanting mobile QBs is overblown. I mean look Luck was no. 1 overall pick over RG3, Bridgewater will most likely be the no. 1 overall pick.

            Teams will take the better QB. I mean we drafted Matt Barkley as a development guy.

          • Stormbringer

            I am hoping you are 100% correct here. :-) If other teams go for Fales and Carr early it would help our chances quite a bit to get a QB Chip really likes.

            But I think if Chip is successful this year and Kaepernick and Wilson keep developing, even more teams will want that style of QB or ones with the athleticism who could run it. Also, while Luck might be a pocket passer now, he was as athletic as Cam Newton at the combine. I think Bridgewater will be the same when he’s tested (very good athlete who happens to play a more conventional style).

            I’m assuming we took Barkley more for presumed ‘value’ rather than fit. I think if he were more athletic (slightly faster with a better arm) he’d have gone much higher this year than when we got him even with poor final year and the injury.

          • Anders

            100% some team will go with Fales or Carr over a guy like Morris. I think Hundley and Mariota will be top 10 picks, but not because their running, but for there QB acumen.

          • Ark87

            Luck is surprisingly athletic, but you’re right, it’s still a league where you prefer your ability as a passer to overshadow your athleticism.

        • GEagle

          if we want to move up to get a QB, the Jets, Bills and Chargers are teams we can do business with. jets and Bills just invested in young QBs who will flash enough as rookies to force them to pass on a QB. Chargers are still trying to build a winner with Rivers..

          there are potential move up partners for us, but I’m a defensive guy so I wouldn’t want to see us go that direction…As long as we don’t take Manziel, I won’t complain(too much lol)

  • Weapon Y

    It’s one of many great “what ifs.” They would have struggled with Big Red, as most quarterbacks do, but they’d be awesome in Chip’s offense.

    • Ark87

      Big Red made a living out of drafting fools gold at qb and flipping it for value down the road. He runs a pretty QB friendly system. If you fail in an AR system as QB, you’re done (VY).

  • dandynator

    H2HS soon ?

    • ACViking

      Isn’t it: H2C

  • Anders

    I jsut read this http://mmqb.si.com/2013/09/17/johnny-manziel-nfl-future/

    Based on that, Manziel might be my perfect QB for us right after Mariota.

    • Phils Goodman

      I gotta see more arm talent before I get too revved up about JF as an NFL QB. Mariota and Hundley are still the two that capture my imagination. It’s too bad that Bridgewater will waste away in Jacksonville.

      • ACViking

        Need to have a post-pro day break down on velocity and accuracy.

        Hard to tell watching College Game Day.

        One thing is true: none of these guys has an Elway-level arm.

  • ACViking

    RE: Johnny “Big Hands” Manziel.

    I stand corrected — per scouts talking to Greg Bedard.

    http://www.phillymag.com/eagles/2013/09/17/johnny-manziel-chip-kelly-a-perfect-match/

    • GEagle

      Please No Manziel(refuse to ever refer to him as “football” again)

      • Anders

        Why not? So what a 20 year old went and had some fun?

      • ACViking

        Do you like “Big Hands”?

        Last NFL player to wear that moniker was Chargers DT Gary “Big Hands” Johnson — of the Air Coryell era.

  • Vick or Nick

    Wheres the DGR Tommy??

    • GEagle

      The people Demand it!!! JK

    • A_T_G

      See what happens when you get one out super-quick? You set up an expectation. Now we all expect our fix immediately, for ever.

      Okay, I stalled enough for you. I’m going to hit refresh every five seconds now.

  • Scott J610

    Last I looked, neither Wilson, Kaepernick, or Foles has won a Super Bowl yet.

    • GEagle

      Yeah cause Super Bowl winning QBs like Peyton are always available…why talk about trading for KAp or Wilson, when we can talk about trading for Drew Brees or Aaron Rogers? Lol

  • http://www.jamesrengland.com/ JEinOKC

    I’m not terribly disappointed by this news, even if it is 100% true. One thing the Eagles hadn’t done very well in the past couple of years was “coach up” their projects. Maybe QB is a different position with Reid’s track record, but I’m not sold. Sure it’d be great to have today’s Kaepernick or Wilson, but I’m kinda glad for them that they ended up in environments where they could actually succeed.

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