Mystery of ILB
Posted: March 5th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 748 Comments »Kiko Alonso and Mychal Kendricks would seem to be a dynamic duo at ILB.
That’s why I was surprised when we started to hear that DeMeco Ryans would be brought back (at a reduced rate). And now things continue to be odd.
Interesting note: Philadelphia Eagles had dinner with Stephone Anthony/LB/Clemson yesterday…more to come
— Tony Pauline (@TonyPauline) March 5, 2015
Anthony is one of the best ILBs in the draft. He should be a 2nd round pick.
The Eagles had a scout (or coach) work out ILB Martell Spaight at his Pro Day.
I understand the need for depth, but Alonso and Kendricks are young ILBs. Can you really turn around and spend an early pick on another ILB?
The only way that makes sense is if Kendricks is traded.
Some of you have asked about either Alonso or Kendricks playing outside. I cannot see that happening. Alonso played some OLB in the 4-3, but that’s very different.
A 3-4 OLB needs to be 260 pounds. He must be able to engage blockers and set the edge on run plays. Neither Alonso nor Kendricks can do this consistently. They can take on blocker that come up the field on run plays, but that is different. And neither guy is a good enough pass rusher to play the Predator position. You need a star pass rusher for that.
Maybe this is all just the Eagles being thorough. Just seems odd to me.
* * * * *
My understanding, Chris Polk hasn’t been tendered yet, probably will get the low tender. But prospects for getting ball more here improved.
— Les Bowen (@LesBowen) March 5, 2015
Why give Polk a low tender? Why not?
Seriously, as much as we like him, Polk has rushed for 270 career yards. You tender that guy low and hope no one gives him a great offer. The Eagles have the right to match. They just wouldn’t get any compensation if a team did sign him.
* * * * *
There is a rumor that the Eagles will have interest in free agent RB Mark Ingram.
I don’t think this is good or bad. I haven’t studied Ingram enough to know if the Eagles should be interested.
I do wonder if it makes sense. I get the feeling the Eagles would go one of two ways. I could see them being interested in Adrian Peterson if he’s cut. I could see them being interested in DeMarco Murray if he isn’t getting good offers from other teams. Those are top guys who might cost less than they should.
I could also see the Eagles going cheap, with Polk, Sproles and a rookie sharing carries. And don’t forget that Matthew Tucker and Kenjon Barner are on the roster as well. Tucker has 2 years of practice squad experience. He might be ready to earn a job this year.
Ingram is the middle option. I’m not sure I see the value in going for the middle option. Go get the star if the price is right. Or go with RB-by-committee and really save money.
I’ll watch some Ingram and see if he’s good enough to get excited about. I’m sure he’s good, but is he worth handing a decent deal to? This is a loaded RB class. The rookie might be the way to go.
_
Is it possible that Todd Bowles wants Kendricks (plus picks) in order for Eagles to trade up to #6 with the Jets? He was here watching him develop during his rookie year.
You make a good point, especially since David Harris is rumored to be heading to Buffalo and reunite with Rex.
I hope you are right, and I hope MM doesn’t last until #6. That would be a good outcome of a bad plan.
You realize that #6 is only one option and that the deal doesn’t happen unless he’s available, right?
Yeah I just don’t want to mortgage the team, and if Chip makes a tentative deal that is pre-empted because Tampa or Titans or somebody else takes MM, I hope he doesn’t have a way to #1.
Idk what I’ll do if we lose Kendricks. When is the earliest we would hear of something like this? OregonDucker, is something big still happening tomorrow?!?!?!
Probably Monday but the leaks could drive a late Friday announcement. Still no ink on paper from what I hear. If this collapses, then I don’t think we get Mariota. Hence, no news means we’re hosed I guess.
Why Friday or Monday? Why not Saturday or Sunday? And why is Monday as deadline so important?
Do you know that? Or are you just hearing Friday and Monday, and you don’t know why these days specific days are so important?
It could be Sat or Sunday but one would think will happen by Monday, if it happens b/c free agency starts Tuesday. Both teams to the trade will want to know what picks and/or players they are getting or losing, so that they can act accordingly in FA. If the trade is a handshake deal with the Jets at pick 6, that likely won’t be sent to the NFL b/c you have to wait until 6 to see if he is there to pick. But if it’s all the way up to # 1 or 2 (assuming Eagles are convinced Tampa takes Winston at # 1), then it makes a lot of sense to make it official Monday.
Tampa is still the key to the whole thing. I think Tampa at 1 and the Jets at 6 are the only teams in the top 9 that would really consider Mariota.
Jameis is far from a sure thing at #1 overall due to his criminal soul and Cutler-esque INT problems. They could still decide they want Mariota at #1 because of several football reasons in addition to the off of the field stuff with Jameis.
If Bowles is really an Arians guy, I don’t think he wants anything other than a traditional thrower at QB.
The only team I really worry about doing something crazy is Cleveland. If the owner is able to disengage his mouth from Johnny Streetball’s “member” long enough to think out loud, he could ask his GM to sell out for Mariota at #1 overall.
I read an article that Tampa had introduced Winston to the Tampa media and that the author of the article read into this that meant Tampa had decided to take him. Who knows.
They could also be floating a smokescreen to keep people guessing.
I do know the fans down there are clamoring for Mariota, not Winston.
Exactly, the deal with the Jet’s is handshake only and the teams would wait to see if Mariota is still there at 6 on draft day to pull the trigger. The Jets deal is plan B. The blockbuster OregonDucker is talking about is probably moving up to #1 or #2. I’m assuming it’s to #1 with the thinking that Tennessee would take Mariota at #2. Hence, why if this falls through we probably won’t get Mariota.
I’m starting to get the impression that Kiko was brought in to replace Kendricks and not Ryans, unfortunately. I was really looking forward to seeing Kiko and Kendricks for the next 6-7 years. But, there seems to be a lot of smoke around Kendricks as a trade piece at this point. And, I think if Tampa wants Kendricks to play MLB in their Tampa 2 and that’s the one thing holding up the trade, I think Chip would part ways with Kendricks to get himself the QB that he is positive will win multiple Super Bowls.
For those of you guys that still haven’t accepted that this off season is about Kelly getting Marcus Mariota at all costs, I don’t know what to tell ya. I have no doubt that’s where this is all heading. Chip didn’t wrestle personnel control away from Howie, trade away one of our best players and clear out a cool $50mil in cap space, because his dream was to have an offense where Nick Foles hands the ball to Chris Polk and throws jump balls to Riley Cooper and stupid Howie wouldn’t let him do it. Chip is getting his boy and going all in with him.
Im with you on all this even i hate accepting this truth….
and if we trade kendricks and the draft for marcus….how the hell will we ever end up with this clemson LB?
If the deal is with Lovie for Kendricks and picks, Lovie could agree to grab a second round player of CK’s choosing and sell him to us for another future pick. After that Lovie will be getting high first and second round picks because we’ll be fortunate to finish the next two seasons above .500.
Easy…in the menagerie of picks and players sent to Tampa we don’t include our 2nd round pick. I would assume that the 2nd pick would be part of the deal. But, why would we draft a 2nd round LB if Kiko, Kendricks and Meco all stay? Heck why would we draft a 2nd round LB I’d Kiko and Kendricks stay and Meco goes?
You have to play things as they stand currently, otherwise you show your hand. Also I don’t think “at all costs” is part of Chip’s lexicon. Any deal can fall through and you have to be prepared for all outcomes. This is an information gathering exercise. They may be in a position 3/4/5 years from now where they will be looking to trade for a player or sign him as a free agent.
chip is starting to wieireirieireierierid worrrrymy me out ..too diabolical for his own good? deck chairs on the freakin titatnic too much duck sheet
The Rugby Leage and AFL season is about to start this weekend and the Cricket World Cup is currently on in Australia however last night at the pub, all a group of blokes talked about was the NFL (mostly the Eagles) and pending free agency. Just shows how big it is down here now.
I agree with your thoughts Jernst. I just hope you are wrong about one thing, Kendricks being trade bait. Cant wait to see how this all unfolds.
nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope
nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope
oh god no please don’t trade Kendricks.
He’s going for it and NO ONE is untouchable. I would love to see Kendricks and Kiko but Chip is relentlessly keeping his eye on the prize.
I think the trade would be to 6 not 1. If you look at 1-6 he may get to 6 with Jets not wanting him due to still trying with Geno. Multiple reports say that may be the case. Kendricks would go to Jets to replace Harris. I for one doubted trading to get to Mariota. I now think it’s going to happen, but God I don’t want to give up Kendricks.
If you’re Chip and you MUST have Mariota you also must have trades in place for every pick in the top 10 discussed / worked out. Tampa is the only pick where you’re assured you’ll get him because no team can trade in front of you. Even if – as you suggest – you think Mariota will last to #6 based on the current order of teams, you have to consider what teams would trade in front of the Jets to get him, or even that the Jets themselves would trade up if they want Mariota. That’s why the speculated #20 – #1 or #20 – #2 trades are so astronomically high and why names like Kendricks are being bandied about: If you’re Tampa or Tennessee, you require a huge premium to drop 18-19 spots versus just 4-5 spots in the first round.
If Tampa wants him…game over!
If not, #2 is the only way to be sure – I think that’s where he’s headed. Remember when we had #4 and Miami jumped in front to get Dion Jordan?
Yeah, I think the “jump ahead” scenarios are really the key, and a factor people aren’t considering when immediately dismissing the notion of trading good players. To your point, yes, if Tampa REALLY wants Mariota, then it’s not going to happen, unless Chip pulls the trigger on something insane like 5 first rounders, 3 2nds and 3rds, etc. BUT, if Tampa doesn’t want him, we still have to contend with the possibility of, say, the Jets moving up from 6 to either 1 or 2, which on the basis of picks alone is a better trade partner for Tampa or Tennessee. Even if the Jets (or whoever) aren’t really interested, I’m sure Tampa/Tennessee will tell Chip they’ve got better offers in terms of not having to move back over half-a-round. That’s why I think people are positing that Chip will have to add Kendricks (or other players) to picks to sweeten the deal enough to execute the trade.
yes, or do it in 2 parts, eg Kendricks plus picks for #6, then turnaround and trade #6 and many others to Tennessee to get to #2. TN only moves 4 spots and gains the picks needed for their rebuild. However, 4 spots is still 1,000 pts on the value chart so both ends of that deal would be costly.
The “2 trade” scenario seems very unlikely (and unwise) to me. I mean, it would take a lot for the Jets to pull the trigger on a pre-draft trade (think Kendricks, Foles, 2 firsts, and some seconds or thirds). Whatever the price, it would immediately become untenable for the Eagles for two reasons:
1) They would’ve spent the resources needed to get up to #2 (and you can count on Tennessee suddenly raising the price on draft day because they’d have us over a barrel), meaning that..
2) You run the very real risk of not executing the trade, Tampa taking Mariota, Jets leapfrogging to #2 to take Mariota, etc. Then you would’ve spent multiple firsts, a couple 2nds or 3rds, Kendricks, AND Foles (the only QB on your roster) in exchange for… Vic Beasley?
I don’t see it going down that way. It would have to be a conditional draft day trade. In other words, If TN agrees to #6 plus other picks, you do the trade for #6. If you have agreed in advance on the terms for both of those deals you pull the trigger when Winston is selected as #1.
If I’m Tennessee, I would exercise my leverage and ask for a whole lot more on draft day after Winston goes #1, which would blow the whole thing up. Pre-draft conditional frameworks are just that: frameworks. That’s why GMs are working the phones during their picks, and you’d suddenly have 3 GM’s negotiating over one pick.
I believe the RG3 trade was negotiated in advance. With Luck going #1 and RG3 #2, similar scenario.
That was two teams: Washington and St. Louis. Executed prior to the draft, but only one move.
Yes, but essentially what we have is a 3-way trade which can be agreed in advance. Eagles get #2, TN gets #6 and picks, NYJ gets package of picks and/or Kendricks/Foles. I’m not suggesting we trade for #6 and then see what happens, one partner (NYJ) is on board and if the other partner (TN) agrees we have a deal.
Okay, but I’m saying “agreeing in advance” doesn’t work in the same way as actual trades. St. Louis traded the #2 pick to Washington before the draft – it wasn’t conditional on RG3 being available. It was widely (and correctly) assumed that Indianapolis would take Andrew Luck #1 so it was effectively a trade for RG3, but it wasn’t a conditional trade or framework, and certainly not involving another team.
If you’re suggesting that a three-team trade will actually get executed before the draft that’s something else, and also very unlikely because why wouldn’t Tennessee think it can get more by waiting until the actual draft? The very trade you referenced between Washington and St. Louis went from #6 to #2 – the equivalent of the Jets and the Titans – the two other partners in this scenario. I think the Titans would start with the same asking price (despite being farfetched) from the Jets, and then we’d have to do even better than that to get the Jets to agree… essentially, we’d be paying a premium twice. We’d have a better chance dealing directly with Tennessee.
I agree the 2-part scenario would be costly and not the best way to go, unless TN refuses to fall to #20. If they get a large enough haul of picks maybe it won’t be a problem.
That might be the case (TN refuses to drop to 20), but Philly will have to produce those picks on their own without a third party, draft-contingent trade. This is why we’re even entertaining seemingly crazy ideas like dealing Kendricks – to make it “worth it” for the Titans or Tampa to drop to 20. The Jets factor-in with a “Mariota falls to #6” scenario which I find unlikely simply because I think the Eagles would get anxious and pay more to move higher than 6 out of fear of other teams moving ahead of them.
In terms of your pre-draft three-way (hello!) my contention is that the prices will be prohibitively high from both the Titans and the Jets because you’d have to blow both of them over (hello again!) to deal before the draft. It stands to reason that their leverage is best used when their pick is on the clock.
Well we know #6 is possible so i’m guessing Chip and Marynowitz are burning up the phone lines to teams 1-5 to see who else wants to play.
Is there a rule that says you can’t have three teams negotiate a trade together, pre-draft or otherwise?
3-way trades are less common but they happen so it wouldn’t be the strangest thing to occur this off-season.
I don’t mean to sound combative or anything, but can you recall a 3 team trade executed before the draft?
I doubt it, but I just don’t see it happening. The value of Tennessee’s pick could go up depending on what Tampa does so there’s no real incentive for them to agree to anything before the draft. If they know Philly is hot for Mariota the move would be to hold out and increase leverage when they’re on the clock.
I think everyone knows Chip is dying to get his guy but at some point Chip will move on to Plan B. I doubt that TN wants to give up all of the picks they could get from us by being greedy and I doubt that TN selects Mariota so hopefully we have discussions with JX at #3 as well.
Okay. It’s not worth getting carpal tunnel arguing about the likelihood of a 3 team, pre-draft blockbuster trade.
I feel like you’re the only one who gets it, Baloophi
If Kelly trades 5 first rounders for Marcus Mariota, he should be fired before the draft is over.
people lost their damn minds… acting like Marriotta is the invaluable “mona lisa” of the NFL draft…gtfo here… there has to be a walk away point for every player or your coach is a fool
i wouldnt pay what people are talking about for andrew luck
Settle down now, Andrew might actually be worth it.
Isn’t hindsight awesome? LOL. I get what you are saying and I agree with you. Not many players are worth selling the farm over but maybe Luck is a bad comparison.
I agree. I like Mariota and think he’s going to be a good NFL starter. I’d even be willing to gamble by trading up to the 10-12 range for him. But giving up multiple first round picks plus multiple second and third rounders PLUS young foundational pieces is crazy talk. Even if Mariota were on the Luck-Manning level as a prospect, that would be overpaying. And he’s not on that level. He’s going to struggle at times against NFL defenses, and the Eagles would not be a Super Bowl contender for a couple years if they draft him. And if the team gives up the farm for him there will be very little patience for that – this media and this fan base will eat him alive the first time he throws multiple bad picks into coverages he hasn’t seen before and the Eagles lose to someone people think they shouldn’t have. It’s a situation that would be rife for failure all around.
I’d have gone for Madonna of the Rocks.
Too late, at that point.
Damage done — like Mrs. Murphy’s cow.
looks Tampa has decided on Winston
Agree, I’m just basing this off of multiple reports saying that if Mariota falls to 6 the Jets are willing to trade. Just because you want him doesn’t mean the other teams are willing to trade. Jets reportedly are. If you look at the other teams before 6 they have all recently acquired QBs that they claim they are sticking with. I’m just basing this assumption off of recent reports that may make the most sense. You can’t believe ANYTHING this time of year so all’s you can do is roll with things you hear. I could be completely off. I hope I am. I don’t want to mortgage so much into one player. Everything as of now is speculation, this is just rolling with one that makes sense and has been reported on. If you look at the most recent mock drafts you will see that in the large majority of them Mariota is falling to 6. CBS, NFL etc. There is also the cut off point. I don’t believe Chip is foolish enough to blindly go after him and get hosed by the trade partner. At a certain point he may say this is to much, this may hurt my team more then help. The difference between 1 and 6 may be drastic. At 6 you can throw in Foles and Kendricks. Both players fill a need. Foles replaces Geno if Bowles doesn’t like him and Kendricks would be a perfect replacement for now FA Harris. By doing that you may lessen the draft picks you are giving up considerably. Again I don’t want this to happen, I don’t want to chase Mariota, but at this point it may very well happen.
havent you heard? the NFL is going to sit back and let Chip get his golden boy… all the coaches and GMs of the 30 teams will be clapping and cheering chip on to get his boy
,,,
in one breathe people say MM is this hawian football God who we have to trade our soul to the devil to get….. but in the next breathe people act like No one wants anything to do with this kid and the league will just sit back and cheer chip on to get his golden boy
He can be Hawaiian football God to Kelly, but other teams might not see him that way, so a team will gladly take a ton of draft picks instead.
If he is as good as he says he is, atleast 1 other team will be desperate for him…whether its a dumb Owner like the Browns.. there is no way that this kid is worth trading hte world for to one coach, yet not a single other pro coach feels the same way.. hard time believing that… even if MM sucks, I assume some dumb GM would still try hard to get him… for every Eagle marriotta rumor you see, there is a browns Mariotta rumor..
..
i cant possibly believe that out of all the football minds working in front offices, chip is the only one whio thinks this highly of him
and if that is true… why the hell are we trading away our soul for the kid… why not sit at 20 and call the other 19 teams bluff
Because a team like the Texans or Bears might value him, but not as high as us and therefor wouldnt trade up for him, but would take him if he feel to them
I wouldn’t worry about either of those two teams to be honest. The Bears, with Adam Gase, don’t strike me as a team looking to add a dude with Mariota’s skill set and development needs.
Ditto for the Texans. Bill O’Brien is known for Tom Brady and Christian Hackenberg.
I’d put both of those teams on the Bryce Petty watch list for trading back into the end of rd 1.
Bears two plus Brandon Marshall for Seattle’s pick at 31?
Houston’s two and three this year, plus another pick next year for New England’s 32?
I just don’t see either team chasing Mariota.
ShEEEEEEt, Dan Snider would take him just to try to get some karmic justice. Jeff Fisher would take him because he’s had more picks than anybody but still doesn’t have his QB (despite what he says). Mike Brown must be getting tired of the Andy Dalton One and Done sit-com. And none of this is to say that ANY of them feel certain that MM is the guy, maybe they feel that MM could be the guy and they don’t want to miss out, a sentiment that I reflected in many of the posts here.
Clay?
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y346/AmishBreakfast/blah/Clay_DavisSHEEEEEET.jpg
some how i doubt pro teams are dying to spend top 19 picks on a kid who hasnt called a play since high school. a kid who hasnt throw a simple snap from under center in Years.. a kid who hasnt shown any ability to throw with anticipation in anything that resembles a tight NFL window..
…
somehow I doubt pro offenses are dying to spend top 20 picks on a kid that has been inadequately prepared to play in pro offenses,… i doubt these pro offenses see enough to spend top picks to stick him in their pro offense, and im not sure how many of these pro teams are ready to scrape their offensive pro schemes so that they can instill a college offense tailor made to suit their top 19 pick……im starting to wonder if anyone would want this kid enough considering everything you have to do with and for him to put him in a position to really succeed
…
i dunno what to think about this kid…but if im a pro team with a top 15 pick, id probably punt
“highly” vs. “as highly” is s significant difference.
The way the Eagles rate him might have him stacked as #1 overall on their board. The way the Browns rate him might have him stacked as 6th. The Bucs might have him 1st, might have him 15th.
Maybe Cincy would move up to take him at 19 if he’s falling to get ahead of the Eagles, but not at 10.
Maybe the Rams have him 8th. Maybe they have him 18th.
You absolutely can’t know what any team, Eagles included, really think of the dude relative to all of the other talent in the draft. But what you can know is that Chip will have the most accurate ability to predict how Mariota will fit on his team.
If the biggest question teams have is “Can Mariota translate to the NFL?” it stands to reason they’re not inclined to risk their job moving up for the guy.
I’ll stand by my statement that the Eagles need to really only worry about Tampa, Cleveland, and the Jets in this process. I don’t see the Rams moving up for him.
I’ll also stand by I’d still prefer to not trade up at all and keep Foles as the QB for 2015.
Exactly right! And, I think Chip knows this. If he sees a future Tomy Brady with wheels, then he probably assumes at least one other team does too. That’s why I think he’s working hard for the #1 overall pick.
I don’t think teams intentionally trade up to get a higher number one pick just to spite another team/coach by going to grab a guy, who if he fails in their system, is likely to cost that coach and/or GM their employment.
I think the media wants Mariota to become an Eagle more than Chip does.
Doesn’t anyone remember that we already have a starting QB who has gone 14-4 as a starter in the NFL.
How do you justify trading him away for potential?
All I can think of is how highly toted a guy named Manziel was last season.
We all know how that turned out.
I say give Foles a chance to be great, he just might surprise some folks, as he did before.
History is known to repeat you know.
Who was a linebackers coach at Tulsa, Wisconsin, Arizona State, Kentucky, and Tampa Bay?
Who is the head coach at Tampa?
I read your post to the theme from Shaft…
Can ya dig it
I dig it the most.
is this a riddle?
I tend to agree with you if the draft order doesn’t change. I think Tampa takes Winston #1, I think Tennessee will pass on Mariota, and then the next team that needs a QB is the Jets at #6. However, all you need is one team between the Jets and us that secretly wants Mariota to leap frog the Jets and we’re screwed. You gotta think like Kelly and if like him you’re convinced that Mariota is going to win multiple Super Bowls and you’re altering your entire personnel strategy in hopes of landing him, would you roll the dice and HOPE no one jumps ahead of the Jets like the Dolphins did when they surprised is and traded up 2 spots for Dion or do you try to trade as high as possible to ensure you get your guy? That’s why I think Kelly has an offer into Tampa right now that they are mulling over and if they pass he’ll move on to Tennessee.
You could be right, and a lot of people agree with what you’re saying. But it’s still a lot of supposition and not a lot of evidence. And every move that has been made is justifiable on its own merits, even without a big draft trade-up.
Supposition is the right word for sure. A thousand people all saying hey know what Chip wants. Not one word out of Chip’s mouth.
the fact that all these moves are justifiable on their own is really giving me confidence in Chip. He’s positioning himself but he’s actually strengthening his hand at the same time. He’s good.
All very true! That’s why I said its a feeling. I’m reading tea leaves and suppositions here. Not a lot of proof. Just a really strong feeling.
The only smoke about Kendricks is guys like Jeff McLane openly speculating. They aint even reporting rumors.
irresponsible pricks make our fanbase go crazy with their bogus ridiculous rumors
what gave you this impression? bullshit rumors from a media known for like a 20% accuracy rate?…
..
MECO LOOKED LIKE CRAP YEAR 1 returning from his INJURY!! no shot in hell we go into next year with him penciled in as a starter!! he needed two years to get over last acl injury, and he was in his mid 20’s at the time… probably not going to bounce back faster now that he is 30
I don’t disagree one bit about Meco. And I hope you’re right. But I have a feeling that’s why they’re meeting with multiple ILB prospects. Let’s hope they’re just being diligent.
Don’t discount a cut of Meco if we were to sign Brooks Reed as well.
Very true
Yeah, IF a big trade happened early for Tampa’s pick today with Kendricks going. We’d keep Meco until we signed Brooks Reed, then cut Meco to get the cash back.
There really are endless combinations.
NO SHOT!!!.. chip kelly respects the hell out of meco.. no shot in hell that he screws with his future and waits til we find someone better to cut him… by now, one thing we should have learned is whether we agree with it or not, chip treats the players and coaches he is discarding with class. EVERY PLAYER we respect WILL BE CUT BEFORE FREE AGENCY starts since they can start looking for a new deal right away… No way chip would hold onto meco and cut him midway thru free agency when the free agent money and roster spots are half way filled…
…
Heck Meco would have been cut a day or two after the Kiko trade if he wasnt going to be here next year… his agent wuld be trying to find a job right now… Too Much respect for Mufasa to hold him hostage until he can get Brooks signature…. doubt we ever see chip operate like that
Maybe. But Meco could also be a guy who teams view (no matter when he’d be cut) as a guy who’d not be worth signing until the end of week 1 because he’s not worth giving a fully guaranteed contract for the year. Ryans could simply rehab on his own, stay in shape, and be ready for a call from a team that wants him once the season gets going.
thats true… but the moment we traded for Kiko, you can bet your life chip had the curtuosly to call meco and either told him: 1) dont listen to the Media BS you are going to be here, i want you here next year.. 2) or he would have manned up and gave Meco the respect to tell him he is moving on….he is doing rehab at novacare with our trainers, if we cut him, might wanna let him make alternative plans for his rehab…. If Chip told Meco we traded for Kiko, we will have to let you go Meco agent would have leaked it already to announce it to the other teams, since he has his work cut out for him trying to get his injured client a job…. we would already know if Meco wont be here next year. we respect him too much and chip is too classy to screw with mufasa future
Tampa needs a QB so why would they trade out of the #1 spot and pass on Mariota or Winston? We don’t know if Lovie Smith likes Foles, or Kendricks. I don’t see Tampa trading out of the top spot.
I agree, I think it’s with the Titans.
They very well might not. You need two teams to actually make the trade happen and I think chances are they’ll take Winston. But, I guarantee Chip has an offer on the table for that number #1 pick.
Here’s a not-so-far-fetched scenario. Lovie can get Eagles future 1’s, 2’s and players like Kendricks, Foles and trade a portion of them for Jacksonville to pick Winston for Tampa. Lovie makes out like a bandit and Chip begins year 3 under water.
You may be right, but if that’s the case, I’m off the Chip Kelly bandwagon, because he’s pursuing a strategy that doesn’t have a track record of winning Super Bowls but does have an excellent one of running franchises into the ground.
What do you think the trade value should be for each of the following players just in case they are on the block (my guesses in parentheses)?
Kendricks (2nd)
Foles (2nd)
Curry (4th)
Boykin (5th)
Other opinions?
I would need more for Curry. He’s a pash rush threat, didn’t he have 9 sacks last year? Gotta be a 2 for me
Yeah but only one more year of control.
Still I would want a second for him or no dice. He is a die hard eagles fan and two of our defensive coaches coached him in college. So I am sure the team would want him back in his role.
I don’t want to know what you WANT for him – I want to try to understand how they might be valued as far as what another team would realistically give up for them/how they are valued by other teams relative to draft round.
not a 4th buddy
I was about to point out that I don’t see a 2nd for Curry, but then I saw he had 9 sacks in spot duty.
If you look at the contracts that those guys get entering free agency, a 2nd isn’t wrong for him.
He’d absolutely had value for Tampa / Lovie as well as they SUCK at DE.
right but a team has to think they are willing to pay for talent. The team would get exclusive negotiating rights for that year. I am not dismissing it, certainly cuts into the value.
Kendricks to me is a first, or more. He’s like a first round pick that has hit. Our picks will be in the lower half of the round (likely, not for sure) and then a later first round pick might not hit. So to me, Kendricks is worth a fair amount.
I think Curry is higher. Boykin too.
picks are gambles.. when the player you draft outperforms where we drafted him, you dont trade him for less then what we paid
curry for a 4th round pick is crazy… paid a 2nd, not losing value trading a puppy who is ready to explode.
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why would we trade kendricks for a 2nd round pick? get real, we paid a 2nd and he turned out to be a steal, and we groomed him for 3 years, you aint getting him for what we paid for him… thats just crazy
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Trading Boykin for a 5th. also ridiculuos.. he is worth way more to us
In no way am I saying I would recommend trading any of these players, and I also am not saying I would trade any of them for the values I listed. I am just trying to get a sense of what might be realistic value for each to extract from another team (NOT what we WANT or would HOPE to get in order to feel good about trading them).
Essentially, I just want to know how they might be viewed as assets by other teams around the league so I can understand what kind of value they realistically represent in terms of helping the Eagles move up in the draft.
It is a solid exercise in conjecture because we need to be able to judge any possible trade up by Chip based on;
a) did he go up higher than he should have?
and
b) did he give up too much, just the right amount, or totally win the deal in a trade with another team?
and we will have 2,500 comments that day for sure
But if they’re after the fact of the trade they’ll at least be based on something more legit.
oh, agreed. You will think the other team should have thrown in a 2nd rounder to us. I am really curious about all this.
foles a pick in the 20-40 range, already turned down a 2nd, and josh gordon in another trade for him…and since those offers his stock has increased league wide
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curry a round 2 pick, atleast what we paid for him
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kendricks, atleast a top 50 pick, posibly 25-40 range pick
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Boykin is hard to figure out…what corey Graham get last year from the bills like 4 years 16 or 20mil? i assme 24 gets boykin to sign an extension… boykin is tough to talk about because all GMs will disagree on how they view him.. is he just a nickel, can he be an outside corner to teams who play 5’5 corners like brandon Flowers on the outside… boykin is a tough one..
keep in mind that alot of the compensation you are assigning for them, we could probably get a higher compensatory pick just letting them leave as free agents instead of giving away quality young players for much less then we paid
With the amount of moves we are getting ready to make in free agency ourselves I dont really think compensatory picks should be part of this discussion.
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curry a team can trade for, see play one year at cheap 2nd round rookie money and there be a good chance they would end up wanting to extend him…. that isnt even worth close to a 4th… we would hang up on you if you said 3rd rounder…. edge rushers are one of the 3 most valued and expensive positions and yuo talking about a kid who is close to double digit sacks playing like 1/3rd of the game, and doing it out of position..
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foles would never be traded for less then a top 50 pick
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kendricks we wont trade for a 2nd(unless maybe a top 10 pick in round 2).. we paid that for him and hit on the lottery with 1st round talent… teams can pay for him or they are welcome to find their own 1st round ILB talent in round 2
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i get why you undervalue boykin so much after all the absurdities our media has put in fans minds about him the past 3 years… but we would rather keep him then get a 5th for him, i would think… boykin worth more then his round 4 spot where we got him… not sure we would give him away for worst value when his stock has increased since we drafted him in the 4th
I’d say:
Lane – 1
Cox – 1
Ertz – 1/2
Kendricks – 2
Foles – 2
I can’t tell you about Curry or Boykins because they’re both young and cost controlled, but don’t exactly play full time. And no, nickel corner isn’t a starter Billy. Hopefully a 4th for either.
All of the conjecture aside, I’d still prefer to roll with Foles as the QB this year.
Rather than ninja edit, I’ll revise my opinion on Curry. I didn’t realize he had 9 sacks in spot duty.
I’d ask for a 2nd or 3rd for him considering the lack of pass rushers.
never give curry up for a 3rd… we can get that as a compensatory pick for him
Then a 2nd it is.
And I don’t ever see him getting full time work here due to our 3-4.
Mariota aside, I’d love to see Vinny traded to a 4-3 team that will deploy him properly for their 2nd round pick.
for Dion Jordan
its coming….no worries. the prodigal duck is coming back to the nest soon
Dion is coming for Curry… Gordan Bombay Kelly will never rest til he reunites all the Ducks so he can install his “Flying V” offense,… dion used to be a WR
Dion for Curry would be solid for both teams.
win win…afc and NFC team help each other fix their schematic draft mistakes…
Terrible trade for us imo. Jordan is not worth more than a 5th right now
cap hit Miami has to eat factors into the Value they would get in return… .. just the fact that we are losing Curry for a similar talent that unlike curry, we can justify paying to extend long term makes it valuable trade for us… and the same can be said for Miami
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just like a team having to eat shadys salary made it so they had to give us less compensation than we would expect for a player of shadys caliber
eagles and miami really dont have a choice… they will have to make that trade… the dolphins wont be able to pay Dion what 3-4 teams will be willing to so they cant keep Dion long term, and we cant justify paying curry what the 4-3 teams will throw at him… so miami and the eagles both acquire a young talent that is more realistic for them to be able to extend long term…. no brainer
we are naturally talking about the Eagles picks right? you would trade Cox or Lane for an Eagles first round pick in 2015 (around pick 20)? I don’t think you would do that at all.
No, just the generic “value” for a guy if you were to trade him.
You could very well be correct that Lane could be two 1s at this point and Cox would be a 1 and a 2 or something like that.
Given recent precedent of QB trades I think Foles is valued a lot higher than a 2nd. If he’s worth keeping around, you are essentially saying he has the potential to be a top 10 QB. Otherwise, why are we even having this discussion? If Foles is Andy Dalton or worse, then QB is our number one priority and always will be until we find someone better. And, if he has that potential he’s worth at least a 1st, or 2 2nd rounders. Kolb after one game as a franchise QB where he ran around scared to death for 3 quarters before being concussed into next week by Clay Matthews got a high second and DRC. Feeley played 4 ok games and got a 2nd. Charlie Whitehurst got a 3rd and a swap of 2nds that allowed the Chargers to move from pick 60 to pick 40, after only a handful of meaningful snaps. Green Bay moved up to the 10th overall pick in the draft from #17 and picked up a 3rd round pick for Hasselbeck who up until that point had held Favre’s clip board and never took a meaningful snap. Alex Smith got two 2nd rounders. Matt Cassel got the 34th pick in the draft.
So that being said, I think Foles, someone that’s 14-4 in the last two years as a starter and has had some seriously good stretches of play in that time, is worth a lot more than people are thinking. I’d value him as a mid 1st round pick.
I just don’t get it. You would be trading a position that is finally a strength, with not a whole lot behind it. This isn’t like we have someone to step up and replace Kendricks, and we’re gambling that we’d be able to snag one of the better linebackers in the draft after the MM pick.
I’m not saying it won’t hapen. Just saying I don’t like it.
I know. It finally looks like Chip is paying attention to defense, but…NOPE! Just getting trade chips so he can fluff up his precious offense.
Hazarding a guess here: We got by last year with Kendricks and fill-ins at ILB (post Meco injury). Matthews et al. were not inspiring, but I think you could argue they didn’t lose us games like the secondary. By acquiring Alonso, you technically have a Kendricks replacement. We can (and should) debate whether the team as a whole is better with two stud ILB’s or one stud ILB and Mariota, but that’s sort of the calculation I’m envisioning when it comes to the “trade Kendricks” rationale. Kendricks is a piece that other teams probably couldn’t or wouldn’t match in terms of trade value and if he’s what it takes to put a trade over the top, that could be the reasoning.
I wouldn’t trade Kendricks at all. Chip is a moron if he does so and should be fired.
Okay. I was simply responding to CrackSammich wondering why the Eagles would trade a position of strength. Whether you agree with trading Kendricks or not, it seems like there could be a scenario that boils down to “trade Kendricks or lose Mariota.” I think people will have reasonable arguments for and against that notion – I was trying to rationalize the “pro” side, though I’m personally not sure how I feel.
That assessment makes sense.
What it might come down to is: QB > ILB. A better QB can get you into the playoffs. Kendricks, despite being good, can not. If Kelly thinks Mariota is the one, it’ll be an easy decision for him.
For him, yes. For the rest of us who sat through a decade of terrible LB play and have been conditioned (rightly or wrongly) to believe that “defense wins championships,” it might not be so clear. Obviously – and to your point – it will come down to what Chip values more and how much he really believes in Mariota and his ability to run an idealized offense.
Just ask yourself what you think Chip sees when he looks at Mariota. If everyone puts their own thoughts aside and is honest about what they think Chip sees, I think this discussion you’re trying to have makes A LOT more sense.
then chip better sign a friggin 5 year extension he cant get out of without heavy fines, if he is going to gut us for his goldenboy. if he makes a friggin mess, then he needs to sit thru it, not run back to jolly college life
I would think, worst case scenario, sure, Kendricks would be gone if he could pick up Mariota. BUT, I would think Curry would be much more valuable as a trade piece before Kendricks would. Pass rushing DE over ILB any day.
Seeing Kendrick’s go would be surprising. you could make the argument that the moves so far haven’t been to make the defense weaker, but to put it in position to become stronger. Getting rid of Kendricks would just seem to make that tougher, especially if he is looking to unload a lot of high picks in order to get Mariota.
I trade any player on the roster for Mariota, even Fletcher Cox who is by the best player on the team last year.
Look at team like the Texans, they have JJ Watt, best defensive player since Reggie White (who btw won how many play off games when he didnt have a great QB to help him?), cant even get close to play offs despite been totally freaking awesome because they had Fitzpatrick at QB
Foles >>>> Fitzpatrick.
true, but JJ Watt >>>> Fletcher Cox….
and DeAndre Hopkins > Jeremy Maclin (or who ever we have will have as no. 1 WR)
i just threw up in my mouth
And the Redskins are the uber-team with 3 SBs, right?
It’s just not that simple.
Never said that, just said that even if you have the greatest non QB on the world on your team, you still aint winning shit without a QB.
yes they do have 3 SB wins.
Got me with the imprecision, but … Did they win those with HOF QBs? BTW, Joe Gibbs was my favorite coach for the longest time, and I wished he was an Eagles coach. Loved the way his teams played.
But if you trade away players on rookie deals that you won’t be able to resign while retaining your draft picks to be able to draft future cost controlled starts, that might be a way to go.
The main reason the Skins are buried is two-fold; RG3 sucks and they constantly lack low cost / high quality talent on the roster because far too many pics have been traded away over the years.
I don’t want to see Kendricks and Curry leave, but I’d rather see them leave via trade to keep my pics than see them leave for nothing in year with lower compensatory picks coming back.
If the Eagles go hog wild in spending in free agency this year and want to go up to Mariota, they’re sort of compelled to make sure they have some high remaining draft picks in the future to restock the team because they’ll lack the money to do so in free agency for a few years.
superbowl champs are built in the draft…trade away quality young players instead of extending them and we turn into an NFL feeder franchise like the Bills
not to mention your locker room wont respect you and everyone will start to resent this front office
Again, you’re not wrong. But you have to agree that type of thing might not be on Chip’s radar.
chip spent two years making decisions highly factoring culture into the equation… doubt he pisses all over the culture he built…and I have hjeard him echo howies sentiments about not ruffling feathers by paying outsiders more then what we are paying our studs..
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for example, my eyes are on Brooks reed and Sheard, why when there are so many great OLB available you ask? because barwin has been a godsend and i doubt they spit in his face by bringing in someone else who is being paid much more then Barwin.. if we do, we would have to restructure barwin and pay him more if you really care about culture… so I expect the OLB we sign to be a similar or cheaper brooks reed type..
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chip prioritized locker room culture to the extreme for two years… cant imagine all of the sudden not caring about it and start making moves that can ruin everything your prioritized building… its the foundation he spent two years laying… i dont see it… love to be wrong. i want the top guys in FA too, i just dont see it..
I whole heartedly agree. I doubt we spend big on OLB for a mid level player and essentially spit in Barwin’s face. If we spend big money it’s only if someone like Houston becomes available. Giving Worilds or Graham significantly more than Barwin doesn’t fit our recent MO. But, signing a big name CB or Safety with an empty cubert, shouldn’t ruffle feathers. This is not like signing Nnamdi when Assante and DRC were already on the roster.
yes i agree. they can pull off giving big money to DBs… but not the other positions….maybe you go cheaper searcy/Rahim instead of expensive McCourty to not ruffle Jenkins who we value highly. but we should be able to throw money at a corner from LOB with our locker room understanding… im sure Maragos would smooth things over
No you wont lose the locker room, players understand this is a business and winning cures everything
You’re not wrong, I’m just saying we won’t have the money to keep those guys IF we do the big time free agent thing and try to move up for Mariota.
thats true… but i think the big free agent splash is bogus anyway….. chip got everything he wanted from howie the first two years.. and nothing we have seen allows us to confidently expect them to go bannanas in free agency when we have a bunch of young players that we will have to start extending
We’ll know in a week.
sure the hell hope im wrong… i want the top FA too!!! its not like im some football Monk who took a vow of free agent celibacy and doesnt want the best free agency has to offer
I think it’s safe to say that he did not get everything he wanted from Howie.
I agree! But, just to play devils advocate…The New England Patriots.
Just got to ask yourself if Chip thinks Marcus Mariota is his Tom Brady. If you answer that question honestly, all other discussions of cost and benefit change from how you’re seeing things. Because, you, and a lot of other people, don’t see Mariota as Tom Brady with awesome speed and athletic ability with Peyton Mannings brain rattling around in his skull. But, that’s not what were talking about. We have to ask what does Chip see when he looks at Mariota and what would he give up to get him.
cant dispute that…that doesnt mean we have to bend over and give a franchise whatever they want…. if a team really likes him, they wouldnt be trading him to us… we can compensate that team, doesnt mean we have to let them rape us
there needs to be a walk away point with every player.. no player is invaluable. brady is worthless if you cant put a team around him
And, the team they traded all those draft picks to, the Rams, collected a bunch of talent, hit on most of those picks and still can’t break .500 or make a single playoff appearance, because….the don’t have a QB.
See, it’s just not that simple…
Correct, thanks for making my point. It’s just not that simple. Aaron Rodgers, possibly the greatest QB of all time (look at the stats, what he’s done the last few years truly stands above the crowd) and he has one SB. Brady just won his first since spygate. Peyton Manning has fewer SBs than Eli.
There are sooooooo many variables in achieving that prize that it’s the height of silliness to say that you know what the single proximate cause was. Nothing you can do will guarantee anything.
The one thing that I think is undeniably right about the Lurie era is that he recognizes that the process is more important than the results. So, for now, I’m in on the “In Chip We Trust.” If he mortgages the next three drafts for MM, I’m okay with it. I don’t think it will be successful, but I’m okay with giving Chip the ability to put his vision into practice. He’s got a vision of a process, and the only way to find out the results of that process is empirically.
Reggie won his SB also w/out a great QB. Green Bay was a great team, and Brett was okay – not great. Best known for 1) throwing the football harder than Roger Clemmons threw a baseball; 2) high pain threshold (meds); 3) longevity and 4) throwing picks. Trade a team away for a good or even great QB, and you run the risk of never going to the SB. Look at Dan Marino. Not saying Miami gave up the farm for him, but he was a great QB – light years better than Favre, and never got a ring.
Favre won MVP that year and was in a 3 year stretch of winning the MVP each year. To call him “okay” isn’t accurate.
From 1995-1998 Favre was elite. In 1995 he threw for 4413 yards 38TD and 13 INT, in 1996 he threw for 3899 yards, 39 TD and 13 INT. His QB rating was up just shy of 100 both of those years. And, that was back before the rules changed and opened up the passing game to absurd stats.
I know he’s liked by a lot of folks. Not my idea of great. Talented, tough and in the biggest game of his life KR gets MVP, because BF didn’t impress voters. If he had won one more SB, I might think differently, but his one ring was more of a WCO string of SB wins that favored Green Bay that year.
He was great in those 3-4 years. Not a terribly long peak for a QB, but there were a few where he listened to Holmgren about being careful with the ball, which is when he won his SB. The next 14 years are where he got overconfident and/or careless and threw too many picks and wasn’t as good, which may have affected your memory of him a bit.
I completely agree. Would hate to lose Kendricks. But, you got to think like Chip. If all indications are true that he thinks as highly of Mariota as he seems to. Gushes about him all the time, compares his football intelligence to Peyton Manning without an ounce of hyperbole and talked extensively about him during his interviews for a head coaching position, apparently telling teams he was convinced the kid would win multiple Super Bowls. If that’s what Chip thinks of him, he literally sees the kid as his Tom Brady. Forget all the “no one knows if Mariota will succeed or be a total bust” stuff, Chip is convinced he’s Tom Brady with wheels and will win multiple Super Bowls. So If a young Tom Brady was available, and you were convinced that that’s what he was going to become, how much would you give up for him? Would you be willing to weaken ILB to get Tom Brady? I’m not saying I would do the trade, but I think Chip might.
why would we trade kendricks without trading Curry first, especially if we talking to a 4-3 team? we cant extend curry longterm, and the 4-3 team values pass rushing DE way more then a LB,.. pass rush DE is the most valuable position on defense… makes no sense why the bucs would want kendricks over Curry, and why we would want to give Kendricks instead of curry
Does anybody else think Lamichael James could be an interesting pickup?
no
D’Anthony Thomas tweeted that he wasn’t coming here. Although I think that was just answering someone who asked
yeah all eagles gotta be on alert you never know what could happen.
No
how can I rule him out knowing the college he went to?
Why even bother trying to figure out any more lol
Chip gonna Chip
seriously NOBODY has any fucking clue at all what he’s gonna do MM could just be a major smoke screen and another thing Tommy]
having 3 ILB studs would have worked great for last year… anything to get rid of Casey Mathewws:
who thought back in ’12 he would out last:
Trent Cole
Brandon Graham
Bradley Fletcher
Sconces
Desean
Lesean
Herremans
wtf lol
I can sign off on getting rid of Shady McCoy because he is expensive and a player perhaps starting to decline. (didn’t look right last year) But I cannot however support giving up one of our best young players in a trade. That would make no sense to me. Mychal is one of the best young linebackers in the NFL. He needs to be extended not traded.
He’s too short to fit Chip Kelly’s system.
So was this guy…
And this guy.
So he just plays really well in it by accident then?
yeah, cuz people give a crap about how tall an inside LB is..
Agreed. Kendricks and Cox are building blocks.
When Chip was HC at Oregon did he try to draft Hundley before or after drafting Mariota?
I think you mean recruited.
Mariota declared to Oregon before Hundley UCLA, so Oregon still wanted him after landing Mariota.
you havent heard of the great college draft? temple has the #1 pick in this years college draft…snoops son is going 3rd overall
I don’t think Chip needs a star running back nor wants to pay for one.
Oi, what are you still doing here?!
shopping
I agree. DeMarco is not on the table. Especially with his 800 carries last year.
I think Kelly would pay for one if he was more Marshawn Lynch and less Lesean McCoy. There is rumors that Kelly got tired of McCoy’s tendency to run E-W instead of N-S
I got tired of that too.
Yea he always had more of a committee approach at Oregon too
Rotating though 2nd / 3rd / 4th round draft picks every 3 to 5 years in the mix with a mid-level vet could work.
I’d love to see Cobb or Johnson as a guy we add mid rounds to the mix.
The only thing I’m not up for is POS Barner.
Found out the other day Johnson has 1000+ carries from being an FCS workhorse back for four years.
I havnt looked at Davon House at all, but this article make it sound like he would be a perfect mid tier option for us
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2015/03/05/22-cb-davon-house-fit/
I have always thought Davon would be really high on our wish list if he got free from GB… everyone expects Maxwell, i wont be the least bit surprised if its House!
somebody just posted this on Twitter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07fZQRU7G2Y
How on earth didnt I notice Maxwell was from Clemson before now? and and he even body slams people.
#nextDawkins
wonder if chipper was really there to talk to maxwell’s coaches / staff.
I honestly hope The Eagles aren’t interested in Adrian Peterson. I’m a Dad and can’t accept any person doing what he did to a 4 year-old… and then bragging about it to the child’s mother the next day.
I don’t think it’s in play.
I seriously hope not. I don’t care if he played RB like Superman – I don’t want him on my team.
I would be utterly shocked. Not because of character issues, but simply because of my perception of the value chart that Chip uses. I do not think he thinks he needs an elite RB. His trade of McCoy further backs that up. And while Peterson is a much better RB than McCoy (despite Shady’s self proclamations), he is not that valuable to Chip. So, if Peterson can get you 5 Yds per carry but costs the Franklin Mint, and Polk/Sproles/Spiller can get you 4.5 yds per carry but cost less aggregately than Peterson, isn’t that much better? Less reliance on one back, more diversity, and fresh legs. To me, in this era of the NFL where the passing game is king, the RB just needs to be functional when asked to block and run the play as designed. Neither of which were McCoy’s strong suit…..
i would cheer the signing of AP like a rabid maniac
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and if I can go back in time and know what i know, i would try and get Lawrence Taylor…maybe try to get Aaron herrnandez and keep him locked up like Hanibal Lecter except for when its time to play on sunday…dez bryant too!
I agree and think you make a great point.
AP wouldnt’ be a Kelly call. No matter that he’s now Czar Kelly.
LURIE would have sign off.
And, yes, Lurie agreed to Vick — who actually served hard time — but only after a great deal of lobbying from outside sources, including Tony Dungy.
Who exactly is going to bat for AP?
I just had a crazy thought. What if..we signed Byron Maxwell and drafted Byron Jones?
!!!!!!!!!!
I wouldnt mind that as long as Byron Jones is not happening before late 2nd.
I honestly think we’ll get Jones if he’ll last to our 2nd pick. He has everything that Chip values.
dont think there is anything crazy about that… signing a corner has nothing to do with drafting one… a front office wants to make sure it has a good mix of veterans and young players being groomed at a certain position…. we dont have a single young outside CB being groomed on our bench… so even if the eagles signed 2 free agent corners which I doubt, we still probably will have to get a young outside corner to start being groomed in our pipeline
It would hark back to the days of McMillian and McMillian in the secondary. Of course, one of those guys would have to sit on the other’ shoulders and combine like Voltron to meet the current height requirement.
A question regarding pass rushers in the draft?. What is the order of the OLB/DEs for people here regarding the Eagles?
For me it goes:
Bud Dupree (raw but super athletic and perfect size)
Vic Beasley (question about his run defense, but guy can rush the passer)
Dante Fowler (great size/speed combo, but still raw pass rusher)
Randy Gregory (little light, but a good athlete, crazy potential)
Gregory
Beasley
Dupree
Fowler
Hunter
Eli Harold and Danielle Hunter scares the shit out of me consider how raw they still are.
imagine having to hear this fanbases mouth about another rookie who is too raw to play;;; spare us
and Marcus Smith is much less raw than both of them
Fowler, Dupree… no one else 🙂
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_ZE_a4WAAA26VS.jpg
Hall of Fame post.
chip is a mob boss…. invites you out to dinner.. when its over, he kisses you on your cheek, you walk out the restaurant, and two in the back of the head await you..
…
if you are one of chips guys, he will do anything to have you here, he doesnt care if he has to draft you 3 rounds early. Chiips guys aka the adopted ducks Celek, Meco, Maclin, all be back next year no matter what it takes. chip the big shot caller gets what he wants…. and if you arent one of chips guys, you wake up with a horse head in your bed and shortly after, 2 in the back of your dome… and chip just keeps it moving…
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chip making Andy’s players walk the plank!!!
Yea, you’re just about right. My hope is that Chip’s way will work in the NFL. He has yet to demonstrate that success though he certainly deserves a couple years to play out his plan. I’m in his corner for now because, as an Eagles fan, I have to be. I truly hope Chip turns out to be the Godfather because the alternative really stinks.
I think Chip is a smart guy. However, I do have to admit that I am a bit nervous. We are completely going all in on his ideas in such a manner that if he fails and moves on in 3-5 years, we will be a doormat dealing with misfit players and lacking elite talent. If MM is the plan, I am even more nervous. I firmly believe that there have been very few QBs within the last 15 years that would warrant selling the farm to move up for. Off the top of my head, I would say maybe Luck? I cant really think of anyone that was so much of a can’t miss that it was worth it to throw away years of draft picks to obtain.
I think you express the situation very well. We all want Chip to be the smartest guy in the room, and we all want him to succeed. At this point, though, honestly, who really knows?
As for MM, I’m not in favor of anything near an RG3 type deal. Even if the kid is the best qb in history, every player is only one injury away from a train wreck. Just ain’t worth the gamble.
The guy with the most at stake here is Jeff Lurie; guess here is that he has given Chip something approaching – but not quite – a blank check.
Biggest gamble, of course, is Mariota. As an org, I think they would be wise to consider what they believe MM is worth, and then not go beyond that if (when?) the bidding gets crazy.
I have to admit, the curiosity / what if factor in respect to a Chip / MM combo is getting the best of me – at this point, I’m actually rooting for it to happen.
Oh, to be a fly on the wall during these deliberations / negotiations… Waiting for the draft is starting to feel a bit like being a kid during the lead up to Christmas.
no worries for jeff lurie, think people won’t come to games? think they won’t buy jerseys? as long as he keeps the chicken tenders on point he’ll be fine.
westbrook echoes the sentiment about Ingram and alabama backs being volume runners who need 20-25 carries to get it going. ingram not my ideal back for taking snaps out of the gun every single play
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the eagles want sproles on 3rd down, makes no sense to pay good money for at best, a 2 down back…
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keep in mind that not every free agent RB will have interest in running out of shotgun every single play… assume the RB gets filled via draft..when you can draft whoever you want and make them run out of whatever set you want.
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slap a band aid on the RB position and make sure to draft Zeke Elliot next year!!
really dont get why everyone makes so much of this ILB situation… Truth is, replacing Meco for Alonso is awesome, but the point is to build depth at LB.. yuo arent building depth if you swap one player for the other;. its not rocket science, Meco already came back from an achilles 4 years ago and looked like crap his first year back from the injury and wasnt right til year 2,… so how can the eagles go into a season counting on him to start when they already saw that he needs two years to overcome an achilles? Meco will be on our bench this year, and next year he will look for a new job..
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everyone saw his first year back from the achilles, NO ONE would pay him and offer him a starting job now, so mufasa has to stay…
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as for having dinner with a raw rookie who needs years to grow as a LB, not that big of a deal if you ask me…we need to build depth/. also have a feeling that by the time this offseason is over we have a plethora of LB who are all really solid in coverage…
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mykal, kiko start, Meco bench… and nothing strange about us deciding to also draft an ILB to groom…
Yeah… it might be a little overkill at one position, but not so much when you consider that two of the 3 top ILBs we have are coming off injury. Plus, if you decide you don’t still need all 3 you can cut Meco at any time before the season.
im sure we will adjust his money… at the very least give him a bunch of it up front so it doesnt screw with the cap…
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Goode has been a nice promising young player.. but he isnt so good that he should kick his feet up and have a backup spot on lock…. build a beast of a LB corp..
Mariota or not, if you really have two young ILB with years ahead of them playing together, you should not invest a 2nd rounder for another ILB. I don’t care about BPA. Two young studs, you don’t need a great talent (and a 2nd rounder SHOULD be a player who EVENTUALLY starts).
If Kendricks doesn’t get traded, like we all hope, we don’t need young high ceiling talent behind them. You can always sign a cheap vet and have undrafted guys like Acho or Goode as #4.
Allocation of resources would be terrible if we keep Kendricks/Alonso and invest a high draft pick for the position.
the eagles are not going to draft another ILB in round 2… eagles gather info on every single prospect they have interest in for down the road… i certainly dont expect us to draft this kid in round 2…. but the eagles are going to speak to atleast 50 kids they wont draft… cant make too much out of doing due diligence… but as for our ILBs.. goode and bad jones shouldnt bd going into camp having two roster spots on lock… they should have to compete against legit threats to take their roster spot….. harder it is to make an eagle roster the stronger we will be as a team..
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say the kid fell to round 4… be nice to know him well, in case we have a shot at getting a kid at unexpected value(later in the draft)
I bet we are going to speak to TEs and DLs even tho we wont really need em unless a super talented guy falls in the draft.
Lets say Anthony drops to the 3rd round and he is by the far highest rated player, you either trade back and get more draft picks or you just take him and realize you can never have too much depth (see Niners drafting Borland with Willis and Bowman already in place)
absolutely… heck we are going to talk to 37 QBs that have no shot at getting drafted by us… we will look at kickers for crying out loud
so everyone is convinced that MM will become an eagle, yet we still worry about a LB in round 2? where the hell are yous getting a round 2 pick if the MM crap is true?
For trading Nick Foles of course!! (and yes Nick Foles is worth minimum a 2nd and most likely more)
no shot he would ever be traded for a 3rd round pick…if we trade Nick, the draft pick is going to the team letting us have the hawain Football God.. “the great Hawian Hype”… not so we can get a pick to draft a LB…jesus christ reincarnated.. MM the god himself
Depends on who we end up trading with. If its the Jags, no need to include Foles, but it would instead be a player like Kendricks, CUrry or Boykin (if they want a player)
even if the team we trade up for doesnt want a QB, we trade Nickl to another team and use the pick we got to trade up for MM
We only trade Foles if we already has Mariota, so I think it works the other way around
good point….unless we talking trade up to 1 or 2
yea if we trade with the Bucs, Foles is 100% part of that deal imo (I think Lovie Smith sees Foles as a perfect QB for his system)
And a significant step up from Glennon.
Bucs owner probably thinks Foles is the next Montana after how foles been carving up the Bucs defense since his rookie year, walk off homerun in tampa
That’s a great point. Teams often base an overall judgement on a guy based on how that guy did when playing their team.
very true
Not necessarily. What if Tampa takes Winston. Tennessee passes on a QB all together and we end up trading up witt, let’s say, the Raiders and they don’t want Foles bcause they are sticking with Carr? We end up including Kendricks in that trade and get a second back for Foles in another trade. I’m not advocating for this. In fact, I’d be really disappointed. Just saying it’s not completely out of the realm of possibility.
we cant have foles and MM here at the same time… not in this ridiculous city,… if the team we trading up with has no use for foles, we will get another pick for Foles from another team before the draft and use the pick we got from foles in the trade up instead of using kendricks..
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plus Curry would be traded before Kendricks… think a 4-3 Bucs team wouldnt love Curry? way more valuable then an ILB, yet we can extend kendriocks longterm, where as we probably have to lose curry anway…
I’m not convinced to be honest. It’s fun getting caught up in all the hoopla though. I’d be shocked if it does happen — but my vision is a healthy Foles leading the offense…
preach
No one is “convinced”. It’s clearly a possibility -even if remote.
i would say talking about it every single day for 3 months may be “convinced”
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there are 3000 other possibilities?
That’s just another demonstration of your language skills, I guess.
and of your delusions… atleast be honest with yourself donkey.. you all believe the bullshit, have the bals to own it atleast LOL hee haw!!!!
Most intelligent people would concede that it’s possible Kelly would make a radical move for a player he wants.
Since talking about the NFL in March is probably the least meaningful discourse on earth it’s fun to toss around these unlikely scenarios. Because -you know- this stuff is incalculably trivial.
This news makes it sound like Kelly won’t be moving up in the draft. If we have to move up for Mariota, we will most likely be giving up our second round pick this year. Anthony will be a second round pick.
D3FB made a point that you’d meet with a bunch of guys who you can’t draft no matter what because you need to have strong data on the guys in case they become available in the future.
Howie have also said the same. When they talk trades and look at FAs, they start with their own draft nodes on a player and then suplement with film work in the NFL, but for some players like Nadje Goode, the NFL part is really small so it was 100% done based on their scouting notes
out of all the tea leaves, I think meeting this recruit should get the least amount of value.
not exactly some secret
No, but he was the first person to bring that up yesterday.
My OP was directed at people saying Kendricks can be used as trade bait to move up and get Mariota. Then we take a ILB in the second round.
I’m of the opinion that if we do trade Kendricks to move up, we’ll bring in Brooks Reed to play ILB with Kiko. I would draft ILB much later than 2nd round in that scenario.
Kendricks is a free agent next year, so teams may not want to trade for him knowing he can walk next year. Eagles should re-sign him before trying to trade him.
I think having him agree to terms with a new team would be a close pre-condition of a team taking him in a trade.
d3fb is very good. However, a kid in college is going to be a ton different in 3-4 years of NFL time. It’s a good knowledge base I guess but there are so many variables that come into play in those 3-4 years, that data is probably rendered useless….
still doesnt change the fact that its what front offices do…whether we think its valuable or not is another debate
Which is why I love Chip. Teams have been doing that for decades(like sheep). Many of those teams haven’t won a damn thing. Chip thinks outside the box(my argument yesterday).
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I tend to think teams meet with a ton of players because you don’t know who or when they’ll be available during the draft — not for years down the road. You can hit any number of websites that have a write up on kid in a draft.
doesnt mean he is going to turn down MORE info, he might interpret the info differently, but he isnt a stubborn ignorant human who would turn down a chance at MORE INFO… he isnt exactly close minded… and every year he will interview like 50 people that will never be eagles… dude has detailed tendancies on all the officiating crews… THOROUGH is his middle name
true.
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But why would he bother if he’s only going to current and ex-Oregon Ducks? (kidding of course).
you are right… as we speak he is working to try and trade away the rights to our “eagles” nickname
I also think Kelly likes to have as much info on every player out there as he can. As we’ve seen he is very active in pro days. It’s called scouting for a reason. I’m sure these scout reports come in handy during the season when you end up facing these players that they don’t draft. Information is priceless.
You also never know how the draft will play out. Maybe a guy you have graded in the second falls to the third -do you make the move to get him? Other scenarios are plausible as well.
Were putting too much stock in an interview we interview so many dudes
I think people are putting too much stock into EVERYTHING Kelly does.
basically,…. gonna be alot of disapointed people because of months of being brainwashed by false expectations… fans are gona be pisssssed! when in reality they have no right to be. eagles didnt mislead them. not their fault the media is dumb, clueless and absurd and puts absurdities in fans minds til they start to think its reality
I think it’s funny how we went from There is no way it’s possible the Eagles can move up from 20 into the top 5, to, There is no doubt Kelly will move up to draft Mariota.
lol so true,,,people saw his punt return skills on display at the combine and lost their damn minds as if it was a secret that he was fast
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you want to throw the ball with someone who runs fast? call a friggin WR reverse pass play then….get me an immobile stiff who will sit in the pocket all day chuck it and shred you!!!
Not me. I will be sick to my stomach if we give away the farm to get MM. I think Foles is a solid young QB who has not reached his ceiling yet. I also have a strong belief that qbs that really on their legs in the nfl are either frequently hurt or stunted in their growth.
church!!!! preach it!!
fans are gona be pisssssed!
hell yeah. I will be definitely drunk this weekend when ‘tampering’ starts tomorrow! 😉
I don’t understand all the angry posts about who’s being traded or what draft pick(s) etc etc when nobody has a clue as to what — if anything – is going to happen.
I hear you there, but I think it’s good to discuss parameters, lines in the sand, etc.
good “what if’s” scenarios I guess. I’m interested in the FA signings. That’s going to be a nice ride….
Anthony seems to think there might be interest from the Eagles, insofar as he retweeted this tweet, which suggested that the Eagles had interest in him:
https://twitter.com/dukes_mayo/status/573504696549273600?cn=cmV0d2VldA%3D%3D&refsrc=email
Or Beastly!
He’s going in the top 10. Don’t think we’re trading up for him.
Yea i know. in another post i wrote that what if trading up for mm is actually for someone else
herremans visiting the colts
I hope he signs there. I have a secret crush on the Colts (not a Jernst/Chip Kelly crush)..but I do like them…maybe has to do with Luck bringing my fantasy team to the championship(then score a .3 for me..ugh, the memories!!!)
haha…I don’t necessarily want to get it on with Chip. I’d just feel absolutely compelled to if he pulled off that trade rumored out of nowhere above.
In all honesty I’m pretty warry of Chip and trading away 3 drafts for Mariota. I think Chip’s gonna go all in to get him, but I’m in no way saying that’s what I would do or what I want him to do.
just having some fun :). Chip may love Mariota — but Chip is still super smart. He’s not going to mortgage the farm just to buy a great cow. IF Chip made a play, it’s going to be a smart play and not a desperate play.
What if. .. it really is all a smoke screen. .. moving up as high as 2nd is not for MM… but for Lenny Williams. . :0
Jk.
i would sacrifice a virgin in honor of chips awesomeness! Cox and Williams? whats there to think about?
Mychal, curry this n next year’s 1st? I would kinda do it. and pick up ILB here in the 2nd./3rd
Where’s aub32…..
Yesterday you tried to smack me down for suggesting a Kendricks deal, today the media has taken the reigns and now they’re running with it. Backed up not only by the fact Meco is still around, (which hopefully is just until the trade become official as suggested by someone else), but the fact we’re working out MLB’s slated to go in the first 3 rounds. Where there’s smoke….
I love MK Ultra, and the prospect of he and Kiko in the middle gets me giddy. I’ll be devastated to see him leave
ill smack you down for suggesting to deal kendrickw today!!!
I’d run out in traffic if I thought trading MK Ultra was a good idea
suh signing with the dolphins…. give us dion for vinny and they have Curry, Suh, Cameron wake… brady and shady are scewed LOL
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miami herald saying dolphins sound real confident suh is theirs… i assume its between Miami and Jags when talking about no state income tax on a 100mil dollar . how about our governor help it make it easier to attract free agents?
dolphins are a crazy franchise. already have really good pass rushers, but not wrs, no rb no cap space.
yeah but they cant beat the Pats without putting a beating on Brady… they wont out QB the Patriots,, they need to be stronger then the Pats in other areas…. you know they will draft a WR high to pair with Jarvis
Mariotta needs to come out and say he only wants to play in Philadelphia. Pull a John Elway/Eli Manning.
if he doesnt publically say it we shouldnt even consider trading up for him.. need his help pressuring the franchises not to take him or other franchises not to want to trade up and deal with a headache,, even if he takes a way a tad bit of their negotiation leverage it helps…..but he is like a hawian/mormon/amish boy scout… he will never say that
Pearl 3 of the draft season:
“hawian/mormon/amish boy scout”
What do they say about idle minds being the devil’s playground? we could be reading too much into everything…
of course we are
Yea, I’d really have to laugh at myself if draft day rolls around and GEAGLE was right all along, and we draft a CB at 20 and Chip comes out and says Nick still has 998 years left as our QB and all these moves were just prudent conservative moves that made sense on their own.
I just can’t wrap my head around the notion that Chip wrestled control away from Howie because his ideal vision was an offense where Nick Foles hands off to Chris Polk and throws jump balls to Riley Cooper, while we sign the most obvious FA CB available and take BPA in the draft.
he didnt wrestle control away from howie, atleast that wasnt the direct intention…. .. he baited howie into declaring war by calling him cap boy basically on the radio..howie attacked(fired chips boy), chip flexed his muscle, knowing Lurie would be the laughing stock of the world if he lost chip after year two,. and chip took advantage of howies attack…howie played himself, went to war with someone who had too much leverage after only 2 years…consequently howies desk is on the other end of the building now….dont think chip actually was planning on pulling a power play after last years end to the season… just took advantage of a howie mistake and capitalized
Ok….or I coul just paraphrase all that by writing wrestled control away. But ur right it wasn’t much of a fight
We?
the “royal” we.
Heard a completely unsubstantiated rumor (so please don’t ask for a link or blast me for how ridiculous this sounds, just wanted to hear peoples thoughts). Buddy down in Tampa said rumor is out down there that Eagles trade Foles, this years 1st and 2nd and next years 2nd and 3rd for the first overall pick and Mike Evans. Personally, I’d consider that highway robbery and would head down to One Novacare Way and blow Chip Kelly while giving Howie the finger if he pulled that off. What are your guys’ thoughts on that (the trade…not me and Chip getting it on)
whats to discuss? we would have agreed to it yesterday
Yeah and then traded out on draft day to the redskins for 31sts and laugh like madmen!
They are discussing the deal on the Giants website message board. But, the rumor they heard was:
Eagles @EaglesFanTalk · 3h 3 hours ago
Rumor: #Eagles get: #1 pick, and Mike Evans. #Bucs get: Nick Foles, Eagles 1-3 rounds this and next year. And rounds 1-2 in 2017. Jesus.
That seems like an awful lot. I’d be seriously concerned if the Eagles gave up 7 picks in the top three rounds of the next 3 drafts. Even with getting Evans who we can reasonably count as a first rounder that’s this years 1st rounder (20), 2nd and 3rd, next years 2nd and 3rd and 2017s 2nd rounder. 6 top picks for MM…he better be Jesus Christ with better abs.
that deal came out of no where. for us to get to mike evans from 20 probably would have cost us 2 firsts
That last part is the part I really fear. If Chip does the deals being bandied about to get MM, he’s going to have the weight of the world on his shoulders for the foreseeable future. He better be the product of Montana and Luck, or he’s going to crumble under that pressure.
people are getting carried away. Why not include the two turtle doves and pear tree?
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it’s fun to come up with a trade the makes some kind of sense … this is beyond reach. If someone was to say it’s Foles and ?? are traded instead of all those picks. That’s just a bit silly.
LOL reporting has gone to shit!
that was couple days ago, from mike missanelli. he rec’d some email and ‘acted’ like it was a source. he later backed off. paraphrasing, not in philly, but this was discussed on sheil’s blog the other day.
if it’s true their gm isn’t trying hard enough.
he’s trying to get fired, and doing a great job at that
done deal, i’m getting my keys and driving down to TB to get my man Evans! this cant possibly be enough, without including Evans.
It’s bogus. It started with a tweet from someone claiming to be a relative of Ryan Day, then Mike Missanelli was asked about it on the radio, which morphed into Missanelli reporting it.
Figured. Like everyone else I’m just grasping at straws. And, since I heard that thought it was a decent place to start a discussion on what would be an acceptable trade
J:
Hard to top that vivid imagery.
FA names to consider — Ed Dickson, TE 6’4″, 255, former duck, former raven
if the eagles get MM, i have a feeling it will be much cheaper then we think… i hear that RG3 trade changed the game in terms of trade compensation and I heard we will never see a team pay as much as washington did going forward, not even if you trade up from 20…. i hear the RG3 robbery kind of changed the value and what teams are willing to pay.
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wonder if all the absurd rumors about eagles giving away evcerything, 13 draft picks, kendricks, foles,, is rumors starting putting it into our minds that we will pay an absurd cost, so that when it turns out to be much less expensive, no one will complain that chip got his goldenboy if we were expecting to pay a much steeper cost….. figure, atleast we didnt trade kendricks and half the absurd amouint that was rumored….my conspiracy, makievelian mind cant help to wonder..
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feel like nothing is as it seems this time of year and there is a reason for everything that we “hear”
Yea i remember when (i think) Miami traded up for Dion people were surprised that it wasn’t that expensive? I know it was around 13 to 3 n they traded only thier 1st and a 3rd (or something like that)
yeah it was like for only a 2nd rounder because they had two 2nds that year….very cheap
I am hoping you are right. Would not surprise me for us to go, that’s all we gave up? that’s not too bad.
Jets trading for B Marsh the WR…
damnit. oh well, scheme fit. i guess nick foles better get familiar. that said (a) bears fucked marshall sending him to qb hell, but he can easily do showtime now, (b) gonna be tough with the dbs in that division.
they need a #1 wr for Marriotta development!!
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J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS!!!
Thank goodness
brandon Marshall was traded east…anyone know to who?
jets
one post below…
weird..my browser froze
sure your just trying to take my shine, hahaha..
Jets got Brandon Marshall for Marriotta!
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giants linked to Rahim Moore
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andy Reid interested in Hartline…. must miss Kevin Curtis..
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Orakpo says he wouldngt mind being a cowboy…scumbag
Jets
The only way trading Kendricks makes any sense at all is if there is something medical or character that we don’t know about him. He’s flat out stud material for ILB, he can fly sideline to sideline, he can deliver punishing hits in the hole, he has a nose for the sack on a blitz… I know he’s not elite in coverage but he has good speed and can keep up with people coming out of the backfield no problem.
Would make no sense. I see him as one of the best young ILBs in the league. Not Kuechly, but a tier below that.
Hard to argue with that, but if it comes down to MM or no MM…?
No MM then
Probably agree with you, but I don’t think Chip would
no way some LB is the great blockbuster deal breaker. work around it… they can have young talent we cant re sign like curry
Yeah. I would see Curry, and Boykin be trade pieces before Kendricks, or Cox.
it would NEVER come down to a LB,… there is always another way… heck a 4-3 edge rusher like curry is more valuable to a team then a LB… no way some LB is the great blockbuster deal breaker
I think people are overestimating Mariota’s appeal outside of Philly. He’s not a slam dunk scheme fit for any offenses besides ours. I don’t see Lovie or Whisenhunt linking their future to him. I don’t see Bowles doing that either. He’s not Luck and people aren’t going to go after him like he is. Maybe he’s RGIII, but that doesn’t look so appealing right now. Jax, Oak, and Was are unlikely to draft him. I don’t see any teams willing to give up what we would to move to 6, much less give up more to jump ahead of us if we were at 6. I guess it only takes one person to fall in love with him and blow the whole thing up, but if you take a step back, the trade with the Jets makes a lot of sense for both teams.
it’s not about how good mariota is, it’s about how much teams know we want him.
so call their bluff.. lets see how willing they really are to spend a pick on a kid who they have to trash their pro offense and install a college offense to give a shot to succeed..if not, lets see them spend a top pick on a QB to run their pro offense who hasnt called a play in 4 years, or who hasnt thrown a simple snap from under center for years… whats this acting like a bitch, bending over and allowing us to be raped for whatever they want? fuck that! call there bluff…show me that you will spend your top pick on marriotta for your pro offense…show me! i dont believe it! if they liked him they wouldnt consider trading him….show me that they will spend their pick… enough with this submissive bitchass ness. we arent talking about the invaluable mona lisa of pro football. enough with the nonsense
so if you’re the jets you’d rather roll with geno smith? or zach mettenberger if you are titans?
if the Jets liked marriotta… they wouldnt even take our calls.. they would be worrying making sure no one trades ahead of them… if you believe in a QB, you dont pass on him
they could probably live with foles, as could most pro style teams, which is why a trade with the jets (or titans) makes the most sense.
i agree, but id still call there bluff and make them draft marriotta without having a deal in place to rape us..fuck that! if they want to play chicken, they can draft marriotta and we still have the foles chip to talk business afterwards.. if they are afraid to risk it marriotta falls further and so does his price nehotiating with the team that eventuially drafts him
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matter fact, i dont believe there is a single friggin team, in the top 19 that would want Marriotta instead of Foles! id bluff them all,. NO DEAL IN PLACE waiting to rape us.,.fuck that!@.. if they have the balls to draft him anway, we can talk Foles for Marriotta, when they are more desperate to trade for the QB they would rather have, get some compensation to save face, but not rape us…
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Our GM cant be as big of a pussy as everyone is pretending him to be… i dont believe it.. i dont believe anyone wants this kid high in the draft and i believe they would all be willing to trade him for foles… so show me who has the balls to draft him with no deal in place with us..;.i dont believe it! enough acting like the cleveland friggin browns.. yall think like the browns GM LOL wake up
Interesting theory, but what if you’re wrong?
Also, it doesn’t fit with Chip’s philosophy of go get what you value, perceptions be damned.
what if im wrong? these head coaches dont have years of job security any more.. dealing with a first round rookie is enough pressure for them with the lack of security they get…who the hell out of these old boy NFL coaches feels like going full college offense or having to groom an impressive young talent ;like him who mihgt be the most under prepared QB ever to come out of college from the pro game considering the difference in the style of play he has been playing…wisenhuntm, fisher, love, who the hell wouldnt rather have promising young pro style foles in year 4, way more ready to win now with a good team around them, and get some compensation out of us in the process.
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i could understand if there was a jim harbaugh or some other college coach picking in the top 15…but i dont believe any of the old boys coaches would rather start over from scratch with Marriotta, then get some compensation and a young pro style QB thats ready to compete right now? alot of these teams have some scary defenses and nice piees in place.. who the hell wants to wait for Marriotta? he hasnt called a play in 4 years? he hasnt thrown a slant under center in years? who the hell besides chip wants to go shotgun 100% of the time so that they can win now with marriotta? fisher? wisenhunt?
we should be playing these stubbborn old boys fools, not getting played by them…philly lost its damn mind… where are everyones balls? trade away 13 first rounders, kendricks, cox, foles, why stop there? throw in the eagles nickname for a QB no one really feels like dealing with, who the hell even has the job security to deal with him these days? not some first time assistant turned headcoach. who the hell is dying to go shotgun 100% of the time for some kid? who wants to scrap all the pro philosophies they spent years cultivating to go shotgun? show me one of these coaches who would even consider it
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if we didnt have chip, we would never want MM over Foles…so why would anyone else?
Basically you’re saying there’s no way you’re wrong…
And we may never know the what-ifs, given the secrecy, the bluffing, etc.
Your arguments make a lot of sense, but QBs bring out the crazy in many GMs, and if I’m a betting man (and I’m not :), I say some other team(s) emerge as competitors at some point. And I also think Chip won’t dick around – if he feels he’s close, he’ll pull the trigger.
Having said all that, my hope is that Lurie puts some parameters on the pursuit of Mariota. At a minimum, someone in the Eagles’ organization has to play the role of devil’s advocate.
Id be willing to deal with the consequences rather then cripple our ability to put and sustain a top team around whoever the hell the QB is….
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It SHOULDNT be THAT big of a gamble, you should have a good idea about what you can get for Nick. Im sure you have recieved many offers already… If a team has made the offer, you know their is interest… plus when you have a high pick and you get in the position where you are forced to end up drafting someone you arent 1000% sold on, draft day can be jittery, nerve wrecking stressful as time winds down… could end up getting a much more favorable negotiation point waiting untyil the last minute..
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we should know how bad each team wants Marriotta, and if they have made offers on Foles in the past, and what were those offers…
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im just assuming that chip is too smart be played by the old boys club… I assume he plays them in the end..im assuming Foles becomes a more attractive trade chip then we think, when being compared to Marriotta
yeah but those GM REALLY have to LOVE the QB to really want to draft him, in which case they wont trade him… if there is any willingness to trade MM, then in their mind there is some doubt especially if they are a QB needy team… Being pressured to take a QB you dont love, once you feel that pressure and your on the clock, sometime trading back and getting more value starts to look really good. no GMs get ripped for Punting and getting more value.,
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and y ou should know which franchises showed interest in foles in the past and what level of interest. which GMs/Coaches are on the hot seat and dont have time for MM to grow to save their jobs
perceptions be damned? and allowing yourself to be played and raped crippling your ability to build a quality team to win with are two different things… comparing apples to cheesesteaks…. im talking about achieving the same goal, but paying less for it…how the hell can that be a bad thing?
I didn’t develop the theory or endorse the philosophy… don’t kill the messenger!
fair enough… meant no harm/ didnt sharpen my knives this morning..be easy lol
These negotiations don’t take place in the public arena… The closer we get to the actual draft, the greater the role bluffing plays in the process.
i dont believe anyone will touch him before the rams.. so id bluff him down to like #15 and trade ahead of KC…
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even if jeff fisher calls our bluff and takes him, he has a pretty stacked Roster ready to win minus a QB, id bet we can do business with Fisher as long as we still have the foles trade chip… i dont believe the jets or the bears will take him.
Wow, that seams very unlikely to me, but I hope you’re right
i dont believe there is a single team in the top 19 that would rather draft marriotta and scrap their pro offense, instead of having Foles and some modest compensation… I dont believe uit, and I would bluff all 19 of the top teams.. ..even if they have the balls to draft him with no deal in place, they will still talk business afterwards as long as we have pro style foles trade chip..
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id bet Marriotta falls all the way to KC, And Andy has the balls to take him and flip him for Foles and get a pick or two out of us…
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show me who has the balls to draft this kid who hasnt been grown for the pro offense..show me who is that willing to install more college principles then any offense besides the eagles…i dont believe it…show me
the entire theory comes down to foles true value… not the media or the talking heads value… we have a very unique situtaion.. we go shotgun 100% of the time, and there happens to be a talented kid who mastered playing the game a way no one is really playing to the extent that we are….. if a team loved him, they wouldnt even take our call… if you are willing to take our call, the fundamental root of that desire is wanting to trade back and get more value in return for your asset…. the question is about how do the pro style franchises value Foles, compared to Shotgun Marriotta… knowing 2nd rounders, and Josh Gordons have been offered.. im willing to bet that Foles, the 20th pick, and some other small compensation gets it done… and if a team is willing to do business with us before they draft marriotta, they will take our call afterwards.. negotiating out of of Blatant desperation is ALWAYS a losing proposition no matter what we get in return-sun zu art of war…actually i just thought of it but it sounds like something that would be in the art of war lol
oh boy here come all the comments as to why did we give up anything why didn’t we just sit tight at 20 and pick him there.
no… id bluff his ass down as far as i can, and talk business with the team that drafts him..i dont believe anyone of these coaches is dying for MM
Ok, as someone who has been thinking Chip would just give whatever Tampa wants to make sure he gets his QB, I can begin to see Chip taking Geagle’s advice. A coach taking a QB in the top 10 is betting their job on this QB. A top 10 drafted QB is usually given at least three years to learn and grow. If this top ten drafted QB fails after three years, then team has been failing for three years, and that usually means out with the QB and out with the head coach. MM seems perfect for Chip, a “multiple Super Bowl winning”… for Chip, and a risk for any other coach.
So call their bluff. Browns, Rams, KC, Jets and some other dark horse might jump up and pick MM, but if they do, then Chip could call them up and eventually offer all of the picks Chip seems MM is worth. I think for Chip this would be a lot of picks and it would make it impossible for Browns, Rams, KC etc. to not accept, along with Foles.
So instead of trading multiple firsts to Tampa now, just wait for an easier trade in 10-15 range, and if someone jumps up and gets MM, worst case scenario is to offer whatever you would have offered Tampa, if the dark horse team forces you. But don’t force yourself to give up multiple firsts now because you value MM more than anyone else.
You make a lot of sense, but nonetheless I would be surprised if some team didn’t not come out of the woodwork to challenge Chip and perhaps even make a deal for MM too expensive.
What about the Bears, for example? Don’t know how much interest there is, but there has been speculation.
browns..KC
Just hard to see it really happening. Anyone who puts so much of their future into a move up to get MM is essentially tying their future to him. And, if you’re projecting him into your offense rather than knowing whether he can do it for real, it’s a much bigger risk than you would expect from the usually risk-averse NFL coaches, particularly one like John Fox. Now, that being said, we have seen all sorts of crazy things happen in the past, like Denver trading up to draft Tim Tebow in the first round. But, would you really expect the guy who had to come in and play with Tim Tebow as his QB for a year (admittedly winning a playoff game with him) be the one to mortgage the farm for Mariota?
Yeah, you wouldn’t ordinarily associate John Fox with MM, that’s for sure. But it might not be his decision. And I only used the Bears as an example – their could be others (like the Browns as somebody else pointed out).
More importantly, when people say Mariota doesn’t fit a pro style offense, I think they’re selling short the degree to which he can be developed… And the degree to which other teams perceive that he can be developed.
Pat Kirwan has some great insights on that argument – perhaps there are more suitors than we realize…
So many seem to think Marcus Mariota has a mountain to climb when it comes to transitioning from his college offense to the NFL game. Can he take a snap under center, can he call a play in a huddle, can he read the whole field? Since he enrolled at Oregon many NFL offensive minds have gravitated toward the college game and it’s not just about Chip Kelly and his Eagles philosophy.
Granted, the Eagles quarterbacks only threw 53 passes from under center while calling 688 pass plays from the shotgun. But most NFL quarterbacks throw more from shotgun than from under center in 2014. Before I get to the wave of young quarterbacks led by Russell Wilson keep in mind Philip Rivers threw 95 percent of his passes from shotgun, Eli Manning85 percent, Romo and Rodgers 82 percent and even Brady 68 percent.
The only quarterback I could find that threw more from under center than shotgun was Joe Flacco, who was 62 percent under center. Flacco is getting Marc Trestman as his offensive coordinator this year and he called plays for Cutler last year who threw 78 percent of the time from shotgun.
Many of the offensive coaches in the NFL are either labeled west coast or influenced by west coast principles. The father of the west coast offense, Bill Walsh hated the shotgun but as you can see times have changed. In 2014 the 32 quarterbacks that threw the ball the most threw from shotgun 74 percent of the time and Mariota will be right at home.
When it comes to quarterbacks running from shotgun young players like Wilson, Colin, Kaepernick, Cam Newton, Ryan Tannehill and Blake Bortles did a lot of damage. Mariota will more than fit right in with that crowd. Did I mention Mariota runs 4.5 and rarely throws interceptions? In college he averaged 6.6 a carry and scored 29 times while throwing a pick 1:83 throws. He’ll do just fine in the shotgun running an offense that is unique to him but similar to the trends in the game.
There were 88 throws over 20 yards last year at Oregon with 19 of them going for touchdowns. As I plow through them there are a significant number of times he finds someone other than his first read and they are all in shotgun.
scroll down…. because you posted this id be interested to hear your thoughts when you have time
I don’t disagree with the premise of your argument(s), other than to say that our media and fan base is driving a lot of the crazy speculations and (mis)valuations surrounding the likelihood of such a deal. There’s a long way to go before all the teams have their draft boards set. I could see a GM value MM above a position of need and draft him ahead of the Eagles.
Well argued. And as I said somewhere else, when it comes to QBs, there’s no limit to the imagination that GMs are willing to apply when contemplating how the “clean slate” of particular college QB might fit within their organization.
I just think, before it’s all said and done, their will be other suitors, and the price will be high. I hope I’m wrong…
I think Ingram might be a good player to pick up. He won’t break the bank and he can run hard and break tackles. He could be a monster with this healthy O line paving the way for him. I liked watching how hard he ran last season and there is no reason to believe he won’t be really good at the very least in Chips offensive scheme.
westbrook disagreed for whats its worth,….. i dont see what anyone sees in him that would make them want to run him out of shotgun all game..not even sure he would sign on with us to run out of the gun
yeah i’d prefer someoen with a background in a spread offense.
Someone perhaps, like Jay Ajayi in round 2 or 3?
there’s lots.
can sproles and polk not handle the load..loved watching sproles take handoffs last year.. so explosive. and polk can handle 200 carries this year.. does it have to be a 3 headed monster?
i wouldnt want to see ingram take carries from Polk and sproles… ingram cant even seperate himself from the 3 noname scab backs on the saints roster,.,and you want him as our #1 back? for who? for what?
I never said #1 back, he could be a complimentary piece. In Chips scheme, we need could use several RB’s but I was only referring to Ingrams running style. He runs downhill and if he had a half decent line blocking for him, I think he does well.
why pay for a complimentary back? you can draft one and pay him 500k for the next 4 years
he’s too injury prone, especially for all the hits he would take.
eh he was.. maybe hes cleared that a bit.. but your aren’t wrong at all.
and Westbrook is no dummy. LOL. IF Sproles and Polk weren’t here, maybe Ingram should be looked at … maybe.
M. Colston staying with Saints. Thank goodness. We didn’t need him here…
yeah i considered but he’s basically and older j. matt.
Every time I hear of a player with name recognition like Brandon Marshall being traded for something like a 5th rounder, I just think… why not us? Probably in the same way every team we played thought about Sproles last year. Sigh. We could even throw in Cooper with our 5th!
Want no part of Marshall… so happy the Jets have him
i don’t like great WRs either.
The dudes got legit mental issues, but he’s being treated/medicated and hasn’t had the issues he’s had ni the past. The Jets are the kind of place that will bring those issues to the forefront, though, so I’m hesitant to blame him for any of his upcoming, uh, “outbursts”.
31 Tds last 3 yrs, yeah thats terrible.
And you are shortsighted.
They’re loading up on weapons for Foles
We don’t want him… about as good a “culture” fit as Dez Bryant
Said this to the other guy. His behavioral concerns are due to mental illness and not maturity. Since he’s been diagnosed, treated, and medicated for it, he’s doing just fine.
I think Bears mgmt would beg to differ. Personally, I’d pass.
10 players and former coaches all came out ripping Cutler recently. Anon of course but Brandon has been fine per locker room and maturity for a while now.
Wait, Anon was ripping on Cutler in the media? And here I thought he was loyal to Iggles Blitz with sharing his opinions.
Wow is that all they got for him? I know he got hurt and had a down year, but 31 is not old for a WR, especially one that relies on his size. And, his contract is pretty reasonable over the next few years too.
Yea just like when the jets got Percy Harvin for just a 6th rounder.
Oh wait.
Not sure of the point you’re trying to make? With the bust rate of 5th/6th rounders, that’s a trade off I’d be willing to make.
it’s funny in the non-tamper period that dolphins can be sure they’re going to get suh.
I saw a rolling stone article last night about a new documentary about rape on campus and under the headline there was big picture of J Winston’s face.
apparently in the doc the girl that accused him tells her full story…
the rape kit test was positive for Winstons DNA but charges were never filed.
it doesn’t really matter if he did it or not, the only thing that matters is perception of the public, and this looks pretty damning.
My question would be how will a team draft him in the environment of the NFL today? they will, sure, but I just started thinking maybe tampa won’t at number 1.
I know people have known this story, but when the accuser is now in a documentary telling her story, it isn’t looking better now, it’s looking worse.
I mean after this past year, you know?
to be clear I am not debating the merits of her story or his guilt, just the perception and draft.
Nothing is new. Of course his DNA was on the kit, there was an admission of intercourse. Unfortunately for the victims, the forced rape is the harder part to prove.
the new part I think will be her telling her version of the story in a movie as opposed to hearing reports in the news.
yup, and this is being released around the draft also as Im sure they are timing it that way on purpose. Should get interesting. Everyone seems so sure hes going to Tampa, but does anyone truly know, insider or not. They could change their mind, be misleading etc.
exactly, I saw his picture under the headline of campus rape and I didn’t even need to read the story to assume this guy is a rapist…
terrible the way that works.
yeah even worse, I sit there and think, tampa is taking mariota…..
YES!!!!!!!!!
haha I knew you’d like that!
This is a pet peeve of mine and maybe people will think I’m being insensitive, but prove to a jury or judge in the court of law that the allegation is true before we classify the accuser as a victim. It is mind-boggingly stupid IMO and contrary to the court’s responsibility to assume the accused is innocent until proven guilty that the identity of a person accused of rape is made known to the public but the identity of the accuser is kept secret. Such shield laws insert a bias with the jury and in the process that favors the accuser and assumes guilt on the part of the accused. Sorry for going on a political rant in a sports forum.
how is that political? but whats far worse, and dont get me wrong being wrongfully accused and smeared is awful, sometimes the defense lawyers release the victims name on purpose. They also go out of their way to smear them. That to me is much worse. When you read how few rape kits actually even make it to the testing phase its despicable. Throw in the shaming, pain and difficulty of reliving that for the real victims, only to come up short is just disgusting. That and knowing this person can continue to commit those crimes (as they often do) and get away with it. Its the toughest crime to prosecute and just bad all around.
I think the accuser’s name should be released to the public. As long as there laws that require the courts to release the names of those accused of a crime, then the names of accusers/witnesses should also be part of the open court record. While I understand the motivation behind the shield laws, I think they fundamentally undermine the court process because the very nature of them assume that the accused is guilty. I don’t think the defense lawyers should go rogue and ideally no details on either side would be released to the public, but you have to treat both sides equally. Laws based on the assumption that an accuser is a victim run contrary to that.
Posted this above, but here’s a link to the transcripts with testimonies/sworn statements…a good read…
http://espn.go.com/pdf/2013/1206/winston-inv1.pdf
We’re well off topic from Winston at this point, so…
I’m with you that the accused should not automatically be assumed guilty. Where I disagree is that it is also mindbogglingly stupid to assume that the accuser is lying. If you want to remain neutral, I can certainly understand that, but neutrality in this case favors the accused rapist and not the alleged victim. Noting this bias, and knowing many women who have been raped and whose rapists will never be charged (I’m a social worker. I make poor life decisions.), I can’t agree with you that the biggest issue is that alleged rapists are being treated unfairly in the court of public perception.
pretty damning? he said they had sex. she later said rape, of course the rape kit is positive. who knows what happened.
there was a FS investigation (weak), a police investigation AND a title IX investigation investigating the investigation that occured after all the press and all came back negative, at some point you gotta let the guy live.
right, I was just thinking this will bring it up fresh and with only her telling her side it won’t sound good im sure.
if you’re considering him you’ve got to come to peace with it. hopefully once he gets a contract he can settle w/ her. that sounds terrible, but i don’t see any other way to resolve the situation.
its kind of like the one part of the ray rice video comes out and people come to peace with it in a way, but then… the other part and it’s like whoaaa this is worse then I thought.
that’s what im thinking will happen.
if they had a video of the sex it’d be different, but it’s he said she said. i know of people that have gotten kicked out of school for less.
FS, like NFL makes it worse b/c they dragged their feet on the initial investigation, if they had just been thorough with it people would buy the result.
it’s like Eric Garner or Mike Smith, bad shit happen undoubtedly, but from a legal perspective there’s other things you’ve got to prove.
well that’s my point, forget legal perspective, this is about public perception really.
yeah, i honestly don’t know if there’s anything he can do about it.
That’s why I always say, no sex until you sign the consent form for the videographers.
that’s how chuck berry used to do it… naked polaroid’s to show consent.
he’s got a lot of them it hink
I read that, in front of a Florida judge, both parties agreed there was sex, but the woman swore that she said “no” more than once. Both had had a lot of booze, and when judge asked Winston if the woman said “no” he said not that he heard. Judge asked what made him think she wanted sex, and his FSU gol dang answer was, “…because she was moanin’…” If that testimony is in the documentary, Tampa Bay will become NE south where winning teams rationalize their integrity.
“it doesn’t really matter if he did it or not, the only thing that matters is perception of the public.”
I’m not on the everybody needs to be a role model train. They’re paid to play football not watch your kids. But I do draw the line at rapist. It matters to me. We just won’t ever know for sure.
“We just won’t ever know for sure.” it’s been investigated by 3 separate bodies. at what point do you let it go? innocent until proven guilty?
I believe in innocent until proven guilty in then legal sense, where someone’s freedom is concerned. But in real life, when it’s one person’s word against another, I don’t believe in assuming one way until proven another, and if I had to, I’d give that benefit to the alleged victim, the victim gains nothing but justice, typically it’s not worth lying and getting into a legal dispute over for so little gain. Takes a lot more courage than people realize to come out and say you were raped. College rape is a very dicey thing, ETOH+ immaturity+slut shaming+ an alarming gap between genders on what is and is not considered rape. It leads to shrugging and everyone going on their way like nothing happened.
Indeed. Pretty sure the numbers back this up. Just saw a show where a guy chopped a girl up, carried her out in a suitcase and it was on video (carrying out, not chopping up). Had already been accused several times prior. They still could barely get the guy until they luckily found another victim in a different state to ID him. The evidence was so friggin obvious yet they couldnt do a thing until that other victim who they randomly found was willing to testify. The circumstantial stuff, even when a victim would have no reason to make it up, just never holds up either in most cases.
Not saying you’re wrong, but it’s important to note that “innocent until proven guilty” only applies to the state’s actions. Private citizens are generally free to assume your guilt and act accordingly.
my bad, I certainly don’t mean it doesn’t matter to me, I meant public perception is what matters more then proven guilt or innocence.
Since Rolling Stone threw UVA under the bus with its last rape article, without even trying to verify any points in their story, I wouldn’t start looking to Rolling Stone now as any credible news outlet.
well im sure they are credible when it comes to movies coming out, and that’s all this was about , a new documentary.
are you kidding? did you read about the UVA story? they didn’t even try to interview anyone. How is another form of storytelling different or more credible?
I think they can report that a new movie is coming out and be credible about it.
it was not reporting about the rape, it was simply saying hey this doc is coming about about rape on campus.
they didn’t make the movie.
ok I thought they made the movie. I still hate them though. What they did was so unprofessional I can’t believe they all didn’t lost their jobs.
yeah I know what you’re talking about, that story was pretty sensational I guess, but the fact that’ should not be lost just because they did poor reporting is, that this shit happens way more then people realize. 100,000 sexual assaults on campuses every year. gnarly
259 reported rapes in Stanford, one expulsion between like 1999 and 2006 or something.
I hear you but it doesn’t excuse it at all. I read so many “well the story could be fiction but they brought light to an area where schools suck” but I just don’t buy it. It was a story about gang rape that was likely entirely fictional. No one was interviewed. That’s called a first person account. It brought horrible attention to the school. Saying, well at least people were talking about rape does not justify the story.
yeah that’s true, they screwed the school bad, and that’s not right. that’s not reporting at all. there are enough facts and incidents out there to write a real true story that is more meaningful.
Agreed it happens way more than we realize or should and we should continue to raise awareness where we can. The unfortunate part is people lie and cry rape too. See the Duke lacrosse scandal and Brian Banks as examples. They are the ones who have really made it difficult for the true victims of rape.
ya, read the comments under any new RS article and youll find a ton of UVA comments. Its ridiculous at this point. The other writers and staff shouldnt be lumped in. The editor and that writer should be fired, Id be surprised if that writer can ever get another gig but Ive heard plenty of really bad stories about horrible writers/journalists getting continued work even with bad reputations. Almost like that old any publicity is good, once the name is recognizable.
It basically killed the New Republic when they had a similar screw up.
NYT has survived it several times over. So has Fox News. It’s more common than most realize. To those calling the shots at news outlets, eyeballs are more important than professionalism. And honestly, it’s been that way for a long time – just with the advent of the internet, it’s now more common for them to get called on it.
RS took a big hit, but they were scammed by the writer, I thought.
you aren’t scammed when you are a reporter who doesn’t fact check anything.
Rolling Stone hired the lying son of a bitch reporter, but do you think for a moment that RS purposely published a fabrication? RS suffered a big credibility hit, and they have to be accountable. I think this slipped through editing process, but don’t believe it was orchestrated.
yikes……… people always pop up at the perfect time to dig that knife as deep as possible and Twist it!! what will it be released the week before the draft? lol TIMING is ALWYS the BITCH!!! kill em with timing!! what a powerful tool “timing”
timing is everything.
your right the draft will probably make the movie more noticeable.
Personally, this guy’s history would give me a LOT of pause… but that’s just me. Still, hard to see this story (or documentary) really impacting what TB has already decided about JW and their potentially selecting him; i.e. I’m sure they’ve already done a ton of due diligence (including how he may be perceived by the local fan base and media).
Interesting to note that if it was the intent of anyone to time the release of this story to the lead up to the draft, it ends up having minimal if any impact on is rookie contract.
If I’m Lovie and I want Winston, and I foresee controversy amongst the faithful, I say bring it on…BUT I will go overboard to get in his contract a stipulation that all this money is null and void if ANY legal matter involving a woman arises, other than a divorce.
There’s enough other evidence to make me think he’s an idiot, but I believe the rape test kit testing positive for his DNA only proves they had sex, not that it was rape. There may be other medical evidence suggesting that, but the simple presence of his DNA does not. That said, I wouldn’t touch him if I was drafting high. There are other positions where you might be willing to take a little more risk character-wise. The QB is supposed to ber your leader and the face of the franchise. I wouldn’t roll the dice on him.
that’s really all I was talking about, is tampa really taking this guy at number 1? sounds sketchy.
and really forget the evidence if people are going hear her side and not his In the movie, it won’t look good…..
Rothlesburger had a string of rapes.
If you’re really interested and concerned, here’s the court transcripts with testimonies…an interesting read…
http://espn.go.com/pdf/2013/1206/winston-inv1.pdf
wow. thanks, it sure doesn’t sound like just sex consensually does it?
Every NFL team will get the nitty gritty from him, the girl, and anyone else involved. Just like the police did. The DA didn’t charge him because they didn’t think the could convict him. That means he probably didn’t rape her.
is that what it means?
or does it mean they just couldn’t convict him?
which could mean he did and they couldn’t , with the evidence convict?
oj didn’t get convicted either
Are you suggesting that if he has that Teflon quality in the courtroom that it might increase draft value based on possibly translation to the NFL playing field?
Anybody who still thinks cutting DeSean without anything in return was a good decision I will punch in the face.
a punch in the face with nothing in return? I’ll pass
reminds me of Joe Pesci. I demanded $100 ($200? I forget) but instead you offer to kick my ass? that is what we lawyers call a counter offer. I decline.
surprised anyone cares at this point. We lose Maclin I might start punching people
Get your fists ready then.
mac stays in the end
Mac is hitting fa. His value Wil inflate, why would we do that if we were keeping him?
its not our choice… we wouldnt, mac has us by the balls.. eagles get to keep him, just not as cheap as they would have liked… wait for a bad team to set his price, and give us a chance to get into the ball park, and we have no choice to say yes,,, chip gets what he wants, he wants Mac.. he will give us a litle discountf from what a bad team offers him which is usually the highest offer. bad teams pay more
I read somewhere a stat saying that as soon someone hits free agency the likelihood of that free agent signing with his former team is around 20%.
doubnt it in this case… I think Maclin wants to be an eagle and he would NEVER sign before free agency anyway, because he assume the market will aid his negotiations, not the eagls.
..
npormally you are right, but in this case i dont think anything would have kept Mac off the market. he has no reason to, we will still want him, and we will maintain in close contact the entire time,.. mac would be dumb to sign before free agency.. he can end up getting like an extra mil or two out of us by waiting… he knows we still want him. what are we gonna do? save a mil and sign tiny Cobb? for what? a mil or two?
I feel you. Would prefer Mac to Cobb as well I just don’t see it as likely as you. Wouldn’t be mad if I was proved wrong though!
when its an obvious negotiating stance, when i see a guy just using his negotiation leverage, i dont get to worried.
..
if you want Maclin to stay, take solace in that Chip gets what he wants… if he will draft who he wants 3 rounds early, he will pay 2mil more…. he doesnt really have a choice, you created this beast jettisoning Desean and being wrong about Riley…now Mac sees Cobb asking for money why would he just give in now… Now if Chip comes up to Maclin and says final offer, if you insist on hitting the market you wont be an eagle, then we have problems and the situation changes…. the only close to competition is cobb, and chip cant go into a season with two second year WR and Coop…. might as well pay an extra mil or two more then settling on cobb and write it off as paying for avoiding the unknown and keeping our continuity.,
…
we dont have a very good hand to play, and maclin knows it… it will be worked out, just not as fast as we will like i assume…. some bad team will make the highest offer and Mac will give us a chance to get in the ball park of thaT NUMBER GIVING us a tiny discount so he can play on a better team
..
m not very concerned
When did he sign last year? Before FA iirc. Soo I dunno.
I view it as a lesson learned…McCoy deal was stealth, and likely the result of loose lips destroying any trade value for DeSean (he still didn’t get paid what we were on the hook for)…
I cannot prove this, but I think there was a good faith effort on part of the franchise to restructure Desean with a lower gross, and he wanted no part. I think there was an 11th hour fire sale of which only a handful of GM’s were notified, and they wanted to give up a pick only if more than Desean was included, because he came w/big price tag. I would have thought that they could offer Desean, heavy contract and all with a fifth for a fourth, but apparently not.
I never, for a brief instant, believed the media inferences that character, gang-bang BS was behind his termination. Eagles wanted a clean slate, and time seemed to be a factor. I doubt that Desean would have made playoffs more probable last season, but that is an opinion that doesn’t confirm your challenge and therefore should leave my proboscis intact.
haha…I’m still shocked that they couldn’t get ANYTHING…I mean really…not even a 4th round pick and the peice of mind that we get to send him out of the division? I really thought some Aaron Hernandez level dirt was going to show up after his release to have that make sense. But, nope apparently a prime of their career WR that’s the best deep threat in the NFL coming off the best year of his career and a pro bowl could not be traded for a sack of peanuts. Howie should have lost his job for that alone.
Howie should of lost his job, because Chip cut him. Makes perfect sense.
It was a joke…but I meant that Howie was responsible for working the phones and trying to get something in return for him. Jimmy did some great detective work and put the peices together that we were moving on from Djax and then that troll at nj.com, ESP, put out that absurd hit peice and we ended up getting nothing in return. That’s what really stung. Imagine if we had gotten a Kiko Alonso level talent in return for DJax last year. I hated to see Djax cut, but I’m ok with that part. Just would have wanted to get something in return.
If Foles is on the Jets throwing TDs to Brandon Marshall and Decker, Im going to be pissed he isnt on the eagles throwing to Marshall and Maclin
.
Agree.
You know who should be our competition for Mariota? The Giants. Eli Manning is due an extension. No way in hell would I give one to him. They probably could convince another team that he is still(or ever was) good. They could get a good return for Manning and are already at #9. Could probably trade up to #2 very early. They gave Coughlin the one year extension out of respect for past accomplishments but they can let him retire after this year and either promote Ben McAdoo to head coach or find a new HC specifically tailored to Mariota’s skills.
doubt andy is thrilled about having a QB who hasnt throw a TD to a WR all year
It’d be hard for KC to get as high. Unlike us, they don’t have the cap room to compensate for a potential lack of draft picks.
browns….im not sure anyone wants him top 10 . dont know what to beioeve
ugh
Most HC will want to pick their own guy. Giants will wait until Coughlin is out before investing in another starting QB. Say what you will about them, but they’re a well run organization and would probably give their new coach free reign to develop the player he wants.
Giants have always been a team where the GM picks the players, not the coach. I’m sure the HC has input but compared to the rest of the league the draft process is GM driven.
True, but actually think the majority of franchises follow that model. Eli was (former Inquirer reporter) Ernie Accorsi’s gambit, and the football gods must have been pleased to grant 2 SB’s to him. Or maybe they were blackmailed.
That’s a good point.
Found this clip on the internets today. It brought me great joy. Figured I would share it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZR1QIjOajA
Outstanding pickup and putdown. Thanks!
Looks good, from the sound of the announcer the first safety blitz they did had great success though.
Clicked on one of the thumbnails after the video because I thought I saw an Eagles jersey. It was the play back in 07′ or so when Sav Rocca got crushed by Antwan Barns.
if we get Mariota, mark it down we will open in Foxboro.
While this piece is on linebackers I have some questions on cornerbacks. What is the argument for hiring two better than average corners or two well better than average corners versus one blue chip corner and one slightly better than average corner? What defensive strategies does that suggest and what opposition offensive strategies does that suggest?
I have to disagree with your recent Fandemonium post. I do not believe that the Eagles will look to replace Herremans with the current slate of backups for two reasons. First, the Eagles want a top notch offensive line in particular because Foles does not do very well under pressure. But in general the offensive line is always a priority as is the running game for Chip Kelly. Secondly, I believe that the Eagles have thoroughly analyzed the reason for all of the turnovers in 2014 and have concluded that many were attributable to the offensive line and a good number to Herremans in particular. So it makes little sense to replace him with someone who isn’t as good. Particularly since the team only saved $2.7 in cutting him so why compromise the whole offense for such a relatively small number.
Eagles fans are rightly wondering what Chip Kelly has in store for personnel additions in both free agency and the draft. Clearly the Eagles are going to be big players in free agency but what type of free agents will he seek. In his two years to date Kelly has shown good judgment in first building the offensive and defensive lines. His first two first round draft picks were an offensive tackle and an outside linebacker (sort of a lineman in a 3-4). He transformed the offensive line from 4-3 to 3-4 thus creating a top defensive line without over paying big time free agents (How about that Conner Barwin.). His other free agent additions have been value picks that were supposed to be scheme fits and he has not overpaid. At the same time he is cutting overpaid players whose salary got too high. But those deals like most NFL deals are structured to cut the player after two or three years. So maybe Kelly will lose his head and give away the next three drafts to get Mariota but there is nothing he has done so far that would say that is his style. And need I add that most of the sports writers who are jonesing for Mariota have a tendency to make up stuff or at best have sketchy sources.
i have a feeling we like Nolan Carroll more then people think, and plan on starting him on the outside, so i really cant see us signing two, but we will have to draft one because we have no young CB being groomed on our bench.
..
fair warning, hope for Byron Maxwell, sexy and expensive, dont be disappointed if it ends up being Davon House…
i think they also want a better look at Jaylen Watkins also….
no idea what will happen with him… if i had to bet money on it, i would say Nolan Plays outside and Jaylen Takes over Nolans dime corner responsibility… but jaylen is extremely smart and will probably get a chance to compete at safety, outside corner, and inside corner so who knows, he could out perform the dime role for all I know…
i was excited about that pick last year… but i think Maxwell and either low draft pick/cheap FA also for depth will be added…. but i agree i think Nolan is gonna get a shot this year.
Mosher tweeted that there’s a lot of Nick Foles to Jets talk on NY sports radio. Doesn’t mean much, because sports raido isn’t a reliable medium, but noteworthy none the less.
Saw this trade suggested on twitter:
Eagles get: No. 2 pick
Jets get: No. 20 pick, Eagles’ 2015 2nd round pick, Foles
Titans get: No. 6 pick, Eagles’ 2016 1st round pick
That would work for me. It’s reasonable, without giving up the farm. It doesn’t value the difference between the #6 pick and #2 pick anywhere near the RGIII trade, but most agree a trade like that will never happen again. At #6, the Titans should still be able to get a good edge rusher. By the trade value chart, our #20 pick and our 2nd round pick would get you to somewhere between the 11th and 12th pick. Foles’ point value to get to #6 is then roughly 370 points which translates to slightly worse than our own current 2nd round pick. That’s slightly worse than what I think Foles’ trade value should be, but it’s at least in the ballpark.
wow, i’d do that now. Wish Mike Evans were involved. We can still grab a solid RB in the third.
2015 1 and 2
and 2016 1 + Nicky sticks?
If that’s the trade i wish we got B. Marsh.
like i said, if the deal gets done it wont be half of the absurd prices being thrown around… people lose their minds and think chip is brain dead. the compensation being thrown around is disrespectful to the intelligence of our coach… does he look like Boo Boo the fool? chip plays the oldboys NFL club, not the other way around…
I agree, i have a hard time accepting that even if Chips absolutely loves, needs and longs for Mariota, he is not gonna get played and pay the Redskin ransom.
done!! I’d take it. Then I’d circle the calendar for the next time we play Arians because I want 50 points.
This better happen, I am way too excited.
You really think MM will be plug ‘n’ play? Arizona comes to the Linc next season, and if the Eagles start MM and put up 50 points I expect a global depression the following week will kill the buzz.
I want 50 I don’t expect it.
The problem is though: I don’t want Winston.
You’re assuming TB takes Mariota? I’d agree that you probably wouldn’t want to actually make the trade until Tampa selects.
agreed, but i just don’t see Lovie taking Mariota.
“Erratic” Winston verses “Project” Mariota. That is the question for the Bucs. http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=133019&cpage=3
OD what’s the latest?
It’s too quite. No one is saying a damn thing. Is no news good news?
no I don’t think so.
I honestly don’t want to sell the farm for one guy. That being said; the suspense is killing me.
Agree, and also agree with your comment the other day about enjoying following a team that is competitive year in and year out.
Yesterday you said quiet would equal deal undone
always a quite before the storm. No one at all had whispers to go on regarding McCoy to the Bills. I have a feeling Chip is doing all the talking with other teams and he doesn’t talk to ANYONE, probably not even within the organization.
Wanted to add that by the trade value chart(at thehuddlereport.com), the value of a next year’s 1st round pick is 1000 points which is also the difference in point value between the #2(2600 points) and #6 pick(1600 points). So the move from 6 to 2 part of the trade above is exactly on line with the trade value chart.
and we keep Kendricks!
and Curry, Boykin and Cox!
That trade is significantly more palatable than any of the trades I’ve seen around here. I like Foles, a lot. But if you’re selling the farm for Mariota, you’re going to lose him in a year anyway. And you’re only losing the one additional first, which I can live with.
We’d be giving up this year’s 2nd too.
Yeah, saw it. It’s just that that feels significantly less substantial than multiple 1sts and 2nds/3rds in future years.
We would be trading up fra 20, we were always gonna have to pay a significant price. With the proposed trade, we lose Foles, but gain Mariota and Chip has his QB. We lose our chance for a top prospect this year, that was always gonna happen if moving into the top 5. Losing the 1st next year hurts, but we’re not in a strong negotiating position, and still, we’re getting our Franchise QB, or at least the QB Chip hitches his Philly wagon to.
With a strong Free Agency, i’d take that trade in a heartbeat.
I’d add the Eagles get No, 2 pick + Jet’s 4th round pick to get the trade “up” to Foles’ full value.
I think if you can accomplish your goal of getting Mariota, you don’t dicker over exact value.
Please be a buyer the next time I sell anything of value that you want, then! 🙂
I just wonder if the titans would move from 2 to 6 for a future first rounder. Definite possibility, but I think with our clear overwhelming desire to land Mariota that they might hold out for a little more.
I’d do that in a heart beat. If Chip can get his man at QB by trading up to the second pick all the way from #20 for an extra 1st rounder next year and a second this year that’d be absolutely amazing and a lot less than we thought it would take.
Really interesting. Who was it proposed by? Seems to benefit all parties
Saints are apparently shopping Junior Galette (OLB/DE), he’s 26, 6’2″ 260 pounds and had 10 sacks in 2014 and 12 in 2013. Current salary is only $800K. Any interest?
would be perfect. wonder what the saints want in a trade.
Oh well: But Galette, 27 next month, got into some hot water with the law after
the season, as he was arrested for domestic violence and simple battery
before later being accused of sexual assault
Yea not sure what happened there. I know nothing about his incident. Just saw it reported that the charges were later dropped.
according to the report they’re thinking of outright releasing him if they can’t find a trade partner. Definitely a red flag since he’s young, productive and they just signed him to a big deal.
yeah my guess is cinci will get another pass rusher.
I can smell gang ties… lol!
Um… he has a 1.25 million salary this year. Oh, and a 12.5 million roster bonus. His cap number for the Saints is 15 million … if we traded for him, we’d be on the hook for all but his 1.6 prorated signing bonus. Don’t think this is happening, though he’s an obvious candidate for release by the Saints who desperately need to clear cap room.
The problem for the Saints is that that roster bonus is guaranteed.
Never heard of a roster bonus being guaranteed…! Why not hand out a Signing Bonus instead to at least pro-rate the gtd money over the remaining life of the contract? This would be lowering their cap..#LolSaints
How can a roster bonus be guaranteed? He earns the roster bonus whether he is on the roster or not? That seems to defeat the point.
Great word play aside . . . I think the guarantee may concern conditions under the CBA that allow a team to recover bonus monies. That is, the guarantee language in the contract trumps the conditions in the CBA otherwise available to a team.
Interesting, yeah. I guess that is set up to be able to convert to a signing bonus, letting them spread the hit out more. That would cut $10 million off this year’s cap number (at the expense of future years), but I guess if they can find a taker, they can save almost all of it and not affect future years. Those prorations actually count towards the 120% of “current salary” you need to pay to franchise someone — that is why Suh’s franchise tag would have been 24+ million this year, since they played that game twice with him, converting salary to signing bonus and pushing out the cap hits. The combination this past year was huge. So doing that kind of thing can limit your options on keeping the player later on.
I would think that we’d only be on the hook for the 1.25mil after June 1st (or whatever date they’re using). If he goes somewhere else before then, then I assume the new team is responsible. They’re probably shopping him so that they don’t have to pay it. They’re 28mil over the cap (or were a couple days ago.)
He probably needs to be paid sometime in March. It’s probably possible to convert it to a signing bonus which spreads out the cap hit, but either way it’s only worth it to trade him if some other team pays him that bonus and therefore counts against their cap. If the bulk is going to hit the Saints’ cap anyways, you might as well keep him.
whoops…yea i saw that after I posted….not a well researched post
Stef Wisneiski (OG) leaving raiders. Think D3FB had good things to say about him previously. Cant wait for FA.
He could step in next to Kelce and be his backup.
It seems Chip has adapted to the NFL game, of course, and is trying to find the inefficiences in how the salary cap game is typically played. He very likely has developed already some profound Chip’s rules on the salary cap (involving player ages, positions, how long they will be an Eagle until needing replacement etc.) that we will keep trying to discern. It is likely Chip is working on how to take advantage of rookie deals. Some positions could be slated to be filled mostly by rookie deals, ie. running back, wide receiver. Other positions, ie. QB, offensive tackles, could be slated to be filled by elite level players who will get paid to play 10+ years.
One huge factor for a decision on Foles is that Foles is going to be in the last year of his rookie deal. If the 2015 version of Foles is not lights out, I am not sure how much Chip will want to resign him. Will Chip be content with resigning a “solid, competent, 10-15 ranked starter” for 5+ years? Does Foles have to play like the 2013 Foles in order to be resigned? MM would have five years to prove himself. Foles only has one year. But at the end of his one year, if Foles plays poorly, Marriotta of course is playing for the Browns already. Oh, then Johnny Football will be available. And we all know Chip recruited him… But actually, this is what would happen, we as fans will have to sit through next years offseason with Johnny Football trade scenarios and a whole new QB class to sift through.
It would be nice to get MM and have good possibility of a few years (and possibly 15 years) of no “Who will be our QB” talk.
Given the amount of praise chip has heaped on Mariota, an the importance of of the QB position in the league and to the scheme, which is really built on the QB being able to execute every part of it, you gotta think mariota for the very reasons you’ve mentioned.
As we’ve seen with Dion, it’s hard, from a cap perspective, to get teams to move on from top picks, too much dead $$.
Hey Geagle don’t you follow MMA did you see Rousey broke the ribs of some reporter who volunteered to be thrown by her. Why would you do that?
though also, part of me laughs but part of thinks she could slow down and not throw the guy down so he gets hurt. With great power comes great responsibility.
Yeah I’m still laughing at that judo throw
you blame her a little or no?
She should a known better. She could have done the same umagachi throw but let go and slam him without crashing into his ribs. She knew exactly what she was doing lol Olympic judoka. She knee the difference between letting go of that throw and just slamming him and what happens if she doesn’t ley go and follow him go the ground lol
Part of being trained in MMA is knowing how to take a hit/kick/fall without serious injury. She’s used to people who know how to land properly (like “pro” wrestlers do) and let her muscle memory take over. Sucks to be him.
I’d let her break my ribs for the story, though. Worth it.
right I agree, I just think it’s careless of her to not realize he doesn’t know how to take a fall and just throw him down like that.
Ronda could have made the same judo throw without going to the ground and impact crashing into his ribs. Olympic judoka should know better. Surprised she didn’t get sued
Apparently, that video is from 4 years ago.
“The owner is placing a lot of trust in a guy who, 8-9 years ago, was
coaching at a Division [I-AA] school,” a league personnel man told the Philadelphia Daily News’s Paul Domowitch.
“He had some success at Oregon, but it wasn’t like he had dominating
success there. He didn’t win a national championship. There’s no one
with a great historical resumé making decisions for the Eagles right
now.”
Love this quote. Haters gonna hate. Yep Chip barely had any success in the past 8-9 years.
yeah not dominating, wasn’t Oregon 46-4 or something under him?
winningest team in the last 10yrs and most points i think as well or something like that.
despite averaging like 20th in recruiting.
Huh, I didn’t realize Howie is still calling himself a “league personnel man.”
then he said pipe down, Matlock is on now
Are you sure it wasn’t Banner?
Chip passes the eye test… I’m getting his jersey.
How is the quote a ‘hater quote’ when it is pretty factually accurate? Kelly was given the keys to the kingdom this offseason. Lurie has often done that here including with Rhodes and Reid.
It completely blew up with Rhodes and in the end with Reid too as the coach/GM.
Rhodes actually was pretty good on the personnel side. Some busts(Jon Harris) but he left Reid with a lot of good young talent. Remember Modrak wasn’t hired until May of 1998, after that draft.
Sort of like what Andy Reid did for Chip Kelly.
He had some success in the draft but overall it was a mixed bag and this roster was fairly barren especially on the offensive side.
When did Eagles ever have a decision maker with a “great, historical” resume? I think never. Unless, of course, we’re including Joe Kuharich and Marion Campbell.
Coaches Greasy Neale and Buck Shaw.
Coincidently, they own all 3 of the Eagles titles.
That just shows how long it’s been.
All that talk but look at his records at each stop. His NH was dominant with Ricky Santos and David Ball. Oregon has been a NC contender every year he was there.
It’s a lot of power and it will either fail or succeed…then again, those are really the only two options.
we’ve been “decent” for the last 15 years. I don’t think anyone thought that the roster we had was good enough to make it, especially not on defense, so i’m glad that we’re doing something about it instead of just being ok w/ being in the top 3rd of league.
“Informated speculation: jets don’t want MM”-Mort
…
Bluff them all!!! No one wants this kid top 9 atleast
.
Watch ever team back off him if u bluff
I think everyone is so deathly afraid because no one knows what the hell chip sees or thinks… the ol’ “they know that chip knows that they think they know, but in reality no one knows except Chip, that they know of.”
At the end, watch everyone back off drafting him if we play hardball
I read an article that it is like reverse from Luck/RGIII. The pocket QB seemed to good to be true that some had reservations (HA! Luck is the most ridiculous prospect I have ever seen), and the hybrid quintuple threat RGIII was making everyone salivate. A few years later and the NFL has regressed back to it’s former thinking lol.
Might be the most unprepared QB to come out of college. Push come to shove, I don’t believe anyone will have the job security to want to teach this kid. No one is gonna run a shotgun offense for this kid
They aren’t making all those moves to have Geno Smith throwing. Foles will be their QB, Eagles will draft 6th, possibly trade some picks/players to move up even more for Mariota.
If they wanted Mariota then they sign AP/Murray to help the run game. If they plan on Foles/Geno for 1 more year then you give him the best WR Corp. you can (Harvin/Decker/Marshall).
You don’t have 2 diva receivers like Marshall and Harvin without a QB they respect…no way Smith is their opening day starter.
Foles will light it up, and MM will struggle to start, and god help us all.
He will struggle like any other rookie QB, but I really like him long term in this system.
Byron maxwells people on the way to philly to chat tonight is what was just said late tonight!! Midnight chat lol
Apparently agent was in connetcutt(ESPN) leaked he was traveling to philly late tonight.
He was asked who do you represent B Max? And big slime!!!
TBH I got greedy after the release of Shady and Cole. With that much cap space I will be disappointed if the Eagles don’t sign at least 2 of the big 4:
Maxwell – McCourty – Mac – OLB
You mean his new agent???
Yes
Teams can start talking to players starting at midnight. So why not?
Teams can talk to agents. Can’t talk to players. Player’s can’t visit. Teams can not technically make financial offers but can articulate their negotiating position and make changes to it to reflect the negotiating position of the agent. It’s all pretty ridiculous.
I thought it was from midday tomorrow?!
Yes 12pm…noon
No midnight!!!
Lynch to be back with Seattle. New deal – according to Schefter.
Just wasted over half an hour doing this
http://i58.tinypic.com/2zfq4ut.jpg
On the contrary, you gained a valuable life skill.
One man’s waste is another man’s archeological discovery.
And I have the scatological evidence to prove it
Re: A Couple of Draft Questions in the Thread
1. Baloophi, aka, “the Great Baloophi,” wondered when a team last made a double-trade to move up to the top of the drafting occurred. (I’ll use the Top 5.)
A: 1985 . . . in a pair of screwy moves by the Vikings (which didn’t exactly work).
Minnesota swapped 1sts with the Oilers to move from 3 to 2 at the cost of a 2nd Rd pick the day before the draft.
On draft day, the Vikings moved back from 2 to 4, swapping 1sts with the Falcons, and getting a 3rd from the Falcons to move back two spots.
So in 24 hours, the Vikings moved back one spot by trading their 2nd Rd pick (No. 35) for a later, 3rd Rd pick (No. 68). Crazy.
(Yes, Vikings GM, Mike Lynn, who made the HWalker deal 3 years later, ran Minnesota’s 1985 draft.)
No team since the common draft in 1967 has ever leaped from the latter part of Rd 1 to the top by making two trades.
__________
2. Washington’s acquisition of Pick No. 2 in 2012.
The Rams did a sealed-bid auction — NOT a conventional trade.
A SBA is, generally, the best mechanism to maximize revenue on the sale of an identifiable asset.
The Rams, consistent with a true SBA, imposed the condition that it would not negotiate with the winner of the auction or any of the bidders. Nor would the Rams allow re-bidding.
Only Washington and Cleveland made bids.
The Browns Mike Holmgren has never revealed what he offered for the rights to the 2nd pick, though he swore his offer was better than Washington’s.
The optimal strategy in an SBA is to decide on the value of the item being sold and then discount the bid below the projected market-clearing price. (Smart bidders know this strategy so the challenge is figuring out the MCP.)
Based on draft-pick trade history, Washington took precisely the WRONG approach and over-bid for the Rams’ pick. Irrational offers, however, are typical in first-price auctions — which is what the Rams did.
Anyway . . . too often forgotten in draft-trade discussions about the price of moving up for a Top 1-2 pick to acquire a QB is that Washington’s offer to the Rams was NOT done in 1-on-1 negotiations — which hold prices down.
Thanks for digging this up, AC, and the SBA strategy is fascinating. So, normal theory holds that an offer less than market-clearing price usually wins the day?
Exactly.
Treasury bond market is the usual example.
It operates under something called the Revenue equivalence theorem — all these rational bettors figuring out the MCP
Great analysis as usual.
Marshawn Lynch cap number in 2015: $11.5m.
Over/Under???
Over
Under
Read it ended up being a 1-year, $11M deal but that’s unconfirmed. So you were close.
Should start putting money down on my gut feelings!
Called it!
Told you. Lol. Where is Bovada next time again? 🙂
Bad news for Mariota fans. Jason La Canfora is predicting Sanchez back to Eagles. Which would make sense if plan was to trade Foles and move up for Mariota. However, because JLC said it, we can assume the exact opposite will happen.
LOL. Pure genius.
What does it say about Sanchez’s league-wide reputation that Buffalo opted to pay a 5th Rd pick (?) for a guy slated to cost almost $5 million in Cassel, rather than wait 7 days to see if the team could cut a deal with Sanchez?
Or maybe it was just a Rex Ryans-Sanchez thing.
Don’t think it was a 5th round pick. Exact details not released but probably a swap of late-round picks.
I’m sure you’re right.
I had the Marshall deal in my head.
They gave a 5th up for the Vikings 6th but the Vikings also get their 7th next year
Nothing. Says that he likes if here and we prob promised him open competition with foles
Like I said get used to Foles, Sanchez and Barkley for one not year. It’s all bogus. Foles is the truth!!! Yeah I said it lil
awesome
He called the Cole release when everyone else said he was willing to reateucture
Anyone else see this? Can’t say I’ve ever heard of such a thing happening at a pro day before.
http://www.clarionledger.com/story/jacksonstatesports/2015/03/06/jackson-state-pro-day-turns-into-disappointment/24505849/
Sad. The same day some scouts dropped a bunch of hopefuls based solely on their 40 speed, i heard on NFL Network that top reliable No. receivers such as Larry Fitzgerald and B. Marshall don’t have great speed either. They are big and can CATCH the ball.
In my mind, here’s the thing about MM in Chip’s offense:
As it relates to passing – how many game film reviews were done last year highlighting open receivers that Sanchez never got to in his progressions (Chip’s offense does get a lot of receivers wide open)? While Chip’s passing game for the NFL is different than Oregon’s, there are enough similarities that I could see MM finding those receivers in his progressions – and with his ability to extend a play, what would a 30% to 60% increase in locating an open receiver generate points-wise in this offense?
As it relates to running – MM can run the IZR and OZR in his sleep. Just the threat of him keeping the rock is enough to provide an advantage in multiple situations. I think Chip views MMs ability to make the proper read, and to slide to avoid contact as the most important factors.
As it relates to packaged plays and tempo – I could see a DLman go into cardiac arrest at some point during the season with MMs ability to go tempo on an opponent (think MV’s first half pacing in the Washington game). Beyond his physical attributes, I think Chip views MMs mind as his greatest weapon.
Mostly, I feel like Chip views MM as his “Adam” in relation to a QB being fashioned in the likeness and image of Chip’s choosing for his offense. I think Chip wants to see how dominant his offensive ideas can be against the best minds and players, and that MM is the QB that can help answer that question…
Personally, I really like Nick Foles and would be perfectly fine with him remaining our QB – I still think he can/will become a top 10 player at his position. But, I have to admit the thought of Chip having his guy running the show without constraints is damn intriguing and enticing!
Agree. Make it happen.
Well said. Chip collaborated with Marcus on the evolution of this offense. While the NFL version has some West Coast Offense wrinkles, Mariota is a quick learner. I see his best attributes as extending plays, accurately hitting short and long throws, and quick/accurate decision-making. Can’t wait to see how he measures up against the best defensive football minds in the world. His rookie growth in Chip’s offense would be something to behold.
Still, weirdly quite on the Mariota deals; a complete shutdown of info. As someone mentioned here, maybe Chip is the only one making the calls?
OD:
There’s two sides to every phone call.
Where are the folks from the other end?!?!?!?!
Damn!
Loving the drama, however.
If I was Lovie Smith, I’d take Foles in a Titans/Buc’s deal with the Eagles. Foles is kinda like Brad Johnson who Buc fans adore because of his fearlessness in the pocket. Given Wintston’s throwing quirks and off-field issues, Foles might be a good fit in his offense.
If the Bucs could protect him, and Foles isn’t under the gun to make a quick transactional decision (the way he played in 2013 v. 2014’s emphasis on no sacks) . . . I think Tampa should jump that deal.
Tampa has talent. Big-time skill talent on offense.
And I still believe some of Foles’s trouble in 2014 was because of Kelly’s desire that he make quicker decisions to avoid sacks. Couple that with inconsistent line play and you had too many missed chances.
Thanks AC. Your assessment makes sense. I too suspect Chip put too much pressure on Foles too make quicker decisions. Chip was spoiled by Mariota, and I think he needs to better match his play demands to the skill set of the QB. Foles got a raw deal in 2014.
Come on… No NFL offenses want this gimmick kid
According to Daniel Jeremiah and Charles Davis’ latest mocks, Mariota is either going 6th to the Jets or 10th to the Rams. Both of those guys are looking at the actual needs of the teams in between and are not fixated on one QB of course.
Funny some dude just called the radio tfr oregon alking about how chip takes credit for Bilottis offense… If I could have gotten his address I would have sent u to take care of him
Maybe your source was sniffed out and black balled?
Literally could not have stated my feelings any better
I don’t think I’ve ever been more excited about Free Agency than I am this year.
The combination of cap room, available talent that fits our scheme, and Chip’s unpredictability is a pretty enticing brew.
Our starting secondary next year could be Davon House – Devin McCourty – Malcom Jenkins – Byron Maxwell.
And it wouldn’t shock me at all.
Just wish we got Cox + Kendricks extended.
Next four days should be fun.
If this is our starting secondary come opening day, I will have to buy 10 new pants!
Giving up my tix if they trade away the rainmaker. Fortunately chip is smarter then the gossip. Foles, Sanchez, Barkley for one more year!!!! Hype
998 years left!!!
Can I buy it?
how much?
I got 4 games per year…if Foles is traded you have first dibs… Good chance I won’t be in town for a few games anyway next year, I’ll make sure to let u know a couple weeks ahead of time to the games I don’t go..
Just realized something didn’t look right. FOles, why’d you fix it? Fix it back.
Lol it’s spelled normal when I type on my phone
Promise?
I am not so sure if he’d sell the tix to you…:-p
I don’t want them, just want him to give them up, and, um, stop posting here.
Can’t we all just get along? 🙂
No. Clearly not.
Re: A Plug for Foles
I commented a week or so back that I though Foles was the Eagles’ best 4th Q quarterback since Van Brocklin. By that I meant that, with the game on the line, I thought he’s given the Eagles the best chance to win in 50 years. [GEagle’s also beat this drum.] So . . . Here’s a 2014 comparative look at Foles’s QB rating, compared to Luck and RWilson, when (i) their teams were tied, and (ii) trailing by 7 or less in the 4th Q:
(i) Teams tied:
* Luck – 84.7
* Wilson – 97.5
* Foles – 108.3
(ii) 4th Q – Down 7 or less:
* Luck – 79.3
* Wilson – 80.9
* Foles – 80.0
Foles, unlike Luck and Wilson, didn’t play a full 2014 season. Don’t know what his numbers would look like if he did. And there’re other situational stats that don’t reflect as well on Foles.
But these struck me as pretty useful — particularly, the 4th Q numbers.
NOTE: Compared to Brady and Rodgers, the 2012 class — not surprisingly — has some growing to do . . .
Brady: 89.2 (tied); 102.8 (4th Q down 7)
Rodgers: 110.4; 97.3
[EDIT: statistics can be misleading, of course; and as I noted, some of Foles’s numbers are not so good relatively speaking. but compared to his 2012 compatriots, he’s doing very well — at least in these two areas.]
I mean….what are the sample sizes here?
The entire 2014 season — so Foles sample is smaller (as I noted in my comment).
The stats come from NFL.com.
http://www.nfl.com/player/nickfoles/2532842/situationalstats?season=2014
http://www.nfl.com/player/russellwilson/2532975/situationalstats
http://www.nfl.com/player/andrewluck/2533031/situationalstats
It’d be great to know which games had these situations.
Without manually pouring over the play by play, I don’t know the answer.
Best I could do, I’m sorry to say.
You can do better!! I kid I kid.
Great post as always!
So….
JAX was 17-14 Jacksonville going into the 4th Q.
Nick hit a WIDE OPEN Jeremy Maclin for a 68 TD after missing him all game. And otherwise completes 2 passes for 33 yards.
INDY was 20-20 going into the 4th Q.
Darren Sproles turns a screen pass into a 51-yd gain, and then Nick throws a 6-yd TD to Mac.
Then, starting on his own 40, Nick throws a 24-yd completion to Zach Ertz and a screen that Sproles takes for 17-yds. FG to win it.
That’s two games right there, and neither really say anything about Nick’s 4th Q ability
Small sample sizes are dangerous.
Edit: WAS was 27-27 if anyone wants to look that one up.
These games weren’t exactly against good teams apparently.
SF was another one, which I’m sure we’ll be blaming on Cooper for the next 5 years.
fair enough. Now please do the same analysis for Luck and Wilson.
MKSP:
No doubt. It’d be better to have 5 years’ data.
But the data set’s relatively the same across the board. (And it’s why I added my edit at the bottom that stats are dangerous.)
You’re point’s well taken.
Yeah, I mean its not only small sample sizes, but its the nature of the statistic.
A 68-yard bomb to a wide open Jeremy Maclin against a bad team isn’t that impressive, but does wonders for one’s QB Rating.
A 51-yd screen pass to Darren Sproles, same thing.
And when you’re condensing that statistic into like 6 total quarters, with maybe 3-4 possessions……those random big plays tell a much bigger story than Nick’s actual ability in those games.
Which isn’t to say he didn’t make some big throws (against SF in particular), but we should be looking at the rating objectively for what it is.
It’s a problem inherent in football vs. baseball.
Not enough games.
What would be great to learn is how the best of the NFL Analytics folks — on the inside of the teams — evaluate these kinds of numbers.
That MIT conference didn’t cut it.
It would be useful to know the final outcome of the games.
Luck’s numbers are interesting (a) b/c he generally carries his team (though in a Jameis Winston-like fashion) and (b) his division is so easy.
Can you let us know how many games / what teams factored into the analysis?
The entire 2014 season. The numbers come from NFL.com.
http://www.nfl.com/player/nickfoles/2532842/situationalstats?season=2014
http://www.nfl.com/player/russellwilson/2532975/situationalstats
http://www.nfl.com/player/andrewluck/2533031/situationalstats
Beyond NFL.com . . . I cannot give a better breakdown.
Would love to, but the Eagles don’t pay me enough.
I find a great Rating when the game is tied almost more impressive than when your team is behind. Why? Because the pressure of not losing a tied game is pretty significant compared to the pressure with from playing behind when you basically don’t have nothing to lose.
#Rainmaker
GE’s awesomeballz off-season plan
1. Re-sign Jeremy Maclin – 5 years, 55 million, 22 mio gtd > cap hit in 2015: $9m
2. Sign Byron Maxwell – 5 years, 49 million, 24 mio gtd > cap hit in 2015: $10m
3. Sign Devin McCourty – 6 years, 58 million, 20 mio gtd > cap hit in 2015: $8m
4. Sign Davon House – 4 years, 29 million, 14 mio gtd > cap hit in 2015: $6m
5. Sign Jabal Sheard – 4 years, 30 million, 17 mio gtd > cap hit in 2015: $8m
>>> remaining salary cap in 2015: $9m
Bam.
Edit:
6. Re-sign Sanchez – 3 years, 12 million, 8 mio gtd > cap hit in 2015: $3m
7. Sign Stevan Ridley – 1 year, 1.5 million, fully gtd > cap hit in 2015: $1.5m
>>> remaining salary cap in 2015: $4.5m
Bam again.
Extend/resign the others…?
Whom?
Getting back-up Qb, OL, RB all thru draft may be difficult if any *sigh” trade up is involved. Do like your dream scenario though.
Well in this scenario you overpaid almost everybody, you left us with little space for extending guys considering our cap next year too and you didn’t sign MARTYOTTA!
You will have to overpay for top Free Agents.It’s just the way it is.
Re extending guys: if we really trade up for MM there won’t be any guys left to extend this year. 😉
I’m joking about Mariota but there was serious overpay and I doubt the market gets that ugly across the board
Which player was seriously overpaid in my scenario?
I think they are pretty accurate. With the ballooning of this cap and free agents getting overpaid, they will probably get around this amount maybe even more for guys like Maclin, Maxwell, McCourty. House may be a bit high, but that’s really the only one i can pick on.
Thank you, sir. Appreciated.
I’d be surprised if we paid for Maxwell. WE don’t care about giving up yards we care about x plays, i think that has a lot more to do with safety play than it does CBs. That said we do play man and leave one of our guys on an island so maybe that goes both ways.
He”s a brick……HOUSE!!! Davon to be exact
Maxwell, but it depends how you define overpaid. He’ll likely get that sort of money but I don’t think he’s worth it. TBH I’d sooner pay McCourty $10m per.
I think they are all pretty close. I think Sheard probably gets closer to 5 or 6ish but the rest looks good.
Cheers, mate.
cut Meco and what happens, think that leaves right at $15m.
This is a contingency. Yes.
Meco, Mac and Celek stay… They are adopted ducks!
You’ve left, like, zero room once you sign a draft class. Plus the cap position would look pretty bad next year and there’s no leeway to re-sign Cox and Kendricks.
The reason the Eagles have so much cap space isn’t because they have a below average wage bill, but because they continually roll space over. Go up to the cap now and you’re essentially going all-in at a time when you’ll either have a rookie or a turnover machine at QB. Not good.
My feeling is though that Chip will go all in this year. Plug the holes via Free Agency while trading away a serious amount of draft picks (plus possible starters on D) for MM. The roll-over will be minimal this year me thinks.
If he goes that close to the cap then we need less Football Guys and more number crunchers. At least the Saints had the excuse of an ageing Pro Bowl QB for going all-in last year. The only possible reason the Eagles would do it would be because Kelly thinks his own personal “window” is closing. I think he’s smarter than that, and I’d be very disappointed if he proves me wrong.
All of the aforementioned top 5 players will be wearing an Eagles jersey for the next 4-6 years, cause they are young AND playmakers. Don’t see anything wrong with this approach this year.
Because you’re tying up a ton of cap space. It would make the *actual* wage bill way higher than the league wide salary cap so once that rollover we currently have the benefit of goes, you’re in trouble. Roster also becomes paper thin if you spend big $s on FAs, and the bust rate of FAs isn’t that different to draft picks.
And you signed Sanchez, which I’m against on principle 😉
I don’t see a problem GE either. If these players do not meet expectations in future years they are re-negotiated or traded. I think the clock is ticking for Chip, and he needs to fix the D now.
No problem. Who gives a shit if we lose cox, curry, Kendricks, Logan, Lane, Ertz.., atleast we got the hawian Jesus Christ and a few free agents!!!!
Heh. The GEAGLE-train is going off the rails.
Go all in with a rookie QB? That’s like an oxy moron. If he was going all in, you musts be conceding that Foles is the Qb…no? My bad, forgot we were talking about the hawian Jesus christ here. Chip started working on this offense when he found out Marriotta was born.. E true Hollywood story
you wish
No. I just got awesomeballz.
I wish…
Pervert.
Lol
And no concept of cap management lol not bad, I’ll copy it for my madden roster, actually i can’t, the video game is more realistic 😉
I’m better looking than Banner though. Lol.
You can probably get Ridley on a 1-year prove it deal for around $1.5M plus incentives. Coming off torn ACL.
Good point. Let’s assume this in my [dream] scenario and our cap will go up. 🙂
Doubt we will sign any RBs unless we lose Polk
Lynch will make $12 million this year, including a $7.5M signing bonus.
He’ll have base salaries of $9 million and $7 million in 2016-17 if he
doesn’t retire. Lynch was scheduled to make $7 million. Seattle is
giving him a $5M raise for 2015.
So he’s getting like 11mil a season DAMN
17tds this year — totally worth it.
But I thought RBs aren’t supposed to make that much? Like Shady lol but seriously that is serious coin
Only RBs who don’t get the ball inside the 2 yard-line aren’t suppose to make that much.
yeah Seattle learned the hard way what happens when they don’t do that
When shady stops disappearing in the playoffs he should be paid half as much as lynch
Every penny!!! Makes shady look like a fraud
They’re going to have problems staying on top paying these dudes and losing guys in free agency.
Deserves every penny. Best RB In The NFL. Out of all the elite ones, he is the only one that produces DEEP in the playoffs every year. He should make double what shady makes. Shady disappears in every play off game
Short yards, TDs that’s what matters. Problem with Eagles last two years is that we can produce tons of yards but are terrible in the RZ. That characterizes both Shady and Djax.
From ESP: Byron Maxwell was flagged 3 more times in 481 less snaps than Cary Williams was last season.
There’s something to look forward to.
Ugh.
Yeah especially given the receivers in this division compared to NFCW and he’d be consistently on no. 1s instead of no. 2s
Better reporting by the local literati — and, for the matter, the mouthpieces on the 4-letter network — should have unearthed that number weeks ago.
I’d really like to know how teams will use analytics in negotiations — as compared, say, to how (well-run) MLB teams use them to win arbitrations.
That’s the kind of number that explains Seattle telling Maxwell “go to the market, kid, and see what you can get . . . ’cause $6M is plenty in our view.”
I bet he was targeted way more than Cary was…
if he had fletcher on the other side he wouldn’t have had to do so much covering and getting flagged…
but dang 481 less snaps then Cary? that’s a lot of extra playing on this defense…
Were the 3 flags for extensive celebrations of interceptions and forced turnovers?
Davon House and Brooks Reed both are reaching the open market…. get ready to meet the newest Eagles…
Rather have a better pass rusher than Reed.
yeah…. me too!!! think i dont have a sexy free agent wish list too? think the best I can come up with is Reed and House? of course not…. but its the eagle way
All quiet on that Russell Wilson contract…
any chance the next eagle safety iosnt one of these names?
searcy
McCourty
Rahim Moore
Gilchrist
???????????????????????
Sure, Searcy not listed. Also interested in the type of tender the Ravens give S Will Hill considering they’re tight in cap room. I know the guy has a history with marijuana use but he’s pretty good when he can stay on the field. There’s also other depth safeties that I could see them targeting, but they would be in addition to someone else.
Yes.
Unless “??????????????????” was hiding “Next Dawkins” I’m not interested.
Awesome thanks
I really think McCourty is a guy we would splurge on. He is a perfect fit in every way for what Chip wants both on and off the field.
agree , can’t believe we have so many open positions. $50m doesn’t seem like enough.
Looking at everyone wish list. Question, why don’t we just sign
Suh
Julius thomas
Jerry Huges nice and expensive!!!
Maxwell
McCourty
Mac and Cobb… So we don’t have to choose between the two lol
And even tho iuapati isn’t the best fit, we will get him anywY!! Nothing but the best for eagle fans
..
Think that’s enough? Or do I have room to also sign Orakpo? I don’t want to over do it
You’re not telling us there ain’t no Santa Claus, are you?!
Of course not silly.. Who else drinks the milk and eats the cookies?
U?
Forget the players. Upgrade the sideline talent.
What do you guys think of Ryan Matthews? I haven’t seen many mention him as a possibility for Eagles.
No! NO! NO! Going into the game against us, I said he was soft and would fumble…guess what happened? Hell no! Too soft .. Despise the softness in his game
..
Prolly should t waste too much time on the FA RBs… Sproles is our 3rd down back. Chip won’t pay for a two down back.. Chip wants a one cut and get upfield back, unless we lose Polk our RB will be drafted and be paid 600k per year for the next 4 years. We will only pay for a back if someone steals polk
Damn people are all jonesing for all thee injury prone backs…Polk, Spiller, Matthews, Ingram…
Yeah i’d rather take Gore for pennies.
Me too, but honestly he’s got his own injury issues
I’d rather just grab a rookie for half pennies. Have a committee backfield.
http://i57.tinypic.com/jf7vrm.gif