Breakout Players
Posted: October 15th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 313 Comments »Every offseason we hear about the players who are headed for a breakout season. It could be a former high pick. “Watch out for Jerome McDougle. This is finally his year.” Or maybe this is a UDFA the coaches love. Some Eagles fans will remember how much Jim Johnson loved Greg Richmond and thought he could be a good SAM linebacker. Or maybe the player is a minicamp sensation like Lorenzo Booker. Remember when he was going to be a key player for the Eagles?
Some guys actually do pan out. Many don’t.
This year we heard about several players who were going to have big years. Let’s take a quick look at some of them and how things have gone.
OT Lane Johnson – He went and did MMA training in the offseason to push himself to take the next step. Johnson is a good starter. He wanted to become a Pro Bowl player. Injuries have hurt him so far. Johnson has been good at times, but he certainly hasn’t taken his game to the next level.
WR Josh Huff – Too early to tell. Things didn’t look so good prior to last week, but again…injuries were a key factor. Missed the Jets game and then was limited for the Skins game. Practiced fully and played a lot in the Saints game. That was the best game of his career. Set career high in catches (4) and yards (78), while also catching his first TD pass. Had an 18-yard catch and a 41-yard’er. Blocked well. Can he build on that or was that an anomaly? Would be huge for the offense if Huff turned out to be the real deal.
DE Taylor Hart – Didn’t play in 2014, but the coaches spoke highly of him in the offseason. Hart has been an effective part of the DL rotation this year. Missed the Skins game with an injury. Has shown real potential. Looks to be a player on the rise. Isn’t posting great numbers, but is a stout 2-gap DE with enough athleticism to help him get the job done.
CB Nolan Carroll – Chip Kelly could not say enough good things about Carroll in the offseason. Carroll was great in all the workout stuff and then was solid in the OTAs. Regular season football is very different and the results have been so-so. Carroll has been an effective starter, but the Eagles need to upgrade him in the offseason. Carroll could be an outstanding role player, but he doesn’t look like a high quality starter.
S Jerome Couplin – I’m not sure anyone hyped Couplin in the offseason, but there was a lot of hope that he would earn a starting role or become a key role player. Couplin has had good moments on STs and has even played some on defense, but he hasn’t stood out in the regular season.
Not all players get hyped. Some just surprise us.
FS Walter Thurmond – I am shocked at how good Thurmond has been as the Eagles FS. Shocked. He is second on the team in tackles. Has 4 TFLs, 4 pass break-ups and 3 INTs. Nate Allen did not have any TFLs last year. I had a feeling Thurmond could cover, but I didn’t anticipate him being so willing to get down and dirty when playing the run. He won’t be mistaken for Andre Waters any time soon, but Thurmond is tougher than I anticipated. Great move.
OG Andrew Gardner – Won the RG job in the offseason. Played well to start the season, making the most of his chance. Unfortunately got hurt and he’s out for the year.
LB Marcus Smith – Got on the field last week and didn’t disappoint. I don’t think teams will be gameplanning for him any time soon, but it was encouraging to see Smith take advantage of getting on the field. Was that an anomaly or a sign of things to come? Keep your fingers crossed.
I didn’t list any current rookies. They have different types of hype and expectations.
I also didn’t list Sam Bradford. Discussing his situation is tricky. We may not figure him out until we’re 10 to 12 weeks into the season.
*****
The Saints beat the Falcons. 2015 is one wild year. Go figure.
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Tommy, could you get a little more specific on Carroll? I thought he has played pretty well, better than maxwell in all but the last game. I think Maxwell will be the better player as he gets familiar, but I don’t see a “must upgrade” when I look at Carroll. What am I missing?
I agree. Carroll has played as an above average starter IMO
Agreed. He looked great in the Jets game. Some big impact plays in that game, including an INT. I’ve been very impressed by him, more than I expected.
Also, no Zach Ertz annual appearance in the breakout player discussion?
You must have been reading my mind Tommy. I was just thinking about Greg Richmond the other day for no apparent reason. I had hopes for that guy too. He was great at OSU. Injuries killed him though.
I hope MSII gets on the field more… I think we should see what we have at that position and whether we have to spend a pick there this year. Graham isn’t doing much and maybe MSII can push him or take some snaps.
Not expecting the guy to be the next Jordan Hicks…. I just think its time to see exactly what we have there
We need a consistent 12 to 16 sack terrorist at ROLB. I’d like our pas rush to look like Denver’s does this year; a dead QB waiting to happen.
Perfect way to put it
I wonder if MSII is a better game player than practice player. Something he is doing or not doing in practice has the coaches really down on him. I would love for them to start giving him more consistent playing time to see what he can do. I don’t think Chip really operates that way, but it’s not like anyone else is playing so well (in the backup OLB role) that you can’t take them off the field.
Lack of continuity.. Injuries at unopportune times. chip is big on playing guys that took snaps and were well prepared at practice..we need Marcus to avoid getting banged up so he can build on his last game and put together another two weeks of quality practice and some game production so he can go into the bye week with some momentum, and if like to see him really start to show big growth in the second half of this season..
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He Needs to not miss any more games or practice days because of injuries.. That’s what’s most important for Marcus
Was expecting to see a Jordan Matthews summary….he’s been the biggest disappointment for me so far. I guess he’s already established in a way because of a nice rookie year, but he needs to pick it up
Biggest success: Hicks and Thurmond have both exceeded my expectations so far this year
Agreed. His season would look a lot different if he would have held onto a few more balls.
Maybe people have finally accepted the fact that Matthews just isn’t as good as the hype train made him out to be.
Hicks has been a stud. I wouldn’t put Kiko in to replace him if the rookie keeps playing that well. Thurmond is like having another CB out there, I just wished he had some fire inside him and lay out someone.
I wouldn’t say there has been a hype train. I still think he is going to be a good player, not a top 10 receiver or anything but still a solid receiver. He has too much talent to be playing the way he has
But what talent does he really have? Yea he’s good at YAC but you don’t get YAC if you don’t catch the ball. People were hyped about him. Matthews said all the right things to get the casual fans drooling about his “ceiling”. Matthews just doesn’t have the hands, separation or body control to be anything but a slot WR.
well i think he’s much better at catching the ball than he has shown this year so far. He’s gotten pretty good separation all year, but just hasn’t made enough catches to make a big impact.
Matthews (and Ertz) had problems with drops in college.
yes he did, but it wasn’t like it has been through these 6 games. I think he gets ahead of himself and presses, tries to make the play without catching the ball first. I still have a lot of confidence in the guy
*5 games
The thing is, Matthews showed problems with drops last, this year and in college, so fair to say it might never not be a problem
not saying it isn’t a problem, i understand he has had drop issues, but i think he’s better than what he’s shown so far this year. I just checked and so far he has been credited with 2 dropped passes so far this year……I’m calling bullshit on that number, to me he’s dropped about 2 a game so far, or at least that’s what it has felt like to me. I know it hasn’t only been 2 that’s for damn sure.
I’d love to snag a stud WR with great hands…
If TO who probably has a better work ethic than Matthews couldn’t fix his dropsies in more than a decade in the league then I would never have hope for Matthews’s hands.
It’d be nice if running into the end zone after every rep somehow gave his hands sticky glue.
He body catches almost all of the passes that come his way. Pretty good separation to me is having at least 4 yards between the WR and the CB. CBs are always right behind Matthews.
He’s on pace for 1000 yards.
He’d be an upper level WR2 in most offenses. Chip uses him in the slot because it creates mismatches. I don’t know that I saw any hype train stuff. I can’t say I saw anyone making him out to be an elite level receiver. I think most people understand he’s a volume receiver who gives us a mismatch against slot CBs and can post big numbers.
I’m going to have to highly disagree. Matthews is overrated.
Not a finished product,, still developing as an NFL WR
I say one of the reasons this team is looking average is simply that too many players havnt taken the next step that we had hoped for.
Quite true. If Matthews, Ertz, two guards who shall remain nameless, Marcus Smith, Graham, Kendricks, and Maxwell all took the next step we’d hope for this team would be much better.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Fixed Duel and Draft Cheats now need to pay for a gambling licence in Nevada before they can resume operation.
Hopefully these internet startup cheats learn to better adhere to rules and laws.
There was a rule from 2006 that said fantasy sport wasnt gambling, so not like they didnt adhere to the rules.
I aware, but I fail to see the distinction between a prop bet on the over/under of a player’s yards in a game vs. a collection of head to head prop bets on the statistical totals of varying groups of players. I’m not sure the fantasy $ sites would win in court if really pressed on that point.
That is true, but either all fantasy sport is illegal or none. Because what is the difference between betting on who wins the SB and what combination of players win you, your fantasy league?
Anders see my reply above. The difference is in how the law was written. I get your point and agree with it, of course there is no difference.
The NFL would likely say that betting on the SB is bad for the integrity of the game b/c people will try to cheat and fix the games. But that fantasy football is random enough not to threaten the integrity of the game. That is the argument I saw when I read about the law that carves out fantasy football.
I totally agree with your point that fantasy football of course is gambling.
But when you talk about court it’s different. If it were “no gambling” and we all interpret that to mean of course fantasy football is no different than all these other things that are outlawed. But it’s not “no gambling” there is a very specific carve out in a federal law that says fantasy football is not illegal. So the first thing a court does is say show me the applicable law, is it directly on point? here it is, yes. Having one side then say well that shouldn’t be the case b/c it’s unfair, it’s not unlike these other illegal acts, etc. is almost always going to lose.
The NFL etc. lobbied Congress for this exception. That’s how laws are made. [remember the cartoon from our youth?]
If they remade that cartoon today, instead of a regal scroll the bill would be a dirty envelope filled with dirtier money.
that would be hilarious.
I’m not sure what cartoon you guys are referring to, but google has lots! Here’s a good one:
http://www.permaculturenews.org/images/lobbyist-cartoon-1.gif
Google “I’m just a Bill.”
The best quote I’ve seen on the whole thing is:
“If securities laws were like gambling laws, it would be illegal for
people to buy shares of Google or a United States Treasury bond, because
that would be gambling, but legal for them to invest in currency swaps
that pay a return if the Swiss franc, Argentine peso and Vietnamese dong
together outperform the Swedish krona, Mexican peso and South Korean
won.”
from a NYT article last month
That is a great quote!
heh. “dong”.
So, in this example the Argentine is like Sammy Watkins and the Mexican peso is like Jalen Watkins?
(seriously, that is a great quote.)
I am from the UK and the Saints game kicked off at 12:30am our time, so I’ve recorded it in the hope of not knowing the score.
That last sentence has destroyed my plan for this afternoon. FFS!.
Going to bed at 4:30 PM local time to get up at 12:30 AM wasn’t an option?
I sometimes try to stay up but usually I get up at 5am and watch the Thursday games before work. I’ll probably watch it anyway, it just won’t be as good.
Spoiler…Eagles 34 Giants 20…
My apologies.
Boy, Tommy, you must have been tired when that game ended. I can’t believe that you got the final outcome so wrong.
Or, maybe I was so tired that I remember it incorrectly and you have it right.
Really, it could be either one. I guess the only solution here is for MOOOoooooo to watch the game and report back.
(Now, everybody, shhhhhhhhh!)
typically comments here will talk about the current games going on. If you want to tape and watch a game later, you just shouldn’t come here until you’ve watched it.
yea man, if i DVR a game, and its important to me that i don’t see spoilers, i’ll avoid the internet at all costs just to make sure i don’t catch a glimpse.
wasn’t there a brooklyn nine-nine episode about that? lol
I feel your pain man, that’s TOOOoooooo bad!
(sorry, couldn’t help it)
Have you discovered GamePass? Great value, with all but two games a week live (the Sky afternoon games are blacked out), and all the games available in condensed form the next day.
Haven’t heard much from Carroll, which I take as a good sign in a CB. BS penalty calls can’t really be held against a player.
Surprised to see Tommy down on him. I thought he’s been our best cb
I think that is mainly an outcome of comparing results to expectations.
The perception of Carroll benefits greatly from the fact that a certain segment of fans likes to blame Maxwell for every reception the defense gives up.
Running back screen, Maxwell is in good coverage 20 yards away against the WR:
“WHAT THE HELL MAXWELL! YOU”RE WORSE THAN NNAMDI! BUST! WORST PLAYER EVER!”
Lol. That’s not too far off. Early this week, someone on here was talking about how Maxwell gave up 6 catches for 141 yards to Willie Snead.
During the game, I made a comment on here following a receiver covered tightly by Carroll making an impressive catch nonetheless, that we should bench Maxwell. I was corrected by other commenters because blaming Maxwell is so common they didn’t realize I was joking.
I don’t want anybody to play like Andre Waters. Andre destroyed his brain by taking too many violent hits and then took his life. It ain’t worth it.
Interesting perspective.
Andre had marginal talent and made up for it by being a very violent player on the field. His nickname was “Dirty Waters.” He shot himself in the head at age 44. An examination of his brain tissue found severe damage caused by recurring trauma. What is your perspective Mr. Lawlor?
Im not Mr Lawlor but nobody put a gun to his head to make him play. Sad as it was and is, players now are MORE aware of consequences and some choose to leave the sport (SF 49rs) but most stay. If you stay you play hard or get cut. Not like its the most secure job. There are no children playing in the NFL.
Waters is a bad example of safety play. He often led with his head when making a tackle. He was frequently penalized for cheap shots. I don’t think Chip wants his safeties to play like Andre did. Somebody did put a gun to his head; he did.
nobody put a gun to his head to make him play.
I understand. It’s an interesting discussion. I enjoyed “Buddy ball”, but looking back now, I can see a dark side to it. Buddy was like a father to Andre. I think Andre would have thrown himself on a grenade to please Buddy. Unfortunately, Buddy was a hard nosed guy who was probably unaware of the long term consequences of his style of play. I love to watch football, but I no longer get excited when there are huge hits and players are helped off the field in a disoriented state.
Great points. I realized some time ago myself that knowing what we know now regarding head injuries & their long term affects, the way I view the game has radically changed. When it comes to really nasty hits it has anyway. If the helmet is involved in the hit or the player is completely defenseless & gets drilled, where I used to howl with the lusty approval of a Roman at the Games, I know cringe, say yikes & look for a flag.
I think Carroll can be upgraded on, but I also think we would be OK to go with him for another year if we need to.
I also wish Thurmond was a better tackler, but that production is hard to argue against.
Looking at secondaries around the league, Carroll is fine as a 2nd CB. Certainly can be upgraded, but have to consider cost/benefit of the upgrade. I want to judge him on a whole season of work before I decide whether upgrading him will be a priority in the offseason. Even now, with the struggles the CBs have had early in the season, I’d rank CB as no more than third on my list of offseason priorities (OL, OLB/edge being 1 and 2). I have a feeling the secondary is going to get a lot better as the season wears on, so CB will probably not even be #3 priority by the end of the season.
Offensive line is definitely the priority in this offseason. Too many aging players and not enough depth.
I think something like a 3 year 10mil, 4 mil guaranteed makes sense for both sides.
It gives the team security at the position. They have a guy who is a competent starter, to force Eric Rowe to earn the starting job. If Rowe wins the job you have a guy who isn’t making crazy money as a key backup. It allows you to not have to address the position until day 3 in the draft. I’m not convinced of Sheppards ability to play outside, especially coming off a knee, and Rice is an enigma but likely to ever be more than depth.
For Carrol it’s maybe a little less than he makes on the open market, but he doesn’t have to worry about getting caught playing musical chairs and having to take a prove it deal at 29. It gives him some guaranteed money in year 2, and allows him to stay in a situation/scheme/technique he’s comfortable with.
Just out of curiosity, do you take into account the the impending cap increase for next year? Though I suppose the numbers would raise accordingly if you did not.
And I agree that the guaranteed money and scheme familiarity would go a long way towards convincing Carroll to stick around. Though it does depend on how the season plays out.
Yes. I’d be comfortable with up to low 4s a year, but he’s 29 and if he starts the rest of the year will still have fewer than 30 career starts. If he plays like he has so far this year for the rest of the year I think best case for him would be like 2 years 11mil.
I highly doubt we will open next season with a starting corner who isnt on this roster today… Im sorry, but there is no way that we are seeing the best Nolan is capable of in his first 5 games at outside corner for the eagles.. After he gets 16 games of Startimg experiemce Id bet we see him grow and be a better player for us next year.. Of Course, he will have his hands full trying to hold off Eric ROWE, who is going to become a nice corner for us one day.. ROWE has this amazing ability to recover and win at the end of the play. Once he also starts winning at the beginning of the play he is going to be a,pretty darn good corner… out of Maxwell, ROWE, and Carroll, two are going to be our starting corners againt next year, you can take that to the Bank, but all 3 will be contributing to our secondary in some capacity next year..
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Probably just going to see the eagles draft versatile DB in the mid rounds and figure out where to play him Later… I would LOVE NOTHING more than to see a big trade up for Jaylen Ramsey’s but that ain’t happening, it would end up costing a ton…
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Believe it or not, some times the answer isnt looking for a new player every offseason. With Continuity and experience guys grow and become better playërs than what we are currently seeing… nolan isn’t going to be a Probowl corner, but I think it’s really foolish to assume that we are already seeing the best it’s ever going to get for that kid.. Probably need to see a kid play at least 20 games in a roll befire you assume you are seeing the best he has to offer. Nolan is a intelligent, hard working corner, who I wouldn’t bet against seeing him Imporve…
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Hopefully we see Denzel and JaCorey end up proving to be steals..
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Telling you right now, don’t expect to see a very different secondary, we will see most of the same faces, maybe switch them around in different roles depending on development
Way too soon to be down on Lane year 3 growth… With over 10 games left would anyone be THATS surprised to see him blowup the second half of the season? I’m sure a lot of it will be up to his health … With his early season injuries, and the start of turmoil the rest of the OL was in, probably not fair to assme Lane won’t show the growth we expected before this year is over..
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Not for NOTHNG, the kid didnt getn half of the praise he deserved from the Saints game.lt Wasnt dominant, Kelce and JP recieved higher grades, but Lane shouldn’t have even been playing with a jacked up MCL and Ankle, yet he stepped up for us, and out played jordan Cameron who is a pretty damn good player who put a beating on Matt Ryan and the Falcons OL last night… A hobbled Lane basically made Cameron irrelevant in last weeks match up and that was a pretty gutsy performance by our young beast… Ultimately, Lane is probably the last eagle I would bet against growing into an Elite player at his position even if we have to wait a little longer than we had hoped
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hart is far from breaking out, but he has been a positive addition to tbis years DL..when you look at Hart on the field with Incredible Playes like Cox and Bennie, Hart looks like he belongs, he ismt sticking out in a negative way…. Kid should end up being a solid eagke one day, he just needs to keep showing up and contributing and not get lost in this deep and takented rotation… Hart is the ONE player we spent a 4th or 5th round pick on who has a chance to be a Longterm Eagle..
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Couplin doesn’t even belong on that list… I don’t think he ever really was expected to breakout and become our starting safety of the future,, his “Breakout” would be improving enough to earn a role in Nickel or Dime subpackages While also becoming one of our ST leaders…
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I guess your individual expectations dictate how happy or dissapointed you are in Couplin,. I never expected much contribution to our defense, Im more concerned that he grows enough to be a MAIN ST player in order to justify keepimg him over such a productive ST player in Prosinski.. In terms of the secondary, I have higher expectations for JaCorey than Couplin
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I think we have a bigger need to improve our Safety personnel, we have talented ROWE a young player with starting corner potention, so we could still use an Eric ROWE type of Talemt at Safety….thurmond,Jenkins,Maragos, Rookie stud Safety, Couplin (ST) would really solidify our secondary next year
I don’t think Tommy was down on Lane, he just said he hasn’t taken his game to the next level yet. Like you, I think that by the end of this season Lane will be dominating if he is healthy, but Tommy’s statement about Lane was accurate and fair based on what we have seen so far.
Probably why we need to wait a little longer than 5 weeks to be able to have this discussion
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Can’t talk about any BREAKOUTS List without Sticking Bennie Logans name right at the top…
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Id probably be more dissapointed with Ertz lack of “breakout” during the first quarter, than I am about Lane…. Neither Ertz nor Lane has been bad, and I think their are real factors That have held both back. Ertz hasnt shown what I would have hoped to see, but I can’t just ignore the fact THAT he rushed back from surgery and probably needed some time TIL he could get back to his true level of play ..
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The 2013 class, ranking them in order of most impressive this year, Id probably go with
1) Bennie from the block
2) Lane
3) Ertz
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But by the second half of this season, I expect to see all 3 play at a higher level than we have seen… Hopefully the bye week is long enough to get Lane and JPs healthy
You know, when the offense has just been going through such systemic failure, it’s hard to really see how a player’s developing. Factor in the injuries on top of that, and there’s no telling. If the offense starts looking more “normal” (as it started to look last game) and Lane stays where he is by the end of the season, I’ll be more skeptical. But even so, he’s still young and we can do worse than having an OT this good even if he doesn’t get that much better.
Doesn’t help that Lane already was asked to play next to 3 different RG’s in the first 5 games..
im still blown away (not in a good way) by how this city has treated marcus smith… i DONT understand how people can be so down on a rookie for not producing, I just don’t get it… I would have loved to see Marcus Start this season guns blazing making everyone eat their words, but it seems that for whatever reason his development will require more time than we have hoped. I’m sure the late August injury Hurt him..
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If fans take a moment to stroll down memory lane and think about the development of fan favorite Vinny Curry, the first year and a quarter of his NFL career was pretty similar to MS2, and curry didn’t even have to deal with the injuries that set MS2 back a bit… Curry didn’t see the field as a rookie in 2012, and if we recall the first quarter of his 2nd season, Curry was innactive, not even dressing and we started to hear rumors of a disgruntled VINNY having his agent start to ask for a trade.. Then come the second quarter of his 2nd season, VINNY started to see the field, Make plays and he has been consistentky growing and not turning back ever since… For this city to spit on MS2 and treat the kid like dog shit simce we drafted him is classless, uneducated and ridiculuos..
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good news,is the hard part for Marcus should be over, and if he can avoid injury setbacks, we should start to see him turn the corner and show more and more flashes as this season unfolds and start making bigger contributions to this front 7….it be a pretty HUGE addition, if MS2 can come into games, give us a spark and take some of the load,of Barwin and BG allowing them to play less snaps which should keep them fresher late in the year
Vinny didn’t see the field b/c he was free-lancing / not learning to 2-gap as well as other guys but at heart he’s a speed rusher and he’s dominant at that. i don’t think ms2 has the same excuse. not bashing him, it is what it is at this point hopefully he builds on the saints game we desperately need an edge rusher.
I think they just need to put him on the field more, he hasn’t been a complete liability and he has at minimum shown he has functional coverage ability. Part of coaching is building up his confidence, so put him in to play to this strengths at least and it’s not like we have lot of depth at that position.
I think they should sub him in more. Its not like Graham is wrecking it out there.
Clearly chip is big on not playing guys unless they are getting Practice reps.. We have seen lack of practice effect the roles of Demarco. Huff and Marcus..
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I think most important thing for Marcus right now, is avoiding getting banged up, and make sure he stays on that practice field..we lack deoth at OLB, so if MS2 is consistently practicing and performing in practice, I think we will see him start to get consistent game opportunities because I think coaches would LOVE to get Barwin and BG’s snaps down a bit…as long as the kid avoids the injury, and puts together a few weeks in a row of practice and game snaps, we should see this kid to start take some big steps forward in the growth curve…… He just needs to stay on the damn field, and Id bet he starts contributing to the front 7….. Just would have liked to see this city support the kid while he is working to grow into the player we hope he will be, instead of adding to the adversity he was dealing with and trying to overcome..
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I can’t think of MANY other rookies who were treated as bad as we treated this kid since the night he was drafted . Time for this FANBASE to get its head out its ass and give the kid a chance
He’s very good in coverage. He’s solid at setting the edge. It’s just the pass rush that needs work. It’s inconsistent.
But he’s not a liability. So he’s earned snaps. It will help him continue to develop, and it keeps Barwin and Graham fresh.
I wouldn’t mind seeing us stick MS2 in Coverage against TE Larry Donnell early in the Monday night game and see if Marcus can step up to the challenge and hold up on coverage against a dangerous pass catching TE..
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I actually think we will see him start to get some pressure on QBs in pass rushing situations which has been his weakness… I’m Probably most worried about seeing if he can consistently set the edge against the run, which is one of the main reasons he needed to get bigger and stronger
I agree with your post, but you’d have to be born yesterday to be surprised. The town gets antsy over Ags not lighting the world on fire at a position rookies historically outside of the 2014 draft class just don’t produce much.
Right or wrong tons of people didn’t like the MS2 pick. He’s struggled to be active on game day ever since, which, right or wrong, is well below expectations for a first round pick. He just registered his first tackle on Sunday. These people just aren’t going to like MS2, period. Is it early to be calling him a bust? Absolutely. Can you act bewildered that the town hates him? Only if you just got here.
we are talking about a fanbase that actually booed a pick as he was picked in the draft.
and Number 5 still loves us? wow!
“OG Andrew Gardner – …Played well to start the season, making the most of his chance…”
Agree to disagree.
So apparently the Giants plan on leaving Trumain McBride in the slot to deal with Jordan Mathews and Jayron Hosely will strart at outside corner in place of Prince..
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Hosely is a tiny nickel corner type, and with Chips affinity for beating up on little people, I assume there will be a lot of screen being thrown at the smaller 5’10 178lb Hosely.. A physical kid like Josh Huff should be able to run right thru this kid.. DRC isn’t physical by any stretch of the imagination, but this kid isn’t even 180lbs.. Lane spilled the beans that we have put in even more new plays than we did last week against the saints, and probably safe to assume that we will see a ton of screens and wheel routes.,
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Giants don’t have any LB that can really run and cover a guy like Sproles and starters Beason and Kenard probably won’t play..
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im sure chip will show morons like Elliot short parks why we didn’t draft their beloved Landon Collins..get that kid Isolated against Ertz or Sproles and torch the rookie..
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Most of their players are much better run defenders than they are in coverage, no surprise it’s like the worst pass defense in the game… No LBs or safeties that excel in coverage and when you combine real bad coverage with the worst pass rushing DL it should be the kiss of death that allows Bradford to have a monster game… If we can run the ball early in this game against a much better run defense, it will be a long night for the gIants defense
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my gues…. Eagles don’t score less than 40 points this Week
You’re a bit lower on Carroll and Lane than I am. Obviously you have the benefits of watching film on just them while doing the DGR every week. I thought Carroll has been pretty rock solid as a #2 CB. Maybe that’s just because CB’s have been setting a pretty low bar around here recently. Heck opposing teams seemed to be going after Maxwell, so I thought Carroll was doing something right.
And Lane, I’ve noticed a fair amount of icky stuff from all the other OL, haven’t seen too much of the struggles coming from his direction, mentally or physically. I was thinking he was the bright spot so far.
Could Tommy, or someone else paying more attention than me elaborate on the seasons these guys are having?
I swear if Lane lines up in the backfield one more time…
All I know is I can’t find a worst pass rushing DL in the league than the Giants.. JPP was supposed to be their entire pass rush.. I don’t care how hurt Lane and JP are, they better not let Ayers and Damontre Moore touch Bradford. iF our tackles are hobbling around on 1 leg I still expect them to stonewall these Scab Giant DEs,.. I will go batshit if they let the gIant DEs hit Sam,,, no excuses…
..
Of course the pass rush is so putrid that Spagnuolo really doesn’t have much choice but to bust out the Jim Johnson playbook and blitz us all game long.. 4man zone blitzes leaving some pretty crappy LB and Safeties in coverage, I better see A sharp Bradford Roast this defense and make them pay for their blitzes..
..
For me the most promising aspect is that we will start the same 5 lineman that stepped up and played well last week, I’m hoping last week wasn’t just a good game, but it was the turning point for our OL.. No one got hurt, the same 5 players will get to lineup in the same spots,
tHey NEED to BUILD on last weeks performance and make the saints game the turning point of the season instead of losing the next game like we did when we finally showed a pulse against the Jets
With Lane he’s been playing ok, consistent with what he has been the past two years. He does a good job, but has a few pass sets a game where he just blows the block, he The Redskins game where he was hurt he really struggled. That was a very bad game.
Overall Lane just hasn’t taken that next step. He’s currently a good RT, but he hasn’t progressed to a perennail pro bowl, all-pro level that many hoped he would.
As far as Caroll I think he’s been a solid number 2 CB. He’s had some good plays, and some bad plays, but more good than bad and hasn’t had any atrocious periods.
I figured it might involve the Redskins game, I didn’t watch it live, couldn’t get past the first half on the rewind knowing it was a loss.
Yea had some really ugly plays
https://vine.co/v/e0OIl5TMeIh
https://vine.co/v/e0O6PEDjXwa
https://vine.co/v/e2Umg5OpFQB
https://vine.co/v/e2U7PI6tveD
oof, thanks for sharing those. Pretty rough.
Yea it seemed once he sprained his knee he couldn’t make his pass protection drops adequately. He was slow and awkward dropping back and got beaten twice in a row around the outside by a speed rush for a sack. Havent ever seen that before from Lane and haven’t seen it since, so I think it’s safe to chalk both of those missed blocks up to his sprained knee.
With the perspective of time, how does Lane compare to the other two OTs taken with him in the draft?
Let’s just say that the Jags and KC WISH they had Lane Johnson..
..
In a redraft, Kyle Long would probably be better competition for Lane as the top OL in 2013,.., both are head and shoulders over,Joekel and Fisher
..
Obviously Ziggy would go ahead of Dion.. And Desmond Trufant would be a top 10 pick
He’s still the best of that bunch, although I’m not sure that’s saying a whole lot.
Fisher has been benched and Jockel has been extremely underwhelming in Jax.
Agree with this analysis. There’s nothing wrong necessarily with Lane’s performance. He’s been a good player since day one. The thing is that there was a lot of hype about his training and him trying to take that next step to dominant level play. We haven’t seen that big jump from good starter to great/dominant starter. But, Lane is far from a disappointment.
ah, i see, that makes Tommy’s position more clear. I personally haven’t been disappointed, but I can see him not living up to what we might have been hoping for so far.
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2015/10/16/eagle-eye-odell-beckham-jr-open-field-speed/#WSyKvQsLsrZIeSUi.99
The thing with [Beckham] is, I think his best attribute is his swagger,” said Jordan Matthews, who is friends with Beckham. “He plays with a swagger that’s hard to compare to a lot of people. I think everything comes from that, from his confidence.”
No Jordan. That’s not the thing with ODB. The thing with ODB is that he’s an incredible route runner with incredible hands and incredible body control.
I’m tired of Jordan Matthews.
There is the WR who wants to make a play
There is the WR who thinks he can make a play
There is the WR who knows he will make the play…
Nothing wrong with what Matthews said.
Except he’s wrong.
“Swagger” isn’t what make Beckham good. If “swagger” meant anything we’d be putting First Down Freddie in the Hall of Fame.
I think people are dissecting this way too much. All of ODB other attributes are obvious … Matthews saying ODB has it all
Fair enough.
Agreed. He’s not saying that ODB doesn’t have a bunch of skills in addition to his confidence, he’s saying that his confidence really puts him over the top.
I played WR, and I can tell you with no exaggeration that the absolute biggest determinant in how someone plays the ball in the air, is his confidence. There were times when I just had that edge and when it came time to make a contested catch, or really any catch, I knew I was coming down with it and I did. There were also times when I remember being nervous, hesitant or unsure of my skills and that’s always when I’d end up dropping a ball or not making the play. Most people have days when they feel extra confident and days when they doubt themselves, few people, though, have this innate and unwavering confidence and it allows them to really excel. Nothing wrong with what he said. I think people discount far too often how much the mind effects physical performance.
Very true. I would pull down balls over much more skilled and athletic players just because when I saw the ball go up, I knew in my mind that the ball was mine. That is, until I came up against players who were much much more skilled and athletic. Then, it didn’t matter quite so much.
Did you play against guys named..Cary Williams and Bradley Fletcher?
So what you’re trying to tell me is that Jordan Matthews has zero confidence? Damn what an act he gives during interviews then.
not at all
Confidence is part of it. Having the skills to do it is a ton of it. ODB didn’t learn how to make ridiculous one handed catches just by being more confident than other people.
The first line of my comment: “He’s not saying that ODB doesn’t have a bunch of skills in addition to his confidence, he’s saying that his confidence really puts him over the top.”
4th and 26 was potentially the greatest play on that day during that game.
100% due to the most “swagger” during that game on that day.
Jordan is the type of guy that is always looking at how he can grow. I am sure when he was asked to comment on ODB, in his mind he heard was, “What can you learn from ODB’s game?” whether that was the actual question or not.
I’m tired of him dropping the damn ball, but I honestly believe that will pass soon. If he is catching 8 a game for 100 and a TD nobody is tired of him.
He needs 10 targets a game, at least
He needs to make plays. This offense can get Riley Cooper open.
You don’t expend a 2nd round pick + whatever currency we used to move up to get him for a guy that does the bare minimum required of a receiver.
But, yeah, the bare minimum would be a start.
Let’s not confuse do the bare minimum and performance. From everything I read, he does ALL HE CAN to become better. This is strictly a performance issue IMO.
Right on. I’m glad you said it.
It’s the talent and skill that makes the swagger, not vice versa.
Yeah I’m so tired of the only WR with more than 8 catches on the season (30), because he doesn’t give the answer I’m looking for, get him out of here!
That’s funny, I made a comment about that dumb quote on the other site. I would rather have either Mac or DeSean than Matthews, but JM is an okay player for us.
No way, Matthews over Jackson all day. Future value, current value, playoff value, locker room value.
nah he’s awesome
Tommy, you forgot about zach ertz. He has been breaking out for 3 seasons
And he has been “dating” Julie Johnson. I can understand why he needed groin surgery.
why is dating in quotes? this is curious
Because I thought it was less offensive than Fing
I did a google search. Apparently there is more than one Julie Johnson.
That would be the US Women’s soccer player.
Good. Although I am sure the author has a really nice personality.
No doubt.
Skip and Stephan A ripping chip again… I swear they spend a segment every day ripping Chip… Wish they would at least get some original material, usual tired narratives, doesn’t fit in the pro’s, belongs in college, can’t get free agents ti sign in philly, Riley Cooper lover blah blah blah how are these clowns allowed to list all the great players chip gave Away ever day when
1) Desean hasn’t played this year and may have reinjured his hamstring yesterday
2) Shady has missed almost this entire season and announced he won’t come back until he is 100% lol as if there are any guys playing in week 5 that are 100%
3) Herremans was benched after 1 game LOL
4) Mathis has been on the ground or whiffing on a clock every time I looked to see how he was doing it feels like
5) Maclin we tried to keep and is now becoming the “prevent defense slayer and King of garbage time stats” in KC playing with a
QB who is allergic to WR’s
6) Bradley Fletcher is currently unrmployed
7) Carry has started to show his limitations already in Seattle
8) Nate is hurt but Thurmond made more big plays in 5 weeks than Nate made in 5 years
9) anyone know how Cole is doing? The defense he plays on is pretty bad
10) Boykin literally hasn’t seen the field on a team that has crappier corners that we have in Philly
…
I’m sorry, but as we stand TODAY, how the fuck can you make a case Against
cHips personnel moves? We tried to keep Maclin, we didn’t get rid of him. fOles is the only player we got rid of that has done anything this year.. When is someone going to call these media hacks on this bullshit, flat out lie of a narrative? It’s pathetic
Skip and A are trolls. Everyone always saying ignore trolls. Nobody ignores them. They are irrelevant.
If the Eagles lose, I simply cannot watch ESPN First Take. Skip is the worst, spewing his Pro-Cowboys vitriol every morning. It’s almost unbearable watching Skip drool over the Cowboys when it is so obvious that they are not a good team right now. Stephen A is new to the Chip hating bandwagon. He at least took a short ride on the anti-chip bus after cutting Desean and is now a full-fledged passenger now that a few butt-hurt ex-players started claiming racism, mainly Lesean McCoy who appears extremely arrogant and like such a cruddy dude nowadays. It’s funny how we overlooked all of the downright rude and nasty things McCoy did (the tipping incident and stranding a woman on the highway namely) when he was an Eagle, but it is easy to see Shady’s true colors now after his reactions to being dumped by Chip
you know who i actually really like and think usually has good input is Mark Schlereth. Lately though, all he want’s to do is talk about how Chip has been exposed and isn’t cut out for the NFL. He is a classic case of an old school guy who frowns upon new ideas and, to be fair, he doubted Chip from the beginning. He’s been fairly quiet for 2 years since Chip had 2 winning seasons in a row but now the iron is hot and it is time to strike. I feel like he has been waiting for a bad stretch of games just so he could say “I told you so.” What’s he going to do if the birds turn it around? Wait until the next time the Eagles go on a losing streak?
why yes, thats exactly what he will do because theres nobody to call him out on it
Except us! A small but hardy bunch!
Great post
[…] breaks down some of the breakout players for the 2015 season […]
What do you think cox’s stats would be like if you switched him with jk watt in Houston. And vice versa for watt here in our 2 gap 3-4
Interesting question. I think Cox’s stats would skyrocket, and JJ is such a superhero he’d dominate anywhere in any scheme.
Chip talked about the Giants vertical offense, how they are probably going to throw bombs at us all night assuming their WRs play so this should be a big test for the secondary to show how much they have improved defending X plays.., giving up the two X-plays were one of the few negatives from from the saints game.
..
Eli is showing a decent balance of getting the ball out quick while also taking his shots down field..corners will be tested, and they have to hold up like they did against the saints making Eli hold the ball long enough for our pass rush to get home..
..’TE Donnell and RB Shane Vereen are also
Very important to their passing game..
..
We need to see Sproles produce more than Vereen, and Ertz/Celeck producing more than Donnell.. If we win those two Matchups (of course OL, DL and QBs play factors into this) it should be hard for..A banged up group of WRs to overcome that and beat us.. They are both
Crafty weapons. Saw donnell catch the game winner against Navarrow Bowman,’our TEs and RBS need to produce more than their giant counterparts
you read that SI article on Embiid/Sixers. Sure it was a bit misleading but the stuff on Embiid does not sound good. That being said, hes almost chalked up as a loss to me anyway and you just hope if he does come back and play and do anything, its a bonus at this point. Still cant wait to watch that team improve this season and then next draft will hopefully be epic, they have to hit on some picks.
Vegas has the over/under on Sixres wins this season at 21.5. Ugh.
too high!! get the first pick.
Rueben Randall is a full practice participant today so
Unless he suffers a setback, he will play on Monday
..
But ODB is Sitting out another day of practice..would be great to not have to deal with Odell in a must win division game, but with the extra practice day I assume he will end up playing
I think he’ll try but won’t be able to make it fully come gameday.
Agholor practice?
Nope
Not sure I can agree on NCIII. As much as I tolerated Cary Williams (tolerated, no liked), I think that NCIII is playing better than Williams ever did. I am just using the eye test here, but the dude looks like a solid NFL starter.
Rowe should develop in the next couple of years. Keep him around at least until that happens. The suggestion of upgrading him sounds really easy to say, but we all know how hard it has been to find good help in that area. Honestly I think he has been right on par with Maxwell… if not better.
Just my 2 cents.
I agree. I was really surprised to see Tommy’s aggressive take on Carroll. Sure I’d love it if Carroll was Darrell Revis or Richard Sherman, but I think he’s been excellent. I’d be much more inclined to say that he is a must resign, instead of a must replace.
Obviously the hope is that Rowe will eventually be able to start on the outside. Carroll would be excellent depth, he can play nickel and dime and is an above average starter.
Yeah resign him and attempt to find other options in addition. I would be fine with that. The fact Fletch and Williams found starting jobs on good teams so fast doesn’t bode well to find a guy better than the guy who is better than them!
I know Fletch lost his job (and got cut?). Just saying it speaks volumes of the state of secondaries around the league.
I think the Carey Williams Party is over in SEA
Yea, trying to improve in FA is difficult regardless of how much you spend, and if you want to bargain basement shop like Williams and Fletcher the chances of success are even smaller (even if the financial risk isn’t nearly as bad).
But, there were some damn good CBs on the free agent market last year:
Revis
Cromartie
Maxwell
Tramon Williams
Parish Cox
Chris Culliver
Terrell Brown
Brandon Browner
Kyle Arrington
Walter Thurmond
(Brandon Flowers, Kareem Jackson both resigned with their teams, but were also UFA)
Not anywhere near that level of talent in the FA pool next offseason though. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cornerback/
I don’t see anyone on that list that I’d want to break the bank on next year or who is clearly heads and shoulders better than Nolan Carroll. With Maxwell, Rowe, Carroll, Shepherd (pending recovery), and both our safeties being converted CBs that can play the slot well, I think we’re in good long term shape at the position if we resign Carroll to a reasonable contract.
Uhh, Josh Norman is on that list. And Amukamara isn’t bad either. But its true that it isn’t exactly a stacked position for FA next year.
I totally missed Norman when I glanced at the list. Probably because his success is so new and his salary is so low that I lost focus when scrolling down that far. But, he’s been excellent over the last 16 games.
Amukamara is a really solid player. His 6 passes defensed this year is good for 2nd in the NFL. However, and I’ll admit that I’m probably wrong because I hate all Giants players so much, but he just doesn’t excite me all that much. I wouldn’t be excited to pay him $8-10million per year to be our starting CB.
If I’m going to invest $20-22million per year into our two starting CBs, one of them better be able to shut down the opposing teams best WR consistently. To spend that kind of money on a tandem of Maxwell and Amukamara just seems silly, especially when I see real potential in Rowe and not a huge difference in production between Amukamara and Carroll. Amukamara is obviously better, but how much of his being better than Carroll actually translates to in game benefit and is it worth twice the salary commitment? I don’t think so.
I’d rather see us go out and back the brinks truck up to Von Miller (although I doubt Denver lets him leave next year), than spend premium money on Amukamara.
All that said, I’d be very surprised if both Amukamara and Norman aren’t resigned by their respective teams and never hit FA to begin with.
I thought we could have gotten a couple of mid level guys in here — had my eye on Parish Cox, but almost all of those are no goes from a personality standpoint (cromartie, cox, browner), revis is too expensive, though he probably wins us 2 games over maxwell (ATL + WAS, DAL game is def closer)
Yea, agreed. A lot of those guys don’t fit from a culture stand point and some don’t fit our scheme well. Wasn’t trying to say we should have gone out and signed one of them over Maxwell. Was just replying to Tumtum, who had said that the fact Williams and Fletchers received offers to start for contenders shows just how limited the FA pool often is and the hopes that we could easily improve on Carroll might be a bit hopeful.
And, I agree with Tumtum. Because, as you see, there was a ton of good talent available last year, more so than in most years, and teams with Super Bowl aspirations like Seattle and New England, still had to rely on those two bums.
It is interesting that SEA hasn’t been able to hit on any more decent DBs. I figured they’d be a farm for 6’1 205 CBs.
Yea, sometimes I think luck plays more into this whole thing than we like to admit. It’s a lot more fun to talk about how Bill Belichick is a genius, instead of saying he lucked out ridiculously hard when he took a 6th round flyer on a QB who turned out to be the best to ever play the position.
Everyone knew the Eagles were gonna take Earl Thomas in that draft when they traded up. He was a clear elite talent and the best player on the board. The Eagles gaffed and he unexpectedly fell to Seattle. They made the obvious pick (no one needed to have a stroke of genius to turn the selection card in with his name on it), because they lucked out due to the Eagles failing to make the obvious pick. Then they hit incredibly well in late rounds with Sherman and Chancellor. There’s some skill involved in targeting an undervalued asset at the time like those big DBs were, but no one in their right mind, and not even the Seahawks themselves saw those guys becoming that great.
I actually don’t mind hearing josh Huff talk trash about DRC and Landon Collins. There is no bulletin board material in division rivalry games, teams want to beat each other enough as is… Seeing Huff have some success last week, im fine with him running his mouth about DRC a bit because now I’m going to hold him to the expectations to go back his talk up..
..
Fairness to Huff, it’s not like he was lying… He said that when DRC is locked in he looks like one of the best cover guys in the league but that he takes plays off and THATS when Huff will attack him and let DRC know that it’s going to be a long day..
..
As for Landon Collins he said he is a good player in run support who will play in the box and make some big hits but that he can’t cover, which isnt something everyone hasn’t already said about the rookie safety.
,.
He opened his mouth and threw down the Gauntlet to DRC, now I’m goinna hold him to it and expect him to bring it against the Giants..
..
huff is a knucklehead Who talks To much, but his quotes arent as entertaining as Sammy Watkins who had his agent complain to the team.. Some of the quotes where great “YALL making me look bad”, “I need 10 passes each game and I’ll be happy with how many yards j get”. .. Seems like Rex Ryan is on his way to allowing “the inmates to run the asylum”.., this team is going to implode”…. And I think Mr. watkins is a little misguided, Tyrod Isnt the super QB people who jump on a bandwagon after two games seem to think, he damn sure isnt a QB we will see drop back and throw 35-40 passes per game… They are going to want Tyrod on a 20-25 pass pitch count… If they only throw 20 times a game, it’s going to be hard to keep sammy happy and give him 10 passes per game….. I assume they will underperform under Ryan, they won’t play up to the Talemt level of the roster
Dude has one decent game and is mouthing off already? He barely has enough good plays to outweigh all the dumb mistakes he’s made in his career. Shut up and try not being the 5th WR first.
He fumbled one time… people need to let that go. He has shown this year every time his number has been called.
And everything he said about DRC is true. We all know he takes plays off! He took a season off!
People complain that they don’t want a team of choir boys…
I’ll accept some non-choir boys to get elite talent. If your Dez Bryant you can afford to be a bit of a knucklehead and I’ll be willing to put up with you on the team because you completely change the dynamic of the game.
But, the Josh Huffs of the world (who I like a lot and think is going to be a really good play maker for us), simply can’t get away with being knuckleheads.
That being said, I don’t think anything he said was that bad, but I still think he shouldn’t be saying things like that. It’s dumb, it does nothing good for you or your team and it looks pathetic when you’re calling out players with more career success than you.
I just don’t think this particular instance is a big deal. Would it have been best for Huff to just say nice things? Yes.
But it don’t think its going to make Collins cover better or DRC make tackles.
Oh, I totally agree, it’s pretty much a non-issue. I’m actually sad we’ve all spent this much time discussing it. If we lose because DRC is so fired up by Huffs comments then we didn’t deserve to win anyways.
If Huff was poking Sherman or Thomas… than id have my head in my hands
Well said Will and I agree.
The fumble was only one of many mistakes.
It wasn’t really some great shit talking… He was asked about the Giant secondary and he basically said what everyone who has ever talked about DRC and Landon Collins have said, praises their strengths, and talks about their weaknesses, DRC takes plays off. A well known fact. And Landon Collins is a great Box safety who struggles in coverage..
..
I have no problem with him saying he plans to go hard at DRC all game to not let him take plays off.. And some players talk and make it personal to get themselves going.. I have no problem with what Huff said, but,I better see him back it up… I need him To make the saints game his turning point, instead of just a good game in an inconsistent young career.. He needs to stack one good game on top of the next… So I’m more interested in seeing him back up his words and keep the pressure on DRC by going hard all game.. And if he finds himself lined up against Prince’s 178lb back up, RUN HIM THE FUCK OVER!!!! Toss his little ass out the way, and make sure you bully and punish that frail little corner on every single run play..
..
It hasn’t just been 1 fumble tho….I’m have NEVER not believe in his talent and physical ability, but memtally he has been a mess up until this point.. It’s not just the fumble, it’s the running the wrong routes, just a lack of being mentally sharp and Im sure lack of comsistently due to the injuries HASNT helped…. Hopefully memtally he is finally ready to perform to his talents potential on a weekly basis, but he HAS TO SHOW UP in this Prime Time game. He needs to prove that the saints game was his turning point and start consistentky producing and be sharp memtally, eliminating the dumb mistakes that have held him back up untiL now?
..
And with Agholar dealing with an injury, Huff needs to step up and make his mark on this game
Ill give you that… Although I think Ags may have already made more costly mistakes than Huff did his rookie year. If he gets one more PI call on a rub route I’m going to scream. Or him not lining up correctly negating a TD.
Oh yeah, he def needs to grow the hell up ASAP… The small mistakes are driving me crazy..
..
If Ags and Huff can each just catch 4 or 5 passes per game, it’s a huge boost to our Attack
Agreed. Never a good idea to say anything derogatory about your upcoming opponent. Doesn’t do anything positive. Like Huff said, when DRC is locked in he is a top CB. Why give him any reason to be more locked in than normal.
In addition to that, it’s always pathetic looking when someone with barely any success at all, starts making comments about players that have had a ton more success than them.
Yea not to mention that DRC won’t even be covering Huff in the first place.
Memories of Dez dragging DRC into endzone haunt me to this day. 2012 was terrible.
He covered Dez pretty well a few weeks ago.
Watching DRC that year was so freaking depressing! That clip of him barely trying to swat the ball away on a slant pattern and then standing there shaking his head and clapping his hands while the WR actually made the catch and started running downfield is on permanent repeat in my head every time his name comes up.
huff is going to hurt DRC is he tries to tackle him.
I’m expecting a breakout game for Huff, every week. and one of theses weeks its going to really happen.
Marshal Yanda signed a 4yr/32mil extension. I think we should have kept Mathis..
I think Yanda is way better
He didnt want to be with the Eagles.
Chip didn’t want him.
Agreed. The narrative that he didn’t want to be here is lazy. Chip pushes that narrative to alleviate his responsibility for what happened. Mathis has been very vocal about the fact that he was planning on showing up. Even tweeted his flight itinerary. Plus, it ignores the entire dynamic of leverage. Mathis had none. He had no choice but to show up. Just like last year. Whenever you have all the leverage, it’s never in your best interest to give it all up and not use it to your advantage. Chip didn’t want him here. Maybe it was because Chip doesn’t want anyone on the team that refuses to show up for OTAs to voice displeasure with their contract, or because he doesn’t want players that ask for their release if they’re not granted what they want. But, the bottom line is, that if Chip wanted him to play, he was going to play and play to the best of his abilities.
Agree.
Whatever the reason… he became a bigger headache than he was worth in Chip’s eyes.
Yup, is what it is at this point.
It had to have been creating a bigger problem in the locker room than everyone initially let on… on top of all the other “normal” drama we have every spring. Mathis picked the wrong time to play his hand
It was very interesting to hear all the lineman still here (mostly Peters and Kelce) be so apathetic and unsupportive of Mathis after he was released.
Maybe it was just fear of going against the company line, trying to preserve their own job, maybe it was just the whole “next man up” football mantra. But, it seemed a lot more like they were kind of fed up with him as well.
I think they were tired of being asked about it everyday
Definitely possible as well. But, a lot of those comments were right after the release. So, it was really the first time they were being asked about it.
I’ve seen a lot of players get released. Almost every time, the remaining players on the team seem to go out of their way to say something good about the departing player and how good they are while making sure to express confidence in the new starter and explaining that, “it is what it is, so and so is a great player, but next man up and we have supreme confidence in this other guy.”
Both Peters and Kelce were downright dismissive of Mathis, and said nothing (that I remember at least) positive about his play. Then almost immediately all these articles came out with unnamed sources and Tra Thomas saying that Mathis’ style of play was seen as selfish by other players and that it actually made their pass sets harder and made them look bad sometimes, because he wouldn’t do what he was supposed to. Just seemed weird.
You also had other players saying things like we want players that want to be here. We’re all out here busting our tails and working together and building something and if you’re not here youre not part of that family and culture we’re building.
yeah you gotta wonder what the internal evaluation of players were that allowed chip to drop those two and take barbre / andrews / tobin, was stoutland or tra saying there’s no difference?
Man I hope not! I mean, it was clear that they were all high on Barbre (coaches and players all raved about him…unnecessarily so as well). They really went out of their way to praise him.
It was also clear that Herremans was finished. So, it’s not inconceivable that they thought the move from Herremans to Barbre would offer little decline in production at a substantial savings.
But, Gardner, Tobin, Andrews? They never seemed to go out of their ways to praise. Initially, they made no decision who would be the starter, they just threw all of them in there on a rotation and let it shake out. Unlike Barbre who was a clear day one starter since March.
Maybe, they figured one of those three plus Moffett would distinguish themselves. But, that’s a lot of hoping and wishing, especially when you’re constructing a line where not a single player is flanked by someone he’s familiar playing with.
Sad Barbre’s been the worst one (run blocking)
Yea I have no idea what they saw in him. He started half a game in GB against a clearly declined Clay Matthews and held up reasonably OK. Didn’t give up any huge pressures, but we were running a lot towards the end of the game. All of a sudden, everyone on the staff was in awe of him. I just never saw it.
I felt the same way, especially when Kelce was like “whatever” i thought those two were close.
Kelce hasn’t played all that well now too.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Barbre settles down and ends up being solid for us when we look back on this season… Shame Gardner got hurt, I really liked his game
Barbre ironically is old too. He’s been the worst member of the line so far IMHO. I think Mathis would have made a huge difference in the first couple of games b/c of the one thing you always preach which is continuity.
I think the lack of Chemistry between the C and OGs was more important than we all thought.
This! Combined with all the slanting we saw in the first month of the season, these guys looked lost trying to compensate for each other. Plus in our system the C and G are often doing combo blocks where they initially double team the dlineman and then one of them has to eventually peel off and work his way to the second level. Leave the double team too soon and the dlineman makes the tackle, come off too late and you can’t get to the LB and he makes the tackle. Takes a lot of timing and communication/chemistry, because if both of you guys or neither of you guys leave the double team because you’re expecting the other guy to leave and the play gets blown up. Add in the slanting and twisting and these guys’ heads were spinning trying to process things quickly, which wasn’t helped by us pushing the tempo. And, Kelce seemed to know he was dealing with two guys to either side that weren’t comfortable with things yet and was over thinking things trying to compensate for them.
yeah can’t imagine getting blown up and then going 20 secs later and getting blown up again w/out any time to really communicate. Sort of amazing that he was able to have continued success running tempo all the time at oregon and the first two years here.
Mathis should,have definitely made a big difference in September, THATS a certainty.. But if Chip felt it was time to transition to another Guard we can’t base it off of what happened in September. Taking a step back to than take two steps forward is pretty standard when making such changes at a position like OL where 5 guys really need to be able to play together against whatever scheme the defense throws at them..
..
If at the end of the season we look back and Barbre struggles all year like he did in september, losing Mathis would have been the wrong move.. If we look back on the season and Barbre settles down in October and plays some solid ball the rest of the way, it will have been the right move..
Agree. For me I would have kept Mathis for the year, simply not to waste JP’s last season (or two).
I doubt that headache is worth the headache that is the revolving door at OG right now.
If only Chip had a crystal ball…
Ray Charles could have seen this coming.
No need to confer with Miss Cleo. No one should expect to insert a 31 year old journeyman with 8 career starts and a 29 year old fringe roster guy with even less starts, have NO ONE along your offensive line playing next to someone that they’ve ever played with, and have no issues with chemistry, communication, and lack of talent.
For whatever reason…. Chip was confident in the guys he had and his coaching staff….
Do I think it was the right decision? Hell No
But Chip shouldn’t have a guy as an OL coach if he doesn’t trust him to do his job. Dude took a chance and lost.
Its only his 3rd year…. I just hope he isn’t as stubborn as he comes off
Good post, I agree, and ultimately I think the offensive line will settle down a bit. It may never be a strength this year like we’d ideally want, but I doubt we’ll see the same level of complete and utter ineptitude going forward like we saw in the first few games.
I think Chip made a calculated risk with the hopes that he had probably one more year until the age situation on the offensive line got to a critical situation. It’s cost us some games initially, but hopefully they’ll right the ship and overall his decision won’t look as bad at the end of the season.
Next year though…there’s no excuses. Peters is already starting to decline, both guards can easily be replaced and are old in their own right (32 and 30 years old next year). No prospects on the roster at all. We need to invest serious resources into the position next year. At least one FA and 2 draft picks (one that should be fairly high – first 3 rounds).
Agreed. Although, I’m fine with releasing Mathis, HOWEVER, if you do that, you absolutely have to replace him. You can’t just release him and then move the 2nd and 3rd stringers up to starters and the 4th and 5th stringers up to the key backups. That’s terrible roster management.
Yup. I was hoping for a trade for a decent OG but Chip didn’t do shit. He’s going to be forced into drafting multiple OL soon.
I know they made a play at Orlando Franklin, but he apparently did not return their love. But, I was so disappointed that they really didn’t have a plan B. Signing a former drug addict that has been hanging out with Jay Glazer for the past 2 years should be plan D or E…not plan B.
I honestly would have no problem if they spent 3-4 picks next year on offensive linemen. There’s just not that many other holes on this team. Unless we lose out and another Julio Jones is available, you really can’t justify going WR again high in the draft. They’re committed to Bradford at this point. They’re not going to trade a 2nd round pick for him and let him walk next year, so no QB. RB, no way after the money we have committed already. TE, doubtful. Defensive line, that’s our biggest strength. ILB, that’s an embarrassment of riches. OLB, it’d be great to get a top notch pass rusher, and if that’s available you obviously go in that direction rather than a first round guard, but if not Graham is at least servicable for the time being. CB, I’m happy with Maxwell, Carroll, Rowe, Shepherd. Safety is a strength, just need to resign Thurmond and bring in a decent 3rd S for depth.
So, I’d draft an OT and 2 guards with my top three picks if there’s players available that I like at those spots.
Theyre probably bot to blame. If he wanted to be in Philly, he wouldnt have talked about his contract, he woild have shown up to OTAs and he would have kept his mouth shut. Chip was probably a dick too but it takes two to tango.
Of course, Mathis has proven more than once to be kind of a dick, even if it was slightly lovable when he was on our team.
But, I disagree that a player can’t talk about his contract with the team he wants to be with. He didn’t make anything public. He never went to the media. It was all behind closed doors. If anything Chip was the only one to bring it out in public by putting Mathis on blast when he said they had been trying to trade him for 2 years and no one had offered ANYTHING. That was a dick move.
It’s very possible that Mathis wanted to stay here, but also wanted to ask for more money. I’m sure at some point in your career you’ll ask for a raise if you think your performance deserves it. That’s basically what Mathis did.
The difference is that he refused to show up to OTAs (which in fairness are voluntary), and Rosenhous asked Chip if they weren’t going to give him what he wanted why wouldn’t they just release him and let him go get the contract he “deserved”. Incredibly bad move if Rosenhous was truly working in his clients best interest at heart. He had to know Mathis wasn’t going to get that on the open market (and he didn’t). I just don’t think either of them thought that floating that in the conversation would immediately make him dead to Chip.
Seems like Chip’s mentality is, if a player wants to be released, no matter how good, or how vital to our success, he’ll release them and move on, because he wants guys committed to the team.
Mathis was trolling on Twitter though
I don’t have twitter so I only see the tweets repeated in articles, so it’s definitely possible that I didn’t see that. I thought most if not all of his comments came out after his release. Didn’t remember seeing anything salacious though prior to that.
On the other hand, I knew Boykin was gone the moment he started with the whole #justanickel thing.
If he didnt make it public how did we know that was the reason he was traded? Was it speculation?
Mathis quietly went to the Eagles in February to readdress his desire for a new contract. The Eagles proceeded to tell Rosenhous that they would not redo his contract. Rosenhous floated the idea of releasing Mathis and the Eagles told him that they would allow him to gage other teams’ interest at the combine in trading for him and if someone else wanted to pay Mathis that kind of money and give the Eagles a draft pick in return they’d trade him.
Reports started to surface after the combine that there were whispers that Mathis’ name was being brought up as being on the trading block. At the owners meeting, the story first broke that Rosenhous was contacting other teams to see if they’d trade for Evan. Chip was asked if he was really trying to trade Mathis and he said, yea we’ve been trying to trade Mathis for 2 years and we’ve received not a single offer.
I might have missed something but I don’t remember Mathis ever saying something about his displeasure to the media until after his release.
I believe both Chip and Mathis were bullheaded. Chip by just releasing Mathis knowing he was already down a guard and having possibly one replacement guard but not two, and Mathis for not taking the money in ’14 but expecting it to still be offered in ’15. I do not know of too many businesses which offers a raise a second time when it was already turned down. If Mathis was younger and still prime, maybe. I just did not see a lot of negotiating on either side. Show up for voluntary OTA’s, keep your agent under wraps and muzzled and perform. See what develops and if you are not satisfied, then walk. The Eagles did not make Mathis turn down the money. This was his own free will and maybe some bad advice from your agent. Both sides had a hand in it by talking to the media and it could have been handled better. It is over now and it is was it has turned out to be.
Yanda is better and younger. 31 versus 34 years of age. His average salary is $6.4 million per year over the length of the contract. Nothing is guaranteed in his age 34-36 years. Basically, that’s on par with what Mathis already had, since he was scheduled to make $12million in his 34 and 35 year old seasons with no guarantees at that point. He wanted escalators put in the contract based on pro-bowls that could get him up to $8.5 million a year in those two seasons. If in year 4 of this deal, Yanda asks for an extra $2million as a 34 year old guard on the down swing of his career with no leverage, the Ravens will tell him to go pound sand as well.
That being said, I think it’s pretty obvious that we should have kept Mathis. We had all the leverage, $5.5million was not too much to pay him this year, and he was going to show up and play because he had no choice. I can understand cutting him, but that’s only part of the move, you have to replace him, and just deciding to move our 2nd and 3rd stringers up to first string and move our 4th and 5th stringers up to key backup positions was just an absurd misappropriation of resources.
Think chip setting message don’t even think about asking for more $$ mid deal.
Yea, it seems like Chip has no desire to re-do contracts that he isn’t forced to. The Peters extension, the financial “thank you for a great season” to Barwin, those were all under Howie’s watch as GM.
This is just my opinion, but I think Chip is understanding if a player asks for more money, but has no tolerance for players who then react counter to the team mentality when that request is denied. If you’d otherwise show up to training, but because they won’t redo your contract, you decide to stay home, or if you flat out tell them that you’d rather be released than play under your current deal, he has no patience for.
Barwin was extended in March 2015. That was a month and a half after Marynowitz was promoted.
Ah you’re completely right!
Any word on Ags or Kendricks?
Agholor missed todays practice so he is looking unlikely to play Monday but given the extra days rest there is a chance he suits up. As for Kendricks I heard has hasn’t been doing much in practice outside of running on the side, I assume his situation is like Agholor’s in that the extra days rest could put him in position to play Monday.
I really want to get Ags going. He needs over 5 Tgts a game.
I agree. I also really want to see Huff get more playing time and see what he can do with expanded minutes.
At least Cooper is playing better. He has been getting open a lot. Just needs to make the easy catches. I’m in no hurry to see Austin out there
Couldn’t agree more about Austin Will. As for Cooper I agree he has been getting open I just know this is possibly his last year here and want to see Huff get the expanded role to see if he is going to be a player worth keeping in a couple of years.
any possibility that Coop plays well enough to stay here, he is a pretty good blocker…
The Eagles can draft a “good blocking” wide receiver in the later rounds of the draft that are equally or more athletic then Cooper. So my response is I hope they don’t keep him.
Going to have to agree to a big paycut contract restructuring
I’d recommend that he take the ultimate pay cut.
whats cooper’s problem with all the whining and bitching when a pass doesn’t get to him correctly?
he seems like a big baby now
I have no idea what happened to Coopers hands. He had some really good hands in 2013. Made some really impressive one handed grabs, didn’t have any memorable drops. Then 2014 starts and he can’t catch a cold. Always jumping or hopping right before the catch when he doesn’t have to.
kendricks basically said not playing. At this point he’s going to miss almost half the season (i don’t see him coming back before the bye).
Yea that’s the worst part he is really injury prone.
He needs to take up Yoga or something. Seems like a muscle strain or pull every year with him
Neither practiced
Both are out.
https://twitter.com/howardeskin/status/655107102558527488
Mathews is limited with a Groin injury per Birds 24/7
yeah he stays nicked up only downside about him.
I’m hoping its only precautionary. I’m not confident in Murray. He has been looking like Bryce Brown out there
Yea its something that happened at todays practice. From what I read though it isn’t anything serious.
Groin injuries really seems to be a problem this year, does anyone have any theories on why?
One things for sure Chip does risk losing the locker room trying to prevent all future groin injuries.
My theory is too much hookers and blow.
Interesting. I suspect the opposite, Too few. Need to exercise that groin properly.
Not warming up or stretching properly ?
hydration?
We all knew Mathews would get hurt at some point this year. He’s missed time in every NFL season he’s played.
That’s a big loss for this offense. I’ve been saying since the offseason that he’d be the best back on the team, and he’s definitely out played Murray by a mile. It’s not devastating if he can’t go, because we at least have other guys that can play, but it’s a big benefit for this offense to have him bust off 10 yard runs.
What I like about this,young team that I hope has started to come together is that the next 3 games are all PrimeTime nationally televised games
Momday Night Giants
Sunday night Panthers
Bye
Sunday night @ Jerry world…
..
With a kid like Cox and Bradford starting to have success and get some recognition, and Huff finally deciding to show up last week, Im curious to see which Young Eagles use this stretch of Primetime platforms to become household names? What’s Fletcher Cox going to do for a Monday night prime time encore? He has dominated Justin PUGH in the past who is also banged up…
..
I’m expecting MOnday night to be the National breakout Game of Bradford and Murray led Eagle Offense, with those two having a monster nigjt leading us to hanging 40 plus points on the score board….curry? Logan? Barwin? Ertz? Huff? jordan Hicks? ROWE? Which young player is going to put on a show onPRIMETIME?
Still waiting for Ertz. I’m starting to question the need to spend a pick that high on a TE. Perhaps the resources would have been better spent in OL, OLB or QB. Hindsight is 50/50 but putting a high second rounder into a TE seems kinda silly. Who is the last TE taken that high with amazing stats, game changing ability,etc?
When SAM really settles into this offense we should find out exactly what Ertz is capable of… It can take some time, it doesn’t help that Ertz is playing with his 4th QB in 3 seasons.. heck Tyler Eifert who was picked ahead of him in round 1 is just now finally coming into his own and starting to produce. Travis KELCE has also been inconsistent
..
The passes will come, I was more pleased to see him actually helping out blocking in the run game last week
Ertz has all the skills you want in a TE. He’s spent two years losing snaps to Celek because Celek was such a fantastic blocker. This year he’s finally playing more snaps than Celek, but the offense has been completely anemic for a lot of that time. Also, remember he’s just coming back from a sports hernia operation. He had the surgery just 4-5 weeks before the season. He missed the entire preseason and probably wasn’t even at full strength those first few weeks. In addition to that, he left with the injury right when Bradford was starting to fully come back from his rehab and taking 11-on-11 drills. There’s been more than a few times that it’s obvious their timing and chemistry is off. That should get better the more they play together.
Now the offense is starting to extend drives and have more plays per game, and he’s made some really nice catches in recent weeks. Only a matter of time until he really establishes himself. I don’t dislike that pick at all.
There were only 2 lineman taken between our 2nd and 3rd round pick that we missed out on by taking Ertz, Manelik Watson (OT Raiders, 3 games started and 1 ruptured Achilles this offseason) and Larry Warford (Starting OG Lions – Named Offensive Rookie of the year by PFF, great guard, but lasted till the 3rd round two picks before we took Bennie Logan), only 1 OLB was taken (Arthur Brown – OLB Ravens, hasn’t done anything yet, been on IR his entire career), Geno Smith was the only QB taken in that frame (ew).
The best players that we passed on were RBs Leveon Bell, Eddie Lacy, and Giovanni Bernard, CB Johnathan Banks, TE Travis Kelce and OG Larry Warford.
Given a redo with perfect hindsight, I’d much rather have Leveon Bell. And, maybe I’d take Warford instead, but at the time we still had Mathis and Herremans, we had just spent a 1st rounder on an OT, and a TE with elite potential is harder to find.
Gronk is the only game changing TE right now. I guess Ebron could be one if he ever puts it together. You could throw in Jared Cook as the Djax of TEs.
5-3
5-3 going into a stretch of games against
Bucs
miami
lions
..
Before going to Foxboro for the first Chip vs Bellichick bowl..
8-4
Be great! Not THAT far fetched when you consider we went on a similar two month win streak in 2013 after starting that year 1-3…
..
That would be pretty awesome, and it would then put us in last years position, having to take care of business the final stretch where we crashed and burned last year. 3 straight home games
Bills
Cardinals
skins
@Giants.
…
Winnable chance to control our own destiny and make the playoffs, or another epic crash and burn like last seasons DECEMBER collapse
11-5. Lose Cardinals game. Fan base had head explosion.
If they turn this into 11-5, there will be a bunch of National blowhards who will have to eat serious crow after how they laughed at chip
Where as I’m still demanding 11-5 because it is the record I predicted at the start of the season.
And I’m straight out of division games I can stomach losing.
I hear you… My dream is to sweep the division like the colts Do in their shitt division.. 6-0 is my dream, before the,season I said 5–1 would still be good, 4-2 at the very least, with 3-3 In the division being a failure…so we need to win the rest of the division games just to finish 4-2… We can’t stomach another Division loss, and the 1 game that would scare me is the Skins game the week before last.. For whateber reason they play us tôugh and we are 0-2 against Cousins…. I can’t stomach losing to the skins again.
,
I think we are a nightmare matchup againsg Giants winning the last 10 of 13 games vs the Giamts, only time the Giamts beat chip was when Barkley had to play..
..
and we seem to play really well in jerry world. We usually win in dallas while they beat us in Philly.. We get to go to dallas after a bye week
As will I. I didn’t laugh at Chip but I’ve been crying Chip must go for weeks. Will happily devour that bird but, sigh, doubt we get past 8-8 at best.
noooooooooo
That would be me if we lose to Carolina.
Yep read this and tackled a coworker
Don’t even want to play the Pats at this point we stay getting clobbered by them.
Great D beats Great O?
Scouting WR from now on my first criteria will be, can they catch?
But weren’t you the Sammy Coates guy?
Thats why i said, ” from now on.”
Report: chip is closing on a house real soon in the Philly area. The house he is purchasing is close by so he can drive to novacare everyday.. So much for the.chip is going back to college rumors
funnily enough Harbaugh had to spend time dispelling rumors today so at least its not only us.
Clearly he’s gunning for the Temple job
With Mariotta returning to Temple’s graduate school and getting more years of college eligibility.
I knew it all along.
he’s going to rent it out
With NO dismantling ATL, really makes you look at turnovers. Gotta get em, not give em.
Devonta Freeman is a BEAST.
He might just be the best RB for this year right now.
Off topic everyone but with the Ravens locking up Marshall Yanda, would anybody be opposed to making a run at Keleche Osemele?..Only 26 years old right now and is one of the top guards in the NFL.
…
D3FB what is your opinion on Osemele?. Does he fit the zone blocking scheme the Eagles run?
Probably best fits in a more classic power scheme, but he’s become more athletic since coming into the league. The Eagles have kicked the tires on more power, phone booth type guys recently (some of the OL in the draft they looked at and Moffit) though so who knows.
JR Sweezy and Alex Boone would be the more likely FA candidates.
Oh ok cool, thanks for your take on it friend.
i thought Boone was an interesting trade idea this past offseason. He was seeking a trade if the Niners didn’t give him a new deal, no deal came and he ended up caving in and showing up to camp. Not sure if he’s a “chip guy”, I remember him being a pretty outspoken guy and not just in regards to football. It’ll be pretty interesting to see what he gets in FA, but i think i’d rather the Eagles get younger on the o-line through this draft than overpay for a FA
He’s got a mouth on him and had a drinking problem at OSU, so he’s not the cleanest cut player. Plus he turns 29 before next season, and he’s had some contract issues. Sweezy probably makes the most sense.
I agree that I prefer to adresss OL heavily in the draft, but depending on where the cap goes to we can probably afford one. We need 3 new starters in the next 18 months. Plus it could take some time for some of the young guys to bed in. Signing Sweezy would allow us to take a WR, TE, OLB, or DB if one presents great value in the first 3 rounds.
yup, that would probably be best, great insight!
How about Brandon Brooks of the Texans. He’s a big gaurd but really athletic. PFF has him rated as the #9 OG for whatever that is worth. Him and Swwezy are my top target. Sweezy is more likely to be available though.
I have no notes on Brooks and cant say I’ve paid attention to him since he’s come in the league.
I love his mauling style but he’s too slow to play for us unless we go back to that Juan Castillo type of OL.
Manziel drinking (just 2 officer!), fighting with “impaired girlfriend in car
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25342577/browns-qb-johnny-manziel-pulled-over-by-police-admits-to-drinking
Only a matter of time…
I went from not liking him very much to kinda pulling for him since he admitted he had a problem. I’m not sure if he could have actually done this, but if i was giving him advice or in his family I think the best thing for him would to be getting away from football for a year until he straightens himself out. Don’t know what that would mean for the Browns and his contract, but i think it might have been his best option to ask for a release
Legally, he could sit out for a year and then come back with the Browns on the same contract with no time passed of the deal (he’ll still have 2 years or whatever on his rookie contract).
Fortunately for him, The Browns are the only organization dumb enough to not release him.
Or unfortunately
From Manziel’s POV it’s probably a good thing. If he’s a street free agent, who’s signing him for more than the league minimum?
If only he was drafted by the Cowgirls…
Agreed Thurmond has been great so far, probably best gamble of offseason so far.
What needs to and/or will happen tomorrow:
Jets over Washington
Cards over Steelers
Vikings over Chiefs. And the whole Chiefs roster kills themselves because they still owe me from losing to the Bears last week and knocking me out of my suicide pool. Kill yourselves Chiefs. Seriously, seppuku time losers!
Bengals over Bills
Lions over Bears
Broncos over Browns
Jags over Texans
Titans over Dolphins
Seattle over Panthers
Pack over Chargers
Niners over Ravens
Pats over Colts.
mike vick needs to get that W my fantasy team is stacked w/ steelers
I have Brown in my big money league and Vick is killing Brown’s stats. Vick is just so bad.
yeah on one side Le’veon is going crazy which i like. on the other side Brown sucks.
Well you already knew Bell was going to be good regardless of the QB, but Brown has been getting open and Vick just can’t get him the ball. I put it all on that bums shoulders.
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