In and Out

Posted: May 10th, 2017 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 198 Comments »

Sometimes analyzing the offseason is easier than we make it.

IN

WR Alshon Jeffery
WR Torrey Smith
WR Mack Hollins
WR Shelton Gibson
RB Donnel Pumphrey
QB Nick Foles
QB Matt McGloin
OL Chance Warmack
DE Derek Barnett
DE Chris Long
DT Tim Jernigan
LB Steven Daniels
CB Patrick Robinson
CB Sidney Jones
CB Rasul Douglas

OUT

QB Chase Daniel
RB Kenjon Barner
DE Connor Barwin
DT Bennie Logan
ST Bryan Braman
LB Stephen Tulloch
CB Leodis McKelvin
CB Nolan Carroll

RB Ryan Mathews is going to be cut when he’s healthy enough to pass a physical.

ANALYSIS

The top group is better than the bottom group.

_


  • Rellihcs

    It’s beautiful. Most concise Lawlor masterpiece ever. ‘Nuff said.

    • A Roy

      Could add a few WRs to the “out” column…

      • Mac

        Haha, we’re getting close to that.

      • A_T_G

        With the way DGB runs routes, when he gets run out of town he will end up lost under the Ben Franklin Bridge for weeks.

  • Tumtum

    #analysis

  • Ben

    What no love for DT Elijah Qualls?

    • A_T_G

      Or the UDFAs.

  • Donald Kalinowski

    Still missing a starting RB, 2 starting CBs, and a replacement for Kendricks. I’m not sure if Patrick Robinson is an improvement over Nolan Carroll.

    • Sb2bowl

      Mills is a starting CB; Douglas, Robinson, and whatever is left on the scrap pile will fight for the other spot.

      Sproles/Smallwood will share RB duties initially. Pumphrey will be added to the mix. RB by committee is the trend now.

      Kendricks played 26% of the snaps last year. That’s about how often we were in our 4-3 base. The league is now playing their nickel defense rougly 70% of the time.

      You can’t turn over every stone in a single off season. They identified what they wanted to correct (based on team values and philosophies) and they set about fixing their deficiencies. Just because we say “Oh, we need a WIL to replace Kendricks” – doesn’t mean that they feel the same way. Maybe he stays, maybe they put in Goode or another similar level player to cover the rare times we need 3 LB’s on the field.

      • truehaynes

        Mills shouldn’t start for a cfl team

    • Stephen E.

      I’ll ignore the rest of the silliness, and point out that we don’t need to replace Kendricks until we no longer have Kendricks. He’s still an Eagle.

    • wee2424

      We can’t replace Kendricks because he is still here. It appears as though the team looks as Gerry as his EVENTUAL replacement. At least that is what they are projecting.

  • ChoTime

    Going for the minimalism trend, eh Tommy!

    • mtn_green

      Maybe Kempski wrote it for him.

      • Dragon_Eagle

        Kempski would not have forgotten the hashtag – #analysis.

  • Koy: The Legend of Neckbeard

    When Chip gave someone a nickname, he was hanging around a bit longer.

    When Tommy forgets to list a late round pick in a piece, Qualls is screwed.

  • Ben

    While I agree that we are a better team on paper than we were last season, a lot of our success will rest on the shoulders of Wentz.

    He now has a top tier group of WR’s and a better offensive line grouping from a depth standpoint. If the WR’s and O line play well this season, then we have a real chance to win the division.

    Without having caught one pass, I have to believe that this group of WR’s is a HUGE upgrade from last season and it’s not even close.

    Getting Lane Johnson back hopefully healthy and PED free for 16 games is probably the biggest upgrade on the team IMO.
    This man can open big holes when dialed in and we will thrive or struggle depending on how well he plays individually.

    I think the Eagles also have an underrated group of RB’s who are considered smaller in stature but have been productive when called upon.

    On the other side of the ball, the Eagles have an improved D line which in theory should provide an upgraded pass rush.Will they be able to stop the run is a question that needs answering.

    I think the improved pass rush will help mask our lack of talent at corner, and that’s IF they can get to the QB early and often.

    As mentioned above, corner is a huge hole, unless someone steps up.
    I’m talking to you Grimes, Smith (CJ) and Mills as well.

    If we can get to ten wins then I would say the off season was a huge success.
    Winning the division would be icing on the cake.

    • xmbk

      Wentz is obviously the most important piece, but overall the team is much better positioned this year than last. And last year they outscored the opposition.

    • ChoTime

      You know that sometimes players are worse after they’re PED-free. Just saying.

      • Media Mike

        Merriman?

    • Media Mike

      “lot of our success will rest on the shoulders of Wentz”

      At this time last year he was the #3 on the depth chart and getting almost none of the reps of value in any practice.

      He’s now started 16 games in the NFL and will spend a full off-season and pre-season as the #1 before heading into next year.

      You couldn’t find a guy better set up for a big jump for year 2.

  • FairOaks

    Most of the hope that we are better is riding on the draft picks, which is never a given. Backup QB looks to be better, but we are hoping that will have no on-field impact either. Jones, for 2017, is likely not going to be much help though hopefully has a huge impact many years thereafter.

    Jeffery is the clear upgrade — but on the other hand, a previous one of these lists had Agholor on the “in”, and Maclin on the “out”, and we were hoping that was a wash. Oops. If this list had Maclin on the out instead… much more even. You can argue Logan for Jernigan either way. If the draft picks pan out, then yes we got better. If not… we could be staring at a lot of holes for 2018, as Jeffery and Jernigan and Matthews are all in the last year of their deals and we could have to spend big to replace them.

    • xmbk

      I think you have some real logic stretches in there. Mac wasn’t on the team last year, WR is a huge upgrade. DE is an upgrade even without the solid first round pick, but likely a big upgrade. You can argue that not all rookies will make much of a contribution, but arguing that none of them will is pretty extreme.

      That’s two significant upgrades at important positions, and no realistic argument that a position got worse. Tommy’s making a solid point here.

      • eaglefansocal-go Joe D

        Totally agree, they are much better at several positions and only the running back spot may be argued as worse (though I really like Pumphrey). That and at least 3 or more draft choices that will contribute as starters or at least rotational guys this year.

      • ChoTime

        How is DE better this year without counting on the rookie to improve upon the guy who once got 11 sacks in a year?

        • CrackSammich

          Chris Long, his replacement, once had 13 sacks in a year.

          That matters about as much as Barwin’s 11, but the point remains.

          • Bert’s Bells

            The new back up’s uncle would have made state champions if the coach only put him in in the fourth quarter.

          • CrackSammich
        • Rellihcs

          Long>Barwin in this system.

          • ChoTime

            that’s pushing it IMO 🙂

          • Rellihcs

            You think Barwin played well for the Eagles last year?

          • ChoTime

            How did Long play for the Eagles last year?

        • xmbk

          He didn’t get 11 under this system. I love Barwin, but Long should fit the system better. And Barnett would have to be a total bust in order to make no contribution. He is far more likely to make a solid contribution than no contribution. I don’t agree that you can ignore all the rookies, though clearly some of them will be little to no help.

        • Mac

          How bout career sacks?
          Long 58.5
          Barwin 50.5

          counter: Barwin has played one less year and had one year that ended in game 1 with an ankle injury vs. the Colts.

          By the numbers:
          Long mean: 6.5 median: 5 mode: (tie) 8.5 and 4
          Barw mean: 7.2 median: 5 mode: 5

          In all three cases, the mode represents 2 years with that sack total. I eliminated Barwin’s non playing season. If you add that 0 to his mean calculation then his mean is 6.3.

          Career high water mark:
          Long yr 2011: 13
          Barwin yr 2014: 14.5

          Conclusion: they are virtually the same player. Barwin’s best years of production came in the 3-4 defensive scheme which allow for more creative sack opportunities, while Long’s career path has been as a hand in the dirt DE.

          Long is cheaper on payroll and has more experience at DE… while otherwise basically being the same guy (on the field).

          • ChoTime

            Well done, Mac, I appreciate the thorough analysis!

          • Mac

            Thanks, it’s fun doing that kind of thing every now and then.

      • kajomo

        I agree overall, but I think it’s clear RB got worse. Matthews was the most efffective RB on this team last year when healthy. Sproles is also a year older. Smallwood has not proven he can stay healthy. While I kind of like Pumphrey, he is small for most high school RBs.

        • daveH

          Mathews (RB. Cant remember if 1 or 2 Ts) was a pure bust as an eagle … once you have to write “..when healthy” ya lost me .. because when he rarely was healthy he fumbled .. we relied on him but we got F’d

        • xmbk

          Kind of agree, though I would gladly take Pumphrey on any HS team I coached. 😉

      • FairOaks

        If we had signed Mac, he probably would be a free agent about now — that what I was trying to get at. But yes, given that we didn’t, WR should be a huge upgrade from last year. And having Lane Johnson for a full season should hopefully mean the OL is overall a lot better, meaning the offense has a fighting chance.

        On the other hand, a healthy Ryan Mathews is likely better than any RB we have on the team right now (with Pumphrey being a major wildcard there). And while Carroll and McKelvin weren’t great, they were likely better than any currently on the roster save possibly Rasul Douglas. I’m not at all convinced those positions are better, and are quite possibly worse. Hopefully the WR upgrade is enough to overcome all that.

        DE an upgrade outside Barnett? I guess if Long is better than Barwin, but not sure that’s a guarantee. Otherwise that position is mostly the same, or hoping for Curry to rebound. I’m sure Barnett will be a significant help, but sometimes rookies take a bit of time to figure things out.

        I think we shored up OL quite a bit, so we can withstand some adversity there better than last year. And last year’s team was pretty good when they had decent OL play, even with the atrocious WR corps, which should be drastically better. So yes, the offense really should be better, especially if Wentz takes another step. The defense, I’m not as convinced about.

  • Ray888

    Even if top group is only the same as bottom group, they are more scheme specific and younger. That should bode well for the coming year & into the future.

  • John Down

    You left out 5th round pick Nate Gerry, LB, as an “add”

    • ChoTime

      I think he’s only putting in people he thinks will be an upgrade.

      • Julescat

        Nick Foles?
        Matt McGloin?

        I’m not even sure they are an upgrade over Chase Daniel

        • meteorologist

          Why would we cut Daniel to downgrade from him?

        • Bert’s Bells

          Foles + 2nd = Bradford
          Bradford = 1st + 4th

          Therefore Foles = 1st + 4th (-2nd)

          1st + 4th (-2nd) > Daniel

          Foles > Daniel

          • teltschikfakeout88

            LOL…

    • CrackSammich

      Missing a bunch of back-of-the-roster guys like Barner leaving, too. It’s omitted for clarity of making his point.

    • Media Mike

      Good catch / bad draft pick.

  • CrackSammich

    God dammit, this offseason was going if not well, then at least uneventfully. Graham is planning a hold out for a new contract.

    • Nailed It!

      *In highschool girl voice* DRAMAAAAAAAA

    • Rellihcs

      Only per 50% of the reports.

    • Fufina

      Reports of Brandon Graham contract dispute are unsubstantiated. Am told he's with his family in Detroit and eager for the season to start— Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora) May 10, 2017

      Jason La Canfora seems to be Howie’s go to national media guy, so i think the Eagles are telling him this. Now it could be the Eagles have not been officially told yet or are trying to downplay this while they work out something to molify Graham.

      • Nailed It!

        BG retweeted Jason on twitter so there’s that too.

        • Tumtum

          Good to hear!

      • Tumtum

        SMH. Good luck with that BG.

    • BobSmith77

      Makes sense. Coming off a likely career year and presents his best leverage to rework his deal & get a bigger payday and more guaranteed money.

      I almost never side with the owners in these types of disputes since I completely understand why NFL players do this. Fans, especially young ones under 30, don’t remember this as a common occurrence or the NFL labor strife in the 70s and 80s.

    • Sean Stott

      If there’s one football player who is a really decent human being, he’s Brandon Graham. No way he acts like a baby over this. If he does bring it up though the Eagles should absolutely play ball with him, he’s earned it. This probably wouldn’t be as big of an issue if they didn’t pay Curry more than Graham. That’s the real issue IMO.

      • Jernst

        If it’s already out in the media that likely means his agent brought it up privately with the FO and they’ve already told him to go pound sand. Hence the public posturing of a hold out to force the issue by Grahams camp.

    • Media Mike

      He can’t do squat other than stay away from meaningless voluntary thing or face big fines as a result. The new CBA is really good for taking care of this type of BS.

  • Dan in Philly

    Please analyze division rivals similarly.

    • ChoTime

      Or any other team that drafted any players. 🙂

      • meteorologist

        We didn’t lose much in FA… Other teams did

  • Christopher Backhaus

    hahahaha best analysis ever!

  • BobSmith77

    I would add Mathews to the ‘Out’ group too even though he is still technically on the roster.

    I’d agree but there are a couple of caveats with the biggest one being Jones.

  • Gary Barnes

    Eric Rowe went out as well….and then won a SB

    • Bert’s Bells

      Eric Rowe carried that team to the title.

      • daveH

        He had some help from pat cheung, dion lewis and

        • Insomniac

          and the ghost of Bradley Fletcher

          • daveH

            TGoBF ??

  • johhnyblaze

    Eagles cut wr Rasheed Bailey

    • Ben

      Boooo!!!! sniff…..sniff okay um better now.
      Who ?
      I know Rasheed “the fan favorite” Bailey, but since we are now carrying 3000 receivers, I am okay with it.

  • Media Mike

    “RB Ryan Mathews is going to be cut when he’s healthy enough to pass a physical.”

    Can we find a doctor to pass this loser already? The guy who cleared Case Keenum to return to the game after he almost died has to be able to clear Mathews.

    • BobSmith77

      You are blunt bordering on crass at times but also make me laugh too.

      • Media Mike

        I just find the endless waiting to get Mathews cut to be a really dumb quirk.

        • Jernst

          Well dumb for you, dumb for the Eagles but really nice financially for Mathews, not to mention the free gym membership at the exclusive multimillion dollar NovaCare complex and the top end rehab and physical therapy he’s entitled to for free while a member of the team.

          • Media Mike

            tick tock Ryan; get out.

  • To be perfectly optimistic, the Eagles get an A in the draft. Each player represents a position of need as they replace either a current player or a former player from last year. Joe Douglas was looking for productive playmakers and replacements as he drafted:
    1. The next Trent Cole, a 260-lb DE who broke Reggie White’s sack record at Tennessee: Derek Barnett replacing Connor Barwin
    2. The next Troy Vincent, who was the top rated CB in the draft: Sidney Jones replacing Leodis McKelvin
    3. The next Asante Samuel, who led the nation with 8 interceptions: Rasul Douglas replacing Nolan Carroll. (The Eagles swapped their 3rd-round pick with the Ravens to also acquire DT Tim Jernigan.)
    4. The next Cris Carter, a 6’4” 210-lb TD-machine who averaged 20.6 yds/rec and a TD/4-recs: Mack Hollins eventually replacing Dorial Green-Beckham
    5. The next Darren Sproles, a RB who broke Marshall Faulk’s rushing record at San Diego State: Donnell Pumphrey eventually replacing Darren Sproles.
    6. The next Desean Jackson, a 6’0” WR who averaged 22 yds/rec and returns kicks: Shelton Gibson eventually replacing Nelson Agholor and also Josh Huff on kickoffs
    7. The next Seth Joyner, a chiseled 6’2” LB-DB: Nathan Gerry eventually replacing Michael Kendrix
    8. The next Beau Allen (while Beau is injured), a run-stopping DT: Elijah Qualls replacing Benny Logan

    These playmakers will be fun to watch! I’m looking forward to the Mack & Zach Attack on 1st and goal to go, with 6’4” Mack Hollins & 6’5 Zach Ertz on the left, and 6’3 Alshon Jeffrey & 6’3 Jordan Matthews on the right (Carson Wentz rolls left behind 6’4 Brent Celek & 6’4 Jason Peters and scores easily).

    • Media Mike

      I dig it on the optimism level with most of these guys, but………..

      Trent Cole was a 5th round pick. I need more than 80 sacks in 10 years from a premium pick at 14.

      PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not compare anybody to Seth Joyner. Especially Gerry.

      • unhinged

        I’m a big fan of Cole, have been, and we could do worse than get that kind of production from the new guy, but I do hope that there is a bookend that can permit the new guy to avoid burnout/fatigue in the latter quarter of the season. Our mediocrity on the DL throughout most of Cole’s time in Philly was both a carrot and a stick for the Cincinnati standout. He was by contrast the best of our DL, and he was targeted to considerable effect. If Barnett can develop and excel as part of a very formidable DL, I would bet his numbers are more to your liking.

        • Media Mike

          I’m a huge fan of Cole as well, but if he was a first rounder I’d want more career production out of him. Amazing DE1.5 type for a long time.

      • OK, let’s say that Barnett is the next Clyde Simmons (121.5 sacks in 15 years).
        Then let’s say that Gerry is the next William Thomas.

        • Media Mike

          Are we taking Clyde’s Philly years only? And I’m actually good with Barnett as Hugh Douglass (averaged 10+ season with a lost year due to injury included).

          And no chance you’re getting me to do anything complimentary on Gerry. Willy T is also an all time great Eagle.

          • laeagle

            “Gerry is the next Kenjon Barner, but at LB”

          • Media Mike

            Only if he undeservedly makes the 53. That was a miserable and foolish reach of a pick when there were multiple better players at that position (and a few others on the board.). It is almost as bad as the Blake Countess pick last year.

            Gerry only gets singled out for the Barner treatment if they keep him on the 53 over better players.

        • Jernst

          Why do all these guys have to be the next anything? They’re all their own players that will play their own games.

          • I agree. I failed to mention that each player is elite in his own right. For a DT, Barnett has elite hands and balance. Jones has no weakness in his game (but he needs to add weight). At 6’2, Douglas has elite size for a CB. At 6’4, Hollins has elite size for a gunner on special teams. As a WR and KR, Gibson has elite speed. Gerry’s chiseled frame makes him an elite wrecking ball at LB. Qualls has elite athleticism for his size – 315 lbs. Enjoy the awesomeness of each player.

      • Anders

        Tom Brady has 5 super bowls, so I need more from wentz

        • Media Mike

          Technically I need 7 from the franchise to shut up Pittsburgh, New England, and Dallas all at once.

          And Tom Brady is a rare once in a lifetime player in the 6th round.

          Trent Cole was hardly that.

          • Anders

            Getting 80 career sacks out of the 5th round happens once every decade?

        • ChoTime

          Tom Brady was drafted in the sixth round and has 5 Superbowls. Since Wentz was drafted 2nd overall, he should have, what, at least 25?

          • Ark87

            When the next regime trades him to New England for a 3rd round pick, definitely.

      • D3FB

        Trent Cole is 43rd all time in sacks. That’s a hell of an outcome for the 14th overall pick.

        • Anders

          I think people do not realize how few sacks good pass rushers really get over a career

        • ChoTime

          It’s a hell of an outcome for pick 14!

        • teltschikfakeout88

          logical posts don’t work on philly fans…Most of us would say that T. Cole was a very good player and in a redraft should have been a first rounder…and so of Barnett approaches that…that would be very good….

        • Media Mike

          That’s an interesting bit of context on Cole. I think where I find myself skewed on DE play is (taking Reggie White out of it) We had some damn good seasons out of Clyde Simmons, William Fuller, and Hugh Douglas that were a whole lot more dynamic than many of Cole’s.

    • Tumtum

      If all those nexts work out this is the best draft in the history of drafts.

    • BobSmith77

      Was this written by someone who is in the Eagles’ marketing department or Dave Spadaro?

      • At first, I was disappointed in all of the picks, except for the Barnett pick. But then I saw the play-making potential of each player that Joe Douglas was talking about. As you can tell, I’ve totally bought in to Joe’s thinking. Play-making and production are more important than Combine measurements. I believe that Rasul Douglas and Jalen Mills will play better than Leodis McKelvin (2 interceptions) and Nolan Carroll (1 interception) did last year. If Sidney Jones plays in the second half of the season: Wow!

      • Jason

        The next Dave Spadaro, 3rd & 1!

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  • Media Mike

    https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/862463463716790272

    Jordan Matthews for a 3rd; I’m down.

    • Insomniac

      Get it done Howie.

      • Media Mike

        And I really like Matthews, but if somebody wants to give me a 3rd rounder for a guy who isn’t a guarantee to be here beyond this season; I’m taking it.

        • Corry

          I also like Matthews (especially now that he isn’t WR1), but if someone ponies up a 3rd round choice, I’ll personally help pack his stuff.

          • Media Mike

            And I like him a lot more at his current salary than an $8 mil / year AAV deal.

          • Jernst

            Yep…paying guys like Matthews $8-10M per year is how you build a shitty team. The trick to building a good roster is that all your top salaried players have to be actual difference makers. You end a mediocre team when you have a bunch of guys making $8-10M a year that are average players that don’t win you games. And, while I like Matthews, he’s an average player that doesn’t win you games and his production and effect on the game can be replaced for a hell of a lot cheaper.

          • Fufina

            That is simply not true in the NFL. In fact if you look at most elite teams they have very few players on top of the market deals. The NFL is a match up league and you need to have solid options at every position, otherwise the other team can exploit that weakness. If your WR 2 sucks (look at the Cooper 2015), then they can put their CB2 on him 1v1 and just roll coverage to bracket your better weapons.

          • Jernst

            I think you must have misunderstood me. Unless your position is that good teams routinely pay average players elite, top of the market salaries. If that’s the case then I couldn’t possibly disagree more.

          • A_T_G

            That’s good; he would likely drop most of the really critical stuff.

          • Dude

            They don’t make a salve for that.

    • A_T_G

      Not so fast…the Titans might want to get in on the bidding…
      https://twitter.com/pfrumors/status/862475400668119041

      • Media Mike

        He and Tretola need to be gone for a long time.

    • Fufina

      I am not. Matthews is a far better player than the expected return of a 3rd round pick, and has significant upside from what he has already shown in the league. He is a a precision route runner with great size, but to exploit that you need excellent chemistry with your QB. Like Ertz, Matthews has never had time to develop properly with a long term QB, moving from Foles, to Bradford to Wentz, in the latter 2 cases having very limited throwing time with both during the off season. Not only that but having a far better supporting cast should help open up the field for him since safeties will actually need to respect our outside WR.

      Add in the fact that he is by far the 2nd best WR on our roster currently. Jeffery is a great addition, but Smith was awful last year (Eagles gave him just $500k in guarantees for a reason), and the rest of the options are either busts or 3rd day rookies. If Jeffery gets suspended or injured the remaining WR group without Matthews is not just the worst in the league – it is somehow significantly worse than what we put out last year.

      Are some drops frustrating? OFC. But lets put this in context he dropped 3 more passes than league average last year, and improving catch rates is something we have seen WR’s do during their careers (see TO) if they are willing to apply themselves, and Matthews does work hard at his game.

      • Media Mike

        He’s not signed beyond this year. I don’t like playing the comp pick game. I need surety with that situation and a 3rd round pick gives me that. I don’t feel comfortable with him in the 5 year / $40 million range if we sign him again.

        I very much appreciate the production Matthews gives this team, but I’d always rather trade a guy for a good draft pick than lose him for the spec of rarely awarded (to us) comp pick a full year later.

        • Fufina

          With the current salary cap $8m per year is less than 5% of the Salary cap, and right in line with what you pay a no.2 WR with the cap in its current form. We have a young QB so can afford to spend a more on our WR core.

          Having said that if Smith has a great year and rookies show promise then you probably let Matthews walk, but since it is near certain we will be in the comp pick game next year, he will probably net you a 4th then anyways. The opportunity cost of moving from a 2018 3rd to a late 2019 4th, is well worth the potential upsides and risk mitigation. Imagine if Jeffery walks next year, and we had traded Matthews. We have absolutely nothing at WR except a few late round gambles.

          • A_T_G

            I don’t mind using Matthews this year, but for the sake of discussion, are you sure about that opportunity cost? This conversation about a third rounder was the first time I was willing to part with him.

            Bring you comparison to the present. If we had traded our third rounder this year for a pick 50 slots lower and a year later and a one year rental on a middle of the pack slot receiver, would you have been pleased? I would not have been. You are basically supporting a trade like we did for Jurnigan, except moving twice as far and pushing the pick to the following year.

            If Matthews is in the long term plans that is one thing. If taking a comp pick is the plan, take the third and run.

          • Fufina

            I was a huge fan of the Jernigan trade, It bridged a big roster need and depending on how things work out you can make an assessment next off season on how you want to construct the roster and if you want to pay the player big $$ having already seen how he works on the Eagles, hugely reducing the risks that are there in free agency. And worst case we let him walk and get some kind of comp pick.

            I am higher on Matthews than most Eagles fans at this point, but regardless i think there is good value to keeping him this year to improve 2017 team and you can evaluate his place – and others (since to keep him you are probably cutting guys) having more information to make the decision. The cost of ‘buying’ that information and improved 2017 squad, is swaping a 2018 3rd (85th?) for a 2019 late 4th (~140th). I think that is worthwhile value.

            All of this is predicated on the Ravens offering a 3rd round pick for Matthews, which if you think is worth it for the Eagles is definitely not worth it for the Ravens who will probably not be getting comp picks next off season looking at their upcoming free agents.

          • A_T_G

            No, I like the Jernigan trade too. Had the pick we received been a year later, though, it would have been tougher to swallow. And I certainly agree that we din’t want to assume everything is fixed just because we brought in bodies.

            And you are right, the third rounder is hypothetical at this point. No less so than the comp pick, though. How confident are we that Howie is going to sit on his hands next off season and be satisfied collecting 2019 comp picks?

            So if he is going, this was the first offer I heard mentioned that would make me satisfied with letting him go a year earlier.

          • Wrongthink

            Matthews would be a hell of a slot receiver with time to work with Wentz and a decent outside threat. And they guy really does work hard.

          • Rellihcs

            We can’t afford to spend that on a WR core when we will need to resign Alshon, have so much invested in the DL, will need to lock up Hicks soon, have $ invested in safety, TE, OL, etc…

          • Mac

            My problem with this line of thinking is that I don’t see a substantial difference between Jordan Matthews and Paul Turner.

            Yes, they are different players… Matthew’s has more “big play potential” vs. Turner’s “sure handed 3rd down conversion.”

            If you really want the “big play potential” with “big time ball dropping issues” he’s also already on the team and named Agholor.

          • ChoTime

            Hmm… I am a member of the Church of Turnerrzzz, but let’s be real: Turner is a fringe NFL player and JM averaged 800 yards/season. As much as I am not a fan of JM, Turner has not shown himself to be on the nearly the same level.

            Yet. Once he breaks out, he’ll dominate I’m sure.

          • Mac

            I think my feeling is that a team should be competent enough with outside WRs that a 600ish yrd Jason Avant clutch hands guy is good enough for the slot.

            I’d wager the contract difference between that guy and what Matthews thinks he is worth is a fairly wide margin.

      • Rellihcs

        It’s not whether Matthews is the better player then expected return on investment for the 3rd round pick (how in hell can you quantify that anyway…).

        It’s whether a 3rd round pick is better than nothing when Matthews goes to another team next year. And how can you possibly say that nothing is better than a 3rd.

        Westbrook and Hicks come to mind… but of course there’s many misses.

        • teltschikfakeout88

          You have to take into account FA…letting him walk is added financial and roster flexibility to go into FA and possibly address a need…If we let him walk its because we think we can get his contributions from elsewhere for cheaper…also the potential for a comp pick in 2019 is not nothing…but I still like bird in hand and if the team knows that they aren’t going to resign him..get that 3rd rounder if you have a desperate team….

          • Rellihcs

            Good points.

            This is why – all fan discussions aside – I really am glad we have Howie (haters hate away, whatever, I ignore you) when it comes to making value based decisions.

          • Media Mike

            Agreed. And you know I love myself some value!

        • Insomniac

          A 3rd + more cap space to extend Jernigan and Alshon = no brainer. We already have plenty of slot WR options that could put up 500-800 yards like Matthews will.

          • Rellihcs

            Agreed wholeheartedly.

      • Sean Stott

        I don’t want Jordan Matthews on the team. I don’t want someone who can’t be trusted in a clutch situation. No killer instinct, not a born winner. No thanks.

  • Jernst

    That top group is much much much better than the bottom group.

    • Media Mike

      When you boil it down, that is 100% true and a real reason for some optimism this year. We all know there are still flaws, but I’m happy with the general direction for sure.

      • myartz04

        What’s sad is as bad as our receivers were last year, 2 rookies who have never played a snap in the NFL are probably already better players than DGB and Agholar.

      • bsuperfi

        Yeah, this is a long term resource allocation issue. There’s no reason to overpay or give up draft picks when you’re building in so many places at once. Take the best assets available at as low a price as you can. Splurge where needed to fill out the final product.

        The only reason I could see for a splurge now is to make sure wentz has the right pieces in place for his own development. We’ll see how RB works out, but I’d argue he has enough to be ok right now given the way the position works. RB clearly isn’t close to ideal right now, but it might be just good enough, particularly given the opportunity cost.

  • eagleyankfan

    Fun list. Only one thorn in my side about this — QB3 — never liked 3 qb’s on a roster. It’s like having a 3rd nipple – useless.

    • Sb2bowl

      My third nipple is NOT useless. When the other 2 get tired, I always have a spare.
      Not a great way to start a Thursday

    • Rellihcs

      That lady in Mallrats begs to differ.

    • Bert’s Bells

      Except, of course, for all those stupid things like practicing and drills. Useless.

      • eagleyankfan

        camp body != 3rd QB on roster…

        • Bert’s Bells

          Yeah, nobody practices during the season.

          • eagleyankfan

            that’s why god invented the practice squad…season starts max 6 wr’s max 4 rb’s(wonder how many teams carry that many?) — you really need 3 qb’s to practice? I tend to agree with the post above – no need unless you have that rookie to groom…

    • A_T_G

      Really though, aside from providing a place to put a ring which I never took advantage of, my first two are also useless… kind of like the other past Eagles QBs.

    • bsuperfi

      Not to mention that I don’t have to buy milk at the supermarket for my kids anymore.

    • Ark87

      I tend to agree, Even the Patriots don’t win if their 3rd QB is on the field, only time it makes sense is if he’s young guy you’re basically red shirting hoping you can turn him into a commodity next year (a much cheaper #2 QB or trade bait). Matt McGloin is definitely not that

    • teltschikfakeout88

      who would hold the clip board…

      • Rellihcs

        Foles has 2 hands.

    • A Roy

      I’m expecting McGloin to be gone by the end of pre-season.

    • Fufina

      If you have a young QB from 3-5th round then you probably need to keep him on your 53, but don’t want him as your main backup yet. In that scenario then having 3 QB’s makes sense.

      Next year i would expect the Eagles to draft a QB in the mid/late rounds to be a cheap backup when you are paying Wentz franchise money.

    • laeagle

      Tell that to AJ Feeley!

  • Nailed It!

    So in Goodell’s NFL women beaters are more than welcome but the peaceful marijuana smoker is not.

    • Rellihcs

      Also, 1+1=2.

      • Nailed It!

        I was told there would be no math.

        • Rellihcs

          Who told you that? Corrupt lying Goodell?

          • Julescat

            worst commissioner evah

        • RogerPodacter

          i didn’t go to college for 3 years and get a degree (?) in communications so that i could do maths!

      • eagleyankfan

        I think in CORE math, that’s wrong….

    • Media Mike

      Lets not forget rapists. Big Ben and Jameis Winston are still playing.

  • A_T_G

    Just Say No to Daryl Washington, right?
    https://twitter.com/MattChastain_/status/862721317203841025

    • Rellihcs

      Right. We don’t need a blitzing ILB.

    • Tumtum

      Is that what happened to him… always loved the way he played. Haven’t seen enough about him to know if I would give him a shot.

    • Insomniac

      He hasn’t played since 2013, I would bring him in for camp and see what happens.

    • ChoTime

      Yeah… although I remember him chasing down Vick once or twice.

      • meteorologist

        So annoying. I had forgotten those memories

    • Mac

      We’re already crowed at the blitzing ILB position with just one player who has hamstring issues and rarely sees the field, even when healthy.

    • Media Mike

      I’m a “yes” on Washington if he’ll sign for vet minimum.

      And it allows operation Seth Joyner to slide Hicks over to WIL in the base D where he can make more plays.

      • sonofdman

        Hicks is really really good at MLB and makes plenty of plays already. He also seems to be good at doing the mental stuff that MLBs do, but that is less quantifiable. Also, one of his biggest strengths is in coverage and his responsibilities would change at WIL. I don’t understand this desire to move him to a different position that he has never played before. He is good at MLB, why mess with it?

  • Nailed It!

    I can feel the Barnett not signing think pieces that are being conceived in the beat writers heads. I can feel it in my plumbs.

    • Media Mike

      Les already told people to calm down because it’s May.

  • BobSmith77

    Don’t get the incredibly negative fan reaction to Graham skipping voluntary OTAs and possibly more.

    Completely understand why Graham wants to get a bit more cash while he can. He knows the Eagles drafted Barnett and are stuck with a huge, overpaid stiff (Curry) for at least the next 2 years.

    He and his agent rightfully expect that Graham’s tenure here might not be that much longer. Never has gotten that huge extension & wants to use what leverage he can coming off a likely career year to get some more guaranteed cash.

    • A_T_G

      I wasn’t reading much today, has it been confirmed that is why he is missing?

      • BobSmith77

        Confirmed no but pretty likely I bet. Signed through 2018 with a $7.5M cap hit each season.

        If they cut him next year, they only have a $1M cap hit.

        • laeagle

          So wait, there’s a tweet saying it was not true, and Graham himself retweeted that, but you’re not buying it, because “pretty likely”?

          This is a complete non story. Maybe he will hold out, but he’s not doing it now. Let’s all maybe conserve our energy until something actually happens.

          • BobSmith77

            I agree it is largely a nonstory but Graham (and his agent) likely backtracked a bit today after Roseman basically called their bluff.

            Real question is does he hold out in training camp and really accrue the fines that come with it.

            Matt

          • Media Mike

            “Real question is does he hold out in training camp and really accrue the fines that come with it.”

            I doubt he does.

      • Rellihcs

        The only thing that was confirmed today about this was that any confirmation was far from confirmatory.

        • daveH

          Mr ifnoc

    • Media Mike

      If he wants to skip the voluntary stuff, more power to him. The fines in place for skipping the mandatory stuff are such a deterrent, I doubt he takes it that far.

  • BobSmith77

    “The Oakland Raiders have distributed proceeds from a $1.25 million settlement to nearly 100 women who have worked as cheerleaders for the team. The settlement arose from a class-action challenge over working conditions and pay filed by two former cheerleaders.

    The suit alleged that from 2010-14, the Raiders failed to pay minimum wage,
    failed to pay overtime, and failed to reimburse cheerleaders for
    incurred expenses. Women who performed as Raiderettes for more than one
    season will receive more than $20,000 from the settlement. The team has
    since reworked its pay structure.”

    https://sports.yahoo.com/news/oakland-raiders-settle-cheerleaders-pay-concerns-132742952.html

    Yet another NFL team that was sued by their cheerleaders for violating numerous labor laws and losses.

    Seems like there have been a number of lawsuits the past few years by cheerleaders.

    • RobNE

      The fact that billionaires do this is embarrassing.

      • BobSmith77

        Yeah although sadly I bet most fans are indifferent or don’t care.

        • Rellihcs

          Yeah, thanks for sharing. This is pathetic. Either pay them handsomely and treat them right (heck, they’re already objectified), or don’t have them.

          • Wrongthink

            Many women actually enjoy being objectified.

          • daveH

            What % ?

          • Wrongthink

            100 under the right circumstances. I’d say these cheerleaders are probably ok with it, not that that excuses them getting ripped off.

          • Tumtum

            73.2

          • daveH

            What % of this wwere abused?

          • Tumtum

            87.4

          • daveH

            Precisely .. so do they really ‘enjoy’ ?

          • Tumtum

            I see what you mean…

      • unhinged

        When you consider the economic divide in this declining empire, it is a well-ingrained routine.

      • Tumtum

        Saddest part is that this goes on in every industry where people are grossly under paid given their value to their company. This just happens to be a group of workers that get noticed.

  • A_T_G
  • myartz04

    Driving out to Philly tomorrow from Ohio for the Metallica concert…anyone else going? Side question, has anyone else gone to a fairly large concert at the Linc? Would like to know if the field seats actually have seats…

    • ChoTime

      Metallica was pretty much dead to me after the Black Album. Heh… but have a good time, man 🙂

  • Insomniac
  • ColorSgt

    Great point Tommy. People get so bogged down about types of players… whether its fitting the scheme, or measurables, etc. Key to winning in the NFL is getting the most talented players possible under the cap and playing to their strengths. Anytime the incoming group of players is better than the outgoing group, its a good off-season.