Ertz > Harbor

Posted: January 16th, 2014 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 81 Comments »

Zach Ertz is better than Clay Harbor, in case you were wondering.

Ertz as a rookie – 16 games … 36-469-4 … 13.0 yards per catch … 8 catches of 20 or more yards

Harbor as an Eagle – 39 games … 47-421-4 … 9 yards per catch … 3 catches of 20 or more yards

Harbor was the superior blocker, but Ertz can catch him in that area. He’ll get bigger and stronger with a full year in the Eagles strength program. Ertz improved as a blocker from the beginning of the year to the end.

The thing that stood out to me is that Ertz made some tough catches. He was more than just a guy who got open and caught the ball. He became a good Red Zone target. The one catch he made at the back of the end zone and in the corner was really impressive. That showed hands, body control and good footwork. Ertz could end up being the Eagles best TE since the days of Keith Jackson.

It will be interesting to see how he develops. Harbor flashed good athletic ability, but never could show the ability to be a consistently good player. Ertz has already done that. The question now is just how good he can be.


81 Comments on “Ertz > Harbor”

  1. 1 shah8 said at 2:12 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    First, Harbor was never in this system.

    Second, his role was far more focused on being a blocker, and “forget about me” receiver, and he continued to play that role in Jacksonville. Harbor was never an Eifert, Jermaine Gresham, Kyle Rudolph type. He’s more of a less flashy Brandon Pettigrew.

    Third, in Jacksonville, he had a career high in receptions of 24 receptions for almost 300 yards on a team with a reasonable WR corps (along with Marcedes Lewis), and a terrible QB. He did well for himself.

    Lastly, had Harbor remained, he would have alleviated what was a serious lack of depth in our WR corps, and would have been a major help during the beginning of the year.

    As for Zach Ertz, when we got him, my attitude was fundamentally about whether he was faster than Kyle Rudolph. Lots of pretty catches and big catch radiuses are very nice, but people like Kyle Rudolph are fundamentally oversold as game-breakers, in the sense of someone like Vernon Davis or Jared Cook or Jason Witten or Gronkowski or Brandon Graham. As such, I think I see the same lack of pure fuel physicality that dropped Ertz behind the likes of Eifert. There isn’t the size, agility, or the speed that might make Ertz *special*. Not that every member of the team has to be *special*, but having level-headed expectations is important in how you feel the best about your teams. Chipwagon dissing on Vinny Curry the way it did was just…sour. You can’t even claim high expectations. Vinny Curry is a moderate talent that isn’t playing within a system that fits him, and he’s caught up in the hurry up offense in exactly the same way Chip Kelly wants to catch opposing defenses, and he’s doing the best he can! Bryce Brown is a real talent with a high ceiling. It’s right and proper to be give praise or be tough on him, even as he does little Running Back Puppy stuff. Zach Ertz doesn’t really offer that much more (route running, catching) than Harbor did as a receiver, and it’s very close as to whether it’s washed by Harbor’s superior athleticism and blocking ability.

    As to what what we see out of Ertz, Cosell compared him to Witten as far as what his future could be. However, I think, like BB this year, people are going to be getting on Ertz next year as expectations raise on him being a technically sound all around TE. And he has to be a technically sound all around TE to continue having a large role in an offense, given the lack of high end physical talent. He can’t be just a small factor in blocking forever.

  2. 2 shah8 said at 2:31 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    To be a bit more clear about my issue with Rudolph–He only does well when he can beat slow LBs or find a zone to sit in, and he’s great at making contested catches. That makes him a great Red Zone target, but he never really pushes the team to the Red Zone. Thus he never dictates anything to any defense and makes things easier for other skill players on offense, and the only way he can contribute is simply catching the ball, whether the coverage is there or not. Like a Jason Avant of TEs, only he’s young.

  3. 3 shah8 said at 2:49 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Got fascinated and started reading about TEs…

    Food for thought:

    It took a couple of years for that first dude, but man o man, is Darth Al ever right.

  4. 4 theycallmerob said at 3:55 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Lastly, had Harbor remained, he would have alleviated what was a serious lack of depth in our WR corps, and would have been a major help during the beginning of the year.

    old news. tried and failed.

    Kelly even gave him a look at OLB.

    marcedes lewis is nothing more than a #1TEInNameOnly
    marcedes lewis: 11 games played, 25 rec, 47 tgts, 359yds, 14.4, 4tds
    harbor: 16 games played, 24 rec, 35 tgts, 292yds, 12.2avg, 2tds.

  5. 5 theycallmerob said at 4:00 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Ertz’s 469 yds accounted for 10.64% of Eagles passing offense (yds), and 12.5% of TDs
    Harbor- 7.78% of JAX passing yds, and the same 12.5% of TDs

    even in his career year, 4 years into the league and the pro game, < Ertz

  6. 6 anon said at 7:54 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    I’m not quit sure what Kelly didn’t see in Harbor but he got a lot of chances in TC before being cut. I agree Ertz needs to make a jump second year but i think his ceiling is higher than harbor hopefully he grows into that. Not sure i’d give him a second round grade but tbd.

  7. 7 Mitchell said at 9:37 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    I kinda feel like you are down on most of the roster. Its fine to be skeptical but too often it seems like you are discounting players. It seems like the only way you will like a player is if they are 6’6″ has a cannon arm, can run a 4.2 40, 300 lbs, etc etc. Everyone has limitations….

  8. 8 RobNE said at 9:44 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    I agree Shah8, how many players on the roster would you keep? 3 (Shady, Brown and one other?) and how would you replace the other 50 with the best player at their position in the league? that’s exaggerating of course, but you seem to think all of our players lack “ability” and none of them will make it, while I guess thinking we could replace them with all different players that are better.

    And I’m not asking you to tell me who we should have drafted in hindsight.

    You’re kind of being an Eeyore.

  9. 9 A_T_G said at 11:05 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    It wouldn’t be hard to fill the roster at all, because once the guys are cut by the Eagles they then, like Harbor, are guys with raw tools that should have been kept, so we can resign all of them.

  10. 10 anon said at 12:15 PM on January 16th, 2014:

    I genuinely like everyone on the squad but if you look at the squad, especially on defense, it’s easy to be constructively critical about what we have at every position. Under Laurie we’re going to have a team that’s way more talented on offense. I understand gripes about Ertz in the early second round but i think he’s got more potential and time to grow.

  11. 11 TommyLawlor said at 10:01 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    @shah8,,, Harbor did get a chance to play in this system. He wasn’t able to win a roster spot. The Eagles loved his athletic ability and potential, but it never translated to consistent production on the field.

    I think you focus too much on raw potential. That’s fair game for a year or two, but at a certain point potential must translate to actual production. That never happened with Harbor. I hope it does for him in t he future. Good guy. Would love to see him finally find his niche.

    History tells you that when a guy is going into his 5th year and you’re still talking about potential, you’re likely seeing a guy who will never be more than what he is. There are exceptions, but they tend to be few and far between.

  12. 12 mksp said at 10:20 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    To further this point, shah8 doesn’t even focus on raw potential (which implies some form of future production), but simply raw tools.

    I’d rather have the guy maximizing 100% of his “8 out of 10” athleticism score than the guy only getting 60% out of this 10 out of 10 athleticism because he doesn’t understand routes, leverage, scheme, etc.

  13. 13 shah8 said at 11:38 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    I am very well aware of the fact that Harbor was tried out for this system, and honestly, I do not overvalue Harbor. At the same time, Harbor is not Matthews, riding on his big brother’s name. He’s not one of the preseason heros at LB or DL who doesn’t make the roster here, or much of an impact anywhere else. When Harbor was cut, he was almost immediately picked up, and he got substantial playing time. I wouldn’t necessarily believe that Harbor is better than Ertz. I just believe that the current value of Ertz is not much more than Harbor. I also believe that cutting Harbor was a bad decision, simply due to the fact that we turned out to really need size and speed at the WR position, and even with the logjam with which Cooper occupying Harbor’s secondary niche at a higher level, we should have made far more of an effort to make a fit for him. He would have been far more useful than Damaris Johnson turned out to be, and more useful than Maehl. I can guess that impending veteran pay over cheap youngsters played a role, but…you know, I’ve never talked about “potential” with Harbor. I know he isn’t that much. But he isn’t chopped liver, either.

    Raw potential is what makes the world go round. First have the good clay, *then* you mold it. There is a lot of value in having a sharp eye for good clay, and ensuring that unusually talented people do not fall out of your grasp. However, not that talented people stay not that talented. The difference between the Eagles, Vikings, and more successful organizations, is that those orgs do a good job of finding and drafting coachable raw talent in later rounds, while the best we’ve done is Kelce and Brown in the last few years. The Vikings don’t seem to treat any late rounders with alarcity wrt coaching, even when they *know* they have something–not just with Webb. Meanwhile, Reid got fixated on try hard “high motor” people with serious physical deficiencies who dropped, and we got Brandon Graham, Jaiqauan Jarrett, Vinny Curry, Kendricks, that old fireman, etc, etc. You have to get the best talent, and you’re going to have to be patient with them. Dion Jordon was always going to start very slow, no matter where he went, and it was always going to take time before we’re sure he’s bust or not. The same with Lane Johnson.

    It’s silly to go around treating Chris Polk like he has a real chance to be the number two RB without any inkling as to understanding whether BB is not being coachable. Polk isn’t a starting caliber RB, and nobody would trust him to stay uninjured even if they thought he was. Likewise, it’s pretty silly to expect a huge amount from Ertz, given the nature of his production this last year, and his relative physical limitation compared to more dynamic TEs. That doesn’t mean I hate or dislike Ertz. It simply means I know Ertz’ place, and I root for him to do well in his role, and grow (maybe even surprise me).

  14. 14 mksp said at 10:22 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    What exactly did Jared Cook accomplish this season? And Jimmy Graham disappeared in the playoffs, which based on your Nick Foles argument, is when we learn what these players are actually made of because they’re playing “real” defenses.

  15. 15 laeagle said at 11:04 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    That’s a great argument to apply to Vick, but that would make the shah’s head explode.

  16. 16 T_S_O_P said at 2:47 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Zach Ertz, how many players first name starts with a Z and last name ends with a Z? That’s a ZZ top in most peoples book. Second, the man’s name sounds powerful, Zac (h)Ertz. You don’t have to be as edjumacated as me to see this clear and compelling evidence of the awesomeness of #86 (which is also > #82). Case closed. 🙂

  17. 17 T_S_O_P said at 2:52 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Zach Ertz, despite only having 8 letters in his name, scores 31 in Scrabble, Clay Harbor scores on 20. More compelling science guys.

  18. 18 theycallmerob said at 3:47 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Tony Gonzalez – obviously has more letters available, but scores a 34 in letter value and is most certainly not gay nozzle

    Ertz (8 total letters:31 score = 3.88 pts/letter)
    Gonzalez (12 total letter:34 score = 2.83 pts/letter)

    Just like the Eagles offense, Ertz was more efficient and made the best use of his opportunities to score.

  19. 19 Dominik said at 6:57 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    I like Ertz, but I have to say: I expect a 2nd round TE to be significantly better than a 4th round TE.

    If Ertz would play on this level for the rest of his career, he wouldn’t be worth the 2nd rounder. But I doubt it. With a full offseason he should become a very valuable player on our offense. But I won’t lie, I expect him to play on Thomas/Witten/Gates level in a few years from now. That’s what you should hope for from a 2nd round TE, imho.

    Graham and Gronk would be a very high ceiling, but besides from those two athletic freaks, Ertz hopefully becomes one of the best.

  20. 20 the midatlantic said at 9:18 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    A bit unfair to ANY second rounder (maybe even most first rounders) to expect them to be the very best in the league at their position (and historically good, in the case of Witten and Gates).

  21. 21 Dominik said at 9:55 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    I don’t expect him to be better than Thomas/Witten/Gates, I expect them to be in their region. And I clearly said you can’t expect him to be Graham or Gronk.

    So I think you are a bit unfair to my comment. 😉

    And a TE in the early 2nd round is like a QB with the first 3 or 4 picks. Look at the other standouts: Gates UDFA, Witten 3rd round, Gronk 2nd round, Graham 3rd round, Thomas 4th round. I think Chip expects great things from him, I think even Ertz expects great things from himself. There’s nothing wrong with that, imho.

  22. 22 A_T_G said at 10:26 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    On the other hand, he seems like he will be better than Brandon Pettigrew. And he was a first rounder.

    I hope he reaches the level of those guys too, but I don’t think it is fair to expect it because he is a second rounder. It is entirely possible that no one available with that pick has the long term impact of a Witten.

  23. 23 Dominik said at 10:40 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    “On the other hand, he seems like he will be better than Brandon Pettigrew. And he was a first rounder.”

    There are QBs picked with the first four picks overall who don’t pan out. It happens. But it shouldn’t be the assumption.

  24. 24 A_T_G said at 10:58 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Exactly. There are more guys that are utter busts at any position in any spot in the draft than there are memorable guys like the ones you mentioned. Neither one should be the expectation.

  25. 25 Dominik said at 11:04 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    On the other hand, don’t you expect to pick up a good player in round 2? Of course he can be a bust, but I expect a pick in the first three or four rounds to contribute. Maybe the player needs time, sure, but eventually, he should play good football.

  26. 26 A_T_G said at 11:07 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    This I absolutely agree with, but this seems a bit different than setting expectations to the level of three of the best in the league over the past couple decades.

  27. 27 laeagle said at 11:07 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    I think the point is, he is contributing, and well. We already are getting value. Of course the hope is that he improves, or even blossoms. But to expect a player at any position to be at a level of someone like Witten (hall of fame caliber) is a bit much. “You weren’t a first ballot HOF-er! BUST!!!” doesn’t sound like sanity to me.

  28. 28 Dominik said at 11:19 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    I think both of you, A_T_G and laeagle, didn’t quite understand what I meant (very possible that’s my fault).

    I expect Ertz to be in the Top 10 in the league in receiving yards, at least in a year or two. Like Thomas, Witten, Gates et al. I clearly wrote that I don’t expect Erzt to be a Graham/Gronk kind of TE. That would be clearly unfair, those two are the best in the game at the moment, and it isn’t even close.
    My point isn’t that Ertz has to be as great as Gates and Witten were in their prime. He should be as good as they are at the moment, with 33 respectively 31 years old.

  29. 29 laeagle said at 11:22 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    I think I would LIKE for him to be that, but to EXPECT that a second round pick be in the top 10, and that he’s a failure if not, is not properly evaluating draft pick success. For example, Mike Patterson was clearly not in the top 10 in his position. But he was a very solid pick in the late first round. Frankly, if Ertz can perform as well as Celek has over time, I’d be impressed.

  30. 30 Insomniac said at 11:25 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    He sure runs like those two in their 30s though. Ertz will probably never be on their level. His athleticsm will limit his niche to relying on mismatches, his hands and craftiness. He’ll be able to produce that way but he won’t put up Gronk numbers. I think 600-700 yards/5-8 TDs is fair enough to expect from Ertz in 2 years from now.

  31. 31 Dominik said at 11:51 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    “I think 600-700 yards/5-8 TDs is fair enough to expect from Ertz in 2 years from now”

    Give him 750 and he would have been near the Top 10 this year. Like I said, I would be okay with that. I don’t expect the 1200 Yards/16 TDs Graham delivered this year.

  32. 32 suthrneagle said at 12:07 PM on January 16th, 2014:

    Never say never.

  33. 33 shah8 said at 12:02 PM on January 16th, 2014:

    One note, Brandon Pettigrew and Marcedes Lewis were late first rounders. While they never reached any great heights as far as pass catching is concerned, both were drafted for being all around TEs, and not the heavy WR position. As such, both are rated well for doing the traditional TE sorta things, in particular, Marcedes Lewis. This is entirely different role than what Ertz is supposed to fill. Ertz only has to be able to block at a reasonable level of skill and catch balls.

    It’s also important to note, like Donald Brown, that if Ertz doesn’t get respectable at duties other than catching, he will never see the field enough to live up to his billing as a high draft pick.

  34. 34 anon said at 12:11 PM on January 16th, 2014:

    First you say ” you can’ expect him to be Graham or Gronk” and then you say “a TE in the early 2nd round is like a QB with the first 3 or 4 picks. Look at the other standouts:
    Gates UDFA, Witten 3rd round, Gronk 2nd round, Graham 3rd round, Thomas
    4th round” basically expecting him to be like the big boys based on draft position. I think Ertz was a reach, i don’ think it matters now he’s here, would like to see him get a little tougher/bigger.

  35. 35 Dominik said at 12:24 PM on January 16th, 2014:

    If Ertz was a reach, than we didn’t drafted well. Same thing with Frederick, the Cowboys Center. Yes, he played good, but you could have gotten him in the third. You shouldn’t celebrate a pick like that.

    I’m not sure that Ertz was a reach, though. Time will tell.

  36. 36 Sb2bowl said at 11:28 PM on January 18th, 2014:

    I’ve actually never heard someone say that (potentially) Ertz might be considered a “reach” in the draft. To be honest, with how the board was shaking out, I think he landed in a perfect spot for us (and him). Other than J.Cyp– nothing on the list really interests me (Kiko would have been an interesting pick but I’m not sure where he would have played for us).

    I’m pretty happy with the Ertz pick; Celek is getting older, Casey was an unknown, and at the time Clay was here. Investing a high 2nd round pick on a TE that has hybrid abilities and could be a main cog in our ever evolving offense just makes good (logic?) sense to me.

  37. 37 Sean said at 11:55 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    I have to disagree here. Those expectations should accompany a TE selected in the Top 15. If NFL scouts and teams thought Ertz would become a player of that caliber he wouldn’t have lasted to 35. You named two surefire hall of famers in that group.

  38. 38 suthrneagle said at 12:02 PM on January 16th, 2014:

    I think people get too caught up in what round players are drafted.
    Look at the number of Heisman winners that don`t become stars in the NFL. Sometimes players are drafted high due to teams` needs,conversely others will drop for the same reason…Succeeding
    at a high level could take years(Regie Bush?) or not at all(Ryan Leaf).
    Had Ertz gone to a team without a Celek to play behind,he could have been more productive; or maybe the pressure of being the # 1 TE would`ve been too much for him. We`ll never know…
    Personally, I think he`s gonna be a major asset for the Eagles for years to come and at the same time adding a couple of years to Celek`s career due to his reduced role.

  39. 39 Sb2bowl said at 11:34 PM on January 18th, 2014:

    “Had Ertz gone to a team without a Celek to play behind,he could have
    been more productive; or maybe the pressure of being the # 1 TE would`ve
    been too much for him.”

    Suthrn– I couldn’t agree more; it seems like our rookies found willing homes to join fresh out of college; the group of vets which were infused into our roster, coupled with the remaining (battled tested, scared, and ready for a change) vets– this turned out to be a great culture for our new guys to learn and grow. Good for them, and hopefully, good for us in return.

  40. 40 Daniel Norman Richwine said at 7:39 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    What has two thumbs and is expecting big things from Ertz next year??

  41. 41 Andy124 said at 7:41 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    This guy.

  42. 42 Mitchell said at 9:21 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    And this guy!

  43. 43 A_T_G said at 10:27 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    And that Rottweiler I saw running down the street with the Eagles collar and two hands in his mouth.

  44. 44 Andy124 said at 11:12 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Hands belonged to someone who didn’t have much faith in Ertz. Rottweiler had a very definitive way to express his disagreement.

  45. 45 A_T_G said at 11:18 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    I just hope they didn’t belong to Freddie Mitchel.

  46. 46 P_P_K said at 11:40 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    LOL. If Tommy ever needs a standup comedian, you’re the guy.

  47. 47 Ramsay said at 7:44 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Ertz up your skirtz! I yell this every time he makes a big play in the game

  48. 48 TommyLawlor said at 9:41 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    You have planted a seed in all our minds. Wonder how many people will think this when watching him in the future.

  49. 49 A_T_G said at 10:29 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Etta up your skirtz… planting a seed… we are probing some dark regions of fanhood here.

  50. 50 Sb2bowl said at 11:35 PM on January 18th, 2014:

    I feel like there should be a Joe Webb sighting now…….

  51. 51 Ramsay said at 5:43 PM on January 16th, 2014:

    It was one of my fantasy football team names too

  52. 52 Sb2bowl said at 11:36 PM on January 18th, 2014:

    Is this why Kelly is obsessed with hand size?

  53. 53 P_P_K said at 11:39 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    We yell, “Ertz hurtz!”

  54. 54 Finlay Jones said at 7:14 PM on January 16th, 2014:

    I go for “what is love? baby don’t ertz me, don’t ertz me, no more”

  55. 55 P_P_K said at 10:01 PM on January 16th, 2014:

    I’m laughing so hard it Ertz.

  56. 56 Mike Flick said at 7:46 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    The better question is whether he will be better then Chad Lewis or Brent Celek. Clay Harbor looked like he had potential, but coming as a WR from a smaller school he was a project. Jason Dunn had more big plays then Clay.

    Brent never had the speed that excited you, but makes the most of what he has. When matched up with a small DB he makes use of his size and plows + carries defenders with the ball in his hands.

    It sure seems like Ertz is a much better receiver. They did a few play reviews where they showed he understood how to create space with his route running. He also has made some very good catches. I do expect him to be more of a factor next year.

    The big question is how big of a factor. Keith Jackson changed our offense. Jimmy Graham changes the Saints offense. Tony G + Antonio Gates made their offenses go. Gronk was a TD machine. I always felt Celek + Whitten are not guys who change an offense, but are good 2nd option guys. A play breaks down, you go to the security blanket.

    That last Dallas game, it started out with Ertz against Heath which was a total mis-match. When they benched him, then Ertz was not as much of a factor. He will be special when teams are forced to put Lee on him and Ertz still gets his.

    Here is where Ertz sits now. He has proven to be a serviceable TE. He can find holes in the zone, get back to the QB when a play breaks down, run good routes and beat below defenders one on one consistently.

    He has the potential to make a big jump from year 1 to 2 and become a better blocker setting the edge, and improve as a WR so that he is able to beat better LBs or safties in coverage on a consistent basis. If he does that he can be a huge part of the offense that the defense has to account for.

  57. 57 Mitchell said at 9:19 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Hey team:
    How do we feel about Tre Boston from NC? Good size 6’1″ 190 pounds. Can play both corner and safety. Played safety this year and had 5 ints. I guess the knock on him is he is inconsistent. However, with that versatility would you draft a guy like that in the 5th? 4th?

  58. 58 laeagle said at 10:37 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    I’d settle for him being the best second round pick since Sheldon Brown. That bar is pretty low.

  59. 59 bentheimmigrant said at 11:31 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    2nd round picks since Brown is a low bar??? Shady and DJax might have a thing or two to say about that. Plenty of misses, sure, but those two hardly count as a miss.

  60. 60 laeagle said at 11:32 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Damn, I knew I was missing someone. Hey, it’s early here, I haven’t finished my coffee yet. I’m still blinded by Quintin Caver and Jaquan Jarrett.

  61. 61 bentheimmigrant said at 11:37 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Don’t forget Justice and Abiamiri.

  62. 62 laeagle said at 11:39 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Can I forget them? Please? And somewhere in there I’m sure there’s a joke about Shady and DJax being busts in the eyes of Philly fans. C’mon, Shady only made offensive player of the year once. For a second round pick, he should have done it every year in the league, as well as once or twice in college.

  63. 63 Insomniac said at 11:48 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    No? I have seen older fans hate on Djax/Shady because of their attitudes but there was never talk or even jokes about them being busts.

  64. 64 Sb2bowl said at 11:45 PM on January 18th, 2014:

    Justice (I think) had his confidence blown up when Andy REFUSED (and Marty) to give him help that night against the Giants on that Monday night debacle. Giving up 6 sacks, at the professional level, while not receiving the help sorely needed will demolish even the toughest tackle in the NFL.

    Justice actually rebounded nicely from that game, and earned himself a contact extension. At the end of it all, he ended up on the Colts team (is he still there? I know McGlynn was “anchoring” the one guard spot) and presumably is a good dude all around. I still think we should have held on to him the year he departed, but the end of the Andy Reign things had become quite strange.

  65. 65 Davesbeard said at 11:03 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Maybe too early for drat discussion but Armando Salguero was talking about a possible trade with Miami for Dion Jordan.

    Would you guys be happy with a move like that? our #22 pick? Our 2nd rounder + Brandon Graham?

  66. 66 Dominik said at 11:09 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Our first for Jordan should be a no brainer. Elite talent, Chip knows him, position of great need. If someone would tell me we could have a player like Jordan at #22, I’d be very, very happy.

    2nd + Graham would be too nice to be real. Won’t happen, I guess. There will be teams willing to pay more than a 2nd rounder + Graham for Jordan if he’s on the trading block.

    What if the Dolphins want more than our first rounder? That would be interesting. 1st and a 5th? No problem. 1st and 4th? I don’t know. 1st and 3rd? No.

  67. 67 Insomniac said at 11:19 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    A 4th round pick. If they won’t take it then enjoy having your wasted pick on the bench.

  68. 68 Neil said at 1:31 PM on January 16th, 2014:

    Give up our first and Graham. Graham is worth a 3rd at the absolute most, and I think that’s a reach.

  69. 69 Insomniac said at 11:15 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    This isn’t even a fair comparison to start with. It’s like comparing Casey Matthews to Kendricks. Ertz is slow. I mean like Tony Gonzalez in his falcons day slow. He’ll be a safety blanket but that’s it. Low ceiling for a high 2nd round pick.

  70. 70 bentheimmigrant said at 11:27 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    How fast is “not slow”? A 4.75 40 time isn’t great, but it’s not particularly high for a TE.

  71. 71 Insomniac said at 11:36 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    You need to consider how much faster players are today. OL can run 5.1s 40s. Lane ran what? 4.7s? Avant ran a 4.5 when he was drafted. I wouldn’t bet that he’s faster than Ertz as he is now but we’ll see a major dropoff in his speed when he gets older. I would say 4.8s is pretty average for blocking TEs. 4.6s for receiving TEs. Ertz ran in between that.

  72. 72 Sb2bowl said at 11:52 PM on January 18th, 2014:

    But you also have to remember that sometimes players just have a crappy 40 yard dash at the combine. Shady is from my area of Pennsylvania. We also share a love for bowling on the side– anyway, Shady is at the lanes picking up his ball; the combine had just happened, and we asked him about his experience, what is was like, what he would change.

    My buddy asked him about his 40 yard dash time; it had been reported that Shady had been sick, and that’s why it wasn’t where it should have been– anyways, he said straight up– “I was nervous; didn’t run like I could, there’s so much riding on running 40 yards, and I didn’t do well. I can do better, but that was a bad/tough day”.

    Anyway– I bring up this story in relation to Ertz. Maybe 4.7 is the fastest he ever ran, but then again maybe not. However, for a 6’5″ dude, I’ll take a 4.7 as long as he has functional separation speed (which it appears that he does). 4.7 isn’t blistering; but if he’s getting open– that’s all that matters to me. Oh, and he’s like 1/2 a second faster than FOles 🙂

  73. 73 eagleyankfan said at 11:20 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    T-Law makes the winter break go much quicker…great articles….

  74. 74 T_S_O_P said at 11:23 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    Off topic Tommy, but this tweet has to have perked your intrestometer, hasn’t it?

    Armando Salguero @ArmandoSalgueroFollow
    To piggyback on previous Dion Jordan/Gamble tweet, Eagles have No. 22 in 1st rd. Wouldn’t surprise me if they try to trade that for Jordan.

  75. 75 laeagle said at 11:34 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    My question is, why would Miami be so willing to trade a #4 pick so soon? That should raise warning bells like crazy.

  76. 76 Insomniac said at 11:46 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    “Jordan only played nine snaps against the Bucs in Week 10. This week, Dolphins defensive coordinator Kevin Coyle put it bluntly when he said Jordan’s playing time wouldn’t increase any time soon because he’s hopeless against the run.”

    “Jordan p;ayed just 338 defensive snaps this past season, along with contributing on special teams.”

  77. 77 Ark87 said at 11:51 AM on January 16th, 2014:

    It was pretty idiotic to trade up to put him in a 4-3. I’m thinking maybe graham and change. 2 pass rushers in the wrong system. Ours is proven productive. Their’s is very young that still may have a high ceiling.

  78. 78 Iskar36 said at 12:20 PM on January 16th, 2014:

    I understand that people loved Dion Jordan last year and that he was drafted onto a team that has him slightly out of position as a 4-3 DE, but are we so sure that his complete lack of production was due to him being misused rather than him being overrated last year? Is that risk really worth a first round pick? Keep in mind, we are also talking about a guy who TOTALED 14.5 sacks in four years at Oregon.

    To me, I’d be extremely curious about what Jordan could do in our defense as an OLB, but there is no way I would be trading a first round pick for him after the season he had, regardless of whether or not he was misused, and even if we got him cheap, based on his limited production as an elite pass rusher even in college, I would be skeptical of relying on him to be the elite pass rusher our defense needs until he is able to go out and prove it. His skills seem to me that they would be better suited for Barwin’s role right now.

    Also, keep in mind that IF it is true that he is playing out of position and that’s the sole reason for his lack of production, he will continue to produce poorly in Miami and we can get him cheap the following year. I’d rather wait a year and get him without risking a first round pick than have a repeat the Trent Richardson deal.

  79. 79 Neil said at 1:27 PM on January 16th, 2014:

    Yes, very worth it. I was comfortable with him, unsafeness of the pick and all, at 4. His upside is enormous. 6’6 and SPEED. The questions are his rawness and the fact that he was so light. Can he get up to about 255 and remain as explosive? Will he ever become refined in technique? These are risks you could stomach at 4 (in a weak top of class, admittedly) if you knew he was the kind of person who wanted to be great and would do what it takes. At 22, you take it.

  80. 80 Charlie Kelly said at 5:51 PM on January 16th, 2014:

    i wouldnt be surprised if we drafted another stud TE in the 1st round. if ebron or jace amaro are there id book it!! chip loves the TEs. plus both those guys can block and be very dangerous weapons.

  81. 81 austinfan said at 10:47 AM on January 17th, 2014:

    Harbor was a late 4th rd pick who worked at improving his blocking, Ware for one is glad he’s out of the division.
    2013: 24 292 12.2 2
    He’s not a starting caliber TE, but he’s a solid backup.
    Biggest problem was he never developed consistent hands or played up to his tested speed.

    I sure hope the #35 pick is better than a late 4th rd pick, or Howie better look for a new profession.