Unlucky Losers

Posted: April 22nd, 2014 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 119 Comments »

Many of you love numbers. Chase Stuart over at Football Perspective is one of the best people at using numbers to evaluate teams and players in a historical perspective. He just put out an interesting piece called “The Least/Most Lucky Teams When It Comes To Rings“. This one is going to hurt, both ways.

The top row indicates that the Eagles had a 6% chance of no titles since 1950 and a 12% chance of no titles since 1970. Philadelphia has 2.4 expected titles since 1950, 1.93 of which come since 1970. In reality, the Eagles have won 1.4 fewer titles than expected over the last 64 years, and 1.93 fewer than expected since the merger.

Most Unlikely Loser since the Merger: Philadelphia Eagles
Despite leading the league in DVOA or estimated DVOA four times (1980, 1981, 2001, and 2008), and racking up 1.93 hypothetical Super Bowl wins, the Eagles have nothing to show for it. Philadelphia’s lead in this category is large in part because the Vikings’ 1969 season doesn’t qualify. Even if we include the entire Super Bowl era, however, the Eagles have the highest expected number of Lombardi trophies without actually owning any silverware. They have just a 12% chance of being without a Super Bowl title as of 2014.

Ugh. And then…

Most Unlikely Winner since the Merger: New York Giants
This one is kind of amazing. The Giants have just 0.95 expected Super Bowl wins, but have 4 actual ones. When looking at New York’s DVOA ratings and playoff seedings, there was a 35% chance of no rings for Big Blue. The Giants led the league in DVOA just once since the merger (1990) and only one more time (1959) overall. New York is held out of the top spot overall by their five championship game losses between 1950 and 1966. Despite all those losses, the Giants’ recent good fortune makes them #3 in titles above expectation going back to 1950.

This will change someday.


* * * * *

The Eagles had OL coach Jeff Stoutland at Clemson’s Pro Day to work out T/G Brandon Thomas and G Tyler Shatley. Unfortunately, Thomas later tore his ACL while working out on another occasion for the Saints. He was probably going to be a 3rd to 4th round pick. The Eagles could now get Thomas at the bottom of the draft, if interested, and redshirt him for 2014.

Stoutland spent a lot of time covering stunts and blitzes with the players. He wasn’t just checking out movement skills, but rather how they followed instructions and if they were quick learners. A lot of coaches do generic movement drills in the workout sessions, focusing on just athletic ability.

Here is Gil Brandt’s Pro Day bit on the players.

Tyler Shatley, G: Shatley (6-3 1/4, 300 pounds) has 31 3/4-inch arms and is a very strong player, putting up 40 reps in the bench press. He ran the 40 in 5.17 and 5.21 seconds and had a 30 1/2-inch vertical and a 9-foot, 2-inch broad jump. He ran the short shuttle in 4.66 and the 3-cone drill in 7.95 seconds. He’s probably a third-day pick or a priority free agent.

Brandon Thomas, OT: Thomas (6-3 5/8, 318 pounds) impressed a lot of people with a good workout. He had an 8-foot, 3-inch broad jump, a 4.75 short shuttle and a 7.83 3-cone drill. He has very long arms, at 34 1/2 inches. I think he’ll be a third-day draft pick.

* * * * *

Check out CB Phillip Gaines of Rice. This kid had a great workout at the Combine and his Pro Day. From Brandt

Phillip Gaines, CB (6-foot-0 1/8, 191 pounds) — Gaines, who has 31 1/8-inch arms, ran really good at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis (he had the second-fastest 40-yard dash time among cornerbacks at 4.38 seconds). On a windy day in Houston for Rice’s pro day and on a new turf surface, Gaines only ran the 60-yard long shuttle (11.24 seconds). Gaines surprised everybody with his speed and quality of his overall pro-day workout; performing beyond expectations, due to his speed, ability to cover and backpedaling ability. Gaines is everything teams look for in a defensive back, and he will likely be a mid-second- to mid-third-round draft choice.

Put on the game tape and you see a CB that likes to press and has very good athletic ability. Some guys test well, but it doesn’t show up on the field. Gaines does both.

Gaines broke up 18 passes in 2012. He only broke up 9 in 2013, but picked off 4 passes and added 6 TFLs. He is a productive player as well as talented. Really interesting prospect. Not sure if the Eagles are interested, but sure seems they should be.


119 Comments on “Unlucky Losers”

  1. 1 Ark87 said at 8:49 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Let me shine this turd for sanity sake. Hey sure we never won the superbowl, but this proves that this team is historically sooooo much better than the lack of trophies suggests.

    Tell me no one didn’t read the giants factoid and say, HAH, they DO suck (like I always tell Giants’ fans), they’re just lucky.

  2. 2 mtn_green said at 4:54 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Maybe DVOA means nothing it’s how well the team played against the other team on the day of the game.

  3. 3 James Adair said at 12:20 AM on April 23rd, 2014:

    This proves without a shadow of a doubt that those Giant Lombardi trophies were bought… 🙂

  4. 4 Daniel Norman Richwine said at 9:06 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Those who criticized college football’s soon to be obsolete method of choosing a national champion and have pushed it to be just another tournament style method ignore the extremely arbitrary results such a system produces. Sometimes the National Champs have another team who can argue they deserve the title, but you almost never get a team with a season as bad as some of the Superbowl champs have had. The Giants is a good example of that. They didn’t have a great season when they won a few years ago, they had a good enough season followed by 4 great games in a row.

  5. 5 Ark87 said at 10:52 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    It’s not about establishing a supreme order to finding the best team. Too many ways to measure that and too subjective. Best overall season (record, DVOA, what)? Who is capable at playing at the highest level? Who has the top average level of play? Whose the best at the end of the season? Who would win in a head to head match? The difference between the Broncos and the Seahawks isn’t as extreme as the super bowl would suggest. Match-ups matter. Terrible Eagles teams were built to give great Dallas teams trouble for a decade. All are flawed ways to judge “the best”.

    The playoffs are simply the most compelling way to put great football on your television. Get the best teams and make them play each other. It doesn’t play out to often give the “best” team the trophy year in and year out. But wouldn’t that make any sort of post season kind of pointless, if it were designed to simply hand a trophy to the team we already decided was the best?

    TLDR: post season really isn’t about determining the best team.

  6. 6 Daniel Norman Richwine said at 11:43 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Back when I wasted my time defending the college bowl system against those who wouldn’t listen, I had to hear over and over about how a tournament system gives a more real and pure championship. Your point is correct, its more exciting for TV and gamblers, but not better at determining the best team of the season. You cannot remove all despute from the bowl system, but though it didn’t get it entirely right, it very seldom got it entirely wrong. Over the years there were almost no times when the championship went to a team which was just a little bit better than average over the course of the entire year.

  7. 7 Sporran said at 12:45 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    The thing is, even with the best metrics, it is impossible to know which is the best team. At least with a tournament, it is impossible for a team to go undefeated without winning the championship. That was the biggest travesty of the old College Football system — there were some teams that had no way of ever winning a championship, regardless of how well they played on the field.

    The NFL playoffs will allow some good-but-not-great teams to get hot and win a Super Bowl, but there are no teams that can claim to be more deserving when this happens. The “better” teams lost. The “inferior” team didn’t.

  8. 8 barneygoogle said at 9:07 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Here’s a couple of my sleepers:
    Elvis Dumerville Jr., an OLB out of Memphis, here, being weighed at his pro day.
    I also like the New Hampshire QB, Kelly Chipper. He’s a bit short, though.

    Can someone tell me how Jason Peters wound up undrafted? Maybe our best hope is to find a tall, lean DE and re-make him into an OLB like the Bills remade Peters from a TE to LT.

  9. 9 D3Center said at 10:12 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Peters was a 300+lbs TE in college at a small school which is why he went undrafted. How he didn’t get moved to LT in college is beyond me. And as for the kid from Memphis I heard he ain’t nothing but a hounddog.

  10. 10 D3FB said at 7:59 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    The guy who played LT was pretty good. Some kid named Shawn Andrews.

  11. 11 GEAGLE said at 9:29 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Aaaaahhh a good OL fashion kick In the nuts to start my day…love ya Tom 🙂

  12. 12 GEAGLE said at 9:33 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Really? I was hearing Brandon would go in round 2, possibly sneaking into late round 1 to Seattle or Denver,,,,I thought the injury would push him down to round 4/5…..would love Tom to be right and snatch this OT/OG in like the 6th or 7th….but I suspect a team with picks to blow like the Niners will take him earlier and redshirt him

  13. 13 Tom W said at 1:09 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Heard Same. Think he is gone by 4-5th rd

  14. 14 GEAGLE said at 3:50 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Talented kid…..can’t wait til we have the stacked roster in place so we can trade away players, stock up on picks, and take advantage of the top injured talent that falls, and just stick them on IR like the Niners do….still pissed they predictably got Tank Last year….
    Wonder how Jesse Williams will look coming back for the Seahawks..If he wasn’t coming off an injury and no way to know how he looks. I’d be trying to trade BG for him. hawks will always take pass rushers..

  15. 15 oreofestar said at 3:57 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    I’d trade BG for a couple of pretzels right now it seems as though he is not worth anything, Also would love Colvin or Thomas to be Eagles I mean even if they were healthy would they play that much

  16. 16 GEAGLE said at 8:02 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Yup..those are two positions we can afford to draft someone that needs red shirting…I’d be down if they really free fall

  17. 17 GEAGLE said at 9:34 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    DAT talked about what Chip Kelly needs to run his offense in the NFL, on NFL network…..interesting..sounds like he really wants to be an eagle

  18. 18 Anders said at 9:54 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Listening to that, I can see why Kelly would want to bring him with him on an island (yes that was actually his answer to that question).

  19. 19 GEAGLE said at 10:06 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Probably a rare opportunity to get such a late round pick that you can probably play right away being how familiar he is with what we do…he may not be ready for blitz pickup, but get him in space and he can get some!!!

  20. 20 jesse said at 10:21 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    There having your eulogy over on 24 lol

  21. 21 GEAGLE said at 10:29 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Why? Ican post there

  22. 22 oreofestar said at 11:15 AM on April 22nd, 2014:


  23. 23 A Roy said at 12:00 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Was told you were banned. Joke was that their comments were only 73% of what they had been prior.

  24. 24 oreofestar said at 12:06 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    That is what I heard as well that he was banned although I am not actually sure

  25. 25 GEAGLE said at 3:31 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    PhillyMag only blocks you for 3 days

  26. 26 oreofestar said at 3:37 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    so you’re comin’ back?

  27. 27 Scott J said at 9:42 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    So the moral of the story is, we have a better shot at winning the Super Bowl if we stink like the Giants.

  28. 28 Anders said at 9:55 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    We also need a crappy QB who throws lots of interception.

  29. 29 ChaosOnion said at 10:16 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    But not in the 4th quarter. In the 4th quarter he becomes the second coming of Peyton Manning and Tom Brady’s love child.

  30. 30 ACViking said at 10:52 AM on April 22nd, 2014:


    You wrote:

    “Chase Stuart over at Football Perspective is one of the best people at
    using numbers to evaluate teams and players in a historical perspective.
    He just put out an interesting piece called “The Least/Most Lucky Teams When It Comes To Rings“.”

    Actually, guest-poster Andrew Healy, Ph.D. authored the post.

    Healy’s an economics professor at Loyola Marymount University in California (former home of Big-5 basketball great, coach Paul Westhead and Philly HS phenoms Bo Kimble and the late Hank Gathers)

    Hearly also penned an earlier post using a less complicated formula.

    Stuart, I think a bit ambiguously, introduces the topic.

    Just an FYI . . . to protect you from any “false light” allegations.

  31. 31 McNabbulousness said at 10:54 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    finally data that confirms what i’ve been seeing ever since the tyree helmet catch and every single one of eli’s off his back foot “50/50 ball” pass completions

  32. 32 shah8 said at 11:48 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    I just try to enjoy good football. And the Eagles are typically better run than the Falcons were.

  33. 33 GEAGLE said at 11:51 AM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Terrell Davis says if he could buy stock in a young player it would be Nick “the rainmaker” FOles…who was sent by the gods to end the mass genocide of worms…..ok I may have paraphrased a bit, but you still feel me flow!

  34. 34 Anders said at 11:55 AM on April 22nd, 2014:


  35. 35 Ark87 said at 12:03 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Very informative. He didn’t get into discerning between add muscle mass vs adding strength. Sometimes adding functional weight can help as well. Even that he describes there not being much time for that. This helps illustrate the desperation a player can face and be tempted by PED’s.

  36. 36 Anders said at 12:21 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    I think they main part is how one cant add muscle strength outside of maybe growing up (see Fletcher Cox been 21 at draft, most men grow to they are 25), but they main way to add strength is trough better technique.

  37. 37 Ark87 said at 1:45 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    An interesting case is Brandon Graham, Who added a ton of strength because of not being able to crack the starting line-up and extensive time rehabbing. It’s funny how that changed his career. Speed moves? not anymore! Time to get swole and Bull rush for the rest of my career!

  38. 38 ACViking said at 12:26 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Great story.

    If the Eagles do one other bit of intelligence gathering regarding linemen, I’d love for them to look for players who wrestled competitively in high school (or college) — and the Birds very well may. [Steve Neal, former Eagles short-time PCer, wrestled in college and ended up with a pretty good career as a OG for the Patriots.]

    Those guys really get the value of leverage and technique.

    And, in my experience, wrestlers are some of the very toughest competitors. It’s just you and the other guy on a mat. Eyeball to eyeball. No equipment but plastic ear-covers (headgear) . . . and a jock strap.

  39. 39 Tom W said at 1:18 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    That author couldn’t be more wrong. He utlilizes himself and unnamed specific examples to generalize an entire leauge. Really non-scientific and untrue. Have the rookies are still growing and adding muscle and weight. Another portion did not really lift propertly or follow correct nutrition in college to grow.
    And if you don’t think someone like add strength while in the nfl that is just nuts. I understand his in-season argument (although we now know alot guys actually lifted more and kept weight and strength in 2013 under Kelly’s and Hul’s program vs Fat Andy’s old school methods) but in the off-season there are an abundance of players who add 8-15lbs of muscle and strength. Really is no correlation to advancing age and added strength. Most bodybuilders and strongmen don’t reach their prime until 27-32 yrs old.

  40. 40 Anders said at 1:25 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    @RossTuckerNFL Howard Mudd told me he never saw a OL's functional strength change from college -> NFL. WT room doesn't change play strength— John Middlekauff (@JohnMiddlekauff)

    So Howard Mudd is also full of crap?

    Maybe Kelly’s sport science program and the short off season program might help some players add strength, but as he said, what if you have hurt your shoulder? wrist?

  41. 41 D3FB said at 2:00 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    I think maybe some of Kelly’s emphasis on physiology and bio mechanics may help slightly increase functional strength by allowing the players to use their existing strength more efficently.

  42. 42 mksp said at 3:49 PM on April 22nd, 2014:


    Also, look into Muscle Activation Therapy – Peyton Manning has basically said its prolonged his career.

  43. 43 Tom W said at 2:11 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    His article offers little support for his conclusion other than his own example and some players w offseason injuries. To generalize an entire league and say no players get more functionally stronger from rookie yr to later in their career isn’t the best way to support an argument. How about the other 85 percent of players who don’t have a wrist or shoulder injury.

    May have been that way ten years ago, but it is by no means anymore. The teams spend millions on offseason training programs for each position and individualized players so they can get can get functionally stronger and in better shape physically and recover quicker and more flexible. They wouldn’t do it if there weren’t added benefits like increased functional strength. that is the core of weight training … increased strength and nfl teams have now transferred that over to functionality on the field and sports science has added in recovery and optimum performance training.

    And there is an entire side of athletic weightlifting focused on functional strength (I know Va Tech, Stanford, and Nebraska follow it) that specifcially target exercises for functional improvement on the field. Adam Archuletta was a perfect example. New York Times did a nice article about it. changing up the exercise regimen to simulate exercises that transfer over to increased strength and functionality on the field. Like getting dropped from a five foot platform to the floor to simulate a collision or the added weight to a plank board to increase core strength, or utilizing chains over barbells for increased arm strength or just tweeking the hand position and form of a bench press to simulate striking an opposing player in the chest. or resistance training w pushups and pullups w vests.

    Justin Smith and niners front seven is a perfect example They came into the league a certain way. And almost all of them to a man have gained strength and weight that transfers over to the field. Sean Peyton transformed the saints entire weightlifting philosophy after visiting niners when he was suspended and seeing justin smith and bowman squatting 600-700llbs in season before practice.

    Trent Cole is another great example. Came into the league as a undersized d end and now he is one of the strongest players in the league and terrific at setting the edge. Someone like a dee ford has a very weak lower half. Will take him a couple years to add weight and muscle to his lower half to set the edge.
    Same philosphy is followed by Hulls and has commented on by Celek and Demeco and Peters.

    So to be fair, the author had a much better argument in the old nfl. But over the last decade its really been changing and now players are trained all season long in a way that help them transfer increased weightroom training into increased functional strength on the field.

  44. 44 Anders said at 3:21 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Or maybe it is the other way around? Majority of player do not gain anything (legally), but a few player do and they become pro bowl players?

    Also Cole added weight, but a big part of of Cole strength is his technique, remember 250 pound Cole is still going up against 300+ OTs.

  45. 45 Ark87 said at 1:42 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    at the very least the take away should be that it is not a given at all. It’s really challenging to get stronger, where I think the assumption of many fans is: oh look they are professionals now, No more school to get in the way, just lifting and getting swole. The article definitely sheds light on the limitations of diminishing returns and the human body.

    Most just get better at making their strength translate to power on the football field with better technique.

  46. 46 D3FB said at 2:11 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    The difference between bodybuilders and strongmen is they lift all out 12 months a year. Football players really only lift all out for maybe five months a year. Like the author says, you try to keep as much strength as you can in season, but most players will lose 20-25% of their weight room strength. It’s inevitable, because the player’s body is trying to recover every day from the grind of practices and games, lifting all out isn’t conducive to the body as it doesn’t have enough time to recover. Then the season ends and most guys, and good S&C coaches will tell you this need to take between 2 and 6 weeks to let their bodies heal up from the pounding of the season. Take the time to let the tendonitis in your elbow go away, and that rolled ankle to recover before you go out and start lifting balls to the wall again. You finally get your strength back in April and make some small gains in strength, then it’s time to start focusing on dynamic movements, speed and conditioning, and technique work.
    For competitive strength athletes they don’t work on a schedule like this.

  47. 47 Tom W said at 3:04 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Its different nowadays. Old nfl yes it was more so the way you describe. but some colleges and nfl teams have been getting away from that style of training for the last decade.

  48. 48 Anders said at 3:23 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    yea, people who havent played college and above football has no clue how physical hard a season is and how little time for adding weight a player really has.

    I also take the word of a former NFL veteran and OL coach over a random person on the internet.

  49. 49 Sporran said at 12:35 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    A word of caution regarding the “Unlucky losers” article — it relies heavily on DVOA. One statistic is not the be-all and end-all of team quality — and I’m sure the people at Football Outsiders would be the first to agree with that. It is entirely possible that the (black-box) method used to calculate DVOA just happens to overrate Andy Reid’s style of play.

  50. 50 Ray888 said at 12:37 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    The portion of this post on “unlucky losers” is definitive confirmation that the extra 2 weeks before the draft was a MISTAKE! Too much time on everyone’s hands; too much space to fill.

  51. 51 oreofestar said at 1:11 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    It is annoying the draft should be in 2 days…

  52. 52 WEUer said at 12:41 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Damn, let’s draft Phillip Gaines and make some defensive gainzzz.

  53. 53 Mitchell said at 9:18 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    All kindz?

  54. 54 WEUer said at 9:41 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    All _kindz_ of gains.

  55. 55 oreofestar said at 1:10 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Heard this crazy idea about the Rams trading the 13th pick and Sam Bradford for the 1st overall pick lol Houstan would be stupid to do it but lol wouldn’t that be something

  56. 56 Joe Minx said at 1:21 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    We have 1.93 hypothetical Lombradis. YES!

  57. 57 SteveH said at 3:55 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Someone go tell the Giants we have way more hypothetical super bowl victories than they do.

  58. 58 GEAGLE said at 3:56 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Awesome…I have something to brag about to Giants fans if I go to the draft…lol

  59. 59 SteveH said at 9:43 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Make sure to bring 1.93 fake lombardis with you. Maybe make them out of tin foil.

  60. 60 GEAGLE said at 9:01 AM on April 23rd, 2014:

    lol I need something….I can’t even throw Deseans punt return in their face anymore

  61. 61 Cedric Basedprophet Bost said at 1:32 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    All of the guys from my mock are getting all types of buzz Deone bucannon , phillip gaines and martavis bryant . So my new mock is get them a round early . Bucannon in the first Gaines n the second Bryant n the third the Tennessee n’t in the 4th and wait for training camp n give the dolphins next year’s first or second for dion jordan.

  62. 62 Tom W said at 2:55 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Finished up a rough 2014 eagles-specific draft board … everyone will
    have differing opinions on player grades so that I don’t really care
    about. Couple tweeks to go. Tried to exclude players who don’t fit
    Chip’s size/speed/length for certain positions based on last two years
    of intel and time at oregon recruiting. eg. an undersized dtackle,
    midget olb, fat unathletic ol, etc. included most players we
    interviewed or worked out or visited that match. stayed away from most
    small school prospects unless news said otherwise.

  63. 63 ACViking said at 3:33 PM on April 22nd, 2014:


    Nice piece of work. 152 players. Very focused.

    QUESTION (for TW and all readers) . . .

    Who’re the 3 most likely “Sliders” and “Eagles Sleepers” on this board?

    For “sliders,” the 3 players whom you most anticipate (i) sliding in the May draft, and (ii) being most attractive to the Eagles after dropping?

    A “slide” is relative, obviously. For example, in 1995, Warren Sapp was the 12th pick in Rd 1. And he was described as “sliding” as the draft progressed. (As T-Law no doubt remembers, when Buddy Ryan was able to snag Jerome Brown at No. 9 overall in 1987, he was thought to have “slid” some.)

    Aaron Rodgers and Brady Quinn are more dramatic 1st-Rd examples. And D-Jax, it’s been written, dropped out of Rd 1 entirely because of off-field issues.

    My use of the word “sliding” means, for context, a projected mid- to late-1st Rd guy falls 25+ spots. Or a mid-2nd may falls 35+ spots. Arbitrary numbers. DO NOT FEEL BOUND.

    In answering, I’d welcome any theories on why you think a player will slide. And how far they’ll drop.

    SLEEPERS — self-explanatory.

  64. 64 GEAGLE said at 3:46 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    I expect us to draft Deandre Coleman in the late rounds, tho I can’t call him a slider because he projects as a late round pick

  65. 65 oreofestar said at 3:48 PM on April 22nd, 2014:


  66. 66 mksp said at 3:59 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Anthony Barr may slide because he’s so raw.

    Kelvin Benjamin will slide because he’s not a good football player.

    Darqueze Dennard may slide because his style of play, lack of speed and less than ideal size.

    I think Christian Jones is a sleeper. If we can snag him in the 3rd I’d be thrilled.

  67. 67 oreofestar said at 4:01 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Jones in the 3rd would be awesome

  68. 68 GEAGLE said at 8:29 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Curious to see how Telvin,Jones and Kirksey come off the board….like I can’t even try to guess where guys like them go, but with how 3rd down LBs Are starting to become so important, it’s going to be very interesting to see where those guys get drafted,,,no idea which one gets drafted first

  69. 69 Tom W said at 4:30 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Being its the deepest position, I think wrs are going to drop farther then they would normally bc of supply and demand and there could be some nice value in the mid to late rounds. And w the league’s emphasis on height, could be a very good fast small wr like ellington or herron OR a refined shorter pass catcher like landry or huff drops a round too much.

    Other option is a good young player who came out a year too early from a bigtime program ..like a trai turner or ego ferguson from lsu or bashad breeland from Clemson…or terence mitchell from oregon or seastrunk from baylor or ellington from SoCar. …. we know they have the talent but may have seen the young studs coming behind them and left school early. Originally I thought Martavius Bryant came out too early, but still sounds like he will go in the first three rds.

    Lastly, since they are being undervalued now, rbs will fall in this draft, and someone who is talented but came out early, like a Charles Sims from WVA, or Seastrunk from Baylor or jimmy wilder jr from fsu could fall farther then expected

  70. 70 GEAGLE said at 8:13 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Pissed the browns plucked Poyer…hope Mitchell falls to 6 or 7 instead of going in the 5th…

    I’m assuming Oregons safety, the Avery kid goes Undrafted and signs with us???I would love Biseko Lokombo,going Undrafted…

  71. 71 anon said at 12:30 AM on April 23rd, 2014:

    Are you pissed? Poyer was terrible. Players from Pac 12 make me nervous. Feel like there’s lots of undersize guys on the west coast.

  72. 72 Anders said at 4:38 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Barr is the obvious but I do not really think he falls that much.

    I think Taylor Hart might slide because of his foot similar to Boykin

    I could actually see Watkins slide because he isn’t a crazy talent and do not have size like Evans

  73. 73 GEAGLE said at 8:10 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Hart could really fall…if he falls to say to round 7, would you draft him, or roll the dice and pray he goes Undrafted since you know you can get him to join us as a UDFA?

    I group him with Urban and Mauro…as those long backups for Thornton…Urban going somewhere in the 4th, and I think Mauro dictates how much Hart falls…Hart IMO is the better prospect, but I think the Brit comes off the board first

  74. 74 Anders said at 4:29 AM on April 23rd, 2014:

    Hart might drop from around the 3rd to the 5th but I doubt he goes undrafted

  75. 75 GEAGLE said at 3:46 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Well done mate…very nice work

  76. 76 D3FB said at 7:09 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    You not a Ka’deem fan?

  77. 77 GEAGLE said at 4:01 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Find it odd that we haven’t brought Allen Robinson in for a visit with all these other WRs we are bringing in,…if they don’t bring him in before the draft, I will find it very fishy that such a young talent with one of the best combinations of size/speed In this draft who is one of the better prospects at beating man coverage in spite of his young age, one of the best WRs to come down with jump balls, and a capable blocker who has experience playing in the cold weather elements of PA, in for a visit….if they don’t bring him in, I’m going with him as the Eagles top WR target….sure Evans is nice, but A-Rob is someone we know we can get, if we want him..

  78. 78 oreofestar said at 4:06 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Chip went to his pro day, and after that he probably may not feel it is needed to bring him in if he is guy you really like I can see him being in play for a trade back

  79. 79 GEAGLE said at 4:12 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Yeah I knew we saw him, I’m sure we talked to him at some point(at least I assume)…but with all the WR we bringing in for visits, if we don’t bring him in, I’m going with him as our target

  80. 80 oreofestar said at 4:21 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    lol….makes sense

  81. 81 Mitchell said at 4:08 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    I didn’t watch Robinson till the other day and I was blown away. I would love to have him!

  82. 82 GEAGLE said at 4:11 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Kid will be 21yr old rookie….I just view his ceiling as a bigger, faster, Anquan BOldin….way more fluid than you would expect out of a young kid his size

  83. 83 Mitchell said at 4:59 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Wow only 21. He has good RAC, decent jump ball skills, good in the screen game. His blocking is the one are that is lacking but is easily coached. I commented on a previous thread that if he plays at 220 he is faster than a 4.6 on tape (plus he is so young, there is no reason he can’t get faster). Very fluid athlete. I like him or OBJ, of course, it would be great to trade down in the first and still get Robinson while OBJ was taken earlier. OR OBJ is sitting at 22 and team are clamoring to get him and we trade back to the highest bidder while picking up Robinson.

  84. 84 GEAGLE said at 7:59 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Totally agree…yeah I think right now he is still 20, but will be 21 during the season…crazy for how fluid and well versed he is in the route tree….if a WRs weakness is going to be blocking, I’m sure our coaches can teach him what to do with those 220lbs….let’s be honest,he is 3 years younger, 3 inches shorter and is already a better jump ball WR than KB…..like to watch him, coop and Ertz smashing fools with shady and Sproles motioning all over the place

  85. 85 Anders said at 4:33 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Also he might have visited already as he is a local kid (I would assume that) and we didn’t hear about Kevin Norwood before he wrote a blog post about it

  86. 86 GEAGLE said at 7:56 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Good point

  87. 87 Mitchell said at 5:02 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Can’t wait for the draft so we can all get on together and talk about the picks (girl moment).

  88. 88 Ark87 said at 5:49 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Yeah I used to get very into all the mock drafts, study up the prospects….which only served to give me a strong opinion to get upset over on draft day. “ERMERGERD my mancrush is STILL ON THE BOARD and yall picked *RANDOM DRAFT PICK* FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.”

    Figure it’s healthier to just wait and see what we get, then study in depth. But that does make these extra weeks until the draft suck extra hard.

  89. 89 Mitchell said at 6:06 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    That makes sense. I always joke to my friends how I study up on picks even thought it makes literally no difference at all lol.

  90. 90 SteveH said at 9:42 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    The key thing is to instantly have an opinion about every pick. The whole draft weekend is really about 2 things: finding out who your team gets and playing armchair general manager. “THEY PICKED WHO?!?! WHAT IDIOTS!”

  91. 91 oreofestar said at 5:47 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Off topic but anyone know where I can find some recordings of some old drafts to watch like 1999 or 2011

  92. 92 GEAGLE said at 8:06 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Hmmm that’s a tough one…might even be hard to find torrents. Bet you cN find torrents of the last few years but prob not all the way back to 99…

  93. 93 Maggie said at 12:21 AM on April 23rd, 2014:

    nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft Goes waaay back

  94. 94 mksp said at 7:13 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Cody Latimer invited to the NFL Draft. So much for snagging him with our 2nd round pick. This run on WRs is going to be insane.

  95. 95 D3FB said at 8:01 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    They have 30 guys in the green room, not all of them are going to be gone in the first 40 picks.

  96. 96 mksp said at 9:18 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    First #53 though?

    Jordan Matthews is in there as well, strangely enough. I admire his balls considering good chance he’s last guy in there.

  97. 97 oreofestar said at 9:21 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Well think about it some of these guys have wanted to do this for forever even if they know they will wait a couple hours or even a day it is an experience thing I mean Darius Slay could not have thought he was gonna be a top 20 pick or anthing in fact when he went like 37th or something I thought he’s be there longer

  98. 98 D3FB said at 1:09 AM on April 23rd, 2014:

    Only 23 guys attended last year. Margus Hunt declined his and ended up going 53. Darius Slay, Geno Smith, and Menelik Watson also went on day 3. Eddie Lacy went 61.

    I mean: Barr, Dennard, Donald, Martin, Ford, Nix, Sua-Filo, Carr, Amaro, and Ward aren’t going to be there.

  99. 99 oreofestar said at 9:19 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    who cares who was invited honestly to be honest I love the kid but I love so many kids that unless they take Benjamin or Bryant I can not get to angry

  100. 100 anon said at 12:21 AM on April 23rd, 2014:

    Remember when Geno Smith was invited??

  101. 101 Maggie said at 7:40 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Was just browsing around the WWW and came across this quote, on nfl.com/ CFB;Path to the Draft 24/7. Part of the piece reads:
    “(Jim)Mora, who spent over three decades in the NFL as a coach, didn’t have to think long when asked whom Barr reminds him of, and he brought up a few comparisons that don’t often come to mind when looking at outside linebackers.

    “John Abraham a little bit,” Mora said. “They’re the same size, but John is a little bit heavier. Both very fluid, good hands, explosive. I think he’s got a little DeMarcus Ware in him. I even went back to Pat Swilling from the old days. He’s a smaller guy, but he’s got a little Chris Doleman in him.”

    The Abraham comparison is intriguing because Mora knows all about him from his days in Atlanta. Barr is about 20 pounds lighter than Abraham, but Mora has already told a few coaches that Barr has the frame to bulk up and fill a similar role at the next level.”
    There’s more on the site, if anybody cares to look.

  102. 102 mksp said at 9:21 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Nice find.

  103. 103 GEAGLE said at 8:24 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Sounds like we missed the boat to trade for Shea McClellin…reportedly kids been on a mission t convert to LB, showing up at 252lbs with his 40 time dropping from 4.74 to 4.50(hard to believe but whatever)..body fat from 18% down to 10% after working on his drops all winter….someone tweet this to B dot Grizzle!!
    We already missed the boat trading for Jabal Sheard, new HC love him

  104. 104 oreofestar said at 9:17 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Graham for Shea straight up lol would they ever do that

  105. 105 GEAGLE said at 9:00 AM on April 23rd, 2014:


  106. 106 SteveH said at 9:40 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Relax dude, lets see if it actually translates into anything on the field. There’s more to a pass rusher than his 40 time.

  107. 107 oreofestar said at 9:42 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Actually I have had a bit of an eye on him I think he can do a pretty good job there,but honestly I do not se him as our menace of the edge for 10 years and that is what we are looking for but he would be a great rotational piece

  108. 108 GEAGLE said at 8:59 AM on April 23rd, 2014:

    Why do I need to relax? Why do you find a simple comment to need relaxing? Weirdo

  109. 109 CrackSammich said at 10:31 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Nobody understands your nicknames for players.

  110. 110 oreofestar said at 9:45 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Yeah I am really thinking Lattimer is becoming an Eagle

  111. 111 Mitchell said at 9:50 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    And by Lattimer you mean Robinson? GEAGLE has my back.

  112. 112 oreofestar said at 9:51 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    I actually love Robinson as a guy if we trade back to the top of 2nd and take him there cuz he won’t get to 54 but I just have this feeling with Lattimer that we will take him, maybe even earlier than we are supposed to

  113. 113 Mitchell said at 9:52 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    I have to watch tape on Lattimer still.

  114. 114 oreofestar said at 9:55 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    yeah between him completely blowing the Eagles on twitter after their visit and the mocks with him being a first round pick and him being a gym rat and then getting invited to the draft make me think he can be an Eagle and horribly I was thinking about 22 for a minute uuuugh…

  115. 115 Mitchell said at 10:14 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Came away unimpressed. There are better options at 22 no matter how the picks before fall. ODJ, Robinson, and Lee are all better than Latimer. I dn’t think we will take him, imo.

  116. 116 oreofestar said at 10:15 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    I like Lattimer I have him in my top 10 wr targets for us I love him at 54 but it seems he is gone by then now but 22 is a no no for me

  117. 117 SteveH said at 9:49 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    Saw Colt Anderson signed with the Colts. Kind of bummed, loved him as our ST’s ace.

  118. 118 oreofestar said at 9:50 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    I mean we got Maragos who is basically Colt except he might see 50-75 snaps

  119. 119 ICDogg said at 10:56 PM on April 22nd, 2014:

    I highly recommend this article, on the 1984 supplemental draft (in which we ended up with Reggie White). http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/72821380/in-1984-three-hours-and-one-draft-changed-nfl-history